Upgrade - 426: Splash Hit!

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

Jason reviews the iPhone 14, we speculate about how Apple could make an October Mac event worth having, Myke solves his iPhone migration problems, and we answer your Dynamic Island questions!

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 426 today's show is brought to you by doordash zocdoc rogamiba and new relic my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snow hi jason hi mike are you home now sure Sure am. Oh, good. That's good. Welcome back. That's good. Thank you. The time in the evening, you know, it's not so good.

I liked recording it that one time we did it in the morning. You know, that was nice. I like doing that. Yeah. You know, back in the evening again. And I have a hashtag snow talk question. It comes from Will. Will wants to know, Jason, is there a more beautiful baseball park, ballpark than Oracle Park? I'm not even a Giants fan, but I'll watch Giants home games just to see the baseball on the waterfront.

Hey, Will. I think you're right, although it's very hard for me to judge because that's the ballpark I've been to the most of any ballpark. But I would say it's my favorite. Is there a more beautiful ballpark I've been to the most of any ballpark. But I would say it's my favorite. Is there a more beautiful ballpark than Oracle Park? I will recommend a couple. PNC Park in Pittsburgh is beautiful. And also on the water. It's on the river in Pittsburgh. And Petco Park in San Diego is great. It doesn't have the water view, but it's right there on the water. And San Diego is awesome. So those are those are my other i'd say two favorites right now um there are there are lots of nice ballparks and lots of kind of boring ballparks but it used to be that

baseball parks were bad and then they built a bunch of good ones so that's good if you're a baseball fan wherever you live because i think almost you know know, sorry, Oakland. Sorry, Tampa. But otherwise, everybody's doing great. I don't know the Oakland and Tampa ones. But Tampa has a dome that was made a long time ago. And so you're watching baseball inside with weird catwalks and stuff like that. And it's generally considered bad. And Oakland, it's just very old.

And they took a good stadium and they ruined it and now they're not maintaining it because they want a new stadium so it's getting progressively worse it's a sad situation uh and i feel for the fans of oakland because their owners are terrible yeah there's a little baseball talk there mike i know you i know you're you know getting into american sports now so Yeah, you know me. I've only seen an MLB game at Citi Field. That's where I went to, which is the Mets. A Mets game. I haven't been to Citi Field.

I went to the old Shea Stadium, but I have not been to Citi Field yet. Good food. Options there. I liked it. I went to both of the New York stadiums

and then they tore them down and replaced them with new ones that I haven't been to. So I guess I'm going to have to go back to New York sometime. Yeah, very helpful to replace those.

I was looking at some pictures of Oracle Park today when I was picking this question. And I thought it did look very nice. I've driven past there. I've been in that area a bunch of times in San Francisco. And that looks like a great place to watch a baseball game, I will say. Yeah, it's beautiful. If they hit a home run, could they hit it into the water?

Or is that too far? It's called a splash hit, Mike. And yes, they've hit a couple hundred in there, yeah. Yes, splash hit? Splash hit. Wow, it's got its own name. It does. There's a little sign that counts

how many the Giants have hit. It's at like 96 or something now. And then the opposing team doesn't count for that. But they've also hit about that many. So like I said, it's at like like 96 or something now and then the opposing team doesn't count for that but they've also hit about that many so like i said it's about 200 oh it's of course 22 years only occur oracle park uh no although they occur most often at oracle park um and it's got to be on the fly you can also bounce it in it could occur anywhere if you hit it hard enough hard enough yeah you could just need the nearest body of water however most bodies of water are not that close um in is it did they do it in cincinnati or maybe it was in pittsburgh there's one one place where i saw that they actually did do it where it hit into the river um and that was very impressive because that's extremely hard to

do there it's it's uh it's kind of hard've got to be a left-handed hitter, basically, and hit it right down the line to get it out into the water on the fly into McCovey Cove, which is the name of the little water out there. But they've done it, yeah, a couple hundred times. It's pretty cool. Baseball fans are going to be very happy with today's episode because I also have a baseball-related Ask Upgrade for you later on. It's like Christmas morning.

Fantastic. I love it. I mean, or opening day, I guess. It's more like opening day, I feel like. That is the Christmas morning of baseball. Open the gate, roll out the baseballs. Here we go. That's what everybody does.

If you would like to send in a question for us to open a future episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnowTalk or use question mark SnowTalk in the RelayFM members' Discord. And a little real-time follow-up. A listener, Chris, pointing out that there is a swimming pool outside the fence in Arizona. Okay. That's not as exciting to hit it into a swimming pool, but it is kind of fun to hit the ball into the swimming pool. And they do hit home runs into the swimming pool there.

There you go. Baseball's landing in water. It's great. Splash hit. Yep. the swimming pool and they do hit home runs into the swimming pool there so you know just baseball's landing in water it's great splash hit yep oh this will be the last time uh this month that we encourage upgradians to go to donate to st jude children's research hospital as we are fast approaching the end of september oh. I am absolutely thrilled to say that we have met and exceeded our goal that we set for ourselves this year, which was just shy of $495,000.

As we record this episode, we have raised $514,785 for the Kids of St. Jude. What that means, Jason, is over the last four years, the RelayF FM community has come together and raised over $2 million now for the kids of St. Jude, which is an absolutely incredible thing.

And it's a number that I struggle to conceive of at this point. It's such a large number, like $2 million. So incredible. And I am and we all are so thankful for the support of our listeners to raise these incredible amounts of money for the kids of St. Jude

and this is for a very incredibly good cause because St. Jude Children's Research Hospital has a simple mission which is finding cures and saving children because cancer kills more children under the age of 14 than any other disease. It is a horrible thing.

And with the work of St. Jude, they are both treating children who have these life-threatening diseases, but also developing research and developing trials and developing cures to tackle childhood cancer. Like, for example, in 2021, they created a clinical trial which reported a more than 20-point improvement in survival rates

for high-risk neuroblastoma, which is the second most common solid tumor in children. They did it using an antibody produced at St. Jude and then share this research with the whole world. This is what makes St. Jude so special for me, is that not only are there a place which can take a child's life and save it, like they did for Stephen's son Josiah, but because they're a research hospital, they take this information and they share it with the whole world. So it may just be this one beautiful place in Memphis, but the money that you give to this hospital helps children and people all around the world. to this hospital helps children and people all around the world.

In Childhood Cancer Awareness Month, it is an opportunity in September for us to come together to fight against childhood cancer, because together we can make a big impact. So I will still urge you to go to stgeo.org slash relay, where you can donate. If you donate $60 or more, you'll receive a digital bundle, which has a wallpaper, a macOS screensaver pack, wonderfully created by Mr. James Thompson of Peacock fame,

which is just unbelievable. I can't wait for people to get these. I think it was just a couple of weeks now and people will start getting the macOS screensaver. I cannot wait. I actually want to, on Friday, me and Steven are going to be doing a final total celebration stream.

So it's going to be on Friday, September 30th at 12 p.m. U.S. Eastern Time. We's going to be on Friday, September 30th at 12pm US Eastern Time. We're going to hang out and play some games and close the fundraising campaign. We've never done this before. Usually we just close it and celebrate in like a Discord chat between us and the people at St. Jude. But we're actually this time going to close it and announce

the final total. On that stream I'm going to show the screensaver. So if you've been wanting to see what it looks like in all of its incredible glory uh i'm gonna find a way to show some of it on the uh with some you know really good drm i don't know how i'm gonna do that you know drm it i basically i'm just gonna show you what my laptop looks like running on uh so i want people to see it but people are gonna freak out when they see this thing it's so so good. All right, Mike, I direct your attention to the live Relay FM page of top donors

to see my official on-air $1,000 donation to the Relay campaign. Did it just now. Been waiting, been biding my time. I was traveling and was not able to sneak in there and put you over any of your uh you know your your milestones so i just decided i'm doing it on uh on upgrade doing it live so there it is there it is i can't you know i can't get high up on the leaderboard but i can push it

up by a thousand so now uh 453 713 dollars. That's on the relay campaign. So this is like that whole thing, but then including all of the sub campaigns which people set up throughout the month, which is incredible. The hundreds of people that have set up their own campaigns. That's how we have gotten to 515,000.

It's something that like, didn't know how that was going to go this year and could not be more thrilled at how many listeners have... But I'm giving not i'm not doing one of those campaign i'm just doing it straight into the relay fm so we're now at 515 785 dollars you're welcome jason boom so st geo.org slash relay and don't forget to join us on friday september 30th at 12 p.m u.s eastern time we'll hang out play some, and we'll close the fundraising campaign together. Thank you so much

to everybody for the support throughout the month. Apple Watch Ultra. I wanted to do a bit of a follow-out to this. You don't have one, right? I do not. Alas. And I don't have one. Stephen has one, because he

bought one. And we're going to talk about that on Connected this week. So I don't have one. Steven has one because he bought one. And we're going to talk about that on Connected this week. So I don't think I was not planning on bringing it up on today's episode because I don't have any opinions. I still want to go to an Apple store and try one on. But I'm not, you know, it's not going to be a thing that I think we're going to talk about in a lot of detail on the show. Yeah. They sent me a Series 8, which is weird because the Series 8, there's almost nothing to say about it. Yeah.

And I would love to try out the Ultra because I think it's the interesting product, right? But I'm looking forward to hearing what Stephen's got to say about it. It's been really interesting as people are getting them because they started arriving on Friday, right? It's been really interesting as people were getting them because they started arriving on Friday, right? And I feel like I was seeing way more people on like Twitter and Instagram and stuff with it

than I was expecting. Like it really feels like, and I get it, like people like they want it. It's the new big fancy watch. Like people that I know that aren't like rock climbers in my life, you know, getting one of these things. Yeah, exactly. It looks cool. All the rock climbers in my life you know getting one of these things but exactly it looks cool the rock climbers in your life the thing that i from the images that i've seen the thing that seems visually most interesting to me is the flat screen like there's something about

that that looks way cooler than i was expecting probably just because it's different. Yeah. I mean, it's the biggest design change to an Apple Watch, right? Yeah. I don't know. I'm curious about it. I've heard some people report that the problem is that there's no guard on the action button, so you can hit the action button by mistake a lot. Interesting. It's kind of funny.

They guarded the other buttons, but not that one. But I don't know. I'm curious. I think the action button is very interesting in terms of software and user interface in a way that we haven't really had before and i wonder as we've speculated about if it might be coming to the rest of the apple watches at some point have have an extra button but that they did it here first um but we'll see how useful it actually is and how good it is and how software is uh you know built to take advantage of it got some follow-up for you okay on my iphone setup so yes lasted a few more days after we spoke you know if you remember i had a very bad experience with transferring my iphone i don't

know exactly what happened i did the device to device transfer and it was really bad. And like I wasn't signed into any applications really. And a bunch of settings and apps got all messed up. I actually heard from a bunch of upgradians who had similarly frustrating iPhone transfers. Also those that went perfect. Really, I feel like this is one of those things. It's like a luck of the draw draw but i think what i have learned from this experience is if it doesn't work do it again right like which is what you recommended i do um and i did it in the end i got home uh from my travels and i had some issues with my e-sim which was nothing to do with the america the iphone being from america i was just having some issues with my carrier

like my carrier is not ready for the e-sim at large i feel like right people can have them now but the idea of everybody just all of a sudden needing e-sims it's not needed here right so there was just something weird on my account where like it just it wouldn't load the ability for me to change the to the e-sim over and i called i spoke to them and they were like give us a couple of days and then like three or four days later it worked and i did the transfer and it went flawlessly but i think they need maybe it was just like turned off on my account or something um i don't know why like or it just was never enabled this is a plan i've had for like 10 years so you know who knows at some point they just never did it right that

actually by the way makes today my first full day of using the 14 pro max as my actual phone phone because i just got the transfer done yesterday. But anyway, so I did that. But I decided to go the Jason Snell route and I restored again from iCloud. I just started over and it worked perfectly, basically. Good. Within the range of what I would expect, right? Some apps I had to sign into again,

which you always do, right? Like all of my Slacks get signed out of, which might be because I'm on the Slack page or I don't know, but I get signed out of everything. And, you know, I have to re-authenticate a bunch of things, but it was way within the remit that I expected,

you know, like that. Also, when I signed into some applications again, it wasn't like, oh, hi, we've never heard of you before, right? Which is what I was getting from a lot of my applications. Right. Because that data hadn't synced, right? Exactly.

That data was not because you had an imperfect restorer that was missing data. And, well, that's good. People swear by the device-to-device transfer. And I think that there are reasons why it's probably good but the fact is it can fail you know and and then you're left with an impartial um or not impartial an imperfect restore a partial restore and that's not good. And it also locks up both devices for a very long time. And, you know, that's why I prefer the iCloud restore. And the argument is yes, but the device to device restore is a more perfect thing where you don't have to log in. Like I get it.

I guess what I would say is all of the restorers have some stuff where you're going to have to re-log in, right? You can't escape all of it. Some, some stuff you have to re-log in anyway. And I don't find the iCloud restore to be that much more onerous than the regular restore.

And the advantage of the iCloud restore is your devices are yours again very quickly even though they're not entirely usable right away because they're still restoring over iCloud they're back in a usable state where you could make a phone call or something if you need to or set up some settings so um so yeah I and that's why I prefer the iCloud restore. Yeah. I hope I can remember, or maybe the upgradians come remind me. Uh, I'm, iCloud was all as worked well as well for me every other time as it did this time. I'm just going to do that because what I like about the iCloud restore is within 15 minutes, I can at least start poking around.

Exactly. That's, that's one of the great things about it is that you're not left sort of with this. So Julian did to his new phone, he did the device to device restore. And it but it came back and I think it was actually done and it had hung up on the end because it didn't look like he was missing anything. But it was, you know, he was without his old phone and his new phone for hours while that was going on. And that's, I mean, I don't't like it i don't like that approach uh i get why people might do it and then there's the itunes backup approach which requires you to do an itunes backup which i'm not a fan of that either so it's like finder now like it is in the finder yeah well yeah because there's no itunes anymore at least on the mac so yeah it's a and and that is can be kind of kind of shaky kind of there are a lot of quirks there again it's not that it doesn't work because if it works it will do a full restore and that's great but um there are lots of cases where it doesn't work yeah i'm happy now i'm all set up again and i'm never gonna doubt you or iCloud

ever again okay thank you i'm. I'm glad we got there. I have some follow-up about my Apple Watch, which I said last week, I was like, oh, my Apple Watch is fine. It just came right over. Bloop, bloop, no problem. And then I said, but I think I said I had a connectivity issue where it was like, well, why is it not connecting to cellular?

And it was sporadically not connecting to cellular, and that was weird. It turns out that what also happened is I was actually in a zombie Apple Watch state where it actually wasn't a successful transfer. And it ended up in the famous, I know Marco mentioned this on ATP last week, the famous, the Apple Watch thinks it's fine, but no phones will admit to being connected to it. My old phone isn't connected to it. My new phone is like, would you like to set up an Apple Watch? And I'm like, well, wait a second. I thought I transferred my Apple Watch over here. And so I had to reset my Apple Watch and repair it and restore it from a backup that was from the day I got the phone. And then it went back and it works fine now, more or less.

Like there were some, again, some defaults that got changed where I'd be like, oh, yes, please put the apps in a list. And, you know, I don't want to get a notification for this. And you need to add these apps back to the watch. And that's not my favorite, but I got there. But anyway, my successful Apple Watch transfer was actually not successful. It also ended up in this weird in-between state and I had to reset it, which was not the best.

It was definitely a foreshadowing on last week's episode, right? When you were like, sometimes it doesn't see the phone but it seems fine i guess in those moments it's just connected to wi-fi right it just the moment the moment that the jig was up is when i i was like i need to adjust the setting oh that's on the apple watch app on the iphone i guess i need to open that up and i opened it up and it said hey welcome to apple watch would you like to add an apple watch and i thought oh no like, no, you should know. We did this.

We talked about this. And that was when I realized that the whole thing was a lie. My Apple Watch was acting cool, but it actually had no idea what it was doing, and I had to restore. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at DoorDash. What do you want to eat tonight? Maybe you want a home-cooked favorite, but you don't feel like going to the store?

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wouldn't want to eat out every night when you're at home and it's the same when i'm traveling and i really value doordash for that experience as well for a limited time our listeners can get 25 off their first order of 15 or more when you download the DoorDash app and enter the code UPGRADE2022. That's 25% off, up to $10 of value on your first order when you download the DoorDash app in the app store and use the code UPGRADE2022. Don't forget, that's UPGRADE2022 for 25% off your first order with DoorDash. Shove it to change, terms apply. Our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. It's time for a rumor roundup, Jason Snell. Oh, great. Bring it on.

So I have an iPhone 14 demand update from a friend of the show, Ming-Chi Kuo. Ming-Chi Kuo posted this on Medium. So it's like a post which you can see on Medium because he does have a Medium page as well as a Twitter account now, which I like. I love that Ming-Chi Kuo was like, okay, I'm tired of people getting my subscription

analyst reports in Chinese to my clients and translating them into English and reporting them in the press. So I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to put things out there, including in English, on my Medium blog and my Twitter account. Great. It's great. Just go to the source. And the two kind of interesting pieces of information that me and you were talking about,

because you sent me this as well. One is that iPhone 14 Pro models will account for 60% to 65% of shipments in H2 of 2022. And this is based on, so Apple's done its, you know, they've spoken to the suppliers and rejigged their supply chain for like what models will be manufactured in larger quantities and stuff, right? So they kind of forecast out.

And so now that they've done that and they've made the changes to the supply chain, this is what Meek2Quote will now expect, that 60% to 65% of iPhone shipments will be the Pro models of some description. With the 14 Pro Max accounting for 30% to 35% of total iPhone 14 shipments across all of the iPhone 14 models

that are currently available, I would guess, because there's no way you could know about the Plus because Apple don't know about that yet. Can you even pre-order the Plus yet? I don't think so, right? I don't know. I think that starts in October. I don't know if it starts shipping in October.

I don't think you can pre-order it yet either. But anyway, all this to say, the iPhone 14 Pro Max is the most popular model right now that doesn't surprise me right does it surprise you uh a little bit but again i think the lesson is that never bet against big phones right like never they're not big phones are not we think of them or we could think of them as an outlier that it's it's you's the other side of the bell curve. That's not the case. They are very popular.

And so the idea that the 14 Pro Max is the most popular one, those of us who don't like big phones need to be comfortable with the fact that the general rule is that the bigger the phone, the more people like it. And up to a point beyond which Apple has not gone. So it's not surprising when you think about it that way. I think the one caveat I would put in here is this is second half of this year. And obviously there are huge sales spikes in the second half when the new iPhones come out. I think though people who buy iPhones in this period from now to the end of the year

tend to be a little more hardcore as iphone buyers and so i i don't i don't want to overstate it but i suspect that the mix is leaning toward the most expensive products once they're released because the people who are super into it are buying them then whereas my guess is that the mix is really different in april right when it's not anybody who's like oh the new iphone i gotta get it it's literally somebody who says oh yeah my iphone broke i guess i need to go get a new iphone and it's april uh so here i am at the apple store in april this is the time where they sell the most iPhones though, right? For sure.

For sure. I mean, there's a spike because it's new iPhones and the new iPhone is the biggest motivator, but they do continue to sell them. And I think the mix changes. I suspect the mix changes over time. Oh, I have no doubt. But right now, you know, they sell the most.

And right now, or just about right now, right? Like they sell the most in the holiday quarter um or or just about right now right like they sell the most in the holiday quarter which we're not quite in i think but we're getting very close their quarters don't exactly line up to months but they're pretty close and so uh they're getting the next three the next three months right they sell the most and even then i think the mix is probably a little bit different but um but regardless like the fact is the pro their strategy of segmenting these things into pro and non-pro it seems to be working in the sense that the pro is not some isolated strange product their most expensive base model is their most popular phone that's not an accident uh just as real-time follow-up

you can order the plus right now, and it starts shipping in October. You'll get it when you get it. I'm looking at it now on the Apple.com website, and it says it delivers October 7th. So that was the date. You can still order one now, it seems, and it will still arrive on the day they expect it. great I never really know what to think particularly about just general analyst statements but I wanted to bring this one up now because I just thought it was interesting JP Morgan because like Ming-Chi Kuo seems to have like sources that I can tie my head like I can

wrap my head around. I feel like I can tie them together. It's known that he's very connected in the supply chain, and he talks about that in that way. But then when we talk about JP Morgan analysts, is this connected to anything, or is it just because they think? I don't know.

I don't know. But anyway. It would depend on the analyst, and it would depend on their track record, and I would say we don't know. The presum. It would depend on the analyst and it would depend on their track record. And I would say we don't know. The presumption here is that they have sources, but who knows if they actually have sources. And what I also like about Ming-Chi Kuo is it's a person, right?

I could be like, that's what Ming-Chi Kuo said. But JP Morgan is like, that's not a person. You know what I mean? There probably was a JP Morgan at some point. There was. But that's not the person i mean there probably was a jp morgan at some point but that's not the person he's talking about iphones uh jp morgan are expecting that by 2025 25 of iphone production will be in india with five percent of iphone 14s being made in india by the end of 2022 they go on to say that they expect that this 25% figure will actually end up being the same for other product lines that Apple makes as they continue to want to

diversify where the products are made, where like most of this stuff is being made in China, not entirely, but most, but to the level of 25% across kind of the whole stuff that they make, that is a big change. With the caveat being, I think it's an interesting caveat, they are still likely to be mostly produced, if not wholly produced, by Foxconn-owned factories in India. Right. So I'm still not sure how diversified that is, because people are talking about, like, you know, what we spoke about in the show before in the past, one of Apple's biggest risks is that all of their products are made in China. And if they end up having issues with China or if there's issues between the Chinese and American governments, it could cause a problem for Apple's business.

But Foxconn is a Chinese company. So is that still an issue for them? I don't know. But I think it is just good business for them to be moving their product around a little bit more than the way it is being done right now, if they can do it. There's a bunch of things going on here, right? There's the conversation about diversifying Apple because it's so tied into China. And although these factories are in India, their contractor is a Chinese company. However, the other part of this is geographic diversity. It's the idea that, remember when they couldn't make Macs for a while because all the Macs were being assembled in one region of China?

Like, that's part of it, too. So I think that what's going on here is both of those things is let's not have everything happen in one country. But also let's not have everything happen in one region, which is why I wonder about Apple being more geographically diverse within China for some of its products just to kind of keep that separate. But I think the bigger drive is also to just get other stuff made on in other places so that if anything happens right they've got a little bit uh being made in different places this is a long process and difficult one and complicated and we'll see what they're doing but it's interesting to see that they're they're trying to get some iphone production into some other parts of the world i have a mini roundup of what montgerman's newsletter spoke about this week

this is like the bar you know like if you imagine the room around up it like it occurs within us like a western town the power on newsletter is like a saloon inside of the town because it's its own thing right oh uh i want to make a note of something I said there that wasn't quite right. Foxconn technically is Taiwanese, but they are the largest private employer in the People's Republic of China. So it's not a Chinese company. It's a Taiwanese company, but it's got lots of employees in China. So it's, you know, again, I think, I mean,

there's a question of like what happens if something happens between China and Taiwan. But the idea here is it's, you know, again, I think, I mean, there's a question of like what happens if something happens between China and Taiwan. But the idea here is it's. That is a good clarification to me. It is. Yes. It's a company based in Taiwan, but a huge employer in China and also in other places. But they also they trade in China as a Chinese company and in Taiwan as a Taiwanese company. A lot of interlinking still going on here. But I think the larger point is that assembling things in a factory in India

is spreading it out a little bit. That's the larger point. Yeah, it's like Foxconn also have, they're building in U.S. places. And they have places in mexico malaysia brazil nevertheless i think that the issue what i was getting i think kind of remains of like yes i oh i agree i'm assuming that the the people's republic of china could put a lot of pressure on foxconn if they wanted to and you know apple apple, like, obviously this is politically fraught and you don't want to anger China and make it seem like Apple is abandoning China or hedging against China.

But there are other ways to pitch this. One is the geographic diversity. One is the fact that there are countries like Brazil and India that want you to build the products in their countries. Otherwise, there's a big tariff. And that gives you some rationale for it. I feel like there's all sorts of cover that you can have for increasing where you make your stuff across the world that makes it seem less like you're hedging against China or imagining a scenario where you're not building things in

China while that actually sort of is happening behind the scenes by couching it in other ways. It's something to just watch. This is super complex stuff and a tough grapple. And I'd imagine a lot of the stuff that's being built in China is full of components that are literally just being shipped from, or in India, shipped from China to India to work on it. So it's not like it's a free supply chain by any means, but it's something. All right, let's go into the saloon. We're going back into the power on saloon. So according to Mark Gurman, he is predicting there will be no October event.

Mark expects that the rest of this year's product releases will occur via press release, with the main focus still being on the Mac and the iPad. Yeah, how about that? I mean, it wraps up the Upgrade Draft Championship for you this year, if that's the case. I had not considered that. if that's the case. I had not considered that. I am now in full agreement with Mark that this should be press releases only.

So, you know, I read his newsletter as being a little more equivocal than that, but it definitely was one of these kind of like, I don't see how this could be an event. I see how this could be an event, because again, a lot of these events are are just a video but but the truth is um these could be press releases they could be briefings for press in advance of video let me let me get it and i'll read the full quote let me get it here because i

think it you know these things they kind of get spoken about backwards and forwards a little bit so I've been thinking a lot lately about Apple's remaining product releases 2022 and he lists them none of these new products is a major departure for Apple they'll get some improved specifications and a chip that was already announced at a formal event in June that has me thinking does Apple really have enough here to make it worth pulling together another highly polished launch event? It seems unlikely. Apple may ultimately end up feeling differently, but I think the company as of now is more likely to release its remaining 2022 products via press releases, updates to its website, and briefings with select members of the press rather than via a major iPhone-style keynote.

Now, everything he says there is entirely reasonable. iPhone style keynote. Now, everything he says there is entirely reasonable. However, I will say, at no point in there does he say somebody at Apple suggested any of that is true. Now, one of the games that one can play is to get something inside that they're not allowed to say came from inside. And it's possible that what he's doing here is reasoning out loud, but his reasoning is underlied by something he knows but can't say. Right? Like the idea that somebody says, well, look, this can't be coming from Apple, but I don't think it's going to happen. And he's like, oh, well, that informs my thought that it's not going to happen.

But if you take it on its surface, it's Mark spitballing about what he thinks about this event. I think he's got a point, right? Which is that if it's Mac mini and really it's the laptops and if it's M2 versions of the laptops, mini and really it's the laptops and if it's m2 versions of the laptops but what they really are is just faster m2 pro and max versions of the existing laptops and uh you know an ipad update and they're all kind of updates of existing products is there an event there if that's all there is i think it's a good question if there's you know there could be um macbook pro is not you know not to be sneezed at but in the past apple has released macbook pros with no events uh the they did the big 16 inch macbook pro release with no event um so it could be that they do this via briefings and press releases and, you know, or briefings and a video presentation, right?

Like they could do that. So I just want to say though that, so it's like Mark Gurman thought about it. And I think analyzing what is known based on a lot of his reporting and other people's reporting, it does feel a little bit scant for an October event. But what he's not reporting is that his sources inside Apple say they're not doing an October event. So that's one of those things where it's like, I think it's a good possibility that he's right. But that's not the same as Mark Gurman's sources tell him they're not doing it. Yeah, we can't know for sure, right? But this is what he is talking about right now and i follow his line of thinking in a certain set of circumstances right like if basically all

that's happening is the macbook pros will get m2 versions of their chips and the ipad pros will get m2 chips with some other small updates it might not not be, like, a lot, but you never know. Let me give the counter proposal, which is, what if they take all of that stuff, which includes, he's right, the M2 got unveiled, but the M2 is not that interesting. The M2 is interesting, but the Pro and the Max, they're more interesting and then we throw in the mac pro and you get to reintroduce the world to mac os ventura and ipad os 16.1 right you can do all of that like there you can look i you can make an event out of all of it yeah right so so that's that's my scenario is if if you wanted to bring in so one

if you wanted to bring in that rumored um fancier external display with these laptops and the ipad pro that wouldn't be a bad time to do it does mark have a read on the timing of that i don't know he hasn't talked about in a long time maybe that could be on the agenda and you roll that in because you can you could point that out for the ip and the Mac at this point. And then the Mac Pro, again, is not going to be a product release. Right. And Mark Gurman has reported about the Mac Pro being in the works, but maybe not ready to go. But they could announce that thing and boast about it as part of the context of, you know, down in the chip lab with M2 Pro and Max and Ultra and this thing too, and this is what we're doing with M2 and lay it all out there and say, you know,

Mac Pro is coming, you're going to be able to pre-order it later this, you know, later this fall and it'll ship by the end of the year or ship early next year or whatever. Like they could do that anytime. This is not, if they can announce it months in advance with no penalty, which I think they can, and they've got an event that is Mac and iPad Pro, but like it's a Mac event and it's toward the end of the year. And if it's in the window

and it's feeling a little scant on top of it, and you're also announcing your high-end M2 chips, like it's not the worst time to do the Mac Pro rollout and call it an event and have it be, give the Mac and iPad some love in a dedicated event. It's not the worst idea in the world. So not saying they'll do it. I'm saying that I could think of a scenario where you're more optimistic than Mark Gurman about this and where Apple says, no, we're going to do something, especially if it's fairly low key, right?

Like, again, they could do a video event with some press briefings and not have it be the big show that the iPhone event was. Mark also spoke about Apple Pay later being pushed back to spring 2023. So I know we speak about a bunch of these things now, of like Apple installment plans, all that kind of stuff. The Apple Pay Later feature was announced at WWDC.

This is the thing where you can use Apple Pay to split a payment of anything, really, into four payments, right? So I think this is US only to begin. It's kind of like these services like klana and stuff like that mark says i'm hearing there have been fairly significant technical and engineering challenges in rolling out the service leading to the delays interestingly mark says it will be 16.4 i'm not exactly sure uh how he knows it will be 16.4 in the spring but well i mean he's got he's got somebody who has looked at the release board yeah that has i just found that part so funny you know yeah yeah so 16.4 uh okay

mark is also doubling down on the idea that we've been talking about over the last few weeks of the iphone 15 ultra replacing the pro max right with the 15 line also including the shift to usbc across all of the phones that we've been talking about so ultra he he really likes that idea and i think the implication there is that maybe that is a that is a phone that is like the Apple Watch Ultra, appreciably different from the Pro instead of it just being a larger Pro. And sounds good. Great. I mean, yeah, I wonder if that's like, if it's the camera improvements, maybe there's

a huge camera change that only fits in the larger model. I don't know. We'll see.ope maybe but if we take it back around to the beginning of the rumor roundup if the pro max is accounting for 30 to 5 30 to 35 percent of the current all of the line yeah maybe it's good to give it its own name when it's only differentiated by size i'll point out right like imagine what it might happen if it was also differentiated by size i'll point out right like imagine what it might happen if it was also differentiated by features so people were even more right because you could be like i only want the best iphone and then you look at the pro and the max pro and the pro max and you say man like the the pro is still the best iphone that's just a larger version of

it i'll get that one but if you have ultra and it is the best and it has some of those features you're like oh well then i want that one that one because I only want the best iPhone. Like it's going to pull people, even more people up to the high-end iPhone and also might let them raise the price. So there's that too. This episode is brought to you by ZocDoc. ZocDoc makes it easy to find quality doctors in your network and in your neighborhood with real, verified patient reviews that you can help to find the right doctor for you. ZocDoc is a free app. It will show you these doctors they're patient reviewed, right? Now take your insurance. They're available when you need them. That is a fantastic mix of things.

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When he says Z, he means Z. You know, I heard it that time. Because usually I say Z, I think, when I'm doing it, but that's just how it went today. Let's talk about the iPhone 14 line again. So you have, I believe by the time this episode has published, you have published your review of the iPhone 14s. What the world has been waiting for.

There's no review. A review posted much after the release of the product. Yay. So, no, I'm going to give you some credit because I think you're being too hard on yourself. I said this to you before we started today. I've read your review. You sent it to me in advance.

And I think it's very good. And in a way that I know is really hard because as you say, right, like there have been so many reviews now and this isn't one of those, like I've lived with it for six months. Here's a review kind of thing. This is, no, I've lived with it for six months, here's a re-review kind of thing. This is, hey, no, I've had it for a week.

Let me tell you what I think about it. But I think you bring your unique viewpoint to the phones, and I think you do a really good job of breaking down some of the interesting parts of it. So much so that I wanted to talk about some of these things today, if you'll allow me to. So one of the things you talk about about and i think your whole review is framed around something we've been talking about on the show for the last couple of weeks is this like this being the perfect example year of this thing that apple's been building to for a while and do it on and off of like no we're splitting the phone lines like we call them all 14 but there are big differences between the 14 and the 14 pro the two phones that are in each right yes but you argue that it's good for

apple and good for buyers well i think it is good it's good for apple because they're increasing the potential average selling price of the iphone and money money money money money right you know yeah it's good we know all about it youally, results will come out soon, and we'll talk about that again. But it's also good for buyers in, I know this is a strange way to phrase this, but think about it this way. If you look at the pro phones and what they have doesn't interest you or doesn't make a difference, you can just save your money. I mean, that's the truth of it, is they're different and there's a true alternative and it's a brand new phone. And I will admit the iPhone 14 itself is as marginally brand new as an iPhone has ever been because there's so little that has changed from last year, but it's also, you know, quite a bit cheaper than the pro models. And for a lot of people,

they don't care about that. I mean, I went right through this with my son who I did not say he couldn't get an iPhone pro. And he was like, man, iPhone 14 is fine. Like that was really his take on it. And he was coming from like an iPhone 10. Right. So he was going to pick up a lot of features anyway. But yeah, he was just fine with it. And that saved, and that made me happy because it saved me money. I like this, what do you say? If they're choosing to spend money on the more expensive phone, they want to know what they're getting for their money. And if those features don't impress, you can save your money, right? And I like that as like, hey, look, if you read this, you're like, I don't want it

because I just want the 14. Well, you don't need to get this one and so maybe the small jump is good and psychologically if you're going to spend on the expensive phone you want to know that you're getting your money's worth right you want you want to know like i'm getting something for this i'm not i'm not getting this just to get one more gpu or i'm not getting this just to get stainless steel and a matte matte back of the phone right instead of the shiny one that's slightly different you know like i want tangible features and so over the last couple of years because remember there was a there was a moment with the iphone 13 where the the 13 and 13 pro were almost identical except for the the one camera that was extra like everything else about

them that was a generation where I really felt like you should just get the non-pro because they look better and the differences between them are pretty minor. And like, it was kind of funny. Or the 12, right, with the 12 generation. 13 generation pushed it, like the ProMotion display, like it started to pull them apart.

And now they are way apart. They have different chips in them, different chip generations between the 14 and the 14 pro. And the camera has advanced so much in the 14 pro. And in addition to promotion, you also have the brightness and you have the always on display and you have the dynamic Island. Like they are way apart now. And that's in, in a couple of cycles. You go from the 12 where you might as well just get the low-end one because they're not really that different all the way to the 14 where they are way far apart in terms of functionality. And that's something that Apple has made a point of doing, right? We talked about the idea of an Apple Watch or an iPhone Ultra like the Apple Watch Ultra. Well, this is how it starts, right? First,

you got to pull your stack of four phones that are only different really in terms of looks and size and maybe one camera. You start pulling them apart. And after a couple of years, you've really started to open up some differentiation between them. And I think differentiation is good because it's clear. Again, it's good for buyers too, because it's very clear what you're buying. There's this or this and they are different and they're different enough for you to make a choice about is the difference worth the money when they're all kind of muddled together. It's not good for anyone. Yeah, it is interesting to think that like within the next couple of years we could be looking at like five distinct iphones right if you include the se that they make like they're distinct in some way from each other um like much more than they are now they're like five brands five devices and they

all have a slightly different set of features that is an interesting thing like i don't like i wonder like does it get too complicated at that point? I don't know. I guess that's the thing that we'll have to see bear out over time. But as it stands for right now, in my position of being somebody who's excited and interested about this stuff and talks about it professionally,

I like the idea of the differentiation because it allows for a different dimension on what we can think about and talk about you called the dynamic island a significant evolution of ios yeah i mean it is it is that right they they took again i i admire them taking something that that they could have just seen as a blemish to hide which is the idea that they still have these sensors cutting out into their screen. And they like the edge to edge ish screen, but they want, uh, the sensors

that they have to be there. And although they don't take up as much space as they used to, they still are cutting into the screen. They could have hidden it. They chose instead to use it as a prompt to build an ongoing status feature. I think that's great. I think it has a lot of potential. Also, though, you can't... I mean, well, let me back up and just say also, this is how do you do multitasking on an iPhone? I know that in the Unconnected, Federico talks and you guys joke about split screen coming to the big iPhones and things like that. It's like the iPhone is just not practical for that kind of thing, right? It's too small.

Even the big one is too small. Well, I think that's not a joke. I think they could do it. It is no joke. I've used Android devices that do it. Is it the best? No. But is it good in a pinch?

Yes. Right? I don't know if Apple's going to sign on to is it the best? No. But the thing is, picture in picture exists. And I can have a huge video window that covers up a third of my display at any time. So they can do it. They can.

They seem really reluctant. But the point is, look, they're trying something else here, which is essentially Dynamic Island is allowing you to get data from two apps at once. And it's a background thing, and it's like a status and notification. It is the smallest of scales, I think I say, of single screen multitasking. But it is multitasking. So they are trying to build this thing in to kind of redefine what's happening in the background while you're using a single app because that's basically the metaphor on the iPhone is there's one app at a time. But there's other stuff going on, too, and you should know about it. The problem is that they shipped all of this without the live activities API, which they announced in June but hid part of and said, anyway, it's not going to ship until later in part because it wasn't going to be ready or whether

this was entirely just we're going to pull that feature out because we don't want to give away the details of what we're doing with the dynamic island and you know that's a choice they can make but the net result is that one of the big feeders of value into the dynamic island is not available and won't be available until another software update. And meanwhile, also the software developers have to figure out how they want to use it and implement it and release their products with it. And I think that's a problem because it means the dynamic island is essentially unfinished right now. And it feels unfinished. It's got like, yeah, sure. There's some Apple apps. And if you play audio or do calls, basically, you pick it up for free because those APIs support it. And Apple has integrated some, but not all, of its status information in there.

I'm always surprised when there's like, oh, when I mute my ringer, that goes in there and my face ID goes in there. But when I activate, oh, and if I run a shortcut, it goes in there and my face ID goes in there. But when I activate, and if I run a shortcut, it goes in there. But if I activate Siri, no, it doesn't do it there. What? And every so often I see something and I'm like, why is that not in the dynamic island? And I think the answer is that they didn't get to it. So it's one of these things where for whatever reason or reasons, the dynamic island is an unfinished feature or at least an unfed feature. And so who can judge, right?

Like we're going to all need to live with it and see what happens and see what developers do before we can really render a final judgment about it. And also I'll throw out there that like the touch bar or something like that. Sorry to mention the touch bar, but the other part of this is that Apple needs to continue to press on it. I think that there are places where it could be improved and should be improved over time. And we won't know that until next WWDC. But I would really like Apple to show that it thinks the dynamic island is important and not a product that they you know release consider done walk away from and then it you know fades away in a few years i really do like the

idea i hadn't considered it as like multitasking but i guess it it is and it will be um i think this is i know everyone's saying it but it really is one of these things where like right now for me it's like a curiosity it's something i see every now and then it's like an animation i enjoy you know that kind of stuff there's a little piece of information that i get like now whenever i put my airpods in i get a battery indication immediately which i like they've just put it in there right like it's little parts like oh that's fun but it really is going to take the like well when i order a car and i see how long it's going to take and you know when i order food and i see how long that's going to be or when i'm you know keeping track of something

you know all of that stuff like that's where it's going to really come into its own potentially right and it is hard to know right now like will this feel like multitasking or will this just feel like a notification i don't know but i'm intrigued yeah and and i do think that they they they've been very i think what i said in the article is they've been very conservative with it right they're being very careful with these features because they don't want to like first off they can't really revamp all of ios because it's only on this one you know two models basically um right now but at the same time they could do more they could push more things into the dynamic island and i i'm sure that they had an internal discussion about like

what goes in there and what doesn't but i'm not convinced that what we're seeing is the complete final result of that one because i think they don't know and two because i think they're things that they just decided they didn't have time to reinvent. And so they just sort of left them out there. But I do, by opening that door, every interruption I see on my iPhone that is not in the dynamic island makes me say, why is this not? And sometimes the answer is a good answer, but sometimes I go, I'm not,

I think that this should be there and they just chose or decided they couldn't do it. And I just think that's, it's an interesting place to put yourself. But I think once you say, here's the dynamic island, you are opening yourself up as Apple to having your users go, wait a second, if this is so great, why doesn't it do that? And that's why it's, you know, like I said, I don't want to call it an unfinished feature, but it's certainly a 1.0 and it's a 1.0 kind of feature without developer support. So it feels very much like that. Like anything that ships on a brand new

device where it's revolutionary and amazing, but all that really supports it launches Apple apps and some stuff that they've sort of swept in. That's literally what this is, is that. And so, you know, to be and I'm I'm reviewing it in the context of an iPhone because these iPhones are the ones that that offer it right now. But it also is really at this point a software story going forward. It's a it's a It's really an iOS story. It starts on this hardware, but then from now on, the Dynamic Island, if we do a follow-up review about the phones,

I think that really there should be a follow-up review at some point about the Dynamic Island because where is it going? Because the hardware is not changing, right? It's the software that will make a change. One of the things that I am really intrigued about, and I actually think is good, is that all of the Dynamic Island stuff is powered by live activities, which exists on all iPhones with iOS 6. Or it's 0.1, right?

It will exist. Yeah. I could have imagined that they're like, oh, we just made this thing for the Dynamic Island. But they didn't. I just think that thing for the dynamic island you know but they didn't i just think that's kind of cool that so at least other people will still be able to benefit from it we'll we'll see i mean it'll be on lock screens right non non always on lock screens on other devices will also show this i assume it also just shows the notification center in general right

i that's that right that's that's my guess but i think that that's going to be an ongoing question when we talk about ios 17 is is there a way to integrate information where does the live activities information show right what are the proper places for it because there are a lot of devices that don't have the dynamic island and so can i flip up or down somewhere and see my live activities? And perhaps that's the answer is it's literally it's in notification center. And so you have to do extra work if you're not using the dynamic island. That's fine. Or you have to lock your phone and see it on the lock screen, which is maybe less good because then

you have to unlock your phone. I don't know. It's something to watch because it is a new thing that Apple is kind of experimenting with on two phone models right now. For now. You don't seem too keen on the always-on. I'll read this line. What does leaving the iPhone screen on actually accomplish? I just thought it was like pretty skewering i mean yeah not trying i mean i didn't write that sentence and go haha i got him uh that's right we got him everybody victory um well i i was struck we

were having dinner with my uh with my kids up kids while we were dropping my son off at college. And my daughter says, because I got the phone laying out on the table at the restaurant, and she says, why is it on? She was kind of disturbed by it, which is not a reaction I expected. It's like, oh, that's cool. It's always on. It's like, no, she didn't like it. And some of that is just not used to it, and phones are very important to her, and it's a phone doing a weird thing.

But it did make me think, okay, why is it like this? why is it like this? And my, my, so this is my, this is my answer, which is what is asking me question? What does it accomplish? What is it for? Why is it like this? And if you want to say, well, I like that my phone is, you know, hanging out on my desk, my desk, and I look and I can see the time and I can see a picture that's on it. It's like, fair enough, like fair enough. But for me, I'm a little more skeptical about that. Like it, and again, this is a case where we don't have live activities view, right? So there, there, if it's populated with live activities, it is maybe a little more dynamic, not island dynamic, is maybe a little more dynamic not island dynamic by the way but just dynamic a little more um it's interesting that they took you know they compacted all of the notifications so you don't see so many notifications now so notification comes in and if you're looking you to see the top, the last four. So that's not it. Um, it just, I, I,

I like the idea of it and I appreciate the technical prowess that went into it. Also in my case, you know, I wear a watch. I have the time on all my devices. I'm not, there's very few circumstances where I'm going to use the iPhone as my only source of time. Now, if you sleep next to your iPhone and you can see glasses, I suppose, then, but in sleep mode, it turns itself off. So maybe that's not even an answer. So I guess what I'm saying is I struggle a little bit with the why of this feature, not that it's not impressive and not that it couldn't be something. Also, it is pretty dim.

A lot of the photos that I put on it, I can't really see them that clearly because it's dim. So it doesn't become like a great showcase for my photos like I thought it might. It is, the widgets are okay, right? That you can put some live widgets, but even there, the power of it is kind of blunted by the fact that the lock screen widgets

are limited to that one strip and the one text thing at the top when there should probably be more. And again, let me decide if I want a lock screen full of widgets, but it feels like Apple saying, well, look, we've got this great new information strip and you can really only put three or four things up there.

Because if you put more, it will make, we won't like how your phone looks. It's like, well, it's my phone. If these information things are so great and I want an always on display that's full of information, let me do it. And Apple has decided, no, you don't get to do that. So, and again, maybe part of that is solved by the live activities thing hasn't shipped, doesn't exist. So I tried to be enthusiastic about the always on display and where I ended up is, I think it's a curiosity that needs to prove itself. And for me, it hasn't.

think it's a curiosity that needs to prove itself and for me it hasn't i struggle to say why i like it but i do like it i just find it interesting to just have the information that i've chosen to put on my lock screen there all the time i don't love it but i like it i i'm definitely not having the negative reaction that i'm seeing from a lot of people. Yeah. And, you know, keeping in mind, I'm writing a review here, right? So it's like reviewing anything critically. I, as a regular user, I would probably say what you say, which is, oh, it's kind of cool. It stays on and you can look at it and there's stuff. And that's all true. But when I try to look at it critically as a reviewer, I look at it and ask that question like, well, okay, what does this get me? Other than draining my battery faster, what does this get me? And I feel like that's where Apple has not lived up to the feature.

Apple has not done all that it could, including some, you know, some of this may just be, is this a good feature or not? And I think it probably is fine, but some of it is Apple's own failures, which is, like I said, live activities, API not being there, limited ability to put widgets on the lock screen, stuff that, you know, rolling up all the notifications, which I support as an idea, but like if I got an always on display and I know, you know, on the old version of iOS, I could have theoretically seen three or four notifications. And now I can't because they rolled them all together. Um, it, it just, it's, it's curious.

So, so when I started sort of interrogating like it, like that, I ended up coming away feeling like, even though on, on the surface, it's like this is cool uh beyond that i you know like my daughter said like oh why it's like oh why hmm it could be a lot better i guess that's what i'm saying and i think that's all like the dynamic island it's a little bit in apple's hands to make it better and since we last spoke you've been taking some raw photography yeah you know i went down there's a bridge um near my house that i like to take pictures at some people that people like to take pictures out i hear the bay bridge uh no it's not the one okay it's an orange it's the orange one the orange bridge that's what they call it and so i went down there and i took a bunch of pictures uh i mean i've been

taking pictures with it everywhere. I was saying to Lauren that this is every, when you get the new iPhone and you're reviewing it, everything suddenly is a photo opportunity. So you start doing like, okay, I take a raw, I take a non-raw, I take the 1X and the 2X and the 3X and the 0.5X. And you do the whole kind of rigmarole so you can compare them later.

But I did take a bunch down by the water and by the 0.5 X and you know, you do the whole kind of rigmarole so you can compare them later. But I did take a bunch down, um, by the water and by the bridge. And, um, you know, that 48 megapixel camera is, is staggeringly good. Like that's my, that's my real top line feeling about it is that you can have an iPhone with that level of detail is shocking. It's so good. And I think that if you're somebody who really fancies themselves an iPhone photographer and one of your hobbies is taking pictures, but you do a lot of it with your iPhone and you do shoot in RAW

or you've thought about shooting in RAW, but you process your images and maybe you put them on prints or or on posters or like if you care about this that might be enough to upgrade just to get access to that 48 megapixel sensor because it's especially bright light it is remarkably good what's funny the level of detail is truly unbelievable if you take this the photo side by side it really is quite quite surprising yeah yeah yeah what's funny is apple has locked that feature out for most users that's the that's again i find a curious choice. And again, I understand why Apple chose to do it.

Apple is thinking the regular photographer is just shooting snapshots. And so what we're getting with the 48 megapixel sensor for the regular person is two things. One is quad pixel binning. So we're not using it as a 48. We're using it as a really good 12 megapixel camera with good low light performance. Great. That's really good. And the other thing that you get is the 2X camera, which is not a camera, but just a

crop of the inside 12 megapixels of the 48 megapixel sensor. But that's really nice because it means that you are able to use that sensor to get a, That's really nice because it means that you are able to use that sensor to get a, it's a crop, but it's, it's the context is instead of letting you do a 48 megapixel picture and crop it, they're like, well, we're going to pre crop it for you. And it's not going to have the low light performance that the quad pixel binning has because it's turned off, but you are going to get a different, another camera view. And the two X view is really nice. So it's giving, apple's giving the users that

but what it's not doing is saying yeah but i want to take this at 48 and so you have to go into settings into camera and then you have to go into a sub menu you have to turn on raw and say i want to shoot 48 raw and then you have the ability to toggle raw on and off in the camera yeah then it's really easy like it is easy then because you just got that button there all the time even then you don't have the option of shooting like a 48 megapixel um heath image it has to be raw and that means and it's like another barrier so apple has erected all these barriers to using the sensor and i get it like on one level i get it It is not for most people. The files are huge. Most people would prefer the lower light performance from the quad pixel binning and have that

benefit. However, I am still a little disappointed. I think Apple's so clever, right? Apple's so clever and so helpful. I think having a shooting mode that you could turn on that says, when I'm in bright light, give me a 48 megapixel heath image because it's gorgeous and detailed. And it's a feature I'm turning on, but also be smart enough to say, oh, well, the light's a little bit lower now. I'm going to go to the quad pixel binning in order to get a better shot. And Apple does this in other circumstances where

they change the lens in order to get the right one that's got the right performance in it um like when you're zooming through it will change the lens and when the light conditions change it will change the the lens or the camera it's using and i don't know if it still does this but i know for a while if you used the telephoto but there wasn't enough light it would just crop in the main lens yeah oh yeah i mean it does this and so so i asked the question again which is like what's the deal apple why have you made it so hard not to use the 48 megapixel sensor like and again i understand some of the reasoning but i disagree with the absolutism of you can only do it if you turn the setting on and shoot raw. Otherwise you don't,

or cause again, the, if the argument is, well, yeah, but those images are noisy and you really need the quad pixel binning. Well, I can shoot a two X. Those images are noisy and don't have quad pixel binning. I'm allowed to do that, but I'm not allowed to see the whole sensor unless I turn on raw. Like, I don't know. It is. So, so the bottom line is this is a great camera, especially if you care about photos and you're willing to take the extra steps to give yourself extra control. And the stuff that comes out in those raw files is amazing. It is really, really incredible levels of detail. I was taking pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge where I could see individual people up on the ridge above the bridge looking down on it. Whereas in the 12 megapixel image, you know, there's a bump.

But in the 48 megapixel, it's a human being. You can see their arms and their head and they're looking out. Like, it is remarkable. So it's a great camera, but if you're, if you're a casual photographer who just is, you know, shooting snapshots, it's, it is a better camera, but not as better as you might think. It is better. I definitely saw some cases where there was a lot of noise in the 48 and the quad pixel binning was like, there's no noise. It's a really impressive, but it's a way

more subtle sort of thing. And I, I just, I really feel like this is the case where Apple has erred too far on the side of, um, keeping it simple. And I don't want to say dumbing it down, but that's kind of what it is, which is they've taken their own sensor and really muted its impact by not giving people a pathway to... They basically said the 48 is really only for pros or if you want to zoom, otherwise forget it. And I think that's too bad. Yeah, I feel like just in general, there is maybe a little bit more headroom in this camera than Apple have made available in general, right?

Yeah, yeah. Because as we were talking about, and as a lot of reviewers have pointed out, people that are, I would say, much more knowledgeable than me and you about photography. For sure. It seems like really the 14 does most of the time about as good a job as the 13 Pro, right? The 14 Pro and the 13 Pro.

Yeah, I shot a bunch with the 13 Pro as well. And although the 14 Pro is very, very, very slightly better in certain conditions, they're basically the same, which is when I say dumbed down, I mean, it is a little bit of that. Apple has this incredibly amazing new piece of hardware, but they kind of want the default to be more or less what the old hardware was with a little bit of a variation. And that's an odd decision. And I just, I, I'm a little bit frustrated that they didn't try to push this more. And I think you're exactly right. It is a scenario where Apple seems to be going real slow and wants to be really conservative about how they roll out their new hardware. And I think they're concerned about people shooting giant images that they can't

do anything with and that they would have to process. And I get all of that,, I think they went too far. I think they have erred too far on the side of not giving more, you know, more regular users the access to that kind of power. However, they will let us do it, which I could imagine a world in which they didn't enable a 48 megapixel world sensor. Oh, yeah. Imagine if the only way you could use the 48 data was in the 2x mode with a little part of it you can see a world in which they would just not do it right yeah so what i'll say is like on the flip side it feels like a great time for apps that make shooting and dealing with raw photos easier and i think that is going to maybe become more and more popular. You know, it is worth saying

that maybe this is the first time I feel like we're putting a camera and pro in the name together on an iPhone makes sense because to get the best out of this lens, you have to do something that really, you kind of need to know what you're doing a little bit to get it to work.

Because like sometimes in the right daylight, you take a picture with the RAW, it just looks good. But if you're not in that, you get colors look weird and that kind of stuff. But let me respond to that, though, by saying, isn't that Apple's job? Isn't Apple's job, isn't the thing that Apple is so proud of? They take some amazing hardware technology like a 48 megapixel sensor and they use their amazing secret sauce and their image pipeline

and their photonic engine and all of that to put that power in the hands of the regular user. And I would argue then that if you say this is great

if you are unlocking all of the barriers and downloading a third-party app and that you're a pro. Shouldn't the idea be that Apple unlocks that power for everyone to use? And they didn't. They chose not to. They're like, nah, it's a Zoom or a pro feature you can turn on. And again, I'm not saying everybody should be shooting 48 megapixels. I'm not saying that at all. But like, there is a scenario here, again, to get back to sort of like my critics hat. There's a scenario here where Apple says, we are smart enough that if you put it in this mode, we know when to shoot with 48. And we know when to step it down to quad pixel

binning. And we'll make it look great under either circumstance for you regular person, so that you can take the photo off and go, oh, my God, look at all this extra detail because I want to crop it over here in the corner and print a poster of it or whatever. And they punted. I mean, they punted on that. They said, no, we're not going to make 48 megapixel images accessible to regular users. We're going to hide it. accessible to regular users. We're going to hide it. And I think that, look, we can all debate it because I think this is a completely subjective thing. I think that is a failure of Apple's own stated philosophy of taking high complicated technology and bringing it to regular people. They literally locked everybody out of this feature unless they know how to turn it on

instead of having it be magic. And that's curious to me. I find that very curious. This episode is brought to you by Rogamiba. Huzzah! Rogamiba Software is celebrating their 20th anniversary. Hear ye, hear ye. Huzzah, Rogamiba.

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So we're going to do a Dynamic Island edition of Ask Upgrade, and then we're going to do our regular Ask Upgrade today. Okay, so this is Dynamic Island Ask Upgrade that we're doing? Is it possible that the lasers for the dynamic island edition of ask upgrade would sound any different okay the lasers did they just kill a bird maybe at least shot at the bird yeah on the island i guess it's like on the island or something i don't even it could have been a monkey too i don't know monkey island jonathan asks apple have done a great job embracing

the camera cutouts of the dynamic island however they clearly have their eyes on the day that they can make an iphone a truly full screen device when day arrives, what do you imagine they would do with the island? Well, let's see how it goes. I think that's the first one. It's like, let's see how it goes. And if people like it and our people are used to it, my guess is that the dynamic island will pop down in a delightful animation when it's active

and disappear with a delightful animation when it's not active. And that you might be able to swipe it down or swipe it up and get it out of your way if you don't want to see it and probably turn it on or off. But that would be my guess is that it'll look just like it does now, except it'll be dismissible and it won't have an inactive state. That's my guess. I could imagine that, yeah, it just, right, as you say,

like when something's not in it, it just doesn't exist. Right. Assuming that people like it and use it, and Apple thinks it's an important part of iOS, which I would say it's more likely than not that is the case. But if it's a flop and nobody really likes it after a year or two, then they'll be like, okay, well, once we can get rid of it, we'll just, you know, like the touch bar, we'll just make it fade away. But otherwise, yeah,

I mean, that's the beauty of this thing is it's mostly software, right? It is hiding some cutouts, but it's mostly software. So that's my guess is they'll just make it something that appears when it's active, or you can dismiss it or, or make it reappear or whatever. it'll it'll be a dynamic status item element at the top of the screen because even in the world of a full screen iphone i still think they're going to need to have a status bar of some description right that oh for sure has stuff in it so the idea of having this design like this ui element that could appear and not you know and go away or whatever uh there's probably going to be some kind of um there's some kind of like element of that for a long time i will say that the fact that they have done all of the work that they have done

would suggest to me that apple think that it is quite a way away before they won't have any cameras or sensors visible on the device, right? It will be interesting if we end up with a different dynamic island at some point that's got like the beauty of the dynamic island, I would guess, is that they have the ability or will have the ability to change sort of what cutouts they're dancing around and where they are. So, yeah, we we may see that it's an even smaller cutout, but we won't notice the difference because it's still just the Dynamic Island. It's also possible that at some point

they might re-figure the whole thing as a status bar on the top because there is the name of the carrier and your Wi-Fi and your bars and your battery and all of that. That stuff's always up there, whereas Dynamic Island kind of appears during active activities. So they might, you know, reconceive some of that stuff if necessary. But

anyway, I think that's the most likely scenario is that the Dynamic Island will continue to stay around. And we talked about the idea that it might even appear on things like the iPad down the road. I think it would be the same thing, right? It would be a place that would appear when you have something in the background that is going on and that you can turn it off or dismiss it if you don't want to see it. Speaking of which, Jonathan asks. Okay. Not John. Jonathan. We already had John. No, I don't want to... Actually, I don't want to get to Jonathan's question just yet. Hold on. Oh, okay.

There's another question here. I'm getting lost on Dynamic Island. Oh, yeah, this was John. Jonathan asked the last question. John asks this question. I've got too many Johns around here. All right. John says,

you spoke last week about whether the iPad would get the Dynamic Island or not. What about the Mac? The Mac has a notch today. Could it have the island in the future? My gut feeling is that the Mac already has a thing for this and it's the menu bar. If the dynamic island is a big hit and Apple wants to kind of play that idea elsewhere, who knows?

It could certainly do it if it wanted to, but you know, with the notch, what Apple has done is basically made the notch part of the menu bar and the menu bar is a status area. So I'm not sure it's necessary on the Mac. I mean, could they do it if they really, really liked it and they wanted to extend it? Sure. Also the Mac is, is even more multitasking already. So it really is, you know, the need for it is less. It really is the stuff that's already in the menu bar. It's already up there. So, um, you know, other than forcing it in because of a brand extension kind of thing, I, I, it doesn't seem very necessary on the Mac. My entire dynamic Island on my Mac is like, my menu bar is my dynamic island

is what I'm trying to say. It's a, I don't know what that would be. It's like a haze layer of status or something. I don't know. It's up there at the very top. We're not looking for a dynamic menu. No. Alex asks, in time, could you imagine that notifications would be integrated into dynamic island well so this is something that we we sort of touched on earlier with the question of like does it's like a new game should this be in the dynamic island and i you know i think that when a notification comes in having it having the dynamic island expand to show it and then have it go back away if you don't interact with it, I mean, I've got to think they mocked that up.

And there must be some reason. The question is, do they think it's a bad idea or did they just not have time to revamp the entire notification system on two phones? I think that's the question. Feels to me like as a notification comes in, what is that but a background status event, right? Like that it actually, I think maybe should display on the dynamic island, at least temporarily and then go away again.

I'm sure there's a counter argument to that, but that's my gut feeling is like, well, why not? Why do we have multiple layers? Like, why do I have a little notification blob shoot down below the dynamic island and then live there and then shoot back up when it's done, when it's doing kind of the same job as the dynamic island? I know it's not ongoing, but it is a background information bit that's coming in. So I think there's a solid argument for Apple putting notification pop-ups in the dynamic Island. I would like to see it. I just, I just like the animation. Like I like the Apple pay animation for it. I just think it looks really

nice. So I would, why if considering notifications come from that general area of the screen, why not have them pop up there? You know, and while I'm being critical of all of Apple stuff today, because that's part of my job, I like what you said earlier about like it feels like Apple thinks this is the thing. Like nothing tells you that Apple thinks that this is the thing more than the amount of effort that they put into all the animations, all the movements. The dynamic island is a dancing blob. It is this, it's got for a, for a, a black space, an empty, theoretically space. It actually has personality, a featureless empty blob that has personality, but it does.

And it's, it does its little thing where it expands and goes, oh, face ID. And like, oh, the lock is unlocked. And now, you know, all of those things that it's doing up there, that suggests that Apple is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're onto something here. And it is delightful. And then a notification comes in and it's like, here I am. There I go. And it's like, it feels old, right? It doesn't feel right. And again, I can see arguments that notifications aren't Dynamic island participants, but I think maybe they, I think that that's the right place for them. Like you've got, you've, you invented the replacement for notifications. So now notifications need to go in there.

Not, not like for notification center where you're viewing all of them, but like the, the, the ones that come in across the transom, right. And say, here's a news alert and it expands. It goes, oh, the news thing happened. And then if you, you either interact with it or you go or it goes goodbye it fades back away like that's that seems right to me aaron asks can you disable the always on display on the 14 pro via focus modes or shortcuts i.e disable when driving okay the answer to the the direct answer to what you are asking is no right you cannot use focus modes to turn off the always on display but right even though

some focus modes do it yeah this feels like by the way this feels like a feature that will be updated sometime in ios 16 right like this feels like one of the way, this feels like a feature that will be updated sometime in iOS 16, right? Like this feels like one of those things they just left on the table. It's like, we'll get to it. Like we got other stuff going on. Have you seen the dynamic island? We're working on it. This feels like it's just like easy to add this later.

So I hope they will. But there is a thing that I found on 9to5Mac today where there's like a weird workaround that you can do so there is a setting in the options of a focus mode which is currently called dim lock screen when you're in a certain focus and on other devices it kind of just does something akin to what the sleep mode looks like where it kind of it dims the lock screen a little bit. But when you do this on an always-on, so you've got the 14 Pro, when you enable this option, it turns off everything other than time and widgets

when you're in that focus mode and you've enabled that as a thing so you could create a lock screen that had no widgets on it and tie it to that focus mode then when you turned on this focus mode it would basically make your lock screen just have the time on it this is a real workaround yeah but this is a way to do it so you'd have you would have to have like this is not a solution to get what people want in my opinion of like i just wanted to do have this i don't want the image you could do that but then you're living in focus a focus mode all the time Maybe that's good for you. Maybe that's what you want, right? This is a workaround to do it. This is not the option that people are looking for. But this is a thing you can do

if you have a specific reason. So for example, like Arrow mentions, like to disable it while driving. So yes, you could set up a driving lock screen that didn't have any widgets on it and then you could turn that one on by you know setting up that focus mode enabling that setting and then when you drive your iphone will just show the time which probably isn't that distracting to you that's a way to do it but it's not the thing you're looking for they should add this as a thing in focus modes just straight up turn it off

like you can in sleep this feels like a very simple i know it might not be but it seems like the kind of thing like i said that's a 16.1 or 16.2 feature where that they just slide in there which is shortcut support and focus mode mode support and just like a little more control over the always on display oh it should you know it should be one of the focus photos yeah the people working on those features might not even have known about the always on display for a while so so i i feel like they're they're going to use their own products inside apple with the always on display and be like oh yeah we should do that too and then we'll see it. This doesn't feel like something that's like a policy decision. It feels like it's just expediency.

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Our thanks to New Relic for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. And I have some regular hashtag AskUpgrade questions. No birds were harmed in the firing of those lasers. Oh, a bird flew by, but it's. Oh. They're fine.

The bird flew by, but it's no problem. It's fine. Millennial Falcon asks, I promise this one, this is baseball related, Friday Night Baseball on Apple TV Plus

broadcast the Yankees game this week, which had the potential as we can for a historic Aaron Judge home run. This is a record, right? I saw about this.

I saw this going around. Yeah, it's the American League record and the Yankees team record for home runs is 61. Roger Maris and Judge, as we record this, is on 60. Okay. This question asks us to say, there was a lot of discourse about Apple letting the Yankees cable channel make a deal

to switch or simulcast the game because of this. How do you think the relationship of streaming services and traditional cable providers will change going forward, particularly for historic moments like these? Okay, just so yes,

there were a bunch of things. The New York Attorney General decided to make some political points by saying oh how dare they charge us for this which was funny because it's free um i think it shows yeah yeah i haven't thought of that anyone can just watch it yeah if you get an internet connection any device basically you can watch it, even a laptop, you know, whatever. So a lot of misinformation, misunderstanding about it. So, yeah, she she stepped in it. and there are people who don't understand streaming or just want it on their TV like always. And those tend to be very non-technical people, obviously.

This is part of the same conversation as the NFL finally having their first streaming-only game, which was Thursday nights on Amazon. That's streaming-only unless you're in the local market for the team. Showing you, by the way, that the NFL is smart and demands that every game that's in a local market is shown on showing you, by the way, that the NFL is smart and demands that every game that's in a local market is shown on broadcast TV in that market, uh, which the, the only the

NFL basically does. There are a few things here, like the whole purpose of Apple doing this, I think is to get people to fit, to go through this process, like the process of realizing you don't have Apple TV and how can use the web and then obviously Apple devices and other connected boxes and TVs and stuff. But the goal is to like get everybody to say, well, how do I get this? Just like Amazon's goal is how do I get, uh, the NFL on Thursday nights? And the answer is you've got to become a prime subscriber and get the hardware for it. And Amazon will sell you something because Amazon makes hardware for it. Right. So it's all part of the point. I get why people are mad because it's a different way of doing it.

But it is kind of the point now for something like the Aaron judge home run, my guess, and I don't know this for sure, but like, also, I wonder if the, uh Attorney General, like, has a friend at the Yes Network or something, because they're like, oh, well, you know, how dare they? Let's let the Yankees cable channel get it. Well, wait a second. First off, the Yankees cable channel, you have to pay for cable TV to get that. That's outrageous. You have to pay for that. I wonder, given that everybody's got like so many people have smartphones and computers on the internet these days, is it more accessible on a cable channel than it would be free on the internet? I'm not sure. It would just be different. And then what they're saying is we're used to watching Yankees games on the Yes Network. So why can't we watch this one? The answer is because Apple paid Major League Baseball a lot of money. That's the answer. If I were Apple and Major League Baseball, what I would probably do is have a wink, wink, nudge, nudge conversation

about maybe showing Aaron Judges at bats on, I would say MLB network, not on yes, but maybe it's the yes network. Cause that's going to be limited to the Yankees territory. That's their cable network. One of those, um, just as a way to give cover for,

for this whole thing of being like, well, well, his at bats will be on the yes network. If you want to see history, we'll let you, we'll let you see those. But everybody else is going to have to get it through Apple TV. So, I mean, my feeling is that I get that this is painful, but this is where the money is and sports leagues want money. Sports leagues get money. They make the team ownership more valuable, which the owners like.

They give the teams money to pay the players, which the players like. It's a money-making enterprise. And right now, Apple and Amazon and the like are able to pay more money for this stuff because they have an external motivation, which is to increase their ecosystem by getting more people who are engaging with their platform, whatever it is. And, you know, the truth is Amazon got 13 million people to watch live their first Thursday night football broadcast. And they had the, they said the most prime signups in a three hour period of all time on Thursday during the game. And just before the game, that's why they're doing this. And that's why Apple's doing this. Cause once you've got Apple TV, uh, watching that for free, they can give you some

other stuff for free. They're going to do some MLS games for free starting next year. And now you hear about Ted Lasso or whatever. And you're like, Oh yeah, I did that Apple TV. I know how to get that. And you're sliding into the ecosystem. That's why they do it. So my feeling is that while I'm sympathetic always to local fans who are so used to watching their games on their local cable channels, and especially the ones who are uncomfortable with the idea of doing streaming, my answer is not, yes, we should give it to them the way they're accustomed because they don't want to change. My answer is the world is changing. You got to change. That's it. Bottom line, the world is changing. And if you want to be a sports fan in the 2020s, guess what?

Get used to streaming or get used to disappointment. or get used to disappointment. Yeah, I kind of like, personally, I have no sympathy to this idea that, oh, a historic thing should happen in the place where it's always happened. No, I'm sorry. That's not how this works. Like, what, we all have to just accept that,

like, this old cable channel must get every, like, no, this isn't, isn't right like if it has to be that way then these rights should never be allowed to be disputed like to be like sold to anybody else well they can be so because they can be you just have to move to wherever it is like this is i know it sucks but like sports are expensive and like this is just what it's like these days but hey this one was free so you know yeah yeah that blunts the argument even more right that it's totally free you just have to change and it's like i i have some sympathy i i do because it's like you're asking people to change their habits i get it but there there are limits to my sympathy, right? And at this point, if you're a baseball fan, or especially if you're an MLS fan, by the way, but you have to get with the times.

This is just how it is. And the money is why they do it. And it's not Apple's fault. Major League Baseball took the money and then distributed it to all the teams because they liked the money for those games. And that's just where we are. Now, I have criticisms of the way some companies have handled their sports rights in the streaming era. The biggest one here in America is that if you're a fan of the English Premier League, uh has the rights and while most of the games are on their peacock streaming service they hold a couple of games and put them on cable tv which means if you're a cord cutter

you can see all the premier league games except the two best ones and for that you have to buy cable which costs a fortune but you know what nbc is owned by the cable company that's why they do it so that's just i i don't love i don't love that um but that's where we are and and that's just the the facts and um if you want to get mad at somebody i guess get mad at major league baseball and the owners of your teams because they're the ones who prioritize money over everything else they're they're why umpires have cryptocurrency logos on their jerseys that's why there'll be ads on baseball jerseys next year because of the money um they the the guy who runs major league baseball i gotta say it's i didn't know that is hilarious to me that the referees got ads before the teams

yeah oh yeah yeah last year um and the guy who runs major league baseball uh rob man, he is a lawyer who was one of their chief negotiators in fighting against the union. And his charter from his owners is very simple, which is, if there's any deal you can make that gives us more money, say yes. And so they've got official gambling partners, official gambling partners now. And like, I'm not a fan of the commissioner. I think Major League Baseball is particularly craven. I actually think that making streaming deals is very low on the list of deals that they've made just for the money. But it's it's on the list. So anyway, that's that's baseball talk and generally sports and streaming sports is valuable

and it's valuable to streamers. And so in this decade, if you're a fan of sports, you and it's valuable to streamers and so in this decade if you're a fan of sports you're gonna have to deal you're gonna have to navigate all of the different streaming deals that are happening because that's where the money is and uh you know what those the rich people who own teams didn't get rich by not turning down well it didn't get rich by turning down somebody handing them a big check it's like that's part of the rich person deal i think is like hey here's a deal where the world's most valuable company writes them a big check it's like that's part of the rich person deal i think is like hey here's a deal where the world's most valuable company writes you a big check for a couple of

your games every week it's like yeah take the money take the money rob greg asks with ios 16 being released now is it close enough to release for to upgrade to ventura on my everyday mac like how is ventura right now uh i think it's okay there's still some quirks i have had some um now that audio hijack from rogamiba works on it there's still a little few quirks here and there it's still in beta i i don't know i mean you've waited this long part of my argument might be you've waited this long you could wait a little bit longer for them to iron out some of the bugs but i've also been using it for months now and it doesn't feel um particularly um unstable so if you wanted to do it you'll probably be fine check to see what's compatible etc etc uh the usual caveats apply um because a lot of your favorite developers

are not focused on shipping that mac update until day one of Ventura. So they may not be there in the beta. And if there are apps you care about, you should ask them, you know, ask them if they're compatible, ask if there's a test flight that you could get on to use the beta that is compatible. But in terms of day-to-day kind of use, I've had no issues really with Ventura for months. Yeah, I feel like macOS is like, for developer support, for app support, a little bit more precarious than iOS. Just because you could be using many more apps

that just don't work anymore because of some security change or some change of some kind. Like it just feels like because software's been around for way longer on the mac like maybe you're relying on something uh that needs a bit needs some updating some tweaking i always wait like mac os i know why you do it you write a review but like for me i never put mac os betas on my machines and totally get it i'm going to install ventura on day one on my on my uh macbook

air like because i'm really excited about stage manager i'm like can't wait i know it makes i know it's like not a thing you're used to hearing these days but like i cannot wait for stage manager on on the mac i think it's going to be really great for the way i do my work but i'm gonna hold off like maybe a few extra days maybe a week or two before i put it on my uh production like recording and editing uh computer because i just want to make sure everything is 100 before i do that it's also a big hassle and it's the machine that i really don't want anything go wrong on it's why like you's why I would usually wait a whole release before upgrading because it was fine.

But if I do actually come to really enjoy Sage Manager on the Mac, I will want it on this machine a lot too, as well as just my kind of daily work machine as well. But yeah, I agree with Jason. If you've gotten to the end of September, just keep waiting. Just wait. Like, just wait.

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I would also like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode. That is New Relic, Rogamiba, ZocDoc, and DoorDash. But of course, thank you for listening. If you want to find Jason's work online, including his iPhone 14 review, which you should go read, go to sixcolors.com. Jason is at jsnell, J-S-n-e-l-l on Twitter I am iMike, I-m-y-k-e once again

please go and check out our fundraising campaign for St. Jude, we have just a few more days to go, go to stjude.org slash relay and also you can catch our closing ceremonies on September 30th we're going to be streaming that on my Twitch channel twitch.tv slash Mike Hurley.

I'll go to mike.live for that. And we hope to see you there as you hang out with us and have some fun. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley. Bye. Bye.