Upgrade - 288: Are We Being Punked?

Episode Date: March 9, 2020

The COVID-19 virus continues to upend tech industry conference plans, product roll-outs, and supply chains, but we've still got news about new displays on future Apple hardware and a series of major stories from 9to5 Mac about the future of iOS, iPadOS, and watchOS. Is the iPad finally getting full-on cursor support for external pointing devices? Myke and Jason are decidedly enthusiastic, while also wondering if this is just an elaborate practical joke.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 288 today's show is brought to you by doordash pingdom and previs pro my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snell hi jason snell hello mike hurley how are you fine and dandy friend. I have a hashtag snow talk question for you. This one comes from Doug, and Doug is alerting our audience that spring is coming. So thank you, Doug, for doing that. But that isn't Doug's question. Doug's question is, Jason, do you have any digital spring cleaning routines? My current plan is to go through my photo library and clean out nonsense photos. Well, the short version of it is no i i don't have a spring cleaning ritual for

digital things i do try sometimes to clean things like physically clean things in my house and pick things up and stuff but um but i do have a cleaning robot that does all my cleaning for me. Yep. Sort of all year round, which is, yep, exactly. So I, I am a late comer to Hazel by noodle soft, which is a great Mac utility. But I did get into it last year and I wrote a post about it on six colors

that we can link to. And I have started to use Hazel in a bunch of different places to do a bunch of different tasks so like my article on six colors is about how i use it on my server where my um because i have a mac mini with a giant you know rate array attached to it sure um and that's where all my podcast archives go and hazel is running on that mac mini and it's patrolling and it for certain podcasts that are timely that are are not archival in any way it waits a period of time a month or two and then it just deletes them it's like i don't need that anymore for the ones that i want to save it like the incomparable in case i need to pull it back out of the archive for an anniversary show or an end of year show

it waits um i think a month and then it it compresses it all so it takes up less disk space and then it's basically in an archive at that point i can get it if i need it but it it's doing that um on my mac i actually have it running i have a folder that all my current working writing documents are in called stories it's on dropbox yeah i thought so and then i've got a stories archive and hazel again looks at that folder and says if this file is older than whatever hasn't been modified in however many weeks kick it into the archive so the stories folder never gets too big. It's always basically just my most recent stuff. I'm interested by this stories folder thing. What if you started

something and then you just leave it for a while? Would it not just get automatically archived? Eventually, eventually after whatever, a month or something, it would move to the archive. And that happens occasionally where I start something and I want to retrieve it, but that's why the archive exists. Stories archive is literally just a different folder. So I don't, mostly because like if I'm on Dropbox, if I'm loading something from a cloud service, I don't want a folder with a thousand things in it, right? So it'll only have a dozen maybe or two dozen. Do you like the mental break of it as well?

So when you're looking at that folder of stuff, it doesn't seem like it's an overwhelming amount. Honestly, for me, it's mostly about navigation it's about it's about syncing and about the fact that sometimes especially on ios the sort is wrong and you end up sort it's sorted by the wrong thing yeah or it's sorted backward of the right thing so like the oldest is at the top and that's all when nonsense like that happens it's a lot easier if there's only 12 things in there than if there are 100. So it's mostly about that, about just like not having the list be too long rather than any kind of like mental overhead. But this is my long way of saying that my really my biggest bit of digital spring cleaning, so to speak, is that I decided to wire up a lot of my maintenance tasks to Hazel on my Mac so that I don't have to do them. I just have the robot basically do them for me. That's a really good, that's a really good, yeah, Hazel is a very interesting application. I have it do a couple of things for me, nothing too much. I just move some, it clears out like download folders, it clears out podcast scratch folders, stuff like

that. I've got that too where it takes stuff that's been... Also things in my trash. If I don't empty the trash after a certain point, if something's been sitting in the trash for a week or two weeks or whatever, it just deletes it and says, forget, it's gone. Yeah, which is nice. It's just a nice thing to have. It's especially useful if you have a connected machine.

Like a machine that's just like connected to a network it can do a bunch of interesting stuff they're like moving things from place to place yep you put something in a folder and it triggers an action to be occurred to it it's very powerful i've thought about building more of that stuff and i might someday but the idea here as with any and this is user automation even if you don't write any scripts it's user automation they've got a rule-based thing to do hazel but um the great thing about user automation is if there's a dumb repetitive task and you could pretty easily codify what the rules are it it's much better to have like an automated system do it for you so your brain never has to deal with it and hazel is actually a great way for mac users

to do that if you're acting especially on files. Sometimes you have to think of the logic of it. You'd be like, what is my reasoning here? But once you figure it out, it's really great because you figure out the rule. It takes you a couple of minutes and then you never, ever think about that thing again. It's pretty great. Until it breaks. Until it breaks.

That can happen. It's a computer. Computers ruin everything. I did just realize one of mine is broken, is it's it's not hazel's fault so i have had for years dropbox automatically look at my camera roll through the dropbox ios app whenever i open it and just upload photos to the camera uploads folder and then i have hazel scripts looking at that taking those photos and then just uh sorting them by date and putting them in their own folders in just a dropbox like i just have like a very large dropbox folder

with tons of photos in it organized by year and month i've had this going for years just as like a tertiary backup right i have my photos in backed up in multiple places this is just one of them but i have now just realized as we were talking about this that i never turned on camera uploads when i got my new iphone so since september none of these photos have backed up so i now need to turn that on manually make sure those photos are in there and turn all the scripts back on again i have a um a script that broke that is a uh dr drang the internet's favorite snowman snowman yes uh he wrote because so he flies a lot out of midway airport which is a in chicago which is a southwest airlines airport and i fly a lot of southwest out

of san francisco and oakland and he wrote a script that's great because southwest you have to check in 24 hours before to get your seat assignment. Well, not seat assignment, your line assignment. And so the faster you check in, if you check in right 24 hours before, you'll get to board the plane faster. Whereas if you don't pay attention and you check in 18 hours before or whatever, you will be at the end of the line and you might not get a place to put your bag. So you really have to do it 24 hours before. And I love Southwest airlines because i've just i mean i've internalized all of it dr drang points out that they're um the calendar scripts that you download from or calendar files you download from southwest are not as informative

as they should be and so he he wrote a a script that rewrites the S file to put the, like your, your registration code, your, your, you know, check-in code and, uh, in the title of the event and more detail. And it automatically sets two alarms, one for 24 hours in advance and one for 24 hours and 15 minutes in advance. Um, it's great. It actually, I mean, it's brilliant because he rewrote the ICS file that you download from Southwest.com to be way better formatted. And then it can, you know, you can add it to your calendar. script where um when i had it set to download when it downloads an ics file the way dr dring set it up is and the ics file contains the string southwest airlines which it does then um run this script and then add it to the calendar uh and that broke and it turns out i think it broke because fantastic al three has a quick look plugin for ics files and it seems to make the ability to look inside the file it makes the file opaque not quite not 100 on this but this is my guess so now now if you say it contains the the inside of the file contains this text it fails

because now for whatever reason it can't see inside that file. And so it stopped working. But for that, one of the nice things about the way Safari is set up in OS 10 is Apple's system is tracking what site you downloaded files from so that they can warn you. They can say, this is a file downloaded from southwestairlines.com or southwest.com. And Hazel will work with that so i actually just changed my thing to say if it's an ics file and the place it was downloaded from is southwest.com then run the script and it does it and it's like magic because you click the button and the file comes down it gets rewritten by dr drang's script and my calendar app pops up

and says what calendar would you like to add this to And then it's got there with all the alarms and everything. It's pretty awesome. So that's just an example. These things can be super complicated or super simple. And yes, the more complicated they are, the more likely they are to break, but I still recommend it. Great Snell Talk question. Yeah. Maybe part of people's spring cleaning routines is to make sure that their automations are still working. Yeah. And I was going to say, if you're a spring cleaning aficionado, maybe take a minute to think, are there repetitive tasks that I do that I hate that could easily be automated in some way on the iPad or on the iPhone or on the Mac with the tools that are available? I use shortcuts to do stuff. Yeah. I mean, you can use shortcuts. Hazel's a great example where it's not Automator, it's not AppleScript, it's not a PerlScript,

it's not, you know, it's none of those things. It's a nice Mac app that will help you. And Keyboard Maestro is a nice Mac app that will help you. And yes, shortcuts on iOS can help you too. So maybe that's part of your spring cleaning ritual is, can I this spring into automation that's the theme here great summer fun no no spring of automation that's spring of automation summer of fun was it fall of discontent like fall of no content or something like that i think that was what we were going for yeah uh thank you so much to doug for sending that question in you can always send in questions to help us start the show with the hashtag snell talk

jason we've mentioned on a previous episode that we would talk about if we found apple arcade games that we thought were particularly good now i have one here this doesn't mean that there hasn't been any good ones since the last time what it does mean is i have not been playing as many ios games as i would like over the last few months same but when crossy road castle appeared i immediately checked it out because i love the original crossy road yep and i was really keen to see what a follow-up game from these developers would be on apple arcade because the obvious continuation is like diving deeper into free to play mechanics right like in the iap stuff but it's an apple arcade they're not going to have that so i was really keen to see what this game

was and it is very very different to crossy road so it has a lot of visual things and some ideas in you know you can collect different characters and stuff but is effectively like a room slash dungeon running solving platform game so yeah it's it's it's got more in common with a mario a classic mario game than it does with frogger and i typically do not enjoy games where you have like fake buttons like left right and jump but the mechanics are so simple and it seems like the recognition of your movements is really refined very well so i like it and, it's lots of evolving mechanics. You're only ever doing one thing for a very short period of time.

You go through a room, you go to a new room, a new puzzle to solve, and they're using different ways of traversing the environment. It's a fun game. I really enjoy it. So you should try this one if you haven't. I have also played this game a lot, and it's great fun. So you should try this uh if you're an apple arcade person give it a shot and it's got a multiplayer mode and it's got a controller mode and i haven't tried any of those i think those would actually be a lot of fun but i've just been using touch controls on my ipad because that's primarily how i play games and uh it's it's a lot

of fun yeah i've been playing on my iphone because that's how if i'm going to play an ios game it tends to be there so yeah this is a great addition if you haven't checked it out already you should um i want to talk about the touch on the smart keyboard again from last week's episode uh we had a question from from mike that maybe we didn't completely talk about i know i didn't mention my feelings on it about whether we would run a function row on a smart keyboard yeah i i know that you i know that you mentioned it because you replied to mike on Twitter and said so, but we didn't really talk, we didn't really get into depth of it.

And what I kind of wanted to know is like, what functions would you actually want on a smart keyboard, like an iPad focused keyboard? The truth about the function row is that the way Apple, because the wrong thing to do is to say, well, the function row is

dumb because it's F1, F4, F8, whatever. People don't use that. But Apple already threw that out and redefined it. And the function row on Apple devices means something completely different. It's brightness adjustment and it's screen brightness adjustment and potentially back lighting adjustment, especially if there was a backlit keyboard um the media controls are there right there are some multitasking or or on mac it's like mission control stuff that's up there so for me i use on other keyboards on the ipad i use it to adjust screen brightness and do media control all the time. Now, we also

know that in the next version of iOS or iPadOS 13, among the new keyboard commands are these ability to bind keys to different functions. I cannot wait to bind the escape key on every keyboard that I connect to my iPad to home. So imagine being able to um potentially bind those function keys to other things too so you could you could fire off scripts or do other commands or things from there so i think that's where it's going and that's why i want the function keys but the primary reason is um is for brightness and media control because i do that all the time and reaching up and reaching up to the screen to the top right sliding down to get control center to make it a little bit brighter or a little bit darker is really annoying and on my Mac I can do that on the keyboard and I do all my media controls

on the keyboard and I can't it's frustrating that I can't do that on the smart keyboard so I feel like it's a real missing thing that that Apple could address they could get away with doing it via other keyboard shortcuts if they made it that you could assign. They could get away with doing it via other keyboard shortcuts if they made it that you could assign system-wide keyboard shortcuts of any kind. But I think it's a more likely scenario that they'd have a little tiny function row up there with controls, device controls on it.

I would, the types of controls I always want to see, like home to be able to access multitasking is good. I would like to be able to bring up the emoji keyboard. Stuff like that I would really like. So those are the types of things that I would love to see on an iPad-focused function row. Because I don't think all of the same really apply. And I like that on the bridge keyboard they have like a home button and stuff like that and then bring a lock lock button yeah

and a dictation button if that's something that you want like they're all useful things where you can add different functions um what about i mean okay so imagine a world where money and engineering was no object what about a touch bar on a product like this we had somebody write into us about that like i don't think that apple could or would do it right now but i can imagine they would probably like to i i don't know i mean i i feel like the touch bar is apple trying to bring ipad technology to the mac and so i'm not sure it really makes any sense on the iPad. Also, technically, right, like, I think the amount of power it draws is probably not something that could be done with the smart connector. And I think that the thickness and the weight of it, like, it's going to make it a super thick, heavy thing. One way I thought it could be done, I don't think I'm going to do this, but like e-ink could be way to to make it maybe a cheaper and lighter and easier

to use touch bar but at that point what why even bother but it could be a way yeah i do this remember back to the mac this would be like back to the ipad like we built this thing to make ipad things on uh on the mac and now we're bringing it back to the ipad where it's uh just a thing again i don't know um i don't know i. I just think technically it's not possible right now. It's an interesting question I had never considered, which is what about a touch bar? But it's like, I can't see it because I think it would require some massive re-engineering and I'm not quite sure it would make sense and it would make it a much heavier kind of product. And does Apple want to go down that route of making a bridge style keyboard that basically turns your

iPad into a full-on laptop, including the weight? My gut feeling is no, that they want to go down that route of making a bridge style keyboard that basically turns your iPad into a full on laptop, including the weight. My, my gut feeling is no, that they want to still keep it kind of light so that people will walk around with the iPad, with this keyboard. Um,

by the way, before we move on, I have to mention another amazing piece of feedback we got, which is I made a joke last week about how maybe the solution to backlighting on the smart keyboard pro on the new iPad Pro could be front lighting. Where there'd be like a spotlight on the iPad Pro that would shine down on the keyboard so you could see your fingers. This really happened. I think the ThinkPad, the old IBM ThinkPads at one point had this feature where they would put a little light down to shine on the keyboard so you could see it. So I was just kidding, but somebody actually thought that was a good idea once.

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Just search for that in the App Store, install, and start creating right now. Our thanks to Previz Pro for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. All right, Jason Snell. I wanted to tell you about the App Store review guidelines. I know that they're your favorite thing. I know you love poring over the App Store review guidelines, but there's a couple of changes that I wanted to mention. One of them, which is kind of follow-up,

is that you remember we were talking about sign-in with Apple and we hadn't seen it very much? Well, the deadline has been set. Sign-in with Apple must be featured and implemented by April 30th. That's the deadline. And I don't know about you, but I've been seeing it more and more recently. Like I noticed it on the Dropbox app. I've noticed it in Creative Cloud.

So developers are implementing sign-in with Apple now, which is fun. I mean, even setting up an Android phone, it's fun to see it there, right? So if you download Dropbox for Android, there is a sign in with Apple button because they have to offer that, right? Because if that's how you set up your account on iOS, that's where your account information is. So that was kind of a funny thing to see. But another thing is Apple have clarified, I think finally,

how advertising can be used in push notifications. So this is what the new guidelines say. Push notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app's UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages. Abuse of these services may result in revocation of your privileges. So previously, this wording kind of said that the practice was not allowed at all, that you could not use push notifications for marketing. And we've seen over time, this is kind of like a meme on Twitter

of not only companies breaking this rule, but Apple themselves, right? Just like, here's a push notification about Apple TV tv here's a push notification about the credit card stuff so you would expect now i think now that they have refined this that maybe they will be enforcing these rules so companies that are sending them without opt-in or without a way to opt out would be would be good so there you go that's that's just something I wanted to mention. I think it's important. And I hope to see Apple, as well as other companies, kind of paying attention to this.

I also had one piece of upstream follow-up for you, Jason. So on last episode, I said that the Simpsons were not confirmed to come to Disney+. But it turns out now they are. This is fascinating. So on March 3rd, so i think it was the day after our episode sky and disney announced a deal that would allow sky to sell and display disney plus on their sky cube box it's like their set top box which is a bit of an omni box right

you can get netflix on it and stuff like that like it has apps you still have to pay but you pay through sky and i think sky take a cut is my assumption. But Disney and Sky came to this arrangement. The deal also gave Sky the, quote, first pay window rights to a bunch of up-climbing 20th century films, so they would get it before any other service, right, before it would then go to Disney+, presumably. The very next day, Disney announced that Simpsons would be a part of Disney Plus. So obviously as part of this deal,

Disney were like, look, we're going to give you all of this, but we want to share the Simpsons rights now. And so I assume that's what's happened because now Disney Plus have confirmed that all of Simpsons will be on the service. So I think that's great because there's a lot of content.

That's a lot of content that's a lot of content for disney plus and i think if a territory doesn't have something as big as the like 300 episodes of the simpsons it makes it less of a good deal you know like to know that like oh this great content is available in other markets but we can't get it but we're still paying the same amount of money. Like that would have been frustrating. So I'm pleased to see that. So it was just a funny way that it all unfolded is one of those like things that seem to be on behind closed doors that get out.

And this is one of them. I just thought it was funny. Should we talk about coronavirus? I think we have to. Yeah. I think we can't escape it do i like talking about it no not really uh because it's you know this is one of those things where like world events bleed into technology but it is bleeding in in a big way and there's a lot of

interesting things coming out of it so let's talk about it so since our last episode jason google have officially canceled google io this was uh set for may right that google had already announced it people have already been in the lottery they bought their tickets uh google is refunding the tickets and anybody who won a ticket in the lottery automatically gets entered in for the next year yeah i think they can even choose i think they can choose like 21 22 or 23 like you can if you can't do next year you could defer it even further which is even better i didn't know that part but that's even better google haven't been completely clear yet what their plans are going to be for io um i think it's clear to assume what they're going to be probably exactly the same as what we expect apples will be that they will do a media well possibly media invited

event where they should do their keynote and they'll do that somewhere else probably at their headquarters and then they'll have video events and video content going out for uh their developers the same as they would have anyway but it will all be made without anybody in an audience. So that's that. Apple pulled out South by Southwest. Apple were going to be showing off trailers and stuff with new content coming to Apple TV+. Then South by Southwest was canceled. It wasn't because of that. You can't fire us.

We quit. Yeah, the whole thing got canceled. But yeah, apple had already along with a lot of people the way this generally works is that these events that have multiple participants the participants all start dropping out and then it gets canceled or postponed sometimes there's we're going to be asking the question a lot over the next few months about what is when is a cancellation when is a postponement what is the difference because some of these like the comic-con in uh seattle got postponed till summer um which is great except

you try to imagine like how are they going to find all the hotel rooms and uh and the conference center space in the summer if they can even have it then um and it's a question of is a is a postponement a soft cancellation i think a of the postponements are like wishful thinking on the part of the organizer. No, I think so, and the fact is we don't really know how this is going to go, but yeah, I think that some of it is softens the blow, we're just going to postpone,

gives them the option to fully cancel it later, but lets them keep their options open. Santa Clara County in California, which is a county that includes San Jose, to fully cancel it later but lets them keep their options open uh santa clara county in california which is a county that includes san jose which is particularly and also cupertino and cupertino yeah has urged technology companies to consider canceling any large-scale events they have not as some people are kind of claiming said you cannot do this they are saying we would prefer if you wouldn't yeah right they haven't made a rule but they are making guidance it's another little uh increment toward the cancellation of wwdc and

something that we have been talking about for a while and um you know i think i not not only do i have a hard time believing that they would have wDC now, but I assume they've already decided not to have it. And it's all about coming out with the strongest announcement of what the replacement for it, if there is one, is going to look like rather than it being. You know, I don't think that we haven't heard from Apple because they're debating it. I suspect Apple has decided not to do it and is trying to figure out how to go out with a message of what the new thing will be like. the world thousands of people and then have them in close quarters in santa clara and uh have our most important uh platform building employees also in that building and they'll all like bump into each other and stuff and then we'll all go back seems like a bad idea seems like a really bad idea at all doesn't it uh then Then, John Prosser of the YouTube channel FrontPageTech claims that they have an internal source at Apple

stating there will not be a media event for products in March. Prosser's kind of... I've been seeing him around recently with lots of sources and stuff that seems to be turning out true. I take this he also published a memo which was also obtained by

Bloomberg from Tim Cook to Apple employees urging them to work at home where possible this coming week. So the idea of a no media event for products in March doesn't mean no products in March, but we also don't know, right? So they could just release products, they could do briefings if they wanted to. release products they could do briefings if they wanted to but again it is not wild to assume that apple do not want to have lots of people come to their campus right now for practical reasons and for public relations reasons you don't just you don't want to be assembling you don't want to be seen assembling hundreds of people and as we discussed last week apple can do product rollouts without events they don't need the events we saw it with the 16-inch macbook pro they can do small scale briefings with people and you know with with journalists in controlled environments one-on-one one-on-two you know a

group of 10 group of five they can do those things where they can kind of have more control over it and not have the big public environment. Those groups are much smaller, right? It's not every single person from that giant theater met in a small group. It's a much smaller group of people who actually get those conversations to happen and roll out the products that way.

They absolutely can do that. And this is sort of what my gut feeling was a few weeks ago is that the solo events become briefings and the giant events become solo events maybe um and and you know everything gets taken back a notch in terms of human interaction because that's where we are right now which is the right way to go and in the same way like apple Apple is, along with many companies, tech companies telling their people to work at home where they can, they're guaranteeing people that work in situations that can't be work from home.

Like if you maybe work on site for some reason and you cannot do the work that you do from home, Apple is guaranteeing the hourly rates for those people people which i think is the right thing to do uh some apple retail stores are canceling events and removing a portion of their seats to discourage people hanging around yeah i heard from people uh who work in apple retail that this is you know their their approach is evolving even if they're not you know closing stores they're canceling high-profile events and field trips and all of this stuff. They're not doing that stuff. They're scaling everything back.

And it sounds like the retail stores, they have those seats, they have chairs, and they have those little cubes, those little wood cubes. Retail stores, you know, they have those seats, they have chairs, and they have those little cubes, those little wood cubes. It sounds like they've all been instructed to take about half of those out of the store. The idea there is reduce the density, discourage people from hanging around because they want to kind of reduce the load of concern of potential threat in the Apple store. This is not a time for big congregations, including at Apple retail. So I think we'll see more of this, even if they stay open, the idea that, you know, we're going to, we're going to phase out events for a while. We're going to, we're going to phase out seating areas so that we're not encouraging town hall, town squares or whatever. Like we don't really want you hanging about in a large groups. We want you to kind of

come in and then, and then head back out out again because that's where we are right now and look something we can't comprehend right now and we really can't is how this is going to impact technology and apple's products over the next year every day i'm seeing different reports from analysts about whether there is or isn't delays on products right now you know people are saying oh it's going to be delayed for months and other people are saying like apple got it all done so it is just not possible for us to see but we will as time goes on over the next few months we'll get we literally don't know if that march post march event postponement is because it's an event or because they can't get the products we don't or both right it's probably both the only one we don't know for sure is the iphone

when does the iphone come out then we'll know if apple was both the only one we don't know for sure is the iphone when does the iphone come out then we'll know if apple was here because everything else we don't know but you know there's an iphone in september but if the iphone comes out in october then we'll see ah okay that was the that was the effect that was had on them um this is uncharted territory room right now every day it's changing it's wild yeah talking about new products friend of the show ming chi kuo has reported that apple is working on six products that feature mini led screen technology that will debut sometime from now until the end of 2021 okay first off i don't think ming chi kuo knows who we are but we like him he's the show it's an unrequited friend like the

show likes him yeah okay all right yeah we consider i consider ming chi kuo a friend. An unrequited friend? Like the show likes him? Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. I consider Ming-Chi Kuo a friend. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Mini LED, by the way, this is not the micro LED that has been talked about that's almost

like OLED as a competitor for OLED. Mini LED, and we'll link, Sina did a nice explainer about it, but mini LED is smaller banks of LED backlighting. Any screen that does LED, you've got the screen and then you've got light behind it shining through it. And on TVs, you can have this sort of like active backlighting where these dimming zones, like if it's darker, they get darker.

And if it's brighter, they get brighter. And it's a way to, since you can't control every single pixel, like OLED or micro led to get more dynamic range so like i've got a active dimming tv and it's not it's hdr but it's not an oled and as a result it's you and sometimes you can see it it's dimming zones of the screen well many led those zones are a lot smaller the way way it's described by the CNET explainer is that if you took the screen off and just saw the mini LED display behind it, what you would see is like a super low resolution black and white version of the picture, if that makes sense.

So, you know, it's the pixels, you will these these these backlight areas are a lot smaller which means that the darker parts get darker and the lighter parts get lighter and you end up with a more refined backlighting scheme that gets you a better quality picture and the brighter stuff seems brighter and the darker stuff seems darker and you get better dynamic range so mini led just to be clear it is a more advanced and precise active backlighting system not an oled like thing where every pixel is controlling its own light that's micro led or oled so the products that will be getting this technology because clearly this is something that apple is looking to roll out to everything, it would appear. So over the next two years, 12.9-inch iPad Pro, 10.2-inch iPad, 16-inch MacBook Pro,

the 14.1-inch MacBook Pro, which is a product that doesn't currently exist, and 7.9-inch iPad Mini sometime in 2020, and 27-inch iMac Pro in Q4 2020. Is that a new iMac Pro I hear? Yes, believe it or not. The product is not dead. What is it like rumors of my death were greatly exaggerated? Greatly exaggerated. Quo did not give dates for any other of the products in this report,

but I guess there's some logic you can apply here. Like one, you would not expect the first iPad to get this technology to be the iPad Mini. That would seem peculiar, unless they radically redesigned the iPad Mini and made it like a new big thing. But the 12.9-inch iPad has been rumored to be getting a second update after the first update,

if that ever comes. So it could be then in September. And I guess you would also expect to see a 14-inch MacBook earlier than the end of the year? Yeah. What's unclear here is, are there other device generations before the mini-LED technology? Because obviously, Min-Chi chi quo's source here is an le mini led manufacturer or component manufacturer so he can say oh uh there's going to be a 14.1 inch macbook pro with mini led and we're like oh there isn't one of those now that's interesting there could still be a 14.1 inch macbook pro using the old technology

in between now and then or not not. We don't know. So there's a lot of interesting things here. I think really the thing that I like the most about this report is the iPad mini and the iMac Pro, because I like the idea of the iPad mini continuing. I like the idea of the iPad mini getting new technology because it means we could see a redesigned iPad mini, which could be a very interesting product, right? An iPad mini with Face ID and super thin bezels, that's like a little pocket computer. Like I like the thought of that product.

And also the fact that the iMac Pro is going to continue is interesting. It would be funny in a way for me because if that is... I mean, I don't think we'll see probably any change to the iMac Pro until then, maybe. That would be funny because of just how long it would have been around for. And it basically then reminds me of the Mac Pro. Q4 2020 is the end of this year. That's not surprising to me at all like if he had said 2021

i would have been like wow that's but you know q4 2020 so it's yeah it's a three-year cycle for it in the and in the meantime they built the mac pro i don't think that's unrealistic and i would hope that they would you know it would keep getting updates every couple of years uh from now on yeah if they're going to keep it around which i i think they should i mean i don't know if we've ever given our full case for the imac pro but like i think it's embedded in our discussion of the mac pro over the last few years which is the mac pro is an extreme product the imac pro is less extreme and has a lot going for it unless you need the expansion stuff but like for most users even the iMac is pretty powerful the iMac Pro is a great buy if you don't need that internal stuff if you don't need cards and internal storage and

all the other stuff that the Mac Pro gives you you just need processor power the iMac Pro is pretty great and I love mine yeah and and that's exactly it right like? Like we, I mean, I can't, I don't want to pay and I can't really afford the Mac Pro that I would want, honestly. But the iMac Pro gives me all of the power that I need in a form factor that I want because I also don't need to buy a monitor. It makes it a great machine.

It makes it the pro machine that we want. It makes it the pro machine that we would have bought right like a mac pro in this kind of price range is the product we would have had if the iMac pro didn't exist so it's kind of perfect for that so I am also very pleased to see that it is continuing to persist as a product in Apple's lineup yeah for sure no this is this is fascinating stuff. The 12.9-inch iPad Pro, there's a question like, does that mean that there are two iPad Pros, but only the big one gets the mini LED technology? That would make sense.

If they are going to do a second revision in one year, which is not out of the ordinary, like it's not unheard of, that they may just do it to one of them, right? Not overturn the entire uh ipad pro product line in in twice it could also be it could also be that what they're planning on rolling out is this right because it's it's between now and the end of 2021 maybe their first mini led product is the ipad pro 12.9 and it gets that now and the 11 doesn't and they say you know because i think i think it's not terrible for apple to say the bigger ipad pro has some things that the smaller ipad pro doesn't

right like some a little bit of differentiation right now they're identical a little bit of differentiation is not terrible this episode is also brought to you by door dash it's 2020 and delivery is way more than just pizza stuff. If you're busy, you don't always have time to cook. And with a selection of favorite flavors from across the globe, DoorDash lets you order world cuisine all from the comfort of your living room. Getting your meal delivered means you can take back time in your day to finish that project, get that workout in, or finish up some chores. Ordering is super easy. You can open the DoorDash app, choose what you want to eat

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your first order from DoorDash, U-P-G-R-A-D-E, UPGRADE. Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and RelayFM. Okay, so 9to5Mac, Zach Hall at 9to5Mac has been breaking stories left and right during our show as well, so we have a lot

of stuff to talk about here today. Breaking news. We have a few different stories, we're going to cover them all. First up is iOS 14 cursor support. Quote, a rich system-wide support for mouse cursors in iPadOS. Wow. Yeah.

So this is the big one. And this is something we theorized about when we were talking about the rumors of a trackpad on those keyboards that they might build in, you know, text cursor support or the assisted touch support or some combination thereof now. But then iOS 14 had better figure it out, right? Like put it together in one way. And this leaked code that they say is from iOS 14 suggests that Apple is going to, if you've got a connected pointing device it's going to give you a cursor not a big floating invisible finger thingy you know virtual cursor with the hand or the pointer like the real ones that that the cursor will actually change based on context like

it does on the mac and then it will it will submarine it will disappear when um when you're not driving it because obviously if you have no pointing device attached you won't ever see it but if you do have a pointing device attached you'll see it when you're moving it and then or if you've decided you want to change over to touch right so like you you your mouse is attached but you want to start using it well the cursor doesn't need to be there at that point. Exactly. So this is big. The report claims that there are two smart keyboards in development. Maybe one has the touch bar, Jason. The other one doesn't. Which, I'm kidding.

As a quote from the article, the presence of new smart keyboard models in these gestures heavily suggests that the keyboard accessory will feature a standard laptop-like trackpad yeah there's even tap to click apparently that's one of the options here although another quote although we could not find information of physical shape of the new accessories the code findings imply a standard laptop-like design of a keyboard above and large trackpad below now my question on this really, it kind of is basically what we were talking about last time. I would expect and hope that there is an iOS 13 stepping stone. Well, you can't release a trackpad that doesn't do anything, right? So there has to be something. And my guess is either it will be some quick refinements to assistive touch or it will be that text editing only thing i i'm i really think

the most likely scenario is that out of the box it'll do text editing and then you can turn on assisted touch assistive touch and that's how they'll sell it and then in a you know in a later os release ios 14 they will have more proper cursor support and it gives every developer the chance to think about that for next time do you think that there's any chance that when Apple released this product that they would say, and we are working on more? I think there is a chance. I think there is a chance that they will release this and say, here's how it works, text editing, you can turn on this other feature,

and then coyly saying something like, you can expect to see more of this in the future or we're working on other great innovations in terms of cursor support on ios stay tuned for that because wouldn't it seem that this is one of those situations where the hardware team got ahead of the software team exactly and so that's one of those things where you can't sync these things up and and everybody knows there's going to be a next version of ipad os so for them to say we got more in store so this is just the beginning and the that why not say that like that that doesn't they don't even need to disclose what it is right they can keep that secrecy but it lets apple say um we're just getting started right can't move a cursor my ass something like that they'll never regret that yeah exactly so

i'm excited i'm genuinely so excited this is exactly what i wanted right like yeah i know i kind of don't believe it is it is this a trick mike are they playing a trick on us is zach and and everybody at nine to five mac are they tricking us as benjamin mayo and the fix is in jason they're they're tricking us as Benjamin Mayo? The fix is in, Jason. They're tricking us. They're telling us everything we want to hear and then there'll be a yoink moment at some point when we realize that it's all a lie

and there is no trackpad and there is no cursor. It feels like that a little bit. This is almost too good to be true, but apparently it is true. So that's too good. We have a couple of stories about the Apple Watch. So first up, the Apple Watch health sensors. There seem to be true but apparently it is true so that's too good we have a couple of stories about the apple watch so first up that apple watch health sensors there seem to be some new ones on the way so zach is reporting that according to code of an unreleased version of ios 14 the same one which

we didn't mention but apparently was obtained in december this build comes from something in december who knows how it was attained but that's what is being reported. There are two new sensor capabilities for Apple Watch coming. One of them is blood oxygen levels. So this basically just monitors the amount of oxygen in your blood. Between 95% and 100% is considered healthy.

Blood oxygen levels below 80% could lead to risks. It's possible, I guess, that this sensor would require new hardware like it would need to be a different sensor i don't know but i assume so you would think it would although i've what i've heard is that the hardware on some apple watches has been able to do this for a long time but it hasn't been allowed it hasn't been regulated and they haven't built it in because but so it i i assume this would be on a new Apple watch,

but it's possible that it could not be. And if you've ever had the little thing like clip to your finger where they just, I mean, it doesn't, you can do this through skin like now, but it's these big plastic things that go on the tip of your finger. And then they look at your blood oxygen level because it's shining a really

bright light, basically looking at the, at the blood under your, under your skin. So it's a, it's a thing that it's shining a really bright light, basically, looking at the blood under your skin. So it's a thing, but it's another data point that could be added to health data and logged, and alerts could pop up and stuff like that, for sure. And there's also some improvements coming to the ECG function on the Apple Watch. So currently, Series 4 and 5 Apple Watches are not very good.

They have inconclusive readings when a heart rate is between 100 and 120 beats per minute. But this is going to be taken care of and fixed. I'm assuming this will just be like a software update and previous watches will benefit from this because it seems more like a missing feature or bug than anything else. Unless it's a hardware issue that it's just bad at that and the new ones will be better at that. Good point. I don't know.

It's one of the great mysteries. Yeah. Zach Hall reiterates that Apple is developing sleep tracking in one report and then doubles down on it in another report. So there will be links in the show notes for all of these reports, right? So you can go and read them because as is always more details in these things that we are getting to.

So sleep tracking is going to be coming to the Apple Watch. We've heard this for a long time, but sleep goals that you can set inside of the app, recommendations for getting better sleep, except the health app will say like, hey, why don't you think about this? And as is usual with this stuff, the more data you can give to it from different areas,

the better kind of information it can give back to you. But sleep tracking has seemed like an obvious feature for the Apple Watch for a long time. And it seems like it's going to be coming with, at least with WatchOS 7. Maybe it needs a new Apple Watch. I don't think so, but we'll see. Yeah, I don't think so.

This is one of those where I feel fairly confident that in the end, you can use this with new Apple Watch. I don't think so, but we'll see. Yeah, I don't think so. This is one of those where I feel fairly confident that, you know, in the end, you can use this with any Apple Watch, but you're going to need to make sure it's charged. And I had it where my Apple Watch was not on the charger overnight one time, and I got through like mid-afternoon the next day before it said, I'm at 10% battery and I'm going to die very soon. noon the next day before it said i'm a 10 battery and i'm going to die very soon so um you know a scenario where you wear it all night and then charge it in the morning you know i just think that we we are already there with a lot of these watches so it should work as long as you find some time to charge it and i would like to think that like if you were somebody using this feature that maybe the apple watch could pop up and be like, hey, you should charge me if you want to do sleep tracking tonight. You know, that kind of thing I think would be kind of nice.

You know, like maybe in the middle of the afternoon. So like, oh, I'm not going to last. It would be great if you could give me some juice. As you would expect, a new version of WatchOS will bring new watch faces. One of these is the Infograph Pro watch face. This is going to include a tachymeter. This is a very complex thing to explain, but you will have seen this on some watches

where you have that dial around the outside that sometimes can be moved. It makes that little clicking sound. It's a thing for measuring speed and distance. Yeah, I would say this is very much a skeuomorphism feature where this is a way to measure things that digital watches are great at showing you in lots of different ways data but analog watches watches you know old school watches with hands they had to come up with a way to do it and it sounds like the tachymeter is basically that way of doing it. And they're going to do a tachymeter on the Infograph

Pro watch face, which is, it's just funny, but I think it makes sense that this is a watch concept. So why would you not have it available? It's the same reason that there are hands and a sweeping second hand on the Apple watch is because it's a kind of classic thing that feels like a watch, and it's an analog way to display the data. And I would hope that they use this in some fun ways, right? Like it's a computer, like you could do cool stuff with it.

A photo album watch face, which I think is a good idea. You can currently set images as a watch face, but this would actually be a photo album. So it would scroll through. This includes shared albums, which is cute, right? So you could have like a little family

shared album on a watch face and you could all put your images into it and the watch face could change. We do this with our Echo Show and it's very nice. So I think that's a cool idea and this is an interesting one. The kid Apple Watch mode. So you'd be able to activate

a second Apple Watch without a phone. It kind of feels like an MDM type thing, like the mobile device management type stuff, because it would be a watch that's managed by another device, so managed by the phone. You can set what apps and services you want to be installed on it, including a school time mode, which would lock the watch to certain apps and functions

during a defined period. Now, let me ask you jason do you think that this would bring different hardware in any way no i think this is i think this is just being able to like i've got a kid honestly i think that the way that this works the best is i've got a kid and i don't want to give them a phone but i would get them an apple watch cellular even and that way they can call for help they can call me i can see where they are all of those things without having to have a paired apple watch and i expect apple know that people are doing this right yeah and i think people want this is a good example where there there's a lot of cases where you give a kid a phone because you need to keep them in touch and

you want to see where they are, but you really don't want them to have a phone. They're maybe too young to have a phone. You don't think that you want that, but you could get them an Apple Watch and then they're reachable in case of emergencies. You can send them texts, all of those things. And all they are is they just have to keep wearing their watch and you can see where they are and all of those things. So I think it's an interesting idea that you have to make happen. So it isn't like the premise of the Apple Watch was originally, which is that your watches are all attached to your iPhone and they're your watches. And you don't want that. If you want to give one of these to the kid, you want it to be a different number. You don't want them to see your texts, right? to be able to text them and that so it sounds like they're this is all part of this larger trend

toward making the watch be more standalone and not completely reliant on a specific iphone and this is a this is actually kind of an interesting first step that eventually this would be for anyone who wants to buy an apple watch but, but it's just another step along the way where there's this idea that you can kind of spin off an extra watch for things like for kids. And then, you know, school time, like FaceTime, having the ability to do parental controls on the watch and limit like what they can do when they're at school is a natural thing to fit into this too. is a natural thing to fit into this too. And then there's one last report from Zach.

I expect there will be more this week, by the way. We've had a lot in the last 24 hours. I reckon that this will be another one. Oh, Benjamin Mayo published the iPad article, by the way, the cursor article. We may have miscredited that. So I will now reflect. I will change my state on that in case but yeah i expect there's gonna be a lot more at nine to five mac over the next coming days because

they're good like that uh but this one is about over ear airpods which is something we've spoken about for a while on the show uh zach in the chat room says yes to that so head pods uh head pods so there's they've discovered icons in this leaked code, potentially two colors. So there is an icon which is white and an icon which is dark. I do wonder if that's colors or if it's night mode, like dark mode. So that's my question, right? Do they actually have a white one and a black one or do they have two colors of one icon we're not sure we'll see yeah but why would you show black headphones if they don't exist well what i mean is if you turned your ui from light to dark anyway right but yeah anyway but anyway okay um i would love it if we would see these

colors on other airpods not just on theear ones. Maybe that's something that Apple will do. 9to5 are saying definitively that these are not Beats headphones. They're classified in the code as AirPods. There isn't really any more information except for the fact that this is iconography, which would seem to indicate that they exist. I wonder about this charging. You reckon probably lightning would charge these products?

Not stuff that you'd put in a battery case, I can't no it could be usbc i could see that too yep um depending on what cables you think you've got at hand the sony over ear headphones that i bought last year are usbc charging and a lot of those are going that way and i don't know if if your apple i mean you could do lightning because that's what the airpods case is is lightning um but uh i could see it also being usbc what an afternoon already it's a lot of stuff a lot of stuff a lot going on a lot a lot going on in mysterious uh again i have to say what is going on at apple that there's code that is allegedly from iOS 14 that has been floating around since December.

Yeah. I love the information, but if I'm at Apple, I'm like, what is happening? Why is this happening? Well, we don't know. Something's leaking. Something's gotten somewhere it shouldn't be, right? Like that's kind of what's going on here is something has gotten out. Zach does confirm in the chat room that dark mode changes the widget panel color,

maintaining the glyph color. So black and white, it would seem to be. Thank you for that clarification. Very interesting stuff. Should we do some ask upgrade to finish out? I think we should. All right. Today's episode is brought to you by Pingdom from SolarWinds.

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right now for a 14 day free trial with no credit card required then when you sign up use the code upgrade at checkout to get an awesome 30% them.com slash relay FM right now for a 14 day free trial with no credit card required. Then when you sign up, use the code upgrade at checkout to get an awesome 30% of your first invoice. Our thanks to pinged up from SolarWinds for their support of this show and relay FM. Time for some hashtag ask upgrade questions. And Sean asks, would you be interested in a much larger iPad like 20 inches? What would you do with it? Why would you be interested in a much larger ipad like 20 inches what would you do with it

why would you want that um i keep thinking about how apple could at some point make a surface studio style product that's the big kind of it's like a surface imac and you can pivot it down it's on like an easel so you can kind of you can put it down or It's on like an easel. So you can kind of, you can put it down or it's easel style. It goes down, it goes back up. You can have it with a keyboard and mouse. You can take it down and use a stylus on it. So you could use the Apple Pencil on it

and touch it, but then lift it up and have it be more like a traditional computer thing. I keep thinking like a 4K iPad kind of concept could be pretty cool. Let me tell you, if iPadOS has the ability to do cursors and external devices,

like natively on the system at that point, there's no reason why you couldn't not only hook up an iPad to an external display, but build a device like this. That is both keyboard and, and track pad, let's say, or keyboard and mouse and touch with the pencil so that you've got

an even bigger surface for things like, especially for artists, but for anybody who has the ability to do both. But the ergonomics are super important if you have a big device like that, because it's probably too big to handle comfortably, but you could do something like what Microsoft has experimented with that Surface Studio, where it can be both a traditional computer and kind of come down and then be something that you work on. So yeah, I'm kind of intrigued by that. But they have to get all these other pieces in place first, and it sounds like maybe they're doing that.

I would love it. I mean, I'm using my iPad like it's just a monitor now more and more. All of the work I've done preparing today's episode was done with my ipad in a stand of a mouse and a keyboard that's how i'm using my ipad my top honestly over the last two weeks that is the vast majority of time with my 12.9 inch ipad pro that's how i'm using it so i would love to see a bigger screen like so then i could do that even more if i wanted to sure the operating system makes as much sense and works for me in just the ways that i want

whether i'm using my hands or other devices and i'm super pleased that apple is starting to agree with this right which is so i would love to see a bigger ipad to allow me even more flexibility in those modes whilst then also still being able to grab the thing and draw on it, right? Francois asks, I've heard that photos and iCloud can downgrade image resolution when shared via messages or via shared albums. Is this true?

What should I do about it? So I wrote a book that talks about some of this. So you could buy my book. It's called Take Control of Photos and you can get it at take control books.com. Indeed. Thank you. Thank you. Announcer.

Um, this, uh, is complicated because there are different scenarios where it gets down res and, uh, where it doesn't, I think shared. So shared albums have a maximum photo size.

So if you just do a shared album, you will not give, be giving people the full res images. I hate this. I think if you send individual images in iMessage, you know, in messages, that you will get the full size file, I think. But I'm not 100% on that one. on that one. The one I am 100% on is there's a feature, if you're on iOS, there's a feature called Share iCloud Link, I think is what it's called. And what it will do is it will, instead of sending photos, it sends a link to an iCloud repository of the photos that you sent. And depending on what device you're on, it does different things. Like on an iPhone or an iPad, it will offer to just automatically put those in your library. And if you say yes, it

gets them all in your library at full resolution. But you can also opt, and on some devices like on the web, you can see them and it gives you the option of just downloading the files in like a zip archive. And those are the full resolution resolution files so the iCloud link method of sharing things is the one where you're basically guaranteed to get full quality if you try to email in some places it'll give you options it's a it's kind of a mess but I think I'm positive about this because I think Apple is going in a direction where they really want to sort of use the iCloud link as the concept here because it means that if you're using another, if it's another photo person, photos person, who's got iCloud photo library, no data essentially transfers. It all happens up in the cloud. Like you send this link and they go, yes, I would like those photos. And they just pop into

your library and you didn't have to download 40 photos. They just happen on the server. And suddenly they appear in your library. That's pretty great. Because if you've ever sent a big photo in messages or a couple of photos and then watched as the progress bar very slowly went along as you're trying to get this giant set of photos on a cell signal or something like that, it's not great. But I think it's less clear than it should be. But I think that Apple is pushing in that direction where they realize. So I don't recommend anybody use a shared album, honestly,

because you're not getting the full quality. Eric says, do you think Apple will ever sell the new Mac Pro Silver and Black Magic Keyboard,, and trackpad separately. I'd love to get them to match my non-pro silver iMac. So they did the iMac Pro stuff, right? The black with space gray. So I would imagine at some point they will get the silver and black as well, just because if you're making them, why not sell more of them for people who want them? So, you know, it's got this initial cachet, but if the iMac Pro stuff is any indication,

they will eventually sell it to everyone. I would think they would. I don't really like the look of those myself, the two-tone, the silver and black. It doesn't work for me. I'm not a big fan of that. It's got a keypad on it, so I'm not interested. Yeah.

John says, with all your recent keyboard adventures mike i'm assuming you're mostly using us layouts how are you managing the switch from british so the keyboards that i have ordered all have british layouts that's typically what i do but i don't struggle with the us layout anyway like i do have and have had many keyboards or laptops that have the us layout my macbook pro right now has the US layout on it. It just takes me a minute to get used to the return key shape change, but that's it. Everything else is mostly fine.

But with iOS, it's actually really manageable anyway because you can specify what language your keyboard's in in the keyboard preferences. So even if I was switching from a British keyboard and an American keyboard, the system will recognize the key presses correctly. It's very clever like that. Yeah, so you can say I'm using British.

I'm writing in British. I'm writing in English or American English. Andrew says, it seems as if Apple Notes has been doing basic OCR and scan notes for a while. Is it possible to extract the OCR text? I don't think it is, right? Like it's doing recognition, but that's it. I've also found the recognition to not be that great, but there are shortcuts that can help you. And I'll include a link to the Mac story shortcuts archive because they have some OCR shortcuts in there if you want to grab them on

iOS. Yeah. When we talk about OCR, there are two different kinds of OCR. There's an OCR that gets you text that tries very hard to get you clear text of whatever it's reading off of an image. And then there's the one that is there to make it searchable. And they're different. Like that one, the goal is to do a text index that's searchable. And when you think about it, OCR is looking at each word and making guesses based on context about what the word is by looking at the image and it's got a percent likelihood score like this is 80% the word that but sometimes it has a harder time and it'll say oh this is know, 40% it's this word, 40% it's this word.

And in a OCR for reading, it has to pick one. And so it picks one. OCR for indexing, what it does is they're both in there, both the possibilities. So you have something that's not readable by a human. But if you've ever done this, if you have OCR text in your in Apple Notes, which does this, you do a search. If you search for a word, it'll show you that word. Sometimes if you search for another word, it could be it will come. It will it will pop up and you'll be like, well, that's not that word.

It's like, no, but it's a word it could have been. So like it's trying to be as broad as possible. Like this could be this or that or they and if you're building OCR for search, you put all of them in there and that way if you search for a phrase, it's more likely to find it because one of those is probably the

answer, but it doesn't lead for readability. So the Apple Notes stuff is not built for readability. Alright, if you would like to send in a question for a future episode, just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade. Thank you to everybody that does that.

We'd love to get some more. So you have any questions you want us to answer, just send out a tweet hashtag ask upgrade, and then be included in a future episode. If you want to find Jason online, he is at Jason O J S N E double L. And he writes at six colors.com. And as well as

podcasting here at RelayFM, also at The Incomparable as well. I am iMike, I-M-Y-K-E on social media. Thanks so much to our sponsors this week, the people at Pingdom, DoorDash and PrevizPro. You should go check them out. Help support the show. Thank you so much for listening.

Thank you so much to 9to5Mac for providing content for us today. Entire segment. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much to 9to5Mac for providing content for us today. An entire segment. Thank you to Benjamin Mayo and Zach Hall. Much appreciated. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.