Up First from NPR - India Pakistan Tensions Mount, Food Stamps Data, Nuclear Reactor Watchdog

Episode Date: May 10, 2025

India and Pakistan accuse each other of carrying out strikes on military bases. It's the latest escalation between the two countries. Plus, NPR learns that the Department of Agriculture is demanding states hand over the personal data of those receiving food stamps. Critics fear the information could be used to carry out deportations. Also, the Trump administration tightens its control over the independent agency regulating America's nuclear reactors.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Indian and Pakistan accuse each other of carrying out strikes on military bases. It's the latest escalation in the conflict between the two nuclear armed states. I'm Ayesha Rasca. And I'm Scott Simon and this is Up First from NPR News. The U.S. is now urging restraint from both sides. We have the latest. Plus, NPR learns that the Department of Agriculture is demanding states hand over the data on those receiving food stamps. Critics fear the information could be used to carry out deportations.

And the Trump administration tightens its control over the independent agency regulating America's nuclear reactors. Experts worry the move could put safety at risk. So stay with us. We have the news you need to start your weekend. Does the idea of listening to political news freak you out? Well, don't sweat it. The NPR Politics Podcast makes politics a breeze. Every episode will break down the day's headlines into totally normal language

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after the two countries traded military strikes. The latest conflict was triggered by a massacre in Kashmir last month. India blamed Pakistan for carrying out the attack. Despite the continued violence, both sides say they're willing to de-escalate. And Piers Dhiya Hadi joins us now from Mumbai. Dhiya, thanks for being with us. You're welcome, Scott. President Trump announced on Truth Social this morning that Indian Pakistan have agreed to an

immediate ceasefire. What do we know? What we know is what President Trump has said. We're still trying to chase confirmation from Indian and Pakistani officials, but we have been hearing similar rumours, but nothing verified yet. What we do know so far is that Pakistan's foreign minister said that his country had no choice but to intensify its attacks on India overnight. And that's because India struck three air bases, including one near the capital Islamabad. And he was saying, you know, the operation that we started today, it will all end in some way and it depends on what India wants. And as soon as the operation was announced, Pakistani forces were sharing clips of them

firing projectiles into India. We have given a strong punch to our country. Alhamdulillah. Do you remind us, how did this start? This escalation began after gunmen opened fire on tourists in Indian-held Kashmir. They killed 26 people in late April and India said the group that claimed responsibility was a proxy for the Pakistani army. Pakistan denies any connection. But overnight on Wednesday, India began military strikes using missiles and said it was in retaliation for that April

attack and the two countries have been exchanging fire every night since. And how many casualties? The death toll has been remarkably small for the amount of fire that both sides are using and the density of the population in the way. And of course every person that died was somebody's everything. I don't want to diminish that. On the Pakistani side there's been over 45 killed. On the Indian side about 20 people and I guess that tells you something. And what? Well that both sides are flexing military muscle, but either they both have incredible air defences or they're avoiding civilian casualties.

It's likely both because this is a densely populated area. Tens of millions of people live within this firing line. And recognising again that people have died, does this mean both sides are acting with restraint? It's hard to tell. You see, every analyst I've spoken to say these strikes have been getting more serious by the day.

It's just both countries seem to be calibrating responses. I mean, already we haven't seen anything this serious in more than 50 years. But perhaps there might be an off ramp. You know, for days there was concern that the Americans weren't intervening enough, but now we have President Trump announcing that there might be a ceasefire. So let's see what the coming hours bring. Yes, Secretary of State Rubio made a flurry of calls, apparently,

at Indian Pakistani officials. What are you hearing about a de-escalation? What we're hearing is that potentially things might quiet down this evening, but it's really at this point a matter of waiting to see, just because this hasn't happened in 50 years, this level of violence. NPR's Diya Hadid in Mumbai, Diya, thanks so much for being with us. You're welcome, Scott. Millions of Americans rely on food assistance every month. Now the Department of Agriculture is demanding access to their personal data. The White House says the information is required to identify fraud and overpayments.

But the move comes as the Trump administration amasses data for immigration enforcement. We're joined now by Jude Joffe Block from NPR's Power and Influence team. Thanks for being with us, Jude. Oh, thank you. What kind of data is the USDA asking for? Yeah, so there are more than 40 million people who get food assistance every month, and the program is known as SNAP. And the data is with the states.

That's how it's always been. But last week, the department told all states, as well as the companies that process payments, they have to hand over data like names, dates of birth, addresses, and social security numbers of all SNAP participants going back five years to January 2020, which is a lot of people and a lot of sensitive data. And our reporting found out that even before this directive came out, the agency's Office of Inspector General was trying to get even more expansive data on SNAP recipients from the country's biggest states, including at least in one state

citizenship status. How could this data foster the country's biggest states, including at least in one state, citizenship status. How could this data foster the administration's efforts to deport people who are in the country illegally? We still don't know how the data could be used. Last week's letter said it was to ensure program integrity and verify the eligibility of benefit recipients. But several news outlets have now reported that the DOGE team has been combining various federal databases in an effort to build up a tool to track and arrest immigrants. And where this data fits in, you know, it could be another piece of the puzzle as it includes recent addresses. Even though immigrants who are in the country without legal status don't qualify for

SNAP benefits, there are people in SNAP's data sets that could be subject to deportation now or in the future or share a household with someone in that situation. For example, if U.S. citizen children are eligible for food assistance, their parents can sign them up regardless of the parent's immigration status. We didn't hear back from Doge and the White House on this, though. And Jude, isn't access to sensitive personal information one of the big legal hurdles

that this administration keeps running into? Yeah, there are more than a dozen federal lawsuits at this point that alleged Doge staffers have been illegally granted permission to view databases with personal and financial information that the government maintains. You know, multiple federal judges have expressed concern about what information Doge has accessed and why. You know, we spoke judges have expressed concern about what information Doge has accessed

and why. You know, we spoke with John Davison. He's an attorney at the nonprofit Electronic Privacy Information Center. He had this to say about the latest demand for Snap data. It is absolutely alarming from a privacy perspective. It's reckless. It is an unprecedented extension of the administration's campaign to consolidate personal data.

His position is that this data request likely violates the Privacy Act, though the USDA told us the request will comply with privacy laws and will follow responsible data handling requirements. Where do things go from here, Jude? Does the federal government access to this data right now? The states are still trying to figure out how to respond to these requests, and it could

wind up like a lot of things these days in the courts. As for what to expect next, we know Republicans in Congress are teeing up a proposal to make deep cuts to SNAP, the food assistance program. And we've seen this play out where federal data is used by DOJ to make exaggerated allegations of waste and fraud to justify slashing government programs. NPR's Jude Joffe Block, who reported this story with NPR's Stephen Fowler, and you can read a fuller version of their story on npr.org. Jude, thanks so much. Thank you. NPR has learned that the Trump administration is tightening its control over the nation's

nuclear regulator. The White House will now sign off on new rules regarding safety. It's a radical departure for a watchdog that's historically been considered among the most independent in government. We're joined now by NPR science correspondent, Jeff Brumfield. Jeff, thanks for being with us. Good to be with you, Scott.

This agency, of course, known as the NRC Nuclear Regulatory Commission, what's changing? So the NRC was set up back in 1974 by Congress as an independent agency, and it's operated under the purview of five commissioners, a mix of Democrats and Republicans. And their job is to enforce the rules of the nation's nuclear reactors.

But now the White House is getting involved. Two U.S. officials tell NPR that any new rules for nuclear safety must now go through the White House Office of Management and Budget for review before they can be finalized. And the White House also reserves the right to change those nuclear safety rules if they see fit. This is a big departure. I spoke to a former chair of the NRC, Alison McFarland. She was appointed by President Obama and here's what she had to say.

It's absolutely essential that the nuclear regulator be independent. And what does that mean? It means independent of political and industry influence. She felt this kind of review should be off limits. Sounds like even more changes might be coming too, I gather. You've seen a draft of an executive order that President Trump may sign regarding the NRC. What does that say?

Yeah, that's right. This executive order is entitled, quote, ordering reform of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. It calls for a reduction in force at the NRC, a, quote, wholesale revision of nuclear safety regulations, speeding up review of licenses for new kinds of reactors, and lastly, it instructs the agency to look into relaxing some of the radiation standards for workers and the public. Of course, this is a draft. We don't know what will be in the final version, or even if Trump will sign a final version,

but he is expected to sign some orders related to nuclear power relatively soon. Jeff, what does the administration seem so eager to get involved with nuclear safety? You know, Scott, it's less about safety and more about independence. The administration really doesn't like independent agencies. It views them as bureaucracy run amok. Here's Russ Vogt, Trump's head of the Office of Management and Budget, speaking about it to Tucker Carlson. There are no independent agencies. Congress may have viewed them as such, but as an administration, the whole notion of

an independent agency should be thrown out. And the White House echoed that sentiment in a statement for this story. They said, quote, the president of the United States is head of the executive branch, and then went on to say that it was he who was in charge of agencies like the NRC. Now I should say the NRC has a reputation for being high bound and extremely strict and in fact Congress passed legislation last year to try to reform its regulatory process but even critics of the agency said they really doubted the White House getting involved would help. For one thing it'll just add another layer of bureaucracy

when trying to deal with new regulations. Certainly a lot of people would be concerned about whether these changes could somehow help make a nuclear emergency more likely. Yeah, well, McFarland, the former NRC chair, told me she did think this would impact safety. If you aren't independent of political and industry influence, then you are at risk of an accident, frankly.

But at the same time, the NRC is maintaining very high existing standards at nuclear plants and the industry has a decent safety track record. I really think this is more about what safety might look like five or ten years down the road. And there's Jeff Brumfield. Thanks so much. Thank you. And that's up first for Saturday, May 10 2025. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. And I'm Scott Simon. Michael Radcliffe produced today's episode with help from Elena Twork, Gabriel Dunatov and Danica Pineda.

Martin Patience is our editor. He had help from Ed McNulty, Dee Parvez and Miguel Macias. Andrew Craig is our director and he's so helpful with support from technical director Andy Huther, who's also very helpful, and engineers David Greenberg and Arthur Holliday-Lorent. Our senior supervisor and editor is Shannon Rhodes, Evie Stone is our executive producer, and Louise Clements is our deputy managing editor. Tomorrow on the Sunday story, Sean Combs was once at the forefront of hip hop music and fashion,

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