Up First from NPR - The Horror of Codependency

Episode Date: August 17, 2025

Maintaining a long-term romantic relationship is hard work. There are good times and there are bad and sometimes couples just grow apart over time. But in the new horror movie Together, growing apart is not an option for Millie and Tim. Starring real-life couple Alison Brie and Dave Franco, Together explores the idea of codependency in a horrific way as the couple becomes literally attached to each other. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is the Sunday story. Being in a long-term relationship can be tough. I mean, you know, let me tell you, I still got some of the scars. You know, you grow together, you grow apart, you fight, you make up. And over time, it can really become difficult to know who you are outside of that partnership. It's that kind of stickiness that's at the heart of a new horror film starring real-life married couple, Allison Brie, and Dave Franco. Brie plays Millie, a schoolteacher, and Franco plays Tim,

a middle-aged wannabe indie rocker. The couple are on the verge of breaking up and questioning what the relationship is really about. You've never made me feel unsure before. Unsure of what? if we love each other or if we're just used to each other? The movie explores this question of codependency in a very horrific way as the couple becomes literally attached to each other.

Allison and Dave joined me to talk about the film and why horror works and get at deeper truths about relationships. To get started, I asked Allison to describe what was going on with Millie and Tim at the beginning of the movie. Well, I think they are not in a good place. They've been together over a decade, but they don't quite seem to be on the same page in terms of the next steps in their relationship.

I play Millie. I think Millie really is eager for their lives to move forward and wants to take the next step, possibly into getting married. She's gotten a new job that's going to move them away from the city and away from their friends. And, you know, Millie is sort of just starting to question whether they really love each other or whether they've just been together so long that they're comfortable with one another and afraid to separate. And I play Tim and Tim is dealing with some serious trauma, some stuff that happened to his parents and is making it so that it's hard for him to fully commit to Millie. You know, he thinks that if he does just completely give himself over,

he might lose his own personal identity. Well, also, you know, Tim ain't got no job, really. He ain't making no money. Like, that he doesn't, I mean. I was making him sound way better than he actually is. You made himself really. I was making him, I was making the audience sympathize for Tim. He has, like, no money.

He has no job. Like, well, he's, like, making music. But he can cook. He can cook. He can cook. That's what he can do. That's one thing. It's not nothing. It's not nothing. But yes, Tim, Tim is a, he's a failed musician. He did have fame at one point.

Fame, would we call it? Fame, listen. He had some popularity. Yes, there you go. There you go. And he's trying to recapture that, but it's not happening. I'm going to let you guys talk about Tim from now on. I'm just saying there were some. some issues with this relationship, you know, there was some issues.

And so, you know, but then Millie and Tim, they're on this hike and they decide to wait out a storm overnight in a cave, which is crazy to me. I'm not just staying in a cave, but it's okay. To each their own. To each their own, to each their own. But then when they wake up, what is it? Mildew or something. Ow, I was that hard.

I know. What do you want to do with three-legged race? Sorry. Slow, slow. Their legs are like stuck together. And from this point on, things get weird. They get weird. To put in mildly.

Yeah, legs stuck together is just a little toe dip for what happens with the rest of this film. I mean, but this movie, it is an exploration kind of of like the dark side of a long-term relationship. Would you say that? Maybe the horror of a long-term relationship, even though they can also be amazing, right? Definitely. It's an exploration of fears of monogamy and toxic codependency. And, you know, that thing that it can either sound romantic or it can sound terrifying, where you go like, I don't know where I end and they begin. You know, there is this idea of losing oneself in a relationship and sometimes, yeah, it's beautiful.

I becomes we, like you have a language, you have inside jokes together, you like the same things. But I certainly think there are a lot of people who are scared about losing their identity in a relationship or certain people alienate themselves, stop hanging out with their friends, you know, build their whole life around their partner. And I see how that could be a scary idea. It's been interesting because Allison and I have been together for 13 and a half years and this is our fifth collaboration. I'm sure a lot of people would consider us very codependent and they probably wouldn't be wrong. Healthy in a healthy way. That's where I was going with this. The movie isn't necessarily saying codependency is good or bad. I think different audience members will take

different things from it. And, you know, we've talked to single people who have watched this film and they say this is a very strong argument for being single. And then, you know, we've talked to a couple who saw the film and the week leading up to the screening, they were in a fight. And then they said the film actually helped them make up. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, I wanted to say that because you guys, you said you've been together 13 and a half years. You've been married since 2017. Like, what was you? wasn't about this movie that made you want to take on the leading roles

because as a couple because it's kind of like looking at this coupledom and maybe not the most positive way. Sure. I mean, I think if we didn't feel like we had

a healthy relationship and feel good about our relationship, we would never have signed on to play these characters. Even going into this process, though, with a healthy relationship, But we also said, like, this could end in divorce or will be more codependent than ever. And luckily, it's the latter. Yeah.

I mean, because, like, did this movie make you think or rethink any aspects of your own relationship or start any conversations between you two about, like, what it means to be together and have an identity and what that means to be, you know, the better half, but then also be your own person? Yeah, I do think, I mean, a couple things. things. This movie, these characters in the film are terrible at communication. So I think in playing these roles, it was a lot of checking in and feeling grateful for the good parts of our relationship and like, oh, good, we do communicate, we talk about our issues. And that's a good thing. And it certainly made us evaluate, like Dave's saying, we came out of it more codependent

than ever. But also, that is true. That is true. But I would also say, you know, we're actors so much of the time when we're not working together, we're in different cities or even different countries for months at a time. So it's sort of, we realized that our job is what's keeping our codependency in check because we do get the time to miss each other. You know, we get time to really be independent and go work with other people. And then, you know, we get to come back together. And what was it like kind of being together? fuse together for a lot of the movie, like as just the physical process of it.

And I would imagine the fact that you're a couple, that can be a positive thing, but it could also be a negative thing because then it's like maybe if y'all was arguing before, y'all had something going on, and now you've got to sit there and look in their face all day. It's like, this is a lot. It was definitely a positive thing that we were married.

Yes. But it was very strange. I mean, we were literally attached to each other with prosthetics some days for 10 hours. Okay, that's a lot for Evac. Yeah. And, you know, when you think about that, it's like, we're going to the bathroom together. That is going to happen when you're attached to someone for 10 hours. And I remember there was a moment when Allison was peeing and I was standing over her, you know, touching her, looking into her eyes and thinking we could not have made this with anyone else.

that's so loving though like y'all are still there so y'all really are like the positive view of long-term relationship oh big time oh definitely oh definitely it was fun honestly we got to work a lot with practical effects on this movie which really

helped I think the performance you know we had something to react off of and like in that example that Dave's giving I mean our arms were attached truly to the point I mean, we couldn't separate even millimeters from one another without tearing this prosthetic. And I do just feel like that claustrophobia sort of enhanced what the characters were going through. So that was helpful.

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you step back, obviously not looking at your own relationship, but when you look at this movie, did it make you rethink how long-term relationships can shape a person? for good or bad. Yeah, I mean, just thinking about our own, again, like, we're so lucky to say this, but we're in such a great place after such a long time where I think about how Allison has changed me for the better.

I think she really brings me out of my shell. Like, I think I'm inherently a little bit more shy than her. She's very outgoing, and I think what's been amazing work-wise is we really are each other's, biggest fans, and we encourage each other to take really big risks. And so in the last handful of years, we've both been doing a lot more behind the camera in terms of writing, producing, and directing. And I feel like if I didn't have her support, I just wouldn't be as confident to go into all of that. Yeah, I feel the same. I'm endlessly inspired by Dave. I think the hope

in a long-term relationship, and I do feel like we talk about this a lot, is that you grow together, right? You're always going to be kind of growing and changing and evolving as a person in your life. And so to do it in a couple, that's the hardest part, right? It's kind of hoping that you grow in the same direction. And just to quickly kind of bring it back to this movie, like, you know, this was a, this is a small movie. And we did it in 21 days. We killed ourselves. We put everything into this one.

And we're able to do it together. Like, this is insane. It's so rare. Exactly. And so, like, as crazy as this press store has been, like, we're relishing in it and just kind of trying to enjoy every moment because it is so rare. You're listening to The Sunday Story. Stay with us. We're back with the Sunday story. I'm talking with Alison Brie and Dave Franco about their new movie together. You know, the way you guys are talking, you're all. I almost think this is a rom-com, you know what I'm saying?

You know, there's elements. It is romantic. They are funny. It's romantic. It's funny. It's romantic. And so you say you've gotten different reactions from people who are couples or single. Where do you guys land on this?

Is this a scary, horrible, not horrible. When I say horrible, I mean, horror. Horrifying. Horrifying. And I love horror. That's my favorite. favorite genre. Oh, nice. It is. Oh, yeah, it's my favorite. So, like, where do you land on this? Is this, like, a scary, horrifying proposition in the movie, or is this something where you're like, oh, this also

shows the power of love? Like, where do you land on it? What was the reactions that you heard after our premiere? What did those two people say? Oh, yeah. Two people came up to me, and one of them says, you know, at the end of this movie, I was sobbing. And I said, why? And she said, because I want a love like that. And the man she was with goes, I thought it was horrifying. So I don't know. They might have just been friends. I'm like, I don't know if you guys are anything up together.

But we think maybe this is kind of coming from where we're at in our own relationship, but we think the movie is optimistic. We, we think it's an optimistic thing. Well, look, it's sort of like if this couple hadn't gone through this crazy thing, this transformation, if they had not encountered this force, they probably would have split up. It's like in watching,

yeah, so it's sort of like in watching them have to navigate the challenges of this film, it actually brings them closer together, even just on an emotional level, watching them work together, they realize how great they can be together, and that's where the romance comes from. Yes. I do

want to ask, you know, if you obviously if you guys were to be fused to anyone you would want to be fused to each other but like is there like is there a way that you felt like was better like the arm or the let like is there in terms of where we would want to be connected yeah where would you want to be connected we've talked about it I feel like we're committing to the elbow the elbow that gives you the most flexibility yeah I don't think it would really change that much in our lives that's true

Yeah, okay, yeah. Well, look, I mean, I have to say, I've talked to you guys and you have really reestablished my belief in love. All right. I've come out of this with a new appreciation for love. This is really incredible and a different view on the movie, which I did think was, like, scary and like, oh, my goodness. And that's okay, too. Well, this is the type of movie. You know, we like to say it's a gateway horror movie because horror fans will love it.

It has some great, genuine scares. Yes. But people who are averse to horror, like, there's a lot of people out there who think they don't like horror at all. Yes. This is the movie for them because it is romantic. We've talked a lot about that. But also, it has a good sense of humor. It does.

Yeah, there's something light, like, at the end of the day, it's just fun and entertaining. It's fun to watch with an audience. It's like one of those great, we've been lucky. enough to get to sit in and watch the movie with audiences at Sundance and South by Southwest and recently at our premiere. And every time it's so fun, people are like interacting with the movie. People are screaming. People are covering their eyes, laughing. So it's really fun for anyone. That's Alison Brie and Dave Franco, who star in the new movie Together Out Now. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having us.

This episode of The Sunday Story was produced by Andrew Mambo and edited by Jenny Schmidt. It was engineered by Co. Takasugi Chernivan. The original interview was produced by Elena Tauric and edited by Ed McNulty. The Sunday Story team also includes Justine Yan and Leanna Simstrom. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. I'm Aisha Roscoe. Up first we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks?

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