Upgrade - 150: I Worry About You, Jason

Episode Date: July 18, 2017

This week Jason is making some big changes in his life, including trying out a to-do app and using his iPad Pro extensively via a cellular network. Myke looks into what’s motivated these changes, and how well they’re working. Plus we discuss emoji, AirPods, and at the very end of the show, “Spider-Man: Homecoming.”

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 150 today's show is brought to you by blue apron mac weldon and encapsular my name is mike hurley and i am joined by mr. Jason Snell. Congratulations, Jason Snell, on 150th episode of Upgrade. Congratulations to you too, Mike. I think this means we've been doing this almost three years. Wow. That's very impressive, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Time flies when you're having fun.

Yes. Couldn't think of a good pun there, so I just went with the actual. Just the actual thing, sure. I have a hashtag Snell talk question that I've been saving for a special occasion, and I have deemed our 150th episode a special enough occasion. Jason Snell, Christopher asks you, can you do an impression of Mike? Oh, I can. I'm glad he made no value judgments. you do a good impression of mike what i should answer here is yes yes i can thank you for asking christopher yes i can moving on come on hello mate this is a podcast where i decide whether to use my large ipad or my small

ipad that's very good very good so congratulations it's a very good very good impression of me my better impression would be from relay fm this is upgrade episode 150 brought to you by the good people at sponsor read here was that a better impression or was it a different one i think it was just different you don't have as many accents when you're doing the intro as you do later on. But hello, mate. This is a podcast about iPads and the people who love them. I have spent the entire day today thinking about if you were going to ask me if I could do an impression of you.

And I can't. Just FYI. I can't. I thought about it and I can't make my mouth make the sounds. I wasn't going to ask. I'm not very good with any American accents. The American accent is really difficult for me. I think because my accent is so in the middle now in so many different ways that I struggle with that one. I can do a really good Cockney accent, though,

so that's good to know. Yeah, sure. that one i can do a really good cockney accent though so that's good to know yeah sure if you would like to send in a uh question for uh hashtag snell talk question segment then just tweet with the hashtag snell talk and we will get them and i would like to thank christopher for his truly excellent quiz task question that he sent in. Hashtag Snell Talk. Mr. Jason Snell, we have a selection of follow-up today. Our first piece of follow-up comes in to us courtesy of Kerry. We have been speaking, people have been asking us questions, do we think there are going to be AirPods 2? Kerry has written in with a potential thing that could spark AirPods 2,

and that is Bluetooth 5. Kerry has written to say that Bluetooth 5 could be a good enough reason for Apple to update the AirPods because of some of the enhancements and the advantages that the fifth version of Bluetooth has over the fourth spec. So Bluetooth 5 could significantly increase the range and speed of data transfer for AirPods. And it also has built into the spec more easy pairing of multiple devices and something that is in Bluetooth 5, which we spoke about in this show in the past, I believe, is the fact that you can actually have one source going to multiple outputs.

So you can have like, say you have Bluetooth 5 in an iPhone, you could have it going out to two different speakers. I mean, that could potentially help with AirPod stuff, maybe, I guess, right? Because they're these two little different things. So Bluetooth 5, could it be a big improvement? It could increase the range, which would be great, right? So you could have your phone off in the house and you could be out right at the very back of the garden still using your AirPods.

But I don't well i think that this will be something that apple will include in the next version of airpods but i don't think that it's going to be anytime soon my feeling on this would be that maybe the next iphones get bluetooth 5 chips in them but that they would wait to talk about fantastic new AirPods features that Bluetooth 5 would enable until maybe Bluetooth 5 has been around in iPhones for a little bit longer. You know, so like maybe we get like another edition of iPhones with Bluetooth 5 in them before AirPods gain these features as well. What do you think? I think, so I'm not a Bluetooth expert by any stretch of the imagination,

but my gut feeling here, my knee-jerk response to this is, although Bluetooth 5 is an improvement, a lot of the improvements are things that Apple probably doesn't care enough about to quickly turn around a new set of AirPods. a new set of airpods and the features that it maybe cares a little more about might be features apple has already solved problems with with their overlay on bluetooth 4 that they put in with the with their special processor and all of that so like uh functions built in to help with more easily pairing devices apple's got that like apple already built its own functionality to for pairing and it's it's built a lot of stuff on top of a bluetooth 4 in order to do that and they still work as standard bluetooth headphones but they built that extra layer on top and i'm not sure how much Apple really cares about significantly increasing the range of AirPods. I mean, would they like to do that eventually?

Sure. Why not? I definitely have that where I have my phone plugged in in the kitchen and I walk to the back bedroom and things start to get a little bit spotty because the phone is whatever that is, 10, 20 feet away. And as for speed of data transfer, I think that's irrelevant. So I think what I would say is I agree that eventually Apple will update the AirPods to support the new standard and they'll take advantage of what's better in it when they can. Although for a while, they're going to want it to be a great experience like it currently is on older phones.

I think that's also true. They're going to not want to regress on the phones that don't have Bluetooth 5. But I don't see enough here for this to be proof that Apple will be updating them soon. I feel like they work great. Apple's happy with them. Apple's still trying to make them fast enough to sell them. Now seems like not the time to go back. I just don't see any need. Bottom line is I don't see a need. And we can throw up all sorts of new tech and say, but there's new tech available. It's like, yeah, but what's the need? Does Apple need to update the AirPods right now? And they don't. Are they working for new AirPods that will be better in all sorts of ways?

Because there are other ways that the AirPods could probably be better too, not just supporting Bluetooth 5. If you view it from the functionality side and figure like, what do we pick up with Bluetooth 5? What could we put in with our own special processor kind of stuff? Of course, they're working on that. But I have a hard time seeing that when this product has only been out less than a year that they would turn it around. So that still feels very much to me like a product for 2018 or later. It just it feels like

a new product. It feels like a great new product. Now there's no need to turn it around when they're still struggling to build it unless they change it because they can, they've figured out a better way to build it. But even then, I think they're not going to brand it or market it. I think they would just do that silent update that I mentioned last week where maybe they make some internal tech tweaks, but it's still just AirPods and they don't really talk about that. It's different on the inside and unless you crack them open you might not even be able to tell the difference there has been a galaxy note 7 fandom edition teardown i fix it so they got their hands on the uh refurbished and and re-released Galaxy Note 7 that we spoke about a week or two ago.

And it turns out kind of exactly as we expected. They've torn it apart and they can confirm and they have confirmed that the biggest difference in this model to the previous one is that the battery is indeed smaller. It is 9% smaller in both wattage and physical size. That's the only change. So they just made a small...

Well, they also did this thing for Korean cell networks to enhance the band reception for Korean cell networks because that's where it's going to be sold mostly. But yeah, they did indeed make the battery smaller. They used a different battery. It was exactly as we expected that they would do. But now iFixit has gone ahead and confirmed it for us. Yeah, somebody we know was talking about

how they were sorely tempted to try and get one of these imported in from Korea just because they wanted to have it. And that's fandom in a nutshell there. That's why they did it. This is why they did it. And they got them. And if they're confident that they're fine now,

I mean, by all accounts, it was a great phone, right? So, you know, more they got them. And if they're confident that they're fine now, I mean, by all accounts, it was a great phone, right? So, you know, more power to them. I look at this and think what might have been, that this is just such an example of pushing their product too far. Yeah. And that if they had released it as this, they wouldn't have been able to make quite the same battery claims, I guess. But it would have been a safer phone. And they pushed it uh too hard and that's the that will be the cautionary tale of the galaxy note 7 forever in the smartphone business and uh you know i i would imagine every single company that is made that is making a smartphone

now has that on their list of things not to do is what samsung did with that product yeah even if for a short time or however like this phone changed the entire smartphone industry like you might not see it but literally every single company is treating battery tech differently now on the pure risk that this could happen to them either they're treating their battery tech different or they reviewed their battery tech to make sure that they were already taking standards that samsung wasn't right because it's's probably like Apple didn't look at their battery standards and go, oh, geez, that could have happened to us. They probably were like, that's why we don't do X, right? It's because of that. But maybe not. Maybe Apple was like, oh, yeah, you know, yeah, let's tighten this up. But I'm

sure there are some other companies that are very much like yeah we can't that that we're lucky that that didn't happen to us so we got to step up our standards on that side or or that's going to be plus you know regulatory bodies are going to be more aware and reviewers are going to be more aware like everybody else is hyper aware of this area to the point where i would say the next great smartphone tech failure won't be from a battery almost certainly because everybody's looking at the batteries now it'll be somewhere else like you know i just feel like even if even if you work for apple and you're very confident you might just go can we just just do one review you know like someone sat down and just done a review of the battery testing procedure just to doubly doubly make sure that we're doing this the way that we should be doing it

because you just don't want to be the company that follows this you don't want to be the company that does it you definitely don't want to be the company that it happens to afterwards there's no excuse now there was no excuse then, there's no excuse now

very quick heads up the very end of this show, we're doing a little bonus Mike at the Movies because I saw Spider-Man Homecoming this weekend and I really want to talk about it. And Jason is the perfect person to talk about it with. So the very end of the show, after Ask Upgrade this week,

will be a Mike at the Movies Spider-Man Homecoming. And of course, it will be full of spoilers. So just to let you know, we'll play the spoiler horn and everything, but just so you know, right at the very end of the show today, we're going to be talking about Spider-Man. It was world emoji day yesterday.

As we record this July 17th. What a huge day for world emoji day. This is a three year old event, um, which was created by a friend of the show and creator of Emojipedia, Jeremy Bursch. He created World Emoji Day in 2014, and this year it picked up steam incredibly. So many things were happening around the world. It was fun to follow Jeremy online because you got to see him in all these different news outlets for the world. It was fun to follow Jeremy online because you got to see him in all these different

news outlets for the day. It was huge. And one of the biggest things that happened in the day is Apple unveiled a selection of the new emoji that will be coming later this year. And it also seems like in something which is also incredibly impressive that Emojipedia was given some kind of exclusive on this because, I mean, I saw it on Emojipedia was given some kind of exclusive on this because, I mean, I saw it on Emojipedia before I saw it anywhere else, even on Apple's PR newsroom. So that in and of itself is a pretty huge achievement. There'll be some links in the show notes so you can go and see them. These are some examples that Apple gave for some of the emoji that are going to be finding their way into our iPhones, I expect as with iOS 11.

So we're looking at woman with headscarf, bearded person, which I am, of course, extremely excited about. Breastfeeding, person meditating, elf, zombie, genie are some of them. And I think that there's multiple race and genders for these. Exploding head, face vomiting, starstruck, crazy face,

sandwich, coconut, T-Rex, and zebra. These are some of the ones that we saw. Also known as zebra, in case you didn't understand me. I'm sure you've taken a look at these new emoji, Jason. Which really kind of stand out to you? Which of these are you excited about? which really kind of stand out to you? Which of these are you excited about?

I feel like we talked about this before because this is the new spec here. Yeah, we spoke about the spec. When the spec came out that included the names of these, we spoke about the ones and the ones that Emojipedia had drawn up. But of course, this is Apple showing off what they're actually going to look like on our iphones yeah so i mean it's what we it's basically what we expected so i i don't know if i have like i like some of them better i like the elf and the zombie better maybe than the genie

a little bit but it you know it's all it's all more images in the lexicon which i think it's great and it's you know these are the apple emo emoji so they you're using apple style they are in that way they literally are what you would expect them to be if you imagined it um i i think the bread on the sandwich is a little bit thick but other than that i'm okay i really like the four faces that they showed off these the like the smileys i think they're all great these are all four that i wanted. And from the designs, these are four that I will use. Like the stars in eyes and the exploding head and the crazy face and the vomiting face. I will use all of those. And I'm excited about them.

Especially the vomiting one and the mind-blown one. These are two that I've wanted anyway. And they do a good job. These look really great. I'm excited. and they do a good job. These look really great. I'm excited and I'm sure it will be a reason to push everybody into upgrading to iOS 11 later this year.

Well, as we've said before, emoji is an upgrade motivator. It just is. That's just like you get the new emoji if you feel left out, fear of missing out, if you get that box with a question mark in it and realize you have to go up to iOS 11 in order to see that emoji. It may seem silly that that would be a reason to update, but it doesn't really matter.

It is, and Apple knows it. I want to share an emoji frustration whilst we're talking about emoji. Just a quick side. Slack, what are you doing? There are so many emojis still not officially supported in slack like even of like the previous emoji spec like what was it like four or something and it's literally a web app although they do they do make their own do they make their own emoji or they do they make their own emoji picker right and and it can display emoji if you type them in but like they are a company

that a massive part of their identity is based around emoji like the emoji reactions thing i want to be able to use all the new emoji in the emoji reactions thing and i can't and and it's it's mind-boggling to me that they haven't put this in yet. I can't work out why this isn't there. They're not a small company. They're a company with a huge engineering team, as far as I'm aware. Come on, Slack, put the emoji in. We're nearly to the next set of emoji, and they're still not all in there yet. Sort of that. That's my plea to Slack right there. I wanted to do a bit of follow-out, Jason, before we move on today. For the Command D conference,

which is happening on August 9th in Santa Clara in the convention center there, it is a conference focused on automation, and I wanted to mention it because you're going to be there. Yeah, I will be there. It is all about automation, macOS and iOS. There will be a bunch of other people there who are interesting talking about automation.

It's in Santa Clara. If people want to go, they can go to cmdconf.com. This is sort of the South Sagoian automation on Apple platformss independent conference. And tickets are available. I will be there. And in fact, I'm going to give you a little teaser, which is my role is going to be at the end of the event.

We're going to do a live conversation with participants in the day with some of the speakers about automation and things like that. with some of the speakers about automation and things like that. And that is basically a live episode of Upgrade. Because we talked about our travel schedules and how we have a lot of things going on this summer that have made our standard, including this episode, our standard recording day and time for Upgrade kind of up in the air a lot during the summer. This is actually going to be one of those fill-in episodes of Upgrade. It's going to be a live episode recorded on the 9th that we'll post the next week. So if you don't get a chance to go to Santa Clara and see it live, you will get to hear that conversation I have with some of the people who are there

on Upgrade that week, that following week. So go check it out. It's commanddconf.com. There'll be a link in the show notes because that's a really hard URL to say. cmddconf.com. Today's show is brought to you in part by our friends over at Mack Weldon. They make the most comfortable underwear, socks, shirts, undershirts, hoodies, and sweatpants that you're ever going to wear. Mack Weldon is better than whatever you're wearing right now. Unless it's Mack Weldon, then you've made the right decision. If you haven't, then you need

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at MackWeldon.com. That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N.com by using the code UPGRADE. So that's the code UPGRADE at MackWeldon.com for 20% off. Thank you so much to Mac Wildon for their continued support of this show and RelayFM. So Jason, we've been talking about iPads recently,

and after last week's episode, you said to me, oh, I forgot to mention about cellular connectivity on the iPad. So this is a new thing to you, right? Well, I mean, I have tried it out in limited like sandbox maneuver like buying a monthly pass or a weekly pass or a daily pass um because and i did write a whole article about well you know the flexibility you get when you buy a cellular ipad is the you have this ability to use it or not tether it um it just for $130, you're buying yourself a lot of insurance in terms of where you can use it and the connectivity. Yes, you can tether with a phone,

but, but so I had, I had a cellular iPad. I've had it for quite a while. I've had the cellular 12.9 since the 12.9 iPad Pro came out. And what I didn't have until a few weeks ago was an iPad Pro with a SIM card in it from my phone carrier. So what happened was our existing cellular plan, I think three months in a row, we went over the data limit. And so for a relatively small amount of money, as it turns out, we switched to a different plan with a much higher data limit. And as a part of that, I said, you know, while we're doing this, maybe I should go on the website and order a SIM card from them and put my iPad on their plan.

See, you have one of these pooled plans, right? Yes, my entire family is using a shared pool of data. And so for $10 a month more, this is an AT&T plan for $10 a month more and don't email me about carriers. I'm not interested. We use AT&T for some very specific reasons. In fact, including the fact that no other carrier essentially works at our house. So yeah. Anyway, No other carrier essentially works at our house. So yeah. Anyway, so for $10 a month, the iPad, my iPad is now, I mean, like literally they started for free.

They send me this SIM card in the mail. It shows up two days later for an extra $10 a month charge. My iPad. Now I pop the SIM card in. It's now shittering that pool of data. And that's very different than saying, oh, geez, I don't have any data right here. Can I, or I don't have any Wi-Fi right here. Can I tether to my phone? Can I open up the cellular interface and go to T-Mobile and buy a chunk of data for today?

Oh, they want me to put in my credit card. I don't, you know, oh, and it failed. All right. That's happened to me, right? Now, just literally, it's just working. So we were driving up to the long weekend on the 4th of July weekend, and I was in the back seat, and my daughter and my wife were in the front seats. And this is the kind of time where I would open my iPhone and like check Slack and Twitter and things like that and email. And I thought to myself, oh, I'll just get out my iPad like I do when I'm at home

because it's the same data pool. And I was just sitting there using my iPad. And at one point my wife noticed and she turned around and she said, you love having that cellular data in that iPad, don't you? And I said, yes, yes, I do. I actually do. Because again, could I have used my iPad and tethered to my phone before? Sure, I could have.

But did I ever? No, I didn't. Because it was like, oh, I'm not going to get my iPad out and tether it to the iPhone. No, forget it. I'm just going to use the iPhone here. And that happened over the weekend too, when we were traveling. I was at the airport and they didn't have the free Wi-Fi, they had the pay Wi-Fi. And then we got on the plane, but they were still boarding people. And my iPad would have dropped off a Wi-Fi network, but it was still on the cellular network. And it's just, you know, this is the thing that I didn't really get to experience before, which is when all the data is pooled

and it's the same whether it's on your iPad or on your iPhone and you prefer the iPad for certain things and you've got the iPad with you, then you just don't worry about it anymore. And I love that about it, that $10 a month is worth it to me, just I've already seen,

just to have that level of flexibility. If I was paying more or paying as I went and having to engage every time I wanted to use it and sign up or buy credits or whatever, I would feel different about it. I will say this is not even though the iPad has an Apple SIM, this is not the Apple SIM, I got AT&T to send me a SIM first, because that was really easy. And it was the SIM, you basically my carrier, I can just say, send me a SIM first because that was really easy. And it was the SIM. You basically, my carrier, I can just say, send me a SIM for this tablet. And they're like, all right. And then it's already on the account.

Literally all I did was pop it in. And it goes, boop, AT&T, you're ready to go. It knows who I am. It knows the account. I'm done. The other thing is AT&T does something in the U.S. that's terrible, which is if you use an apple sim with at&t it's permanently locked to at&t from then on which is not cool and it's the only carrier i believe that does that which which means yeah if you've got one of those software sims in the new ipad pro um you can do it

but at that point uh that apple the software apple sim is locked permanently and if you want another carrier you have to use the SIM tray again, which is why there's still a SIM card slot, even though there's an Apple SIM. Because, yeah, boo. So anyway, that's my story. So I was going to say, I love Cell Connection on my travel iPad

because it has an Apple SIM in it, right? And for that reason, it makes a lot of sense for me because no matter where I am, I can just get a data plan. So I've used it in Europe. I've used it in the U.S. I've used it in the U.K. It takes a little while.

It is slow, that process of signing it up, as you say, and it can be a bit frustrating. But I only ever get cell connection in the iPad that I take out with me because I then have the flexibility of being able to get connections wherever I am without needing to go and buy a SIM card. So I've been a big fan of it in the smaller of my iPads. I got it in my 10.5, which is pretty sure the iPad that I'm going to take with me on my long trip this year. And I'll be able to just get as much data as I need whenever I need it. And I really like it for that. So it's perfect for me for traveling. But if I had a situation like yours, where I had this like poor data plan, multiple SIMs, I would totally have that when I'm at home as well. Like that, that's great. Like that's a great thing. But with the amount of international travel I do, the Apple SIM is perfect. Like it's

fantastic. I absolutely love it. And before the Apple SIM, cellular connection in my iPad never really made sense for me. Right. Well, in fact, I have on my old 12.9, I have an Apple SIM. The 12.9 shipped with a physical Apple SIM. And on the new models, they have the Apple SIM built in. And what that means is if you're in a situation like mine, on the new models, you've got an AT&T SIM in the slot and you've got the Apple SIM and you can, and if you're traveling somewhere and you want a new carrier, you use the Apple SIM. Well, on the older model,

you would pop in an Apple SIM or somebody else's SIM, which is a little less fun. That's cool though, that it's, that you've had the option. Yeah. Well, and like I said,

I think that's the reason that the SIM card is there is that they know that some carriers, AT&t might uh lock that apple sim never to be unlocked again so that's so dumb both it is it is i don't know why they're doing it it's so hostile it's like so egregious like how dare you and nobody else is doing it like they could say oh well it's a security issue or whatever but it's like nobody else does that just at&t as far as i can tell so maybe there are other meme carriers in other countries but my understanding is in the u.s that it's at&t that locks the apple sim makes it forever in at&t sim similar thing i i bought um an unlocked iphone direct from apple and ee locked and EE locked that iPhone to them. My carrier, EE, locked it.

Like, they locked it to them. And I didn't know until I was already in America and trying to use another SIM that they'd done that. And I remember I was... I don't know if I've ever been more mad at a company than I was for this because it was just like, this is my phone that I bought, but yet you think you can lock it?

Like, I don't understand why you think that that's a thing. And then I had to wait a week for them to do it by the time I was in home. I made them pay me not a lot of compensation money, but the over £150 that i did in roaming data i didn't pay like i took that complaint like further and further up the chain of command in their customer service team until they wiped it for me because i was like there's no way i'm paying this i'm not paying this like i had a sim you wouldn't let me use it because for some reason you thought that it was okay to just lock my phone that I paid for outright with my own money to your network when

you have absolutely no rights to do that, in my opinion. Whether they do or they don't, they ended up bending to my angry will. So yeah, I think that's incredibly obnoxious of a company to think that they can do that. So I'm happy that Apple are seeing through this. I mean, honestly, honestly, I wish that the iPhone could have an Apple SIM. Like, I wish they could find a way to do that. I would be so happy if they could do that. So as well as your revelations for, I've got such a big smile on my face right now, as well as your revelations with cell connectivity on your ipad over this weekend you sent me a message and you asked me for my recommendations for to-do apps now this has been a long-running theme of the show in which i cannot fathom how you are able

to run all the things that you run being the busy man that you are using just a calendar and the occasional reminder like you use no to-do application no like omni focus or to-do list or things or anything like that and really the reminders list that you have is not like a huge thing it's more like just a list of like a checklist of stuff that you might want to do in the future right like you have an you have an idea for an article and you put it in reminders, if I remember correctly. Yes. And so you sent me this message and you asked about a to-do app. So I guess first off, what made this change in your mind?

Well, so I had a moment and some of this has to do with what, you know, what the, the business of what we do is we think about how we use technology, right? That's part of what we do. I don't go through life using my computer. Ideally, I don't go through life using my computer, using my smartphone, using my tablet, right? And just kind of do my stuff, right? I'm always working on this other level, which is why did I do that? Why do I feel this way? What's the motivating factor for behaving this way? Like I try to analyze what I'm doing because behind that is this idea of like, if this is an interesting insight, a moment of insight, I should file this away because I probably could write about it at some point.

So that happens. That's a meta level on which I use technology that is because I write about technology. So yeah, like it's impossible for me to get a new device and just start using it for fun. I also have to open an Apple note and start writing down all of my thoughts about what it's like to use it, right? Like, you know, if I get a new phone, the first thing I do is go to Notes and start a new note that says, like, iPhone 7 impressions. And then I just start writing stuff down as it's happening to me, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, I literally have it happen where I do something or I have this moment where I observe somebody in my family doing something. I'm like, let me write that down. In my reminder story ideas list, that's where I put it. Because it's like, that's kind of an interesting insight. Because you're looking for those insights anywhere you can. It's a little bit like a writer of fiction having an idea and writing down their story idea. It's very much like that, where something will bubble up, you notice something. And if you don't do this for a living, you don't have to do that, right? But I have to do that. You have to do that because we talk about this stuff. So, I had a moment last week where I was going away for the weekend and had a bunch of stuff to do, as I always do. And I had a moment where I thought, wow, I have a real

collection of things that need to be done in a certain order. And I thought, you know, I'm not going to use a calendar to track these things. Like there are some of them were on a calendar because it's like, you need to post this on this day, or this is when you record this podcast. But there was a collection of items. And I thought, this is why people have to-do lists, is because there's a collection of items. And while sometimes in my life, I felt like I don't really have a collection of items, I just have a series of milestones that happen every week. In this moment, I felt like I could see the collection of items that needed to be on a to-do list, which I normally can't see. So that was the moment where I said, oh, well, if I'm ever going to try

a to-do list, this is probably the right time because I have things to put on a to-do list. So then I sent you a Slack message and I said, okay, Mike, what should I use for my to-do list? message and i said okay mike what should i use for my to-do list so are you feeling any increased pressure as well that's that's making you go down this route do you think or i think not i think this is mostly because you know talking talking about summer again i think that my usual schedule is not being is not consistent right now because it's summer and there's lots of people taking trips and things and so there's many moving parts and so things are sliding around on the schedule and there are things that that in my brain i could be like oh it's about the time of the month when i do this or on this day i do this that's suddenly like no you have to do it earlier or you can't do it now you have to do it later or

things like that where there's enough stuff that's not happening like a well-oiled machine that it's starting to get messier and so for me that's sort of the pressure. And your conception of time changes, which makes it more tricky to use and remember the calendar, you know, because, you know, if you're on vacation or you're traveling, it can mess around with kind of your internal clock a bit. We're talking on a Tuesday, but I know for the rest of this day,

I'm going to think it's Monday because I talked to you on Monday morning and we're talking on Tuesday morning because I spent Monday morning in San Diego. And that was great. But here we are. That's going to mess me up maybe for the rest of the week. Right.

But certainly today, because I'm going to my brain's going to be thinking it's Monday when it's not. And if I'm internalizing everything based on that, I'm going to be in trouble. So so in Todoist, I put in a bunch of those things that are like that collection of things I needed to do last week and put them on dates and all that. And then I made some recurring events to try and get ahead of some of the things that also like would be a good example of, well, like to plan for download. And this is a good example where it's sort of day based. And so I could put that again on a calendar but it would seem really dumb but it's like on on tuesday i want to make sure that we are working on the guests and make sure we've got guests slotted for download and on wednesday i

want to make sure that we've got the topics ready for download and thursday we record the show i'm not so worried about that there'll be a time in my calendar for when we record, but there are some milestones Tuesday and Wednesday every week to get us to Thursday. And those aren't really calendar events, right? They're just on Tuesday, you should do this so that you're ready on Thursday. And so I put those into, and so that's what I'm trying right now is to get that and see how that works for me. And so from a system perspective, you're setting up projects and stuff like that? I have not set up projects yet because that is a premium feature and I'm not yet using the... I think there's a premium trial that I can try, which I may do now that I'm back from my long weekend.

I might turn that on because I want to get the most out of that. I like the idea of the projects because that's something you and I have talked about before that actually intrigued me. That was part of my intrigue here was the ability to say, here are all the steps that need to happen when a project happens.

So that when I make a new project, it sort of creates all the items that need to happen as a part of that project. And when I need to do that, part of that project and i and when i need to do that i will i will try that but i'm not i'm not quite there yet your download project could be really interesting right because there's like a bunch of things that you have to do and some of them you can't do until other things are done right like there there are some interesting parts in that which could be that could be fun it could be i'm not sure it's that complicated like

like i said i feel i feel like in some ways these are the milestones which is get the guests get the topics do the show and and it's a weekly show so really it's just get the guests every week pick the topics every week do the show every week it's three weekly to do's essentially or two weekly to do's and a calendar item for when we schedule the recording and that's it are you doing anything to categorize like to put the tasks into buckets so i put i did some categorization but i've got to be honest the categorization feels like busy work to me and i and i sort of regret it and i think i'm going to probably remove the categorization because it's more work to categorize them this when i used things several years ago i felt the same way which was it was fun to categorize things but i felt it was meaningless because i'm never saying i'm not somebody who's like okay i only want to see what work i'm doing on x it's like i have work to do it comes from a bunch of different

buckets i've got to do all of it so i feel no need to focus in on just show me the relay stuff or just show me the incomparable stuff or just show me the writing stuff. I have to do all of them. So I don't think that necessarily adds any value for me. And that's something that I'm being wary of as we've talked about. Something I'm being wary of here is adding structure, like what you said about projects. Like I can add structure,

but if the structure doesn't give me any benefit, I should not bother with it. Because this will be one of the things that pushes you away from keeping it going exactly right because the last thing i want um is to have that um is to have all that stuff uh push me over the edge of feeling like i'm putting i'm doing doing more work on, um, on maintaining my to-do list than I am doing the work. So I'll say like, for as long as I used OmniFocus, I never used any projects or anything like that. When I switched to Todoist, I started doing it and I'm happy that I do it now, but the rest of my system is so baked in at this point that adding

that little bit of extra was fine for me. But the reason I didn't do it was because I was concerned for a long time that it would make it more frustrating to add stuff in. And from moving from OnlyFocus to Todoist, it's way easier to add this stuff to Todoist, which is why I started doing it anyway, because you can just add it all in text and the natural language picks it all up, right? There are just like you put like a little hash symbol in and then you start typing the name of your project and it's pre-filled for you right so that was why i started doing it there and i'm happy i do it for the benefits that i get but i wouldn't necessarily recommend it if

you're just starting out like if if you think it's going to be a friction point for you then don't do it because it might then stop you from keeping it going so i've recommended you try to do this because one it's an app that i use every single day and i really like it um but also it's free like you originally said to me oh should i try omni focus and i mean i can't recommend that you do that because it's expensive to get in the door if you're only going to use it for a week right because it's all paid up front and right i don't know if omni folk if the omni group have trials they might have trials now like using the the subscription system but i don't know off the top of my head but really like as well i think that for the for the reasons that i switched from omni focus to todoist i think you would enjoy

like all the stuff that you can do with their ap, right? Like tying it into stuff like Zapier and IFTTT. If you get involved in this, I think you would get a lot of use out of that. Like even if it is just tying it to your calendar, which you might find really useful, right? So like if the incomparable event is on your calendar, add a edit the incomparable task to Todoist, right? Like I can imagine that you might

enjoy some of that sort of stuff so that was why i recommended todoist to you all right maybe but again i'm gonna i'm gonna approach everything with like i want this to be as minimal effort as possible and that goes back to i feel like this is almost turning into cortex at this point but i will say that that that for me for me i'm putting on my my maybe CGP Grey persnickety hat a little bit right now, which is there is a level beyond which it's not worth putting in the effort because it is wasteful. And I'm trying to be really attentive to the idea that just because I can do something doesn't mean that it will actually save me any time. And it may be that my right to do list application and system is incredibly minimal. Or it may be that I start minimal and then there's a moment where I realize,

oh, you know what? I'm doing double entry here. And if I can make this set up to do single entry, that will actually save me time. But I'm just very wary of falling down that pit of becoming somebody who is a person who maintains a to-do list and gets things done because they're on the to-do list and that's not the point the to-do list is is is meant there to enable me to do what i need to do not the other way around and i i do see that as a uh a hole that people i know have fallen into and that doesn't work for me.

I 100% agree with that. And again, I'm not suggesting you do any of these things. But if you're asking me for a recommendation, I would recommend to do it because I want to make sure that you are future-proofed if you decide that you want to pursue it further. So this was one of the reasons. decide that you want to pursue it further right so this was one of the reasons like if you decide you want to continue down this route then i recommend to do is now because it has those tools in case you want them in the future i have some real-time follow-up uh from cgp gray who says uh start with paper and pen you don't know what you need in a nap until you've used the most basic of basic systems no you take my advice all right don't know what you need in an app until you've used the most basic of basic systems. No, take my advice

on this one. Don't listen to him. Are you steering me away from pens, Mike? Are you steering me away from using a pen? I want you to use the to-do system. I know you don't like paper and pen so I recommend to-do-ist to you. Right? Alright.

Now, I know because you invoked his name i had a fear that he was listening to this right now you say his name he appears don't you know the old stories the ancient stories about gray some follow-up which he can i may be out there somewhere in the live world who knows because you said that you know putting on your gray persnickety hat he is as much as me in the idea of automating this stuff right because the idea being is the double entry thing if it's on your calendar and your to-do app can actually add it to your list he's sending me messages now i get that i get that i just i had my little internal voice of gray say you know what you because when i think

of him one of the things i think about him and it's trade I like is that he, he's very adamant about certain things. Like he's, he's the kind of person who's like, no, if it, if it can't do this, I'm not going to do it. And I, that, that's sort of in the back of my mind about this is like, I need to have that kind of hard rule of like, it needs to, it needs to serve me. I need to not serve it. It needs to be as little work as possible and gain benefit from me and i am not one of these look if you're somebody who likes playing with productivity apps i do more

power to you i hate it i don't want them in my life i only want to use them at a remove just to do the barest essential for me but i agree you. I think pencil and paper or pen and paper would not be a great choice for me because I have so many recurring events and I want to be able to cross them off. And I don't want to keep making a new list where I just write the same things from the previous week again, right?

So for me, having it be digital, just so that I can say, look, here are these steps in doing download and they're weekly. And that is something that's more effectively done on a computer than on paper, I think. Yeah, I recommend pen and paper for a lot of people that are starting at this point. But I just don't think that it is the best way for you personally. I mean, plus as well, when it's digital, it's everywhere.

It's on all your devices, right? You don't have to do anything. It's true. Although I was a little reluctant about that. I have to say, because so much of what I do is on my, on my Mac that I have put Todoist on my iPhone and my iPad and that's good, but I'm, I was reluctant because it's sort of like, I kind of want it in the context of sitting down at my desk and doing work. The reality is I've had a couple, the reality is, is that i checked a couple of final things as done on friday afternoon and then shut down my computer and the shutdown preceded the syncing of the data to to do is so over the weekend i get this email from to do is saying you have two things you haven't

done interesting panic and i'm like i did those things what are you talking about and then i downloaded todoist on my iphone so i could check those boxes again be like silence so i done i say straight up turn the email reminders off yeah yeah but here's the thing that is interesting is that having it on my phone or my ipad does allow me to go uh one it's like oh yeah do i need to do that today oh i do and also allows me to be like oh oh yeah do i need to do that today oh i do and also allows me to be like oh you know what i need to do and put it in right then it's the quick entry that makes it really useful so i kind of want it not in my life when i'm away from my working but just like writing down something to remember it later about like here's an interesting story idea

having a thing where you realize you are owed something that you haven't put in your personal tracker yet and putting it down so that you can forget about it and know that it's going to pop up when you need it i think that's i think that's good yeah you know my other criticism and maybe it's something that this thing can do but my other criticism of it is that i have internally this concept of things that are due on a certain day but need to be addressed imagine Imagine this, like you have to turn in your term. My kids struggle with this kids. Oh boy. Uh, where it's like, you've got a huge project. It's going to take, let's say three full days after school to do four full days after

school to do. And what do my kids do? They're like, Oh, that project is due Friday. And then Thursday night, they're like, Oh my God, there's so much to do. And it's like, yeah, this is not the time to start the project. You should have started it sooner. So for me, I'll have that where I'll like, I have the story to do, but this story is going to take more time. It's going to take a week to do it. It's going to take several days to do it. So I need to be reminded earlier that it's due. And that's a challenge that I have had, at least in starting to use something like Todoist, where what I really want to do is say, this story is due on this day. Tell me about it sooner.

And its reaction seems to be like, I'll tell you about it the day it's due. And it's like, okay, well, then it's on me to look ahead and see what's due several days out. You're a computer. You should be able to tell me a week beforehand or five days beforehand you have this thing that needs to be done then that you need to start now and it doesn't seem to have that conception there are ways in which you can set up different types of reminders to occur at different intervals before but you kind of have to do that

to the tasks and you can also set up defaults but they're not like multiple days before it would be like 30 minutes before or an hour before like there's way to do some of this stuff but maybe not to the level at which you would like the way the way other way to do it is to say this story is due friday is a reminder for is a to-do for Wednesday, which is dumb, but that's a way to do it. It's just, it's something that I've come into where the concept of to-do items doesn't necessarily follow from some of the stuff I do,

or you're breaking it up into start working on it now and then finish working on it then, which is not quite the same. Yeah, like what you can do, there is like a little alarm clock button and you can click that and you can add reminders to tasks, which can be like a week in advance or something and there's probably ways to do this via their entry system like their text entry system where you just type a command

something at a week before but yeah there's maybe not the flexibility to to do that automatically i mean one thing that i do and i think a lot of people that use these apps do to take advantage of like the next seven days thing I mean so I spend quite I spend an amount of time every day and again this is this is very system heavy I will agree but I'm just saying like just so you know how I work my systems I spend quite a lot of time in the seven day thing reviewing what's coming up moving things around as necessary picking off tasks that can be done in advance, that kind of thing. But this again, this is very late into you having a system, I think, before you would start thinking about it in this way. The best thing for you to be doing right now is just to be putting things in as they're coming to you, seeing how you're reminded and refining if you're going to turn this into a thing that you want to use in the long term.

Well, we'll see how it goes. And I don't want to get anybody's hopes up i have done this before and generally they go unused and abandoned in short order which means it's not for you and that's fine yeah i'm giving it a go i'm just pleased you're trying honestly because you know i i i worry about you jason because i just don't't understand. As I said it before, you're such a busy man. You're only getting busier. I just think it can't be good to keep all that stuff mostly floating out in the world, like waiting for you to be like, oh, it's Wednesday. I have found to have this system, which i know has got the stuff in it just makes me feel better and a lot of people i know are this way you might not be wired that

way and that's cool because like if you can deal with it your way like do with it your way but like i'm just hoping that this makes your working life more comfortable in a way that you hadn't imagined yet. And that will make me very happy. Yeah, well, we'll see. I think, like I said, the reason that the calendar thing happens is not because I am a lunatic who thinks that I can just make a bunch of events, all day events in my calendar for every single item I need to do. That's not really it. But it stems from the fact that a lot of the things I need to do are literally be here at this time or do this thing. I mean, again, I do have some of those like post this thing on this day. It's calendar related, but it's also what to do. So trying to make it, trying to back out of that a little bit is one of the things that I'm hoping to at least try here so that instead of looking at my calendar and saying, oh yes, that thing is

due next Wednesday because there's an all day event that says it's due next Wednesday. Cause it's like a posting schedule. I put in something that backs it out and says, make sure this thing is ready to go. And you know, that's, so it's, it's, can I get those things to work in concert with one another? And there was something nice about, and this is why I was driven to do this, the, that next seven days view of being able to say, I realize I need to do this. I I was driven to do this the that next seven days view of being able to say I realize I need to do this I don't need to do it right now but I do need to do it by this date and putting it in the list so I can see it's coming up but not what I have to do today so that I do get that satisfaction of checking those boxes at the end of the day or as I go through the day and saying I did all the things I needed to do today but I you know I want to be I want to be wary

about it taking too much time because that's not my goal. It's not a video game that I play. It is just a blunt tool to try and get me to stay on track. And that is 100% the right attitude to take. If you have enjoyed this discussion and you do not listen to either Cortex or Free Agents or Mac Power users on RelayFM, they may be some shows

that you may enjoy adding to your list because they're shows that approach working and process and tools and the way that we use them. So there's a handful of different show suggestions for you if this type of thing is of interest. All right, I think it's ask upgrade time. But first, let me take a moment to thank our friends over at Encapsular. Encapsular has website security tools and a content delivery network that makes any website safer, faster, and more reliable. It's easy to get started. Just make a small change to your DNS to activate Encapsular. It's ready to go when you are. There's no new hardware or software to install. Then when you're up and running, you'll have access to Encapsular's 30 data centers. They're three terabits of bandwidth all on their global network. This network keeps away the bad guys, making sure denial of service attacks never hit your servers. In the meantime, they cache your content and optimize connections using their powerful CDN so your users get your content lightning fast.

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and relay fm all right jason snell our first question this week comes from dave dave asked with the proposed higher prices for the next iphone would it make sense if AirPods came in the box? What are your thoughts? I don't know. I have to say I had never thought about this before. But if you're going to make a high-end iPhone that costs a lot more money but is super awesome and the best, most cutting-edge thing Apple can provide, Apple can provide. If you got like a jet black iPhone 8 or iPhone Pro with jet black AirPods in the box, I don't know. That's actually a really fun idea. I'm not sure Apple would do it just because those people have a lot of money and why would you take an extra $150 out of their pocket

in addition to their iPhone? But it's a fun idea of saying this is the maxed out, totally awesomest iPhone ever. But they probably won't do it because if you've got enough money to buy the high-end iPhone, you've got enough money to buy AirPods 2. I think that this is the only time that it has ever made sense to bundle AirPods, right? Because there is a potential high price, but I still don't think it's going to happen.

I think that this idea makes sense right now because we haven't seen the iPhone. So giving it that high price tag, we can justify it in our minds by saying, oh, we get AirPods as well. Like, we can justify it in our minds by saying, oh, we get AirPods as well. Because I expect that this phone will tell, or at least Apple will try to make it tell such a good story that we'll pay whatever the price is, right? And that they won't need to put AirPods in the box because the phone's going to be so desirable that we'll pay whatever it's going to be.

And then they continue to make extra money. There's a couple of other thoughts I had on this airpods are already hard enough for apple to make if they continue to have issues with production of airpods they're not going to start holding up iphones and they're also struggling to just sell enough of them anyway so you know so to make enough of them to sell i should say so why cut out like millions and put them right in the box your your item in our not to read verbatim from the notes that we use to do the show but your item is perfect which is apple doesn't need to put them in the box so they won't that's it that's exactly it why do it and you're right then you mean you have to have enough airpods to put in the box even if people don't

want them and bottom line if you know apple wants to sell you airpods and they want to sell you it but it's a fun idea i like that i like the fun idea oh yeah of like the super special edition special box iphone that comes with all of the goodies but i don't i don't think so including airpods that you can't buy right like black ones well like i said the black ones yeah oh yeah no if you're gonna do it if you're gonna do it you see all that you sell the black uh it's the black iphone pro it only comes in black it's jet black it's got jet black airpods it's got jet black uh jet black airpods not earpods but airpods it's got a jet black charger jet black cables and it probably comes with both a usbc and a usba cable right and you just you just it is the edition right it almost reminds

me of the original iphone right the original iphone came with tons tons of stuff in the box you got like a dock and everything right like it was just like it felt like more of a big thing and i expect that they might go down some of this route right with some of those other things that you mentioned but i i don't think AirPods will be one of them. I think we're multiple years away before AirPods are included in the box. One day I believe they will, but I don't think we're close to that day yet.

Okay, Nopali asked, Jason, I wonder if you have any information about this from the device that you bumped into somewhere in San Jose. Will Home pods be good for home cinema setups do you know anything about this uh i i know enough to say no uh based on what my understanding is because they it's a mono speaker with some different speakers that that

try to separate things out based on frequency in order to feel like it fills the room. So if by good you mean can I pair it with an Apple TV over Bluetooth and have it play my audio from my Apple TV? Yeah, maybe, but Apple has said nothing about trying to make this into something that would be considered a home theater or you know tv related thing and it's not gonna like connect to your other devices i think so i i'm sure somebody will hook an apple tv up to a home pod and a tv screen and use it that way but i don't think this is how Apple intends it to be used. And it's not going to be able to generate, again, could they use those speakers

to try to generate some directionality? They could, but when I asked the sand people, the Jawas who were standing in the secluded glade on Tatooine about stereo versus mono, what they said was, you know, basically it's mono. They're not trying to take the stereo signal and do directionality with it. That might change because I think it's all happening in the software. And they do have multiple speakers in that pod, but I don't think that's what they're planning. They could get there. It wouldn't shock

me if down the road there was something that was if this product does well that there was something that was a little bit more like the sonos play bar kind of thing where it was actually intended to integrate um the home pod experience into your into your home or the ability to place you know multiple home pods in different places for a different sort of surround effect but that seems a long way off our next question comes from todd last name we've held should i do anything special with my photos.app library or on any of my devices before turning on iCloud photo library for the first time um i think hi todd aloha um i think you don't need to although it's always good to have a backup of your photo

library, right? You should have a backup of your photo library. So if you've got a backup of it, I think you're doing okay. I don't think iCloud photo library is going to destroy your library. I would say you turn it on and make sure that it's set to keep all your photos locally, at least at the start, and then let it sync. And I think it'll be fine. But I will just say more generally, always have a backup. Like I always had a backup on an external drive or a different computer in my photos library, because you don't want to lose those photos. And you know, you just you don't ever want to have be put yourself in a situation where there's only one device that has your photo library on it. uh but i don't think you need to do anything special just make sure you've got a backup and then flip the switch jim asked should i reformat my external

drive i use for time machine backups to the new apfs will time machine backups run faster i think i think what we know about high sierra is that they're not making any of these changes right now in Time Machine. I would not be surprised if it happens eventually, right? I would not be surprised if Time Machine backups are dramatically improved by APFS someday. And it might not even be in next year's release, it could even be in an interim release, where they turn that on, like they don't want to do it now, they're going to get APFS out there on the Mac now. And then they're going to do a time machine update that is not necessarily a part of what comes after High Sierra. So I think it will happen. It's inevitable because APFS appears to be basically built for it. For those who don't know and don't listen to

Accidental Tech Podcast and haven't talked about file systems, ding. The idea here is that Time Machine does a lot of weird stuff with hard links on a hard drive in order to reference files that didn't change. And there's a bunch of stuff in APFS, including these instant snapshots that basically let the file system say, you know, these files are the same as these files. Like they're just, they're the same and they don't have to deal with it. So there's not as much like churning on the disk for stuff like that. And it only tracks what's changed.

So I think it does have some potential advantages there. And it has a lot of potential advantages for on device time machine that they are building in now where in terms of like, sort of like tracking changes in your files in the short term, but for for running on a backup. The answer is not yet, but maybe someday, I wouldn't go ahead and jump to apfs on your backup drive now um because as far as i have heard it doesn't do anything yet yeah i don't think you can do it so like on connected this week steven gave a complete uh overview of high sierra as he seen it so far i see we would hi s, Sierra. We were talking about Time Machine and it seems like from what he was saying,

it will back up stuff from APFS drives, but it will, like from volumes, but it will back them up to HFS Plus still. Like it won't back them up to APFS. So I don't actually think you can. Interesting. Yeah. So this is the thing is,

my guess is that, yeah, they're building a version of Time Machine that takes full advantage of APFS because it is like APFS was built in part to do better time machine backups, right? It's very clear that that was one of the ideas behind this whole thing and they will get there,

but they're not there yet. I think that's the right move. Like, so just, just wait, just wait. It will be, they will be time machine backups.

I think are going to be awesome. Once, once APFS and time and time machine work together, I I think are going to be awesome once APFS and Time Machine work together. I think it's going to be a much more efficient system than the hack that's in place now where, you know,

the Time Machine backup starts up and you hear the disk start to go click, click, click, click, click, click. All right. Not so much anymore. That'll be good. Michael has asked, I've been wearing a steel Apple Watch

since the launch, but I've only ever met one other person with one. Have you seen many in the wild? So I would say even at WWDC, only a handful of the steel. I see way more of the various models of sport. I think it's clear that that one is the most popular, like the aluminium ones and all the different aluminium colours. And I don't think that it's necessarily just for price i expect it's for price for many people but like for me

and and for many people that i know it's a taste thing like that i just prefer the way the aluminium ones look and i know a bunch of people that have the steel ones uh steven has one i think federico did i don't know if he still does lauren has one lauren's stainless and i guess i know it's like a different thing different taste thing but i would say that i definitely see way more of the aluminium than the steel yeah oh sure because it's because it's cheaper and it looks great i mean i have mine's mine's aluminum and i think it's beautiful. I have the aluminum black in my series too and I love it. I really love it. Yeah, when I was getting Lauren her Apple Watch,

I asked her to like, we looked at the Apple Store and like, what did she like in terms of just the look of it? Because it was basically a birthday present for her. And I knew that if it was just on price she would get the aluminum one because the stainless one costs more and but so i tried to take it out of the equation and just sort of gauge her feelings about the look of it and she really liked the stainless i would not

have bought the stainless for myself if price were no object honestly because i don't like how it looks on me as much as i like the black i agree aluminum but she liked the stainless so we got the stainless for her but i you know i think i i would imagine that it's um it scales you could probably do a chart of sales if you were inside apple in terms of stainless versus aluminum and it's probably you know proportional to the price delta that's yeah i agree and finally today sana asked would you want a future version of the 12.9 inch ipad pro to have a larger screen in the same physical size or a smaller body with the same screen size so So basically, do we want the screen to go to the edges with the size being the same,

or do we want the bezels to come in around the screen? Imagine a bezel-less 12.9 iPad Pro. What do you imagine? The existing shape with the bezels pushed out and replaced by screen, or the existing screen with the bezels pushed in so the ipad is smaller what do you think easy answer for me i want the dimensions of the ipad to be smaller without sacrificing the screen a bigger screen would be nice but the my biggest problem with

the 12.9 is that it's kind of a load it is a it is a big thing and so for me i'm not going to give up my 12.9 and switch to the 10.5 as as nice as the 10.5 is so i would love it if my 12.9 got a little bit smaller i want the opposite so i would i knew you would i knew it would want my, on my 12.9, it to stay the same size, even the same weight, but the screen to get bigger. And this is because I am the multi-pad person, right? I live the multi-pad lifestyle. I have a home iPad and an outdoors iPad. So my outdoors iPad is the small one. And if I'm going to have an iPad at home, I want it to be as big as it can be and still be movable around the house. And so like a potential, like, I don't know, like 14 inch, 15 inch, maybe screen in the same pot size, right?

Would be, oh my God, I would love it, right? It would only be better for me. So that's where I would like to go. But if we got the other version, I would also still be happy, right? I would also still be happy with that. But my ideal situation would just be a bigger screen because I would love that yeah makes sense and I think that may be the more mainstream opinion honestly for me I want the bigger screen than the 10.5 but I would like it to be as compact

as possible because it is a little bit but I see the appeal of a larger screen it's just for me I think I would go the other way okay so after break, we are going to talk about Spider-Man Homecoming with a extra special mic at the movies. But before we do, let me take a moment to thank our final sponsor for this week, and that is Blue Apron, the number one recipe delivery service with the freshest ingredients. Blue Apron's mission is to make incredible home cooking accessible to everyone while supporting a more sustainable food system. They set the highest standards for ingredients whilst building a community of home chefs. Every single Blue Apron meal comes with a step-by-step,

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And you can check out this week's menu and get three meals for free with your first purchase, including free shipping, by going to blueapron.com slash upgrade. You're going to love how good it feels and tastes to create incredible home-cooked meals at Blue Apron. So get started today by going to blueapron.com slash upgrade. We thank them for their support of this show. Blue Apron, a better way to cook. So, let the spoiler horn ring out. We are about to talk about Spider-Man Homecoming, which I saw this weekend. Jason, of course, has an episode of The Incomparable up,

which will undoubtedly be better than whatever Spider-Man-related nonsense I'm about to spew, because I haven't taken any notes when watching the movie as i would usually do during a mic at the movies so this is purely based upon me seeing this a couple of days ago but i just wanted to talk about some of the things that i was excited about you know i said this before on the show spider-man is and has always been my favorite superhero um i got spider-man fatigue with the and Guy Fielder Spider-Man movies I just saw the first one of them and I'd kind of I'd seen it too many times by then and and I was just getting sad about

it honestly uh because I love Spider-Man and I felt like he wasn't being treated well enough um because he's such a great hero right and and appeals to so many people one of the reasons that that Sony picked him up and wouldn't let him go right and they kept to so many people one of the reasons that that sony picked them up and wouldn't let him go right and they kept trying to do it because you know at least those first ones uh the first ones with um toby mcguire they were great right like spider-man one and two really great movies um you know i think really you know set the stage for the ability to marvel to do what they've done because these spider-man movies were such a success those original spider-man movies um because we just did a podcast about it's not out yet about batman forever and batman and robin and batman and robin came out like three years before spider-man

this is sam raimi spider-man and batman and robin is literally like the stake through the heart of superhero movies and then spider-man is the reinvigoration of superhero movies and you could you could make a strong argument that sam raimi's spider-man is the movie that set the template and kicked off a modern wave of good superhero movies that we're still kind of living in um you know you could argue it it's it's not necessarily something that i would i would uh i think it's debatable, but I think that it's possible, certainly, that it did that.

Those first two Spider-Man movies are very good. Spider-Man 2 is frequently cited as one of the very best superhero movies ever made. Yeah, I mean, even Spider-Man 3, which wasn't as good, it was still pretty good. It was okay. It was definitely the weaker

of the three that had some really bad moments in it but wasn't like an overall disaster but like it just had some some really dumb parts i think it was an overall disaster much like amazing spider-man 2 i think they were maybe you've seen it more recently than me right like maybe this is what it is and i'm looking at this with rose-tinted glasses but the number one thing that i was worried about and probably my number one favorite thing of this movie is they were just like origin story what origin story there's literally a line where uh peter's friend ned says to him dude you were bitten by a radioactive spider and he's like yeah i was well i mean you know maybe get me that spider and And he says, the spider's dead, dude.

Leave it alone. And so is Uncle Ben. And there's no Uncle Ben. There's really literally a line where he says after all that May has been through, I don't want to burden her with this. And that's it. She's there. There's no uncle. And she's there alone. But that's it. It's not in there. And I, as a lifelong...

There will be purists who will be like, but that's the core of the character. not in there and i as a lifelong there will be purists who'll be like but that's the core of the characters like as a lifelong spider-man fan uh good call i don't need to see it again no we don't we don't need it and instead his origin story is essentially that he was in civil war 2 or civil war which we all saw uh captain america civil war do you know i haven't seen it i don't know why i. I thought I'd seen it. The good news is, it's a good movie. I liked it a lot. But the good news is, Mike, that the Spider-Man part gets recounted here at the beginning of Spider-Man Homecoming. I mean, look, I've seen the trailer, so I've also already seen it.

Do you know what? Honestly, I think because I've seen the trailer, I thought I'd seen the movie. I don't know why this had happened, I think because I've seen the trailer, I thought I'd seen the movie. Yeah. I don't know why this had happened to me, because I've seen all of them, right? It's a good movie. I haven't seen Doctor Strange, and I haven't seen Civil War. Also a good movie. But they're on my list,

and so I'm going to watch them. Time to get to those. Yes, absolutely. Well, something that was very exciting to me. This is the first Marvel movie that Idina has seen, other than the two Guardians of the Galaxy. All right. And we left this,

and she was like, I would watch some more. I'm like, great, there's loads of them. We'll go back to Iron Man. Right? And so,

yeah, I think we're going to maybe knock some of those out. you should watch Doctor Strange with her. I think, I think she would like that. I like that movie a lot. Okay, good.

Yeah, I know, again, like, I have only not seen it because I haven't seen it, not i don't want to if that makes sense right and it doesn't require any real knowledge of any marvel stuff unlike this was why it totally does this was why i'd taken her to see guardians of the galaxy and took her to see this movie because i figured guardians of galaxy especially because i knew that but also even though i knew there would be

some crossover with spider-man, that it wouldn't... We weren't going to see the Avengers all popping up for the entire movie where I had to explain 15 characters to her, right? Right. But she's interested now in seeing the next Avengers movie because she likes Spider-Man,

she likes Guardians of the Galaxy, she likes the idea of those characters all being in a movie together. Well, I'm like, well, we're going to have to watch more. If you want to go and see that movie next year, you really need more backstory. So we're considering going through some of them but so whilst we didn't get uh an origin story we did get really good parts of the movie of him learning his capabilities of spider-man because and this is all hidden up in the suit right like

he knows how to be spider-man he knows how to shoot webs he knows how to climb walls but what he doesn't know is what this suit can do for him. And I like how even throughout the whole movie, he's going through this because the suit continues to get more powerful. The suit gets more abilities. So he learns more. And it's done in a really great way, which I really liked. And the whole Karen voice, this is something that's new to me i don't recall well anything that i any comics that i've read um and this may be something that exists in some part

of the the comic book lore i i don't know of of spider-man having a jarvis-like assistant i assume that somewhere throughout the whole iron man like thing there is a there is a there is a brief moment in the comic book lore where where Peter Parker gets a Tony Stark design suit which they call the Iron Spider that this is kind of hinting at but not really the same at all I think the the idea here is that movie viewers know that iron man has a suit that talks to him and so if you're going to have spider-man be given a suit by tony stark there is this assumption that maybe it's an iron man suit essentially which is what they play with when they when the kid hackers which is a little bit ridiculous disengage all the safety protocols and turn on the full span of the suit but i don't recall reading a story like this although i really my favorite thing about them having tony stark build him a suit is it explains how he could get a suit that looks so good because that's never really well explained in spider-man lore and it allows that um the they they in civil war they

explain like he's got special instead of wearing goggles he's got these eye these eye holes that can telescope and things like that but what what that does that little trick is it allows the movie spider-man suit to do what the comic book spider-man suit does which is his eyes on his mask are expressive which makes sense in the comics but when you try to do that in real life action it doesn't work like the physics of it doesn't work it's all about like comic book artists adding expressivity to spider-man's mask and so in this they get it because they say it's a you know it's a special high-tech suit that can adjust the eyes based on what peter's doing inside the suit which is you know whatever it's tech explanation um you know for magic things that

happen but in the end it allows it gives them uh the freedom to style the face of spider-man and have it be expressive even when he's in the suit and it looks great so that's a reason for it the yeah the ai thing is not really taken from anywhere but it's it's it's good because it shows he's totally out of his depth and it's useful in the story because uh gives him at several points when he's alone it gives him someone to talk to that's one of the reasons i really liked it and you know it i think they added just a different dimension which i just really enjoyed it i thought it was a really smart addition um i think the the iron spider suit is what is what tony has for him at the end of the

movie right like that's what that is it's like a super souped up um yeah super souped up suit because it's also got the bigger golden spider on it right which he yeah in the comics i believe he gets like after civil war right when they kind of align yes or during during i think it's maybe even during the civil war or right before and it's one of the reasons that peter aligns with him in the comics yeah he's in the cool suit so it sounds like that in the in the uh in the previews for that new avengers movie that this is that's that's where they're going with that like tony trying to to soup up what Spider-Man does but I like that in fact

at the end of the movie one of the great things that happens is when Peter rejects Tony's like we're going to have you move into the Avengers complex and not be a student and not be a student anymore and not be living at home with Aunt May and I'll give you this super high tech suit

that he leaves and I like that because we we haven't even mentioned michael keaton yet but i like that michael keaton um you know he gives that speech that's a really great speech about like these guys don't care about us we're the little guy and he's not wrong he's not wrong he's a great villain speech because it is a it is not like you listen to it and go he's a madman it's like oh i see why his worldview leads him to do what he does which is a great that's what i want from a villain is i want a villain who makes sense so he says that and then when peter turns down tony i cannot help but think of the echo of the vulture speech which is um you know these guys you're not like these people you belong back in queens and i like that he gets his sort of regular suit back at the end so he still gets like what

tony gave him originally but not the super high-tech tricked out avengers thing that um that he had on display at the press conference yeah he's gonna need that with thanos right you'll need it but right now he does right he is as tony i love that tony did it the friendly neighborhood spider-man like i like the way they worked that in that was real nice i like that a lot um let's touch on michael keaton just one i mean amazing right of course the guy you know everybody knows he's going for a career renaissance right now right which i guess started with birdman um you know he's he's he's got you know he he's one of those those actors that like later in life has found a new level of success every villain is the hero of

their own story and you see it with michael keaton he is a hero he is he takes the injustice of having the government and tony stark take away business. And he uses the alien tech that he's scrounged to build a new business and buy a nice house and take care of his family. And then he reacts when the family is threatened. And he gives that speech. He is the hero of his own story. His motivations are reasonable. He is as realistic a villain as you're ever going to find in a superhero movie.

And I love it doesn't really feel like an intrinsically bad person he's just a guy who does some things that are questionable but the motives are he's he's he's made some bad decisions in the name of taking care of his family he kills someone by accident right like he kills that guy by accident yeah he does which is kind of funny broken up about it though i know he's not you know because he's like what are you gonna do uh yeah and then like you know he because uh peter saved his daughter's life he won't kill him right won't kill him right he's like i'm gonna let this go just don't come for me um and you know he's like the plane doesn't have any humans on it and he knows that right like the

plane that he hijacks and then obviously right at the end of the movie he effectively tries to save peter's life because he saved his right like yes good man put in a bad situation does some bad things right like that and that's what i really loved about the character is this is not normal because even in usual superhero movies even if it's a regular person, which is how it tends to be now, that gets put into some kind of situation or something happens to them, they just become evil. Right. And then that's just how they deal with their stuff. Right. Liz, I want to talk about Liz because you tweeted something that intrigued me.

I knew it would get you. You knew it was going to come for me. You compare Liz to Diane from Say Anything, and I would like you to expand on that a little bit. Okay. So the background story is that the people who wrote this movie, including John Francis Daly, who played Linda Cardellini's little brother on freaks and geeks, which is kind of amazing. And one of Martin star, who is one of the other geeks in freaks and geeks is in this movie as the science teacher.

And of course, yeah, the connections are amazing because of course, James Franco was in freaks and geeks and he was Harry Osborn in the earlier Spider-Man movies. And Linda Cardellini from freaks and geeks is Hawkeye's wife in, in age of ultron oh the connections are amazing and one of the screenwriters of this movie is the the kid brother

anyway um they said that they modeled this movie after a john hughes movie especially the breakfast club and you can totally see it like the group of kids in the high school like um like uh the the girl who we end up discovering is is mj where everyone in my screening was like oh when that happened yeah yeah she's so but she's so ali sheedy kind of and you know you got the popular girl and you got the you got the kind of uh bully and i mean it is it is very they were they said they were inspired by 80s movies and i can feel it. And in fact, some of the reviews I've read, I don't entirely agree with this because I really liked all of it, but some of the reviews have said it's a fine superhero movie, but it's a great high school movie.

And I can see where they're coming from because the high school stuff really lends, it makes this more than just another superhero movie. There is this whole other layer that is exactly what you want out of a Spider-Man movie, in my mind, is that other layer of his life as a regular high school student, and how does he balance them, and how does being Spider-Man kind of mess with his regular life? But the movie that I haven't seen cited, because it's not a John Hughes movie, and I just suddenly realized it when I was editing The Incomparable, in fact, not even when we were talking about it. I made a reference to say anything in the movie or in the in the podcast and didn't take it the next step which is um liz is like diane court in saying anything say anything in the sense that

diane and say anything loves her dad her dad takes care of her and she's she doesn't have a mom in this case uh liz has a mom but loves loves her dad. Dad takes care of her, and everything in Diane's house is less than $10,000 in value because his dad is a tax cheat and an embezzler, and he gets sent to prison. And Liz lives in a nice house, and I made the joke on The Incomparable

that it's a nice house, but everything in it costs less than $10, because michael keaton is a criminal right and and gets put in the pokey at the end of the movie and that was that moment when i went oh yeah talk about another reference intentional or not but i i had that moment where i thought liz is the liz is a brain she's not a social outcast like diane is but she's a brain she's the she's the captain of the academic decathlon team that wins the national championship, right?

This is, and it's the most important thing in her knife life. So although she's beautiful and looks like she would probably be the most beautiful person at the arts and magnet school, she's still a nerd really. And her dad is, uh, is somebody she loves and who takes care of her,

but is actually a criminal and lets her whole family down while he thinks he's taking care of his the family and the immediate reference i got was to diane from say anything because it felt like the same sort of story so yeah you're right and i i really as you can imagine i love the liz character right because web slinging in my brain sport of the future yeah it's it's there you mentioned um character michelle who at the end of the movie says she goes by mj which is just just so good and also just like the attitude of that character is not mary jane and she is not red hair right like i love that i love all of that i love everything they're doing there the message they're sending

is you think you know about spider-man stock characters but you don't we're gonna do some different stuff and don't don't don't expect what you know don't expect a red-headed girl to walk in and say face a chapter tiger you just hit the jackpot it's not gonna happen yeah and that's great i like the mix with the miles morales um story arc with the inclusion of the Ned character. Yeah, because Ned is basically Gank from Miles Morales' story, which is a slightly portly Asian teenager who is his friend and confidant and knows that he's Spider-Man. That is right out of the Miles Morales storyline.

And it's a great character, and it's great to give him a confidant. And of course, at the end, Aunt May finds out he's Spider-Man too and this is that's that's all right out of the ultimate Spider-Man stories about Peter and Miles and I think that's great because Peter on his own only knowing as the only person who knows he's Spider-Man is kind of boring I don't really want him to be known by everybody but having a bunch of people who know him and support him leads to better drama i would say and a more modern take on it um if you think about ultimate spider-man or something like buffy the vampire slayer having you know team spider-man is a i think a better approach to it and the cast then i mean throughout is great right marisa tomei fantastic heart may

donald glava played a great role in the movie. Yeah, he's in two scenes. And after the first scene, I was really sad that he wasn't coming back. And then he came back for a great scene where he just wants to get home with his groceries. And he's been webbed to his car. Yeah. And he gives a nice lecture to Spider-Man where he's like, you need to be better at this part of your job. Because he's a kid and he has no idea what he's doing.

to be better at this part of your job because he's a kid and he has no idea what he's doing. And the Easter egg there is that Donald Glover's character that he's playing is, and the reason that he's in the first scene trying to get some sort of like thieving equipment. He doesn't want weapons. He wants like things that let you stick to walls and stuff. It's because his character is in the Marvel canon known as the Prowler. He's Aaron Douglas, I think I want to say his name is. He's the Prowler. And at one point he mentions to Spider-Man in that second scene,

you're from Queens, my nephew lives in Queens. His nephew is Miles Morales. That is awesome. Yeah, little tidbit, little... That's really interesting. Do you reckon I'm going to do something with that? I don't know. Who knows? Some things are just easter eggs and if they go with them i i think uh the interview i read with the screenwriters basically said they're like did you have a plan for the second movie and putting these things in there and they're like you know what

are we gonna is there gonna be a second movie are we gonna work on the second movie what do they want from the second movie he's like i get the impression that you put it you put in that stuff as potential threads or fun easter and, and you just shrug. I don't, I don't think there's a master plan yet. Now this movie having done very well, maybe they will bring these writers back and maybe they will pick up some of those threads, but I don't think they wrote this with a plan for what, uh, the second of these Spider-Man movies would be. I don't, I don't think so. It's just, I do. I do think that is a fun tip of the cap to Miles Morales.

And, uh, I like that. And plus they use the Ned character is, is right out of Miles's story, which is fun. Yeah. And I also just thought that Jon Favreau and Robert Downey Jr.

played their parts perfectly without overshadowing Tom Holland. Um, I think that they fit into the story. Well, the, these are the, how many dads does he have since he doesn't have a dad he has he has john fevereau who like is sort of his babysitter more than a dad but

he gives you know he he's he's the one he's trying to get approval from uh robert downey jr is this remote you know dad who uh he can't get to and then he's got uh he's got michael keaton who's his villain dad who wants to he has money dad he has yeah babysitter dad yeah it's interesting um teach and in the end in the end he uh despite what we've seen from the beginning which is being starstruck by robert downey jr by by tony stark he he goes back home and uh i like that. I like that choice that maybe not everything is the Avengers, even if he will totally be in the next Avengers movie. Like the idea that he's not going to become Tony Stark's superhero university enrollee number one, right? He's going to go be a regular kid and live a normal life and be Spider-Man. And he makes that choice. I really like that too. But Downey is good. And it is a funny gag when

he... When Pepper Potts opens the door and it turns out there was a press conference and it wasn't a test. And that was pretty funny because I assumed it was a test and just as Peter did. But I do think there was maybe a little too much Downey. Like maybe the scenes could have been shorter and the last scene where it's just him and Pepper, it was unnecessary. We talked about this on The Incomparable. And I got a sense from it that a little bit of insecurity from Sony

and from Marvel, frankly, that they needed a lot of Downey in the movie in order to prop it up and make it feel like a Marvel movie. And in the end, they didn't, but they didn didn't know that i can see the feeling of necessity just to like really drive home the point that this is a different spider-man and spider-man is now a part of this world and like you know ideally have a few different characters why do you think chris evans is in it a bunch right like just you know yes just do what you can to show that that spider-man is part of this world and the plot is about garbage left over from

the avengers battle of new york right that's in there at the beginning as a as a fairly easy like with the daredevil and other netflix tv shows that have that as a backdrop of we're down on the ground in new york city but remember when there was this thing, remember the fallout from when they had this battle in the middle of New York. They continue to mine that without you really needing to know the continuity other than there was a disaster and a bunch of alien garbage got left everywhere.

Yeah, like, I mean, there was this one fight one time. That was so many years ago. And like the Iron Man 3 built on it, right? Like this movie's built on it. As you say, like the Daredevils, like it's all all building on it it's kind of funny in a way that like and i mean i haven't seen it but i'm only going to assume that agents of shield is partly based on the fact that there was this fight in new york like it is kind of funny like when you think about um superhero movies in general about the fact that there are always fights in new york and there was just this

one this one time and then like it's so many more movies are pulling from it like if you think of the DC universe New York has been like destructed like a billion times over by now it's not it's not even New York it's like Metropolis and Gotham and whatever it's sort of a fictionalized but yeah yeah of course but yeah anyway I'm thinking like the Superman movies, right? Like they just keep getting, Metropolis just keeps getting flattened, which is kind of funny. Yeah, this is a quick thing. When we left the movie,

Dina was like, we should see Wonder Woman 2. And I'm assuming that this is a good choice, right? Like people seem to really like that movie because I just said to her like, you know, I wasn't initially enthused to see it because everything else i've seen from the dc universe i haven't enjoyed but i would you would you recommend wonder woman yes okay yes unabashedly and you don't need to know anything about i here's what you need to know about other dc movies before you see wonder woman uh bruce wayne met wonder woman once and uh and she had a picture of people from world war one that's it you didn't really need to know that because it's in the opening sequence but that's that's it like literally the one thing you need to know is immediately recapped

and the rest of the movie happens and you don't need to know yeah because initially i just naturally assumed i wasn't going to enjoy it because I hadn't enjoyed any of the other post post like good Batmans you know like past that Batman trilogy you know I didn't like Superman Man of Steel so I just figured I just wouldn't enjoy it but it seems like that Wonder Woman's at least broken that curse for the time being

alright so I think that wraps up this week's episode Jason But it seems like that Wonder Woman's at least broken that curse for the time being. All right. So I think that wraps up this week's episode, Jason. I think so. I think so. A little bonus Mike of the movies. I feel like it's a good thing for episode 150. Yeah.

Why not? Because this is just, you know, it's a big number. Yes. I just want to take a moment to thank all of our listeners. I think that Upgrade, I'm very proud of the show um and the work that we put into it and it continues to grow and evolve and change in ways that make me happy um and i'm excited about you know as time goes on and we add more funny segments and you know we have our recurring annual episodes and stuff like that.

Like, I'm really proud of this show and I'm really proud of how it's grown over time. And, you know, so whether you've been here since the beginning or you came as part of the show along the way, thank you for listening to the show. We really couldn't do it without you being here because otherwise there'd be nobody to listen. And also, you know, thank you to everybody for their participation every week. The hashtag SnellTalk, hashtag AskUpgrade. I never have to fight to get that stuff through. It's always there. There's always stuff for me every week.

So thank you to everybody that is a part of the show as well by their participation. And Jason, thank you for being here with me every week. It's a real pleasure. Well, i'm i'm very glad this was the i was telling somebody this story not too long ago that that was one of the uh decisions i made first when i knew i was leaving my old job was i wanted to do a podcast in this

format and with relay starting up uh it it felt like the obvious thing to do would be to do that podcast with you at Relay. And that has been borne out as a very good decision. So thank you. Thanks to our sponsors this week, Blue Apron, Mack Weldon, and Encapsular. You can find Jason online. He is at JasonL on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L. He's over at SixColors.com as well and TheIncomparable.com. I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll over at sixcolors.com as well, and theincomparable.com. I am at

imyke, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye.