Up First from NPR - U.S. Missile Policy for Ukraine; UAW Strike Anniversary; Civilian Space Tourism

Episode Date: September 14, 2024

Ukraine has been asking for permission to use Western-supplied long-range missiles to strike deep within Russian territory. The Biden administration has not given Ukraine the green light on that — we'll look at what that means in this protracted conflict. Also, it's been a year since a massive and coordinated United Auto Workers Strike secured better pay for workers - but a year on, workers are worried about job security. Plus, a new era in space tourism, with a civilian taking a space walk. He didn't have any NASA astronaut training, but we'll tell you what he DID have.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Ukraine wants to be able to use long-range missiles inside Russia, and some U.S. allies agree. But the Biden administration hasn't given the green light for that. At least not yet. I'm Scott Simon. I'm Ayesha Roscoe, and this is Up First from NPR News. So what is the U.S.'s policy on Ukraine's use of long-range missiles inside Russia? We'll break it down for you. Plus, it's been a year since the United Auto Workers strike made waves. We'll tell you how auto workers feel now.

And a big moment for space tourism. A civilian suited up and went for a heck of a ride. You don't need to be a NASA-trained astronaut now, but there is something you will need. So stay with us. We have the news you need to start your weekend. Once again, we find ourselves in an unprecedented election. And with all that's happening in the lead-up to the big day, a weekly podcast just won't cut it. Get a better grasp of where we stand as a nation every weekday on the NPR Politics Podcast.

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Good to be with you, Scott. What's been the hesitation? In a word, escalation, concern about Russian escalation. Putin said this week such an approval of long-range missiles inside Russia will show NATO is at war with Russia. Now, there's no question the White House has been worried about escalation from the start of the war two and a half years ago. And there's always concern that Russia could possibly use nuclear weapons. We've heard that repeatedly.

Most analysts say that's really highly unlikely. But Putin has often made threats of escalation after pretty much every weapon system sent to Ukraine by the West, Patriot missiles, F-16s, tanks, and so forth. But critics say the Biden administration has been too slow in providing Ukraine with the necessary tools, too incremental, and too concerned about escalation. Now, Scott, what's changed recently is in making approval of long-range missiles more likely is the fact that Iran has just agreed to send hundreds of missiles to Russia, and also they have trained Russian military personnel in Iran. British Foreign Secretary David Lammy said that fact has, quote, changed the debate. I mean, Britain has its own long-range missiles. Couldn't they just let Ukraine use theirs?

Well, yeah, it's a good point. They have what's called a storm shadow, which can travel about 155 miles and could be used to hit those targets inside Russia. The Brits have sent a number of them to Ukraine, but that missile has American components. So they need the U.S. to sign off on those missiles to use inside Russia. The same with the French. They have a similar missile. It's called the Sc.S. to sign off on those missiles to use inside Russia. The same with the French. They have a similar missile. It's called the SCALP. So it's possible the Biden administration could give a thumbs up for the use of the British and also the French missiles. Now, the American missile, it's called the ATACOM. Scott, if the military, of course, loves acronyms,

that stands for Army Tactical Missile System. The long-range version can travel 190 miles, and that's the one the Ukrainians really want. Now, they can use those long-range ones in Crimea, of course, since it's not Russian territory, and it's been very effective at hitting a number of Russian targets. Now, Ukraine can use some of the American-made missiles to fire into Russia right now, short distances, but only for defensive purposes. Let's say Russia is shooting at Ukrainian troops with artillery or missiles. Tom, what are the implications? What are some possible consequences if these missiles were

approved for use by Ukraine? Well, defense analysts in those pushing for the use of these weapons say they could hurt Russia's ability to launch glide bombs from aircraft deep within Russia and also hit military targets like aircraft, missile launch sites, fuel, weapons depots, and really deal quite a blow to Russia. The Institute for the Study of War says there are some, get this, 250 targets inside Russia that these long-range missiles could strike. The administration says, well, listen, the Ukrainians used a lot of their long-range missiles to hit those Crimean targets. They really don't have many left. And the U.S. really can't send a lot more, the U.S. says, without hurting its own military readiness, which some say is just a weak argument because the U.S. has thousands of these long-range missiles and the allies have hundreds. And of course, Russia is hitting Ukraine hard, especially energy infrastructure as a way to increase pressure on Ukraine as winter approaches. Now, the long-range

missiles would be a way for the Ukrainians to push back against Russia, of course. Brad Bowman, a defense analyst, says striking deep inside Russia could maybe end the invasion or at least push Russian President Vladimir Putin to the negotiating table. But would they help Ukraine push back enough to win? And I pose that question because it came up at the debate on Tuesday between Donald Trump when he was asked during his debate with Vice President Kamala Harris if he wanted Ukraine to win. No, that's right. And the big thing, Scott, is how do you define winning? Remember General David Petraeus famously said during the Iraq War, tell me how this ends. U.S. military officials have said neither side can win.

Russia can't take over all of Ukraine, and Ukraine doesn't have the power, even with all this might from the West, to push all Russian forces out of its country. So what's the way ahead? No one is really answering that question, and neither side at this point, Ukraine or Russia, seems intent on negotiations anytime soon. And here at home, again, Trump, of course, has been skeptical of spending more on Ukraine. And Kamala Harris has said the U.S. must keep supporting Ukraine. I really think next year, the third anniversary of the war, based on people I've spoken with, there'll be more pressure for some type of negotiation, or at least talks, regardless of who's in the White House.

And Pierce Tom Bowman, thanks so much. You're welcome, Scott. This weekend marks the first anniversary of the United Auto Workers strike, and at the time, the wins were celebrated as a triumph. The strike, which was carried out across multiple states and lasted six weeks, was the first time the UAW went on simultaneous strikes against the big three Detroit automakers. But those autoworkers are still worried about job security. NPR's Andrea Hsu joins us now to tell us about their concerns. Good morning, Andrea. Hi, Aisha.

So take us back to that big union win last year. This was talked of as a turning point for autoworkers, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, you have to remember, since before the Great Recession, autoworkers, right? Yeah, for sure. I mean, you have to remember, since before the Great Recession, autoworkers had been losing ground. Their wages had been slashed. They lost great benefits like pensions when carmakers were in financial straits. But by the time 2023 rolled around, Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis were making record profits. Their CEOs were earning tens of millions of dollars, and the auto workers demanded that

they too be rewarded. Now, they didn't get everything they asked for, but the union hailed the new contracts as an unprecedented win, something that all workers could aspire to. So that was last year. How are workers faring now? Well, I went to Michigan and Ohio last week to talk specifically with workers at Stellantis, which Aisha, you might know as Chrysler. I know it's been a bad year for the company. Car sales are down and profits are way down. And we know layoffs are coming to a truck plant near Detroit. But then there was this bad news about Belvedere.

The union had gotten Stellantis to agree to reopen this plant in Illinois, which had been idled. That was actually a pillar of the new contract. And now the company says the reopening is on hold. So workers are feeling really uncertain about the future. I talked with Jim Cooper. He builds Jeep Wranglers in Toledo. And he said, you know, there's always been talk that if costs get too high, the jobs could be moved to Mexico. But this time he told me. This would be the first time that I've ever actually thought that that could be moved to Mexico. But this time he told me this would be the first time that I've

ever actually thought that that could be a possibility. And this is coming from someone who never used to worry about job security. So what is the union doing about all of this? Well, they're not happy. The union has called out Stellantis for trying to go back on a promise. And local unions have filed grievances over the Belvedere delay. I spoke with Romaine McKinney. He's an electrician who's president of UAW Local 869 in Warren, Michigan. I asked him whether this could lead to another strike, and here's what he said. The objective is not to go on strike. The objective is to put hardworking union members in a job that can take care of families. The best thing to do is honor the contract, and let's get this thing rolling.

But it's actually not so straightforward. The contract does have some wiggle room, allowing Stellantis to go back on investment commitments if market conditions change. The company says that they have. So as we mentioned, workers did win big raises after last year's strike. Is that making a difference for people? Well, yeah, they went from making 31 something an hour before the strike to now more than $36 an hour. And there are more raises to come. And some people have actually gotten even bigger pay bumps, like a worker I met who was a longtime temp. He got rolled over to full-time status and his wage has nearly doubled. But there is a twist here. Last year before the strike, auto workers

were getting a ton of overtime. Sometimes they were working even 60 hours a week. And that has evaporated because demand for cars is just not what it was. So Jim Cooper, the guy we heard from earlier, told me he's taking home less now than he was before the strike. And now a new strike, though not by auto workers, on Friday, workers at Boeing walked off the job. And now a new strike, though not by autoworkers. On Friday, workers at Boeing walked off the job. What's going on there? Yeah, these are 33,000 machinists who built airplanes on the West Coast. They voted down a contract that would have given them 25% raises over the next four years. They wanted even more. And Ayesha, like the autoworkers, they're angry. They feel like they've gotten the short end of the stick going back more than a decade. And like all of us, they've been hit

with inflation. I will say these workers do have some leverage. You know, for all of its problems, Boeing is still one of two companies making most of the world's airplanes. Their market share is really big. So this is really shaping up to be a tough fight. That's NPR's labor and workplace correspondent, Andrea Hsu. Andrea, thanks so much. Thanks, Ayesha. Space tourism hit a new milestone this week, a private spacewalk by civilians. A wealthy businessman along with a team, none of them NASA-trained astronauts, got to go up in a rocket. The spacewalk lasted just a few minutes, but certainly still sounds pretty eventful. And Paris Jeff Brumfield is here to tell us more.

Jeff, thanks so much for being with us. It's nice to be with you, Scott. Was this a walk and not a repair mission? That's right. This was the first sort of private spacewalk just for fun. It was by a billionaire entrepreneur named Jared Isaacman, and he went up aboard a rocket from Elon Musk's company, SpaceX. SpaceX also made the spacesuits, which had a new design that had never flown in space before. And Isaacman was

testing them out. I guess it wasn't totally for fun. Basically, the way it worked was they hooked these suits up to the white sort of umbilical cords that connected them to the spacecraft's life support systems. They pumped all the air out of the capsule and opened the hatch. And he was greeted by this fantastic view of Australia and New Zealand. He spent about 10 minutes outside and then came back in. And then he was followed by SpaceX engineer Sarah Gillis, who did basically the same thing. The long tube, the umbilical hooked up into the spacesuit sounds like a lot what they used to do in the 1960s. Yeah, that's exactly right.

You know, SpaceX tried to play up that this was a new system and it had some fancy stuff in there. There was a heads-up display on the helmet and stuff. But the truth is, this is very much the way the Gemini spacewalks went. That's because it's very hard to build spacesuits with self-contained life support systems. I think SpaceX saw this as the first step. They want to go on to build suits that can someday be used by astronauts going to Mars. And I think they had to walk before they could run, if you'll pardon the spacewalking pun there. What's the significance of civilians, too? Well, up until now, this has been only done by professional astronauts. And they don't do

spacewalks for fun. They do them very much for work and out of necessity, for example, to maintain the International Space Station. Isaacman had gone up in a space capsule once before, but he's not NASA trained. And actually, none of his crew were trained by NASA either. There were two SpaceX engineers and a former Air Force pilot who works for Isaacman in the private sector, but they hadn't even been to space. And so this is significant because spacewalking is challenging, it's dangerous, and it wasn't entirely obvious that a private crew could do it. And now they've shown they can and get this amazing view. How much did that view cost? A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. We don't know exactly how much because Isaac Moon won't say how much he's paid and neither will SpaceX. But I mean if you're on a space tourism shoestring,

you can fly to the edge of space, get a good view, a minute or two of weightlessness, and that'll run you anywhere from a little over half a million to a little over a million dollars. So even the cheap options cost more than most people's houses. So why all this talk that space tourism is coming into its own? Well, I mean, there are more ways to do space tourism than ever before. And Isaacman shows there's more stuff you can do in space than ever before. But, you know, I think it really is an open question whether it can be profitable. Most of these companies are privately held, but one called Virgin Galactic is public. And last

year it lost half a billion with a B dollars. Now, part of that is the ticket price and the fact that going to space is obviously expensive. But another issue is that most people are only going to do this once, as opposed to planes, for example, which we take all the time. So I think there has been a lot of talk about space tourism. I think this is a big step for space tourism. In the meantime, people like Isaacman are having a good time. Well, thanks.

And it's good to talk to you, Jeff Brumfield. Thanks so much. Thanks, Scott. And that's up first for Saturday, September 14th. I'm Aisha Roscoe. And I'm Scott Simon. Michael Radcliffe and Gabe O'Connor produced today's podcast. Andrew Craig directed. Our editors were Dee Parvaz, Melissa Gray, Ed McNulty, Giselle Grayson, and Andrew Sussman. Anna Glovena is our technical director with engineering support from Nisha Hynes, Arthur Laurent, and Ted Meebing. Evie Stone is our senior supervising editor, Sarah Oliver is our executive producer, and Jim Kane is our deputy

managing editor. So that's what he does. Tomorrow on the podcast, we've all heard eating less beef is better for climate, but it seems some of us may need to cut back more than others because men tend to eat more beef than women. So researchers are looking for ways to convince men to cut back on their burgers and steaks. Okay, Mr. Simon, put down the hamburger. Please, please put it down. But you know, we always have all the latest on the biggest stories of the day for you for all the news plus movies, music, even some cosmic wonder. Go to stations.npr.org to find your local NPR station so you can tune in to Week in Edition

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