Upgrade - 196: Workflow Siren

Episode Date: June 4, 2018

Live from WWDC, Jason and Myke break down the major announcements for iOS, macos, and watchOS, including a close result in the Upgrade Keynote Draft, the emergence of user automation on iOS via Siri, potentially big changes to the Mac App Store, and the upcoming workout battle between our two hosts.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 196 today's show is brought to you by away ero and timing my name is mike hurley i am joined across this lovely table somewhere in a secret location in san j, California by Mr. Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Hi, Mike Hurley from high above San Jose, California. Looking down upon the beautiful developers below, the migration of developers that is occurring from the WWDC Convention Center to many various lunch and coffee places around as it is lunchtime.

Because we have just seen the end of the keynote, the WWDC keynote for this year. And we've got a ton to talk about. But, of course, we must start every episode as we always do with a hashtag Snow Talk question. And this one comes from me to you, Jason, because I wanted to ask a follow-up question based upon last week's question of your seating in the keynote. How was your seat at the keynote this year? Really good. Oh, look at you.

Really good. you'll see at the keynote this year really good oh look at you really good usually what's happened at wwdc is they bring in the media and they take us all the way off to the side and put us kind of like way in the back on the side and i fully expected that this time and they let us to basically right in the front so we were center so what we we know is that somebody, this person in charge of seating, listened to last week's episode and they were like, oh, we cannot have Jason Snow in our position. We must give him a great seat. They decided to take us media type people and put us in the center,

which was very nice. It was a much nicer view than we've had lately. I could see the people on stage a little bit, and that was good. And I was sitting with Serenity Caldwell to my right and Rene Ritchie to my left. Jim Dalrymple was a couple people down. Ina Freed from Recode was a couple people down. Just a lot going on, yeah. So should we do the draft results?

Yeah, let's do it. So I believe, if memory serves, I won last year's WWDC draft, right? Because we tied for the year where I won WWDC and you won the September event. Right. I don't want to speak too soon, Jason, but I think I might have won this one too. I think so. I have us scored at five points for you and either six or seven points for me. Would you like me to read how I've scored this?

I would like to see that. So I've given you a point for new parental controls, new Animoji, ARKit updates, HomeKit on macOS, which was the biggest surprise for me of your points, and a HomePod mention. Because HomePod was mentioned a couple of times, especially with Siri shortcuts. Like, you can activate Siri shortcuts from your HomePod. Oh. That's a mention. Because HomePod was mentioned a couple of times, especially with Siri shortcuts. Like, you can activate Siri shortcuts from your HomePod.

Oh. That's a mention. That is. That's a mention. That's all I was looking for. Well, that's great, because I only scored four, because I totally missed that mention. So five for me.

Hooray. The one that I think I'm the most proud of was the Digital Wellbeing Overarching Concept. They didn't give it a name, but they were like, and it was exactly what I said, right? Parental controls and notifications and do not disturb will be called out as a thing

and they're going to talk about them and they did exactly that. So then with that, I got notifications overhaul, focus on bug fixes, performance improvements and stability. Animoji integration in FaceTime, do not disturb overhaul

and a mention of user automation or workflow. The one that I'm not sure about is because we'll get to this later on. I was a little bit distracted during the Apple Watch part, and the overhaul for app developer APIs. I mean, there were new ones, but it didn't

really feel overhauled in the way I was expecting. I didn't score it that way. If that is indeed there it's not something that they know they will reveal it later they definitely introduced a bunch of new additions but it didn't feel like an overhaul in the way that i was imagining it anyway i agree i agree so i would score this at five to you and six to me which means i picked up the draft win yeah i think i'm gonna go with that i could probably quibble um you know the thing that won it for you because i will concede that you won um the thing that won you won it from you well

there's a couple of things here i i am amazed and we'll get into it i am amazed at mention of user automation slash workflow yeah and technically they didn't mention workflow but that's because they released a new app that is workflow and also with a different name automator and also automator was mentioned on stage okay the one that won it for you though is you said focus on bug fixes slash performance improvements slash stability and my reason of not taking that was because I thought Apple's not going to do – they're going to have too much pride to say mea culpa, stability bug fixes. But performance improvements, Mike. Performance improvements.

That's the way you say it, right? But even then, though, like – But the whole section was labeled performance. So that's absolutely what it was. So I tip my hat to you six five hard fought close i didn't embarrass myself like you did in chicago and we're tied um i would say one of the the funny this one i scored all of my points really soon and i thought i was gonna like just run away completely wipe the floor and you pulled back especially because the that when we were coming

down to it, I was like, there's no way he's getting home kit. I was like, no, there's no way. And I was really surprised that he did that. There was a very good reason for it that we'll get into a little later on. So we're going to talk about iOS 12 and macOS and watchOS today. But before we do, I kind of wanted to talk about WWDC as a whole because being here in San Jose,

everyone over the last 24 to 48 hours has been talking about one thing and that one thing is it's gonna be boring right like there's no leaks we're gonna have a boring year so my question to you was this a quiet year or was this a secretive year well it I think a little bit of both. I think it's a quiet year. Sometimes they do hardware, and we mentioned hardware in our draft picks. Zero hardware. I love the expectation setting. Actually, at the beginning and end of the keynote, there were a couple of moments that I thought were very smart,

where Apple could have gone another way, and they chose at the beginning to say, it's all about software. And the message there was very clear, which is... Don't expect this. There will be no hardware in this keynote. Just forget it. Remember, they used to do that. At least one year, they actually leaked to the New York Times or something, a story saying there will not be hardware at the keynote because they wanted to get that out there and set the expectations.

So they did that right at the beginning. That said, there's a lot going on here in terms of the operating systems which is what this thing is about that is what wwdc is about it is about making uh you know it's the new year for apple the start the clock start the summer working on the os's that will drop in the fall with the iphone releases and on we go. And so they can keep a lot of that stuff secret and they did. Some of it leaked, but the details didn't. If you define this as like no hardware,

so it's boring, then yeah, okay, I guess. But they did make a bunch of statements about where they're taking their platforms, which is why we're here. Yeah, see, I was thinking that, and I think we were both assuming there would be hardware because we didn't think

there was going to be a lot of software stuff. And I would say that on the whole, I was thinking that, and I think we were both assuming there would be hardware because we didn't think there was going to be a lot of software stuff. And I would say that on the whole, there was. I'm actually quite surprised at just how much there was, especially there were some strange pacing moments during the keynote where they would start talking about news and stocks and iBooks or Apple Books. And it's like, okay, where are we going with this? And then they would come in with another huge feature and it was really it was a really interesting balance in this one to the point where i'm pretty surprised just how much we got and i think that i'll agree with you that there are definitely some elements where it was quiet but i think that overall the reason we didn't know anything beforehand is nobody was talking beforehand like this was a year where clearly the secrecy has

worked because there was some really key parts of this like a lot of the siri improvements and stuff like that um a lot of the the a lot of the details stuff like memoji a lot of the ar kit stuff some of it got out but not all of it and and i think that that was really that's really really interesting um the videos were really fun too, I think. The videos to open and close were really good. I liked those a lot. Yeah, they did a good job. I think they did a good job of showing the people that were there that they cared

because they were kind of like important people in the indie Apple development community were very clearly called out in comedic ways as like a we get this we're in this with you and i think that that really set a good tone for the day yeah um visible appearances by people we know who are who are fairly visible in the community that was nice yep and to set the tone of like we know we, we know we get you. And genuinely funny too. Like I loved that idea of the migration and, and it was like, whilst making fun, it was in a harmless way, like ways that we all make fun of ourselves. Yeah.

We're out, we're with you. Yeah. And the sun. Oh no. And you know, like the guys with their passes joining up and everyone's so awkward around each other. Like it worked. Like, and I think they, they've really walked a line that could have been like they're making fun of us but i think they they

absolutely perfectly nailed the tone of those videos and i and obviously they had a big emotional video at the end right like as you do with an event like this so so i was really i was really impressed with that um and just as a very quick kind of wrap up like some of the i guess the key messages like gap stores turning 10 soon that's probably going to be a really big deal from a press release thing i think that's pretty soon right it's the next few weeks or something the app store turns 10 that was what tim was pointing out at the beginning so all of that stuff is really interesting um i think that i've come away from this being um i was pretty surprised and i'm pretty happy with the amount that was announced. I think that we got a lot of really good stuff.

So we should probably get into some of those. We probably should. Let me take our first break first and thank our friends over at Away for their support of this week's show. Away makes smart premium suitcases so your luggage will never cost more than your plane ticket. When you're traveling, if you're anything like me there are some features that you're going to be looking for. One of them is going to be battery. I'm always looking for more battery when I travel and both of the sizes of Away's carry-on cases feature USB ports with an integrated battery which is large enough

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And the code upgradepodcast for $20 off. Our thanks to Away for their support of this show and RelayFM. iOS 12. Should we start with iOS 12? Yeah, let's do it. So what are the iOS features that you are the most interested in if everything announced today like what were the things that really have got you either feeling kind of surprised or interested like what is the stuff that's going on

that you're the most engaged with really i mean the idea that they're doing all of this sort of managing your distractions is interesting to me but i am very particularly interested in the fact that they're letting you do notifications i i didn't think it was super realistic that apple was going to provide you with tools to control notifications directly from within the notification exactly what you asked for last it is exactly the right like literally make this only go to the screen and not pop up or make it go away forever or give me specific options about what to do with this thing and even they said that like siri can recommend to you to just say like stop getting notifications from this app you never use it right like stuff like that it's like yeah please yeah that's what i need and i loved that they called out grouped notifications

and it was so fun as introducing it you also had it before you removed it i mean this is smarter the grouping so they're grouping not just by app but also by like topics and i'm interested to see what that's actually going to mean like maybe social applications or get grouped together or something like that and i'm keen to see what that actually looks like looks like they're using um app store in a few places in in uh their announcements today they're using i think app store classifications or something in order to organize apps together in in groupings yeah but uh it sounds like you can also break out by app you know app name and i'm just i'm excited about that i i think that those changes to notifications are going to be really big for me and the way that i manage my devices you know um and then kind of i guess

hand in hand with that is do not disturb stuff i really liked that because, I mean, I had it this morning, right? So I'm jet lagged right now. So I woke up at like 4.30 this morning. And while I grabbed my phone to look at the time, and there were a bunch of notifications there, and I kind of got a little bit distracted by the notifications that popped up. And this do not disturb, do not disturb during bedtime. It just hides it. And you have to like forcibly check it. so you can look at the time on your phone but not necessarily get drawn in by all

the notifications no like oh god the world is ending exactly right below it or just like hey mike check out this great offer waiting for you oh i want to know about great offers so i open my email um i like that and then like in the morning they show you like the oh, I want to know about great offers. So I open my email. I like that. And then in the morning, they show you the weather. And you have to say, I'm ready for my day. These are really smart things that are not based upon this incredible machine learning. You know what I mean? This is something that you could be like, well, it's bedtime. So just stop showing notifications.

We know what time he wakes up because he's got an alarm. We'll change it then. That is very simple stuff that comes with thought. And I can see a lot of thought has gone into this and I think it's really cool. Yeah. And it seems simple in one way, but in many ways, these are the kind of features that will have the biggest impact on people's lives. So many people use iPhones and it is such a personal device. It is integrated into your life. That really every interaction that they modify, think of it this way. Every iOS user out there, every iPhone user, if you save them five seconds a day, you've saved, what, thousands of years of human lives with one feature change?

thousands of years of human lives with one feature change. Like the impact is great for something as simple as you get back to sleep because you don't see all your notifications or it keeps things simple in the morning until you're ready for it. Like that, that is going. And the fun thing about being at these events and thinking about this stuff is we're talking about it now, but in the fall when people update their OS on their iPhone,

that's when it's going to start hitting regular people, and it's going to change their lives too in little ways, but important ways in some cases when they update to 12. I kind of like the way that Apple pitched it as well because without implicitly saying it, it's kind of like, well, we kind of created a problem here. We know we can see what's going on we understand how people were using these things and we're going for it and again like a lot of this stuff um was in is in uh the next version of android mp but i but that would it made me want them even more so like seeing apple do something

like screen time which was kind of like the third leg of this stool that's exactly what i wanted and it's very similar to what um android are doing i i don't know i didn't catch this i'm not sure if it's like if this is part of settings or if it's a separate app i wasn't completely clear about yeah i'm not clear on that i'm sure somebody's already looked at the web page and and downloaded the beta and installed it and there are people in the chat room that have literally already stored the bear on yeah ipad's more power to you um i love the idea of being able to i mean i'm a time tracker right it's a big thing that i do being able to go into my ipad and see and it syncs across all of my devices which is even better and be like oh i spent oh i've spent like 20 hours this week on

twitter yeah like maybe i should maybe i should settle set a little lower level and try to cut back and i love that the limits thing is really clever because and i like it they were kind of like look we can set these limits you can override them you know i was struck by that about how apple's recent especially with the the apple watch um more than the iphone their focus on health feeds into this feature like this is like like a lot of the stats stuff it looks like the health app it looks like it looks like the exact same things that we see stats on for our health, except here it's about usage. And I can feel that history of dealing with that stuff feeding into the way that they handle this stuff, right down to the fact that they're providing the realization that they're providing motivation. Unless it's parental controls where there's actually a lockout. Somebody else has the permission to override it.

But for you personally, yeah, you can just dismiss it. But the idea is that they're providing a motivator for you. And that's very much something that comes out of the health side. Plus all the charts and everything feel very much like it. This is mental health stuff. Yeah, it is. This stuff has big impacts on the way that people live their lives. And I am very happy to see Google and Apple

standing up at the same time and trying to do something about this. Yeah, I was on the radio this morning. And if you don't know what the radio is, radio is a thing that they made before they made podcasts. It's like podcasting. Except it's linear. It's just I was on and then I was gone.

And then that was it. Where's Jason? Can I get him back? No, you can't. He's gone. It's like I was on and then I was gone. And then that was it. That's it. Where's Jason? Can I get him back? No, you can't. He's gone. It's like remember when podcasts were just on iPods? It's like that, but there are these things called radios. Anyway, I was on the radio and they said, what's Apple's motivation for doing something like this?

Because this was a rumored feature and I mentioned it. And the implication was if you're the drug pusher, don't you always want to keep them addicted? And I think, first off, we could say, either positively or negatively, smartphones aren't going away. Either we could say we're all addicted to them, it's too late. Or we could say they are too valuable and too important for them to ever go away. too valuable and too important for them to ever go away. Either way, it is the time to deal with the fallout of their existence and how much they dominate our lives. And in that way, yes, it is time.

You know, they didn't realize when they built this stuff quite how human behavior was going to change. And now we all know. And the next step is to factor that in to your design. all know and the next step is to factor that in to your design like good design is not just how do i get people evil apps evil apps like games that make you they're trying to get you addicted they're like you they have a lot of gaming apps they'll have like psychologists on staff and it's all about like how do we the best way to trick yeah. How do we promote this and get it so that people keep using it? But the right way to do it is to look at it and say, okay, turns out we built this thing just because we thought it would be cool and it has this predicted behavior.

Where do we go from here? How do we get this to where we want it to be, where we want it to give people a little more empowerment to understand what they're doing with their lives and how to make changes. And that's not, to get back to the radio thing, I don't think that's antithetical to the values of Apple or Google, for that matter, in terms of building these tools because they know how indispensable smartphones are. This is not about trying to tell you

not to use your smartphone because they know you're going to use your smartphone. It's just about using it better still use it yeah right like because they still need you to they it's important to them that you use it but it is about time now after having these things for like nearly 15 years 10 15 years right that we have got into these bad habits as as smartphone users and it's time the only people that can change it are the people that are feeding it and that's right that's that's the platform right and giving giving you tools to do it yourself is um you know the the first step is accepting sort of

like the premise and then you need to as a developer or you know in this case apple developer of the system system software is to say, what do we want this to be? And the answer is, let's give people tools so that they can manage their own usage. And this also trickles down to parents too as well. So I guess if you're in an iCloud family sharing thing, you can enforce all of these restrictions.

Yeah, it's like the reverse of, a lot of times this stuff comes out of parental controls. This feels like it's like the reverse of a lot of times this stuff comes out of parental controls. This feels like it's almost the reverse where it's knowledge of how your usage is and you can set your own levels. But if you're a parent, you can lock it down for children, which I'm going to – I will be fascinated to see what the time profile is of my kids using their devices. That's going to be, well, yeah. And there is that question, like with my,

with my daughter, do I say, all right, you need to cut back on the Instagram time. Right. But this was something that Apple was under fire for of not providing better parental controls on iOS devices. So here it is.

But I am really happy that this isn't just parental controls. Yes. Yeah. Because I want all of this stuff for me. Cause I think this data can be very helpful. Yeah, for everybody. And that's why I like that it's put in this larger story of everybody kind of paying more attention to how they use stuff and be more aware of it. As we've talked about before, whenever you do time tracking, you have that moment where you think, oh, really?

What happened for that hour? Where did that hour go? And sometimes you aren't aware. So having the stats can make a big difference in self-realization. moment where you think oh really what what happened for that hour where did that hour go and sometimes you aren't aware so having the stats can make a big difference in self-realization um in the chat room trisco has said that control center has moved on the ipad the gesture has moved um apparently all i know right now is that it's closer to uh the iphone so well i will say that we um although all all judgments are final if somebody can point out that the that the control center moving on the ipad appeared in that slide of all the features then then we would be tied but i don't even think there was there was

but this is not as a draft point but just as something that no i'm excited about the possibility center that's that's good um there are a couple of other uh items that i was pretty excited about um i've i've really so when the ar kit demo begun i was a bit like i don't know like it's fine okay like i'm very excited about it we gotta get it on stage we gotta show it but by the end of that Lego demo, which was long. Long. Very long demo. But I came away from it being pretty impressed by what they showed. I was impressed by the technology. I had a problem with the fundamentals of the Lego people showing us AR characters jumping around when you could just get out your minifigs and have them jump around. when you could just get out your minifigs and have them jump around.

But instead, what they were showing was basically like your Lego thing that you built unlocks a video game. And I think that's cool. Because, you know, it depends on how you come to it. But the play of the Lego may be in the building, and then the game helps fuel the imagination. It just depends on what your personal preference is about yourself or your children and video games. But I thought that that whole little segment was pretty cool. I liked a lot of the stuff. I liked that two people can be in some kind of AR instance

at the same time. I thought that was pretty cool. I liked that stuff, and I'm interested to see where it goes. I was really surprised to see Apple create this Measure app because they have at this point kind of Sherlocked every

good utility that I've seen in ARKit which is all this measuring stuff. I don't know why they felt the need to do it now. Yeah. They should have done this last year.

I find that very peculiar. They must just feel that it's a fundamental utility and that they could do it. It may also be that they were not impressed with any of those apps. And they thought, well, we'll show you how to do an AR app right. And we'll ship it on the device. And it's like the compass app. It's not going to set the world on fire. But it's something that everyone should have

because the hardware is so tuned to being able to give you this information. We'll give you it. But I feel bad for all the people that make that stuff. Memoji. Yeah. New Animoji character is not surprising not surprising me emoji though the custom character based on you and i was immediately taken back to um the we yeah we had we had we for

a long time and we played a lot of games on it my kids loved it but the one thing that they loved more than anything else more than any single game to the point that to this day i will sometimes walk into the room and find them on the wii u in wii mode just making me's and the me on the nintendo is you know make a character give them a skin color give them a haircut give them a skin color, give them a haircut, give them a body shape, give them eyebrows, all of those things. They loved it. They made an entire, literally, there is like a mob of me's on my Wii U. You go in there and you're like, oh my God, there's like 80 of them because my kids and their friends just kept on making them. Well, Memoji allows iOS users to build a little person and have it look whatever you want it to look like

and then use it as an Animoji. Yep. I use Bitmoji a lot. Me and Nadino use them together a lot. And there is that element of like building your own little character, right? But these characters are so visually impressive. And the tools, it looks so visually impressive and the tools it looks so cool to build them and i was really surprised how many places in the keynote it kept popping up

they clearly see this as an important thing which i think is great because i think we were talking about this like animoji should be in more parts of the system it shouldn't just be confined to the messages app so showing up in facetime all that all that facetime stuff's going to be really fun i think putting effects in facetime and having these large groups um maybe we switch for podcasting finally how about the idea that just as an aside that i think we were talking about maybe you have facetime with two people or maybe you have facetime with like five people and apple is like how about 32 people so here's my here's my question on this how do you go from zero to that many and then why 32

they must have just decided they wanted to spend and set an upper limit and i think the rationale is that if you've got a messages group right of family or friends or whatever that you open it up and not everybody's going to be there and not everybody's going to get, everybody's going to be on so that you may have people coming and going and stuff. There is an app called a service called house party, which is pretty popular with young people. And it is this idea of it is persistent video chat that you have these groups

called rooms in the house and uh you can just drop in at any point and some of your friends might be there and some won't be and you can leave that's what apple has clearly been inspired by to build because you know you can set them up with these group text groups and you just go in and you're there and you can leave i think this is really fun i think this would be a good feature i'm it's just like i'm i'm really pleased that it's here. It's just so surprising that you would go from like two for how many years has FaceTime been around? For years and years and years.

And they're like, oh, well, now everyone. Everyone in your Facebook. Yeah, everybody. Literally everybody you know. Just get them all on a FaceTime together. And I did like that they have it where they're trying to dynamically scale like who's been talking lately and who's hanging back. So for the video side of it. What are they going off?

Are they going off the Hangouts? What is this? Do you think? I think this is, I would say this is not targeted in anything in particular, but it's more like Apple is building a whole social network inside of messages. Yeah, I like that. inside of messages. Yeah, I like that. Where it's like,

instead of building a website where you interact with other people, it's all ad hoc, it's all on messages, it puts more pressure on people who don't have iPhones. And in there, you can chat, you can send files,

you can send pictures, and you can do video chat or audio chat or whatever. It's all just poured into messages. Because they know people like messages and use messages all the time. So just load even more in there. It's interesting.

And I think it's... And you could be a Memoji if you want to be. And I'm just... Oh yeah. They look really good. They look really good. Like the way that the presenter was showing it was so cool

because they were just showing her screen to us. All we could see was just her creation creation screen but as she's talking her character is animating everything you start as like a bald blob and then you evolve from there it was weird weird but i'm i'm really excited to play around with that and i'm super excited to see where they take that um as as a thing because that is like that is a really really exciting way to move emoji forward i think and and it's going to be cool for apple to to kind of because look as soon as they show this i was like oh no because samsung did that a emoji thing right it was super horrific and weird but for whatever reason i mean i guess it's the cute and the cute animation and the better technology means it looks way better.

And how many, thinking bigger picture, because the iPhone X is out, right? How many Face ID true depth devices are they going to sell this fall? Because you know there'll be an iPhone 10 and an iPhone 10 Plus and that iPhone 9 or whatever that's rumored that will also have the forward cameras that will support Animoji and presumably the iPads too.

So they're going to have all these devices because this is the thing. People are going to want Memoji and Animoji. They're going to want to build that stuff. Exactly. And Apple looks like they're going to want Memoji. Their own emoji. And Animoji. It's like the reason that we use Bitmoji, right? Exactly. And Apple looks like they're going to, you know, sure, if you got these models, these new models,

you get that feature. And that's going to help them sell products. And tongue detection. And tongue detection. I know that sounds silly, but I still do this. I still stick my tongue out with Animoji. Because, I don't know it's just like a thing like it makes you know part of making a funny face and so you know and it's like

it's great to be a koala or a t-rex or whatever but i want to be me yeah because everyone tries to find an emoji that they feel sums them up as a person well now i don't need to do that because i could just be me or i could make you and i could be you. I might make a little Jason. Now, Stephen Hackett, though, he needs to just remain the lion. Because he is a lion. He is the lion emoji. He is a lion. But there's a tiger now.

There is a tiger. I could be the tiger. He could be the lion. And I would be a monkey, I think, in that scenario. There's still a few more things. There's still a gigantic, mind-blowing thing

we haven't talked about about iOS. And a little thing I want to talk about about photos. A little thing that you're excited about. One, which is like I cannot even begin to fathom the ramifications of something like this. I'll walk you through it. The sinking feeling I had as I realized what I was seeing.

And before it got to the big denouement at the end of that demo, it was amazing. I was like elbowing Rene and Serenity. And I was like, you see what that is? You see what that is? But we'll get there. We'll get there this episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Timing we love Timing they're doing a great thing for us right now

they're sponsoring this show they're sponsoring a bunch of our shows over at WWDC they're really helping us this week and we really love them for that and with all this new stuff coming up we've just been talking about it how great it is to know how we spend our time using technology and how we can get more productive using it.

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one of the things when I saw this, I was like oh, I remember the first time I saw timing on the Mac and I was like oh man, I would love something like this on iOS too because to be able to just go into your devices and see exactly how you're using them is super, super powerful and timing is also very

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Stop guessing how you spend your time and focus on doing what you're good at. We thank Timing for their support of this show and RelayFM and our live shows this year. Yes. Really appreciate it. So you got, I think, a little surprise, some photos enhancements.

I don't even think we were expecting anything there, really. There's always something with photos. And this is a really quick thing, but the best thing that Apple has had in photos the last few years has been search. The search stuff is amazing. And they made it better, including the one that you're going to think is obvious

because it was obvious, but they just didn't do it yet, which is searching for multiple items at once. So basically... I didn't know you could do that show me a photo show me a photo of cars horses with horses and mountains yeah and there's a mountain out there right where's the horse um and you can do that now so that's great and they broadened it out and they they added a whole bunch of like more places that they're floating it up one of the things that i've said before is um that photos be more fun. Like they need to do a better

job of floating kind of all of this material they've got. So now I've got a new tab that's going to say on this date, there was this photo, a lot of that stuff. And sharing and speaking of messages as a social network, rather than doing, it appears the sharing that I wanted, which is some direct library sharing so that my wife and I can have the same library, they are doing this thing where they're sharing full resolution photos with other people and doing face recognition to realize, oh, this person's in your photo. You should share with this group. And then you use messages to share it at full resolution and then what happens on the other side is that it scans their library and says you also have photos from this event would you like to throw them in the pod basically and that's very clever and it's all based on messages again

which is interesting that that's the it's all hub it's the linchpin of their of their but it's knowing that i mean that to me just shows they know how people use their devices i think that's right right and it's like we know that you have a close friend group you probably have a thread with them yeah right or like there is a bunch of chains or whatever that link all these people together and then they don't have to worry about like because they control messages they don't have to worry about like formats and putting it in places where you're going in email or like that. It stays in messages, and then messages can be hooked back into photos to say you just got this group photo set. I'm going to go back in the background and ask photos,

do I have photos from the same event, and throw them in the pile. That's something that they couldn't do with some outside service, at least not easily, and they can do it with their own. I like that Apple are giving me reasons to spend the time to do the face recognition stuff in photos. You know, like for me to say, this is Jason. Right, because then it's going to... Now it's worth it.

Because previously it was like, this isn't worth it to me. To actually say, this is this person, this is this person. But that's the kind of stuff that's going to be helpful. All right, so Siri shortcuts. Yeah, so Siri shortcuts is mind-blowing um and it seems i can't believe we're you know saying anything is mind-blowing that relates to siri but so the idea here is it's something we've talked about like how do you get apps more integrated with siri and the way they do it is they say any any app can expose some quick actions to Siri.

Very clearly, there's a little tile that shows up in your app that says, you know, you can add this to Siri. And once you do that, you can assign a phrase and say, hey, Siri, do this thing in this app. And it knows what that app can do. And it does it. And then from there, you can also do suggestions, because Siri's suggestions engine that already knew things about how you use your device at a time or at a place.

It showed one, like you order a coffee in the Fills app every morning. Well, it just starts popping up and saying, do you want to make that order? And it's from a notification, and you say, yeah. Right, so it used to be all kind of Apple based stuff. And now what it's saying is, if an app developer and you have to read between the lines here, but if an app developer has a defined function in their app, and say this is the ordering part, there's now a methodology to connect where Siri knows that that app can do that. You can give it a name and Siri will kick it off and not even open the app in the foreground.

And we'll do that and that it will then be part of Siri suggestions. This is the moment where I thought to myself, wait a second, once you're having apps identify, here's a function and here's how you can access it from outside you're basically it's basically automation it's basically scriptability or for ios purposes it's workflow because the whole way that things like workflow work is it's an app saying here are the things i can do and then somebody else can say, do that thing.

Or here's some information, process this thing. And knowing what we know, which is that the workflow app team was bought by not just Apple, but by the Siri group at Apple. Not widely known, but we mentioned it at least once or twice. This was that sinking feeling where I'm like oh i started elbowing like renee next to me and i said this is this is what the workflow people have been working on because this is very clearly subtly the underlying technology that they used being applied to individual actions kicked off by siri how clever what a great idea and then they said oh also we have an app called shortcuts

and it's totally workflow yeah which you can just build look at this you can build a thing and it will do all these things for you and then you trigger it with siri and i'm like okay not subtle anymore that's workflow this workflow is probably going away now i'm gonna assume the real question is how functional is the shortcuts versus workflow it shortcuts everything that workflow is like am i still getting my web api stuff yeah or is it gonna go or is it really dumbed down but then i'm thinking okay so let's say i use lose my web api stuff which would be which would suck right if that was to go but if this becomes a thing that's part of siri part of the os i will probably end up getting more utility out of it in the long run because more applications will be able to talk to this system and I will be able to chain stuff together.

When you're using a web API for like… Toggle for time tracking. Right. So what will happen is Toggle… Toggle can just integrate with shortcuts. We'll just build it in their app. So this is my hope, that we may lose some stuff, but this system is the system we always wanted. Yeah, my fear is that it will be really limited

and workflow will also die. And we'll end up with this kind of light version. I hope that doesn't happen. I hope it's more full featured than that it is really excited though that on stage at wwdc they demoed a user feature that is essentially automator right because that's what workflow is for ios where a bunch of unrelated steps are being applied together assigned to to a Siri shortcut. Like a morning thing, right? Yeah.

Playing a different radio station, ordering the coffee. Like that is amazing, right? Because these are things like that stuff, I can't do that stuff with workflow right now. So it's like, I might lose some stuff, but I want all that. Well, and it motivates more apps,

including really mainstream apps. That I think is maybe the biggest difference is Starbucks ever going to make an effort to build something in to support workflow? Never. Maybe they do, but maybe, because I don't know the background,

but my guess is no. And if they did, then somebody else, like is a big mainstream app that is not a nerdy iOS productivity app going to go to the trouble of like building in workflow support? No. But you look at the Siri thing and you're like, oh, yeah, we got to do that because we got to be able to say just tell Siri to order Starbucks and it automatically orders your drink and then you go pick it up like that. That's so cool. And that's the power of the platform owner putting it on every single iPhone.

I was going to say, I've been talking a lot about this over the last week. One of my biggest dreams of WWDC this year, one of my biggest hopes, is that we would see why. Why did Apple do this? And what they've shown on stage. That would have been a great draft pick.

An explanation for why Apple bought workflow. I feel like I kind of got it in there, right? You just sneak it in there, it turns out. But I didn't want to be so specific like that in the draft, right? So that was just like, give me automation. Automation for 10. But this reason is, for me, the best possible reason for them to buy that company.

Yes, this is the best case scenario in that way. Deep integration with the entire operating system and every app within it. Because the thing is, app developers will want to tie into the Siri shortcuts thing, where you can say, ask Siri to do this. And then, just as a user, we also then get the short we get the like the shortcuts app when we can then channel this stuff together what i like about it so when i heard there's sirens going on in the background i was so excited um that's right that's that's the workflow siren they did it everybody they did it um when when i found out when somebody

and i don't even remember when it happened but somebody came up to me and said you know who bought workflow right that's like two years ago it was siri i was like what like i assumed it would be the core os group and it wasn't it was siri i'm like that's really weird but over the intervening time what i've thought is well you know what best case scenario is what's the modern way on a modern operating system, especially on a handheld device, that you would do, you know, run scripts, run workflows,

do keyboard shortcut combinations? The answer is Siri, right? The answer is you build your shortcut and then you just tell it to execute it. And that's what they built, which is pretty great. I'm excited. And you can trigger them from the HomePod. That was your mention, and that's awesome.

Right? Right. I'm really excited. I cannot, like. There's going to be the letdown, right? There's going to be the letdown where we realize, oh, but it doesn't do this. And I'm prepared for it. I'm prepared for it.

And the thing is, here's the thing. Okay. The workflow app is a third-party app. They can't delete it from my phone. I can hang on to it for a while and then hope that they put in the features that I want and or wait for all of the third-party developers to receive pressure.

So, like, you know, I'm going to be emailing Toggle and saying, I really hope as a user, please look at this. Please, please integrate this. This is so powerful for your system. And I'm sure that the toggle developers are seeing that today and they're like, yes, that is perfect. Because I've always wanted to be able to, with my voice,

start a toggle timer and haven't had a way to do it. Also, and this just occurs to me now, the way workflow worked, you needed an app to support Workflow and do an app update. And then Workflow needed to be updated to add that app. To the directory. Whereas this, Siri Shortcuts, presumably, and we'll go to the conference and the developers will learn this. There's presumably a Siri Shortcuts API session. But there's an API, right?

Which means if you add it to your app I think it just shows up like as an option that would be my assumption right there's some call that you make to the system and then it just shows up because I would expect that you see all of the stuff what I want to see is you see all the stuff you have

and then they have it looks just like the home screen looks like workflow the workflow catalog thing that they have I'm really excited about this It looks just like Workflow. The home screen looks like Workflow. The workflow list looks like Workflow. I'm really excited about this. I am so, so happy to see that this is the result. Yeah. I'm really, really excited. But should we talk about the Mac?

We should. By the way, there's so much that we're not going to cover all today. We're just going to try and hit a lot of big things. I want to talk about the mac app store yeah so we have we have um mojave right and you've got your dark mode dark mode's really cool um all that stuff yes mojave mojave mojave which um of course now we're going to have to spend a uh as we did with yosemite a uh a year where people mojave. Call it Mojave. Mojavey. But it's Mojavey. And there's some stuff there.

There's little features or whatever. There's little features. Here's some new finder stuff. Yeah, dark mode is good. That was however many years ago, four years ago when they did the dark menu bar. I like the look of it though. I think that there's refinement needed. It just looked inverted is what look to me they um they did a another thing which is a sherlocking which is

for years now people have been making these motion uh backdrop things where over time like it's based on nature photos for the whole day and it changes your background and that's built in which i think is intriguing because that means that presumably somebody will figure out where that's coming from and will be able to like build new ones so maybe other people will build in like cool rotating things around there but yeah the dark mode i think is good because it means that app developers like every well not every app many writing apps that i use themes, but you have to turn them all on and off on their own. And that's the nice thing about this dark mode is that you could say, when I'm in dark mode, I want white text on a black background. And when I'm in not dark mode,

I want black text on a white background. And that's, and then I just flip a switch or do a keyboard shortcut and it just changes. It's like, yes, thank you. That is exactly what I want. So nothing earth-shattering there, but a bunch of little stuff that I think is encouraging. A bunch of Finder, before we get to the App Store, a bunch of Finder changes. And by the way, when I was at Macworld, we always had this debate about whether it would be referred to as the Finder or as just Finder. And I like that they put up a slide that said Finder. And then Craig said, let's talk about the Finder.

No answer. Because that is how, well, no, that's the answer. The name of it is Finder, but it is always the Finder. Because it's not like iPad and the iPad. No, no, no, no. iPad and iPad. No, it's the Finder. Because it's not like iPad and the iPad. No, no, no, no. They just call it iPad and iPad. No, it's the Finder. It's the Finder because it finds things.

So in there, they did a whole bunch of, they did a new view and they did a whole bunch of quick look improvements. And this is where Automator came into mention, which was kind of fascinating, that one of the things you can do is, it's basically, I think, services, which has been there forever and it's another another uh

expansion of where that is where you know you can and i use those all the time actually um where you can set off an automated action um on something that's in the finder and they've kind of like extended that to their you know rotating photos from within Quick Look and things like that, which are natural. Or dragging things out. The desktop changes with desktop stacks is an example of a designer realizing that the way that they intend people to use their computer is not how they use their computer and that is a that is a very adult way of approaching a problem which is you know what okay the users aren't going to do it the way i think they should so let me give them a good looking way how do i yeah how do i make it better with the fact that everybody's going to throw

their crap on their desktop and so they've tried to do that and as a veteran desktop crap thrower i am interested to see whether that is a feature i like or hate mac app store mac app store so it got the stuff that we i guess would have expected it got a redesign it's going to have stories it's going to yeah they're going to they're going to have some content on it like they do on the ios app store there's three tabs work play and develop which i thought were kind of cool so that they're like three little category tabs that are in the side bar and acknowledging that a big part of their professional audience on the mac is the developer audience which i think is really interesting it's very important to acknowledge that um but then they started talking about some developers that were returning or debuting on the App Store.

Office 365, Adobe Lightroom, Transmit from Panic, and BBEdit from Barebones. Yeah. Now, you put that up on the slides and it's great and amazing that they were mentioned. But the notable thing is B BB Edit and Transmit left. That's right. The subtext there for why they mentioned those apps is that they both were high-profile abandonments of the Mac App Store.

As we are recording this, the State of the Union is starting pretty soon, right? If not already. No, it's in like, yeah, about 45 minutes from now they're going to start the State of the Union. I can only assume that during the State of the Union, they're going to give some kind of explanation as to how those apps can return. Because those apps left, I believe both of them because of sandboxing rules. I think so. And so how can these apps come back? So the big question, and this was my question going in is if apple wants to redo the

mac app store putting new app store editorial content is not enough no because there's not enough apps to write that's right because because of the restrictions and what's funny is that in all of phil schiller's time being back in charge of the stores, the Mac App Store hasn't changed very much. So the message seems to be with Transmit and BBEdit going back to the Mac App Store that Apple is changing somehow the terms of getting your app on the Mac App Store. I'm unclear on what that means. It is smart of them

because that has been the problem with the Mac App Store. There are lots of apps that are very useful and they have to create a broken version to get it inside sandboxing because of the way that the security model worked it just didn't work right with a lot of what they do and of course apple's own apps often would never be allowed in the mac app store if we also don't them. We also don't know the details for these. We don't know what these apps are going to look like in the Mac App Store. We literally know nothing about this other than the fact that this is suspicious to me that they have made changes to the rules. Now, one thing that they did mention is that they've changed a lot of the default security

and privacy settings where, like on iOS, you're going to have to ask permission before you get access to very specific kinds of information, including the camera and the microphone and a bunch of other stuff. And I had somebody suggest to me that maybe part of that is that now that there are kind of these broad rules and there's the ability to ask permission, that maybe that opens things up for more Mac apps because now there's the ability to ask permission that maybe that opens things up for more Mac apps because now they have the ability to ask permission and maybe that works better. By the way, extending the microphone protections means that every single app that podcasters use is going to have to have a, I'm going to use your microphone. Is that okay

on it the first time you launch it? So be it. Let's hope that all the apps that we use, that all actually get updated to support that. That would be nice. So whether it's that or whether it's something else, or whether, I have to be fair, whether it's non-technical, whether it's a change in the terms,

a change in the revenue percentage, something that got Transmit and Bare Bones and Microsoft and Adobe. Right, Microsoft and Adobe, I can see it's a little bit different of a thing, but the two high-profile, long-time Mac apps that went off the store, obviously Rich Siegel and Cable Sasser are probably already explaining themselves outside right now.

These conversations are occurring because they're being mobbed. So we'll talk about it next week. But I'm intrigued by that because that suggests to me that Apple realizes, and they're not dumb, Apple realizes that you can put really nice content promoting the apps that are in the App Store up five days a week on the Mac app store like you do on iOS and it doesn't matter if there are no apps in the store because it's a two-tiered problem it's like yes you're not promoting them maybe as well as you could but your rules preclude great apps from being in the store that exist on the platform the platform i'm really intrigued to see how this ends up going in the long run like is this gonna bring sketch back to the mac app store like what is this gonna be because i think apple have done this now they put these you know really all they needed to do for the majority of people there was

to show office in adobe Adobe. They have taken great steps to show to indie Mac developers who make very specific applications that nobody I don't think that is watching this is sitting there going like, well, I'm just not going to get Transmit because it's not in the App Store. I'm just not going to get it. I need it, but I'm not going to get it.

That isn't a situation that's occurring. They're making a statement, and I wonder what this statement means, how it's going to play out. If they make these changes, let's assume, because what we can do right now is assume, that let's say that it's a mix of both technical and some kind of businessy change, which has meant that these developers will want to come back or join in the first place. Does that make Apple look strong, or does that make Apple look not strong? Because they made a decision about the

way the mac app store was going to be and that decision was based upon what they felt was the right thing to do and they've now changed potentially changed that decision and what does that look like i think it makes apple i don't think it makes apple look strong or not strong it it because the end result is positive for apple the end result is that maybe they get those realistic they get those things on the platform yeah that's right um that that that's really what it is about is making the platform stronger um the reality is that the last announcement of the day is the thing that's going to make the mac app store more viable yes do you want to talk about anything else with the mac app store before we get into the sneak peek no all right so let me

take our final break and we'll talk about the uh the sneak peek today's show is also brought to you by ero with ero you'll never need to worry that your wi-fi isn't fast enough to stream movies and we'll talk about the sneak peek. Today's show is also brought to you by Eero. With Eero, you'll never need to worry that your Wi-Fi isn't fast enough to stream movies or download files, because they've created the Wi-Fi setup of dreams, a fast, reliable connection that you can get throughout your entire house. The second-gen Eero includes a third 5GHz radio, making it twice as fast as before.

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everything you'll need to get started and you don't have to wait weeks to get a hold of your new dream Wi-Fi setup. Listeners, this show can get free overnight shipping in the US or Canada when you head to Eero.com, E-E-R-O.com and use the promo code upgrade. I've used Eero devices many times and I am always surprised at just how fast and reliable they are throughout in times it really is a great system once again that is aero.com eero.com with the promo code upgrade for free overnight shipping we thank aero for their continued support of this show and relay fm before we go on i want to i want to mention my favorite um favorite easter egg of the entire keynote, which is that one of the labels in the finder on the Mojave demo was titled It's Road Trip, which, okay.

At the iPad Air 2 keynote in October of 2014, they did a demo of an app that like built a whole fancy video for you. And there was a typo on stage. Oh, I remember that. Which was, instead of Utah Road Trip, it was It's Road Trip. Which is this weird, like, It's Road Trip, everybody. Because what's amazing is, if you watch that video now, they changed it. They changed it.

Like, they used video from a rehearsal, or they obsc obscured it and they replaced it with the right thing anyway but it's road trip was like it was a little joke we made four years ago about like oh it's road trip they you know it just said we'd hey everybody it's road trip well today in the finder that one of the tags was literally it's road trip that's very good did anyone notice it i don't know but it made me giggle in the seat that's excellent i really like that it's road trip that's very good did anyone notice me i don't know but it made me giggle in the seat that's excellent i really like that it's road trip it's oh i remember good times good times at the end of the the mac os demo craig takes the stage and he's like people ask me the question all the time are we merging ios and mac os and he says no of course not why would we do that that's

crazy we love the mac we love the mac they love the mac a lot today everybody loves the mac tim loved a mac everyone was loving the bag um but what they did announce was a sneak peek a sneak peek of bringing ui kit to the mac yeah and this is another example of um kind of agenda setting where at the beginning multi-year project yeah at the beginning they said no you know it's all about software and at the end very impressively they said okay let's talk about ios mac os that's some real some real talk they craig turned the chair around sat on it backward you know put on his hat tied it backwards everything going back everything's turned backward he's like let's let's do some straight talk um they here's the thing they knew

this is this is the impact of people like um steve trotten smith and guillaume rambo who take apart all the pieces of software that apple releases to get evidence of what the heck apple is doing like they knew that when they shipped the beta and people saw stocks news voice recorder and the home app that apple was building them using new technology that was allowing them to bring their ios apps to the Mac. And Apple also is at the point where they know that everybody's talking about this and there have been rumors about this for months, but they don't have anything for developers right now. So what do you do?

And I would argue the old Apple would just pretend it wasn't happening and never admit to it. But instead they said, here's what's going on yep it's commitment to the mac we think the mac is great and and he he gave some specifics which i liked um the specifics of mac hardware he said are why the mac exists ergonomic input devices um or the ergonomics around the the machines and the input devices the flexibility of the displays they're like i'm gonna go back and write down exactly what he said because i think i kind of missed some of this because that's the most information we've gotten of like what makes the

mac the mac i think that was interesting but that all said we do want want to bring iOS and the app ecosystem from iOS to the Mac. And so they're going to take key frameworks from UIKit and put it on the Mac, especially involving. And again, there was a whole list, trackpad and mouse input, window resizing, scroll bars, copy and paste. And then they said, we're dogfooding it right phase one is we are we are going to use it ourselves for apps that are going to ship with mojave use it it turns out it's great you know turns out it didn't work sorry everybody back to the drawing board it's not something he was ever going to say but he said it was great we were able to do it you guys will get to do this next year but in the meantime enjoy these these apps that we took from iOS and put on the Mac.

I have a couple of specifics about what this stuff will do. He said taking your iPad apps and making them work with some key conventions of the Mac. So resizing to have them be able to have the window controls, pointing devices. These are the things that this is enabling. So that's kind of how it's going to be. Yeah, stuff that doesn't exist on iOS that needs to exist or doesn't exist like it exists on the Mac. So here's my thing, multi-year project.

Is that just one way? I don't know. Right, because that's my feeling is like well let's go both ways once you've got ios apps that are capable of doing windowing could you have on large screen ios devices could you have or a trackpad sure right so i think that this was really smart because if they wouldn't have done this today we would have spent a significant amount of time on this show talking about the fact that there was no discussion of this. And more to the point, hours over the next year talking about whether Apple was doing this.

So we go from, all they did is spend 10 minutes doing something that's not really going to affect anything. The most it's going to affect is people might not redesign their Mac apps. That is going to be a-okay. Like, everyone's going to be fine with that, right? Because what happens now is we spend the next year talking positively about what 2019 is going to bring. Imagining all of the possibilities of iOS apps on the Mac.

What are they going to look like? iOS developers get to look at their applications now and be like, hmm, let me think. How would I want this to look and spend time thinking positively about this rather than for the, like, in three weeks' time, we come back to this conversation of, why didn't they do that? And I think it shows you one of the things that Apple kind of abdicated when it went super secret about literally everything. Apple still got a lot of secrecy, right? But there's smart secrecy and then there's like dumb secrecy. Apple gets to set the agenda for discussions of its platforms and what developers are planning and talking about,

you can set the agenda. And one of the ways you set the agenda is say, this is where we're going. And if you're so committed to secrecy that you can't say where you're going, you can't set the agenda. And by doing this, they did. They said, here's where we're going. 2019, you're going to get it. You're not going to get it before then. And 2019 developers will get access to this. It also opens the door, by the way, for Apple to roll some version of this out before WWDC next year, even, and say, here's some tools for developers to start working on this

in a late version of Mojave or something like that. Or most likely it's next year's macOS release, but not necessarily. And now everybody knows it. Everybody is aware of it. And we can all move on and apple has set what the conversation is going to be about by disclosing that so you know good right move the right move i think i'm really excited about it i'm really

pleased that they've done it it is as we've said in all our discussions about all of these related topics it's a big deal because apple has this incredibly engaged world of iOS developers, and they all use Macs to develop their software. Yet they can't really make Mac software because – not easily – because it's so foreign. It's a completely different UI kit, app kit. Like, they're very different. You can, and some people are more comfortable with it than others. But this is sort of saying, you've already got an iOS app. It's great.

How can we let you take that to the Mac without it being too much work? I'm so excited about this. This is going to be so good. And it will lead, I think, when you talk about the blowback on iOS, I have a hard time believing that it'll be up to Apple to decide if they're going to let you have Windows and pointing devices on large screen iOS devices. But keyboard shortcuts is a good example where it will probably lead to iOS apps having way better keyboard shortcuts. There are just some really cool practicalities that are going to come out of this that will help the iPad.

I 100% believe that Apple are incredibly aware of this. And part of this process is to push the iPad forward as much as they're pushing the Mac forward. Like I genuinely believe this because most of the apps will be iPad size. Yes, that is something

that came up a few times where they talked about, well, we, in fact, Mike, we have proof of this, which is those apps that they talked about a bunch of them were like stocks first time on the ipad voice recorder first time on the ipad why is that well because they rewrote them and made those changes to make them work on the mac and they're also on the ipad now Apple themselves believe that an application that they put on the Mac can be as powerful as the application they put on the iPad.

Right? That is, I think... Bold statement. That's a bold statement. And I hope that... I genuinely see this as being one of the first real things that stops this war between the iPad and the Mac, and the iPad's going to kill the Mac, all that kind of stuff,

because now they can move together. They can move together, and then it's a matter of what you want to use. You want to use this device that has this hardware, this device that has this hardware, but they're all going to be capable. I would also say that once iOS apps are being brought to the Mac

with support for pointing devices and things like that they also have support for touch right they most certainly they also have support for touch and then i keep going off on little roads like you're saying like well then doesn't it make an arm transition a little bit easier in the future yes and yep you know exactly right all of this touchscreen max are easier year arm is easier next five to ten years and it's starting now with news stocks yeah home and voice voice voice memos yeah you talk about watch os sure i want to say super quick if i'm a little horse today uh it's because it was the watch os segment So I can't get into this too much right now

because I'm a little bit too emotional about it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you see, now it's just because you love the Apple Watch so much and you are so excited by the features that they announced. So podcasts were debuted for the Apple Watch today and they used Connected as the onstage. All promo art onstage was was connected they had like a little siri text play the connected podcast yeah i was screaming and then kind of crying

i had a i had a real moment today it was incredible and um i'm very excited to share with steven and federico that moment on Wednesday. So yeah, that was, I achieved today a life goal that I've had that I never thought would have been possible, which is that you got in the keynote to be forever like immortalized in that like, I can't believe it.

And, and I'm absolutely blown away. I had no idea this was going to happen. It was an incredible feeling, but that's all I'm going to say on it for now let's talk about so it was broken down into kind of two prongs health and fitness and being connected it's kind of funny i thought that was pretty funny yeah um health and fitness stuff looks really cool so adding challenges in i think is really smart so me and you could set a seven-day challenge. Right. Who can do the least? I don't think that that's what they're going for,

but yes, it's probably what would happen. We could. Low score. Who got the low score? Mike, I need to go get to the refrigerator,

but I can't because it would give me a move. I'm going to take my watch off. Yeah. I'm trying to leave it here because I don't want to move. On the last episode in our Bring Out Our Dead,

I said yoga tracking. We had a bunch of people send us tweets and say, oh, they already do yoga tracking. And then, you know, Serenity Caldwell said, ah, but it doesn't do it right. It's a generic. All it's doing is saying I started a workout. I ended a workout. It's not actually tracking yoga in the same way that like Craig H ockenberry was swimming with like a series two yeah but it wasn't it wasn't measuring starting a workout and going on a workout so now there's a real yoga workout type and a real i wasn't expecting this hiking workout type which is

a thing that i do all the time because i live next to a mountain and i will take our dog and we will take our dog and we will hike up the side of the mountain. And I do that as a walk, which always seems really dumb because it's like, hey, you're walking. Why is your heart rate at 160? Because I'm walking up the side of a mountain. It's like you're walking slowly. Yeah, you're very slow now. Why is your heart rate so much? So there's a hiking workout type that was pretty cool too.

And they're tuning the running stuff. And automatic workout detection starting and stopping. Automatic workout detection and an alert when this happens to me all the time. When I get home and the last thing I am going to remember to do is swipe and tap and turn off my workout. And then I'm wandering around the house with my Apple Watch draining its apple watch draining its battery because it's got the uh the heart rate monitor on all the time they're like no it's gonna it'll tap you and be like it looks like you're done yeah i like that and then they had like the other side of it was the being connected part and they added they said oh you know there's all these great ways to talk and we've added a new one i was like oh no not

again right like i'm taking back the digital touch right yeah that's right but they added one that i think makes a lot of sense of walkie talkie mode which how fun was this not i i think this was something that was uh so it must have been i think this was rumored that that this was ready to go like a couple years ago and then they just never it may have been like a hardware thing you know like the quality of the microphones and the speakers and stuff and is it useful without cellular as much you know like all these things i think it's really cool like so again me and you we i would say do you want to be a walkie talkie buddy and you'd say yeah and then i could send you messages you could send it back to me i think that's cute i think it's nice it'll work for some

people and not work for others and you just if it if you don't like that kind of thing you just turn it off and i think it's a fun little feature and it makes a lot of sense uh siri watch face got all of the improvements i wanted yep third party apps it got more stuff of their own yeah support for siri shortcuts you can launch a siri shortcut straight from the siri watch face and because it will recommend what it thinks you need at that time well of course they get because there's workflow for watchOS. So why not? And then the third-party app support, which is fantastic. Right.

And seems very much, like again, built on this idea of apps providing, here's a thing I can do. Here's a thing I know. Like, that's good. So they showed this and they showed more interactive notifications. You can do more notifications.

And I thought to myself, oh oh that's the os now going into the future my belief is that the siri watch face and more interactive notifications is kind of what watch os is going to be and like straight up apps will be much less so that could be much less important much much less important because you can get access to the pieces that you need because as if they're showing you what you need at that time yeah you know siri's going to be becoming more and more functional and it's kind of this is just pushing towards new ui they're really and i gotta hand it to apple every year they are like tearing huge parts of watch os down and starting again with them like they are not like ashamed or like uh trying to hide with this they keep trying new things to find the things that work and i think i applaud them for that now here's one i don't understand the removal of the ahoy telephone

yeah well i think the idea there is that if you're raising your wrist to talk to it you you don't necessarily it's listening but like what is a raising of a wrist yeah that's the issue right like if i do put my arm on the table and I say, oh, hey, Jason, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like is Siri going to start just like making some commands? We'll have to see. They must feel very confident in this one. They must have recognized that there's a certain gesture that you use when you're triggering that catchphrase by picking it up and talking right at it. I'm really keen to see what this one looks like because I'm very skeptical of like how how that will not misfire all the time yeah it's hard to believe that they would announce

that feature if they haven't already tested it and figured out that they just don't need the trigger phrase anymore i mean obviously that is why they've done it right but like i'm just really keen to see how it ends up looking because that one seems like it just seems dubious to me that you would get that to work the way you would always want it to. Right, because instead of going, ahoy, timepiece, begin an outdoor walk, you would literally just raise your wrist and say, begin outdoor walk. And it's like, yep, I know what it is. Set a timer for five minutes. That is awesome. If it works.

Because I kind of hate having to do that all the time. Yeah. You know? Like, hey, tube. Hey, little stubby guy. Like, do the thing like you know i just you know i i i find it mostly frustrating really yeah so i'm excited about that if that does work but i'm also very dubious of it web content is cool so somebody sends you a link

you can kind of get a little preview of it that's going to reader mode that that was one of those things where they're like no no no web on the ip on the apple watch no nobody ever wants to do it and then somebody sends you an attachment or i don't want a web browser you're right i don't but if you sent if you text me all his and they use the menu right this is where we're going to go for dinner tonight what do you think and i'm out and it just is sorry i'm unable to show it to you one of the things i found frustrating about the lte watch is that it just never delivered on the promise of you don't need your phone anymore. You know, like this idea. I mean, yes, you can go out and do it.

But like for very specific use cases, you know, like I think the dream with this LTE watch is like ultimately you're good. You just don't need you you know and and so having stuff like this is just another kind of another way that they're chipping away at the basics of what a smart device needs to have um and then again podcasts and background audio they're adding so that's going to be really good for for third-party apps marcus so excited about the native native podcast play support on the watch which should have been there ages ago, but is there now. And support for background audio for other apps. So it's like the good news and bad news for somebody like Marco Arment is the bad news is there's a podcast app on the device now.

The good news is he can also write his podcast app on the device now and play things in the background. I'm assuming by streaming like i'm not 100 sure what that actually means or he can sideload but it means that he can keep his his audio going which he currently isn't allowed to do basically so we'll see you know he he they'll be recording a podcast later i'm sure he's digging into the details of this already because there was a funny tweet that he sent um right before the event which was like looking forward to seeing how i spend my summer and put off a list of things that it might be.

And one of them is this. So maybe it'll be this. So I think, I mean, Apple TV, new screensavers. It remains a product in their lineup. I'm sure you love the space screensaver, the Earth screensaver. Yeah, they're pretty. From the International Space Station.

It's funny that that is a feature, is those aerial screensavers. But people really like those. And to be able to see the names of the places. Yeah, I know. Thank, like, all the time. Is that Dubai again? I think that's Dubai. I'm trying to work it out.

And, like, you can cycle through them, and there's new ones. Honestly, that's what I wanted. People actually love those. It's silly, but they do. When I saw that, you know, like, this is a criticism that people have made of Google I.O. Keynotes of, like, Google gives time to everyone. Apple did that for the tvOS team today.

They kind of just gave them time in the keynote because every other platform got time. How do you not talk about the Apple TV? You've got to give them something. Because, like, probably two-thirds, you've got Dolby Atmos 2 and something called Zero Sign on that. I don't understand because this just isn't a thing for me. But so much of the stuff that the presenter was talking about was stuff that we already knew about. Yeah.

I spoke about Canal Plus, which I don't know if it's Plus or not Plus. Whatever. I'm not French. But we knew all of this stuff. I felt really proud at that moment. It's like upgrade listeners already know about the deal that they made with Canal Plus. And then we're like, oh oh and this is what the tv app does like no new features just like zero zero sign-on is interesting um i have that in my web

browser for my cable company where basically if i if i go to my web browser for my cable company while i'm on my home network and i say show me TV it knows who I am um and so that's what that zero sign-on thing is is basically if I'm on Comcast if they use Comcast as a partner um I'm at home I'm on my home cable network I shouldn't even need to log in it should know who I am and what I am paying for and that's what this should let you do theoretically because it is dumb like i think about that every time i log into something that is from my cable company to verify your cable id it's like i'm literally at home on the cable modem you should know who i am and so that's what that is so So yeah, but yeah, it's a, it was important to have it there

because it's one of their platforms, but they didn't have anything really to speak of this year. So keynote's done, but there's a whole week of sessions and there's going to be so much more information coming out. Like I can't wait to start looking at Apple's website

and finding all those little details that I know are just like little treasure chests for me waiting in there and talking to developers this week 100 guarantee that there's something that we said oh i wonder about this that has people already know it yeah there's so many things because you just can't track it all um and we're going to be touching on some of these things on wednesday so we're doing a live episode of connected jason's going to be a part of that with serenity caldwell so i think steven's going to be talking to you about this exact thing, right?

We're a couple of days removed. What do we know now that we didn't know Monday? Exactly. So look out for that on Wednesday in the Connected feed. You've heard about Connected, right? As seen on the keynote? As seen on the keynote-featured Connected podcast. Yes.

I want to thank our sponsors for their support today, Aero, Timing, and Away. They help make this show possible. Thank you to you for listening. If you are in WWDC, you see me and Jason around, give us some high fives. We'd love to say hi. If not, you can tweet us a high five emoji if you want.

We'll appreciate that. You can find Jason in and around San Jose for the next couple of days but over at sixcarlos.com I'm sure you've got a heck of a lot to write and say

I haven't even thought that far ahead because you know upgrade comes first but yes there'll be something and Jason is at Jason L on Twitter

J-S-N-E-L-L I am at I'm Mike I-M-Y-K-E and I am the WWDC draft champion two years in a row yeah look at that

draft champion so still years in a row. Yeah, look at that. Draft champion. So, it's still all to play for. September. That's right. It's all to play for. It's all to play for. Assuming there's one event,

which I think we can just assume for now, all to play for. Yeah, the tiebreaker. I'm very excited about that now. All to play for. We love doing this episode. It's one of my favorite episodes of the year. I really hope that you've enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for tuning in and giving us your time during what is an incredibly busy week, especially to the hundreds of people in the chat room, which I thank you so much for hanging out with us. I think this is the largest chat room, live listening audience we've ever had on the show. So I know people are excited about this.

So thank you to all of you tuning in. We'll be back next week and we'll have so much to talk about. So much. So much. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley. From San Jose.