Upgrade - 144: Don't Call It the Finder

Episode Date: June 5, 2017

Live from San Jose, in the immediate aftermath of the WWDC 2017 Keynote, Jason and Myke break down the entire event. We've got new Macs, new iPads, new versions of all of Apple's operating systems, and the official results of our keynote draft.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 144 recorded live in san jose california today's show is brought to you by encapsular squarespace a mail route my name is mike hurley i am joined by mr jason snell over there hey jason now why did you say san jose because i nearly said francisco oh i see still getting used to that all right yeah it just seems strangely aggressive it is san jose it's currently 1 p.m on monday we have just finished watching the keynote you booked it i was I was at the keynote an hour ago, and now I'm here with you. So we are here to talk about what has just gone down. At WWDC 2017 keynote. Now, here's an important point.

We've made it before. We're going to make it again. We are in the keynote bubble. Yep. Which means there are probably people out there somewhere else who know more than we do about some things that have just been announced because they're the ones who are freeze framing those slides that they showed for like half a second and then flipped away. They're the ones

who are looking at the tech notes who are trawling through the product pages on Apple.com and we haven't done any of that we watched the keynote and now we're going to talk about it what this means is it's a great opportunity for us to discuss the finer details, the things you might have missed in next week's show yep and the weeks following so yeah we are basically we know what you know if you watch the video if you know anything more we

probably don't know it but the most i think the most important thing that we need to get to today is uh the draft oh yes that is the most important thing i believe we can say now that you are the two-time defending wwdc keynote draft champion i'm pleased that we didn't even need to uh to argue about it this time um i think it is clear uh i scored you at four points that seems to be the consensus i scored me at six points with a possible seventh but i don't think it works enough um which is improved 3d touch support i think we saw some extra things especially in control center but i don't think it was enough to warrant a point yeah the way i interpreted your statement was that there were

going to be new aspects of the feature and not just that was the way i meant it yeah and not just oh look there's new things that you can 3d touch on i mean because honestly it was right to me the things that they showed the things that we already could do in other parts of the os yeah but the way that it went so jason got photo metadata across all devices ipad drag and drop uh improved dual camera support and uh enhanced siri kit i got split view ipad pro amazon prime macbook pro spinal tap reference yeah debut of the siri speaker or just what you know i think we will we'll say it's the siri speaker but we'll get to that totally counts no and you're and you're betting on hardware paid off and and that they would prominently display amazon which i was

skeptical about that totally paid off and in fact right after i'm going to give uh we didn't say this like we've done in past ones but i'm going going to give credit to the Upgradians slash Joe Steele, although Joe wasn't involved, but he's part of the team now. He's stuck with us. He's the head of the Upgradians. For the number one thing that everybody mentioned after our show last week, which was the iMac Pro, which was much, much rumored and even hinted at, But we didn't pick it because we forgot about it. We picked it because we thought it wasn't going to happen.

There were no rumors about it. Now, of course, the answer is it's not going to ship until the end of the year, and that's why there were no rumors about it. Because there's nothing, right? The people that would be able to leak can't because it's not being made. It's not in the supply chain, yeah.

So it seems like a bit of a concept still at this point. Before we go to the details of what was announced, one other point that's not quite draft-related, but it is sort of draft-related, which is the state of rumors. Yeah. So I was chatting with some people before the keynote. You may have read the piece that John Gruber wrote last week

about Mark Gurman's latest report about what we now know as the HomePod. And the larger point here is, currently, the state of Apple rumors is bad. Yep. That they kept the OS stuff locked up tight. Some things leaked, but mostly it was supply chain stuff.

And the supply chain has some issues with what you can tell from the supply chain. And the OS stuff being tied up really changes the tenor of the rumors because you don't know what the software is that's running on the hardware. And the reason this is draft-related is only for me to say that if I have one regret about our draft it's not that i lost it's that i felt like we lacked we were being driven not only by competitiveness which is fine but by the being trained by matt apple rumors to view what was rumored as the set of things to choose from instead of our sort of dreams.

And I think what we saw today in the keynote was the rumors were weak enough that we should have gone with our dreams. Because I think our dreams might have scored better than tying into the rumors. So I think that's something to keep in mind as we look at future Apple events that we may end up being in an environment now where the iPhone's going to leak because of the huge supply chain involved,

but that Apple may have made some internal changes. And in line today, I talked to some people who had some interesting speculation about internal changes that Apple has made to ferret out some of these sources of leaked information, and that we may not be able to just sort of look at a list of rumors and pick from them. We may really need to use, like we used to do back in the olden days, of just using our imagination.

I think that would actually be better. I think it's better for all. I think a hearty combination of both, because I don't think that either of us would have picked the MacBook stuff today. No, oh yeah. Without those rumors. The rumors that we got,

a lot of them were right, and they were important. It's just that they didn't tell the whole story. I agree. Yeah, I agree. So I think that's just something for me and you to bear in mind, right? Because we do more and more of these,

because we will do them forever and ever and ever, that we maybe try and incorporate a little more of what we hope and think as opposed to just what mac rumors is telling us right which i think is what at least i know i focused on quite a lot when putting together the the rumor list to pick from yeah i also have some theories about the our next draft involving like having some categories and forcing us to pick some uh some wild ideas instead of just kind of going for the safe ones. And we'll discuss it for the next event. But I won the draft.

Yeah, six to four. I think we can officially put that up there with the only caveat being if somebody analyzes a slide and sees something that was on one of those slides, those slides that they don't read out loud, but they show on screen, they do count they do they do count they're in the keynote we didn't see them and i think that whatever we decide right now it's binding like as we said last time what we say on the show is the binding result i think the binding result is that you win i think the score is open to possible adjustment later but i i'm gonna even if even if you win 6-6, you still win. Thank you very much. I think I won actually pretty early on because the tvOS and the Mac went real quick through these six big announcements

is the way that the keynote was pitched. Like you remember last year, we have these four platforms and they went through it that way. This year, the overriding theme, the overarching theme was six big announcements, was great because i mean we got to one point it's like okay we're up to four and there's no ipad no siri speaker so come on five and six yeah it was how i was watching the keynote today tv os so tv os all there was was just the information about prime now and apple tv now my feeling on this

especially everything that tim said gave a real sales pitch for prime i think what i said last time i stand by like this was contractual it's part of the deal stage time because tim is talking about how all the great content available you know that it's available on all these devices and now on the app. It was a real thing that he doesn't normally do for anyone. Didn't do it for Netflix. For HBO, someone from HBO came out and did it. Whether contractual or not, clearly there was an agreement made that they would plug the Amazon stuff in the keynote.

Exactly. That was interesting, I think. I think it was pretty telling. And I'm pleased to see that it's going to happen. Did they announce when? For Amazon? I don't remember. It's coming to Apple TV.

See, I feel like there was nothing for tvOS probably because there's not a new TV box yet. And when there's a new TV box later in the year, there may be some other stuff that they show. So things that we were talking about, like 4K and picture-in-picture and stuff like that, they don't need to show any of that now. They're going to ship a new box in the fall, probably. Yeah, when it will have some stuff in it.

We can draft it then. Watch OS 4. So I was expecting, with the way that tvOS went, I thought Watch OS 4 was going gonna get no time right like i thought it was going to be a very similar thing but kevin lynch sporting a new look uh came out on stage oh real-time follow-up from the chat room amazon prime support uh this fall okay is the quote this fall probably with the new apple tv right they'd be with the iphone and there's a bunch of new watch faces one of them is a proactive Siri assistant.

And I like the idea of this. You know, the Apple Watch kind of showing you what's going on. You know what it reminds me of? The Pebble interface. Oh, I was going to say the Google Assistant. It reminds me of the Google Assistant. It's a list of here's what's coming up. But I think it was Pebble 2 when they created an interface that was just like this,

where it was a historic scrolling list of things that I think you needed to know were the most important at the top. So it's trying to use the proactive Siri stuff to be like, we know you've got an appointment here. Here's what the weather is and trying to learn about you. So I like the idea of this. I just feel like personally, like it's not bad, but I've never really gotten a lot out of the proactive Siri assistant stuff. Yeah, I think it needs to be better. The stuff that I've seen,

at one point they popped up a, your ride to your office will be an hour or whatever. It was one of those. And I thought to myself, oh yeah, those announcements I get from time to time that I ignore because they're not relevant, right? So they need to be better. They need to be be more relevant but if they could do that right then it's not fantastic right it can intuit what you need to see because if it works I said like it

all works properly like that might be all you ever need to look at on the apple watch right like it's all there you don't need to open any apps anymore because all the stuff you need should be the thing that is on top right like in theory you know if the theory plays out so i'm interested to try it and i'm interested to see how it how it works um but i'm gonna keep my eye on that one right like i think that that could be something fun i'm gonna try it out um the kaleidoscope face seemed just like a nightmare yeah whatever i mean i my my excitement about new apple watch faces is at a low ebb now to be honest the kaleidoscope face is another one of those kind of hands it's one of those things well i feel that

way about some other faces too that i don't understand but they're not for me apparently and then they've they've the disney the beginning of all pixar characters starting to come to the apple watch show editions all disney and pixar characters coming to the apple toy story so buzz and jesse and with like animated scenes when you when you lift your hand again kevin lynch found very funny i i thought it was uh great that he said oh people love minnie and mickey it's like i'm sure they do i'm sure they do i hate those watch faces i don't see why they exist for i'm glad other people like them i would never consider using them they're not for me and you honestly I don't really know who they're for

I had a Mickey Mouse watch when I was a kid but I don't need it now you're not a kid anymore you're a big boy I like some of the activity stuff the personalized activity notifications so learning about your activity data and the way that you work out

and giving you tailored notifications based upon your typical activity, I really like. Right. Because it's not saying to everyone, you should be doing a thousand sit-ups today because that's demoralizing. Right. Right. Right. Right. But for someone like me who sits at home all the time, you know, just telling me that like, oh, hey, you should go and take a 10 minute walk or something. Right. To get what could be your move goal for the day, that kind of stuff. I like a lot of that. I think that that's good. I think it's a good idea to tailor these things to meet that person's individual activity, not just their goals, but the way that they actually move around i think that's good i like the notification that said uh you need to take a go take a 15 minute walk i like that

close your ring i thought that was a nice bit of motivation there new animations which look really good and personal challenges so if you say go take a walk they look really good too and the workout app look really nice new animations refresh ui um you there was an ability now i'm not i i don't think i work out in this way but i'm sure that people do like that you can start one workout whilst you're doing another one um like if you do an interval training and stuff like that i guess that's for show us yeah people look i mean i'm sure that's good for people i like the ui change though because the workout app is really not very good. Like it's just these like small yellow boxes. So I was happy to see some rethinking in the UI there as well.

And they showed off something which I'm sure that Apple Park is full of these new exercise machines with the NFC enabled thing. Honestly, I think it's why they built the feature because they have all these exercise machines that are going into Apple Park with NFC chips. So you can now sync the data between the watch and the gym equipment, which I think is clever. Sure. Oh, and then music. The music stuff is pretty good, too. So it automatically syncs music to your Apple Watch now. I think that's good.

Like, why not? The space is there. Fill it up. It reminds me of, like, the iPod Shuffle, right, where it would just fill up your most recent music for you. I think that's a good idea. Like, what else is going on this device like there's nothing on here it has storage space in it put some music in it and they say it's a perfect pairing with that and the air pods i think that was i think that's really good i think it's a good idea so that's watch os and tv os i mean they were really they speeded they sped through those i think quite a lot just to get them

out of the way yeah and i think that's fine i think i think that's fine i think it was a good thing to give them some time to talk about something but not the only bit of analysis i have about the apple watch announcements is that it struck me watching it that this is the first watch os release that seems like it's a measured forward movement of the of the design like where do we go because there was the original release of the hardware and then they did a they did a watch os 2 update that was um that was that was yeah right and watch os 3 was literally let's just do this again let's take it from scratch let's fix a lot of things it was a rethinking of huge parts of the os so this is this to me feels like oh this is a platform now that they're going to iterate on which we haven't seen before they use this timeline style

interface in a couple of apps that we saw right like that is the it's not a rethinking of the design it is an evolution of watch os 3 yeah and the timeline thing is really sort of an extension of siri that they consider that that siri proactive assistant whatever you want to call it is um which is the thing that reminded me of the google assistant yeah all right jason let's take a break and then we can talk about the mac sounds great sounds great today's show is brought to you by encapsula the multi-function content delivery network that boosts the performance of your website, protects it from denial of service attacks, and secures it from bad guys while also ensuring high availability. Websites of all sizes can be attacked, and this happens every day. Criminals use giant botnets to scrape website content. They try to break into databases and even bring sites down with denial-of-service attacks. But Encapsular's network holds 3 terabits per second of on-demand scrubbing capacity.

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This is where you can find out more about Encapsular's service and claim your free month. Thank you so much to Encapsular for their support of this show and RelayFM. MacOS Hi Sierra. Hi Sierra. I literally thought that that was a joke. Hey Sierra, how you doing? That's all I think of every time. It just sounds

so strange to me as a name. Hi Sierra. Well, obviously it's named in parallel with mountain lion and snow leopard as a sort of don't get too excited kind of thing yeah they started it was like yosemite el capitan yeah so this this was really great sierra is really great we're just going to keep doing that um there wasn't really i mean okay so a few things i've note i think safari autoplay video blocking was good um they then yeah i'm waiting for the think pieces from publishers about why is apple so hostile to our autoplay videos and our

intelligent uh tracking of people and serving tracker ads everywhere on the web why is apple so mean to us why are they trying to destroy us those will those those are already being written oh yeah they were written before the keynote was done but you know could either of us deny that some of the most annoying stuff i've actually noticed this recently on my ipad that there are sites now that yeah are aggressively auto playing video and when you pause them as soon as you start scrolling the page the video starts to play again yeah it's so evil yeah i'll be happy to see a lot of that stuff go away i mean again like i have no problem with advertising but autoplay videos it's just like we're not in the context of expecting audio to start blurring out the machine um photos there's stuff for photos i mean it doesn't just affect the mac but they brought it up here first yeah i think

it's i think it's important and i obviously I care about photos, having written about it so much, that there's so many features that they put up on a slide, but they did add a bunch of filtering in view, they improved the faces stuff. They used the phrase to describe how faces are detected. I wrote it down. It's an advanced convolutional neural network. Of course, I knew that. But they synchronize that data across all the devices because exactly you train them and then you go to another device and it doesn't know who those people are so that's great a bunch of new editing stuff curves selective color some

other things like that for people who complain that they want more editing tools there's also a a round tripping with external editors which is something that was in, I believe, both iPhoto and Aperture, but never was in Photos before, this round-tripping where you edit it in an external tool and it syncs back to the photo library. So that's really big. And in a year when Google announced that they were adding printed books to Google Photos,

Apple announced that they're opening up the printing of photo books and things from Photos, Apple announced that they're opening up the printing of photo books and things from photos to a bunch of third-party products, a bunch of third-party photo printers, including Shutterfly, which I've been using to print photo posters and books for a while now. I found it weird that Google started doing it themselves as well. Like, I felt like this was something that we don't... I don't know if people are using this so much anymore. Like, it felt like a thing of maybe a bygone era,

but obviously I'm wrong. I don't know. People want... Obviously, this is a big... Maybe it's more in the keepsakes and all of that because my family stopped doing those things. Maybe I'm just not in that stage in my life. I think when people have kids,

they become more attached to having these sorts of things. So maybe I'm just not there yet. APFS is going to be the new default so i assume we're going to get the apfs switch over apfs switch over the same way as we do with the iphone yeah it's unclear to me there's a lot of detail to um this is one of those things that will probably be discussed in the subsequent sessions at wwdc and it'll all filter out and we'll understand it better but the idea that as a new default i would imagine that's new systems will ship with it once high sierra ships and that high sierra and then at that default um when you when you format a drive it'll be well you want to use apfs but i i don't read into that necessarily that it's going to

um automatically convert your boot drive in place. That may be an option. It may let you choose to do that. But more to be heard about. Again, this is one of those keynote bubble things. The thing that I am most excited about, the thing I found the most impressive and most surprising, actually maybe in the entire keynote,

is Apple embracing vr so we talked about this i think on a few previous shows and the possibility that apple would especially with ar which we can talk about like ar i had a good feeling about for this because tim talks about it whenever he can and you you have an iPhone with a camera and an iPad with a camera, so you can build that stuff onto those devices now and deal with AR hardware later. We've played all Pokemon Go. Exactly.

But the embrace of VR, I was surprised by, and I kept thinking about people I've talked to who do VR development, and we know some of them. We know more than one person who's talked to us about this, and about the utter unsuitability of the mac as a vr development environment it's a great quote from harmer lucky i remember exactly right when he was the head of oculus that just like it's never going to come to the mac until they make some serious changes until yeah until they're serious

about this and we you know we've heard it you've you know i think you and i both heard it from shahid about having to use a PC. And Brianna Wu has talked about how the Mac hardware just hasn't been good enough. And this was the message here to a development audience is Apple is now at least paying lip service to VR. They showed some impressive stuff. I'll wait for the pros to say sort of what's the current state of affairs in their mind and whether this solves all the issues or not but certainly apple's making a public commitment to vr development as well as ar i was just blown away by it like i'm so excited about that um i don't

want to buy a pc and but i do want to get a really good VR headset at some point within the next year. I am skeptical that the Mac will ever be a VR environment for playing VR. What do you mean? I'm skeptical. I would be, I mean, yeah, if Oculus, if these systems are powerful enough that you can attach an Oculus Rift to them, then great but but i feel like the point is more is the point is more development

this was a development message the ilm demo was a developer we're going to place these things in the scene and then play them back and in the long run i just feel like even if you could in the short term that it's going to be um mobile devices that drive vr in future. They were doing the demo with Vive, HTC Vive. That's a serious equipment. But it was a development demo. And if the Mac can play VR games, is it really going to be anything...

Steam is bringing the VR kit to the Mac. That's it. That's where the VR games are. They're with Steam. Like when Steam came to the Mac. Yeah, okay. Like, so that's it. All right. That's it. That's where the VR games are. All right. So if Steam are bringing their, like when Steam came to the Mac the first time, right?

If they bring the VR stuff to the Mac, that's, it's done. Well, and then they have to bring those games. Yeah. Count me as a skeptic about games on the Mac.

I think people often in cycles get excited about gaming using the Mac and they are, they have generally been disappointed at every turn. Oh, I am a disappointed Mac gamer, which is why I was excited. I'm going to focus about the fact

that they are making a development case here that developers can build their stuff on a Mac and not go to a PC. And you can get some sort of box from them if you're a developer, right? Like there was this... It's an external gpu right uh developer and that's what basically you have to use that for any of their current hardware right if you

want to play but like it looks like stuff like the future maybe the imac pro the next mac pro that will be powerful enough i'm unclear i think that that's related to the fact that just with thunderbolt 3 you can outboard excuse me you can outboard your gpus and so this is the this is the test of that i'm unclear how that's going to work in in reality there was a bunch of updates to the imac line uh which is unexpected right now yeah well we certainly didn't expect it like i mean i think uh most of the people that were contacting us were assuming the imac pro, which we got. Yeah.

But just these updates to the iMac line is great, but it was unexpected. This is the stuff we kind of thought would happen last fall or this spring, and instead they happened at WWDC. Because it just felt like it was not needed. I mean, okay, so the way that Tim kind of started this segment off, it was lip service. It was the lip service we were talking about. He was saying the Mac is at the heart of our company, the core of our company. It's so important to us. So then they spent some time

just showing off a bunch of our hardware revisions as a way to prove a point, I think. Because the iMac stuff, I don't know. It's new specs these are these are the products timing is a little bit weird but these are the products that we've expected the imac and the notebooks that this is the next the imac this is the let's step into usbc thunderbolt 3 and they've got the kaby lake processors in them they've got two usbc and four standard usb so they got all the ports on the back yeah and the usbc are thunderbolt 3

enabled um they've got higher memory capacity better graphics cards better displays it's a it's a full-on update full-on update including the ports going to USB-C in addition to USB standard and I don't think they got rid of improved display again they improved the display in the second round it's again improved from that

in terms of 1 billion color support through 10 bit dithering and it's brighter so they mentioned like for the 27 it starts with a fusion drive like the lowest 27 but i think the 21 still has a spinner well the the low end 21 which is not retina still has a spinner but i it sounds to me like the if you buy a retina imac you get a fusion drive as the base right which you know it's progress I still I still

don't love that there are spinning drives in these things but I understand the cost considerations but getting the basic configuration to just be a spinning drive with no SSD at all getting that out for the retina iMacs is the right thing to do and that low-end iMac I mean that's like a school iMac basically that is that they want to it doesn't have retina they are pricing it to get it to be as cheap as they possibly can and uh and the price cut too that the 4k imac now starts 100 cheaper at 12.99 yeah it's great that's yeah it's all good uh laptops exactly what we thought right uh new processors across the line uh Faster SSDs in the MacBook. Graphics update in the MacBook Pro.

And even the little MacBook Air got a processor update. Yeah, although they just said increase in megahertz, so it sounds like maybe it's an older processor, but they're using the faster one. Which is probably just that the ones that they were using

maybe aren't being made anymore. Exactly right. So if they want to keep selling that product, they have to do something. But they mentioned that on stage, which I would not have bet on. They didn't need to do that, did they, really? It's like, and even the MacBook Air has an increase in megahertz.

You could have just put it in the store. I don't know if that was necessary. Also notable here, I would say, is that the MacBook Escape, the touch barless 13-inch, is now $1299, the same price as the MacBook, which really, I think, hammers the point home that there are two replacements for the macbook air that are retina and they serve different purposes and you can get your one that's that's less powerful but ultra light or you can get the one that's heavier and

thicker but is more powerful yep i'm mac pro man wow wow i took some pictures of it in the hands-on area afterward you know yeah they had one in the corner lit weirdly like it was from space. All space gray, including the peripherals. Yeah, there's a lot of vents on the back, let me tell you that. A lot of vents under the little hinge on the back and a lot of ports. It's, yeah. Most powerful Mac ever made. Yeah, that's absolutely true i mean you could

be already argue that the existing imax are more powerful in many ways but the this is in more powerful in every way than the mac pro raw power and and price i mean this is priced like a mac pro it is no wonder that the rumor is that these products were um that the imac pro was designed for a world without a Mac Pro that the initial conception was they were going to kill the Mac Pro entirely and this was the replacement and then they changed they shifted gears there but this feels like that product because you know it starts at five thousand dollars it starts at five thousand dollars and goes up from there all the way up to the 18 core. I do think it'll be interesting to see what the differentiator is. If we look at a year, what's the differentiator between the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro?

I mean, just looking at what you can put in this machine, you know, that you can get it up to 128 gigabytes of RAM, a four terabyte SSD and an 18 core xeon processor why are they making the mac pro like isn't this all you would need well that that would have been the argument of the people behind the iMac pro is we don't need to make a mac pro thing like it's very peculiar and i think the argument is that they the alternative to this let me put it this way. If this product exists, it defines in a strange way, sort of negatively defines what the Mac Pro needs to be. Because what the Mac Pro needs to be when it comes out in 2018 is what the iMac Pro is not, right?

What is it not? And that's a different thing than if there was no iMac Pro, then the Mac Pro needs to be all these different things. But now it doesn't need to be all the things the iMac Pro is. It needs to be expandable, right? It needs to be, I mean, again, it's headless. You can buy an external monitor or a bunch of monitors.

Some people care about that. But the expandability thing, I think, has to be a huge part. Expandableable parts all sorts of custom configurations it has to be that right because otherwise why bother that's it exactly why why even have a mac pro if you've got a mac pro that comes with a with a 5k retina display like the imac pro and the answer has to be because it's providing something that other than that it's not a screen. They could have got everyone in that room a month, two months ago

and just said, we're not doing it anymore, but hey, let me tell you about this iMac that we're working on. And everyone will go, yeah, okay. Right? Like some people are going to be unhappy still,

but it's like you would see that and be like, yeah, that sounds like a really good machine. So I would say, yeah, I would say expandability, configurability. These are the stories that the and they're going to be able to always say i don't want to buy a screen i want to bring my own screen i i we that's an argument that's been going on since the imac first was released i mean if you don't want it just put it under the desk all right but anyway so it it's interesting to

think of the new mac pro in that way that like it now i feel like has to be defined by what how it's different than the mac pro this this the iMac pro we always knew was coming right but it was unclear but the iMac Pro that they have defined today raises more interesting questions about what the Mac Pro is right like if all it is is this then why without a screen is that enough of a justification there'll be somebody out there who's like yes I don't want a computer with a screen I'll bring my own screen I want to put it on under the desk or something that's fine I'm not sure there are enough of those people to justify that yeah there's got to be more like there's got to put it under the desk or something. That's fine. I'm not sure there are enough of those people to justify that.

There's got to be more. There's got to be more to the argument. And that will be interesting to see because this is an iMac that is a Mac Pro. And it seems like not even a little bit. This was really exciting. Even for me, I still care. I do care about the Mac,

but it's not my big, it's not my number one platform, but, like, that iMac is a very exciting machine, you know, like, we do, both of us, we do some things that are intensive on the processors, and having more cores is better, right, for some of the stuff that we do. Now, I don't think even me or you are going to be buying this machine, if ever, anytime soon or at all. But I'm pleased to see it. I think this is good. I think this is really good.

You know, potentially, like the Mac Pro could be something that fills more price points, right? It could. In fact, I was talking to some people about how the iMac Pro, you know, it packs a lot in, but sometimes you look at it and you think, yeah, but I don't need all those things. I only need a little bit. And it's five grand.

Right? So if the Mac Pro is ultimately configurable and bring your, think about the Mac Mini. I'm not saying the Mac Pro is going to be the Mac Mini, but think about the Mac Mini, which was bring your own display, keyboard, and mouse, right? Mac Pro could be more things to more people. And I know that seems counterintuitive. The Mac Pro might start a lot cheaper than the iMac Pro. But you might only get half of it. But I think that's it, right? Is that it may start cheaper and go up to way more expensive because it will be supremely configurable.

So if you want a lot of cores but don't care about GPU, you could configure it that way. And if you do want a lot of cores but don't care about GPU, you could configure it that way. And if you do want a lot of GPU and don't care so much about CPU cores, you could configure it that way. It's possible that that will be an approach they take. It's the, you know, basically, our other offerings don't do it for you? Well, configure this thing and stick a monitor on it. Today's show is brought to you by squarespace use the offer code upgrade at checkout and you'll get 10 of your first purchase you can

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And you'll also help support this show. Thank you if you've signed up for Squarespace. And if you're going to, I thank you also. And we'd like to also thank Squarespace for their support. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website. iOS. iOS has broken down into two really big categories of many features.

Yeah. iPhone and iPad, and then iPad on its own, right? Because like with iOS 10, everything we see in the iPhone, the iPad will benefit from. But what we didn't get with iOS 10 was what we got in iOS 9,

which is any specific ipad features now i will say spoiler alert they blew my mind today and i am so freaking excited to talk about it but we have to talk about the iphone first because we must observe the order of the keynote we must so messages redesigned app draw making it easier to get to stickers brilliant like that looked great to me that's one of those things nicer that's the did they would they follow up the major feature that they announced last year with some fixes to make it yeah they did and they did messages in the iCloud uh this is something that I always forget I think it exists it doesn't exist which is hilarious yeah that your devices are out of sync when it comes to messages which

is infuriating yep also old messages full of photos and videos stick around and load down your phone so yes with messages syncing in iCloud basically your message histories will be stored in iCloud which means that they're purgeable, which means that older ones can be removed on the device and they'll still be there if you need them in the cloud. I have like eight gigabytes of messages on my phone. Yeah, and your devices will sync so that the conversations will stay in sync across.

It's something that should have... It's one of those things that should have been there a long time ago probably, but it's good to see it. Apple have nailed something with iCloud because they're... They're just pouring things into iCloud now like with the photo stuff right they found a way to sync that data they found a way to get

the messages off your devices because it's all about the security encryption with them right once they can get that right they can move it away something under the hood has changed for them they've developed something that is allowing them to store this stuff safely and securely in iCloud and i think we're seeing some fruits of that, and I think it's fantastic. Apple Pay peer-to-peer. That recode report from a few weeks ago completely nailed it.

And I did not expect... I mean, we spoke at the time. We both believed that this would happen. And it, I believe, happened quicker than I expected. I thought this would just be a September thing. Talk about it when the new phone comes out. But they're talking about it now. It's just a messages app.

Then you just send people Apple Pay money. And then you have the little virtual card, which we were talking about, which stays in the wallet. You can use it to pay, or you can use it to transfer to your bank account. It's going to be fantastic. This is great.

And also, what a great use of a messages app. More people are going to learn about Messages apps now. It's a little bit of a proof of concept, isn't it? Siri, new voices. Sounded good. I like the way that they sounded. You know what it would be like? Sunny.

Sunny and sunny. I like that. I am surprised. I thought this would be a keynote about Siri. It was not.. It was not. It was not. I thought that they were starting it here, right? Yeah, the hot takes will come about Apple's confidence in Siri.

But I thought this was an opportunity for Apple to tell a big story about how Siri is great and now it's everywhere. And they did not tell that story, which suggests to me that maybe there is a little bit of a lack of confidence in making Siri the central part of a product and the recognition that there needs to be more work done there,

more progress made. So what we got was new voices, which are great. I liked how they discussed there's a male and female voice there are a lot of americans who don't even know that that siri is not always a female voice siri's a man to me because that's the default because he's got the top hat of course and he's your butler um but we get you know they got a new visual interface for siri they've got a translation translation's awesome right it's like english into like five languages right now but it's expanding but the idea that you could just

say like what's the way to the train station and then it would be able you'll be able to hold the phone to someone and it will speak it to them yeah that's brilliant yeah i really like that i'm excited about that and they added more stuff to siri kit but not good but not a lot now i didn't i don't know i only got caught a couple because this was so fast they were like flicking through these slides so quickly but like i saw stuff like tasks notes and qr codes there's stuff but um it wasn't quite as as much as i had as i had kind of hoped and i didn't see anything think there was audio stuff. And I didn't see anything about, yeah, audio, about podcasting and music play and stuff like that,

which is a real shame if those haven't been added. Talking about podcasts, one of the slides redesigned podcast app for iPhone. Yes, whatever that means. Camera. You called this, and I said at the time I did not think that they would update the camera at WWDC in software.

That's right. I thought later it would come with the next iPhone. I had to get something right. Hashtag Jason was right. Better compression of videos and images. They're using H.265 now on this new image format. Half the size of previous. Good stuff.

Yeah, I think it's funny that now, and we'll see how they had to reassure people, your sharing will be fine, but that they're actually storing internally, the lossy still image format they're using is based on the same HEVC kind of thing for stills. And that's the native version, and it's smaller than a JPEG. that's the like native version and it's smaller than a JPEG, but in the end, you know, nobody's using that in their apps.

So if you want to share out something, it'll convert it to a JPEG with the, whatever size it needs to be for that. So it'll be, we'll, there's some potential for some interesting and wrinkles and confusion and weirdness there that we'll have to watch. But then then and they did this is one of my point totals right is the um expanded support for dual camera photos and

hd hdr stuff and a depth api yeah absolutely i was so happy about because i keep i feel like i talk to people about this in person but never talk about it on shows which is my love of live photos and how i think it's one of the best features apple has introduced to ios in the last few years i love live photos they're fantastic they add so much to some images right like you can take it you're gonna have an image which might not be a great image but the live photo has this fantastic really funny animation in it and they made a they look like the live photos that they were showing like a much higher quality capture which i guess by doing this new compression they can capture more high quality video when they're taking the photos i really like that you can choose the key image

now from the from the video because you don't always get the moment that you remember your high quality still isn't always the right exact moment and then using a bunch of really cool machine learning stuff uh they got some looping and all this type of stuff fun effects that you can do they did that long exposure thing right where like they caught the water that was moving as if it's a long camera exposure so it has that weird interesting effect to it which i can't explain but camera people can but But it looks really cool and I'm happy to see them doing more stuff there because I really love live photos

and I'm happy that it hasn't become a forgotten feature like that there is more and more added to it in this version of iOS. And then Control Center. So this was like step one that we didn't see, right? Like why does Control Center look the way it does? Well, it looks that way because of the iPad, ultimately, and what they're doing there, I think.

But Control Center's one pane now, and it's got a bunch of switches. It looks nicer. Not customizable. I think Control Center, one of Control Center's problems was the idea that it had grown to be three pages in size. It's crazy.

And now it's all one, and it looks nicer, and you can use 3d touch on them to expand them to the bigger sizes but it has like quick actions right there i think that looks really great and i'm excited about that something i do not understand at all jason is that the lock screen notification center are the same thing now i don't know what that means the demo didn't help me i don't get it i guess we'll have to see it my what i would say is i am frequently frustrated that i get a notification i pick up my phone to see what it is it reached touch id uh reads my thumbprint um and i'm whisked away to the home screen and i can't get back to

that notification and i swipe down notification center and hope that it's the top one there. And I wonder if that's what's going on here is the idea that that is a permanent feature that the time and your latest notifications stay there and then you can go back and view other ones. But we'll have to see how it works in practice. From the chat room, Control Center is customizable. So this is something from the ios

11 page ios 11 lets you customize the redesigned control center so you can change the settings for the things you do most want to be ready when inspiration hits add a voice memos control want to dim the lights in the dining room with a tap add home controls or use 3d touching control center to unlock even more commands great nice it's customizable uh do not disturb when driving was cool yeah that's that's a feature that that um that is a long time coming and need to be there i think it's good i think it's actually also good because it lets the phone explicitly know that it's in a no visuals mode um and there are ways to override and stuff like that. But what I like about that is that I wonder if that potentially means

that that's an extra cue for Siri to be more verbose. Possibly, yeah. Which it should be, right? And say, I'm going to speak to you now and I'm not going to even try to throw things up on the screen. My favorite part about it is the fact that you as the driver are unable to break let things break through you put it in the hands of the person communicating with you yeah i think

that's a really smart way of doing it like it's the the inverse of the way that do not disturb right works right now like if they would have just said i'll have it light up every time my wife texts me well that's not going to be any good right but the fact that you if you sent something to me while i was driving the phone my phone kind of sends you a message back it's like hey i'm driving if this is urgent reply urgent and we'll ping the phone reminds me of slack slacks do not disturb i feel like maybe there's some inspiration taken there because that was something i hadn't seen before right the idea of like this person has do not set, but you can break it if you send the message again. I like that.

And so I'm pleased to see that there. And I like the idea of when the driving idea of putting it in the other person's hands, I think makes a lot more sense than having to confuse the driver or complicate the driver when they're attempting to drive the car, right? The App Store, Jason.

Now we have the Apple Musification. Yes jason now we have apple the apple musication yes the app store has apple music it's it's a new look we'll have to see how it works i think developers are really curious to see how it works the one thing i walked away from that demo thinking about was it looks to me like apple's app store editors who traditionally never really get seen they pick featured apps and might write a very short blurb yeah um they showed off some like feature stories about apps that i think are written by app store content it is my understanding that apple has been aggressively hiring for App Store editorial teams recently. Yeah. And this would be why. Yeah.

And they were talking about showing, in the tab, the homepage tab, showing, well, they have Monument Valley 2. Yeah. Surprise. Hello. That's available today, by the way. Just go to the App Store and search Monument Valley 2.

It's $5. I have it. I cannot wait to play it. That is going to be my airplane. I'm keeping it for the plane home. But they have a whole feature story and they talk to the guy from Monument Valley

and all that, right? And so, that's interesting. When I've talked to people about Apple's editorial things, it was very much like, you know, you're picking apps.

That's what you're doing. And that is, this is one of those Phil Schiller things, I think, which is, why can't we hire some good writers and write little pieces about these great apps to feature them and make people excited about them? So they did, apparently.

And Apple has acknowledged that there are two types of software available. Games and apps. Yes. And they have split it out. There's dedicated tabs, dedicated charts. I think this is a really good thing for independent app development.

Yeah, it's great for everybody who is not a game developer. I think this is good. I think this is really good. And also the pages are richer, more videos and stuff like that. It looks really great. Machine learning, there's Core ML,

Core Machine Learning. Okay. Sprinkler and everything. Yep. I haven't really got anything to say about that but it exists ar kit looked awesome the demos they were showing wow that demo from the wingnut people when the little guy jumps off the table at the end i think it's gonna be really fun for games jason i'm really excited about this for games i think i think for the phone like this makes more sense than vr because phone vr is not that good well and as as someone who's played pokemon go um their little quick demo of like here's what pokemon go looks like with

their ar kit yeah and the ball like skitters past and kind of like rolls up into the grass and all that it's like there's a lot of potential here for everybody to be able to take advantage of that. I really liked that Apple were like, here are the tools. They had nothing to show. I thought that was awesome. There wasn't like a here's what we can do in Maps, which is the obvious one. They're just like, look, this is some stuff we built. Here's a couple of

people who came in that built some stuff. Here's the tools. Go and make something awesome. I'm really excited to see what happens come september for when this when this phone because when this comes out to see what kinds of ar games are existing i think this could be really really really fun and i'm very excited about this all right we should talk about the ipad we should but before we do that oh look at that we're in the same room we both know what can i just say before we do i'm so excited about this jason snow the

ipad yeah and not just that i'm about to tell you about mail route and we can say mail bagging in We're in the same room. We both know what we're reading in my hands here. I'm so excited about this, Jason Snow. The iPad? Yeah. And not just that I'm about to tell you about MailRoute and we can say mailbagging in person? Okay. But I'm really excited about the iPad. All right. Well, you're going to have to wait

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Mailbagging. Mailbagging Jason Snell. My gosh. I was on tenterhooks. Right? I was really nervouserhooks. Right? I was really nervous for a couple of reasons. So, usually these things go two hours.

We're about an hour and 40 minutes in. The iPad has not been mentioned. So, I had some hope in that there were iPads sitting on the table where they did the AR demo. Yes, I noticed that too. That gave me hope. Yeah.

Now, I'll tell you what I was worried about. Obviously, I was worried about the software. I was also worried about Apple only doing a 10.5 inch. I really didn't want that to happen. Now, my plan here, by the way, is to, I'm going to get the 10.5. I'm not going to upgrade my 12.9. I want to gonna get the 10.5 i'm not gonna upgrade my 12.9 i want to see if the 10.5 is right for me because my assumption again i don't know we don't know this yeah we don't is if you can run two apps side by side in full on the 10.5 like you can on 12.9 if the

resolution is the same if it is i wonder if that best of both worlds approach will mean i don't want the 12.9 anymore it's possible but i want the 12.9 to exist for the line right well and it does but i was worried that they were my two worries especially as they began the presentation as well it seemed like you know they started with like the 9.7 inches our most popular model i was like oh no like i was there too i was there too and they popular model. I was like, oh, no. Like, the 12.9 is going away. I was there, too. I was there, too. And they also at one point said, oh, this is the thing that everybody's going to love.

And I was like, and also the 12.9 is available for those who love it, which I also do. It looks like the 12.9 is maybe not getting 100% of the features the 9.7 is getting. But it is. Really? It was difficult to tell for me, I think. I think in the presentation it was difficult to tell me i think i think in the presentation it was clear that everything was going everywhere and in fact the reason that i thought that okay was because they announced as new some features that aren't new to one of them

right okay right because they announced like usb 3 is new it's not new the the uh the the 12.9 has usb 3 all right i mean you're, I'm looking through it right now. They announced the refresh. They both get the chips and all that sort of stuff. That ProMotion thing with 120 megahertz refresh, I think the 9.7 iPad Pro did that. I think it did 120. Maybe it only did 60. I don't think it did 120.

But it did variable refresh. I can tell you that. Yeah, we know that. It did variable refresh. I don't think it was at 120. So the way I read this was that now they all do all of it. I'm looking through the product page right now, and I think you're right.

It looks like that. But it was weirdly placed in the keynote, where they were showing one and not the other. But the 10.5 looks great. Screen's 20% larger. It still only weighs a pound. Yeah, looks like it is that math. Full-size on-screen keyboard.

That studio-neat math that it's essentially... The Dan Provost math. This is basically the 10.5 is the iPad mini of the iPad Pro 12.9. It's a shrunken down iPad Pro 12.9 screen. So higher pixel density. It looks like a new smart keyboard for that one. Yeah, well, because the dimensions are different

so the smart keyboards are different it means that that keyboard is going to have bigger keys than the 9.7 which they said

allows it to be declared as full size in 30 languages yeah which is huge as we remember from months lots of people being frustrated

by the fact that that original smart keyboard was just US only forever A10X is in this I think for the A10X is in this. Think of the A10X Fusion chip. Six cores in an iPad.

Yeah. Three high performance, three low power. Yeah. 40% faster graphics. Still 10-hour battery. That's classic 10-hour battery. This thing is a monster machine. No, it's serious.

iPhone 7 camera. Yeah yeah front and back iphone seven camera mike if only there were if only ios could be adapted to be more powerful if only to allow a device this powerful to behave a little bit more like a traditional computer in terms of productivity features the very first thing they showed, I started screaming. The dock. When they put that dock on there, I just screamed. Because I didn't think they were going to do anything to the home screen. And they kind of didn't.

But this is something. You take an app, it goes into the dock and it lives there the dock can be brought up from anywhere yeah that's the thing i don't know how you do that i mean before the dock was literally like well these are the apps that you see on any page of the home screen but now the dock is much more than that there are there look like there are more apps packed in there you can swipe up it looks like a little bit like what federico was imagining with the shelf right like there elements of it in there. That was more for data, but this is a place

that you put your most important apps, and there's a predictive area off on the right side. And you can get recent stuff from the Files app. And it's got a contextual pop-up, basically, for at least some of them. So it's very much reminiscent of the Mac stock, and not the

traditional iOS dock. And the, the multitasking is better than I ever could have imagined that you just can just drag an app out and it just hovers there and then you can put it wherever you want. So slide over seems to now be, well, no,

it's still, he still called it slide over slide over. Now doesn't mean you slide it over from the right slide over now doesn't mean you slide it over from the right slide over now means you can slide it over to the left or the right it's a picture in picture did you notice that it's floating on top of the other app you actually can sort of see the the edge there so it just kind of floats there when you're using it and then you can tap the edge and then it pops into place if you want to have it be uh view. Otherwise, it'll just pop back down. So the control center's gone. Because now control center is how you invoke multitasking.

One swipe up, and it goes to this beautiful expose-like view. Right. So you swipe up a little bit to bring up the dock, and all the way up to bring up its expose, its mission control. You get all the control center stuff. Spaces, basically. The thing that I... I mean, we spoke about this. I know I've mentioned this in the past. it's everything it's mission control you get all the control centers spaces basically the thing that i i mean we spoke about this i know i've mentioned this in the past the ability to pair apps together yeah i wrote a whole article about that at one point that i wanted to be able to do

that and i kept thinking of the mechanisms for it and it's funny we've talked about this so long now because it's been two years that we've hit on a lot of this yeah along with all the things we didn't hit on because i feel like oh at some point we talked about spaces as a way to do this and here it is when we were talking about windowing yeah right so when we're having that big discussion about whether the ipad should get windows we were talking about the idea of there being spaces and paired applications as a way we prefer it i'm just i'm smitten i really am i'm so excited about this yeah you know it's going to be in the details but it looks great and drag and drop looks fantastic drag and drop looks oh the multi-selection thing see and that's you talk about federico's mock-up of the doc and and i remember seeing it

at the time of the that shelf and thinking remember seeing it at the time of that shelf and thinking what you really want to do is be able to drag something from an app to another app that's running that isn't currently visible yeah and that's what they did so now you can drag and then drag it into a into one of those other apps and it'll come forward and then you drop it images text url attachments from files files my okay this application yeah it's it's all i need i was sitting next to uh dave hamilton who's been writing about the mac for a very long time and he turned to me and he said it's not right for us to be this excited about this because it is just a file browser and yet it is also the final crumbling but imagine you're in a totalitarian state where files are

outlawed then a file browser is the greatest prohibition is over it is over this is the final crumbling it started with the iCloud drive app this is the final crumbling where the the people who bring you iOS are saying, you know what? Yeah, you probably have files. Maybe we should let you use those files. And I will point out too, another little crumble is Mac style. It's got in that sidebar,

which is very much like a Finder window in the Mac. Don't call it the Finder, it's files, but it's a little bit like the Finder. One of the things it's got, it's i little bit like the finder um one of the things it's got it's icloud drive icloud drive has been the fake file system in the ipad for a while now right it's like oh well you you do have a file system it's icloud drive and it syncs but it's still you know it's still files and folders now if you look at the locations it's got it's got icloud drive it's got dropbox box other things that use that third party just real quick on that

yeah i just finish your point and we'll come back and it's got a thing, Box, other things that use that third-party thing. Just real quick on that. Yeah. Finish your point and we'll come back to it. And it's got a thing. They didn't show it other than just in the sidebar called On My iPad. Oh. Well, what's that? That's local storage. That is unsynced. It's got to be, right?

Unsynced local storage on my iPad, like on my Mac. It's not in iCloud Drive. It's on my iPad. Oh, my Mac. It's not in iCloud Drive. It's on my iPad. Oh, I don't know. I don't know what that means. I don't know either. Photos? I was thinking it could even be files.

Or maybe it's even, it's like by app in the little app storage areas, right? Here's the thing that I'm so excited about that they did. What they could have done was just say, and document providers will be able to integrate with this. But no, what did they do? They went to the companies, and they've done it in advance.

Yeah. And then they put their logos on the slide and name-checked them. Yep. This is the commitment from them. So what we got today was what Mac users got a couple of months ago this was a reaffirmed commitment doing stuff like that and name checking these companies that is because

they know that this has to work and it only works with the buy-in so getting that in advance is huge it's huge like that look i don't care that Finder is on the Mac. I don't care, right? You can make your jokes, right? Go for it. But for iPad users, this is amazing, right? Because what they've done is, look at all of this stuff. They have reimagined macOS for iOS.

And that's the key point. I saw somebody sort of cynically tweet about how oh great um finder on the ipad that's not what that's not what you want you want to uh you don't want to bring the mac to the ipad it's like they didn't bring the mac to the ipad they took the ideas they took they created an ios file browser we'll see how good it is right and we gotta use it expose and finder they took the eye what those things are supposed to provide, and then they made the iPad versions of them. Because, like, the dock, when you don't...

You can click an app and it'll open it. But if you drag something on the Mac, it just gets rid of it from the dock. It doesn't open it in a pop-up window. Like, this is different. And I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Now now i did a lot of stuff for the pencil which looks really good i think that i might begin to lose my ability to navigate

my interface with the pencil because it looks like that they're doing more here but i said this i was watching the keynote with gray this morning and we were both proponents of the ability to use the Apple Pencil for UI, and when it was taken away in like an iOS 10 or 9 something, we were really upset about that. But my problem with it at the time was it seemed like it was just taken away to give nothing, because they took it away and there was no new features in the beta.

But here, if I can't do that anymore, okay, I now have all these amazing features that i can do with this like system-wide markup inline drawing and notes of mail like if you're gonna take away a feature give me something else in return and this is it with the most awesome one of these being if you take a screenshot it like minimizes down to the bottom left so you can tap it mark mark it up, and send it off. We do have a Twitter verification that in the developer release 1 of iOS 11, Pencil still does work for you. I'm so excited.

Jason, they gave me everything. They give me everything I want. I am just... I wanted to mention a couple of features that people were really happy about that I think are nice features but I want to point out that they're also features that have been around a long time just not from Apple one of those is the document scanner which you've been able to do in things like scanner pro for a long time but like who doesn't have one of those apps that needs it exactly well the answer is there are people who don't know they exist and now it'll just work in photos and that's great you know or camera in search the ocr and that was the other thing i was going to say which is that's

also a feature that's of course that's been out there in a million things but now it's in notes and that's good it's good let's just get we'll give them apple credit for sure implementing those things that have been elsewhere that they should have implemented because they have implemented them now. Good for them. They give me everything I want. I'm thrilled. I'm genuinely thrilled about this. I am counting down the days now. I sat there positively giddy.

I was screaming and laughing. Typing onto my iPad because, of course, I use my iPad today. I can't wait to see federico i haven't seen him i saw a picture of him he was looking pretty happy i saw a picture of him almost praying uh but i i think i'm just gonna hug him because i know this is everything that we want and i'm so excited about it i can't wait now i don't know if we call this the main event I think we were expecting

it to be the Siri speaker called HomePod HomePod I don't like the way that sounds I don't like the way it sounds you'll get used to it but I think it's a good name I was thinking just the other day about how

the iPod name has been brought back with things like like airpods and earpods and so i think it's good i think it's a good name i need it used to it um because it's it's so far away from any of the names i would have expected them to call this product. I kicked myself when I heard it. I was like, of course it's HomePod. Of course it is. And it for a while seemed like this was literally just an Apple Music speaker. It took them a long time to talk about Siri and this thing. Well, so we talked about Siri before.

It's worth talking about it again. This is where Apple chose not to focus this product. This product is an Apple Music product, not a Siri product. And I think that's maybe a good choice. Well, it's a good choice if they didn't have all the Siri capabilities that we were hoping they would have, right? Yeah, I think they have their confidence in Siri versus their confidence in Apple Music, right?

It is still driven by Siri, but it's a music product first and foremost with those speakers and access to Apple Music and presumably multi-speaker sync because they showed that in that one example of you could have two of them. But yeah, so it's interesting. It's Apple's first venture into the home speaker market

since the iPod Hi-Fi. It's cheaper than the iPod Hi-Fi was. That's good. 349, you called that? I called it. I got something right. Dan Morin was really excited when the price was announced because you got it.

I'm happy that UK, US, Australia is when it comes out in December. It really is an Apple Music focused device and they spoke so much about the filling the room sound and analyzing the room and all that sort of stuff it looks kind of nice I'm not sold on the design I think I was hoping for a little bit more I don't know what but I think I was

hoping for a little bit more I really thought it was going to have a screen on it I'm very surprised that it doesn't I fully support that because i've been you know i've been happy with my echo me too but i'm not having a screen and and i my fear was that if apple put a screen in it they did it because they weren't confident enough in their voice controls and they were going to punt things to the screen like they do sometimes on the iphone and this way they don't have that excuse one of the things we were talking about

last week and you we were talking about it when we were saying about what Siri can do on the Mac, is that Siri is this weird thing which is just subsets of functionality by device. And it's happening again. They said, we're bringing some aspects of Siri over. We're working hard at that. And they spoke about ones that are relevant right home kit it would do all the home kit stuff it play your podcasts yeah but it's not everything and i assume it'll play play podcast sort of ideally synced with the same syncing engine

that they're used on the podcast app on ios and it's going to use the podcast app on ios so i'm not going to get what i want which would be to play with other cars because it doesn't look like that that is a part of siri kit still right except you may be able to like airplay to to it sure but it's not what i you know that's not what i want to do i mean i can connect my phone to bluetooth with my echo and play it fine i'm not really not sold on this i i'm actually a little bit down on it compared to what i was hoping it would be um it looks nice it looks like it would do some good stuff like the hardware looks great but you know what though i don't really play a lot of music at home like just out in the house we don't we're not really a family that very frequently plays music we do we do and we have

company but like when me and adina are home there isn't unless we're like doing a thing like if we're just like hanging out there's not really music playing um so i don't know if this like purely focused on music product is the right one for us i want to see more about what siri can do with. That's what I want to see. Yeah, the way it's engineered and the way it's priced, I feel like if you don't want to use it as a nice speaker for music playback, it may not be the product for you. This is what this product is for, primarily.

It's music. That's what they're going on. And it does HomeKit. I think that was logical. That was something that I think we all expected. Crazy. Because it's the perfect thing, in fact, to have that, to have a permanent resident HomeKit server basically running. Apple TV will also do that.

And an iPad can do it. But to have it in this device, in the HomePod, makes sense. And Home's in the name, right? So it's got to do HomeKit. And so it does. I don't know. I'm looking forward to hearing howKit. And so it does. I don't know. I'm looking forward to hearing how it sounds and all that.

I'm an Apple Music subscriber, and one of my frustrations with the Echo is that it doesn't have access to my Apple Music library. My Sonos does. And when they put Sonos and the Echo on the screen, they're like shots fired. I like the directness of that, because that was not... Why be coy? That's exactly what they're talking about they're talking about sound quality they mean sonos and they're talking about lady in a can they mean alexa so let's put the echo in the

sonos up there let's you know game on um they announced that there would be sonos integration with the echo at some point probably this year and I'm looking forward to seeing that too because I have Sonos equipment and I have the Echo so if I can tell the lady to play music on the Sonos I might not need a HomePod. This is the audio

equipment like these array of seven beam forming tweeters and an Apple designed woofer. If you like if music is really your thing like this is a product for you i mean i want to see more like i said i think what i what i wanted jason was apple's version of the amazon echo and i i think that right now they haven't necessarily shown me that right they've shown me like it is a speaker that can also do some stuff it well i don't know i would say it is

apple's version of the amazon echo but what they've decided to do is pick a primary purpose for it okay and that's music i feel like they haven't shown me the amazon echo i would actually argue the amazon echo when it came out was a little bit like what the criticism we had about the apple watch when it was announced which is what's it for oh everything the Apple Watch when it was announced, which is, what's it for? Oh, it's for everything. It's got speakers and you can talk to it and it'll do stuff. And so I kind of appreciate Apple's, I'm going to say it again,

Apple's kind of perspective here. It's opinionated design. It's like Apple didn't make a, it can be everything home product. It made a connected speaker with other stuff and some of that is marketing and but some of that is product design yeah okay and we'll see i mean it's it's those decisions will steer it towards some users and away from others and i i wonder where this product line goes from here easy to say it's not going to ship until the end of the year.

But is this it? Or is this the beginning of some other connected home devices from Apple that they nestle in other parts of our lives? Because that's where Amazon is now, with its history with the Echo, is now starting to iterate on all these different variations of the Echo

in different little niches inside the home. Maybe Apple will do that. Maybe this is the only one that Apple cares about. What I'm expecting and hoping is that in six months' time, when they do like what they did with the Apple Watch, they show it off six months' time, they show it again, and they show how much further they've gotten. I'm hoping to see a more full demo.

There wasn't really a demo of this at all in any way. No, and they were in the hands-on area as uh sort of like you could look at them they are they are they were not listing and do not touch no so i'm excited to see little kleenex boxes last week we touched upon wwdc being the start of the year for apple right this is the start of the year yep the the firing the uh the the opening gun has been fired the clock is running the theme of the last year ios 10 to ios 11 it's been it's been a it's been a bad year it's been full of pessimism i feel like the theme of the year has been we're all disappointed in apple right to varying degrees across different product lines i'm hoping for optimism now i feel like they've got their house in order a little bit more

they are showing mac users products right because yeah i don't know if mac users really really are like aching for mac os stuff so much, right? Like how we are with iOS, right? Like I don't think they're looking for that feature that they really need to get their work done. No, they're just looking for the hardware to be updated. And the hardware has now been updated. It was updated in October. That same hardware has been updated again.

And more hardware and hardware you didn't even expect and previews of more. And you know there's still more coming. The iPad. This is, like they said it, and I believe, this is the biggest iPad update Apple have ever done. No, this is the moment where the iPad Pro becomes a computer. The iPad now has significantly diverged from the iPhone.

Absolutely. And it never has really. I mean, like split screen was the start of that. But is, like, the home screen is not the same anymore. Right? Like, this is big. Like, I am feeling right now really excited in a way that I didn't feel last year. Like, last year was a bit of a bummer. As an iPad user, last year was a huge letdown.

But then, like, even on the iPhone, it was like stickers and messages. Like messaging was the messages was the big thing. And it was great. If you, you know, I was excited about stickers. I still love them. Yeah. But that wasn't a huge thing. You excited about stickers?

I still use them. I like, I really liked them. I do. A lot of people still don't, but I do all the time. But this is, I'm telling you man i'm i'm i'm really excited for the next six months so so the next step is people are going to install these betas and we're going to get a better sense of it of how they work and i guess within the next week people are going to have the ipads right because they're coming out next week so i'm sure we'll start to see reviews in the coming days i hope so i'm really i i'm really excited

jason this is great i'm i'm pumped because i i will say like i feel like you know the way that it's been it's been it's been frustrating we spoke about this on the show frustrating to talk about our poor points this year yeah sure but this is like yeah okay and for and for ipad people who did not get the vote of confidence where people were called into a room at apple somewhere to be told that there's a pro strategy coming we just got it we just got it after not really feeling like we had heard anything since last spring when the 9.7 iPad Pro came out. And the promise of the iPad Pro line, which has been sort of laying there since late the previous year when iOS 9 had come out. And it looked like, oh, we're going places. And we didn't really go anywhere.

But today, we got the suggestion that we are now headed somewhere with ios 11 and the ipad pro and really i feel like there is the possibility for the ipad to go further than it's ever been and i was talking to david sparks this morning and he said the best thing to happen to the ipad was sales declining because it is the sales declining which has forced them to do something. To not just take it for granted that if they make a tablet with an iPhone interface on it. The sales declining has forced them

to put this amazing software effort in. I would argue that this is an existential problem for Apple in the sense of outside of the iPhone, what is their core computing future? Like there are two scenarios. There's one scenario where Apple, in the long run, is just an iPhone company.

And there's the scenario where Apple, in the long run, is an iPhone company and a larger scale kind of device company, as they are now. And for them to do that, they need to have a next generation device strategy for that. Microsoft's strategy is, oh God, we have no phones. We better make this good. Everybody's using Windows. Let's just turn Windows into something that can be convertible and be on a touchscreen, and we'll do a different interface overlay and all of these things. Apple's approach up to now has been, well, we've got the

Mac over here, which we're not going to change much, not going to make it a touchscreen. That's silly. And we've got the iPad over here, which is all great. But in the end, one of those tools needs to evolve. And today we saw the iPad evolve. I'm excited about that, because I think that says something about Apple investing a little bit more in the fact that it's going to have professional products in its touch operating system and that means it's building for the future there and that's that's good because i was starting to wonder i'm gonna buy my 10.5 inch ipad do you know i'll tell you something i was just looking at the store i mean i'm very surprised about you know what's not available anymore the 9.7 inch ipad bro yeah it's fine no the 10.5 is the replacement at the store. I'm very surprised about it. Do you know what's not available anymore? The 9.7-inch iPad Pro.

You can't buy it. The 10.5 is the replacement for the 9.7, which means now the 9.7 is the iPad. Yeah. And then the 10.5 and the 12.9 are iPad Pro, and that's a much clearer division now. 512 gigabytes it goes up to. That's a lot of space

for an iPad, huh? So, yeah, wraps it up. This has been a great day. I'm really excited. Obviously,

we're going to know so much more within the next 24 hours, so I recommend tuning in to Connected tomorrow. It's going to be the first, do you know what, Jase,

it's the first time we're ever recording the show as a three-person, just the show, because last year we did the whole RelayCon event. Oh, right. Right, where we had everyone come onace? It's the first time we're ever recording the show as a three-person. Just the show. Because last year, we did the whole RelayCon event. Oh, right. Right, where we had everyone come on stage. It's the first time the three of us are actually recording the show together.

In like the whole time that we've been doing, working together over this last like four years. That's awesome. So, we're going to be doing that. Basically, I assume Steven just gets up and leaves at some point. Because me and Federico are just crying. Steven will talk about Max for a while and then he'll go get himself. Let him talk. We'll be so excited.

Then he'll get himself a beverage. We've got a ton more content coming across the whole network this week. There are live shows on Under the Radar. There's so much stuff. So go to relay.fm. You'll find more there. Thanks again to Encapsular Squarespace and MailRoute. Of course, Jason has a ton more coverage coming up this week at sixcolors.com.

And you can find me he's at jay snell on twitter j s n e double l i am at i mike i m y k e if you are in town please come up and say hi we would love that and uh until then we'll be back next time until next time mr jason snell say goodbye goodbye mike