Upgrade - 415: My Body Is My Studio, My Exercises Are My Canvas

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Apple's iOS, macOS, and iPadOS betas have gone public and we have our first impressions! Also, the M2 MacBook Air has gone on sale, the new "extreme sports" Apple Watch is coming into focus, and for the Summer of Fun we're drafting favorite app icons.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 415 today's show is brought to you by squarespace sourcegraph and capital one my name is mike hurley it is the summer of fun and i'm joined by jason snell hi jason snell fun hello mike hurley happy summer of fun and happy upgrade to you and to you my friend and to you i have a hashtag snell talk question to start off this week's episode in case you're new around here snell talk is to uh get us started in the show and avoid small talk. And this week's question was submitted by listener Mac, who says, If the summer is the summer of fun, what are the other seasons? The other, like, upgrade seasons?

Sure. Okay, we can start with winter because that's easy because we've already defined it. It's the winter of no content. Yeah. The winter of no content because there's no content in the winter. So we think the summer's bad, right? We came up with the summer of fun because we like to do fun things in the summer because usually it's quiet for stories and news in the summer for us to talk about. So we have to be a little bit more creative. But truly, the problem is winter. Over time, it's kind of shifted. But now here we are in the summer. But it's like those winter months, like those first three months of

the year. That's weather. The summer of fun doesn't exist because there's nothing going on. It exists because there's not a lot going on because it's that cruise until the fall, the beta's been announced, and then we're kind of cruising. But also it exists because you and I, and many people travel in the summer. And so we ended up having those scenarios where we had to have weird episodes that were out of time, you know, we're banking it a week in advance or that, and that led us down this path to sort of making a theme out of it because the summer got really weird um some years where you know there was one where like you were gone and then i was gone so like i did the

i did that thing that was like live from that automation event and then the next time and that was a delayed one and then i came back and i think you were gone there was a whole like that's why we do summer fun so winter yes it's true. Winter is rougher, and so the winter of discontent is the winter of no content. I came up with two potential ideas here. Now, I'm not saying we do this because

we don't need a brand for every season. No, we don't. I was thinking fall of plenty because the fall was the best time of the year. It's just stuff happening left right and center and then springing towards the summer because in spring

all we're doing is waiting for WWDC at that point. Yeah, that's fair. Sure, sure. But I agree with you that we don't actually need to brand the other seasons but just for Mac purposes we'll go with that. It's like you know in the sense of like we have always had in our mind this joke of like the winter of no content yes that one we got in the winter the other ones haven't happened yet fall of iphone but fall of

really everything fall of everything now this is the thing it's not just the iphone anymore right it's just literally yeah everything if you would like to help us open an episode of Upgrade and be involved in the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk with your question, or use question mark SnellTalk in the RelayFM members Discord. I have some follow-out, Jason Snell. If you are listening to this kind of at the start of the week, Monday or Tuesday, you have a very short time left to get your your own upgrade summer of fun t-shirt so this is going to be cutting off i think on the 13th um for most people but like you got find

out on the on the page it has like a localized when the end of the sale is but if you're on the page buy the shirt go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com uh don't wait any longer because if you wait much longer you won't get one wednesday july 13th 2022 at 5 p.m pacific time it's over it's over which is also uh just to make things more complicated i will give you what it's like for me. Thursday, the 14th of July, 2022, at 1 a.m. British summertime. All right. So, Mike, when you edit the show, can you put in a little JavaScript or something

in the podcast that localizes that? I can do that. So whatever we say will just come out in the time that... Mm-hmm. Okay, good. That's easy to do. Right? That's like a little JavaScript, a little

PHP. Dynamic time insertion. It's dangerous when I... I was listening to a Reconcilable Differences episode over the weekend, and it's dangerous when I do that, because then I try to turn this show into the nonsense of Reconcilable Differences. Oh, you've been...

I feel like I was driving us off the rails there. Yeah, stick some JavaScript in there and localize that time to UTC, to Unix Epoch time. Yeah. And then your podcast player of choice will then emulate our voices saying the proper time. I would just like to state for the record

that you said that listening to Reconcilable Differences has made you silly. We spent 45 minutes doing BuzzFeed quizzes last week. You were fine before listening to Reconcilable Differences. I think what you're saying is I was already kind of messed up. You've got this on your own. You don't need any inspiration from anyone else. this you've got this on your own you don't need any inspiration from anyone

else anyway if you are a Unix computer buy a t-shirt for your computer frame buy 1657 756800 in Unix Epoch perfect thank you so much

helpful if you enjoy this show and want more of it you should subscribe to Upgrade Plus because you will get bonus content every week and no ads and special for relay fm members we finally did it this year's rpg adventure crossover with the cortex podcast is now available for relay fm members in the crossover feed this is available for upgrade plus but this is also available if you are a member of any show here in relay fm you get access to the crossover feed which features tons of bonus content from relay fm hosts uh we did it again we continued on our story from last year you also get access to the whole history of that feed so you can go back and listen to our previous rpg adventures if you

want to and we had tony come in tony cindar from the Total Party Kill podcast on The Incomparable. And Tony was our DM again as myself and Jason and Gray. We went on a supply chain adventure. We did, yeah. These are our characters from last time where we're in space. I was going to say futuristic, but I think the idea is that it's literally we are plucked from earth and deposited in a wild uh space scenario yeah and in this case a very simple need for the bar that we were deposited in to replenish its its supplies of like chicken fingers and fries and stuff from uh the but the delivery hasn't arrived so we just got to go get the stuff and uh it goes from there i guess i would say i

really love this one so like i've always enjoyed these last year we did we kind of switched it up so we were doing attacks adventures where jason was at the end but we wanted jason to play with us so uh we brought in tony who's an experienced dungeon master to craft an rpg and tony adapted a previous story but my understanding is one, he basically created this story himself. And I think it's fantastic. I think he did such a good job. We had so much fun. This was the most fun I've had editing one of these in years.

He did such a good job and it was really great. It took a little longer. My COVID recovery slowed down the edit, but we got there and I'm really happy with how it came out. And I'm happy that we took the extra time on it because it's really great. So you can get this for yourself

by going to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up and you'll get access to Upgrade Plus and the crossover feed where you'll find this RPG adventure. But wait, there's more. Jason Snell has joined MacBreak Weekly on Twit. It's true.

It's true. I'm expanding. what i said on twitter is my goal is to eventually you know have a podcast every day of the week and twice on sundays or at least sometimes it seems like that yeah um so our goodbye to jason today bye it's one of my last nope nope uh my our good friend, Rene Ritchie, who was at iMore and has been doing his own YouTube channel for a while. He has apparently a new job that hasn't been announced yet. People are thinking that it'll be with Apple. I kind of think not, especially since he, I think, has said that he'll come back from time to time. People who go to Apple don't come back from time to time. They just go and they're gone.

But under an official auspice. Yeah, I doubt that will happen. Anyway, so we'll see. I don't know. It's Renee's announcement to make. And I honestly, he hasn't said, and I don't know, but, uh, he, it required him to leave Mac break weekly on the Twit network. And I have been a guest on their shows, especially the main Twit show,

on and off for quite a while. And I know those people. And our friend Micah works up there. And of course, Leo Laporte runs the whole thing with his wife, Lisa. And they're also local. They're in the North Bay. They're not that far away from me. And so they offered me Renee Slott, essentially. And I was kind of honored to be offered it. And so, yes, you can see me leaning back, not being the co-host or producer or anything, but just being one of the panel, which is kind of fun, weekly on Tuesdays at TWIT. So I'm looking forward to giving that a start tomorrow. One of my very first podcasts that I would listen to is MacBreak Weekly. Yeah, it's people are asking.

I mean, first off, I don't think there's actually a lot of overlap. Every time I go on Twitter, I'm surprised at how different their audience is from our audience. So that's interesting. And like I said, somebody asked, what's the difference between Upgrade and MacBreak Weekly? Well, I mean, MacBreak Weekly, the producers make the list of topics. Leo runs the show. And I will be one of three panelists talking to Leo. Upgrade is a collaborative process where Mike and I make the show.

We talk about what we want. This is my show I make the show. We talk about what we want. This is like, this is my show and Mike's show and Mac break weekly is Leo show that I will be on. So it's a, it's a totally different thing. The vibe is different. It's all different. So if you want to give it a try or if you listen to it,

you know, I'll be over there, but, uh, but it's not, not going to be the same as here. And that's, that's good.

I'll be, I'll be providing my, you know, whatever it is, unique Jason perspective to whatever they're talking about. Sure, sure. Are we going to talk about like inserting JavaScript for a time code on a podcast over on a Twit? Probably not.

Probably not. Who knows? It's my guess. Yeah, who knows? It's a podcast. Anything can happen. By the way, though, if you do love tech panel shows, we have a great one here at RelayFM.

It's called Clockwise. Jason was one of the original hosts of Clockwise. It's now hosted by Dan Warren and Michael Sargent. Michael is also on a bunch of Twitch shows too. We have a lot of crossover now, which I think is nice. The most recent episode of Clockwise featured Flo, who's on Material, and Matthew Bischoff. They were the guests.

They were talking about stuff like online privacy, target advertising, that kind of thing. Clockwise is never longer than 30 minutes, so it's an easy one to add to your queue. So go check it out. Yeah, check it out. And I'm going to be doing, if you want, even more of me again. Oh, my God. I'm going to be doing some fill- Summer of Jason!

Yeah, I'm going to be doing some fill-in hosting as a favor to dan and micah uh i think starting next week so i'll be on uh clockwise a lot this summer which is great because i demanded it uh when i knew they needed a fill-in because um it is near and dear to my heart dan and i did create that show and worked really hard on that format and i'm really proud that it continues to be a great show because that, you know, it's, it's just such a fun,

unique format and, and less than 30 minutes. And, you know, it's all, it's, it's worth it. It's worth it.

If you want to kind of a sampler of different voices and different topics and not have a, another two hour podcast dropping in your, in your podcast app definitely check it out. Clockwise is the beneficiary of a unique feature in the RelayFM CMS which is the ability to adjust

who the hosts are on specific episodes as opposed to the entire show so if you go back and look at the older episodes Jason's there instead of Micah yeah it's true I have some follow up on iPad and Universal Control If you go back and look at the older episodes, Jason's there instead of Micah. Yeah, that's true. I have some follow-up on iPad and Universal Control.

So I've got a few little things on this. So I think I mentioned this in the episode, but I also had some people suggest to me using shortcuts to turn on low power mode as a way to lock the iPad. This is for your status board. For my status board thing. Yeah. The thing is, low power mode iPad. This is for your status board. For my status board. The thing is, low power mode doesn't

lock an iPad if universal control is enabled. So maybe this would work after I leave the studio, but it's not as reliable as I would want it to be. I'm going to test it out more, but what I was hoping was somebody was going to

write in and say, oh, this is really easy way and shortcuts to turn like to turn an iPad on and off the screen. But there isn't. It's always going to be a bit of a hack. But to be honest, I actually think it's mostly OK. You know, like at the end of every day, I unplug my MacBook Pro from the monitor to put in my bag. And so as part of my kind of like shutting down the studio procedure now i just lock my ipad it's not actually that much more complicated um but the thing that i that i do i still might want to do though is uh try and set up a smart switch for the power situation because i'm plugging and unplugging that ipad a lot and it's annoying me. But I also don't want to leave it continuously plugged in, like drawing power always.

So I think I might get a smart switch and just like kind of wire it up and just have it turn off in the evenings and turn back on in the mornings. I think I might set that up anyway. I don't know. If it's asleep, I don't think it's going to matter because it's only going to draw power when it needs to

and it will let its battery kind of drop down. Yeah, I know. I'm weird with this kind of stuff. All right. I'm weird with this stuff. I leave my iPad plugged in overnight all the time. No, I do that. Like I charge my phone or whatever, but this would be like it would be plugged in 24-7, 365 days a year.

Well, that's, yeah. And I don't need it to do that. Like, if I was away for a week, I don't need that iPad to remain consistently charged, you know? So that just feels like a waste of electricity. So I'm thinking I might just get, I might get another one of those smarts, like, power strips that you can, I've spoke about these before.

I don't remember the name, but I'll put them in the show notes. James Thompson turned me on to this company where they have a smart switch that you can individually automate each of the switches in the smart switch like a PowerStrip. So you can break it up and it can be like four individually addressable,

automatable sockets. And so I might just get one of those and plug it into that. I think I'm going to do that actually once. I knew, see, here's the thing. I knew if I stalled for long enough there, James would tell me in the Discord the name of the company. It's called Meros, M-E-R-O-S-S, Meros. They make these products and we've been using them at home for a long time and I really

like them. So I think I'm going to get another one of these because it does like native HomeKit. Like you don't need to use an app and I like that. Like I don't need to use the Miros app or Miros Bridge. It just works with HomeKit. So I'm going to get myself one of these and set it up.

I will say over the past week, I have had better reliability of Universal Control. It's been reconnect the past week, I have had better reliability of universal control. It's been reconnecting more frequently, but not all the time. And sometimes just disconnects whenever it wants to. So, but many upgradians wrote in

to tell me that they have a flawless experience, which leads me to believe that it is the beta, like me running the iPadOS beta is making it odd, which I did expect, right? But I was happy to get

that feedback. I also had a bunch of upgradians write in to tell me about the Logi Options Plus app from Logitech. It's a beta that they've got running right now, specifically to address issues with universal control. And it's odd, you have to have Logitech's Logi Options app already installed. And then you install this, which I think is kind of like a plugin for that app. But it makes the scrolling work with my Logitech mouse in Universal Control. So it's doing something to like just get all of that together. I don't know how it's doing it. But I'm happy to have it because i now can scroll whenever i want to nice and finally the macbook air is available for sale uh it went on sale at the end of the week as expected availability got very thin very quickly like basically what it seems like almost immediately and now is that if you want anything other than one of the base configurations you want to if you change anything you're into august uh before one of these things

will come to you you ordered one right i did it's the same thing yeah i uh let's see for the record midnight uh 16 gigs of ram 512 ssd and first week of august. That's what it kind of seems like. I think they made a lot of standard configurations, right? Which they probably know that they sell a lot of base model configurations. So they made a lot of those. So there's more availability of those and then everything else. I'm not even sure this is a traditional sort of like, oh, whoop, just like that. They're sold out.

I feel like it was more, they had a, I don't think things necessarily slipped much to get to August or late July. I think it was more like you could either get a stock one next, this week, or you could wait for one of those configure to order models because those were going to take a little bit longer. Yeah. But yeah, so definitely,

if you want to get your hands on one, like Friday stock configurations at an apple store maybe yeah i mean that might be the thing right as you said they because sometimes even apple have in store some basic upgrades like you might be able to get one with a little bit more ram from a store but that's on the usual times. And right now, it doesn't seem like stock is a usual thing, right? It's all weird right now. But there you go. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your business online. You can stand out with a beautiful website. You can engage with

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or most popular products and content. This is really great. All of this stuff is fantastic. Squarespace continues to grow into just like an indispensable tool. It's whenever I want to put something online, it's where I go and you should too. Go to to squarespace.com upgrade and you can sign up for a free trial with no credit card required then when you're ready to launch use the offer code upgrade

and you'll save 10 of your first purchase of a website or domain that's squarespace.com upgrade and when you decide to sign up use the offer code upgrade to get 10 of your first purchase and show your support for the show. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of Upgrade and RelayFM. So we're up to beta 3 now. And I think that we've both had some changes on our devices in the sense of what we're running the betas on. So I think it might be time for a bit of a check-in. Where have you got beta is going a

little beta beta update beta update uh i am well i i took the plunge and installed the beta 3 of ipad os on my personal ipad pro which um you know it's a little scary. There's an annoying bug. I use my iPad so much, and there's a bug. I mean, it's a beta. There are bugs, but the one that really annoys me is there's a software keyboard bug

where a lot, frequently, apps basically lose track of where the top of the software keyboard is and so the text entry field is below the top of the software keyboard so you can't see it yeah the only solution is to quit the app and relaunch it and then you can see it and then it gets bad again and you have to do it again and that's just a thing that's in there and it's annoying but i can i can live with it um i did this all right before I went away for a long weekend. And so I haven't spent time with it in, uh, a smart keyboard or a magic keyboard or in, um, uh, monitor, you know, external display mode. So I can't talk about

stage manager from that perspective, right on, uh, I'm not convinced stage manager is the right approach when you're just holding an iPad in your hand, right? I'm not sure in most cases, at least the way I use my iPad, that I need stage manager when I'm just holding my iPad in my hands using my fingers to touch it. I don't know. entirely convinced maybe there are scenarios but a lot less so than if i'm in the keyboard based scenario keyboard pointer based scenario so i've got a i mostly used it even over the weekend with stage manager turned off but i am looking forward to now that it's on my you know my my ipad pro um spending some time with it in the Magic Keyboard or attached to the Studio Display. So in Developer Beta 3, there was some new stuff that came to Stage Manager.

And I was playing with some of that because I have it on my iPad Air, right? The one that I'm using for my status board. So the multitasking menu, that little pill thing, it got some new, it's kind of presented differently now it used to just be like three little icons now they have text labels which i think is a good move and there's also a close button a fourth close button now so you can minimize and you can close realistically i feel feel like on ipad os there isn't a difference like i can't really work out what the the difference is but i guess maybe it returns to the little tray on the left if you minimize.

But happily, as I know you wanted, Command W now closes Windows. Yeah. Which is fantastic. They have a better presentation for multiple windows. In fact, there's one that works. If you had like a window to select between multiple windows, you'd go into that like, I don't know,

like kind of like an expose kind of mode. It didn't work on previous betas. They fixed that. Full screen apps and iPhone apps now work better in Stage Manager. So previously, if you had an app that kind of couldn't be resized, you couldn't put any other windows

in that kind of space with it, in that stage with it. You can do that now. It kind of just, they overlap. And you can run iPhone apps in there. You can't resize them, but you can have a bunch of iPhone apps on screen. So finally, iPhone apps are useful on the iPad

because you could have, say, an iPhone app and an iPad app in the same stage, where up until now, if you wanted to use an iPhone app, it was just this huge, disgusting thing on the screen. So that's really cool, I think. Yeah, I used this with some iPhone apps over the weekend, and what I found is that I couldn't consistently see the window control thing, which is kind of necessary. Okay.

So, you know, being able to grab it and minimize it or close it or whatever. I had some iPhone apps where it was sort of like just a floating thing, right? With no controls on it at all. But this is the idea. I wonder if this is like literally part of the Mark Gurman report from whatever two years ago that eventually, you know, you'd be able to run, well, I guess I was on the Mac, right? You'd be able to run iPhone apps on the Mac. This seems a little like that though, where it's like, yeah, we have a context now where anything can be on your iPad. Why would

we not let those iPhone apps run in the little iPhone shaped window with other stuff going on? In fact, last year I did a mock-up, I think it was last year, maybe it was the year before, of what an iPad on an external display would look like, 5K external display. And that was one of the things I did was like, let's take an iPhone app and have it be like just a little window on the screen and look great. And it looked exactly like this, which is, yeah, I mean, ideally you'd like to be able to resize them and that requires it to be more iPad-y, but it's nice to not have to open an iPad. It's the worst to open an iPhone app on the iPad. Some of them don't even do rotation. So if you're holding it horizontal, you launch the iPhone app

and it's vertical and you're like, oh, I guess I'm going to turn my iPad now. And so if you're holding it horizontal you launch the iphone app and it's vertical and you're like oh i guess i'm gonna turn my ipad now um and even if you just want to get out of it you can't flip up um from the bottom once it's in that orientation because once it's in vertical you have to turn it and flip up from the bottom or flip up from the side it It's weird. Anyway, so this is progress. I still wish that tapping the blank space behind the applications would take me to the home screen. I know that you can do this on the Mac, right? If you click, it shows you the desktop.

I wished it would do this. They just added in Beta 3 on macOS with Stage Manager the ability to just show the desktop like your actual desktop all the time it just stays back there it doesn't hide the desktop and i didn't realize how disconcerting it was for my desktop to be gone because i flipped that feature on i was like oh and then you can just like drag things open for the desktop and it's not it doesn't get weird about it so i think they're they're making some progress on the mac front too but i agree with

you it's a little weird that you can't just use that as a shortcut especially when they insist on there being that kind of space there right they insist on showing me this blurred image so if it's always there make it useful i think they will do this because the mac does it but i think it's just like a case of priorities I will say I think personally we're up to beta 3 now developer beta 3 it's not on any non M1 iPad I think

that ship has sailed I think they you know the people who are upset about it are upset about it but it's kind of blown over mostly now and you know I'm sure people are annoyed about it but upset about it. It's kind of blown over mostly now and I'm sure people are annoyed about it but the news cycles moved on. They've not

released a statement nor have they changed it. So I think this is it. I mean, obviously, I don't have a problem with it. Because stage managers are continuing to get better and so I don't want stage manager as a feature to have a bad launch

because they have to like kind of put it in handcuffs so it can run on different hardware. That's where I come from anyway. I have the iOS beta on my iPhone and I've been playing around with that a bunch. I put beta 2 on, but now I'm running beta 3 as well. I've been really happy with the lock screen stuff.

I think I've been able to get my lock screen looking really good and really stylish, I think. You know, like changing the font. I'm using, what do they call it? It's not SF New York, the New York font. Is that what it's called? They have a serif font. Apple has the New York font. Is that what it's called? They have that, like, they have a serif font. Apple has a serif font, so it's not San Francisco.

I think it's called New York. Have I lost my mind? They have a new font type, right? It's called New York? Yeah, so I'm using the, I think it's the New York font, which is like, it's a little bit more like, I don't know, cool in a way. Like, so I've been using that as the time.

I think that's the time option is what it looks like anyway. And, you know, I have a new image, which I think looks nicer, like with the whole layout that I've got. And I'm running a few widgets. I've got like a calendar widget, an activity widget, and a widget of a beta app that I'm testing.

I really like it. And I also think just in general, the way that they present options is so good. Like you can, I think you can tell that they learn from watchOS and the kind of push that forward. Like when you go into that screen and you want to add a new lock screen

because of design, they have so many options. They have all these fun ones that they've made they take images of yours and show you how good it could look and i think they've done a really good job with that whole kind of like setup screen um and just the widgets in general the lock screen widgets i'm really excited for more and more of these to to come into later and when it's released because i think it's going to be i think it's gonna be pretty great like at the moment oh i also have the uh like

i have the calendar and i have weather the calendar is the one that's on the top like you know you got that one above the time it's just text which is like perfect for a calendar right like what's my next meeting kind of thing um yeah i'm really i really like it a lot uh there was a couple of other features that i've enjoyed um i i have actually come to really like it a lot. There was a couple of other features that I've enjoyed. I have actually come to really like the way the notifications are laid out now, kind of coming down from the bottom. I feel like it takes up way less screen real estate most of the time, which I actually think is better. Like show me fewer notifications until I want to see more of them. I tried out, I've been trying out that dictation feature within messages mostly. You know like how now the whole thing is you can just dictate and type at the same time. You can say something and

it works really well. I would say my experience with punctuation, the automatic punctuation, hasn't been that great. There's been times where I've expected it to put punctuation in and it hasn't been. But now it's so much easier to manually edit without needing to leave the dictation mode. So you can just leave the dictation going, go in and fix something, go back, and then just start speaking again. So I think the fact that it's no longer like a modal thing, you're either dictating or not, I could see myself using it more because I think that they've done a really good job of it. Messages editing is awesome. And the new way to set up focus modes. I created a new focus mode because it's so easy to do it now. They've really refined that process and have made it much better. And I think have made focus mode more useful in now that you can instead of saying

only let these things bug me just like everything can bug me except these things I think that makes way more sense for like a work focus mode and like a personal focus mode you know because in personal focus modes most people are just like I just don't want to hear from slack over the weekend you know and so just having that as an option of like everything can remind me except slack and say like outlook and my calendar and because i'm in weekend mode so i think that's nice that's great i i'm looking forward to playing with it more and like you said um widgets like third-party widgets to add more because the apple ones are nice but they're pretty generic i'm looking forward to doing it was the Apple ones are nice, but they're pretty generic.

I'm looking forward to doing that. It was the same with iOS 14, right? It was like we could get an idea for what it might look like using Apple's, but really you want the widgets for the apps you're using. Right. good that the Apple Watch was a good kind of test bed for this kind of stuff and that they learned and having much more screen space on the iPhone to give people all of those different options and sort of what a nice way to walk people through features by providing them with variations that use the features, right? Because then you can, you can just do it yourself if you want to, but Apple's going to provide you with this big palette of options. They like, they choose featured photos that you might want to use. Like they're doing a lot to try and

not just steer you, but also teach you sort of like, rather than saying, here are a bunch of settings, good luck. They're like, here's all these different ways these settings can be used or customize it yourself. Good luck, which is I think it's a better approach. And if you want to see like an example of, you know, like we talk about like Apple whimsy design and stuff. They have a selection of weather and astronomy lock screens. And you can you can kind of choose them and you can scroll through them like you can set up do you want one of the earth one of the earth detail where it zooms in when you swipe through them they do a completely unnecessary but really beautiful animation of zooming in and out like where it's just like that is stunning and is

really i think only important for if you're in that mode of choosing between which one you want and it's super great like just i would this is a fun screen to play around in because they change it up i just got uh recommended to me this was like sort of going around on Twitter a lot. The Clownfish wallpaper that they created for the original iPhone. Sometimes it pops up as like, hey, do you want this one? And so I just added it as one of my options because you can have multiple

lock screens and you can choose between them and choose like, do you want a different home screen to go with that lock screen? It's really cool. I love this feature. I think this is going to be really nice. Well, I did put Ventura on. I actually used the review unit 13-inch M2 MacBook Pro

that Apple sent me because I wrote that review. So it had to be sacrificed for the cause. So I put Ventura a bit on there. I spent some time with Continuity Camera because really Stage manager and continuity camera are kind of the two big Mac features, I would argue, um, that are, that are kind of uniquely Mac. I know that there's stage manager and iPad, but stage manager and iPad and Mac are, they're

different. The way that they work is different. Um, and continuity camera is technically kind of an iOS feature because most of the intelligence is happening on your iPhone. But it's a Mac feature, right? It's for the Mac. That's the point. I'm really impressed with continuity camera. It is working really well.

That standard iPhone camera, which is, remember, what Apple calls the wide camera, but it's the standard camera that you use. It looks really good. Even in bad light, I was sitting in my bedroom with the light off in the late afternoon and the light, you know, the light from outside is coming in a little bit and it looked so much better on that standard iPhone camera than it did on either the webcam that was on the 720p webcam on the 13 inch M2 MacBook Pro, don't get me started, or actually the view in center stage. Because remember, center stage is a feature of continuity camera, but it uses the ultra wide, the 12 megapixel ultra wide on the iPhone, not the standard because it wants to be able to have room to move, you know, pan and zoom and basically

move around. And you will not be surprised to know that when you take a 12 megapixel ultra-wide image and then crop it in order to do panning and zooming in bad light situations, it gets kind of grainy and doesn't look that great. I would say it still looks better than the 720p webcam. Not a high bar, but it still looks better than that, but webcam not a high bar but it still looks better than that but not a lot better that's interesting so this is an interesting just just a note about center stage in general right which is if you want the best image quality and you want especially performance in low light situations not using center stage is a good idea because center stage is just going to be it's kind of an inferior camera and then it's a crop of and it's a distortion and crop of an inferior

camera and it's always going to look inferior compared to in this case the standard iphone camera which is beautiful it really is in camera mode, you can choose which camera you want. Is that right? The way continuity camera works is if you are not using center stage, it uses the wide camera, the good camera. Which, of course, is something that the studio display can't do. It won't crop, but it's still got a not great camera, right? Well, yeah, it's still got that same camera, although at least it's, I mean, and it's not not cropped, it's just cropped wider and it doesn't move, right?

Because the ultra wide is super wide and an uncropped view of the camera in the studio display would be super weird. Because just like if you take your iPhone and go into the ultra wide and then zoom out, it gets all strangely distorted because it's a wide angle lens, right? go into the ultra wide and then and then zoom out it gets all strangely distorted because it's a wide angle lens right it's an ultra wide lens so um on on continuity camera they are making the decision that unless you want center stage they're going to use the

regular regular camera because it's way better um and so they'll do that and then and then yeah you can you can add that studio lighting effect if you want, which, you know, it helps. It finds your face in the foreground and lightens it up and darkens the background. And you can use the blurring stuff. And again, it's portrait mode, basically. It's using all this tech that Apple had already built for other products. And that all looks fine. So you can do that. The new document, your desk view thing that they do has to use the ultra wide because it's trying to see the edges, the peripheral edges of what it can see. And the ultra wide can see kind of everything.

So, you know, the image quality isn't great, but that's sort of not the point of the desk view thing. It's more just to get a quick and dirty view down onto your desktop in front of your laptop or beneath your display. And it does do that. But the actual standard iPhone camera looks exactly as you might expect. And if you've ever used something like Camo, you've seen this. Like like the iPhone camera is really good. Using it as a webcam is really good. The difference here is that you don't have to launch an app and launch, you know, an app on the Mac and an app on your iPhone in order to do it. It just does it. It just happens. And in fact, if you place the iPhone, like mount it on your screen or behind your screen and it's and it's you know horizontal to the to the desk and it's still um mac os

ventura will just auto switch to it because it knows it's using the iphone sensors for the to know that the iphone is now in a state where it's probably mounted as a webcam, and then it'll just flip over. You can use it without mounting it as a webcam. I still don't know what I think about that. I still can't get my head around that, like, the default swapping to the, I don't know. I feel like I need to see that myself. There's an API, and you don't have to use it, right? You can select your camera.

It's like having a default audio output or input. It's kind of like that. But yeah, we'll have to see how that goes. Because, I mean, obviously, if you put it upright on a desk, it will also switch over and it's not pointing at you if you try to emulate those same conditions. But I think their thought is, when are you going to have your iPhone horizontal and not moving around? And if you hold it in your hand, it's not the same. It knows that it's being held by a human. It's actually using those sensors to really detect that it's been mounted. So more to come on this, obviously. And I think that the story changes when you put an iPhone in a mount like that Belkin mount that was sort of pre-announced on a laptop.

And then, you know, what about a mount for a bigger display? There's more to come here. But unsurprisingly, it looks really good on that standard camera. And also, I would say unsurprisingly, when you go into center stage mode, it looks like center stage. And that means it's going to be worse performance in low light especially. But you get the cool panning and scanning thing, which is great if that matters to you. Did you say if you did this wired or wireless? I did this wireless, but it does work either way. But it looks good wireless? Yeah.

Cool, because that's what I would want to do. If I was going to use this feature, I would want it to be wireless. Otherwise, I'd just get a webcam. I think the real issue is if you use it for a long amount of time, you probably want it wired mostly just to power the iPhone so that it doesn't drain the battery on it. An hour of video is going to kill the battery. Well, I don't know because the screen's not going to be on, right?

So maybe not. Good point. Camo, the screen is on. On this, I don't think the screen is on. So I don't know. We'll have to test it out and see. But yeah, you can do either. And I think that's great because I think the idea here is,

oh, I'm going to be on a meeting. I'm going to pop this thing on and now I've got this great webcam and then when the meeting's over I'll just take it right back off. Because I don't want to be like like dripping a cable down and like you know what I mean like every time if I was going to do that I would just put a webcam on the top here and just do it once

basically I'm intrigued about this feature because the Studio Display's camera fails me so poorly. Like, as I said before, I mentioned it many times, it's not the quality for me. It's the fact that it cannot handle overhead lighting at the refresh rate of the overhead lighting that I have here, even though all of my Macs can. All my Macs can adjust to it, but the studio display can't.

And so I frequently, I'm sitting at my desk and then I need to go on a video call. So I have to come and start up everything in the podcast gear set that I have here because the iMacs will handle it, but the studio display won't. So I love the idea of being able to just get a little thing pop my iphone in and then use it you know rather than needing to then go and like

change all my gear around and stuff i wanted to mention the settings app just because i mean it's beta i hope it changes i hope it changes it's not good like they said oh let's make a settings app like ios but it's not as a mac settings app as a replacement for system preferences, which is old and needed to be replaced. Right. But it's just it's it's it's very bad. I hope they fix it. I hope they make it better. which is not even ideal on iOS, honestly, but on the Mac, when you've got, especially like, especially when I'm on a big Mac display, but even on a laptop, like these are widescreen laptops and these, this the, the app is sort of square still or tall instead of taking advantage of like the width to lay things out that way. I don't know what they're thinking. There are so many frustrations with the current system preferences thing in terms of like approving apps,

um, for like this app would like full disc access and the settings app. Like those settings are like a hierarchical two levels down and in and then approve and then out. Like it's not, it seems it's just a, it's a a mess so i hope there's no way this is made in like catalyst or swift ui right like it's the settings that they surely have not done i don't know maybe they have maybe maybe it is a swift ui or something i think i like i get the idea that we want it to be reminiscent of iOS, but the Mac has more fiddly settings even than iOS does.

And if you're going to, like, look, I know different people use different settings in different ways. Zach in the Discord is saying it is SwiftUI. SwiftUI. I mean, it feels like it's SwiftUI. But that's bold of everything to do next, you know? Yeah. Wow. Okay.

So, well, it's, you know, if you're building a new app, like system settings, then you should build it in Swift UI, right? So it's a mess. And, and it should, I feel like it's not taking advantage of things about the Mac. And I get you want it to be of a kind with iOS, but the Mac is different. And what I was saying is different people use it differently. And I get that but like especially in beta time I'm restarting into a different startup disk all the time like startup disk isn't at the top anymore you can search for it or you have to go into I think general

and then click startup disk and then select your startup disk and restart it's like why is it like that why why why have you buried a lot of for some people common night and it's not like you can favorite them or bring them out to the top or star them in some way right like you can't it it's so anyway we got the summer maybe they will do more but my initial feedback on the settings app on the Mac is that they have managed to do something I didn't think they could do which is replace

the old outdated desperately needed to be replaced system preferences app and made it worse I don't know how that's even possible but as of beta 3 that's where we are, is that it's a complete...

I'm not one of those people who says, go back to the old way. And old system preferences is bad. It's bad. But like, it's better than this. It's better than this. This is terrible. So good luck. I mean, I'm crossing my fingers for every Mac user

that the people inside Apple who are working on the settings app understand that they had to ship it because it was beta time and they know that there are lots of things wrong with it and they are going to try to fix them all by the end of the summer. I hope that's the case because if this thing ships anything resembling what it is now, it's an embarrassment. So there it is. There's my, again, beta, beta. I get that it's beta, but this is also the time where people, like with Safari last year, this is the time where people have to raise their hand and say, you didn't do it right. And they didn't do this right. It's a mess. And it's not because it's different. It's because it's bad

because it doesn't do what a settings app is supposed to do, which is make it easy for users to change their settings instead of, I mean, yeah, at least you can search for startup disk. At least you can search for it if you need to. That doesn't sound good.

At least the Mac sometimes usually takes a little bit longer, right? They give it a little bit more time. So there might be more time to work on it. And this is a Mac-only feature, essentially. So there's probably a group that's focused on it because they're not trying to build something that goes across all the OSs. They're building this thing for the Mac.

And, you know, when I criticize stuff, I always hear, for the mac um and and you know i you know when i criticize stuff i always hear like oh but you know there i know there are people who are working on us who are working very hard and in fact i would bet you that there are people who are working on this app who know it isn't very good but it's they've been told to do it and it's their job but whoever makes the decisions about the settings app on the Mac needs to, if they don't know already, they need to be told it's not getting it done.

Yeah, what I've kind of felt like with SwiftUI personally and also from talking to smart developers that I know, is like SwiftUI is really good for building new things. It gets complicated when you want to replace an existing thing with SwiftUI is really good for building new things. It gets complicated when you want to replace an existing thing with SwiftUI currently, right?

Because it's just different. And I'm just surprised that they decided to tackle one of the fiddliest bits of macOS now in SwiftUI. That is just a surprise to me. I could see that it looked like the iPhone, but they've done that for years, right? Like things that look like their iOS, but they're built with AppKit and UIKit

and traditional macOS stuff. It's just a surprise to me that something as fiddly and particular as system preferences was rebuilt using a more new modern technology that consensus says still needs a little bit more work yeah i i'm not convinced that something like the settings app i mean if you can't build the settings app with swift ui then we're really in trouble here i feel like the settings app. I mean, if you can't build the settings app with SwiftUI, then we're really in trouble here. I feel like the settings app is pretty straightforward.

Maybe not. Maybe the settings app is one of our more complicated apps. It doesn't feel like it. It feels like it's pretty simple. So I'm not convinced that laying... How should I phrase this? I don't think we should lay the blame for this on SwiftUI. I think the settings app on the mac is bad

because it was conceived as using the metaphors from ios and that's a very hierarchical metaphor and they're not using the the screen orientation of the mac properly and they decided to make it a single pane that scrolls instead of something a little more complex maybe that's a swift ui thing maybe there's some swift ui issues going on there I just, it feels to me, and I don't know the truth, but all I can say is what it feels like to me. It feels to me that rather than somebody sitting down and saying, what do we want a modern settings app on the Mac to be? Somebody said, here, this is what settings is like on iOS and iPadOS. Do the Mac version of this. And that's the wrong choice.

It's the wrong choice. Having them feel like they're part of the family because people are using all these devices and having them feel similar, I get it. But what's on the Mac now doesn't feel like it makes sense for the Mac at all. It feels like it's being forced into an iOS frame that doesn't fit.

And there's no point in it being like that. This is the Mac settings app. I don't understand at all. This episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph. So you've gone and hired a brilliant developer, and that's awesome. Now you have to do the work to get them onboarded. And if your company's growing, onboarding new developers will be a common occurrence, but also a big undertaking

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As was anticipated when we started recording this episode. As we are recording now, the public betas for all of Apple's OSs are rolling out. And consider our previous segment, our public beta segment that we didn't want to say because we weren't sure. What a surprise. We weren't sure whether, well, Apple rolls,

sometimes Apple says, we're going to roll out the public betas on Monday. And then you get to Monday and they're like, no, no, no, don't, no, not yet, no. Please don't talk about it. Maybe tomorrow, later. We'll let you know. We don't know yet. That has happened, right?

We are ready to push the button. And they're like, it's not like the hardware stuff where they're like, okay, okay, you're going to, at 6 a.m., post the story. Where the betas is like, we'll let you know because they have to be linked on the CDN. And then they say that they're out at 10 a.m., but some people don't see them. I don't see them yet. And they have to wait. But I've been told, I have on good authority, that the public betas are rolling out as we record this. And therefore, please, again, consider our coverage of the developer betas in the previous segment.

That was really our public beta conversation. And you can go read my story about the macOS public beta and Dan Morin's story about the iOS public beta at Six Colors. We were working on those over the weekend. It's the start of a long process that will lead to full reviews in the fall, but it's a start. So, yeah, you can go read more there. But all of that conversation was based in mind of we knew developer beta 3 would be the public beta because it always is.

And we had the idea that it was coming today. So we thought, hey, why not talk about them? So there you go. That was it. Now you know. And by the time you're listening to this, probably, dear listener, you've already seen that there's a public beta

and already treated that comment as public beta related because the beta 3 is basically the public beta. That's generally how that works is the developer beta 3 then gets rolled out to the public. I think they wait a few days to see if anything explodes and then they roll it out to the public. Room around up, Jason Snell. Okay. Yeah. This time

it's all focused on the extreme sports version of the Apple Watch. Now I just want to know Upgradians will know Mark Gurman has been calling this the rugged Apple version of the Apple Watch. Now, I just want to know, Upgradians will know, Mark Gurman has been calling this the rugged Apple Watch, the sports Apple Watch, and we coined the term extreme sports. This is now caught on.

So I'm going to say that that came from us. I know that this was a joke that we made some weeks ago. I'm not saying this is serious, but it is funny to me now. Apple Watch Extreme! Now Mark Gurman is calling it the extreme sports version of the Apple Watch 2. There's more details here, and details I was not expecting. So this comes from a couple of articles. One was a typical Bloomberg article that Mark wrote,

and then another was in the Power On newsletter. So this Apple Watch will have a larger screen than any current Apple Watch. It will be almost two inches diagonally, which is it'll be 7% more screen real estate than the largest watch screen right now. So it's not a huge difference, but it is different.

And I was not expecting that because my expectation is this will probably cause work for Apple Watch app developers just to fully support this. I mean, it depends. It depends to me on whether they are, and I was unclear reading Mark's report,

if the screen's bigger, is it more screen space or is it just that everything's bigger? Right? So if it's the same number of pixels then it doesn't matter right if it's bigger yeah i don't i don't know if he knows because he was saying some stuff right like was saying about like oh and they're putting more stuff on the screens now which will make this this even better. But yeah, I don't know, right? Like, I don't know.

Yeah, I read that with some skepticism because I was trying to say, is he really saying that there's going to be a new screen layout on that thing? Or is he saying it's going to be a little bit bigger, but that's just going to make everything more readable? And I'm not clear on that at all. And I think you could take it to mean that, but I'm not sure on that at all. And, you know, I think you could take it to mean that,

but I'm not sure that I believe that. And again, his wording here is all, you know, there's stuff he seems to know and stuff he's not sure about. And so there's a lot going on here. Well, okay. So I'm trying to work this out by looking at,

this doesn't make any sense, 430 by 352 pixels. And he says 410 by 502 pixels. So that's different. Yeah, if it really is a different screen size. I mean, I'm sure there'll be like a compatibility or something where it just runs in the center, but maybe apps can take advantage of it. Or alternately, maybe there's a system thing that is putting a frame around it that, you know, or only Apple's taking advantage of. I don't know. It's an interesting thought that there might be yet another screen size for Apple

Watch developers to deal with. Yeah. So to say that slightly differently, this is coming from screen sizes, size screens.com. It's just what came up when I googled it. The big one is 484 by 396. And Mark is saying that this would be 502

by 410. Well, that's bigger. So that's different. I'm not sure he knows completely and we don't know completely. But it will's bigger. So that's different. So, but as I'm not sure he knows completely and we don't know completely, but it will be bigger. So that's, I wasn't expecting that. Increased shatter resistance on the display. That would make perfect sense, right?

Sure. Rugged metal casing. Quote, strong metal instead of aluminum. Quote, probably titanium. Marks didn't say this in the report, but said it in the newsletter, right? Probably. You never see probabilities

in a typical Mark Gurman Bloomberg report. I was not expecting metal for this watch. Yeah, yeah. I wasn't either. I mean, Mark's report is interesting in general because it may he makes it sound and and we should say he thinks it's going to be expensive too he thinks it's going to be like i mean he he kind of advocates to call it an apple watch pro which i think is a bad idea but you know who knows apple oh i mean he calls something a pro max in the article he's

that's just one of the many names he throws out there of like it's because in the newsletter he's comparing it to the galaxy watch pro so he refers to it as pro but you know he's he's he's thrown around about five different names for this thing but not names that he uh has heard but names that he thinks it could be yeah but the the idea of a of pro but regardless it's a high-end model and it's sort of like uh replacing the edition with this and that's not necessarily what i thought i mean apple's always gonna try to make its money wherever it can so having this be like a special apple watch that's got super awesome features for people who are sports enthusiasts at a high end level. And they're going to spend more money to get this thing that's super strong and has more battery and maybe has some special modes.

He says at the end, he says something about how like, you know, there may be some features that are just to this that are announced, which I would expect. I would expect that it's got some special features. I was thinking about our friend David Smith and his long, his hiking thing where he tried to take an Apple Watch out into the wilderness. And, you know, the challenge with that is that the Apple Watch really was designed to be charged every day, but you can put it in a low power mode and all that. When Mark Gurman here reports the larger battery as well, I started to think, I wonder if there's a story there where there's basically like a long life mode for the Apple Watch that has some very specific characteristics. And maybe it's easier to take it in and out of that as you use it, but that it will have a larger battery and a longer life mode so that you can use it for longer. And maybe it samples your heart rate and other activity at a slower pace if you're going to be out there for days. I feel like that could be part of the story too. But I am a little surprised like you are about the idea that this is really also a high-end with high-end materials kind of product that they might be saying, well, you know, this new Apple Watch Sport or Extreme

or Pro or whatever is going to be made with this titanium that's light and strong and isn't going to get isn't going to get bashed by um you know when you hit it against a boulder or whatever um interesting i mean like the sales pitch on this you got to admit it's going to be really interesting because like who are they trying to hit with this and is it going to be this sort of like premium high-end sports enthusiast kind of product as opposed to what i was kind of envisioning which maybe is just my lack of vision on this i was kind of envisioning something that would cost more or less like what an apple watch costs but be a variation on it and that's not what mark is proposing at all here he's

proposing a souped up just for sports enthusiasts kind of mega apple watch so my kind of reading on this now is i was like you right like this is going to be a third watch in the lineup and it's focused on a particular market but i think probably what they'll go with now is like you can have a watch which can do anything like it can cope with anything but you don't need to compromise on the look right yeah and it feels like i mean essentially also it's just the high end apple watch right exactly it's not going to look like a g-shocks or something like that it's going to be made of premium material it's going to have a bigger battery it's going to have a bigger screen you know obviously it's going to be bigger and heavier but um it allows them to basically say

this is and if and that would lead to calling it something like pro because it although we've been thinking of it as a extreme fitness version what if it's not right what if it's just a big old apple watch a big old fancy expensive apple watch and it's got a bunch of features maybe for the storytelling that are about extreme levels of of uh of you know activity and and adventure and stuff like that it doesn't maybe change from it being kind of like a mega high-end apple watch and not a kind of derivative for a particular market, which is how I think we've been talking about it all along. Yeah, it's more like, honestly,

it feels to me more like an Apple Watch Max, right? And like, you can do anything, right? Like you can do anything and it's great. Maybe that's it. I like that better than Apple Watch Pro, to be honest, is Apple Watch Max. Pro doesn't make, I mean, honestly, I reckon they'll probably, if they're going to do something, they'll do Pro

because they can't stop using Pro everywhere. But it doesn't make sense to me as like, I'm a professional watch wearer. Like, I don't... That doesn't line up in my mind. I agree. I'm not content creating on my Apple Watch, right? So it's Apple Watch Studio then, is what we're saying.

You use my Apple Watch to, my body is my studio. My, whatever it is, my exercises are my canvas. And so therefore, Apple Watch Studio is for me. As you mentioned, Mark is expecting this to be more expensive than any Apple Watch you can currently buy

in the $900 to $999 category, which makes sense to me if they're going to make it bigger and they're going to put a bigger battery in it. By the way, I reckon the screen's only getting bigger because they want to put a bigger battery in it. I think it started with battery and then they ended up with a bigger screen because they needed a bigger physical case. That would be my expectation.

Right, and maybe they had a conversation about ruggedizing it and people were like, you know, what we should do is make it of a fine, rugged metal, because then people will buy it aspirationally and wear it as a regular Apple Watch. Whereas if it looks like a big, plasticky, super extreme watch, you're not going to wear it to dinner, right? If it is made of the fluoroelastomer stuff

that they make the sport bands out of, which I was kind of hoping it would be because it'd be fun, it's going to look like either A, a sports watch or B, a kid's watch, right? And I think they probably don't want to do that, right? That would be my expectation in reading these reports. This pricing thing has led to a lot of people

thinking that Apple's going to get rid of the Edition. I don't think they are. I think the Series 8 will still have an Edition model. I have a hard time believing they won't offer... I mean, whether they call it Edition or not, like, offering stainless steel and titanium as materials doesn't... It's a chance to sell literally

the same product for a lot more. And for people who want to buy the nicer material and who might not want to buy this particularly high-end watch. Because with the Series 7, they stopped breaking it out into its own product. Apple Watch Edition used to be kind of like its own thing, like in the ceramic and titanium. But now when you just go to the buy page, it's just a material option, basically.

It's titanium and it's called edition. It's not broken out in the same way. It's kind of like Hermes, right? They're not going to stop making the Hermes either. So I kind of just feel like all of those fit under Series 7 or Series 8 it will be, right? Because it's just different materials for that watch type and then the apple watch max will be its own thing and honestly could also have a set of different materials right like who knows like

all all markers officially said is strong metal which is a fun thing for me. But then reference titanium as a probably. I mean, because it would be interesting to me if they made this out of titanium and then also continued to make a Series 8 in titanium. I feel like if they're going to make this out of titanium, they need to make an addition out of something else. Hopefully they go back to ceramic because I miss the ceramic. I wanted to mention also, just because I don't know this category very well at all i'm looking at the g-shock uh website casio and you know i always think of them as like plastic or rubberized kind

of things and you can buy plasticky g-shocks for 140 bucks but like you can also buy a G-Shock for $800, $1,100, $1,200 that are kind of special, carbon fiber reinforced, etc. And like you think Apple doesn't look at this spread of products and go, well, I know where we're going. We're going up there, right? We're not going to the $110 plastic one. We're going to the $1,000 fancy one and doing it there. So, yeah, this fascinating little tidbit, like it doesn't seem like Mark Gurman knows everything about this product, but it is coming more into focus as a high end, not, not like you said, not coated in like fluoroelastomer. And it's like, if you drop it, it bounces back up into your hand kind of thing. Right.

If you drop it, it bounces back up into your hand kind of thing, right? Like it's a Super Bowl with an Apple Watch inside, but more that it's a high-end Apple Watch that has some features that are going to fit the storytelling of the sports focus of the Apple Watch, which kind of makes sense. But you could also just buy one if you want a bigger Apple Watch with a bigger battery and all of that. You can just buy it and wear it, and it'll look nice. And that sounds right to me. That sounds much more plausible.

To celebrate the summer of fun, we're going to do a quick draft. Quick draft. Jason had an idea that we're going to draft app icons. We are. This is, we've been very, we haven't really shared a lot of like, what are the rules? We don't have rules. It's just, we're just going to pick our favorite app icons. Yeah, that's it. I would like to go first.

Yeah, you get to go first. I suggested this draft, so I'm going to let you go first. And I took a look at my iPhone home screen, took a look at my iPad home screen, and then also consulted a book that I own, which I backed from a Kickstarter campaign called the iOS App Icon Book. So I spent some time today going through that

and looking at some of the best app icons in all of iOS history for this today. Yeah. And so I feel like I want to start with something really classic and also maybe to steal one from you. And I'm going to go with Twitterific. Oh. and also maybe to steal one from you. And I'm going to go with Twitterific. Oh, for people who don't know, the Twitterific bluebird predates Twitter

using a bluebird as its icon. They got the idea. Twitterific not only did that, they defined, Craig Hagenberry defined the term tweets. Like, there's a reason there's only one third-party app that gets to use the word Twitter in its name still. Yeah.

Because Twitter kind of owes them. They helped build the service. Shall we? Yeah, exactly. And it was on my list. It was second on my list because it's a great icon. It comes in lots of variations. But that blue bird, it's great because it's a great icon it comes in lots of variations um but that

blue bird um it's great that was it's a it's a it's a great icon you know some of my favorite app icons are variations of the you know like that are available inside of apps but like i just think any version of this because it's like also every twitter app also has some other kind of blue bird like everyone but like it all started here and also is made by like one of if not the definitive icon design companies as well right like this just felt to me is like so many things converging to be like this is one of the best i agree it was very high up on my list um now you were looking at the app icon book and looking at iOS icons I'm just going to say my next pick is a Mac icon there's a lot of Mac icons in that book too

okay that's good well I'm going to go for a classic introduced in the oh when was it in the OS 8 I want to say, days? There was a point when the clones came in where Apple needed to do some branding around macOS because macOS was no longer just running on Macs. It was running on clones. But they were running macOS, so there needed to be branding, and Apple has kept macOS branding all along. And one of the things they introduced at the time was an interesting icon that was a face, but also a face looking the other direction. And it's now the Finder icon. So I'm going to choose the Finder, which is also the classic macOS icon.

Oh, man. As my choice. That's a good one. My first choice. The Finder. That's a good one. The smiley faces. It's like a person looking to their

right and maybe kissing somebody on the side of their face or it's a face facing forward it's both things at once it's like hey buddy you know comes in love you i'm gonna pick one that I think this icon does a very good job of showing off one of my favorite app designs of all time as well. Clear. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I think Clear is one of the most beautiful apps ever made. It was a to-do app. It was just wonderful design in and out.

It was just wonderful design in and out. And the app icon itself just does a great job of showing that like the heat map kind of look that the app originated. So yeah, what does the clear app icon look like? It's a checkbox? Checkbox with like oranges to red. Not like a gradient, but like little segments. Well, like with the six colors rainbow, it's that kind of thing. It's striped. It's a gradient, but it's in the six colors rainbow it's that kind of thing it's striped of it's a gradient but it's in in like six stripes yeah or five stripes yeah and i think it does a

great job of of showing off the design that's inside uh because i think i think it's just it's one of my favorite app designs ever and the icon just is so simple but so well made um yeah big fan in looking at uh all these apps for this draft i did have i'm sure you did too this question of like well what do i like in an app icon sure because there are lots of apps i use all the time and they have icons that are recognizable and like from a purely functional perspective having an app that your brain can can assign to pattern matching so you can see it and know that that's the app and maybe have some feelings about it but like it has a being an app with an icon like the icon has a job to do but what i found when i was looking for this

draft i kept thinking like just like a a thing with a with a a letter on it or or a couple of letters on it like doesn't doesn't really excite me i kind of want it to be um have a have a symbol and have it be clever in some way that was sort of what i was i realized that was was working for me um and i i don't know what did you think did you come up with a as you were looking a kind of working definition of what is a good app in your terms? I think it honestly is like something that felt iconic in a way. So I think for me, it was... Your best icons are iconic, you're saying. Yes, I think so.

I mean, so I wasn't looking for like company logo or letters. Oh yeah, for sure. So for me, it was something that either really strongly evoked the app and or did what you were just mentioning about unequivocally says what this app is. So the next one that I'm going to pick is an example of that if you don't pick it before me. But yeah.

All right. With my next pick, I picking maps apple maps wow okay i really like the apple maps icon and have liked it through history because it says what it is but in a in a visual way it's got the it's got a little blue dot it's got a little arrow and also i like it for the detail here which is if people don't know, the Apple Maps icon used to be the vicinity of Infinite Loop. The actual like Interstate 280 and the exit and Infinite Loop. And now it's the vicinity of Apple Park. And it's the Wolf Road exit now on the far side of Apple Park.

And the little curve of Apple Park is up in the corner. And I like that it looks like map elements, but it's also something that I can see at a glance and know that it's the Maps app. And I really love the detail of the fact that it's the actual map area of the Apple campus. That's a good one. In that similar vein of like an app icon

telling you what it is i'm gonna go fantastical sure it's just like a very nice design um like with the colors that exist inside of the the kind of calendar squares but it just looks like a calendar like i like it but it doesn't look like a calendar in such a way that like it looks like it's pretending to be a real calendar you know like it's not got that skeuomorphism which you know i think had it time in its place and and i like the kind of where we are now a lot with design where there's a little bit of texture back but we're not trying to pretend to be something we're not um one of the things i'm always struck at when i see screenshots from iPhones, like iPhone 6 and early. All of the screens looked dark

because everyone was putting shadows on everything. So everything just looks muddy to me. There's a clarity that's lost. But anyway, I think Fantastic Hour did a good job with their transition from skeuomorphic to more flat design, but still keeping some character in their app icon that's nice it's funny

on the Mac I have it displaying with the current date which honestly I don't need because I have the current date up in the top so that's what I should do is I should like turn it off I should just have it be high date on app icon

oh look at that in the settings i can make it yeah that's a lot better that's a good one i like it um i huh there are so many and we're and we're only doing five here um i'm gonna go with another Mac app. Um, Hmm. Am I, am I though, you know,

I'm going to go with overcast, uh, classic. Okay. Like I, I use overcast as my podcast player. So I see that, that icon a lot,

but I like it. I like that icon a lot. But I like it. I like that it's orange. I use the orange one. I don't use the dark one. I like the orange background. I was very happy when I got to be able to set the orange icon when using the dark theme. Yes, right. Instead of changing.

Because I missed out on the orange icon for a long time. It's very simple. It's a little broadcast transmitter with a little orange radio waves waving out, if you know that. If not, I think it's still, you know, you could think of that as a speaker playing music, if you aren't thinking of it as from the broadcast metaphor. background behind it um very easy to pick out and also again an icon uh i guess technically it's got a letter in it if you consider that circle an o i don't so there oh no i wouldn't have i don't think it's meant to be right no it's not it's not but i'm just saying that the most that that's the most generic form of icon is that it's a it's a colored uh round racked with a letter in it like like the app store icon which i would put in the hall of fame for worst icons of all time because one of the things i like about the overcast um logo icon i should say um is that it

is also evocative of the other apps in the category that came before. Yes. The idea of like a transmission tower. Yeah. Yeah, it's that metaphor, the podcast metaphor. Which was featured in Apple Podcasts and Instacast and all of those kinds of apps as well. I'm going to go with Carrot Weather next. Interesting.

What I like about Carrot Weather a lot is there are loads of app icon choices, and they're all pretty fun. I use one called Neon Dream, but I just really like the design. I think that it does a good job of choice because the app itself does a good job of choice. So you can choose to have something that's kind of robotic looking if you like the app to be robotic, right?

And having its kind of personality. But there's also a bunch of alternate options which can be more iconic, more customizable. I like it. I just think it's a nice, simple icon, does a good job, and has a bunch of really good options.

And mine is Neon Dream is my favorite. I love it. I prefer the simpler logo that's just the cloud with the lightning bolt coming out of it, as opposed to the robot. Yeah. The neon, the one I use is a variation of just the cloud and lightning bolt. It doesn't have any of the robot features.

I think that's a better way to go. I agree. I'm going to have to change my icon now in care of weather. There you go. See? To something that I prefer because you know, that's me. I'm going to,

I think I'm going to go with something more orange too. Cause you know, again, it looks nice. It's nice to have an orange one. Pumpkin guts. It is excellent. Um,

okay. My next icon is going to be, this is a, this is an esoteric app, although our friends use it. But I love it as an icon. Oh, I know what it's going to be. Working Copy. That's not what I thought it was going to be. No, I didn't think so. Okay.

Working Copy is a, it's like a GitHub app, a GitHub client. It's basically, or is it more broadly, it may just be version control on the iPad. But I love its icon because its icon is a fingerprint. It looks like Touch ID. With dots. It does look kind of like touch ID. And I like, I can always spot work and copy.

I know exactly what it looks like, but I also like that. It's this, it's a, it's an image. It's not W. WC is not like, yeah,

just put a toilet on there and it's good. It's fine. I just, I like it. I like that it, that the, it's good. It's fine. Uh, I, I just, I, I like it. I like that it, that the, uh,

it's a dark background with a little bit of a frame, but the, the real core is that it's got the, um, the fingerprint with the points going from end to end, which is, I'm sure a very nice metaphor. Um,

so there you go. Love it. All right. My final pick, I'm going to award a few things here for my final pick. Love it. All right. My final pick. I'm going to award a few things here for my final pick. Like it's one choice, but there's a few things. One designed by a friend of mine.

So nepotism. Okay. An app made by a friend of mine. Dear sir, I was outraged to discover your nepotism. Well, you know, what can I say?

And I really like apps that allow for options. PCalc. Oh, well, congratulations to James Thompson for having his calculator chosen as a winner of whatever this is. I like the six colors one a lot. I think it's nice. I like that James has a bunch of just like fun ones. There's icons for like various representation.

Like there's lots of like flags in there. You've got wild ones. You've got furry ones, all kinds of stuff's going on in here. I like it. And I think that the app icon itself is just really nice. Like the 42. I like that it isn't a little calculator, actually,

because for some reason I'm breaking my own rule. Yeah, I'm a fan. Plus, I was partly responsible for there being so many icons in pCalc because I convinced James that he should do it and charge people for it. So there you go, pCalc. I did not consider PCalc because it breaks my rule of just being an icon

with, in this case, numbers in it, which it is a calculator. It's fair. And it is 42, which is also fair. My new rule is I have no rules. Okay, that works.

That works. I am going to choose Bartender. Oh. That's my lack. Bartender is a utility on the Mac that lets you tend to your menu bar and hide menu bar items you don't want to see or expand them when you do want to see them. And it's icon. I love it. It's hilarious.

It is the rounded rect is the black of the suit jacket. It's there's a V and then there's a, you know, dress shirt underneath. And then at the very top is the black bow tie. It is the, the, it is what the bartender wears at a formal event.

And I think it's adorable. And I love, I just love the attention to detail. I think it is a elegant kind of icon. It is a, it is a, on some levels, it's kind of a joke, right? It's like, get it, bartender? And yet it's so well executed. And it also, you know, the little collar of the shirt pokes out of the round rack, right?

Like it's not completely flat on the top. Which is one of the great things about Mac apps is that they can be arbitrary shapes. Yeah, so good. Did a good job with that one. Yeah, I like that one a lot. I like the bartender app a lot. Did you have any extras that you want to mention

that we didn't pick? Yeah, deliveries I really like. Tweetbot, the New Year's variant I like. I didn't like when Tweetbot made the bird look angry, but the New Year's variant i like i didn't like when tweet bot made the bird look angry um but the new year's one is nice uh and craft specifically a variation that they have which is a kind of pink and blue gradient background that would be the ones that i had on my little uh list here i had net newswire which has gone through many many icons, but it has kept the idea of a satellite that's beaming things to you. I think that's a nice metaphor and also instantly recognizable.

I like that they didn't just go with a version of the RSS logo. Sure. No, it's a totally different concept. Transmit from Panic, which is, you know, it's that truck. The truck. It's that truck. The yellow's that truck. The truck. It's that truck. The yellow and blue truck. The truck. It's iconic and great.

Automator. It's got a robot holding a metal thing. It's adorable. Apple would never let anybody get away with this now. And all they did when they updated to the new style where there's the round wrecks is they just put the round wreck behind the robot, whatever the automated logo for me.

I don't like it. Cause it's threatening. It's like, he's got a pipe and he's going to bash me. He's going to pipe. It's yeah. Maybe. Maybe that's why I like it so much.

You make me do all this work. I'm coming for you kid. That's what I think. When I look at this, this little icon here an app i use all the time but rarely see the icon of is actually a launch bar but what i like about it is that it it's like almost like a uh it's kind of cryptic but like it's an l and a b for like launch bar it is sort of the l and the b but it's also a circle that goes into an arrow and it's

also got that kind of step gradient from from orange, uh, orange to a yellow of the arrow. It's very pretty. Um, and I like that it's the logo is the name of the app, but you also don't need to see that to get what it is, which I think is very clever. And, um, my last one, I just wanted to do a shout out to a an icon that makes me laugh every time i launch it and that's the icon for vlc which is a road cone what does that mean i don't know why it's a cone i'm sure there's a story it's like is it because it's constantly under development and it's because it's dangerous it's because you shouldn't i don't know i just love that it's a cone because it makes me laugh again is it a good icon i don't know does it does it properly represent the app no not at all which is probably why it's not a good icon and yet it does make me laugh so that's got to be worth something this episode is brought to you by capital one

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Brian says, my Apple Watch will sometimes throw up hand washing or workout suggestions or alerts while I'm doing things that are not hand washing or workout suggestions or alerts while i'm doing things that are not hand washing or working out do you have any situations where your watch will detect something that's different from the reality of the situation um i turn the hand washing thing off okay um workout suggestions yes oh really sometimes sometimes i will get that i've been getting workout suggestions lately that are i mean it, it's helpful when it recognizes it. My bigger frustration is that I will sometimes be out on a walk and it doesn't notice. And it's like, you surely have noticed that I left my house and have been walking and my heart rate is updated.

And sometimes it doesn't catch on for quite a while. And when it logs me, it's not logging the beginning of the walk. So it obviously missed some of it. I'm a little bit baffled by that. Um, so that happens. I also get frustrated by the, are you done working out?

That sometimes happens. And it's like, no, I'm not done. Oh, that's rough. I haven't had that one before. So are you done?

And it's like, you, you, you seem to be going slower or being like, are you done working on? I'm not done. Shut up. It's like, Hey Jason, it feels like you've given up it's like. You seem to be going slower or being, and it's like, are you done working on? I'm not done working. Shut up. It's like, hey, Jason,

it feels like you've given up at this point. You've given up now, right? Would you like to give up officially? No, I don't want to give up officially. Well, let me, and let me tell you the, there is a workout type for curling. And you know, you're sweeping. You can get your heart rate pretty elevated,

but you know, curling is like, it goes in cycles and you're shooting and then you're sweeping. Um, and it, it, it is not set to, it keeps asking me like between ends,

like, are you, are you done curling now? I was like, no, I'm not done. It's just, I'm not,

it's not like running. It's not like I'm sprinting all the time, but I'm still doing it. And they should, uh, they should tweak that a little bit for all the people who use the curling workout, which I get a kick out of.

Cause it's hilarious to use the curling workout on the Apple Watch. But anyway, I don't have – that's about it. You know, I very rarely get something other than the, you know, the false negatives of, are you done? And I wish it was better at doing the, you know, I figured out that you were taking a walk, so I logged it for you thing. But it often misses it until it's like way too late. I had one, Adina had one the other day, which is intriguing. It's a big problem, but it's just funny. We were outside, we were walking somewhere, and it said, it looks like you're walking indoors.

Would you like to record an indoor workout? And I'm not sure how it got that one messed up, you know? Like, what's so different about an indoor and outdoor walk and why did it get those wrong? That was just weird. For me, washing dishes. I get the hand washing thing a lot. Obviously, right? That one kind of makes sense.

One that really annoyed me for a while, you know, it has the noise detection one, you know, like always you're in a loud environment. I had this on for a while. I thought it'd be good, you know, it has the noise detection one, you know, like, oh, so you're in a loud environment. I had this on for a while, so that'd be good, you know, I would like to know if I'm in places which are bad for my ears, right? Maybe I could do something about them. But it would trigger every time I used a hand dryer. And I found that to be particularly frustrating, considering you knew I just washed my hands because I used the hand washing thing. So I feel like a natural thing to do is if someone has washed their hands, don't worry about the audio, like the noise detection for like the next minute

because they're going to be using a hand dryer. So it's the air blowing into the microphone, right? Makes it think it's super loud or just because they are loud. And I just found going to be using a hand dryer. So it's the air blowing into the microphone, right? Makes it think it's super loud or just because they are loud. And I just found that to be really annoying every time. It's like, oh, you're in a loud environment. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I just drive my hands.

That's all. Vij asks, I had an operation yesterday. I hope you're okay, Vij. I really hope you're okay, Yig. I really hope you're okay. I woke up this morning and my Apple Watch was bugging me about completing my rings since I hadn't yesterday. I am, of course, going to be taking a rest day today and probably tomorrow.

Shouldn't that be an option Apple gives you? Yeah, I have several friends who are committed to closing their rings who have complained about this um the idea that you invite you to the idea of coronavirus which is a thing that many of us are having also i think i think the idea streaks in general i think streak forgiveness is a thing that should happen that sometimes it's like, oh, you've gone 22 straight days. And you know what? Not every day is going to be for this. I get the idea of wanting to motivate you, but having the ability as a human being to be like, no, today is my break day because you don't know. I had an operation or I'm sick or whatever it is. or whatever it is. And, you know, I'm not saying you should be able to skip three weeks and have it keep your streak, right?

That doesn't make sense. But the idea of a rest day and programming a rest day in potentially or saying, no, this is my rest day. I'm not going to go for a run today. That would be helpful. Yeah, I had that related. I had that where I, okay, long story short,

everything's fine. This was like a month ago. I was running and I fell and I bruised my ribs. It sucks. They still hurt. But the next day as I'm icing and heating and icing and taking as many pain, you know, as much Tylenol and Advil as I'm allowed to take and I'm sitting there not doing anything. My Apple Watch is like, you seem to be getting a slow start on the day.

You can still do it. And I'm like, shut up, Apple Watch. And there's no way, and I get it. I get it, it's software. All it can do is what it can do because it's dumb and it's software. But there are cases where you kind of want the human touch. You kind of want to say like,

I'm not going to be active today and let it be like, okay, I'll check in with you tomorrow. And I know from especially active people, I know that the drive to do it every day, like it can be good as a motivator. It can also run into these moments where it's like, you know what? It's not appropriate today. Let's take this as a skip day and it's okay and we'll give you a skip day we're going to keep your streaks alive it's it's okay because you you um you're only human and you might not want to do it every day this isn't like some official global competition we're doing this is just for me like yeah if i give myself a day and it tells me I've still kept my streak going, nothing's affected.

It's just for me. So why can't I do that? I lost my longest move streak because I was on a transatlantic flight. I flew. I flew from California, I think. Yeah, I flew from California. And by the time that I landed, it reset to the next day. And I didn't have enough time in the day to accumulate the rest of my streak points,

even though I tried. So now they do that calculation, and they recalculate it all. That annoys me too, the way that they do the calculation of date math. They recalculate all the points and assign them to the other days rather than split yeah it's annoying i find it really annoying but anyway they should have a rest day option and honestly i can't believe they haven't done it by now it's just not healthy like in my opinion you push people all the time

anyway wes asks is there any news on how the new shared photo library will treat iCloud family storage? Will each library have its own copy of a photo, taking double the space, or is there going to be linked against the same photo? Do you know any of this stuff right now? Does anybody? Yeah, the person who creates the iCloud family shared library,

it goes toward their space. It doesn't double up if you're on a family plan or whatever, or even sharing with somebody who's not in a family. Their space doesn't get charged. You get charged for all the photos that are placed in the shared library. It doesn't, will each library have some copy of the photo? No, there are two libraries.

There's the shared and the not shared. And so you can view them all individually or you can view them merged, but they're not doubling. They're in one or they're in the other. So can you, so help me understand this a bit more. So let's imagine we're a family and you've created the shared,

we have created the shared library. If I want to contribute things to the shared library, do I have to like push them to the library? But then it counts on your storage for everybody else in the family. Yeah, it counts on my storage. Family, it's all shared, so it doesn't matter. But if we're not in a family together, which you and I aren't, and yet we decide we're the ones who are going to share the library.

I believe even when you move those photos into the shared library, they go off of your ledger and onto mine. Oh, okay. That's how that works. Right. Okay. I think that's how it works.

I have another question about, uh, iCloud shared photo libraries from Florian. Do you know if it's going to support full image quality? Yes. This is a full straight up iCloud photo library. So it's full image quality. It's not like the old shared libraries that were kind of like partial.

Or photo stream. That was like a thing. You remember that? There was photo stream and camera roll. Camera roll, photo stream. And then the current sharing, which is if you, it's complicated. There are some sharings where it is reduced. And there's some sharings where it's not,

depending on how you do it. Because you can share with iCloud versus making a shared album. The shared library is totally different and it is essentially a second iCloud photo library that is shared between people, among people. And it's got all your stuff in it so it's and you can choose right as the other one every photo you take is put in there or just

smart there's a lot of detail there and and uh it wasn't even put in until developer beta 3 so it's something that i have to spend a lot more time with in order to write and about. But yes, there are, you can dump everything in there. You can dump everything in taken after a certain date. So like if it's like you and your partner, but your partner only wants to contribute, you know, from the day you met forward, like that's fine. That's allowed. And then there are a bunch of other things you can do. You can contribute manually. There are things where it will try to do detection to say like, this is when you were all together. So I'm going to share, you can set to share these photos. It can prompt you to say, do you want to share these photos into the group? There's lots of different stuff going on because

Apple didn't want to make this a all or nothing kind of thing. But they also didn't want to make it nothing happens unless you choose to. They wanted to make it automatable if you choose to share some kinds of photos. So there's lots of different choices going on behind the scenes and I got to spend more time with it. But they're trying to make it more complex, which is bad in a way, but it's good in another way because I think what they're trying to think of as use cases where somebody's going to say, no, I'm not going to share all my photos with you. So it's like, okay, well, what would make it easier to share a reasonable set of photos that are worth sharing across different people's libraries? So for example, my daughter could get on our family

shared library. She's obviously not going to be sharing photos of her out partying with her friends with us, right? Like it's not going to happen. Embarrassing photos, things she doesn't want, but it may do things like you can set it up to detect when she's visiting us and, or when we take a trip together and that those will either be put in our shared library or will be offered to her as since you work together, do you want I are going to just like turn this on and be like, okay, because right now I have to import all the photos from her camera into my Mac because, you know, they're not shared. But then when she goes to build our calendar every year, she's like, she wants the photos she took and the photos I took. So we have to do that. But a lot of people aren't going to do that. And that's fine. This is set up to allow a lot of granularity there. And we'll get into it. I'm going to spend the summer sharing,

probably sharing photos with myself on another account just to test this out. Won't that be exciting? Yeah, I'm happy they're doing it this way because I feel like I would want, like with me and Idina, we only really need to share stuff of each other right now where we are together.

Or we would share them manually. Because like, hey, I think you might want these images. But she doesn't need every photo I take and I don't need every photo she takes. Well, that's the idea. And so you can set it up where there's certain categories or certain types. And then you also always have the ability to just say, put this photo in the share

or select a bunch and say, put these in the share and do it manually. I think Apple just wants to make it so that they can make it easier than that, right? Because that's not that much fun to say, every so often I have to go and select all my photos and move them over. And they want to make it more magical than that if they can. If you would like to ask us a question

for us to answer on the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag AskUpgrade or use question mark AskUpgrade in the RelayFM members Discord. Thank you so much to our members who help support the show and to Capital One, Sourcegraph and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode. If you want to find Jason online, go to sixcolors.com. You will find some great articles there from Jason and Dan

about all of the new betas for public betas for consumption that are available now. You can find Jason. He is at Jason L on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L. I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. And we'll be back next week. Don't forget, if you've still gotten here and you've not gone to upgradeyourwardrobe.com to buy yourself a t-shirt, you better do it before it's too late. It could already be too late. And if you didn't do it, I'm sorry.

We've reminded you, I think, four times. So, you know, what do you want from us? Wednesday, July 13th is the last day. Get it then or be sad. You just heard from the t-shirt ghost. And, you know, the t-shirt ghost, you know it's bad. I was a t-shirt nobody bought.

I'm not available. Say goodbye, Jason Snow. Goodbye.