Up First from NPR - Michigan Church Shooting, Government Shutdown Negotiations, Trump Netanyahu Meeting

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

A gunman was killed in a shootout with police after he drove his truck into a Michigan church during Sunday services, opened fire inside, and set the building on fire, the FBI is still search for answers about his motive. President Trump is set to meet with Democratic leaders at the White House as a government shutdown looms and health care funding remains a key sticking point. And President Trump meets with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House to discuss a new U.S.-backed ceasefire plan for the war in Gaza.  Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.And for more content from everything NPR makes and the work of our member stations all around the country, join the POD CLUB newsletter at NPR.orgToday’s episode of Up First was edited by Russell Lewis, Dana Farrington, Kate Bartlett, Mohamad ElBardicy and Alice Woelfle.It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Lindsay TottyWe get engineering support from Neisha Heinis. And our technical director is Stacey Abbott.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

At least five people are dead after a gunman rammed his truck into a church in Michigan during services, started shooting and set the building on fire. The suspect is among the dead after a shootout with police. Authorities still don't have a motor. I'm Michelle Martin. That's A. Martinez. And this is up first from NPR News. A government shutdown could begin tomorrow. And President Trump is set to meet congressional leaders for last-minute negotiations. Now, if the president at this meeting is going to rant and just yell at Democrats, we won't get anything done. Is a deal still possible or are both sides still too locked in? And President Trump meets Israel's prime minister at the White House today to discuss a new U.S.-backed ceasefire plan. We're getting pretty close to having a deal gone Gaza and maybe even peace.

Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day. Military commanders, intelligence officials, diplomatic power players, they know things you may not about where the world is headed, and we will pull back the curtain on what they're thinking on sources and methods, NPR's new national security podcast. Our team will help you understand America's shifting role in the world. Listen to sources and methods from NPR. I'm Peter Sagle. NPR is very serious, mostly. It treats newsmakers with all due respect. almost all the time. It brings you the most important information about the issues that really matter, usually. And it never asks famous people about things they don't know anything about, except once in a while. Join us for the great exception. Listen to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me,

the news quiz from NPR. Here at Life Kit, we take advice seriously. We bring you evidence-based recommendations. And to do that, we talk with researchers and experts on all sorts of topics. Because we have the same questions you do. Like, what's really in my shampoo? Or should I let my kid quit soccer? Or what should I do with my savings in uncertain economic times? You can listen to NPR's Life Kit in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. A church service in Grand Blank, Michigan was violently interrupted Sunday morning after a man drove his truck into a Mormon church fired at the people inside and set the building on fire. Authorities say four people from the church died and eight others are hospitalized. And a suspected gunman is also dead

after exchanging fire with officers, an unknown number of people are unaccounted for as authority's search what remains of the church for additional victims. Join now by Michigan Public Reporter, Steve Carmody. Steve, what do you know about what happened? Well, authorities say the attack began just before 1030 yesterday morning when the suspect drove his truck through the front doors of the church as the service was underway. Hundreds of people were inside.

Grand Blank Township Police Chief William Rennie praised the bravery of the people as the gunmen opened fire. They were shielding the children who were also present within the church, moving them to safety, just hundreds of people just practicing their faith. As people fled, authorities say the suspect deliberately set the church on fire using gasoline. Two law enforcement officers arrived within a minute of the first 911. one call and confronted the gunman outside the church, killing him about eight minutes later. Who is the suspected gunman? He's been identified as 40-year-old Thomas Jacob Sanford. He lived

in a small town about 20 minutes from the church. He's an ex-U.S. Marine. But we don't know yet about any possible motive for the attack, or if he had any relationship with the church or anyone who was attending the Sunday morning church service. Okay. Now, where's the investigation right now. The FBI has taken charge of the investigation into the shooting and the suspected gunman. Ruben Coleman is the acting special agent in charge of the FBI Detroit Field Office. This act of violence has no place in our state or anywhere else in our country. The FBI is committed to continue finding out the facts, circumstances, and motives behind this tragedy. Now, we expect to learn more today about the victims of Sunday's attack, and when

the first funerals will be held. Okay. Grand Blank, Michigan is a small town, around 8,000 residents. It's 13 miles south of Flint, Michigan. How are the people there holding up? Well, last night there were several places where people gathered for small vigils. A steady stream of people stopped by to pay their respects a short distance down the road from the church. Mother and daughter Cheryl and Haley Perkins lived nearby. They were just overwhelmed at what happened just down the street. They just want to go to church. They just want, they just want, people just want to go to church in peace. Now, others express shock.

Scott Bennett is the Grand Blank Township Supervisor. This kind of violence doesn't happen in our community. And we are heartbroken that it came to Grand Blank Township. Of course, that's the sentiment we often hear in each community where there's been a mass shooting in the United States. That's Steve Carmody, a report. with Michigan Public. Steve, thank you very much. You're welcome. If Congress fails to reach agreement and pass a stopgap funding bill before tomorrow night,

there will be a government shutdown. As you probably know, Republicans control both the House and the Senate and the White House, but they need Democrats help to clear a 60-vote threshold in the Senate. And as the clock keeps on ticking, President Trump, was planning to meet this afternoon with the top four leaders in Congress, two Democrats, two Republicans. Join us to talk through what that discussion might look like is NPR congressional correspondent Barbara Sprun. So Barbara, Democrats have been pushing for a meeting with the White House as it gets closer and closer to this shutdown, possibly. So how did this all come about?

Well, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries were supposed to meet with President Trump last week. But the president canceled that meeting because he thought their demands were unreasonable. and they're now going to the Oval Office alongside their Republican counterparts, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. What's interesting to me is I don't think Democrats' demands have really shifted between that canceled meeting and the one today. Okay, so then what are they looking for? Well, there's a few things.

Number one, they want to undo some cuts to health care programs that were put in place as part of the major spending and tax bill that Republicans passed earlier this summer. And another big sticking point is that Democrats want to make some expanded tax cuts from the Affordable Care Act permanent. Those are on track to expire at the end of the year. Thune has said that there's time to negotiate on that particular point later. He first wants to pass this stopgap bill and avoid a shutdown and then negotiate with Democrats.

But Schumer has said that he wants to negotiate this now. Republicans in the Senate need at least seven Democrats to join them in order to pass the bill to fund the government through late November. Here's Schumer yesterday on NBC's Meet the Press. We need a serious negotiation. Now, if the president at this meeting is going to rant and just yell at Democrats and talk about all his alleged grievances and say this, that, and the other thing, we won't get anything done. But my hope is it'll be a serious negotiation. Okay, so that's Schumer's hope. But, of course, really comes down to what the president says in the meeting.

Yeah, that's right. I mean, the Trump factor in some ways is unpredictability. You know, we've seen him scrap bipartisan deals and meetings before pretty abruptly. In this case, within the last week, he's blasted the Democrats. leaders for what they're demanding and then agree to a meeting. So the question I have is, is this going to be a meeting where everyone comes willing to compromise and negotiate, or will they leave and just tell their bases, hey, you know, I tried, but the other side is being unreasonable. So what would happen if there is no deal? Well, critical services would continue,

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid payments, although there could be administrative delays in processing new applications for those programs. In a shutdown, anything deemed non-essential is put on hold. So Americans could experience delays in certain services. Hundreds of thousands of federal workers would go without pay. And in an unprecedented move, the White House's budget arm instructed agencies last week to prepare to lay off federal workers permanently instead of that traditional temporary furlough while a deal is made. So if the administration makes good on that threat, it could mean that whenever the federal government does reopen, it would have a smaller workforce. All right, that's MPR congressional correspondent.

Barbara Sprint. Barbara, thanks. Thank you. President Trump also meets Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today in the White House. Both leaders are expressing optimism about ending the war in Gaza. Trump has a new 21-point peace plan for Gaza. The U.S. is still negotiating the details with Israel and Arab countries. Will Trump and Netanyahu reach a breakthrough?

Let's discuss the details with NPR's Daniel Estre. in Tel Aviv. So, Daniel, what's in President Trump's proposal for ending the Gaza war? I spoke with a person briefed on the proposal who confirmed to me some of the main points. It calls on Hamas to release all 48 of its remaining hostages, living and dead, up front. And then it calls for a gradual process where a multinational Arab and Muslim peacekeeping force would enter Gaza and Israeli forces would withdraw. Now, this is a plan that Trump presented to leaders of Arab countries in New York last week. It is the most serious effort yet since Trump entered office to end the war and to chart a post-war future for Gaza.

Okay. So how much is Israel on board with this U.S. plan? Yeah, that's the question. Netanyahu, the prime minister, has been negotiating the details with Trump's envoy Steve Whitkoff and also with the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who's now gotten involved in this matter. And the person briefed on the talks told me that there are still a few difficult points left to resolve between the Israelis and the U.S. side. First is the issue of disarming Hamas. What would that look like? Hamas is adamantly opposed to giving up its weapons. And also the question of the role of the Palestinian Authority in a post-war administration of Gaza. Palestinian Authority is the internationally recognized Palestinian leadership. It's based in the West Bank. But Netanyahu

does not want them to have any role in Gaza. He has long seen a unified Palestinian leadership as a step toward a Palestinian state, which he does not want. And notably, A, I should add, this is not an Israeli Hamas negotiation. This is an Israeli U.S. negotiation here. Netanyahu, as we have reported, has been a major obstacle to ending the war throughout the war. He has a far-right coalition that still wants the war to continue, and they will find it very hard to accept a lot of the points that Trump is proposing now. You know, we've heard before, Daniel, about deals being close or something in the works doesn't seem to ever happen. Any reason to think that this effort could be any different?

Yes, I think there is reason. Trump, first of all, brought this plan to Arab leaders, and Arab leaders are on board, and Trump wants it. That is the biggest point. It will be difficult for Netanyahu to tell Trump no to his proposal. Trump is, is Netanyahu's only major ally left. Israel faces growing international isolation over its conduct in the war. And Hamas, for its part, is also under major pressure from Arab countries and from Palestinians suffering under the war in Gaza, under major pressure to agree to a ceasefire. So this really is a critical moment. Next week, we will mark two years of war. The Palestinian death toll in Gaza has now reached more than 66,000, according to Gaza health officials.

So all eyes now are on Trump and on Netanyahu as they meet today in the White House. We will see if they announce if they've reached an agreement on a roadmap forward. And then the ball will be in Hamas's court. Sure. Daniel, mentioned that you're in Tel Aviv. What's the sense there in Tel Aviv? Are people weary of all this? Or are they just wanting to somehow get some kind of resolution? They're extremely weary.

I mean, polls, a latest survey of Israelis done just a few days ago showed over half of Israelis want the war to end, they want their hostages back. And that is what is driving people out to the streets every weekend. That's NPR's Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv. Daniel, thank you. You're welcome. And that's the first for Monday, September 29th. I'm A. Martinez. And I'm Michelle Martin. NPR has a new newsletter that recommends new podcast for you. It's drawn from everything NPR makes and the work of our member stations all around the country. It's called Pod Club, and you can get it now. Click on newsletters at the top of the npr.org homepage.

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Russell Lewis, Dana Farrington, Kate Bartlett, Mohamed El Bardisi, and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziat Budge, Nia Dumas, and Lindsay Toddy. We get engineering support from Nisha Highness, and our technical director is Stacey Abbott. Join us again tomorrow. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor-free through Amazon music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get Upfirst Plus at plus.npr.org.

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