Upgrade - 412: Justin, Don't Do It

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

This week we consider Stage Manager and how it works, as well as how Apple has chosen to communicate its decision-making. Also, Apple makes a surprising deal with Major League Soccer, Myke decides that an iPad Studio and MacBook Studio sound like great new products, and we dare to ask the question: what if they made a laptop entirely out of legacy nodes?

From RelayFM, this is Upgrade, episode 412. Today's show is brought to you by Sourcegraph, Squarespace, and Magic Lasso Adblock. My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Hi, Mike Hurley. How are you? I'm good. You know why? You're home? Well, I'm home and it is the...

Summer of Fun! Still, it feels so good to be able to do with like about 60% lung capacity. So it was just a quick update about Mike Hurley. I am not... I'm COVID free. I no longer have coronavirus. I tested negative on the day that we traveled home. But I am still suffering with symptoms.

Still symptomatic. Yeah, so I'm working on that with doctors and all that kind of stuff because I'm still suffering, which is a shame. That summer of fun actually really hurt my chest. I shouldn't have done that. Now I realize that was bad for me.

Well, it hurt me a little bit too. I have a rib injury so yes, it also hurt me. Oh God, yeah. This summer of fun is treacherous. Yeah, but we gotta do it. That's what makes it fun, I guess. I have a hashtag snail talk question for you. It comes from Logan. Logan wants to know

do you move the cursor on your iPhone when typing by either holding on the space bar and you know moving it around with the swiping or by using the magnifier in the text body area you know like pressing and holding and seeing the little magnifier pop up what do you do? I tap and hold on the space bar

yep me too and I worked out why I was thinking about this a little magnifier pop up. What did you do? I tap and hold on the space bar. Yep, me too. And I worked out why I was thinking about this because this question, I had a little pause in my brain and the reason was they took away the magnifier for a while. Do you remember that? And they brought it back.

So I'm an iPad primary, not an iPhone primary. So I'm mostly doing the two finger down on the keyboard thing. But on my phone, it's definitely that spacebar thing. Yeah, I think they did take it away and then bring it back. The little loop and all of that. And the magnifier is better now than it's

ever been. It looks nicer, it works better, but I just got so used to not doing it that I don't do it anymore. And I've realized that on the ipad i tend to just tap around even though the magnifier exists it's uh it's also nice to see where the cursor is going whereas with the magnifier loop thing you have to your fingers over the actual text and you're looking through the magnifier to try and find where you need to be and it's yeah anyway that's that's my answer logan we're watching in real time as other

upgradians listening live in our members discord are also realizing the magnifier loop came back so like this is a thing that happened to me i was like hang on a minute and yeah it's there again i knew it but i'd forgotten it because there was a time when it didn't exist they brought it back but by that point i learned a new way of doing things like like many others and i do like the the cursor movement on the keyboard either on the ipad or the iphone better anyway to be honest yeah no it's good if you'd like to send in a snell talk question of your own to help open an episode just send out a tweet with the hashtag snell talk use question mark snail talk in the relay fm members discord oh it is better i totally i don't know if i've ever even seen this it's like oh this is one of those things it came back at some point i don't remember when it's not

important and we obviously knew it but by that point like we used it that one time oh yeah it is back and then just went back doing what we got used to but the magnifier is better i think it may have left during a beta period, but like it was a long period. And then maybe they brought it back. So I think it was like it left for a 0.0 and came back for a 0.1 or something. Oh yeah.

That's a good, yeah. That, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. To celebrate the summer of fun, you can upgrade your wardrobe.

Once again, we have a brand new upgrade, your wardrobe.com. Once again, exactly upgradeyourwardrobe.com once again. Exactly. I was going to get to that. Upgradeyourwardrobe.com. We have a new tee, the new Summer of Fun t-shirt celebrating the joys of summer, beaches, iPhones, and surf rock. And pineapples.

And pineapples, naturally. You can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com and you can find the brand new Summer of Fun t-shirt in a variety of colors we've got this year. It's a beautiful new design put together by our wonderful art consultant. Oh, that's a fun name I just gave. David Dooley is awesome. And we have been working on this design

for the last week or so. I basically said, hey, I like surf rock, which I do do big fan of the beach boys by the way jason there's a new uh beach but you maybe don't care about this there's a new beach boys album on apple music that has the first spatial audio mixes of beach boy songs uh-huh oh my god so good yeah i'm happy for you yeah you should be because i love it honestly i listen to some songs got tears in my eyes because see we're friends and so and so we don't talk about the beach boys much because i don't like them i love i know you love them love them and so i'm happy for you for most of my life

and there were like like i had the experience i've had with some spatial audio where it's like oh that's the thing i didn't know was in this song so that was very a very emotional time for me but nevertheless uh so we're we have the new t-shirt the new summer fun t-shirt for 2022 we're bringing back last year's summer fun t-shirt because it was such a hit we're also bringing back the original dongle town tees including the return of the orange option which we haven't brought back for a while uh primarily the orange is back because my orange is worn out and i want another one so yeah but you see it's also an endorsement you love that orange so i love that orange t-shirt i want it out and i want a new one these all will

all be available until july 13th so we've got a few weeks but go and get the nail at upgradeyourwardrobe.com. It's good. I'm very happy with David's design. We saw the original and we were laughing about it. There was some extra stuff. It's simplified now. There was some extra stuff. I think in one version, there were some AirPods that were flying in the air

like seagulls or something. It was a little too much. But this is, yeah the iphone is a surf board too it's so good so good yeah and i love it you use it to surf the internet mike you use your iphone to surf the net the yellow on green is the is the is the primary color for this one yeah i think yeah that's that's go ducks yeah looks great i told my i showed it to my daughter and she said she said go ducks i said yeah i suppose it is right there is a red shirt um and if you wear it i recommend that you take off that red shirt so this is the thing this is a funny

behind the scenes thing usually jason arranges the the work of cotton bureau so picks the colors i have like a hand in the colors, but Jason will primarily pick the colors. But I took it this time because Jason was away, which is also why the episode is a day late this week. Yeah, it's a three-day weekend. And I took it because some are fun. Yeah, exactly.

And when we were talking, when I was talking with our wonderful friends over at Cotton Bureau, they could show me some options. I was like, oh, I like the red one. And when I said to Jason, here's our colors, he's like, no. I was like, yep, right this is what happens so there is a red shirt as zach says i am the colors are right now you can put it you can put it on and then you go to the beach and

then what do you do take off that red shirt that's what you do upgrade your wardrobe.com the macbook pro with m2 is available to order right now it is can you feel that m2 macbook pro energy out there whoa the speed the the everybody's talking about this laptop because it's exactly like it was before except with a different chip inside so different but not that different just Just a little different. The reason I wanted to bring this up because I am not really particularly interested in this computer as we've spoken about in past episodes,

but some models are already backordered until August. Especially anything with the 24 gigabyte option of unified memory, they're just all backordered. Some of the standard models are more readily available. I just wondered when it comes to the MacBook Air, do you think we're going to end up with a similar result, like with them being really hard to get? Or do you think

that maybe they're sacrificing some of the MacBook Air to make sure they have more stock available of the MacBook Pro to make sure they have more stock available than MacBook Air? stock available of the MacBook Pro to make sure they have more stock available than MacBook Air? I mean, I don't know. I wish I had a better insight into this aspect of Apple's business, but my guess is that they're making MacBook Airs and stocking them. My guess is that there will still be supply chain-based constraints, right? There'll still be supply limitations, but I think they know how popular the MacBook Air is going to to be they're probably and this is the thing about configurations right like if you want a custom configuration that they have not anticipated even if they anticipate like every possible configuration and make a certain amount and try to anticipate which are the more

popular ones and which are the less popular ones. The fact is that it's going to be harder ultimately to get one of those, I think, because until the supply chain is moving smoothly, if you have a very specific custom order and they don't have it as something they pre-made, then you're going to have to get in line and you're going to have to wait, which is why I suspect even with the Air, the base configuration, the standard configs that they've got are going to be much more available and the customs are going to be harder to come by. And I think that that's going to be that way for a while,

even if they are, which I suspect they are, spending a month and then probably the last month or two making as many MacBook Airs as they can so they can ship them and have them for sale right it's not like it's all built to order where like every order comes in and then they build a MacBook Air they like with the iPhone at least right they make a bunch in advance they make a lot of them and so that they can ship them and fulfill all that demand uh at the very beginning of the process I imagine they're trying to do some of that with MacBook Air but we'll'll still see places. It's going to be like this one where,

oh, if you get the base model or some very specific configs, it's like, yeah, you can get that. And then you try a different one and it's like, oh no, that's going to take a while. It's because they didn't make that one and they're going to have to make it special for you or they didn't make very many of that config. And so they're already running out

and it's going to be a little while. I think that that's just how it's going to be um in the supply chain for a while i think you're completely right i i do like the personal conspiracy theory that they are more like where possible like they would be constraining the macbook pro more for the macbook air like i think that would be logical logical. Like, if the issues they were finding were the parts, right? Like, those specific parts that they share, I could imagine they would allocate more to the Air, but there could be a small legacy node transistor on the MacBook Air that, you know what I mean?

And it's just like, it doesn't even matter. Like, maybe they're swimming in M2 chips, but you never know. Well, also, I mean, the M m2 air design although it's been delayed a lot like you you'd think they might like try to make as little of use of the legacy nodes as possible in that model whereas this macbook pro it's like its own legacy exactly it's like all old parts um but yeah who knows though maybe like they have a million touch bars you know what i mean they're just sitting there forever oh i'm sure that that's the case and you know their point

and although it's kind of amazing to think about this that that 13 inch macbook pro is the second best-selling laptop model in the world that's what they said that's what they say um and we've got the reasons why right that we've talked about like probably that it's the base model of a pro line is the biggest driver for it it's just like we we only buy MacBook Pros in our business and this is the cheapest one. So we buy it and it's like, it's not really a MacBook Pro. And they're like, no, no, no, it's a MacBook Pro. So they, even so they probably have a pretty good idea of what the demand is for this thing versus the demand for the MacBook Air. And I have planned accordingly. Now they could be wrong, but I think that if you're inside Apple, you've got very precise sales information about

how these models sell now and how they've sold historically. And they use that, I'm sure, to prioritize what they're building in the factories. But my guess would be that there'll be more demand for the Air because it looks new and it is the number one selling laptop, not number two. So there's two reasons to make more MacBook Airs. But I'm sure that would be

one of Tim Cook's protégés, protégés or whatever, like someone in that part of Apple who gets this stuff built, who gets to look at all those sales figures and make those guesses. It's an interesting job. So we'll see how it works. But my guess is that the MacBook Air will not be as shockingly constrained, but that there will still be constraints. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Sourcegraph. So you've hired a brilliant developer. That's great. But now you have to get them onboarded. If your company's growing, onboarding new developers will

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and they'll know that you heard about them from us. Our thanks to Sourcegraph for their support of this show and RelayFM. So, Stage Manager. Stage Manager! I kind of don't want to talk about this, to be honest. We touched on it a little bit in our last episode, which to

me, right now, Jason, feels like 400 years ago. It was, in fact, nine days ago. I didn't even talk about the fact that we missed our connecting flight home and had to spend an extra day in Dallas. That also happened to us. So that's like, you know,

I've been in so many places and so many planes and I've had so much happen to me in that time period. It feels like a really, really long time ago. Because of the fact I was delayed, I missed the last episode of Connected where Federico and Stephen

went through this discussion at length. So we're not going to bother giving a primer on why we're talking about Stage Manager and M1 iPads. Like if you want the whole history and haven't somehow caught it through osmosis over the last couple of weeks, go and listen to episode 402 of Connected. But I think you had some more thoughts

that you wanted to go through today because to be honest, the situation keeps like changing and growing and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, we'll keep it short because on the one hand, I want to say I totally sympathize with people who bought an iPad Pro

in the last couple of generations and are mad that this feature doesn't work on their iPad Pro. I'm one of those people. I'm selling to iPad Pros now because they are honestly useless to me going forward. And I now have an iPad Air that's going to replace both of them

until Apple releases an iPad Pro that I'm more interested in. So, and my sympathy is legitimate and it is also the sympathy that I have for anybody who has a product that they bought and then becomes obsolete or doesn't have a feature that they want that and they're on the outside looking in right like that sucks we've all been there we've all done that you buy technology you spend a lot of money and then the world moves on and whether it's a

faster processor or new software feature and you don't get it and you're sad right like my my speaking of supply chain constraints my mac studio is finally showing up next week um and and i'm like okay wait what wait i'm still using the apple loaner mac studio because i've been waiting for my mac studio to show up you got yours no no no i got my display but not my mac studio oh that's that was way back ordered so i can finally have my mac studio that i bought with my own money um and i i laughed when apple said the the mac studio alone period expires in september i was like september that's ridiculous and now i'm like oh god i hope my mac studio comes in time anyway it's coming um so and they've announced the m2 right i'm like oh you know it's an look it in time. Anyway, it's coming. So, and they've announced the M2, right?

I'm like, oh, you know, it's an, look, it's an M1 Pro. It's going to be okay. But there's still that part of me that's like, look, I can already feel my product aging and I haven't even gotten it yet. Right? Like, so I really understand the frustration of it. However, this is also the way it works, right? This is how it works.

For things to move forward, you do have to have things advance, things get left behind. What's bothered me about this story is the parsing of very specific Apple statements that are made by people who are trying to do some sort of a gotcha. It's like, it reminded me of like amateur detectives

in a detective story, like, you know, only stage manager in the building kind of thing of like, we're figuring this out. We, aha, but he said, no, there was no swap, but there is no swap on this one and they need swap. And it's this whole thing. And so what I just wanted to say is, look, when it's an interview with an Apple

executive, or it's a quote furnished to somebody by an Apple executive, it's PR. It's PR. It's not testifying under oath. It's PR. It's spin. Now, if you're investigating this like it's a crime, you could say, aha, well, that means they're lying. It's like, well, it's PR. Yes. Is PR lying? Sometimes. It's certainly spin. But the truth is Apple doesn't want to reveal all the gory, messy details of what is going on behind the scenes. So they create these simple stories. So they say something like swap enables this feature or display.

External display support is an important part of this feature. And people go, Oh, but this, if you put them all together and line them up, it doesn't match logically. It's like, well, no, it's a story. They're trying to keep it simple. They're not giving you all the details because they don't want to talk to you about their internal development processes. So like the M1 Air 64 gig model, which I think is the one that you've got. Yep, I have that. You know, it is an M1, so it's got faster NAND and RAM and IO, right? So because it's an M1, fundamentally, the storage, the RAM, and the IO system itself are faster than previous chips. That's a thing you get with the m1 but it doesn't have a lot of ram so it doesn't do swap and the answer is you know my my understanding is

that the m1 air 64 is the barest of minimums that can support stage manager and that you may actually find using your air that there are things that you can't you may discover things you can't do i haven't found them but we were talking about this yeah i i have i have heard that there are things that that and performance issues that you might find but i don't know i honestly don't know that was just sort of a heard through the grapevine thing but my understanding is that the m1 air is sort of like minimum thing. Now, they chose to have it use Stage Manager because I think Apple, one of the things going on here is Apple wants product simplicity. And it's very easy to say, I know we talked about this last week,

it works on M1 iPads. That's like the easiest thing to say. And probably, and again, this is the stuff that Apple doesn't want to go into because they don't want to talk about the magic that happens behind the scenes right they're very proud of the magic trick that they do whenever they have a product uh released but they uh probably had to do extra work to get the 64 gig ipad air to work because it's it's it's a stretch but they probably did the extra work because they felt it was important to get that one in even though it's sort of a a grace period or something right it's like a little like doesn't really clear the bar but we're gonna fit it in and do the extra work because we don't want to say some m1 ipads support this so they did it well what about the previous ipad pro well Well, what about the previous iPad Pro?

Well, they don't have the same amount of RAM as the Air, except for the one that does, the one terabyte model. And as I think we said last week when we were in my backyard, there's a level of complexity there. What if they said, well, the previous model does support it, but only this one particular configuration. And if you got that, then you're good and otherwise not. That's complicated. But remember what I just said about the M1, even if it's got the same RAM as the iPad Air, the storage is slower, the RAM is slower, and the IO is slower. So it's got the same amount of RAM, but the A12Z is not the M1. Everything about those things that go into doing swap or go into doing, you know, keeping all this stuff on screen and having to be responsive is slower.

Could Apple have prioritized the A12Z one terabyte model for stage manager? It's like, maybe, but you can see the PR and communication benefits of saying all M ones are compatible. It makes it more complicated if you say well that last ipad pro supports it oh but not yours because you didn't buy the expensive one with one terabyte of storage so it doesn't it doesn't count like that's and also let's say

okay so that what if they say it's worth it to for the people who have that older model So that what if they say it's worth it to, for the people who have that older model, it's worth it. Let's just put a stage manager on that one. Well, how much work goes into getting that one to clear the bar? If they're already doing the work for the, the base model air to clear the bar, um, for one skew of an old model, like, is it worth it? Or would you, would you say that it's not worth going back that far and doing that extra work for a feature that I will point out needs a lot of development work this summer, right? It's not done.

It's clearly not done. So that's my thought about this is, you know, I appreciate everybody trying to keep Apple honest here. But the idea that they're lining up all these statements like it's PR, Apple's not going to tell you all the details because they don't want to talk about it. They want to give you just the highest level of storytelling about their decision-making, and they don't want to go down into the details. And while I understand that people who bought older hardware and wanted to work with the latest shiny thing. I get that you want that, but at some point you don't get it. And that's just the way the world works. And I think that what Apple chose here is obviously self-serving because that's what anybody in this situation does.

But I think that if you look at it, it makes logical sense. And I think that's all I have to say about that. Yeah. I wonder what will happen. I wonder. I mean, I expect maybe there is a possibility we'll get a new beta this week. That's what you would expect. I wonder if anything will change.

I wonder if it will appear on older models. I think I am of the opinion, the unpopular opinion, that I kind of hope that they just draw the line in it and focus on making it as good as it can be on the M1s and for all the iPads forward. I understand that if you have a 2020 iPad Pro,

which 12.9, which I do, right? As I said, like when I said it's useless to me like now i need i feel like the hardware that supports all the features because i need to understand all the features to be able to talk about them as we move forward um where hopefully we won't be talking about what stage manager works on but talking about how stage manager works again but like i have i have some real-time follow-up by the way that that will not preclude a bunch of people from emailing having heard the two minutes ago and not listen to the rest of this podcast. But maybe it'll stop somebody.

Zach is right. I was thinking about this while I was saying it. Zach in the Discord. The A12Z model, they all have 6 gigs of RAM. It's the A12X model that has only the high-end one has 6 gigs of RAM. So that's the path here is do we fit the A12X in? It's like, well, they've all got 6 gigs of RAM, but they've got the slower storage and they've got the slower memory

and they've got the slower IO. So do we try to support those? And then do we go back a step further and support the high-end model of the other one? How do we want to do that? And I'm sympathetic to the argument that it sure looks from the outside like the A12Z model could be as capable

as the low-end Air model. However, first off, M1 makes a difference. And two, where do you spend your time? And I think that's what you were getting at. And that's what I would say is this is a very ambitious feature and it needs work. ambitious feature and it needs work and if i had to choose between having it be good and having it be not as good but a little more compatible with one older model i think i choose it being good especially since it's never going to be great on the older model because the m1 is better at all of those things. So I would guess that they're going to prioritize things like adding keyboard shortcuts that they desperately need and better ways to manage Windows

because that's all the stuff that jumps out at me. But, you know, I think the answer will be in what apple does which is the one of the reasons that i find this undercurrent of the the detective story so frustrating is there's this behind the scenes there's this sense i get the whiff of this thing that is like apple's just doing this to make us buy a new iPad. Yeah. Which given Apple, I mean, Apple occasionally does do that. If I feel like with iPhone features, especially where it's like they withheld this feature because they want it to be a banner feature of the new thing. But most of the time, I think that Apple makes these features for technical reasons that you don't know and they don't want to tell you, but they just say this is the way it is. And, you know, I don't think it's a conspiracy to sell M1 iPads. I really don't. I think it's weighing

the decisions of, do we want to go back that far? And what's the benefit of going back that far versus a feature that desperately needs more work this summer? So if they feel that there is enough of a pr hit from lacking backward compatibility and it's not as much technical work as you would think to get the a12z version let's say up and running maybe they throw it in and say okay the a12z12Z, and it might be the A12Z works, but you only get three windows, right? Or something like that, right? It might be a- Or you can't plug it into a display. Well, certainly that, right? It would be something that's limited. And then they would say, is it worth us doing this? And if they do it, that's why. It's because it turns out the cost is not so great. And the cost to them in of of user anger is greater than they thought um so i

i'm not saying it's impossible but um i'll also point out that remember when they released the m1 ipad last year and everybody said well why are they releasing such a powerful computer and not having any features that are m1 features and this is what they did and now everybody's angry about it this is the thing for me i am i was in that camp right of like it sure feels like that this is pointless and so now they're saying hey it does this i'll say okay right like this is a bit of a monkey's paw situation but i'll take it right because ultimately i want to see the ipad platform push forward if it means they have to draw a line in the sand and unfortunately some people get left behind look I feel for you

I had to spend more of my money to try and use this feature so I am in that club along with all of you and I did it maybe you don't want to do it and I understand that but I kind of feel like I need to do it I wouldn't have upgraded my iPads otherwise like I really wouldn't have so if that is one of the reasons Apple's

doing it then it worked for me right but like all I care about is that this platform should be moved forward, should continue to get more powerful features. This is exactly the kind of thing that I was looking for and was wanting. If they're telling me it needs to be an M1 machine to support it, then I'm just going to wash my hands of it and say, fine, right? And that's just the way I'm going to roll with it. Would I like to see them do something where they say like, alright, we can bring this version to it, but it's not going to affect the development, you know, that kind of thing? Even better.

Yeah. And this is, you know, again, I understand, just go back to what I said at the beginning to wrap this up. I understand the disappointment. However, creating a conspiracy theory and doing detective work to prove that you were wronged and that Apple is lying and they're doing this all in order to withhold a feature that you maybe want, maybe don't want. I don't know.

For the computer that you bought previously. I don't know. That's where my sympathy begins to ebb away. It's like, you know, it happens. It sucks. There are some good technical reasons for it. I don't think this is a conspiracy. It's always great when Apple supports older hardware.

But I also like the fact that Apple put an M1 in the iPad, which is this incredibly powerful thing that they have in the Mac. And, oh, look, it turns out that the M1 in the iPad has some real benefits in terms of what it can do. That seems pretty reasonable to me. So anyway, and I have one little tiny footnote about Stage Manager that isn't about this, which is, but it's related, which is I use Stage Manager on the Mac a little bit, and it just works. And I actually think that it might be viable for some people as a way to group windows together and switch between sort of different window groups while having it all kind of be within sight. I think that there's a lot of advantages to that approach that I think are very interesting. But what it really does is expose how it's just using the max existing windowing system and window metaphor that we've had for

ever right and then you switch among the windows whereas on the ipad they had to invent everything and it just exposes that like the ipad doesn't have a sophisticated windowing system underneath stage manager it just has a few little things that have been in bits and bobs here and there for the last couple of years. And that I think is actually the thing that needs the most help on the new iPadOS version is not stage manager per se, but like window management, because now you've got windows, but like hitting the little three dot thing and having it work right or being able to hit command w to close a window it's like it's just none none of it is there and that's the problem yeah and that that broke my brain like i plugged it into my thunderbolt

display a couple of things happen one my mouse and keyboard didn't work which is funny to me that this might be a thunderbolt versus usbc problem with the ipad air potentially or maybe it's a bug i don't know like i want to do more testing with it but i found that funny but i was one i mean obviously it was like wild like seeing thing it just because it looks looked like it was a mac it was very confusing to me like you know everybody has that feeling at first yeah Yeah, it's disconcerting. But that was where I was really missing the keyboard shortcuts. Like that Command W should do something.

It should do something, you know? So that's my kind of galaxy brain take on Center Stage right now is that, or Stage Manager, is that I knew I would do that. Stage Manager as a concept, I'm actually thinking it's okay. I actually think- Jason, I am tempted to install the Mac OS beta on a machine. Like at some point during the process, I'm going to do it because I am desperate to try stage manager on a Mac

because I genuinely, like the more I use it on my iPad, the more I'm like where I really personally want this is on the Mac. Like for me, this is actually where I want it. And if you use it in both places, you will discover what I discovered, which is, oh, there's the concept of Stage Manager and then there's window management.

And Stage Manager is groups of windows that you are working on together and they go and they turn on and off in sets. That's what excites me. Not a bad idea. I don't know if I'll use it long term or not, but I'm like, oh, that's what excites me. Not a bad idea. I don't know if I'll use it long-term or not, but I'm like, oh,

I can see how this actually makes some sort of sense. And, and then I just move the windows around and then I go over to the iPad on an external display and I try to do the same thing. And it is, I feel like I am waiting in molasses. And the reason is not stage manager. It's windowing it's keyboard shortcuts and dragging windows around and, you know, minimizing or choosing how things get in and out.

And that is where it all kind of breaks down, especially on the iPad. So I hope they spend the summer fruitfully fixing window management stuff on the iPad. Because I feel like it's really actually like close to being good. And it's developer beta one. So I'm encouraged, but it's close to being good. They just need to put in the rest of the work. This episode is brought to you by Magic Lasso Adblock. Do you want the experience? Do you want to experience twice as fast load times in Safari on your iPhone, iPad and Mac, then download Magic Lasso Adblock, the ad blocker designed for you. It's easy to set up, blocks all YouTube ads,

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upgrade fm the link will be in the show notes our thanks to magic lasso adblock for their support of this show and relay fm apple have struck a 10-year deal for worldwide streaming rights to major league soccer yep okay then right when this news broke i was like there was a bunch of things we were expecting them to do sports wise this is i think no not the one we expected them to know it is for those who do not follow this and have not heard this news let me just explain what happened apple and major league soccer which is the top flight uh soccer league football for the and have not heard this news, let me just explain what happened. Apple and Major League Soccer, which is the top flight soccer league football for the rest of the world in North America, or well, it's not even in the US and Canada. Liga MX in Mexico is a better league, but probably.

But anyway, US and Canada, MLS is it, right? So it's not a top tier league in the world, MLS is it right so it's not a top tier league in the world nor is it it is in fact the only or one of the major sports leagues in America that has is not the best at what it does in the world right it's very much not

I will say just as a note on that hello I'm from I'm not in America hello mate I keep hearing people mention this one of the things that's funny to me about this is like NFL and baseball only exist really in America. Yes, it's true. I've been hearing people like Ben Thompson and John Gruber talk about this. I'm like, American sports are the most popular sports.

And it's like, okay. You only have them there. First off, I'll only give you NFL there because baseball is actually very popular in Japan and Korea and the Caribbean. Nevertheless. And Mexico. Right. But everything you're saying. Europeans are really quick to say baseball is just in America, and it is not.

But the best players from all over the world play in Major League Baseball. And for hockey and basketball, it is absolutely the case that you can play in your league in France or Slovenia or Russia or wherever you want. But if you're really good at it, you play in America in the NBA and the NHL. But then there's MLS and it's like, is this the best in the world? I think it's actually a problem with American audiences. It's actually why the Premier League does so well on TV. It does better on TV than MLS in America, because it's the best in the world and people like to see the best in the world play the game. That said, MLS actually has been really successful and they are growing and their attendance is very good. So it is a real thing, but it's not that big a thing.

And it's also got an ownership system where it's sort of centralized. And so Apple was able to basically walk over to MLS and say, we would like to buy all of your television rights for 10 years. Which is just like such a ball of move, really. Yeah. And it's like, we'll guarantee you $2.5 billion over the 10 years. And they're like, okay, here it is. And so what they got is not what we've heard about sports rights in the past. All the sports rights in the past are, oh, they're going to do baseball games on Fridays.

Or they're going to do basketball games on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Or select holidays. Or we're going to get these four games over the year. And you'll have to subscribe to Amazon Prime to get them. Right, right. Well, Amazon Prime is going to do the NFL in the fall, and it's going to be Thursday night games, right? Okay, that's not what's happening here. This is every game.

Apple's writing MLS a check. MLS is going to produce the broadcasts. They're all going to be on Apple TV+. So you can watch any game from any team. That's just going to be baked right can watch any game from any team. That's just going to be, it's going to be baked right in. Any game from any team. It is replacing all regional broadcasting. So if you have a local TV broadcast of your MLS team, it's gone. It will be a national broadcast. So they're going to turn it into more something like the NFL

where everything is a national game. They're all going to be international because this will be worldwide. And then the biggest one is, although there will still be linear rights. So what that means is that MLS will be able to do a Wednesday night game on ESPN2 or something like that. They can do that. And a Saturday game on Fox Sports 1 or something like that.

Those games will still be on the Apple TV thing because there are no blackouts, which is a huge thing for sports. No blackouts. Apple is the primary delivery of this entire thing. And so starting next year, this is how you will watch TV for a decade if you want to watch mls games on tv it will be via this thing now that's fascinating because this is an experiment in a way it's potentially looking at what the future of sports on tv will be which is this kind of thing that's a league driven package that is available for streaming um the other thing that is interesting about this is the way it's structured. And those

of us who have closely observed Apple TV, as your upstream segment has for many, many years, will know Apple does this channels thing, just like Amazon, where you can subscribe to Paramount Plus inside the TV app. Well, this thing is going to be structured like that. It's going to be an MLS thing inside the TV app, which means you don't get this if you're an Apple TV Plus subscriber. You have to pay to get the MLS package. Here's a hilarious little bit. Unless you're a season ticket holder to an MLS team, in which case you get it for free. I think that's awesome, by the way. I think so too.

That's such a sweet little arrangement. Yeah. So if you're a loyal fan, you just get it. What I like about that that it kind of feels like to me this was a negotiation like it wasn't one party you steamrolled the other because it seemed like apple got things they wanted and mls got things they wanted because that feels very much like a major league soccer wanting to like give a treat to their season ticket holders which apple wouldn't care about right like you know so yeah and it uses and it builds it's all kind of part of this the same story so uh they will so

it'll be an add-on thing they will also make some games available for free on for apple tv plus subscribers and some games will be available to everyone so it's going to be this it's an interesting approach like how do you do discovery of soccer broadcasts everyone. So it's going to be this, it's an interesting approach. Like how do you do discovery of soccer broadcasts on Apple TV? It's a little like the free Friday night baseball where it's sort of like, well, there will be a free game.

Major League Baseball does this with their package too. You can buy every out of market game, but there's like a free game of the day. And that's what this will be. There'll be like a free game and then there'll be a few more free games on Apple TV Plus. But to get the whole thing, you got to buy the package. You got to buy that deal.

And this is intriguing for us as people who talk about this because we've been talking about the NFL Sunday ticket rumor that Apple is going to get NFL Sunday ticket, which is all out of market NFL games for next year. Not this fall, but for next year. is all out of market NFL games for next year, not this fall, but for next year. And this is undoubtedly how they will do it, which is it will be an Apple TV channel, essentially, so that they can charge you a separate price. And then there'll probably be some stuff that they give to TV Plus subscribers, maybe the Red Zone channel or something like that. But like, if you want all the games, you will have to pay. And then they'll use their channels architecture which is i i am 99 sure and this is just a guess

but like i'm 99 sure that's all this is is it's like their own private apple tv channel for this purpose and which is actually kind of brilliant and because it's all set up you you the whole thing is set up you buy it it's integrated the app. And that also means that any other device that's got the Apple TV app on it, TVs and Roku sticks and anything else, they all just get this because it's part of the Apple TV app. I think this is awesome. I think this is probably the beginning of a couple of things, right?

This is Apple, I think, continuing to level up what they're able to do when it comes to content. Oh, by the way, I've just realized, I think this gets me a point in the draft that we've got for the next 100 episodes. Oh, nice. I said more live. Oh, I said outside of sports though, right?

I think, nevermind. But anyway, it's still to me like apple continuing to flex what they can do with live content because that in general could be a bunch of different things this is more live content it's more sports it's going to probably be a bigger sustained audience i would expect than the potentially the random games they throw out right like of baseball like probably the baseball gets a larger audience than any single mls game but they have to keep this as a consistent experience for potentially multiple concurrent games i don't know if that happens in major

league soccer but i expect it probably could right maybe more than one game at a time i think all these games are happening in two windows on on wednesdays and sundays or something like that wednesdays and saturdays so it's it's yeah they're going to have multiple games going at once which is going to be interesting for them um some options there too that i would like them to explore that they haven't yet i know one of my complaints about apple tv and the baseball stuff especially is that they're not leveraging the fact that they are entirely app based and therefore they can do software things. Like if you've got a bunch of games happening at once,

I should be able to put two of them in a two-up or four of them in a four-up. My Fubo TV app does that. And that's a sports-focused streaming service. But like Apple should be able to do that too. It's actually a great way to show off the Apple TV hardware, especially. to do that too. It's actually a great way to show off the Apple TV hardware, especially. So there's a lot of potential for them to do other stuff with sports. And yeah, it's interesting to see how this plays out because it is, like I said, an experiment that could potentially lead to other, one, to other deals that Apple could make, but also as a way for other leagues to look at this.

The baseball commissioner, Rob Manfred, made a comment last week where he basically said, we understand sports rights are complicated. Regional sports networks are an important revenue source. But he actually said, we also keep talking about an MLB product that is, also keep talking about an MLB product that is you buy this product and you get your local team for cord cutters, essentially. And there is one regional sports network in America, the New England Sports Network, that just announced that they're going to do that. If you're not on cable and you want the Red Sox or the Bruins, you can pay them and you just get it. So I think there will be a lot of people watching what this Apple deal looks like. The other thing that I wanted to mention, just as an aside, one of my criticisms of Apple's baseball broadcasts is that they don't

offer home and away radio broadcasts as an alternate audio stream. My understanding is that the MLS deal includes that in the package. If you want to watch your local team and you want local announcers instead of their national announcers that they're going to have, you will be able, my understanding is, to have your local radio audio put over the video of the game and if they can pull that off i think that's great because again it's a good use of this software and streaming technology that we've got that there doesn't need to just be one video stream there doesn't need to be just one audio stream you could customize it so the fans of the portland timbers get an excited announcer who's really excited when the Timbers score instead of a sort of dispassionate national announcer who's got to be objective because the Portland Timbers fans are listening, but so are the Columbus Crew fans, right? I pulled out some MLS teams there. Anyway, it's interesting to see Apple wrote a check or will write a series of big checks. Oh, and one last point. It's a guarantee of $250 million a year. It's actually a rev share.

So we don't know what the terms of the rev share are, but above a certain amount of success for this product, the MLS and Apple will make money beyond that. So Apple, if it's wildly successful, everybody wins basically. So it's in everyone's interest right like yeah you know i could imagine i mean and if they don't this would be wild apple should make a mls version of drive to survive or whatever right they already have one of these about uh surfing which i haven't watched yet but it's made by the same company that made drive to survive right because the idea with watched yet, but it's made by the same company that made Drive to Survive. Right. Because the idea with Drive to Survive is it's a Netflix documentary series about Formula

One that has driven interest in the actual Formula One races. Massive interest. And so how do you get people interested in American soccer? One way would be to do programming that makes you really interested in the people and the stories and all of that. Yeah. And so then it's like, because then at at that point like i'm sure that revenue share is either 50 50 or apple gets more of it right because they're giving so much in a guarantee they will probably take the lion's share

of the revenue i don't know that's how a guarantee works right interesting yeah interesting uh deal all around and for so many reasons right for apple for sports for the future even if you're not interested in sports per se like for the future of streaming it's a really interesting deal because um it one of the things holding people to cable in the u.s is regional sports networks and that's why a lot of money has been spent by regional sports networks on sports rights. But we are getting toward this tipping point where one, people like Apple will just come in and say, well, I can write a big check too. Like they could, I can do that too. And also the owners start to think, we're missing out. We're missing out on the future. And we could be closing ourselves off. If everybody under a certain age doesn't have cable, and you need cable to watch a baseball game, guess what? Nobody under a certain age is ever going to watch a baseball game. That's bad. That's bad. So you need to find a way to address it.

That's bad. So you need to find a way to address it. Rumor roundup, Jason Snell. Pew pew. So last week there was... Those were revolvers and not lasers? I don't know. Yeah, we got to work that out. All right, okay.

Yeehaw, partner. Last week there was a rumor first reported by Ross Young that there was a 14.1 inch iPad coming and it was expected to have a mini LED display with ProMotion. A couple of days later, Young revised the report stating that it will not in fact have mini LED, leading people to believe that this would be a 14.1 inch base level iPad. I cannot get my head around what is going on here yeah yeah well i think okay so what would it be if it's not an ipad pro what would you call it would it be ipad would it be

ipad air it's awfully big to be an air um which which leads me to lead into your big grand conspiracy theory which is essentially studio all the things yeah ipad studio like this was this came into my mind when listening to connected last week and federico was talking about just the idea of an ipad studio and then i think this rumor came out afterwards and everyone's like well if it's not an ipad pro surely it's a base model ipad was like well but no that doesn't make any sense right to have a 14.1 inch product called ipad and neat nor is it like because there's also this part of the report where ross ross young's talking about how like oh you know it might actually be as cheap to make a 14.1 inch screen than a 10 inch screen in the future but i will just state we'll come back to this one i'll

just do the next report from nine to fiveMac that suggests that from their reporting, that there is a new update coming to the base level iPad. So the base level iPad is not going away at its current size, right? They're not getting rid of it and replacing it with a 14 inch iPad, which wouldn't make any sense. but anyway this base model upgrade will have an A14 5G and USB-C which is interesting but also I think the sign of the future I think you know we've spoken about the iPhone's probably going to go USB-C it will have a retina display at the same resolution as the iPad Air

so which could possibly lead to a slightly larger sized screen but this is kind of like we have this piece of information, same resolution, but they're not 100% sure if the screen will increase or if it will or what it would go to. Similarly, they don't know if the design will change. But I feel like if we're going USB-C and we're going to change the screen size, it's time to change the design of the iPad. I expect to look like the iPad mini and the iPad air.

I think it's time, which again, they don't state, they're not sure. Is there a home button? Is there a touch ID? I think it's now is the time to make those changes. It's going to have to change at some point. I think we've now hit that kind kind of area what do you think about

that just as on the ipad just remember apple's whole deal especially with lower end products is recycling right it's just reusing stuff so i would imagine like they would make it if it's going to be a different size or shape it would be the size or shape of the ipad air um so that they could use the same accessories etc etc like you just everything gets reused right so yeah having it look a lot like the ipad air makes sense what happens to the ipad air at that point i don't know um you know more powerful processor etc etc like we have to figure it out powerful processor can use the uh apple pencil inductive charging has a magic keyboard you know all that kind of stuff like i think they wouldn't bring those features to the ipad well if they do usbc they can't use the old

apple pencil anymore it has to go away and they have to use pencil 2 and they have to find a way to charge pencil 2 and they can put that charger on the ipad mini has it but the ipad mini doesn't have the magic keyboard either you know what i mean but right yeah yeah so they could do that at least i i think we still see you know there's still like this conflict between what is the ipad air and what is the base model ipad and what is the ipad pro and oh and as zack has said relating to earlier obviously the ipad air is stage manager and this ipad wouldn't yeah i would think not right less ram and an a14 and a phone class chip yeah exactly so that's that so that's kind of confirming the ipad mini is not going away so we'll go back to

14 inch ipad now yes let's just call it the iPad Studio for the time being. Now, this is, I'm assuming then it has a different configuration and different trade-offs. So the screen is much larger, but it isn't promotion. So, and it doesn't have mini LED.

Now, mini LED was pitched at being like really great for creators. In theory, the iPad Studio would be for creators, but they'd have to tell a different story there, I guess, if it's not going to have that right i assume mini led the challenge there is it's one very expensive and two very much more expensive the larger your screen is oh yeah and complicated probably some combination of those and i don't know i mean one one thought

i have is that maybe there is a more interesting set of accessories for a larger iPad. I feel like this is the artist's iPad, too. I mean, they could say it's for video and things like that where you just want more room. But I just am picturing the rollout of this product in my mind and thinking it's going to be super apple pencil focused maybe this is the third generation apple pencil too gets introduced with this product so they can tell a story with that um i saw an artist that i follow on twitter who basically said oh my god yes please a larger ipad because she draws on her ipad time. And, and I think that there would be a lot of people who would say that, right. That it's just like, if the point is that this is my canvas

and I would like a larger canvas than 12.9, um, or anything you do on the iPad that, that would benefit from more screen real estate, including, um, yeah, like I said, video editing, stuff like that. Uh, but, but graphics, right. Artwork things with Apple pencil, the, the, you know, procreate and affinity designer and stuff like that. I can see what that, what that, uh, would be the premise for this. Even if a lot of people just buy it because they want a big iPad and they like the big screen idea. Um, and I know that I think think i think federico would be super into that but um but i i think that the way you tell the story there is about things like creative people and that fits into the studio name too right it's like this is this is the creative people who need

more space for their for their content or to create their content it would it is a shame to me though that it would still be using an older screen technology like i think eventually in the future all these ipads are going to be oled but we just have to wait until we get there but like it's gonna you know it'll be multiple years away but eventually it's all going to lead to oled rather than mini led anyway um but it you know it would be a shame that this would be i'm sure an expensive ipad with a lot of really great features, but it's going to have an LED display. I wonder if they would make a magic keyboard for it. Like I said, I feel like it could be an interesting accessory story with that.

And is it a magic keyboard? and is it a magic keyboard is it a you know a stand that you could you know put use it on your desk and with it is it that easel kind of approach to it where you can draw on it and then you can also have like a keyboard and a trackpad because that's a a mainstream you know way of using an ipad now and they they set it up more that way and say, you know, we don't think this is your laptop that you're bringing with you and so we're not going to make that. Then again, I have a hard time thinking that they wouldn't use it

as an opportunity to sell a big magic keyboard to somebody who wants it, right? It's just the opportunity of it. But I could see the opportunity for some other more interesting accessories that fit the storytelling. Yep.

All right. So do you remember last time we were talking about Mark Gurman reporting there to be a 15-inch MacBook Air coming? Yes. Ming-Chi Kuo has a report that he expects there to be a new 15-inch MacBook featuring M2 and M2 Pro options in 2023.

Now, that doesn't sound like an Air to me. So MacBook Studio. There you go. This is the thread that I am weaving. It would be weird, right, to put an M2 Pro in the MacBook Air. Right. It would be weird to do that.

Even if it had a 15-inch screen. That feels like a... Well, it's not an Air, and it's not a Pro. How airy can it be if it's 15 inches? screen so yep that feels like a well it's not an air and it's not a pro how airy can it be if it's 15 inches exactly so there you go can't be studio you heard it here first all right i mean chico says he has not heard anything about a 12 inch macbook as reported by mark kerman so they're dueling maybe maybe they were pranking uh kerman maybe that was all a prank i think he knows that a lot of people want to see that even

smaller Apple laptop. And I'm one of those people and yet I look at that new 13 and I think are they really going to put the effort into doing a 12 inch if they've got this new 13 inch that looks like this? Is that really going to

bring in incremental number of users um to do that that little super light an awesome variation but like is is the 13 air small enough or not and like i i would love to see that smaller laptop but i'm not entirely convinced that um enough of us would want to see it we need to head on down to the prospector now to find out the status of Apple's headset. Okay. Ming-Chi Kuo, who's not the prospector, but he's the marshal, right? But Ming-Chi Kuo's latest estimate

is that the Apple headset could be set now to launch in Q2 of 2023, likely to be announced in early 2023 with this timeline. Kuo believes that Apple could provide early access to the hardware to developers in between

announcement and shipment to customers. Those last two parts, by the way, feel like pure speculation from Ming-Chi Kuo, like not really based on anything, just like what he thinks. But the first part being the launch period. This is because K Kuo was reporting, there are COVID lockdowns in China, resulting

in the timelines continuing to slip. So they are delaying any announcement until they're more confident of a shipping date, because Apple would be concerned that their competitors will see what they're working on too soon. Right, that's fair. Interesting.

That's like Q2 2023 that's a year from now which is wild considering people were expecting it to be unveiled two weeks ago yeah it's it's like wwdc 2023 yeah like that could be that could be the announcement that could be the announcement is there or well he says announced early 2023 but if it slips it could be the announcement. That could be the announcement is there. Well, he says announced early 2023, but if it slips, it could be. It could get pushed back even further. I think his speculation about the developers is important just because we've spent, I know, a lot of time talking about this too. That you really, ideally, you want developers to spend time with this before it launches. And so the advantage of announcing it early is that you've got some way to at least roll out the software story to developers.

I'd been theorizing that they might use with a refund when you return it or whatever to developers um in order to get developers access to this stuff because that's one of the ways that this will be a successful launch is this is so different uh you really want to be able to give developers access to some version of the hardware if you can so um that's an interesting tidbit of like well maybe they will have enough of them that they will let you know they will approve certain developers to get a dtk essentially of the headset and it's possible that like you know i say that it feels like speculation to me however it's possible that he's aware that there's some kind of like

provision for a small number of units to be made in advance or whatever. I still think that at the very least, what they will do is open up the developer center with units and you can book appointments and you can go to Apple and try it out there with your app or whatever. But it would be even better if they could say, all right, give us the retail price and we'll ship you one two months early or whatever.

So you can really test it out. Because as we said, we said many times on the show and we're talking about this, the fact that this is their first generation of a product means that they can have a multiple month lead time between announcement and shipping. Right, and keep in mind too that even if it was shipping hardware,

it would probably have a beta OS on it and it might even have more restrictions so like only your apps will run on it i mean they would they would do as much as possible to make it you're like oh well but if they ship it then it's out there in the world and everybody will be reviewing that it's like well if it's if they ship it but it's kind of broken and it's just for developers then there will be a limited amount that can be gleaned from it given you know, that they will have already announced it and told you what they think it will be in the end.

What will we really learn? And I'm sure there will be some clever developers out there who will get it, you know, Gui Rambo will get it, take it apart and be like, oh, I think this is going on there. But, you know, it won't be the same. And the benefit will be that Apple will get some better software from developers when they launch it this episode is brought to you by our friends at squarespace the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your business online you can stand out with a beautiful website engage with your audience and sell anything from products to services or even the content that you create because squarespace has got you covered with With Squarespace, you'll be able to get started with a best-in-class website template which you can

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for their support of this show and all at RelayFM. Let's finish out today's episode with some hashtag ask upgrade questions. First comes from Brantz, who asks, given the choice,

would you have preferred Apple to put full widgets on the lock screen? Are you happy that they went with Apple Watch style complications? I, you know, I think it's good that they're different because the design style of the widgets is very rich and nice. And it's very clear that the design style of the lock screen widgets is meant to be spare and small and also look good when it's in that always on mode that we all know is coming, which means that they need to be very, you know, sort of dim and just little just little light marks with, you know, circles or text or like super simple, right? And regular widgets are nice and they're pretty and they're big

and they have color and they're just totally different. So full widgets on the lock screen, they could do it, but then you'd have to have ghost widgets, like skeleton widgets when you're in that dimmed, always on mode that we all know is coming. what would it look like then so if this was

if we didn't think that that was coming and it was just sort of like widgets on the lock screen instead of that are this new style instead of the old style then we might have been like oh but you know i'm just tapping to wake it up and i want to see the bright colorful weather widget that i like but we all know that that's not what's going to happen. And so that's why they made this decision. And I think it's a smart one. I like that it's different. Personally, I like that they've gone into two different designs.

Well, really that they've gone more Apple Watch than the regular Switch UI widgets, because I can still get to my widgets with a swipe from the lock screen, right? When I've actually got the, when I'm on, when I've woken the screen up when i've actually uh got the when i'm on when i've woken the screen up but what i like about the design of these that i've seen so far is that it's lots of small pieces of information that you can get without taking up the whole lock screen

because if you had the regular widgets you wouldn't have any space anymore to see the image and you wouldn't be able to see a lot of notifications very easily. Like if there's one thing I've learned from macOS, widgets and notifications do not go well together because they both want all of the space they can get. So I like that these kind of more complication style widgets are kind of meant to be very light in their information

and their information density and not take up like you know if you think about it the smallest widget is the size of four app icons that's way too big for me on the lock screen yeah and again also try to imagine your rich weather widget with the blue sky and the clouds in the background and all of that and the white text on the on the background and then imagine it in a d d contented d saturated the number right like oh yeah right so you get this box and it's going to be like i said it's like a ghost or a skeleton where it's it's desaturated and like it doesn't it doesn't work in that mode and it would take up a lot of space. So I'm okay with it.

You know, really, it's like when you, if you look at an Apple Watch app, when it goes into the always on display mode, it like loses everything by and large. It gets really, really simplified. It does. Justin writes in and says, for the love of God,

please talk me out of installing beta 1 on my iphone justin don't do it don't do it don't do it you'll regret it you'll regret it because your iphone's very important to you and while you'll have those new features and you'll be really excited oh look at this i got a lock screen i can do that then you're going to be like using your iphone for the regular part of your life that isn't looking at new features and it's going to do something bad or an app's not going to work or it's going to crash or you're going to have to reboot your phone like during the day

because you tap on an app and nothing happens and you're like, what's going on? Oh, it's an early beta of iOS and you're going to be sad and you're going to be like, and then you're going to say to yourself, wait, I have to do this until the middle of September and you'll be extra sad.

So what I would say is wait, maybe later in the summer, a later beta will serve you better. The first beta is not for you. Don't do it. But Justin, think of how cool you'll be. Oh no! If you have beta 1 on your iPhone right now, you'll be ahead of the curve, Justin. You'll know all of the information before anybody else, Justin. Imagine that, right? You will be ahead of the curve, Justin. You'll know all of the information before anybody else, Justin. Imagine that, right?

You will be right there, right now. Like, you don't just have to look at screenshots anymore. You don't just have to go to 9to5Mac or Mac Stories or Six Colors and look at what everybody else is doing. You could be Six Colors, Justin. You could do it. Just install it right now i will say i was just basically my feeling like it i will say it frustrates me when i listen to podcasts and

the podcasters say don't do it don't install babylon i think don't tell me what i can and can't do podcaster you can't tell me what to do so i'm just very much if you want to do it justin do it but like you know the risks i like the reverse psychology which is like like hey justin do it you should do it yeah they're gonna be crashes you're gonna be crashing all summer long but who cares who cares man because you're gonna be living on the cutting edge summer of fun baby summer of fun baby and then i'm probably gonna to do it with Beta too. Join me. You know? And then maybe you get the, use the reverse

psychology and we can scare him off. I don't know. It's, everybody take it into your own hands. I have not put it on my regular phone. I have a, another phone, a sacrifice phone that has it instead. Yeah, to be fair, this question was sent in last week it just didn't

make it into the document last time justin may have for all we know already done it you know and it might be too late leon asks now that the m2 chip has the fancy video media engine do you think this will make it to an m2 ipad pro and could therefore be a signal that final cut pro is coming to the ipad or will they likely just turn off the media engine on ipads look there's already i don't think they'll turn it off there already is a media engine in the m1 it just doesn't cover quite as much of like 4k h264 and h265 and like it it's it's very specific like additions to the media blocks that happen in the m2 pro or m1 pro and so therefore presumably then you know that stuff came to the m2 base model um yeah so i love the conspiracy theory here which is uh this is a sign that final cut pro is coming

to the ipad i except to say that the they could have done it with the M1 and they would have still gotten accelerated H.264 and H.265. It just wouldn't have necessarily been at 4K resolution. So I think Apple can bring Final Cut to the iPad anytime it wants to, and it hasn't yet. So I'm not sure this makes a difference other than to say, yes, perhaps they would use a hardware release involving M2 as a way to launch new software, right? Hard to believe that they would launch

a pro app for the iPad if they ever do, which I don't know if they ever will, if they ever do, that they would launch it with no hardware announcement to go with it. It seems like they would want to time those together. So that might be a good reason. Oh, can you imagine if it's got features that are only supported by M2 iPads that the M1 iPads don't support? Oh, man. Ouch.

17 apps in Stage Manager. I think the truth is what would really happen is the M1 will export 4k h you know 264 video at half the speed of the m2 is probably how it would work out real-time follow-up justin has not yet installed beta 1 on okay iphone don't do it or do it but don't do it i don know. We don't know what we're talking about. The devil and the angel are on your shoulders. Do you think we'll see TVOS directly mentioned at WWDC ever again? Or was last year the swan song for TVOS getting time at WWDC? As the TVOS expert, I think that it is less and less likely, as they are very clearly moving further away from developer features for tvOS.

I think we're most likely to hear about tvOS itself whenever they have new hardware that requires some new user features. I don't think tvOS is really a platform that the wider development community is concerned about and I don't think Apple wants them to particularly be concerned about. You are a very particular type of developer if you are developing for tvOS and that's the end of that.

I think there's truth in that but I will say if they've got an initiative that features in with tvOS they'll mention it. If they've got a new thing I in with tv os they'll mention it if they've got a new thing i think tv os is not on a real accelerated development schedule but if they've got a thing that they're really proud of on tv os it's going to roll out the same time as all the other os is probably and they'll mention it but yeah i i just i think it's expected to be a footnote for the foreseeable future yeah most definitely you, expert on tvOS. I appreciate that. I'm glad you were here

to handle that one. And Sims asks, Mike's first hardware review unit was the yellow M1 iMac. Jason, do you remember what yours was? I don't think I do. Like, Apple if we say it's an Apple computer

where I have a review unit, my guess is that it was a laptop in the early two thousands. Um, because I, that's when I started writing lots and lots of, of laptop reviews was in the early two thousands. Certainly by the time the Intel transition happened, I was writing lots of Mac hardware reviews for Mac world.

So somewhere there, but I can't, I actually can't pinpoint it also in that era, you know, there were times where I was editing the reviews and then I was writing some of the reviews. There were some that were advanced hardware. There were some where we just bought the hardware and reviewed it because Apple didn't send it to us. So I don't have a very clear memory of that. But my guess is if you wanted to say that it was a power book from 2003, that's probably somewhere in there is probably when it happened. Yeah. If you would like to send in a question of your own

to be read out and answered on the show send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or upgrade upgrade hashtag ask upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay fm members discord which you get access to if you sign up for upgrade plus go to get upgrade plus.com and you will get longer ad-free episodes every single week of Upgrade. If you are wondering, hey, where's the RelayFM member special crossover that you usually do every year? It is being worked on. Unfortunately, due to COVID, it has been delayed.

It is in editing right now. I am working on it every day, but I don't currently have the capacity to put in the amount of time that I would have been able to put into it up to this point. It is coming though. It's like halfway through the editing process so far.

What people may not understand is that we use a lot of legacy nodes in making our membership content. I will actually say this year, there are the most legacy nodes I've ever used. I've built up such an impressive library of sound effects now that I don't need to buy as many.

So I'm using a lot of legacy nodes. The legacy nodes are helping me this time, honestly. But it's moving through the process, slower than usual, but moving through the process. So it is coming. I don't know when it will be, but soon. I'm halfway done. Yeah, go to getupgradeplus.com. You can when it will be, but soon. I'm halfway done. Go to getupgradeplus.com. You can sign up.

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Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.