Up First from NPR - The Sunday Story: The love that shaped Whoopi Goldberg

Episode Date: July 14, 2024

Whoopi Goldberg is an icon of entertainment. She's played many roles in Hollywood, and she has perhaps been most inspirational for the way she has shown up as herself. But before the acclaim, Whoopi Goldberg was known as Caryn Johnson and in her own words, "A little bit different.. and out there."In her new memoir, "Bits and Pieces," she dives into her upbringing with her mother, Emma, and brother, Clyde, and how her relationships with them shaped her sense of herself. In this episode of The Sunday Story, Goldberg sits down with host Ayesha Rascoe to talk about the previously untold stories that made her who she is today. They discuss family, love, and coping with loss.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to The Sunday Story. I'm Aisha Roscoe. Whoopi Goldberg lives her life loudly and unapologetically. From the color purple. I'm poor. Black. I may even be ugly. But dear God, I'm here. I'm here. To The View. This is The View With Whoopi

It all starts now She's a familiar face in entertainment Her work has been widely acclaimed She's received all the top awards Winning Hollywood's equivalent to the Triple Crown And EGOT Claiming an Emmy, a Grammy, a Tony, and an Oscar. And the Oscar goes to... Grammy goes to... And the winner is Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopi Goldberg.

Whoopi Goldberg. Beyond movies and TV, Whoopi has also worked with UNICEF as an advocate for children's health globally and founded a medical marijuana company centered on women's well-being. Rounding out her renaissance woman characteristics, she's also an author. She's published children's stories and written about her own path, including her 1997 book entitled Book. But up until now, she hadn't shared the details of what her family life was like when she was growing up. In Whoopi's new memoir, Bits and Pieces, we get to know her mother, Emma Johnson, and her brother, Clyde Johnson. They both knew Whoopi as Karen Johnson, her given name.

They were a close-knit family of three that Whoopi has said shaped who she is today. Someone who is unafraid to go after what she wants and deserves. The memoir is about love, grief, and coping with losing those who mean the world to you. Today on The Sunday Story, Whoopi Goldberg. Stay with us. This message comes from NPR sponsor Organic Valley, a co-op of small organic family farms. Farmer Tyler Webb shares why caring for his land has always been a priority. I'd like to contribute to my community an array of ecosystem services beyond just milk. Building topsoil and holding on to water and supporting wildlife to build that resilience that will support generations to come. Discover Organic Valley Dairy at ov.coop slash ethically sourced. Now, our change will honor 100 years of the Royal Canadian Air Force and their dedicated service to communities at home and abroad.

From the skies to our change, this $2 commemorative circulation coin marks their storied past and promising future. Find the limited edition Royal Canadian Air Force $2 coin today. This message comes from Slow Burn, the rise of Fox News, Slate's podcast that explores how a cable news channel became a cultural and political force, and how a whole bunch of people rose up to try and stop it. Follow wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome back to The Sunday Story. I'm joined now by Whoopi Goldberg from our New York studios. Whoopi, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm so honored to have you here. I just got to get that out the way. And I really, this book touched me so much. So I'm so glad to talk to you about it. Thank you, I. Yeah. I feel like I call you I. I've had friends call me I. You can definitely call me I.

Cool, cool. Love it. So you've written memoirs before, books about your own life, and typically performers focus kind of on themselves. Why did you want to tell your story through the lens of your relationships with your mother and brother this time around? Well, you know, I just thought I have to figure out a way to hold on to what I remember, because for me, having lost both of them now, they were the people who remembered. And I was starting to lose that ability. And I wasn't losing my ability to remember them, but just it felt like I couldn't remember dates of things or when things happened. It just was weird. So I thought, well, let me just get this done

because I always knew I'd have to write a book about my family because nobody knows anything about them. And I've never really said anything in depth about my origin story as it were. Do you look at this book now as a holder of these memories for you now? Like this is the holder now that your mother and brother are no longer here physically? No, this book for me is an homage. It's an homage to the two of them, because I would not be who I am without them. I always understood that I would have to work hard, you know, because I'm just, I'm a little bit different. I'm a little bit out there. And as it turns out, and I don't know if this will come as a shock to you, Aisha, but I'm also black. So there were a lot of things that, you know, that our parents would say to us about how we moved around in the world. And so I wanted people to know that I come from very humble, great stock. And my mother, love me or hate me, my mother gave me everything I needed

to move around in the world. And my brother taught me how to be insanely strong. So, you know, I thought people should know that I am well equipped to live this life. Talk to me about that, because I feel like in reading this book, I did get a better understanding of, you know, the icon that you are. Because part of when I think of Whoopi Goldberg is that, first of all, there's no one else like you in Hollywood. You have been yourself. You have been a Black woman. You have been a woman with your natural hair before everybody was into natural hair. You have charted your own path in a way that I think you don't see in Hollywood. And it seems like so much of that permission to be yourself came from your mother,

who really, in a very strong way, said you can be yourself. You don't have to be like anyone else, and would challenge you to be true to you. Listen, I was insanely lucky. I was really lucky that I was my mother's child, because I was the correct child for her to have, both my brother and I. We were just odd. We liked different stuff. We were open to many, many things. You grow up here in New York City. In those days, so much of it was free. You could go into a museum. You could go into a concert in the park. You had access to lots of things. And so my mother's attitude was, you're in a place where you can do and see just about anything. So what do you want to do? Who are you? Who do you think

you are? And if that's who you think you are and you are comfortable with the fact that not everybody's going to get you or like you and people are going to try to talk you into trying to be more like them. She was really like, listen, it's very simple. If you can be yourself, be yourself. If you need to be, you know, something different, then you can do that. But you got to be able to explain why, you know. So I just always felt like I was quite lucky to have her. And that was a different type of parenting style because so much of parenting can be about control, right? She really gave you a freedom that it seems like a lot of people didn't have, especially at that point. Well, I think my mother figured out early on that,

you know, we don't have our children forever. So we have to make them really adaptable to the world they're in and teach them how to be themselves because you're not going to always be there for them. I don't know if all parents can do this, but my mom was the person who said, you have to know how to be in the world because I'm not going to always be here. One way that you always stood out was your attitude towards beauty standards. And that comes up a lot in Hollywood because, you know, you look and there's a certain standard or this is what you're supposed to be. Then you're supposed to be this or that. And there's a section in your book that I'd like you to read where you heard your mother talking about your looks.

Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Okay. One afternoon, my mother was talking to a group of women. I was nearby and I heard one of the ladies say, you know, Karen's no beauty. She's going to have to find a job and work. I think it probably hurt my mother more than it hurt me because she grew up not being the shiniest bulb on the chandelier. She looked just like me. Her cousin Arlene always seemed to get the attention for her beauty. My mother responded to it in a completely even and calm tone. Karen knows that. She knows she doesn't look like other girls. Karen looks like herself. Whatever she decides she wants to do, she already knows she needs to be able to support herself and get by. I appreciated that my mother told me the truth. I

still make my share of choices that don't work out early on, but I never got in a position where I couldn't change my life because I was dependent on another person to support me. I knew I'd be able to figure it out. That stood out to me as a mother. I'm a mother myself. And I would have been like, my baby beautiful. And your baby is beautiful. She is beautiful. But your mother said something that I think is so important.

She said she looks like herself. Yeah. And, like, so much of the time we hear from, you know, in memoirs or people talking about their mothers, they'll say that my mother pressured me to be thin and have straight hair and this and that. But it seems like your mother did the opposite, and she let you define your own standard of beauty. Well, yeah. I mean, let's face it. You know, the standard of beauty when I, yeah. I mean, let's face it. You know, the standard of

beauty when I was a kid didn't include me. So, you know, I knew I was never going to live up to anybody's standard of beauty except my own. And I've never had any trouble, you know. So I'm not, you know, so I figure I'm doing something right. You know, I'm clean. I'm fun. I'm cute as hell right now. You're listening to The Sunday Story. We'll be right back. Studies have shown that elections can spike feelings of stress and anxiety. Thank you. Step back from the news of the day, at least before you plunge back in tomorrow. New episodes every week on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

Welcome back to the Sunday Story. I'm speaking with the renowned Whoopi Goldberg about her memoir, Bits and Pieces, where she shares stories about her mother and brother. Talk to me about your brother, Clyde, who was also your protector. Yeah. And then there's a very, you know, not to give too much away, but after his passing away, you talk about all these women that showed up at all his memorial services. We had, like, four different services for him

because my brother loved to travel. So when he passed, I did a memorial in Berkeley. I did a memorial in L.A. I did a memorial in New York. And then I did a memorial just in general. When I tell you that two or three women per memorial, okay, per memorial would come up and say, oh, I don't, I don't know if you know, Clyde and I were, we were going to move in together. And it's like, oh, cool, cool. Okay. And, and then, you know, 12 minutes later, here's another one saying, oh,

I don't know if you knew, but Clyde and I were together. And I'm looking at the other lady thinking, does she know about you? But nobody knew about each other. About each other, yeah. I'm telling you, he was, not only was he remarkable, he's a really great man. You know, he's the standard of man that you want. You want somebody who can hear you. You want somebody who has a sense of humor, who is not hung up on what you're not. And my brother, I realized as we went through all these ladies, because they were all different, all different colors, all different sizes, all different types.

And they all loved him. And he loved each and every one of them. And he wasn't going to move in with anybody. But I understood something which I hadn't really put together. And that is the people who love you, love you. And they love you for their reasons. You know, losing him was tough. Yeah.

Because I always thought that, I don't know why, but I kind of thought, well, we're either never going to go or it's going to be a while before he goes. And so I wasn't anticipating his death. Well, in the book, you give advice to readers about how to deal with grief. And I think it is so important. You know, you point out that if someone hasn't lost their mother, you know, I haven't lost my mother, you know, they're not going to know how to talk to you about that. But you also give advice. And I noticed that the advice that you were giving was some of it, it was your mother's advice.

Yes. When you talked about how, you know, if you're going to have a day and it's going to be rough, pull down the shades, fall out on the chair, make it really dramatic. Do you feel like you kind of, in some ways, you've become like your mother. That's what you're carrying on from her. She's still giving you advice. Well, I don't know if I've become like my mother, but I am adjacent. You know what I mean? Because I am still, I'm me. Yeah, yeah.

But her thought patterns make sense to me. Like, she was a wonderful head start teacher. And one of the things that was fun for me over the years was to watch her in class because my mother always wanted children to feel like there was no question they could not ask. And so sometimes children don't understand things like death. So at Halloween, my mother, they got a giant pumpkin and all the kids helped to carve it and it was wonderful. And then Halloween came and everybody dressed up and

then it wasn't Halloween anymore and the pumpkin was still there. Two weeks later, it still wasn't Halloween anymore, and it wasn't going to be Halloween again until next year, but the pumpkin was still there. And I would see parents come in and see the pumpkin. And, you know, they're not cute, pumpkins, when they're starting to turn green and into mush. And someone finally said to my mother, are you going to get rid of this, this pumpkin? Why have you left it here like this? And my mother said, because kids need to know that this, what's happening to this pumpkin, happens to everyone. So they don't need to be afraid of this. This is the natural order of things. And for me, that was huge because I realized that without scaring children, she allowed them to talk about what happens. And does this happen to people?

Yes, it also happens to people. So yeah, but you don't have to be afraid of it. And I love that side of her that said, you need not be afraid. I got you by the hand. I would like to be more like her, but I think I'm adjacent to her. You were very frank in this book, which a lot of people, I think it's very difficult to do, about how as a mother yourself, your daughter had some anger with you because you had to work a lot. You weren't always there physically because you were working to support her. I wondered, like, did writing this book, the homage to your mother in particular, did it make you think about your motherhood journey in a different way? Girl, me and my kid talk about me and our relationship all the time. What I realized is that I had done to her the same thing, except in a different way. I chose to go to work because I was offered

this amazing life on a silver platter. My mom had a nervous breakdown and ended up in the hospital for two years, and that's why I didn't see her, you know. So when I realized that I had, in a funny way, sort of echoed what happened to me, I said to my kid, I am so sorry I did that. And my daughter, God bless her, she said, listen, you went to work for us. You went to work for us. Yeah, I was mad for a little while, but mostly because people would come up and move me out of the way when we were walking down the street or we were at dinner. I said, yeah, I know that used to really irritate you. And she said, but then you'd yell at people and tell them to stop doing it. And then I felt better. But, you know, my daughter turned out to be a rather wonderful parent herself. She got a lot of the good time with my mom.

Because when I went away to do the movies, my mom lived in this compound with us. And so they were together. And my mother, when I finally really started to make some money, I said, what do you want? And she said, well, I really only want a couple of things. She said, I want a beaver bowler hat. I had to look that up. Yeah. And it must have the brush with it. She was like adamant.

It has to have the brush with it. I said, okay. She said she wanted an ermine coat. And she wanted to be able to go around the world as often as she wanted to until she got tired. And she was able to do that as well. Now, what I can tell you is that the beaver bowler hat, you can see there are pictures online, I think, when we did the Gap ad of my mother, my daughter, and my granddaughter. So she's wearing her beaver bowler hat in that picture. The ermine coat she wanted because she laid it on her bed.

And when she was annoyed with something, she would take it off the bed and she'd drag it down the stairs like a movie star. She never wore it outside. She just dragged it. That sounds so grand, though. That's so grand. That's what she wanted. That's what she wanted. Because I think my mother, in her deepest soul,

didn't realize that she, in fact, was a grand dame. You know? Because people never talk about black women as grand dames. But my mother was a grand dame. And she went around the world until she got tired. You know? And every time I say it, it tickles me. It just tickles me.

Because that's all she wanted. That was all she wanted. Well, I want to just end things out. Because you say such beautiful remarks at the end about grief and there may be someone may have had this loss. And I guess what would you say to them? We mostly mourn our loss. It's a huge one. It's a huge one. It's the first person who gazed at you. This is my recommendation. Celebrate the mother you had celebrate her take yourself out if you take yourself to a restaurant have a table set for two have it set for your your mom and have

one set for you and just gaze as you eat gaze and you'll start to find that you're chuckling. You'll remember stuff, and it will help you know that they are here. They're just not conveniently here. That's

Whoopi Goldberg, the icon, the EGOT, all of that. Her new memoir is Bits and Pieces. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. I was terrific talking to you. That was Whoopi Goldberg.

You can find her book, Bits and Pieces, wherever books are sold. This episode was produced by Hazel Feldstein and edited by Jenny Schmidt, Abby Wendell, and Liana Simstrom. Our engineer was Gilly Moon. Emily Bogle is our visuals editor. The Sunday story team includes Justine Yan and Andrew Mambo. Irene Noguchi is our executive producer. I'm Aisha Roscoe. Up first is Back Tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.