Upgrade - 419: Modemtown

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

Thanks to the M2 MacBook Air, Myke has decided to live a two-laptop lifestyle. We ponder the rumored delay of iPadOS 16, whether it's a good or bad thing, and what form a new iPad Pro might take.

From RelayFM, this is Upgrade, episode 419. Today's show is brought to you by Sourcegraph, Hover, and CleanMyMac X. My name is Mike Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Hi, Mike Hurley. I have a hashtag Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell. Hi, Mike Hurley. I have a hashtag Snell talk question for you. All right. Comes from Instantiate This

and they asks, if you were in a car chase with the police, what song do you put on to keep you going? Interesting premise. Again, I will say, I choose to interpret this as that I am chasing the police because they're bad police.

Or I'm teaming up with the police to chase bad people. Is this Sting or not Sting? Different police. Oh, I love that. So we're in a car chase. The bank robbers are getting away. But I'm driving and Sting is in the passenger seat. Yeah.

And Stuart Copeland and Andy Summers are in the back seat. I like it. What? They're going to complain. Well, yeah, I should really put on, you know, Every Breath You Take at that point or something, because they're going to be like, actually, no, they don't want to hear it.

They've heard it too many times. My funny answer that I thought of as part of this, of course, is to lean on the Beverly Hills Cop. I immediately thought, well, The Heat Is On by Glenn Frey is the perfect answer here. Because every 80s car chase was basically The Heat Is On. And if instantiate this as the actual answer of something that wants to get me kind of pumped, it would be probably from the Bob Mould catalog. Like the Act We Act by Sugar,

or maybe Something I Learned Today by Husker Du, something that's really loud and shouty and is going to get me pumped up to drive that car and do whatever with the police that will happen next. Probably an impromptu concert at a coffee house after we catch the bad guy. There'll be like a fruit cart will be overturned. A fire hydrant will be clipped.

Water will be spewing up. But the bad guy will be led away by the cops. And the police and I will be hanging out in front of a coffee house next to the fire hydrant. Interesting. And playing a message in a bottle. What about Born to be Wild? It feels like a good one. Maybe overplayed.

Not my style. I'm going to go with the punky Husker Du sugar kind of stuff. If you would like to send in a question for us to open an episode. Summer of fun. Summer of fun. As you can tell, we could answer just about anything. Send out a tweet with the hashtag snell talk use question mark snell talk in the relay fm members discord which is something that

you get access to by the way if you subscribe to upgrade plus go to get upgrade plus.com and you will be able to sign up for five dollars a month if it's a year you get tons of great benefits like access to relay fFM members Discord. I think primarily for Upgrade Plus, you get extra content. This time you will hear us, well, you will hear Jason talk me through setting up a complex shortcut for podcast editing notes.

That's what we do on Upgrade Plus today. If you wonder what on earth does that mean, go to getupgradeplus.com. Jason, it seems to me like there is an awful lot of stuff going on with hbo and discovery right now because i see people talking about it a lot there's a lot a lot of misinformation a lot of accurate information okay what's going on and i want to know in advance of this will you be talking about this on the next downstream well only the downstream show document will will know that for sure.

And I am working on that later today because we record tomorrow. But yeah, it may be entirely what we talk about next time on there is what is going on with Warner Brothers Discovery and what's happening with HBO Max and what is David Zaslav doing over there. And I saw, what was it? John Oliver last night said said i get the distinct impression that my network is being burned down for the insurance money because i feel like there are sometimes these things happen and like only julia can explain this to me you know and so all right i'm looking forward to it because i've been seeing a lot of spread like some slides going around twitter i don't really understand what's happening oh the slides are a thing to behold there is one slide in particular involving an arrow

that goes into like a box and that explains that it's like streaming and it's like okay uh but yeah there's some amazing i i'll just say i feel like listening to the call about financials, where they're trying to talk to the money people, it's a lot like Apple stuff, right? You got to filter it through the fact that they're talking to the money people, they're talking to the investors, they're talking to Wall Street, they know that they've got a big debt, what are they going to do? What's their strategy? What happens to the stock price? And of course, the CEO wants the stock price to go up and not down. So he's going to spin everything he's doing in that call for Wall Street and speak the language that they understand, which is incomprehensible PowerPoint slides. So that's not quite.

So, yes, the creative side and the consumer side will take the wrong message away from that. And he's going to have to deal with the fallout of that. But they were speaking a different message to Wall Street than they're going to speak to the creators of the stuff that they're doing. But still, there's a lot. I feel like it's simultaneously what they're doing is overstated in terms of how terrible it is and yet on another level accurate. So we'll see what Julius says. Yep. So you can go to relay.fm slash downstream,

and that's where you'll go to get that wonderful podcast, and you'll hear more about it. I have some follow-up. We did follow-up. No, I have follow-up. Okay. So we had spoken about Apple ditching their plans to create their own modems, right?

We were talking about they were having a bunch of problems with that. Well, I mean, they're delaying, right? They bought the whole Intel business and all of that and have been working on it. But there was that report that said, I think Ming-Chi Kuo was saying, it's not going to be in next year's iPhones. They've had to push it back. They were hoping to get it in next year's iPhones. Didn't happen.

They're going to have to use qualcomm parts for that and their apple built chief you know 5g stuff is gonna have to come later well it seems that they are still very committed to this idea in new different new and wonderful ways because they've just purchased 67 acres of land from hp which is funny because i think i think apple park was built on hp land as well which is just kind of funny it was formerly hp yeah so they bought 67 acres of land from hp to build new facilities north of san diego uh and the expectation is this is going to be for modems because apparently this is modem town qualcomm is around yeah well qualcomm is in uh in san in San Diego. They're just north of San Diego. And this is a little further north of downtown San Diego, but it's in the vicinity. offices in Waterloo, Ontario, right next to QNX and BlackBerry, because when you're hiring away people from the competition to build something, it's awfully nice if you've got a facility right

next to them so they don't have to uproot their family. And so Apple has continued with what I believe Intel did originally, which is if you're going to beat Qualcomm and you're going to beat Qualcomm, you got to set up shop in San Diego because that's where Qualcomm is. Yep. Good place. Who would want to leave San Diego? I think that's the bigger point there is who would want to actually leave San Diego for anywhere else? I mean, I did, but I graduated from college and had to get a job, but otherwise I would

not have left because it's great. So more Apple. I love that they had a press release that's like, oh, Apple's been a part of San Diego for several decades. And when I was in college, there was a big building not too far away from our college campus that had a big rainbow Apple logo at the top of it. Apple has been a part. I don't know what was in it at that point. But yeah, Apple's been in San Diego for a very long time, on and off at least. And so, yeah, they're expanding. Keep in mind, they already have space.

I don't know if they're going to leave that space or what, but they're in Mira Mesa where Qualcomm is. But they're doing this. So good job, San Diego people. We got some Apple there. San Diego people. We got some Apple there. There are also some more hints of always-on screens, code being found in the latest Xcode beta potentially for the next iPhones.

Steve Moser uncovered some evidence of lock screen widgets changing their appearance. So they're dimmed or like color is removed from them. Yeah, this is, and what's really interesting about this is, and then also like the clownfish has a different appearance. And I initially thought that this was the dimming. Because when a phone goes into sleep mode, it does dim everything. But what's interesting is the dimmed media files that people are finding are not what is displayed in sleep mode.

They're different, which is weird. Like the clownfish image in sleep mode, it looks like it's got an opacity in front of it, 20% or whatever, where it's dimmed. Whereas this dimmed clownfish has the colors removed from it, a very specific kind of color profile so so it looks very much like what we already suspected which is apple is working on all the assets to make it so that there is a an additional mode that would presumably be the always on mode where it dims itself and the color drops out and the brightness drops out but you can still see it in a kind of high contrast way on the oled display of the new iphones jason I wanted to talk a little bit more about the MacBook Air.

Because, I mean, I think I referenced this. I had one for a couple of weeks that Apple sent me. I now have my own. And I wanted to give a little bit more about, a little more of my thoughts about that whole experience and why I have decided to own a MacBookbook air of my own it's nice i will say for the record i got my uh purchased midnight macbook air last week as well um so we both got a a midnight macbook air in our lives now well look at us fingerprint pals

yeah the midnight midnight look here's the thing i'll start with that right i think it's the best color yeah oh yeah i wanted it yeah yeah and and does it show you does it show fingerprints heck yeah it absolutely does i don't care that my my old black macbook showed fingerprints too i don't care it is different from all the other Mac laptops. It looks different. It looks really nice. I like it when it looks black. And I just had this happen in my house where I showed it to Lauren and I said, look, it's actually blue, but it looks black.

And she's like, it just is black. I'm like, okay, but I'm telling you. And she's like, no, it's just black. I'm like, all right. So I lay it down and then it's like the next day and the light is different coming into the room and all that. And she's sitting on the couch looking at the coffee table where it's sitting and she goes, oh, it is blue. Yeah. Yep.

That's the color of this MacBook Air is that it's black until you realize that it's actually blue, but only a little bit. It's black. Yeah, it looks great. And when it's open and it's just all the whole dark, the dark keys and the dark surface and the dark screen and the dark bezels like it looks really nice i like it a lot so the one that apple sent me um was the eight gigabytes of ram model and i was thinking like this was going to be potentially problematic because i had some issues with the original MacBook Pro and it had my mine had 16 gigabytes of RAM and it ran out of it used to tell me it was running out of memory a lot I think I was talking about that at the time but my iMac never did it but I thought maybe this would

and I didn't have any issues with that at all I expect that the swap was doing its job pretty well but because I was using a variety of apps open all the time I have tons of apps open, I should leave them open, why not, I'll leave them open and it was doing a good enough job, but it was maxing out I could see for mine, I got 24GB of RAM in my MacBook Air because I just want to not think about it for years it's just going to have what it has and it's going to just run its course. Now for me with this computer, I am doing the majority of my work on it.

So we're talking just general work stuff, email, calendars, notes, research. I do stuff with Photoshop, Pixelmator, like all of this stuff. It's basically everything that I may possibly do that isn't recording or editing a podcast will be done on that MacBook Air. It's previously been done on my MacBook Pro, and then my iMac was my recording and editing computer. And I thought, right, I'm just going to go headfirst into this MacBook Air and just see what it can handle. I couldn't tell any difference between it and my MacBook Pro. I just couldn't. If I wanted to do something audio editing-wise,

sure, I'd see the difference, but I don't do anything there. If I want to start crunching on a file and converting an MP3 or whatever, I'm going to see it, but I'm not doing any of that here. And so where I'm usually using this computer for the vast majority of its time is plugged into my studio display.

So the computer's closed, studio display is on, and I'm doing my thing. When I use it as a laptop, there are a few things that I notice that are different. One, the biggest thing for me is the screen brightness. Really notice that compared to my MacBook Pro. I don't notice the ProMotion very much. I don't really know how well that is possible to see on a MacBook Pro anyway. I know at first it was a bit shaky as to where you'd actually see the higher refresh rate on a Mac. I'd see it on my iPhone still, and I love it on my iPhone. I think I've found that the bigger a display gets, maybe the less visible that becomes. I don't know why, but that seems to have been a thing for me. But the brightness is where I definitely see

a huge difference. The MacBook Air just can't get to what the MacBook Pro can. No, it's half. I mean, it's half. Somebody was saying on, I don't even remember what podcast this was, that they like to work outside and the MacBook Pro, like you can work outside and see everything clearly because it goes so bright. And the MacBook Air, I have not had a problem with it. But again, this is the thing of like, if you always use a MacBook Air, you internalize what the brightness of the MacBook Air is and you just think, oh, well, this is how bright laptops get. And then you use the MacBook Pro and you realize, oh, no, no, this is twice as bright as that one is. And in certain circumstances, you can just crank up the brightness and blast away any of the glare that's coming from the sun and bouncing off objects while you're outside. And it just, it, it, it, I was thinking about this the other day,

um, when it might've been when we were talking about the MacBook air compared to the MacBook pro. And I thought we could talk about the chips and we could talk about the slots and the ports, but I think the real, like most important difference between them is the screen, right? Because of the brightness and

the pro motion like it is the biggest upgrade you get when you go from the air to the pro the big pros not the 13 because don't get that one yeah before you start with all the configurations available but like it's the it's the thing that every every owner is going to see right is the screen no matter what configuration you go for. And, you know, chip differences are going to be speed at certain tasks. And the port differences are convenience. And they're real. I'm not saying that those aren't differences.

I'm just saying you're staring at the screen all the time. And on the Pro systems, you are getting it. I mean, we're talking about the Air here, not the Pro. But just saying, I don't miss the Pro and the brightness but they are real they do make a difference and they're not on the air and that's one of the things you give up to to get the smaller lighter cheaper laptop so one of the biggest things for me i think it was actually the biggest thing as to why i decided i wanted to have one of these machines is how good it is at being a laptop. It is the most laptop-y laptop I've ever used

in its lightness, its thinness. I take my laptop home with me every day and bring it back to the studio every day. I do it so I always have a Mac where my computer, if I ever need it at home, sometimes I do. Sometimes something might happen. I have that kind of job where it could be 10 p.m. at night and someone needs me for something.

And the easiest thing for me to do is grab my laptop. So I like to just have it with me. And I could not get over during the couple of weeks that I was using it just how much easier it is to pick it up and move it around. And this sounds like such a simple kind of glib kind of thing. Why is this important? Well, it's a laptop. It's meant to be moved.

And the fact of just how much thinner and lighter it was than the MacBook Pro that I was using, it just made a noticeable, like, positive difference every single day for me. Like, it is way closer to an iPad in the way it feels in your hands when closed, especially than a Mac. Especially, like, if you have, like, an iPad and a Magic Keyboard, like, 12.9-inch iPad and a Magic Keyboard. It's basically the same. And that was just an incredible thing for me.

And it was just like, right, okay, I know I want this to be my daily computer because it's just doing what I want, everything I want it to do from a power perspective, from a capability perspective, but in a much better form factor for what I need. So I'm now living the two laptop lifestyle here in the studio. So I now am living the two laptop lifestyle here in the studio.

So I now am using a MacBook Air. I've got one terabyte SSD, 24 gigabytes of RAM. That's my daily driver laptop. My MacBook Pro is taking the spot of my M1 iMac. I did this today. I switched it all over today. So I now have MacBook Pro plugged into two displays. I have a Dell display that I've used for ages on the side, which is where I put all my audio hijack stuff.

So it's always visible when I'm recording. All the recording tools are over there and I can just look at them and I can see the time. I can see everything's running. It's always there. And then I have the LG monitor that I used to use before my studio display. This LG monitor is way too big. It's like 32 inches. It's way too big. It's way too close to me here. But I want to test all of this out

before I even consider getting another studio display. Sure. And considering the fact that we're coming up to September, which is always an expensive time, I don't want to be buying another studio display right now. So I'm just going to live with this for a while and see how I feel. Because also I've had really inconsistent experiences of laptops plugged in all the time, right? Like, do they connect? Do they not connect? So I've got it running.

Also, the desk is all not right. I need to completely reorganize my desk to deal with this different layout. And like, I just have the laptop is just sitting in front of me on the little stand that I used to put my iMac on top of, right? So it would be eye height, but it's like super ugly.

There's cables coming out of it. It's like, I don't like it. I have one of those 12 South book stand things, whatever they call it. Book arc? Book arc, yeah. But I just don't have anywhere to put that yet it's like i've got to redo this entire desk but i'm not doing that until i'm sure

of this now the reason i've done this it's like and also i will say my desk that does not feel as happy as a place to be without that beautiful yellow computer looking at me i will say that like i sat down to record today jason and and it was like, oh, this feels sad. Like this is ugly, LG. It's not ugly, it's fine. But it's like all black, right? The monitors, like all the bezels are black and it just doesn't feel as colorful in here. But now I will be able to benefit from having an M1 Max powered machine. And I know it's going to be ripping through anything that I need to do processing wise. I will say there is this other part of it, which is like, well, I'm not actually editing as many podcasts as I used to, but that's like a whole other thing to think about for a future time. Right. So the plan is to think about, I'm going to try this out for a couple of weeks,

I think of these two laptops where the MacBook Pro is essentially sitting here as a Mac studio. Right? That's kind of how I'm treating it. Yeah, right. But my kind of future that I imagine is if I need to travel for work and record, I will just take the MacBook Pro because I know it is all ready and all set up with the most power possible to get my podcast recording done which you may think that sounds counterintuitive if you're taking the heavier laptop with you

while you're traveling but when I'm traveling say across the Atlantic my backpack's already too heavy with all other kinds of stuff I've got in it anyway so I'll just take the MacBook Pro but we'll see my M1 iMac it's going to stay here for a little bit until

I finally made this decision and then it's going to go home and this will be a beautiful family home computer yay you're going to get to do what apple does in all of its promo shots which is put a lovingly uh detailed like home setup with an iMac a nice yellow iMac in the center of it and it could be like I was originally thinking oh I don't want to have a kitchen computer but I actually think it could be a really nice kitchen computer because I was thinking maybe you would want like a small television screen in the kitchen and this could also be that right so maybe we'll see how that goes in the future for me um but yeah I I'm just really struck by how excellent a computer the MacBook Air is.

I just think it's fantastic. I think it's, for me, easily taking the crown again of the best laptop Apple makes. Because it's just the right balance of everything, I think. I think it's fantastic. I think you're right um i saw a note go by on twitter this weekend from walt mossberg retired great tech reviewer for many years of wall street journal and all things d and uh all of that and um he said it drives him crazy that there are all of these reviews of the macbook air that talk about power or a lack of power or these incredibly complicated use cases for it when the truth is 99 of people i don't use

that much power and i think the truth is the the real truth is that for the last decade most computers had enough power to serve 90 of the the needs of people. I think at this point, the bar has been raised to, and I look back because I was like, oh, okay, well, does my review pass the test? And my review says 99% of people, you know, the bar has been raised so much now that most people can get along just fine with the MacBook Air. One of the things that struck me about this MacBook Air is you can't, like, there's very little you can't do with it. When you hit the wall, you don't really hit the wall. You just slow down and it takes you a while to reach the wall. And that's another thing that's really notable about how much power is in even the MacBook Air.

that's another thing that's really notable about how much power is in even the MacBook air is, and the M one MacBook air is this case too, but now with the M two, even more with like AK video and different kinds of 4k video, like what you're really giving up is time. I'm sure there are things that require a certain number of like ports and like, I'm sure you can find those edge cases, but we've reached the point now where you would have to work really hard to find reasons why you absolutely couldn't use a MacBook Air to do your job, whatever your job is, literally whatever your job is.

And I'm not saying those edge cases aren't there. And I'm not saying that our listeners aren't the edge cases because our listeners probably are the edge cases. But we've gone from it being like when it started, the computer for 50% of people to now I when it started the computer for 50% of people to now, I think it's the computer for 99% of people. And that if you want to go, this is why I was saying about the MacBook Pro. If you want to go to the MacBook Pro, go for the size, go for the ports, go for the screen, or go for the fact that it's so fast, you'll be able to do that work faster. And that matters to you you but like you traveling internationally with a macbook air there's nothing that you're going to say oh i can't do this you might say oh

this is slow i'm gonna have to wait an extra 10 minutes for this thing to finish but that's it that's it's really remarkable and it depends on the type like i basically i'm giving myself the ability to take either of these laptops if I was traveling. So for WWDC, for example, I need speed. I've got to get things done as quickly as possible. But a regular trip where I might record a show or two while I'm traveling, I just take my laptop. But I'm going to be giving myself the flexibility to make the right choice.

Even what speed you need like if you're not working in 4k video it will have all the speed you need it really will it's it's that it's that super high-end stuff where you're really going to have it or if you're doing like i mean my example is always isotope and and i think this goes back to walt saying about why do all the reviewers talk about these things to To be fair, Apple is also to blame here because, you know, Apple brings out a low-end MacBook Air, right? By definition, the low end of their product, their laptop line, and says, let's talk about 8K video. Yeah. Like, really? And puts that stuff in the chip, right? The video decoding and coding. Right. And one of the reasons we do that is because we're trying to find places where this thing falls down. Because the fact is, we are all just out there on the edge of the 99% trying to find some use case that it doesn't work.

So for me, it's iZotope and their D-Reverb and D-Noise plugins. And yeah, so the reason I have a Mac Studio is because I've got stuff that takes, you know, a job that takes 30 minutes on the MacBook Air and takes 15 minutes on the Mac Studio. And for me, sitting there watching the progress bar or going off and doing something else and then coming back and doing the next file, which is another half hour, right? It's better to do that in 10 or 15 minutes, but I could still do it. And that's the most extreme for me that I really get is that kind of stuff. For most stuff, it's the difference between, as I did with my testing, right? It's the difference between, oh, that job my testing, right? It's the difference between,

oh, that job took a minute 20 instead of a minute 10, which is, I mean, it's, yeah, it's slower, okay. But not so you'd notice really, like, and that's what I mean about, like, I think you could travel with confidence for all that you do with the MacBook Air. You might have to, again, you might have to get like a hub or something, right?

There are these issues with the fact that it's only got the two ports, but, and a card reader, if you're doing stuff where you're pulling things off of an SD recorder and all that, there are reasons to get a MacBook Pro. I'm not saying there aren't. I'm just saying that if all you have is a MacBook Air, you could do everything. I agree. You really could. We'll see. And maybe you will. Also, by the way, I'm going to give you a, I'm not, this is not a real assignment, but I'm going to give you a fake assignment, which is to say you could now, now you can replace your streaming PC as well. Oh, yeah. With their Apple Silicon version that also integrates all of those code changes that the Apple engineers made so that they're using the right APIs for for window capture and stuff like that. So I haven't seen any reports about how good this thing is, but I have at least hope that OBS may actually be decent on the Mac again. So something to watch because I know that's a tool

that you use for live streaming. Yeah. I mean, OBS can still be fine, but there's just like a bunch of input output stuff that I have way more control of. I get it. I mean, also it's the difference

between having set it up and having to set it up. Like it may be that we're reaching a point where somebody like you looks at and goes, I don't really need to buy a PC. I can get by,

but you already have it. So it's fine. I have managed to never go down that path and I never will because I've got other options. But it's nice that OBS is kind of, it seems to have found the plot again on the Mac with Apple Silicon and the new stuff that for those who don't remember,

there was a GitHub code contribution from Apple, I think listed as from Apple, but it is using the right APIs on macOS for window capture that it previously wasn't using. It's the screen capture kit API. And so that's encouraging that app, which is vital for so many people who do video streams, is actually kind of up to speed, or at least theoretically up to speed on macOS, again, with Apple Silicon and screencapturekit support. This episode is brought to you by Sourcegraph. So you've hired a brilliant developer. That's awesome. But now you have to get them onboarded.

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plus PayPal, Plaid, Uber, GE, Reddit, and Atlassian. Visit about.sourcegraph.com to learn more. That's about.sourcegraph.com to learn more. That's about.sourcegraph.com to find out why some of the biggest tech companies in the world use Sourcegraph and to see what it can do for yours. Or just click the link in the show notes to let them know that you heard about them from this show. Our thanks to Sourcegraph for their support of this show and RelayFM. Rumor roundup. Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple is currently preparing and recording the September event, confirming that it will be a continuation of pre-recorded events.

This event will feature the iPhone 14 and new Apple Watches with the plan for an October event for new iPads and Macs. Yep. Was there any doubt in your mind that there would be an in-person like any doubt in your mind about what this event was going to be from in-person not in-person well at some point yes at some point i thought that they might do this after they did wwdc with the in-person component i thought that maybe they would feel like they could invite people but as we've detailed here the trajectory of the pandemic and the new strains that are more um infectious and easily transmittable

and like right now i'm not that surprised that that they might do this i still am thinking there's it's possible they will do an in-person media event of some kind they could do what they did at wwdc what you just mentioned they could they could invite they could invite the media and have us have a small media group and have a sit outside and then do maybe even in cafe max or some other kind of like open air location or masked inside something like the steve jobs theater have the hands-on area because that that would be the one thing that i would still put out there is this is going to be a produced show it absolutely is are they going to have an in-person component maybe but if so it's going to be because they-person component? Maybe, but if so, it's going

to be because they really want members of the press to come and get their hands on the new hardware. And it's great when you can do that. It's also possible that they'll do something hybrid where they do this event, but they also schedule briefings. And maybe some of us in the East and West Coast will get invited to be in New York or Cupertino and get our hands on that way. And you could do that without having a big crowd. So I think there are options there for them to do that. I'll be, that's what

I'm going to keep watching. But, you know, it's not surprising to think that most of this stuff is going to be, if not all, pre-recorded. So speaking of new iPads, Makotakara is reporting

from supply chain sources that the new iPad Pro would feature a quote four pin connector on the top and bottom edges. MagSafe? I think smart connector.

That's what I think. I think smart connector. Although MagSafe and smart connector are could be related. I mean MagSafe is a little different but smart connector can do power transfer at least at a low level not a high level but a low level my four pin connector on top and bottom edges reads to me like they want to do this might be a new apple pencil or it might be the same apple pencil in a new location and this might also be for connecting to you know a new keyboard and other accessories that way maybe what top and bottom seems weird

to me because the orientations are exactly the same well this is why i don't think smart keyboard like because okay so here's the problem what's top and what's bottom as described to the person who heard this. This is where it becomes complicated. I've been thinking you could do it on two of the side edges so that you can have different orientations that use those things. We're going to need more information here, but it feels like this is accessory-based and that this is probably smart connectorory in some way. But it's

yeah, I hesitate to go down this path too much because it's so vague. And I'm not sure what I'm picturing is essentially the smart connector moved to the sides and in place of where the Apple pencil thing was, instead of on the back where it is now the disadvantage of it being on the back, the advantage of being on the back is that you can put a big thing back there that includes wired in the connections. And that's what the smart keyboard does. The disadvantage of it is you have to have a thing back there.

Whereas, you know, there are a lot of stands that don't necessarily have a full cover on the back of an iPad. You get access to it on the side. So I could see them moving it, but they would need to redesign everything if they did that. Um, cause the back connector feels very much like, you know, Apple put it there as a part of designing the accessory. Like it was made for the accessory. So I don't know. I mean, it's a, it's a weird thing, but this is right in line with, I think, what we see from Apple with this stuff, which is they change these kind of proprietary things that are on iPads.

They change kind of at their own whim if they have a good accessory story that goes around it. And I'm not quite sure what that accessory story is here and whether it's a redesigned smart keyboard or it's something with the Apple Pencil or it's something completely different. But are they going to do a kind of like a dock or a desktop-y thing? Because now there's external display support. Is it related to charging? I don't know. It's interesting, but so vague.

I don't know about the Magic Keyboard question. I think that design is pretty good, and I would be surprised if they iterated on that design after two years. Just like the fundamental design of how the thing works, because if now the connector is on the top or the bottom, or any of the sides, say, that's a new design for the Magic Keyboard, right? Like, now it's completely different, if it's no longer on the back.

So this is why I'm kind of more inclined to think this is some kind of new accessory connector, which also does MagSafe charging. Like, that's why I'm leaning on that i think that there could or some other accessory or whatever but the way that the apple pencil charges and the way that the uh magic keyboard just fundamentally works i just think those two things feel pretty set to me for a while i sort of agree with you but i'm going to just make the counterpoint here which is if apple thinks that there's a better way to do the smart keyboard or the magic keyboard that

they were not able to do before, they're like, oh yeah, well, you know, we had to cantilever it over and all of that. And the reason they do that is for weight more than anything else. But like, if they think there's a new way to do it, it's not beyond them at all to just say, oh, we've got a new design. So we want the, we want the pins to be here to the, to the designers and the designers are like, all right, okay, I guess we'll do that. So I wouldn't put it past them, but you're right. It is a big step to say, we're going to change the pencil design or we're going to change the magic keyboard design. And there have been rumors there about some sort of charging thing. And as the iPad and Mac become more cousins than the iPad and the iPhone, right?

Where the iPad is slowly drifting closer to the Mac and away from the iPhone, I feel like. Even though they're based on the same operating system, that's part of the iPadOS thing is it allows it to drift toward the Mac. And given that MagSafe came back to the Mac and is on the iphone too but like if you think about magsafe and in mac terms it could be right it could literally be

magsafe like on the mac at the bottom and top of the ipad so that you can just pop on a magsafe connector and charge it yeah because what i've been thinking about on that one was like... And I just, let me be clear here. I think that's the change in orientation you need to have in order to think about MagSafe on the iPad is don't think about it like MagSafe on the iPhone. Think about it like MagSafe on the Mac. And then you look at it and you go,

oh, like, you know, maybe even the same connector. But if not, something like that where there's like a little blob and you go boop and attach it magnetically and it charges the iPad. Because if it's good enough for the Mac, why not for the iPad? Not I'm going to lay my iPad down flat on a big, you know, puck and it's going to charge. Different thing. Because that's why, like, I think it could be MagSafe because it's on the two sides. So then it's even better, right?

Where they'd be like, oh, if you wanted to charge it by USB, you've got to make sure it's on the... But now with MagSafe, you could just be like, whatever. You just do it. It's two different places, right? I don't know.

We'll find out. I'm intrigued by it. I'm happy to hear they're doing something, though, because it means there's maybe an interesting story to tell. Yeah. Always good to have a... Never bet against Apple having an interesting accessory story to tell, especially with an iPad, right?

The whole platform from the beginning has been not just about the iPad, but about what accessories they put with it for logical reasons, right? Because the iPad changes and modifies itself based on what accessories you attach to it. So it's part of the iPadad is it changes and modifies itself based on what accessories you attach to it so it's part of the ipad story is the accessories going back to mark german mark is reporting that apple has two new homepod products in the works a new high-end homepod and an updated homepod mini this is quoting from mac rumors previously reported, this new high-end HomePod will run the same S8 chip of the future Apple Watch Series 8 and will be closer in terms of size and audio performance to the original HomePod rather than the mini version.

Fine. The more interesting part of the report is there are currently, quote, at least four new smart home devices in its labs, but not all will see the light of day two of these are a kitchen focused so there's two one is a kitchen focused device that is a combo of a speaker and an ipad like screen another is a living room device that combines an apple tv camera and a home pod basically my two dream devices. Yeah, and we've talked about them both on Upgrade in detail, but the idea is one is like an Amazon Echo, except it's from Apple, it's a HomePod and an iPad kind of style screen, although whether it would run iPadOS or maybe

tvOS, and it would presumably have a camera and it would be a FaceTime device. So a siri and facetime uh kind of thing in the kitchen that sort of thing uh and then the other one is the the apple tv home pod combo soundbar whatever thing that also does facetime uh which i'm really interested in that like i i agree with you These are both pretty interesting and I might want both of these. I think, though, that what I really am curious about is how Apple is testing these and trying them out because it's all in the details, right? I know it's always all in the details. If you just tell me with not a lot of details, oh, Apple's going to do a thing that you put by your TV and it's got a camera and it's a soundbar and it's an Apple TV and you attach it and it does all those things and it's great. It's like a HomePod plus Apple TV plus FaceTime camera all together.

I would say great, right? But it's all about the details. What does it look like? Where does it fit? What are its features? What is it omitting that it's going to disappoint me? Could I actually use it? I don't know.

And the kitchen one is the same way. Like, how do you interact with it? Is it like there's an Apple TV in your kitchen or is it like there's an iPad in your kitchen and you know, how much of it is navigated by voice and how much of it is navigated by touch? Because the Amazon thing I've got in my kitchen, I, I almost never touch. And when I do, it's because something's gone horribly wrong and I need to bring down the menu or, or cancel something or go to the settings or something like that. So those are all

the questions I've got as well. Okay, great. Mark's talked about these before. They're still floating out there. They're still intriguing. I would like Apple to do both of them because I feel like there's something there, but it may be that, you know, if they don't come to pass, it may be because Apple goes through them and goes, Oh, this, this just isn't good enough, or it doesn't make enough sense. But I, I'm glad that they're investigating them because I think both of them have a lot of potential given all of the features Apple already has in its ecosystem. All the different component parts exist for these products. They just have to put it together in an interesting way that is in a product that is something they could actually sell for a reasonable price so that people actually buy it.

Mark believes that at least one of these products would launch by the end of 2023 or early 2024. Yeah, don't put away some money for this for Christmas. It's not going to happen. 2023 maybe and ming chi kuo's recent updated research note for apple's upcoming headset quo currently expects that apple will hold an event in january of 2023 to announce the device i assume this is based on like when manufacture is planned yeah i. I don't know, right? This is one of those things where we wonder, Kuo's...

How does he know? Kuo knows what's going on on the supply chain. I don't know if that could necessarily tell you when an event's going to be, but there you go. I guess around that time frame. And Kuo also expects it to cost

now between $2,000 to $2,500. That's cheaper than we've heard in the past. Because of this, it would be a niche device and there is expectations for about 1.5 million of them to be shipped in 2023. Oh boy. That's $3 billion in revenue. For wearables, home and accessories i guess but slide it in there niche device i think we've all expected this for a little while now and i it'll be interesting when this gets announced that for

the mainstream media to react and say oh my god i can't believe it but like i think it's been clear that apple's goal with this product is to make something that's up to their standards and they're a little less concerned about the price. And what's interesting is when you see what Meta is doing, you realize they're doing the same thing, right? Which is they've raised the price on their low-end headset, but that they're also working on a high-end headset. Because I think Apple at this point is sort of like, we need to set the bar about where we think that this is a usable product. And then I would assume over time, as the product line goes along, it will come down in price, or at least versions of it will come down in price. Because I think,

you know, I know we talk about Apple making a lot of money and not going too far down market, but a $2,000 headset, $2,500 headset is probably too much to spur this along. But you start there. And I think you imagine that the supply chain and the parts and all that and your knowledge about it and what sensors you thought were necessary that weren't

and all that kind of like leads you down a path where a year or two after that, you've got a split product line with a couple of different models, one of which is more affordable and you go from there. But yeah, nobody get their hopes up

for a 500 apple headset because it doesn't that's not going to happen this feels somewhat like a learning from the apple watch to me kind of like you can't launch a product and expect it to be the iphone like it's just not going to happen you know like where you launch this thing and it's just like everyone wants it and it like blows the doors off immediately and everyone's losing their minds, right? What's more likely is you launch a product that is hard to get out there so it's more expensive. And then you work out a little bit more of the story based upon how people use it, what developers are adopting it, what developers are doing with it. So then for revision two, revision three, you've got a much more concise understanding, right? Because Apple Watch initially, fashion device that can unlock doors for you

physically in hotels, and it's going to do everything. And you're going to talk to your friends by sending them pictures of fish and like all that kind of stuff. And then a couple of versions later, it's like, hey, this is a health and fitness device that can also read to your text messages. And you know what? When they worked that out, then they started selling way more of them. So I expect this to be somewhat similar and Apple's preparing for that upfront maybe. Because I know this 1.5 million sounds like a lot.

It's not a lot for Apple. I think there's a lesson here that's almost maybe like a lesson from the Newton, which is better to, if it's not a good experience below a certain price, don't come out with a bad experience. We shipped a lot of it. We sold a lot of them,

but everybody hated it. It's not something that Apple wants to do strategically. Everybody was really excited and they spent five. We got the price down to $900 and we got a lot more people to buy it. But because we had to cut it in so many different ways, the experience was bad. I honestly think that Apple's strategy with this product has always been that there is a certain level below which they won't go because they don't think people

will accept it as a good product. And so I think their goal is it's going to be too expensive, but good. And then the next step after that has to be, how do we get it to be less expensive or more necessary so that people want to buy it? And I think that's going to take some time. The risk, the counter argument is something like the HomePod, which was too expensive. And even though it was good, people kind of rejected it. But the HomePod was not mission critical for Apple in a way that this is. I think that Apple's going to be in this for the long haul. If it doesn't sell well up front, they're not going to say, well, that was it. We're out of the AR business.

I think they're in this for years to come. And so the first one is going to be like them putting down their chips for the first round. But they're in it for the long game. I also think that this has a potential larger audience than the home pod ever could as well like of people that might want something like this because it's interesting to them in some way where i feel like the home pod is not so much because it's like why would i want that when i could just get a bluetooth speaker like yeah and there isn't a bluetooth speaker version of this type of thing. Exactly.

Also, I'd say, well, I mean, maybe the Bluetooth, that's a bad analogy, but like a MetaQuest 2 or PSVR or something like that. But that's the Amazon Echo or the Google Home to the HomePod rather than, you know. That's fair. That's fair. So I think that's going to be a challenge on their point. You know, David in our Discord said they think they're going to sell one and a half million at that price. Yeah.

I think Apple, how shall I put this? A hot new Apple product in a new whizzy category that is pricey. And so only some people are going to be able to get it and you can get in on the ground floor for somebody who doesn't really care that it costs $2,000. Like Apple can sell, I really believe Apple could sell a large number of almost anything, especially something that is hot and new and pricey because a lot of Apple's customers don't care about price. They're not price sensitive at all. And so I don't think that's unreasonable to say a million and a half

units in a year of the brand new Apple thing. Maybe they'll be off by a little bit, but I'm never going to underestimate Apple's ability to sell a product like this to the hardest core of its audience who are the least price sensitive. There'll be a hot app and there'll be people talking about it and there'll be some, you know, new thing and there'll be videos about like, oh, here's this amazing thing that the Apple thing does that'll drive some sales. And again, we're not talking about 20 million in sales. We're talking about a million and a half. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Hover. I love Hover and I've used them for years.

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choice for people starting businesses buy your domain and start using it today go to hover.com slash upgrade and get a 10 discount on all new purchases that is hover.com slash upgrade make a name for yourself with hover thanks to hover for their support of this show and RelayFM. We'll go back to Mark Gurman again to talk about something different this time. It's kind of a rumor, but a little bit not, and I wanted to give it a bit more air to breathe, which is that

iPadOS 16 is likely to be delayed, according to Mark Gurman, with the main reason for this to be stage manager according to Mark Ehrman, with the main reason for this to be stage manager needing more work before shipping out widely, is what Mark is saying that Apple believes. And it is now expected that iPadOS 16 will ship about a month later than the iPhone.

I wanted to get your reaction to this. I feel for people like our friend James Thompson, who was quoted by Mark in his newsletter, misspelled his name, saying the problem with this is if you're an iOS developer and you're building a universal app so it runs on iPad and iPhone, now you're in this position where you're like, what do I do? Because you're going to have the iPhone out there before the iPad. out there before the iPad. I feel like though, what I said earlier about the Apple kind of like taking wrenching iPadOS further away from the iPhone and pushing it toward the Mac and the iPad hardware as well. I feel like this is in line with that, right? Like stage manager is a feature on Mac and iPad, not iPhone. And so in addition to the fact that stage manager, I think obviously they want more time with it to do it right. And I think that's good because they could use it, giving that more time.

And also, like, Mac OS already, like, James's problem is only magnified by this, but it's not created by this. Because we have had, for years now, all the brand new OS stuff for iOS and iPadOS ship in September and macOS not ship until October. And so for a month, the Mac just can't do any of those things. So all that's different here is that it'll be the Mac and the iPad that can't do those things. And so it's a problem that will be magnified because it's a shared app platform between the iPhone and the iPad. But it honestly doesn't bother me. The new iPads are rumored to come out, a new iPad at least, in October, possibly at the same event.

Having a single event with macOS and iPadOS launching and new Macs and new iPads kind of makes sense. I think it makes sense. So on a messaging standpoint and a give stage manager more time standpoint and honestly giving the iPad a little more love after the crunch to get the iPhone shipped because the iPhone again, we love the iPad. We love the Mac. Never forget that half of Apple's business is the iPhone and it will always take priority. So I've become a big fan in the last few years of allowing the iPhone, which is the elephant in the room, allowing the iPhone to do its thing when it needs to do its thing and getting the other products time, some other time to do their thing. Because if you're the iPad and you're like,

but I have to fix this iPad feature before we ship. I've got to fix it. I got to fix it. And they're like, no, you must do the iPhone things. Cause we got iPhones to sell. And it's the most important feature, your most important product in our company. The iPad will never win that argument. Never. So if this opens up a window where sometime, possibly now, they set aside some of the iPad stuff, work on getting the final shipping version. Because remember, they're working way ahead of us. Final shipping version of iOS that will go on those phones that are being manufactured now. And then also all the bug cleanup for the version that will be there the day that they ship that you're going to need to update and then when they when they lock that one down

they are uh then kind of wrapping up the ipad project and doing the work on that like kind of makes too much sense and i think it's actually good for the ipad to get out from under the iphone crunch because in the iphone crunch only the iphone should matter and does matter so i took this debate straight to james thompson a couple of days ago i don't agree when this is a funny thing to say considering i'm telling him how he feels. I don't necessarily agree with... You're feeling it wrong, James. You're feeling it wrong. The idea that there would be some kind of issue

for most developers about iPad coming out at a different time. Like, if what you're doing for your iPad app is supporting Stage Manager, iPad being delayed, it's not like your app's not going to work. Like, this is only an issue if you require iPadOS 16 or some iPadOS 16 technology in your application, which most developers wouldn't do because that's a bad business move, right? To be like, this is only going to run on iPadOS 16 now. Like under typical circumstances, this app can still just run as normal on an iPad. Like you have to, as a developer, right?

And like, I know that James would do this, confirm that your app's going to work on 15 after you do an update. So this is no different. Yeah, I... Right? And here to answer that question is James Doney. He's not here.

I mean, me and James already had this conversation and we have decided we disagree. Right. But that's kind of my my view on it i don't know why this would make any specific difference because unless you are a developer that is specifically targeting some ipad over 16 feature and you're cutting off the rest of your user base on the day that ipad always comes out like this isn't going to make a difference to you because you still have to make sure it's going to work on ipad i was 15 when the

ipad i was 16 version comes out anyway james is saying that i'm wrong but i don't think i am so until he can prove otherwise uh i'm going to assume i'm right i well what the the approach i took is i feel for developers like james that are put in this situation from a user and apple perspective it kind of makes sense. But the challenge for developers like James is that they're going to have to make decisions that may impact their users. And I feel bad about that. But I think we're all going to need to get used to it because this feels kind of like the right thing to do from that larger perspective. And it's on Apple to, and this is, I think, an important point to make. It's on Apple. If this is an issue for

developers like James, Apple should make this not an issue for developers like James. I don't know how. Some other way of doing it where he can take his universal app, but it's actually a different version that goes to the iPad than the iPhone, and that it gets split off like a little bit more so that he can, even though it's one app in the app store or perhaps across all app stores, which he doesn't do because he doesn't want to do it that way. And that's fine. But have that ability to sort of like control it. Maybe there are better ideas than that. I just made that up.

But the idea of, you know, if Apple's going to do this every time and it's going to put developers like James in a spot, maybe Apple should find a way to give them tools so that they're not stuck. How about that? I'm still not sure that they're not stuck. How about that? I'm still not sure how they will be stuck. I just don't see it. I can't conceive of it. Right, because unless he's shipping an app that doesn't work on iPadOS 16, if he ships his app on iOS 16 and it goes to iPadOS 16, it'll still work just like the old version because he's maintained compatibility. Yeah.

But James can't answer himself, so. It's impossible. Unfortunately, it's impossible. So we're just going to have to move on. Do you agree with the idea of delaying it for Sage Manager's sake? Yeah. Like I said, I agree with it because I think getting out from under the iPhone is good for the iPad.

Any decision about iPad features when they're crunching to get it onto iPhones is going to, the iPad is going to lose. So I support this. And the Mac's already there, right? I mean, that's the other part of this is that the Mac's already on this cycle. And it's annoying in a way, but it's fine. I think it's okay. But do you think that it needs it? Do you think that it needs this time for stage managers?

Do you find stage manager to be a feature that could do with a lot more work? I mean, it's a work in progress for sure. It's going to need more work beyond the fall, right? It's going to need more work. I hope they can just keep refining it and don't just leave it in its finished state for a year. It's funny because I saw Federico Vatici tweet about how he felt like it had gotten more buggy lately. And I think he's right. But my feeling about it is that it's also gotten more refined and works better lately or at least

when it works it works better so i think they're making progress in doing so i think they're breaking things that are causing the bugs that federico sees there are also some bugs that have been there since the beginning in terms of where windows go when you do things it's like it's what i said a while ago about the mac which is the mac is a system that's that's got windowing down has been doing windowing for almost 40 years and uh so when you put stage manager on it the windowing all makes sense and then on the ipad it has no windowing and to speak of and there are all these places where you do something like that's supposed to spawn a Safari window. And you've got another Safari window in your stage manager view. And it doesn't go there, but instead opens a new Safari window in a different view.

And you're like, why would you do that? And the answer is because it's the iPad and it doesn't have that infrastructure around it. So, you know, they got a lot of work to do. I feel like they're making some interface improvements, like adding features, but Federico's right. It's also really buggy. So, you know, the more time it has for them to grind away on it, the better. I find it funny. Mark Gurman, Mark Gurman hates stage manager. Yeah, he really does. Yeah. He really hates it. In his newsletter, he complains about it all the time. And the piece of evidence that he gives that I find the most baffling is he says, even Apple knows stage manager sucks because they have a button in control center to turn it on and

off. It's like, Mark, no, no, it's a mode. It's great. The reason that it's like that is because most iPad users won't want to use stage manager. They will, they are used to single window mode and they're very happy with it. And that's what the iPad is to them. And if you introduce this windowing mode to everybody, most of your iPad users will be like, what the hell is going on? I don't want this. And then they're going to spend the next, you know, rest of their time using the ipad tapping zoom on every single one of their apps to get them back to full screen if they can figure that out so the the control center thing is not there because they're not proud of of uh center stage or sorry stage manager i did it it's not that at all what i find funny is that prior to this mark was talking about wanting to

have a pro mode like a button that you press that turn the iPad into pro mode. I think he, so it is doing that. I think he just doesn't like that it's not, he doesn't like what it's doing. But that's just funny to me that that's the reason

because that was something that he was suggesting they should do. So he's so cranky about it because he doesn't like it that he says, aha, look, they hate it. They're hiding it behind a button and control center. And it's dumb because that's not, that's no, that's not why. And if they're there, I think that they're actually kind of proud of it, but they're also realize it would break the interface for every iPad user in a way that most iPad users don't want. It's also not on by default on the Mac. Are they ashamed of it on

the Mac too? I don't think they are. I think that by default on the Mac. Are they ashamed of it on the Mac too? I don't think they are. I think that they think this is a mode like many other modes that you can turn on and off. And I actually think it's going to be pretty decent, but it's got a lot of bugs and a lot of weird things about it and it's going to take time. So we'll see. Mike, I want to take a moment here to channel James Thompson. Okay. Just because we have not given him his say, and I'm going to channel it here, which is he has a very nuanced reason why this is an issue, which is if you ship an app in September for iOS that's linked against the iOS and iPadOS 16 SDK, that code will run on iPadOS 16, even if it's not tested with the final build.

So his issue here is he can release it for the iPhone, but the iPadOS is still in beta. And when it goes final and gets pushed out to everybody, however it works on the iPad and however broken it might be, it'll just start working on those updated iPads. And he wants to test it and control that experience and not have it be broken because then he's going to get a bunch of bad app reviews for his iPad app. It was like, oh, I updated iOS 16 and now pCalc doesn't work.

When the truth is it doesn't work because it doesn't have the GM. I don't know. I still don't understand how that's different. Like, what's the difference? Well, I think the difference in part is that he's got days or sometimes it's a day or maybe it's a week to run on the final build before it goes out and make

any changes he needs to change so that it works properly when the regular users update to it. And that this is turning it to zero, literally zero because it's already out there he can't control it he can't gate it and say i'm not going to release this until i've cleared all the bugs because it will already be released i think that's his issue anyway james you can you can you can write all right well it's out there people can judge themselves anyway i'm fortunate part of all of this is it kind of and i feel for all developers

of all kinds of things that doesn't matter this is what they're going to do you just got to get used to it you know and what we've said all along is what's the and developers know this better than anyone what is the pecking order in terms of apple's priorities yeah it is one apple yeah two customers of apple three developers and this is a move that I think makes sense for one and two. Sorry, three. But what else is new? This is how it is with that. So that's where we are.

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First one comes from Chris. Chris says, I, like Jason, love the iPhone mini. Yay. Jason, have you decided how long you think you might keep your iPhone 13 mini? What do you think it's going to take for you to move to a larger phone size? It's kind of an unfair question just because, or at least I'm going to give an unfair answer. How about that? I buy a new iPhone for myself every other year. This year was my year to do it, or last fall was my year to do it. So I bought an iPhone 13 mini knowing I would keep it for

two years at least. Maybe I'll keep it longer. I don't know. However, I'm a cheater because I get the iPhones every fall from Apple. Thank you for making me, you know, part of your review program. I don't have to buy many iPhones. They send me the iPhones and I review them. And that means I get to use all the iPhones for a while. And that's really nice. But my personal owned iPhone will be the 13 mini. And I don't anticipate buying one of these new ones. Cause I just don't, I've, I've kept myself on the two year cycle. Um, just because I, I think that that's fair. I'm also buying a new iPhone for my son this fall, um, as he goes off to college. So he's going to have to, uh, I'm spending the money there this time instead. What will it take for me to move to a larger size iPhone?

My guess is that the agglomeration of new features over the next two years will be what gets me to do it. That I'll be sad to give up the mini. And that there won't be one. It's also like, you know, if you want to get a new phone, you eventually have to move. Yes, but I could also not get a new phone, right? That's the thing. When the iPhone 15 comes out and it's two years, will I buy a new phone or will I keep it?

I could keep the iPhone. My guess is that in two years, all the new features that have been rolled into the iPhone 14 and 15, and keep in mind the rumors are the 15 will be one of those big, kind of like new generations with new cameras and the periscope might be in there

and all that kind of stuff. And I new cameras and the periscope might be in there and all that kind of stuff. And I don't have ProMotion and I don't have all these other features because I have an iPhone 13 mini. My guess is that in two years, when it's time for me traditionally to buy a new iPhone, I'm going to look at some version of the iPhone 15 and say, all right, I'll do it. And of the iPhone 15 and say, all right, I'll do it. And that's, that's my guess. Is it possible that I will look at them and say, I can, I could wait a year. Maybe it's possible. Anything's possible. Again, one of the fortunate things about doing this as my job is that if I need to refer to something on one of the brand new pieces of hardware, I have them at least for a while. And I can do that. I don't need to actually buy the new pieces of hardware just for reference because that's my job.

So I might be able to put it off longer. But if I know myself and analyze myself, that would be my guess is that in two years when it's time for me to traditionally buy a new phone, I will buy a new phone and it will be probably an iPhone 15. That said, if there's a rumor that the iPhone 15 technology is going to be rolled into something that looks like the iPhone mini, maybe in the spring, I would probably wait because I would really rather have an iPhone mini. But if there's no sign that the mini form factor, I can't believe I used that phrase. I hate it, but there it is. If the mini is not coming back in any shape or form, back to, I'll probably break down in two years.

Vegard asks, with Major League Baseball, Major League Soccer, and potentially the NFL, when will Apple announce their first streaming deal for any women's sport? Now, I have to say, we can't answer this question, right? We don't know the answer to this. But I think it would be a good thing for them to pursue. It's more content, potentially of a smaller but also dedicated audience.

They would get the ability to learn more about streaming in general, right? They just keep adding in for, I would presume, cheaper rights, right? So, you know, like if you got the Women's Super League football, it would be cheaper than trying to get the premiership, right? Sure. Football. So here's the problem.

There are not that many, especially in the United States, there are not that many women's sports leagues. The most prominent is the soccer league, the NWSL. There's the Women's super league in Europe. Paramount Plus has bought the rights to both of those. So they're locked into a deal.

And Sky and BBC in the UK have that. So I think the answer to Vigor's question is largely all the streamers are aware that there's an audience that is growing for women's sports. Streamers are aware that there's an audience that is growing for women's sports. And the challenge is that the number of those leagues that are out there is small. And therefore, there is a competition to get those rights. And Paramount Plus and CBS, basically, in the U.S., has invested in women's soccer in the US and put that into their brand. And I have friends who are fans of the NWSL and specific teams like the Portland Thorns. And they got Paramount Plus to watch the Portland Thorns, right? That was part of the deal. It's actually very similar to what's going to happen with Apple and MLS, where people are going to get their package because they are a fan of an MLS team. So my answer is women's sports leagues need to grow.

But one of the ways that women's sports leagues are growing is by making deals with streamers. I'm sure Apple will be in the conversation, but you can't just turn around and, you know, the shopping, the aisles of of the market of the supermarket full of sports rights are the women's aisle is pretty bare because there just have not been that many women's sports leagues out there and it's growing but like in the u.s like the the NWSL is kind of it in terms of the major sports. I will throw out there that Apple is rumored to be in conversations for some college conference deals. And it probably is mostly going to go to like ESPN Plus or something like that. But it's possible that some college conference in the U.S. anyway might make a deal with Apple that looks like the MLS deal. At which point what you'd see is all the college sports going on Apple's streaming.

So they might get some college football games and some college basketball games, which is what they really want. But, for example, if they make a deal with the, PAC 12, which is having to make a new deal because they lost two members and their deal is up. So they have to make some new deals. And the commissioner there has said that one of the things that they will do is work with the streamer. One possibility might be that Apple or Amazon could assume their streaming package, in which case all of the college women's soccer and volleyball and softball, et cetera, et cetera, is going to go to whatever streamer they tie up with. So I'd say that pro leagues are going to be harder because they're going to have to compete

with every other streamer for the limited number of women's pro leagues, especially in the U.S. But college might give them a little bit more of a venue. But this is the challenge is that there are all these established men's leagues and there just are not very many established women's leagues so far. Next question comes from John Cresson who asks, do we think that the next iPad Pro will have an M2 chip or could there be a Pro chip of some kind in there? M2. No, no Pro. It doesn't make sense for the iPad. What about M1 Pro? Battery. No, I just don't think it makes sense. I think you want

M1 and M2 are fundamentally the iPad chips that also go in Macs. So I don't think so. Brant asks, do you think we'll get lighter iPhones this year or are we in for heavier and heavier phones and screen sizes as screen sizes and battery sizes get bigger? I miss the days of the 4S to the 5, more screen lighter designs.

I don't know about if we're going to get heavier and heavier phones all the time because that soon becomes a problem, right? But I don't know about lightness. Like, I don't know if they're going to make them lighter because it's like materials plus yeah the batteries right but yeah yeah i i reject the premise of this question um bigger phones yes heavier and heavier and heavier oh every year the phones get heavier and bigger and heavier and

like there are bigger phones they sell well um there are also smaller phones is apple going to this is like did johnny Ive write this question? This is like everything should be thinner and lighter. Phones on average are going to be bigger because people like them. Hey, iPhone mini user here, I lost. No phones are getting bigger this year. Right. Well, the iPhone line as a whole will get bigger because they're going to replace the

iPhone mini with an iPhone Max, right? But it's not like the iPhone mini is getting bigger, get bigger because they're going to replace the iPhone Mini with an iPhone Max, right? But it's not like the iPhone Mini is getting bigger, right? It's just going to go away. Yeah, but they're not going to switch to like, people really like stainless steel. So this year we're going to do some iron. We're going to do an iron base. We're going to do lead based. Don't touch it. Don't lick it. It's's lead-based phone but it's heavy and people love heavy like you know there is there are always trade-offs going to be made but if you are somebody who says i miss the days of the forest to the five more screen lighter lighter designs like they will make it lighter and thinner when they feel like they can but the just just needing the battery to be

good and the screen to be big means that they're always going to be fighting against that also the forest of the five is i understand where you come from but it's a bad example because they changed materials right so they went from glass to aluminium that can't happen now because of wireless charging yeah and also the um the aluminum models right are the cheaper models and they are lighter because of that because they're not using the heavy stainless steel i think that they'll they'll keep doing that too the regular phones the pro phones you're saying yeah i want to be sympathetic here because i also like smaller lighter phones i don't think but i don't think that the the narrative that they're always getting bigger and heavier is accurate either I think it's there's a push and a pull an ebb and a flow to this sort of thing but if you're dreaming of the days of having

small light phones in general it's over so uh but Apple we're not gonna like fast forward to the iPhone 20 and it weighs four pounds, right? Like that's not going to happen. And Ryan asks, is there somewhere I can see my Apple Watch's battery health like I can for my iPhone? Why, yes, Ryan, if you go to settings on the watch itself, so you have to go to settings, there is a battery section. Inside of that, there is a button, which isn't very clear, that says battery section. Inside of that, there is a button which isn't very clear

that says battery health. You have to scroll down. You find it. It's buried in between two paragraphs for some reason. And you can find it. Mine is 92%. 95% here. Oh, look at you. Congratulations. Yeah, big battery boy here. I guess you are.

If you would like to send in a question of your own so we can help give you an answer on a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag AskUpgrade or use question mark AskUpgrade in the RelayFM members Discord. Thank you to CleanMyMac X,

Hover and Sourcegraph for the support of this show. Thank you for listening and thank you to our members who support the show directly. You can find out more and sign up today at GetUpgradePlus.com If you want to find Jason online, you can go to SixColors.com

TheIncomparable.com. He is at Jason L, J-S-N-E-L-L. Both Jason and I host other shows here at RelayFM. You can go to Relay.FM slash shows. Find a new show. There's going to be something in there for you to listen to. You're going to find something fun, I bet. I'm at imike, I-M-Y-K-E, and we'll

be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow. Goodbye, everybody.