Up First from NPR - Hamas Leader Killed, 'Double-Hater' Voters, President Biden Visits Berlin

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas who is believed to be the architect of the Oct 7th attack on Israel has been killed. What a group of voters who disliked both former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden are thinking now that Vice President Harris is in the race. And President Biden is in Berlin today to meet with European leaders for the last time as President. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Hannah Bloch, Kelsey Snell, Nick Spicer, Lisa Thomson and Alice Woelfe. It was produced by Paige Waterhouse, Nia Dumas and Kaity Kline. Our Executive Producer is Erika Aguilar. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott. And our technical director is Andie Huether.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The leader of Hamas, who is believed to be the architect of the October 7th attack on Israel, has been killed. Does the death of Yahya Sinwar create an opening for the war in Gaza to end? I'm Leila Fadl, that's Amy Martinez, and this is Up First from NPR News. With a new Democrat on the ballot, we check in with voters who once told us they disapproved of both President Biden and former President Trump. I am really 50-50 right now. More on how their views of the race have changed since Vice President Harris became

the Democratic candidate. And President Biden is in Berlin today to meet with European leaders for the last time as president. Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day. Wait, wait, don't tell me. Fresh air up first. NPR News Now, Planet Money, TED Radio Hour, ThruLine, the NPR Politics Podcast, Code Switch, Embedded, Books We Love,card, are just some of the podcasts you can enjoy sponsor free with NPR+. Get all sorts of perks across more than 20 podcasts

with the bundle option. Learn more at plus.npr.org. Hey, it's Susan Davis. Yes, there is more than one election happening this year. There are 34 Senate seats up for grabs. And in in the House Republicans are clinging to a single digit majority. Those races will determine what the next president can do with his or her power. We're covering it all this year but we can't do it without your support. So help us out and sign up for NPR+. Go to plus dot NPR dot org. Anxious? This October, Shortwave is helping wrangle that fear.

And the trick may have to do with horror movies. I feel more alive when I am in situations like this. Learn the surprising science to conquering fear when you subscribe now to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR. Israel's military spokesman, Daniel Hagari, delivered this news to Israelis and the world late last night. Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas terrorist organization, who was responsible for the October 7th massacre, is dead.

Yahya Sinwar was the head of the Palestinian group Hamas and was Israel's number one most wanted man in Gaza. He's considered the mastermind of the attack last year that killed 1200 people in Israel, according to the Israeli government, and sparked a response from Israel that's killed more than 42,000 Palestinians in Gaza, according to Gaza health officials. The military says Sinwar was killed in Rafah in the south. We're joined now by Hadil Al-Shalchi in Tel Aviv. So we just heard from Israel's military spokesman, how did they wind up killing Sinwar? So the Israeli military has been after Sinwar for exactly a year since the attacks of October 7th, but then he ended up being

killed by chance. The military said on Wednesday forces fired shells at a building they'd seen three Hamas militants run into. The building collapsed and that's when troops said they found the body later identified as Sinwar's lying there in the rubble with a bulletproof vest, grenades and surrounded with just over $10,000 in cash. You know, this is the latest high profile killing of a Hamas leader after two other key leaders were killed over the summer. And of course it brings up that important question, who will now take over Hamas? His right-hand man so far has been his brother, Mohammed Sinwar, who's involved in the military side of things, but there are also others, you know, who have been active outside of

Gaza representing Hamas and Qatar and Turkey for years, like Khalid Mishal or Hamas's deputy chairman Khalil al-Hayyeh. And then Hamas confirmed Sinwar's killing on Friday, sounding defiant in a statement saying that Israel killing its leaders doesn't mean the end of the Hamas movement, and the group also called his death, quote, painful and distressing, but that Sinwar is now an icon for the Palestinian people. Okay. Now, mention that you're in Tel Aviv, but what's the reaction there been like?

Right, so on the streets here in Tel Aviv, I heard some celebration. There was clapping, cheering, music blasting, and then the families of the hostages held in Gaza said they hoped that this would finally open the door to releasing their loved ones. And then Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, spoke last night saying that his ultimate obligation was to bring back the remaining hostages. There's about a hundred and one people left, dozens who are still believed to be alive. And then Netanyahu spoke to the people of Gaza. While this is not the end of the war in Gaza, it's the beginning of the end. This war can end tomorrow if Hamas lays down its arms and returns our hostages.

But in Gaza itself, the tone was mixed. We heard from Palestinians there who called Sinwar a martyr and mourned him. And then others expressed relief he was gone and had their own message for Netanyahu. Okay, now that you've killed Sinwar, end the war and let us go back to our homes. Yeah, right. I mean, that's the big question, right? I mean, will this now end the war in Gaza? Do we know anything about that? Right, exactly. So actually, that was the main question, right? I mean, will this now end the war in Gaza? Any, do we know anything about that? Right, exactly. So actually that was the main message

of President Biden last night. He said, quote, now is the time to move on. Basically, it's time to breathe new life back into the ceasefire talks, which have been stalled for weeks. So a former Israeli military intelligence officer told me yesterday, there could be some optimism here. Michael Milstein said Israel and the US have long argued that Sinwar has been the main obstacle in reaching a deal but some Hamas leaders based outside of Gaza have always been a

little bit more willing to give and take. As for Netanyahu, he's been at the mercy of his right-wing partners who threatened they'll topple his government if Israeli troops withdraw from Gaza. So some Palestinian analysts are saying reaching a deal is in Netanyahu's hands. What does he want and what does Israel want? NPR's a deal, Al-Shalchi in Tel Aviv. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

["Double Hater"] Back in May, NPR put together a pair of focus groups with so-called double haters, voters that disapproved of both former President Donald Trump and President Biden. Now, a lot has changed since then. The race is now between Vice President Harris and Trump, and it's closer than ever. So we want to understand how those voters might make up their minds. NPR went back to these very same people this week to find out which way they're leaning. NPR correspondent Marla Iasson joins me now. Hi Marla.

Hi there. So much has changed since May. Are there still people who consider themselves double haters now that they have an entirely different Democrat in the race? Yes, there are still a few double haters left. There are some true undecided voters. It's a tiny little sliver in the battleground states. It's estimated that only about 6% of people are truly undecided between the candidates

or between going out and voting or staying home. And we put these focus groups together with the help of Rich Tao, of EngageUS and SAGO Market Research. And these voters were all Trump to Biden swing voters. Most of them live in swing states. All 12 at the start were self-identified double haters.

And it's important to remember that these focus groups are not scientific. They give us what we call anic data. Polling gives us a sense of how many voters feel a certain way. Focus groups help us figure out why they feel a certain way. So of the 10 springtime double haters by October, four are locked in or leaning Trump, five are locked in or leaning Harris, and one was still certain he wouldn't vote for either one and instead will write in a candidate.

So how did Harris becoming the nominee change the way these voters see the race? Well, the people who are voting for her compared with how they felt about Biden, they are generally much more positive, much more excited. None of the nine voters said that they would hold her accountable for any of Biden's missteps, so she clearly has been able to separate herself from Biden. But it's also true that the movement toward Harris seems to be more of an anti-Trump sentiment than a pro-Harris sentiment. Trump is much more clearly defined and in a negative way.

She's a bit of a blank slate. And I thought it was particularly interesting to hear their responses when Rich asked them to say how they feel when they see Harris on TV. What's their emotion? Doubtful. Dumbfounded. She doesn't make any sense. Hopeful.

Also hopeful, but louder than Sherrilyn. And here they are when he asked the same question about Trump. Nervous. Apoplectic. Hopeful. Discouraged. We also heard them respond to how they'd feel if each candidate won. And it was clear that voters are less afraid of her.

In other words, win or lose, they don't think Harris will undermine the election in any way. There's much more fear around Trump and political violence because he has repeatedly refused to say he would accept the results of any election that he didn't win. Now, all 12 of these voters were Biden voters in 2020, and at least four of them seem likely to go back to voting for Trump.

So how big of a red flag is that for the Harris campaign? I think it's a very big red flag. Again, this is an anic data, but it's an example of how she hasn't been able to close the sale. She still isn't doing as well as Biden did back in 2020 at the same point in the race with key democratic groups like African-Americans, Hispanics, and young people.

And Piers Marlais, and thank you so much. Thank you. President Biden is in Berlin today to meet with European leaders for the last time while in office. It's a farewell trip of sorts to a region that has been front and center in his presidency since Russia's full- scale invasion of Ukraine. And it comes as the U.S. is poised to elect a new president while the outcome of the war in Ukraine remains uncertain. MPR's Berlin correspondent Rob Schmitz joins us now to talk about Biden's trip.

So President Biden is going to be joined by leaders from France, Britain and Germany. What's the significance, Rob? Biden's gonna be joined by leaders from France, Britain and Germany. What's the significance, Rob? Yeah, America's relationship with Europe is stronger than ever, A. And that's largely due to the work that President Biden has done these past four years.

After Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, President Biden was a guiding force in showing support for Ukraine, for democracy in Europe. And he reinvigorated a transatlantic spirit that had been left languishing for years before he took office. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said this and more about Biden's trip earlier this week in an address to the German parliament. And A, he told parliament he's grateful for Biden's cooperation over the years and that Biden quote, stands for an incredible improvement in that cooperation between Europe and the

US. And that was a not so subtle jab at former President Trump, who was a constant critic of Germany, especially in the EU as well over trade and regional security issues. So speaking of Trump, he's running for office again. So what do European leaders like Schultz think about the possibility of a second Trump presidency? Yeah, I'd venture to say here that for leaders in this part of Europe, they're very worried about this. In a recent survey by the German think tank,

Kürbisch-Difftung, 80% of Germans polled, say another Trump presidency would damage transatlantic relations. Trump has cast doubts on continued American support for Ukraine. He's even refused to say whether he wants Ukraine to even win against Russia. Should he become president, Europe would be forced to try and fill a gap in US support for Ukraine. And simply put, they would not be able to fill that gap. In that scenario, Germany in particular would be hard pressed to bolster its own security. It's in the process of trying to modernize its military and it's doing that very slowly.

The last time Trump held office, the former president mused about the US leaving NATO. He ordered the Pentagon to withdraw 12,000 American troops from Germany. Biden later reversed that decision. But should Trump win, German politicians I I think, would be concerned about their country's own security and they'd likely be forced to pick up the pace on rebuilding the country's military. And that would cost hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars, at a time when Germany's economy is struggling.

So what would that mean then for Germany's role in Europe? Yeah, I mean, most acutely it would mean that there would be even more pressure for Chancellor Olaf Scholz to leave office. He and his coalition government have historically poor public support at the moment and with a national election coming next year in Germany, we're looking at a likely change in leadership here in Germany anyway. A Trump presidency could also help further fuel the rising

popularity of far-right parties, not only in Germany but throughout Europe. So it could have broad political implications throughout the continent. And one more thing really quick, Rob, have they considered what a Harris presidency might mean? Would it be a continuation of what Biden has done with them? Yeah, they definitely, I think European leaders in this part of Europe definitely see Harris as a definite continuation of Biden's policies and more importantly, and most importantly, continued support for Ukraine in its defense against Russia.

All right. That's NPR's Berlin correspondent, Rob Schmitz. Rob, thanks. Thank you. And that's a first for Friday, October 18th. I'm Ami Martinez. And I'm Laila Faldon here to remind you that Up First airs on the weekend too. Aisha Roscoe and Scott Simon have the news.

It'll be here in this feed or wherever you get your podcasts. And today's episode of Up First was edited by Hannah Block, Kelsey Snell, Nick Spicer, Lisa Thompson, and Alice Wolfley was produced by Paige Waterhouse, Nia Dumas, and Katie Klein. Our executive producer is Erika Aguilar. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott. Our technical director is Andy Huther. Join us again tomorrow. Once again, we find ourselves in an unprecedented election.

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