Up First from NPR - Pope's Life And Legacy, What Happens Now In Rome, Reaction From South America

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Pope Francis has died at age 88. He was one of the most popular popes in decades and lent his voice to almost every modern issue facing the world, often taking the side of the marginalized and vulnerable. A look at funeral plans, the selection process for the next Pope, what happens next in Rome, and the reaction from South America. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter.Today's episode of Up First was edited by Russell Lewis, James Doubek, Miguel Macias, Arezou Rezvani and Janaya Williams.It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas.We get engineering support from Damian Herring. And our technical director is Carleigh Strange.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The Vatican says Pope Francis has died at the age of 88. He was one of the most popular pontiffs in decades and also a towering figure on the world stage. We will reflect on his legacy. I'm Steve Inskeep with A Martinez and this is Up First from NPR News. The pontiff died after a working weekend. He met with Vice President J.D. Vance and also spoke to people on Easter Sunday. Ruth Sherlock is in Rome and brings us what we know.

Pope Francis was the first non-European pope in more than a millennium. He set many precedents. The first Jesuit pope, the first pope to take the name of Saint Francis of Assisi, and the first pope from the global south. He also didn't shy away from speaking about LGBTQ plus issues, immigration, or the environment, which moments of his papacy stood out. Stay with us. We'll get all the news you need to start your day.

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the context, backstory, and analysis you need to understand our rapidly changing world. Listen to the Consider This Podcast from NPR. Cell phones, cars, coffee. How do these goods make their way to us from overseas and what will President Trump's tariffs mean for their price tags? Join the 1A Podcast as we explore supply chains and costs associated with some of your favorite products. It's our series How Did This Get Here? every Wednesday. Listen to the 1A podcast from NPR and WAMU. We can expect this week of news to be dominated by the memory of Jorge Mario Bergoglio. He was better known to the world as Pope Francis when he was elected to his exalted post in

2013. He assumed the name of a saint, Francis of Assisi, who deliberately lived in poverty. Francis cast an image of humility during years of strain and change within his church and around the world. He had a lot to say about both things and we will be hearing a lot about him. Yeah, we sure will. With us on the line from Rome is NPR International correspondent Ruth Sherlock. Ruth, the pope had been unwell, but it seemed like he was making his way back and then

the announcement of his death seemingly very suddenly. What can you tell us? Well, that's right. I mean, the Pope had been struggling with life-threatening double pneumonia. He'd been in hospital on the 14th of February. He was admitted to Gemelli Hospital in Rome for five weeks, which was the longest stay in his 12-year papacy. And at that time, there were prayers for Pope Francis in St. Peter's Square every day.

You know, I interviewed Faithful in tears, believing that this might be the moment, but he made this recovery. And he was brought back to the Vatican, back to his house in the Vatican, and it seemed as though he was recovering. But the Vatican says, made the announcement that he passed away suddenly at 7.35 this morning. The Vatican's Cardinal,

Kevin Farrell, said, the Bishop of Rome, Francis, returned to the house of the Father. His entire life was dedicated to the service of the Lord and His church. But as I said, he was starting to make more public appearances in his convalescence. In fact, he was made an appearance yesterday at Easter Mass. Right. Tell us about that and who he met with. Right. Well, first, he actually met with JD Vance, the American vice president who was visiting

in Italy. And it was not clear if that was going to happen, but he did have that brief meeting. And then he appeared at Easter Mass and he said, Christ, my hope has risen. He had a speech which he wasn't well enough to read out, you know, he was still quite breathless in his recovery from this double pneumonia. So he hadn't been able to speak very much publicly. But the message that he had at this Easter Mass, in some ways this is his last message, and this in some ways really went to the heart of what his papacy was about.

He focused a lot on conflict and on the plight of the poor. Pope Francis was the first Latin American pope. And in this speech, he spoke about the conflict happening in Israel and Gaza. So he talked about people wounded by conflict and called for an end to this endless outbursts of violence. He said, I appeal once again for immediate ceasefire in the Gaza Strip. He's been calling church in Gaza every day for months. And he again appealed to the international community, said, you know, come to the aid of a starving people that aspires to a future of peace.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like something he would say. What do we know about funeral plans for the pope? It will happen in between four and five days, and he's tried to strip away a lot of the pomp from Papal funeral. In fact, he's asked to be buried in a simpler casket. In the past, he said that the Pontus funeral should be that of a shepherd and disciple of Christ and not of a powerful man of this world. That's NPR International correspondent Ruth Sherlock in Rome. Ruth, thank you very much. Thank you.

All right, let's bring in NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose. Ruth, thank you very much. Ruth Sherlock Thank you. Pete Slauson Let's bring in MPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose. Now Jason, you've covered Pope Francis for years. What were some of the moments of his papacy that most stick with you? Jason DeRose Well, I think of a number of issues that he addressed during the 12 years that he was pope. Immigrants and refugees, the environment, politics, and gender and LGBTQ plus issues. In the area of immigrants, early in his papacy, he took a trip to the island of Lampedusa to highlight the plight of refugees in North Africa.

Francis also traveled to the island of Lesbos to highlight refugees from the Middle East. He talked about refugees being especially close to the heart of God. And he reminded people of the biblical story that Jesus, Mary and Joseph shortly after Jesus' birth had to flee from Bethlehem to Egypt because King Herod wanted to kill Jesus. And he even drew attention to migrants and refugees

right before the US election saying that US Catholics should think about things like immigration in addition to issues such as abortion when they go to the polls. He was seen as a progressive in some ways. Well, that's right. In other areas such as the environment. His first solo encyclical of his papacy was focused on the environment.

It was about care for creation, which he said God created as good. He focused on the environment because the poorest of the earth are most directly affected by environmental degradation. This was all connected for him. Desertification, flooding led to famine and poverty and people being displaced. And that leads to a global migrant crisis. So that leads back to his interest and concern about immigrants. In the area of politics, he weighed in just earlier this year, you know, when Vice President

J.D. Vance tried to say that Catholic teaching was to care for your family and your community before caring for others. And Pope Francis really called him to task for that. He said, care is not about concentric circles, but a Christian cares for the most in need first. And that means one should focus on migrants and refugees. Again, getting back to that theme of his. To balance though his progressive stances, he also reaffirmed the all-male celibate priesthood and also upheld the church's

abortion stance. So there was a balance there with Pope Francis. What do you think his legacy as pope will be here in the United States? Well, I think he'll be remembered as the first pope from the Americas, of course, the first pope from outside Europe in more than a thousand years. One of his legacies, I think, will be his openness to dialogue, you know, he just led this series of conversations within the church about how the church wants to exist, should exist, and should talk to itself,

listen to the people in the pews. It shouldn't be so top-down, but should be much more bottom-up. He had an amazing appeal to younger people. You know, when I would go out and talk to people of, you know, in their teens and twenties and early thirties, they really felt a connection to him. He was the pope of their life. I spoke with a number of younger Catholics who we'll hear from later today on All Things

Considered about just that. And then, you know, I also think of a return to the church. Many people who had left, say, under the previous pope, Pope Benedict, who was stricter, Francis brought them back to the church. He brought a great deal of openness to them. Popular around the world. What about quickly in the United States? Was he as well-liked in the US? You know, not just enormously popular among Catholics, but enormously popular with non-Catholics. He was a pastor first, and I think that really came through a very different Pope from Pope Benedict, who was much

more top-down. NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose. Jason, thank you. You're welcome. Now, a big part of the pope's appeal was his personal story. Yeah, he was the son of immigrants. He grew up in Argentina, lived through turbulent times and became the first pope ever from Latin America. Let's go down to MPR's South America correspondent, Carrie Cahn.ari, tell us about Pope Francis before he was Pope and his upbringing in Argentina. Right. As you all said, he was born there to Italian immigrant parents that had fled fascist Italy.

He lived in the Flores neighborhood of Buenos Aires. He did learn some Italian as a child, but his parents wanted him to assimilate and really emphasize Spanish at home. He joined the Jesuits there after high school and during his time in Argentina the church where he rose to actually be Archbishop of Buenos Aires, there were conflicts in there and it was a time of turmoil in Argentina. Of course, there was the military dictatorship that he lived through which had taken power under the auspices of fighting

communism. There were leftist wings of the church where believers and proponents of progressive teachings of liberation theology were. Pope Francis has also endured criticism for some of his stances during that time. In critic charge, he didn't do enough to defend those imprisoned and tortured under the dictatorship. How is he likely to be remembered in Argentina? Well, I went there recently and I did speak to many Argentines, you know, just how they felt about the Pope's legacy and their feelings toward him. I went to the main cathedral in Buenos Aires where he delivered mass there a lot.

He was the archbishop. Overwhelmingly, of course, he's remembered, he's loved, he's treasured. I want to play you a little bit of what I heard. I found high school teacher, this high school teacher, Veronica Lopez, a math there. She says she actually received communion from Pope Francis at our confirmation decades ago and talked about his commitment to the poor. She says he always stood with the poor, those on the bottom rungs of society, and was such a strong proponent of social justice, she says. She really loved how he stressed values, moral values above wealth, and how important for a pope in this world it was to do that. Many

remember too that the pope was a diehard soccer fan, and a lot of people in soccer crazed Argentina mentioned that too. I just had to add that. Absolutely, absolutely. Now, what do you think two that the pope was a die-hard soccer fan and a lot of people in soccer-crazed Argentina mentioned that too. I just had to add that. Absolutely, absolutely. Now what do you think the first Latin American pontiff means to the region more broadly? Well, he was just, they loved that he was from Latin America, Argentina, and even in neighboring Brazil, you know, where I'm based, I would hear that a lot, but a lot of people also were very disappointed that he never came and visited, especially in his homeland.

Don't forget, this is a region that has some of the largest Catholic populations in the world. Brazil is the largest. He did come to Mexico in the summer of 2014. I was there, I remember that. He was warmly welcomed by the people. I remember joining crowds lining the streets. He came through on his Pope Mobile.

People were very excited to see the first Latin American Pope. He did get a bit of a chilly reception by Mexico's conservative church hierarchy. I was also there when he came to Cuba and he was well, crowds of people greeting him. He did not speak out about the communist government at the time and that had disappointed many dissidents, but people were very disappointed that when you speak to Argentines that they regret so much that Pope Francis never got a chance to come home. That's NPR South America correspondent, Kari Conn. Kari, thank you very much.

You're welcome. And that's a first for Monday, April 21st, I'm Ian Martinez. And I'm Steve Inskeep. Your next listen is Consider This from NPR News. We hear it up first, give you three big stories of the day, and Consider This dives into a single news story and what it means to you. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Russell Lewis, James Dubeck, Miguel Macias,

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