Upgrade - 345: Hovering Over My Desk on New Years Eve

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

Myke and Jason celebrate 20 years of OS X by discussing how we use our Macs today and whether the arrival of Apple silicon is changing how we work, not just today but over the rest of this year. We also discuss whether Apple should do "events" anymore, big news in the conflict between streaming and theatrical movies, and the possibility of a more rugged Apple Watch.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode three four five today's show is brought to you by doordash uni pizza ovens and loopback from rogamiba my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snell hello jason Snell. Six, seven, eight. Are we counting? Is that what we're doing? I love it when you do the numerology. I love it. Sometimes the episode numbers are just too fun to say in the normal way.

Yeah, that's a good one. I like it. I have a hashtag snow talk question, which is also follow out and it comes from Ryan and Ryan wants to know, Jason, what is your preferred device appearance i.e light mode dark mode or automatic switching on your iphone ipad and mac oh boy so last week on

connected yes you you fellows discussed that your uh your standard device preference options whatever and uh the the response was basically like you were you were sort of uh one person on the dark mode side one person on the light mode side and then one person in the middle in the middle except that i revealed that i too am also in the middle but it's a different middle yeah um so So I am dark mode on my iPhone always. It's an OLED screen. It's beautiful in dark mode. I am light mode on my Mac always. Because, you know, even when you put the Mac in dark mode,

so many things are assumed that it's light. Like I'm looking at my google doc here and like it's just it it you end up with these squares of just blasting whiteness in the middle of the dark mode it's it's bad i don't like it um but on my ipad i am uh automatic change with time okay so so uh during the day uh my ipad's in light mode and at night my ipad's in dark mode and i have at my apps are pretty great at um at changing with the mode on my ipad um like twitterific which i use a lot it's a dark theme and a light theme and it it changes automatically and that works great for me so i'm So I'm a little mixed up just here and there,

depending on device. I choose what's best for the device and how I use it. That's how it should be. So we were starting to get a lot of people send in to us their preferences. So Stephen created a survey. I'll put a link in the show notes if you want to participate in the connected mode survey. You can tell us what you use, dark, light, or auto on your three

main devices. And on this week's episode of Connected, we're going to reveal the results. I have access to it. I'm obviously not going to share, but I am very surprised with the results so far. They are not at all what I would have expected. So I recommend that you also submit your preferences. Links in the show notes. And thank you to Ryan for that hashtag SnellTalk question. If you'd like to send in a question to help us open a future episode of the show,

just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk or use question mark SnellTalk in the RelayFM members Discord. Last week was 20 years of Mac OS X and all of my Mac buddies, which includes you and Stephen, were posting and releasing lots of various things. You had a selection of articles

and things that you were linking to on Six Colors and you were also talking to John Gruber about it on the talk show as well. Mm-hmm. It's true. I mean mean there are lots of anniversaries from uh from os 10 release honestly if but to be honest it feels like the last couple of years like last year and this year it's just like lots of anniversaries in general like big ones it feels like things just keep i don't know maybe it's something that... No, it is... Well, so Jobs came back to Apple in 97,

took charge mid-year, killed the clones toward the end of the year. Early 98, the iMac. And so in that period from like 98 to 2001, what happened was they got their hardware act together on the Mac side, started making progress there. Although it was more like, what could they do relatively quickly? So the iMac and they made the G3 towers, you know, colorful plastic instead of boring beige. And they did a first take on the laptops.

I mean, I went through all of this when I was doing my 20, 20, 20 max for 2020 research. 2020 for 2020. 2020, 21 for 21, 25 for 25, 25, 25, 25. Anyway, it goes on and on. So it was an interesting period, but it was really like a getting up to speed period in that first few years and keeping in mind um just for people who miss this this is the 20th anniversary of os 10 being released apple bought next in order to integrate os 10 as their future operating system strategy or the next operating system as their future operating system strategy in december of 1996 so i mean it was a long time it was essentially four years

where they had to get up to speed think about that think about how many years where they had to get up to speed. Think about that. Think about how many years between the purchase of Next and the release of OS X. And yes, there was Rhapsody and Mac OS X Server, which was very weird,

both very weird. And then there was the developer preview and developer preview next and next developer preview. And then there was the public beta. And then there was 10.0. And then, by the way, this fall will be

the 20th anniversary of 10.1, which is the first version that I felt like you could actually stay booted into and use. So it took them years to go from next purchase to shipping product. Years. So that was what they were doing. They were doing get os 10 out the door and prop up the mac in the meantime for it to be viable and so like the imac and all the stuff they were doing the next phase though of the steve jobs return era was like the stuff that they could more strategically work on because they weren't just trying to stay alive and get the bridge to the future. And that's where you started to see the silver laptops, right? Because that was a preference, not the black laptops, the silver laptops.

And they worked on that. And the iPod came out and that changed everything, obviously. And they pushed on the iPod for a while. And then in the background, they're working on a tablet that they decide is going to be a phone instead and it leads to um the iphone in six years from the release date of os 10 10.0 six ish years um so they found another gear in that in that decade but also just keep in mind that like if you really look at it it was like four or five years where when jobs came back which is think about that that's a long time four years where apple uh i think because the imac came out people that that gave them something to focus

on but like os 10 it took them a long time and then after four ish years that's when the jobs uh transformation of apple and its products really happened and that was that next decade right so i i just think it's funny that os 10 you know it seems like there's this milestone it's like aha that was it but like if you were living through it it was like three plus years of apple dithering, trying to find an answer for classic back OS and failing and then them buying next. And then it was another three or four years before they actually shipped something that people could use.

So, um, it was a weird time, but we celebrate that time. Yeah. I know it's, I mean, it's,

uh, it's huge, right? Because when they finally did ship that, that is the foundation for everything on the software side that they've done since, more or less. Other than the iPod. Yeah, everything. Other than the iPod, right? The iPod was a licensed operating system, right? That's weird. But that's what it was.

rating system right that's weird but that's what it was but like mac iphone ipod or mac iphone ipad apple tv apple watch home pod i guess like i mean it's the apple watch it's the basis of all that stuff so this week ends march and begins april we are still waiting on a couple of things that we spoke about a few weeks ago uh no wwc announcement which makes it the latest that this has ever happened that this has happened in recent recorded history for good reason right but just funny to me um makes me wonder when they're actually gonna have it like when in june is it in june who knows you know i had this i had this thought i was just like walking around thinking about this today i was like what if they just were like here you go right it's like it was never it's like you know like i'm reminded of when they released um ios 14 within 24 hours right that like just one day all of a sudden it's like here's everything

right like they don't need to make us all sit down and wait for a certain period of time they just drop it all at once with no pre-announcement it's funny to think about it they won't do it that way and the reason they won't do it that way is they're going to want to crow about whatever is great in their next os releases and they're going to want to control the message which is why they're going to they're all they're going to do like that's the advantage of the wwdc format is you can uh sort of tell the big picture to people and make the big announcements and then you can get into some details for developers and then you can like roll out the sessions and make the downloads available and so you can control the rollout of the information and control the message a little bit. And they like that.

And so I think the format of the conference works even without the conference existing. But you are right. They can do it whenever. They can do it in June. They can do it in July. They can do it in August. They can do it whenever they want. But my guess is it'll probably still be sometime in June. Unclear whether it'll be back to early June or whether they're like, late June was fine. Let's just do late June again. I don't know. But I think still be sometime in june unclear whether it'll be back to early june or whether they're like yeah late june was fine let's just do late june again i don't know but i think i think um for wwdc that's what um i think it works i think it makes sense it's it's the one other than the iphone i guess it's the one event on apple's calendar that really can't be done via uh press release or just a quick video that drops on the, on the site.

Yeah. In the same way that like, you know, I am just joking around. Like, I don't believe any of that. Like, cause in the same way that they,

you've got to give people some kind of notice because people need to block it into their work calendars and stuff. You know, a lot of people that they take a big chunk of that week off to get up to speed with the new stuff so they can get working on it straight away. Right. like it's a normal part of the flow and in the same way apple need to be able to allocate their engineering resource for that period of time so but you know what what they do have now is like they can just

work out whenever is best for them they don't have any external dependencies right this year probably the same as last year maybe last year they they were struggling a bit right because they was trying to work it out so this year they've had an entire year to plan out when it's best for them but they don't need to announce it in march because people don't need to plan travel and the only reason they announced it in march last year is because everyone was going what the hell are they going to do? And so they had to kind of tell everyone. So we'll find out, I reckon probably sometime in April or maybe early May,

kind of when the date is and what the format is going to be. Yeah, and I think you're right. I think the most important thing is for them to give people time to anticipate and to mark their calendar because they know their developers are going to be consuming that kind of information so i think it's helpful for their developers

and we are also expecting a event of some description i want to ask you actually do you think that they will have an event or just release products by press release i don't know i mean this is i think going back to what i said about how wwdc and uh and i should this is why people call it wwdc is because it's easier to say and i always but i don't want to call it that i don't want to call it that mike uh the world i can't developer conference you could get away with it i can't get away with it wwdc the worldwide developer conference which by way, is annoying because worldwide is one word. So it's really WDC. There is no second dub in dub dub, people.

Well, the funny thing is, it's actually faster to say Worldwide Developer Conference. It's less syllables than WWDC. Yeah. Worldwide Developer Conference. developer conference it's less syllables than wwdc yeah worldwide developer conference uh and the iphone event are the ones that you gotta have right everything else you don't you don't gotta have right like if let's say apple has apple silicon imax using the m1 chip and let's say apple has air tags and let's say apple has that was really good a new a new ipad pro okay great well yeah they could do a video and say hey we, we got a Mac and an iPad and these tag things. And yay. Are you getting it yet?

It's all one product. It's all. Oh, God. That's right. It's an iPad in the shape of an iMac that is trackable. So if you carry it on your back, people will know where you are because they'll say, who's the dummy carrying an iMac on his back? So they could do it, right?

That's the traditional event thing. I don't know. If I was at Apple, I'd say don't do it. I'd say don't do it. Don't do it. Here's the thing. If you can't tell a cohesive story about how these products are connected. So unless like you could do the iPad Pro and the the imac together and say behold the power of apple

silicon i i get that but you know the traditional model where you kind of like do a store update and then throw out a an accessory product and then throw out a an ipad and throw out a mac it's like unnecessary right you can do and it you can roll them out at different times right so if like you could very easily say why don't we on let me open my calendar here why don't we on april 6th roll out the ipad pro and on april 13th roll out the apple silicon imac and on april 20th roll out air tags or okay we'll just roll them out in a press release on apr 6th, then nobody will notice. Why not? Why not give them their own moment in the sun rather than sticking them together? It allows you, if you're Apple, to brief journalists separately. It's separate lists anyway,

but brief journalists separately on the two products. You get two product stories. You get people talking about your products on two separate weeks. I think there's a lot of value in that. And in terms of the video production, literally, it's separate videos anyway, right? They're producing separate. It means Tim has to record a different intro. That's literally all it means. Everything else is going to be its own little segments that were produced separately anyway. So that that's my counter argument. That would be my argument that they don't need to do an event. They could just do an announcement and brief media and all of that. And like, it doesn't have to resemble a physical event at all. And they've had a year now to reconceptualize what their product rollouts are.

They already were stepping away from having every product have a collected event. I went to that MacBook 16 inch event in, well non-event media briefings in new york city that was my last last time traveling for an apple thing um you know they just they just had people come for a briefing and then they announced the product like they they have been changing the stuff a while now so while it's nice it gets everybody buzzing about what apple's gonna do um i don't know if it is better for them to roll out two products as discreet as an ipad pro and an imac at this at different at the same time unless they're part of the same story unless they they're like oh but you don't

understand they have these things in common now and we want to explain like the ipad but i i think it's a stretch for an ipad pro and an imac to have i will just make the the counter argument that everyone else is making to you over twitter right now which is the apple watch ipad air event of a Twitter right now, which is the Apple Watch iPad Air event. Yep. That they did in September. I mean, they can do it. That's traditional.

I'm just saying, do they want to do that? Is that the right move for them to just roll that stuff together? Maybe it is. It would be... Here's what I'm trying to caution against. Just because Apple's done it before doesn't mean they're going to do it that way again and i think it's worth having a moment to say does it actually make sense or is it more like the momentum that has them drop a couple of different products together maybe they like it maybe they've decided that it's better to load up an event with announcements and get people buzzing about it and having lots of stuff to set one message that is, oh, Apple is just all over the place doing stuff.

Isn't that great? Maybe they have decided that marketing wise, that's actually a better fit than the Rolling Thunder approach where it's like, whoa, it's a new iPad. Oh, no. Now it's a new iMac across weeks. I don't know. i don't know i don't know um i think it comes down to internally their debate about like i assume they have debates about this stuff um the efficacy of a live stream as a product rollout for a product that is not a flagship product because that's really what it's about right is do you want to do this as a live stream even though yes it's all pre-recorded but you put it out live and the whole world tunes in at

10 a.m pacific and watches this product announcement in real time and talks about it on twitter and it's like watching the super bowl it's an event and if i were arguing for that that's what i would argue for i would say well you know you never get the chance to have the entire eye of the world on you to wonder what you're doing and hang on your every word and talk about it on twitter and it's not the same if we just drop a video i you know although i i guess my counter argument would be why don't we just do two of them? We'll do one this week and one next week. But the counter to that, see, I'm arguing with myself here, Mike, would be people are going to get tired of it. You can't do that many of them.

So let's roll them all together. So ultimately, I think it comes down to the value of that live stream and having it happen in the moment, which is as close as you're ever going to get in the COVID era to having people hanging on to the words of an Apple executive on a stage somewhere on a live stream. It's the closest analog to that. And if that works for you, and you think that's more efficacious for your product rollout than grabbing the headlines one week and then grabbing them again the next week and focusing it all on individual products, then that's the call. But I don't think it's a gimme to have it be the traditional way. I think that you could argue that the rolling thunder approach is actually a better one for letting each individual product shine. actually a better one for letting each individual product shine. Well, I think whatever they're going to do, we're going to find out real soon. Because iOS 14.5 has been in beta for a while now, and it includes a lot of stuff that they're surely itching to release, like the mask thing, the app tracking transparency thing,

which I promise we will talk about at some point on this show. It's just something that I want to talk about it with you, but I just haven't found our way in yet. And I still have a theory that it may also include features we haven't seen, like how they included the pointer support. New hardware. So that's what I'm saying. included the pointer support new hardware so that's what i'm saying i think that there is there is clearly i feel like a hold on 14.5 for the new hardware coming right and last week the

most recent base of ios and mac os came out and they both have references to unreleased ipad pro and imac models yeah so i think steam is starting to pick up and they clearly want to get this version of ios out there i believe but it's waiting for either it's waiting for these products basically however they're going to choose to do them it's waiting for the ipad essentially and what is that going to be and i will also say the most important thing is for them to announce and do a live stream of an event so that we can do a draft because if they just drop a product we can't draft there's no drafting of like a press release that just got surprise posted like there's no way to game that we don't get to

talk that and i enjoy our drafts so i mean like we could but we don't want to like because that would require doing like a draft now for anything that could happen over the next six months, which I don't want to do that. It doesn't work, I think. So that is the second part. If they announce an event, whenever they do, we will do another emergency draft episode because the assumption will be that they would stick to the

it's happening next week kind of cadence, which is not what it used to be. The reason we used to be able to fit the drafts in is they would give two weeks notice because people would have to make plans. But now people don't need to move anywhere. Like Apple started last year, just it's, hey, there's an event next Tuesday or whatever. So who knows?

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Let's do some upstream news. Upstream is where we touch on some of the goings on in the streaming media landscape. You have what I hope is the final report of 60 minutes on Paramount+. Yeah, I have a very important update, Mike. Which is just that after all my complaining

about 25, 25, 25, 25, 24, 24, 24, the Paramount+, taking 60 minutes, a show that's been on the air for 50 years and sorting all of its episodes by episode number without including the season to differentiate them has three, four weeks after the launch of Paramount Plus been fixed. And now it displays its seasons. And so I'm getting on 60 Minutes the shocking list 26, 25, 24, 23. Incredible. It actually works. However, I do have a new Paramount Plus complaint.

Okay. Since we're detailing the problems of this streaming app, I'll just put it in there. We talked last week about how the commercial break in the 60 Minutes clips is burned into the video file rather than being part of the ad breaks. So if you're on the no ad version, you still get the, well, more of this story after this. And then there's nothing there, which is dumb. And it was there on CBS All Access too. So that's no good. But there's another issue that they've got that's similar.

We've been watching The Stand, which is a miniseries that they released in December, but we just got to it now. So we're watching it. We have to pause it. And we, in fact, we end up leaving the app and we uh we come back later and the app says oh you're at eight minutes resume right and you think what it's going to do like every other literally every other streaming app ever when you click resume it's going to jump into the show oh no no no no no what paramount plus instead does is play the same video that it plays when you start a show saying that this is a paramount plus or cbs or whatever original and then it jumps to the point in the show where you're watching it before. So they've built this bizarre branding pre-roll thing into the...

I imagine it's a bug. I hope it's a bug. That even when you resume a show, it does the, you know, ego logo play before it drops you back into your show. So imagine if you were watching a Netflix show and you went away and you came back and you said resume and instead of the show resuming, you got the Netflix room thing. It's not good. Don't do that.

So I don't know what's going on over there. But I think at this point, 60 Minutes isn't sorted. Paramount is just introducing bugs specifically for you so you keep giving them conversation on the episodes. I think the truth is that they've spent the last three months

rebranding all their technology and have not been focused on anything but that. I hope that they get better in the future because I actually think that they've got a lot of good content on that service but the Apple TV app is not so hot. Black Widow and Cruella will be coming to Disney Plus and theaters simultaneously.

Cruella in May and Black Widow in July. These will be premier access, so $30 when they hit Disney Plus. Clearly, Disney got tired of waiting for Black Widow. This is like, they should have done this months ago. I don't know if this was the route that they were going to take. I don't know why they didn't do it a long time ago, but they finally saw sense, and they're going to be releasing this movie in multiple ways

for people, whoever they want to get it. I think they were hoping, i think it's hope it's the what is what is ted lasso learn it's the hope that kills you yep um i think and i think i've said it on this show before but i know i've said it in my personal life a lot which is in the last year what we've learned is that if anybody bets the um under on covid bet the over like it's never the under it's never the under and here is another example that we're just like well maybe maybe if we pushed it back a little more push it back a little more and finally they reached the point like black widow it's like a year out now from where they, where they did it.

They keep pushing it back and they've got other movies coming. And so they finally have said, well, we're going to push it back again, two more months. We hope that means that there are more people in movie theaters, but even if there aren't, they aren't,

uh, it'll be on premier access and premier access 30 bucks for black widow or cruella um this is disney busting the the theater model with home viewing for theater prices which is not what warner brothers did with hbo max but um but i think. But I think it's necessary for them to do this. And a lot of these companies are just trying to figure out how do you deal with the fact that theaters aren't back, and even when they're back, they're not going to really be back. So I think it's still a big moment,

because Black Widow widow any marvel franchise the they're designed to make lots of money in movie theaters and so for them to take it and put it and not as a disney plus throw in but to to you know they're going to do the same thing they did with milan but but still but still let people have a way to see it. And I would almost bet you that that's how I'll see it, is that my family and I will gather together and we'll pay $30 and we'll watch Black Widow. It's just kind of funny in a way that in July, there will be more movie theaters open

than any other point in the last six to nine months but they're still going to release it in on disney plus because they have to right because it's not about these places being open even it's what is people want to do right what's the percentage of the population that's comfortable going to a movie theater and i think that will increase over time but i think it's going to take time yeah of course it will but it's just funny to me it's like disney people would have wanted this more six to nine months ago anyway like yeah i'm looking forward to it it's like you know i love every marvel movie so of course and i will do the 30 dollar thing cruella i do want to see but i don't know if that is a movie that i'll pay the money for rather than just waiting for it to come on disney plus but like i do want to see that movie i saw the trailer of it and was really surprised by it i

thought it looked super cool but i might just wait for that one but uh black widow will be paying for and then pixar's next movie luca is going to be coming to disney plus without the extra fee in june like that it was soul i think what we we've learned is no Pixar movie will they make you pay for, right? But everything else, yes, you must pay. I think it's interesting, right? Because I'm sure Disney would like Pixar to make money in theaters. But I think also what's going on here

is Disney recognizing that one of Disney Plus's big advantages over other streaming services is the Disney brand as something that appeals to families. And adding Pixar movies in to Disney Plus just adds to Disney Plus's credibility as a streaming service with lots of content for families with kids and teenagers. with lots of content for for families with kids and teenagers and uh i think in the long run pixar is not going to be a disney plus only studio but this is an example where like pixar there's enough added benefit there um and there are no pixar tv series properly yet there's they're coming like pixar originals like there are marvel tv series so yeah like i just you can see the difference here right that pixar movies for now are sort of like okay we'll just put those on

disney plus and i think i think it's about the appeal of the family um family audience to disney plus as a service i also think it's just been a matter of what pixar had because the pixar movies they've released this way i think there's been three of them right was it outward or out i think was one of them um if that was what it's called onward and then soul and luca these are yeah new ip they're like completely non-tied into other pixar movies if they would have had a new toy story it would have been a premier access movie right you would think so yeah but i think it's just the case of like maybe they think people wouldn't necessarily pay for the 30 for something that they're unsure of and maybe more people will

watch them and it will maybe we'll get more buzz if it can be seen for free i don't know but i would expect that any if they would have had any um of these like movies that were of existence successful properties you would have had to pay for them and we mentioned hbo and warner uh warner is coming back to the theater they've made a deal with cineworld and regal to actually show their 2021 movie slate in places where theaters can open day and date hbo yeah. So if you want to see it in a theater or don't have HBO Max you could go see it in a theater. And then going forward from

2022 onwards they're going to be guaranteeing a 45 day exclusivity window. So this is the case of the cinemas being like hey, don't you go get any ideas. And Warner has said okay set okay yeah this is i think this is part of the fallout of the the complaints about it too where they were like well this is for 21 and not

and we don't know about 22 and and they're saying no no no seriously in 22 although the fact that it's a 45 day exclusivity window like this is the this is where we're headed right is there's still going to be blockbusters they're still going to in theaters, but the window is going to be much more limited when there's a window. And when there's not a window, what it's going to be is like the premier access. I think that's going to be the model is either the movie is in theaters or you can pay $30 to watch it at home or the movie is going to be in theaters for a short period of time and then it will pop up on streaming services like i feel like that's inevitable the shortening of the window or perhaps the replacement of the window with like a combination of theater plus expensive at home do you think that this may possibly suggest that hbo max didn't shoot through the roof with their movie thing that they did no i i don't think that's what it's about i think that my understanding is hbo max has actually done pretty well by having all these premieres in there and will continue to over the course i i think i think it's a combination

of um again it's the it's the hope that the that the theater experience is going to be back in 2022 to the point where they can make the money that they expected to make. And in 21, I think it's the idea that things have maybe gotten a little bit better with vaccines, especially that they're going to get more people in seats later in 2021. So you might as well make that deal so that theaters need things to show and you want your product to be in those theaters um so even if it's on hbo max not everybody has hbo max not everybody wants a tv experience when they want they can go to a movie theater if they're comfortable with it so i i think they're just trying to um gauge the uh the way i mean it's a big corporation they're trying to gauge the way to maximize revenue and they're hoping that they can maximize revenue again in 2022 by putting things in theaters exclusively and we'll we'll see and we'll see what disney does like i'm really fascinated about what disney is going to do with their their stuff that currently is premier access release like black

widow so like the next marvel movie what's that going to be? Are they going to be confident enough in theater for it to just be theater only for a while? Are they going to be not confident in theater so that they do premiere access? Or are they going to split the difference and offer like premiere access three weeks after it's in theaters or something? Something that really is, you know, the next Marvel movie, the next the next Marvel movie. The next long-delayed Marvel movie. I'm really interested to see what Disney does. And meanwhile, James Bond just waits out there in the wings. They're going to end up releasing the next James Bond movie before this one.

It's right. It's just going to stay there forever. Oh, boy. Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple has been working on a, quote, rugged Apple Watch for extreme sports aimed at athletes, hikers, and others who've used the device in more extreme environments. This is a product in consideration for either this year or next year and will be an additional model but would likely feature better impact resistance and

increased protection possibly rubber and or plastic for the casing what do you think of this i love the idea um i i love the idea i think apple should do more more differentiated products right like apple watch is going to be apple watch they're not going to really change the functionality of it but why would you not make more versions available this is a little bit like our iphone conversation the idea that originally there was an iPhone and now Apple has a whole range of iPhones for you to choose from, right? Like having a sport Apple Watch, you know, that is rugged and padded and it's more, you know, robust than the existing Apple Watches. And that'll be a choice based on people wear it based on usage but also based on look and why not why not do that it actually makes a lot of sense and I have to assume that they've

also heard if this product is real that they've also gotten feedback from Apple Watch users who are like yeah well my problem with the Apple Watch is I and then they tell a story about how they destroy their Apple Watch doing something and that's when Apple leans forward and says, hmm, interesting. Maybe there is a market for that. And my guess is that the people who are either destroying their Apple Watches or taking their Apple Watches off because they don't want to destroy them is a teeny tiny percentage. But I think Apple might look at that as like planting, that's like a little seed. And then around that seed is other people who don't do that, but aspire to that level of activity. And then around that is another slice that is, that's the wrong metaphor, but another layer that is people who just like the look and like feeling like they got the big, you know like they put the extra big tires on their truck. And that's how you market a product like that, right? You're not just marketing it to the people who actually need it.

You're marketing it to the people who aspire to it or just like the look of it. And this makes total sense to me that you wouldn't want every Apple Watch to be like that. But the Apple Watch is old now. The Apple Watch is six years old. It's time for product variation like this. And also it also yes it makes more sense than a gold a solid gold apple watch so i like the idea a lot i think it's great the report on bloomberg references the casio casio g-shock which i have one of those steven bought me one for my birthday and i just love the look of that watch i'm not wear it because I'm going on a bicycle

and flying down the side of a mountain. It's just a cool look. If you did fly down the side of a mountain, you'd probably wear it. Yeah, and I'm sure the watch would survive better than me in a situation like that. They'd identify you from your watch. I agree with what you're saying

that more Apple watches to appeal to more aesthetics is a... like that they'd identify you from your watch like i i agree with what you're saying that more apple watches to appeal to more aesthetics is a i think a very important thing for this i think more important than making product variations in their other products like i don't need my imac to look any different other than color right like whatever but watches I mean this is the thing I've said a million times now watches are a style choice and I don't particularly love the look of the Apple Watch I might actually like it more if it leaned into the fact that it's not this sleek thing in my opinion right like yeah in my opinion the apple watch is not a very sleek um understated thing right not to begin with right so i would like it to lean into the fact

that it isn't right and be chunky and bright and all that kind of stuff as a rugged watch and i think they you gotta start somewhere and they started by focusing on the core product and by defining the uh the core product but eventually you have to get beyond that right i do wonder though if they actually need to make a specific watch for this or if it could be an accessory for existing watches like a little case that you snap on but i guess if they made it its own thing they could give it specific features for this type of watch that make it more uh practical for people that were it would not surprise me if they if they made a uh a sports watch and had some custom faces or stuff like that right just to be like be like, aha, and you get this

because we've seen them do that with other product variants on Apple Watch. But yeah, I think it's a great idea. Now that they've got the Core Watch down, it's probably past time, but it's definitely time for them to do variations on it. And I feel like apple of the last few years has really embraced the idea that you provide more options because people don't

always want this you know core model like it used to be sort of with iphone is a perfect example right there was the iphone and there was the ipad um but now we have options and options are good. And I know people will often give Apple a hard time and they're like, Oh, remember back when there was four products in a square and now they've got all these different product variations. And it's so confusing. It's like,

yeah, it's also like, and that can be taken too far where you've got kind of ill-defined products, but like there is a lot to be said for saying we have four iphones and or five or six depending uh and choose the one that has the price and the features that work for you as somebody who is using a little iphone right now like i appreciate that and the apple watch should absolutely do that it's perfectly positioned as you said it's already kind of chunky so you know go with it yeah i think i

like something that john gruber said too you know we were talking about like who this thing could fit with it's like about people that put phones in cases for protection well they might not want to wear an apple watch in case they break it and this would be a more protected apple watch there is i think that there is definitely room for other things. And going back to what you were saying about the Quadrant thing, the reason Apple had to do the Quadrant is because they had loads of products

and loads of those products were really bad. That's why they needed to do the Quadrant, right? Like we have a lot of work to do, so let's simplify the amount of products that we offer. Apple now offer lots of products, but they were all pretty good to excellent. And clearly

defined. I can tell you what the difference is between those four iPhone models and really five or six iPhone models. They are clearly different. And there is some customer confusion that happens. There's no doubt about it. Apple is good at communicating and has all of those retail stores.

And I feel like Apple is pretty good at helping people through the confusion. But the trade-off is, even for a little more customer confusion, is you create a product that's going to take another slice out of the market and convince them that this is the product they want. And for Apple Watch, I think that this is a really good thing for them to try yeah i mean why not right like they've as you said they've had multiple versions of the watch before but they haven't really been clearly defined i feel like you know like if even when you're going back to say when they had the sport model and the apple watch model they had different features like the glass was different and stuff like that as well as some of the body materials um but it was hard to explain like do you want the eye it's like the ion glass or the sapphire glass

it's like i don't know what do i want so you So bringing back the sport model, or I saw some people call it the Explorer model, which I also kind of like. I think either of those will work well. And plus, the Apple Watch now is so much more built to be used in these environments, like even just having the cell coverage, right? Like that if you were out in the wilderness and you got yourself into some trouble, well, you could just call cell coverage, right? Like that if you were out in the wilderness and you got yourself into some trouble,

well, you could just call emergency services, right? Like it really is a very cool product for this and they could add a feature or two that made it make more sense even still as well as just changing the case. And then we could have like something that's really kind of uh purpose built for a certain type of use case and why not so i'm i'm all on board with this i think it's a good idea

um and i could you know and again it's like like you're saying with the iphone one of the things they had to do to capture more people was give them more options and i think just choosing between some like the two different sizes and case materials is not really enough or choose the old one like i don't really think that's necessarily enough to capture a larger slice of the potential apple watch market what you would need to do or what you would want to do is actually offer them purpose-built products for different types of people. Right. And they can do that.

That's the beauty of it, right? Is that the stuff that Apple varies is mostly the software and the insides of the Apple Watch especially, right? Like it's a platform on which you could build a bunch of different watches. In fact, that's what the series, to me, that's what the series nomenclature means

is the fundamental technology. So they could come out with a bunch of variants on the Apple Watch series, whatever, and say, here is, you know, extreme sport and here is diving. And, you know, like they could do that. And for fashion, for utility, like they could do that. And, you know, you want to start small maybe, but I do like the idea that they use this as a platform and, and vary it.

Why not? Why not do that? Especially since in terms of support, it's all the same, right? I feel like that's the concern is always, well, we do too many of these.

We got to support all these different models, but like, if they're all series seven, then you're not, you know, you have to support the different models. I get it. They're,

they're, they're slightly different in terms of their physical shape, but like in terms of what does it work with and all that stuff it's just series seven or whatever and that is uh the same across all of them i think that's uh yeah i'm looking forward to it i think this is a real important kind of generational step for the apple watch to to branch out so i hope they do it this episode of upgrade is brought to you by DoorDash. Dinner? Check. Deodorant? Check. Morning pick-me-up from Duncan? Check. Get everything you need, wherever you need it, whenever you need it, with DoorDash. Because DoorDash connects you

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upgrade a US if you're in Australia. One last time, upgrade2021 for the US, upgrade a US for Australia, 25% off your first order with DoorDash, subject to change, terms apply. Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and RelayFM. So in honor of the 20th anniversary of macOS, I thought we could tackle a little Mac-focused topic today.

And I thought that maybe something we could talk about is one of the most exciting things to happen to the Mac in a very long time, which is Apple Silicon, How we're enjoying it and how we're using our Apple Silicon powered Macs today and then kind of looking ahead for 2021-2022 how we think

it could expand in our own personal use cases. How often are you using an M1 Mac now and which one? So I have a MacBook Air. And, you know, my setup for a long time has been I use my iMac Pro at my desk. And then when I'm in the rest of the house, I use my iPad Pro.

And that's still true, more or less. use my ipad pro and that's still true more or less um there is this little wedge in which the macbook air has has fit itself into my life and it's mostly that's good because it is a little wedge it is a little wedge uh it it uh that's how they get you so it um some of it's for testing of like let's see how this works on apple silicon that still happens but also what i found is it's for testing of like, let's see how this works on Apple Silicon. That still happens. But also what I found is it's the computer I am now using because I want to do something that is way easier to do on the Mac or can only be done on the Mac, and I don't want to sit at my desk. And that could be because I didn't turn, it's the weekend and I didn't turn the heater on and it's cold in my office and I don't want to be cold. Or it's a beautiful day outside and I want to go outside. So that, you know, and again, this is the luxury of having two Macs is that I have the ability to do that. What it hasn't done is replace my iPad for most things.

It just, it hasn't done that because that's why I use my iPad is I prefer my iPad for those things. I'd say the other thing that it's done is made me more confident or enthusiastic about bringing it, um, at versus my old MacBook air. So remember when I mentioned earlier, um, when we went, when I went to, to, um, New York for that Apple product launch, the 16-inch MacBook Pro, I had to bring my MacBook Air with me because we were going to do podcasting. And it was like podcasting on a deadline. Didn't want to mess with it, right? Didn't want to mess with the weird iPad setup I would have to set up. Way easier to just bring the MacBook Air air for one task which is recording that podcast um future versions of that like when i went to the rendall house for a week and and we did a

we did a uh an upgrade from there i just bring the macbook air now because it's it's modern and fast and i trust it and it's not that big and so in a lot of cases it's modern and fast, and I trust it. And it's not that big. And so in a lot of cases, it's sort of like... Because I'm not on airplanes, right? I'm generally driving anywhere I go. And so I don't have any space considerations or bag considerations, and it's just sort of easy to bring this little tiny laptop and know that it's the entire podcast studio in one little space

so it has done that like my devotion it'll be tested when i'm on planes again but for now my devotion to the ipad recording studio where i have to do lots of stuff in order to get the ipad to record and even then it's sort of substandard versus what I can do on the Mac. For now, I've just sort of set that aside and I'm using the MacBook Air for that because it's no longer a, the old MacBook Air, it was old and not updated and not great.

And I took it with more reluctance and this M1 MacBook Air, it's fun and it's an opportunity to play with the m1 macbook air so i don't um i don't i'm not reluctant at all to bring it around were you using like has this replaced a mac that you were using before then i replaced that old macbook air with a new macbook air okay that's that's what i did. I still had the MacBook Air that I brought with me when I left IDG. So it was an i7, but it was a 2014 i7, early 2014. So it was getting up there and back several OS generations. And every time I opened it, I opened it so rarely that it would have a slew of software updates it had to do and all of those things. And I'm using this one a

little more often, so I'm keeping it more up to date. And obviously it's running the latest operating system and all of that. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it's a little different, but what it hasn't done is really wedge itself. I I'll, I'll give one other point, which is when I'm writing about the Mac, it used to be a challenge. If I want to write on my iPad, because I want to change the scenery, I want to go outside, or I want to stand in my kitchen and write on my iPad. The one kind of writing that's not that great on the iPad is when I'm very specifically writing about things that are happening on a Mac because I can't check them. Because I'm not on a Mac, right?

What's the name of that menu? What's the name of that preference? Let's take a screenshot. Can't do any of those things when I'm not on a Mac, right? What's the name of that menu? What's the name of that preference? Let's take a screenshot. Can't do any of those things when I'm not on a Mac. So there are times when I will write on it on the laptop, but they're generally when I'm writing something about the Mac, and I'm like, I should just write

this on the Mac because I need to reference the Mac. And I have not so far gone that I bring up my iPad to write and keep the Mac next to me as a reference point that's silly. It does. But you weren't doing this before. No, before I would either write it and leave a lot of TKs in it saying, you know, what's the name of this

menu? Look that up later. Take a screenshot later. Or I would return to my desk and just write it at my desk even though I didn't want to be there because that was where the Mac was. See, laptops, it's amazing, isn't it? Like, imagine a Mac you can take around with you. But, like, I really love my iPad or my iMac Pro and the big screen. And I love that mostly my Mac stuff happens at my desk in my office and not in the rest of the house because it does provide a little um mental uh separation between work even though i do some work out in the house um it it it helps to have certain stuff where it's just that

lives on the mac and the mac you know the macbook air lives in here too i don't have it floating around in the house most of the time either i mean i've made reference to it on the show recently but my m1 macbook pro is my main computer now and has been since i bought it lots of changes during lockdowns and even before that i was finding myself drifting towards using the Mac as a larger percentage of my computing and then when the MacBook Pro came into my life I was just in love with it immediately it's just so great and it's kind of strange in a way because I'm not sure if I can adequately tell tell you why this Mac makes, I find it such a joy to use. But it's just

really good in every possible way. You know, people say, oh, the battery life's so great. Maybe, but I use mine plugged in all the time. So, because I use my MacBook Pro in clamshell mode, in multiple locations,

either in my home office or in my studio when I can be there. So I never really use it as a laptop. Let me tell you, if I had a big Retina external display, which I don't, I don't own an external display. Well, that's not true.

I have like a 15-inch external display that's like 10 years old, 15 years old. I don't own an external display. Well, that's not true. I have like a 15-inch external display that's like 10 years old, 15 years old. I don't own an external display, a modern Retina external display. If I had one, it's possible I would use my MacBook Air all the time because it's so close in performance to the iMac Pro. It's not quite there, but it's really close. It's close enough. In all the things that I'm doing on my MacBook Pro, it handles it better than my iMac Pro. It's not quite there, but it's really close. In all the things that I'm doing on my MacBook Pro, it handles it better than my iMac Pro.

Really. I'm still editing and recording and all that sort of stuff on my iMac Pro. That's the same as it was before. Because this is where all the gears hooked up to, and it's going to stay that way for a foreseeable future. We'll talk about that in a minute, how that might change.

But really, my MacBook Pro is just my computer now and i really love it it's everything it can handle everything i throw at it and you know i and i'm enjoying using the mac for what the mac is good at you know like everything's, it's all available and I don't, I can multitask more easily. Um, I do, I have things about multitasking on iPadOS that I do still prefer to the Mac just visually. Um, but I'm just, it basically was like, there was a sliding scale going on of my iPad and Mac usage once I started working outside of home more and then this MacBook Pro just kind of tipped it over the edge and maybe we'll talk about this in a minute but I don't know if it could change again like I'm not so much like oh working from the iPad that's so stupid? Like I'm not in that mode.

Like I don't feel that way. It's just this is where I am right now. And there could be something in an iPad Pro or iPadOS that could completely change this again. But just for my current working setups, a Mac fits in it really nicely. And it just so happened that like probably my favorite Mac that I've ever used came out right like the the M1 MacBook Pro is as good if not better than any Mac that I've

ever used not just from a capability perspective but from my own kind of attachment to it you know it really does remind me of the good 11 inch macbook air in how i feel about it where a lot of the time i can't even couldn't have even explained what it was that i loved about that computer it was just really great and fun to use so looking ahead okay 2021 2022 i'm keen to know from you what device changes do you think you're going to go through? What are you looking to replace?

This iMac Pro, it's good and I love it, but there's going to be a time, probably later this year, where Apple is going to release a high-end iMac with Apple Silicon

and it's not going to be an M1. And it's going to be hard for me to say no to that. Because it's likely that something's going to come along this year that is going to smoke this computer. Like, just obliterate it. And it's coming up four years old three plus years old now which you know it's gonna it's got years of life left in it honestly but for the stuff i do where i'm encoding audio and video and stuff like that and also for being you know for using apple silicon

you know i'm going to assume that an m2 or whatever m1x whatever it is the next chip is going to keeping in mind that this is the low-end original because the imac pro ended up with like 8 and 10 and 12 and like lots of different core counts this is the $5,000 eight core cheapest iMac Pro. So it's already slower than that MacBook Air in some measures. In other measures, it's not. And that's because it is an eight core Xeon and it's got a lot of capabilities. But there are also things that Apple has done in the operating system and in the M1 chip where certain tasks, including video encoding and stuff, there's secret special pathways that the Apple Silicon Macs get to do.

And the Xeon doesn't even have some of the secret special pathways that Intel builds in for encoding, right? Because it's not a consumer chip, it's a pro chip, and so it's different. So a lot of the stuff I work on, it is faster, but some of the stuff I do, it's not a consumer chip. It's a pro chip, and so it's different. So a lot of the stuff I work on, it is faster, but some of the stuff I do, it's slower than the Air. So I fully anticipate that the next iMac that comes out is going to destroy it in terms of speed because already the last high-end Intel iMacs destroy it in terms of speed. So I assume that that is going to be the thing that pulls me over

and has me replace my iMac Pro. I am open to the possibility of Apple, if Apple releases a standalone Retina display, buying something else. Well, could that something else be, though? Well, I mean, a standalone retina display for one right but what does that plug into and that well and that's the question right like like there are the rumors about like the little mac pro um but also there are you know the even you know a mac mini or uh or the macbook air like there's possibilities there there's some possibilities there that would complicate things but right now my my gut feeling

is uh imac but you know there are there are. If there was a standalone Retina display, I can maybe get a Mac Mini and use that. And then when there's a fancier standalone Mac device later on, I could roll that Mac Mini in as my new server. I have options, but the one I'm watching as somebody who's using a big iMac is the big iMac. Probably the rumored M1 iMac is probably not going to be enough for me because I'm used to the big iMac now. But I'm watching it closely. I don't think my iMac Pro is going to survive 2021

as my primary Mac. It'll get handed down or sold or donated or something, but I don't think it's going to make it. I don't think it's going to be hovering over my desk on New Year's Eve. Yeah, I think we're in a similar boat. I fully expect that I will have made a purchasing decision, at least by the end of 2021,

for what is my podcast production machine you know the beefiest machine in my lineup and like you I don't know what it's going to be I'm certain it's not the first IMAX

that's shown off yeah right I expect that this will be a product announced in the summer, whether it goes on sale in the summer or not. I mean, because really, my idea will be that Apple announce the most powerful iMacs and the Mac Pro at the same time, so I can make the decision with all of the information because I might want

the little Mac Pro just because I would think it would be really cool if it's what I want it to be but if they release a high-end iMac like with a new chip generation in it, more powerful, that kind of stuff,

I think it would be really hard for me to resist it. Because I love the iMac. I love everything the iMac's about. I believe the iMac's going to go through a radical design change, which is going to make it desirable. And if they have some version of it that is the spiritual successor to the imac pro because i don't think there will be another imac pro even in name right it would just be imac and

just the top of the line imac will be really powerful um or you will be able to spec it to be very powerful right with whatever i don't know know what it is you would change, but, you know. That's going to be a hard thing to resist, because I know what the M1 can do, and the M1 gets scarily close in

output, but the thing is, though, my M1, it's nicer to use Logic. Logic is more responsive in use on my M1 MacBook Pro than it is on my iMac Pro. But the reason I go with the iMac Pro is because the processing of things is faster. And so I can live with the kind of jitteriness of Logic,

but it frustrates me when I'm waiting around for things to happen. And so I stick with using the iMac Pro for this. But I know that any iMac is going to be a step up in some ways than my current iMac is. So whatever the most powerful one is going to be, that's going to be really tempting. But I'm just not sure if that's going to be the machine that I will most want

in the Mac lineup to replace this one. It depends on what Apple's plans are. I'm also really interested about what the next Mac Pro's could look like. Like the replacement for the 13. I'm very intrigued about that one. Yeah, there's a lot it's just it feels like for anybody like us who is probably not willing to commit to having their entire mac workflow today go to an m1 we're in that state where we're just waiting for the next thing that will do it and it's close right like again it's close if i had a uh display comparable to my ipad or my iMac pro that i could use

with my macbook air i might do it but um if they can increase the performance and then a new iMac and all those things, then it gets really interesting. So I'm hoping too. I'm hoping that this is the year. I'm hoping that I don't get to the end of the year and I'm like, none of this stuff is good enough. I need to wait another year.

I'd really rather not. It feels like that would be a surprise if that was the case, right? I feel like I'd be surprised. But we will wait and see. I think one of the reasons I am so into the Mac right now is because this is where all the excitement

is for me. Just like in talking about this stuff, looking at this stuff, following it as a fan as much as as a person who needs to talk about it it really does feel like the most exciting prospects and the most exciting potential products that apple will release over the next couple of years could well be max and i find that excitement hard to ignore right so i am naturally gravitating towards these products

more than some of the other stuff they're doing. I really want the new iPad Pros to blow me away because I love the iPad Pro and have loved it since it started and I use it all the time. But I gotta be honest, what's been rumored, it's not that interesting.

No, for me, it has to be an accessory now because the rumors are are like okay this looks really good but i'm not like mega into this yeah whereas if they come out and they say oh new ipad pro and it's got thunderbolt and it supports external displays using this new software update and here's an external display that we, that we sell now that also works with your M one max. Now I'm excited. Right. Then I would be excited.

And then there would be trouble, um, in the incomparable incorporated bank account. There would be trouble then. But, uh, you know, failing that it's going to be like,

yay, another year, another kind of minor iPad. Like, and again, I don't want to, I'm not saying the iPad pro is bad cause it's going to be like yay another year another kind of minor ipad like and again i don't want to i'm not saying the ipad pro is bad because it's not in fact the problem is that the ipad pro from 2018 was so good fantastic that it's still so good yep and the 2020 update kind of didn't do anything and even apple admits it because apple made the magic keyboard which was the real interesting product work with the old ones because it was pretty much just as good and the rumors about this one are like the big one will have a nicer screen like again

it's not bad stuff and it's a great great product but it's also the fact that the 2018 model was so far ahead and they're not seemingly ready to take it another leap forward i think in part perhaps because they've been they were so far ahead that they could be like that's good for a while let's focus on something else and the job of apple is not to entertain me with ipad pro updates right like that's not ultimately and this is where i think some people get angry at apple for no good reason is their job is not for us to have things to talk about that are interesting. Like their job is to make good products and sell them. And the iPad Pro 2018 was so good that they can kind of coast on it for a while.

They really can. But on the Mac side, they seem to have focused a lot of attention on turning over that entire product line. And so, yeah, that is really exciting to think about and talk about. When it comes to the iPad Pro, though, I have, or the iPad in general, I have very high hopes for WWDC. Like, not hopes, expectations for a big iPadOS release this year. But that is a story for another day, I think.

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today's show. The first comes from Fabrice who asks, I tried to use the HomePod mini as my Mac speaker, but found the AirPlay two second delay very annoying and making it unusable for video conferencing. Is there a way around this? I looked into this. I don't think there is. And I find it really annoying. I find this really annoying, Jason. This is it. This is the AirPlay delay is not great, and it's made for playback of cached media or via sync. And it's, yeah, this is the reason or one of the reasons why I'm still using an iPod Hi-Fi with an aux-in plug from my headphone jack on my iPod or my Mac Pro. My iMac Pro, sorry. What am I doing? On my iMac Pro is there there's no delay and I use it

for everything it's better right and and the all of the airplay stuff you know they they try to work around it but if you want instantaneous it doesn't do it it just doesn't do it I just don't understand why the company that can give me the AirPods experience can't also give me the same experience with the HomePod Mini. Because I've been using the HomePod Mini when I'm at the studio.

I have one of those at the studio. And when I'm at the studio I'll be using it as my speaker for my MacBook Pro. Just like I'm watching videos or whatever. And it's just really nice because it's a nice little speaker for that. But I don't understand why they can't just do whatever connection they're using

via Bluetooth plus the secret source for the HomePod when it's connected to a Mac. It just feels like that makes much more sense because with AirPods, I mean mean it's all just connecting to the same product and it's doing

doing it fine like I know that they want to have it be AirPlay or whatever and that's cool but like there's so much space inside of that little thing just throw a Bluetooth chip in there I don't know like it's just surprising to me that it really

kind of makes it a crummy experience because like if you're watching video and you pause it the audio keeps playing and then you know it's like it's like a night it's a little bit of a nightmare to try and use them so it almost feels like you shouldn't be able to use them with a Mac. Like set it as your Mac output. Or that they should have a low latency mode or they should have some sort of a mode where certain stuff comes through the Mac speaker if you want instead because it's low latency.

Like there are other things they could do, but yeah, it's definitely a hole. And the Mac support of AirPlay and HomePods has never been very good. And it's still not. It's disappointing. Sam asks, if a person is deciding between the 11-inch

and 12.9-inch iPad Pro, what are the key factors and usage patterns you recommend considering? I'm thinking about replacing my 10.5 inch ipad pro at some point and that larger screen is compelling but will i lose the holdability so i want to make my pitch here for why i think the 11 inch ipad pro is the better ipad pro for most people so for me in my usage i think that the larger iPad Pro, its main focus is multiple apps at once.

Like that's its largest benefit. Because if when you put apps side by side with the bigger iPad, you get like two full app experiences. So like if you want to be using multitasking and all that kind of stuff, and if you are working on an iPad Pro, you want to be using multitasking and all that kind of stuff. And if you are working on an iPad Pro, you want to be using multitasking. It's amazing for that. The keyboards are full size. So use the Magic Keyboard or Smart Keyboard. They are full size keyboards. If you're writing a bunch on it, it's great for that. The larger iPad Pro, I think it's primary as a work device.

If you want to replace your laptop with an iPad, this is what you should go for. Same for artists as well. It's a bigger canvas, so you'll benefit from that. The larger iPad, though, I think it is bigger, it is less holdable, it is heavier. I think if you are using an iPad primarily for, like, this is my secondary device, this is a device where I maybe watch

some videos, I read some books I read some comics, that kind of stuff, I think that the smaller iPad Pro is best for that if like you can still work from the smaller one and I have and do when I used to travel a lot that's the one I would take, I would take the smaller one

because it is easier to move around and you can do it all. The keyboards are perfectly fine, but I was getting the smaller one in those instances for additional portability. I almost kind of felt for me that the larger iPad

was kind of a home device because of its size. But I think that the larger one is best for working. The smaller one is best if you want to also work on your iPad Pro, not replace your laptop with it. That's my kind of the way that I come down with it too. Yeah, and I mean, I think you're reasonable. I think we've agreed on this podcast that the 11-inch iPad Pro is the better choice for most people.

That said, I don't agree that the larger one is about working with multiple apps at once. I don't multitask that often, and when I do, it's nice to have that space. But I do think typing on it on the larger one that software keyboard is way better yeah and i think you know having apps have more space in general is really nice i get used to the size of the large ipad i am a surprised so um lauren has the smaller ipad pro and i pick it up and i think that i've picked up a little toy ipad and um so what i'm saying is you get used to it um everybody's different everybody's tolerance for this is different i think you can use a 12.9 on its own and then you

get used to it and you use it and you know have had both models, so you go back and forth. And so the differences are very clear to you, which gives you a unique opportunity to talk about their differences. But I will say, as somebody who committed to the 12.9-inch iPad Pro, I don't think about it being large. I don't think about it being heavy. It is what it is, and I love it. about it being heavy. I, it is what it is and I, and I love it. So, um, I would say you need to ideally hold it in your hands and make a judgment about it, but it's great. Um,

and one of the reasons I bought it is for things like watching video and reading comics and things like that, where you've got a bigger screen, it's that much nicer to have the bigger screen. where you've got a bigger screen, it's that much nicer to have the bigger screen. But I will admit that the smaller one is probably going to be more popular with more people, and that's fine, because you really need to see the benefit in having that larger screen in order to pay more money and carry around a larger object everywhere you go. And even I am aware of its size in the sense that when there are rumors about larger iPads, my immediate response is, Oh no,

please. No. Like I really liked it when the 12.9 inch iPad pro got a little bit smaller by shrinking the bezels rather than making the screen bigger. That was really nice. I don't need my iPad to get any bigger than it is, but I do like the larger iPad. And Todd asks, if Apple brings back MagSafe,

this is for the Macs, obviously, do you think it will be a cable with USB-C on the other end, or will they go back to having an integrated power brick? Well, the integrated power brick was terrible because it meant you couldn't use MagSafe with anything but Apple's brick, which then plugged into a wall. And also meant that you would have to take multiple power bricks if you were going somewhere.

So I say no. I think we're past that i don't think apple's gonna hardwire anything into a brick anymore i think we're in we live in a world where there are little blocks with usbc connectors in them and that's what it's gonna be so i say no and in fact i have a theory which is that Apple may actually try to put data on it so that in addition to plugging it into a power brick for charging, you could plug it in to, say, a monitor or a hub and it would pass through data as well. So you use one cable for power and data. Wouldn't that be nice? But even failing that, even if it's just power, I feel like they're going to put it on USB-C because they want all their power bricks to use USB-C.

If you would like to send in a question to help us close the show and to get the answers that you're looking for, just send out a tweet with the hashtag AskUpgrade or use question mark AskUpgrade in the RelayFM members Discord, which you can get access to. If you support this show, go to GetUpgradePlus members discord which you can get access to if you support this show go to get upgrade plus.com and you can sign up you when you do you will get not only access to lots of wonderful benefits from relay fm for being a member but if you sign up at get upgrade plus.com you will also get longer ad-free versions of every single episode of Upgrade. And we talk about lots of wonderful things. On today's Upgrade Plus segment,

we're going to be talking about some suspected working from home changes and how that's going to be in the post-pandemic world. Talk a little bit more about what we think Apple might do. So go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up and you will get those awesome benefits for you. And thank you, by the way, if you have. We really, really appreciate your support. I would also like to thank Uni, DoorDash, and Rogamiba for their support of this show. And before we go,

let me tell you about one other show here at RelayFM, Clockwise, where hosts Dan Morin and Micah Sargent invite two guests every week from a diverse pool of tech professionals and cover four tech topics in 30 minutes. Go to relay.fm slash clockwise or search for clockwise wherever you get your podcasts. And I have heard through the whispers

in the wind that host emeritus Jason Snow is returning to Clockwise this week. Yes, I'm guest hosting Clockwise this week, Mike. Now, those were those exact wins that I was talking about. That was a dramatic recreation of them. If you'd like to find Jason online, you can find him at sixcolors.com,

theincomparable.com, and Jason hosts many shows here at RelayFM, as I do too. You can go to relay.fM slash shows to find those. Jason is at Jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L. I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll be back next time. Maybe next Monday.

Maybe before. Who knows? You'll find out if you stay subscribed to the show. Thanks for listening. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Watch what you say, Mike. And keep upgrading the show thanks for listening until then say goodbye justin snow watch what you say mike and keep upgrading the show that's not how it goes ah missed it again