Upgrade - 15: Upgradians of the Galaxy

Episode Date: December 23, 2014

This week Jason and Myke discuss workstation ergonomics, traveling with technology, and how they deal with online security, then debate how to collectively name the listeners of the show.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 15 today's show is brought to you by igloo an internet you'll actually like dash where you can create beautiful dashboards with just a few clicks and mail route a secure hosted email service for protection from viruses and spam. My name is Mike Curley, and I am joined, as always, by your co-host and mine, Mr. Jason Snell. Hello, Mr. Mike Curley. How are you? I am very well. Mr. Jason Snell, I should have introduced you as a... You know, I have someone calling in from Phoenix, Arizona. Yes. Jason Snell, welcome to the show.

Hi, Mike. I'm a longtime listener and all-time co-host. Yes, from beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, where I'm sitting in the corner of a guest bedroom at my mother's house, where I've recorded many episodes of various podcasts over the years. And the acoustics aren't great, but we will manage. Well, you sound good to me. Mainly you're here, and that's kind of all I worry about because otherwise the show would have been very different just me

just like Jason that's right one man's descent into madness so you very nearly made the decision to record from the road there was some definite discussion over the last couple of days.

Yeah, it turns out that the first part of the journey out of sort of Palm Springs and up into the desert because we were driving from LA to Phoenix is there are actually some no-service areas. Those are not good. Not good for podcasting if we're going to actually talk. But it turns out that further over sort of in the Arizona part of the desert before you get to Phoenix, the service was actually okay,

and I was getting data the whole time. So we could have done it, although, you know, cars are loud. It would have sounded terrible, and it would have been distracting, and my whole family would have hated me because I would have been telling them to not talk while i was doing the podcast and it seems like a bad idea so children be quiet and listen to this one-sided conversation i i did think about uh like recording something for you from out in the middle of the desert just to drop in but then i just decided that would not be worth the effort so here i am so there has been a a wide scale debate uh yes on the internet um over the last week about everyone's talking about it about

the way we refer to our listeners how how we give them a collective name now we had decided on upgraders. That was what me and Jason felt would be the preferred nomenclature would be upgraders. However, we've had lots of feedback, and if you would allow me, Jason, I would like to run through some of the popular suggestions and some of the reasoning behind the suggestions. Popular and unpopular suggestions. So, we have a potential upgrader, Diane. Diane wrote in, and this is what Diane had to say. Please allow me to justify my preference of upgradians over upgraders.

An upgrader is someone who is actively working on a process that will be completed within a period of time. As an example, I was an upgrader from BBEdit 10 to BBEdit 11.0.1. When the download and install were complete, I was no longer in the temporary class upgrader. Consider the suffix eons. I argue upgradians connotes membership in a cohort, not individuals trapped in a temporary condition. Upgradians may be characterized as members of a community

who listen to the Upgrade podcast. We, by that, I mean I, probably listen to other RelayFM podcasts as well. Why probably? Anyway, in a nutshell, that is my reason for preferring Upgradians. I know it doesn't trip off the tongue as easy as that other word, but you're experienced professional podcasters, so that would make no difference. So Diane's view was shared by others. There were many other people who liked Upgradians, but we have some other suggestions. Most of these taken from the hashtag AskUpgrade, which is, we're going to talk about that again in a bit, but that is providing very fruitful.

Oh, yes. There's a lot more in there every week than I expect. Yes, there are also ridiculous things in there every week, which is kind of delightful and also, yes, completely ridiculous. But yes, hashtag AskUpgrade is working well so far. So listener Chris liked the upgraded. There were many people that would like the upgraded, but I don't like that you kind of have to use two words.

We'd have to say the upgraded. And that kind of sounds a little bit like a cult it does it sounds very much like a cult or uh the other thing that it that it reminded me of was the uh the cybermen from doctor who who want to turn you into a mindless uh automaton and remove all your emotions by upgrading you this is not good this is not good and also the cybermen are terrible villains they're They're crappy. Yeah, exactly. There was someone that suggested calling, using the name the Cybermen.

I can't find it now, but that was definitely in there. Wow. That is too nerdy, even for me. We have, at that chip guy, why would upgrade fans be called anything other than Cybermen? Well, that's Chip Sutterth, who is a Doctor Who podcaster, and of course he would suggest that. No, Chip, no. So we also have, we had listener Jason. He wanted to go down the Jason route.

He thought that was good, so he suggested Snellions or Snerlies. I quite like Snerlies. I don't even understand that one it's uh it's it's a mix between our names i guess that's weird uh listener anthony uh he suggested upgraduates but then i kind of say upgraduates which doesn't make any sense because the show's not right upgrade yeah you know and You know? And then co-founder Steven suggested Upgrade Alettes and Snellers. Yeah. Lil' Snellers.

Lil' Snellers. So, Jason. Oh, Steven. I feel like we need to make a decision on this. Like, we need to draw a line in the sand right now. We've allowed feedback from the audience of Upgrade, and they have suggested what they would like to be referred to. What is your feeling about how we proceed?

It's difficult for me. I feel like we have no consensus here. Um, although I think we've got some strong front runners. I also, you know, I, it reminds me of the days of, uh, Star Trek fans wanting to be, some of them want to be Trekkers and some of them want to be Trekkies and all of that. And I should say, I I'm honored that people even care slightly about what to call people who listen to this podcast. Cause probably they should just, you know, listen and then move on with their lives to another podcast. But if we had to make a decision, I like the idea of a sort of a schism where we have to say, good evening, upgradians and upgraders, as if it was ladies and gentlemen. Like,

you could be either. What do they mean? I don't know um i diane listener diane's uh uh suggestion is strong of upgradians but it does sound a little bit like an alien um so or a math problem frankly so i'm not sure i'm not sure um i i feel like the jury's still out and we we need some more compelling uh arguments before we make a final decision what do you think mike well i i do really i also really like diane's uh explanation and and i could be on board with upgradians because it's kind of like guardians you know the upgradians of the galaxy i kind of like that idea sure it's very much like that but i I do still like Upgraders. Because I don't know, there's something about that which is quite fun.

I'll be Star-Lord and you can be Rocket Raccoon. Yeah, I like that. I can deal with that. So do you still want to leave the jury out for one more week? I think so. I think we should vow to settle this matter by the end of the year. But if anybody would like to make other compelling cases, I think upgradians and upgraders are still our strongest. Maybe what we could do is we could leave it for one more week and then maybe set up a poll. Oh, yeah. And we go into 2015 with there being a poll and then the winner.

I don't know, Mike. This is not a democracy. Do we want this to be a democracy? Then we should just call them citizens. That's a good point. Or upgradizens. I've said many times we do not run a democracy here, you know, when it comes to, like, show titles and stuff like that.

Exactly. We could do a poll and then take their suggestion and choose whether to ignore it or not. We could do a poll and then take their suggestion and choose whether to ignore it or not. Let's go into next week and we'll see where we end up. Okay. I think that sounds about right. Now, Jason, I want to take a quick break before we go on to some hashtag ask upgrade submitted questions this week. So I want to play the first of our sponsors this week.

We have a couple of special musical bits. Our first friends at Igloo they requested something was put together and this is the result of that. there's a long intro here oh yeah i'm dreaming of a new intranet Just like the tools I use at home

Where the comments glisten And your bosses listen as you share gifts of Santa working from home. Working from home. Have a fun intranet with'll actually like Isn't that beautiful? Yeah. Those voices, just stunning. Thank you to Igloo, an intranet you'll actually like, for sponsoring that. And I'll point out, actually we have a comment in the chat room

about uh hey we like it when you you read the uh sponsors and don't do the the pre-recorded ads but what you what you may not have understood there is that two of those three singers are me and mike so that that's and then lex friedman is the third so So you were hearing our voices. They just made us sing. They made us sing. They forced us. We had to do it. Igloo came down with their hammers like, you must sing this one. No, it was pure this.

You know, we're doing it. We're having a bit of fun. It's the holiday season. Exactly. If you like, if you really love hearing me and Jason read the ads, it will all go back to normal next week. Not this week. No, you've got lots more songs this week.

You've got more songs today. But I really loved them, and I very much enjoyed warming up my vocal cords for the Igloo. So thank you so much to Igloo. Go to igloosoftware.com slash upgrade. We love those guys. They're great friends, and happy holidays to one and all.

Hashtag ask upgrade. So the hashtag has been alive this week again. And I've pulled out a couple of interesting questions that I would like to go through with you, Mr. Snell. All right. So we have, at Always Breaking, wondered what mouse do you use with the shiny new iMac? Oh, yeah.

I remember I answered him on Twitter, but of course nobody who isn't following me in Always Breaking would know this. So for a long time, I haven't used a mouse in ages. For a long time, I used the Kensington Expert. Is it Expert Mouse? First, it was the Turbo Mouse. I think it's the Expert Mouse now, which is the big trackball. And they have, they added like a little ring around the trackball so you could get the

scroll wheel kind of action. And that was pretty cool. At some point, I think because I'd been using my laptop so much, and I think I might have mentioned this on a previous show, I switched to the Magic Trackpad. And part of that is that the feel of it, you know, in very basic terms is a lot like using the trackball because trackpads were replacements for trackballs anyway. And so the mousing didn't feel that different. Plus I was used to using a track pad on my laptop. Um, and I've had a, you know, laptop as my primary system for most of my time as a Mac user, the last like 15 years is I've had a laptop. So, so yeah, so

the Apple, as boring an answer as that is the Apple magic track pad is my answer. Um, I like the gestures. I like scrolling the the two-finger scrolling. And that's definitely what I use now. I've never, I mean, I can't remember. I guess in college, I used a mouse. When I had a Mac SE, I used a mouse. But once I went to Mac User, actually, in 94, 93, I remember that's where I first saw that trackball.

And one of the editors had one. And when she left, I said, can I use her trackball? And they said, sure, just take it. And I've used that model of trackball up until about four years ago, I think, when I switched to the Magic Trackpad. Have you ever had any RSI-type pain or anything like that of any kind no i think i've been i think i've been really fortunate because um having learned a lot more about rsi i uh issues and having some friends who who have suffered from it pretty severely i mean everybody knows uh i think that john syracusa basically dictates his his uh os10 reviews because he has RSI problems. And since he's a programmer, he's doing a lot

of typing at work and there's no way he could then come home and type articles in his extra time as a writer. So he dictates all of that. And my friend, Sholly McFarland, who used to be an editor at Macworld, she had incredibly severe RSI. You you wouldn't believe the, the physical problems that, that, that she had as a result of being a, you know, at a desk typing all the time. I've been fortunate to escape most of that. I think sometimes I wonder, it's probably just that I'm lucky that it just so happens that I, I haven't had a lot of those issues. Um, uh, because you know, when I was using an Apple two, when I was a kid, that was the least ergonomic thing ever. I mean, I would just sit there and type, you know, hundreds of words, you know,

100 words a minute on this clicky, clacky keyboard that was way too high, and I was contorted into all sorts of weird positions, and somehow it didn't affect me. So whether that was the crucible that, like, did something to make me, it's like a superhero. It's like he's now impervious to all keyboard related injuries. I don't know, but I've been fortunate. Recently I've had some issues with my back and my shoulder where I've had a little bit of a hint of what that must be like for people. And although it hasn't been that big of a deal for me, I can only imagine. So I don't know. I think I'm lucky. I think I'm just one of those people who's lucky to have a body that is not affected by those particular kinds of injuries.

So I think in about August this year, I've had back pain for a while, but I was starting to get quite bad pain in my wrists, arm, and hands. So I knew something bad was happening uh i'd recently changed my desk setup and uh and i was i was working a lot more on my laptop and it was just on my desk uh and that was because you know we were we were preparing uh relay at that time so i was doing lots of stuff for a lot longer periods than usual uh and i was i was recording with marco arment and i asked him a question before we recorded uh i think it was it was episode one of inquisitive because i knew that he'd use he uses that microsoft sculpt ergonomic keyboard right you know this is the one that's got the hole in the middle so i asked him about

it and he was and he basically said the same sort of thing he started to get pain then he totally changed the way that he works so i have a i have like the if you saw my desk i mean people have seen pictures of it there are so many input methods here yeah so i have uh i have my macbook pro it sits on like a griffin stand the stand keeps it high, so it keeps it closer to eye level. I have a Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic keyboard that I use for the MacBook Pro. And I have an Apple Magic Mouse. Magic Mouse? Is Magic Mouse the most current one?

Yes. Yeah, I have a Magic Mouse, which is okay. I use the Magic Mouse because the gestures to swipe between spaces is something that I use an awful lot. So that's why I go with that. But then I also have, on the production machine, I use a Logitech wireless mouse, the MX mouse, which is really great.

I originally bought that for the MacBook Pro to go along with the Microsoft keyboard, but I couldn't get used to not having the Spaces support. And I also use a trackpad. So on the production machine, I actually edit with both hands, which is, I like doing that, so I use the trackpad to zoom in and pan around logic and then the mouse to do more refined editing. Those pains in my wrist and hands have practically completely gone away.

That's great. I think it's because I've sorted out my setup a little bit more. There are a lot of hardware things you can do. I think it's because I've sort of sorted out my setup a little bit more. Yeah, there are a lot of hardware things you can do. There are a lot of behavioral things you can do. I mentioned, I think it was Break Time, that is an app that just reminds you to get up every however long, every 20 minutes, every 30 minutes. And when I've had my little back and shoulder issue,

that's one of the things that I've been doing is just, you know, take some time to stretch and move around. And, and, uh, and I also have a adjustable, it's a sit stand desk. So depending on how I'm feeling, I can, um, that's a way to change it up. And so I I'll sit for a while and I'll stand for a while. My issue is that there are certain tasks that on the computer that I really don't feel like I can do standing. And there are other ones that are fine. And so some, I don't know why it's just psychological, like really, really getting into writing something is something that I have a hard time doing from, you know, from standing. It's just, there's something about it. That's not a, that's not where I do my writing. It does feel like a seating activity.

Yeah. It's just something about like hunkering down and focusing and not doing – maybe I'm standing wrong. I don't know. But anyway, that adds some variety to it that even with the breaks and all that, sometimes I feel like I don't want to sit anymore. I can't sit anymore. And then I stand for a while. And then I feel tired that I've been standing too long. And then I just – it provides a little more variety. And it's great because, you know, when I started working, nobody in most offices cared about this stuff at all and was really thinking about it.

And by the time, you know, even 10 years had passed, there were lots of people with, there are all sorts of different keyboard setups and all sorts of different pointing devices. different pointing devices uh several of my friends have the that um that vertical mouse that it's like a it's like a joystick um on a on a on a cart kind of thing where you basically you grip the the handle of the mouse and it's upright and then you roll then you just roll it around on the on the on the desk um and that's that same idea of like it's getting your wrists out of the kind of unnatural rotation that it has on the keyboard. So we're in a better place now where there are many more options and people are much more aware of this, which is great because lots of people suffer from this. I've been fortunate to not be affected by it. It would be very difficult.

I've seen it happen to other people, and they manage, but it's hard. So I'm glad you found something that works for you so I'm now standing up so we have that alright that's good I figure I should probably do this because I sit for hours recording the shows

oh yeah and I can podcast standing up that's a good one title suggestion someone podcasting standing up is That's a good one. There's a title suggestion, someone. Podcasting standing up is something that's pretty doable. Stand up podcaster. Yeah, that's right. You can do it.

Everybody up. Maybe I should do, I might try and do this. Because I know that on Mac Power users, great Mac Power users, by the way. Oh, thanks. I know that you mentioned that you turn break time off whilst you're recording. Yeah. But maybe, you know, maybe there's, maybe what I think I might do is leave it on and then just kind of stand up and sit down again.

Because really you probably won't notice the difference. I have a very quiet boom arm and nothing else will change too much. Right. Well, the problem is that break time wants you to take a break from using your Mac. And so you get locked out of your show notes and things like that. Yeah, well, I won't let it do that, because you can stop it from doing that, can't you? You can just have it to remind you to get up, so I might do that.

Yeah, that would work. At Landon JH asked, what Apple case should I get for my iPhone 6 Plus, leather or silicone? So I'm currently using... He also asked what color, so we're supposed to pick the color for Landon JHh oh i can help with the color actually all right good good i had a blue one a blue silicone case i would say go silicone for the six plus because it adds more grip than the leather um and that's a really important thing um i had the blue one and i

like the color of it a lot but it was getting really screwed up like the corners were coming apart like so the silicone was coming off um but it was getting really screwed up. The corners were coming apart, so the silicone was coming off and it was exposing the plastic underneath and I was really kind of annoyed by it. And then I was in an Apple store on World AIDS Day and kind of got swept up in it, so I bought the red case.

And it's still silicone, but it feels slightly different. It's not as grippy as the blue one. And this one is staying together really well. I think the problem was, I don't know if they've changed the material. It may well have done. It's possible. But the blue one, it was so grippy that it was kind of pulling itself apart

when I put it in my pockets. That's what I can assume happened, because it was happening at the corners, which is obviously where it's going to be pushed the most as it goes into my pocket. So I would suggest, I like the red one a lot. And of course, if you buy the red one, you are doing something good for the world. So I would suggest going red and going silicone. And all I'll say is I don't have the 6 Plus, I just have the 6. I am still using the Apple letter case, which is the first case.

This is the longest I've gone with any case on my iPhone ever, and it's mostly because I like the added grip on the 6 because it can be a little slippery. And my case is the Midnight Blue, I believe it's called, and it looks great and keeps looking better because the leather starts to wear. And I know there was – I mentioned this in a previous show. We got a comment from somebody who said, I don't like those leather cases because they change over time.

It's like, well, that's what they do. That is what leather is. So I like it. So you can ignore everything Mike said or go with what Mike said, because he does have the 6+. You are an expert on the 6+. I will give that to you over me. I love my 6+, Jason.

But I don't like the silicone cases because they feel too grippy, and they also pick up lint and stuff, and the leather cases don't do that. Yeah, that is one thing. I have to kind of brush it down every now and then. I know you like your 6+, though. That's good. It is great. Somebody has to.

Anyway. I do feel like an outcast a little bit, you know. I make these decisions sometimes that people don't agree with, and this is one of them. I know that I'm going to be like at WWDC, and everyone's going to be like, ha, ha, ha, you bought the big phone. But you're going to find your tribe. You're going to find your people who have the 6 Plus,

and you're all going to be like, oh, yeah, those guys don't know what they're missing. And it's going to be fine. Yeah. It's going to have you're going to find your your tribe you're going to find your people who have the the six plus and you're all going to be like oh yeah those guys don't know what they're missing and it's going to be fine yeah it's going to be fine i just find my i just need to find my people you know they're out there so tell me jason what did joe steel want to know yeah i added this one to the list joe steel listener joe, wanted to know, hashtag AskUpgrade, has Mike seen A Christmas Story? Is that a thing in the UK? And the movie A Christmas Story is actually broadcast on one of the cable networks here for 24 hours on Christmas Day. They just broadcast it over and over again. And Joe just wants to know if you've seen it.

I have not seen A Christmas Story. That's pretty good. I don't really you've seen it. I've not seen a Christmas story. It's pretty good. I don't really know anything about it. It's a, well, it's sort of a memoir kind of story about a guy telling a story about a particularly memorable Christmas when he was a kid in the 50s. And it's pretty funny. You should check it out sometime. It's a good Christmas watch, I would say. Why, of all the Christmas movies, is this the one that's broadcast 24 hours a day? I don't know.

I mean, there are so many channels. You could probably, every channel could get their own Christmas movie and run it all day long too. But I think TBS does that in the US. I don't know. I think they just decided they had the rights to it and they thought it would be a nice stunt.

And it has picked up a following and that following continues. I think it actually grows now because it's become this kind of television tradition that it's always aired all day by one of the major cable channels and uh i don't know i i suspect it's because they got the rights and they liked it but they also they had the rights and they wanted to get attention and so they announced this stunt but now it's become it has become a tradition. We also have Elliot F. on Twitter. Jason, why blame Amazon or Apple for international barriers when it's copyright lawyers at fault? This is following up from a lot of our conversations about international licensing and all of that.

And I put this in here because I don't think it's copy. I think you're right that in many cases Amazon and Apple have nothing to do with this. I don't think it's copy. I think you're right that in many cases, Amazon and Apple have nothing to do with this. I don't think it's copyright lawyers at fault. I think what's happening is a lot of the rights holders for this stuff have erected barriers for the whole licensing regime for a lot of stuff was based on a world where country barriers meant something. And with the internet, they don't. Bottom line, they don't. You can buy something from anyone, anywhere digitally, and it doesn't matter.

And so I think a lot of the things that we see now are a result of that history. And so it had to do with licensing. So in some places, it's the content creators who said, we're going to sell this to you in the US, and you in some ways, in some places, it's the content creators who said, we're going to sell this to you in the U.S. and you in the U.K. and you in Liechtenstein and you in San Marino and you in Switzerland and you and make this like totally arcane set of conflicting licensing arrangements that will take ages to untangle. So I think that's part of it. I do think where Apple and Amazon can come to blame, and I think Amazon much more than Apple, because Apple, if you look at maps, Apple is about the best across all these different digital media at being in lots of countries. It's the prioritization that Apple has made it a

priority to take a lot of its stores into lots of countries. And Amazon really hasn't. Amazon really hasn't. There was a time when if you looked at Amazon's map of where they sold X, it was almost always U.S. and U.K. That was it. Our friends at Mac Stories, they did a great post of who is where. And it has interactive maps and stuff like that i'm going to put that in show notes which you can find at relay.fm slash upgrade slash 15 and it shows like um apple microsoft google and amazon and what services they have and where they're available

it's a really really interesting uh piece and that's where I think you can start blaming people. Because, yay, we love blaming people. If you see Apple in every country and then Amazon's in three, it obviously wasn't impossible for Apple to get in every country. They put in the work and they felt there was some reward. And then Amazon seems content. And I think this is true just looking at their behavior. Amazon seems a lot less interested in conquering the world seems content. I mean, and I think this is true just looking at their behavior. Amazon

seems a lot less interested in conquering the world than they do like really, really conquering a very small number of countries. Whereas Apple wants to conquer the world. And Google, I think, wants to conquer the world. But Amazon has taken a different approach to it. So I would say that's the one place where it's fair. But I think in general, it's all just kind of ridiculous. I understand in some cases, it makes sense that if you're the BBC and you make a program and then you want it to air in the US too, you make a deal where now the US broadcaster gets it and so they can't, the BBC can't sell it in America because the American broadcaster has the rights to it. It makes sense on that level,

but when it comes to things like this book is not available, this e-book is not available in your country when it's available in all these other countries, that's when it gets a little bit ridiculous. Oh, I have one more update. This is not a hashtag askup, but on the previous show we mentioned listener listener Matt or possibly former listener Matt and speculated because he was saying you guys are talking a lot about working at home and quitting your jobs. And, you know, are you going to talk more about technology? And we speculated about whether he was even listening to us. And the answer is he is listening. He's not former listener Matt. He is listener Matt.

he is listening. He's not former listener Matt. He is listener Matt. He let me know the other day that he had listened and he was happy to listen to the podcast. He will be a committed upgrader slash upgradian into the future. Yay to former and current once and future listener Matt.

We're glad that you're still here, Matthew. Yes. Jason, would you like to tell me about MailRoute? Yes, I would. Let's play the song for MailRoute. Here comes MailRoute, here comes MailRoute, right down MailRoute lane. I don't have a song for MailRoute. That's all I came up with. That's all I came up with. Bringing mailbags without spamming.

Oh. Yes, I've said this before. MailRoute, I use MailRoute. It is a server-side spam filtering service. So basically you hook it up before it gets to your mail server. So basically you hook it up before it gets to your mail server. And so it takes your mail in. And using their servers, they do very clever things to detect whether it's spam or not. And they prevent that from even being delivered.

And I started actually using MailRoute when I was still doing some – when I was on a slow internet connection. And the more I could filter out before it reached me, the better. Because, you know, there's client-side stuff that's filtering it in your mailbox. But MailRoute does it on the server. So they take your mail, run it through a spam filter, move the spam aside, and you have lots of settings to say how aggressive or not aggressive you want to be. And it works really well. I think I've had one false positive in the last month where there was a good message in spam and I clicked a link in their daily email to me

and it automatically whitelisted and delivered that message to me. And that person who sent that message will never get blocked again because they're now on the whitelist. And it all happened automatically. I didn't have to worry about it. So MailRoute requires no hardware or software. They just receive your

mail, sort it and deliver it. It's easy to set up. It's reliable. If you're somebody who does email administration, if you're an IT professional, all the tools are built with you in mind. There's an API, LDAP, Active Directory, TLS, mailbagging, Mike's favorite, outbound relay, everything you want from people handling your mail. And if you're a regular person like me, the user interface is a web interface. It's super simple. You can adjust the settings to have it be as aggressive or not aggressive as you would like it to be. And they've got a great deal if you would like to try them out. There's a free trial, and you can get 10% off the lifetime of your account if you decide to buy.

You have to go to mailroute.net. That's mailroute.net slash upgrade. And that's how you will get a free trial, 10% off for the lifetime of your account, and get the spam out of your inbox for good. So thank you so much to the song of the season, MailRoute, for sponsoring Upgrade. Yay! Thank you, MailRoute. Thank you, MailRoute. No, that's not going to work either. We'll work on it. We'll workshop a song for MailRoute. Sorry, MailRoute. We didn't get a song for you this time.

A New Year's song for MailRoute. this time a new year's song from there should spam messages be delivered no i'll work on it jason what would you like to talk about today oh nothing much what would you wrap up what would you like to talk about mike i i this was so we have our little document where we where we conspire to to figure out what we're going to be talking about. And you entered a bunch of stuff in, but then I entered something in. So I guess we'll start with mine. But I put this in. I put it in travel tech because I'm traveling for this week and part of next week.

And every time I travel, I have that thing. And I was curious what you do too. I know you went to Italy recently. What devices do people bring? What's the thought process about devices and accessories that we bring on trips? I mentioned I was able to do a whole lot of stuff from the passenger seat of our car yesterday going through the desert with my iPhone. I edited a file on an FTP server. I did a blog post.

I was answering emails and tweets and things like that. I mean, I was doing crazy stuff just from my phone. And I had that moment of like, well, I could really do everything from the phone. And yet I brought my iPad and I brought my laptop, although partly that's because podcasting sort of mandates a laptop right now. And then my daughter brought her phone,

my son brought his iPad, my wife brought her iPad and her laptop because there was some stuff that she needed that she felt was only going to be on the laptop. So we ended up with this bag full of technology. And then on top of that, because some of the kids' presents involve Wii U games, I brought the Wii U too and hooked it up to my mom's TV. So, you know, basically I have a satchel full of, full of technology that I brought with us. And I have a moment where I think, well, this is great. We just bring our tech with us and then everybody's comfortable. And then I have other moments where I think this is crazy. We should bring like three things and, and just use those for the week.

And I think you could do that, but we didn't do that. So I don't know. What thought processes do you go through when you're traveling? I always take too much. So I think to myself, if I don't have everything, then I'm going to be bored and I'm going to go out of my mind. I always take my iPhone naturally uh sometimes I will take my iPad um on my last trip I took my Kindle and I always take like a handheld gaming console as well and it's probably too much um especially the iPad I very rarely use

my iPad um especially when traveling. Maybe I'll watch a movie on it, but any flight where I could kind of watch a movie, they probably got movies on the flight. Oh, but like on my last trip when I went to Italy, I took my laptop too, because I was concerned that there might be

things that I needed to do whilst I was there. Like, for example, we launched this show whilst I was in Italy. So I was worried that something might explode and I would need my laptop to do it, you know. So I always end up taking too much. And probably in most scenarios, if I have my iPhone and something to charge my iPhone like a battery pack

I can probably get by because I can put entertainment I could put a movie on it I can have my podcast on it I could put games on it too and I can kind of get most work done from it so really I could probably just do with my iPhone but I kind of take i always take more than i need i well i described what we brought so you can see that i agree with you yeah with your six with your six plus especially i i question the need for you to bring an ipad but it's it's there's they're small enough that you just kind of think all right i'll bring it i mean my we drove here so when we're when we're flying obviously i think the the calibration is a little bit different but uh, uh, you know, I, I am also a fan of the best, uh, device for the job. And if I can bring the Kindle and it doesn't really bring things, uh, you know, cause too

much trouble in terms of packing, it's not a very big object. I'd rather read a book on the Kindle and the iPad. I could totally read on the iPad. I could totally read on the iPhone. So I don't know. I have those moments where I realize it's mostly with chargers that it gets me, where I realize that I've got a little power brick that's got three plugs on it and two USB ports. And I bring that and I make sure we get all the charging cables for the USB cables for the iPhones to plug into the USB ports and the bigger charging cables for the iPads and the laptops. And then I've got this just huge mass of chargers and cables. And that's the thing that I noticed more than anything else. And again, I could bring fewer chargers, but then I know that we're going to have to do that dance of, you know, this one's

only got 20% battery. Well, this one's only got 20% battery. Well, this one's only got 10% battery. Like who's got the least battery to use the charger right now? And keeping in mind that I've got a 10-year-old and a 13-year-old. So I've got them, you know, in the back of my mind going, oh, but I need to use it. But I need to use it. I'm like, just bring two. So we end up with a rat's nest of cables and a billion

different devices and a giant heavy bag full of technology um which you know it in some ways we're bringing our uh you know we're bringing our comforts of home with us so that uh the you know part of the challenge with kids especially is how do you keep them entertained on a trip? And the technology can do a great job there where they're playing games or watching movies and all that. And it's not that we don't interact with them on the trip. We do plenty of that. But it is certainly a great additional feature for kids and grownups alike to be able to be in touch with the world and entertained when you're sitting're sitting in a car for i don't know probably 13 hours or something over the course of two days so yeah i don't know it it still seems like it's uh part of me wants it to be as simple as possible

like you could just do this trip with your iphone and then reality start starts to come in and i think i can but i but but why yeah yeah and and unless I'm in a position where like literally there's no reason to bring anything it's going to be a problem to bring things um you know and if you're going on a plane you're trying to travel to pack light that's a different a different story but I don't know um I just, I figure this is what people, maybe people can write in if they've got some stories about this too, about what their strategies are. I'd be interested in hearing it.

I just, I think that this is a very interesting way that our lives work now, which is you end up being in this, what do I bring with me phase that, you know, it's difficult enough when it's how many pairs of, you know, underpants and how many shirts and do I need the shoes and the sandals? Do I need to, you know it's difficult enough when it's how many pairs of you know underpants and how many how many shirts and do i need the shoes and the sandals do i need to you know all of those kind of packing questions and now on top of that you've got the uh you know how many chargers and do i

want an ipad and an iphone on top of it it just adds to the complications of packing and traveling traveling i would uh i would really love to have one charger you know like just one one cable can charge anything and it's like a dream situation you know so i don't have to have like to remember to bring like the five separate cables maybe just to bring two cables, and I know that those two cables can charge everything. Yeah. That would be my real ideal situation, is just to be able to charge everything from the same stuff. Yeah. The USB, you know,

the nice thing is that you can bring one, you can bring one charger part and then a couple of USB cables. And I think you can get most of it taken care of. I mean, it depends. Your portable game device probably has some crazy weird charger. I mean, for me, the Kindle, the Kindle, iPad, iPhone, and all of that, those are all the same. And then the, obviously a laptop needs its own thing.

So I have done that in the past where I've really minimized it down to one charger to the wall and then a few cables attached to the USB port on the charger block. Yeah. Yeah, see, that's not bad. But I kind of end up having to take like three or four different cables just to charge the things that up having to take like three or four different cables just to charge the things that i want to take with me one day one day jason it will all get better and then there'll be more devices and we'll have to take those when we're having to charge our wearables you know

we're all going to have a new cable next year when we're charging our Apple Watches? Yes, sure. Yeah, actually, I mean, that was like the Pebble. If I want to bring my Pebble with me, I've got to bring the Pebble charger because it's a... And I know why it's a custom charger. It's because it's magnetic and they didn't want to use USB or something

because they wanted it to be water-resistant. But the fact remains that it's a custom cable. At least with the Pebble, you could maybe put it on charge the night before, if you remember, and you'd be okay for the weekend, you know? But that is not going to happen with the iPhone. The Apple Watch, sorry.

And the iPhone, sure, but the Apple Watch is not going to work that way. Which is a shame. Yeah. So shall we take a moment and we'll play our final song? The fans have asked for another song. So, I mean, all we can do really is give them another one, and this one is from our friends over at dash well god

it's dash where you can easily create real time dashboards that show information there are dozens of pre-built widgets for services like app figures google analytics github and don't forget twitter Thank you. It's got a great API to share from Dropbox or the web. Things like line charts, speedometers, tables, or used iframe. The pricing model is a lot like GitHub. All the public dashboards for free. For $10 a month, unlimited private dashboards could be yours. So go to thedash.com. They're currently running a promotion.

If you sign up at thedash.com, private dashboards, you'll be able to get one. Go to thedash.com. You don't need no credit card. Go to thedash.com and play with it because it is fun. Thank you so much to Dash. Go to thedash.com and play with it because it is fun. Thank you so much to Dash. Go to thedash.com and you sign up there. We love those guys. I like that song a lot and

I'm happy that Jonathan Mann made it and the Dash guys let us use it. Yeah, originally he did it and it was gotodash.com and it was a song about laundry detergent but he changed it so we all dodged a bullet there it's a topic that you put in a document that i'm interested in because i think about these

things a lot especially when i hear people uh talking about them and maybe maybe this is bad for me to say but security so like securing your devices and and passwords and such. Are you a two-factor authentication person? I am. Okay. So what do you use for that and why do you do it? So I use Google Authenticator on my iPhone and I have it turned on for my Google account and for my Dropbox account. And would enable it for others.

I'm also using Apple's two-factor, which is different because it's Apple, and they're sending messages in various places. But I do it basically. I've decided that I'll turn it on for anything that will let me turn it on because it means that my password isn't the only point of failure. And it doesn't mean that I'm not safe from social engineering, although I think that a lot of companies are getting better at realizing that one of the ways that people hack people's accounts is by posing as them on the phone and begging for a reset. And Matt Honan exposed that when he got hacked. So, um, yeah, I, I just, I just, I turn it on and it's kind of a pain because every so often I have to make sure that

my phone is with me or I have to go get my phone and bring it back so I can put in a six digit password. But, um, but I do it because I like the fact that it doesn't, you know, you don't, if you know my password, you can't get into that account. You still need to add an authentication code. And then also by doing that, it allows you to generate unique app passwords, which means that if those passwords are breached, not only can you deauthorize them at will, but if they're breached, they only have access to sort of the one set of things. So, you know, it's not – I wouldn't say that I've got some, like, super crazy security regime at all. But I try to take advantage of whatever security features are offered to me, even if it's a little bit less convenient. So what kind of services allow for two-factor authentication that you use? What kind of services? Yeah, I mean, because I'm sure not everyone allows you to use two-factor, right?

Well, like I said, the only ones that I'm really using that I'm aware of are Apple, Google, and Dropbox. And those are the ones that I'm using. So my Google account is secured with two-factor. My Dropbox account is secured with two-factor. And then Apple's got their own crazy two-factor where they're sending the messages direct to your device instead of having you look it up on an app. I use the authentication app. And I've heard a lot of people say that they love Authy, which is a different authentication app. And Dan Morin loves it. I've got it. And I just, you know, it's one of those things where Google Authenticator works fine for me.

And the process of de-authenticating and re-authenticating a device is painful enough that I just haven't gotten around to trying it. That's a barrier. And if I don't like it, then I have to deauthenticate and reauthenticate again. But anyway, it's, you know, it's a lot less convenient, but at the same time, it gives me at least a little bit more of a feeling of security in that I've got that second stage, whether that's, as with most security things, whether that's real or whether that's just, you know, a feeling that isn't connected to reality.

I'd like to think that it is, but they offer it, so I decided I would do it. So I'm getting a lot better than I used to be at using one password and generating the crazy long 12-digit passwords and using those as opposed to just things I could remember, or there was a time where I used the same password for everything. passwords, you know, and using those as opposed to just things I could remember or like there was a time where I used the same password for everything, you know? Yeah. And I'm wise.

I have wised up to that and I'm using that kind of stuff. But I've not really got into two-factor because kind of everybody that I know that does use it has many complaints about it for as much as it is secure. It seems like I know a lot of people that have had real struggles with with the apple one and locking them out and stuff like that and not being able to use their iCloud services and i don't know if i want to get into to that level of mess right uh but you know it's one of those things where it's like but but should i you know like what what's going to happen to me and and and i i wonder about these sorts of things because I know that identity theft is obviously a problem.

But a lot of the time I think to myself, what are people actually going to get? And I wonder how – I mean I know that there's so much data, you know, like somebody gets into my you know they can then start to break their way into who knows what but i think to myself what what it what am i actually going to be losing here and i wonder if it's a generational thing that that makes me feel that way like it's all kind of just like it's all just digital stuff and people can take it and then i can kind of just deal with it and get it back or block them out or whatever like what what's going to happen to me? Yeah, it's, you know, security. I mean, if Matt Honan's story has told us anything, it is that, you know, nothing is really secure. I mean, everything is this, I mean, this is the frightening thing. It's like passwords aren't very good. There aren't really any good alternatives. In many cases, the companies involved can reset your stuff if

they want to. And that's terrifying because that means that even if you do everything right on your end, if somebody is charming and calls and begs to be led back into their account, they may be able to gain access. And there's the whole issue now where we have like chains of accounts where, like with Matt Honan, one weak security area where they could reset a password and it was revealed in another backup email address that was shown and they could figure that one out. And it just became this chain where they were able to get into all sorts of different accounts by having access to a couple of things. And so that's terrifying. And again, I, you know, I try to do what, what is right. So I turn on two factor because it's an additional layer. It means that

if somebody were to find out my or figure out my password, they would still need that second factor and they wouldn't have it. And that makes it that much more secure. I do use one password to generate completely random, ugly passwords. I still have low security passwords that I use on some sites, but those are the low security passwords for sites that I don't care, essentially, if people get into them because there's nothing of value there. But anytime I do a new password now, I just have it be the randomly generated one password password and I store it away that way. And again, that's less convenient

because I don't know those passwords and I have to open up one password and I have to copy and paste. But I think that all that us sort of regular people can do is try to follow these suggested rules. It's a little bit like eating your vegetables. Just say like, you know, randomly generated strong passwords

inside something like 1Password is better than having the same password everywhere or, you know, and better than having a password that's super simple. You know, you're protecting your money. If you're doing online banking, you're protecting your money. If you doing online banking you're protecting your money if you're if you're uh you've got places that are storing your credit cards you've you've got

money involved there um there's the privacy like if you've got personal conversations about things that you prefer remain um remain private it's one other risk that you've got you could also argue that maybe you should be aware in general that anything that's got a paper trail like that, you might want to not have those conversations there. And that's really inconvenient. But again, these are all the things that everybody just needs to be aware of these issues. And I think a lot of times what happens is people just aren't aware of them. And it's not their fault that they have personal information in the cloud somewhere. But, you know, trying to be safer about it is better. And people listening to this show

are more technically oriented than your average person. And I think it's on all of us to be aware of what these issues are and also tell our less technically savvy people that you should have something like 1Password, for example, or another password manager that will remember that stuff for you because sometimes that's the hurdle as well. I just can't remember these passwords. And don't write it down on a Post-it note and stick it to your refrigerator.

Yeah, I mean, that's all you know. Those password books, you know know you don't want to use one of those oh yeah yeah well sony apparently had just uh word files in uh and excel files on a server somewhere with all the passwords on it yeah i don't i don't understand how something like that can happen in such big companies i mean i know that things can be i don't know i know that things can kind of get a bit wonky you know uh and there might be some sort of like old system somewhere you know but i just i don't get how it becomes how it gets to that point well and a lot of a lot of services are bottom up where there's uh services people have signed up for i mean i know we had

this at idG where, you know, you've got Twitter accounts that are shared and how do you, you know, somebody has got a, how do you manage who's got access to those Twitter accounts? Yeah. And you know,

we had a, we had a Google doc with the passwords in it. Cause on one level it's like, what do you do? I mean, we had people all over the country. You don't really want it to be one person, uh, who has all the passwords because what happens if something happens to that person?

So I understand why these sorts of things happen. Well, we'll just create a master list of passwords and it's on a server that only these people have access to. So it should be safe. But then, you know, somebody gets access to one of those accounts and there we go. It's, yeah, it's scary. I mean, I think most people won't ever have to deal with it. Um, fortunately I think, uh, but you know, I think it's good for all of us to try and practice what we can to make it, uh, to make it that much safer for, for us. And, and for, like I said, our friends and family who maybe not are not as, as, uh, um as technically savvy as we are. So time of year to be thinking about it, you know,

as you're going home and you can help people out. Yeah, I mean, honestly, the idea of just telling one of your loved ones that if they're interested in, you know, if they're frustrated by passwords or they can't remember their passwords or whatever, that there are software out there that they can use to do that. That's a good step just in that because, and that's not just even from a security standpoint. I mean, in many cases now for security reasons, passwords, stronger passwords are mandated. You know, Apple certainly does that now. And when that's the case, then it just frustrates a lot of people even more. I see this in my family where now they, oh, now I need a capital letter and a number in my password.

And, you know, and then they can't remember it because it gets complicated. It's like, oh yeah, does that have a capital or not? Is there a space? Is there an exclamation point? Is there a dash? What's going on? And so from a usability standpoint saying, why don't you use a little program to store your passwords in? And then you only have one password to remember. I mean, great name, by the way, 1Password. But that idea, there are other password managers out there too. I use 1Password, so I talk about it in that context. But that's not just a security feature. It's a productivity feature. You don't need to remember your passwords and you don't need to write them down in a book that you might lose. I mean, it might be stolen, but you might just lose it. Uh, but you could put it on your, all your devices behind a single password that you remember that you don't use anywhere

else. That's, that's a productivity. That's not just security. Security. Oh, security. It's, it's terrifying. And if you follow anybody on, or something who's a security expert or you read some of these articles, it really is kind of scary. I mean, we saw this with the Sony hack, and we've seen it before with things, you know, including things as, I mean, on one level, ridiculous as the Sony hack, and on another level, as serious as the Stuxnet situation with the centrifuges in Iran. Cyber security, it's a crazy, complicated, and scary topic because I really believe the right way to approach all of it is to accept that a lot of our security is still through obscurity. If somebody wanted to target you and your information, they could do it. And that's terrifying too. And like I said, I think all you can do as a regular person walking around on the internet

is try to follow some best practices and hope everything's going to be okay. And that's not a great, you know, just kind of whistling through the dark and crossing your fingers is not the greatest approach to something like this. But I feel like on some levels, that's all we can do because some of it is kind of out of our hands. It's about these big players and it's about just the good luck or bad luck of being involved in something. I will say one of the things that I really believe in is most websites will ask to store your credit card information and just say no, unless it's a site you use all the time.

Like I've got, I think I've got my credit card stored at like a couple of sites, but there are all these random sites where you buy two things one time and then never again, and they want to store your credit card. And it's like, you know, that's where the credit card breaches happen is at some random site. And you said, yes, store my credit card for later. And then they get your credit

card number. And so, you know, it's, it's, you try a little stuff like that of, well, I'm not going to store it so much. I'm going to change my passwords and all that. And still, are you totally secure in lockdown? No, you know, maybe you decreased your chances a little bit. And, you know, I don't like that feeling, but I feel like that's where we are with internet security now. So, Jason, next week on the show, we want to do our kind of best of the year. And we're going to call it the Upgradies. Sure. Why not?

Why not? That's not a democracy. Nope, that's what we're calling it. That's what it's called. No one's telling me different. So we're going to do the Upgradees, the Upgradee Awards for 2014. Now, what I would really like is for our Upgradeersians to suggest some topics for what they would like us to award Upgradees to.

So you may want the Upgradee for the best app. You may want the Upgradee for the best security management software. Or you may want to be incredibly specific like listener Nick who said what was the most hyped app that was a disappointment and least hyped

app that you loved it's like wow that's complicated simpler than that is better but uh you know yeah we will take your uh your suggestions for what you would like us to talk about for it's the it's the end of the year you know we're all contractually obligated to do best and worst and why not do it in a glitzy award ceremony why not I will be wearing a tuxedo next week. All right. I look forward to that. Just for that.

So if you want to let us know, use the hashtag AskUpgrade. Would be great. Or you can tweet it at us. I'm at imike and I-M-Y-K-E. And Jason is at jsnl, J-S-N-E-L-L. But the hashtag AskUpgrade is good because it puts it automatically in a document and we can pick those out. Yep.

So next week will be the inaugural Upgradeys, which I'm very excited about. I even have some Upgradey award artwork being created. Oh, yes. It looks delightful. Yes, for this very specific purpose. So we can award people with their Upgrade-y badges, whether they want them or not.

They can receive them. So I'm very excited about that. But before then, I would like to wish everybody a happy holidays, a Merry Christmas, depending on however you celebrate. I hope that you have a very nice holiday week, Jason, and to you and your family. And if you'd like to catch the show notes again for this week, you want to go to relay.fm. Thanks again to our sponsors for this week's episode, Igloo, MailRoute, and Dash. And we'll be back next time.

Until then, say goodbye, Jason. Thank you, friends and Upgradians. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. you