Upgrade - 372: A Wrestling Match With App Icons

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

iOS 15 is here and Myke and Jason share their opinions about new features! Also we've got a lot of Apple Event follow-up, and now that Ted Lasso has won eight Emmy Awards, it's time to back the truck full of money up to Jason Sudeikis's house.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 372 today's show is brought to you by squarespace door dash and linkedin jobs my name is mike hurley i'm joined by jason snell mike how have we done 372 of these how is that possible just like the way we're doing it now. One week at a time? Sometimes two in a week if Apple surprises us. But always one. Sometimes two. Always one at a time. That's what Ted Lasso would tell you. You've got to take them one at a time.

Just one step at a time. I have a Hashtag Snell Talk question for you. It comes from Jason. Not you. Who asks, What may I have in my possession first? An Apple Watch Series 7 or a Playdate? Well, it depends on your Playdate number, I suppose. It does depend on the Playdate number. It does.

But let's assume for the sake of this conversation that Jason was in the first batch of Playdates. Well, and I mean, I have a Playdate coming and I'm going to buy an Apple Watch Series 7. So this could be me. I'm going to buy an Apple Watch Series 7. So this could be me. I'm going to say the Apple Watch, mostly because Apple has experience shipping products to customers

and Panic doesn't. So I love Panic and I'm looking forward to the play date. But if I had to choose between Apple's supply chain and Panic's, I'm going to choose Apple's. I would say Apple too because like panic is like by the end of the year and apple says fall yeah so if we're if we're assuming that they both can

do what they say they're gonna do i would still say that apple seems like the easier bet there yeah so but still i'm looking forward to both both Both, yeah. I'm going to get both. I've made a decision, by the way, for the Apple watch. Yes. Oh, okay. Gold stainless steel. Mm-hmm. I feel like you were leaning that way even last week when we talked. And gold Milanese.

Yeah? Yeah. I know you like that. People have been sending me pictures of their gold and gold, and it looks real good. Yeah, that's right. And then you put on the white coat. What else is your outfit that goes with that? There's a whole outfit.

Federica came up with an outfit. I don't remember what it was, but it was mostly white and a flowery shirt, I think. A flowery shirt. Yeah. That's right. But that's where I'm going to go. I'm going to go all gold, I think. Okay.

But with maybe a blue sport loop too. I think I'll look really good with the gold. And I'm leaning toward black titanium. Treat yourself, Jason Snell. A little bit, maybe so. If you'd like to send in a hashtag Snell Talk question to help us open the show, just send out a tweet with the

hashtag Snell Talk or use question mark Snell Talk in the RelayFM members discord. I'd like to give everybody an update on our St. Jude campaign. We just completed the third annual podcast-a-thon last Friday. It was a Friday. Thank you. I'm a little bit out of sorts today, I'll say that. I'm still kind of getting back to life after having completed the podcast.

I'm bringing Mega Studio back up to a working order. And now we're here on Monday. I'll kind of work through the weekend. But it was an incredible success with the podcast. We raised, I think, over $110,000 during the podcast itself. And we have now passed as a community over $500,000. That is half of a million dollars raised this year alone, which is absolutely unbelievable. I can amount that I could have only jumped about because September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. So we are working to support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

in finding cures and saving children. For almost 60 years, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital has been on the front lines of research care and treatment of childhood cancer. Treatments that are invented at St. Jude have helped push the overall childhood cancer survival rate from 20% to more than 80% since opening. And St. Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer, but they need our support. So, go to stjude.org slash relay and you can donate today. If you make a single gift of $100 or more, you'll receive an exclusive sticker of thanks pack at the end of

the campaign. And don't forget if your company matches donations, please send an email to steven at relay.fm and we can put those into the campaign too. And then your money is doubled by your employer. Go to stjude.org slash relay to support St. Jude. Let's cure childhood cancer together. And if you do want to catch up with the podcast-a-thon, if you haven't seen it, it's uploaded to YouTube now, so you can go and watch it in all of its glory.

We also have an audio-only version in a feed that we have called the Departures feed. Godspeed to you if you decide to listen to it in audio only i don't know what that experience would be like i i think it's better for video but hey yeah you do you oh and we've also got a bunch of other stuff uh still coming throughout the rest of the month we have other streams lots of additional content uh jason put together a uh balderdash for the show itself but there's also a second balderdash which is premiering on youtube on the relay of him youtube channel today as we record this by the time the episode's out it will be available for you to just go and watch it your just watch a whole other episode of my my two episode relay fm balderdash game show with six additional relay fm hosts

yep so it it was a there's a fun one the one in the in the um podcastathon was a fun and the one that uh will be posting or has posted uh is also really good and i'm hoping that i will pop that in the departures feed at some point too so if if you don't want to watch, but you are open to listening, there'll be an audio version of that too. Yeah, it was a truly incredible day. Thank you so much if you tuned in for any of it. We were blown away by just how many people had tuned in, but also all the money we raised.

And now sitting here, you know, on September 20th, and I think right now we've just passed five, we're about to hit $511,000. It's just an absolutely unbelievable amount of money and just a level of support that we currently have ever dreamed of. So thank you so much. So this is a follow-up.

So we had said a couple of weeks ago that we would on this episode talk about the ramifications of the Epic and Apple trial, and if and how Apple would be changing their in-app purchase rules because of the trial. We can't talk about it right now because it's still too complicated. Lots and lots of opinions on the internet right now as to what the ruling means. Ultimately, I think I've come down on the line of, I think it's best to just wait now because it seems like at the moment there is too much interpretation that can be made on the ruling that Judge Gonzalez-Rogers put down. So I think we actually need to wait now to see I think within the next few weeks, because there's

a time window on this where Apple have to do something or not, and then we can see what happens after that period. Yeah, it's there's a lot going on there, but I think we can there's a lot of other stuff going on, so we can push that off for now. It's just too difficult.

Like, basically, it's either it means everything or it means nothing and kind of all the way in between. Somewhere in between. Right. Yeah. Last night, Ted Lasso picked up a bunch of Emmys. It was obvious that it was going to happen. They won Outstanding Comedy Series. Lead Actor in a Comedy went to Jason Sudeikis.

Supporting Actor went to Brett Goldstein. Supporting Actress went to jason sudeikis supporting actor went to brett goldstein supporting actress went to hannah waddingham and they also won awards for sound mixing editing and casting i think the only award they didn't win or at least the only major awards they didn't win was writing they didn't win writing and directing in a comedy both of which went to hacks on hbo max which is by the way also a fantastic show and if people haven't tried it they should give it a go uh hacks is great as well um and uh so i was happy to see hacks win a few emmys because it also won uh best actress in a comedy so uh that that's a show worth watching if you've got hbo max um and i'm very happy that it won some awards because now people more people have heard of it and it would be harder for it to,

to be canceled. And it already got picked up for a second season, but I love that show too. So they didn't win all the Emmys, but they, Ted Lasso won an awful lot, which was expected. I think the Hacks wins were surprising and I'm happy for them for those.

Also that, that seems to be a place where it was easy for them to split the nominees because Ted Lasso got like nominated for half of the uh nominations in those categories and and they did in these other categories too in the supporting but they i i felt like hannah waddingham and brett goldstein were so clearly the right choices that they were able to overcome the other ted lasso uh people in their category in order to win those but yeah so apple had within like an hour of the emmys all the banners on apple tv were you know winner of eight emmy awards so good to whoever was up on saturday on sunday night uh updating all of their graphics on uh on apple tv

um it was something that i found kind of funny like in apple's press release uh they say i just love this line it's hilarious to me apple tv plus becomes first streaming service in history to land top program award in its second year of eligibility like that but like if you actually read that right first in history second year possible in history is not that big if the history is two years right well it means that well the history is the history of streaming services right yeah in the history of stream it took netflix longer and amazon longer to win a major award like this but also yes it is silly it's they're trying to find a superlative i get it um you know but it's it's a big deal i mean like what two years ago uh weren't people making carpool karaoke and um true you know other eddie eddie q eddie q thanked on stage by the way along with uh

along with t-dog tim cook by bill by bill lawrence is it zach and and jamie zach and jamie were in there yeah it was all the people we've been talking about. But I just, you know, when all those people were making jokes about the dumb Apple music video stuff and carpool karaoke that they'd been doing. And we said, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. This is not that. These are different people doing something different. Well, here we are two years later and they won. One of their shows won eight Emmys. Now, who knew?

I mean, who knew it would be Ted Lasso? The thing is, one eight Emmys. Now, uh, who knew, I mean, who knew it would be Ted Lasso. The thing is you put your, you place your bets. I mean, I'm sure their big bet was the morning show and it got some awards, but, uh, what you do is you program your network and you,

the hits will emerge and the critical darlings will emerge. And that's how you have to do it. You can't, uh, I actually wonder about this for Amazon where they're trying to replicate game of Thrones will emerge. And that's how you have to do it. You can't, I actually wonder about this for Amazon where they're trying to replicate Game of Thrones essentially. And like, I'm not sure you can do that.

I think you gotta have a strategy where you throw off a bunch of shows and some of them are gonna flop and some of them are gonna be hits. And you just, you gotta, you can't control what happens. So Apple, I'm sure was taken by surprise, but now they're firmly on board the ted

lasso train in fact um we should mention the hollywood reporter story about season three because it's got some interesting things about renegotiating the salaries of the writers and the cast to give them more money which i think interesting. Like they didn't have to do that, but it's one of those things where you want to be gracious to your creative team for, you know, right. Like they placed the bet on Ted Lasso not thinking it would be successful, but it's been so successful that Apple and Warners have gone back to them and sweetened their deals,

which is interesting. And also i think raises the question like and the hollywood reporter article does a good job of raising this question without answering it because there is no answer right now right but it's basically you know surely they're not going to stop at three seasons given how successful it's been and there's kind of a lot of shrugging going on of like you know the impression i get is that apple and warner are um happy to back up the truck of money to jason sudekis's house but it's unclear if jason sudekis is willing to have them open up the back of that truck so it's all still kind of floating out there. I still think it's going to go past three seasons.

Yeah. I think the big issue is that he's got young kids and they shoot in England. So I think the question is, do they recalibrate what they think the storyline might be and have it continue? Does Ted come back to the U.S.? Do they split the show where Ted comes back to the u.s and the character other characters stay in england and there are kind of two shows at that point like i don't know what they do they just change the way they film it there are ways around every problem right it's true they could film they could film interiors in the u.s in in new york or somewhere

like that i think his kids are in new york I think, I think that's where he lives. They could, they could shoot at interiors in New York and shoot exteriors and in England and do it that way. If they wanted to, like they've got right. That's the question is like, if he says absolutely no,

then it's going to be absolutely no, but there's so much money and prestige involved now. And, you know, it's art and commerce. Look, this is all the stuff we talk know, it's art and commerce. Look, this is all the stuff we talk about. It's art and commerce. Both of those things exist.

And usually commerce wins because at the end of the day, all of those writers and actors have house payments and, you know, and families to support. And there is the offer of an avalanche of money.

And even if Jason Sudeikis, I would say, even if Jason Sudeikis is really reluctant to keep going because he's got his vision for where the story goes and he's got young kids in the United States, it's not just a personal decision, right? It's a decision that has ramifications for everyone who makes the show. And if he says no,

he's taking the money out of their hands as well. And that's a hard decision to make. And if we put money aside for a minute, like it is a massive factor, right? This is how these people make a living. This is Jason Sudeikis' biggest success. And he may come to realize, hey, you know what?

I like making this show and everyone loves it and and it's going really well and let's make some more let's make some more money while the sun is shining because you never know what will happen after but it's not again like it's not even just the money it's just like let's continue making this show that is so critically acclaimed yeah and that we we all generally seem to like each other yeah i've I've gone to his Wikipedia page at the moment and looked at his awards and nominations. And the entire box, it's like two-thirds of the box is Ted Lasso. Oh, of course. This is his big thing.

This is his, like, Jason Sudeikis will be remembered for being Ted Lasso now. That's how it would appear to be. So maybe you want to find a way to make it work. I don't know. We'll find out. I like that it is, that report is all about, and I do recommend it,

the Hollywood Reporter story. It's a great article. It is all about like, how do you, now that it's a hit, like you go back and recompensate everybody. You give everybody more money. You give Brett Goldstein and Hannah Wanningham

a lot more money because they just won Emmy Awards. You give the writers more money. Like everybody's going to get more money. You give Brett Goldstein and Hannah Wanningham a lot more money because they just won Emmy Awards. You give the writers more money. Everybody's going to get more money. And we mentioned the other week that there also is this thing where Apple is trying to buy out some of the linear TV rights because they don't want Ted Lasso running on cable TV. They want it to be Apple TV exclusive. What does that cost? All of this stuff is going on now, and it's really interesting because it's this unexpected success and now they have to have to figure out where they go next season three is going to have 12 episodes they confirmed that during the amys last night right like like season

two except unlike season two they're going to plan for 12 episodes because this past weekend's episode actually people were saying if you have if you have seen it it's a very off format episode. It is unlike a normal episode of Ted Lasso. And I actually saw somebody say, I didn't like it because I don't like that they took an episode out of the story in order to tell this other thing. And I had to say, they didn't take an episode out of the story. This is the other standalone episode that they wrote after they broke the season with 10 episodes and then apple came to them and said can you make two more episodes and they're like but we already okay uh again not turning down the money but instead of breaking up their 10 episode plan what they

did is they inserted two standalone episodes the christmas special and the one that aired this week next season they will plan for 12 episodes which is better just real quick as well uh morning show started again no spoilers but i already enjoyed the first episode i'm excited to see where the season goes have you seen it yet no we are um we are watching some other stuff right now i think we just watched the first three episodes of why the last man which is uh a lot of fun the comic book that i really liked so i'm enjoying that and uh but we got it we got it ready to go it was one of those things where we're like it's nine o'clock and we can do an hour-long tv show and do we really want to kick off the morning show and it was like let's

let it let's let it percolate let's we'll come back yes i i tend to go all over that but i was excited to see it it's good yeah i think uh i mean i'm really intrigued to see where the season goes good and foundation premieres on friday and i'm really intrigued to see where the season goes. And Foundation premieres on Friday and I'm looking forward to that. Remind me, they're dropping two episodes of that, right? I don't know. At the beginning of the Apple event last

week, it was interesting to see that they've got their fall rollout schedule. I was saying to Lauren last night as we were looking at all the different stuff that we can watch, it's like, oh, all the shows are back now right like it's only been in this last week or two where i've realized oh everything that was put into covid you know production earlier this year is all starting to roll out so we had that moment that was more of a lull and right now like everything is dropping.

Cause like sex education dropped on Friday on Netflix, which is a show I really like. I haven't watched that yet. Like everything is dropping now. All the shows are, are, are coming out now. So that's great,

but it's overwhelming. It is too, by the way, foundation. It starts with two episodes of foundation. And then, and then they've got another release the following week and another release the following week and another release. Like it keeps going. It's, there's a lot of, a lot of content coming of Foundation. And then they've got another release the following week and another release the following week and another release.

It keeps going. There's a lot of content coming out now. It's kind of overwhelming. But good stuff. Good stuff. And congratulations to Ted Lasso because I love that show and I'm glad it's done so well. And it is funny to see

Apple TV Plus, of all things, having these getting up on stage and saying thanks to Apple. Or as Bill Lawrence said, thanks to Zach and Jamie, Eddie and T-Dog. That's my name for Tim Cook. I'm sure at 4 a.m. when Tim Cook's alarm went off, he awoke to happy news about Ted Lasso and puzzlement about people calling him t-dog you can skip 15 seconds i'm gonna spoil the joke from uh uh morning show okay how do i skip 15 seconds you can't hear we're gonna hear it uba plus is a thing that's oh yay fantastic i love it i screamed i was so excited it was an io like i don't tip the cap to you sir yes good stuff this episode is brought to you by linkedin jobs today many small business owners they're busier than ever and time spent searching for and interviewing the wrong candidates

for a job could be time better spent growing the business that you're running. And that's why LinkedIn Jobs has made it easier to get the candidates worth interviewing faster and it's free. I have had the opportunity in my life to hire in a few different roles with my own business and when I worked for larger companies. It is a daunting task as somebody who is hiring someone, like even knowing where to start. It's so difficult. And similarly, on the other end, knowing where to send your application or how to go about it is also a daunting task. And really, the important thing about hiring is that you get the right person in the right place. And having the ability to have this through the massive LinkedIn platform,

that is a big tick in the right box to helping you find that right person. Because you can create a free job post in minutes on LinkedIn Jobs to reach your network and beyond to the world's largest professional network of over 770 million people. So you can focus on candidates with the skills and experience that you need and use screening questions to help get your role in

front of only the most qualified people for your role. Then you can use the simple tools that LinkedIn have created with LinkedIn Jobs to quickly filter and prioritize who you'd like to interview and hire. So you have a large pool of people that you can get from, but then all of the tools that you're going to need to find that perfect person. LinkedIn Jobs helps you find the candidates worth interviewing faster. Did you know every week nearly 40 million job seekers visit LinkedIn? Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash upgrade. That's linkedin.com slash upgrade to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Our thanks to LinkedIn Jobs for their support of this show and RelayFM. All right, so let's talk about some or reflect a little bit more on last week on the Apple event.

Okay. Now that the dust has settled, how do you feel about the event? I've seen a lot of people online saying it was disappointing. It was boring. It's an S year. What do you think? saying it was disappointing, it was boring, it's an S year. What do you think?

You know, everybody is always disappointed by Apple events unless they have some mind-blowing product. And I think that this is incremental. We talked about it a little last time. Incremental is what it is. It is an S year. That's true, essentially. It is a quieter iPhone cycle. It's a quieter Apple Watch cycle.

The truth is most people don't buy the same thing every year. And what matters is that Apple pushes everything forward. And then this is their PR push. And then everybody in the holiday quarter who's got a two or three or four-year year old iPhone or Apple Watch, those people update. It's part of the cycle. It's fine. Not every year is going to be. Like last year was the we changed how this looks and, you know, we gave it this whole new approach that we're doing to the iPhone. Like, did you think that was going to happen again this year? Like, no, that's not that's not what happened. So it was I thought it was fine. It is what it is. It is an iPhone.

It's an incremental iPhone event. They have them every year. They have them every year for good reasons. They're not going to stop doing them because they do want to refresh their product every year. But, you know, saying that it's a, it's a boring kind of thing, that's like dog bites man kind of stuff. Like Apple hasn't done a, it's so rare that the iPhone event completely blows your mind because the pace of smartphone innovation hasn't been like that in a decade. So now it really comes every two, three, four, five years. And otherwise it's just, they push it along and they pushed it along. It's fine.

Like I don't, I don't expect more than this. Like it's a pleasant surprise. I find it funny when people say like, oh, this should have been an S phone. It doesn't mean anything what they call it.

It doesn't mean anything. I thought the, I always thought the S was dumb ever since the S is for speed with the iPhone 3GS. Because it didn't make any sense, right? iPhone's stupid. You would incrementally number every other one.

That didn't make any sense anyway, right? Yeah, I agree. It's like 4, 4S, 5, 5. It didn't, it was, no. And it's not like people, I mean, if you're on, okay, here's the one place where I will say I understand people grumbling about this is the people who are on the upgrade program where they get not this upgrade program that we're on but the iPhone this is good program yeah they get a new phone every year and the idea is yay it's exciting I get a new phone every year and last year's phone came out a month later so they have to pay extra in order to get a

new phone that they're not that excited about but even then I think you could just have to pay extra in order to get a new phone that they're not that excited about. But even then, I think you could just continue to pay it and then you pay it off and then you can hand down that phone. You just upgrade when you're ready. No, I don't think that even on that plan. Like on the upgrade plan, like on the upgrade program, you're paying every month anyway, whether the phone is good or bad or somewhere in between. The truth is, whatever, 95% of people don't buy an iPhone every year.

And it's like I got excited about the Apple Watch. I'm less excited about the iPhones. Rumor has it that the iPhones next year are going to be different, right? Like they don't do that every year. They're not going to try to do that every year. And I got to say, again, no, it was not a very exciting thing. But I also have to say that there's a a tenor especially in some of the let me say the more mainstream press about this stuff that is very much like why is apple

not dancing for my amusement like dance monkey dance because you know they want to have stuff to write about and they want to be entertained and they want to have the next big thing and like it's never really been like that but it's a it gives you a thing to write every year to have the next big thing. And like, it's never really been like that, but it's a, it gives you a thing to write every year to have a hot take that Apple is a, Apple is boring. Smartphones have been boring for a while now. That's just the truth of it. They've been boring for a while now. It's a mature market, isn't it? This is, this is the era where people who want to nerd out about phone features can appreciate the little details. That's us, by the way. That's us. But no, it's incremental.

It is. John Gruber wrote a piece for me in Macworld like 15 years ago about incrementalism, and he links to it all the time. Like Apple, Apple's whole thing is incremental, and people have always misunderstood Apple and said, oh, every Apple announcement that isn't uh world changing is is dumb and boring and they should feel bad and it's like yeah i don't know it's always been this way was this year more incremental than usual yeah it was but you know that that's how it is i would i don't know if i had to analyze i think that that screen i think the screen is going to really

surprise people that's just the promotion on the pro is going to really surprise people. The promotion on the Pro? Yes. Could be. I think it's something we can't see. And plus the cameras, like the camera changes seem so much bigger this year than last year. But for me, I feel like Apple made a bigger song and dance of it last year than this year. Well, isn't this what Apple does, though, is Apple does the visual changes and then does the not as visible changes the next year? That tends to be what they do.

Not always, but they always do. That's the incrementalism of it. And if you look closely, you can find things that are interesting. But in the end, what they're really doing is they're selling this phone to people who have an iPhone X or XS or 8 or 7 and not people who have the iPhone 12, maybe even the iPhone 11, right? Okay. But that's who they're selling this to. And it's fine. There are going to be good things in it, but most people are buying this year's advances

and last year's advances and maybe the years before his advances, right? Like there's a very large number of people, a surprisingly large number of people who will buy the iPhone 13 for whom it will be their first Face ID phone, right? Like I know that seems weird to us, but like there's a lot of people out there with iPhone 7s and 8s who are going to update this year. And they're going to be like, whoa, what is OLED face ID? This is wild. It's like, yeah, yeah. So I don't know. I thought it was fine.

I think that there is some COVID hangover happening here where I feel like even Apple cannot be at 100% having been doing all of this remote work and having all of this disruption for more than a year. And we probably see a little more of it this year than last, because of course they work way ahead. But I think it's not dramatic. Like this is just what they do. And I think the announcements are fine and the products, I mean, the products don't look like dogs or anything. It's not like they ratcheted up the price for a lesser product the prices are are stay the same so um it feels very normal to me i guess that translates as boring but i don't know it just feels normal to me one thing i've been wondering is like why did they announce the apple watch now if it's not ready for an indeterminate amount of time?

If they are going to have another event later in the year, which it seems like that they would or they easily could? Yeah, it's something we've discussed before. The idea of do you announce a product of your Apple with your like they want to do it in this timeline of theirs, right? Which is announced now on sale, ships now, right? And it doesn't have to be this week. Sometimes it's announced now, goes on sale next Friday or in two Fridays even, and then ships two weeks after that or whatever, right? Like there's a calendar, sort of an internal calendar. And what you want to do if you're a seller of products,

which Apple most definitely is, is give people a call to action, right? So the ideal is, hey, everybody, new iPhones. It's Tuesday. You can order them Friday. I mean, I would argue it would be better if you could order them that day, but Apple seems to have decided that this is the way you do it. You can order them Friday. And did order them Friday and then they're going to ship. So great. I mean, with the iPad mini, they were available then, right then. So that was kind of exciting too. There's Apple Watch, which like isn't on the calendar. So the question is, I think you ask, it's a good question. Why now, if you don't have the calendar, even if it was a calendar that was pushed out several weeks? Why now?

And I think the answer is they know we don't, but they know what else they've got this fall. And they're looking at putting an Apple Watch with a MacBook Pro and how they shift gears to tell that story. Whereas the Apple Watch is the iPhone's buddy, right right it's a sidekick product to the iphone so they made the decision and it's interesting because last year they deferred the iphone but kept the apple watch but i guess we can't use i was just thinking this right because it was like ipad ipad apple Watch was one event. But I guess we can't really use last year as an example of anything, right? Yeah.

And I think the Apple Watch is not the iPhone, right? They carry different weight. And I think the Apple Watch going first was a little bit weird. But if you hold on to the Apple Watch, don't announce it here, even though it's the iPhone's buddy. And then you announce it with a MacBook Pro. MacBook Pro, Apple really does like to do these use case things where it's like, these are for pros. These are for people who really care. And the Apple Watch is a foundational product. It's not like an accessory, even though it kind of is. product it's not like an accessory even though it kind of is um it tells a totally different story so and it and it is you know its os release is basically tied to the ios release i don't know it to me it feels like they decided this was a better fit thematically and a better fit because

it's the iphone's buddy than to hold it off because they know what else they have to announce and they were trying to think do we put it in that event? And think, no, it fits better just going along with the iPhone, even though they're not ready. But it was probably a tough decision because I think they don't, I think they super don't like not having that product sales calendar set when they announce the product. But I think that's, they're stuck because they've pulled the rug out of the apple watch sales you know for a little bit that there will be a dip i mean who knows how much but anybody who is thinking they wanted an apple watch series six won't buy

one now until whenever yeah so um that's my best guess anyway is is since you asked is that they they know what their next event is and they thought now this fits better even though that we're going to give up that really useful messaging where we say here's how here's this great thing and now go buy it or go buy it in a few days they gave that up but you know they did get a good match with the rest of the products in that event. I ordered my iPad mini before our last episode. I ordered my iPhone. I really liked, I just wanted to say, I really liked Apple's new system

where you could, before the pre-order date, you could just go into the Apple Store app, choose everything you wanted, and then all you had to do was open the app and just press a button to do was open the app and just press a button to confirm and if i used apple pay and just authorize apple pay that's it like it was way easier but you didn't have to go through the whole selection process uh which you know takes the time it takes so you just have less to do when you're rushing to try and get your order

in if you want to get it on the first day so i liked it yeah this it apple focusing some of its effort on making it easier to give apple money would seem to be a no-brainer and yet uh it doesn't always happen but it's a it's a smart thing right because ultimately that's what they want is just grease the skids of how easy it is for you to shovel money. Global Highlanders pointed in a Discord, there was a point of like, if you had an Apple card, it failed. Yeah.

So what we always say on this podcast is iPhone, you think that other things are big, but only the iPhone is really big. Like you lose sight of it and you're like, oh, WWDC, that's a big event. And we see it.

So we went live last week after the event and we a few years ago at wwdc we quadrupled essentially our live stream capacity because we were maxing out and we maxed out at our new quadrupled number we maxed out the number of live listeners we could have steven had to pay more money for a bigger server for next time. But this is the lesson. Back when everybody was using live blogging platforms, all the live blogging platforms would break on iPhone day. Because the iPhone interest is just way more than the interest for any other product. And we can lose sight of it when we're talking about Apple as a whole.

Lose sight of that fact that the iPhone is just so much more important than anything else Apple does. Well, it's like, just in general, we do a lot of fun things in this show. We've been lucky to have a lot of interviews with people at Apple, et cetera, et cetera. There's never an episode bigger than the iPhone event episode. Never, ever, ever. Doesn't matter what happens. So this goes to Apple's financial partners as well, right? Where somebody somewhere along the way, maybe at the Apple Card Bank, which is not Apple, right?

They have a bank partner. Somebody somewhere was like, we've stress tested this thing. It's going to be great. And then 5 a.m. Pacific on iPhone ordering day comes and they realize, oh, no, because the iPhone is that popular. Right. Like gauge, gauge. Look at all of your maximums for your whole history. Do not set the bar at those because the iPhone will break it. The iPhone is going to break it. And it broke it. It broke their financial system. It swamped it. And Apple Card charges were getting rejected and you had to put in a different card, which then worked, right? It wasn't the credit card processing system on apple.com that was broken. It was the verification step from Apple card that broke because they were overwhelmed

because buying Apple products on the Apple card is the best deal you can get. It is the best deal, right? You get a lot of money back if you buy Apple products on the Apple card. So everybody uses their Apple card for their Apple products. And it's just funny. Somebody had a real bad day at whatever bank or whatever processing house was in charge of that. If it's just funny. Like somebody had a real bad day at whatever bank or whatever processing house was in charge of that. If it's Goldman Sachs or if it's a partner of theirs

but whoever was in charge of that connection and making sure that it could withstand a peak, they blew it. And Apple lost probably some money and definitely some money to the apple card where one of their competitors uh you know one of the apple cards competitors ended up getting that transaction although apple did do a lot of since these are pre-orders apple apparently

emailed a lot of people and said it seems like you were trying to pay with your apple card it didn't work we fixed the problem click here to switch your order to the Apple card. So they tried to do some damage control, but like they're going to lose some money. So anyway, the lesson is never underestimate the iPhone. Never, ever. Mark Gurman is still expecting new AirPods and MacBook Pros to be announced this year.

So that's still, you know, still a going concern. So we'll find out about that. I'm still pretty hyped about the about possible new MacBook Pro. But we should talk about chips, chips, chips, chips, not the kind of chips for dinner, but the kind of chips in phones and devices. The Apple Watch has the same processor, the new Apple Watch Series 7 has the same processor as the Series 6 that has been discovered by looking through code strings, etc. Not the first time this has happened. And the Apple Watch line, but does

note why they didn't talk about it. I didn't realize that at the time. It didn't strike me that, oh yeah, they didn't talk about anything about the system on a chip. Well, it's because you already know everything about it. It's the same as the last one. Yeah. I think it makes sense for this product, though. It's fine.

I don't think they need new chips in their products every single year, and especially the Apple Watch. I don't think that it's a thing that must be done every single time. But let's talk about the A15. Suspicious. Because it's been a lot of back and forth on this in a

really interesting way so like you'll remember apple went down to the chip lab for a much condensed portion last time and they gave some statistics but all those statistics were about this the a15 against the competition competition and it's very strange, we were talking about last time. And then there were some initial benchmarks that came out through Geekbench, as they tend to do, of what appeared to be, or what was known to be the iPad mini. And there was vastly improved graphics performance, which makes sense because there was more GPU cores.

So let me back up for a second because there's an interim step here too, which is Apple did compare the iPad Mini's processor to the previous generation iPad Mini. Yes. So I did the math, and I wrote about this at Macworld last week. I did the math on the difference about this at macworld last week last week i did the math on the difference

and then tried to extrapolate that to get a geekbench score for the ipad mini which is so for the a15 and the results i were getting were basically the same or slightly slower than the a14 on core stuff gpu gpu? You know, those stories came out that the GPU is better. So obviously, there's been some improvement to the GPU performance. But the core performance

seemed static. It seemed like the A15 and the iPad mini was not any faster than the A14 in the iPhone 12. And that was perplexing. And you combine that

with Apple not comparing the iPhone 12. And that was perplexing. And you combine that with Apple not comparing the iPhone to the previous iPhone. And it raised the question like, is the A15 core not any faster than the A14? Did that really happen? And then there was like, oh, you know, maybe there's,

maybe I think there was a report that like a bunch of people had left and now apple's can't do it anymore yes that's right that's right there was an apple apple is apple uh chip making is basically doomed and entering a dark age because a bunch of people left apple's chip making group to do a startup that got bought by qualcomm and then a bunch of other people went and left to go to a different startup. That was a good story with a lot of really, you could see the bias and the assumptions and things like the headline, but the actual story had some interesting details in it. But it is a question of like, well, was it COVID? Is it

doom and gloom? Is it that they had a goal for a next generation core and they didn't have time to put in A1515 so it'll come later is it the mac transition the apple silicon transition are they so busy making a souped up chip for macbook pros and and beyond that they didn't have time to really apply themselves to the a15 lots of theories out there until the first benchmark just before that as well and then i heard on dithering john gruber had a good good theory, which I liked and was subscribing to, of like maybe they decided not to go too heavy on the CPU this time.

They went more on the kind of the energy efficiency course to get the battery life. Because the battery life claims are a lot better. So did they take the A15 and have it be not faster, but way more power efficient? And was that the trick they did? And then... And then what happened is um more scores got

updated i don't know who does this is it people who don't understand that if you have geekbench and not geekbench pro it uploads all the scores automatically by the way if you're a reviewer um it's in violation of your nda if you do that you can't do that you gotta you gotta buy geekbench pro people i think it could be reviewers doing it either accidentally or purposefully. Or people at Apple. Yeah. Or it could be Apple. So anyway, it could be Apple.

Oh, wow. That's an interesting theory. Anyway, put the kibosh on this whole story because A15 actually does look faster than A14 on the iPhone. And I had that moment where I was like, well, how could that be? And I thought to myself, I wonder if they, did they just underclock the A15 in the iPad Mini? Is it just slower than the A15 in the iPhone? And it sounds like, yeah, that's actually what they did, which may mean. So it turns out the A15, if these benchmark scores are accurate, is about as much faster as the A14 as has been the average core improvement over the last five years. So not a story.

It may be just 15% to 20% faster per core. And if that's true, then basically Apple continues the pace of CPU advancement, just like they've been doing. But what I think is the most interesting is, first, we already knew that the iPhone 13 and 13 Pro are different in the sense that there's one more GPU. It's very much like the MacBook Air, right? That was like, has the two different GPU configurations. And that's chip binning right where they're disabling the gpu in one because maybe it isn't up to spec or maybe it doesn't

run that well or or whatever but it allows them to sort of like differentiate they're making one chip but they can differentiate in the products they sell by having some of them be more advanced and some of them being less advanced well if the ipad reduces waste and a lot of you know there are a lot of advantages to it right because you can use chips that you might not otherwise qualify which doesn't necessarily mean your chip isn't qualified for the higher thing because like if they have if they have to make 100 macbook airs or 100 uh iphone 13s that have that disabled gpu and they don't have 100 that that the GPU disabled. They just disable the GPU anyway, right? Like they can do it that way if they really want to, just to make it all consistent.

But downclocking, so literally having the A15 and the iPad mini run at a slower clock speed, that's another way you do chip differentiation is it's the same chip, but it's running at a lower clock speed, maybe because it has to, because it wouldn't have qualified at the higher clock speed maybe because of battery life issues who knows what their reasons are it could be a lot it could

be it could be lots of stuff but it seems like so there's one a15 sort of but apple's actually selling it in three different configurations for now which. Which is interesting. For now. There might be another one coming next year. There might be. So three different A15s, basically. Oh, I guess more than, right? Because iPads, iPad Pros will get it. Macs will get a version of this core. But they'll get like an M2 or something, right?

They won't get an A15 proper. They'll get a different version. Well, the iPad Air. iPad Air, maybe. Could get A15 proper. They'll get a different version. Well, the iPad Air. iPad Air, maybe. Could get A15X, which would be strange. So this is really interesting that they've done this.

But it also means that the... All of this happened because Apple refused to compare the A15 to the A14 when they introduced the iPhone. I know probably why they did it is because somebody in a marketing meeting said, our numbers are bigger against Qualcomm than they are against ourselves. Why are we comparing ourselves to ourselves? Why don't we compare

ourselves to the competition? The numbers are much more impressive. Instead of 20% faster, we can say 50% faster. It's better. Let's do that. And also maybe, you know, like the compare ourselves to ourselves story might be more fun for max later on in the year let's not keep doing the same presentation over and over again whatever it is and and but you know it had the net effect of being like uh-oh they're not comparing themselves to the a14 they're only comparing themselves to like the a12 and the ipad mini so what does that mean and the answer is maybe nothing this week we'll tell right presumably we'll get a bunch of reviews this week that'll give us a much

clearer picture, but assuming that those those benchmark numbers are accurate. It sounds like the A15 is kind of just on the trail of it's, it's another advancement of 15 to 20% in core efficiency and it, and they're're they're varying it using probably using binning they're varying it in the different products in order to meet whatever needs they have and uh and we'll see where they go from here but it's it's it's it's interesting but not in the way that maybe um it seemed and i think it all comes down to a marketing decision that comparing themselves to qualcomm's chips looks better than comparing themselves to the A14 because the A14 is faster than Qualcomm's fastest chips that are shipping.

And so Apple has, I mean, the argument is that Apple has lapped Qualcomm for a while now. They've been more than a year ahead of them. So comparing yourself to Qualcomm is going to make you look better. That number is going to be bigger because the Qualcomm chip is slower than the A14. That number is going to be bigger because the Qualcomm chip is slower than the A14. But it did have this weird follow-on effect of us all kind of raising our eyebrows and saying, wait a second. Why aren't you talking about the A14 performance? And it may just be a coincidence.

Yep. Sometimes recording first, you know, like we record the event first and that can have its benefits and disadvantages sometimes being the beginning of a new week also has its benefits and disadvantages because if we recorded this show on like thursdays or whatever you know we'd be like oh what's going on with the 850 and now we've got the full weeks worth of coverage like oh maybe it's not a thing at all now yeah now now we know this episode is brought to you by squarespace the all-in-one platform to build your online presence and run your business. From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace have got you covered. It really is the full package. They combine cutting-edge design and world-class engineering to make it easier than ever to establish your home online and make

your ideas a reality. Whether you want to showcase your work of an incredible portfolio, publish your next blog post, promote your business, announce an upcoming event, and so much more, Squarespace has the tools. You start with a professionally designed template, and you use their drag-and-drop system to make it your own. You can customize the look, the feel, the settings, the products you have on sale, everything with just a few clicks. Everything's optimized for mobile. Your content's going to look fantastic on all kinds of devices. Squarespace has everything that you need to create that beautiful and modern website they have 24 7 customer support unlimited hosting top of the line security seo tools email marketing

tools even unique domain name registration as well there's nothing to install nothing to patch nothing to upgrade that is one of my personal very favorite features of squarespace you don't have to like do a ton of work at the beginning with the setup. You just do the fun stuff like choosing a design and customizing the design. You don't have to do any of the stuff where you're trying to like get the website off the ground. That stuff for me, it just gets in the way. I don't have to worry about that with Squarespace. Go to squarespace.com slash upgrade and you'll be able to sign up for a free trial today with no credit card required.

Build your website and then when you're ready to launch it, use the offer code upgrade and you'll get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash upgrade and then the code upgrade when you sign up to get 10% off your first purchase

and show your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of this show and RelayFM. iOS 15 is out today. Yay, it's the day. I'm expecting for most listeners of this show, iOS 15 is not something you don't already know something about

because I assume many of you, not all, but many of you will have been on some kind of beta. But there is a bunch of wonderful literature for you to peruse to find out stuff that you may or may not have known. Of course, you should always start with Federico Vittici's incredible and comprehensive review of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15. The wonderful friend of the show, Dan Morin,

has published a review of iOS. Is it just iOS on the phone that Dan focuses on primarily? Yeah, and you can start with Dan's review if you want to. That's fine. Start however you want. I think that Six Colors Review is excellent. It's also shorter.

It's only about 9,000 words. So, you know, it's going to take less time than Federico's. Federico's, you know, you got to take your time. So Dan focused on iOS 15, but he touches on the iPad a little bit. And then I wrote a supplemental piece to his piece that is about iPadOS 15. So that's sort of how we split it out is I wrote a piece about the 15 experience as an iPad user because I used iPadOS 15 on my primary iPad

for the entire summer and did not use it on my iPhone until like two weeks ago. So Dan focused on iOS, I focused on iPadOS, but there's a bunch of crossover too. It's definitely a odd release of iOS. I feel like there wasn't a ton of stuff to start with. And then there's also a lot less left by the time that it's come out.

Like a lot of features have been pushed to later, you know, share play being one of them. We spoke about it before. Universal control. All this stuff coming later on. But there is stuff there, and I think some of the stuff that's there is actually quite interesting.

So live text is something that is incredibly impressive, and the more I remember to use it, the more I'm impressed with it. It's one of these things that you have to, and I've noticed this in myself over the time of using the beta, it's a feature that you have to remember to use. And then the more you remember to use it, the more places you find to use it. So I was doing a thing recently where I had

to call someone and I had their telephone number on a piece of paper. It was like printed on a piece of paper. And I opened the phone app and started dialing it and was like, no, no, wait. And then open the camera app and then just point in my camera and press the button and it called them immediately, right? So it's like so little things like that which this system now has available to it which is very i think is very cool but we just have to make sure that we are integrating it into our workflows yeah live text is great um i will mention one thing about it that bothers me which is um you can search it it includes all the photos in your photo library which is kind of amazing so i i did a search for zebra that's one of my sample searches that i do and i do have some pictures of zebras in my photo library um from zoos and from hearst castle where there are

zebras if you didn't know um and it also i took I had a, a humorous moment when we were walking on, actually the last day we were in London for your wedding, we had a get together at a park. Um, and, uh, with a food, there's like a restaurant, but it's right next to a park. We're walking down there from the tube station and there are, uh's a it's a residential street so it's got you know speed bumps basically and and there's a uh a sign that says something like um warning zebra humps or something like that this is zebra crossing yeah but but the the it wasn't quite zebra crossing it was something it was it was a funny wording of the sign. And I took a picture of it because I thought it was a funny sign. And that showed up in my zebra search.

Because the word zebra was on the sign, it showed up in my search for zebra. That's cool. What's less cool is that if I'm in the photos app and I search for zebra, it doesn't search for the text. It just isn't in there. I don't understand why. So you can only search from Spotlight. You can search your entire photo library for text, but only from Spotlight, not from photos,

which is where they live. That's so weird, right? I don't understand why they did that. I was looking for something. There's this little joke that we have from WWDC years ago. It's just like a poster. And the poster says, show dad he's rad. And me and you just thought it was hilarious.

I don't know why. Yeah, well, it was because you read it. And we misread it, I think, as show dad, like he's a show dad, whatever that is. And he's rad, the show dad, he's rad. Now the world knows our inside joke. And yeah, you can find it, but only in Spotlight. Because I was searching in photos and couldn't find it. And then when you said that, I've gone to spotlight and I've searched it and it came up.

And it's like, why? Why? Why are you doing it? Why do you do this, Apple? Why do you do these things? I think that's just so frustrating to me. But anyway, LiveText itself is really cool. Oh, I wanted to mention just,

it's another little detail, but it shows you how broken this idea is, that if you do a spotlight search for an object and it's only in the photos library, like a dog, but not the word dog, it'll say, it'll show you a bunch of photos and you can tap and it'll open all of those photos it gives you a thing that shows you photos with zebras and text containing zebras with a tap to see more and the tap to see more can't open photos because he doesn't know about text in photos so it opens i guess a second spotlight window that replaces the first results with a second split view that says, here are the ones with text and here are the ones with pictures and you can open these in photos. It's like, what are you doing? Like, why are you building all these workarounds when you could just put the text in photos?

I don't understand it. Anyway, I write a book about photos. I go down the rabbit hole in the summer where I poke into these various features and it's like, why? Why did you do it this way? But live text is great. It could be a little greater, but it's great. You know, now you've mentioned photos.

I want to talk about something in photos, which is the new memories feature. So I don't know if you are writing an article, right? About photos. I don't think you've published it yet. By the time this podcast comes out, it'll be out. Okay. And you really like the new memories feature. And I don't think I do. Huh? What don't you like about it? I don't like how difficult it is almost now and impossible to just see the images in the memory. I don't necessarily always want the movie and you used to be able to,

and I was 14, it would show you a memory and you could just scroll through the images and they make that incredibly difficult now. And like most of the time, I just want to see the images. I don't want all the music and stuff. Well, you can, you can like tap through

and see them yeah but sometimes i just like to look at it i don't need like here's a song from it you know like you know which is but i mean as well you said the music has been good for you for me like i don't know where the music comes from because i don't think i've hit a memory yet with a song that i have in my music library. So what it does is if you listen to Apple music on your device that you're viewing the photos on, it knows what music you listen to on Apple music. Or maybe if it's in your iCloud account. So it knows what photos or what kinds of music you like. It also has a library of music that are allowed to be used with memories. And it does some smart selection based on the kind of memory it is and based on

the music it knows about. But yeah, I get some options and you can tap and get different options for songs and you can even pick your own. But get some options that are songs i know and then there are other songs options where i'm like oh this is a beach memories thing and this is a beach or summer or something song and that's i think it's very clever i have watched the movies and enjoyed them like i'm not saying that it is that they've done a bad job right like i i've watched a few of them and like oh thank you but i don't always want to watch the movie sometimes i just want to see the images and i kind of it's annoyed me that it's like it always just wants to show me a movie now like and for me to try and stop it doing that is difficult i like them i think they're i think they're much better they used to have it be that was it was kind of like a an automatic album but it was also a movie that you could kind of edit but it was just sort

of in the header and they basically thrown that away and said movies are now or memories are now these dynamic kind of slideshows that you can tap through like a slideshow but you can also just let them play and the music goes you can edit them to add or remove memories if you really care you can discard them fairly easily i think they're much smarter i think the music selections are better than they were before they're also timed to the beat which is very clever um and they they like auto sense and try to put on on like a like a filter as well they are uh recognizing like they do different kind of animations. They're looking at like where the faces are and they're looking at sort of similar images with different content in them and doing them like as a one-two punch of like there's a person staring at the camera and then a person smiling. And there's a lot of intelligence behind it. It's not perfect, but I feel like it's really good and easy.

feel like it's really good and easy and uh that combined with putting the photos widget out on my um on my ipad home screen uh which is great has uh unearthed all sorts of fun stuff that i would not have gone back to so i'm i'm basically a proponent of it what i what i don't like about it is that it's not in mac os monterey yet uh it's coming later. So, I mean, it won't be there at launch of Monterey whenever that happens. And so the old memories remain on the Mac for now, but they are committed to replacing memories on the Mac as well. Right.

I'm much more a fan of featured photos than memories. I just like seeing old photos. That's my favorite thing. All right. I maintain that, I've mentioned this in the show before i really hate the shared with you thing in photos i really don't like just these so random photos showing up okay library so the way it's supposed to work i know is that uh if you if it's a photo of you or a photo at a location that it knows that you were at a time and place that you were

it puts that thumbnail in your photos library with a little tag on it that says this came from messages. Somebody shared this with you and you can add it to your library or not, but it shows up in the context. It's a little bit weird, but when it works, it's a little more delightful. You have said that inappropriate photos are being inserted in your photos library. It's not supposed to work that way. Then again, it was a beta. Maybe it works better now that it's final. But it's not supposed to work that way.

And I haven't seen that. All the photos that have gotten inserted, like there was a photo from when I was at a baseball game and it was a picture Lauren took. And she sent it to me because I think it was literally, this is the beer they have. Which one do you want? And that's in my library. And it's like, well, I was there for that. That makes sense.

It's actually part of that. The better feature is that in messages, you get a little download arrow next to every photo that somebody sends you. And if you tap it, it adds it to your photos library, which should have been there a long time ago. But now it's like super easy to add things to your photos library if you want and shared with you out on the top level of the photos app shows you all the photos that have been shared with you, which is useful because you can go in and say, yes,

I do want to add that in putting them in the context of your photos library. I don't know. I see what they're trying to do there. I think maybe it should be more sacrosanct than that. And, and, and not put it in the actual like show me all my photos except also some other photos that have gotten in here because that's maybe that was a metaphor that they shouldn't have broken yeah it doesn't i found that it doesn't work for me but even if it does work the way that they want perfectly i still would would just prefer to choose just how I am.

You know, like if someone sends me a bunch of images, I will look through them and I will save the ones I like. Like that's just like a thing that I do. For me personally, I don't need the phone to do that, but you can very easily turn it off. So I really disagree about the utility of shared with you in the for you tab in photos. Because the thing I like about shared with you in general in iOS 15 is I think it's really stupid to force people to go back and find a message in messages when they know somebody sent them a link or a picture.

When the better context is in Safariari and photos i wish that that was all it did like just in that there's a in the for you page i could get them but i can't choose to just have that and then also not have them show up in my recents or in my actual photo library in your actual photo yeah and that i i see that they have a toggle but if you change that toggle it just resets itself after a certain period of time it's like i wished that i could have the for you section in the like the shared with you in the for you section of the photos app i think that's really great but if i leave the setting on it then also puts the images in my photo library which is not a thing that i want because it hasn't been reliable enough for me.

But even if it was, I still don't want that. I still want to choose what images I put in my own photo library. But I can't, you know, it's either for me, it's like either don't have it on at all or have it on and be annoyed. So I decided to turn it off and I would just continue to work

as I worked before I was 15. Anyway I want to go back to stuff I like because really I like most of this stuff and I'm kind of just railing on this now. Focus is great. I've just set up one focus mode so far which is for recording and I really like that I'm able to say like if such and such person sends me a message they can come through and I'm intrigued to say like if such and such person sends me a message they can come through and I'm intrigued to see as more apps get the time sensitive stuff which ones I'll allow in

in general I think that the time sensitive notifications thing is cool I wished that I could define within an application myself which type of notifications I think are time sensitive rather than the developer you know what i mean um so but you know maybe that's something that will get a little bit more tweaking over time uh but i do really like the focus mode i wanted to set up some more uh there's one i keep mentioning but i think it's so cool uh matt bischoff friend of the

show uh set up a travel focus, which then creates like, it sets a bunch of preferences, but also makes your home screen a travel focused home screen with relative widgets and applications. Stuff like that, I think is really smart. And so I want to do some stuff like that. One of the things I like about focus that was unclear over the summer is apps supporting focus makes a big difference. So for example, Slack, where we get lots of messages, supporting focus means that now when I say I want to see

messages from Mike, when I'm in this, when I'm in my work mode, Mike can break through, when I'm in my work mode. Mike can break through, but other people can't. It knows when you are sending me a message in Slack and that you are Mike. And I don't know if this is because I'm on a Slack beta. It may not be out yet for everybody, but you start to get notifications that say, oh, you got a Slack message from Mike. This seems to be Mike Hurley from your contacts. Do you want me to add his Slack ID to his contact? So I know that that's him. And if you say yes, now it knows all your Slack messages are also you and to let them through when you're allowed by focus. And that is that extra level that makes this all work better is if the apps support it, then everybody's working together because it doesn't it isn't so great when you say, I want to hear from Mike and it goes, well, I don't know what Slack's doing. So I'm only going to send you iMessages from Mike.

So it's gotten and will continue to get a lot better as apps support focus. I haven't seen any of that myself yet. Yeah, it must be the Slack beta that I'm on, but it's great. It works really well. So that will presumably be forthcoming to a Slack final release somewhere. But the moment that they updated and I started getting those messages, which I think was like Thursday last week, I started to nod and be like, oh, okay, Focus has now gotten a lot better. Just by that, Focus got way better for me because I get so many messages that are coming through in Slack. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I haven't seen that, but I hope that a lot of apps adopt that faster than

other types of things that Apple have done in the past. My big problem with Focus, and this is more for when we talk about macOS Monterey, whenever that happens, but focus on the Mac isn't as good. It's way more limited and disappointing in a lot of ways. But on iOS, I'm interested in it. I think the challenge is going to be how we, do we really use it? And I think your suggestion of something like a travel focus, I feel like one of the great benefits, I know Apple's trying this with their presets, but like, I think focus is really going to work for people when they get a focus idea that clicks with them. And they're like, yes, that is a scenario that I could be a part of, right? Whether it's travel or when I'm working or whatever it is. And in general, I like the idea of breaking

do not disturb, which is such a blanket concept up into individual little bits yeah the only one i've set up right now is a recording focus and i'm gonna i don't know i'm gonna tweak it a little bit more but it is one of those things where like you're saying was like i've kind of wait until i'm getting all of my apps updated which are all happening today right like there's a bunch of stuff going on right now like one password got an update they've put the web extension in their ios app like this is things like this is always normal right like you can you can play around on the beta as much as you want but really this stuff actually does unlock

on release day when all the apps that you use update to get all of the features the operating system supports exactly um and so i guess focus is clearly one of those ones i didn't even know that that it could do that like i knew that there was a way that apps could tie into it but i didn't know that the system would tell you and it's like a similar one i'm not sure how i feel about it but i do like that it's there in notifications where if you're getting a bunch of notifications from an app or a conversation it's like hey do you want to mute this for a little bit and i like that it's there in notifications where if you're getting a bunch of notifications from an app or a conversation, it's like, hey, do you want to mute this for a little bit? And I like that it's there

and I like that I can just say no. And I think I've used it once or twice. You're in like a chatty group thread and you're just like, I don't want to respond to this right now. And you can just mute the notifications for like an hour or something, which I think is kind of cool.

There are a lot of stuff going on in notifications. Have you tried out any of the summaries or anything like that? No, I haven't. I don't like it. I tried it, and I don't really like it. I also changed. There's a new default setting where I know this works with Do Not Disturb. I don't know if this is the same for focuses in general,

I know this works with Do Not Disturb. I don't know if this is the same for focuses in general, where you can... It will collapse all of the notifications you received during Do Not Disturb into its own area. And I don't like that. I don't like that. Because now you have these two separate sets of notifications. And so you can turn that off and I turn that off.

I use notifications pretty seldomly. Right. And I don't have a strategy for them because they generally just annoy me. So I tend to just turn everything off about notifications except for very specific like messages from people. about notifications, except for very specific messages from people. And even then, it's much more about in the moment than it is about going back through a list of them later. Maybe when I wake up in the morning, that's about it. Safari. Yep. I love Safari. Okay. I'm happy for you. I think it's great. I don't have the bad feelings everybody else has

because I never used it during the bad times but yeah i think um i i think safari on the iphone is going to take people some it takes some getting used to but actually is is much better now um i i do than it was over the summer i think the bar down at the bottom takes them getting used to but is actually not a bad place for it and the fact that you can swipe between tabs and that the tabs are better rendered on the iphone is good on the ipad it's not as radical a change uh from 14 and they've they've kind of d d uh safari 15 a lot of the stuff before shipping however i will say i think the tab the look of the tabs is is kind of weird and dumb.

I think a lot of people aren't going to like the colored background, and you can turn that off, which is fine. And the one that I'm just going to rail against because it's pointless is they have the tabs, and then if you have your favorites bar, it shows below the tabs, which doesn't make sense because the favorites don't change when you change tabs, and so they should be in the hierarchy above the tabs, not below the tabs, which doesn't make sense because the favorites don't change when you change tabs. And so they should be in the hierarchy above the tabs, not below the tabs. I don't know why they're below the tabs. It doesn't make any sense. And Apple, please fix that. But, you know, otherwise, I think it's fine. And I am very happy that there are extensions on iOS now for Safari.

That's a big win, I think. That's something I haven't really had much experience with yet. And tab groups, which is a good feature on the iPad. Now you can tap and hold on the little sidebar icon and it pops up all your tab groups. So it's very easy to get to them without opening the sidebar, which is good because I'm one of those people who does not want that sidebar open because I don't want to open it and then do something and then close it again. That's three taps. I don't want to do that.

It's really annoying. So I like that you can tap and hold and switch between tab groups and that they've done a really good job. If you tap and hold on a tab, you can send it off to another tab group. That's also a really good feature. I think it works really well on the iPad, and I like tab groups as an idea. It's not going to be for everybody, but the idea that you have sort of

customizable tab sets that sync across all your devices, I think it's really smart, and then a lot of people are going to love it. Yeah, I'm big into the tab groups. I have a couple of different ones, and I really like them. It's where I pop all of my... I'm not a big over-tab kind of person, but I have like a couple of different ones and I really like them it's where I pop all of my I'm not a big over tab kind of person

but I have products that I'm looking at for like maybe I'll buy this and they sit forever in my tabs and they're just off to the left and they just sit there and sometimes I accidentally close them and then forget that I was looking at them which is really dumb and now

I have a tab group that they all go in and they stay there until I need them. And it's so much better because it's cleared out my main tab group and they just stay there and they live there and I can find them when I need them. I might steal that idea from you. That's a good idea because I always have a lot of tabs for things I want to buy and they're on different devices or whatever similarly but for me like I have a couple of businesses that I run and I do a lot of stuff in safari and now I can have more tabs open for those businesses and just keep them off in their own little buckets and I just come to them when I need them and so I like that it like it means that I can not I don't have

to have 20 tabs open everywhere all the time I can just put them into a bunch of buckets and hide them away and just come to them when I need them or when I'm in that mode or I'm doing things for those particular businesses or whatever. So I like that a lot. That's pretty nice. I really like the bottom URL bar on the iPhone. Yeah, I think it's smart.

I think you just got to get over your initial reaction to what the heck is this why is it down there is this some sort of mistake but i think if you live with it you will actually like it the only issue i have is that the gesture to the gestures get in the way of the gestures of the phone like it's a weird it's weird how close those two things are considering they do the exact same thing and they look the same too when you're performing the gesture like there have been many times where i've meant to like skip left to right on tabs and have just changed the app and say oh okay but you know it's like with a lot of these kinds of gestures like at a certain point

you just like muscle memory them and i'm assuming that's going to be similar. I really like widgets in the app library on the iPad. Your story seems to suggest that you, I don't think you like them as much as me. I like, okay. I like widgets on the iPad. We finally have freedom with them. I like app library on the iPad.

I don't like app library. I think it's a dumb redundant feature that isn't as useful as Apple thinks it is. And that since you can search for apps in spotlight, I don't think it needs to exist. I think you just need to have a list of apps somewhere. What I like about app library is that it means that on the iPad, you can now remove apps from your home screen and they stay on your device. And that's great. I have one screen for my iPad now and I love it. And it's got multiple widgets on it, including widgets that aren't on the left side, which is also great. So that's all really good. However, I feel like this is minimal effort from Apple. Like we didn't get any of this in iPad OS 14, even though it was on the iPhone. Instead, they just kind of kept it the widgets in the sidebar. And they didn't do app

library. And I thought, okay, well, I get it. You got to prioritize. We'll get it on iPad OS in in iPad OS 15. I think my assumption was that they would make an iPad-y version, maybe as part of a larger rethinking of the home screen, because I think the iPad home screen has never really made sense and still doesn't make sense. And that's my disappointment. It's not that I don't like putting widgets on the home screen, and it's not like what App Library enables me to do in removing apps from my home screen while keeping them on my device. What I don't like is a couple of things. One is it feels like the minimal amount of effort there. It's not app library reinvented for the iPad. It's literally app library. It's not widgets on the home screen reinvented for the iPad and we changed the iPads. All they did was they changed the size of the grid of the apps so that they match the size of the widgets. That's all they did. And so I think actually the home screen

on the iPad is kind of weirder now because of the way that the apps are spaced. So it's fine. I like it on the base level of let me see if this is better than what was there before. I like it on the base level of let me see if this is better than what was there before. Yeah. But if I'm analyzing this and writing a review of it, I got to say this is the minimum that I would have expected and no more. And I'm disappointed because I think the iPad home screen really needs to be rethought and it didn't happen. And I also, while I like the fact that the ipad widgets can be placed so you know your apps all go in an order and that order is that order whether you rotate the screen or not they don't flip around they don't move around in different places the

sequence of the apps from left to right top to bottom like your is you can't place them dynamically they go in order The one thing that they did in iPadOS 15 that I appreciate is that widgets aren't like that. You can separately place widgets in portrait and landscape, and they stay where they are in portrait and landscape. When you rotate it, they move to the new location, and then the apps flow around them. I think that's clever. I did not know that, Jason. Oh, yeah. I think that's clever. I did not know that, Jason. Oh, yeah. I thought that, like,

I just thought that they were staying in place but rotating, and, like, if I moved them on one, it would change them on the other. Don't think so. I did not know that. Okay. So that's one thing you can try. What I don't like is that it's like a wrestling match with the app icons to get them to be like every time an app moves or a widget moves, all the app icons move. And I end up in a situation where I want these apps down the left side or these widgets down the left side.

And suddenly one of the widgets has gotten kicked out. And now it's over on the right. And some apps are in there where that widget was. And I got like no put the widget back where it is and then it pushes the lower widget out and then i have to move the lower widget out like i it's so dumb like that you have to keep pushing the widgets around to get the apps to move in order to get the widgets to be where you want them to be i just it's, it's frustrating and it's dumb. Like it should be better. And so am I happy?

So this is the thing about reviewing an operating system, right? Am I as a user grateful that this feature exists now? Yes, I am grateful. Thank you, Apple, for making this feature. Am I, as an observer of operating systems and usability and whatever else you want to say that I am, happy with how it's implemented? No, I'm not. I'm not. I think they could have done a better job. And I think that there are very particular parts of it that are frustrating to use, even if

the end result is good. And like anytime you change something and the apps start rolling around and mixing with the widgets again, and you got to fight to get them back and you got to play like tetris to be like well if i put this here now it kicks all those oh no it's kicked it into another screen i'm gonna have to get that app back later and you gotta like have a strategy for how you move your widgets around on the screen you know there's got to be a better way and i think it comes down to Apple's refusal to allow more freeform placement of icons on the screen, right? Like, you can't just say, I want this icon at bottom right. It's like, no, no, no. Icons go from top left to bottom right in a sequence from left to right, and they wrap around like they're letters on a page. That's how they work. And they are unwilling to change that or have at least not changed it yet

and i think they should so again nice but also super disappointing like at the same time for me i think it's a pretty like thinking about it now just like looking at it it's a really strange decision that you still can't free form put app icons wherever you want like yeah it's just weird that that's still like a thing like why do you do you care that much app like do you like why do you care that like if i only want five apps on my home screen why do they have to start in the top like why why why do you care the optimist in me says that the app library thing is the start of a larger rethinking of this because remember now we don't have to have every icon that of every app that is installed it's like step one but like

okay where's step two and the ipad didn't get step two the ipad waited a year and got step one yeah and that's the source of a lot of my frustration. And also just the fact that it, like the iPhone probably needs a home screen revision too, but the iPad has always, like literally always needed it. Remember the first iPad came out and everybody said, wow, all those spaced out icons.

That's kind of weird. We thought they'd do something different on the iPad. I'm sure they'll fix that. And they've never fixed it. So I don't know, maybe something is coming. Maybe that they've got a whole list of things, or maybe they think this is fine. Like I said, I don't think app library is that great. I think it's redundant with other features of the operating system and it doesn't really make sense that they added it, but also there are these other ways. Like I'm frustrated by that too. And I don't think the little dynamically generated app collections are particularly useful to me.

I end up going to app library and be like, oh, it's app library. I guess I could search here too, just like I can in spotlight, but that's about all I do. So it's kind of bananas that they have. Yeah, you got a big iPad and you want to put that icon down here. It's like, nope, it doesn't go down there.

It goes up. That's the only place it can go is up. The only way is up, baby. The only way. Can I mention QuickNote? Like QuickNote, and this is kind of a theme of my feeling about iPadOS 15. It's like, good, but.

Thanks. QuickNote's really good on the iPad. It's not on the iPhone, and it's pointless on the Mac, because Quick Notes' killer feature is that it's a note window that floats over other apps. On the Mac, that's just a window. So irrelevant, really. On the iPad, it is this moment where you're in an app and you drag from the bottom right and there's a little floating note window and you can write with a pencil or you can type

and you get a little note and it's context-based and you can insert metadata from some apps. If apps offer their metadata up, you can add them to your note, which is a really nice kind of clever way to annotate the note that you're making. And Apple rolled in a cool Safari feature where if you select text in Safari on a particular page, it's linked so that if you go back to that page, the Quick Note is there and it knows that it's there. All that is good. But my larger point is really the killer feature of Quick Note is that Apple is allowing a single system app in a single instance to float above other apps, which is nice, but you know what would be nicer is if app windows could float above other apps in general in iPadOS, which they should be able to do. So while I applaud

Apple for QuickNote, and I feel like QuickNote may be a glimmer of what might be the future of the iPad at some point. Between QuickNote and the fact that they've got those kind of floating windows, like in mail, where there's like a message window that's floating above the rest of the mail window. Like there are glimmers of that. But in the short term, I look at QuickNote and I think, thank you for this interesting feature, but it's only really interesting because of all of the limitations that you put on your operating system and like so thanks for taking off one of the chains um so yeah it's a good feature but it really is only good because it can do what every window on the mac can do i guess the

i haven't tried it monterey right i haven't tried monterey or i i guess the I haven't tried it in Monterey right I haven't tried Monterey at all I guess the you can tell me like the thing on in iPadOS that's I like that's interesting and again it's more apps I'm seeing in release notes are updating on it and it's cool it's like you get this little ability to like just press a little button and you can add

a deep link to wherever you're looking at do you get that on the Mac too do you get that on the Mac too? Do you get that on the Mac too? The metadata sharing is cool. I don't know. Honestly, I've used it very little on the Mac because it's super boring because it's literally opening a window

is what it is on the Mac. It's like, oh, it's a notes window with a note. It's just not that interesting. It is something to say though that this is finally a feature for the iPad that's great for the iPad. It's rare that this happens. It's usually the other two that get it, right? I know.

I will hand that to it. But it is really frustrating to me that I can't find some way to do this on my iPhone. My iPhone, especially screen, is big enough to handle a floating window, right? We can make that work. It can do picture in picture. I should be able to bring up a picture in picture size note window to do the similar stuff. I think the argument would be that if you bring in the note window

and then you slide up the keyboard, you don't really have any content visible other than your notes. So you might as well just have it be in notes. That would be their argument. Yeah, but then I can't, but like what I want to be able to do is the metadata thing, where like you know like i've got an email open i think that's fair bring in a quick note type of thing write a note and then save it right like yeah i think i would want to do that and like that would be much quicker quick note right than it is on the ipad because

like technically with quick note on the ipad you could just have it open for ages and just write all your notes in it, right? You could. This is much more of a like, here's a little thing, I'm going to write it and then I'm going to throw it away again. I would like to see them do that.

Like really Quick Note on the iPhone is just, it's like completely non-existent, except the fact that there's now a folder in the Notes app. You can see the notes from other devices. So I like your point there, which is you don't really want, I mean, you could take notes,

but really the point of QuickNote on the iPhone is as a link collector, for lack of a better word, because you're on your iPhone and there's a webpage and you want to save that webpage. So you swipe out QuickNote and you add it to your note or pick what note you want it to be in and add it. And that's got value. You could do that with the share.

There are other ways to do exactly what you're describing, but I get what you're saying about the quick access to add something like that. This would be faster than doing the share extension, which I use all the time. And I was excited by this. And I was convinced that they said there was a way to bring up a quick note

on the iPhone from Control Center. Like maybe I had a fever dream where that was a thing. But I'm convinced that they originally said you could do that. But it seems like no. Could we talk about iPadOS multitasking? Yes.

I really like it as a new addition to the existing foundation yeah i think it's the start of something where they're trying to make things more discoverable and i think that having that multitask controller everywhere first off it's a drag handle so it's like literally they are one more step closer to having Windows on iOS, where you can click on it or tap on it and move it. Like they're already laying the groundwork there, but it's so much more discoverable to be able to tap on it and say, put this full screen or put this on the side. And then you're in the home screen where you can pick the second app. And then the second app comes up on the other side or put this in slide over. Like multitasking on the iPad is not for everybody, but it's for more people than it used to be because they added this interface for it. And it also feels to me very much like step one of a larger process. This combined with that

floating window concept, the multi-window concept, the idea of the shelf that has the multiple windows for any given app, like it feels like step one of a longer process to do more sophisticated windowing or tiling or whatever on the iPad in the future. But even just as discoverable multitasking, I think it's a good step. I continue to want it to go further, especially with the keyboard. For sure. During beta one, I got a feature I wanted that they removed and it never go further, especially with the keyboard. For sure. During beta one, I got a feature I wanted that they removed and it never came back, which was like full keyboard control

of replacing both left and right window. They changed it with like, you can only replace the active window and you have to switch them around. Like that was a frustration, but it is better. And that ties into the globe key, which is a, I like it.

It's a cool addition. Just more stuff. Yeah. Like I've got this keyboard attached to it all the time just give me more control with it it doesn't harm anyone i'm still really confused about why the globe key doesn't let you control brightness and media and volume because apple's keyboard for the iPad doesn't ship with a function row. And they've created a globe key, which is for global keyboard shortcuts. That's the whole idea is they made a new key that doesn't conflict with any existing app shortcuts. And yet, if you want to raise the brightness or change the volume or pause the playback. There's no globe key shortcut for that. You have to use the UI. You have to take your hands off the keyboard.

I don't understand it, but I feel like that's inevitable now that they've created that globe key. And also, between the globe key and the command key, you have the floating menu thing, which used to be like a quick reference card, and now it's more like a Mac menu bar. And that's another sign of where they're going. I feel like this release, a lot of this stuff is like scraps where you're

like, oh yes, yes. I'm so hungry that I, I want this scrap of a feature that is not great, but it's, it's so much better than we had before. I'm happy with it, but it feels like behind the scenes, Apple knows where it's going with this. Now it's not all there yet at all, but it feels like it's part of a plan to go somewhere else. And I hope that's true because I don't know why you would build all of these sort of things and not stitch them together down the road. But, you know, I, but in other ways, I'm so dissatisfied with their lack of movement on this stuff that, you know, I don't want to get my hopes up. Anything more on iOS 15? I don't know. I think we covered a lot. You know, there's a lot to get my hopes up anything more on ios 15 i don't know i think we

covered a lot you know there's a lot there there's a lot more for for something that you know maybe we got a little bored of it too right because it comes out in june i think there's some malaise over the summer but like there's a lot of good stuff in there and i think that people are going to like a lot of the stuff when they get to it and then they may also hate that that photos feature that mike hates yeah but it will pick up as i said like it picks up again uh i'm like super excited to try out all of the uh the apps yeah all the apps make it make a big difference um because like i said with focus mode once you get that slack app which our discord says is out now came just came out that slack update you know you get all your messaging updates

that support focus mode and you connect it all together. And now you've got much more control over your messages from people across all sorts of different platforms, which is really nice. Because then you just pick the contact and say, this person gets through and it doesn't matter what app they use,

they get through and everybody else doesn't when I'm in this focus mode. And that's a good thing. So the apps are going to be key there. I look forward to setting up Jason-only mode. Yeah, I've got, you know, mic mode is coming. This episode is brought to you by DoorDash. Look, you're looking for Chinese tonight.

Maybe your flatmate wants pizza. Somebody else, a craving for Oreo. It doesn't matter because everything is available with DoorDash because DoorDash connects you with the restaurants that you love right now and brings that food right to your door. And hey, you can also get your grocery essentials that you need with DoorDash to get drinks, snacks, other household items delivered to you in under an hour. And ordering all this stuff is so easy. You just open the DoorDash app, you choose what you want from where you want it,

and your items will be left safely outside your door with the contactless delivery drop-off setting that they have. They have over 300,000 partners spread across the US, Puerto Rico, Canada, Australia, and you can also support your neighborhood go-tos as well. You can choose from your favorite national restaurant chains as well. So they've got everything there. If you want to get chipotle cheesecake factory no matter what you want you can go get it on doordash jason can you tell me something that you love about doordash

i like the fact that when you're miserable and don't have any food in the house and need to have dinner um that one thing you can do is go to the store but another thing you could do is just order it on doordash uh and they bring it to your. So that happened for my son's birthday, as I've mentioned before, I think that we, my, oh, it was right before my son's birthday. And I was thinking about his favorite burger place that we usually take him on his birthday. And my wife was going out with friends over to a friend's house. And he and I were like, well, what are we going to do about dinner? And I thought, oh, your favorite burger place. And so DoorDash brought his favorite burger to our house. And I also got one that I enjoyed, but it was his favorite.

And it was a fun little father-son moment enabled by DoorDash. So that was fun and easy. And we didn't have to leave the house. For a limited time, listeners, this show can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order of $15 or more just download the DoorDash app and enter the code upgrade 2021 in the US or upgrade AUS in Australia that's 25% off up to $10 in value and zero delivery fees on your first order just download the DoorDash app from the app store use the code upgrade 2021 for the us upgrade aus for australia one last time upgrade

2021 for the us upgrade aus for australia and you will get yourself 25 off your first order with doordash subject to change terms apply our thanks to doordash for their support of this show and relay fm let's do a couple of hashtag ask upgrade questions and we will finish out today's bumper episode. First one comes from Mark. Do you still, I thought this was interesting for iPhone upgraders, do you still sync or backup your phone with a cable to your Mac?

I haven't done this in ages. iCloud all the way for me now. That's how I do it. It tends to work pretty well. I'll let you know next week how it goes. I did see that they've added some stuff in iOS 15 for that whole process. So I will be, like many of you, I'm sure, we'll be going through it. So maybe we could talk about it last week.

We love to talk about upgrading. Yeah, one of my favorite episodes ever we did was talking about the upgrade experience, which has gotten a lot better. Again, not the upgrade experience that is the experience of listening to the upgrade podcast, but the experience of upgrading an Apple product. Just want to be clear about that. It is a lot better than it used to be when we did that episode. They have, I'm not saying they listened to us. I think it was more like we observed just how bad it was. And they also observed just how bad it was and it's better now. And it is better in iOS 15. There's a lot of really nice things about it.

In fact, now when you wipe your device in iOS 15, it actually prompts you and says, would you like me to back this up first? And you can set it to transfer and do the transfer. And they're really doing a much better job because the key is the day you get your new iPhone should be a good day, not a frustrating day, right? Like that is the key. And it used to be super frustrating. Dan Morin was telling me that people on the iPhone upgrade program, they now have like a – they can get a transferable like eSIM or something. So they're even making the carrier SIM process easier as time goes on. I like it.

So we'll see how it goes when there are new iPhones in our hands. I expect that there will probably be new iPhones in both of our hands next week. So look forward to it. I don't know if it's because I've done something or if Apple knows I bought a new phone, but my settings right now say, get ready for your new phone. Use iCloud to move your apps and data to your new phone, but my settings right now say, get ready for your new phone. Use iCloud to move your apps and data to your new phone. They know. Do they actually

know? Because I wasn't sure, and I was like, oh, hello. I don't know if I've done something or if they're just trying to prepare me, but that's a really interesting and weird thing to find in the settings app. Rajiv asks, do you think apple will remove product

numbers first from the iphone or from ios i don't think apple's going to be removing product numbers from the iphone anytime soon but i think they'll do it before they do ios like i feel like ios is always going to be numbered because you need a version number and people care less about software version numbers than hardware version numbers apple might do something weird where they you know do different numbers and different names and reset the numbers at some point but um you know they could eventually call it like ios blah blah blah right like they do with mac os yeah but they'll still be a number there and i think they won't i think it's more likely that mac os just gets numbered at some point instead of having a name so but either way um i think this is one of those

infinite time scale arguments that may be a very long time but i would say the iphone first james thompson's posted in the discord chat that he also sees the transfer or reset iphone thing in the settings it's just like in the top level of the settings. And like, I'm happy that it's there, but it's also weird. It's still weird to see stuff like that. Like, hang on phone. How do you know you're being replaced? Are you going to start freaking out on me now?

Poor phone. The idea there, yeah. I mean, the idea there is that you can just erase your phone, but it's also letting you get ready to transfer. It's nice. It's clever. And final question that comes from Kim. Is's nice. It's clever. And final question

that comes from Kim. Is the iPhone 13 mini's camera better than the iPhone 11 Pro camera? So I did a bit of research for this one, Jason. And I picked out a selection of things that are different. And it's going to be up to

Kim to decide if they think this is better. Because, you know, the camera is in the eye of the beholder and all that. The Mini has no telephoto lens. So if a telephoto lens is important to you, the 11 Pro has the win on that. The iPhone Mini has Dolby Vision HDR and will also have cinematic mode. So if good quality video is something you want, then great. And also has

sensor shift optical image stabilization that was new with the 13 and 13 mini this time around. So I mean the lenses may also be better, but I'm not really the person I don't know how to judge that kind of stuff, you know? I think the low light performance is better coming from the iphone 11 pro to the 13 um so that

would be in the mix there um and the image single processor is probably better too um so there is there's a bit there i think the i think your screen display is a lot, is brighter too, which is good for looking back at those photos. But in terms of the cameras, yeah, I think the big change is it's probably a little bit better, but not a lot. And you do lose the telephoto lens, but you do gain some of these other modes, including night mode, time-lapse, and you get the sensor shift, optical image stabilization, and photographic styles.

Yeah, I feel like the answer to this is like, yes, with the asterisk of you do lose one dedicated lens, but you're losing your telephoto lens. But everything else is better, so it's probably worth it. Maybe. If you'd like to send in a question for a future episode, then you can send out a tweet with the hashtag AskUpgrade or use question mark AskUpgrade in the RelayFM members Discord that you could also get access to-free episodes of Upgrade every single week and or time we publish an episode. So if there is an extra episode, you get a longer one there too. So go

to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up. I'd like to thank everybody that has. I'd also like to thank DoorDash and Squarespace and LinkedIn Jobs for their support of this week's episode. And of course, thank you for listening. If you want to go and read some wonderful coverage of everything that Apple's up to at the moment, always go to sixcolors.com. It's prime location, prime destination. And you can also find Jason online. He's at Jason now, J-S-N-E-L-L.

I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. And we'll be back next week, probably with... A bunch of new hardware. ...iPad and iPhone review-y type episodes. So that's going to be a big bumper one next one too. So look out for that. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell.

Goodbye, Mike Hurley.