Upgrade - 216: The 2018 October Event Draft - LIVE in Chicago

Episode Date: October 23, 2018

It's time for your Upgrade hosts to go for glory and risk the agony of defeat--all in view of a studio audience in Chicago, Illinois. Jason and Myke pick what they think will happen at Apple's October 30 event in New York City. And they're joined by guest draft experts Alex Cox and Stephen Hackett, who provide instant analysis of all the picks--and harsh judgment of our hosts. In one week, we'll know who was horrendously wrong and who reigns supreme as draft champion!

From RelayFM, this is Upgrade, episode 216. Today's show is brought to you by Pingdom and timing and instabug we are live in chicago my name is mike hurley and i am joined by mr jason snell hello mike hurley hello chicago so how you doing jason pretty good this is our first live i mean they're all live but i mean we don is our first live. I mean, they're all live. But I mean, we don't read it, do a script or something. They're all live, but usually it's just you and me. It is. Maybe like a cat.

Nobody cares about that, Jason Snell, because we're going to go into hashtag Snell Talk, and our Snell Talk question comes from Steve this week, and Steve wants to know, when you two haven't seen each other for a while, and you come together to do some kind of live show, or you're just hanging out. Do you greet with a hearty handshake or a friendly hug?

That's an interesting question. Thank you. Listener Steve. Um, I would say we are, I'm, I'm from California and so I think hearty hug is the way to go. Yeah.

And I am a hugger. All my friends know this. Mike is a hugger. Yes. Um, you learn that very soon. Yeah. Hearty hug sounds like a Naboo to release. Yeah, and I am a hugger. All my friends know this. Mike is a hugger. Yes, you learn that very soon. Hardy Hug sounds like a Naboo 2 release. Well, I don't know.

Because Stephen Hackett can't keep his jokes to himself, welcome Stephen Hackett to the Upgrade program. Hi. So we are doing a draft today. It is our first draft in front of a live audience, and we're doing something slightly different. It is our first draft in front of a live audience. And we're doing something slightly different.

So we have Stephen Hackett of many shows here on RelayFM. But we also have with us Alex Cox of Dubai Friday. Welcome to Upgrade, Alex. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, welcome back. This is not your first time on the show. Wait, really? Yeah, we did a draft before in the first ever Summer of Fun.

Summer of Fun! Yes, I definitely remember it, and very fondly. Yeah, I can tell. That's great. Because we are going to be doing our draft today, but because we're doing a live episode, we thought we'd do something slightly different. I am of the understanding that drafts are a sports thing.

That's what Jason tells me. And there are sportscasters, draft analysts. Yes, they're draft analyst experts. Sure. Who, every time anything is drafted outside of this realm, but in the realm of sports, there's always somebody or a series of somebodies who are there after somebody has made a pick

to say, that was a terrible pick. So Alex and Stephen will be saying that all of my picks are terrible as we go on throughout the entire draft today. We're going to be throwing to them every couple of rounds and asking them for their analysis of how me and Jason are performing in the draft. Can I judge this intro? No.

You ruined it. So unless that's your judging. I do want to say before we move on, we do have a new upgrade draft theme music which the audience have not heard yet, but you, dear listening

audience, have heard. So we want to thank Chris Breen for his amazing work on the draft theme. That's Chris Breen and the Chris Breen marching band, I believe. It was a Yes, Chris Breen and the Chris Breen Marching Band, I believe. It was a very expensive production, but we're very excited about it. So we are doing a draft today because there is going to be, as prophesied, an ample event next week. Yes.

In Brooklyn, of all places. As was not prophesied. No. How do you feel about going to Brooklyn for an event? Well, let me tell you, I can drive to Cupertino in about an hour and a half. How long does it take to drive to Brooklyn? Are you driving? Should you get on your way

now? I'm just going to leave from here. I'm most of the way there now. So the artwork, well, I should say the invitations went out, featuring lots of wonderful illustrations. I think there were, I've seen this counted up a few times. 370 at least different Apple logos created for the media. You got a pretty good looking one.

Very classy, your invite, Jason. Has nobody thought about the irony that the guy who does six colors got a completely black and white sketch? I hadn't thought about that until now. Trolling you big time. Yeah, I don't know what they're doing there. Yeah, they're beautiful. That was a very clever idea. I wonder how it might lead into what they do

because they've been connecting a lot of their art direction for their intros or their invitations and all the things they send to people like me where it's like, please RSVP. Those like the Chicago event that happened right here uh in this spring the intro stuff the package that everybody got was tied to the art that was up at the event to the slides to the promo video that they did at the beginning it was all kind of up a kind so it'll be interesting to see if there's more to the story about these hundreds of Apple logos that were drawn with something.

I mean, at the very least, it's art. It's a mystery. It's art. Exactly. Creativity and creation. And it's at a music school or something, right? Where is it? The Brooklyn something for the something?

Brooklyn Academy of Music. And it's an opera hall on the campus at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Wow. Tim's going to break out in song. But we are doing a draft today, which means that there are rules. And I would like to go through, as always, the draft rules. We're going to be doing eight rounds today. 16 overall picks.

There's eight picks each. The winner of the previous draft gets first pick. Who could that be? It's usually me, and it's me this time. For an item to count as being able to have points awarded in the draft, it must either clearly be announced on stage or be presented clearly on a slide during the presentation. We choose from a list of items that we've generated together.

Today, again, for the first time, we generated that list while sitting together at a breakfast bar. Nothing that is blatantly obvious within reason is on our list because every pick should have at least some risk to it. Completely ridiculous things are on the list. Jason always puts those in. Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case of a scoring stalemate between Jason and Mike, are on the list. Jason always puts those in. Stephen Hackett will adjudicate in case of a scoring stalemate

between Jason and Mike, but if Stephen can't decide, Alex will decide. If Alex can't decide, I'll flip a challenge coin. But ideally, Mike and I have generally played fair, played by the gentleman's rules. And we can agree. It's usually fairly clear when I win.

I'm just taking notes for later. No half points are awarded. There are no points for any pre-announced items that may occur between now and the draft. And the points will be awarded on next week's episode, and they are final. There will be a PDF scorecard in the show notes for you to follow along.

And there will be also a link to Zach Knox's interactive scorecard as well once that's live. I believe as of right now, Zach is doing that. So thank you, Zach, for updating that for us. I want to get some statistics. There's only ever been one other October event draft. Jason won that one. The 2018 results so far, March and September, Jason won those. I won WWDC.

So either Jason obliterates me or I can hopefully take this year to a tie. And I expect all of Chicago is on my side with this one. Everybody loves ties, Mike, especially in America. That's our favorite thing is when a competition ends in a tie. Everyone loves a braggart too, Jason. We have discussed the potential of if we do come to a tie, there will be some kind of tie break at the end of the year, maybe in our holiday special, but we haven't

decided that yet. I mean, unless we will, we probably won't need it. Because Jason's probably going to win. You're setting me up now. I don't like this. I think you started that a long time ago. So we should get started with the draft picks, but before we do,

let's go to our first break for this episode and thank our fans, Pingdomdom for their support of this show. Pingdom are the company who make website performance monitoring super easy. Everybody loves a fast website, and Pingdom are helping to keep your favorite sites online. Companies like Netflix and Amazon and Spotify. These are just some... Really, FM? We use Pingdom?

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And when you sign up, use the code UPGRADE at checkout and you'll get a huge 30% off your first invoice. Our thanks to Pingdom for their support of this show and RelayFM. Stephen, is the website still up?

It is. Okay, good. I have not received... I get my Pingdom alerts from a hot air balloon. It's really... I like the grandiose nature of it. No hot air balloon yet. Yeah.

It's IFTTT powered. Mike's not going to leave that joke in the show. I think it's more accurate to say Mike's not going to spend the time to edit that joke out. Yeah, I won't waste my time on that. All right, so first draft pick, Jason Snell. Okay, so I want to explain something that Mike mentioned about the rules. Mike mentioned in the rules that we agree upon a list of items to pick from. And one of our rules is

don't pick something totally obvious. And so that's the negotiation is what is obvious and what is not. So I said to Mike today, earlier today, Mike,

is the presence of new iPads at the event so obvious that it shouldn't be a choice? And Mike said, yes, that is too obvious. Too obvious. And I said, Mike, That was a dramatic reenactment.

If the... Yes. And we were sitting just like... Actually, just... You're my right. Okay. I said, it's too obvious, Jason, and then we carried on. And then we exchanged a hearty handshake. So... As we do. As you do when you're making rules in a draft.

There's no hugging in draw no the very next thing i said so mike uh what about ipads getting face id is that too obvious and you said no jason oh yes jason no jason wait i said it's okay is what i said yeah and and so therefore i'm going to pick that new they're going to be new iPads with Face ID. Because I think it's kind of obvious, and I really hope it's kind of obvious, because if there's no home button and no Face ID, what is going on? You have to just – we're just all on to PIN codes again. The thing is we think it's obvious based upon rumor reporting right it isn't necessarily obvious that this is going to exist because there are as we have spoken about many times over the

last few weeks there are lots of technical hurdles to getting an ipad in all of the ways that we currently understand the Face ID system, to work with Face ID. Because do you have four cameras? Do you have 12 cameras? Do you have one camera right in the middle? Oh, it's not a notch. It's just like a... It's a hole. It's a center of the monitor.

And all the content flows around. You can pick that if you want. I'm not going to pick that. But so I think that it is a perfectly valid pick. So valid that it was going to be my first shot. We call it the super retina hole. It's a black hole with an OLED screen. It's just, anyway.

So I think that's a perfectly fine pick. I think you picked very well. And there is some degree of what we do here in this draft is, because there are always rumors, there are always rumors, it is how likely do we think that rumor is? Do you take a chance on it or not? And that one I feel like is pretty strong. But you're right, it's not 100%.

Or like of the rumors that are available, which seem like the most likely to happen, right? Right. And so my one, my first pick, I expect there's going to be a new apple pencil um i feel like everything that adobe c like senior po chief product officer right everything that they that that what's his name scott belsky something like that anyway we just refer to him as that adobe ad the adobe guy who said too much

on the verge cast uh seemed to indicate that there would be more about the apple pencil i think that the fact that these invitations were also art focused the fact that photoshop is coming i think it all lends to believe that the apple pencil is going to become a more important product the fact that the logitech crayon and has different technology for connecting. The fact that we may get to this later, there may not even be lightning ports on the next iPad Pros, seems to suggest that there might be something. My hope is that it won't just be like,

here's an Apple Pencil with a USB-C connector, like that there will be a little bit more to it. And what I would really like to see is multiple options, so you know, you can get the sleek white one or you can get one that has a rubberized grip to it, which is more comfortable, and maybe there'll be one with a button on it, or maybe the Apple Pencil will get a button on it for additional

functions. Whatever it is, whatever I might want it to be, I think that we're going to see some kind of new Apple Pencil on stage next week. I don't want this to turn into a mutual admiration society, but I think that we're going to see some kind of new Apple Pencil on stage next week. I don't want this to turn into a mutual admiration society, but that was my number two pick too. So I think that was a good – not to be the judger of how well we're picking here because I feel like we're about to be harshly judged.

Yes, but I think you did a great job. Thank you. So we're going to go into pick two. After we've gone to pick two, we will be throwing to our draft casters for their opinions and thoughts about the two picks that we've both made so far. So Jason, what is your second pick? Well, I'm going to key off of your previous pick.

And when you mentioned a guy whose name we're not sure of from Adobe. And say that I think... I'm pretty sure it's Scott Belsky. Okay. It's more fun when I have no idea who he is. The, I'm going to say... Not for him.

Maybe he likes it. I don't know. Scott, we'll call him Scott. Adobe Scott. Anyway, last week, Adobe announced Photoshop on the iPad. And they got Phil Schiller to come down to LA to the Adobe Max conference

and appear on stage and say how great it is that Adobe is bringing Photoshop to the iPad. And he even got a jacket with a pun on it. Content aware Phil. Yeah. He's aware. That's a Photoshop joke. It's a Photoshop reference. Yeah.

I guess I got a joke. joke um it's a photoshop reference as some yeah yeah i don't want to judge too much about whether it was a joke or not it's funny it's funny sure um so i'm going to say and this is one of our little showbiz picks where it's sort of like what what is happening on stage i'm going to say that in the rollout of the ipad week, they will mention or demo, not necessarily demo, but at least it will be mentioned. Photoshop running on the iPad will come up in Apple's presentation

as kind of a reciprocal agreement. They may bring out our friend Scott. Scott Belsky, I looked it up. His name is Scott Belsky. Okay. They may bring Scott out or someone else out from Adobe. They may not.

They may just say it in passing. They may do a full demo. But I feel like if you're rolling out a new iPad Pro and Adobe is bringing Photoshop to the iPad and you are perhaps introducing a new Apple Pencil, that this has to be a big part of the story. Even though the product's not going to be out until 2019, I feel like it has to be a part of the storytelling that Apple does here.

I think that this relationship is a lot more than we know. I think that Apple are working very closely with Adobe. I think that this is a very strong relationship. This is something that they both need of each other. They both need things from each other for this.

So I expect for some time to come there's going to be a lot of Adobe on stage at different points. And I think that this, either somebody comes out and does some kind of demo or it's like, you know, oh, we're so happy about our new partnership with Adobe, which means that in 2019,

when you have your new iPad and your new Apple Pencil, you'll be able to do things like these invites that we sent to everyone, which were all made in the new phone. Like, I think be able to do things like these invites that we sent to everyone which were all made in the new phone. I think there's going to be something. This seems like a... If they're going to do any app demos, this feels like a pretty good one that they would do. I think

that's a pretty strong pick from you, Jason. Thank you. It was high on my list. Now... Oh, here we go. No, no, no, no, no. I heard you take that breath, like, what am I going to do here? Well, I'm already at pick two,

and I'm not sure what I want to go with. Spinal tap is available. Is it, though? I didn't see it on the list. No, it's not. It's not on the list this time. But celebrity on stage and musical guest performs

are both on the list. You can take one of those. Celebrity on stage also, if a celebrity jumped on stage and had to be let off by security, that would count. See, because my pick here is something that if it happens is going to break my heart, which is... And we're here in front of an audience. They may boo you if it's something terrible. I didn't make it happen. It doesn't matter.

I am going to go with the new iPads will have no headphone jack. Okay. That's one person. I really don't want this to happen. Because I use over-ear headphones when I'm traveling, and I use my iPad when I'm traveling, and I use it to watch Netflix. I'm watching Making a Murderer Season 2 right now,

which is crazy. You know, just as a quick aside. No spoilers. I didn't think it was going to be that good. I was like, they did such a great job with the last one. What more could there be be there's a lot more it's really good it's a good show but I think that

Apple like to plug all the holes in all of their devices and with the introductions of AirPods I think that they're going to be able to use the excuse

that the Google guy used when talking about the Pixelbook. Like, oh, everyone uses Bluetooth headphones now because phones don't have headphone jacks, so we just took the headphone jack off our tablet, which is like the worst thing. But it will be really courageous for Apple to get rid of another headphone jack. And I think that they will include some other headphones

in the box right whether they're usbc headphones or lightning headphones and they'll just call it a day and then probably some maybe at this event or maybe another event next year it has been heavily rumored that apple's going to have some kind of over ear headphones that they're going to make based on the their w chip technology so i don't want this to happen but i think it will yeah i don't want it to happen either um i edit podcasts on my ipad and it's an ipad pro right so theoretically we're talking about professional use here and there'll be a dongle in the box i'm sure usbc or lightning to yeah it's just it's unfortunate i i've kind of gotten over it with my iphone but the thing is i don't need other than when i'm

mowing the lawn yep i can use airpods airpods are bad for mowing the lawn are not good uh on planes for a couple of reasons one they don't get very loud which is which is mostly fine but the other like so i was listening to an audiobook on the, and about every hour I'd have to take one of them out to charge it for like 30 seconds, and then put it in, and then I'd have to take the other one out, charge that, which was just,

and then you drop them. It was just terrible. So I don't want this to happen, but I feel like it's going to happen, and I think if they're ever going to do it, if they do change, we may or may not get to this, if they do change the ports that go on the iPad in general, it's like this is a perfect time to do it.

So I didn't have this in my top list of picks, but I think it's mostly because I don't want it to happen. Yeah. And so if it does happen, it's your fault. Let's throw over to our draft casters, Steven and Alex, for their thoughts on our first two picks so far. Well, Steven, what do you think?

When you're watching Mike and Jason pick, you know, all of these great and horrible ideas like plugging the holes, do you see a strategy? I knew you weren't going to let me go with that one. I knew it. I could hear you laughing.

She was very giggly. I know. That was like a straight and Alex joke right there. I feel like I just gave that one to you. Have fun editing that laugh. I always see Mike as he seems to typically pick with his heart, whereas Jason's kind of like the Brady and like the Tom, I don't know sports one of the Brady's John Brady

Tom John Brady John Brady who hits all the home runs for the Philadelphia Raiders I don't know why that's funny really it's entirely accurate it's sports it's a hockey joke don't worry about it American sports. Oh, God.

Whereas, you know, Mike's like the Rudy. Is that a real person or a fictional character? Real? Okay, cool. Then it makes sense. But I think he's kind of selling out at this point. Like, plugging the holes? Really?

I think he just wants to go for the win. Alex, I really want to win. This is our time, sir. This is my time. Sorry. I agree with you. I've listened to a lot of these. And it's nice to be able to share my thoughts, not just screaming in my car.

Exactly. Or texting Mike, why did you pick this? Which is what happened last time. I don't remember what it was about it was why did I say there would be Max and no Max you tried to play both sides it's early yet Stephen

there's time there's still time I will say that no Max and Mac not mentioned on stage like they are in our overall pick list so I can still go crazy at the end I agree with you I think think Mike's just a lover, and he leads with his heart. That's what makes him a great person, but what makes him a really bad draftsman.

This is a great idea. Jason, would you like to go with pick number three, please? Yes, I am going to pick something that I don't understand, and I don't know why it would exist, and I don't understand the rumors, and that's why it must be true, and I can't wait to find out why

Apple is doing it, which is changing the smart connector on the iPad Pro to some other weird thing in a different weird place that I don't understand. I don't know why. I don't know what they've got up their sleeve. I'm actually, seriously, this is one of these things that I'm interested. All of the renders that are, I guess, from leaks from people who want to make cases or

something like that, all of the renders of this thing have a accessory port that's in a totally different location on the back. this thing have a accessory port that's in a totally different location on the back and i can't figure out why it's where it is i don't know whether they're gonna do we have some theories about like which i'm not entirely sure aren't just wish casting by us about them like really embracing keyboards and having like a keyboard shell with a real keyboard that you can use on your lap and not just on a table and it's more laptop like. But if they're moving the smart connector off of the edge and putting it somewhere else that's not like convenient for a smart keyboard as we know it today, I'm not quite sure what

that rationale is going to be. I kind of believe because I'm picking it, I kind of believe those rumors are true. But it's a moment where I can't see the other side of it. Like, I can't wait to hear the explanation and if there's some totally wacky accessory that we've never anticipated that they're going to come out with. And I kind of like that feeling, so that's why I'm picking it. So my thinking on this is,

it's sometimes hard to remember that the smart connector is not just an Apple connector that only Apple can use. It's like a third-party connector, but nobody makes anything for it. We could probably list. We won't. We could probably list all the smart connector devices. There's one, right? So, yeah, Logitech makes like three, but nobody cares.

It's just Logitech makes like three, but they're not, nobody cares. It's just Logitech. I think for whatever reason, there's just some constraints around that connector, whether it's the amount of power that it can draw or data that it can push, which has meant that nobody's made anything for it. When there are companies that make keyboards for the iPad Pro that use Bluetooth, and they, in theory, should use the smart connector

because it's better, right? It doesn't need power, and you don't need to charge the keyboard, that kind of thing. I think clearly it's just not right. So my thinking would be that maybe they want to give it another shot, and all of the potential renders show it as like a larger connector on the back about the size of the pad of your thumb, right? It's kind of how it looks. My expectation, I mean,

if that's not fingerprint reader, which I don't think it is, but like that was the earlier rumors, maybe it can drive more power. Maybe that's why they would do it. Maybe they're going to try and really focus in on specific things that it makes sense for. Maybe it's to allow for some different kind of charging that's not wireless charging. There is stuff, but I agree with you, it's still kind of a little weird anyway because everything we know about the smart connector is how it works with the smart keyboard. And the smart keyboard wouldn't work with that, as we know it right now, with that smart connector.

No, it would have to be, if they wanted to leave it as close to what it is now as possible, they would have to create a whole, like the old smart cover, or smart case, right, that was the whole wraparound thing instead of having the two pieces. That's what they'd have to do because the rumor has that connector somewhere that is nowhere near where the smart keyboard lives. So it would almost have to be a full unit that went all the way around it,

which might be what they're up to, but it's a mystery i love it i love it you know we get these renders and they spoil all the fun in some ways right where it's like we know where all the buttons are introduces different theoretically but yes we get this sort of mystery of like what is this thing and sometimes we guess and sometimes we fail to guess. So we're on to our third picks each. Everything has been iPad related so far. It is possible that we won't just see iPads and I am going to take a step outside of iPads at this point. Here we go.

New Mac Mini. Okay, so let's just assume that there are going to be Macs at this event. Would you agree, Jason, that it's likely that we're also seeing Macs at this event as well as iPads? If I was 100%, I would have picked that last time. The fact that I didn't is because I feel like there

is a chance that we all get really excited and we go to this event and there are no Macs again. I mean, I'm most excited for the iPad. I mean, now I'm excited for the Mac Mini because I picked it in the draft. But I feel like if they're going to do something Mac related. Mike has just discovered how fantasy sports work. Just give me something to care about here.

I think that whilst obviously laptops are important and make up the majority of their market, I think Apple has shown over the last year or two that they are very aware of how fans of the Macintosh feel right now, and they've taken a lot of steps to try and show that they are in tune with that criticism. of steps to try and show that they are in tune with that criticism. If they

do an event and do not reference the Mac Mini, that will not go down well at all. It's such an old product at this point. It's one of these you either have to do something with it or the story refreshes and it's gone.

One of those two things has to happen. There has been enough rumors to suggest that there is some kind of Mac Mini in the works. I think now would be a pretty interesting time to show that off. Yeah, I hope it happens. I have a Mac Mini, a two-generation-ago Mac Mini,

so it's very old, sitting in my house, and occasionally it stops working. I have it on a smart home switch because occasionally it stops working, and literally all I have to do, it dies, and it just gets a little blinky question mark. But if I power it down and power it right back up, it boots, and it's fine again. Can I make a suggestion? Yeah. Set that up in Siri shortcuts as, hey Siri, rebuild the desktop.

Some old school Mac workflow name. Yeah, that's good. Hold down shift option, shift command PR. Siri, reset my NVRAM. So I have a smart switch. Literally anywhere in the world, if my server dies, I can just go in and go boop. And it comes back to life. That's a really 2018 solution to a 2014 problem.

Please, Apple, please get me a new Mac Mini. I will buy it. I would love that to be. I'm trying, though. Again, what gives me pause here is on stage in Brooklyn at the Opera House, and they've got a brand new iPad Pro, and it's really exciting. And I'm trying to picture Tim Cook saying, we got a lot of,

this is Tim, we got a lot of good stuff. He always introduces himself. He doesn't need to. We know who you are. Not on the keynotes. He doesn't come on stage. Imagine it.

Picture it. It'd be great. This is Tim. We got a lot of great stuff about the iPad to show you but first, I think you're going to like it. Jay said,

no way. No one is predicting this is first. Wait, wait. Okay, well, let's think about this then. Well, now you've seen all of our great stuff we've shown you. There's a new iPad Pro, a new Apple Pencil. Amazing things here today. But we do have one more thing.

Or last. I think that it could be, here is this Mac thing. Or last, I think that it could be, here is this Mac thing. By the way, we have another Mac thing and it's this little one and then they just move on. I don't think they're going to

spend a ton of time on it if they do introduce it. But I think if they have something, if they do something to the Mac Mini, it's got to be newsworthy because they've done something. In how many days, Stephen? Over 1,000?

I think we're up to like 17 years. Oh, that's good. Trust me, I'm a historian. The last Mac Mini to be released ran a Motorola 68000 processor. It's true. Jason, your fourth pick, please. All right, well, I don't want to be lost in the shuffle of Mac picks, and I want to make

steven happy so i'm going to pick a mac thing too i do think there will be a mac thing there perhaps they'll say well we're very excited about the mac mini but uh we also have a sub thousand dollar laptop that we're introducing that is new now this is a rumor that's been around a very long time in a lot of different forms we heard that that the MacBook Air was going to get updated, which is in our list. We could pick that. Always seemed like a super bizarre rumor. And we've seen some other reports that say,

no, that's not quite it. It will actually be a new model that they're engineering specifically to get back to that price point so they can finally kill the MacBook Air, which I love dearly, but is rapidly becoming like the monster in a horror movie that you think it's dead,

and then you open the door, and it's still there. And it's so ugly, like a monster in a horror movie. I love it, but it's time to say goodbye. And so I want to believe there will be a sub-thousand dollar laptop

that Apple will provide us that is not just the MacBook Air with a slightly less old processor. So let's go through this for the sake of understanding the draft. You are saying a new laptop, brand new, that costs less than $1,000.

Yes. Okay. Yes, didn't we, one of us picked this last time. Yeah, this is the funny thing is we've never really had this before. Like about 90% of the things that we picked from were just lifted straight out of the September options. Because there was no iPad. There was no Mac.

Anyway, so we're assuming that this will replace a bunch of stuff and is going to be a consumer-focused laptop then, right? Yeah, absolutely. Because the MacBook and the MacBook Escape, neither of them have managed to get down to what this $999 MacBook Air can do. And the fact that Apple still sells the MacBook Air implies that Apple really, really, really needs a computer at that price. And everything we've heard is that they still sell, to this day in 2018, people buy MacBook Airs with technology that's many years old at this point. Not as old as the Mac Mini, but still pretty old. Yeah. And the only reason they're selling it is because they don't have a product that they feel they can sell for that price

because the MacBook and the MacBook Escape are both, what, $1299? Yeah, that sounds about right. We have an audience. I expected instant fact-checking from the audience. They're at a price that is not $999. So I feel like they're going to shoot for $999 with this thing, whatever it is, engineered to be a new product. I think that's amid all the conflicting rumors, that's

the one I'm going to hang on to. Without necessarily giving stuff away for later, we'll come back to it if necessary, do you think that the MacBook Air would go away if something like this existed? Yeah, I think if there's the moment that there's a brand new computer from Apple and brand new laptop that's under $1,000, it's the end of the MacBook Air

unless they've got stock that they need to move. But probably it'll just be an ex-product at that point. It'll be gone. Yeah, it will go to education for a while probably, right? The MacBook Air will probably stick around and then it will go away and then it's gone. Alright. Going back to the iPad.

This feels risky. I believe the rumors but it still feels risky to me because there's a lot of questions my pick number 4 will be that the new iPads will have USB-C ports

this just seems weird, now it makes a lot of sense for all the reasons that we've spoken about, but it still seems weird, now the full pick that I'm spoken about, but it still seems weird. Now, the full pick that I'm making here is that it will have USB-C,

and that's the connector, that lightning goes away and is replaced by USB-C. That's the pick. I don't know how I feel about it. I think it would be great. So I bought a Pixel 3 this week and it was really nice to be able to charge that device

using the same charger that I use for my MacBook Pro, the same charger that was plugged in because Stephen was charging his MacBook Pro and the same charger that I would bring with me to charge my Nintendo Switch. This is what USB-C is for, right? Like this is what it's for.

And there are other potential benefits, other potential reasons the iPad charges very slowly over lightning. And this might be a way to help that, right? Because USB-C charges, especially the ones that Apple already sells, the ones that a lot of Apple customers

already have are more powerful. There are lots of really good reasons. There are lots of questions. There are lots of really good reasons. There are lots of questions. But I feel like if it's, again, as I said earlier with the removal of the headphone jack, like if it's ever going to happen, like a huge hardware form factor change, which we're assuming is going to occur here,

feels like a good time to bundle some of this stuff up, and it's a really good way to advance the rhetoric of how this is a computer and not just a big iPhone, right? Like it has the same charger as the laptop and not the phone anymore. Yeah, I think one of the reasons that I believe this is going to happen, when this,

the moment I heard this rumor and everybody was like, well, that seems really weird. First iOS device without lightning and with USB-C. My immediate thought was, well, it's a statement. This is Apple making a statement.

I'm not sure how practical it is, but it's Apple making a statement that goes with a lot of their statements about the iPad Pro lately, which is that think of it more like a computer. Think of it more like what you think of when you think of a laptop. It's not a laptop, but it is,

I mean, I know what's a computer. Everybody, every time I mention the word computer now, everybody says, what's a computer? What's a computer? But Apple does want to make that claim. Like, think of it as a computer. It does all the things that a computer does. What better way to just lay that down than to say it even has the same port as the computers?

The iPhone doesn't. The iPad doesn't. But the iPad Pro does because that's what it is. That Pro does because that's what it is. And I have to say, even though that's not necessarily the most practical thing for Apple to do, because you are, as we've detailed, just trading one part of Donkletown for a different part. You're just going to... It's a different subdivision. Yeah, you get your lightning adapters go away.

Now you've got USB-C adapters. Hooray! But it does enable some things. But today, Apple doing something like that to make a statement, even if it's not entirely practical, but it does enable some things. But, you know, today, Apple doing something like that to make a statement, even if it's not entirely practical, I believe they would do that. I think today's Apple is the kind of company that would make that choice to sort of push you in that direction, because it's very similar. It's not quite the same, but it feels a little similar to the USB-C thing, which is just like, we're going to drag you into the future. And so to say, you know, honestly, iPad

Pro users don't have nearly as much investment in external stuff, right? Because the iPad Pro doesn't work with that many external things. But if you do have a video adapter, and I was looking at my desk the other day, and I still have like a dock connector to video adapter thing in there. On your desk?

No, in the desk. Mine's right on top. Yeah's where I keep dust drawers. Mine's right on top. Yeah, but I wouldn't question you. Yeah, yeah. No, I had that moment where I thought I need to make a little

Ziploc bag full of things that have the dock connector on it and then hide it away somewhere far away. Shoot it out of a box. Catapult. So we go back again

to our luscious draft casters, Steven and Alex. What are your opinions on picks three and four? Judge us now. I like the Mac stuff. Of course you do.

Is that just general? Is that a general statement? Yeah, I just like Macs a lot. I think it makes sense. We've been so long where the low end of the laptop line is just really messy. I've said it on Connected,

if you have $1,300 in your pocket and you walk in an Apple store, it's kind of hard to know what to buy. I had a friend text me today with that, like I want to buy a laptop. What shall I buy? I was like, nothing. Shruggy guy. Like, please wait. Get a Surface Book. I'm just kidding.

Don't do that. You want to keep him a friend. That makes a ton of sense to me that they've got to straighten that stuff out yeah so i'm on board with that uh the pick that i think the craziest pick so far tonight maybe you agree is this smart connector business like i don't think apple changes things that they forget about and i don't think they remember there's a smart connector like what are these pins i don't know do you like what would it be for maybe somebody has like a niece at logitech and they just really need to make them happy that's so good

we are through the rabbit hole here people i mean real real-time follow-up logitech is the only other company that has made a smart connector device. They have a couple of keyboards, and they've got a really, really, really slow charging dock. It's really bad. Oh, I remember that. You own one, don't you? Well, I reviewed one and said, I don't know why this exists, and now it's taking up space in a drawer. It's next to the dock connector.

The Logitech base. That's the product i'm curious steven do you think mike has become like a self-hating ipad user because he thinks the hole's gonna be plugged but he also thinks that usbc is coming to the ipad that just doesn't make sense because it's pro it's like sure there's all these professional accessories you can use but then you can't edit and you can't listen to music? I don't understand. Well, let me share something.

The audience here knows this, but Mike is not sitting in front of an iPad. He's sitting in front of a 2017 two-port MacBook, which he told me today he loves dearly. That's not true. He's actually lying about that part. I do have a MacBook Pro in front of me. The reason is

I need lots of Chrome tabs for the draft that's the simple answer he's here to win, he's playing to win he's got lots of tabs open so yeah, so I just don't know about the smart connector I know it was in the leak so I buy it but I have not convinced myself

of a story Apple could tell so that makes me nervous that could just be literally anything. It could be a magnet. It might not be a smart connector. There might not be any smart connector on this thing, or it might have stayed. We don't really know.

And your pick is a new smart connector. So to be clear, if it is something else... It wasn't my pick. I think what I'm saying is it's either a new smart connector or it's essentially the follow on to the smart connector if it's something yeah if it attaches to a keyboard accessory or something like that

that totally counts if it fills the role that the smart connector had which is three accessories a Lodgett if it's a magnet or a humidifier or some crazy thing or a weird like charging place where you can lay the new Apple pencil or something like that. Maybe it's an AirPower

port. It's not that. No. Nothing's that because AirPower will never exist. So experts, do you have a feeling about the Mac Mini? Do you feel like Mike does that that might be a little bit of a risk?

I mean, this is the Hurley we've all grown to love. He wants it to exist. Honestly, I think he also just wants it to exist because he wants to set up a cool Plex server. So maybe that's one way. He also wants us to stop complaining about how long it's been since the last Mac Mini update. Wouldn't that be great if we'd stop for at least a month complaining about how long it's been? So I have some more real-time follow-up. We were wondering how long it's been.

So the average is 438 days. Between revisions of the Mac Mini. Between revisions. So 2007, twice in 2009. 2009 was a great year. It's a big year. 2010, 2011, 2012. It has been 1,467 days.

Amazing. It's a long time. I think they're just going for some kind of record now. Someone has 1,500 days on a board and they're just going for it. 1,500 days are bust. Timmy's got 1,500 in the office pool and he's just like stretching it out. He's going to keep going. I agree with the assessment that it either gets updated or it goes away.

I don't know if that's October, but I think I will be really surprised if we're sitting here one year from now because we've got to do the other Ingenious topic, and we're talking about the Mac Mini being 1,700 days. One of the two things has to happen. Yeah, I agree. All right, so we are halfway through the draft today. So let's take our second break and thank our friends over at Timing for their support of this show. Timing is

the automatic time tracking app for macOS. Let's talk about why you should be tracking your time. For anyone that builds hours or just for people that want to have a bird's eye view of the types of things that they're doing, the types of work that they are completing. This might seem like something that's a bit obvious, but if you're employed or billing per project, you need to estimate how long a specific task is going to take you. Time tracking helps you stay on track with those estimates to make sure you don't end up in the red with your projects. And that can help to make more accurate estimates in the future of how long something might take you to complete. And that can help to make more accurate estimates in the future of how long something might take you to complete. And this is what timing is all about. Instead of making

you start and stop timers, timing automatically tracks how much time you spend on each app, document, or website. It shows you exactly when you were working on what, when you slacked off, when you were in Slack, and how productive you have been, so you know how to improve your productivity. Timing's functionality is similar to what you may have seen in iOS 12 Screen Time, but for the Mac, because Screen Time isn't on the Mac. Plus, Timing offers more advanced tracking, including manual tracking as well, and like all good Mac apps, has a beautiful dark mode as well. But you know that working doesn't just happen when you're at your Mac, and that's why the timeline feature automatically makes suggestions for filling gaps in your timeline. That way, you'll never again forget to enter a meeting or a phone call.

And with the automatic sync feature, your track time will automatically and magically appear across all of your Macs. So even when you go on to a coffee shop with your MacBook, you'll have a full picture on your iMac when you get back to the office or back home again. What I love about timing is somebody who does time tracking, sometimes and very frequently, I will forget to set or stop a timer. What's great about timing on the Mac, it's all done automatically. Everything's nicely categorized for you, and it creates beautiful charts, and there's lots of emoji throughout the entire user interface.

Big fan. Timing is so confident that you're going to love their fuss-free approach. They offer a totally free trial. You can download the free 14-day trial today by going to timingapp.com slash upgrade, and you can save 10% when you purchase. Once again, that is timingapp.com slash upgrade and you can save 10% when you purchase. Once again, that is timingapp.com slash upgrade. Stop guessing how exactly you're spending your time and instead focus on doing what you're good at. We thank Timing for their support of this show and RelayFM. So Jason, it is round five. Pick five for you. What do you got?

I think we've talked about Macs. We've talked about iPads. I think there's a product that Apple's been selling for a couple of years that's due for an update. Apple. And it is a company, a product that Apple's been selling. Oh, sorry. Selling. And it's the AirPods.

I feel like it is time for an AirPods update. We've had that rumor floating around for a while now. I just, I feel like we're going to get something, and something beyond just that case that they said would work with AirPower. Wouldn't it

be amazing if they shipped a case that works with AirPower and they didn't ship AirPower? That would be... Chee, John. We all love that, right? And so I think I'm going to choose that they will use this event also to launch the second generation of AirPods, which as far as we can tell, probably not going to be that different. The AirPods are pretty great. out there that they're going to do a little bit of an update that will let you do the activation of a

voice activated assistant person. Hello lady in my ear without having to actually press anything. You'll be able to just talk to her and she will answer and do your bidding. Or him if you choose the British butler as the voice which I do. It's default.

It's default male in the UK. In the UK. My home pods are the British butler now. I have a British butler in my home. Okay. In stereo. Two home pods, one butler. Alex laughed fastest at that.

I think that's... Thanks so much for tuning in show is over all right so hey mike how you doing fine the the airpods that it feels that it could be the right time for an update but at the same time it feels like a product that there is no rush there's no rush they could just keep selling this for a while and for a while making more and more money from them as they're getting better at making them um having ahoy telephone support and it would be great um but i i honestly would be surprised so okay one of the reasons that i think they haven't done this is because this next revision of AirPods

was just going to come with a Qi charging-enabled case, right? Because they said when AirPower was shown off that there would be an update to the AirPods, which was just a case. It was a new case, and you could buy the case extra and you just get the case no airpods if you wanted to and the existing airpods would get sort of slip streamed in they would get the new case obviously they didn't ship that maybe because it was actually not qi charging because it's unknown exactly what was going to be in air power if it's going to be maybe

a mix of qi charging and something proprietary. And I've heard some people say that apparently it would be very difficult to get a Qi charging coil into the surface area of the AirPods case anyway. So there may have been some stuff Apple was doing, which probably all caught on fire, which is why there's no air power. So it just flips open and the AirPods eject. It's like an emergency space launch eject, right?

It's just like we've got to evacuate the AirPods immediately. So I'm not sure. I just feel like I believe this product will eventually arrive. It would make way more sense to show it off when you add a new iPhone, though, I think. I don't know. It is an iPhone. Well, except for the fact that they're saying, oh, we're getting rid of the headphones on your ipad right and your airpods well and i think about that this is going into the holiday season and that having having refreshed their hardware and

putting the lady putting a hoy telephone in more places that that kind of goes along with it and also that it's already a very popular product, but maybe they have a revision ready to go. And at some point you just want to start selling the revision. And I would imagine that they'll probably just update it, keep the price. The old one will go away. It'll still be kind of a slipstream sort of thing.

I think they'll probably be exactly the same shape and the case will be exactly the same. Like literally it will just be uh the airpods we know with slightly better feature this always on listing kind of thing and that may be it i would love a color like i would love to get them in space gray or gold or something you know i the white is fine but i feel like the the white has kind of its day, like just the white plastic products from Apple. Like I would like to see something a little bit more, but okay, I would like to see it.

I am not as sold on this one as you are, I think. That's fair. It didn't make my short list here. So I'm going to go with my fifth pick, that the new laptop that you picked earlier will have no USB-A ports. Not even one? Not even one.

I just can't imagine Apple introducing a new laptop that would be in the lower end of cost, and it had USB-A ports on it. I think apple really wants everyone to move to usbc i think they really would like that to happen because they've made some interesting decisions about how their products have been going including if they put usbc on the ipad pro that like okay they're making some, that would be a very interesting thing. It would super surprise me

if they were like, oh, we've taken the iPad Pro and put USB-C on it and the new laptop has USB-A ports on it as well. I just don't see it happening because I also expect that this laptop will be super thin, super light, you know,

and will not have any, well, like what's it going to charge with right so it will charge by usb c so i expect that it will have one or maybe two usb c ports on it no usb a ports i what gives me pause is the idea that a product line that obviously still sells into education to a certain degree is um if you don't put a usb port on it you are saying that it may be 9.99 but the effective price is greater because you will have to buy adapters for it i will say do you think that do you think that they would change that product like they would add usb a to that product for that reason. I know that that is a good reason,

but do you think that Apple would make that decision? No, I was about to say that I think Apple selling, today's Apple selling a product for $9.99 that essentially requires an investment in several dongles that cost a lot of money

to raise the price to buy $100 or so is very much in line with their strategy yeah yeah so it's like 9.99 if you don't have students can go to dongle town too everyone can go to dongle town so yeah i i think that it will be usbc only i think that's kind of where they're going to go with it i don't think they're going to introduce any other type of charging connector i think that it's going to be that way. So I didn't have this on my list only because I'm a little I'm torn between

Apple being forcefully in favor of sticking USB-C on everything and Apple realizing that some people have USB-A devices and they don't want to buy dongles because part of me wants to say that Apple is just fully committed here

and they just, you know, look we're here for the future and you can adapt your old devices if you want but we're not going to worry about it. But then again the brand new iMac Pro shipped with a bunch of USB-A ports on the back. Like 17.

Can I tell a quick story? Yeah. So Apple had the iMac, right? We all know that machine. And they got rid of all the legacy ports. USB or GTFO. That was actually the internal marketing I heard. It's not true.

But then they had the Power Mac G3. Similar case, like the blue color translucent plastic. And that machine shipped with a single ADB port on the back. It did. And people used it for various things. The big reason, the reason I think it was there, I think, Jason, you and I agree on this, is that there was a lot of software that required like a hardware. It was copy protection. There were ADB dongles that didn't take you to any sort of town at all.

They just let you run your software. Yeah, it was DRM town is where he took you to. So if you were really cool, if you were a cool high school kid. Actually, it's the prison that's outside of Dongle Town. It's DRM penitentiary. It's the DRM correctional facility. So if you were a cool kid like me in high school and used Cork Express for fun, you had to have that thing plugged in so i think about

that but apple did the opposite with the macbook pro right the the new machine that people like us use to like do a live podcast we gotta have dongles or new cables yeah and so like this is a a time where the past doesn't really give us a lot of insight i don't think except that apple is willing to break these boundaries sometimes and i won't think except that apple is willing to break these boundaries sometimes and i won't share what i think about your pick yet but i do think that you know apple has blurred the lines from the old and new when it feels like there's a good enough use case so okay so with my next pick i'm gonna go with um another product that we haven't really talked about yet in terms of our picks but i again partly i want to spread it around a little bit here and partly i feel like

this is apple's last shot to do their product updates before uh the holidays and the holiday quarter is the big quarter for apple it you know not not all the products you think of as something you find under the tree, but the fact is they want them out there. They know a lot of people come into Apple stores. They buy a lot of stuff. Having the new stuff in the Apple stores is a good thing for them. And so even though there are no rumors that this will be particularly exciting, it's good timing for Apple to update the iMacs with new iMac models. I don't expect that they'll be particularly radical. I expect they'll maybe just be some new processors.

But I do think it's time to do new iMacs, just a refresh. It's super boring, but it's important to Apple's business. They do sell iMacs. It is, I think, a product that people buy for the family and put in the house. And so I feel like it's time to update those iMacs. It is, I think, a product that people buy for the family and put in the house. And so I feel like it's time to update those iMacs. Is there a particularly

compelling chip that should go in these iMacs? Steven? I'm calling on Steven. He's raised his hand. So the iMacs use similar class processors to the MacBook Pro. So we could see something like a six core imac totally the way the 27 inch is built now the question i have about that is like that's the

stock intel part they could do a lower core count they feel like it competes with the imac pro and i think that's but i think i think maybe it'll be uh that that 27 inch retina is six core and you know there are a lot of people who use an iMac for professional stuff but don't want to drop the money for an iMac Pro so like maybe this is a middle ground somewhere but I do think the core count will increase at least on the high end okay you'll have to pay a lot extra for the six core iMac so you'll get you know we say that but then the MacBook Pro did it by default so who knows yeah who knows that's right but anyway I just it feels like it's time and I know that's a boring thing, but just kind of spread it around that I want to believe that this won't just be about a couple of models,

that they're going to give the Mac some love, and if they do that, they're going to talk about laptops, and they're going to mention iMacs at least. I don't expect it to be a big thing, but I would hope that they'll mention. There's definitely a good chance that this could be like a press release afterward, and then I'll be sad, but I hope that it's more than that this my next pick is one that i'm surprised we've like get to round six uh which is that face id will work both horizontally and vertically on the new ipad pro i was i was leaving that i felt like i would be booed if i picked the two most easy features of

that ipad pro i'm not really sure how to take that. But anyway, I think that this... No, it's a good pick. It's a very good pick. If there's going to be, again, there's going to be Face ID. We assume there's going to be

one camera module, probably. They somehow have to make this work. Like, you can't have just one orientation on the iPad because the iPad is a full orientation product, really. Like, you can't have just one orientation on the ipad because the ipad is a four orientation product really like you can hold it in any way we're assuming that they're probably going to have

two right that you'll be one vertical one horizontal to make it work that is the bare minimum that they need to do to stop this from being a wouldn't it be nice to have face id on the ipad too i hate this like if it was just portrait right like if face id just worked in portrait it would get old very quickly imagine everybody with their keyboards attached who are suddenly lifting them up like this and putting them back down that would be terrible although i will say all the rumors suggest that this will be a two orientation thing where they figured out a way through different sensors or through different software so that they can see your face.

And I think face ID on the iPad will be great. Ever since this rumor started, I've been in those moments where I'm sitting on my iPad and it brings up the touch ID. And I think, Oh man, like my face is already here. This would be over.

And so I'm really looking forward to it. But I, I also started to envision the like, why isn't it working? Why isn't it working? Oh, I got to turn it the other way. Like, I'm not, and how do you, can you visually orient on that? Can you say, oh, I'm not holding it in the right way?

Used to be with the current model, you can say like, which side's the home button on? But there's not going to be a home button. So I'm worried about the usability of that which is not to say that i don't think they won't that they won't say there are only two orientations but i'm really worried that that's going to frustrate people i think it will be harder in portrait than landscape i think lots of people use at least some kind of cover some kind typically apple cover right and they will help you when you're in landscape to have some kind of orientation to it. I got a conspiracy theory.

Alright. What if you can't rotate to the other two orientations? Oh, right, so they... What if the up is always up for, you're either in up landscape or up portrait, and the other two orientations, it just won't go because it can't see your face what a boring conspiracy theory

because there are lizard people wait wait alex you don't know who is behind it right i just in the idea that apple what if apple like totally breaks our idea that oh you can just hold this in any orientation? It's like, nope, you can't. I'm not going to even rotate that direction. It won't be as helpful anymore to be able to hold it in all four orientations. Well, right now, the home button makes a difference, but if it's literally the same in all directions

and it doesn't matter, then that could be the way that they set that off, I think, is just to refuse to rotate in a couple of directions. By the way, i didn't pick this i'm not going to pick this because i don't believe it's going to happen it's just my wish but when they do this mythical ipad pro with usbc um i would really love it if they would take that apple logo and like rotate it and say this is a horizontal product primarily the ipad pro i don't think they'll do it but i would love to see that. Or it be on a little swivel.

That's right. It's a spinner. You can just spin it. It's an LED. It's an OLED logo that turns. The RGB. Rotates with you. You can max it out like a PC.

It'd be great. I'd love that. Okay, so let's go over to the draftcasters, Alex and Stephen, for their opinions of rounds five and six. investors Alex and Steven for their opinions of rounds five and six I mean I think the pick of basically having uh we're I'm gonna call it the bipad of just having two different orientations Alex is the easy one Alex that's brilliant I I know that's why I said it like that's very good if they do that we can all remember we were all together at the time that that name was coined very good but one thing i

want to be clear on it so it with the air pad or air what are these airpods the pods do you get a point if they're just new not if there's a new case or anything? It has to be at least a new feature. Okay. Mm, cowards. All right. Just something new? All right. It's broad.

Yeah. That's real broad. Really plan to win. I don't think a new case counts as a new feature. Yeah. Yeah, that is the case. If the case is wireless charging, as the adjudicator, I would say that's a new feature. No, we have a separate pick for the case.

This excludes just a new case, same old AirPods. Wow. Who's a coward now? You're a coward! This is harsh. You started it. The AirPods, I agree with y'all,

it seems like something that could happen anytime. It could just any time. Right? It could just be, like, whenever. So that, I feel, is pretty risky, that it would be now. Except for the holidays. That's the one little voice in the back of my mind, saying, holiday buyers.

That's a really small voice. Jason was right jason wins again so i guess we'll see uh so the the usba thing i think for this to be i think if they are really building a computer and they they have sat down and they've understood the needs of schools and students and consumers, I think it will have a USB-A port on it. I think Apple can go down that road if they are convinced that that's what those people need. And so I'm not going to be shocked if it doesn't.

But if it has one, I would be happy. I think that that means they're listening to those types of users. And I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on that until I'm be happy. I think that that means they're listening to those types of users and I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on that until I'm proven otherwise. And that may be foolish but I just feel optimistic that they are taking the time to get this right. And I think

the USB-A port is part of that. And as far as the other stuff, IMAX, it's time. It's been a while. So I'm in the chat room as well, and the chat room's talking about, well, would it have the T2 and the fast SSDs? And, like, I don't know. And that's, you know, this is just a mention,

and it's a different question, I think. But I think it's definitely time for the iMacs, especially because that Intel chipset's been out for a while. Apple's had time for, like, the iMac intern to figure out how to put it in there. I think that's... He was looking for the CD slot for a while, but he gave it away now. Got suction cups.

That feels like something that could happen, for sure. I like that pick. So we go into round seven, the penultimate pick. Jason Snell, what do you got? I'm going to do another Apple presentation pick here and say that I predict that in a video either introducing or during the presentation, Apple will somehow reference

the fact that there were many different Apple logos drawn by people that were sent out for the invitation. So I'm basically making the art used in invitations leads into something, a story of some kind, or even just a montage in the presentation. So that all those 300 pieces of art will get shown in some other way. They might explain it.

They might not say where they came from. I think that's maybe a different pick, but that they'll use them in some way because they want to extend the theme. It feels like a Mike pick. It does. It feels like something I would come up with. Did you just insult yourself to insult me?

Did you go through yourself to insult me? Everyone else is. Or are you praising me? All right. Hashtag Mike was right. Well, you would be right. I get it Especially if This was made in

Like if this stuff was made in Photoshop Right like and then they were like all I don't think made in Photoshop but I think drawn On iPad with Apple Pencil is going to be the story Yeah no matter how it was done I see that I can see it Um They were all drawn by Spinal Tap story. Yeah, no matter how it was done. I see that. I can see it.

I don't know. They were all drawn by Spinal Tap. What's your pick, Mike? I think we're going to see some other app debut for the iPad from another major company. That it won't just be Adobe. Every presentation has app demos of some description,

whether it's games or AR stuff. Like, there's always something to show this, you know, here's this medical thing that you're never going to use, but it's really good. Where they were slicing the knee open with the Apple Pencil? That was one of the worst.

I felt physically ill. It was terrible. Awful. And I think that there will be some other company that comes on stage to talk about their new app that they've got, which is going to be a big deal for X or Y reason, or here is this company

that you know and love who makes this product that you know and love on other platforms, and they also are going to be bringing a version of this application to the iPad, and it's going to be amazing. What do you mean by major company? Because that's one component of this application to the ipad and it's going to be amazing what do you mean by major company because that's one component of this is big app debut from major company so what's a big app let's say and what's a major company that we're all familiar with like it's you know it

that it's going to be a company that comes on stage and you're like they have a history of doing stuff so it's not going to be like super awesome games and you're gonna be like oh you played that game that one time not a game this. This is not a game. This is an application from a well-known company. Like FileMaker? Like FileMaker. Bento is back. This will be one of those ones we'll have to discuss to agree on because of what will come.

But I feel like we will be able to come to an agreement on like, we can't pretend we don't know who this company is because we both use that software already on the Mac or whatever. All right. Last pick. Well, I did my wacky pick there in seven. You called me on it. I don't know. I'm going to go with another iPad pick.

And it has been rumored and i think there might be more to this but i'm gonna go with a uh 4k external display port or external display support on the ipad which implies usbc and it might even be one of the reasons they're doing it is they want to be able to drive 4k it would mean that you you could play a 4K HDR video out by a cable to a 4K TV, and it would play there. Without touch screens, it's just either mirroring or an external presentation display on iOS right now, which is part of the frustration of this whole USB-C conversation, is there's so much that they could do with it, but iOS won't do anything with it, at least not yet.

But I feel like they're going in a direction here with the iPad Pro and with USB-C that includes that. They have more power with USB-C, I think, to do things like drive video. I think also to drive external devices, that literally more power coming out of the port than they can do on lightning and that that'll be good if you are running anything that's a self-powered device but for this pick i think i i want to believe that

there will be external you know really big monitor support right out you'll be able to just connect it in usbc and the 4k monitor will light up with whatever the ipad wants to project i really struggle with this one because if it's just this right like just on the surface of it that you can run a 4k external display and you're right i just there's so many questions and i can't really work out what problem this is solving that apple don't already have perfectly fine ways of doing like we added a usbc port so you didn't need a dongle anymore seems like a really weird thing to do right like it's just it seems like a very strange like oh we completely changed this part of the product just so you can plug into a presentation more easily what if it was um we are introducing a video editor or we updated iMovie for ios yeah like that and you can you can

plug it into a 4k tv and do your edits here while you see it output there it'd be great but like then they're like where does the ipad go i i agree i think one of the mysteries of this rumor is what story are they telling around this? Because like we always talk about on this podcast, Apple events are storytelling events. Apple is selling their products, but they want to weave their little story

about why they're important and why that tech feature actually means something to you as a human being who's going to buy their product. And what's the story behind USB-C? And there's got to be one, right? Like it can't just

be well usbc is better so we're using that now although they might do that but i i would like there to be more and it could be something as simple as look at this we can do 4k video now and you can you know you can preview it you can edit your 4k video from your that you shot on your iphone or that you shot on your ipad's new 4k video capable camera presumably uh you can edit that i'm sorry and uh i said she would judge us i guess i was right yeah um and then you can edit that and preview it externally on a 4k display that that might be a story they could tell yeah yeah it i'm i'm intrigued I also have another boring conspiracy theory here, but I'm going to save that for later. Okay, great.

So this is my final pick. Now, I have in the past made some really bad decisions at final pick time. It's true. So I'm going to go with something that I think is likely, but it's boring. This is a boring pick. Oh, Mike, no, you don't want to do this.

No, you want to win. You want to tie. You want to tie. You want to tie for the year, don't you? I think there will be some kind of promotion for the iPhone XR on stage. There will be a video which shows it going on sale, or Tim will mention it like, oh, we just had the iPhone XR go on sale. It was just down at the Brooklyn store, and they're selling lots of iPhone XRs.

It's just the second know, it is the second working day after it goes on sale. It goes on sale Friday, the event's on Tuesday. Apple, I think, are going to try and make a really big deal out of this. I think this is something they want to be a big success for many reasons. I think this just feels

like a logical thing they would do. I think any product that would go on sale if they have an event the next week they'll probably do something to mention it I didn't even have this in my list I think they're going to turn the page I think it's going to be like onto new stuff

you're right sometimes they do bask in the glory of past accomplishments they very frequently show a video of the last products going on sale that is a thing that happens they will do an event in October and they'll show people buying iPhones in September all around the world. I think the XR will be a big focus

of that if they do it. Alright. Okay. Dropcasters, what do you have to say? It's boring and controversial. I admire you for that pick. When I first saw this list and saw the

4k ipad stuff i thought that this was mike and he had just like hit his head or snorted some bath salts or something but now jason it was me i hit my head yeah it's like a freaky friday situation up here it's very strange but now with the idea of like yes we need a narrative for this and it's like a freaky Friday situation up here. It's very strange. But now with the idea of like, yes, we need a narrative for this. And it's not just, we're pulling people into the future with USB-C kicking and screaming. We're going to continue to be like,

you can do real things on an iPad. I promise. However implausible you can do them. How about you, Steven? I think there's a world that Apple adds 4K support, and there's not a story. It's just, hey, you have a 4K TV, and people plug things into TVs. This seems great.

I don't think – And literally, you can take your great 4K HDR movie from iTunes, and if you don't have an Apple TV, guess what? You just plug it in and go play, and it plays. plays right i don't think it has to be a story it would be great like hey imovie can use it as a second monitor you can preview like that stuff would be cool and they should do those things but i don't know if that is required to get in the door on this especially if they're moving usbc for bigger reasons they explain and this is like oh and this also gets us this other thing do you think that this functionality could be enabled and they just do not mention it on stage yeah i mean small feet you know uh dan always does this on six colors i love these posts where he like

goes through the apple website it's like these are 92 things that apple didn't say but happened today like i love reading through that list it's like oh all this stuff is true yeah those are the draft killers that's the list of the draft killers. That's a great band name, the draft killers. It's just a killer's cover band. They drink a lot of beer before they go on stage. So, I mean, who knows? I do think that if they do USB-C, they should do this.

So I like it from that perspective. But I just don't know if I buy into the idea that it has to be a giant part of the keynote. Especially if they're going to spend... I'm not predicting giant part. I'm predicting literally... I think there may be... If I had to predict,

I'd predict there would literally be a moment where if Mike and I were together, we would high five, where it'll be like, we announced USB-C on the iPad Pro. And look, it does 4K video. And it's like, okay, we each get a point there.

And that's fine, okay, we each get a point there. That's fine. These other things. I actually don't have a problem with your first one, Jason, about art being included. Apple has become much more artistic in their events the last several years. They have all this. The Chicago event was entirely handwritten and beautiful,

and it started in the invitations and extended all the way through to presentation. But even atdc you know the banners that are on the outside the building like that's that stuff has just kind of filtered out to everything during these events so i i expect i agree did you agree with you just i expect to see that stuff uh even if it's just like sort of the apple logos are like flipping around before tim comes on like a you know screensaver on the projector or something i I think that stuff will be there. I don't know what Mike is thinking about either of his. I don't know how you define a big app from a major company.

I'm thinking about Mac apps from third parties that this iPad would unlock. What is on that list? BB Edit. Yeah, right. Mars Edit. That I would love. FileMaker. FileMaker. edit yeah right mars edit that i would file maker file maker i want this to happen so badly because i don't think that the two of you will be able to decide what is a quote big company oh i know

we'll have to decide i know i don't think steven's gonna let's parse the official wording here because mike and i will probably do it. It's demo of another big app debut. And not a game. A major company and not a game. Why do I enjoy doing these jobs? Seriously, what is in that? I'm really trying to think.

Fork Express? Yes. You have Adobe. their stuff's there um and you've said that this is not photoshop yeah right or separate from a photoshop pic office is on the ipad it's really good like i just i just don't know what's in that category i like it for it to be right because like the ipad if apple's making the iPad more powerful and Photoshop is there like you know what it could be Apple needs more stuff

I know what it could be like Autodesk said that they're pulling their stuff off of the iPad right it could be something like that where they're like actually this new iPad Pro is so amazing and the new pencil is so amazing that we're gonna bring back 3D modeling support or something like that Procreate could have a new app

Pixelmator could have a new app. They would both count. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I guess we'll see. I just worry about that as a pick. That's what I'm saying. What about Apple?

What if Apple have a new app? We're probably saying no, right? So that was, no, there's a separate item. That was a new Apple-built app for the iPad that is possible. I keep thinking with an iPad Pro that at some point they are going to say here's Final Cut Pro for iPad and it's not just iMovie

or here's Logic for iPad and it's that would be great but I don't think this is the time but it could be. And to round this out, I think if Apple does promotion of iPhones, it'll just be like XR XS all kind of mixed together. Like, hey, it's new iPhone season.

People are running on Apple Store screaming, like sort of a more generic iPhone launch. I just don't know if they would call it the XR specifically. It doesn't need to be. Like if they mention it, I get the point. It's true. If they just talk about all the iPhones and they talk about the XS and the XS Max and the XR,

it's a point for Mike. There you go. That's all I care about, ladies and gentlemen. Mike, you've really laid the groundwork for a technical win. I'm not fully right. We are in the endgame here. I have very clearly... The letter of the pick

and the intention of the pick. Look, we got so many great choices here that we didn't pick because they would be entertaining but they would threaten the sanctity of the draft. Look, we got so many great choices here that we didn't pick because they would be entertaining but they would threaten the sanctity of the draft. Well, thankfully we have one last section. We do. We're going to talk about a few of those, but before we do, let me thank our final sponsor of this

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That is instabug.com slash upgrade. Go there now and get that cool shirt. But act fast. This offer is only valid until the 30th of October. Our thanks to Instabug for their support of this show and RelayFM. All right, Jason, so what else did you have on your kind of short list that you were thinking might make it into your drop box? So I had a couple keyboard-related things that I didn't choose

because I think I already, with the smart connector, I've really revealed that I have no idea what I think I already, with the smart connector, I've really revealed that I have no idea what Apple's keyboard strategy is for this thing. I assume there will be one. I have a hard time believing there will be no smart connector of any kind and Apple's going to be like, yeah, that was really great, but we give up on the smart

covers, like the smart keyboard. We're just not going to do it anymore. Sorry, see you later because it's like the defining feature of the iPad Pro along with the pencil. Those are the two key things. So they have to attach somehow, I think. I don't think they're going to say,

well, we're just going to use Bluetooth. Don't worry about it. That would be a real step back. Yeah, I just can't believe that they're going to do it. So I had two that I kept on my list and I kept looking at them and looking at them and I just couldn't pick either of them. And one of them is the boring and simple pick,

which is a new kind of smart keyboard, lot like the one we've got, but new. Um, the argument there, it's so boring. It's like, Hey,

these will be slightly different sizes and therefore the keyboard will be slightly different. Yay. What a pick. Everybody's excited. My one that I really wanted to pick, but I don't think will happen because i want it so much that i think apple won't give it to me is um the how do we we phrase it apple built laptop shell

for ipad pro includes keyboard and the idea there is that that you will have it it'll be a keyboard and a back shell you pop it on uh it uses that new weird connector that we don't know what it's for and your ipad pro is a laptop when you want it to be like the bridge keyboard that i use a lot of the time that sort of turns my ipad into a keyboard but apple designed built in concert with the new ipad pro design so that it that it was always intended to be a part of the product if you wanted it to be and then you can just pop it off and go about your tablet business. I really want that to happen. I feel like this could be a time where they could do that,

but I want it too much for me to believe that it's anything but wish casting. So I have like three that are on my list that are all related to the Mac Mini. I don't know why I seem to care about this so much. Are you okay? I don't know. I seem to care about this so much. Are you okay? I don't know. Jetlag.

Pro Focus, I think, will be one. Who are they selling this product to? I think that the old market for the Mac Mini doesn't exist anymore. I think that that market has been taken over with laptops. Talk about a hard pick to judge. Has a Pro Focus. This was one of the reasons I hard pick to judge. Has a pro focus.

This was one of the reasons I didn't pick it. Oh, the arguments. If it's in space, great. It's pro. That's all it takes. We want to keep doing this show. Maybe they'll talk about who uses the device, what it should be used for,

maybe it's more expensive, it has more powerful chips in it. It seems to be out of whack for what the product has produced like being in the past which is just plug it into your windows setup and you have a mac now like you know i i think that it's going to change from that because i don't think the mac mini is really a thing that people want in that way anymore i think people just buy laptops or they buy iPads. I don't think that that old idea of the Mac Mini really exists anymore.

One that you put in, which I do really like, and it would be a shame if they didn't do something like this, that the new Mac Mini is radically smaller than the old model. That it is closer maybe to an Apple TV in design than the old Mac Minis. That would be really cool and would make this product desirable for many more people. My theory about this, because I listen to especially ATP talks about this,

and they're like, oh, it doesn't need to get that much smaller. It's not that big a deal. And I agree with them. And yet I feel like for Apple to care about the Mac mini, Apple needs to be proud of the Mac mini, and they need to be proud of how they're using it to redefine something. And having it be radically smaller, even though, yeah, there are very small PCs. Intel's got those little nooks that are just like the size of an Apple TV, practically.

But for Apple to go out and boast, like, look how much more mini it is, I feel like would be a driving factor, potentially, in the hardware design of that product. And they could make it really small. It doesn't have to be as small as an Apple TV, but it could be a driving factor potentially in the hardware design of that product. And they could make it really small. It doesn't have to be as small as an Apple TV, but it could be a lot smaller, because the current mini design is really kind of still based on having a CD slot in it.

So when they went to the UniBuy design, they had one model that had an optical drive, and they ditched it, but it's the same footprint, and there's definitely room to re-engineer. think about what they've done with the the macbook line since you know that that mac mini was designed they can make those guts smaller absolutely and then the other was that it would have a usb-a port i i feel like that the desktops can i don't know why but i feel like the desktops can keep usba where the laptops

aren't when we did when we made our run of like port choices i i thought about talking about this too because i i'm again of two minds of it i think it's more likely that the new mac mini has a usba port at the same time um if apple designs the mac mini once every five years, do they put a USB-A port on it and have it hang out there for all that time? I would because it's used, its whole purpose is to be a jack of all trades. My Intel NUC has USB-C and it has three USB-A ports. And I feel like that's in the spirit

of that kind of little upstart, weird, tiny PC is you want to have a bunch of different ports on it because you don't even know how people are going to use it. But I was afraid to pick it because it's also Apple and they could crush our dreams. The most depressing trip to dongle town one can make is for a desktop, right? So like my iMac Pro, I've got just the right number of USB-C things and just the right number of USB-A things. I understand I'm in a different environment. I'm plugging my laptop into a bunch of stuff. I don't love it, but I can deal with it.

But if I'm buying a dongle that's going to be on my desk for five years, that just really makes me upset somehow, like deeply inside. And so USB-A forever, is what I'm saying. I'm not actually saying that. USB-A for a little bit longer. That's not as strong a stance. What a good slogan. Just hold on, little buddy.

Is there anything else you wanted to mention, Jason? I have two more that I want to mention really quickly. One of them is, this is the one that we were putting this list together earlier today, and I laughed out loud and I said to Mike, this is the pick that will get me booed. Again, and then you made a totally different pick that was also booable,

which is the filling of the holes. It's a choice that I almost made, which is new laptop has same butterfly keyboard. Because it's going to, though. Like, hey, everybody, really exciting $9.99 laptop. It's awesome. It's got our awesome butterfly switches that everybody loves.

Come and get it, everyone. People just leave the event. I think it might happen. I was thinking that this one would probably be really hard for draft scoring because I think that they would probably not talk about it one way or another, like in any concrete terms concrete don't mention the keyboard or just be like it has a keyboard right but it's like what does that you know it's a great keyboard really hard right because then we might have to do the research afterward and realize well actually

it is a butterfly keyboard although it may not be the same but it's similar and they didn't mention it on stage but they did mention the keyboard. Look at what happened with the last MacBook Pro, where they basically wouldn't talk about it. And then someone kind of found out, but no one's really 100% sure. I think it would be really telling if they launched a brand new laptop and just didn't mention the keyboard. It's got a great keyboard. It's got keys. It has a – yeah. There is definitely –

There's keys on it. It's great. And my other one is in the boring conspiracy theory category. He's on conspiracy theories. Okay. I mentioned the 4K support for the iPad. I was thinking there might be a larger 4K support story here where the iPad Pro supports an external 4K monitor,

where the new Mac Mini, which doesn't have a monitor because it's a Mac Mini an external 4K monitor, where the new Mac Mini, which doesn't have a monitor because it's a Mac Mini, supports 4K video out. And Apple, sorry Mac Pro fans, Apple uses this moment with the release of the Mac Mini to release its own 4K retina display. Isn't that wacky? I think it might happen.

I don't think it will happen, but I think it might happen. I think it's possible that it could happen. And wouldn't that be great if john syracuse it was like well you got your apple 4k display now buy a mac buying a mac mini mac mini needs a display and the ipad pro doesn't but it could use it the last one that i wanted to mention because i'm just not sure how i feel about this one is that there may be some addressing of the business week thing i don't i don't feel very confident about this i don't think they're going to mention it but i also thought it was an interesting thought at least i wouldn't have picked it but i thought huh maybe but they won't

but maybe i also think that it's possible somebody from the Brooklyn Academy of Music will appear on stage at some point. But I made my one stagecraft pick. I don't need to make another one. Is that approved or not? And I just walk out by accident. Oh, no. It's Joe the sound guy.

Don't get off stage, Joe. No. They don't let anybody back there who's not from Apple. They don't. Brooklyn. They'll be like up in the balcony is everybody from the brooklyn academy of music hey that's it so ladies and gentlemen in the

audience in chicago and listeners at home that is the draft that is the full draft that we are going to be submitting we gotta live with these picks now we're gonna spend the next week looking back at this list and going what were were we doing? I knew what I was doing. We're lost in the lights. So thank you to everyone for being here. Thanks for getting to our guests in a moment.

And again, if you want to play along at home, there's a couple of great ways to do that. There'll be a couple of links in our show notes, which you can find in your podcast app of choice or at relay.fm slash upgrade slash 216. There'll be a couple of links in our show notes, which you can find in your podcast app of choice or at relay.fm slash upgrade slash 216. There'll be a PDF that you can download and score in an app of your choice, so you can

check out the interactive scorecard made by Zach Knox, and you can tick that off as you go. It's a great way to do it, too. I do want to thank our draftcasters for joining us. I think this has been a wonderful experiment and something which has been very enjoyable. Sometimes

mean to me, but mostly enjoyable. Alex Cox of Dubai Friday and Roboism here on RelayFM. Alex is at Alex Cox on Twitter. Thank you Alex for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. And Stephen Hackett at ISMH on Twitter. He hosts many shows

including Liftoff, which he hosts with Jason, and Connected, which he hosts with me, which is also going to be doing a live show in New York later this week, which I'm very excited about. Stephen also writes at 512pixels.net. Stephen, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. And Jason, you're going to be in Brooklyn.

How can people follow along with your coverage of the event? You can go to sixcolors.com. You can follow Six Colors Event on Twitter, although Twitter has refresh problems. But if you go to Six Colors, it'll be embedded there, and it should work. And then, of course, we will do an episode of Upgrade immediately following the event.

I'm going to take a subway to New York City to a studio and talk to you about what happened. And I'm going to be in Canada. So that's the whole thing that's happening. This was one of those things where I did have to call my airline and say, can I move my flight, please? Because I have work to do. So I'm going to be in Toronto,

which is going to be very interesting. I'm really keen to see how that's going to go. You can follow Jason. He is at jsnell on Twitter. I am at imike, I- which is going to be very interesting. I'm really keen to see how that's going to go. You can follow Jason. He is at jsnell on Twitter. I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks again to our sponsors, Pingdom, Timing, and Instabug. Thank you all in person for joining us today. We really, really appreciate you coming out to see the show.

And thank you all for listening. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, everybody. Goodbye. Oh, it really was everybody. Goodbye. Bye. Oh, it really was everybody who said that. That's it. Thank you so much.

Thank you.