Up First from NPR - House Votes On Epstein Files, MAGA Coalition Cracks, Saudi Leader Visits White House

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

The House votes today on whether to force the release of long-awaited Epstein files, a move pushed by a bipartisan coalition despite President Trump’s earlier efforts to stop it. A widening feud between Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene exposes growing cracks inside the MAGA movement over foreign policy and the “America First” agenda. And President Trump welcomes Saudi Arabia’s crown prince to the White House as both sides seek deeper security and economic ties.Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today’s episode of Up First was edited by Kelsey Snell, Megan Pratz, Rebecca Rossman, Mohamad ElBardicy, and Alice Woelfle.It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas.We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott. And our technical director is Carleigh Strange.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The House votes on releasing the Epstein files today. People on hand include women who accuse Jeffrey Epstein of abusing them as minors. This idea that, no, there's nothing more to see here, we don't buy it. I mean, Martinez with Steve Inskeep, and this is up first from NPR News. Republican lawmaker Marjorie Taylor Green asked if the president has lost sight of his own agenda. I think that the American people deserve to be put first. That's what make America. America great again meant to me.

The president has disowned a lawmaker who was one of his loudest allies. What does this divide mean for the MAGA movement? Also, President Trump welcomes the ruler of Saudi Arabia to the White House today. What does the president want from the Saudis? And what do they want from him? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. So I just want to check in really quick.

Are you okay? or are you suffering from sleep deprivation, a stack of bills, or political propaganda? If so, you may be stuck in the parent trap. On the It's Been a Minute podcast, we're diving headfirst into the anxieties of modern parenting and how that trickles out to all of us, even if you don't have children. Come find some relief. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. The House of Representatives is expected to vote today to release documents related to the convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein.

Now, the House vote alone would not do the job, but it would be a victory for people who want to see the Justice Department's information on Epstein. He was believed to have abused many underage women before his death in jail in 2019. The Justice Department said earlier this year there was nothing worth releasing. People who doubt this include Annie Farmer, one of Epstein's accusers, who spoke yesterday on NPR's Morning Edition. There's a piece about accountability wanting people that not just participated in these crimes, but also that allowed them, that funded them, that looked the other way. I think there's a reckoning for all of that that needs to happen. And so this idea that, no, there's nothing more to see here, we don't buy it. NPR congressional correspondent, Barbara Sprunt, is with us.

Barbara, so how does this congressional action work? Well, it would compel the Justice Department to release all unclassified files. So that's records, documents, communications, all invest. materials essentially within 30 days, and that includes documents related to Epstein's death. As a reminder, the administration has already released thousands of files to the House Oversight Committee, documents that also include names of other people connected to Epstein, but there are still more files that haven't been made public. And there's renewed interest in this. Democrats on the panel recently released emails where Epstein told a journalist that

President Trump, quote, knew about the girls, unquote, seemingly referring to the people, people Epstein was allegedly trafficking. The president has previously said he had a falling out with Epstein many years ago, and he has not been tied to any wrongdoing. All right. So say this passes the House, the files still would have a few steps to go before they're made public. That's right. And there are a few question marks here. What is the scope of what's in these files? We know that the measure gives some latitude to the Justice Department to withhold or redact portions of them, including documents that could jeopardize active investigations. So could that lead to delays? President Trump has already called for an investigation into Epstein's alleged ties to prominent Democrats, for example.

And another big question mark is the Senate. Will leadership bring this for a vote in that chamber? I think if there's a lot of support from Republicans in the House, it ups the chances of this moving in the Senate. So after the House, after the Senate, then it goes to President Trump's desk. That's right. And he has said that he would sign it if it comes to his desk. But an interesting element in this, he already has the authority. to direct the Justice Department to release documents. He did that in other cases with documents related to the investigations of the assassinations of the Kennedys and Martin Luther King Jr., for example.

But that's not what's happening here. Instead, the House is forcing a vote that would compel the administration to release the documents. Big difference. Wondering, Barbara, what you make of that reversal from President Trump on whether Republicans should back the measure or not? Yeah, that was a major U-turn. I think it speaks to how important this issue is to the base. I think it's notable that there was a pressure campaign from the White House to convince key Republicans, including some of his most vocal supporters, no less, not to sign the petition to force a vote on this. That didn't work. And to me, it shows that this is an area where the president doesn't have a firm grip on the House. I think the writing was on the wall that a lot of Republican House members were prepared to vote yes for this with or without the White House's blessing. So the president's about face could be a way of giving in to, you know, giving the go ahead to something that was already coming.

That's NPR's Barbara Sprunt. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so how did one of the president's devoted allies in Congress become a critic? Representative Marjorie Taylor Green has questioned Trump's approach to foreign and domestic policy. Now, part of her disagreement grows out of the Epstein files. She objected after the Justice Department decided not to release them, but her differences are broader than that.

The president calls Green, quote, a traitor. Green says it's Trump who has betrayed the agenda he ran on. NPR Stephen Fowler is here to explain this. Hey there, Stephen. Good morning. Okay, so she rose as a huge Trump supporter. What happened? Well, for the last five years, Trump and Green have had one of the strongest relationships on Capitol Hill, but every relationship has its ups and downs. In this moment, Trump campaigned on releasing all of the Department of Justice files pertaining to Epstein to uncover what some call a vast conspiracy about powerful figures in government hiding the truth about child sex abuse. But this year, Trump has done the opposite. He's stonewalled the release and insulted Republicans who want more information, leaving some MAGA conservatives unhappy with certain aspects of his presidency so far. Oh, this is interesting.

You just spoke in the plural. MAGA conservatives. Is Green expressing something broader in Trump's base? Well, there have been several instances where some on the right say the president hasn't delivered on domestic priorities that make America great again. And for almost every instance, there is Marjorie Taylor Green articulating that disconnect. Like in June, when the U.S. bombed Iran, she went on Steve Bannon's war room show. Six months in C, and here we are, turning back on the campaign promises, and we bombed Iran on behalf of Israel.

In August, she called Israel's war in Gaza a genocide, has questioned the effectiveness of mass deportations and trade wars, and has been one of the few Republicans in Congress to say that Trump might not always be right. Well, what is the president said about her? Over the last few weeks, Steve, there were signs that Trump would eventually lash out online and basically disown her politically. He said this last week in the Oval Office. I don't know what happened to Montreys.

A nice woman, but I don't know what happened. She's lost away. But as we mentioned, Green is not the only Republican wondering if it's Trump who's lost his way. Here's what Green said in a CNN interview Sunday. I think that the American people deserve to be put first. That's what make America great again meant to me. And I think that President Trump can do that if he refocuses his effort. I'm remembering a very different politician when she ran for Congress in Georgia in 2020, and you were around.

Is this a big change in her politics? This is important to reiterate, Steve. Marjorie Taylor Green has remained ideologically consistent from day one. Unlike others who've criticized Trump and moved away from the Republican Party, Marjorie Taylor Green is still one of the most conservative members of Congress. At last year's Republican National Convention, she called Trump the, quote, founding father of the America First movement. Now what you're seeing is the assertion that founding father does not equal sole arbiter of what that movement looks like.

What does that suggest then for the movement in the future? Trump has dominated the Republican Party for a decade by creating a big tent of different and sometimes conflicting ideological groups and getting them to agree to his views and priorities or else. That's starting to change, especially as Trump faces record unpopularity and continues to break with his basis idea of conservatism. there's always going to be this question of what a post-Trump GOP looks like, but Marjorie Taylor Green is forcing Republicans to confront that question much earlier than they'd planned and with much less certainty about the possible directions. And Pierre Stephen Fowler, thanks so much, sir. Thank you.

President Trump hosts Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince at the White House today. Yeah, the two have major deals to announce. Underpaying it all, though, are the close personal ties between the two men, ties that held even after the killing of a top Saudi critic in Washington Post-Column this seven years ago. NPR's Ayabatrawi is based in the Gulf, has been following the Crown Prince and other matters. Good morning. Good morning, Steve. Okay, so what are the two leaders expecting to announce and discuss? Well, the biggest deal that's being eyed right now by Prince Mohammed bin Senman isn't actually more billions in weapons sales.

He has enough of those. What he wants is a U.S. guarantee against a range of threats in the region. That means a coveted U.S. defense pact similar to the one Trump signed with Qatar recently after it was attacked by both Iran and Israel over the summer. And this is not a defense treaty. So it doesn't need Congress to approve it and it is less binding. But it does offer Saudi Arabia guarantees that the U.S. would use military measures if necessary to respond if it's attacked. And that did not happen under Trump's first term when Saudi oil facilities were bombed by Iranian missiles and drones from Yemen. Now, another deal being eyed is a defense deal, but it's unlike any before. The Crown Prince wants advanced F-35 jets that currently only Israel flies in the Mideast.

And the Saudis also want a U.S. civilian nuclear technology transfer and advanced AI chips. And for all of this, Steve, the prince says he's ready to invest $600 billion or more into the U.S. under Trump. Okay, big dollar figure. I'm reminded, though, all politics is local and often foreign policy is domestic policy. What are the domestic calculations of each of these leaders? Okay, this visit is important for both. First of all, it gives Trump a chance to turn those headlines away from the Jeffrey Epstein emails and the challenges within his own party over that to multi-billion dollar investments that he says

create jobs in the U.S. and hurled the U.S. return of global superiority over China and Russia, you know, the MAGA message. Now, for the prince, this is a turning point. It is his first time back in Washington since 2018 when that Saudi critic in Washington Post-columnist, Jamal Khashoggi, was killed by the prince's aides in an operation that the CIA says he approved. The Crown Prince, also known as MBS, has denied that, and there is a continued clamp down on perceived credits in the kingdom, including travel bans that are still imposed on women's rights activists. But he is a popular leader among young Saudis.

Steve, I was just in Saudi last month speaking with Saudis of all ages, and they say there are storing rents in Riyadh right now, and that's worrying to them. But they say he has transformed the country, and he's turning Riyadh into a kind of global city like Dubai, with plans to host the World Expo and the FIFA World Cup. But he's going to need companies to also invest in Saudi Arabia, Two, to create jobs for Saudis and to keep pace with these massive reforms. I'm thinking about the way the president makes diplomacy personal. It's about him and the other leader.

You can picture him saying, look, Crown Prince, here's where I'm building my ballroom. What's the relationship like? Yes, you know, the president has leaned on those ties with Gulf Arab rulers in particular for a range of issues like his Gaza ceasefire plan and the 20th point peace plan right now. But there are also billions of dollars, meanwhile, you know, from Gulf money, flowing into his family. these business ventures, and that includes Trump-branded Gulf courses and towers being built in Saudi Arabia and across the Gulf by a Saudi developer. Now, the White House says that and other business deals are not a conflict of interest and that the president gave up a life of luxury for

public service. But analysts that I've spoken to in the Gulf say, you know, the leaders in this region are simply leveraging a transactional relationship while Trump's in office, and they know very well that election cycles can bring a change in mood in Washington on a dime. NPR International Correspondent, Iabatrawe in Dubai. Thanks so much. Thanks, Steve. And that's at first for this Tuesday, November 18th. I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm May Martinez. Up first gets you all caught up. And morning edition actually takes you deeper. We are live here every morning on your local NPR station with reporting, interviews, and also the context behind the headlines.

And if you want to listen in the afternoon, you can do that as well. Download the NPR app. listen whenever you want. You can find all of NPR's most popular shows and so many options to get the news you need to start your day, so go on and get it. I just pick up a phone and call A. Martinez, I ask you, that's my option. Hey, what's up? Today's up

first was edited by Kelsey Snell, Megan Pratt's, Rebecca Rossman, Muhammad Al-Bard D.C. and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziod Butch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas, who was a little impatient with me this morning, because I've been very slow to get going. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott and our

Technical Director is the always patient, Carly Strange. Join us tomorrow.