Upgrade - 313: Story of the Summer

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

Jason and Myke try to piece together conflicting rumors about Macs with Apple silicon, Apple TV+ embraces the UK and Mariah Carey, and Apple and Epic take it to the courts, and #askupgrade reaches its final form as #keyboardtalk.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 313 today's show is brought to you by pingdom fully and things my name is mike hurley i am joined by jason snell hi jason snell hi mike hurley how are you fine and, my friend. Back to normal this time. And as is normal of every show, I have a hashtag Snell Talk question for you. And it comes from Ryan. And Ryan wants to know, Jason, how do you feel about the fake crowd noises in sports games?

Well, first, I want to back up for a second. You said, like, every show, there's a Snell Talk question. Does that mean, like, for Connected, there's a Snell Talk question, but it's never spoken because I'm not there? I mean, when I say show, I mean this one. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. I just, I like to imagine like, what would the Snell Talk question be for this episode of Cortex? Snell Talk questions have appeared in other shows.

We have one on the Pan Addict recently. Okay, see, that's good. So this question is referring to the fact that there are lots of sporting events going on now that have no fans in the stands. And so the TV broadcasters or sometimes the public address announcer, the sound system at a venue plays crowd noise to simulate what would be the noise if there was a crowd there. having listened to both so I was listening to the I think it was the Korean baseball organization games before Major League Baseball started and they were just playing those on ESPN with no sound effects and it's weird to have it be like silent just sort of the sound of the wind and then on NBC streaming platforms including Peacock, the Premier League games from England were done where you could listen to it. They were broadcast with a sound added of fans, but you could go onto their streaming channel and listen without, watch it without the sound added. And it's difficult because basically what I want to say is a silent stadium is no good

you need something i think uh i've seen it where they've added sort of a it's like a white noise in the background i think the white noise is a good thing i think they should play white noise of fan noise at the parks because it's good for all the players and everything to have it be that not every word that they say is clearly audible to everyone in attendance and everyone watching on tv like i don't think that's healthy there's some strategy loss in that i think too yeah and embarrassment there's a whole chain of uh baseball players striking out on pitches and then shouting a bad word that is very clearly audible and uh it's it's it's hilarious it makes me laugh but i guess i would say and there was a golf one too the u.s open that there was a a guy missed a putt and he just uh proclaimed something and everybody heard

it uh so i think i think some white noise just to uh give it some background is a good thing. That said, some of the stuff is aggressive. I actually don't mind it sounding like a real crowd because I like to pretend that things are normal, right? That's the whole point of airing these sports, I think, is to pretend that things are normal when they're not and to give you a little bit of comfort. Sometimes they make bad decisions and there are weird reactions.

It's like, ooh, you pushed the wrong button there. And that's not great. I don't know. It doesn't bother me. I think done well, like anything, right? Done well, I think it's good. Done badly, it's bad. But I think at the bare minimum, a little bit of white noise in that situation is not bad.

I watched the Community Shield over the weekend, which a Liverpool and Arsenal from Wembley stadium. And that was interesting. Cause they had to sort of simulate that there were two sets of home fans cause it's a neutral site, but they, they actually had like songs from the various teams. And when one team would score that it would play like the people singing the song for that club.

And I thought, I thought that's kind of good uh i i kind of like that so i i the short version is i think you need something and when it's well done i think it's good that's it yeah my feeling on it is that most of the time i don't notice it like it just sounds fine and i but there are times where like, oh, that sounded weird or like, oh, that sounds fake. But I feel like I noticed those moments way more than if there was no sound. Then I would constantly be thinking, this is weird. There's no sound.

Exactly. It's like there's something wrong. It's an empty void that there's occasional shouts of somebody in. The one sound that I kind of miss, although I'm sure there's some ballparks that do this, is one of my favorite sounds in all of baseball is when somebody hits a towering fly ball

that is very much not going to leave the park and be a home run. It's just going to be an out. But the fans who are not really paying attention and have no depth perception

all go, ah! And you get the swell of fan excitement that is immediately dashed when it's very clear that this ball is not going anywhere. And I haven't heard anybody emulate like dumb fans yet, but it may happen.

Thank you so much, Ryan, for that Snow Talk question. If you'd like to send in a question to help us open the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snow Talk or use question mark Snow Talk in the RelayFM Discord. We have some follow-up. I have a question from Adrian that was follow-up in relation to, I think it was on our last episode or in a recent episode, we were talking about the potential for Apple to create new peripherals with Apple Silicon Macs,

like new keyboard, new mice, and what would they have on them? And I think we both weren't really too sure of what we could add, but Adrian made a suggestion I thought was interesting to have some kind of functionality similar to what the H1 chip does with the airpods for seamless switching between

devices i would like that i hadn't really thought of this i was viewing it also as a uh follow-up to our uh our conversation about like what features they could add to the products and and they go together right the idea here that although apple is going to make some software updates to AirPods to make them switch between devices more easily this fall with the big OS updates, I do wonder if there's some hardware that they could put on Macs that would make this more reliable and that maybe exists or will exist on new iPhones and iPads. So it's something to keep in mind, because Apple definitely wants it to be the case that you can essentially sit down at an Apple device, pick up an Apple device with your AirPods in, and have it sort of seamlessly switch. And as somebody who runs with a pair of AirPods and an Apple Watch, it is not seamless.

Sometimes it's mostly seamless. Sometimes I will start playing a podcast and overcast on my watch and it will play in my AirPods. And then a lot of times you got to like pick the AirPods and see if it disconnects from the phone and oh no, it's still connected to the phone. I need to turn Bluetooth off on the phone and now will it play?

And so like every, this is one of those things that actually Apple has a great advantage at because they control the hardware and the software and this ecosystem in order to say our end goal is that these wireless headphones should just work with whatever device you're using at the moment and then back from that what hardware and software do they need to build to enable that so sure you know maybe that's a an apple silicon mac thing that can make that process

even more transparent that would be great um but like you know i would like to be able to use my trackpad on my ipad or my mac right like really easily yeah it's all it's all the same deal right like like can you build a system that allows any Bluetooth or, I mean, let's be serious here, probably any Apple branded peripheral to work and switch fairly seamlessly between devices. That would be great, right? I don't know exactly how you do that, but I agree. I have that now. Like right now, you can do that with the Magic Trackpad and the Magic Keyboard and the Magic

Mouse by plugging them in via a lightning cable which is nice i actually kind of like that that it's it's kind of instant but i do have that where i am trying to take a keyboard that was on this mac and use it with this uh ipad and you get into the bluetooth menu dance and all of that and it would it could be better right uh we spoke about the original Upgradian, Monica, for people who can prove to us that they've been around since the beginning of the show. And we found our first. Sunit sent us a tweet

that they had sent back in September of 2014 congratulating us on starting the show. So we have some proof from Sunit who is now going to... is crowned as the first original Upgradian. Okay. All right. I just want to point out for reasons that will become clear. I don't need to approve of you as an original Upgradian. Prove it in your own heart. Once you know in your own heart that you were an original Upgrad prove it in your own heart once you know in your own heart that you were an original upgradian you have my blessing i don't need to i don't want us to become like the corporate clerks of upgradianism mike interesting okay i'm happy to approve the original state okay send send your proof to mike but you gotta have the proof right like that that's

why i feel like i'm happy with this one because we've only had a couple of people in the last week that have attempted to prove themselves, right? Because you have to be able to show me the receipts. And Senate had the receipts, right? So I want to see the receipts if you're going to try and tell me you're an original Upgradian. And I just, if you know you were, then you have my approval in your heart. Yeah, if you know you've been around since my approval yeah yeah if you know if you know you've

been around since episode one but don't have it right like i bestow upon you the title of original gradient but if you want me to tell you personally that you are one you need to be able to prove it to me so that's that's what we said on that one all right ios 13.7 it just keeps going up just email mike keeps going up ios 13.7 i think we can call ios 13 the mac os 10 of ios releases because they just keep incrementing that number ios 13.7 is now available in beta featuring the second version of the exposure notification feature so exposure notification which we used to call contact tracing, it's still what it's called by most places, but Apple and Google changed it to exposure notification so they could try and steer away from some of the bad reputation that contact tracing was getting.

Contact tracing is a very particular thing, too, that is involved manual, like the phones don't do contact tracing. They just provide a log of notifications of people who were nearby. It's part of that, right? Like having a Google contact tracing they just very good point they just provide a log of of notifications of people who were nearby it's part of that right like having a google tracing it could potentially be a tool used in contact tracing um but what so we we'd spoken about this a long time ago and so for a quick refresher uh this is the system where your phones where iphones and android phones can communicate with each other to exchange codes and keys, basically to say that two devices have been in each other's presence for a long period of time.

And it creates these links, and there's lots of privacy measures built in. And then the idea that if you test positive for COVID, you can tell an application created by a local health authority that you have it, and then your phone will send out, well, your phone then goes up to a server, which then sends out notifications to everybody who you've had one of these link exchanges with within a certain period of time. Now, prior to

iOS 13.7, and currently, like as we speak of today, to be able to use the exposure notification feature built into iOS, you have to first download an app from your regional health provider. And so then it will turn on, you can then turn on exposure notification tracking. But from 13.7, and I expect iOS 14 will get this feature too, you'll no longer need to install the healthcare provider app first to opt into exposure notification tracking you'll you can turn it on in the system and then as long as it's been approved for your region you can only turn it on if it has been you'll be able to to use it

then if you've been exposed to somebody who has covid your device will alert you without you ever needing to have installed an app but if you as an individual test positive you install the app to tell the app so which then will trigger the notifications for others basically this is just taking away one extra step so more people may use it but i don't know how many people are realistically going to use these features i think it will be interesting to see if apple has a plan for onboarding people right like i don't think we've seen that i haven't seen that like as such as like apple saying to you hey you should turn this on here's why um right and i also think from this with this being in 13.7 i think we can assume that there's still a bit of time until 14 because i don't know maybe apple also wants to have this in in 13.7 um in case people don't upgrade to 14 uh so they have both cracks but

i would feel like the fact that they're putting this into ios 13.7 would indicate that that 14 is not imminent right which is what i mean logic would suggest anyway but it's such an unknown right now as to when i was 14 could could arrive it may also be that they want to make sure the people who are on the 13 track and maybe hesitate at upgrading to 14 for a while are still able to have this feature and i think it's a little bit promising but yes yeah yeah yeah so we'll we'll see but it's it's there now and i of a little column B. But yes. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. But it's there now. And I, of course, went to this feature.

And it is not enabled for me because the state of California is not using this feature. So there's no app. And therefore, it's not available to me. Because you have to be in the region that has the availability. Otherwise, there's kind of no point. I am very surprised that California is not doing this. I don't know. I don't know what they're doing. It would seem to me to be one of the places that would definitely do it.

Well, you know, we don't have that many tech companies here, so it's hard to find people. There's no lobbying. There's no way a tech company could lobby. There's nobody to make the tools. Who would even make them? Who would do it? It's happening in England soon.

They've started doing testing in certain regions of an app that has this functionality. I don't know why they can't just turn this... I mean, maybe we'll just... For myself, I'm happier about this because I prefer to just do everything through Apple's privacy than to give my information to the government first.

So for me personally, I'm happy about the fact that this will be implemented and I will turn this on. And then I can just be opted into this system, can be helpful for me, helpful for others, without having to give whatever information my government wants me to give in their application first. So that's cool. I'm pleased about that. I'm intrigued to see how it ends up taking control.

It's not taking over if it does or if it doesn't. I'm interested to see how many people actually sign up for it. It is about to be September. We can basically call it September now. Do you know what happens in September? In September, you can join in with supporters around the world during Childhood Cancer Awareness Month to raise money for the kids of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital,

where families never receive a bill for anything. Every single year, between 180,000 and 240,000 children are diagnosed with cancer worldwide. And St. Jude is not going to stop until no child dies from cancer. That is their mission. They have made incredible strides. And with your support, with our support, we can help make this a reality. Go today to stjude.org slash relay, and you can join the fight to end childhood cancer. That is stjude.org slash relay and you can join the fight to end childhood cancer.

That is stjude.org slash relay. Go and donate now. And when you're on our donation page, you're going to see that we've been adding in some milestones. So we've got some fun stuff that we've been doing, some fun Twitch streams

and we have more upcoming. We are currently, we've passed $35,000, which is absolutely unbelievable. We aren't even in September yet, and we've passed 10% of our goal. So I just want to thank everyone so much for the donations that they've made so far.

And if you still want to donate, please go ahead. We've got some fun stuff that we're cooking up at the moment. Me and Stephen are working on some challenges. donate please go ahead we've got some fun stuff that we're cooking up at the moment um me and steven are working on some challenges basically things that we can do that are bad for us that make you want to give money to make happen right people like that kind of stuff so we're working on that uh we've also got some milestones in on the campaign page so um i just did a uh on our twitch uh channel which you can go and you can go and find the video of this. I did like a Q&A and run through of my iPad setup, which was a fun thing to do last weekend.

Stephen's going to do a tour of his Mac when we hit $50,000. And then when we hit 70, he's going to do a live stream of installing Apple's wheels onto his Mac Pro. Yeah. Stephen bought the Mac Pro wheels and for your enjoyment, he will install them.

And we're going to be adding in more. I've got some ideas for some other streams that we're going to put in there. So basically, as we hit different milestones throughout the fundraising campaign, we're going to be doing more and more stuff as we lead up to the podcast-a-thon on September 18th, which Jason's cooking up something very fun for.

I am happy to announce that I will once again somehow be hosting a game show that will happen during the podcast. And it's a whole new game. Yes, we're not doing the Family Feud again, although that was good. But I didn't want to go back there again. We're going to do something different. We'll see how it goes. It hasn't been tried before on any of my podcasts anyway, so we're going to do something different. We'll see how it goes. It hasn't been tried before on any of my podcasts anyway. So we're going to give it a go.

So that's another reason to tune in for that. Yeah, we're really excited. We've got a lot of stuff in the works. Before we started our show today, I had a planning call with the wonderful people at St. Jude. And we're trying to get everything all nailed down. We've got a great event coming up. But go check out the donation page right now at stjude.org. Anything that you can give will be greatly appreciated.

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try Things today at thingsapp.com you won't regret it thanks to Things from Culture Code for their support of this show and RelayFM so let's do some upstream headlines, Jason. I have a few things for you that Apple are up to.

Keira Knightley has signed on to produce and star in a period drama called The Essex Serpent. It's based on a book of the same name. This was commissioned from the UK, so showing Apple's continued stretch outside of the US for content.

This is Keira Knightley doing what Keira Knightley does best, right? Period dramas. And this is a good example. And there have been some others where, as we talked about years ago, they hired somebody from the BBC to be the head of content for Europe. And they're trying to create shows in different countries. So not everything you see on Apple TV Plus is going to be an American, big budget American

drama. They're doing those, obviously, and those are what they launched with. But we're going to see more of this. There's already been a handful of little British sitcoms that just happen to be on Apple TV Plus instead of originating on the BBC or one of the other various associated BBCs like Channel 4. Again, because I am convinced as an American that all TV in the UK is just the BBC. Also, the Essex Serpent, that used to be your neighbor. I did used to live in Essex. You lived right by the Serpent, didn't you? Right by the

Serpent. That's me, yep. Take a left at the serpent and then there's Mike's house. You know, I think that this is like another example, though, of like just having a, you know, looking at the roster of talent that Apple TV Plus has is quite astounding. Like I'm going to list some more in a minute, but another one, right?

Keira Knightley. Keira Knightley kira knightley is a movie star right so for her to be in a television show on apple tv plus it's just another massive name well um it's like this looks a little like uh like chris evans uh with uh defending jacob right where it's an interesting mixture too where it's it's a long form project it's a mini series and i that sounds like this form project. It's a mini series and that sounds like this is maybe that. Is this a mini series or a movie? I believe this is as a

show, not a movie. It's a show. So, you know, whether it's extended or not, like it's a similar thing where it's somebody who's like headlining movies and now they're headlining this thing on Apple TV+. By the way, before we leave the UK production concept, I want to, once again, I'm going to say

what I've already said, which is I'm throwing a heavy endorsement toward Ted Lasso, which is a great example, actually, of a show that has an American star and an American writing staff, is my understanding, but was made in England because it's set in England and it has a lot of great English actors in it, along with Jason Sudeikis, who's the lead, the American lead. And if you got turned off by the concept of Ted Lasso,

because it was based on a commercial or because it's about sports, I just give it a try. It's so good. It's about halfway through the season. Now they're releasing them weekly. So you're going to watch those first five and then you It's about halfway through the season now. They're releasing them weekly. So you're going to watch those first five and then you're going to regret that you have to watch the rest of them weekly.

I have, this is on our list, but I'm kind of waiting until I can- Watch it all. Yeah. Either watch it all or get close to the end. I think is where we're going to go with it. Because I keep also hearing universally good things about it. It's really good.

Like, it is not... I think one of the things that works is that it's not what you expect. You expect a certain kind of thing when you hear the premise, and that's not what the show is. The show has heart and depth, and, like, it's remarkable. It is on one level, yes, it is a sort of... It's a sports movie in the... Or a sports show, but, like, it's like those It is on one level, yes. It is a sort of, it's a sports movie or a sports show, but it's like those sports movies that are heartwarming

and also very funny. So, yeah, people should check it out. There are three docu-series coming to Apple TV+. One is called Tiny World and is narrated by Paul Rudd, which was funny to me because Paul Rudd is Ant-Man. Because he's Ant-Man? Hello everybody. Welcome to my world, the world of the tiny.

Because, well, that's exactly what this show is about. So this series I'll give a quote here from Variety. This nature series aims to look at the world through the eyes of the tiniest creatures and witness the extraordinary things that they do to survive. You've think the producers are like wow who could we get to narrate this like ant-man no we can't we can't do okay he's available all right funnily enough

everyone's available right now to narrate things in their house sure october 2nd this one's coming uh then we have becoming you narrated by olivia coleman who's currently playing the queen in the crown as well obviously olivia coleman's been in a million things and she's fantastic this is coming in november winner oscar winner uh the series looks at how a child's first 2000 days shape the rest of their lives. And Earth at Night in Color, narrated by Tom Hiddleston, follows the moonlit dramas of animals at night revealing new insights and never-before-seen behaviors. I am into all of these

because the human interest one, right, Becoming You, just sounds like a really interesting premise. And then the other two are nature documentaries and Apple TV is in 4k so they're gonna look fantastic yeah so i will watch all of those they sound great and this is we've spoke about this a million times already but this is another example of you can't just do one type of programming if you want to be a not because i think apple at this point is i think kind of showing themselves

that they're not they don't want to be like h of old. They want to be a streaming service with a lot of content on it. Like that's what they want to do. They want to make you feel like you are coming to them and you can get a lot of stuff, which is why we can talk every single week about the new things they're ordering, right? They want lots of good content. And if you're going to go that route, you have to have a variety of content, and that includes documentaries. Here's a weird one. Apple is planning on using AR experiences to market TV Plus content.

This is a report from Mark Gurman at Bloomberg. I just need to read this quote from the article. Yeah, go ahead, do it. Elements of a TV show, like characters or objects, would be displayed on a viewer's phone or tablet. For example, someone watching a moonwalking scene

in For All Mankind might be able to see a virtual lunar rover on their device's display, seemingly perched atop their living room coffee table. The option would serve as a bonus content

akin to the director commentary or trailer that accompany a movie and would be accessed from apple's tv app on the iphone or ipad uh and then the article also references that this will be available next year ahead of any headset from apple set for 2022 who cares who cares no one wants this who cares like yeah this this feels like um they did a Super Bowl commercial where there was like a scratch and sniff card. It's a gimmick.

It seems like a really, like, this feels like something that John Maltz should have written for Crazy Apple Rumors. Like, it's literally putting pieces of Apple's product strategy together and then making a joke about how they're connected in a stupid way like well we ar is really big how does apple tv plus factor into ar it's like well what do we create

ar models that so while you're watching this show you can see what's happening or you can get a little thing that appears on your coffee table while you're who like as you said mike again who cares yeah it seems like a dumb idea to me not to poo-poo people trying different stuff but i've seen so many like extend beyond the show kind of gimmicks and this this feels like one of them that's just like if this is the way this article describes it like i don't think if it's necessarily like this like the idea that it's supposed to be synced up with the content like it because that would if that's the case like don't make people not watch the show right like yeah and if it's if it's a little like ar sticker kind of thing that you get for

watching the show or something like that i'm not sure that is any better like i don't think people want that what this feels like to me hey kids marketing materials i know like and it's like of characters you don't care about right like you know because you've got to imagine like when you see this stuff from other people like google have done this before and they kind of integrate things where young people might be interested in them, right? So you might get like Stranger Things or like Spider-Man or whatever, right? You can kind of see that a little bit more, but like who is watching For All Mankind

and being like, oh man, I really wished I could, I could put like the characters For All Mankind in my Instagram stories. Like it's not a thing that people want to do. This feels to me like there was a directive from up high that like every division in Apple needs to come up with some kind of AR VR strategy. And this is the one that the TV division came up with.

Right. And it'll end up being kind of nothing. And, you know, it's not to say that you couldn't use AR in an interesting way for a TV show or a movie, but it would have to be something that would almost emerge from the content and have to be baked in at that level. If there was an episode on the moon of For All Mankind where there was a strategy going on and they kept looking at the screen of where everybody is on the surface of the moon

and where they need to get to and all of that and you could turn your coffee table into that map like this literally the surface of the moon with little dots for where everybody is while you're watching the episode like i can pitch that as being like oh that might be interesting although even then you're taking your your focus away from the show but at least it would be kind of like an interesting thing but that's like not that interesting and the best example i can come up with and that's why this is the best i could come up with would require the headset uh which would be like show me what is effectively a director's commentary but visually like as i'm watching the show point out things to me right but this is all for re-watching i don't want this happening

while i'm watching it for the first time yep um in this report german says that apple are currently considering to keep a free trial offer available but for a shorter period of time for tv plus because we're about a month and a bit away before we all start paying for it yep and by the way i think we'll try and mention this as the time gets closer. If you're using it, you are opted in to pay unless you say otherwise.

Don't forget that. So if you don't want it, make sure you cancel it because the rules, if you looked in the terms and conditions, very clear that it was an opt out. So if you bought a new one, I think it launched in like

late October, early November was when people got into it so it's not that far it's not that far away from that the expirations begin in two months and Apple today announced Mariah Carey's magical Christmas special from the rare

Apple announced PR release for a TV Plus thing usually these things get out in the media first. But this is, quote, an exclusive holiday event from worldwide superstar, a multi-platinum, multi-Grammy award-winning artist, Mariah Carey, which will debut globally on Apple TV Plus this holiday season. This new special is set to premiere on the heels of the 25th anniversary of Carey's iconic number one holiday anthem all i want for christmas is you and will feature the legendary icon and a star-studded lineup of surprise guest

appearances in a magical holiday journey to enliven the christmas spirit around the world i i have to say i kind of love the idea that streaming services are experimenting with ways of doing the christmas special the tv christmas special yeah that's the thing like netflix did that movie or well it wasn't even a movie that special with bill murray yeah it's actually pretty good it was fun yeah yeah and it's got it's got like a lot of special guest stars and and uh yeah so i think it's fun that they're doing this this is of course it's mariah carey uh who is slowly transforming into the living embodiment of Christmas thanks to that one song. In like 200 years, people won't talk about Santa Claus anymore.

No. They will talk about Mariah Carey. Maybe they'll mix it all up and it'll be like Santa Care Carrie is coming to town and all she wants for Christmas is you. I said that a little too threateningly, but anyway, you get my point. They also have a Christmas movie which I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think it's starring Will Ferrell.

Do you remember that? This was commissioned last year around that time? The funny thing, I mean, we'll see if they made it, right? if they were able to make it but the idea i love the idea that um streaming services have to they're kind of combining the idea of the tv christmas special with the idea of the the holiday themed movie and like try try this stuff out it's great the beauty of it is that you commission the movie

and you premiere it and then you can have people watch it every year so that's why we have so many that's why there's so much christmas create a classic and then it becomes part of the canon if you hit it you can that that that will pay off for years to come if you hit it right and they don't all hit but when they do they uh they will really pay off and you can recycle them every year. And this is the plot of About a Boy, by the way. So anyway. It was a Christmas carol musical with Will Ferrell and Ryan Reynolds.

They commissioned that in October of last year. I reckon they'll probably have done what they needed, the principal photography on that one. We'll find out. I don't know. So that's Upstream. So we, of course, now move into the other regularly scheduled uh content of every episode we are really segmented this show is so segmented uh so much format for us to stick to every week let's talk about epic okay i don't know how much longer we're going to

keep doing this but there's still stuff happening that's worth talking about yeah it feels like maybe we're running out of things to talk about. I think so. That this is going into the courts and the wheels of justice. But let me tell you though, Jason, I thought that every week and then things keep happening.

So this is the story of the summer. Basically to bring you up to speed. Story of the summer! Summer of fun. Epic won a temporary restraining order which stopped Apple from terminating the developer account relating to the unreal engine so the concern of developers um not being able to access unreal is currently not a thing that people need to worry about um apple did do what

they promised they terminated epic games's developer account on august 28th so people can no longer download any of Epic's games. This includes obviously Fortnite, but some others, including like Infinity Blade, which Apple would feature every single year. It doesn't remove the game. So there were a lot of questions, right? We didn't know what would actually happen

when this happened, and we have the answers now. So it doesn't remove the game from anybody's devices but you can't re-download them so right which means when you upgrade your device unless there's a yeah i'm not sure if it'll even transfer over right because of app slicing i bet it won't buy a new device no more fortnite uh the new fortnite season is not playable on ios right we knew this what i didn't know is that the new season features marvel superheroes as a thing which is i reckon a pretty pretty opportune time to do it because it's probably content that people want to play right so like it's not just a new season of

fortnight it's a new season of fortnight including marvel characters um on the day that they removed it, Apple was promoting the PUBG Mobile upcoming update for iOS. In case you're not familiar, PUBG, which is PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, was the originator, basically, of the Battle Royale gameplay that Fortnite emulated. Because Fortnite was not a Battle Royale game when it started um so pub g was kind of the originator of that you could say that they were competitors but really there's no competition but it was still kind of funny that like there's this update coming for pub g it's not out yet it comes out in like a week and a bit but apple chose to promote it on the day that they got rid of fortnite that was not a coincidence um and of course now that they have no developer account, this is an

interesting wrinkle. Epic cannot process payments via in-app purchase. So all transactions in their iOS app currently go through Epic's system exclusively. So what I find in a funny roundabout way, Apple is now ensuring

by doing this that all Fortnite players use an alternate payment method for purchases in the application because Apple's method is no longer available to Epic. For those who are using this, you know, not current season version on iOS, right? Which is a small group, but still. It's going to be a decline in number.

And, you know, like I've seen people talking about this and I do find it as an interesting thing like are there going to be people are they going to be uh kids that want a different device now i don't know like but it could be a thing you know like yeah could be it's the biggest game uh one of the biggest games like it could i mean is it going to be noticeable probably not but is there a thing where this is the type of stuff that turns some people away from apple yeah possibly but we're not really going to know the answers to that but it is this whole thing this whole thing that apple's up to at the moment um not just in relation to Fortnite, but all of the stuff that we've been talking about over the last couple of months

about app review and stuff. I continue to think that Apple is playing a very peculiar game. But where are we going to go from here? So, more time in court. The restraining order about the Unreal

Engine-based developer account is just temporary they're gonna be back in september to create a final ruling on it and then of course there's the original lawsuit but that's going to take time yeah all these things take time i wrote a piece last week at macworld about this and i tried to take a different approach to it which is so much of this is sort of like i'm with with Epic, I'm with Apple, everybody wants to like pick their side and who they're rooting for. And so I just wanted to take a step back and sort of list all the things that we could get out of this from the user's perspective. And in doing that, you know, basically what I found is that both sides have arguments about ways that they

can improve things for users. And that's the challenge here is that I don't look at this and say, I want Epic to win everything because everything that will happen will be great. And I don't want Apple to win because everything will be great. Neither of those is true. So the ones I came up with, and we've talked about a lot of this stuff, is making it easier to buy stuff in apps is good for consumers. My examples are always Amazon, the Kindle app, and the Comixology app. Like if I can buy a movie in the Prime Video app, why can't I buy it in the Comixology app? Why can't I buy a comic?

And the answer is because Apple made a very specific rule that allowed Prime Video to do in-app purchase, uh, using Amazon's method, but only that category. Why? You know, because they wanted to make it as narrow as possible and they were making a deal with Amazon, but it's like Epic saying,

we want to be able to offer other payment methods in apps. Like I can see how that's good for consumers. Um, and if Apple has to compete, it means potentially that prices will go down and that Apple will be pushed to compete and make their experience even better in order to have people use Apple systems. So potentially, you could have lower prices and better experiences. At the same time, you open up the doors to let anybody do payment processing inside an app,

and you are risking fraud and scams in terms of apps and in terms do payment processing inside an app and you are risking uh fraud and scams in terms of apps and in terms of payment processing because when you spend money on the store now you know it's going through apple and so you have a level of confidence that maybe you don't have and we could argue like some of the they're shady apps in the app store already and they're using subscriptions and in-app purchases and you know but at least you're not worried about your credit card being stolen because who knows where it's going um so apple does provide some security there um then again i you know you can list all the apps that just don't exist on ios that exist on the mac yeah because apple's just decided we're not going to let those exist and the the video game streaming services is a good example,

but there are plenty of others. Emulators is one, but there are lots of them. They're a backup utility, right? You can use iCloud backup. There's no competing backup for iOS devices. And why? Because they're not allowed. They're not allowed.

That's it. They're just not allowed. And so there are lots of apps that never get created, not just the ones that Apple has outlawed, but the that apple has said you know the developers have this chilling effect right which is i don't know if apple will approve this and you can work with apple and you can talk to them about it but how many apps just never get developed because the developers are like it's not worth the risk yeah i had an interesting thought about this a couple of days ago. Workflow. That was an application that we thought would never get accepted into the app store.

And my understanding is barely did, right? Like they had to change a lot of it and constantly had issues with app review because they were trying to do too much. Apple bought that company because the app was so good, right? So on that line, think of how many great things could have existed. And this one only existed because the workflow team were a bunch of like very smart, very excitable young people. So they just went for it anyway, right? They're just like, oh, screw it.

We'll go for it. But there could be companies that have ideas that are larger companies that can't risk the company or risk a big part of the company on creating this idea because if they spend all this time and money and effort on it it might not get accepted and then they wasted their time right and so on that note right like some things are so good that they become part of the operating system, but they were always on the edge of what could be approved in the first place. So what are we missing out on?

What are we missing? And what is Apple missing out on? Because they're not truly turning over the whole idea of like, we can't wait to see what you'll do with it. They always say to developers, especially. Provided what it does is within the rules that we set well and and that's the challenge right is i do believe that if you have something that is an idea that is going

to push the limits you can talk to people in developer relations and you can get them to say yes this is okay and you can find a path although again that even then there have been stories of people who've been assured by Apple that this is okay, and then when they submit it, it gets rejected. Yeah, that path is always a temporary path. It is, and it is a risk you're taking, and that's a huge investment to make on something that you don't have another... If Apple says no to your iOS app, there's nowhere else to go, right? And so how many opportunities does apple miss by uh having these things that push the boundaries and they just they're never even discussed beyond internally somewhere because uh there's too much fear of apple and let me tell you what's been going on

this summer is not making that better it's making it worse even now and Much worse. And it's like that. I think that's a real crime. I was using Scriptable this weekend. Scriptable is an app that lets you write JavaScript scripts and they run in iOS. And that's one of those things that I believe they had a difficult time getting that approved. Pythonista with Python scripts, same kind of deal, right? That there was a period where Apple's like, no, there's no code or programming on the store. And then, you know, with all of these, it turned into kind of a, well, you can't have it preloaded. And like, it's, they've progressed over time. But those, all of these apps are kind of amazing, and they really extend what iOS can do. And yet, there are more, there are more out there below the waterline

that either can never be put in the store or will never even be developed because of this. And not only does Apple lose, but the users lose by not having that stuff available. So that's something that having Apple have a complete lock on the store, you got to say that is an is preventing bad stuff from getting on the platform or at least a lot of it um the the fact is that um there are alternatives like notarization which apple is doing on the mac although there was a report i saw today about how apple actually approved a a bit of malware it got the notarization system approved it and then when they were notified notarization is not a person then when they were notified notarization is not a person right it's a server it's looking for certain things but if you can get something

through that's malware it'll still run without any warning apple was able then to kill that when they were notified that it was malware because they can kill they can revoke certification of it and then it just won't launch but um you know the unexpected consequences of being told you have to allow side loading you know i i do think that apple's argument that the that the platform would have more threats is is accurate so and would and would apple even be allowed to do something like notarization if they're put under a court order or uh an order from a regulator, would something even like notarization, which they're doing on the Mac, be considered too much intervention on Apple's part? And if so, then you would even lose that as a possibility.

So the end of my little piece that I wrote and my little monologue here is I think the truth is that what frustrates me about this scenario is I think Epic's arguments are self-serving, but they have an aspect that absolutely would be better for users. Apple's arguments are self-serving, but there is an aspect to them that is accurate. And the truth is in the middle. And in my mind, the best way for the user is for Apple to make changes that the, that benefit the user without being forced. Because I think that if they're forced, you're going to,

like I mentioned with notarization, you're going to end up with a law or a ruling that doesn't entirely understand the ramifications of what it's doing. And we've seen this time and again with technology. You will end up in a place where people are like, why can't they do this? And I'm like, they can't. They were told not to by the courts and they can't go back on it. It's like, but this is a very fundamental thing.

Well, they're not allowed to do that anymore and we all have to pay the price for it. So will Apple do something like that? and we all have to pay the price for it. So will Apple do something like that? You know, if I'm rooting for anything in this battle, it is that Apple feels under so much pressure that it has to make a bunch of concessions that are more thought out and benefit users without having a bunch of downsides.

Whether they will actually do that or just fight to the bitter end, I still don't know because they're certainly behaving like a company that is going to just fight this till the end and they want to continue complete control and they don't really, aren't really concerned by how they're being viewed by a lot of people on the outside now. But anyway, my big point is, you know, Epic and Apple both are making statements that have truth in them, but also have ramifications that they don't want to talk about that are bad for users. And that's why when I look at this whole story, the story of the summer, I'm like, okay, like, I want Apple to change some of its policies

because I think they're bad for users, but I'm not sure that what Epic is doing is going to lead to what the most optimistic people think it's going to lead to. I am losing faith in the thought that Apple will make changes of their own accord. Yep. I mean, certainly their court statements are very...

They're making a lot of very bold statements. Even the things that they're making in the press, right? Yeah. They're making their case very clear, and their case is not what I want it to be. Right. Which is that they're going to overhaul this and think about it under the guise of where we are in 2020,

not where we were in 2007, 2008. Very different. And nothing changed. Yeah, they're not in that era anymore. The era of Apple in 2008 is not Apple of 2020. And I agree. I think their self-image doesn't match reality i think they are still using a playbook and still think of apple as something that is not what apple is now

either that we should say this either that or they're just greedy and evil they don't care i think that's part of the new image like it's great jason it's great like it is they are they there is an element of greed in this because they don't need the money. Like I said, Steve Jobs came back when Apple was in really dire shape and Steve Jobs always felt

this level of you can call it greed, but certainly what it is, is this feeling like Apple is owed for creating, yes for for creating yes for creating it's amazing everything yeah anyone who benefits from it financially owes apple like actually owes apple and steve jobs always felt that and that has continued the the challenge is at some point early in the process it's like well course, they put in all this work and they built this product that is groundbreaking and they built this app store that has changed how consumers interact with software purchases.

Of course, they should get paid for it. And that's 2008. And then you look at 2020 and they're like the most valuable company in the world with hundreds of billions of dollars of cash. And they look like a greedy bully. And so the challenge is, that's on a continuum, right? And yeah, we can portray it as, well, they're just greedy and evil. Or we could portray it as, well, culturally, their culture is from a time when they weren't, and they don't realize it. But the truth is probably some of them are greedy and evil, and some of them are just tied into the

culture. And we do live in a world where giant profits seeking publicly owned corporations, giving up some potential profit is not what they're supposed to do right they're supposed to be as greedy as possible on one level um and that's a problem but you know i keep coming back to the pragmatic aspect of this which is somebody at apple needs to read the room and they're not and they're not look at the end of the day they can be greedy and that is like perfectly fine i think the whole reason why there's so many of us are getting so caught up in this is like we have sided with apple for as long as we have because the beliefs of the company seem to match ours and this is one where

it's like they're starting to be a splinter amongst the community that we are and what Apple is wanting to do, which is to extract all the money. And that starts to feel like it doesn't make sense anymore. So like my feeling is, look, do it if you want to. That's perfectly fine. But my opinion of Apple as a company is changing. And I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But expect me to be more critical of you as an entity i will still use and love the product but i stop aligning my own personal values of

yours yeah there's only so much goodwill you can generate with your clean energy and environmental and all the other things that apple does is, we want to leave this world a better place than we found it. That looks great. Those are offsets. But if you are perceived in a way that Epic is certainly trying to get everybody to perceive Apple as, then those things get devalued. Those things become,

well, okay, I'll put it this way. Those things may always have been a smoke screen they're definitely pr but i do also think that there are some fundamental beliefs apple has yeah but they are seen as more as a cynical ploy even than they're intended the more stuff that's perceived as bad deeds that you do as a company right and and so apple has gotten away for a long time with being able to say well our heart's in the right place and look at these things we're doing and uh you don't get the benefit of the doubt when people think that you're uh a tech giant that is trying to destroy all competition and like they're just from a pr standpoint so it's it's uh

it's difficult again yes they are well within their rights to insist on every dollar that they uh that they feel they deserve um but they risk people thinking of them uh less charitably and they risk governments and regulators and judges yeah coming down hard on them and telling them what to do which i go back to that book settlement like that's not good like you don't as a company and this is where the the fiduciary responsibility changes a little bit if you're tim cook which is i know you want all the money, but what you really don't want, I've said this before, I'm going to say it again, maybe even every week, what you really don't want is an outside force telling you, here's a new set of rules, an outside force that doesn't

really understand your business and doesn't understand all the ramifications of what they're doing, but now they're in charge of big parts of your business and how you have to, you don't want that. That's an existential crisis for Apple. So at some point you got to get down off the horse and change your ways, not because you want to change them, but because the alternative is so much worse. And I think the scary thing about looking at Apple right now is there seems to be a streak within Apple, at least thus far of resistance to change even if it means that they're going to face an existential threat

and their products and the quality of their products and the safety of their customers could get kind of wrecked permanently because of of their sort of spiteful attempt to hang on to as much cash as possible and as much control as possible is that the cult the company culture that we talk about is informed by the fact that this company nearly went out of business right so why are you playing with things that could really affect you as a company right which would be a government coming in and stripping out a big part of your business yeah right because you don't know what they're going to tell you to do so like the idea of like playing with fire to this level

doesn't jive with this idea of trying to protect the company and again i should say this may be apple doing its its existing apple thing which is you never say anything. You never let anyone see you sweat. You never show a crack until the moment where you change, right? It's the famous, nobody wants an iPod with video. Here's an iPod with video. But this time we really mean it. So it's possible that Apple knows that they need to do this strategy, but they don't want it to be when the heat is on. They don't want Epic to be seen as a victor. They want to do it in a way where they could look like they invented it.

That may be, but things are on fire right now and it's not going well for them. And maybe it will settle down. Maybe it will. But I don't know. We'll find out. This episode is brought to you by Fully. Fully's workplace furniture is designed for health, flow, and balance.

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workflow. Our thanks to Fully for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. Lots of product rumors for you, Jason. I'm confused, but we have... Welcome to our new segment, Conflicting Product Rumors. All right, so according to a report from the China Times,

we have a few stories today. One is that Apple is said to be producing their own custom-designed graphics processors for an Apple Silicon iMac planned for the second half of 2021. Reports say this will be the first ARM iMac, but Ming-Chi Kuo has suggested that there will be one this year plus a MacBook Pro. This is quite confusing because what are in the other macs so other laptops what graphics processors they're using are they just the embedded ones like ios devices or are they going to use intel ones are there no dedicated graphics processors before the iMac if that's the case what happens to the macbook pro so there's very... So there's two choices, right?

Which is Apple could be using the... The way I'm choosing to read this rumor is that Apple is building their own external GPU in order to soup up certain Macs with much better graphics performance than their integrated graphics that they've been building for a while now that are on ios devices

when you say external you still mean inside of the case but yeah i mean a discrete gpu i guess is the phrase right discrete gpu um which leads to options for existing macs between now and then if this report is correct which is one they're using, they're using GPUs that are, uh, you know, that are from existing PC GPU companies, like the discrete GPU that's in the 16 inch MacBook pro for example, right. Or they're not. And they're just using the embedded GPUs, the embedded graphics, integrated graphics. that's on the existing chips that Apple designs. Those are the options here. And I think if it's a MacBook Pro that they're coming out with this fall, they must be using, well, I don't know, but like I keep thinking, well, maybe that

they've built that to integrate with an external GPU, a discrete GPU. You know what? Maybe I need to actually say the second one because it will help us have this whole conversation because- It gets weir this whole conversation. It gets weirder, folks. It gets weirder. So the China Times is also reporting that the first Apple Silicon Mac will be the return of the 12-inch MacBook, which makes some sense,

set to debut this year, but it will feature an A14X. So not its own chip, right? Like it is what will be, as is said in this report from the china times the chip that will be in the next ipad pro so they will share this chip yeah so when i read this i was like huh that isn't what i expected but i also thought well maybe not every mac needs its own like apple silicon chip like maybe a 12 inch macbook would do perfectly fine in fact

fantastically on an a14x so here here's the here's the thing ming chi quo's accuracy has made us sort of believe that what was going to happen is a 13 inch macbook pro and an imac were coming out this this fall or early next year And that may yet happen. But what's funny about this report is it's mostly confusing because it conflicts with Ming-Chi Kuo, and he's proven to be very reliable. But this report is sort of what we thought would have happened. Well, this also makes sense. Right? Before Ming-Chi Kuo's report, I think everybody was figuring, and honestly, everybody's been figuring for like five years now that the first ARM Mac would be a 12-inch MacBook. Yeah.

Right? Everybody's thought that. And you could use an iPad processor in it. And I did all that math with Apple Silicon. If you look at what the A14X is shaping up to be just based on trends that's a fast laptop all on its own with just the ipad processor in it it also makes sense because it gives apple a little more time to roll out because remember they're rolling out these new processors for the ipad and for the iphone this fall you know they would they roll having to roll

out a new mac processor that is different from them simultaneously? That's a lot, right? That's a lot. So could you get away with doing an initial release that's using the same chip as in the iPad Pro? And then next year, you do a A14-based processor that's got a little bit more for the Macs in 2021. Which is kind of what Mark Gurman said. That was Mark Gurman's report, right? processor that's got a little bit more for the max in 2021 it all actually makes more sense that was mark german's report right that like the first mac chips will be based on the work of the a14 right so right that logical that then makes sense that you can either use that as a starting

point to then build specific features or you can use that as a starting point to then build specific features, or you can use that as a starting point to just make this Mac. Now, look, this MacBook, it is rumored, would have 15 to 20 hour battery life. Now, that is unbelievable, right? And like, this is the thing we were talking about as we've been talking about this for ages, right? That like, when they do this, they have to be able to say,

and now look what it can do. And this is one of those things where it's like, here you go. Here's, as of before now, unprecedented laptop battery time for our products. What about double? Do you like that? Because it will do that. And look, an A14X will be more than enough.

And maybe what we end up with is this kind of dual approach where you have maybe consumer-grade laptops or consumer-grade products, even the entry-level iMac, they run on the most powerful versions of the iOS chips. Yes, and possibly with integrated graphics, right? And that makes sense, right?

Because if they run on metal and stuff like this, it's going to be more than enough for what most people need for their Macs. Just to be clear, the A14X multiprocessor, if it grows at the rate that the A series chips have been growing, the A14X in multiprocessor performance would probably be as fast or faster than the 8 core 16 inch macbook pro that's what we're talking about here so very serious

stuff right yes uh and then for the professional products you have distinctly tweaked and tuned processors for a Mac. More cores. And also to talk about what we were talking about last time, the idea of it's going to be plugged in, right? And then you can change the way that you build the chip and what you're optimizing for. So, you know, look, this is completely right. We had our own thinking of what this would, how this would go, and it was this product. But then there was some rumors from a credible source

that changed our thinking, plus coupled with the marketing messages that Apple have been saying. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with them taking, for them really to be like, the iPad Pro and the Mac, we're now going to make a chip that meets both of these. It's not that we're going to take the iPhone chip and tweak it to the iPad.

We're going to make a chip which is based on what we make for the iPhone, but we tweak it for the most power for these products. Because really, the iPad Pro and the entry-level laptop, they should be comparable in performance. Yeah, I mean, I could argue that the iPad Pro and the entry-level laptop, they should be comparable in performance. Yeah. I mean, I could argue that the iPad Pro should have more power than the entry-level Mac laptop, but certainly they should be in the ballpark.

And this is, I agree. I wonder if Ming-Chi Kuo's sources, because he hedged a little bit and also said 2021. I wonder if his sources are actually pointing to another wave of Apple Silicon that will probably actually be early next year and won't be the first one out the door and that this MacBook is the first one out the door. It'll be interesting to see who's right here because you're right. The China Times report feels very much like conventional wisdom almost about how Apple would lead into Apple Silicon. And that would be a great product for holiday quarter. and that would be a great product for holiday quarter having a super thin light fast long battery life a 12 inch laptop would be amazing and it logically makes sense to have the first

apple silicon mac be a mac that doesn't replace anything in the lineup like there is some logic to that that like the first one is its own thing because there isn't a macbook now there just isn't one right it's not a macbook air it's not a macbook pro it's not an imac this is the macbook because the macbook for a while actually pretty much for most of its life has always started as like this is the computer of the future right in its own way right like remember in things think back to the original macbook launch they literally described it as we learn we know how to design an ipad let's apply the ipad design language and understanding and make a mac like from the beginning,

the Mac book was considered from the people who brought you the iPad. Here's a laptop, right? Like that was always the premise to like the polycarbonate Mac book to the plastic Mac. Yeah, sure. You know,

but like, it's a thread. It's a thread that has run through this. So to have this, that's why we always expected that this would be the prototypical arm mac right so it's fascinating so i can't decide whether i hear this china times report and i'm like aha this makes more sense or if i hear this china times report and i think oh thank you china times for validating my uh my dream of how i thought this would go and not the cold reality of how ming chi kuo says this

is going to go i don't know which one is but it would make sense it all i mean it all does follow it all does follow there's also some somewhat sketchy rumors uh of what could be an update to the ipad air that i that even though they seem like kind of similarly like i'm not sure what i think about this stuff some from nine to five max i'm from mac rumors it's like this could be a potential pamphlet one of these is a schematic i don't know but there's enough in here where it's like i could see that as being the next ipad so it's not sure whether this is replacing the ipad air um or just the ipad but it's probably a mixture of both uh 10.8 inch screen with smaller bezels, flat sides,

USB-C, single camera on the back, smart connector on the back, maybe magic keyboard support, no face ID, but touch ID and the power button. That lines up to be pretty much what I would expect from the next generation of standard

iPad. Because it's modernizing it, it's giving it the features that it needs, but it's not going too far. And also, I want Touch ID in the power button of my iPhone. I would love that. Can you imagine if they somehow managed to pull that off for this next iPhone?

People would go wild for that, right? Yeah, that would be that would be a good one i i think this is a good rumor in showing us like it's a rumor i'm sure they have sources it also fits the extrapolation of what apple has done before which is apple is on this on this kick of pulling up the lower end ipads and giving them features that the higher end iPads have had for a little while. So creating an iPad Air that is cheaper

than the smaller iPad Pro, but still uses the accessories for the smaller iPad Pro, including with the smart connector rumor, right, including the keyboard. But doesn't have... I don't know. I mean mean you would think they would make it so that they all use the same the same accessories like they do that now right there are accessories that are shared so uh interesting rumor but the the bigger point is you know they

cut costs there's no there's no face id there's no you know lidar cut costs. There's no face ID. There's no, you know, LiDAR camera. There's none of that stuff. But maybe it's the A12X or the A12Z in it. And so it's going to have the speed of the current iPads. But keep in mind, those current iPads are going to get replaced probably next year with way more advanced iPads. And then this one will sit there for three or four years with this technology in it. That's very Apple. That's very Tim Cook's Apple to do that sort of thing. And I like it because it means that Apple is constantly making that mid-range iPad better for people who want to take advantage of a lot of the features of the Pro, but where the pro is just too expensive i want an ipad mini that's

this right all of this stuff in an ipad mini like not not the smart connector because i don't want to use a keyboard on there no but like get rid of the home button you know like make the device physically smaller make a modern ipad mini mini, essentially. I would like all of this on an iPad mini. Just for general content type stuff, I think that would be a really cool iPad. I hope that they make that. I hope that they make that.

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slash relayfm and upgrade at checkout. Our thanks to Pingdom from SolarWinds for their continued support of this show and RelayFM It's time for some hashtag ask upgrade questions there's the lasers I love the most this one comes from Ryan, Ryan wants to know

how do you prepare for your Parsley game sessions, both as a player and as the computer? If you don't know, I'm going to, but this is, this is legit question that I liked, but also a great way for me to remind our listeners that we have published our text adventure special for the year.

Every year for RelayFM members, we join up with CGgp gray of the cortex podcast and together we make a wonderful text adventure where me and gray are the players jason is the computer and we do an audio based text adventure with lots of wonderful editing that is now available for relay fm members yeah and all relay fm members so if you're not supporting upgrade or cortex directly but but some other show or no show in particular, you still get it. You still get it.

You don't have to be very particular. So if you are giving money to Relay anywhere, you can get that. And I'll put a link in the show notes to the, it's called the crossover feed. So if you are a RelayFM member and you don't know where the feed is, just click that link and it will open straight away.

You log in and you can get the feed immediately, is super awesome but if you do want to become a relay fm member you want to get the special and you want to get ad free longer versions of upgrade go to get upgrade plus.com and you can do that so jason how do you prepare for these specials um well i don't prepare as much as i used to because I've run the game enough that I understand generally how it works. I do try to read through the game. In this case, we were playing a game that we did on the game show podcast on The Incomparable. So I've actually heard this game being played. I've heard a playthrough and I've read the book because these are from Jared Sorensen is the guy's name.

Memento-Mori.com is his website. We'll put a link in the show notes. You can buy as PDFs or even as a printed book these little games and then run them for groups. I guess I was going to say friends, groups of friends. I don't know. Outside socially distanced, you could probably run them, but you could definitely do it with your family or do it on zoom or something like that and it's like the style of an old text adventure but um you know you're reading it so it's like something that's not as complex as something like dungeons and dragons it's just a straight up kind of like you you take turns ordering the computer to do something and then the computer tells you what

happens so i don't do a lot beyond that at this point um it really is just sort of like reading over the story and and seeing where the details are and then um and then making sure and then i always miss something like i always miss something like oh i should have not done that on this part and we take some of that stuff out in the editing but uh but yeah i try to read through it so i'm not surprised when somebody tries something i know if they can or can't do it so i can react in the moment instead of saying hold on guys while i look that up and come back a minute later so this year i did more preparation than i usually do and i listened back to one of the like our previous year's text adventure um before playing it didn't really help me in any way i hope that it would but it didn't uh the thing that that i the thing that we have learned the most in playing these games

is to have the ability to draw a map you really need to be able to map it out um i found that to be very helpful other than that the way that the way that i go into this like i go into anything is going with an open mind when you want to play any game and just know that you're just going to roll with the punches and have fun. Like that's how you should play games, especially while playing stuff. Cause even though these are text adventures,

me and Greg can't help, but play them like role playing games. Indeed. Stitch asks, given what's been learned from WWDC and other product launches in the age of COVID, what products do you think will be in the September event? And how do you think Apple will present it? I think WWDC is a model and everybody thought it was successful. And I think we're going to see that again.

I think we're going to see a produced Apple presentation. They're probably producing it right now that goes into the details of whatever products they choose to launch. Um, I think so they could, they could do a bunch of shorter things, but I think they want everybody's attention. So my gut feeling is that they'll do an event. I know this is boring, but I think that, that there's still going to be some, uh, reflections of past choices in what Apple does. So I think there's going to be a September event, presumably in September, but the iPhone event.

And they're going to have the new iPhones. Remember, the rumors are there's going to be four of them. You think September, but super late September? I don't know. I mean, when I say a September event, I mean what we've come to think of as a September event. It's an iPhone event. It'll happen when when I think what you want to do if your Apple is not have it be so much time between your announcement and either availability or certainly ability to order

for these products. Cause you want it, you want people to get swept up in iPhone excitement. And if they hold an event in a couple of weeks and then the stuff isn't available for two months i mean yeah like you could be if they did an event in september that if the rumors are to be believed the pro version might not be available until november yeah right and there's going to be there's going to be some lateness there but like i think i think if you're apple you want to follow your existing plan which is you're going to do an event and that fr if you're Apple, you want to follow your existing plan, which is you're going to do an event and that Friday you're going to open orders and the following Friday they're going to ship. Right. And if you're more than if you're more than something, if you're more than two weeks out from shipping, you probably shouldn't do your event.

Then the beauty of it is there. It's a prerecorded event. So until they announce that they're doing it and they don't need anybody to make travel plans. They can announce it the week of, the day before. They don't need to spend a lot of time pre-announcing it, which worries me about our draft, by the way. We're going to have to figure that out. If they don't give us a week's notice, we're going to have to do a bonus draft episode just to get them in. We'll do an emergency draft. But I think they'll still give a good notice.

I would think they would give a week's notice. If they know they're not going to have products to ship until October, then maybe they push it back to October. But I think what they want is that early event, that September event, and it's going to be iPhone and it's going to be anything else that they've got that's like a consumer announcement that they want to make that's sort of broad. They could do iPads and Macs in that event too, and just kind of combine everything into the big Apple fall product showcase spectacular. And, you know, I think there's an argument to be made that you want to roll, if you've

got a Apple Silicon MacBook, that maybe what you want to do is put that in the iPhone event, even though it's not an iPhone, just because there are more eyes on the iPhone event than any other event Apple does. You could also argue that they'd be better off saving that for an October event. Again, I'm using the term October event might not actually be in October. They've done it like at Halloween before. So sometimes it's the later event. It's the late October, early November maybe event because iPads and Macs in that event aren't overshadowed by the iPhones. So if I had to pick, that's what I'd say is they'll keep doing that method where, you know, they'll do the iPhone and then some other stuff they want to announce,

but they're going to hold the iPad and the Mac for later, because they want to make a bigger splash, even though they could make one big splash. I think the argument is I'd rather have an event that people pay attention to, but maybe not as much as the iPhone that features the Mac, rather than have the Mac be a footnote to the iPhone, even though a lot of people would see it. It would be a footnote. All the news stories, all the conversation is going to be about the iPhone. It's not going to be about the Mac. And honestly, if you think the Mac is really hot, do you want the Mac stealing away focus from a, maybe a little bit boring iPhone announcement?

Like, no, you don't want that either. So I think keeping them separate is probably the way to go, but they'll look like WWDC. You know, I think that that's the model. I think it will look like that for sure.

I think they nailed it. And so doing more of that where it's just around Apple Park and showing off their products, like they've shown they can do that. So do that again. Maybe we're pre-drafting here, but I would say they will have the first silicon Mac with the iPhone, similarly to what they've done with like the iPad Pro in the past. You want people to see it, put it in the iPhone event.

Well, like I said, I think that's a valid way to go. I think the challenge there is that it gets lost in the iPhone. Yeah, I can see that. And if you want to focus... And the other thing is, do you want to produce two of these? On one level, what does it matter if you produce two of these? You get more hype that way, and it's not like you're asking people to travel. Again, you're not.

If you produce two of these, you get more hype that way. And it's not like you're asking people to travel again. You're not, you can, you can, if, if you say we're going to do a Mac segment and an iPad segment and an iPhone segment and all that, like why not do two shorter events spaced apart by three weeks and let everybody kind of digest event one before you do an event, the second event, like why not spread it out a little bit? But I, again, the counter argument is everybody these events take longer to make i'm sure they do i'm sure they do but i guess what i'm saying is if you had all that content that you were going to need to make anyway for if the mac is in the

iphone event the counter argument would be take it out give yourself a little more time and do it a month later um but both both are valid if i had to pick i would say there'll be two events and if mike had to pick he'd say he's gonna they're gonna pile them all in the iphone so we'll see maybe that'll be a draft pick kate asks mike why didn't you tell jason that you're into keyboards now yeah uh this came up because i was talking about keyboards in the members discord and you said mike why didn't you tell me that you're into keyboards now and then kate said kate immediately followed that entire quote up with uh and i was gonna upgrade well so you do kind of know because we did an

episode of the show in january where i'd started to dip my toe into it do you remember that i was in yeah i remember it fondly because I was in LA then. That was our Mike Live from Hollywood episode. Right. So when I remember me sitting there and looking out at this beautiful view, oh, that trip.

I'm just slight aside, so happy that I took that trip. It was like in January. I think it was like late January. Yeah. Because it was the last trip that i got to take um it was a good one uh so you did kind of know but the thing you don't know is like i have i'm very into keyboards now like very very much into mechanical keyboards i know what that i know what

that lowering of the voice means because i've been there and i've spent that money it's like i i'm it's big time because it's so this goes back to there was a i've i'd already did this a couple of days ago because basically this came up because i did one of the streams that I did for the fundraising. We had a milestone goal. And I started talking about keyboard stuff. And I'm going to do, at some point in the next couple of weeks, I will do another milestone goal. If we hit it in the fundraising, I'm going to do a stream showing off the keyboard stuff that I've bought and gotten into recently. Because this all came up when somebody wrote in to an Ask Cortex question and said, why doesn't Mike like keyboards to this level?

Like he does pens, because there's a lot of crossovers with the pen and pen artisan communities there is with the keyboard community. And now I've started getting into that, and it's like a whole big thing. There's like, I'm watching Twitch streamers and YouTubers, and it's like i'm watching streamer like twitch streamers and youtubers and i guess like a whole thing um but yeah i'm very i'm very into keyboards now jason even to the point where like i've bought switches like just oh my god see i'm at a level you didn't even know like i am into the like i'm at a level beyond which i i don't want to go there where i have i don't want to go that far switches i've bought lubricant for the switches

and like cases and i'm gonna i'm going the whole hog my friend so are you are you doing you know is this all ergonomic keyboards too is that no no no interesting some like i do have a mechanical ergonomic keyboard that i love called the digma rays but they're not all uh because i've been using the keychron k6 very frequently okay and um i've been and i've had no ergonomic issues from that and i think that's because of the fact that like i i am not somebody who writes for long periods of time and i am still like using various input devices right so i use a trackpad and a wacom tablet and a mouse like i use and then also a keyboard so i think that mixture has still been very good for me i think what i've learned is typing wasn't the issue for my rsi um it's the

input devices yeah but at the same time as i'm changing things like this i'm still using on the cables that i'm using right now i'm still using cherry mx brown switches which have a low actuation force you need to press very hard to register but some of i've now like a switch i set switches that i've bought have a stronger actuation force. So I'm going to, like, cautiously try. Like, can I go up? If not, I'll just stick with Cherry Browns. I like them.

But, like, I want to try some different stuff. Those are my favorites. Yeah. Those are the ones I like the best. They have the, I mean, they have the right amount of, like, sound to me. I like the sound. I like the feel.

They don't take a lot of work. But I also want to try out some different stuff, right? Like, they're a tactile switch, and i want to try some linear switches so yeah i am this is a hobby that i can really get behind um but i am uh it's gotten to the point where it's like okay i'm but i've got a bunch of stuff it's going to be my base level, and now I need to set a budget on this hobby. Right. So for me, the keyboard thing is... So I had my initial exploration of the keyboard, right?

So that was, what kind of keyboards do I like? What kind of switches do I like? I bought a switch tester. I bought a keyboard with cherry blue switches. I didn't like them. I like the cherry brown better. i've stuck with the brown i discovered that i liked um that i wanted narrow keyboards because i didn't want and this is an ergonomic thing i didn't want to reach far from my trackpad i wanted it right next to the keyboard i don't i don't want to spread out my wingspan right and so

i discovered that i like 60 and 70 keyboards which don't have um the extra keys on the side 60 don't have a function row i kind of think as much as i like how tiny a 60 keyboard is i kind of like having the function row to do like media controls and things so 70 is probably well jason have you come across 65 i i have in fact i think my first keyboard might have been a 65 where it was but but the problem with some of those some of these keyboards is that they um the layouts are weird and this i'm getting to it because the thing that i really have discovered that i like is keycaps that what i really like is so i've gone through the what kind of switches do i like and what kind of of keyboard size do i like and and although i still have like i have these two keychron ones

that are not using cherry they're using gateron knockoff switches and they're not quite as good but they're good and those are bluetooth so they're pretty good um but i'm still using the vortex race um as my primary keyboard at my Mac, and it's USB, but it's plugged into my Mac. It doesn't matter. And also, I like it better. Jason, then you've got cables or a whole other thing, right? You can get custom cables.

I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can. So my point is keycaps are where I am forming my opinions of what kind of keycap printing I like, what kind of keycap material I like. But really, it's also about the color. And that's where they get you. That's where they get you. It's not just like, oh, there's a new keyboard I can buy. It's like, ooh, but how would you like blue keys?

And you're like, I would like blue keys. Can I have blue keys, please? And i would like blue keys can i have blue keys please and it goes from there on and on and then there are sites like wasd where you can do custom you can just literally design your own keys and keycaps there's yeah but there's a real beauty is in uh like the group by keycaps which is like yep they're beautiful sets but then you you pay for them and you wait like six to seven months it's true and yeah i'm in a couple of group buys and i i have a set which i should get by the end of the year which i'm excited about uh which is called gmk future funk this was something i ordered this

like months ago um and i'm gonna get it at some point so i am uh this is this is where i am uh in my life uh right now is is very keyboards and like i've made a goal that by the end of the year um i want to try and and get a kit and do like try and solder like you know like solder some switches like i i see this as a fun hobby that i can like a like a hand hands-on hobby that i can do like i feel like this is the kind of thing that i could do and would enjoy so and i i have a strict no soldering policy so it's not gonna happen for me but yeah i mean you don't have to right like there is a lot of a lot of options, even in like the, the, like the maker keyboards, like the small batch keyboards where they're called,

what's hot swappable. And that's what I have in mind where you can switch out the switches and you can just pop them out. Right. Right. So for people who have listened to all of this and are wondering, like, is there anything here that I would be interested in? What I would say is first off there,

you can buy on Amazon, you can buy it from from wasd you can buy what is called a key was it a key switch tester yeah and it's essentially like something like the world's smallest keyboard that a like a mouse would use it's it's like a little it's like five or six keys on a little rectangle and the idea is that it's got all the switches in there and you can sit there and touch all the switches and feel them and hear how they sound. And exactly. And make a guess as to what might please you. It may not, you may not be right. It's hard to tell, but that will give you some idea. And then you can choose because there are different kinds of key switches and they have different sounds and they have different feels. So that's something you could do in terms of recommendations. I would say, like I said before, the Vortex Race 3 is my favorite one currently.

It's a 70% keyboard. So it's got arrow keys because arrow keys are non-negotiable for me. And it's got a function row, but it's otherwise very compact. It's USB only. If you want a Bluetooth keyboard, Keychron makes a bunch. And like I said, I don't like them as much as the Vortex, but they make them in all the different sizes. And they're Bluetooth. And they are Mac-friendly. And they come with Mac-friendly keycaps. And there's a Mac-friendly setting. There are ones that have sparkly backlights.

And there are ones that just have regular white backlights. I use the K6, which has RGB and has the option to be plugged in and i have mine plugged in just yes so the bluetooth is good but i didn't want to have to charge it i have the k6 and the k2 the k6 is smaller because it doesn't have a function row and the k2 is larger because it has a function row but that's personal preference they also make them that have the big old number pad and stuff which i despise but they're there if you want them so those are those are mac friendly options um and as although i don't like them as much as i like the vortex they're also cheaper so and they've got if you like sparkly backlighting if you if you dream of having a keyboard where every time you touch a key it lights up and then slowly fades away so as you type you

create like a light show which i thought was a really fun feature until i tried it and then slowly fades away. So as you type, you create like a light show, which I thought was a really fun feature until I tried it. And then I thought, I never want that on. It's a fun thing to show people. Uh-huh. But I do like- And then turn it off. I like a lot of the effects that like slowly change colors. And, you know, like this is, you can really,

you can really get into customizing this thing. You can really get into customizing this thing. Like you can really, you can really get into it. Yep, yep, yep. If you'd like to send in a question for a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag askupgrade or use question mark askupgrade in the RelayFM members Discord,

which you can get access to. If you sign up for Upgrade Plus, go to getupgradeplus.com and you can support the show, get a bunch of wonderful extras. Thank you so much to our sponsors this week, Pingdom, Fully, and Things. If you want to find our work online, you go to

relay.fm slash shows. You can find this show and many more. If you want to find Jason's stuff, go to sixcolors.com, theincomparable.com. Jason is at jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L. I am at imyke, I-M i mike i m y k e thank you so much for listening for listening to this week's episode of upgrade and we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason snell goodbye mike hurley