Upgrade - 270: The Toughest Compare

Episode Date: November 4, 2019

Apple TV+ has finally arrived, and we discuss Apple's first round of new shows--as well as an unimpressive performance from the TV app itself. We've also got reviews of the new AirPods Pro, and Apple's latest financial results reveal that for the iPhone, sometimes down is up.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 270 today's show is brought to you by fresh books direct mail and ero my name is mike hurley i'm joined by jason snell hi jason snell hi mike hurley how are you big show today big show today what Lots going on in the world. Lots of stuff. Funny how that is. The culmination of many years of discussion. Well, not culmination because it's not ended. But anyway, we'll find out later on as we go very upstream heavy as we talk about Apple TV+.

But before we get to all that, we have lots of things to cover, including our Snell Talk question, which comes from Jared. And Jared wants to know, Jason, what way of hearing about Apple products, like new Apple releases, do you prefer? Do you like to go to events or do you like with, you know, you go see the iPhone at an event and find out there, or would you prefer to go to private briefings in advance of press releases? What would you personally prefer? Oh, interesting.

That's a good question. I would say getting briefed privately under embargo in advance so that you know something the world doesn't know is awesome. Right? Like, that's the best. That's the best. Because then you're breaking the news. When your embargo drops and you release your story, nobody's heard of this product before. I remember when we did this a long time ago. I think Mountain Lion was the surprise

OS release. There were literally no rumors. That was the big one. No rumors. I mean, a Mac OS release is not the biggest product in the world, but they had managed to keep it so there was essentially no discussion of there being a Mac OS update. Everybody really assumed it would be another six months before there'd be a mac os update and we got called to

these briefings and i've told the story before but like i remember um i remember leaving and uh and running into mg siegler who was writing a tech crunch at that point in the in the parking lot and we both looked at each other and just shook our heads like, what? Because we had gotten briefed on a product release that was going to be happening. And imagine like a new version of Mac OS that nobody knew about that was going to release. It's really awesome because then we post our stories and people are like, they don't believe you. They're like, did you make this up? I'm like, no, this is real. Breaking news is the best. uh it's nice to go to an event and see it there and then if you are fortunate enough to be invited to get like your hands on them before other people

and all that that's great that that's all that's all good but there really is nothing that beats being on an embargo and you felt this because we did it for the imax right again not the biggest product in the world absolute terror of that yes i found it horrifying sure but it's also okay so so that that is the uh the question about like you had to rename we had to name the file something different you don't want to mess up and and give away the secrets because you know apple is taking you into confidence and if you blow it you're never gonna get anything from apple ever again uh but so there's some pressure there but also it's uh it's kind of awesome to like i remember getting the readout of what all the features of the new imax were while i was in a cab like going to new york

city to do the interview and you know it's just kind of cool it's like here's this thing that the world doesn't know yet that you know it's uh that's pretty awesome thanks so much to that awesome question from j. You can send in a question to help us open an episode of the show by just tweeting with the hashtag SnellTalk. Some follow-up. Photoshop on the iPad is out today. Yes. And

Adobe's doing a big press thing. Their Adobe Max conference is going on right now. It is available as has been noted on this show and endlessly by lots of people i follow on twitter and seeing lots of articles written about this adobe photoshop on ipad still has a way to go it's i mean it's not 100 of photoshop at all but it is like the intent is that this is photoshop and it's going to open your psd files and it's going to uh it's going to open your PSD files and it's going to grow over time as they get more and more

features into it. But this is the idea is that this is not some strange Photoshop spinoff product like we've had on iOS before. It's going to be real, but it starts here and it continues. I've also seen a lot of people who act like really surprised when Adobe rolls it out and says that you need to subscribe to get it because Adobe's, I don't know where you've been but adobe's been on a subscription model for a very long time now and you know the the target audience for this is people who pay for photoshop and if you pay for photoshop then you can use photoshop on ipad and mac and windows and wherever else you want and use their cloud syncing if you want to do that. So, you know, I think there are no real surprises here. It's good that it's finally out. I wish it did more because, of course, don't we all wish it did everything? But they are committed to it,

and it's so good to have Adobe committed to a real Photoshop on iPad instead of these weird little side project Photoshops that we've had up to now. I will say my first attempt to use it, I tried to open a whole bunch of PSD files that I have on my server that I use to design like podcast art and stuff like that. And most of the like the first five I tried, it said I can't open this file is incompatible, which is weird because it's a PSD. And it opens fine in Photoshop on my Mac. And I don't know what's going on with that. Other PSDs that I went to later, I was able to open without any trouble. So I'm wondering whether that's a bug or if there is a file compatibility issue that they're not

properly describing because they're like, I don't know how to open this file. It's a PSD with maximize compatibility checked. So I don't know why that didn't work. So, you know, it's a 1.0. It's literally a 1.0 version, but it's exciting that it's here. I'm glad. And it says something about the iPad that they're embracing it

and they're embracing the Apple Pencil. And it's a good way to start. And then doubling down on this, they announced today that in 2020, we will be getting Illustrator on the iPad as well. So Adobe is being aggressive. They're moving. They have work to do, as you said, but they are moving towards the iPad becoming a very serious platform for them as they are bringing their key tools to the product.

It's about time. Speaking of which, do you want to talk about Dungeons & Dragons, Jason Snell? Yeah, of course. Some important Dungeons & Dragons follow-up. Well, we have to mention this. So starting earlier this year, we streamed some D&D games that we were playing on your Twitch channel for playing for fun

because you and Tiff were playing, Tiff Arment, were playing Dungeons & Dragons in a group that included a whole bunch of other people, DM'd by Tony Sindelar, who's done a bunch of the games on Total Party Kill, on the Incomparable Network, our weekly Dungeons & Dragons actual play D&D podcast. And the follow-up is that today we dropped episode one of that it's episode 212 of total

party kill but it's the first episode of this new adventure with these new characters and if you would like to hear me and mike and tiff and james thompson and mike's wife, Adina and, uh, Lisbeth miles, who, uh, if you listen to, especially like Dr. Who podcast, you know who Liz is.

Um, we are all playing dungeons and dragons together. Other than me, I think everybody is basically a first time or first time in decades, D and D player. So that's kind of fun. They're sort of new players with new characters in a new adventure. And we had a lot of fun.

So it's mostly uk people with a few token americans and uh and the first episode dropped today and then they will be weekly from here on out for the next i don't know a few months at least yeah it's been wonderful to play um and uh i really hope that people will enjoy it as many of us stumble our way through dungeons and dragons for the first time so yeah, it's a good jumping on point. I mean, so it's episode 212 of Total Party Kill, but if you just start with that one and then listen weekly, you will get this story.

And you can go back and listen to the other stories later. That's great. But this one starts here, no previous knowledge required. And it's worth just checking out for Jamesames thompson's episodic uh lego dioramas that he's oh yeah we should mention so what we did uh james got really excited about this and in a couple of ways that are interesting uh one is he he loves lego and so he built lego versions of all of our characters which was fun um and the the show art is of like a lineup of all the characters in lego form but what we decided to do kind of after the fact is James thought,

what if I built a scene from every episode in a Lego diorama and took a picture of it? And so every episode has an accompanying kind of Lego image of something that happened in that episode, which is hilarious. image of something that happened in that episode, which is hilarious. Also, those who are wondering, if you listen especially, how it is that James has written an entire app where you roll dice and yet had not played D&D before doing this since he was a kid. The answer is that we started recording this so long ago that he bought a bunch of dice because he was excited about playing dnd and we talked about dice and we talked about uh there should be a dice rolling app and then he wrote the app so now that app is out for every apple platform but this uh this season of tpk is actually where james got the inspiration to do that yep and you can also hear as that unfolds

in past time so i guess we'll check it out it's a lot of fun i hope that you enjoy it if you do check it out so there you go apple earnings time jason oh boy money money money money now everybody who listens to this show loves i that i love to talk about this. I saw somebody say this recently on Twitter, and I completely agree. They said they were a business nerd, and I think I am one of those types of people. All right. You worked at a bank. I'm not surprised. It's just I am interested in the way that businesses operate, which is like one of the

reasons that I enjoy Upstream, because it's like this is a new business venture for a lot of these entertainment companies. They're changing their business, right i find it fascinating but we are going to devote far less time than usual to this today because we have so much to talk about but i will give the headlines so uh this is for apple's q4 results right but it's not kind of the q4 it's financial q4 fourth fiscal quarter right so ending uh the end of september so just after the iphones came out so they were at 64 billion dollars in revenue which is up from 62.9 billion year over year biggest revenue quarter in the fourth quarter ever which is you know only by a little but it's once again there is so often the quarterly revenue number is a record, and it was again. But check this one out.

$13.7 billion in profit down from $14.1 billion in profit a year ago. What does that mean, Jason? It means they are spending more money on stuff. And this came up in the analyst call. You know, they're buying TV shows. They're investing in R&D and a bunch of stuff. And basically the CFO, Luca Maest my street sort of shrugged and said yep that's what we do we we are investing in r&d because we got to stay on the cutting edge and

then we're investing in the services stuff because we think it's really important and so yes that's that's the long and short of it who needs 13 billion dollars in profit like what company needs that like what are you doing with it? You know? Like, spend it on stuff. It's good. I think that's good. I think that's good business. Spend it on stuff.

The iPhone is down 9% year over year. Bad, but not so bad. So I'll read a quote. This came from the Six Colors event Twitter account. iPhone revenue was $33 billion in profit. 9% decline is a significant improvement over 15% decline in the first three quarters of the year. Significant upswing is mirrored in positive reviews and response to the new iPhones.

So it seems like Apple is turning the tide a little bit, but it's still not perfect. You got to love it when down is up, right? But this is, we talked about this in a different context about the iPad a couple of years ago, where we were trying, the iPad kept going down, and we were trying to find a silver lining, like any sign that the iPad was going to hit bottom. And then there were like two or three quarters in a row where the iPad's decline declined.

And we're like, yeah, it went down by less. And, you know, as ridiculous as that is, it was a positive sign, and it did actually turn around. It's the, you know, it has slowed its descent, and now it's not climbing, but you've got to slow your descent before you can start to climb, right? Well, that's where the iPhone is. It was down, but it was down substantially less than it was down the first three quarters of this fiscal year. And that is generally a sign. And I think they said that September looked really good and September would have been the only month where the new phones were on sale at all so they're basically saying yeah we think that

this is turning the tide and that the phone is going to a better place even though it was still down i'm super intrigued to see what q4 looks like for the iphone yeah i mean we'll right it's holiday quarter and it's three three full of their new iPhones for us to analyze. They're positive about it, but there's a lot of range. Their guidance for next quarter is about $5 billion wide. And it goes from being sort of like up a little to being their biggest quarter of all time. And those are the two edges of the guidance there. So, you know, they're they're being careful with it. But they definitely think that it's possible that they will have an all time record quarter next quarter.

Yeah. And if they do that, that has got to be on the back of of stronger iPhone sales. So I would expect that this is the strategy of the 11 that it has worked right that the the iphone 11 strategy is paying is paying off that that seems to be the implication again the numbers here don't really relate the whole story because it's only the first couple of weeks of iphone availability happening here but um they they know it's one of these things, the results are about September, but they know what October looked like too. And so when they talk about like they're positive and they see positive signs and all of that, you know, I feel like they wouldn't do that

if they knew that it actually wasn't true over the long run. So I think that there's some information here behind the scenes that they're using to say yeah this is that we're encouraged by what's going on in the early days with the iphone but there's not a lot of iphone sales in here so we're kind of extrapolating and you know this is what apple wants us to think is that the iphone 11 seems to be doing a lot better than the 10s which is not i think not surprising I think it makes sense. But I mean, this for me, though, you know, this number, it further underscores the point of why Apple put the phone out, even though iOS wasn't ready.

Like, just a couple of weeks of having that can really, like, just having the iPhones in the quarter, like, this quarter is a big help for them. And if they wouldn't, it would have been significantly worse as a decline than any other quarter this year, which is not what they would have wanted. Probably. That's my read on it, anyway. Apple announced another strategy that

will boost multiple revenue streams for them. 0% financing for iPhone with Apple Card. If you buy an iPhone with an Apple Card, you will get 24 months 0% with 3% cash back. So you'll still three percent cash back so you still get your cash back and you get to pay it off over 24 months uh with no interest this is kind of like

the iphone upgrade program but you get apple care instead of cash back but this is just like another you know like we talk about the many many many ways apple's trying to convince you to buy an iphone this is another one and one of the analysts actually asked Tim Cook in the call after the results came out about services. And they said, well, what about bundles? And what about giving it away for free, like you did with Apple TV Plus? And Tim was very much like, well, you know, we did it for this one, because we want to build the subscription number. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. But it's kind of a one-time thing. Maybe if we see another opportunity to give something away, we will as a gift.

He calls it a gift to the users. But don't plan on it. Giving away services is not our plan. It was just our strategy for this one. But then he said, but about the broader idea of iPhones as a service, which the analyst asked about, he said, you know, we do the upgrade program and we're doing this 0% financing thing with Apple cards. Like we're trying stuff, we're doing stuff. He said, for a lot of people, the upgrade program is exactly what you're describing. It is a service for iPhones and we hope to do more of that. So that's definitely strategically something that they like. And it's interesting to see them using the Apple Card and

saying, you know, Apple Card has other features. Like Apple Card has a feature like this financing feature for buying iPhones. And, you know, they're going to play with that part of their product mix too. The Mac is down 5% year over year. Doesn't seem a surprise. You know, after listening to these calls for all this time, I end up with a bunch of jargon that only ever really gets used in the financial sector and in these calls. So the Mac thing is what we would call a tough compare. Tough compare is- Why do they need to talk this way?

Just say comparison. I don't know. There's already a word. It's a tough compare, Mike. It's just, the point here is that last year during the same time, Apple introduced a bunch of laptops that sold well. And what they're saying is,

you know, we didn't introduce anything new this year during the same period. And so that's a sales spike last year that we didn't introduce anything new this year during the same period. And so that's a sales spike last year that we didn't have this year. And that's why it's down. They did say that in a bunch of regions that Mac was up for the whole fiscal year Mac was up. In a bunch of regions, it was the best quarter or the best year. I think in Korea and the U.S., it was the best Mac revenue year of all time, they said. or the best year. I think in Korea and the US, it was the best Mac revenue year of all time, they said. And then there were a bunch of other places where the fiscal fourth quarter was the

best fiscal fourth quarter for Mac. So they're cherry picking numbers a little bit, but basically they're like, yeah, it's down 5%, but that's really because of what we announced last year that we didn't do this year because we're not on an annual cycle with that stuff. But we're happy with it and it actually had a great overall year. And in certain regions, it did very, very, very well. So it's one of those things that it is the Mac down. I don't like to see the Mac down, but there is truth to that, that they're comparing it to a year where they introduced new stuff people bought because they were excited about it. And this quarter, they didn't do that. so how are you gonna sell tough compare mike that's what i'm saying tough compare yeah definitely definitely i think it's worth you know just playing a little fanfare and uh

a little congratulations to the only product line that apple makes like of their computers which is up year over year ipad a good old friend ipad oh the ipad the only one the only one 17 percent good work ipad we're really proud of you uh ipad's doing really well this year really well which is fantastic news i'm very happy yeah i actually i think this was one of those things where they cited how that all the new iPads, but especially the iPad Pro are doing well. And that's interesting to me because the iPad Pro is not a new product, right? It's a year old now and they didn't update it and they said it's doing great. And I think that is, that's interesting.

But the iPad, yeah, they seem to have really uh the ipad and and with their new collection of different ipad models at different price points and all that the ipad is uh yeah it's weird it's a little weird uh because they're the one that was down for all that time and now the ipad is bouncing back it's nice and you know i say it's like that ipad pro 11 inch ipad pro i think is my favorite apple product ever made yeah it's i love my 12.9 iPad Pro. Every now and then, when I'm moving it from one case to another, I'll take it out of the case or I'm using it outside the case. I'll be like, oh, this is so good. It's so good. I should say, I use the 12.9 every day, right? I don't use the 11 every day, but I think the 11 is the sweet spot for basically everybody. I think the 12.9-inch

iPad Pro is an edge case. I really think you have to be a very serious iPad user to want to have that device. I think the 11-inch is the perfect medium. Oh, sure. But for people like me and you, the 12.9 makes so much sense because we use it all the time.

Beautiful, beautiful edge case. Yes. But yeah, that 11-inch iPad Pro is absolutely fantastic. Now, check this one out. Wearables is up 54% year over year. That is absolutely fantastic. Now, check this one out. Wearables is up 54% year over year. That is absolutely massive. Jason, is this all Apple Watch? I mean, is it AirPods too?

Exactly. This is the important thing, right? This is AirPods and Apple Watch. Two products that we can assume are growing, right? I don't think it's one or the other. It is other products, right? So it's also accessories. And so maybe it's just a lot of cases and a lot of Apple TVs, right?

Sure, yeah, that's what it is. It's watches and some AirPods too. Now, of course, this does not include AirPods Pro, right? So like, think about that going into the holidays. Right, and it only includes a couple weeks of the new Apple Watch. So, yeah, this is why they renamed this

category and why they broke it out and it's primed for a lot of growth. And the Apple Watch has been very successful. This is a story that we're not going to talk about today, but Google buying Fitbit, I've seen a lot of stories about, you know,

the current state of affairs of the smartwatch market. And, you know, the truth is the smartwatch market is the Apple watch, like the Apple watch people roll their eyes at like, Oh, Apple watch that didn't turn into a product, the size of the iPhone,

which it never was going to do, but like it's extremely successful. And nothing else in that category is really particularly successful. Although Fitbit has a lot of fans. So yeah, more power to the Apple Watch. In revenue, the wearables now accounts for 10%. iPad is 7%. Mac is 11%.

Yeah, wearables is about to go to be a bigger business for Apple than the Mac. Isn't that wild? And that will happen. i think that is happening in the q1 results yeah like so like i like last year in uh the in q1 they did uh 7.3 billion i bet that hits 10 for for this year could be i wouldn't be surprised to see that and then of course the other one did they have a big and services set a new record it's 12.5 billion dollars now up from 10.6 year over year services now accounts for 20 of apple's revenue so it is bigger than the mac and the ipad apple quoted 450 million paid subscriptions across all their services and they expect to pass 500 million in 2020 yeah it's it's enormous it grows every single quarter this was the biggest services revenue quarter ever because it's the latest services revenue

quarter and that's the thing for apple a company that is extremely seasonal because we're headed into that holiday quarter the holiday quarter is always the biggest quarter of the year for apple a company that is extremely seasonal because we're headed into that holiday quarter the holiday quarter is always the biggest quarter of the year for apple it has never i think not been at least in in recent memory services doesn't do that because these are monthly and annual recurring fees yeah they just keep going up because they get because of two things one is because apple keeps expanding the installed base and they talk about this there are there are more mac users than ever there are more iphone users than ever and there are more uh ipad users than ever and they say like half of all

ipad sales are to new users they say something like that yeah and there's a replacement thing going on where what happens is when you buy a new iPhone or iPad or Mac, some percentage of those don't go out of service, right? They get resold. They get turned back in and refurbished and resold. They get handed down in a family. And so even if iPhone sales are down and Mac sales are down, the total number of in-use devices is up. And that will mean that services revenue, presumably, by some percentage will go up. And the other thing is the average revenue per user is going up, which is Apple is making more services and selling those services to its users. And those are the reasons why service revenue just keeps going up. ARPU. ARPU. That's average revenue per user, ARPU, which I wrote a little thing about that is just sort of like Apple is really trying to walk a line there where they want the business guys, they want the analysts to be enthusiastic that a craven company that is focused on squeezing money out of their existing customers instead of, you know, pleasing them and giving them things they love.

And so they walk this line and they've been doing it for a few years now where they will talk about increasing services revenue, but they always try to couch it in, you know, we're improving the experience for customers and our customers really love these services and you know yes that increases our our poo oh terrible um this is terrible that you thought a tough compare was bad our poo is the toughest compare of all the compares that is the worst one uh i mean i expect one of the big drivers for this quarter is apple arcade right Apple Arcade becoming a new thing right like that's all new money and the more and more people I talk to in my life like and I still agree with this from the start

like talk about how great value that is and that is a like Apple Arcade is an incredible service like they're adding five new games every single week and they have since it began the quality of the games is so good like that was an absolute home run in my opinion so and there's not a lot not a lot of apple arcade revenue in this quarter because everybody started with a trial so the apple arcade revenue is still to come i think it might i think i'm a little bit

skirted in there i think a little bit may have gotten in. I think I got charged quite recently, but who knows. But yes, that is, of course, correct, right? That we may have not even seen the full effect of Apple Arcadia. Well, it launched in September and was a month trial. And so the credit cards weren't charged until October, which is out of the scope of this. Oh, wow. That's a great point.

And I'm very keen to see what the next quarter is going to look like. Wow. Okay, that could be big. I guess I'm going to make a prediction here, Mike. I'm going to make a wild prediction. Services revenue will be up. Oh, come on, Jason. Yeah.

Get out of here. Get out of town, Snell. You've lost your mind. Up, up, up. All right, that is Apple earnings. We're going to talk about Apple TV+. We have been destined to do. But before we do, let me talk about Eero.

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You can get your Wi-Fi fixed as soon as tomorrow. Go to Eero.com slash Ahoy and enter the code Ahoy at checkout to get free overnight shipping of your order. That's E-E-R-O.com slash Ahoy, code Ahoy at checkout to get your Eero delivered with free overnight shipping. You've got to use that URL to get the offer, Eero.com slash Ahoy and the code Ahoy. Our thanks to Eero for their support of this show and all of relay fm so jason this is the time this is probably the most important upstream segment maybe more than just an upstream segment this is the launch i guess impressions of apple tv plus it is now available um i wanted to uh break it down a little bit we're to talk about the service

and then touch on the shows themselves. There's kind of a couple of different topics. I have lots of thoughts about using Apple TV+, because I've had a particularly difficult weekend. I guess the first thing that I wanted to mention, I don't know if you saw this, push notifications on every device. Who even knew that the Apple TV could show badges?

I didn't know that. Did you know that? I don't know i i know i think i have seen that before but yeah i had a little badge one badge on my apple tv and every single device that i own uh i also got emails i got emails telling me i have to try apple tv plus after i'd already watched one of the shows yep um so apple very being very serious in this i kind of don't like it when they do that in the same way that i don't like that uh you be you are if you if you take advantage of the one-year trial like i have because i can right i bought an apple product this year so i could take advantage of that one-year trial i will be charged immediately afterwards and it's on monthly so i can cancel it but there's something about that that i kind of just this doesn't sit right with me i can't explain it i know this is like what you do if you have a subscription business but i don't know this is something i don't like about it but you

know it is what it is yeah i mean that's the that's the the trade-off right i think is they're building a list and uh then they want you to pay and i'm sure i mean i'm gonna want to pay and i have no doubt about that but it still frustrates me a little bit then they want you to pay. And I'm sure, I mean, I'm going to want to pay and I have no doubt about that, but it still frustrates me a little bit. But I wanted to start watching these shows on Saturday and I couldn't watch them for about the first 36 hours that I was trying to watch them because every time I tried to press play

on one of the TV shows, I would get an error telling me that Apple TV was not available in my region, which of course is completely incorrect. So not only is that an unhelpful error, just to say the video isn't available to watch in the country or region you're currently in, it is categorically wrong, because it is. I live in the UK, right? I also found, did you know, there are some countries that are not getting Apple TV Plus, including Romania. I know this because I have friends in Romania who are very upset.

I can't work out what the reasoning is behind that. Apple owns this content. They can put it wherever they want. It may be local regulations. You may have to get approval. You may have to have a certain amount of content that's created in the region. There are lots of different restrictions.

I was wondering if it might be a language thing in some places like they haven't got the captions or they haven't got yeah they don't they don't have all the all the romanian audio and therefore they can't launch there yeah could be but it's you know but i just found the the errors i mean there were many errors that many people were getting of trying to watch this and it's just like it just felt like a disaster to me like i just couldn't watch the tv shows and it's very i was very annoyed about it because it was just like how many more bugs are you gonna give me apple like how many more like i'm getting frustrated at the fact that every single week on this show i am bringing a new issue that i'm facing but they are things that

are happening to me and i want to share them but it's like it's just very frustrating but anyway moving on from that, I got it to work on Sunday and I've watched as much of the content as possible. We'll talk about that in a bit. I found it very peculiar that they don't have one of those, like if you're watching a show,

the immediate countdown to start the next episode. You know what I mean? Like Netflix has this, Amazon Prime has this. It just starts ticking down. And after five or 10 seconds, the next episode will begin. They have this little drawer that pops up from the bottom to recommend new up next content to you. But sometimes that didn't even have the next episode of the show

that I'm supposed to be watching, which is like I was in like episode two of For All Mankind. And then it pops up and recommends that I start Dickinson. It's like, what about episode three of the show i am currently watching uh my if uh if i ever stopped watching went back to the menu and started the episode again it would exactly start the episode again would not remember my place um they do have a skip intro which i know todd vasir is probably very happy about no sure not uh apple tv plus the app is it's designed nicely right like i think things are laid out like the apple tv plus section of the tv app is fine right like i found the design of it

fine but the actual functionality uh is still lacking and it's kind of hilarious you know like apple you are the company that makes this you should have made a better experience than this one yeah i think it's interesting that we spent so much time here talking about like apple making tv shows and what that means and how they're going to handle, you know, what the standards are and can they do it and how do they roll that out and all of those things and didn't give as much attention to the idea that they have to roll it all out inside the TV app and the TV app has a lot of issues and that relying on the TV app might be the biggest impediment in the launch of the service. But that feels like it's the case. That TV app,

for some people who are very app-centric, this will be their first experience with the TV app, which is part of the reason Apple's doing this, right? Part of the reason Apple TV shows, Apple TV Plus exists, is to get people in the TV app because they want the TV app to be the central hub for this. They want to drive. They want to sell you channels. They want to drive you into other other content from the TV app. And then they want to be able to have their stuff there, too. And it's a beautiful thing that everything is all combined together. Great. The problem that so there are sync problems. I know we've heard from a bunch of people about it. I definitely experienced that where you watch five minutes of a show and then you go back later and it starts you at the beginning again. You're like, well,

wait a second. That's not, and this seems like table stakes, right? Like all of the streaming services that I use are pretty good at syncing properly to where I last saw the show. that I use are pretty good at syncing properly to where I last saw the show. And there's the UI issue too, which is, you know, the Apple TV app was built as this kind of neutral purveyor of lots of different shows from lots of different sources. And now that Apple's got their own service, I expected Apple to be a little more in your face in the app saying, here is Apple TV Plus. You have it. And if you don't have it, they're advertising it, but like you have it, here are the shows. And you can get there. You can scroll down and find a kind of not particularly aggressively labeled thing that will get you a list of what's on Apple TV Plus. If you scroll down to discover to Apple TV Plus, you can click on that and you will see all the

shows. And they're promoting their shows sort of within Up Next and within What to Watch, but they're doing it with other shows too. And I've definitely heard from a lot of people who open the TV app having gotten Apple TV Plus and are like, where is it and i think it's kind of funny that i appreciate apple's you know whatever objectivity or something and saying well you know we're not just this isn't just about us it's about the whole tv experience including all the other content but there should probably be something at the top that is screaming here are the apple tv plus shows that are available right now and you know mine didn't do that apple tv plus could be a legitimate section in the top navigation section

you could have apple tv plus tv shows right like you could like movies you know right right and and you know be on the watch now And just making it a little more obvious than it is. Because yes, you can scroll through and see some different shows and all that. I'm just a little surprised because when you open the TV app, when Apple TV Plus launches, and what I got was,

I got a bunch of movies I've been watching and TV shows that I bought and have been watching and various things in the up next and in the what to watch the same way. It's like, oh, well, you know, here's a thing from CBS All Access. And here's a thing from HBO that you've that you've watched and like, okay, but, you know, where are the Apple TV shows, and then you scroll down and you get it. I'm just I'm surprised. And although I applaud the restraint, because I think Apple's got partners, and the TV app is supposed to be more

than just Apple TV Plus at the same time, especially when you're launching and you're, you've got new people, uh, maybe using this app for the first time, making it really, really super obvious that here is the list of everything you get for being an Apple TV plus subscriber, uh, is probably something you should do. And they didn't do it. Unless the idea is that Apple TV Plus shows are just meant to kind of like sprinkle in more content into the TV app, the richness of the TV app. But I don't think they're spending billions of dollars

for it to just be the leavening inside of the TV app. So yeah, I was perplexed by that and by some of the technical shortcomings. Who knew that Apple would launch a new TV service? And one of the big things that we'd be talking about is that they didn't do the technical part. You say that though, but in hindsight, looking at the last year, that's not a surprise. Well, I mean, well, that's the thing is I feel bad about it because it's sort of like I took my eye off the ball because I was so focused on them making these shows and what were the shows going to be like.

And I should have spent more time thinking, TV app going to be better or not? Maybe not. Definitely not. But the most important part is the content. So let's talk about the content. Start with the morning show, which I feel like is what apple is publicly showing to be its crown jewel in this right now um i think we

all this i assumed it would be c but i think it seems like a lot of the promotion that i have seen has been focused around the morning show and i think that's because of the start the names they have attached to it right jennifer anderson reeves witherspoon steve corral it's big right people know those people know at least one of them big show uh i'm gonna start off by saying i've watched all of this and i absolutely loved it loved it fantastic tv show um i both me and nadina were like cannot wait for more um it felt like a very intellectual show we're like constantly pausing it to discuss what we're seeing and talking about what we're feeling um i will say that like over the first three i'm pleased they had all three episodes because i think it it needs that to kind

of like the story to be really pulled apart um and as well for you to feel the pressure in the show like it feels like a pressure cooker and you need i think to watch all of it in my opinion to get that and and i think that's why a lot of the reviews right are like saying oh episode three it starts to turn around and that is really where the story turns up and but i enjoyed it from the beginning um yeah i've only seen episode one so i haven't i'm really keen to see how you feel about it all right when you watch all of it um it's very dramatic the production values are very high it looks i think it looks yeah it looks great it's a beautiful tv show looks great great cast you can tell they spent a lot of money

they spent a lot of money on the production and they spent a lot of money on the actors, for sure. I think Jennifer Aniston is absolutely fantastic in this show. It feels like she is the lead of the show. I feel like that wasn't necessarily clear, but the show is really, at least again in the first three episodes, it's very focused around her. Yeah, she's certainly at the center of it. And the inciting action for the show

is all about people kind of like coming and going and whirling around her and she's at the center. Whether that's the case in the long term, it's unclear. But yeah, it feels at least in the early going that this is not a sort of joint effort of Aniston and Witherspoon or Aniston and Witherspoon and aniston witherspoon and corral

but it really is aniston at the center but that may change over time because the story the way the story is working you know it certainly could be going in that direction yeah it could flip and i think i think it probably it parts in the show the focus will change um there are apple products everywhere in this show which is of course it's kind of funny to me. Yeah, the first, it made me laugh. The first five minutes is literally just everybody getting phone calls on their iPhone. Yeah. And texts on their iPhone. But it's realistic, I guess, but it's still just kind of funny.

I wonder if I would have noticed it as much if I didn't know Apple was making it. If it was an HBO show, I would not have thought about it. Well, I would have thought like, well, maybe Apple's paying for product placement. But it's not as ridiculous except in the context of it being an Apple show and realizing that everybody's got their iPhones. It is ridiculous when they show all of the notifications from Apple News. From Apple News, yes.

That pushes it. That is a, you know, of all the unrealistic things in this show. You know, I liked it. I'm kind of torn on it. I will watch more. You know, it's fun to have a show that's all about like people standing up and pontificating about the importance of journalism and the media and all of that um at the same time you know it's like i feel pandered to a little bit at the same time i also find it kind of unrealistic and ridiculous and um also

kind of dated they're they're it's funny too because the show knows that it's kind of dated there is they actually talk about like people like the internet and streaming and network tv being like i found that to be interesting though on a cliff i like that i i like that like you know that they're kind of like well we know where this industry is going and i kind of like the inception moment of like yeah it's because of apple tv plus right like that's why broadcast television right is on the way out i kind of like that the question is is how how much of that is hanging a lantern on it versus actually grappling with those issues and i say that because there's that scene but there's also the scene where in the first episode where the slimy

network executive played by billy crudup perfect he's great he is super super creepy slimy guy um he you know so we talk about that and yet he goes on this on this kind of extended rant with the producer of the show about how the two hosts of the morning show are like mom and dad and we you know we need to have this they're their mom and dad figures and they have kind of attention um and and if you lose one of those figures you can't just bring in a new mom or a new dad. You have to rethink the whole thing. And he's maneuvering to get one of the characters. I'm not going to spoil it for people who haven't seen it.

Get one of the characters off the show. The problem with that is I'm sitting there thinking there is literally nobody watching this show who is so young that they would think these characters are mom and dad. watching this show who is so young that they would think these characters are mom and dad. Everybody who's watching network TV in the morning is either the age of these characters or a lot older. But I think that that's one of those. So that's, that's the problem here is like,

they want to make this show about TV and they can recognize that it's not what it was, but at the same time they kind of can't because it it's like there are not young people, I think. Maybe somebody from the Today Show can tell me about their demographics, but I don't think there are a lot of people watching morning TV thinking that the main anchors are mom and dad. Okay. More like they're their kids, right?

Because the fact is TV viewers are older now. So, you know, it was stuff like that that i just kept thinking of that that it is it is nostalgic and unrealistic and it doesn't mean it can't be fun but i did my brain kept on being like really is this um but it looks great uh the only other the only another note i have through one episode which is i'm not sure i am ever gonna love a show that is essentially the sad lives of very rich successful people um and it's not my favorite and like there are moments in the first episode where the show really wants you to feel for jennifer aniston and i think to myself and she's like oh i could be ruined you oh, I could be ruined.

You know, my life could be ruined. And I'm sitting there thinking. I think that's interesting. I think it's interesting. Well, I like that they're showing how much money they have. I think that it is an interesting presentation

of a type of show like this. I know. And I don't think it bothers everybody, but I had those moments where it gets ramped up to be like, I'm ruined. This is the end of my life. And I'm like,

well, you've got millions and millions and millions of dollars. So your career might be ruined, but you know what? You're going to be fine. Right? Like there is that aspect of it. That's always back there,

which is, and sometimes people, you know, people want to watch shows that are about, about rich, successful people and the beautiful things that they've got. And I get all of that. But there are moments where I think to myself, oh, yes, I am very concerned about whether these incredibly rich people at the top of their careers might lose their jobs.

The assumption, though, that is all she cares about is money. And I don't think – so, like, my read of when she's saying that like my career is like it's not about money like she wants to work and if she gets pushed out and it's the same as like steve carell right yeah he because of his situation he can't get a job now and it's like well now he's lost because he has no career yeah so that's how i read it but i get well here we go where it gives you a lot to discuss right um my other my other notes about the show um and like i said i thought it was okay but um i am a little bit confused about what they're doing with the reese witherspoon character maybe more episodes will get me this sense because partly what they want to do is portray her as

being this person who's kind of like at the dead end and she's in this you know uh virginia cable news network and she can't even nobody likes her and she can't even get a job as an anchor um and and she gets invited at one point to be interviewed in new york and i had this thought of like it's really playing like there's this established person and then this new person is coming in to threaten them who is reese withers. And the way the script kind of reads it, I just think it's really weird because Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston, although not the same age, are very close in age. And Reese Witherspoon's character plays like she is a, like somebody in their 20s who is just starting out. They address this. This is addressed. And so I think the question for me is going to be, do they address that in a way that actually feels natural? Or do I look at that and say, oh, you needed to spackle over the fact that this doesn't really make a lot of sense.

And I remain open to it. If she is a washout and she keeps sabotaging her own career, then that or whatever the answer is, I'm looking forward to that. But in the first episode, it's sort of like, hmm, I'm not sure this character makes sense. Anyway, we'll see um and then my last note is just that uh no i know too much about the backstory here which is that this was a concept and then a whole bunch of me too stuff happened including matt lauer from the today show and um there was some change and they wanted to address that and that's's how Steve Carell's character comes in. And my understanding is they changed showrunners at one point. And so the other thing that struck me because I know too much was seeing how this is kind of like they built a structure for a show

and then they put another little structure inside the structure and said, that's our show, which is interesting and could actually lead to interesting places but i don't know it's it's uh i am fascinated that this is what everybody thinks of as the uh as the the big prestige top line face of apple tv plus it is it's fascinating that this is that show but um you know i thought it was okay i like it a lot i want to see how you feel about it once you've seen all of it that's going to be some good follow-up i i just wonder if your opinion will change um especially there was like some of the things that you mentioned that are like weird parts of the story i think they do get cleared up okay but but i'll see if they are to a level at which you

think is whether it feels natural or not right that's the that's the real question so so no i'll watch more i i am you know i'm a sucker for the big uh like i said big gauzy well-lit warmly lit beautiful people interesting stories talking about how great the media and journalism is and stuff like that but nothing is more for you than for all mankind it's true it's it is it is extremely my jam i also really love this one love this very good um this show really plays with you a lot uh there's lots of twists lots of turns because it is that old history you know like they can do anything yeah that that uh in episode two you really get that sense that they want to it's very clear from the very beginning of episode one that we're in an alternate history that we're we're in things are not happening the way that they happened in our world but episode two goes to great lengths

to show you that all the things that seem like they're happening the way they happened in our world anyway are not right like and that is a good moment in terms of setting the stakes and saying you need to stop assuming that history is going to more or less follow the track that it did because it's not going to i really like how they use archival footage in this show um that there's a lot of it right like they use a lot of it they they they use it sometimes just to inform us the viewer uh like they show sometimes this is who this person was in history and is who they are in the show sometimes it's used in the show itself right like they they show archival footage on the television and into like splice it with new footage it's kind of interesting

right yeah and and it's very well done where they will they will put in characters that need to say things that are very specific that to the show and they will do that but they also will use archival footage and there are a few cases they've got like a nixon impersonator and they keep playing nixon tapes and they show nixon at times but they don't they don't try to have the the mouth uh match up because it's like you know it's it's they cut away or it's just nixon talking or or uh ted kennedy at one point and they just try there's an i dream of genie episode that is uh not about reality but the way it's played in the episode is that it is about reality, which is amazing. So some really, I will tell you as a space nut that they did their research here.

In fact, I'll put a link in the show notes. Liftoff episode 99 is all about Apollo 10. And watching the show, I'm like, oh my, they, yeah, they got it. They like, they've got the details about Apollo 10 and the, you know, watching the show, I'm like, Oh my, they, yeah, they got it. They like,

they've got the details of Apollo 10. They changed the names of those two astronauts because those are two of the main characters and they're going to take them in places that I think they felt uncomfortable using real people. So they changed their names. And those are the people who are played by, uh, Mr.

Sad spy and Mr. So happy. I didn't know he was in the show and he's not just in it. He has a great role. Yeah Spy and Mr. Altered Corbin. So happy. I didn't know he was in the show. And he's not just in it. He has a great role. I'm so excited. Because I was so sad because Patriot got cancelled. And so to see...

What is the guy's name? Michael Dorman. Michael Dorman, right. To see him have such a starring role, right? Like he's kind of like the supporting male character. I was really pleased about that. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And the other guy is the Altered Carbon guy. Joel Kinnaman. Joel Kinnaman, yeah. He's also in House of Cards. That's where I know him from. And some slow TV too. I forget what else he's been in. But so uh uh yeah i thought it was great um i thought the stakes were high i think they're it's an interesting combination of real people characters and fictionalized characters i was

so surprised to see nil i'm strong puzzle order and i just figured they were going to go all fake right like it gets to a point and it's like this isn't real and they just like don't bother touching on actual history so i was really excited to see that i thought that that was a really cool edition deke slayton oh he's a real guy uh deke slayton the the flight control he's the guy who played by ed harris in apollo 13 failure is not an option he gives a version of that speech in uh in here so that's a real guy no all the other ancillary characters more or less are people from history that they're that they're bringing in the characters that are very clearly invented they give uh new names to but a lot of the people around them are are actual historical figures and they seem to be doing some remixing of that too where they've got

they've got people who uh exist in reality that are uh that they're bringing in as time goes on with slightly different roles. It's very interesting. Wernher von Braun is a good example too, where he's the head of basically the rocket efforts at NASA. He builds the Saturn V. And his history working in Nazi Germany is brought up to destroy him. And at one point in one of these episodes, it's like, that's all true.

Like it didn't come out in that way at that time. But those are all the issues about Wernher von Braun is like who worked in his factories and there were people in horrible prison camp, from in horrible like prison camp conditions. And did he see them? And he always denied that he saw them, but it, it kind of strands credulity and like it all is being used in a different way in the show,

but it's all based on historical fact. And I think that's very interesting too. So I loved it. I, of course I loved it is the thing. So I don't know how to judge it beyond that, but I thought it was really interesting. And the fact that they are,

are continuing this diversion divergence from history and following it where it leads. And the other thing I'll say about it is for a show, it's so easy to do a show or a movie about the space program in the 60s and have it be an entire cast of white men, because that's who it was at NASA in that period, is almost entirely white men. And then there's like, but over here, there was hidden figures. And over here were the Mercury 13, were the women who took all of the tests for the Mercury program to say that women should be astronauts too. And then they were just shunted aside. And this show addresses all of that.

And in a very interesting way where it basically says oh once this inciting event in for all mankind happens then the doors can get blown open basically the doors get blown open because of that inciting event and things really change and so you see a lot of people who are not the kind of people we tell astronaut stories about having their stories told which is also pretty cool uh i'm getting big madman vibes from this show um like sure i mean it's at this point it's a period show it's late 60s early 70s and and they they have uh they have leaned into it for sure but like it's not just like the fact that the cars and the clothes and the vibe is like all of it's so beautiful. It has fantastic music as well. Music is great. Really great music. But just the way that the story is playing out,

where it's looking at the people and the families and the interdynamics between all of that, I find that really interesting. I am so surprised at how fast the story is moving, but it makes sense based on what we know about the show. So in the first three episodes they span like 10 years nearly yeah i think ron moore i don't know if it's 10 years but it's multiple years it's like two two or three years but i think there was a story about how ron moore

like sketched out his seven-year plan for the show or whatever and that it's like the long arc of of history they will they will they will reach us and probably go past us right in time it feels like that's gonna happen so yeah exactly right and we'll we'll see some of these characters continue maybe but it might be the kids of some of these characters or some of the characters introduced as kids who will become main characters already started doing right like yeah there's some there is some some moments there too okay um there's a lot of Apple TV talk. I haven't seen Sea and Dickinson, but you have, so we should very quickly find out what you think. I've seen one

episode of each. I was least keen to watch Sea, and I was 100% right. This show could not be less for me. It's very Game of Thrones-y, I guess, even though Idina, who also didn't like it, really disagrees with me because she loves game

of thrones but from my perspective uh armies running at each other and cutting heads off with swords that's game of thrones to me right and like i don't care for that kind of thing there's so much more violence and gore in this than i need and this show like we didn't really touch on the family-friendly thing this show is not family- didn't really touch on the family-friendly thing. This show is not family-friendly in any stretch of the imagination. It is violent. The language is strong. The themes are difficult.

And it's very sexual. So, you know, this is Apple's HBO show in that regard, right? Like, they have done all of those things. And I think that most of it is very gratuitous. And that's kind of what i don't appreciate in a game of thrones type show like to me it just feels like some things you're doing just for the sake of doing them and that's not what i like about television like you compare this against the other two shows and you'll see you might get an idea of like the type of content that i enjoy and C is not it.

It doesn't have to be for you. I'm looking forward to seeing it, I guess. But, oh, C. But it's something that I haven't watched it yet. The performances are good. The way that they deal with the site stuff is interesting. I found my level of intrigue for the story starting to rise towards the end of the first episode but i'm not going to be watching any more of it this show is not my jam what about

dickinson i did not know what to expect from dickinson because i didn't understand this show i i couldn't understand its purpose like do you know who emily dickinson is yes yeah yeah okay so she's an american poet so i don't know if they even yeah we read her poems don't worry we get it okay yeah uh but what i what i didn't understand about this show is what i'd seen from the trailers where it felt like that they were somehow for some reason merging period drama and modern drama together like the language the music the pacing it seemed very peculiar like i didn't understand what type of show they were making. But now when I watch it, I'm like, I like this.

The editing is super fast-paced. It is not at all like a period drama in the fact that it just looks like one. Everything else feels like modern teen drama. There is like, again, adult themes, but it plays in a way that makes more sense to me than in c um i really like like the music is incredibly unexpected because it's all modern right the editing is all modern they use like really interesting camera angles like

it is weird and interesting to mix these two things together but it's done in such a way that is really compelling and i think a lot of that focuses around hayley stanfield's performance she is very good and i think that is fitting the role very well she's a good attitude um i like the tone of this way more than i would have expected uh i think that it is i expect quite difficult to create a show like this because they are using Emily Dickinson's poetry as the way to inform the story and that must be

complicated right like you're working backwards and trying to create a world based on it but I really liked it I am definitely going to be watching more of it this is like a 30 minute show the rest are one hour so there's like 10 episodes or something while the rest are 3 yeah I'm going to be watching more of it this is like a 30 this is a 30 minute show the rest of one hour so there's like 10 episodes or something well the rest are three um yeah i'm gonna watch this one and i didn't think it was gonna be for me because i'm not really a period

like this kind of period drama guy like where it goes back to history like i don't know like downton abbey i can't even think of what you would call like that type of period drama because you refer to madman as a period drama now right which makes sense but but like that kind of like uh that time frame it wasn't really my kind of jam uh but the way that they mix the way that that's basically just set dressing for everything else is very interesting uh so i will be watching more of dickinson it was very entertaining yeah i'm i'm intrigued by the idea of mixing it like this and not having it be period drama that's not a period drama. It's a

thing. And I've actually heard very positive things. I think it also says something that this is the show that nobody talked about in advance. I mean, it was mentioned, but it was never. The other three were the ones where everybody's talking about, oh, they're doing this show and that show. And I feel like Dickinson, because it didn't have the expectations and it was a little bit of a

surprise it didn't have the star power either i mean i think that's one of the reasons the other three got the focus yeah but but i think uh i think i've seen a lot of positive buzz about it like people are surprised and pleased by it and i think that's uh one of the things that we're going to learn right is apple's going to learn some things about what the critics think but they're also going to learn about what their user base thinks in terms of which shows stick or not. And it's going to the other thing is we're not going to be able to tell for a year and a half, two years exactly what that means. Right. Because the first year plus of Apple TV Plus had to be bought in advance because it takes so long to produce TV. We are seeing shows that were bought two years ago.

So there will be a period of adjustment based on how people take to the service that will be kind of fascinating to watch. Also, and I think I brought this up next week, now that these shows are out, people in Hollywood who make TV can look at these and go, oh, I could do that show at Apple, where they might not have thought that before because of all the talk about that. They may look at the these and go oh i could do that show at apple where they might not have thought that before because of all the talk about that they may look at the shows and go oh yeah i i could

make this show at apple now that i know what it is i can make my show there i don't see how people were saying that they were only going to make family-friendly content because none of the content that they've released that is not a kid's show is family friendly so you know i don't really get where that was coming from uh i i mean my guess is it was somebody who was fired or given some notes and got really angry and uh thought that that was because of apple's policy. And it was them, not Apple, right? Or it was just for that show. Yeah, or it was a show that was intended as part of Apple's strategy for a family audience,

not Apple's strategy for an adult audience. And my theory is that this is actually about amazing stories, that the guys got fired off of amazing stories because they came into the project thinking they were going to do this edgy amazing stories for a modern audience and be you know different and we're going to blow all the doors off and then spielberg made the deal with apple and those guys were told no we wanted family friendly and they got angry about it but very clearly if you look at c and the morning show and for all mankind it's not really an issue on those shows so maybe it was just your show and if you're thinking oh apple only have uh adult content

it's not true it's just stuff that i've watched also the snoopy show and helpsters and ghost writer they're like three shows that are focused around family and stuff i will say for people who thought that apple tv plus would be a place for them to watch shows that are for grownups, but they don't have the violence and language that you find on so many streaming shows. there is within the first 30 seconds i would say of these shows it's very clearly uh not going to be something that is going to work for you if you don't if you can't handle violence or language or stuff like it's just these are modern streaming shows they really are they don't i would not be surprised if they had been on netflix or amazon yep they are completely in that style i'm gonna say for me i'm very happy with the content there are three television shows that i want to watch now uh from apple tv plus and i've only

watched four of them so the fact that i got a 75 success rate i think is much more than i would have given them six months ago so i think that that's really great and for me for all mankind is now on my list of like we're gonna watch that on friday when it comes out like i'm not good that's that to me is the ultimate endorsement is there are the shows i watch there's shows i let pile up and then i'll get back to them and then there are the shows that when there's a release i i am if it's a binge release i will be watching them every day until they're gone and if it's a weekly release i will watch it basically the day it comes out and that's a very small number of shows very small but uh for all mankind's on that list now do we know when

there will be more episodes i believe friday i think i think apple's plan is to do um weekly releases on fridays and then there'll be new shows every season i think i think maybe it's every few months every three months or something like that, but it's unclear how they're going to roll out new shows versus rolling out the weeklies. But it sounds like Fridays, they're going to just keep releasing new episodes. All right, so Apple TV+,

we're going to have more to say in the coming weeks for sure, but that is our initial impressions today. Wow. This episode is brought to you by Direct Mail, the easy-to-use email marketing app designed exclusively for the Mac to help you create and send great-looking email newsletters. Email marketing is still an incredibly cost-effective way to reach your customers and grow your business. And for the past 15 years, Mac users around the world have trusted the Direct Mail app to handle all of their email marketing needs. It is designed for the Mac, which means it's fast and easy to use

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That is directmailmac.com slash upgrade to get 10% off when you opt for a full feature plan. Our thanks to Direct Mail for their support of this show and RelayFM. So AirPods Pro, we spoke about them last week because they had been out. Now we have them. They're here. Been using them for close to a week.

I've used them in a bunch of different settings, both at home and traveling out and around London. And I am absolutely super pleased with these headphones. I love them very much, Jason. They're good. They're good. They're not going to be for everybody because of the price, because you can get the cheaper ones if that's what you need, and you don't need the features of these.

And everybody's got feelings about whether they like canal phones, which is what these essentially are. They're sticking in your ear canal versus earbuds that sit on the outside versus over-ear or on-ear headphones. Everybody's got a different take on it, but I think these will appeal to a broader group. And now you put the two products together and Apple is appealing to a wider group,

even within Apple AirPods separate from Beats. And I had never tried noise canceling in-ear headphones before. I'd only ever tried the over-ear kind, which is not my favorite kind of headphone. And I was impressed. Like I was really skeptical that putting little earbuds in your ears

was really going to block out enough of the sound, even with, you know, you throw in covering your ears and then also noise canceling. I was like, really? Is do it it's pretty good it's pretty good so i have been uh really impressed um when commuting so i tried them out going around london uh i like using transparency mode right this is where it lets sound come in when i'm kind of walking around i don't want to use noise cancellation when I'm like walking around in the streets, crossing roads and stuff like that. It doesn't feel right to me.

And I found that using transparency mode doesn't feel weird when you're using it for a long period of time. It doesn't feel like what I thought would feel like that microphones are bringing the sound in. It just feels like I can hear what's around me. I had some instances, like very few occasions, where something would seem louder than I would have expected,

but it was nothing that was a big concern. And then when I'm on the tube, like I'm on the underground, and it's super noisy, I just turn on noise cancellation, and it cuts basically all the noise out. It is not completely, which is actually good because I get a sense of when announcements and stuff are happening, but the droning sounds, the sounds of the trains, the sounds of other passengers, they're basically all gone.

Being able to so easily switch between those modes by using the force sensor, just squeezing the little stem of the AirPod is awesome. I love that button. I have more usability. I find it more comfortable. I have more actions available to me. It's exactly what I wanted. And being able to switch with those is brilliant. Yeah. And one of the things that I think is clever is they have taken the old

clicker from your headphone cable and put it in that thing. So hardwired, always available, that thing. So hardwired, always available are once to pause or play, double click to go forward, triple click to go back. Those are just there always. And then the customizable thing is the squeeze and hold. And you can set that to be different on the left and the right, but there's a lot less need to do customization because you've got play pause next and previous already built in and and so it takes a moment to remember like what surface you're squeezing and all of that but once you uh spend a little time with it it um it's it's really nice and i know you hate the slap the side of my head in order to advance tracks on the regular airpods and um i didn't hate it as much as you but this is so much better yeah it's and i hadn't realized how much i missed like

double tap to skip song i'm using it now it's like oh yeah this is nice rather than getting my phone out and skipping that way i was just you know, whacking the side of my head with my hands and it's not, it was not, it was not pleasant. This is, this requires a more fine gesture, right? You do have to reach up and touch and squeeze in order to do it. Whereas the old one, I get that some people will prefer that old gesture because you're just going, you know, bang, bang and off you go. But this is a nicer gesture. And I i know that you know it for a lot of people the old gestures were so bad that they just didn't want to use them because they didn't want to hit hit themselves in the ear yep um i am certainly aware of noise cancellation right like in the

sense of like previously i found it made me nauseated or like made me feel disorientated when I use it but it doesn't I'm aware when it's on but I don't feel weird using it I've found that I can use it for extended periods of time without as much bother as I've found in the past and a similar thing goes with the fit of the earphones I've always had a problem my left ear with canal phones right the earphones that go into your ears like the left one it either caused pain or that the earphone would eventually fall out um but i so like this is happening but it's way it's better right like it i found out over time using for long periods of time the left one starts to get a little looser but because airpods pro is so light it is way less frequent that i have to adjust it

like nothing's pulling on it. They are very light earphones, so I've found that I haven't needed to adjust as much. I'm using the small tips because they're the only ones that are comfortable for me, but I've found that even over many hours of use,

I've found them very comfortable. Next week, I'm going to be taking a plane trip and I'm really interested of how these things are going to sound with an airplane noise. I've tried them out with stuff like extractor fans, right? You know, like you have over the hob of a cooker at home or whatever, right? And turning those on and then putting on noise cancellation, and the amount that it takes away is mind-blowing.

And so I'm super intrigued to see what it's like to fly with these but i'm really really happy with the airpods pro i think they're fantastic and i haven't done my lawnmower test yet but i have to get a lawnmower test i will report back on the lawnmower test i gotta mow the lawn is what i'm saying i really do need to mow the lawn um i yeah i'm liking them so far. I have, you know, my right ear, I start to feel it after a while, but I honestly, I start to feel AirPods, standard AirPods after a while in a different way. Right. Cause they're digging into the, the area around my ear. And, um, this is sort of like pushing into the ear canal. So with

a different kind of discomfort, the fact is any headphones, if I wear for a very long time, I am going to be uncomfortable in some way, right? Depending on what kind of earphones they are. All of them will make me a little uncomfortable in some way. That's just how it is. But these are pretty comfortable. And I like the different effects. I'm somebody who is so used to completely blocking my ears with custom ear tips, which is what I use, like I'm using right now, that I always felt like the original AirPods were incredibly transparent. And it was nice because I felt like I was really much

more clear about what was happening around me. This transparency mode is nice. It's fascinating because it's this synthetic transparency. They're blocking your ears and then feeding sound in. And it isn't stereo. If there's a car coming from the right, you will hear it come from the right and then pass you, and then you'll hear it from the left. It's not like a mono thing. It is full stereo effect. It's very clever, very well done. And I think it's good that it's so easy to use because that's what Apple's trying to encourage you to do is use transparency in order to not block out the world when you shouldn't block out the world. I've also heard from a bunch of people who love the transparency mode because they can put their music on but kind of low and they get to just sort of have music playing in their world and nobody else hears it and they can still hear other people. But they can. Yeah, it's a good thing yeah i i really like it um i'm very very happy with them i think they're doing a they're doing a good job just better than i think they're gonna be they're gonna be popular right this is this is um they're they're killing it on

airpods like this is this is maybe the most impressive product that Apple has released in the last few years. I mean, the iPad pro I really love too, but like the AirPods, everybody loves the AirPods and they're, they're really good. And you know, there are going to be people who are audiophiles will be like, well, you know, this one could be a little bit better. But if you're, especially if you're in the Apple ecosystem, because of the auto pairing and easy switching and all of those things, um, those things. They're a great choice. And I say that as somebody who was always really skeptical about Apple's headphones over the years,

but with AirPods and now with AirPods Pro, like they're putting out some really good stuff. It is impossible to think of just how much is packed in those little tiny earbuds. It's like there's a 10 core, you know, audio processor in there. It's just, it's, it's amazing. All right. Today's episode is also brought to you by FreshBooks. If you are a

freelancer who needs to save some time, FreshBooks can do that by helping you simplify tasks like invoicing, tracking expenses, or getting paid online. With FreshBooks, you will find that your time is drastically reduced. And they've been doing this for their over 10 million customers who have paperwork to deal with, because business creates paperwork, invoices, receipts, all that kind of stuff. And I don't think it's ever fun for anyone, really. I don't find it fun. I don't know anybody who ever has to send an invoice to somebody who finds it a fun topic, like a fun little task to do. So it's great to have a tool that can make it easy for you. And then it's not just about the invoice itself. I mean, FreshBooks is fantastic for creating the invoices. They have a WYSIWYG system. So what

you're creating, how you're entering in the information, it is shown to you in the way that it will be received by your client. But then they also take out all of the busy work afterwards, which is checking with people if they've received your invoice, helping then they also take out all of the busy work afterwards, which is checking with people if they've received your invoice, helping them with how to pay you. All of that stuff is taken care of by FreshBooks. They can show you when it's been seen. They can chase up a client for you automatically if you want, and they can also give you and integrate many ways for you to get paid. I love FreshBooks. We have been using them at RelayFM for over five years since our company started. The first invoice that we ever sent

was sent via FreshBooks and that continues to this day. We have sent thousands over, I think we are approaching like 3,000 invoices sent with FreshBooks now. So I am a heavy user of this service and I absolutely love it. If you send any invoices, I mean, okay, we're approaching 2,500. I just checked. So we're fast approaching two and a half thousand invoices sent with FreshBooks. So trust me when I say that it is fantastic, because if it wasn't, I wouldn't have been using it for that amount of time. If you're listening to this show and you've yet to try out FreshBooks, give it a go. They're offering an unrestricted 30-day free trial

for listeners of this show. No credit card required. All you have to do is go to freshbooks.com slash upgrade and enter upgrade in the How Did You Hear About Us section. Our thanks to FreshBooks for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. We have a hashtag AskUpgrade question. First one comes

from Kurt. That was fast. The lasers weren't ready yet. I know. They weren't ready. The lasers, you know, they're just going to happen. They just got power back. They're ready to go. With the release of AirPods Pro, is there a use case

for the multi pod lifestyle i'm wondering about this i now have like my i have the uh second gen airpods right i have them here i was thinking i'll probably keep them by my bed so like in case i don't know i need to want to listen to music at night i can't sleep or whatever that's probably where i'm going to keep them but i'm not planning on using these anytime that i would want to use airpods now like i want to use the airpods pro instead yeah i don't know i i feel like i'm sure somebody can make a case for it but for me i will probably sell those or give those to a friend or something because I don't think I need two sets of AirPods. And the Pro ones are really nice, but I don't think I need two sets.

So I'm sure somebody out there can find a use case for this, but I don't think I can. Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to have them kind of like around the house. Sure, sure. I mean, I could see the argument of like just keep these in a bag or keep them at your desk or something like that so if you forget to bring your headphones in then you've got a set but you know that's kind of extravagant but you've already bought them and if you want the new ones too then you're going to be you're going to end up with two i'd say

find a friend who wants them but um who's comfortable in reusing somebody's airpods otherwise yeah something like that keeping it in your AirPods. Otherwise, yeah, something like that. Keeping it in your bag, putting it at your desk, something like that. Gary asks, when do you think iPhones will switch to USB-C? Next year. How about that? The 2020 iPhone?

Well, we'll maybe get a redesigned iPhone next year, maybe. And it will have been two years since the iPad got USB-C. Even the AirPods now have a USB-C to lightning charger in the box. I feel like the movement is happening there. And so, I mean, I don't know anything and I'm just guessing, but I feel like we're close enough now that it could actually just happen now. I think I could say that's true. I think it's definitely going to happen.

I mean, Lightning has been great and they've used it for a bunch of times, a bunch of time now, but I do expect them to move to USB-C at some point just because they have other products that i've got usbc it would be so much easier if apple just went all usbc now yeah right like it's still going to be a process of transition for everybody but i have so many things so many times i get a cable and i'm like wait which cable is this it's like oh this is the wrong one we just had this when we went to oregon a few weeks ago where i brought a cable thinking it was a usbc to lightning it turns out it was a usbc to usbc so we had to pass around like one cable to charge all the phones um it would be nice to be out of

that and it's going to take time but until apple changes we can't even start that transition point. Yeah. I would like it, though. I would like it very much. It feels like it would be an easier transition than some of the others because I think a lot of people probably have these cables now, right? Like USB-C cables because USB-C is kind of becoming pervasive across all the technology.

So you would expect it would be an easier transition than going from 30 pin to lightning. I would expect for a lot of people, because nobody had lightning connectors before the iPhone adopted lightning. But lots of people will have USB-C already in their homes. Scott asks, Is there a way to apply the same edits to multiple photos

in iOS 13's native photo app, Jason? Nope. That's a shame. You can do it on the Mac. You can actually take adjustments on the mac and then copy the adjustments and then go to the next picture and paste adjustments you can't do it on ios you may there may be a third-party image editor where you could edit all those images or export all those images or import all those images and then do a batch process and then try to put them back in but you may get duplicates at that point and i don't know that for sure but you can't do that in ios to my knowledge it is it is a mac feature but not an ios feature josh asked is it possible to use

family sharing with two adults without everything being billed to one person or one family organizer ideally would be able to share apple tv plus or music subscription but still buy apps separately i don't think this is the case i think that's like going against the point of family that exactly right the way apple is granting you with family sharing this this ability to share services and storage and all these you gain a benefit by being in a family because you can buy family membership to Apple TV or, uh, or Apple music, or, you know, there are, they offer these things that it covers all the family sharing and you can share apps across all of the, all of the members of a family. So how does Apple make it that five friends just don't pool their resources and share all their apps and only ever

have to buy an app once and only have to subscribe one time and the answer is apple makes it that somebody's got to have the credit card for everybody and take credit card responsibility for all of those people and that's the hedge against abusing the family system is there's you got to put your money down and vouch for the entire family group. I just signed up for family sharing a couple of days ago. Oh. Yeah, I heard you talking about that on Connected last week

and I thought, yeah, it couldn't be easier to do. You can take existing accounts and add them into the family and then they get those features, which is and the shared iCloud space is the best, right? Because everybody in my family, their devices back up because I have like two terabytes of iCloud space. And it used to be, I had that plus I had to buy my wife, like enough space to back up and my kids. And now it's just all, you process like you you opt in to just certain features that you don't have to do all of it and you send like a separate invitation for each part so it's a very strange but interesting process to sign up um but we're now using it and like so one of the reasons

i brought this up is because my advice to josh like is what me and adina are going to be doing if there's something that she is going to pay for like that she wants which is like you know more expensive like a subscription or sign up for a year or whatever we're just going to reconcile the transactions at the end of the month right because we mostly keep our own finances like separate um and but now it's going to a shared credit card that we have, and then we will reconcile that along with our other bills. At the end of the month.

Yeah, I was going to say, if that group of five friends is trustworthy enough to do something like come up with a sharing system where there's one credit card that is just for the shared stuff. And I'm sure people do this, right? And then at the end of the month, they reconcile and it's like, you gotta, you know, you gotta pay for this and that. And they, they put it all together and that's how they get around the family sharing i guess that there's still a degree of trust there right because somebody has to pay

but that would be the way to do it cory says we're listening to episode 200 that was our big podcasting extravaganza episode and i have a few ideas for podcasts on various subjects i'm trying to find interesting for interesting formats but every idea i come up with is already being done That's the world. That's the internet. There are a lot of people out there, billions of people. They've got ideas. Some of them are incredibly talented. I think in the end, I mean, there are people who are like canny about aha i found this thing i don't think it's being covered and i can do it but i think the truth is you got to find something you're really passionate about and you want to make great and then you make it and then you see what happens there's no guarantee but like i can guarantee you that if it's something that

you're not passionate about but you you work on it because you think nobody's ever had that idea before chances are i mean no i guarantee it will fail because you're not passionate about it. And I'll bet you that the reason that it doesn't exist is because nobody else is either. So you just got to take your chances and do something that you're going to, it's going to be worth doing because you love it and you're really into the concept, which we said in episode 200, right? I think it's that same thing. Stop looking for the big break

success that's going to earn you a ton of money and do something because you want to do it because you love the idea of it like yeah it doesn't matter if everybody else is already doing it do it for fun you love it you think it could be great and if it ends up being successful great but you know i don't think you can start there there and finally today uh capilla asks i think a great way for apple to gain traction for a new for their new video service would be for them to buy and revive old shows that have maybe been cut too soon by other services are there any shows that you'd really love apple to revive i've got a couple that um come ironically this question mentioned that amazon saved the expanse which is great

amazon also they had a change in management and they killed a couple of shows i don't know if this is going to help apple gain traction or not but i want apple to bring back patriot yeah sad spies and if they can't do that they should get steven conrad who created that as well as perpetual grace limited which is a show nobody has seen because it's on Epix, which is a thing that nobody knows about. Patriot, it's definitely on my list. They can bring that back or get Steve Conrad to do something else. Counterpart, which was on Starz and is maybe my favorite show of the last five years with jk simmons i love that show so much i would love for it to come back in some form um and if not that then give justin marks

who did that show uh you know he should get a deal and do another show but counterpart so smart um i wish i could point to a streaming service where it's freely available but it still hasn't cropped up on any streaming service. You have to buy the episodes on an all-cart plan, which is a lot harder sell, but I love that show so much. And The Tick, also killed by Amazon, actually. I love that, the third go-round of The Tick, a humorous, satirical superhero story that I loved a lot. So there's three, Patriot, Counterpart, and The Tick.

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to this week's episode of Upgrade. Say goodbye, Jason Snell. Stay tuned, everybody.