Upgrade - 262: The Skyscrapers of Camera Bump City

Episode Date: September 11, 2019

Jason has returned from Cupertino, where he watched Apple unveil the new iPhone 11 models, a new Apple Watch that adds a feature we had given up hope of ever seeing, and details about when we'll see Apple Arcade and Apple TV+. We break down the product marketing, new camera features, surprises, and the shocking results of the 2019 Apple iPhone Event Draft.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 262 today's show is brought to you by pingdom mail route and moo my name is mike hurley and i am joined by jason snell fresh from the steve jobs theater at apple park hi jason s Hi. I still have a cloud of Cupertino pollen. I don't know. Dust. Something all around me. I'm back from the lovely Apple Park campus

and the Steve Jobs Theatre. And I'm here at Mega Office HQ. I've been digesting all the information possible. Yes. You probably know way more than me. That's how it tends to be. We're going to do our best to break down the news of today, which was the 2019 iPhone and more keynote.

But I want to start off with a hashtag snow talk question. I want to hijack snow talk again, because I just have a very quick question that I want to ask you to get it out of the way. Overall, what were your thoughts on this event? The general consensus from people that I pay attention to online is that it was a bad or disappointing event. And I want to know what you think. I think, well, first off, we knew this was going to be an iterative product cycle for Apple. So I think disappointing

i don't know i think it was weird that it ended with 20 minutes to go and i really was expecting there to be kind of a one more thing at the end that they were they had saved something because we were so far ahead on time and i just thought there's got to be something that's not in this we're in the iphone already like there's got to be something and it wasn't anything that was the end so that was that was weird um i was legitimately surprised by some of the things that happened in the event, which I think is rare and good. And, you know, a lot of it wasn't a surprise, though. The bottom line is we know a lot of this stuff. The main event is the iPhone. And the iPhone was in many ways the least interesting update to the iPhone,

although I think there were interesting aspects to it as a product. It's yet another in the line of the iPhone X, essentially. So for me, I guess what I would say is I'm intrigued by the idea of getting Apple Arcade out of the way first in that one of the things that I like the least about any Apple event is interminable game demos. And I thought it was interesting that they put them up front instead of in the iPhone section. And I thought, well, I don't like game demos. And there are three of them here. And it feels like filler and I find them boring. I understand why they do them. And they get two reasons to do them now because they want to show off iOS as a gaming platform and show off their new service but they are like death the second one is kind of like death the third one is always just come on please and then in the midst of the iphone presentation they did another game which

was the worst one it was the most boring game yeah and that was the moment when my soul briefly left my body yeah but i don't know. It's an Apple product event. They aren't the most explosive products. I don't know if I would go so far as to say it was bad. But it was, I mean, for your iPhone event, and Tim was like, I'm going to dispense with my updates. But then they did a retail update at the end, which was weird in terms of the sequencing. But I understand why they did it, because it has something something to do with apple watch series 5 but that was a little bit strange and so you kind of end ended the shape of it was kind of weird so there's a

lot of good stuff in it i thought but it was short surprisingly which made me feel like uh you know when you think what all got announced it's more more than we expected, but it still felt kind of light for probably some good reasons. So, I don't know. It was not their best event, but, you know, in the end, Apple is not in the business of putting on a great show every September for everybody to watch live and be excited about. They're in the business of selling lots of iPhones. So, you know, that's what it's for. I actually really enjoyed this event. Like you, I was surprised in a bunch of places.

I thought it was well-paced. I liked the variance of the people they had on stage. It brought different energies. I thought it exceeded my expectations for what this event could have been. So that's probably true. Other than, other than that,

I was hoping that we would get that like a tire, the tile like tracker as a one more thing. And that would have been a fun new product. And there was no fun new product, right? It was all just iterations on existing products. I would have been kind of annoyed if they would have burst out the one more thing line for a product like that. Yeah.

Yeah, I suppose so. But I just, I would have liked to for a product like that. Yeah, I suppose so. But I would have liked to have seen something like that. I'll tell you, though, I think this is telling, Mike. When you say it was kind of surprising, and that is a good thing. We'll go into our draft results here in a minute. But I wasn't keeping score while I was watching, other than being crestfallen that we weren't going to get a shot of an

Apple store on a slide, which, um, and, and, uh, at the end, I was quite surprised to see how many things I had gotten right because

draft draft aside, leaving that aside, my mental model, my, that virtual keynote I build in my head, did not conform to this at all. No, no. Also, Johnny Ive was smiling but not standing up in my mental keynote, and that didn't happen. The big thing that you were talking about, the Apple Watch, like your big kind of idea for the Apple Watch this year was, I mean, couldn't have been more wrong.

But we'll get to that later on. Could not have been more wrong. We'll get to that later on not have been more wrong and i feel like i feel like one one of the things that happens when we predict these things is after a while we get tired of predicting things that are favorite features of ours because we're like you know what i must just be wish cat wish casting this thing and then you get down on yourself and you're like that's never going to happen and guess what one of those things happened this time quite literally said on the last episode we give have given up on that feature

but we'll get to that later on because we should address the scoring of the draft um so on our previous episode in case you didn't catch it me and jason we make our predictions for uh apple keynotes in the forms of drafts so you know we could each make our predictions we do it as a competition and only one of us can get a point for a specific thing. Now, you beat me again. So you have won the year now, unless Apple does three more events between now and the end of the year. Congratulations to you.

Thank you. As is usual with me, I doubled down on a specific area that I thought Apple TV and Apple TV Plus was going to get more time than it did. So and that kind of destroyed me because I lost three points on that, basically. So in essence, this is how I scored you. I scored you as either 8.5 or 9.6.

New range of iPhone colors, no 3D touch, haaptic Touch mentioned, new Apple Watch materials, iPhone XR has a second camera, Apple TV Plus clearer launch timeframe, new iOS features coming later this year, new Apple Watch faces shown, an Apple retail slide of a photo of a newly opened flagship store. You got all of those points right for me. You didn't get a Spinal Tap reference. Can I drill down on a couple of those now?

Let me just say what I've struggled to score, which is updated TrueDepth hardware. Now, in the interactive scorecard that Zach put in, he's put camera in. And technically, the camera was changed, but we weren't talking about the camera, right? We were talking about Face ID sensors. Okay, so first off, that's not true.

I was picking the true depth system which includes the face it includes all of that stuff it's the sensor bar and what they did was they made a wider angle selfie camera which totally counts okay well this is this was the point that i didn't score you on because i figured you'd say that and then you'd get your point. I wanted to ask you though, what new iOS feature is coming, quote, later this year? The sneak peek deep fusion photo thing. Oh, was that a later this year? I missed that. Oh, okay.

And I think a lot of people wouldn't have scored you that point, but it is an iOS feature. All right, it wasn't an iOS 13 feature, but that wasn't the pick you made. So it was just that new iOS feature. All right, it wasn't an iOS 13 feature, but that wasn't the pick you made. So it was just that new iOS feature. Something will be deferred. And then you're going to give me the...

I mean, Stephen Hackett made the point that the newly opened flagship store, that Apple Fifth Avenue is not a new store, but it was closed for a long time. It will be newly opened. And they're really reopening it. And it is the flagship of all flagships. I give you that one. It will be newly opened. And they're really reopening it. And it is the flagship-y of all flagships. I give you that one.

I give you that one. All right. And then the tiebreaker was there were 10 total color options. So I would have won the tiebreaker too. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have gone for 10. But anyway, I gave myself wide-angle lens on the iPhone, Apple Arcade pricing and clearer launch time frame, iPhone XR replacement, naming iPhone 11 and iPhone Pro, low-light mode for photography,

iPhone XR keeps its LCD. I missed out on a demo of the Apple Watch App Store, Disney Plus being mentioned, new Apple TV Plus content deals being announced, and the Apple TV app being mentioned on other platforms. Didn't score myself on demo of Apple Arcade. I don't think I got it, but everybody else is telling me that I should have got it. I think you got it. I had you down for that one. Alright, so let's say that the official score to the end is 9.6 to you. Yep.

Congratulations, you did really good on this one. Like I said, I had no expectation of that when I left the room. We never do. Well, not when I left the room. I will be honest because there's usually a really big backup at the tables where everybody's demoing stuff. And last year I got caught up in the backup and I had to wait for a little while and all of that. This time when it was all over and the lights were up, the first thing I did, I loaded Zach's interactive scorecard and scored myself.

And I could not believe, could not believe that I did the first thing I did, I loaded Zach's interactive scorecard and scored myself, and I could not believe could not believe that I did as well as I did, because like I said, my impression was this did not go at all as I expected. But once again, I made some bets on something we thought would be a lock, right? That Apple TV Plus would get a ton of time, and

it kind of didn't, which was a surprise. Alright, so before we move on, this September you can join RelayFM in support of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital during September in honor of Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Worldwide, more than 90% of children with cancer live in low- and middle-income countries, many lacking access to adequate diagnosis and treatment, causing many of them to die before reaching adulthood. Thank you. you to every Real AFM listener who has gotten us to 68% of our funding goal already. We have raised over $51,000 for St. Jude, which is an incredible number. We want to reach $75,000 at least. We're about to spend about two hours now talking about products that begin at $699 and up into four figures. If you are going to buy any of those products, throw a little money towards St. Jude. They do an incredible thing there. Please, I ask you to do that. Stjude.org slash pineapple, and you can do that. And we're also going to be

hoping, I hope that we hit our goal of $ 000 before september 20th which is new iphone day me and steven hackett are going to be streaming live on twitch a six hour podcast from 4 to 10 p.m eastern from saint jude's campus in memphis tennessee jason's gonna be new iphone day of all things too yeah i will be involved in some way to be involved. A new iPhone day. A new iPhone day of all things. Yeah, I will be involved in some way to be determined. I will be videoing in and who knows what will happen. I think that's the question we're all asking ourselves is what will happen during this six hour podcast-a-thon. Me and Stephen have a bunch of ideas of things we want to do. We needed to wait for today to happen to know exactly what we can and can't do. Because now it's an iPhone day. well that has opened us up to having iphones to unbox on the stream so there's going to be a bunch of stuff we have a ton of really wild things the saint jude team who we're working

with directly the the fundraising arm have been really amazing and they have some fantastic ideas and they are indulging me in my insanity and stupidity so So I am very excited. So you can find a link in the show notes to a Twitch event page where you can sign up to be informed about when the event is going live and also to find out when this event is happening in your local time zone. So we're really excited about that September 20th. You can't forget that date if you're a fan of Apple. And now you have another reason I would say an even more important reason to be paying attention on that day. Depending where you are,

you could watch us while you're waiting for your iPhone to come in. That's right. We also, a couple of weeks ago, we had a big live show to celebrate RelayFM's fifth anniversary where we played Family Feud. This event was actually video recorded,

and a video version of this podcast has now been posted to the relay fm youtube channel there is a link in the show notes for that as well even if you have heard the relay fm family feud i recommend going back to watch it so it's a lot of fun yes and who knows perhaps if we had any survey questions left over from that event we might find some use for them imagine if there was a whole fourth round what if it was a six hour block to fill perhaps even something as dumb as that might be used who knows who knows jason i want to talk about this event by first talking about what was missing oh nice and i

have broken this down into two categories the bloomberg category and the 9to5Mac category of rumors that I think a lot of us have considered were definitely true, but are not true because of either the way that they were being reported or how much they were being reported or who they were being reported by. So a couple of Bloomberg rumors that we've spoken about in depth. And of course, both Bloomberg and 9to5 got a lot of things right, but there were things that they got wrong as well. And I want to talk about them. There was no software feature for altering images after the fact that we have seen. If Apple has it, they've not demoed it, which seems weird. And this is the idea of taking a photo and then being able to pan around and bring somebody else in or change the aspect ratio in some way from the regular um wide angle lens

to the ultra wide right you remember talking about that yeah that that's sort of true actually oh um if you it's off by default but you can turn it on if you take a picture with the what they call the wide angle lens um and then you edit it in the photos app well you have the ability to crop and crop outside and it's actually using data from the ultra wide so you can do that and after a while it gets discarded if you don't edit it if you edit it at all that data will ride along with the rest of the photo i think forever thank you very much for that information because that must have been something that I assume you found out in the hands-on area. It is. I got a lot of information about that. The camera app.

So let me tell you, as somebody who writes a book about photos, I had that moment where I'm like, I can't write any more about this because they're going to release new iPhones, and there's going to be new photo features, and it's going to break everything that I've already written. And that totally happened, because that camera app has all sorts of things in it that weren't in it before and some little tweaks in the uh in the photos app as well but that's one of the examples where by default i think it shoots the video at both wide and ultra wide so that you can crop it wider and you can turn on that feature for stills it's uh it's pretty

wacky pretty pretty wacky that seems like something to demo but they didn't the only thing i guess the thing that that is the indicator of it is that you do have the sometimes you see what's on the wide angle the ultra wide in the camera app yeah on the sides of the viewfinder but yes you can actually get you can actually use that stuff and it's it's compositing yeah on the sides of the viewfinder but yes you can actually get you can actually use that stuff and it's it's compositing it on the fly so that you can pull in data from outside and crop outside the uh the photo area then i would like to apologize to bloomberg for that but one that i will bring them out on and ming chi kuo is in this is too no reverse wireless charging yeah so the idea of being able to charge your AirPods from the back of the phone, not there.

This popped up on Twitter yesterday or the day before, and it sounds like their feeling is that this was a late removal, that it didn't work to Apple's satisfaction. And I wonder if there will be any teardown investigation to see if there's actually hardware that was intended to do that that's in here, but they weren't happy with it, so they turned it off. Or like a space where that hardware would have been. You know, like you'd be like, oh, clearly they were supposed to put a coil here. It sounds like a late removal of that feature. And this makes me bring the question of, what is wrong with Apple and wireless charging? Like, they can't get it right? Like, what is going on? It's harder than it seems or their standards in this case it may simply be that their standards are

higher sorry yeah harder for apple other companies do it and then nine to five mac no apple watch sleep tracking this is a big report from them last week yeah that surprises me that surprises me and also there is no tile-like device. So this idea of something you would drop in a bag and would be able to track. However, there's probably another event coming down the road. And so here's the thing that we know about these new iPhones. And you may think, that's a weird feature. Why are they even talking about that?

There's this new U1 chip, which did not come up in the keynote, right? Which is ultra-wideband, which is this new, it's like better than Bluetooth LE, is basically what it is. And it's got very specific location finding within 10 centimeters, which is what, four inches? You can find an object

directionally which goes with all those rumors about how find my will be able to put like a little balloon right where your lost object is and that's because ultra wide band among other things like possibly being the future of nfc of possibly being you know how cars you know future fob you know a little key fob car lock things work. Like ultra wideband has a lot of interesting uses. And part of the reason is that it allows you to do this directionality. So like your car doesn't unlock unless you are physically right outside the door because it can tell that you are in a particular location within four inches. So this is in the new iPhones.

inches. So this is in the new iPhones. And what they say is like, oh, it means that you can do airdrop and you can see somebody who's closer to you or who you're pointing your phone at, and they become like your default airdrop. And it's like, this is great because the iPhone 11 can find another iPhone 11 and nothing else. And I will tell you, the secret is, ultra-wideband is going to be in that tracker whenever they ship it. And that's why it's in there. That's why, at least the first, I think there are lots of uses coming up

in the future for ultra-wideband. I do think that it's got its attack with a lot of potential. The problem is, it's kind of not for anything right now. Is they're going to use it for AirDrop? That's what Apple have announced so far on the product pages. Seems like a waste of now. Is they're going to use it for AirDrop? That's what Apple have announced so far on the product pages.

Seems like a waste of time. But it's going to be, it's also going to be for that tracker if it ever happens. And I would say it's also presumably going to be for Find My, so that if you've got an iPhone that's lost, it will work similarly where you will, you know, people will see it. I'm sure it'll find its way into AirPods too. Yeah. I think if this ultra wideband stuff really works as well as it sounds like it does, I think eventually it'll go anywhere, everywhere, because imagine having that level of precision

that any Apple device that's within, you know, a few yards, if not more, you know, 50 feet or something like that, and you can get precise information about where that object is. So I think the U1 chip is the suggestion that there is probably an Apple tracker coming, but not today. Yep. Not to say it won't happen, but these were the things that I think everybody decided were happening today and some of them didn't happen. So there we go. All right, let's take our first break. And then we're going to talk about the iPhone because we do things in our own order around here at Upgrade. your business from expensive spam, viruses, malware, ransomware, and downtime. From a server in your garage to clusters in high-tech data centers to Office 365 and G Suite, MailRoute believes in cloud services. They created one of the first in 1997 and have been innovating their industry ever since. Given their authority in email security and cloud services, MailRoute now

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and we're going to talk about them and see if we can try and answer them by the end. These two questions are, is the iPhone 11 truly the phone for most people? And is the iPhone 11 11 truly the phone for most people and is the iphone 11 pro really pro enough how much pro could it be mike any more pro than that uh so those these are the two questions that i have to ask um and we're gonna keep those in mind as we go through some stuff here i think we have to start with a name though they did it promax iphone 11 pro and iphone 11 promax get pumped with promax they really did it didn't they they did it and schiller said it's a device pros can count on to get their work done i wrote that down myself i don't know what that

means um yeah well i i i do i do it's all right i think the pro name like i'm surprised that they spent as much time on it that schiller spent as much time on it as he did like he acknowledged on stage that this is the first iphone that they've had a pro name on and what does it mean and what are pros i think what they showed in their demos is that they at least one pro example here is that you can give this to professional photographers and you can get this to directors and cinematographers and they can do their work on this device. Here's my question that I have. How like if you remove what the actual lenses give, how far could those same people have gotten with the 10s max well i think the argument is that the 10s max is was a pro in everything but name and the 10 was a pro in everything but name i think what what's really happening here is that you know we can we can

overanalyze this pro is a word apple uses to say to to mean high end and um what what the the marketing pivot that schiller is doing on stage there is saying essentially this is a phone so powerful with so many great features that the pros can use it to do these amazing things and you can have it. That's the marketing move that's happening there. It's for people who want to pay to get the very best, to feel like you could shoot a movie on this. I'm not personally going to shoot a movie on this, a feature film,

but you could because it's the best. And that's really the appeal of pro in a lot of categories is it's code for the best because the pros, of course, would buy the best. They're going to pay for the best. We used to have this term that has fallen out of vogue, which is fine, called prosumer. But the idea of the prosumer is literally it's somebody who's not a pro but wants to use pro stuff because they want the best. And they're willing to pay more than they probably need to because they want the best that's available. And that's what's going on with the pro name. Not only is it just coded in everything Apple does,

that pro means high end, but it's got this underlying meaning, which is that the pros can use this stuff. It's like the best you can buy and you're not a pro but you can still buy it and feel good that you've got that awesome camera too even if you never download filmic pro and shoot you know in from a steadicam rig a feature film because you're never going to do that but you could because it's pro hardware and i don't mean i'm not trying to like take shots here but like there is also a part of me that thinks like it is also maybe in a way kind of accepting that the only people that can really easily afford this device at least to buy outright are those that can write it off as a tax expense i mean maybe but it's again it's it's

there's a lot of stuff going on there is it a business expense is this that this is how you prioritize your income is i want to i want to get the new hot iphone every year every other year whatever it is like whoever those buyers are who are coming for that but you know what i like about this is that it places one of the challenges with the iPhone 10 is that it placed the spotlight on the thousand dollar and up phone as the definitive iPhone. And the most work Apple did in this event by far was repositioning the cheaper phone as the iPhone. That's what they're doing. So what they do is it's two things. It's, first off, this is the iPhone 11.

This is. This thing that they never said is like the XR, even though we know that it's basically an updated XR. No, this is the iPhone 11. And it's basically an updated XR. No, this is the iPhone 11, and it's $699, which is $50 down from what the XR cost. They never should have called the iPhone X the iPhone X. They never should have called it that.

It should have had a different name, and they would have made things way easier for themselves. It should have been the iPhone Pro even back then, right? But I think they just couldn't resist the X. They can't resist the X! I think they were trying to differentiate it in some way by giving it that Roman numeral. But then by calling it X, they should have just called it iPhone X, right? Like, and then just, I think a lot of this stuff would have been easier for them.

I think a lot of the, anyway, but this is, it's too much tea reading at that point. What you've said there has made me think, like, as I've been thinking, I think the 11 and the Pro, they are closer than I would have thought they would be. Yeah, I mean... I was maybe expecting for them to... I mean, really, the screen remains the biggest difference

between the two, because a lot of the internals are the same. Yeah, I mean, the materials are a little different, the screen is different, I mean, the materials are a little different. The screen is different. And the third camera, which is the telephoto, not the ultrawide. Huh? Well, that was a big surprise. That was a big surprise to me.

But anyway, in terms of overall marketing, this is the heavy lifting that they're doing. They want to say, you know the iphone is not a thousand dollar phone the iphone is a seven hundred dollar phone and then it goes up from there and there's a pro model where you're paying for uh i wrote it down for our customers who want the most sophisticated tech that really pushes the limits that's how they're positioning the 11 pro and uh and then within that they're they're talking about cameras at the center of all the positioning of it which i think is also interesting but this is their this

is their thing this is their message that they want out there is these colorful two camera powerful 699 phones are the iphone and then there's also the high-end phone. Apple's website will tell you it's $399 of a trade-in. That's what it says right now. Yes, and in the retail segment, there was a little bit of that, like, watch the prices go down as you trade in a phone kind of animation stuff going on. But, yeah, it's, you know, this is what they're trying to do, is redefine what we thought of as the XR as the mainstream iPhone,

This is what they're trying to do is redefine what we thought of as the XR as the mainstream iPhone, which I think is a good move because people are going to love that $1,000 phone and want to buy it. But I think Apple is better served by rewarding them by saying, yes, it is pro. It is very important. It's worth that $1,000. And by saying, oh, if you don't want a $1,000 phone, that's fine. The real iPhone is $699. Yeah, you don't need it because this one's brilliant. Because a lot of the internals are the same.

We'll get to that in a minute. I want to talk about how these things look and how they feel because you have both touched and seen them. We are in Camera Bump City because not only is the bump bigger on both phones, there's multiple levels of bump now. Even Camera Bump City has skyscrapers, Mike. Yeah. Here we go. Camera Bump City is skyscrapers, Mike. Yeah. Here we go.

Camera Bump City is just off the highway from Dongletown. Yeah, it is. So, yes, it is two levels. If you run your finger over that camera bump, which don't do it because you've just smudged the lenses of your camera, but they are slightly up from the glass of the bump they they rise a little bit because i think there's like a lens that is in there that is not part of the um the glass and and that's why it's like that in the end you know does it does it matter i think that what they're

trying to do is just sort of say yep that's a bump but yes there there's texture on the on the bump now and the bump is the big square. And they decided, I think this is an interesting example of problem solving on the part of Apple's industrial designers, which is, you know, big sigh, like, you want to do what? Three cameras and a flash and a sensor on the back? Really? Okay, how do we do? And then they're like, all right, how do we do this? And they said, you know what? We do it by calling it out. We're not going to scatter a bunch of little bumps around the back.

We're going to put a big square in the corner and it's going to be part of the identity of these phones. And that's what they've done. And you can like it or not like it. But I think the truth is that when you've got all these kinds of cameras on the back of these phones, the bumps are going to happen. And this is how they chose to do it.

It's an interesting- But interestingly the the big square that the the first level of bump is just glass right like it's just a raised piece of glass it's not it's not like a a different piece or anything like that it's it's just like a an extra piece of glass that they've it's not and it's not even an extra piece it is the continuing of the of the glass the glass coming off with this with the bump there yeah so um the pro phones is my understanding they have a different feel to the regular phone right because they pvd coated the glass um i want to know what they feel like what is the difference in this texture so they're they're matte and they have a matte feel on the back because it's this it's this coated glass so it they're they they

have a texture it's a you know i don't even know how to describe it it is you could you could say it's kind of kind of paper like or slightly tacky i'm not sure how tacky is the word I would use, but it is a rough texture and the colors are, it's a matte finish. The sides are still the same, I would say the same as the XS. They're the stainless steel side. So if you're thinking like, oh, well, maybe this phone will be more able to be held in the hand without it feeling slippery? I don't think so, because the stainless ring around it is the same, essentially, as the XS. It's really just the back that has got this other thing. And I think what you'll see with both of these models is part of what Apple's doing is learning the lesson. We talked about it last week. We've talked about it a bunch. Learning the lesson, honestly, oddly, of Apple Watch bands, which is how do you refresh a product that doesn't actually refresh that often?

The answer is change the colors. Why not? And so Apple is very much saying, we're going to change the colors and the look even though the the base model is not that different from the 10s except for that camera it's it looks totally different like because you've got the matte back and you've got a different color option and on the 11 you've got a completely different look with different colors and that is one way you get people to reconsider if they didn't buy or think about getting a new phone, like just like people buying Apple Watch bands, more expensive than Apple Watch bands. And you probably won't do it as often, but it's the same idea.

It's like, oh, I sat up. I didn't like the 10R colors. And then you see the 11 colors. You're like, oh, you know, maybe you like those colors. And then you come back in or you want to change it up. I think that's all kind of part of the buying psychology that Apple's preying on here. So let's talk about the colors. The 11 comes

in white and black, green and yellow, purple and product red. Product red, white and black, they're probably much and much the same, I would expect, as the 10 are. But the green and the yellow, they seem to be different shades. And purple is new.

Yeah, and I would say that they seem... There wasn't green, was there? I don't think there was green before. Because blue and orange we had before, and they've been replaced. And they've been replaced. I would say that I only... I have an orange 10R here. Coral, best color.

Coral, yeah. Fight us. We both agree on that one. These colors are more, again, color is not my best thing, but I would say more pastel kind of colors. They're lighter colors. They're not the super glary bright colors of the XR. And again, I think that was a choice. I think they wanted to provide a little variety because they went really aggressive with the colors last time.

Yeah, but I think it's a shame. The colors of these phones don't excite me in the same way that the XR's colors did because I felt like they were making stronger statements. The red is a bright red because it's a product red. But yeah, the purple and the green and the yellow are more of a Easter egg color. Yes, these are the Easter phones. Yeah, then the XR, that coral XR, which is just orange, very orange, in a way that these are not.

So again, I think they're just switching it up. In fact, so Jamie, my daughter, is going off to college in a week after the new iPhones come out. It's her move-in day. And we got to get her a new iPhone. And I anticipated getting her an 11. And what I told her was, look at the 11 colors and make a decision. And then after the slide came up that said, we're also going to keep selling the XR, I texted her again.

I said, they're also going to keep selling the XR. So if you like those colors better, we can get you a 10R instead. And we'll see what she says. But I think that's interesting and actually provides, I do think some people might choose a 10R over an 11 specifically because they like the color better. The 10R and the 8 are staying around in the lineup. Yeah.

Interesting. Midnight green. Midnight green. green now I feel like this is one of those things where a lot of people are going to disagree with me but what what why of every color available to you Apple

did you choose this specific color I don't get it I mean you can tell me if I'm wrong can you tell me if i'm wrong i don't like this uh i don't like the color very much and i don't i cannot get my head around why of every color this is the color that the apple have chosen to to add i don't know i think they wanted dark colors a nice navy blue navy blue yeah I know. I think, I agree. My, I mean, you're talking

to a guy whose iPhone XS is in a midnight blue leather case, right? Like, I really like that dark blue. They must, somebody won an argument here and they decided they weren't going to do more than four. It's like, we have ten iPhone colors, people. Ten iPhone colors!

The, somebody said this is this is something that we can consider pro uh and we can go with it and that that it's still super subtle because clearly what they don't want is for the iphone pro models to be um not to garish i get that i understand that but i just think that they chose, just to me, a weirder option. I will be sticking with good old gold, my good friend gold. This is a new gold color. I don't know what that will mean, but I really like the gold iPhone. And clear cases, which I'm so excited about.

Yeah, that came up on, I think, ATP. Somebody made, just as an aside, was like, why don't they just make these beautiful phones? They should offer clear cases for all of them. Let me you jason it was actually uh it was on connected because i said it oh was it you yeah like oh i thought it was on last week's episode well maybe they said an atp too i think an atp atp the episode you can't listen to because it's already been spoiled by actual events but i hadn't heard that episode at that point and i also said it both of you did and i think that that was good and literally that was what was said on stage it's like you can get clear cases for all of them it's like yeah good job apple yes about time yes because people want to see your phones

yeah i've actually been asking for this for a while like when i remember when there was the 10r rumor um and they were talking about clear cases like why can't i get a clear case for my regular iphone because i have this beautiful gold ip iPhone and I never get to see it. Never get to see it. Me too. Never get to see it. So I'm happy about that. Yeah.

Let's talk about the cameras because that is the big thing. That's the story. That always is. And in some revisions, it's more than others. And this is one of the more than others because it is an S effectively year, which is a strange thing to think about, but that's kind of where we are.

It's another S year. We mentioned it already. Big surprise that they went all in on ultrawide and didn't put telephoto on the 11. I honestly hadn't even considered that they would put anything other than a telephoto lens on this. Yeah. Which must mean that Apple are very confident and comfortable with the performance of software portrait photos. Yeah. I wonder, too.

So, well, I don't know. Because you do have two lenses, which means you do have parallax. So, I think, in fact, no fact no they said didn't they they said that you can now do uh portrait mode for other stuff on the 11 and it's because they still have the parallax even though you're taking it with the one camera you can use the other camera's data for true depth perception parallax instead of using machine learning to find a face and say oh this is a person i'm going to blur the background they can actually use depth so you can take pictures of pets and objects and stuff like that so they get and that's interesting right so they they get the portrait mode feature without needing

to do what they do on all these other what they've done up to now which is use the zoomed camera as your parallax instead they're like no i can actually just use, I can use the wide. But what I said last week, you know, when among other things, when I said like, you know, you will never go wrong betting on more photo features on new iPhones because they're important. But what I said was the thing that makes me sad when I use the XR is that I can't zoom in. And I was thinking about that because you still can't on the 11. Like zoom in. No, it's not there. Instead, they want to go wide.

And I wonder if there's some thought process there about how these, they know how their phones are used and they may have realized that people, either they made a guess or they have data to suggest that what people really want to do is back off of photos and take wider shots, not zoom in. And that if you had to pick one, you pick the wide angle and that gives you a bunch of extra stuff because they've got a bunch of features that use that ultra wide camera, which Phil Schiller called super wide at one point, which made me laugh. It's like master of marketing and he got the phrase wrong one time. But ultra wide camera lens, you get to do things like, you know, the zooms in especially in the three camera system. But even in the two camera system, when you're doing video and you switch between those lenses, it has a whole like zoom back effect. And it's all like there's no like jerky switching to the

other camera it's like you just zoomed out which is wild also do the smooth effect when going in like going using the telephoto on the pro i think so i think that i think that's all yes yes i did say that would be nice because i've that's always been a frustration when trying to use those and it had like that zoom wheel in the camera app, which was cool. Yep. It's all, they're using software there to sort of smooth out all of those zoom movements. So that's all, you know, that's all good. And then there are also some features with that ultra wide like on stills.

And I think this is turned off by default. But, you know, you can do that thing that I said earlier at the top of the show that was not wrong by bloomberg which is you can use the ultra wide data to expand your crop area on a regular photo using the wide camera and that also is just kind of a magic feature that's hidden in the background we are finally getting an upgrade to the selfie camera. It is going from a 7-megapixel lens to 12-megapixels and brings with it 4K video and slow-mo, so you can do slow-mo selfies. Apple is going to do their best here

to try and create something called... Don't even say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. I'm going to do it. I will be the person to take that bullet for all of us. Slow-fees. That's what they want. They're going to put a lot of money and what they want. They're going to create, they're going to put a lot of money and time into this

because they're going to try and make it a thing. Fine. I think the ad that they've made was very funny. I enjoyed that a lot. So that's the thing that they're doing. But I am actually just genuinely

really happy to finally get a upgrade to the front-facing camera. I use the front-facing camera a lot and over time, I've become frustrated by it. And also, it's a wide angle too, right? So you can zoom in. Yeah, that's the big thing is that by default, if you're holding it in vertical, it's cropped basically on the sides. But if you turn it to horizontal, then it expands. And now you're using kind of wide mode. Can I change it myself if I want to?

Yeah, there's also a zoom button on it. So if you're holding in portrait and you just tap the zoom button, it zooms back out. It's zoomed into sort of classic width of selfie by default. But you can just tap and now you're shooting a wide selfie. Night mode. Yep, they did it. They had to do it, what, two years since Google did it? Mm-hmm.

I have nothing to say about this yet other than the images they showed look good. The proof is in the pudding on this one and I will absolutely not give Apple a buy on their ability to just make this work. Like, I want to wait and see, right? Is that fair? Like, I just feel like this is a difficult thing to do.

And I want to see the results myself. They seem to have put a lot of effort into it. Like they said, if we're going to do this, we're going to do it, right? When you're in a dark environment, you actually get like an icon comes up. It actually will show you how long your exposure is going to be, which is really interesting. So like you're,

you're in a dark environment and it says three seconds. And so, you know, that's like, hold the camera for three seconds and it's going to do a three second exposure. So it's giving you feedback right away. I was told that this goes beyond that, which is really cool. Like if you put this on a tripod, like you're shooting a nature shot, it knows you're on a tripod because you're not jiggling with your hands

and it will let you roll that shot out for long amounts of time to gather lots of light, which is pretty cool. So this is also a, I don't know if you ever did that, but I would sometimes take night shots where you put a camera on a tripod and you crank it up to 30 seconds or a minute to open the shutter and you trigger the shutter and you walk away and it just opens and sits there drinking in the light in the night. This can do that. This feature can do that.

And it knows because of its motion sensors. That it's in a stable environment. It knows it's stable. And if it's not stable, it doesn't offer that feature because you're a human and you're shaky. And if you can hold it together for three seconds. And then obviously it's bracketing with

a whole bunch of different photos that it's taking before and after. And it's doing a bunch of uh for for this night mode to uh presumably knit that all together and using machine learning and all those things that google talks about i assume all of that is happening in this night mode too but it's uh apple it feels very much like somebody in the photo team at apple is like all right if we're going to do long exposures in the darkness we're going to do this right so there's a lot of of depth okay going on here which i think is interesting like i have a lot of hope now and what you're telling me but like i still know that there is especially for the quick shots like there's a lot of machine learning that has to go on and for sure to get that right and to get it to the samples look great yeah but then

you do it yourself and you're and you say oh no this is terrible right like the face there's you can see the room but the person is all smudged in the face or whatever and you know they they are trying very hard i actually really liked that when they were showing off the pro sample images which were all credited by name and all that stuff which i thought was an interesting thing after all that brouhaha when they held the shot on iPhone campaign, they're correcting people by name. Also reinforces the pro thing, right? Like these are the pros.

We had the pro shoot. Because it had all like the ISO and all that in the corner. It's like, okay, we get it. Yes, we get it. We get it. But what I liked is that Phil kind of said like, and this is what you can get if you put it in the hands of a professional.

And I actually kind of liked that because it was like, look, it is possible to do this, but you're not going to get this right like it needs you can get close to it you have a better chance than ever getting an image that looks like this but it takes someone who knows what they're doing to really get it get out of it right cinematic stabilization so better stabilization in video um i'm i'm all of this sounds amazing for me personally i would i am willing to upgrade my phone to get this camera stuff because it is a lot of really interesting stuff the ultra wide lens is something i've wanted for a while night mode is something i wanted for a while a better uh selfie camera like so for me like i will be happy with this phone upgrade for all of this but what i'm wondering

is can apple take back the crown as the camera phone or are they just going to get to parity now that's the question and it takes and we'll have to see yeah yeah we'll have to see because it really is literally going to be what is the what do these look like when they're put in uh side by side all the reviewers will be doing that right they'll be taking the other great smartphone cameras and comparing them because again it's like one of those things where i will pay attention to the people that i know that review these things that are in the apple world and they'll say like this is the best iphone camera ever and i'll be like i'll be like for me personally brilliant i'm happy with that but then I'll pay attention to the people that are in the Android world as well and see like okay so this is the best iPhone but how does it

stack up against XYZ especially considering there's a pixel on the horizon and they're putting multiple lenses in it so right so like I'm intrigued what can google do so we'll see yeah and the question is is there anybody out there who realistically is going to buy a smartphone based entirely on camera quality i would say no but if there's somebody out there who it it's not the only thing i guess what i'm saying is apple doesn't really have to have the best night mode and the best photos, but it needs to have among the best. Because if it's seen as a laggard, as, you know, well, you can get an iPhone, but your photos aren't going to be as good. That's bad. So I feel like they are setting themselves up to not be seen as that and then the question is going to be are

they going to go in the lead and then you know are they going to be caught but are they going to be in the conversation i think that's all they really need to do i'm sure they would like to win but i think all they really need to do is be in the conversation with some of the photo stuff that's rolled out over the last year year and a half they have been kind of put to shame. And so this is major in them, probably for the last year and a half, making a real, if not longer, making a real effort to invest in this stuff so that they could be back in that conversation

as among the best cameras. And there was this whole thing, right? This deep fusion thing. That's like something else that's coming. I don't, I didn't really understand what they were showing me. Um, but for sure,

I seemed excited. Yes, he did. He told me I couldn't take that picture before. I mean, I don't know what that was. I don't know what I was seeing. Uh,

I think that I, you know what I'm going to wait for? I'm going to wait for Matthew Panzarino to tell me because I'm sure he will be the person to get this story. Sure. I will wait for Panzer to tell me why this is good and then we'll find out later on. Face ID is 30% faster and usable at more angles.

Two thumbs up. Great to hear that. I haven't been able to find out yet, Jason, if you can use it in multiple orientations. Yeah, I don't know. My guess is not because you don't really unlock the phone in multiple orientations. So my guess is not, but I don't know. More battery all around. One hour extra for the 11, which already had the best battery of any iphone yeah four hours for the pro five hours for the pro max yeah wow yeah this is um this is the single largest increase in battery life in the history of the iphone really i mean for i what the iphone was always like

a you know the the amount of time now you're making me question myself, but not like to go up four hours. Like Apple's never been like, yeah, this one's four hours more battery than the last one of the, of its kind. It's like, no, no, that's never. Cause usually the, the life of these things was measured in four hours or eight hours or 10 hours or something like that. So, so to take this four or five hour jump in the same shape and size, and what that says to me is processor, right? What that says to me is, even though they had their usual

20% faster performance cores, 20% faster efficiency cores, 20% faster GPU in the A13 Bionic, what it says to me is that efficiency, low power design, and they talked about it briefly in a, I thought was characterized very good on Twitter by Matthew Panzarino. He did a good job, characterized it very well, which is nobody cares about 8.5 billion transistors. That's just Apple dunking on their competition in chip design. And they wanted to say 7nm. They wanted to say it so they could say it because no one else has said it. So they wanted to say it. And consumers don't care.

But the people who watch chip design, that was Apple dunking on them. Because the truth is, and they put it up there. I've written about it a bunch and some of my Tom's Guide pieces about it. The whole wave of Android phones that comes out after the iPhone, none of them measure up to the current iPhone's processor. In fact, the last two years, it's been very clear. By the time the new iPhone is about to come out, there's still no Android phone that's faster than the iPhone from last year. And then they do a new iPhone, and it puts the bar even higher. And Apple did the slides this year, but it's absolutely been true the last couple of years that Apple is so far ahead

on the power of their chips. And here, what we're seeing is not only did they keep raising the bar in terms of speed, but they seem to have focused a lot on doing the low power design stuff. And so you may not care about the 8.5 billion transistors and tailoring them on their seven nanometer processes, etc, etc. I think what you really care about is the pro the iPhone 11 Pro is four hours more battery life than the 10s. And that the pro max has five hours more battery life than the XS Max. That is what you care about, and that's big. And even that the 11, which was already the XR, like you said, and they said it on stage, the most battery life in an iPhone ever.

And this one is an hour, again, more. I was, as someone who's recently started using the battery case more and more, I was concerned because they never had the battery cases available immediately. I'm not concerned anymore. Five hours will probably do me. So I asked you the question about

what makes it a pro. So the camera system, right, the three in total, there being a new UI in the camera app for the pros and one of those things. But they've also called the screen now the Super Retina XDR. So they're borrowing from the pro display, right? Yeah, that's an interesting choice.

One of the reasons that Apple's saying this is because of the fact that they have the kind of like adaptive brightness-like stuff. So the screen will go up to 800 nits for uh in harsh light so in like the sunlight and 1200 for hdr content so they can boost it when needed i don't know how nits compares to my usage of the phone honestly but that sounds interesting i think that they might be pushing it a little bit to call it the xdr but they're doing that um and it has a 458 ppi uh which is the highest in any apple product so there's some other things that make it pro i guess uh the 11 starts at 699 the pro at 999 and the pro max at

1099 and pre-orders start on friday at a new time which is 5 a.m pacific so i want to go back to my initial questions for you i'll ask you the second one first in your mind is the iphone 11 pro pro enough yeah i mean well i i would i would turn that around and say um that's the wrong question and what really the question is is um is it positioning it properly as a high end model, and making the 11 the standard model? And in that I say, yes, that's what that's what they set out to do. on the pro models, including the OLED screen with the pro display XDR OLED, whatever, you know, like there's stuff there to explain why it's at the cutting edge and why it costs more and, and the third camera. And that's, you know, that they differentiate, they continue to be differentiated in a way that makes you feel like this is the pro model, but they also kind of got it clear of the idea that that's the real iPhone and that they're saying, no, this one down here is the real iPhone.

I think you've answered both of my questions, really. And I am in agreement with you, right? I think that the 11 really does feel like much more of the position of this is the phone that most people should buy than the XR was because it was still a little bit like there was a bit of a question around that still, I think. It's like, all right, yeah, but they released it at a different time and all that kind of stuff i want to follow up with uh really quickly with something that happened in the chat room that it that it makes a good point that was not something i did not have my calipers with me at apple park so i wasn't able to measure the phones but the iphone 11 pro is thicker by four tenths of a millimeter which means there's probably more battery in there too and that's another reason that they were able to go up four or five hours

on battery is that they are actually a little bit thicker do you know why it's thicker at all do you have any sense of why that is interesting Mm-mm. Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. I mean, obviously, they wouldn't say that on the stage. Unless, I mean, I assume that's not measuring the bump. You would assume that they're not measuring the bump.

But who knows? Who knows? Yeah, the iPhone XS Max was 0.3 inches thick, and the Pro Max is 0.32 inches thick. Yeah. Yep. Just a little bit, but, you know you know on the surface area that can matter a lot and that explains why the 10r sorry the 11 doesn't have as much of a uh a boost over the 10r even though it also got that power saving processor is because it didn't i don't

believe it got thicker yeah so we ended the iPhone with the retail update, which seemed strange initially. It's like, why is this happening now? It's like, oh, because they can show you how cheap the phone can be if you trade in. I had Deirdre O'Brien on stage on our draft list and we didn't pick it. And then there it was.

And I was kind of kicking myself. I was like, oh, she did make it on stage. And that was, and you know, they staff these events with Apple retail people. And that's, that was a funny thing. I saw her going through the hands-on area afterward. And she's stopping by every single one of those people in the bright colored shirts who are there from her group from retail and thanking them and saying hi and remembering some of them from her visiting their stores and stuff, which I thought was actually pretty cool to see afterward. But I think the real reasons the retail update had to come at the end is, one, they used it to show off those trade-in prices, and two, they did a thing with the Apple Watch that's a little different. And so they had to wait for the products to be announced before they could talk about how they would be done in stores.

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Moo for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. Alright, let's talk about services before we get on to the Apple Watch, Apple Arcade, and Apple TV+. So, I think we can move through these pretty quickly, actually. So, Apple Arcade and Apple TV+. So I think we can move through these pretty quickly, actually. So Apple Arcade, they brought out three large publishers

to talk about games that they're working on. Capcom, Konami, and Anopuna Interactive. They had some interesting demos. They had a big slide at the end with loads of companies that I know in the video gaming industry. So it was really exciting to see that. 100 games are coming to the service at first. I don't know if it's 100 like immediately,

but like there will be 100. And this is quote, the largest launch catalog of any game service, which was, this was presented by Anne Mai Tai, who she was at WWDC. She presented for Apple Arcade as well she's a good person to follow on Twitter because she retweets

a lot of the games a lot so good person to follow it is coming to the iPhone on the 19th the iPad on the 30th in October for the Mac the reason is because that's when iOS 13 is hitting each of those products well that's when the when iOS 13 is hitting each of those products. Well,

that's when the next software updates are hitting each of those products. So the iPhone's the 19th, iPadOS is the 30th of September, and then the Mac is in October. It is $4.99 a month with a one-month free trial. I will stand by what I said before, that the

pricing of Apple Arcade feels like the best value for money on any Apple service. LOL Apple News of Apple Arcade feels like the best value for money on any Apple service. LOL Apple News. Apple Arcade to me is the best new service that Apple is introducing with the best chance of success because it is going to a position where they're strong and it makes them stronger. And in terms of a value for people, I think $5 a month is a pretty good value for 100 games. And we'll see how many are good, and we'll see how many they roll on.

I had somebody on Twitter say, I can get a humble bundle for $10 and play a couple of good games. It's like, good games? Really? Good games? But, I mean, the truth is, are the games going to be good? We'll see. I think they've got to have variety because different people have different opinions about what the good games but i mean the truth is are the games going to be good we'll see i think they got to have variety because different people have different opinions about what the good games are but five dollars a month to get a whole bunch of exclusive games that do not nickel and dime you

for gems or coins or anything like that i think like sign me up sign me up because uh that that is yes i want that that is this is the solution to the problem of all the crappy games that are in the App Store, which is if somebody had come to you and said, if I gave you $5 a month, if I took $5 a month from you, but in exchange, I made it that games in the App Store were no longer crappy. Well, yes. Yes, let's do that. How does that work? And the answer is, it's Apple Arcade. So I'm looking forward to trying it. I hope the games are good because that is how it will ever die but i'm very positive

about it um and uh and the demos although game demos make me want to go to sleep um they were they were good as demos go uh apple tv plus we got to see the first trailer of c what did you think of the c trailer I think what I said on Twitter which is just what was passing through my mind at the time was boy this is a high concept show like the highest of

high concepts right the high concept is you know super easy big picture idea and it's in the future after an apocalypse no human being can see. But then two children are born who can see. And thus begins a battle, a conflict between various warring factions over the possession of these children with this amazing power of sight. And I thought's then things blow

up and jason momoa is there and you know it looked like a million bucks which is good because it cost way more than a million bucks yeah it looked like 12 million an episode um and my inner TV critic slash watcher person said, this premise is so far out. And the way it's described, it's like, is this show really going to be all but two actors acting blind all the time? Because that could get really weird really fast and i think tim cook was like we've consulted with uh blind people about this and you know it's it's not going to be offensive it's like okay great it's still we'll we'll see i think it's a i think it's a uh it's a it's a high concept it's an interesting choice um my odds of them pulling it off i would

say are not in not not increased by seeing the trailer it actually makes me a little more skeptical the money is clearly there on screen but the premise itself is so kind of uh wacky even more wacky than i thought that um i'm yeah, I'm skeptical, I guess I would say. I think I'm a little bit more positive than you. I thought it looked really cool. I'm excited about it. It looks cool. I just, I'm not sure that the story possibilities are going to be as solid.

But yeah, like I said, the money is on the screen. It looks amazing. I mean, if what they're going for is we want to make something that looks a little bit like Game of Thrones, I guess they did that, right? Like visually, right? It's like big and bold and there's lots of people running at each other. Yep. Apple TV Plus unveils on November 1st. I found out some details.

There will be more shows added every month after the initial slate, which is the shows that they put on screen. Most shows will be launching with the first three episodes, and then there will be one episode a week after that. Some will launch the entire season, but the way that they're going to do most of their stuff is with three episodes and then one episode a week. of their stuff is with three episodes and then one episode a week. So you can do a little binge to see if you like it, and then you can keep coming back for more. Yeah, and I like that they said available in over 100 countries. So however they roll it out, and we've seen various reports about how they would roll that out, the goal is that unlike Disney, which is going to do a slower rollout, that Apple, they want this available. So over 100 countries.

And that's good. November 1st, you know, I'm a little disappointed. I was hoping that they would be. This was the great debate of by November. And Mark German, I think, saying November. And the answer is, yeah, pretty much those two things agreed on the one date. The Venn diagram there is November 1st. That's when it is.

So I was hoping for sooner than that. But we'll get a November 1st. Fair enough. That's not, none of this is the most interesting thing to be announced about Apple TV Plus today. $4.99 a month. Yeah, I mean, Disney kind of made that necessary. And so they did it. And good, I think they had to do that.

I think the moment in the keynote that I'm sitting there watching is that they said $4.99 a month and it says below family subscription. I thought, what does that mean? What other kind of subscription could there be? What other kind of subscription could there be? Which leads us to the wacky thing that I did not expect, partially because we go back and forth about this. What if Apple gave certain things away with purchases of hardware? Because it's a way to roll your services revenue into hardware sales. And it blah, blah, blah.

And they did it. They finally did it for this product of all the products. So if you buy a device, any device a phone an ipad a mac a mac or an apple tv you get a year of apple tv plus for free this has answered the question that i've been posing right for months is there's no way they could just charge for this no get around it because yep so many of their customers will not pay for it for a year now i will get i will guess that that will be on the apple id that's associated with the purchase yeah that'll get comp to that which is why there's this family thing it's probably for a single user a single stream so it's probably got a lot of limits that are

going to make people who've got a bunch of different watchers in their household choose to pay for 4.99 for it because then you get the family plan which is multiple streams etc etc but it does fulfill that need um for all devices which I get why it's all devices. I think that's good. I had been thinking for a while that one of the possibilities was that Apple TV would come bundled with it, that you'd get it with an Apple TV purchase. And that totally did happen. But it turns out you can just buy anything and you'll get it. I did have that moment where I thought, what if they make it like you get it for this device?

So it's like, hey, you bought a new iPhone. You can watch our TV shows on that iPhone if you want it on any other device. But they won't do that. They'll tie it to the Apple ID. So from Apple's website, one subscription per family sharing group. Offer is valid for three months after eligible device activation from the 1st of November. Plan automatically renews until canceled. Uh-huh. Okay. So there we go. So the free plan is for

the family group too? One subscription per family sharing group. I don't know what that means, but that's what it says. Okay. Interesting. Well, I guess we'll find out more details about it it probably means that you can't you know keep buying devices and get more years of it that it's really just the one and then it auto renews and it'll be interesting to see if they turn that off if that's really just for this year's models and that next year that's no longer an offer and they want you to pay. Or maybe it's a single time, right? Maybe it's a single thing for an Apple ID so you can get it this year, but then you don't get it next year because you already got their one year bonus.

Who knows? I think this is one time this year only. That's how I reckon it's going to work. We'll see. Let's talk about the Apple Watch because this was a shocker. We were thinking small revision, small revision. Always-on retina display. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. Yes, this is the thing that was beaten out of us. It was like, well, we could keep on talking about the always-on display, but it's never going to happen, so we're not going to even pick it. We're going to stop looking foolish by picking an always-on display feature that's never going to happen. And here it is. So tell me, how does it look? How does it work?

You know, well, you saw it in the screen. I don't have anything more beyond what you saw. They had the watches around, but they're all, they look like watches. The way it works is that this new, it's almost, this is going to sound weird, but it's basically a ProMotion display on the Apple Watch in the sense that it has a variable frame rate. And what they do when it's not active. So if you think about when the Apple Watch currently lights up and then goes dark. Lights up mode is the same as it was.

Goes dark is now this other mode. And what they do is they crank down the brightness of the display, which since it's OLED, saves a lot of power. And it's got a light sensor, so it will crank it down even more when it's dark. If you're outside, they won't crank it down quite as much because you are supposed to be able to see it. That's the point of the always on display and they crank down the frame rate the refresh rate on the on the display to as low they said as one hertz so one update a second um i i'd imagine i don't i don't know this one um whether the second hands are gone in this mode or whether the second hands tick by the second instead of smoothly animate. But it does mean that at one refresh a second, they can still update your complications and things like that.

The Apple website shows some demos of it working right and one of the the uh what is infograph modular that's got the watch face on it yep when it's in the dimmed version there is no second hand on that watch face yeah and that's that's a reasonable way to do it and i always thought when we were complaining about this feature over the last three years mike uh that was one of the things that i would always sacrifice is like just make the second hand disappear i don't need the second hand i just want it to display and you know what they didn't do is implement this as a um you know really crappy um non-animated thing and then when you turn it it blinks to life with this much more uh you know with a

different watch face that's not what it is it's the same it's your watch face but it's tweaked somehow it's it can drop some stuff out like something that's live and animating like a second hand sweeping across um but you know i went so here's a funny thing this is the one where i speculated i don't know if they're even going to do a Series 5. I mean, they probably will, because why not? But what are they going to do? And again, part of that is both of us saying, well, I mean, they're not going to give us anything big,

like always on Watch Face. So what are they going to do? And the answer is, that's exactly what they did. It took the Apple Watch for me from being like a footnote of this event to being legitimately, I think, the biggest upgrade of any product in this event. And makes me as a Series 4 user go, oh, I really, really want the always-on watch face. I really do.

This is like the cellular connectivity. The cellular connectivity, this is one of those things that from moment one of the Apple Watch being announced five years ago, we had on the list of, well, eventually it has to do this. And I didn't expect them to check it off this year. After the last two years, them not checking it off, but they finally did it. felt they needed to do in order to do this was design a screen that could be cranked down to one frame per second and you know do all this other stuff to maximize that battery life so that they could they could keep it running but i think it's huge i think i think having they they elaborated on it very well i thought i don't know what you think about this i know your your relationship with the apple watch is kind of complicated but i thought that little bit where they explained all the reasons you might actually one an always-on watch face, that up until now, for the last five years, we haven't needed, but now we totally need it, right?

Because it's Apple. That's what they do. But I thought that was very good in them, because I've thought about this, too. How do you describe why you would want an always-on watch face? And they said, you know, you're in a meeting, and you don't want to make a big thing about shaking your wrist or you're working out and you can't you know rotate around all of these reasons why you don't want to be shaking your your your apple watch in order to wake it up and they're absolutely right that has always been the issue with the apple watch and and this my um we had dinner with some friends not too long ago, and my wife made this point, too.

She said, it's dumb. Like, I want to just have it on. Like, for her, that was, like, always the feature that was missing from the Apple Watch. And it's true. So now it's not. And you've got to buy a new Apple Watch to get it, unfortunately. But I'm glad that they did it. Turns out there wasn't a compass in the Apple Watch.

It's one of those things where it's like, oh. I know now you're telling me. I know that there wasn't one. But I'm surprised by that. They literally put Boy Scouts in their video. That made me laugh. Like, of course, who needs a compass? Boy Scouts.

But being able to use that when when using the map for walking directions is really useful sure i thought they spent too much time on compass they did you know compass whatever compass titanium and ceramic have been added as expected um did you see these they're both addition i did not get a good look at either i think it's interesting the titanium is basically priced the same as the fancier stainless and not priced like the ceramic. Ceramic is an addition priced as such. It's like $1,200 or $1,400 or something like that. But the titanium is in that $700 or $800 range of just a pricey stainless model, which I was a little surprised by. And that's nice. But I did not get to see those close up. which I was a little surprised by and that's nice but I did not get to see those close up and there is an S5 chip inside wasn't mentioned on stage

but apparently is for power saving stuff and like to help make this always on red and the display works it does have a different chip inside but there isn't enough difference that they called it out and you can now choose whatever case and strap you want

so like the Apple Watch case being what it's made out of, sort of material, and something called Apple Watch Studio. Yeah, and this is why the retail stuff got pushed to the end, is really this. And I don't know the details of how it'll work in the stores, but I will tell you on the website, what it really means is you can go into Apple Watch Studio, and rather than trying to sell you like this watch that comes with this band and this watch that comes with this band, you can also just say, pick your watch body material and color.

Pick your band. Buy. Which is, I think, a much better way to sell the Apple watch is to is to pick any band and any watch and then get it and i imagine what this means practically in the store and may even mean practically for all online orders i don't know if they're going to do any bundles but my gut feeling is what this means is the apple watch is going to ship in a box without a band and then you'll also get a band that's how the last one shipped remember you would get that little package that you opened and it had the it was like two different boxes and they were like

right together with some paper but that was just how they shipped and i guess that was a test for this yeah and i like it i don't know whether they'll let you buy an apple watch without any band which if you've already got bands you could save a little bit of money but i think i think you need to buy it with a band they do want that but they're what they seem to have done is broken apart the idea that you're gonna have a bundle and that that's good because sometimes you get you get this watch and you're like i guess i'll just pick this cheap band that i don't like because you've got another band that you want um and you may still have to do that but what's better is if you're like oh i can just buy the watch with the band i want and not buy the watch with a dumb band and buy the band you want that's dumb so uh they seem this is more complexity in probably in apple watch distribution

but a way better experience so i think that's i think it's really smart. Watch OS 6 is coming on September 19th for Series 3 and above. Later this fall for older devices. I wonder if they'll start doing this for other products too. Who knows? I mean, I guess they already did it for the iPhone and the iPad, right? iOS 13 is coming on September 19th for the iPhone. Yeah, there's a conversation maybe for next week about what on earth is going on

with Apple software releases this year because they are all over the place. But yeah, that's when it's coming out. And they're keeping the Series 3 around. Series 4 is gone. Series 3 is sticking around. Yeah, it's another decision that they have made once before at least which is you know you kind of go too back to the one that not

only does that give you differentiation but it lets them take that one and really aggressively price it and the the new um the new price is really good so i think that's great yep all right let's take our final break. We'll talk about iPad and then do some hashtag ask upgrade questions to round out today's episode. Let me thank Pingdom

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Then when you sign up, use the code UPGRADE at checkout and you'll get a huge 30% of your first invoice. Our thanks to Pingdom for their support of this show and RelayFM. So that was an iPad segment which was a surprise, I think. There have been rumors of a new iPad,

but I don't think realistically anyone really considered that it was going to be a part of this event, that they would shuffle it off to an October event. But the 9.7-inch iPad has been replaced with a 10.2-inch iPad that has a smart connector. It's $329, $299 for education. Yeah, it's filling that same price and it's very similar to the old one. The big change being it's got a slightly bit larger screen. It's physically more or less the size of the iPad Air now,

which means that it's got a smart connector on it for the first time, which means it can use the same keyboard that the iPad Air uses, which is, which one is that? Is that the old 10.5-inch iPad Pro keyboard as well? So I believe that there is a listing. Yeah, so it says it's a new product, but it is the smart keyboard for iPad 7th generation and iPad Air 3rd generation. But it is listed as new on the website, but I don't think it is new.

I think that it's been updated to just change the name. Right, right. So the idea here is they made it a shape because they wanted to put smart connector on it, but there were no smart keyboards being made that fit it.

So this one is the shape and size of the iPad air more or less with a smart connector on the side. So it can use the previous generation smart keyboard, just like the iPad air can, it can use the Apple pencil, which the previous iPad could also use that first generation Apple pencil. So they just rolled the keyboard feature in there, which I thought was interesting because then they talked about like comparing it

to PC laptops and stuff like that. So even the 329 iPad now can do that whole story that we used to consider the iPad Pro a few years ago of a smart keyboard and Apple Pencil. Yeah, there's some questions about the iPad line now, but the good thing is it's good. This is good for the iPad line now, but the good thing is, it's good. This is good for the iPad line. Prime placement in the best keynote.

And 329 for that, that 329 model, which they said on stage is their best selling iPad, which I don't doubt for that price. And it's, and it's got, you know, it's got a good screen

and it's got Apple Pencil support and it's got a keyboard. Like, I think there's a real question of like, why the iPad Air exists? Because it's going to keep it like it. I think there's a real question of like why the iPad Air exists because it's better for a little bit more, but it's just so weird because it's they're now the same size. I don't know whether that means they're going to reposition the iPad Air or whether it's just going to vanish at some point.

But there's some weird things still going on with the iPad line. But but it's good. Like this is their most important thing. They last updated this product at that Chicago event last year, right? So I think this is to do this seventh generation version. It's great. It's their most popular product for a reason, and they revved it going into the holidays, and they've got a keyboard story for it. That's great. Having that smart keyboard as an option is fantastic. I mean, as a percentage of the price of the iPad,

that smart keyboard is expensive. But it's good that they've got that smart connector and they can tell that story if they want. What else is there? I mean, iPadOS is coming late. We should mention that. Oh, yes. Again, it's coming late.

End of the month. It's going to be 13.1. Yeah. it's coming late uh end of the month it's going to be 13.1 yeah it's coming at the end of the month yeah that's fine that's fine it's just funny that like if you're an ipad user and you want to get those updates the answer is you can just get that get on the beta and get it but if you want to wait for the final final you will have to wait later than iphone users and that's just how it has to be I think that's a good move because yeah the betas it's like yeah take your time it's good good more betas good keep taking your time Apple

Joe wants to know do you believe that Apple's next event thank you for the lasers will be all pro focused given that the Mac Pro is still due to come out later this year the consumer iPad is now out of the way and all of the rumors of macbook pros and new ipad pros joe 100 that's what i think the next event will be i think that there will be an event in october i think they may actually use it to launch um catalina in fact um but it makes sense we got this rumor of the impending 16 inch macbook pro

they could do an ipad pro update that is minor but still like throw on an a13x processor to keep it up to speed with the latest chips yeah it might be like pretty much the same week that ipad os ships yeah it could be i mean they just said october or well no they that's the ipad os is shipping late september it ships monday september 30th for all we know they could be doing an event like in three or four they could last last year that's that's awfully fast last year they did a right before halloween so but sometime in october i feel like that kind of makes sense. Throw in the Mac Pro, like they could ship it, or they could give a ship date and final pricing and

more details. And there is more than enough stuff that is rumored or seems logical that they would have in the pipeline for them to do that event. So I would say, I think that Apple's next event will be a pro-focused thing. Here's the problem. You could argue that the iPad today is a weird placement because if they have other iPads, why would they not have announced them together?

The argument would be, this is the mainstream consumer product launch and that product is ready to go and why not give it a kick? And then the other thing I would say is Joe's question was Apple's next event. And I think that Apple's next event, maybe it happens in October. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it happens in March. Maybe it happens in February. It doesn't necessarily have to happen in October. However, if I had to guess today, I would guess that there will be a pro hardware event and it will be in October

and it will be new Mac laptop, more Mac Pro details, iPad Pro updates, and probably Catalina? Maybe a display if we're really lucky. And display, yeah. Well, I mean, yes, there's that display with a $1,000 stand.

A different one that doesn't have a $1,000 stand. Maybe. Maybe. Who knows. That maybe is $1,000 on its own. Old display. Don't worry about stand. Chris says, I'm disappointed that the Apple Watch 4 is out of the lineup. I was hoping to buy a cheap

one. Is the Apple Watch 3 worth it it the 4 seemed like such a jump forward so i will say if you wanted to buy a cheap series 4 they will exist in places like check best buys and stuff like that right like some places are going to be discounting that but yeah maybe so and i would say there'll also be people who want to get a series five who will sell their series four uh there may be some refurbed series four on apple's website so you have some options to get it um i think it depends on your commitment to the apple watch like the bigger screen on the four is a lot better than the three three is a nice nice, but the four is a pretty big jump forward. So if you're serious about Apple Watch, I would do bargain hunting for a four rather

than go back to the three. If you really are just taking a flyer on it and you don't think you're going to be using it heavily, but you want to see what it's all about and maybe use it for fitness stuff, then the three is a great deal because it's cheap. the three is a it's a great deal because it's cheap but um if you have any kind of interest in getting that four i would do some some bargain shopping and see if you can find a used or discounted four do you think this comes from daniel do you think that apple tv plus pricing and the bundle with purchase of new products is a fair deal and does that make it now a true challenger to disney plus and other streaming services they are not a challenger now no won't be even after the content launches

they could have incredible tv shows but their catalog is way too small way too small it's not not with not the game they're playing not the game they're playing i think i think the bundle with purchase of a new product is brilliant because it's going to get this service in the in the face of apple users that's perfectly fair like it's a free year of content great and then i can make my own mind up afterwards but i don't have to give apple money like specifically to to try it so yeah well you do you do but right but not for that yeah also accounting accounting, and this is going to be interesting, accounting-wise, I imagine they're going to account some prorated portion of those device sales as services revenue because of the value of Apple TV+, being bundled in with the sale of the hardware. Couldn't that be a risk, though, for the amount of people that might not renew? Yeah, but it's services revenue, right? I think legally they probably have to do that because legally they are including that service as part of the value of the device. So I think

they actually have to do that. They already do that with some other stuff where they actually consider it services now. And it's a portion of the value of the hardware. So I think they'll do some more of that. But I think there's a question of what is the renewal? Can you just keep buying Apple hardware and getting Apple TV plus forever? Or is this going to be something that really only happens year one? Um, but the whole first one's free idea applies here, which is they're getting this thing up and running.

They want as many eyeballs in front of it as possible. They're going to get that. And, uh, that that might mean forgoing some incremental revenue now it's fine like disney disney is forgoing a lot of revenue by aggressively pricing disney plus the point is you want to get it up and running and have people in your system as subscribers and then um you're looking at their lifetime amount of money they're spending on your service right like you get them in you them loyal, and then they stay with you for 10 years, 15 years at that price. And that's what they want.

So I think that this is an interesting way of Apple doing it rather than bundling it with their other services to just say, year one, try it out. You can buy a new iPhone. You're going to get it anyway. So just watch it. And then a year or two from now, now we'll come to you and say you need to pay us to keep watching your favorite shows joe asks is mike coming back to the apple watch now so i have said for a long time one of the main reasons i don't want to wear an apple watch is because i don't want to have to lift my wrist to look at the time. Still very true.

I'm very tempted. I was very tempted by the Series 4 because I think it looks great. I'm very tempted by the new cases. I really want to see what titanium and ceramic look like. Would I wear an Apple Watch every day? No. May I consider one again? Maybe.

I'm not ordering anything now. I want to go and look at them, but I want to see how these new case finishings look. I really liked, I loved the white ceramic when they first did it. I love it again. I wished that the crown wasn't black. I don't know why they've done that. It's black

of a red ring that should be all white in my mind. I would have liked to have seen that. I thought the image I saw was white ceramic with a white crown. All of the imagery that I have seen shows a black crown. So I would love to see something if you've seen it,

but everything on Apple's website shows a black crown. I think the slide on the presentation was with a white crown. Okay, so the crown is white, but the circle in inside of the red ring is black does that make sense yeah yeah so that's everything i'm looking at the website now and it's okay it's black i can't so uh but i want to go look at it in person maybe

it wouldn't look so bad because there's still a black ring around the screen so who knows maybe it will match up i am also intrigued by the uh the uncolored titanium just like the regular titanium maybe look cool i want to go and look at them because visually they are more appealing to me um maybe i maybe i'll add it into my watch rotation again who knows but i'm not putting any bets on it yet fuzan asks what is your opinion on titanium versus ceramic versus stainless steel as a watch material? I'm having a tough time deciding

which one would be ideal for my needs. All I know is what I've heard Marco say, which is that both titanium and ceramic are stronger than stainless steel. Ceramic can shatter,

but I don't know if or what Apple will do about that. Do you know anything more than that? No, I just listened to Marco about this stuff too. I don't have any opinion. I think also the wisdom of Marco about watches, which is if you get a chance to see them in person

at your Apple store, you should do that. You should 100% go and try them on, especially if you're trying to decide. I mean, if you are worried about a watch material, then I think at that point you are upgraded to the level where you need to go and see it in person. If you are somebody who's like, I don't care, I just want an Apple Watch. Well, you know what? Get the aluminum one then because it's the cheapest one and you don't care. But you do care you should probably care enough to go look at them in person if at all possible and i know that means you know inconvenience of

finding an apple store to go see these things but that is the best uh best option i know there are weight differences too but i don't know what the weight differences are exactly but i know that there are weight differences between those materials, and that will make an effect when it's on your wrist. Even if it's only small, you will notice it. And Chris asks, final question today, is the iPhone 11 an upgrade from the XS, in our opinion? Because Chris is considering upgrading and reducing the monthly upgrade program payment.

What do you think about that? Is the iPhone 11 an upgrade from the iPhone XS? Well, we didn't even mention it, but like one thing is that 3D Touch is gone. 3D Touch is gone, Haptic Touch. Which I got a point, I think I got a point for because they mentioned Haptic Touch and they just, hey, it's great.

It's got Haptic Touch. And I thought, okay, that answers that question. So you're going to lose that regardless of what you do. I'd say if you're on the XS now. That might not be a problem if, which is what we believe, that they just replace. Like you can still do all of the same things. Right. Because it feels so different.

In iOS 13. Which is, for as much as we know, is the case. Because the iPad can do everything. Right. So I guess what I would say is, do you like a larger phone and want to save money? Because in that case, yeah. I mean, you're going to get an upgraded processor. You're going to get two cameras. If you use the zoom feature, the telephoto feature a lot, you're going to be sad because it doesn't have that lens. It's got the ultra wide lens. So, uh, but if you, if it's literally an upgrade that will save you money and you don't mind losing, uh, the 3d touch and having a larger phone, you know, I think the, I think the 10R and so presumably of the 11 is a pretty great

phone. So you could do it. I, I, I don't know. I mean, if you've got a 10S, I think most people with a 10S should just wait because they've got a one-year-old phone and you don't need to replace a one-year-old phone. All right. That wraps it up for this week's episode of Upgrade. If you want to ask questions for future episodes, hashtag ask upgrade to do that. And we try and answer as many as we can every show. And if you want to help us open an episode of the show, hashtag SnowTalk. Next week, upstream, we're making a return

because, Jason, there's been a ton of news about even just Apple's programs. A bunch of shows are being canceled left, right, and center. We're going to talk about that on next week's show. As well as, I guess, iOS stuff. Is iOS out? Yeah, iOS is out. No, it won't be out.

We'll have next week's episode. That will be the week after. But I'm sure there will still be a bunch of stuff about the iPhone that we want to talk about. There's going to be lots of wonderful news still to cover. Again, stjude.org slash pineapple to donate to St. Jude. We've actually raised more money just through the episode. We're at $52,647

to somebody or multiple people who have gotten us up $1,000 more than when we started. How wonderful is that? And as I will say again, if you pre-order an iPhone this Friday or you buy an Apple Watch now, because you can buy those now which is something we didn't mention. The Apple Watch, you can just buy it now. You can order it pre-ordered now.

If you do that, please give St. Jude's some money as well. I think that that feels like a nice thing to do. Then you can feel even better about the purchase that you made because you'll be helping St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital, which is a wonderful institution. Sixcolors.com, I'm sure Jason will have lots of posts and lots of words being written there over the next few days. You can follow Jason.

He's at jsnell. I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks to MailRoute, Moo, and Pingdom for their support of this week's episode. And most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Here's looking at you, Slophy.