Upgrade - 315: The 2020 September Event Draft

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

In the first of two episodes of Upgrade this week, Jason and Myke predict what will happen at September 15's Apple event in the traditional form of a draft! We'll be back on Tuesday for post-event reaction and the scoring of our picks.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 315 and it is the 2020 september event draft my name is mike hurley i say goodbye to you, Summer. Until next year, you'll be back, Summer. We love you. Goodbye, Summer. Hello, Jason Snell. I miss the marching bands, Mike. I miss the real marching bands.

I only have the virtual marching bands now. It's college football season. I would normally be at a football stadium with marching bands, and they'd be playing you know something that sounds a little bit like the upgrade uh draft music and it's just not there but we're here and the draft continues see because again 2020 can't stop us we continue to draft things people wonder when is the summer of fun going away with the summer of fun it's now gone away it's gone just did it right then that was it that. That's it. Summer's over.

Fun continues. Kind of unexpectedly, I think. Actually, I have a hashtag snow talk question for you, which is, were you expecting Apple to have their event this week? We said this last time. I thought it was more likely that they would have the event on the 22nd and not the 15th. A week's notice is a little awkward. It is awkward for us, especially, which is why we're doing something a little bit different this week,

which we'll get to in a minute. But I think what happened, and this was already kind of in the water when we talked last week, and then it got stronger and stronger, and then they made their announcement, is this idea that it's not an iPhone event and that the iPhone is coming later because of the delays that we did talk about months ago. They said it would be delayed by weeks. Luca Maestri, the CFO, said that in their conference call with analysts.

So on that level, not surprising. I think we expected it would be, you know, push the event back two or three weeks and do it then. be you know push the event back two or three weeks and uh do it then and apple seems to have decided that they're going to do another event for the iphone and we were kind of guessing about why this would be and i think the answer is probably that they want to get these other products out there and they want to ship uh ios 14 and ipad os 14 and and the new version of WatchOS as well and just get it out there. And then they will be able to continue and launch new phones later

because you have to have the new version of iOS before the phones ship, but you don't have to have the new version of iOS the moment the phones ship. You could have it earlier, which seems to be what they're probably going to do. So anyway, with iPhone out of the way, then it's sort of like, it could be anytime.

And the answer is, it is anytime. It's tomorrow as we record this. It's the 15th. So I thought it was possible. I was hoping we would be able to do upgrade and know that it was coming. But in this era of Apple virtual events, we're just going to have to adapt, Mike.

And if you are wondering why on earth are they recording today when the event is tomorrow as we record this, it's because we are going to be doing two episodes of Upgrade this week. Yeah. There was no way we were not going to have a draft. Neither Jason or myself could record over the weekend.

So we were like, you know what? Let's draft Monday. We'll do a shorter episode. And then Tuesday, we'll come back and do our usual post keynote episode and there's no way we won't draft in so it's going to be two episodes so i would expect most people will be listening to this maybe in the morning or in the afternoon depending on what time zone you're in uh before the event which i think is kind of fun if you've got that going that's right and if you're listening after the

event you get to chuckle at all the mistakes we made which is also fun and also if you do listen uh after the event more power to you and i love your support if like you will listen to a draft episode after you already know the results you are a very special upgrade you can you can get the scorecard out and score along uh with us since you know the future and we don't. In September, you can join supporters around the world during Childhood Cancer Awareness Month to raise money for the Kids of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital where families never receive a bill for anything and the families and the children that are involved,

the children that have been diagnosed with cancer get the very best care around. Every single year, between 180,000 and 240,000 children Thank you. That is stjude.org slash relay to donate now. I am so, so thrilled and honored and pleased to announce that we have now passed over $500,000 raised for St. Jude in the last two years. So we had a goal this year that once we passed, it was just under $185,000, which we have. We will have raised as a community over half a million dollars for the children of St. Jude. As I record today, this year's fundraiser is over $190,000 raised. That's right. I cannot thank you all enough for your generosity. We still have a ways to go and we still have a lot of stuff planned for you. So this Friday, don't forget, it's Friday the 18th from 2 to 7 p.m 2 to 8 p.m it starts at 2 p.m

eastern time basically is what you need to know 2 to 8 p.m thank you jason 2 to 8 p.m eastern time at twitch.tv slash relay fm is going to be the second annual relay fm podcastathon for saint jude we have a lot of wonderful stuff planned. Jason's been working very hard on a special game show. We may touch on this a little bit more tomorrow, but don't forget to tune in, and please go to stjude.org slash relay. So we kind of covered this a little bit,

but we only have this one week notice, which was kind of fun. And because of the fact that we've seen lots and lots of media reports for this event stating that there will be no iphones we have decided after some deliberation to exclude the requirement for iphone pics from this draft because we're doing something a little new this time uh we are actually going, because we believe there's going to be multiple drafts for this season, we're going to actually do the drafting categories of picks.

So we're going to have three Apple Watch picks, three iPad picks, and then four picks that are free. And then I think, you know, depending on what gets announced and what doesn't in the event, we will then, for the second draft, we will do a similar thing, I think, for this year and see how this works. But this is maybe something that we will continue because it might add something new to the draft. But just because things were so peculiar, we wanted to maybe lock this one up a bit tighter because otherwise I think it could have gotten a little bit out of hand in certain areas so we're doing three picks of apple watch three picks of ipad four picks that are free and those four picks that are free can include iphone picks

i guess at the pickers uh peril maybe yes that's right if you want to be bold and say no they will announce the iphone despite all reports to the contrary you can but we're not going to waste your time making iphone pics that we think are probably not going to happen yeah and so i'll go through the rules but one of the rules that we have is about obvious pics that pics can't be too obvious and one of the pics that has been removed for obvious is uh to say no iphones and that's that's but you know that i would say that was in our document and maybe four days ago when we started it i don't think it was obvious um but now there's been so many reports over the weekend and today about the fact that there won't be iphones at

this event um that it that it seems unlikely um we may touch on this during the the episode uh during the draft but i am a little bit perplexed as to why apple just haven't made it incredibly clear before the event that it won't be an iphone related event i think that they could have done that and it would have been fine um but we'll see how that comes back to bite them if at all because i could imagine you know a lot of the mainstream press being like, Apple announced no iPhones today. And that's kind of like the story, which I don't think is what they want to receive. So we'll see how it goes.

But that was an interesting thing for me. I mean, they very, very clearly could have just said, come and hear us talk about the Apple Watch and just left it at that. But we'll see. All right. So these are the draft rules for this here draft today. We're doing 10 rounds which is 20

overall picks. The winner of the previous draft gets to pick first and that is Jason. We've had one draft this year which Jason scored the win on which is the WWDC draft. For a night to count it must either be clearly announced on stage or on the video

in the video either by clearly announced on stage or on the video in the video in the video either by the person or shown or on a slide during the presentation so in those word clouds if they have them during this presentation that stuff will count too but post it on the website in some weird corner or said on a in a tweet or whatever like if it's not in the video stream as we watch it and yes that means like if you freeze frame it and there's a word on the screen that counts but like there's always that ancillary stuff that's on the associated web pages those don't count yep exactly um steven hackett will provide adjudication in the case of a scoring stalemate between jason and i but i actually don't

remember the last time we needed steven's help where we couldn't decide but uh it's good to have it there gentlemanly about it i would say very sportsmanlike no half points can be awarded four points only yes no points awarded for pre-announced or ridiculously obvious items. So if Apple announces an Apple Watch between now and tomorrow, doesn't matter. And in the case of a tie, we have a tiebreaker question. And as the loser, I get to pick the tiebreaker. My answer is the tiebreaker. Now, you may be saying to yourself, boy, that's a lot of rules. If you think that, I recommend you go listen to last week's episode of connected uh

in which uh you guys decided to pick up the excitement of having a pre apple event challenge from upgrade i think we inspired that and it has become more and more baroque over time it's mostly just rules now it's it's the show is largely rules and then the picks are sort of you guys arguing about the rules is the point and then the picks are are beside the point yeah anyway it's basically what i like about what we call the rickies which is the predictions for connected is they are pretty much the opposite of these ones which was i think by design from everybody involved right so it's mostly rules uh not very serious and it's full of conspiracies indeed not like us not like we know what we're doing here it's all above board serious stuff so i mentioned before

there's been one draft this year which was funny to me to go through the results was like oh wow only one draft this year which you picked up the win and going back for our history of drafts i have never won a september draft i've only ever won uh drafts ins, I have never won a September draft. I've only ever won drafts in June. I have never won a draft in September. Maybe the iPhone is the curse for me. And if there's no iPhone, it will be broken today. Who knows? 2020, everything is different.

Anything can change. Maybe I'll finally win. And you could come out on top. Not feeling particularly confident going into it, though, Jason. I'm not going to lie. Maybe that's like giving you blood in the water. But this one's so weird and so different i'm right there with you i don't feel particularly confident but we do have a tiebreaker as i mentioned so in the event of a tie we go to our tiebreaker question and we decided on this before the show so we're

doing an over under on the duration of the event so this high breaker is 90 minute duration is the baseline that we have picked will we say over or under in runtime and as the loser i am going to pick first and i am going to say that we will see over 90 minutes uh do i get the 90 if it's bang on 90 do i get that is it 90 you're picking me over so if it's if it's 90 minutes and zero seconds i win if it's 90 minutes and one second okay all right so i'm gonna get over 90 minutes jason will get under 90 minutes i had to really deliberate on this one jason but it seems like everywhere that it's listed apple has given themselves two hours for this yeah so that's that's kind of what's let me go for the 90 but

i will tell you if they are just doing what we think they're going to do i don't know how they can go for 90 minutes but we'll see as we go through this conversation as to whether we believe that this is why we said that at 90 because we we the idea of playing over under is you need to come to an agreement about a number that is you pause, that you're like, oh, that's really hard because I feel like that's a good break. And I thought 90 was actually a pretty good break because I think the real question here is, is Apple going to stuff this so full that they basically are going to fill their two hours that they always fill?

Or is this a different kind of event where there's a lot less stuff? And even though they've got a two-hour slot, they're not really going to fill two hours and it's an hour 15. where there's a lot less stuff. And even though they've got a two-hour slot, they're not really going to fill two hours and it's an hour 15. And I think those are both reasonable arguments. And that's essentially what we're saying by placing it at 90. So Mike's going for the, as a tie break,

again, it's only a tie break, for the stuffed, mega stuffed event. And that leaves me with the lighter, lightweight event. And we'll see. Don't forget, you'll be able to score along at home and we encourage scoring along at home and we will put a link in the show notes to an interactive scorecard that is created by a good friend of the show

zach knox that puts together these wonderful scorecards for us yes and we just stressed him again by creating sections of the he doesn't actually have to call out the sections if he doesn't want to but we are sectionizing the draft this time i have a pretty bad uh track record of informing zach in advance of any information you've seen you've seen it right here that was the informing in advance moments before we begin zach has been informed yeah sorry zach all right let's take a break and we'll get into our first round of picks. This episode is brought to you by TextExpander from our friends over at Smile. TextExpander removes repetition out of work,

so you're able to focus on what matters most, which is getting the stuff done that you want done. So you can say goodbye to repetitive text entry, spelling and message errors, or trying to remember that right thing to say at the right moment. Because when you use TextExpander, you can say the right thing in just a few keystrokes. It's better than copy and paste. It's better than scripts and templates. It's better than write and fresh every time. TextExpander snippets allow you to maximize your time by getting rid of repetitive things while still allowing you to customize and personalize your messages. still allowing you to customize and personalize your messages.

So, for example, if you have a habit like me of saying customizing, you could take that word and have it autocorrect to customizing with TextExpander. I actually use that for a bunch of stuff. I use looks like camel case type things. So I have some TextExpander snippets set up for Apple products, right? So if I just type iPad, it will correct the iPad, even if an application is trying to fight against me and like capitalize the I, you know, stuff like that, which I like. But also, my favorite thing about TextExpander is their team sharing features. So I have some shared snippets with my sales manager, Kerry. And between the two of us,

we're able to standardize the language that we use when talking to companies, because we pick something that works best for us and we share it with TextExpander. And then we're always on the same page. Our communication is in sync, which is fantastic. TextExpander can be used in any platform, any app, anywhere you type. Take your time back and increase your productivity. Upgrade listeners, get 20% off their first year by going to textexpander.com slash podcast. Go there right

now to learn more about TextExpander and sign up at textexpander.com slash podcast. Our thanks to TextExpander from Smile for their support of this show and RelayFM. Are you ready, Jason? Yeah. One, two, three.

Come on, we can do this. I feel trepidatious about this one too because i i don't feel like i was ready it happened before i was expecting and then everything i usually i'm prepared for of a september event i feel like i can't pull on any of that knowledge which i know it's very peculiar, but we are where we are. So let's go for, we're going to do the first three picks now, which are going to be Apple watch only picks.

Jason, what is your first? I like, uh, forcing us to pick Apple watch items, right? Like usually it's like, I'll throw in an Apple watch.

I was like, no, we must pick Apple watch items. We must predict things about the Apple Watch. It changes the strategy this does too. It does. Because I have things I'm more sure about that aren't Apple Watch picks, right?

So my first pick would have not even been an Apple Watch pick. So it changes the strategy of approaching the draft. Indeed. It's like a bunch of little mini drafts. Indeed. Which is so we may keep it, we may not, but like, this is something fun to try. All right. So I'm going to predict the low priced Apple Watch model that replaces the Series 3.

This was my first pick. I think it's a good one. I think it is one of the most likely ones because we know Tim Cook likes taking old models and discounting them. And by all accounts, including like Apple's own disclosures, the Series 3 has sold really well. And it's a good deal. Like it's a good deal. It's not the best, but it's a good deal.

However, a little long in the tooth, they probably want to upgrade it. And the Series 4 is already discontinued, right? They didn't keep it around. So you've got the Series 5 and the Series 3. What do you do? The rumor is that they're not going to bring back the Series 4, although they could do that.

But what I'm predicting here is it's going to not be called the Series 4, and it's probably going to have some tech that's different from the Series 4 and the Series 3. So a new model, an Apple Watch SE watch se if you will that might not be the name but that idea of keeping a low price apple watch in the uh in the price list in addition to whatever they introduce that's sort of the cutting edge apple watch this this um this thought this rumor is intriguing to me but i can't really put my finger on what I think this product is actually going to look like. Will it look like the Series 4 Apple Watch? Will it look like an Apple Watch we've never seen before?

Will it have a different form factor? Is it just a cheap Apple Watch, or is it a different product? apple watch or is it a different product like i i at the moment i am not a hundred percent sure what i think about this but i do i do go along with the thinking that there will be a new product yeah so my my guess if i had to guess specs which is not part of the draft but if I had to guess specs, which is not part of the draft, but if I had to guess specs, it would be that it will be the processor that's in the new Apple Watch. That same processor. Remove 3D Touch, right? Because we assume 3D Touch is going to get removed from the Apple Watch anyway. They've already removed it from the operating system.

And not always on display um and then maybe or maybe not the the kind of edge to edge display that's in the modern models but my guess it's going to be a combination of specs from the three four and five and maybe six right but something that they can make cheaply for them keep their margins up and then let it sit there for another two years. Because that's what they do, right? That's what the SE model is. The SE doesn't get the old chip. It actually gets the current chip,

but then it sits there for three, four years. So I think that's what they're going to do with the Apple Watches. They're going to build a new, kind of like a new old watch. And it'll have a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B. Maybe I'm showing my hand a little bit here,

but we have this as a potential pick in the draft. And I'm seeing a lot of people talk about this kind of thing of Apple trying to create like a different form factor product. Yeah. And I don't think they're going to do that. I think the Apple Watch is the Apple Watch. I don't imagine them putting in the effort to create what would essentially be a different product. Right.

That seems like maybe for the future, but I don't even think that that would be called an Apple Watch myself. I think that would be a separate fitness product from Apple. And yeah, it's not to say that Apple might not do a fitness band at some point. If you imagine something with little or no display, that really is just a low, sort of simple looking band that people won't feel like they're wearing a watch. They're just wearing a fitness band, but it does all of the data syncing and stuff to your iPhone and you have to bring your iPhone with you or start things off on your iPhone. I could see them maybe making that product. The problem is the Apple Watch exists and Apple has put all this effort into the Apple Watch and they can make a relatively cheap Apple Watch.

And I think like, why create a product that makes it less likely that you'll buy an Apple Watch when you can make a cheaper Apple Watch and sell that to people. And I know that there's probably a market for a $99 or whatever fitness band and people who don't want to wear a watch, but do want a fitness tracker. I know, but Apple's put so much investment into what the Apple Watch is and what it represents that I think even though they could make that product, I'm not sure it makes sense for them to make that product instead of just making a more affordable Apple Watch and letting it ride because that's where they're that's their greatest asset all right i'm gonna make my first pick of this draft and say that the apple watch will

receive a new health focused sensor yep that was going to be my pick if i didn't pick the other one yeah so you know i think i always think back to last year with the Apple Watch and they really surprised us. Right. I remember kind of around this time last year, we were talking about the September event. Right. For the iPhones and the Apple Watch, everything that came out. And I remember saying that the biggest surprise for the both of us was the always-on display in the Apple Watch Series 5. Because Apple absolutely surprised us with that one. It wasn't rumored. Nobody thought it was coming.

I think even before that episode, we'd spoken about the fact that we thought it was never going to happen. Like, if it hasn't happened by now and there's no rumors, it kind of seems like it's maybe not going to happen. And, you know, I was blown away by because it it made the product more useful for me and i think was an important thing i i don't necessarily think we're going to see something that's going to do that again this year because really that was the first time that the apple watch product hardware had ever done that to me right like? Like really surprised me like that. And, you know, it may have been because like from a supply chain perspective, you can't see that, right? Like, you know, if you're putting them together, you've got case sizes and molds and stuff. You can't see this feature. And that may have been one of the

reasons it didn't get out or there just isn't such a market for Apple Watch leaks as there are iPhone leaks. But all of this to say is I don't believe we're going to see the Series 6 doing something so out of the box, depending on what we're expecting. But what I do always expect Apple to do is wherever they can,

push the hardware forward for other health features, and that the Apple Watch Series 6 will get something, some new sensor that will be used for a new health application, not necessarily an app, but like an application of a health feature. And this is something I would, this isn't in my pick but i would expect that the whatever the new watches are will all get this right i think that they will do an almost like iphone 11 kind of idea of like these two watches are effectively the same we've put the same chips in them we've put the same sensors in them. The differences are the design and the screen, right? And maybe the overall shape of the device.

But they will want to start off this new, say, the Apple Watch SE. We'll call it for the sake of conversation. They want to start off the Series 6 and the SE at the same baseline. And then the SE will maybe go for two generations, right? But they start it off saying, here here we go and move on from there. And that's just my belief. But my pick is that there will be some new health-focused sensor

that finds its way into the Apple Watch models this year. Yeah, the most likely scenario is oxygen, which Apple's already been experimenting with doing some measurements of. But I think what the dream is and whether they'll be able to get an authorization for this because it gets into medical device territory. But the dream is that instead of having the little thing that you have to put on your finger to measure your oxygen, that they will be able to

do an oxygen display. And that in this era of COVID, looking at your oxygen number and being able to see if you have enough oxygen is actually a bigger selling point. So whether it's that or something else though, if it's a new sensor for health, you get it and you get the point. What's your second pick? Oh boy, this is hard.

This is hard. I am going to go with the low cost watch omitting always-on-display. And this is a tough one because, again, the SE argument is it does most of what the current one does, but it does need to be cheaper. It's going to have to find some features somewhere, isn't it? Yeah, and the always-on- And that's the always on display. There are some special display technologies that they're using.

Now, it would give Apple it would save Apple a lot if they only had to make one display. But it would also save Apple a lot if they could use the same cheap display that they're using in the existing model and just keep it there instead of making this other display that's more expensive. So I don't have a huge confidence in this, but I'm going to throw it out there. That's a brand new feature that we got last year and that it's more taxing in terms of battery. Perhaps this one will have, they don't want to tax its battery so much.

Perhaps it even has less battery. I don't even know. But I think that that's an easy feature to let go. But I also want to acknowledge the risk here, which is that apple might just say no we're going to standardize on one display and it's going to be the display that's in the series five for this model instead of the display that's in the series uh three or four yeah i can see that like i i see why you've gone for this pick i can also see why you are

in two minds about it a little bit right but But if you're going to make this product cheaper, you have to cut a cost somewhere. And the always-on display has only appeared in one of the five watch models. And you also need to not only just cut costs, you have to give people reasons to upgrade, right? They need reasons to get the series six and an always on display could be part of that right like there has to be some reason why somebody would pay the extra 100 150 dollars 200 dollars whatever that's right to get the the

main model and this could be yeah the question is what the differentiators are but there have to be differentiators they can't literally say we've got two new models to introduce you today there's the series 6 and there's uh the the se which is identical to the series 6 but cheap probably not going to do that and if we were going back to that iphone argument you know the only differences between the sorry the main difference between the 12 and the 12 Pro is the screen technology. So, similarly,

right? Yeah. And that's because, I mean, again, like, one of the things that can help

is if you use older screens in your devices, you know how to make them, your yields are higher. It is a way to bring the prices down. Yeah,

and they do want to make it a cheaper to make object that they can sell for a lower price and keep their margins up. So I have one that's a little bit out of the box here, but I've got some thinking behind it. My second pick is that somebody will wash their hands

during the presentation. Almost picked this one. It's a good one. It's a feature of WatchOS, so why would they not demo that? And it will give them a little joke to do uh when going between scenes so like i expect at some point they will go to like a bathroom in apple park and like craig's washing his hands you know like but i somebody's going to wash their hands during this presentation because it allows them to demo that feature allows them to add a little joke in and i expect and will also allow them to use the scenery that they have at apple park at their disposal um i mean we hadn't spoken about this but my expectation

is that this event will look just like wwdc from a production perspective right like that's my yes because it seems i had also heard that they were shooting on campus again so i'm very confident it will look the same yeah i mean i i don't know why you wouldn't just replicate that because it worked so well and i think it was it didn't just work well it was like critically acclaimed right like everybody loved it so why would you not do that and let me tell you because I have been in one, the bathrooms at Apple Park are exactly what you'd expect from an Apple design. Like, it's the same design look as the Apple stores. And, like, it's, yeah, it would be a fun place. And then people would see what an Apple Park bathroom looks like.

They've made all that effort to make them look nice. You got to show it off. So I think this is a good one. The only thing that gave me hesitation here is that it's a feature that was already announced at WWDC. So they make a loss over it and not spend the time on it. But I feel like it's a pretty good pick

because there's a real high chance, high probability that they're going to use this, as you said, as a way to sort of punctuate the health features of the apple watch and watch os yeah i mean it's like with the iphone they always spend time going back over ios right and so i expect that they will spend time going back over watch os and frankly there isn't a lot in watch os um it does make me wonder if one of the actually i don't know if this is a pick or not

uh there's a pick here that i so I won't talk about it now. We'll get to the end of this and then I'll mention what I was going to say. Okay. What is your third pick? Your last Apple Watch pick? I am going to pick that the watch body, among the color options,

there's a new color option. I don't know what the color option is. And what I'm saying is an option that doesn't exist currently. So if they brought back an old color option, an old material option that we had in the past, but we don't currently have, I want credit for this,

but I think they're going to change it up. I think that, and again, I think this is a risky pick because sometimes they don't, but I do feel like innately in Apple watch is change in look. And if they don't change the body massively, they still like to rotate in some new looks. And that comes in watch band colors. It sometimes comes in watch band styles and it can come in the body color and body style as well. i don't know what this is i have always been a big proponent of colorful apple products and wishing that they would do more

anodize that aluminum make it red make it blue make it green i think that would be fun if you could buy a green apple watch aluminum model i think that would be awesome. But just in general, a little bit of wish casting here, but also feeling like Apple likes to play with the look of the Apple Watch on the surface level. So I'll take a shot.

Yeah, I would just confirm for the sake of people checking the pics. So this can even be a new material uh well a material that doesn't exist in the series five line so it could have existed before so if they bring that gray ceramic for example that would count sure or it's a new color of an existing material right like like a blue aluminum yeah exactly so which i think like if they brought back rose gold did they ever have rose gold?

Did they always have just that one rosy gold in the Apple Watch? I don't remember. I don't know. We'll have to check on that. We'll get our sources on it. But yes, and that means yes, Mike, if they bring back the solid gold Apple Watch, I win. I mean, sure. Do you win?

We all win. We all win when the solid gold Apple watch is here so before I make my pick I will make the point that I was going to make earlier before I forget it talking about like software features what I was going to say is like watch over 7

doesn't have a lot of new stuff in it and one of the things it does have is sleep tracking so I could imagine them doing something around sleep tracking which could relate back to that sensor this is a pick that we have but it's not the pick that i'm making but that was the idea i think i think it's a a dare i say it risky pick because um it may be that the software is all they're doing for sleep tracking but I do think

it's possible that since they have that software that there will also be something in the hardware that enhances the sleep tracking yeah that we haven't seen because they haven't announced the hardware yet but I didn't pick it either so I don't blame you all right so I was gonna pick your pick for my final pick here so we we have been really on point today we've been sniping each other here we are building this is the great thing about the draft it's a competition it's also a collaboration where we build our best list so i'm looking over my picks here all right so i think the thing that i'm going to go with is that the apple watch gets claims of extended battery life right so this is where they say essentially the battery life is longer yeah or they say a number

that is larger than the number they say now yeah exactly like you know that it's somehow we can see during the presentation that the battery life would appear to be getting better and they see that they say it's getting better or they say this gets this battery life. And that's more than what the Watch is currently getting. Yeah, I think that's good. Knowing what we assume at least, which is that since, as I mentioned earlier, the Watch OS update removes 3D Touch

from the operating system, that it will be removed from the hardware. And what we've seen when they removed it from the iPhone hardware is you pick up space. And space is at such a premium on the Apple Watch. So really there are two options there. Either it gets thinner or it gets more battery. And you throw in also that a new chip

probably is better at regulating um battery usage and it's not a bad pick to make because i could also imagine them saying the se is like because if it's got it doesn't have them always on display it's the same size and doesn't have uh force touch 3d touch i could imagine them saying like this is the longest battery life we've ever seen on an apple watch yeah you know i i've amended your pick to be an apple watch it's claim of extended battery life it could be either model it could be either model that's that's a good clarification so they are apple watch picks so that's three picks down let's move on to ipad so our next picks four to six ipad only picks take it away jason oh boy um i'm gonna go out of the gate with a i think a fairly substantially

rumored guess which is that this is going to be a new ipad presumably ipad air although who knows about the marketing name but what they're going to do is they're going to bring the edge-to-edge screen design to the iPad. They're going to get rid of those huge bezels and the home button on the bottom and all that stuff that we, those of us who are using the modern iPad Pro are like, oh, that's like an iPad from two years ago. But it's literally all the other iPads are like that still. It's only the iPad Pro that changed. So this is part of something that we've talked about here before. The idea that the iPad Air allows Apple to bring iPad Pro features down in pricing because not everybody wants to buy a $900 iPad. And Apple has been really aggressive at bringing things like Apple Pencil down to the lower-priced iPads pretty quickly, which I think says something about their confidence in the value that is still embedded in the iPad Pro at the top of the line. So I think it's a rumor that makes sense to me. I think they want to go there with all of these products, and it's just a matter of rolling them out over time.

And iPad Air is up next next so it gets it and so just to clarify we're just saying new ipad with edge to edge screen design so it could be it could i mean like us imagine it did nothing to the ipad air but the ipad mini got this right like that would work too yeah it doesn't have to be the ipad air it doesn't have to be called ipad air it's a new a new iPad that drops that shrinks down the bezels gets rid of the home button and part of the reason that we're saying new iPad is I don't know what they will call this iPad

I don't know if this just becomes iPad or it's iPad Air or whatever and frankly if they introduced a new iPad Pro, it's not going to change the design. It's not what it is.

This is a non-pro iPad. Jason is amending the pick now. New non-pro iPad with edge-to-edge screen design. So I am going to say new non-pro iPad gets a flat-edge design. All right. So we're very on track again with this one. I think we've mentioned this in the past. This iPad Pro design is not just the iPad Pro design.

It is 2020 onwards Apple design, right? Of like a more kind of industrial design, flat edges, sharper corners. You know, we've seen this coming to the iPhone. We've seen this coming, rumored to be coming to the iMac, right? So like we are seeing like a flat edge design on a new non-pro iPad. Right.

And I'm just going to say it now because Steve ML on the chat room said, what if it's the iPad mini pro or something like that? Look, the point is you don't get any points if they just revise an existing iPad pro that's got't have before. That's what we're talking about here. I think we know it when we see it. I love it when we are more in agreement as the competitors than the audiences about who's right and who's wrong. Yeah. I think that's good. I think these are the rumors, right?

Is that Apple wants to push all of this stuff down into everybody else's iPad, right? They want to do that. right i'm gonna uh pick up from your pick then and run with it and say that that means since it's got a flat edge design it's going to be pencil 2 compatible because pencil ipad pencil is is fine and all but then you use the ipad pencil 2 and if you've ever gone back to the original iPad Pencil, you're like, what is this? Like with the cap, with the lightning nubbin under it and all of that, the new Pencil is so good. And I think this Apple wants to roll it down and ultimately stop making Apple Pencil 1. And the problem with Apple Pencil 2 is it charges inductively and you have to stick

it to the side of the iPad, which means you have to have a flat sided iPad, which this iPad that we're guessing about is going to be. So why would it not bring support for Pencil 2? Now there is a possibility they'll do the flat sides, but they'll save money by not adding the inductive charging and they'll still use Pencil 1 and you'll still have a lightning port on it, which is a pick that's out there and you'll have to plug it it in but i believe that apple really wants to get rid of that old approach and uh move everybody to the new one so it's the time predict pencil two yeah it's the time like the the i think it's we've seen it right like that the ipad line is like the mac laptop line really where like the the professional models get a certain feature

and it will eventually roll its way down through the entire consumer line as well as the professional line. And we have seen that happening with the iPad Pro since its existence, and we're going to continue to see that here. So we're going to see... And so I think, really,

the reason they go to the flat-edge design for this new iPad is so it can be compatible with Apple Pencil 2. This was my next pick for that reason. Like, I think that there is a cause and effect here. It's not just for design. It's also for function. And I think they're going to move it down that way. Yep.

Also, you don't want the confusion, right? Yes. Oh, wait, wait. This one looks like that one, but it doesn't use that. It uses this. Like, why would that would that like it doesn't make sense they want to because this is part of a a sweep that will eventually encompass the entire ipad line yeah so like why would you do a half measure when you're gonna want to get the a pencil to everywhere eventually i don't think it's happening this time but like i believe that the magic keyboard will come to these to the lower ipads in the

future but just not yet and so like you know this is the the march forward right where it's like you can now give the apple pencil 2 to other ipads because the pro ipads were differentiated by the fact that they have the magic keyboard and with track, right? So like, you know, I think that Apple is smart here, right? Like you've got to give some, clearly the iPads these days, big part of it for Apple is what accessories can we sell, right? Because it bumps up the numbers. It's great for the iPad, right?

The iPad is a really accessory heavy product for Apple now, and it's good for it. And I think they learned that with the iPad Pro, but they can't give all the accessories to all of the products really accessory-heavy product for Apple now, and it's good for it, and I think they learned that with the iPad Pro. But they can't give all the accessories to all of the products because it reduces a reason for somebody to spend the extra on the iPad Pro. I believe Apple sell more.

I would expect that they sell more iPad Pros now because of the Magic Keyboard. People want that. So they maybe spend the extra couple of hundred bucks and get the iPad Pro instead. But, you know, we'll see. So I'm actually going to diverge a little from my current thinking to say that I reckon that this new iPad with its edge-to-edge screen and its flat-edge design will still

have a Touch ID sensor. Interesting. Very interesting. a touch id sensor interesting very interesting so this is there is a rumor out there that apple is not putting in the face id sensor bank yeah on these things but instead has built touch id into a different part of the device the rumor is it's actually on the sleep wake button and that that's where you will press with your finger and it will unlock which it would be interesting right that would be interesting to see a new touch id implementation that we haven't seen from apple before versus just putting the face id stuff in there like

it's in all the other products i think that again going back to like with the apple watch se you've got to save some money somewhere and this could be one of the places that you're able to save some money not putting face id in there and i also think that this technology putting touch id in a sleep wake button i believe is going to be a future technology for other apple products anyway so i i or at least having touch id return to face id products i think will be a thing that they do so yeah this is an expectation that i have uh for this product line and again it's like another differentiator for the pro the pro has face id yeah i think i think you are making an important uh following an important line which is what do you what do you hold back from the ipad air that you have in the ipad pro and there are two ways of looking at this and one is you want to hold back on things in order to drive people

to your more expensive ipad the other way to view it is you hold back on things that cost because then you can make the product cheaper and sell it at a lower price and still keep your margins high. So there are two different ways to approach it. And Apple has done both and can choose both. And I think that what's interesting to us is trying to pick that apart. And also we're in this interesting state where we had this kind of not an update to the iPad Pro that just happened. And I think you and I are both anticipating that there's probably a new wave of iPad Pros coming that are going to have features that make them that much more impressive compared to the iPad Air, but we don't know what they are yet and they're not here yet. So this is all kind of floating out there of like, what exactly does Apple do to make the iPad Air different from the iPad Pro?

What is your final pick in the iPad round? Well, I'm going to pick what you said wasn't going to happen, which is that it's going to be compatible with the Magic Keyboard. Interesting. Okay. current iPad Air and the current 11-inch iPad Pro are so close in size that I feel like they could build the iPad Air's body on the 11-inch iPad Pro's body, make the dimensions the same, add the smart connector to the back, just as they're adding the Apple Pencil connector, we're saying, to the little charger to the side. And then it would fit all of the existing, because this is something that Apple has strived to do lately, which is if you can make a new iPad that fits existing accessories, you don't have to make new variations on those accessories. And you know what? The Magic Keyboard costs a lot of money.

And if Apple can open up an even wider market to sell more of those expensive keyboards to people who are buying a $500 iPad Air instead of a $900 or $800 iPad Pro, like why not do that? So I think they will go down that path and they will make it the same size. It's not going to have the big, you know, camera bank on the back, but that's okay because the new Magic Keyboard fits the older iPad Pro that doesn't have the big camera bank on the back too. They designed it to be backward compatible. And I think when you look at that and you think Apple actually does want to sell the Magic Keyboard to as many iPad users as possible. So why not make, you can use the smart keyboard for the 11-inch Pro. You can use the Magic Keyboard for the 11-inch Pro in the iPad Air, and it'll be okay because these iPad Pros are going to get more

features next year, and there'll still be enough differentiation there. So yeah, I'm not 100% confident on this, but it feels like the right thing for them to do, which is just let anybody who wants to buy our Magic Keyboard go to town. Just more people buying that expensive keyboard that Apple makes a lot of money on, great. Let's do it. Now, for my final pick, I don't have anything that I'm particularly confident in, nor do I want to pick the exact same pick that I made on Connected, which is that the new iPad will get a LiDAR sensor, because in the past, I have doubled down on picks too often and then been sad when they didn't come true. Yeah.

So I'm actually going to do something unprecedented for me, Jason. I'm going to play against myself. And for my final pick, say that the new iPad will get Face ID. This is actually not unprecedented. I believe once before you had two picks that conflicted with each other. I want to guarantee a point in this round. yeah i'm gonna do that all right i'm not confident enough in anything for my third pick right so we have again i'll just go through we have it left to pick from this new ipad mini not confident in that new ipad pro i'm not confident in that. New iPad to get a LiDAR sensor, I don't want to double down.

Or new iPad to get USB-C, and I'm still not sure about that one. I don't, maybe. I feel like that is, if I had another pick, that's what I'd pick. Because I think that it goes with everything else, which is just, eventually, are all the iPads going to have USB-C? Yeah, they are. They iPads going to have USB-C? Yeah, they are. They're all going to have it. As soon as they get Apple Pencil 2 support,

that lightning is going to turn to USB-C. And, you know, I just feel like that's all part of the whole here. But I get you. It's less certain than some of these other guesses. I believe it could happen, but I'm deciding to guarantee myself a point in this round instead that's that's the

decision that i've come to i may come to regret it but for me like i i feel that the lidar on the usbc kind of like a equal chance of happening or not happening so i'm kind of just gonna just go with giving myself uh and you know what jason maybe in some wild world, I put both on the iPad, and I get two points. But that seems incredibly unlikely. But you never know, right? And wouldn't that be, for me, just a wonderful thing to occur, that it has both Touch ID and Face ID, and then I get two points. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine the celebration that I would have if that such a thing was to occur? That would be fascinating, but it probably won't happen.

But you'll be kicking yourself if it's USB-C, but it may not be. With three mandatory picks about every single one of these products, we end up with some really weird picks. There's only so many things you can pick. This episode is brought to you by DoorDash. You have so much on your to-do list, from laundry, to emails, to errands, to goodness knows what else. Give yourself one less thing to worry about and let DoorDash take care of your next meal. DoorDash is the app that brings food that you're craving right now to your door.

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went to a friend's house that they usually rent out. And we had a couple midweek dates there, got out of our house for the first time in six months. And what that meant was ordering from new restaurants and having them bring us food, which was really great because you don't have to go outside in the smoke that we have right now in the hazardous air. Instead, we have somebody just bring it to our door and they knock and they leave and it's contactless and super great, super convenient. Right now, listeners of this show can get $5 off and zero delivery fees

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Don't forget, that's UPGRADE for $5 off your first order with DoorDash. Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and RelayFM. Alright, Jason, so we are moving into our final round, which we are referring to as free picking for this round. Yes, it's wide open.

Because we have a selection of categories, so ranging from audio-based picks to Mac picks to software picks to iPhone or general miscellaneous products or services that Apple may be pulling from for this event all stuff that we believe is due to arrive by and large by the end of the year so it's uh quite free and open so jason hit me with your first pick in our final round oh boy this is so it's so hard this is such a weird event there are four picks in this round by the way yeah because we want to we want a nice uh nice 10 i'm gonna say that apple will

apple will mention that the iphone is coming later this fall oh okay okay yeah i can imagine this so i can very much imagine the end of the presentation being like, Tim, like, and join us again later this fall when we show you what we're working on with the iPhone, something like that. like that and the reason i say this because this is apple does not come comment on on speculation about future products but what you said early on in this episode really goes here which is apple really does i think need to make it clear that iphones are coming but that this isn't the iphone event yeah and so i think mentioning at some point forward promoting if you will that there will be iphones but not now is something that they are going to need to do um you know they might not they might just play it cool but i feel like it might what what's the harm in just saying yeah we know you are excited about the iphone we are too

stay tuned um but you know i i admit that this is a risk but i do think it's maybe a smart move on their part to to just call it otherwise they do risk people getting kind of angry because we all know that that everybody's been given the high sign that there are no iphones but uh the general public doesn't know so making it clear making a clear statement that they're on the way uh later this fall and you'll hear more from us then would be a way to do that yeah i think that it i mean because it's like it's not like they haven't already said that iphones are coming later this year like they've have already said it you know what i mean like they said it on the conference call right like that our iphones

will be late so it's it's not like that they are saying they will you know it's like they're trying to pretend there won't be iphones this year or something right like and this and we there's no argument about the fact that this is the time that it usually happens exactly amber right apple keep to that schedule this is them not keeping to that schedule so it may be i think it would behoove them to mention it at least and to set that expectation. This was not my first pick. It was my second pick, but it was one that I was going to have. Mine is actually

I think one of the things that they are going to do to fill this presentation with a little bit of time is to do a bunch of fitness demos because they will be introducing an apple fitness workout service some kind of subscription thing some video thing i think this ties in with the apple watch part of the presentation quite quite heavily it will potentially tie into if

they're going to talk about services at all which I think the other part of this will be talking about services in general in this event. It gives them a little bit of time because they don't have to squeeze this demo down to fit in with a bigger product launch. And also, the Apple Park setting is the perfect setting with their gym um or even just some some more nondescript rooms right to show you kind of like working out in your living room with apple's fitness service i think that this is uh this is the time that i'll introduce that yeah this is we were really harsh on this rumor when it came out the idea that they would try to get in yet another kind of game using their advantage. But I also see the...

I can see them doing it. The rumor's out there. I can totally see it. I don't necessarily think they should or nor do I really want them to because I think that this is maybe something that can just be left to other companies because Apple do not have to do everything

even though they feel like they do these days. But I do think it's something they're going to do where I think that they should or shouldn't is a different matter. Yeah. even though they feel like they do these days. But I do think it's something they're going to do. Whether I think that they should or shouldn't is a different matter. Yeah. All right. Yeah, the choices keep getting harder. I am going to go for it and say over-the-ear Apple-branded headphones are going to make their debut. Oh, boy, Jason Snell snell yeah this is bold well

i'm i'm out of i'm out of easy picks okay okay okay this is a bold one this is a time for a bold one like i think that this is a product that will exist but it definitely feels more like an introduction with the iphone but but i can also see why they would do it now because it's not as tied to the iphone as airpods are i guess right exactly it'll work with existing iphones it'll work with other stuff it gets it out there if they're ready for it and the rumors have been out there that they've been working on this for a while now if they're ready for it getting it in the channel with plenty of time for the holiday season to get people to buy uh those those uh headphones i don't i honestly don't think this is any bolder than the apple with plenty of time for the holiday season to get people to buy those headphones.

I honestly don't think this is any bolder than the Apple Fitness workout service as a pick because I think they're both a little bit chancy because Apple could announce them now or later and they could exist or not exist because they're based on kind of rumors. But of all of the kind of rumored hardware products that might get picked in this free pick round for us, I feel like maybe it's time for this one. And Apple, I know it seems like it's more tied to the iPhone, but I will say you could argue that wearables is a key strategy for Apple and the other part of wearables other than the Apple Watch and possibly even the more popular part of wearables is AirPods and the AirPods line.

And if you think along those lines, having this be a part of the presentation kind of fits because it's about Apple and wearables instead of about sort of iPhone accessories. Wow. I almost convinced myself there. I know that this is a product that I personally really want to see now. I know. But we'll see. now you got to be rooting for me haha well it's my consolation if you're right yes that i get the thing that i want excellent i'm going to make my second pick in this round that the watch os 7 release date will be announced makes sense an exciting pick by any stretch of the imagination but uh i think we're going to get some software release dates because i mean personally i think all the software is coming in september whether people like my friend federico want it to happen or not um and considering they

will be showing off the apple watch and watch over seven i can imagine saying and you'll get these great features on whatever date. Yeah, I think the only chance that this isn't the case is, and I want to be clear here, if they say that it runs watchOS 7 and they say that it's coming out on a certain date, the watches, that's not saying watchOS 7 is out on that date. No, they have to say watch os 7 will be available for customers on such great features all right yeah i think so i think i had a debate about the

software releases because i can see them saying it and i can see them not saying it i i just i can see both sides i think it makes like a lot of our picks i would probably advocate for them saying it but apple does all sorts of stuff that I wouldn't do. And I will say, like, I mean, we can maybe debate this. I'll see if you agree. Even them saying, like, watch OS 7 will be available in... Later this month. Later this month, I would say still counts.

Yeah. Because it's basically just acknowledging that it's coming. Right. accounts um because it's basically just acknowledging that it's coming right like that's which i don't think is a thing that you can bank on right now but i think is a thing that they that they will do i agree um i i think a little less likely because of the iphone not being a part of this event but there is an ipad as a part of this event we're thinking and if they're going to mention the release of watchOS, I think that they will then also mention that iOS is coming out in the same timeframe. So I'm going to just throw that on the fire and say my next pick is iOS 14 date announced.

I can actually imagine personally, and I think that this is pretty conceivable, that the iOS 14 rehash will be in this presentation even though the iPhone won't be. When they spend that time going over the software again I think they'll do it here. I think they'll do it alongside the iPad part. Maybe they'll bring out a current gen iPhone to show off widgets on the iPhone. I personally

think that both of these software releases are happening before the end of September and I don't think the next event are happening before the end of September and I don't think the next event will be before the end of September I don't see how they do an original event just for the Apple Watch and not give it a release date and

not have it run the latest version of WatchOS which requires the latest version of iOS I just don't see I think that chain of events is shipping with WatchOS 6 I don't see i think that chain of events watch is shipping with watch os 6 i know like people one like well no i don't think that's happening whenever this this is coming it's coming with watch os 7 yeah i think apple know that this is the thing that they maybe should be targeting or they have just made the decision that you know what this is just too difficult and they'll do

what you know they will release them different times like i i don't think that that they are going to create a version of watch over six that can run on apple watch series six i just don't think they're going to spend the energy doing that and if they mention an ipad os release date and not an ios release date which seems highly unlikely to me i'm going to take that too but i don't i think i think they come in a bundle yeah that's fine uh technically they don't but we'll say it's fine if they announce either ios or ipad os because last year ipad os came out at a different time to ios um but if they mention either ios or ipad os is uh 14s release time frame that will count for either or for me. I think that's fine. Yep. That was going to be my next pick,

so I am going to circle back around to services and say that we were at this event, we'll see the introduction of an Apple services bundle, because what is a draft at this time of year without me making this pick? Plus, there is a lot more smoke at the moment than... Well, that's for sure. It's right outside my house.

There's a lot more uh signals than usual about services bundle uh lots of reports and also i saw someone noting that apple was registering a bunch of like apple one which is apparently the name domain names yeah and again they had an android apple music app leak which amazing be still the lack of attention to detail if they're trying to keep secrecy but yeah a bundle might might be the challenge with this pick is is it now is it next time exactly but it could happen so my my rationale on this is there's still a ton of hardware that we are not talking about right now right all of which will be four iphones and as of right now during this draft new exciting macintoshes and there's a lot to cover in those you may as well give everything more time to breathe by having two basically two

hour events instead of one two-hour event right so spread it out and and one one two-hour event and one 89 minute long event let's yeah yes of course sorry sorry how could i forget how could i forget finally pick jason snell boy uh it's getting down to it i i so want to pick mac not mentioned but i think they will mention the mac in passing right i think they will mention it in passing and say, you know, we've got great Macs coming with Apple Silicon and or Mac OS High Sierra is great and that's

coming out later this year or something like that. I think that there's a real chance that they will mention the Mac in passing, not give it the complete cold shoulder, which makes me not want to choose that. So, oh boy, I'm going i'm gonna say apple tv content trailers on it okay uh that that they will show some video of uh of stuff from apple tv plus that

you know they will they will take a moment to preview something that's coming on apple tv plus uh for all mankind has a trailer that they that's coming on Apple TV Plus. For All Mankind has a trailer that's out there that they might show. They might debut a different show. There's a question of what they've got that's coming that they can actually show, but they've got some stuff. And they're going into their second year of Apple TV Plus. So they got to mention at some point, it could be at the iPhone event or it could be here. There's some rumors about new Apple TV hardware update as well. That could happen now or it could happen later. But regardless,

I don't know. I'm running out of things to pick and this never bet against Apple promoting Apple TV Plus with some trailers. I am really scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

Did I snipe that one from you? I was considering it. Okay, yeah. Yeah, it's tough. And I'm going to go with... You can go with Mac not mentioned. Well, I thought about that, but I think that that one at this point

might be a little tricky. Yeah, same as me. I think they're proud enough to mention it. Because I've also personally i know i have not personally ruled out the possibility of of the first apple silicon mac occurring this event like i think that the percentages are slim but i don't think the percentages are none i agree i think that there is a possibility of this. But I'm going to go with, oh, God, new version of the HomePod. Okay.

I don't really have much to say on it. Either there will be a cheaper one or they'll do something to it. So one of the things for this is, I've heard this a bunch, the HomePod is running old chips, and eventually they're going to want to start getting rid of those. It's the same as the Apple TV. I was tossing up personally between new version of the HomePod and new version of the Apple TV. I think those and the headphones are all in the same percentage chance of happening, right?

Which is they're out there. Air tags too, right? They're out there. When will Apple announce them? Whenever it feels like it. Who knows when that is, right? Maybe this time. Maybe not. Maybe this time, maybe not.

Maybe this year, maybe not. We just don't know, but they're out there. So I think new version of HomePod is just as likely as some of these other choices, including mine that you said was a bold choice. So yeah, I feel like, you know, this is the true gambling part of the draft, right? Which is the things that we have a pretty good idea from reports are going to happen, but we don't know when. And that's the trick here is you have to pick now is the time for this product. And we just don't know. So that's fun. It's exciting. It means

that we'll have a little extra when we're watching the event on Tuesday. So that's it for the draft. so that's it for the draft you wanna we're gonna be back tomorrow yes Tuesday bonus upgrade Tuesday we're splitting upgrade this is like a little mini upgrade and then you get a little like bonus maxi upgrade

tomorrow it's just we're all over the place this is the small iPhone and tomorrow is the big iPhone. This is Upgrade Mini. And we're going to get Upgrade Max Pro. Yes. Pro Max. Pro Max tomorrow, yeah, sure. So thank you so much for tuning in to this

very special draft event. And we'll be back with more from recording as soon as we can after the event tomorrow, the event today, maybe depending on when you're listening to this, but you can expect as usual that we will have all of our reactions and opinions and hot takes as soon as we can get them out after the event. As always, you can get an ad-free version of Upgrade of additional content if you go to getupgradeplus.com. It's a

great way to get that. I think in today's, we're going to do a bit of draft debrief. I have some thoughts that I want to share, Jason, with this new model that we've had here of the category, so we can maybe talk about that. Thank you so much to Smile and DoorDash for their support of this episode. If you want to find Jason online, it's at jsnl, J-S-N-E-L-L, sixcolors.com, where you'll find lots of great content about the Apple event.

Are you going to be live tweeting, Jason? Oh, probably. I feel like I am the person who reminds you about this before everyone. No, I mean, Dan and I go back and forth about it. I mean, I will tweet some things. I don't, the volume, everybody can watch live. The volume

of play-by-play is not, doesn't need to be large, but sure. Six Colors event is the Twitter account that will feature all of those kind of blow-by-blow mentions. And you can find information about this episode

over at relay.fm slash upgrade slash 315 there and also in your show notes in the podcast app of choice. You will find a link to Zach Knox's wonderful interactive scorecard so you can score along with us and I love to see people tweeting at us their results

mostly because the numbers are always different and I find that so interesting to see what people score and what they don't. So that's it for this episode. We'll be back. Don't forget stjude.org slash relay. Go and

donate. Thank you so much, if you do. So until tomorrow, Jason Snell, say goodbye. See you tomorrow, Mike.