Up First from NPR - White House Envoy In Moscow, MAGA Split On Gaza, Redefining The Attorney General Role

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

White House envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow to meet with Vladimir Putin, days before President Trump's deadline for Russia to end the war in Ukraine or face sanctions. Some of the President's core supporters are expressing disagreement with President Trump on issues from Gaza to Jeffrey Epstein, and the Justice Department has reportedly set up a grand jury investigation into the Obama administration's handling of the 2016 Presidential election.Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Ryland Barton, Roberta Rampton, Megan Pratz, Janaya Williams and Ally Schweitzer. It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott. And our technical director is Carleigh Strange. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

So you spilled coffee on yourself this morning? Everywhere. That's why I'm late. You're welcome that I came to work. Thank you for coming to work. I'm grateful. I spelt it all over myself, changed my clothes, all over the floor. Are you familiar with the movie airplane? No.

There's a scene in which one of the characters says, I have a drinking problem. And the drinking problem is he takes the cup and misses his mouth. Over the shoulder. I have a drinking problem, guys. White House Envoy Steve Whitkoff is in Moscow. His assignment is. to meet again with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

President Trump demanded that Russia and the war in Ukraine this week, what are the chances of that? I'm Laila Falded with Steven Skipe, and this is up first from NPR News. Some of the president's core supporters are expressing opinions independent of Trump on issues from Gaza to Jeffrey Epstein. There is a fight brewing within the party

about what a post-Trump Republican Party looks like. Also, why would the Justice Department Serp and set up a grand jury investigation of the 2016 election. A bipartisan Senate committee unanimously found Russian hackers and propagandists played a role, but President Trump and his allies allege a conspiracy. Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day. Maybe you're wondering, how do I escape quicksand, or how do I break up with my dentists?

Well, season two of NPR's, How to Do Everything podcast is launching this fall, and we will attempt to answer your questions. Sometimes we'll actually succeed. Send us your questions at how-to at npr.org. That's how-to at npr.org. White House envoy Steve Whitkoff is in Moscow, where he's expected to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin today. President Trump moved up his demand for Russia to end the war in Ukraine or face economic

penalties. His deadline is by the end of this week. Does Russia care? That's the question for NPR's Charles Mains who's on the line from Moscow. Hey there, Charles. Morning, Steve. What is Steve Whitkoff's assignment? You know, he would seem to have, this would be a last-ditch effort for Russia to come to a deal on Ukraine, at least according to Trump's calendar. This is Trump, after all, who's driving this drama, having delivered a 50-day deadline and then shrinking it to 10 amid frustration about these ongoing Russian attacks on Ukrainian cities. despite months of U.S.-led peace efforts. So the president has said, if you don't meet my deadline, I'm going to sanction you.

But I'm thinking back over the last few years, the U.S. has imposed a lot of sanctions on Russia. They do seem to have hurt Russia's economy, but didn't make it collapse and didn't deter Russia and Ukraine. So what more is President Trump threatening to do? Well, he's threatening so-called secondary sanctions and tariffs on Russian energy exports. In other words, penalizing countries like China and India that have really propped up Russia's war machine with the purchases of oil and gas. Here is Trump explaining the rationale on CNBC on Tuesday. If energy goes down low enough, Putin's going to stop killing people.

That'll be nice, even though they're his own people that are dying, him and Ukraine. But Putin will stop killing people if you get energy down another $10 a barrel. He's going to have no choice because his economy stinks. Now, Steve left unsaid here is that instability in energy markets could, of course, also boomerang back on American consumers. Now, when we talk about Steve Whitkoff, I have in my head an image of prior, visits to Moscow, where he's walking across an ornate room and shaking Putin's hand. How is their relationship been? Well, you know, they've met four times now since Trump took office. Today will be five. And he emerged from those meetings clearly optimistic that a deal between Washington and Moscow

over Ukraine is possible, albeit on terms heavily tilted in Russia's favor. You know, of course, we know that deal never happened, and that's much to Trump's frustration. And that's prompted this shift in both policy and rhetoric from Trump. You know, not only did he provide Ukraine with weapons through NATO allies in Europe. He's since made profane comments aimed at Putin and even engaged in threats of nuclear brinksmanship in kind of a sidebar spat online with Russia's former president, Dmitri Medvedev. That's even prompted Trump to order two nuclear submarines to be positioned in, quote, appropriate regions, although it's unclear if that ever happened. How is Russia responding to all of this? Well, you know, the Kremlin says it has taken note of

Trump's comments in the case of these nuclear threats. It says it says urged calm. But the point is they've stopped short of really engaging in the back and forth with Trump. And that goes for Putin as well. He said almost nothing about Trump's very personal attacks, only making last Friday some cryptic comments in a televised Q&A session of all places a monastery in northwestern Russia. Let's listen. So here Putin says rather critically that any disappointments come from inflated expectations, adding that negotiations are more effective behind closed doors than in public. You know, it's hard not to take that as a dig. at Trump because we know, unlike Putin, he's rather fond of social media. Yeah, but so they're going to have a private discussion now, Putin and Witkoff.

What are the chances of a deal? Well, Putin insists his army is the momentum on the battlefield, therefore he's given no indication he'll back down. But if that's the case, why get together? You know, it seems like both sides might be looking for some kind of compromise or face-saving gesture. Perhaps not the full peace Trump is demanding, but something just enough to keep him from fulfilling his threats come Friday.

NPRS Charles Mainz, thanks so much. Thank you. Israel's military campaign in Gaza has gone so far that even some American supporters of Israel have questioned it. And that includes some Republicans. The party has aligned itself with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Trump administration has accused universities of failing to crack down on anti-Israel protests. But now some prominent Trump supporters are questioning U.S. support for Israel. over the starvation in Gaza and people being shot trying to get aid. NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez is covering all this.

Franco, good morning. Good morning, Steve. So what exactly is happening in the Republican Party? Yeah, I mean, you're seeing a riff within the MAGA universe. I mean, a lot of it has to do with the shocking images of starving children in Gaza and Israel's resistance to allow more aid into Gaza. One of Trump's most loyal supporters, Representative Marjorie Taylor Green, last week, went so far as to call Israel's actions a, quote, genesis.

side. You also have former White House aide, Steve Bannon, warning Trump that he risks losing support of young Republicans. I should note, though, Steve, that back in 2021, Green was condemned by GOP leaders for comparing COVID safety measures to the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust. She certainly has made a variety of statements over time, but how has the president responded to this? I mean, we're seeing him tread very, very carefully on this issue. For example, after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said there was no starvation in Gaza, Trump notably broke with the prime minister, and so there clearly was. But Trump has stopped short of directly criticizing Israel for blocking aid shipments and instead is focused on blaming Hamas. Though I will add that

aid groups have told NPR that they haven't seen any evidence of Hamas systematically diverting aid. Okay. So the president is saying a variety of things too. But let's talk about the political timing here of this divide in the Magaverse. There have been a number of examples of Trump supporters seeming to contradict him. Yeah, yes, there has. In June, there was a very public riff between Trump and his supporters over his decision to launch airstrikes in Iran. And more recently, his supporters have been pressing Trump to release more information about convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. So the timing really is interesting. And I was talking with Republican strategist Alex Conan, who helped run Marker Rubio's presidential

campaign. He says we're entering the very beginning stages of the lame duck period for Trump's presidency. And he sees influencers like Bannon trying to make early moves to try and cement some of their preferred positions on the party. There is a fight brewing within the party about what a post-Trump Republican Party looks like. And I think you're seeing the Maga America First Wing trying to be clear that post-Trump, they want the Republican Party to be an America first party. And look, Steve, when it comes to Gaza, polls do show that the majority of Republicans still support Israel in the conflict. Does any of this mean the president is really in trouble. Well, I mean, anytime a president's base is divided, it's kind of awkward. I mean,

Marjorie Taylor Green and Stephen Bannon certainly reflect the views of MAGA of the movement, but the question is, can they drive the movement? Republican strategist Sean Walsh says no. I just don't think their voices are heard all that much, and even if they are heard, they're not acted upon or paid much attention to. Look, and politically, Walsh says Trump needs to be more focused on the midterms and appealing to the majority of Republicans who support Israel. And he says that is the greater priority if he hopes to keep control of the House and continue pursuing his agenda. NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Thanks as always for your insights, sir. Thank you, Steve.

Attorney General Pam Bondi has reportedly launched a grand jury investigation into the Obama administration for its handling of the decade-old probe of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. This was first reported by Fox News and confirmed by other outlets. NPR has not independently confirmed the reporting, and the Department of Justice declined to comment. But it does indicate a larger trend that blurs the lines between the Justice Department, which has historically been mostly independent and the White House.

Since we're talking about politics in the Justice Department, we brought in NPR's senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro. Domenico, good morning. Hey, good morning, Steve. Okay, so what are you hearing from the president about what's going on in the Justice Department? Well, what he's done here is pretty typical for Trump, you know, really ripping from his playbook of how to deal with something controversial by trying to deflect responsibility while at the same time weighing in on that very thing. Here he was in an interview Tuesday on CNBC. Pam is doing a great job. I have nothing to do with it. I will tell you this. They deserve it. I was happy to hear it.

I actually read it just like you did. I have nothing to do. I have nothing to do with it, he says. You know, we've heard that so many times before Trump goes on and tells everyone what he actually thinks should be done with that controversial thing, you know, whether, whatever it should be. You know, this is the dance he so often does. And it's perhaps a way for him to say what he wants his attorney general to hear, you know, that he's happy to hear that there's an investigation that his political opponents deserve it. And in other words, good job. Keep it up. Now, with that said, the president has sometimes had awkward relationships with his attorney's General. Right. And that's part of his leverage with the people that work for him. You know, he always seems one bad day, one disagreement away from employing his reality show catchphrase, you're fired. And he's had tensions with past attorneys general. You know, he's shown a willingness to fire them when they do something that he disagrees with. We know that there was tension, obviously, with Trump and his first attorney general, Jeff Sessions, the former Alabama Republican Senator. And Sessions was the first Republican senator to endorse Trump's 2016 campaign. Trump had him fired,

though, for recusing himself from overseeing the Russia investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller. There was also a very bad falling out Trump had with Bill Barr after Barr told him the 2020 election wasn't stolen. Pam Bondi, she's taken a decidedly different approach. Openly supporting the president at every turn. But in what else do you mean? Well, for one, she lavishes praise on President Trump, you know, sometimes in over-the-top ways. I mean, like she did during a cabinet meeting talking about Trump's successes in his first hundred days. Your first 100 days has far exceeded that of any other presidency in this country, ever, ever, never seen anything like it. Thank you. You know, she's really carried a lot of water for

Trump before Congress. She expressed outrage on Trump's behalf when his ethics were questioned, and it's been more than just words. You know, she's been a shield for Trump on the Epstein files, and these steps toward the Obama administration about Russia are being seen by a lot of people as a distraction from that. Bondi's really been putting into action Trump's promise of retribution. She fired January 6 prosecutors, prosecutors who worked with special counsel Jack Smith, who had brought charges against Trump, and she went after a federal judge who was seen as unfriendly toward the administration. Doesn't much sound like Bondi's pledge at her confirmation hearing to be an independent attorney general and removed politics from the Justice Department.

Independent reporting from Domenico Montanaro. Thanks so much. Thank you. And that's up first for this Wednesday, August 6th. I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm Layla Falded. There's a great way to stay connected to podcasts and news from the NPR network, the NPR app. Hear podcast suggestions based on what you like and news stories about people in your local community and around the world. Download the NPR app today. Today's up first was edited by Rylan Barton, Roberta Ramton, Megan Prattz, Jania Williams, and Ali Schweitzer.

It was produced by Zia Butch, Nia Dumas, and Gia. Christopher Thomas, who is our director. We talk when he points. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Join us tomorrow.