Upgrade - 247: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2019

Episode Date: May 27, 2019

It’s time for our fourth annual competition regarding what will happen on stage next week at WWDC! Will there be new hardware? What will macOS be called? How many times will we see Tim Cook? This week we guess, but next week reality will be our judge.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 247 today's show is brought to you by bombast lunar display text expander and butcher box this is the fourth annual wwdc draft event and it is the keynote draft for 2019 i want to thank chris breen for the wonderful draft specific theme the christopher breen marching band everyone i am mike hurley and i am joined by my drafting partner mr jason snell or my adversary i should say yep that's sure hi yes we're we are uh adversaries but we're also partners in finding out uh what will happen next week exactly now i want to start the hashtag snow talk question it comes from aaron and aaron asks happy draft day says that states that and then asks jason as the underdog for wwdc predictions how have you prepared for 2019's wwdc predictions who has determined that i'm the

underdog so this is it i thought to myself hang on a second how is that the case so i checked because i have all the results i have beat you every wwdc draft that we have done. All three. I've won all three. Oh, interesting. So I am the WWDC draft champion. Please give me that. It's the only thing I've ever won. I suppose then to Aaron's point, I will say that I prepared like I'd done in the past,

which is looked at our list that we agreed upon. And then the morning of the draft sort of paste a couple of things at the top of it that i think i like and that's it so i think this level of preparation shows you why i have not won the wwdc draft but that's no different to any other draft prep that you do though right and you win all of those pretty handily that's true it may be that i just don't have a handle on the on the w i will say to our own i actually did for something that we're going to do later in the draft um i downloaded the video of last year's keynote and scrubbed through it so that was like a little refresher of like what's a wwdc keynote like oh see that is some different preparation to think about it you've been studying the tapes i i did i went back to

the tapes i i think it's something i try to visualize look at the tapes visualize the the keynote and uh stay within myself if i if i was a tim cook what would i do am i gonna run on stage no i'm gonna wait back here for a uh facetime based an emoji based or emoji based demo for a version of software that will not are you making your first no no that's last last year that was that was a tim cook appearance that was his uh he was demoing that feature that didn't ship oh yeah yeah oh yeah yeah see that's what happens when you go to the videotape anyway i am as prepared as always which means nothing we're always very prepared we take we take a year to prepare for this thank you so much to aaron for that snell talk question if you would like to uh have a question included in the show just send out a

tweet with the hashtag snell talk and you may help us open a future episode now we are going into the draft and we will start through drafts as all drafts good drafts should be started and that is by uh talking about the rules so there are 10 rounds 20 overall picks we get 10 picks each the winner of the previous draft gets first pick and that was jason uh for an item to be counted in the draft for it to be a successful point scored when we scored them next week it must either clearly be announced on stage or on a slide during the presentation yes and it's the keynote because often at WWDC, there will be really interesting things announced in the State of the Union, which happens after lunch. Doesn't count. Doesn't count for us. Doesn't count. Doesn't count. This is a keynote draft. If me and Jason

cannot decide on the winner, we do have adjudication from Stephen Hackett. We do have an extra thing now, which is a tiebreaker. This is something that we introduced last time. So we have two ways to get out of some kind of stalemate. In case of a tie that we agree upon as a tie, there is a tiebreaker question. If we cannot agree, Stephen Hackett will adjudicate. But we always prefer to score ourselves, which we will do at the beginning of next week's WWDC reaction episode. No half points, four points only.

There are no points awarded for anything pre-announced or ridiculously obvious. So for example, we cannot say iOS 13 will be announced. And in a discussion that occurred before the episode today, we have removed marzipan from this list

as we deem it to be probably too obvious. And pre-announced essentially because they announced it last year at the on the keynote that they were going to do it this year and so i think i it could be argued but i think we just both agreed we're going to just take the existence of marzipan off the list this one kind of kind of skirts against both of these points too closely so we may as well remove it considering we have we have like 50 items to choose from uh from our master list that we create so like we're not hurting for options and if you had disagreed with me and said no no no i think we should leave it on there my response would have been okay i

picked marzipan then well yeah i mean honestly i thought that was gonna be your first pick i mean it's too obvious it's gonna be mine so we want to have we want to have fun here so we do it's going to be mine. We want to have fun here. So we do. It's out. The points awarded on the episode next week are final as well. So I did mention that the winner of the previous draft gets to pick first. And so far, it's only been one draft this year, which was the services event draft, which Jason won. So he's going to be picking first. We should start with our tiebreaker round, right?

Oh, sure. Let's do that. we can do that now uh the tiebreaker round is so last time we came up with the concept of the tiebreaker round and it was what color tim cook's shoes were um this time i because i want it to be something that's right the problem is if it's if if i pick gray shoes and you pick white shoes and they're brown shoes then we don't have a tiebreaker that is what we learned from the previous tie breaker that we needed something a little bit more clear because who knows how we could have ever agreed on the color of the shoes so so since i won the last event i have a i have an advantage here but you get to you get to take control and

it's sort of like i get to set the bar and you get to choose above or below. So what we're going to do is I'm going to pick a number that is the number of times Tim Cook appears on stage, comes on stage during the event. You could imagine an event where he's only on at the beginning of the end would be two times. He sometimes appears as a bridging. It's a little bit of stagecraft, right? Like they're done with the ios stuff and tim reappears and says well apple watch is great too here's apple watch and then he leaves again i have a question for you on this right so i want to make a clarification point if uh he introduces someone then leaves and comes back off like to kind of take control after the introduction like

imagine a demo of some kind does that count as times that he appears on the stage? Yes, if he leaves the stage and it's not like running a video or something, but he leaves the stage because somebody else is out there and he's gone and then he returns, I think that counts. And I think that's where the guessing game comes here. I will say I did the math last time

and by my account, Tim only was on stage four times last time. He was at the beginning and the end, the bridge between iOS and Mac OS and the bridge between watch OS and Mac OS, I think is all that he did. Maybe he was up there a fifth time. Did I have to go back to the videotape, Mike? I have to do more consulting on the videotape here. Yeah.

Nope. It's five. I stand corrected. It's five times. So he appeared as a bridge between all the different segments. And so that's going to be my pick is five. And you, Mike Hurley, so I get five and I get all the numbers above or below five, but you get to choose which one you prefer.

Does Tim appear more than five times on stage or fewer than five times on stage? I'm going to go more than five. All right. The reason I'm going to do this, this year, it does feel like there's potentially more stuff than last year, like more different things. So I'm going to go with more than five,

especially if they do any kind of like, we want to refresh you about Apple Arcade or Apple TV Plus. Absolutely. Right? I can imagine there being people coming on and off. And I'm not trying to railroad you here. I think this is the real question.

We don't know. It's sort of like a coin flip. I've set the bar where I think, based on last year, where I think it's sort of reasonable, and then you get your 50-50. My only advantage is that I get 5 and 4, three, two, one, but I think it's only a tiebreaker. I genuinely can't imagine there will be less kind of breaks than last year. I would expect it's probably going to be five or more. That's just why I went with more.

I think you're probably right. All right. Well, now that's our tiebreaker. It doesn't count for any points, but if we end up tied at the end, that will decide it decide it tim cook's appearances and we may have to go to the videotape ourselves to determine that one yeah that's going to be an interesting one to uh to score that so we'll have to work that out i just say while you're watching everybody watch count your tim cooks count your tims hopefully we won't need to use it though which is yeah that's right i i do wonder if we are ever going to need a tiebreaker like the tiebreaker was not introduced because we tied once we just decided to do it no it's fun we we get to this way we get something that's not a pick but it's also kind of weird and outlandish and and

something to pay attention to so i like that part of it all right let's do this. Jason, what is your first pick for the WWDC keynote draft of 2019? My first pick for the WWDC keynote draft of 2019, it's like a sports draft. They keep saying the branding over and over again. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. The upgrade WWDC keynote draft of 2019. Why, Mike, my first pick in the upgrade keynote draft of 2019 for WWDC is dark mode on ios because they added

dark mode to mac os last year in a rare move where mac os got a feature before ios that doesn't usually happen but it's so obvious especially with the oled screens that they're using but even on the lcd backlit screens the it's they're so it's so nice. It's a nice option for people to have. I actually prefer dark mode on iOS more than I prefer it on macOS, I've found. But since Apple has done the work on macOS, I feel like it's a natural extension. This is also one of many things that we're going to pick that have been rumored, that have been reported by various people, whether it's Guy Rambeau or Mark Gurman. And I think it's only logical that there be dark mode on iOS. Something that I've been thinking about when it comes to dark mode is

like what it's actually going to be. Like, is it going to be what we would hope it would be, which is like that there is like, you know, they keep all the color, but they make everything darker, you know, everything that's white turns black, but everything else kind of remains the same. the same or maybe there are like you know you get some apps that they'll change the text sort of tint colors to different colors or is it going to be like a grayscale mode like where just everything is in black and white i don't know right like i've been thinking about this because i was rereading mark german's report and and it it seems to talk about like everything being like dark and black and grays and i was like i wonder what which and it it seems to talk about like everything being like dark and black and grays and i was like i wonder what which which it's going to be like i i hope that it would be

how we think of dark modes now where everything that's in color will still be in color i think so i think that's what i would hope but but we'll wait and see what it might be jason is like unless you are developing properly that's what will happen to you right like if you use the apis then you can have things in color like the um the invert color thing you know there's like an invert color mode in accessibility and you can uh as a developer if you properly support it and and you can have like images not invert but if you don't officially support it they will invert and i wonder if it could be something like that right where it's like if you don't officially support it we're

just going to take all the color away from you um but if you do officially support it then you can kind of specify what what will be what who knows we'll see but this is something i desperately want i really do want it um so i i hope that they do it uh it was that was uh gonna be my second pick jason so i had it very high up in my list all right i'm i think i'm going for a pretty safe number one because i want to win uh new memoji sticker options okay um i think that they will do something um related to memoji because it's only a year old and it seems to have been popular enough. Right. I think people seem to really like it. It seems to be something. It's one of those things that I think can help sell a phone to people.

But some of the rumors have been that, you know, you will now create your Memoji and you'll be able to just choose pre-made stickers. So you don't have to make faces every time. I would really like it for that reason. But I would actually really like them, Apple, to kind of go after Bitmoji, where Bitmoji not only creates like expressions, but things that surround them, right? So there's like Bitmoji that say congratulations and your character's in it or all sorts of sorts of stuff that they update frequently. And I think that Bitmoji is popular stuff that they update frequently and i think that bitmoji is popular enough that apple could could try and do something a bit similar but i at least

think that me mode new memoji stickers would be able to present you with a set of effectively your own emoji that you can pick from as opposed to needing to make the faces right like i've spoken about this in the past yeah this is bitmoji yeah where they basically where they're posed in certain ways but they're using your memoji character yeah i i would love to see you know like all of the yellow faced emoji right like the little yellow circle face emojis uh they basically just recreate all of those with my own face that's what i would love right so like then i have my own emoji at that point right launch i'm putting the me in emoji i was reluctant to pick this because it's so specific and i'm not 100 sure i i'm i'm pretty sure there will be something related to me emoji and animoji because aren't why would there not be um but the stickers i wasn't 100 on that so that's a bold

pick but i think uh you love it so that's the the part of the balance of there is a part of it wish casting yeah it does happen you got to fight against the wish casting um all right for my next pick i'm gonna i'm gonna go big mike it's a big one it's gonna happen it's gonna happen very much like it did a couple years ago with the iMac Pro, it is the unveiling of the new Mac Pro. Oh, wow. Jason, you have picked this much earlier in the draft than I was expecting it would come out in the draft. Because this is one of those things where we all feel like it should happen, right? But I don't know. I agree with you, right? I completely agree with you. I feel certain now, of course, watch them not do it, but I feel like this is the audience. This is the place.

They've already said it's coming. It's not going to be like released, but like what they did with the iMac Pro, this is going to be their sneak peek to get the developers whipped in a frenzy. We'll know that it's coming, but that'll be it until it ships. And maybe it'll again ship in December or something like the iMac Pro did.

Who knows? I agree with all of that, right? Because we are on the exact same page here because all of that seems super logical. But there's just something where I'm not, I just don't feel 100% on it. I just don't. And I on it. I just don't. And I don't know why.

In, you know, because you'd say like, oh, we wouldn't have heard anything more about it. Right. Because they would keep it close to their chest. And I guess, you know, where we are sitting right now, there's not been any like official leak, which would suggest that there will be nothing. It's already also technically been announced that it's coming. it's in a weird in-between state yeah um and i don't know where they're making it and i don't know when they're making it and it's possible i think this like i think this gives them the opportunity to impress people we have gotten little clues about what it's like that have leaked out but i feel like they they they had the opportunity

with this product to um announce it well in advance and uh and blow people away so i think they're going to do it i i i don't know why they wouldn't right like if it's going to ship this year and they've already said that it's coming the developer audience is the place to drop that product. So one of the things I think about when I'm going into the draft is I try and put myself into Apple's mindset of like, what is it that they want to market to the mass market, right? Like what do they want to show off? And I was thinking about iOS, especially on the iPhone. And it feels like this year there maybe might not be a ton for the iPhone, right? Like it feels like a lot of maybe the iOS work will be on the iPad this year.

Right. So I thought, well, if they want to show off like what are some of the big features coming to iOS, I think they're going to do another demo of Apple Arcade. Oh, right. Because this will be something that they can show. They can maybe have nobody has come out and demoed a game. Yeah, they didn't do any of that, right? Like they just show videos and stuff.

So we may see somebody come out. They may want to say something to the developers in the audience, right? About kind of like to get people excited about why they want to submit their game to Apple Arcade. But I think that this will be one of the things that they come out

and they show it off. And Zach in the chat room, Zach Knox, by the way, creates the incredible interactive draft scorecard, which you'll find in the show notes so you can score along with us next week, as well as a PDF version. But Jack mentioned game demo on stage.

I think moving forward, the only game demos are Apple Arcade game demos, right? Like that's how that's going to be. Like this is not the pick, but that's probably what will happen into the future. I don't know because like... Unless it's huge, unless they get like epic to come i think i think you make a good point which is that why if you're going to show off the gpu on the new iphone in the fall why not make it a developer who's developing that and it's going to be exclusive in apple arcade right i think

there's some there's something to be said for that uh we may get like an ar demo or something like that but even then they may they may try to have it be just Apple Arcade. But you're specifically saying something on stage. You say demo, so are we going to see a game demonstrated? Is that what we're measuring here? Not just mentioning Apple Arcade again, but demonstrating a game? I kind of mean just like showing it off a little bit, like not necessarily demoing a game,

but like it's going to get some time, right? That they're going to talk about Apple Arcade apple arcade they're gonna show off apple arcade like it's gonna be a part of the ios presentation basically okay apple arcade showed off yeah well we can debate whether it showed off or not if they mentioned that it exists and then move on i think maybe you don't get a point but if they if they go into some detail and brag about it a little bit then i think you got it yeah because. Yeah, because I think that they want to keep the services narrative going, right? Like just to keep refreshing people on it. And I think that it will be a part of iOS 13.

My concern about this pick is that this is the developer conference and Apple Arcade is invitation only. And I think you can spin that as being sort of like aspirational and talk to your app store contact if you've got an idea and all of those things well another thing from zach in the chat room during wwdc there are labs to pitch your game oh well there you go so i mean that that would be how they'd have to pitch it though because at the services narrative it's services event it's very much like the narrative is we have At the services event, it's very much like the narrative is we have hand-selected the finest of game developers. The cream of the crop.

Yeah, that's right. Only the five-star game developers. But then everybody else is like, oh, I make games. I want to be in the Apple Arcade. And so how you message that to developers. But that may be part of the conversation is like, what are we looking for? And come see us, and we're going to have a whole thing where you can go and pitch us on your game that you're developing.

But we don't want, and probably things like we don't want ideas, we want games. We want to see stuff. Yeah. Hey, it's another idea though why I think this could work in my favor.

Apple Arcade is not just an iOS. If they need things for the tvOS portion of the keynote, Apple Arcade might fit into that quite nicely right because what else are they going to put on tv os yeah i'm not really sure so that's our first two picks we have eight more picks to go as well as some bonus rounds at the end of the draft today so this feels like a fantastic time to take a break and thank our first sponsor of the episode

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One last time, Bombas dot com slash upgrade. Our thanks to Bombas for their support of this show and RelayFM. So we now move into pick number three. Jason, what you got? Oh, boy. I am going to go with, when in doubt doubt go with uh good rumor i say and not entirely wish casting but i think that it is uh an intriguing feature and so specific that it must actually exist which is a screen or window sharing feature between mac and ios this is the luna display like way of mac apps displaying on

ipads that i think is a wacky idea and yet the rumor is so specific that i kind of feel like it's got to be true so i i choose to believe the lie here i have yet to get my head around what i think this feature is actually going to look like like yeah because i i feel like there is a an awfully wide spectrum that apple could operate in here right whether they straight up do like what who are our next sponsor on today's episode luna display do which is like allowing you to completely mirror your screen. Or if you can just share an app at a time, like a window at a time,

or if there's actually no sharing going on at all and it's just a beefing up of continuity. Like, I feel like I don't know. Like, is it going to be Marzipan apps only? Is it going to be any type of app? Like, it is an intriguing idea and Apple have, in theory, the tools tools to do it but i have yet to really nail down and i don't and i don't think i will be able to like what do i actually think this

feature is going to look like i want to wait and see what they show me but what's the the what's the spin they put on it because i agree with you i think the question is i don't think that they're just going to knock off luna display right um i? I think as I do for most things that are features that are done by third parties and then Apple builds something is Apple's not trying to hit the edges. It's trying to do something that it thinks the masses will like. Because I still don't think that Apple are going to make a feature where they basically say your iPad is just a good display for your Mac. Right.

But I do think that they might say, you press this button or click, you know, command click or control click on this thing in the toolbar or whatever, and your Photoshop window is now on your iPad. I could see that. But then it's more like continuity, more like handoff, or it's more like a, you know, almost like a expose kind of thing where it's

this you know you're sending a window over there or it's like something completely new for marzipan apps it could be it's kind of none of those things right like it's like oh it's this thing that marzipan apps can do but it's such a specific thing that i feel like it's probably true and therefore i'm picking it and i can't wait to see what it actually is and i can go oh yeah that's the thing i picked i guess and we'll move on to see what it actually is. And I can go, oh yeah, that's the thing I picked, I guess. And we'll move on from there because it's a draft. But yeah, I feel like something that specific is probably true. So I'm going to trust in the report that there's something going on involving stuff shooting out of the Mac and landing on an iOS screen.

That's very, that's an image. screen that's a that's very uh that's a that's an image my third pick is multiple windows or instances of applications on the ipad okay this is a difficult one because no one can really decide what this rumor means right like we hear we've spoken about this so many times now. Tabs or side-by-sides or different pairs of multitasking. Who knows? We're going to know it when we see it. So the third round is the vague round is what you're saying. It seems like it. Who would have known?

But I think that this is basically what we're going to see is you will be able to have the same app in more than one place. And that could be either that an application can have multiple windows open and they look like split view now, or you can have an application in multiple places, like in multiple app pairs, and it doesn't break them down. Like apps can live in multiple places on iOS, on the iPad. So this is one of those things where like the wording of this one might not be what we see it, but when we see it, we'll know what it is,

if you know what I mean. So this feels like something that is inevitable. It feels like a feature that should have existed a long time ago. And it definitely feels like something that is more possible when you think about these applications also being on the Mac

where windowing is important, right? Like it's- Right. So it seems like that will be the time. This is one solution that handles how those apps behave on Marzipan on the Mac and allows them to enable features on iPad.

Yeah. Round four. Round four. Okay. them to enable features on ipad yeah round four round four okay um mike i want to win too and that's why i'm gonna pick more watch faces for watch os all right okay because what's watch os without new watch faces made by apple uh it's nothing there are always new watch faces made by apple we can be frustrated because they won't fix their old faces we can be frustrated because there are no third-party faces but if time has taught us anything it's that with every new release of watch os there are new apple designed watch faces and why should that why should time stop now time has been good for us so far so i think that will continue into uh the future and

yes i know this is boring but uh i think it's going to keep happening just endlessly yeah i guess the sub the sub pick is will apple show any watch faces that apple watch users want to use uh-huh uh that that's maybe a different good question yeah and we'll we'll guess we'll find out about that but i mean i would say that from what has been announced from like from bloomberg from mark german at bloomberg it doesn't really feel like there is a ton of stuff in there which is particularly useful rather than just being nice to look at a demo but right well i guess we'll wait and see about that one my my wish casting is that they are going to go through and actually update all their old faces to be good again um instead of leaving them kind of in their frozen state uh but that's we'll see they got so much criticism last

fall for what a uh lax approach to watch faces that apple has had. I hope they took that to heart, but who knows? We certainly haven't seen any reports that they did. So for my fourth pick, whilst the existence of Marzipan is not deemed draftable, there are a lot of picks in our list that are ramifications of Marzipan existing. So I'm going to be picking that Apple will bring more of their iOS apps to the Mac and that they will show them off. So I'm thinking here, podcasts, for example, right? That that is going to be an application that they bring over

and it looks just like the iOS app or whatever the new version of that is, right? So you're like sneaking in here because I have bulleted below it there are some specific apps but you're just saying we can go for specific apps but i'm just going for i'm going for the broad one okay that they will they will take they will on stage say hey this is an app of ours from ios and now it is running on the mac okay that's what i'm going with all right that i think that's i think the only tricky thing i think it's obviously going to happen i think the only tricky thing, I think it's obviously going to happen. I think the only tricky thing is whether they brag about it or not, but I think they probably will

because they were going to want to evangelize to developers. This is why I was thinking it. That we're eating our own dog food even more than we did last year when we had those four apps. There are even more apps that are more capable and you can make apps like this too using the same methods as us.

Yeah, okay. I could see that this isn't my pick but if we're going to add a little bit more color to it i think that they will show off an application that is more complex than the stuff that they did last year so they can show the range of these tools right because in theory apple need to show that any application can can work here right like that's kind of what they will want to show that any application can work here, right? Like that's kind of what they will want to show, right? Like you can bring any application,

no matter how big and strong your app is. And I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of surprise, right? Where they're like, oh, you know, this app that we're working on. Oh, like, you know, we have this application that is on iOS and on the Mac. Well, now we're just using the iOS code base, right? it would be like wow they must really believe in it if they're bringing calendar right you know what i mean like it's yeah you know what i mean where it's like they actually bring an important app or like notes or messages right like they're just like well messages is the

ios version now and that's that which and that actually makes a lot of sense that it would do that so i think that they will make a song and dance about some some kind some applications coming over and they'll probably be some important ones as well to kind of really show that um apple believe in these tools yeah i think that's a pretty good one pretty good pick pick five i'm gonna go with a non well no this this would probably be a marzipan app actually so it might be it might count as yours but it's new on mac and that is that is why i want to mention here is because it's not just that it's a marzipan demo but because apple has promised that there will be support for the tv service on the mac this fall and so i want to pick that they're going to show off, not necessarily demo, but show at the very least and mention.

There'll be some images on a slide. The new TV app on Mac OS, because it is something that, again, its existence is implied. But I think this will be an opportunity for them to show us that, yes, yes. Because this has been the question people have been asking is like, well, where's the TV app? Like there's iTunes on the network. There needs to be a TV app. You say that you're going to support TV in the fall. So where OS version. Although I wouldn't put it past them to actually also release it on Mojave, but it depends on Marzipan, right? They may not be able to. And that's fine. That's a motivator to get people to update.

Yeah, and again, it's like, obviously the Mac will really have some time to shine in the keynote this year, probably more than it has in many years, right? Like what will be considered in the macOS section is going to be a lot more beefy, I think, this year than it has been in some previous years. But they still need stuff to show as features

that Apple has made, and TV is one of them. It's an easy one to show. All right, so we're still in round five. My fifth pick is a redesigned Reminders app. This one has been rumored enough for me to feel like it's going to happen, especially because it is one of those things which feels seriously overdue that there would be some kind of update to Reminders. So we're going to see, I think, some big changes happening to the Reminders

app in iOS 13. Again, Jason, could be another candidate for Marzipan. It could be on the Mac, but also the idea that they, well, and they could talk about how they made all these changes and that they propagate to the Mac because the Mac version is going to also be Marzipan. They didn't need to build two different versions of the apps. I think that's going to be an interesting story, right? That Apple needed to take its team that was spending time building a Mac version of the app and they stopped. They don't need to anymore. They just build the Marzipan version and it goes everywhere.

I know that some people who use Reminders as a super simple Reminders app are a little concerned that it's going to get features and be complicated. My guess is that, again, that doesn't sound like Apple and that there will be ways to just use it in the most simple of modes but having a little more you can make it more complicated but it won't necessarily be if you don't want to use it that way like there's stuff you can do to tasks that you put in but they don't necessarily all need that if you know what i mean right like you can start putting due dates and projects and tags hopefully uh, but you don't need to. You can just run it the way that it has been. I would be super surprised if Apple made this app

more complicated for everyone that's currently using it because I expect quite a lot of people use it. I'm sure that they will come on stage and they will say, like, Reminders is the most used to-do application on iOS. In the world! In the world! Because it's the one that's built in.

So I hope that they make it better. Again, we spoke about this, but like they made notes better. I would love to see that for reminders. Alright, round six. Yep, okay. I think this is a little bit of a strategy kind of not draft strategy, Apple strategy

kind of pick, which is i feel like one of the things they do and they they've done this in the past when they talk about tv os look there's not a lot in tv os but you know what comes along with tv os is tv strategy and deals and that's why i'm going to pick that apple is going to announce some partnerships either for the tv service or for apple tv channels uh just because i feel like this is the place where they would do that and talk about how you know we're really happy to announce that now we've added blah blah blah to the channels lineup so i will say because you mentioned this you said this to me earlier it's the developer conference yeah i know and yet uh last i believe at multiple wDCs, they've talked in the tvOS portion about deals.

Or, I mean, you look at Apple Music. Because I'm not sure that they've got much more to say about tvOS, to be honest. So I feel like it's an opportunity for them to mention that these new channels are going to be, we already rolled them out on tvOS and now, but they're going to be better because we added some service that is not currently on there. And so I feel like, I don't even know what this would be, but I feel like I don't want to bet against Apple announcing some sort of TV-related partnership because they do that.

I'm struggling with this pick. I don't know if this is something that i'm saying because i want it or if i actually think it's gonna happen it's the classic draft conundrum like classic okay um refinements, redesigns to the iPad multitasking features. I don't really know how to class this. Because I don't think, if we say redesign, I don't think they're going to do what they did in iOS 12, or 11

I should say, where they just completely overhaul the whole thing. But I believe that we will look at iPad multitasking on iOS. And I'm focusing at iPad multitasking on iOS. And I'm focusing on iPad more than anything else. But we will look at the iPad, the way the iPad does multitasking, and be like, oh, that's different in some key ways.

So I think for the pick, I would say to iPad multitasking. Do you think that that seems fair? Yeah, I had this on my list very high and kept thinking about, do I want to go here? How will I redefine it? I went through everything that you went through. So I think that's a reasonable way of doing it. I just feel like if they're going to do the multiple window stuff, they do need to make some changes at least. multiple window stuff they do need to make some changes at least and also as well like i am very used to the multitasking system but it is not straightforward and i think that now everyone's lived with it for a couple of years i would really like to see apple say like we're

going to keep what we have but we have some new ways to make it a little bit easier to access that's what i would like to see you know um do you agree like that it's like we're used to it and it seems fine but it could be it could be better yeah and it may just be um federico's talked about this a lot like and you and gray talked about it like it may just be as simple as um the visual highlight of like where the keyboard control is or it may just be some keyboard shortcut additions or it may just be as simple as um the visual highlight of like where the keyboard control is or it may just be some keyboard shortcut additions or it may just be a little bit of like you said refinements a little tweaking of the rules or how it all works together it could be a wholesale uh change but uh but something i have a hard time believing they would leave it alone completely

after two years. Yeah. Because they didn't the last time, right? iOS 9 to iOS 11. Yeah. And you've got multiple windows and instances of apps on iPad also as a pick. So I think these may go together because how could you do one without the other? Yeah, exactly, right?

Like they kind of need each other. All right. So we're up to pick seven. But before we get to that, let me thank our second sponsor of this episode. And that is our friends, the wonderful people over at Luna Display. We were just talking about them a minute ago.

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thanks to lunar display for their support of this show and relay fm pick number seven jason what you got i i think it's gonna happen mike i think the thing that we've been dreaming about for all this time is finally going to come to pass and itunes is gone and dead and we don't have to worry about itunes anymore they've killed it they've murdered it they're going to replace it with something brand new and shiny and oh wait a second i'm wait what was that oh no word has reached these shores that instead what Apple is going to do is just rename iTunes to music and take out a bunch of features that they're going to move to Marzipan apps. But that's my pick. A quote new music app on the Mac.

So here's my question. Well, for this pick to count, are we looking at an app called music? Is that what we're looking for, basically? Yeah. Yeah? So there is an app called Music. Yeah, if they decide to do a Marzipan version of the music app on iOS and put that on the Mac, that would count.

But the rumor is strong that it's not that, and it is instead just iTunes kind of refactored. But either way, I'm saying, yes, the iTunes app brand goes away and we return to a music or we go to the music app branding that already exists on iOS. The death of iTunes, huh? Can we ever really kill it? I don't know, but it's slowly happening. So that's good. Yeah, I've been really wondering about this myself.

I know what the rumors are and i know what people are saying and etc etc but like i'm just wondering like is this really gonna like what is this gonna be like is it gonna be just as simple as this is the skeleton of itunes right like it just seems so strange to me to do that i mean you could ui wise you're just dropping out those extra features that you get to by going command 2, Command 3, Command 4, Command 5. You just pull those all out. Right. It may make it simpler.

But the Apple Music experience in iTunes, it sucks. It feels like you're using a web browser. Well, because you are. I know. It's fine. It's fine. I use iTunes and Apple Music every day, and I think it's fine. And I would probably choose it over the music app today just because of the functionality that I would lose.

But I do wonder in the long run if it makes sense for the music app to just be the Marzipan version. But I think if I'm Apple and I already had the iTunes team working, maybe there are some reasons like device syncing, they can keep that stuff in there to keep iTunes around. And maybe the argument was really just, look, we've got to bring all these other media apps over to the Mac. Why don't we just leave music where it is? It's fine. We're going to lose lots of features if we go, as we've all elaborated on various podcasts over the last month. If you just took the music app from iOS and put it on the Mac, you would lose a lot of functionality. And so a good product manager might end up deciding,

you know, let's leave it for now. We'll pull all this other stuff out. That'll be good for our app. And then it's got the existing functionality for music built in. We don't have to rebuild it. Let's just do that. So I think it may be a very pragmatic decision. Plus, it may have been a decision made earlier that, I don't know. I don't know. But I think either way, I think maybe we finally reached the point with Marzipan where they're going to sync up their media apps. And once you create sort of podcasts and TV, then maybe the iTunes app, it's time for it to get a new name, the music name, an icon from iOS. As we move into round seven, I'm now at the point where I'm rearranging my entire list

because I feel not confident in the picks that I made for myself earlier. So now I'm going to go with pick number seven, new health-focused watch apps. So Apple will introduce... Almost as good and tried and true as new watch faces. Yes. You know, I think it's very clear by now.

And I think for good reason. Apple is very aware of the fact that the Apple Watch is a health device for a lot of people. And even for people that don't consider it their health device, they use some of the health features on the device because it has all the sensors like it's good. We've heard rumors of some stuff and you know, like I like the idea of the medicine tracker and stuff like that and the menstruation tracking features. And if they can, they can have this stuff available to people and they'll give it a little brand naming and stuff like that. And it will be like exclusive to the Apple Watch. It's like a good reason to use the apple watch

fantastic right like you know i would say right that if they have really good pill tracking like i know that that's going to be something where i will look at it and be like oh man like i that's going to be a feature like just another little pebble for me being like oh that's going to be a feature, like, just another little pebble for me being, like, oh, that's something I want, right, but I don't wear an Apple Watch now, so I wouldn't have it, and then I would, do you know what I mean? It's like, it's one of, every time they just add these little pebbles in, it's like, oh, I actually quite like that, so I think, I think it would be really good. I, I would, I would, you know, I'd be very confident about the fact that there will be some kind of new health apps on the Apple Watch because you say it's

like what else are you going to do with it watch faces and health apps like that's that's the Apple Watch at its core at this point yeah yep yep absolutely all right so what you got yeah we're down to it now um

I am you know I'm gonna double down i'm gonna double down on the big one mike i'm gonna double down on the big one john syracuse are you out there are you listening apple display mentioned jason that might be too much my friend it's never too much mike i don't know it's exactly enough exactly enough okay okay right because because you'll say oh new mac pro what oh everybody's going wild and they're like but what are you gonna hook up to it apple display lasers I can see it. I can see it. I can smell it. Wow. Okay. Apple made display.

We're back in the Apple, because then they can show off the Mac Pro and the display. Well, I mean, it would be great, but I just don't know how much showing off they're going to do. Well, again, how much showing off do they need to do? They can acknowledge its existence. But they could also say it's an ultra-wide 31.5-inch HDR, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Don't, you know, get ready kind of thing. I think we'll see it. Every draft, there is a strong pick, and i think this might be it for this one i think that might be the the wildest one i'm not saying it won't come true but like there are lots of things still in our list that are much more conservative than the one i got two more i got two more so you never know It could get weirder. Final tap. I'm going to go... It's a shame, really, because I'm going so boring now because you just went so outlandish, but Mike wants to win.

Screen time on the Mac. Screen time on the Mac. That was going to be my next pick, so that's a very good pick. This is something... You mentioned this a few weeks ago, right? The idea of let's use this year is also a time to just bring more ios stuff to the mac again and and so screen time feels like a natural thing to move over for parental control stuff but also

to be able to give you a full picture on what you're doing with your devices right like people can be as addicted to a laptop as they can be a phone right like and if that's what you're doing with your devices, right? Like people can be as addicted to a laptop as they can be a phone, right? Like, and if that's what we're really trying to do here is to set this kind of stuff up, then let's see, let's see what that could look like. So screen time on the Mac, I would personally really like it, but I also think now's the time.

All right. Yeah, I agree. Peral controls on the Mac is not very good. And so rolling screen time in and hooking it all up together so that you can administer screen time for all devices. My kids have Macs and iOS devices. And the supervision interface is completely different and separate. And that needs to change. Whether it happens this year, the rumors are that it will

so great it should happen um it's it's something they need to do we have two more picks each it's true it's true um my next pick is going to be a little more conservative than the last one uh but i do have a well i don't have a spin on it i want you to visualize something mike i want you to visualize what podcasts are displayed in the screenshots when apple shows off the new mac version of the podcast app well who knows visualize upgrade visualize upgrade yeah anyway congratulations to This American Life and Serial for appearing in the demo of the new podcast app. And maybe, I don't know, that one about the serial killer in LA, Dirty John, is that the name of it? Which serial killer do you want to pick?

All the true crime podcasts. Congratulations to them for that. But yes, I do think kind of going with my pick about the music app on the Mac and your pick about showing off Marzipan apps, I feel like podcast is a great example of Apple pulling out functionality from iOS and giving it its own dedicated space on the Mac. It feels like a marketing feature now. Like, hey, podcasts, you like those, right? Right. More than ever now, podcasts is an actual thing that you can put into marketing and you love podcasts right don't wouldn't you love to listen to them when you're at work on your mac as well well we have a podcast app like as if as if podcast never existed on the mac before

it's probably how they're gonna sell this um so but i i would like genuinely i would like to see it uh i think it would be great to see a version of the Apple Podcasts app as its own thing, of its own icon on the Mac, right? Like it was important when that happened for iOS. It will be important when it happens for the Mac as well. So I would really like to see it. I have flip-flopped on this next one quite a lot because it feels like something that should happen.

It feels like something that would tick a lot of boxes from a few months ago, but still at the same time, I'm just not 100% sure if I believe it. External storage device support for iOS. Oh, wow. This is the most wishy of wish casting picks here. No, but here's the thing though. Let's make it happen.

Okay. Do we have the power to make it happen? To be honest now, I don't care about this this jason i would never use this feature right like you just want your co-host to stop uh talking about it don't you no just shut up just quiet here's the reason i want this because i want i've had reviews to stop talking about this all right see that well you know yep i get it because i really believe now i know that there are some people again like including federico because he does this but i know most of the people that complain about this this feature not existing when the ipad pro came out would never

use it anyway right it's true it's true i think it's a useful um representative feature of um the ipad pro reviews talking about how usb c is on them but they don't enable a lot of functionality because essentially there are no device drivers for them and built into the os it is wider than than the idea of just external storage right but people just categorize it as such but it's an it's an easy example like you can't plug in a thumb drive and so you know you got usbc but you can't plug in a thumb drive i think and that's why i would be um see this is where i am with this mic i would be shocked if apple didn't address this yeah because they got beaten up about this when the i've had pros came out and it's and the perception was this was a

feature that they delayed from last year and this is you know this was the problem is they got beaten up they did not get this thing in there and then the usbc ipads come out and everybody goes you can't treat them like usb devices because they don't do anything so i would be shocked if they don't address it just because they want like you they want to stop hearing about that that That said, I have been burned on this feature so... This feature should have been added to iOS five years ago, right? And so part of me says, there's a little voice inside my head that's saying, they're never going to do

it. Because they should have done it five years ago. But here we are, so I hope they finally do. I hope they were embarrassed enough by the iPad Pro reviews to finally actually add this feature that should have been there five years ago i do think though the change point for why it would happen now and not five years ago is usbc over lightning right i agree i agree that that that is a good plus you know a files app is more advanced than it was five years ago and all that

i i get it i get it now and i hope you're right it really just to we've said, if I want to just like double down on the point, right? Like that, even if this is something I didn't want to do, you just do it. So it just, just, just let's, let's move the narrative on from this one point. But also as well, it is, if you want to continue to show the iPad as a more professional device,

this is just like another checkbox that you can put on a list, right? Like the Apple could just be like, oh no, we do think of it as a tried and true full computer because you can plug a thumb drive into it if you want to and it's like a super boring thing but will it will make people happy even if they would never use it because now they know they can and it's available to them and that's great news all right here's my last regular pick mike desktop safari mode on ipad you know it's a little bit of an esoteric feature but i can see how they're going to pitch it on stage as a great ios feature for ipad which is you know essentially hey you've been using your ipad and then you've loaded a weird like cell phone version

and thought but i'm on this beautiful big screen Why am I viewing the cell phone version of this website? Well, now with iOS 13 Safari on iPad, you don't have to. There's a user pitch here, and I don't think this is going to be a major feature, but I think that this is going to be in their list of iPad features is that you can have Safari on iPad act more like a desktop browser and not like a mobile browser. So from a technical perspective, like in essence, what it's doing is you don't need to say request desktop mode anymore. Yeah, that's basically it. Or whether it's by default or whether you can set per site to load the desktop version

instead, there will be some detail there. But the overall version is that, yeah, you're going to be able to set safari to to on the ipad to act more like a desktop browser and not like a uh not like a mobile browser yep my hope would be that like this this idea is tied into something else right where it's like hey but you know how some some old websites don't even work with touch well now because you can use a cursor or now we've enabled additional features for the apple pencil that like help you get around that you know that kind of thing whilst we wait for the internet to catch up or could be something like that that would be nice i would like that um i really struggled with my last pick i was toying with just saying new animoji but i'm

not i'm not happy with that uh i just i'm not happy with what would it be we should that's what our draft should have been is the next animoji i think that they will continue to add more like every major version of ios like all the point releases they bring the animoji in them but i'm just i it just it doesn't feel right it doesn't feel like a good competition to say new animoji considering i already picked memoji so i'm gonna to go with new features in Mail because Mail needs new features. You know, like every third-party Mail app that exists today does stuff, right?

Like it has new features, features that are considered to be normal for email apps now, whether you use them or like them. Stuff like snoozing, right? That kind of stuff. Like having some kind of place where you can say, hey, this email is stuff. Like having some kind of place where you

can say, hey, this email is important. I want to get back to it later. And I think just little features like that will end up coming to either iOS, the Mac, both hopefully. But there will be some stuff that will be put in to try and make mail a little bit more with the current times. Because I think Mail needs it, to be honest. Especially on iOS, Mail needs some new features. So new features to Mail. I'm not going to specify where. I'm just going to say new features in Mail.

All right. Sounds good. That's the 10. That's 10. We have a bonus round. And then we've also got our things we didn't mention that we kind of wish we had. But before we do, considering we've now done the 10, this feels like a perfect time for a break. So we have our 10. So we have that extra point.

We have the tiebreaker. But that's the important part. We have our 10. How do you feel about your picks? You know, I don't know. What ends up happening is that I look at Zach Knox's report card later after we do this.

Yeah, I do this. And then I go, oh no. Like I've made a horrible mistake. That usually happens. Although sometimes not. I think the March one and then one of the ones last year, I remember going through and scoring it

and thinking, oh, I have a real advantage here over mike but then sometimes i do it and i go oh no i have not done well so going into the the tv event like i scored myself as winning like like before we began right like things things can change very quickly yeah but we both felt more confident about me last year until it happened yeah and then it's like oh these things that we thought were definite they're like the idea of bundles right like they don't need to talk about it because they're not talking about pricing yet right and if i don't think we necessarily considered that that would be a thing right that they just would not mention prices and because didn't mention prices, they didn't need to talk about bundles. So they just didn't talk about them. All right, let's take a break and thank ButcherBox for their support of

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so you can get some great stuff on how to cook the wonderful meat that they're sending to you. So, Jason, I think you've just recently got another ButcherBox. Oh, yeah. They keep on coming. I am a a butcher box subscriber at this point and uh yeah it's great they they are like you said they come vacuum sealed i actually have a an immersion cooker i have a sous vide machine basically and it's great for that because you can drop them right in um and cook them right in the in the package or you can thaw them and then,

you know, add marinade or whatever you need to do. And it's all very good. I like, we get the chicken thighs, we've gotten the tri-tip, some other kinds of steak, ground beef, you know, you name it. And it's actually a big part of our meal planning. It's really nice to have the meat in the freezer ready to be taken out because we aren't always, you know, it's like, oh no, we've run out of things from the store, but I always have the butcher box stuff so I can make something if I need to. It's great. You can celebrate the start of grilling season with one of ButcherBox's best deals ever. I love the ButcherBox deals. They're just, I just, they're just my favorite. So you can get right

now the ultimate barbecue bundle, absolutely free in your first butcher box, plus $20 off. Go to butcherbox.com slash upgrade or use the promo code upgrade to get it. The ultimate barbecue bundle includes two New York strip steaks, baby back ribs and two pounds of ground beef for free in your first box, plus $20 off that box as well. I mean, it's incredible. Go to butcherbox.com slash upgrade or use the promo code upgrade to get your hands on that wonderful deal. Our thanks to ButcherBox for their support of this show and RelayFM. I love their deals. It's just brilliant. It's just a bunch of free meat. All right. That's right. All right, Jason, do you want to tell everybody what you've picked as our special bonus round yeah i decided that for our bonus round which is worth a point if you get it right but

we both are picking the same thing and it is what will mac os be called that's what it is i'm happy to do this but consider myself at a great disadvantage because i do not know anything about national parks in california right whereas i've been uh i i'm born and uh it's not all down national parks it hasn't always been a national park or at least beautiful places in california right whereas i've been uh i i'm born and uh it's not all national parks it hasn't always been a national park or at least beautiful places in california live my entire life in california and so uh yeah but i made a list i made a list of a bunch of possible names do you see that list do you have that i see the list all right um and i am not gonna pick the one that i really kind of wish they call it, which is Mac OS 13.

Just sync it up. Stop. Stop with the place names. You stop with the cat name. Stop with the place names. Have everything be 13 and then move forward with that. But assuming that they keep going withave Desert because it allows them to do something like they did before where they went sort of, you know, Sierra, High Sierra, Yosemite, El Capitan.

It allows them to do Mojave and then something in the Mojave Desert, which is Joshua Tree. But I wrote a bunch of other things down. You can pick Macawess 13. You can pick Death Valley 13 you can pick death valley which i want to pick while hilarious is probably not a product name i want to pick it i think that uh if they do their little skit where they pick the name right i think death valley will be mentioned as like a wink wink nudge nudge the death of mac os um yeah but i don't think they'll pick it by the

way the uh the bad news about if it's mac os joshua tree is that there'll be a youtube album downloaded on it automatically so watch out for that yeah that's the problem name so and they could perform except they don't really have bands perform at wwdc so maybe not spinal tap i will point out by the way spinal tap update they uh played a concert for the first time in like a decade uh earlier this year and so spinal tap is still on the board somewhere for some performance someday so i have a i have a question for you because i do i just need a little bit of help right okay so i can understand a little bit about these these places so my expectation will be that they will do with this version of mac os what they've done in the past where they will pick a name that they can then next year pick a thing inside of that place so they've done in the past where they will pick a name that they

can then next year pick a thing inside of that place so they're not going so mojave is going to be a one-off and then they're going to go to something um something different oh wasn't oh okay they went from the sierras down to the mojave so sierra high sierra and then mojave all right so of the stuff that you've put in there, is anything in Mojave? Yeah. So other than Joshua Tree, so Death Alley is in the Mojave Desert. Sequoia National Park is kind of adjacent to it. It's on the mountains, like on the hills and the mountains on the other side.

Tehachapi is in there. Oh, come on. There are some other, like Bodie. Well, Tehachapi would be great because nobody could spell it or pronounce it. There's so many in this list that can't be easily spelled anyway, even like Mojave. Yeah, the one that I really like

is there's a little town in the desert on the eastern side of the Sierras called Bridgeport. And I love that because it's the bridge you see to the new apps. All right, I'm going with that one, Bridgeport. You're gonna go Bridgeport? Yeah, I'm going with Bridgeport. Yeah, you sold me on it. Look all right honestly i have no idea right like what i want it to be called death valley

because i think it would be hilarious i think hollywood would be hilarious too hollywood sure tahoe alcatraz mac os alcatraz your 32-bit apps are in jail uh tahoe was what i was going to choose when i was saying because tahoe is like that's a place of its own right yeah but but but i had forgotten that obviously mojave is the place and now we need to put the thing inside of it i think i don't i mean they could not do that this time and i think i think uh tahoe and sequoia are both very nice names that they could pick sequoia is again super difficult to spell i think tahoe it would would that would be my the other one i'll pick but i'm gonna go with bridgeport because

i think it's funny all right it's probably not going to be either of these things which is why it probably doesn't matter yeah but uh mac os 10 joshua tree sounds like a bit of a mouthful to me. It does. You know, let's root for Mac OS 13. Yeah. Solves everything. God, it would be great, wouldn't it? 13.0. I would just really like it if they just did that.

Or choose something that's not California place names. They can keep all the version numbers in lockstep, right? Then every time they do a release, it's like, oh, it's 13.01 over here and 13.01 over there. And they released them all. Instead, we got 10, 15, and 16. Really? Let's move it all. I would like them to move it all.

All right. We'll just wait until next year when it becomes Apple OS anyway, so we won't even need to worry about it. Okay. Okay. So we're going to do what we didn't pick rounds. So me and Jason, you know, we will this down to stuff that we think could be likely, and then we give our 10 picks from those,

but that usually will end up leaving us, if we're playing it correctly, with some extras, because naturally some of the stuff that I think is going to happen, Jason's going to pick. So do you want to give me a few instances of things that you think will happen or are likely to happen, but did not make it into your top 10? Yeah, the other items that I had on my list,

Siri shortcuts on the Mac mac which is rumored and uh kind of makes sense if you're bringing marzipan to the mac um the but but it's siri shortcuts so it's basically like really what it is is kind of customizable actions happening using siri triggers i feel like apple is more committed to siri on the mac than anyone else is but they are i think apple's more committed to siri on the mac than anyone else's but they are i think apple's more committed to siri on everything than anyone else's yeah yeah but siri on the mac is one of those things where you know i never use it but it's there and apple always talks about it and so why wouldn't they do something about this and it has been rumored so i'm going to put it on the list um update to messages this is my marza panification of

messages on the Mac that lets us do things like iMessage effects and things so we're not reduced to sent with lasers. We actually see the lasers on the Mac. That would be nice. So I was going to pick that. Again, not 100% sure on that, but I have hope that that will happen. And back to siri siri intense for developers this is like new ways for apps to uh to basically get controlled by siri without having to rely on siri shortcuts again we've been hoping that you could do that to control different music apps and podcast apps and it hasn't happened yet but maybe this year siri intense one is that i believe this will happen i don't know if it's going to find its way into the keynote

right like the idea is saying like oh now as a developer you can uh it's a developer feature though but this this i feel like this could sit very comfortably in the state of the union without it needing to be like you know talking about like oh if you're a media application you can now use siri to call up a library like you know i just i don't know i don't i have a gen general concern um that shortcuts won't make it into the keynote i don't know where this has come from but i just have this concern that like they won't mention it this year like stuff will be happening to it but it's not going to get time and so i i'm starting to actually think that like just a lot of serious stuff might not really find its way into the keynote i really want to be wrong

on this one i don't really know where this this fear is coming from but it's i think it's from just a general fear of people that have used this app for long enough right that it's going to die at any moment like i think i'm just getting that fear come back again right like there was always a fear that workflow could could go away and then when it got bought by apple that it would definitely go away and now shortcuts is here so now i'm scared shortcuts is going to go away even though i have absolutely no reason to believe it um so yeah but the idea just the siri intense stuff i think it will happen i just don't know if i see it in the keynote but we'll see uh swipe keyboard is one of mine so the ability to be able to swipe your finger across a keyboard and autocorrect does its magic and presents you with a word yeah it's a really nice feature that

has existed in other third-party keyboards for a long time um it is on my iphone because i use gboard that is the way that I pretty much always use typing. That's how I type. It is using the best of autocorrect, right? Like an autocorrect should be good enough at this point. And it's really easy to type this way with one hand when you have a big phone. I find it comfortable and I really like to use this feature. So I would like to see it into Apple's keyboard.

I can't imagine that it would make me move from Gboard. Like I just, for me, Gboard works really well. It has a lot of features that Apple still don't have, like the ability to search for emoji. And it's autocorrect, I find, to be more reliable than Apple's autocorrect. It doesn't suffer from those bugs that you see in Apple's autocorrect system,

where like, oh, now everyone's getting this. Like, for example, just a few weeks ago or a couple of months ago, if you type like, ha, ha, ha, ha, like all, you know, like, hey, che, hey, che, hey, che, like a bunch of times, like say you did it a bunch of times, it would split it into two separate ha, ha, ha, ha, which is super weird. People, I don't think, send that to each other. It looked very strange.

So, you know, like, but then everyone gets it. And it's just this, it's, I think it's with that differential privacy stuff right where like we spoke about this before there have been multiple software updates that we need like that have fixed autocorrect bugs which is just like the weirdest thing and i don't have those problems with gboard i also really like that i can search google from my keyboard which seems weird when you say it but if you need to send somebody an address to a restaurant and they're asking you in a text message you never need to leave messages to do that I don't know why this turned into a marketing pitch for Gboard

but I do really like it continued focus on performance improvements and stability I think it's going to get some time I think people were really happy with that on iOS 12 and I think just to continue and focus on we're going to get some time. I think people were really happy with that on iOS 12. And I think that just to continue and focus on like, we're going to do a bunch of stuff, and it's going to make your phone better in these ways, in this way, in this way, in this way, I think will be a big winner for people. So I think that that's going to continue. And also, some loosening some changing

of Mac App Store rules, this could be expansion of more entitlements, which is kind of some of the stuff that we saw last year. Maybe they make some business model changes to go hand in hand with the idea of bringing iOS apps to the Mac, right? But we're going to make it a little bit more comfortable

for you as a developer if you want to come on board, then these are some things that you could look to expect. And really to just try and make it more like a better proposition to developers who have maybe so far stayed away from it. Yep, sounds good. So is that where we are?

I think so. I think we'll let reality be our judge now. All right. Now, believe it or not, there was some new MacBook Pros released last week. Also true. Before we round out today's episode i want to talk about that so but first let me thank our final sponsor and that is text expander from our friends

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So, Jason, can you tell me what happened with the MacBook Pro last week? Well, it got updated. What does that mean? The 15-inch got the 9th generation Intel processors going all the way up to 8 cores. 6 or 8 cores.

So if you really want the most possible multi-core performance on an Apple laptop, that 15-inch MacBook Pro will let you get there with eight cores. And there were some minor speed bumps to the 13-inch Touch Bar model. These are just the Touch Bar models. The MacBook Escape model remains a product in Apple's lineup that hasn't been updated in two years. And yeah, so that happened. It's just a little minor thing but it's nice for people who are looking for a more powerful macbook pro um but of course everybody really wants to

talk about the keyboards yep and apple has acknowledged that and so so yeah i talked to apple and and they acknowledged that they made a materials change to the keyboard and that they felt like it directly addressed to the keyboard and that they felt like it directly addressed to the problem of that they were getting of which of course they always uh they want to say um now the vast majority of apple customers have no problems with the keyboard but we've made like the third fourth or fifth revision to this keyboard but who's counting so you know again the vast majority and yet they know there's a? So, you know, again, the vast majority, and yet they know there's a problem here. And they know there's at the very least a perception problem. And who

knows how big the reality problem is for them. And so they have made another materials change. It sounds like they've maybe changed the material, the silicone material that's supposed to prevent kind of ingress of debris. Yeah, that's what iFixit found i think that they changed it to nylon and they've changed the um according to iFixit's analysis they they seem to have changed the uh the switch itself right the uh the dome to something different which is a lot of people had been speculating that the dome switch might have actually been the issue um and not the ingress protection but what apple would say is they believe that this dramatically improves the ability of the keyboard to resist the problem of missing keys or doubled keys.

And in addition to that, because they are fighting a perception problem here, they extended their keyboard program, which was previously on the 2015 and 2016 and 2017 models with a butterfly keyboard to cover all the 2018 and 2019 models. So basically, if your Apple laptop has this butterfly keyboard in any of its versions, you get free service on the keyboard from Apple for four years from purchase, which is not a bad bit of insurance on that keyboard. Yeah, because that's like no AppleCare needed, right? Right. If you're worried about the keyboard for the first four years, yes, Apple's going to cover

you. And I've seen people say, oh, well, it's a real endorsement of the quality of this keyboard that they're covering on an extended repair program, their brand new keyboard. So that must mean that it's also got the problem. And I mean, people can be as cynical as they want to be. That's not why they did it. They did it because they want to reassure people that although they have made this change that they think solves the problem, they don't want people to be like, does it really solve the problem? They want to come right out and say, look, we stand by this. We will fix it for four years if you buy this keyboard, regardless of that. And I think that the clarity of saying,

it doesn't matter which version you've even got. You got four years of coverage from us. And by the way, in a story that we've been talking about for a little while now, reports about how Apple has made a bunch of changes to get keyboard repairs to be expedited like doing more of them in the stores and having the turnaround be faster because that's been a part of the complaint too is it's not just taking it into the store it's taking to the store and then losing your computer for an extended period of time while they fix your keyboard and the um so they've turned that around a lot of people wouldn't take them in even if there's a problem and then it only exacerbates the problem and your opinion of that issue right

like yes and if you're not near a service provider or an apple store it's hard but even if you are if they're backed up and it's going to take days or a week or whatever you're without your computer that's that's no good so all of that is in there and then there was another little i'm wondering if i should take mine in are you having a problem with it otherwise well i have marcos do you remember like the original macbook pro with the with the e-key that broke i i own that computer that that's the concern is i don't even know if i could because i bought it from him maybe well i think you could i think you could but it's original retail purchase for four years so if it's within the four-year window you you could take it in.

I have no idea. I have no idea. Just ask Marco when he bought it. Yeah. So yeah, this is all going on. And the other piece is that if you've got a laptop from 2018, apparently, if you take that in to be repaired, they will replace it with the 2019 keyboard that's on these new laptops. That apparently is is apple says is better they can't swap out the older ones but they can swap out those so like if i had a problem

one of the macbook airs that i've got in the house from 2018 and i took that into my local apple store it would get replaced with the same keyboard that's in these macbook pros which is great and there's a part of me that doesn't want to get my keyboard fixed. Like I feel like I own a piece of podcasting history, right? Like the keyboard that started Marco's hate of the keyboard. As Zach points out in the chat room, that model didn't come out four years ago. So it's covered just by definition.

I need to make a decision. So yeah, I mean, they may laugh at you and be like, why do you have the American MacBook Pro? But I bet you they'll cover it if it's got keyboard problems. So you might want to do that before it becomes four years old and is not covered anymore. To be honest, I don't even know if it's worth the aggravation. I use it three or four times a year.

It's like, we will be recording next week's episode of Upgrade using that very MacBook Pro. But outside of that, it doesn't get used a lot. We'll see. Before we wrap up today, I wanted to make a little announcement. RelayFM turns five in August, and we're going to be doing a special live show to celebrate,

which is going to be in San Francisco. It's going to be on August the 22nd. RelayFM's fifth birthday will be August 18th. On August the 22nd, we're going to be in San Francisco. It's going to be on August the 22nd. Relay FM's fifth birthday will be August 18th. But on August the 22nd, we're going to be hosting a show. We're going to try and make it the biggest and bestest live show that Relay FM has ever done.

We're going to be bringing in as many of our wonderful hosts as we possibly can, having them involved in the show. Jason's going to be there. Yeah, I mean, I live here, so sure. It's easy for you i can show up um but yeah we're really really excited about this we found a wonderful uh venue that we're going to be hosting the show in so it's going to be in august 22nd in san francisco tickets are available um but they're selling that we will sell

out so if you if you do want to be at the show i'd recommend it and we're going to do everything we can to make it um as good or better than any live show we've ever done before. Because it's a big one. It's a really, really big one for us. I will cry. So if you want to see me cry on stage, come buy a ticket. But yeah, that's going to be pretty

incredible to celebrate our fifth anniversary with a bunch of amazing listeners and a lot of our hosts. So I'm really, really excited about that. But in the meantime, next week, WWDC. So Jason, Jason's going to be front and center. Maybe not front and center, but he's going to be

right there at the keynote and we'll be recording and releasing our episode as soon as we can after the keynote ends. As is tradition, we want to be right there for you within a few hours and we'll do everything we can, um, to get our episode out. Um, if you want to record, listen into us recording live, we'll be, we'll be again,

attempting our very best hotel wifi permitting to live stream the episode. Um, so you should, uh, follow the upgrade Twitter account, which is underscore upgrade FM. And I'll put a link to that in the show notes in case you're not following already because we'll be tweeting out from there when we're going to be going live um i'm i'm really excited i feel like it's going to be a big year i feel like we're going to have a lot to talk about next week yeah yeah it's going to be huge it's the just the marzipan thing alone is going to be huge and they're going to be ios announcements probably ipad announcements there's going to be a lot for us to talk about it's gonna be a big show yeah i feel like ramifications wise this is going

to be bigger than last year right and it'll reverberate into the episode after that and you know it'll go on and on and on but it'll be a big big episode next week if you're in san jose we hope to see you there uh if you don't have tickets to the relay fm live show on wednesday there is like 10 left so if you want to come and see the live show, which I really recommend that you do because it will be great, you should do that. I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well.

But I think that's it, Jason Snell. We're going to be together next week. Next week. It's hard to believe. I'm going to make that the short walk across the street. Don't walk. And a few crosswalks.

How would it? No, no, from the keynote to the hotel. That's sort of our thing. As we go from the keynote to your hotel high above San Jose. And I will... We'll have to plan our lunch order.

You know, like our tacos or whatever we're going to get. We'll work all of that out. Very, very excited. Can't wait to be in San Jose. Sunny San Jose it looks like it's going to be as well. I'm so excited about all of that out. Very, very excited. Can't wait to be in San Jose. Sunny San Jose it looks like it's going to be as well. I'm so excited about all of that. But we'll be back next time. Thank you so much for tuning in

to the fourth annual WWDC keynote draft. We'll find out who the winner is. Will Mike keep his streak of WWDC going? Or will he lose it as soon as he learned that it existed? You'll find out next time thank you so much to our sponsors the wonderful

people at ButcherBox, TextExpander Lunar Display and Bombast Jason where should people go to keep up with your coverage over WWDC week well that's great you can go to sixcolors.com you can follow bleed six colors which is the six colors twitter account or for

special events we have have Six Colors event on Twitter, and I'll probably post some thoughts there from the keynote. Wonderful. All right, if you want to find Jason and Lanny's at jsnl, J-S-N-E-L-L, I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. You can find links and information about this episode over at relay.fm slash upgrade slash 247. That's where you'll also find both a PDF and interactive scorecard for the draft so you can score along with us and make sure that you tweet us

the way that you scored it. I always love to see those rolling in as the keynote goes through. And we'll be back next time for the biggest episode of the year recorded live in San Jose, California. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.