Upgrade - 106: I've Reached Acceptance

Episode Date: September 11, 2016

Live from Portland, Jason and Myke are joined by Stephen Hackett to cover a lot of follow-up from last week's Apple announcements. Myke reveals which iPhone 7 he's buying and considers how his technology and methods will need to change when he travels with it. Jason gives more details about how AirPods work. Finally, we talk a little bit about the impending release of iOS 10.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode number 106 today's show is brought to you by hover ring and mac weldon my name is mike hurley i am joined by mr jason snell hello jason snell hello mr mike hurley it's good to see you again and yeah we are live uh in portland we're here for the xoxo festival so because we are in person we are joined by mr stephen hackett hey boys hey stephen hackett oh we were remarking earlier this is my third live upgrade this year but the first two i was sick so i was um in the hallway yeah we banned you last time quarantined but now i'm here and we're sitting around a table together and we're going to talk about uh web objects and what

yeah okay we're going to end this episode now thanks so much for listening everyone open doc i have a lot of notes on this and i'm going to talk about the mac se mike so just sit on back and oh that happened that time didn't it so let's pull back the curtain a little bit i'm sure sure everybody remembers our iMac special. I have vivid memories of sitting, looking out of my window as you two were just talking about iMacs. It's like, well, I have nothing to say, so I'll just enjoy this. I'll just listen. Now you know how I feel when connected when we're talking about workflow.

Yep, or music streaming services. Especially that. So we are at the XOXO Festival in Portland, Oregon. This is just a really nice kind of getaway festival. It's very relaxed. So we're kind of just enjoying each other's company for a few days. We were playing some board games today. We recorded a top four special that's going to be out at some point in the next couple of days

where we just ate cereal from a cereal van. So that's XOXO. That's a thing. It's just a fun thing. I think this is the last one, but if they ever do it again and you have the means and the desire, I recommend it. So we do have some follow-up today.

This is from a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't think it was worth talking about last week, which was if you remember um we spoke about the idea of maybe doing a uh i said mike at the magazine rack for comics terrible name what do you want you got a better one the follow-up does that do you have a bell no okay uh so we were going to do a comic segment uh for some point in the future and we have a couple of suggestions uh ryan suggested hurley and the heroes because what we're going for here is alliteration i don't know if i made that clear but like you know mike at the movies right it

works casey at the cinema these things that's how they go but i like uh ian's suggestion the most where he said call mike time now I am a fan of puns in such a way that I like this. Now, Jason, I don't know what... Actually, quite a few people suggested Now, I'm willing to break the alliteration for the incredible pun that has been suggested. Jason, do you have any thoughts,

any further considerations for our segment? I'll take all of these great ideas under advisement and get back to you. We're not deciding on a name today. So if you have any other ideas, please continue to send them in with the hashtag AskUpgrade, because that's a great way for us to collect that stuff. Clearly,

Ryan and Ian, you have not won the prize naming the segment. Not yet. Jason, I understand you have some follow-up in regards to apple announcing hardware features and software features they haven't shipped yeah i i complained last time in the aftermath of the apple event about how apple it struck me how apple had a major feature tied to brand new hardware that it was essentially saying this isn't going to be ready when it ships but we'll do an update later in this case the bokeh feature the uh on the on the six on the seven plus

and i heard from a lot of people about that um who mentioned apple pay and it is accurate to say that apple pay which was a major feature adding the nfc to to the iphone 6 and it didn't work on day one and then there was a moment where they flipped the switch and turned it on i think that's a fair point i guess the difference the reason i didn't i was well aware of that fact the reason i didn't mention it is i've always kind of ascribed that to the needs of getting uh you know hooks into a new payment system up and running and working with all the payment partners and having a date where it's like as of this date apple pay is turned on more than apple's inability to ship it i don't have i think any facts to to uh to bring to bear there about that this was totally ready to go by

apple and it was just being delayed by, by the partnership. It may be that the software wasn't ready in which cases is an exact analog. Um, so that's a fair point. Um, but my, my larger point was more just that I was surprised that this is something

that Apple, um, could have prioritized potentially and shipped with the phone and i'm surprised that they didn't but for all we know something happened and somebody said this isn't good enough to ship let's not ship it well i think it's clear that this it wasn't a decision that oh we'll create this feature and we'll just ship it later like it obviously has was meant to be included the invites were all about it right about it the extra credit that way and that's the that's what was kind of rivaling me is the idea that this is

just an extra credit problem this is just a bonus it's a nice spin but it's not i don't believe it it is it is code for we couldn't get this done in time exactly uh there was one thing that i was thinking about like with the apple pay stuff i don't recall them ever saying this is coming later like this is the difference here things have been late right and like things weird things happen so like cross-platform features between ios and the mac don't work when they don't release the operating systems at the same time right right but they don't ever really mention that sort of stuff like handoff handoff was released in ios and i think mac os was like a little bit later like it is this time right well that that feature didn't work right because you couldn't do it so

there are there are things like that where the timing slip but i think this is an unprecedented thing in recent years that apple had a thing that they're talking about which isn't yet available where they did it on stage because you've got like 93 ios 93 and stuff like that but it's the idea of like hey here's this product it's gonna do this great thing later well i think i think the reason it's so strange is that it is on their flagship device yep and i would argue the biggest new thing in their flagship device this year it's the reason for two cameras right um it is definitely strange and i know going back to the apple pay

thing for a second they're still rolling banks out yeah apple pay i mean how's it been a year a year and a half later so that that's a two years yeah i think that's a um apple pay is a good point to bring up but i think until you think about differences in nuance yeah i think it is a it is a good call for like yeah this is a thing that wasn't immediately available. But the difference that we're looking at is like, this is the thing that Apple is pre-announcing because they haven't finished. Right. It's a, it's a feature versus a service.

I kind of a different, a different field, but yeah, it's, it's just really weird that, I mean, I was trying to think about an analog even like historically, and I can't really come up with one.

And I'm not trying to say what's wrong with Apple or anything like that. When I say it, it just struck me as being not something that I think I've seen Apple do where I thought it was really interesting. There's probably more to the story. Like I said, I think they didn't want to do it this way. Several people wrote in, I think quite rightly saying, the alternative is don't say that this feature exists. Bad idea. say that this feature exists but if if somebody decides not to buy the iphone 7 plus and just go goes for the 7 because they're not impressed with the 2x zoom and then two months from now you

announce that you've got this other amazing feature and they say god i would have gotten the bigger phone if i had only known this is a problem so you need to say this is our intention we are going to ship this whatever they're calling it portrait mode i think this is a landmark feature of that device right like you have to talk about this like there's no way they could have just said like hey 10.1 it's just it's not like a small enhancement it's like adding new emoji right this is like a big checklist feature that apple wants to push like this is a big thing for them and i just didn't want to let so i'm not saying oh this is the show's doom for apple or anything like that that's not the case but i i also felt like

just taking it at face value and saying oh it's extra credit it's not that important it'll be there later and won't it be cool but it's just a bonus feature and i heard some people say that i'm sorry that that that i don't buy that is spin this is a feature that is key to this product and it wasn't ready. And I think that's what really kind of made me want to talk about it a little bit more than you might expect is that, because this is important.

And I am a little surprised that they didn't have it ready. But I will say again, if somebody was brave enough, let's use courage. Too soon, dude. Too soon. To say, I know this is a banner feature feature but in the shape it's in right now we should not ship it we should say that it's coming and ship it later if that's what happened

here you you actually have to kind of give them some credit because because they could have shipped it and had it been terrible right and they and and just like fix it later and that's not what happened the traditional apple thing of holding the feature for later. That's like the traditional thing. Don't talk about anything you're doing. Just surprise everyone. I think the reason they had to talk about it is they want to move people to the Plus.

It's a more expensive device. They make more money from it. They're able to do more with it. They're able to do more with it. So I think it's part of the pitch. It's the biggest change in the whole product line right right so that's the balance right and and i agree with you jason that if if it if it is true that it wasn't as good and someone had to say hey look this needs a little more time then that's the sort of decision making at apple that i want to

see i want to see hey even though this is awkward and even though this is going to be uncomfortable from us from a press perspective it's the right thing to do for the product i can get behind that sort of decision making at the company so uh since the last episode between then and now the iphones have gone on sale so i want to talk about what we bought so i was going into this to get a matt black was what i was going to get the black the matt black black matt black matt black and jet black that's how i think of them i know it's called black i like matt matt had nothing to do with it he did everything so i was gonna get black uh 128

plus i opened the apple store app in in the uk absolutely no black of any kind black or jet black available on launch day for delivery or pickup at any size tier they had none of them so i decided i then went back to my second pick my original choice before they even showed the black which was 128 gold plus which is what i've got for pickup the reason i did this is the i don't care too much about the color because i'm putting in a case um and for me personally having the phone on day one is more important than the color when i won't even pay attention to that in a couple of weeks time but you know the the reason i wanted the black one is because the back of it was so nice but i'm never gonna see that and i really like the accents that the gold

and the rose gold have like with the on the touch id so i'm happy with the gold that's what i went with because i want to be able to get it on day one because i like to have this stuff so i can talk about it um i'm waiting until like October or November. That doesn't work for me. Like I want to be able to have the device so I'm able to come on this show and talk intelligently about it. So that's why I always go for day one.

So that's what I did. And I'm happy with my decision because I was going to get the gold anyway. I have my gold iPad Pro and I love it. I love the gold. So that's what I went for. Jason, did you buy anything? No, I am in the unique privileged position of being a reviewer yep and so that gives me the opportunity to review the phones and try

them out and then make a decision so i just decided to defer and i'll figure out which one i'm going to buy later on my guess is it will be something in black and it will be a seven with the hope that you'll get a unit at some point yeah that i'll get a review in from apple and be able to use that and write about it for the launch and then i'll have those and from those lessons decide if do i want to buy one and which one do i want to buy you mean you're on the fence about plus you're not going to go plus i mean it was something you were considering at least. Yeah, I think I mentioned this last time, but that was a long show and it was very busy. And you were very sleepy. I wasn't sleepy.

It's just been a long day. It's been a long day. What has been described about the Plus where it's just you've got the 2X camera along with the 1X camera and this bokeh feature and a bit more battery life and a bit more battery life and it's and it's enormous um but that's a good thing but like you know the size is a good thing if it's what you're looking for you have a really big ipad did you know about that i did know that yeah okay i don't put it in my pocket and a big i don't run with it you put it in a bag yeah but it's the same idea right it's like you're having the size for the utility of it that's what a lot of people like right and i am and my unusually my iphone is not really my primary device because i spend

much more time on my ipad because i um you know an independent worker or as you like to call it sometimes maybe a free agent a shut-in i was gonna say i never leave the house i rarely leave the house and so i'm leaning uh away from the plus for the same reason which is it's very large and that means like when i go running it's a much larger phone wiggling in my pocket and all of those all of those reasons for it so it's and the the camera on the seven is catching up with your optic and the camera the second camera is getting better too even though it's not going to have that now i would love that i would love that 2x, but there's not enough of those features.

If I had been blown away with, we're doing math to do amazing quality, but it really is just sort of like, look, we have two cameras, so you can go 1X and 2X. And what I said last week was, I got kind of caught up in the fantasy of what a two-camera setup could do. And the reality is, it's camera one camera two one x two x and that's cool and i like that feature but i'm not sure that is enough for me to switch to a larger phone this year so but we'll see i mean i'm my hope is that i will get both models from apple to to try and that allows me to spend some time with both sizes and uh see if my opinion's changed at all about the bigger size. Steven?

Staying in the Plus Club. This one does. So that was really a no-brainer for me. I like the size. I wanted the camera. Doing the 128 gig, I was going to go up this year from the 6S Plus. So I was happy to see that they doubled the storage tier. Yeah, me too.

So 128 gig, and'm did the regular black i was tempted by the jet black and they were still i think they were slipping by the time i got in to order you know they're now the dates are a little far out yours for day one uh but i have a regular black for day one for day one you see i think that well i think it's pretty obvious and i think apple even kind of hinted towards this, that the black models are supply constrained because they're new, they're new manufacturing processes. I think that maybe they just didn't have, they just didn't send, and it's not sending them to the UK.

And this isn't the first time. So there's another angle to that. So last week the news broke that Apple is not going to be sharing launch weekend sales numbers. And reading the tea leaves I don't think it's hard to say that their number they can sell

is going to be limited by the number they have yielded so far. Yeah, because one of the lines in that release was, we're going to sell out anyway. Right. And so if that number they've been able to produce is lower than whatever they sold last time, that number looks bad. Like they would sell out no matter what it was, but they actually can't make enough. So it's going to look like they've had a dip in sales, which right now Apple does not need that.

Right. Right. And so my guess is that maybe that is the jet black for some reason. They're harder to make. Maybe the regular black as well. Because they said that they're both like immediately. They're both new. Late October right in the uk so and this is this is normal that uh they they fill the us first sure as they would um and then the rest of the world will wait so yeah but yeah but i i got a little scared off from the jet black about talk about

micro abrasions and whatnot i do i do carry my phone without a case um so i i want to see how the jet black phones hold up and if that color sticks around and i end up liking it and they seem to wear okay then i may do it next time but for now the regular black will i mean i want to i want to play around with one like there's been a lot of people like writing their impressions and saying it's like kind of tacky feeling so grouper said yeah a couple of people have said that i know that you kind of felt like it was just... I didn't get... I picked it up and put it down. Maybe that has a

sweatier than yours. Maybe that's what it is. But I want to see. I just want to see because it's new as well. I actually want to see what it looks like. So I'm hoping they will at least have display models in a store on Friday. But yeah, I'm going to pick it up at like 8.30 in the morning on Friday. And then I'll have it all day to play around with them. We'll be able to talk about them on the show next week yeah, I'm going in to pick it up at like 8.30 in the morning on Friday.

And then I'll have it all day to play around with them. We'll be able to talk about them on the show next week, which I'm really excited about. That's great. Because I'm actually... We'll get into this a little later on, but I'm really excited for this phone. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there.

Unfortunately, and again, we're going to talk about it again today, some of the things that have been taken away from it are overshadowing the news of what it's got. That's true. That's a fair point. But the headlines and the things that have been taken away from it are overshadowing the news of what it's got. That's true. That's a fair point. But the headlines and the things that are interesting to think about is what's been taken away. And this is what...

Everything's happening, right? This is the high season in many ways for talking about what Apple's doing. And so this week we're going to get new iPhones. We're going to get a new version of iOS released to everybody. And then coming down the pipe, we've also got the new Mac OS Sierra released. So there's a lot going on. The new watches are going to come.

Hopefully new Macs. The AirPods will appear at some point. All of that is happening in the next few weeks and that's exciting. Alright, let's take a break. This week's episode is brought to you by Mac Weldon. Now I want to tell you, if you're not wearing Mack Weldon, then whatever you are wearing is not good enough right now.

Mack Weldon believes in smart design, premium fabrics, and simple shopping. It's so easy to go to their website and just take a look at all the beautiful products that they have, and you can buy them. I heard Stephen talk about this on Connected. I love this too. When you add things to your cart, there's this little bar that goes across the top, which adds all the savings.

So when I was buying some stuff, I got saving more money, and I was buying more things to save more money. But I'm happy with everything that I got. I traveled here with my Mack Weldon sweatpants, and I love those things so much. They are now my traveling pants wow see i call them pants as well it makes me feel very uncomfortable yeah i also am using my traveling pants for mac

weldon but i mean my pants my underpants uh and steven's wearing a nice mac weldon undershirt right now you can't you can't see my underpants but you can see steven's shirt so they you know like many of our sponsors do mac weldon kicked us out with some stuff uh but i am going to be buying more of their stuff because it is really good like the stuff looks good the socks are great they're long socks which is really interesting and they have great colors jason is pulling up his trousers to show me his socks i assume they're mac world and so they are that i really really like their stuff they make comfortable underwear socks shirts undershirts hoodies sweatpants i want to try one of their hoodies as well because the sweatpants are like a really interesting material

and they're super comfortable they have great pockets they have pockets with zips and considering i'm traveling i want pockets with zips for like my passport and stuff like they're absolutely fantastic they have a line of silver underwear and shirts that are naturally antimicrobial. Yeah, which means they aren't going to get all smelly. Yeah, which is brilliant. Some cool science stuff. Matt Gordon, I want you to be comfortable. If you don't like your first pair of whatever you buy, keep it, and they'll refund you.

No questions asked. They do not want your underpants sent back to them. No, they don't. You keep them. Give them to a friend. Do whatever you want. Wear them. Don't wear them.

They don't want them back. But you should because it's great. And they look good. They perform good. You're going to feel good. Listeners of this show can get 20% off at Mack Weldon. That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N.com. Just use the code UPGRADE to get 20% off at macweldon.com.

Thank you so much to Mac Weldon for their support of this show and Relay FM. I'm trying so hard. Not to say Mac Welding. Mac Weld on or Mac Welding. You know when you weld a Mac together, it's Mac Welding. You don't want to do that. No. You've probably tried it.

The aluminum gets sort of burny melty iphone upgrade program so we spoke about this last week it came to the uk and i was considering it but i took a look at it um and i i wasn't i don't know why but i wasn't that keen i took a look at how much it would cost it was like 45 pounds a month to get the iphone unlocked that i wanted and for some reason i was turned off by that now over the course of the product's life i wouldn't pay that much more because i mean it was very expensive i think my phone was over 800 pounds it was incredibly expensive but the way that i've been dealing with that in the past is by saving up through the year so i'm gonna i personally i'm gonna keep doing it that way because now

i can sell my current phone right and make a little bit of money back that's that's the math here is the iphone upgrade program you're paying essentially the cost of the phone yeah divided out over 24 months but after 12, you hand it back in. The remaining 12 months is basically bought out and you get a new phone and begin a new 24-month payoff. So if you want to buy the phone yourself like you did and you can sell it back or sell it to someone else or give it to a friend, however you want to do that

and buy a new one then, if what you're getting back after a year, let's say, is half the value of that phone, you're in. You've got exactly how much you had. And if you can sell it for more than that, which it probably is worth,

you actually will be ahead. But you have to have that money up front. Exactly. So I think that it is a good program for people that haven't saved the money because you're just doing the other way around um but because i don't want their phone back like every year they they have no interest in selling it or giving it to a friend or handing it down to a family member you don't want to do they just want to hand it in at the end of the year and get the new iphone and walk away but

from what i can see it looks like this is the first year where people have tried to renew their phones yeah it doesn't seem like it went very well no there's there's been it sounds like apple was taken by surprise because it looks what i've the reports i've been seeing the last few days are that apple realizes this is a problem and they started to change like some of the notes used to say you know sorry we can't help you now call us on september 16th or september 18th like call us after the phone's been out a couple of days and we'll try to work with you and that's changed to call our 800 number and tell them that you're with the upgrade program and we will you know we'll try to help you out because the complaints are you have to go to the store to pick it up which is for some

people is problematic because those stores can be far away um oh and you work and well all of those they're open other hours but yeah you've got your life and so you've got to get you've got to make a physical appearance at the store it sort of makes sense because you do need to turn in your old phone it is the best thing for apple to do rather than having to deal with people mailing their phones in right like i understand why they want you to go to a store but it's not always easy right um they do need to be in good condition i mean essentially what you're doing is leasing your phone here because if you bring a phone back just like if you lease a car and then you bring it back and it's got a huge dent in it they're going to charge you something for that if your phone

is not in great condition when you bring it back, you actually will be assessed an AppleCare fee. And so that'll be money out of your pocket. But that's all, probably was all specified

in the documents that people signed up front. But it's still, not everybody reads everything. On stage they just said, you'll get a new phone every year. It's raining from the sky.

Exactly. But still, it does feel strange that when a bunch of people who are the most loyal, excited iPhone buyers out there who say, yes, give me a new iPhone every year. I just want the latest iPhone. That when they went to finally do their first little swap, what they got was,

well, you're not going to be able to get one for a while because we don't have them. We don't have them in stock. So even if you come in here, you're not going to be able to do that. And on one level, I kind of understand that in terms of Apple wanting to have stock

for the people who are coming in to buy them. On another level, those are the most loyal iPhone buyers. This is the new customer, existing customer problem right you know like you have financial institutions you get a better deal if you're new and and this is like the way you start to upset people because it's really difficult to understand what's best but really they should be taking care of these people the existing customers i think because

these is if you're looking at your customer sat sat, this is where you want these people to be happy. But this is another reason why I didn't go with it because I started thinking to myself, it seems really uncertain as to how you get the phone. It's completely out of your hands. I do pick up now because I can't stand waiting for delivery. I want the idea of me getting this phone to be in my hands as much as possible.

Instead of waiting for the person to come to your house at 7 p.m. with a box. I'm just going to go, and I'm going to get it, and I know it's mine. And that's the problem with the iPhone upgrade program is you may or may not get it. Who knows when you're going to get it? I kind of expected it to work that when they announced it, the people would get their email that day that said, New iPhone is here, you got one last year, you're eligible on this date, make your

choice, and we will get you. And I know they're supply constrained, but you would think that if they're eligible on a particular date for their new iPhone, that Apple would walk them through that process immediately and say, we will get it to you or come to this store or something like that.

And I know it's a complex situation, but it does feel like maybe these people weren't taken care of as well as they should be. Maybe I walked through a land of lollipops and rainbows, but in my head, because I'd never looked into this. Is that what England's like? It's what it's like. Because I never really looked into this.

In my mind, it was always just, they just send you a new one. But the iPhones are announced and they're like, hey, your new iPhone's on the way. Like, you don't do anything. They just send you it. We'll send you a new one, swap the SIM card out, and put the old one in the box and send it back to us. That was how I thought it went. Like, that you didn't even really need to do anything and you were definitely getting one.

You subscribed to the iPhone, right? So I'm pretty sure that a lot of people thought that this was the way it was going to go. I wonder what they could do to change this. I think there will be people who leave the program. Right, again, the most enthusiastic owners are now kind of left in the cold a little bit. I do like the idea that these people, there's some sort of roped-off inventory for the upgrade program, and maybe on that day of the announcement, you people, there's some sort of roped off inventory for the upgrade program.

And maybe on that day of the announcement, you say, this is my preference. And then it gets pulled out of the main channel that the rest of us buy from. But if the yields are really low, then maybe it was just a decision that had to be made. But I would think either way, that the way this works next year will be different. I think they're going to hopefully learn their lesson. Because there are a lot of vocal people about this that just aren't happy. And these are the customers you really want to keep happy. And I understand why you would be unhappy as well.

Yeah. Because you've paid them a lot of money. And you've expected it, right? For the whole year you've been told, I can walk in and get a new iPhone and just trade this one in. And maybe that's not the case. I kind of don't understand why they can't. I mean, with the exception of the black models, like the silver and the two golds, if you have one of those, they could have just put that aside for you. They knew how many they needed to make.

I understand there's a problem with the black models because they're new and blah blah blah but you know it kind of just feels a little upsetting for these people because you know we're all excited about this stuff right like we all want to get it it's all like christmas morning you know like this is what we wait for every year is the new iphone that we get really excited about and it's a shame that there's these people that have had this expectation, have been given a check to Apple every month, and now they have to kind of wait. And like the thing that's even worse than that, let's say you're waiting for like a month or two, you're still paying the old one, right? Like you don't have a new one. And it's a shame. And I get like, again, like it's like with what we were just

talking about a moment ago, This is a new thing. They're trying to understand it, and they're trying to work forward from it, and I hope that we're going to see some change in the program going forward. But we'll see. So I mentioned talking about things which have gone away. I wanted to talk about the headphone jack a little bit more because, at least for me, I have had some time now to assess my usage based on the facts that I have. Because previously, we didn't really know what they were going to do, right? Are they going to go all Bluetooth? Are they going to be lightning? Is there going to be an adapter? We didn't know

any of this, right? Sure. But now I know the realities. So I just took a trip. And my trip days are very long because of all the travel that I need to do. I'm awake and traveling when I come to the U.S. five hours before I get on my plane. Those five hours include lots of phone time, listening to podcasts while I'm traveling, checking documents, reading Twitter like I'm traveling with it. So I arrived at the airport, got on the plane, sat down on the plane, we took off, and I had 17% battery life on my phone in power-saving mode.

So I was like, okay. And I was listening to ATP. ATP was three and a half hours long. So I wasn't going to get through that. I only have podcasts downloaded on my phone. This is just how it was. This is how I've been. And I was listening with my headphones,

my flight headphones. I have some Bose headphones that I use. And I grabbed a lightning cable, plugged it into the power in the seat, plugged it into my phone, continued on my trip. The next trip that I do with the exact same hardware that I have now with no changes, I can't do this. My phone would have died listening to that show

or I had to stop listening and wait for my phone to charge. This is just a thing. Just take an iPod with you. Please don't. But that's the idea, right? There are... And this is the thing. The way around this is

there's going to need to be changes that I make. But it was just interesting to me to finally really come across something that was an issue for me. Because I travel a lot and whenever I travel, it's 20 hours of travel by the time i've reached my destination my iphone's not lasting that uh and it was just

an interesting thing for me to think like okay so now i have established an area which needs to change so there are a bunch of different things i can do i can go to bluetooth now right get new headphones i can get new headphones i can use adapters there's this new crazy belkin thing which has two lightning adapters right the lightning splitter so i could charge and listen there are a lot of different things i can do but for me it was more ah there is change needed and that's the thing that's interesting about this and i think it's the reason that people are upset is because this has been the way that we've done it for 10 years and now we need to think differently

ding so to speak so to speak about how we do these things so as a couple of things gonna put in the show notes one is to that Belkin thing. And again, this is the other part. No matter what I do here, it's more money. It's costing me more money. This Belkin adapter is 40 bucks. Yeah, the Belkin adapter is two lightnings. I'm hoping that somebody will make one

that is a lightning and a mini jack where it's like you charge, it passes through the charge and it's taking analog audio out. But that one, i don't think we've seen i haven't seen anything no because i i saw this is what the apple dock does right carry it around in a dock uh all day get your air tray in the airplane open it up iphone dock iphone be very formal be nice yeah no it's's, I wrote about this on Twitter. Um, a couple of weekends ago I was in,

I don't know, last weekend I was, um, we, we took a family trip up into the mountains and I was, we were GPS navigating. And so that uses a lot of battery. So I had my phone plugged in and we were also listening to audio.

And, um, my, it's my, the car, my wife usually drives. So her phone's in the car she's the one who's paired to bluetooth i'm not paired with bluetooth and and but there's an aux plug and so

i was using the aux out the the analog headphone jack and charging simultaneously and i thought well i'm not going to be able to do this on the next iphone i'm going to have to make some changes there which it's not an argument change happens, it's not an argument Change happens. Yeah, it's not an argument that, oh, this means Apple shouldn't have done this necessarily. No, I'm past this now. Right? But it is thinking about how does this change affect me and what's my

strategy going to be to deal with this change that has come upon me? What am I going to do differently? What am I going to have to buy? New headphones, new adapters, what are the changes going to going to be like i'm used to this now controlled leaks work right like i've come to accept this i went through all that you saw me write the story about the stages of grief when we were in tennessee it's i'm at acceptance we've all reached acceptance there's still some angry people out there but i've reached acceptance and i don't even think that like i'm not i'm not really

upset about this anymore it's like it's like a it's like a fact of nature yeah do this is what happened yeah we can argue about whether they should have done it or not but i feel like we spent the last eight months arguing about this and now we're at just the point where it's one of the facts on the ground is there's no headphone jack in the new iphone so what what you're gonna do so one of the things that i saw this go by on twitter it really made me laugh and i'm going to put in the show notes it was it's kind of a jokey image tweet but it's it makes a lot of sense right uh as a lady called alana levenson she she tweeted an image of how you would listen in my scenario with my existing headphones

and charge. You would need to plug the Belkin charger in. You would then plug a power cable into one of the lightning cables of the Belkin charger. You would then plug in the 3.5 to lightning adapter and then your headphones into the 3.5 to lightning adapter.

That's why I said there needs to be another adapter. Yeah, there has to be something else. But this is just really funny to me because given the tools we have now, as of right today, this is what you would do. And there probably will be more tools. Because like originally when I hit this problem on the flight here, Belkin hadn't even announced this thing yet. So there was no option.

So basically the reason that I'm thinking about this and we're talking about this is this apple is ahead of the curve the rest of the world the rest of technology is not at this point yet so we're in a transition period and transition periods are typically a little bit ugly and it will mean adapters and or new technology and the technology. And the thing is, there are solutions. I don't have any wireless headphones that I want to use. I have this one little pair of Bluetooth ones that don't last very long, and they're fine, but they're not the ones I want to use every single day.

So I have to think about this. We all have to think about it. What do you want to do? Usually I use earpods. I use earpods the majority of the time. I i have in my pocket all day when i'm out then once i listen to what i'm out about they're great and i'm going to be able to continue doing that because apple are going to ship a pair of earpods that i can use great but then there are little things like when i need to charge it what do you do and and it's just about thinking about that now

that this is where we are and we need to kind of accept that. I would argue a little bit with the ahead of the curve idea. I've seen this a couple of places, and I don't know if removing the headphone jack was so inevitable so soon. No, it's the curve that Apple has set for themselves. Right, right. They are defining that. It's Apple's curve. Right. We're just all on it. Right, right, right. They are defining that. And we're saying other... It's Apple's curve.

Right, okay. We're just all on it. Yeah, right. But, you know, I agree with you. It is something else to think about and have to process. But I think at the end of the day, and I'm not in favor of the decision, but I understand that it's the reality. I can't argue with it.

I'm still going to buy a phone, right? Some people are saying they're not going to buy a phone. That's fine. It's your decision. But you're stuck now because they're not going to put it back. Right, yeah. They're not putting it back. But the reality is I think we'll end up with most –

it seems like every 12 months or so I have to buy another pair of ear pods because they go through the dryer or I lose them. And so I figure I'll pick up another pair of lightning and keep them in my gym bag and keep the adapter in my, you know, travel bag and it'll mostly be okay. But here's the thing, though, about that. The headphones that we're buying now are on average more expensive because they're going to be stuff like Bluetooth, right? Well, we don't know. I mean, I'm just talking about the lightning.

No, I know, I know. cases i mean i'm just talking about the the lightning no i know but i agree with you because i mean and i got into it the other day on twitter some people saying like the idea that bluetooth is or isn't an open standard and and what apple's doing is a super set kind of on top of bluetooth but to your point they are more expensive and the cheap ones are way worse than cheap headphones are wired headphones are you can pick up a pair of wired headphones for $5 and they'd be absolutely fine. You can't get a pair of $5 Bluetooth headphones. Exactly. If I'm going on a trip and I've forgotten my headphones

and I go to the airport store and I want to buy Bluetooth headphones, I'm like $70, $80 if I'm lucky. And you're still with Beats. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know. It was like, you know, we were talking about the affordable thing, right?

Like affordable, $150. Affordable is what Apple called those new Beats on stage. The affordable ones. And it's like affordable for Beats, yes. But that's what you're paying for decent Bluetooth headphones. There are $25 Bluetooth headphones. They're not very good, but they do exist. You also have to wonder if eventually this will...

There will be lightning headphones in all of those kiosks at the airport eventually because there will be enough iPhone people who don't have a pair of headphones that they'll desperately need them. See, I don't know about this yet. I think in the long run there will be just because there will be enough iphone people who don't have a pair of headphones that they'll desperately need them see i don't know about this i think in the long run there will be just because there will be some demand for it but in the short term in the short term you're going to go there and you realize you forgot your headphones and you're going to go to the kiosk and there will literally be no wired headphones you can buy because you don't have your adapter with you and they don't they don't sell lightning headphones and then now you're looking at do i pay150 for a set of headphones here

or do I just sit on my plane trip across the ocean without listening to podcasts or music? The thing is about the cheap headphones. I mean, I don't know enough about how the MFI program works, but what if there can't be really cheap headphones anymore because the MFI program is too expensive? Any lightning headphones have to, since there's no analog out um it's all digital lightning headphones have to have a DAC built into them which means even if it's a cheap one digital analog converter you know you it's

like so much of the stuff with with lightning and with thunderbolt 2 where these are intelligent connectors and they're there's hardware that you have to build into them so they can't be really cheap and crappy and if they are cheap and crappy they're going to be extra cheap and crappy because they are now

if they're in there with a really bad DAC then they're going to sound bad because it used to be you plug in cheap headphones but at least the high quality audio converter in the iPhone is driving them but that won't be the case now so this is the thing, right I'm

past judgment stage I don't think this is a good idea or a bad idea like this is just what they're doing I'm reserving judgment for actually living in this world. Yeah, yeah. What does it mean?

And what are the ramifications of it, right? You turn around, you live your life as you've been doing in traveling. You live your life and then you realize, oh, here's something that's going to change in the near future. But it might be okay. In the end, it will be okay, eventually.

Yeah, but I don't know what it's going to look like yet. Yeah. I mean, we should't know what it's going to look like yet. Yeah. I mean, we should talk about what Apple considers the solution a little bit more, which is AirPods. Right. But before we do that, let me take a moment to thank Hover for sponsoring this week's episode. When you have a great idea for your next project,

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This is something that a lot of places will try and upsell you on, right? They're trying to make you pay them to hide your personal information. Most people don't know this. And when you register a domain name, your email address, phone number, home address is available online unless you have who is privacy in place. So you might go to another registrar and they're going to make you pay for that. And you're going to have to pay for it because who wants their home address out on the internet? Well, unlike any of these other providers, Hover includes free Whois privacy of all supported domains. And they check it automatically because they want to keep your information confidential.

This is one of the things I love about Hover. I don't even need to think about it. confidential. This is one of the things I love about Hover. I don't even need to think about it. Find the perfect domain for your idea. Go to hover.com and use the promo code newiphone at checkout to get 10% off your first purchase. Thank you so much to Hover for their support of this show and RelayFM. Now, Jason, I know that you wrote a little piece on Six Colors talking about your experience with AirPods in a little bit more detail. Yeah, I realized that what I wanted to do was talk a little bit more about the hands-on experience because that's one of those things where if you were in the room, you got to use them. And I thought that as much as I have complained about things like the headphone jack and if it was really necessary to remove it,

and I'm not a big fan, unlike you who carries them around with you, and you apparently carry them around. I don't really like earpods. They work fine for me. Well, this thing, they work fine for most people. By far... Do you remember all the ears they tested?

I have nightmares about all that. This is what people do with their iPhone, right? They get headphones in the box and they use them. And that's basically, I would guess it's something like 95% of iPhone users just use the headphones in the box. It's not our listeners. Our listeners is probably a much smaller percentage than that. But we're the nerds in the group here. Most people just use what's in the box.

I don't love them, though. But what I did love, what I did really, I was impressed. I mentioned it to you last week, is some of the details of how the AirPods work. And that Apple did a very good job building in the technology and being very careful with it. And so I wanted to describe what they had to offer because not a lot of people have had a chance to use the net. And I can't talk about how they sound because it was a really loud room and there's just no way for me to really tell.

But at least I got to experience some of the thoughtfulness that Apple put into this product. Now, the product's not for everyone. In fact, it's going to be for a tiny fraction of Apple. iPhone buyers themselves, because like we said, most people are just going to use the lightning, the lightning ear pods. But I do think there's going to be a nice number of people who are going

to get these and I think be happy with them based on the fact that people seem to like the ear pod design to begin with, and that they have been very thoughtful with how they've applied a lot of different technology and connected it to their software. So that's what my story was about. So looking at these, I just have some kind of observations from the photos and what I've taken a look at. One thing is that the case is really small looking,

the case that you keep the things in. It's like floss. It's like a little case for floss. It was really hard to see that until I saw a lot of the hands-on photos because you know in the images it's as big as a house they're just floating in a white room yeah it's just a giant box with giant earbuds in them and you know like and it's clever but you know it lasts for five hours which is good and then you can get another 24 hours of charge and

something i didn't know until i read your article is it takes just 15 minutes to get three hours of battery life which is i was asking for that, right? Like a quick charge mechanism. I mean, ideally, what I wanted to see was something I just plug straight into my phone, right? So my headphones just plug into the phone and it charges them. But this is a good thing, right? My battery dies and my case is already in my pocket.

All I need to do is pocket in there for 15 minutes and I've got another three hours of battery life. That's great. That's the type of thing that i'm looking for but one of the things that i find really weird in a way is like the way that you control the earpods yeah so because they have no clicker right there's no there's no cord to have a clicker on it so there's no clicker and i think that i'm sure they tried every possible mechanism of controlling these things but the fact that I can only like turn up volume and skip track and if I don't want to take them out my ears pause them by talking to Siri is no good yeah it's that's their compromise right i i was wondering if they would have sort of

double tap to do this triple tap to do this sort of like gestures or spin around in a circle to shuffle double tap on your right ear pull your left ear low you know if you had like all of the siri stuff in one and all of the playback controls in the other is not maybe the most elegant but maybe you don't even really talk about it like say you can do it with Siri you

know what this reminds me of the little shuffle I know the buttonless iPod shuffle yeah that's they've just they just can't let that go right like

here we are we're back again because the problem is for so many people you're commuting yeah and so what are you gonna do you

want to turn your music up? Bleep. Hey, s***. Oh, sorry, everybody. Please turn up the music. Yeah. Like, that's ridiculous.

It'll be tap, tap, turn up the music. I think that's... Make it louder. Everyone's just going to be standing there talking to themselves. Now, again, this isn't one of those things, right? I'm so used to the way that I've been doing it. Yeah. I use my little clicker, turn it up and down. But there are other options.

Yeah. One thing I always did, especially when I was commuting, for a long time I had some really good headphones, but they didn't have the microphone and remote control on it. And what I would do is I got really good at reaching in. I'm doing it now. really good at reaching in i'm doing it now reaching in uh on the outside of my my jeans i can feel the iphone in my pocket and i can feel the volume buttons and i just squeeze in my pocket to make the volume go up and down and it totally worked so you could do that you take your phone out if you've got an apple watch maybe you use the apple watch to change the volume when i'm running i do that i will actually open the, well, in WatchOS 2,

you could flip up the little control center, and now in WatchOS 3, you have to have an app that you open, which is a complaint I have about WatchOS 3. Is that a now playing app, or has that just gone away? Yeah, well, I think there's a music app, but the problem is if you're playing a podcast, you can't use the music app for the podcast. You've got to use the Overcast app or something.

Oh, man, so they've taken away what I thought was my solution which was just using Control Center on the watch I filed a radar saying that music app needs to actually be a now playing app and they said it's a dupe so apparently people have complained you're a dupe

dupe this but anyway you could do that and play applause, skip, change volume on your Apple Watch or you could do it through Siri or you could do it, right? And play applause, skip, change volume on your Apple Watch. Or you could do it through Siri. Or you could do it by taking your phone out of your pocket. Or even just squeezing your phone in. I mean, I know that one way that you can pause these things, which is smart, is by taking one of the earphones out of your ear.

Yeah. But that isn't what I always want to do. Right. You may actually want to pause because you're busy with something and you don't want to miss what the podcast is talking about the last thing you can do is and i want to see like listen to the announcement that the guy's got going over the tannoy i just want to pause it like i don't have to take it out of my ear and i think it's cool like that's cool technology i mean it makes a nice demo and it's well i think it's an interesting gesture too the idea that if somebody's talking to you or there's something you need to hear if if you take one out, you can hear it better

and it pauses the music and then you pop it back in and it starts again. I like that. I think it's really smart, right? But there's more that I want here. Right. But this is another exactly thing I'm going back to from earlier.

I just have to find a new way. Like I'm ingrained in my ways of dealing with this stuff now there are new ways like i remember i was using some beats for a while and my cable broke and the cable that i had had the playback controls on them right so i had to get a new cable and i got the cable sent and they sent me on without the playback controls so for a few months i was using headphones with just the cable and i got used to it sure because you just do i mean you find a way to make it work exactly you squeeze the phone when it's in your pocket take it out my phone to pause it like yeah you know that that was just the things that i would do how i would do

of it and so it's the same kind of idea but i actually i'm i was the more i've read and the more i thought about these airpods i want to get a pair to play with them because i think they could be really cool. And I love this one little thing that you mentioned, which is like the Apple magic. If you've got audio playing on an iPhone and then you pop in an AirPod into one ear, the iPhone automatically switches the audio input to that AirPod in mono. Yeah. Put an AirPod in the other ear and now you're hearing everything in stereo. Yeah. That's awesome awesome and when you take them both out it uh starts basically the the audio uh output goes back to the phone so you don't have to do what most bluetooth headphones you have to turn them off so you just take them

out and it knows you're not listening to them anymore clarification on that yeah so i take them both out does the music automatically start playing i don't think so i think i think it you you're back with a play button. But if you press play, it plays it out of the phone speakers. So this is the thing. I want to try these because they have some things that aren't so great, like some things that I consider a step back, like poor access to playback controls.

But they have some things that are significant step forwards, which is like the understanding of the context of where and how i'm listening to something like very frequently when i'm getting ready to leave the house i will start playing a podcast on a speaker and i will then plug my earphones in and keep listening as i leave but wouldn't it be great if all i did was just put my earphones in and i have to like like it's just it's just a more like fluid type of thing, right? Where I'm not actually plugging anything in or doing is putting them in my

ears. Like that is the kind of like devices working together that Apple does so well. So I'm interested to see what I go personally, AirPods two, I think we'll have a different mechanism for playback controls. Yeah. I wonder,

I actually wonder. And we had a listener dale wrote in and asked if they're capable of a software update for adding features later i don't know i imagine they probably have some firmware that could get updated although i suspect that most of the support changes like could apple tv have that same sort of icloud sync pairing thing that you have with max and i think it's quite possible that it might down the road um but this is an example where i do wonder if maybe the airpods could even be updated for things like this like we added a triple tap gesture because people really wanted a triple

tap to mean whatever because it's an accelerometer in there or a couple accelerometers they could add gestures they could you know the gestures are never going to be what we think of as you know it's an accelerometer in there or a couple accelerometers. They could add gestures. The gestures are never going to be what we think of as, it's not going to be swiping or anything, but they can tell when you're tapping on them and when you take them in and out of your ears. So there may be some ways for them to learn, or they'll spend a year or two with this hardware and then they'll see how their customers are using it

and what the complaints are and make changes that way too, which may happen. Because you're right. The problem is where do you put that? I think the idea of having it be just doing a little tap is super smart because you don't have a thing dangling down that you can click on. So you've got to find other ways to do it. But right now, the fact that there's only one gesture and it's the double tap which will answer your phone if you get a phone call and it will

kick off Siri if you don't and that's the only one right now it feels like to me that the hardware isn't capable of anything more it may be it may be because it's a weird choice to make I think I don't know I think the problem is that you could

triple tap doesn't necessarily mean it's not necessarily a bad idea. No. But you're not going to do a quadruple tap, so what do you make the triple tap mean? Is that forward? Is that back? Maybe taps don't work. Maybe they only have a couple of things. Maybe volume up and down, just find a way to deal with it. But things like playing and skipping, we used to click in with these things that there are things they could do it just seems really strange to me to ask siri

to to do this stuff yeah i mean the alternative is putting something like putting buttons on them yeah and that's not great they're too small for it yeah it would be uncomfortable so i want to try them i'm gonna get them uh weird they're coming in october right like another issue with production they couldn't get these things made in time i assume or maybe making iphone maybe some fcc filings they didn't want to file until you know so it didn't get leaked i don't know but they're coming later i'm looking forward to trying them out um not cheap talk about looking forward this week it's coming week ios 10 is going to be released and i wanted to just touch on very quickly a few things that we're excited about now i Talk about looking forward. This week, this coming week, iOS 10 is going to be released. And I wanted to just touch on very quickly a few things that we're excited about.

Now, I primarily am excited to have iOS 10 on my phone. I have not put iOS 10, any of the betas on my iPhone. I have iOS 10 running on my iPads, but not on my phone. A couple of reasons for this, a bunch of travel. Just wanted to make sure I was going to have the most stable phone that I could have during the travel that I've been doing this summer. And also, I kind of wanted to experience it when it was done with all of the apps. Because on my iPad, there are a bunch of apps that just do weird things. Like the widgets look weird, right?

Because they're not formatted in the right way. So I wanted to see what all that was going to look like on the iPhone, the primary device for this stuff. So I've been waiting to see a little bit. But I'm looking forward to sticker packs being released. I've played with a couple, and the ones that I've played with are awesome. People that I know that are on betas have been sending me stickers, and they look fantastic.

I can't wait to try out more of this stuff. The interactive notifications and all the 3D Touch stuff, I've not tried any of that because right, because I'm on an iPad. So I'm looking forward to seeing what these things are like. And again, I've played with a couple of betas of iMessage apps, and there is some really, really interesting stuff. The iMessage apps are something that I didn't think I'd be particularly interested in, but it really changes the way that I think

about sharing stuff with messages. So before messages was just a sort of a dumping ground for the share sheet. So I'm in an app, I'm in tweetbot or Safari or Evercast. I want to send you something. I go to the share sheet, select messages, select your name and send it where with the apps, it feels like I can be within messages and we can be having a conversation. And instead of going to an app and pushing content into messages, I can pull it in from these various sources into our conversation. And what that has led to is already in the beta,

just with friends on the beta, sharing more stuff and messages than I would have. So the example I think I told somebody earlier in person was GIFs. So I use an app called GIFwrapped. It keeps like a Dropbox library of GIFs on my phone. I used to have to go to that app, find the GIF of whatever I wanted to send to Mike, and then share it out to you. Well, you know, if that app had an iMessage app, I could pull it in into our

conversation. That makes sharing faster, and it makes me more likely to add things to our messages to enrich them. And so that was a surprise to me. I kind of rolled my eyes at a lot of the messages stuff. Many people did. And there's still a lot of stuff in there that I don't care for, but the apps, I think, are going to be a really interesting place. Unlike iOS 9, with the iPad, multitasking and apps works basically the same in all of them. But iOS 10, there's so many things that developers can implement in different ways. So a developer could do stickers, or they could do a fuller iMessage app,

or they could do new fuller iMessage app or they could do new fancy things with notifications and so I'm excited to see what developers do to improve their apps and the space that they work in through these different tools and I think we're going to see a wide variety of stuff and I think that'll be exciting what about you Jason well I have been living with it for a while now so it's i i have to keep on searching back through my mind of like well what's new like as somebody who uses the ipad to do writing i'm very i'm still just the only ipad feature really but i love it is that i can turn off autocorrect for all my hardware keyboards so it stops trying to rewrite all my words like i'm also excited for watch os3 like i haven't tried that yeah and it's great yeah i'm i'm i'm very happy with that i'm looking forward to having

the apps that are built to the watch os3 sdk because those are the ones that are going to be able to stay in the foreground if they're fitness apps and they're going to be much more useful than the existing ones so i'm looking forward to that. The, the revamp notification center has a lot of things going for it. Um, so that's nice. The,

the messages stuff is really, is really good. There's, there's a lot of nice stuff in iOS 10. It's just funny cause I've been living with it over the summer. So now for me, it's the, it's normal.

That's what, that's what the iPhone is, but everybody else gets to use it. I'm pretty happy with my decision to not upgrade my phone. Because I've played around with some iOS 10 stuff, but now I'll get to experience it as it should be. Yeah, I think that's the way to do it. I'd say it's a pretty gentle update, though.

I feel this way about Sierra, too. I agree with that, but I think it's because it's calm before the storm. A lot of the stuff that is in there, we can't really play around with too much because the apps aren't out. It's true. Something like the messages apps, it's going to be a big difference. Siri stuff. The Siri integration. Maps things.

All the little things that Apple have added for developers, that's all going to start coming on Tuesday. Exactly. I like those kind of updates personally. When they've given tools to developers to go out and make new and exciting things. I love the line. It's an off-use phrase, but I really like it. It's like, imagine the things developers could do with this.

We can't even imagine the types of things that we might see. And honestly, I've been that way with some of the stuff that I've seen just with the iMessage apps that I've played with and see if I've been that way with some of the stuff that I've seen just with the iMessage apps that I've played with and see if I've played with. So I'm really excited for it. I just sent a bunch of stuff to Steven. I sent him some stickers and some animated GIFs and some stuff from apps. Animated what, sorry?

GIFs. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, yeah, it's these animations. They're like JPEGs except it's pronounced GIF. Oh, it's the JPEG version. It's like a GIF but like a JPEG. But it doesn't move. Which is why it's soft. It's not like Igs except it's pronounced jif oh this is the jpeg version it's like a gif but like a jpeg but it doesn't move which is why it's soft it's not like i don't know what a gif is that a kind of giraffe giraffe send your feedback to at casey liss on twitter yeah c-a-s-e-y-l-i-s-s that's casey liss this episode is brought to you by the ring video

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They give you everything that you need in the box to put it up. And you'll be ready to go. You just install the application, you set it up, and it's done. I really like that there's a couple of different color options, so you can match kind of your door and then the decor of the outside of your home. And it looks just like a doorbell. It's not like this huge box with this massive camera. It just looks like a really good, nice little device.

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who protect their home with ring for a limited time off listeners of this show can save up to 150 on the ring a security kit this is the lowest price anywhere so go to ring.com upgrade right now thank you so much to ring for their support of this show and relay fm It's time for some mask upgrade, gentlemen. That was some Portland-style lasers right there. Jason, what do you think the Galaxy Note fiasco might do for iPhone sales? People that don't know, the Galaxy Note 7 has had an unfortunate time right now with setting fire. Yeah, some battery problems.

Apple had that with laptops 15 years ago. PowerBook 5300. So this is the thing. This is what I consider to be kind of a little bit upsetting about. It's sad. I feel really bad for Samsung because it could happen to anyone. On Friday, the phones that we pick up, the batteries might go wrong and they might start catching fire. Like this can just

happen, right? Like it's not necessarily that they're doing something bad, but they just may have a batch of bad batteries and they're catching fire. This is like battery technology is crazy. It's difficult and it's flammable materials so this stuff could happen to anyone i feel kind of bad for them that they're in this situation right now all the air agencies like the faa and i think it's the easa are saying please don't turn these phones on or charge them when you're on airplanes like it's and now they're having to recall them all it's a real unfortunate thing so one what do you think about that two do you think it's going to have an effect on iphone sales it might have a minor effect i feel like most people are going to get a new phone they're gonna get a loaner and then they're gonna get a new phone from samsung they're not gonna like

say like no now i'm gonna go buy an iphone and be like six hundred dollars in the hole it really seems unlikely that that would i mean i'm sure you're gonna get your money back if you don't want to keep your exploding galaxy note you can probably find a way to just demand a refund but it seems unlikely i mean the people who bought the galaxy note have reasons to buy a giant android phone that's what they want and they made it made a choice and i it seems unlikely that most of them are going to want to suddenly go to a you know maybe similarly giant apple phone because yeah they've made a choice already. So, yeah, I feel bad. I mean, I don't feel too bad. It's Samsung. They're not my favorite.

Come on. But it could happen to anyone. You're absolutely right. And it's just a shame. I genuinely think it's a shame because it looks like great fun and they're in a really unfortunate situation. Yeah, and it's a case where one of their suppliers

gave them a bad product. And the fact is that's happened before. Apple the bad uh power adapters in the u.s that they have that's why we all have little green dots on our power adapters now yep um the little tiny square adapters that came with iphones they've had you know recalls and well not recalls but repair extension programs on max over the years right now there's one for macbook pros with the gpu basically just do you remember when they did it on the ipod like not too long ago it was like the ipod nano yeah the first gen nano had a problem so i mean it happens you know i think the the tribalism of poking fun of it is is pretty boring but this is not proof of the fact that samsung sucks and apple is great no that's

ridiculous this is a company who had a manufacturing flaw in their product and it happened and they the supply chains are complicated and in this case they're getting two different batteries from two different manufacturers and one of them this is why it's not a problem in asia apparently is that samsung's using samsung's batteries in asia from another part of samsung and those are fine and this other one that is being used to supply the third phones in the u.s is is some other company and those have a problem it's you know honda is going through this right now with airbags in the u.s is is some other company and those have a problem it's you know honda is going through this right now with airbags in the u.s where the airbags for certain um early 2000s models of honda cars are potentially explosive like dangerously explosive

they may just explode while you're driving your car that sounds like a good feature yeah yeah it's a safety feature that has turned horribly wrong and and it's just you know they had a third party and the third party it turned out was the story i read i'm you know i didn't report this myself but they were that they were like cutting corners and there were issues with them and as a result they have to do this massive recall of those products too so it's it's terrible when this something happens because this is yeah it's it's ugly and i feel bad the people i really feel bad for other people who are very excited that they got the brand new samsung galaxy note and now they've got to live with the prospect of like they've got to go back talk about going back to a store where you bought something they've got to go back with this thing

that they're not supposed to use they've probably migrated all their data to it they might yeah they're supposedly getting like loner phones that you then have to restore and then you have to wait and then you'll get another one. And it's really lousy to be one of their customers. So I hope they take care of the people, basically. I hope they take care of the customers and make them feel better and maybe give them some free stuff because I feel really bad for them that they invested their money in a premium product and they had this terrible experience mike wants to know any mention of a headphone adapter that goes the other way plugging lightning headphones into a 3.5 millimeter jack i haven't seen one

uh no i don't think it i think because the the dac situation i'm not even sure it'd be possible. Because I assume they're looking for a digital audio stream over lightning, which you would need... Yeah, it seems unlikely. But that is a question that if such a thing doesn't exist, what it means is that if you're the kind of person who likes to take your iPhone headphones and plug them into your laptop, you can't. What if you buy one of those

really expensive lightning headphones, like the really nice stuff, because you want to get the best sound when you're on your iOS devices, and then you want to use them on your Mac, and you can't do it. I think that's the reason. I don't think Mike's wondering this question

because of his AirPods. A lot of the really expensive lightning headphones have detachable cords right you can swap them out right i mean and it leads to the question of are we going to see lightning ports on the side of new macs if they ever show up and that i really go back and forth on i think it could be confusing because lightning is data in on iphones and ipads and you're using it just for audio out or some other weird stuff on the Mac. And it's so similar to

USB-C, which we all think is coming to the Mac line, too. You're going to be jamming things in the wrong port. It's all very messy. This is Michael's question. He wanted to know whether we think that their new MacBooks and new MacBook Pros will have headphone jacks on them. I think it has to be.

I think they're going to take away from the MacBook eventually, because the MacBook's whole premise is wireless. Well, and wouldn't you rather have a second USB-C port? I don't know if they would make that trade-off. They just cover it up. I just think on the MacBook, they would just literally take the headphone jack and not put a lightning port on there.

They're just going to take the headphone jack off. I think they would be consistent across the line. I don't see them doing that on the macbook and then leaving it anywhere else but um why uh because it's especially the line is inconsistent because like there's usbc on one device and not on for now i mean they're going to see usbc on these new macs but i think you know as we said before eventually the headphone jack will go away from everything well i think well i think too i think the other side of this is that while two of the three of us sitting at this table use ipads for audio work the mac is is much more sort of in that world i think you've got a pro you got a pro system you've got to have those extra av things for your video editors and audio

i don't see them i don't see them ripping it out of the MacBook and leaving it other places, though. So I think they're definitely keeping it on the MacBook Pro. I think it's less likely for the MacBook, but I agree with what you're saying. It would be weird, but it could do it. But anyway, I think maybe Michael's question is centered more around the MacBook Pros,

and I think that Pro audio production is still a good use case for the MacBook Pro existing. And I'm thinking I'll take away the headphone jack from there for now. I also hope. They won't. Also, the iPhone is the one product that absolutely has space issues on the inside, right? I mean, the MacBook does too, actually.

But even then, the MacBook has so much space compared to an iPhone. Right. Yeah, I don't think that the space taken by the headphone jack is so if they get on stage and rev the the 27 inch iMac and they say without the headphone jack we now have more space to do things i'm just gonna quit like yeah yeah we're done we're all done eric wanted to know uh he says he's not gonna be getting this new iphone but wondering in the future if apple will still include the headphone adapter in the box. I think this is a one-time deal, Eric.

But the adapters are only $9, so they're not too bad. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's a one-time to ease the transition. And I like that. I think it's just to shut up the press. I like that it's $9. The only other thing close to it is the

MagSafe 2-to-1 adapter or whatever. $9 is the right call. I think if this thing was $19, it would be not great. $9 feels nice. At $9, you could buy four of them and attach them to all your existing headphones. You just leave them on there

and you're all good. You're good to go. Rajiv wants to know, will the Apple Watch eventually support night shift? This was a shocking admission to me with true tone on the iphone i think both of those things i think what should you should have night shift especially the new one um even brighter he's you know this yeah it's like opening the ark of the covenant in the engines it's now two times brighter which is awesome so my eyes will melt uh and no true tone on the iphone is also very uh very surprising to me i'm surprised at that too because it's not like the iphone doesn't have a light sensor and all the true tone is you know it's a multi multi sensor light sensor where it's it's not just sensing light it's sensing the color

temperature of the light so it's doing an doing an RGB sensor instead of a regular sensor. Craig Hockenberry had a tweet. Maybe we can dig it up. He found where that sensor is on the 9.7-inch iPad Pro, and apparently the surface area it uses is pretty large. Ah, well, that explains it. He had said that this may be another space constraint issue. Right, because you've got to you've got to be um you've

got to sample the the rgb to do that also just thinking ahead because we have done that from time to time in terms of conspiracy theories and all of that if an iphone 8 next year is sort of wall-to-wall screen and the home button you know goes away entirely and all of that one of their challenges is going to be having space for sensors like the front-facing camera you know the selfie camera and the light sensor because they're going to want to maximize the screen space there so i wonder too if that's part of it is well we could probably get it to fit this year but our plans for next year it's i'm not sure we could get it to fit so maybe we should just leave it leave it alone but i i am surprised because that seemed like a feature that was

going to be everywhere and it's not i feel like there's a lot of that conversation right now talking about well next year they're going to do this and that and so far my list of expectations for next year's iphone is is ridiculously high the iphone the iphone 7 has not even shipped yet and and people have been talking about iphone 8 a lot so i expect or whatever iphone 10th anniversary edition special special edition uh i expect apple to iphone 10 i think we will have some expectation setting yeah we'll see we'll see um but craig finding that that's good because that that shows that makes sense right there's really limited space and you know i don't know what a rgb light sensor takes up in terms of space yeah but back to back to the question I agreed. Night shift on the Apple Watch would be great.

My only thought is that the screen technology can't support that sort of color shifting as well or maybe as smoothly as they wanted. That's where I'm out of my depth knowing about how the screen actually works. Or maybe how the graphics processor works because what you have to do is shift all of the colors. You have to detect what all the colors

are supposed to be painted on the screen and shift them in real time shift them so maybe the maybe the gpu maybe something like the the series 2 might be capable of doing that down the road in terms of software and maybe the series 1 or 0 can't yeah so i guess we'll see i would like to see it especially on the the watch. I mean, yeah. Lucas wants to know if the iPhone 7's water resistance means that you could take underwater photos and videos. In theory, yes. In theory... Just don't have it under for too long?

For too long and don't go too deep. The challenge is going to be that your touchscreen won't work. The volume up button. But you can press the volume up button to do the shutter so um yes it's it's quite possible the problem is apple still saying watch out for water damage i think the idea here is you're supposed to not use this except when you accidentally put it in the water. But if it's truly as water resistant as the first Apple Watch, we know that,

speaking of Craig Hockenberry again, that he takes it in the surf like every day, and it's fine. Basically, Apple was saying you can spill stuff on it or splash stuff on it. So if it does work,

which it probably will, but your iPhone breaks, you're on your own. Yeah. Because they're not saying this is... They still say the water damage is not covered under the warranty. Well, like, you know, I think, at least in my brain, I keep getting the Apple Watch's water resistance

and the iPhone's water resistance mixed up. The new iPhone's water resistance is the old Apple Watch's water resistance, which is three feet for 30 minutes. And the new Apple Watch is, yeah, do whatever. And that's the point at which Apple says, sure, swim with it. So even though it was basically water resistant enough for you to take a shower with it or swim with it before,

Apple didn't talk about it. And that's where the iPhone is now. So what I would say is you could do it and you might even succeed doing it, taking underwater photography with it. That said, you're sort of taking the product into your own hands at that point. It will probably work. But, you know, when I took a shower with the Apple Watch on day one, people are like, oh, wow, I can't believe you risked the Apple Watch there.

And it was like, yeah, well because i got very excited about the prospect of is having the iphone on in the shower with me like on a shelf yeah when i'm listening to podcasts yeah you you may be able to do that well i'm gonna do it okay i'm very excited about it like i'm not gonna hold it right like but i could have it like on a shelf on a shelf and if it's a little bit it's okay doesn't matter any steam doesn't matter so i'm excited about that some shaving cream yeah it's fine it's all good uh ryan wants to know do you think apple would ever license the w1 chip down the road for third-party headphone makers to make a better bluetooth experience so this w1 chip is what is uh the special source i think is everybody keeps referring to it steven what do you think i don't see them doing this they have a headphone company yeah

they own beats and and there were what three beats products that are going to be supporting this yeah i think apple's going to keep it as a a competitive advantage which they're well within their rights to do of course like this is their technology why would they give it to other people right it's not um you know that was kind of part of the debate about bluetooth being an open standard and this not being that and so my argument was you know that there's a there's a difference there there's a there's a gradient of difference and it doesn't matter i don't see this showing up in in in other brands that i can walk into a best buy and purchase these things are bluetooth headphones and they work over bluetooth which is great but if you have an apple device they work even better synergy everybody i think i think there's a chance that this could be part of a made for iphone kind of program

a chance but it seems unlikely no it seems it seems to me like this is apple proprietary they did the work they're going to reap the benefits and you know you you said it apple owns a headphone company why would it not and and here we see it these aren't just the first time airpods the airpods technology is in those three lines of beats headphones so why why share on what they get though those beats have i think they get the instant pairing and the and the better audio quality they say yeah because it's doing an aac whatever stream it's doing is a is a better audio quality i think so and maybe battery life as well is yeah i don't know like it's more and

i don't know if they're using the sensors and things too i think the sensors are not necessarily the w1 chip no they're they're earpods so that's that's it may just be that this is the thing that drives all of their this is their custom bluetooth it's the brains thing that does the special pairing and yeah all that and i think if they're going to do it it could that could have been that would have fit into the pitch of we are in a wireless world and we've made this great thing and we're going to have it in mfi so you can get any headphones you want and nope and that would have strengthened the argument that we're now in a wireless world they didn't say it at launch i don't think it's

going to happen no because it's not up to apple to make everybody else's technology better like that's not that's not what a company does right you're competing they're competing with Bose yeah absolutely right so why would they give their chips away to Bose that they're like they're taking 10 years of development away from Bose like you just leapfrog yeah they're not gonna do that the thing the last kind of thing on airpods that comes about you know Tim Cook said a couple of years ago maybe all things d or some interview that apple is really looking at sensor technology and these airpods have so much stuff they know when they're in your ear they know when you're touching them um i think that is potentially something he had in mind in saying that because

the watch does have some sensors but it's not not really all that complicated the watch sensors do uh basic things very and very specific things where the airpods seem like they have an intelligence about them and mike to your point maybe it doesn't go far enough but they seem to be really aware of their surroundings in a way that we haven't really seen from apple hardware before no i think it's that's what excites me about the airpods this idea of like put one in get them on oh like put them both in take them out and like everything just reacts to it. Once you know how to speak their language and how to use their gestures,

then it becomes kind of second nature. It's a wait and see. We are in the wait and see period. We are, but not for long. I'm sure next Monday we'll see how the setup process goes. It's that time of year again. Oh, it is. How angry will Mike be when he tries to set up his iPhone?

We really went to town last year on this., it is. How angry will Mike be when he tries to set up his iPhone? We really went to town last year on this. Because it was a disaster. So I'm excited to see how iOS 10 fares for setup. I mean, I know we're going to get another screen where I have to customize my home button strength. Yeah, that'll be exciting. But I'm interested to see. That'll be the new question.

It's how strong is your home button? We'll all be asking next week. I will go weakest, the weakest possible touch, because I have a 3D touch as well, because I worry about RSI stuff, and I've had concerns, and I was having concerns at the exact time that the iPhone came out last year,

so I've always set mine to be the weakest possible, and I haven't had any problems with it. But I know people that have, because you're pressing more and doing some weirder stuff, smushing your finger against a flat surface. One last thing on this. Okay. But it's home button.

I forgot to mention last week. Why did they make it look like a home button if it doesn't click? Why did it need to be like that? Gives you a target. Yeah, but it could have just been a flat surface with the fingerprint sensor on it. My only thought is the touch ID, the stainless steel ring activates touch ID. Yeah. And that needs to be elevated enough where you can on it. My only thought is the touch ID, the stainless steel ring activates touch ID

and that needs to be elevated enough where you can touch it and it read on both sides. So my thought is it's a depth issue and let's put the hat on for next year if this new magic unicorn iPhone is great and the home button goes away why spend a bunch of R&D time

and engineering time where you can basically reuse the same components and just replace the underside my theory for this next phone the reason we're talking about this phone is because the current one looks exactly the same and there's been rumors, like I think

John Gruber started them about, like don't worry the next one's going to be all glass and it's going to be the most amazing thing you've ever seen I think they're going to put the fingerprint sensor on the back because where would you put the fingerprint sensor on an all glass and it's going to be the most amazing thing you've ever seen i think they're going to put the fingerprint sensor on the back because where would you put the fingerprint sensor on an all glass front it's possible i mean we we see that i i've got that in my nexus i love it on the same and it's not bad the only problem with it is you can't put it in the case or if you do they've got to do a fingerprint holes in them yeah which is whatever like apple workshopped that a few years ago with the 5c i already have a hole for my camera yeah so yeah so you'd have a you'd have a thumb of or a finger

scanner cut out but it does you hold it for those who haven't done it the idea of a fingerprint scanner on the back of the phone sounds kind of ridiculous but you know what you pick up the phone and your hand is holding the phone and your for me it's my index finger is resting right on that scanner on the back and the phone opens and i'm looking at my phone and i've seen some really cool stuff that some make some uh android makers are doing like i can't remember who it is that's doing it but you can swipe on the fingerprint sensor and it'll bring down your notification shade how cool is that yeah so you got your hand on the back you you just swipe it down, and the notifications pop up. So it could be. Also, you know,

Apple's happy to make the lives of case makers more difficult. Especially after. That was the other thing, by the way. You know, we were talking last week about the Twitter stuff popping out. Just as the event started, Amazon had a page go up with all of the iPhone 7 cases. So it was a disaster.

All right, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of upgrade if you want to find our show notes go to relay.fm slash upgrade slash 106 steven hackett thank you for joining us yes you can find steven online at 512pixels.net and he is at ismh on twitter jason is at sixcolors.com and he is at j snell j-s-n-e-l-l and I am at imyke I-M-Y-K-E thanks again

to our lovely sponsors of this week's episode that is Hover Mac Weldon and Ring we'll be back next week

with new iPhones in hand until then I hope that you get the ones that you're looking for say goodbye gentlemen goodbye gentlemen

adios that you're looking for. Say goodbye, gentlemen. Goodbye, gentlemen. Adios.