Up First from NPR - India And Pakistan Conflict, Papal Conclave Begins, Transgender Military Ban

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

India struck multiple targets across Pakistan in the most extensive strikes in more than 50 years, the papal conclave to elect the next leader of the Roman Catholic church begins today, and the Supreme Court has allowed a ban on transgender people serving in the military. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Ryland Barton, Daniel Burke, Krishnadev Calamur, Janaya Williams and Alice Woelfle.It was produced by Kaity Kline, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas.We get engineering support from Neisha Heinis. And our technical director is Carleigh Strange. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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and we're proud to do this work for you and with you. India struck multiple targets across Pakistan, and Pakistan retaliated with strikes on Kashmir, parts of with both countries control. Not just one blast, there were a number of blasts. So windows were shaking. Is a de-escalation at all possible? I'm Michelle Martin, that's A. Martinez, and this is Up First from NPR News.

The Supreme Court has allowed a ban on transgender people serving in the military, but more than 4,000 active-d duty service members are transgender. What happens to them? And cardinals from around the world have arrived in Vatican City to choose the next leader of the Catholic Church. The selection process to replace Pope Francis will be done in secrecy. We are in God's hands and we believe that God will act among us and we will have the Holy Father he wants us to have.

Stay with us so you've got all the news you need to start your day. The scary new movie Sinners from the director of Black Panther finds Michael B. Jordan playing twin brothers. It's got vampires, it's got great music, and it's a fun one to see with a big crowd. This is the most excited I've been about a movie in a very long time. We'll tell you why you should see Sinners on the biggest screen you can.

Listen to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR. Are you like me? Do you love picking the best and worst looks on the red carpet? Well, for the first time ever, The Met is dedicating their annual gala to the history of black fashion. Do you love picking the best and worst looks on the red carpet? Well, for the first time ever, The Met is dedicating their annual gala to the history of black fashion.

So from where I'm sitting, the looks could be really good or not. I mean, will someone wear a do-rag when they shouldn't? Let's get into the backstory of black fashion and rate the best and worst looks together. This week on the It's Been A Minute podcast from NPR. Are you like me suddenly using words like conclave, cardinal, and papa billet in casual conversation? Well, friend, you too may be pope-pilled. I have a whole list. I was starting

with like 25, 30 names and I was like whittling it down. I'm imagining you like Claire Danes in Homeland, like the full board, like some strings connected. For everything you need to know about picking a new pope, listen to the It's Been A Minute podcast today. Indians and Pakistanis had been waiting for or dreading this moment. India struck multiple targets across Pakistan in the most extensive strikes in more than 50 years. It comes after India blamed Pakistan for an attack that killed 26 people in late April. Pakistan denies any connection.

Its military has retaliated by firing into parts of Indian-held Kashmir, and it claims it has downed five Indian aircraft. The Associated Press reports that more than 30 people were killed in Pakistan. India says three people were killed on their side. On the line with us is NPR's Diya Hadid. She covers Pakistan and India from her base in Mumbai. Diya, tell us about these strikes. They happened overnight there.

Yeah, and most people were sleeping, but a resident near one of the worst hit places in southern Pakistan recorded this audio. recorded this audio. And even in a nearby town, one resident said the strikes woke up his family. This is Aja Azral. My family woke up and they said something is very strange is happening. That not just one blast, there were a number of blasts. So windows were shaking.

Wow. So what kind of places was India targeting in Pakistan? Well, India's army says it struck militant training camps and what they call terror infrastructure. And many of those strikes were in Pakistani-held Kashmir. Kashmir is that Himalayan territory divided between India and Pakistan. It's claimed by both and it's at the heart of nearly every conflict between the two countries. But Pakistan says the strikes mostly hit mosques and part of a hydropower dam. One prominent Pakistani militant says one of the strikes targeted his relatives and killed 14 people, including women and children. And that was in a small town in southern Pakistan. And it's really important to say here where these strikes

took place. Some were deep in Pakistan. one was near the country's second largest city. So here have a listen to Michael Kugelman. He writes the Foreign Policy's weekly South Asia Brief and he says, this hasn't happened in decades. The airstrikes that India has launched into Pakistan are the deepest into Pakistani territory since 1971. What also stands out about these recent strikes is the scale and intensity of them. An analyst I've spoken to say they were actually expecting India to hit hard. Expecting them? Why were they expecting that? Well just because of the nature of the attack that triggered these renewed tensions. It happened on April 22 when gunmen attacked Indian tourists in a meadow and it seems some of the gunmen targeted

Hindu men. It was the deadliest attack against civilians in years and the victims came from all over India so it just really triggered widespread anger. But after the strikes the Indian military said its response was measured, focused and non-escalatory. Analysts say those words signal that India is not interested in escalating this further. Now could all this maybe quiet down or do folks there expect more military actions? I guess the problem here is with strikes so deep in Pakistan and with this death toll, Pakistan may feel like it must respond to show people that its army isn't weak.

So analyst Pravin Donte with the International Crisis Group says other countries have to step in. I'm afraid if the international community doesn't step in, especially the US, then we're only seeing the beginning of these escalatory strikes. For now, President Trump has said he hopes this ends quickly and Secretary of State Marco Rubio says he's closely monitoring the situation. That's NPR's Diya Hadid in Mumbai. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

The papal conclave is beginning today at the Vatican. 133 cardinal electors are undertaking the solemn task of choosing the next leader of the Catholic Church. Joining me from outside St. Peter's Square in Rome is NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose. Jason, so let's start by just telling us what's happening throughout the day there. Well, A, as much as there have been lots of conversations about church politics and global affairs, today is a day of religious ceremony and spiritual preparation leading up to the votes. A morning mass in St. Peter's Basilica, which is the only public event.

A procession from the Vatican's Pauline Chapel to the Sistine Chapel while chanting the Litany of Saints. The hymn Veni creato spiritus to invoke the Holy Spirit. And an oath while touching the Gospels, the call extra omni, sending out all those not directly involved in the election, a final sermon, and then the voting begins. Now you've spoken with one of the cardinals who will be voting. What did you hear from him?

Well, Cardinal Michael Cherney is a Canadian Jesuit who has worked here at the Vatican under Pope Francis. This is his first time participating in the Conclave. He's only been a Cardinal since 2019 when Francis made him one. He says that Cardinals are not focusing on the politics of the Church or of the world when they're making this decision. It's neither the person in the sense of the individual qualities nor is it the issues. Voting is not based on calculation. Our voting is based

on openness to the Holy Spirit. Cherny stressed several times with me that he considers this election a religious experience, not primarily a political one. And I think that's something we don't pay enough attention to in secular culture and what makes the outcome so unpredictable. Yeah. Now, what have the Cardinals been talking about amongst themselves in the days leading up to today? Well, it's clear from what the Vatican has been telling us about these meetings that are happening with the Cardinals that they are serious issues of war and peace, migration

and climate change. But Cardinal Czerny says he's not anxious. The Church herself is the expression of God's love for us in history. We're not lost or not orphans. We are in God's hands and we believe that God will act among us and we will have the Holy Father he wants us to have. But still, the Vatican is also telling us that the Cardinals are discussing internal problems, church finances, clergy sex abuse, as well

as divisions within the church over doctrine. Jason, you're in Rome right now, but you mainly cover religion in the United States. So what can you tell us about the relationship of American Catholics to the papacy and to that doctrine that you mentioned? Well, A, about 20% of Americans identify as Catholic, and large majorities hold views that contradict official Church teaching, teachings from the Pope. One example, Pew Research finds that even though abortion is considered a grave sin within Catholicism, six in ten American Catholics

believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Despite disagreeing with Church teaching, many American Catholics keep a close eye on who the pope is because he sets the tone and the agenda for the whole church. So as we look at this conclave, more progressive Catholics might be delighted by someone like Pope Francis because of his focus on issues like poverty, migration, and the environment. At the same time, more conservative Catholics are looking for someone more traditional, focused on that church doctrine. That's MPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose in Rome. Jason, thank you. You're welcome. The U.S. Supreme Court has allowed the Trump administration to begin executing its ban

on transgender military service members, at least for now. Joining us to talk about this is NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg. Now, Nina, President Trump has been trying to ban transgender troops in the military since his first administration. What's the difference between then and now? In the first Trump term, he partially succeeded, but the ban was reversed by President Biden, only to be put back in place by Trump after he took office for a second term. This new order mimics the Trump order from the first administration and appears to strengthen

it as well, barring transgender individuals from enlisting and discharging active duty transgender service members. All right. So what did the Supreme Court do yesterday? In a one paragraph unsigned order, the justices revived the transgender ban, which had been temporarily blocked by the lower courts. The courts three liberal justices, Kagan, Sotomayor, and Jackson noted their dissents and would have barred

the administration from putting the ban in place while the case continues to be litigated in the lower courts. So the case now goes back to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals for the Trump policy to be reviewed. There's been a lot of back and forth in this case since 2016. That's when the Obama administration first allowed openly trans individuals to serve in the military. So how is the new policy different? The Obama policy was reversed by Trump in 2017,

followed by new rules issued by then Defense Secretary James Mattis. The Mattis rules allowed exceptions to the ban for active service members previously diagnosed with gender dysphoria. But the new policy, the Trump 2 policy, is significantly tougher because it bars from the military anyone with a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

And while that isn't everyone, it is most trans individuals. Now where are things now? The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals will take a whack at deciding the issue, and that decision can be appealed to the Supreme Court, though the ban is likely to remain in place during the appellate process. All right, so let me cut to the chase here. What are the chances that the Supreme Court will ultimately rule against the Trump trans ban

in the military? Probably slim to none. The fact is that the Supreme Court, even on a temporary basis, has allowed the Trump administration to proceed with carrying out the ban. And that's a pretty strong indicator that the administration is very likely to prevail basis has allowed the Trump administration to proceed with carrying out the ban. And that's a pretty strong indicator that the administration is very likely to prevail

in the long run. When it comes to the numbers of people, how many trans individuals are in the military right now under the policy that allowed them to enlist and serve? According to Pentagon, about 0.2% of active military forces or about 4,000 individuals. So I need to wondering who are the plaintiffs that brought this challenge? They're a group of current and aspiring transgender service members,

including lead plaintiff, Emily Schilling, a Navy pilot who's flown more than 60 combat missions over her nearly two decades of military service. Ruling in their favor, Judge Benjamin Settle in Washington State, who's a George W. Bush appointee, concluded that the government's classification of gender dysphoria as a disqualifying medical condition was essentially a ruse motivated by hostility towards transgender people. So safe to say that the Supreme Court will eventually actually rule on this? Probably the case will come back to the court next term for a final ruling, regardless of

who wins in the Ninth Circuit. All right, that's NPR's Nina Totenberg. Nina, thanks. My pleasure. And that's a first for Wednesday, May 7th. I'm Martinez. And I'm Michelle Martin. The NPR app lets you keep public radio in your pocket.

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