Up First from NPR - Supreme Court Hears TikTok Case, Syrians Return Home, French Rape Trial Verdicts

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

TikTok's U.S. future is up to the Supreme Court. The Chinese-owned company wants the high court to stop a ban of the app from taking effect next month. Many Syrian refugees say they want to go home, now that the Assad regime is gone — but what will wait there for them? In France, judges delivered verdicts in a rape case that has shocked the nation and the world. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Kara Plantoni, Arezou Rezvani, Ryland Barton, HJ Mai and Mohamad ElBardicy. It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Kaity Kline. We get engineering support from Nisha Heinis, and our technical director is Carleigh Strange.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Tick Tock's American future is now up to the Supreme Court. The Chinese owned company wants the high court to stop a ban of the app from taking effect next month. What does this mean for the tens of millions of Tick Tock users? I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin and this is Up First from NPR News. Seven thousand Syrian refugees have been living in a makeshift camp on the Jordanian border for the past nine years. Now after the fall of the Assad regime, most of them want to go home, but what will wait

for them there? And Piers Janerath is one of the first journalists to have visited the campsite. Also, judges delivered verdicts in a French rape case that shocked many people around the world. The victim has become a feminist hero, but will the trial make a difference for others? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, offering over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else.

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according to the ways of the masters, there's a pretty good chance that you're going to have to bend the law to get the materials that you need. If not break it. Yeah, to break international laws. you need. If not break it. Yeah. To break international laws. Your life stories, really good ones. That's American life.

What happens to democracy when one political party has near complete power? That's the question at the heart of Super Majority, the series The New Yorker just named one of the 10 best podcasts of 2024. Listen and hear what all the hype is about. It's season 19 of NPR's embedded podcast. Tick-tock and the Department of Justice are heading to the Supreme Court. The court accepted Tick-tock's request to hear arguments about a law that could ban the viral video app next month.

The court's chosen timing matters here as much as the decision to hear the case. The justices often move deliberately and take many months, but they chose in this case to move quickly, scheduling an argument for TikTok within three weeks on January 10th. And here's Bobby Allen is with us to talk about what this could mean. Good morning, Bobby. Good morning. So why is the Supreme Court stepping in?

Well, in short, because TikTok requested an emergency review. And this is TikTok's last legal shot, right? The company has been fighting a law that is set to take effect on January 19th that bans the app nationwide unless it splits off from its Chinese parent company ByteDance. It recently lost a lower court appeal, and now the Supreme Court has scheduled expedited oral arguments, and the hearing is happening in three weeks. What are the main issues the court is being asked to resolve?

Yeah, the case is about the balance between free speech and the possible threat of a foreign adversary. TikTok has long said that the Chinese government doesn't collect data on Americans and does not use the app to push propaganda propaganda but US officials say the risk of that happening is just too high and that the app has to be put out of business unless it sheds its China-based owner. Legal scholars say because of the First Amendment government restrictions on speech are very hard to uphold in court. Usually the

government can only suppress speech if it's really narrowly tailored to deal with a really specific problem. And a lower court ruled that the Chinese issue is actually enough to justify the ban, but now the Supreme Court is reviewing it and they could just come down differently. So it's TikTok's argument that this ban violates Americans' free speech rights? Yeah, that's right. The 170 million Americans on the app and actually, TikTok's own free speech rights, they say, as a corporation because they have a LA-based company and using the algorithm and pushing content, courts have shown, is another type of free speech. So there's kind of two free speeches at play here.

Okay, so what could this mean for the tens of millions of Americans who use TikTok? I mean, some people use it every day. Oh, yeah, yeah. So if the court overturns the law, you know, business as usual for the app, but if it is upheld, it could mean the app is going away very soon. The law is slated to start, you know, in early January. And at that point, TikTok, you know, will be kicked out of app stores on Apple and Android devices. So you won't be able to download it and the app will lose web hosting services. So, you know, all the companies that provide backend support for TikTok,

they'll have to drop the company. And if this happens, Michelle, it's not like the app's gonna like disappear from everyone's phone overnight or something. It's just gonna get buggy, it's gonna get slow, and eventually it's not gonna be able to get software updates, so it'll stop working. You know, backing up for a moment here though, you know, never before has the Supreme Court

taken on a case over the US government trying to shut down a massive social media platform. So this is entering some uncharted territory and, you know, President-elect Donald Trump's administration is watching very closely. And where does Trump stand on this? Trump has given mixed signals on TikTok. He said he wanted to save the app and that he credits it with helping young voters turn out for him.

But just this weekend, he said on NBC's Meet the Press, if he will rescue the app, and he gave kind of an unclear wishy washy answer. Remember, Trump tried to ban TikTok during his first term and was not successful. No matter what, the court decides the Trump administration has a ton of power here.

If the Supreme Court upholds his law, his administration will be tasked with interpreting and enforcing it. So if TikTok loses at the Supreme Court, they're hoping Trump will just step in and rescue the app anyway. That is NPR's Bobby Allen. Bobby, thank you. Thanks, Michelle. There's already a lot changing in Syria now that dictator Bashar al-Assad is gone. For one thing, people can move. Refugees are coming home. Syrians who were stuck on one

side or another in the many battle lines can cross them for the first time in years. And journalists can get a fuller look at a country in transition. And here's Jane Araf, has been traveling the country and she's with us on the line now from Damascus. Good morning, Jane. Good morning, Michelle. So as we said, you've been traveling around Syria this past week. Tell us some of what you found.

Yeah, well, Damascus itself, of course, has changed quite dramatically. I mean, just a couple of minutes ago, there were a bunch of sixth graders who are jumping up and down on a bronze statue of toppled leader Bashar al-Assad's head. We wanted to go further afield though so we traveled through Syrian's southern desert to a place I have been trying to get to for years. It's the Rukban camp and it's in this remote corner of the desert where people who are fleeing ISIS thought that they could go across to Jordan and then were trapped there. 7,000 people cut off for nine years. There's also a U.S. base there. It's part of the anti-ISIS

coalition. They've been partnering with Syrian forces that ended up forcing the retreat of the Syrian regime. So those refugees, those refugees in their own countries now have the possibility for the first time to go home. They don't have the money and they don't have a lot of other things, but there is the possibility. And up and down that highway, we were seeing the same thing. Last night near Hamma, one of the key towns that were taken that led to the retreat of the regime, there was a truck stop full of families traveling home. Inside there were Syrians crowding a sweet counter.

I spoke with one young mother who was going home for the first time in 13 years. She was going to introduce her kids to their grandparents. There have obviously been a lot of tragedies, a lot of deaths, but for the people who are able to reunite with their families, all of that time makes it somewhat sweeter. Now you've also been following what's happening with Syrian Kurdish forces and Syrian Arab forces. The U.S. has been trying to broker a truce there. What did you find out about this? Yesterday at the Euphrates River, about a six-hour drive from Damascus, we were at one of the dividing lines between U.S.-backed Kurdish-led forces and Turkish-backed fighters who played a big role in the retreat of the regime here.

And that road from Damascus to the Euphrates River kind of mirrors the fall of regime forces. There were regime tanks on the road being stripped, fuel being siphoned by poor people, defaced posters of the regime, trucks with people heading home. But then when we got closer to Manbij, where Syrian Arab coalition fighters were recently in control, there was kind of a vacuum there, and people were afraid.

We drove further along to near the actual front line, and we spoke to a commander of one of the factions from Lua al-Shamal. Salam alaikum. Salam alaikum. Marham alaikum. He asked us to call him Abu Suleiman. commander of one of the factions from Lua al-Shaman. He asked us to call him Abu Suleiman. He's the military commander for the operations room. He told us that the Kurdish-led forces, who he called terrorists, had broken the ceasefire.

That's a ceasefire that's been negotiated by the U.S. But it is one of those fault lines and one of the areas of concern for the US and others as to what happens in this new Syria. No, conflict still simmering, it seems like. Absolutely. That is NPR's Jane Araf, talking with us from Damascus. Jane, thank you. Thank you. Verdicts this morning have been handed down in a high-profile rape trial in the south

of France. Fifty-one men were on trial for raping a woman while she was drugged and unconscious over a period of years. Her husband was accused of orchestrating this abuse. The trial has shocked France and drawn the world's attention. And here's Eleanor Beardsley is at the courthouse now. We're going to go to her in Avignon. Eleanor, good morning. Good morning, Michelle.

Could you just start by reminding us who the accused are and of course, tell us the verdicts? Yeah, well, these are sort of the working class everyman in France, a baker, a firefighter of all ages and races. And Gisele Pellico, she's a victim, her husband was accused he drugged her and recruited all of these men on an internet site over a period of 10 years and filmed everything they did. He got the maximum sentence 20 years and all of the other 50 men were found guilty of raping Gisele Pelico. Even though many of these men claimed they did not rape her because her husband said they had permission that she was in agreement,

but there are aggravating circumstances to these rapes and the sentences are all different. So they seem to be tailored to each defendant and it's still being read out. It's very technical. So some of the other men are getting lesser sentences than what the prosecution asked for in hearing eight and ten years. And a couple of people have just come out of the courtroom shouting and angry and I'm not sure who that is and what that means but this could be very conflictual today. So tell us more.

We can hear that there's a hubbub there. Tell us about the scene there at the courthouse. Well, first of all, huge security. There's never been a trial like this in France before. I was out since 7 in the morning in front of the courthouse, and there were just hundreds of people from the media all over the world. And also, you know, supporters of Gisele Pelico, who is the victim, who had banners and placards. We watched her family come in. She has three grown children, and they've all testified that this has destroyed their lives. They've all disowned their father and also the men who you know who have now been convicted because nobody was acquitted. They came in you know wearing hoodies and COVID masks and usually accompanied by a

family member, a wife, because these guys are inserted into society. They have family some of them and they were all carrying duffel bags because they are expecting to go straight to prison now from here. Say more if you would about the impact of this trial, which is, as Steve pointed out, has just, I mean, it's shaken the country to its core, and I mean, it's attracted attention all over the world. Absolutely. You know, it has every way, it's started a huge conversation about this, you know,

his friends, this patriarchal society and the violence against women. Many people talk about there's a rape culture here, meaning that serious crimes and also street harassment is not taken seriously enough. And the fact that these men said, well, they didn't rape her, but that's where there was video evidence. And so as painful and sordid as this trial was

and to hear it and they've seen these videos, it's having a positive impact, say activists, because it's a wake up moment. People are taking it seriously. There might be more better education now, law enforcement. And French men have been tuned in. Many prominent men have spoken out and said they were ashamed, because these guys are not psychotic criminals. They're average men, and they're questioning the macho society.

Before we let you go, tell us a bit more about the victim or the survivor, I think we should say. Giselle Pellicot. Well, we can call her a hero, too, because she's a petite septuagenarian, and her face is known everywhere in France. She waved her right to anonymity, insisted this trial be open to the public and the media, and she's changed everything people said.

She has made shame swap sides from the victims to the rapists. They say she's succeeded in doing that. That is Eleanor Beardsley, and here's Eleanor Beardsley and Alvin-Eleanor. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. And that's up first per Thursday, December 19th. I'm Michelle Martin.

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