Upgrade - 429: Freedom Doors

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

This week we praise trackpad gestures, condemn Google's Matter strategy, ponder whether looks matter when it comes to VR headsets, and think big thoughts about the AirPods Pro 2. Then it's time for some final prognosticating about what products Apple might be introducing in the next few weeks.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 429 today's show is brought to you by text expander clean my mac x and doppler my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snell hi jason snell hi mike hurley how are? I'm doing okay. How are you? I'm pretty good. I have a hashtag Snell Talk question for you. Oh, good. Good. Excellent. Comes from Ian who wants to know, Jason, do you have a favorite smell?

Hmm. Interesting. Send in your Snell Talk questions, everybody. This is Snell Talk. We're running low. Right? I know. It's Snell talk. It is. That's what it is now. Were you called Jason Smell in school? Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's very much that, oh, I haven't heard that one before. Yeah. I was going to make a joke here and say, well, sure, it's Lauren, but really don't make me pick between my kids. And oh, you said smell. I see.

Oh, that's good. It's totally different. But the answer, I thought about this before the show a little bit trying to ponder and um i'm gonna say orange blossoms if you've ever been in a place where there are orange groves and there used to be lots of these in southern california um but there are other places where orange groves there's actually, the last time I smelled this was in Phoenix, where there are a bunch of orange trees, sort of near where my mother lives and very close to where my sister used to live. The orange groves, when the orange trees are in bloom, it is amazing. It doesn't smell like you're in an orange juice. That's not what, like a giant vat of orange juice that's not

what it smells like it's this very delicate beautiful scent uh floral obviously of the orange trees so that's my favorite it's an orange tree orange blossoms that was much more of a sweet answer than i was expecting honestly i didn't know what i was going to get from you what new car smell that apple candle that's supposed to smell like an apple box? What else did I consider as a joke answer? I don't know. I didn't necessarily think it was going to be technology related. I thought about Petrichor.

The smell of after a rain when there hasn't been rain for a while. You get that smell of a fresh rain on concrete. I did not know that had a name it does petrichor it's it's uh i only know about it because it was in a doctor who episode uh as a random word that they had to figure out what it meant the smell of earth after rain but it is petrichor p-e-t-r-i-c-h-o-r pleasant smell that frequently accompanies the first rain after a long period of warm dry weather right and Right. And it is a smell. I mean, you know that smell. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know that smell. That is a great smell. I do love that smell.

I have a question for you. Do you like the smell of gasoline? No. Oh, I do. I'm one of those people. I do not. I like the smell. I like the smell of gasoline. I know it's a bad smell, but I like it. That's why I buy electric cars now. No more gasoline. Thank you very much. I love the smell of electricity in me. It's great. Oh, yeah. Give me those electrons, man. Good smell of electrons in the morning.

Electron smell. That'll wake you up. That'll wake you up. That's right. You can just get a hot cup of electrons and start your day. If you would like to send in a question for us to open a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk or use question mark Snell Talk in the Real AFM members Discord.

As you can tell, it can be about basically anything. And if it piques my interest enough, then I'll ask Jason. It actually shouldn't be about technology because really if it's about technology it should be an ask upgrade question. Oh, I 100% police that. So when people ask Snell Talk questions

that should be asked upgrade questions they just go into my ask upgrade section rather than rather than it's not talking then you worry i'm on top of that i'm on top thank you we have some follow-up you were very upset about uh your nest thermostat i mean very upset is probably pushing it but it was that so we had a nice conversation last week about matter. You taught me lots of things about how matter works and that there is matter and antimatter and starship engines and war cores and all that kind of stuff. But one of the things that you mentioned is that Google is on board and the Nest supports this. And I thought, well, I have, I think, a second generation Nest, so maybe I need to get a third generation Nest thermostat. And I went and I looked it up and I

found, ultimately, I found a very good interview with the head of smart home stuff, basically, at Google on The Verge, where they asked about the Nest thermostat and they said, well, the Nest thermostat supports Matter, but we haven't decided whether the Nest Learning thermostat, which is the nice one that I have, will support it or not. It has a thread radio in it, they said, but it's more complicated than that. And, you know, I was a little irate because basically, as I, okay, basically the Nest thermostat, which I have had a chance to use in a rental over the summer, feels like a cheap knockoff of a Nest thermostat. The interface is totally different. It's got like this weird touch sensitive strip on the side and a button that you press on

the side. And the whole purpose of that round Nest thing was that it was a thing you could turn and you could push. And it was like a very tactile kind of thing. That isn't in the Nest thermostat. It's only in the more expensive Nest learning thermostat. Anyway, when asked, and this is so typically Google, when asked, well, will your high-end thermostat that people have put in their homes support this brand new matter standard that you're behind? Their answer was, meh. It wasn't no, it wasn't yes. It was meh it wasn't no it wasn't yes it was meh yeah so frustrating i still like this

right like so when you posted it i was like i want i just went and did some more research as well and like just so let me just go through google's pages right yeah like that actual store pages and it is so unclear like basically they have committed that the standard nest thermostat is the plastic be matter support it will get matter support but the nest learning thermostat which is not a thing that i knew existed like as a name until right well they added it because they made this cheap one so they added that in because see it's very clever they removed all the learning features and stuff which i have turned off anyway. But they removed the learning features when they cheaped out. And they didn't want to call that low-end model the Nest Cheap Plastic Thermostat.

So what they did is they, like, let's accentuate the positive. The features we took out of the cheap one, like learning, are in the expensive one. So we'll add that name. So the Nest Thermostat is now the Nest Learning Thermostat because they make the cheap plastic crappy one. Yep. And still you can buy this. So you can buy today the $249 Nest Learning thermostat. And as it stands right now,

there is no expectation that it will support matter. Right. It may. And it may need a thread bridge or something like that, which is something we spoke about. Well, no, it has a thread radio in it. I think it's a software thing. I think they gonna have to it's like can they fit in whatever the little processor is inside there and how much memory it has we were talking i was talking about

how thread won't support matter unless there's a bridge in the middle they may yeah they may support it that way i don't know but they haven't said one way or another i don't know but but i think it's really telling that they've got this premium product. And when asked directly by a member of the media, what about it? Their response was not yes or no, but really like, we don't know. And it remains so, as far as I can tell, which is very frustrating. So I know a lot of people who use Apple products use Ecobee thermostats. Ecobee thermostats are very good.

I don't like how they look. Turns out, though, while I was looking around digging into this it turns out that ecobee makes a new ecobee that is a high-end model and it's got like the metal housing and stuff and it's bigger it's almost like an apple watch ultra for an ecobee thermostat so it's got a bigger screen and it's got metal around it, like stainless steel around it. So it looks more like a Nest, actually. And honestly, if I decide to give up on Nest, that's what I'll buy.

And it costs about what the Nest Learning Thermostat costs, by the way. The problem I have with Ecobee is mostly that I don't like Ecobee's interface because it's a round rect. That's the shape of it. And it's a touchscreen. And it's essentially like a little app

that's stuck to your wall. And the Nest, you know, if I want it to be hotter, I put my hands on the outside of the ring and I turn it and the number goes up. And if I want it to be cooler, I turn it and the number goes down. And if I want to interact with it,

I press it in, press literally the thermostat in, and it bumps in and it gives me a menu and then I go around. I love that interface. And I like how it looks on my wall. And I'd like to keep it rather than have to have, again, like a little mini iPad or iPhone app that lives on my wall that I have to go do, do, do, do, do, do, do and touch and swipe and all that. I don't want to do that. This smart thermostat supports Spotify.

You can play your music from the thermostat. I would say that might be too much. Ecobee also supports, it's got support for multiple voice assistants. That's fine. The voice assistant thing, I actually think is quite clever, right? It's just another, right.

Well, it ends up being another microphone that's listening. I don't know if I need it to play my Spotify music though. You know what I mean? Right, on your thermostat? Yeah. Anyway, it's a perfectly nice product and I might end up buying it, and I'm glad that they made one that looks nicer and not as cheap as their other ones do. But I would really rather that Google actually support Matter with a Nest.

So for now, all my enthusiasm about Matter helping me get my thermostat on HomeKit properly, I am withdrawing it all and instead sort of just coming to terms with the fact that I'm probably going to have to bridge it for a while. And then ultimately it's unclear what I'll replace it with. Um, maybe it'll turn out that somebody builds an amazing nest to matter, uh, thing that runs on a server and I don't need to ever change it because you know, the thermostats don't go out of style. Like, it works fine other than what it's talking to. So we'll see. But anyway, I just was amazed by Google. I mean, I don't love that Google made the cheap crappy Nest and called it a Nest thermostat. But I get it.

They wanted a cheaper, more accessible model. And while it is, having used it now, I realize how much of a downgrade it is from the good one seriously when you use a product and you think oh this is the cut rate uh knockoff non-brand product that's trying to ape a nest to trick people and then you discover no it's literally the nest low-end product like that's a bad sign when you think that this is some sort of chintzy ripoff and it's actually the low-end product. That's a bad sign when you think that this is some sort of chintzy ripoff, and it's actually the low-end product. But also just very disappointed in Google for having this high-end product that they continue to sell and yet are super shifty about whether it will ever talk to the smart home standard that Google is fully, quote unquote, fully behind. So, okay. I just wanted to mention to try and alleviate the follow-up.

I think we both know that the Starling Home Hub as a product exists. Yes, people mail that in and that's fine. I have a Mac mini running all the time. So I don't need another piece, another little tiny computer running as a hub because I have a Mac mini and Homebridge. If you don't, there is a company that has essentially, and the Starling Home Hub is what it is, productized Homebridge essentially or Home Controller or something like that.

And like they've got a board in there and they've got the software in there. And it's essentially a piece of hardware that acts like one of these software bridges. But if you've got a Mac mini server or something like that like i do you can just run homebridge and do it that way uh johnny ive is going to be an executive producer on an upcoming apple tv plus animated movie it's coming this christmas it's an adaptation of a book called the boy the mole the fox and the horse uh they're a large name like selection of names attached to this movie from who's making it to who's producing it to who's executive producing it. I just thought it was just a funny little thing to note that Johnny is going to be an executive producer on an Apple TV Plus movie.

Yeah, it's a little weird. I wonder what the story is there. Shades of Scott Forstall. 9to5Mac thinks it's because J.J. Abrams and Woody Arlson are involved in this movie, and they are both personal friends of Johnny. Ah, so they got Johnny involved in some way. I have a, since you mentioned 9to5Mac, I just have a little note for friend of the show, Zach Hall. Okay. Very nice fellow.

This story that we're linking to in our show notes. Oh, yes. Is one of the more confusing stories i've seen on nine to five mac i don't think it is but me and steven had this conversation you go because what okay so what it is i think what's happening here is that they have a roundup column that they do where they dump a whole bunch of small news items in instead of running them as individual items because this story story is two stories. This page is, Johnny Ives, the executive producer of a thing,

and also Ted Lasso has a deal with Bumble to bring their banter thing from Ted Lasso onto Bumble. So why is this not two stories? Why is the story that with Johnny Ives as the lead have a big Ted Lasso banter thing at the top? Why is the headline starting with banter and following with Johnny Ives when the story sequence is Johnny Ive as the lead, have a big Ted Lasso banter thing at the top. Why is the headline starting with banter and following with Johnny Ive when the story sequence is Johnny Ive and then banter?

Well, okay. So I think, yes, I think they have a roundup of like TV Plus content. I think these two things go together because you get to be able to write the headline, dating app banter from Ted Lasso becomes real. Johnny Ive adds Apple TV Plus product, produces a resume

because that headline i clicked it immediately because i'm like okay i thought those two things were related they're not i think it's interesting from a web publishing standpoint that these could have been two separate articles with two separate clicks and they're not and that's fun that goes against the way that the modern web works where you'll discover – and again, I'm not trying to pick a 9-to-5 Mac because everybody does this. But 9-to-5 Mac will have maybe they discover three interesting things about three new Apple products that are rumored. And then what you end up doing is you're writing three stories about them. You're like, oh, new Apple Watch report says this. And it's like, oh, a new iPad report says this. And oh, new iPhone report says this. It's the same report. You could

have rolled it together, but it's like, well, no, we want more stories and more clicks and all of that. I just think it's funny that in this case, they got put together. But I think you're right. I think that this is a process thing where this is the, we're writing about Apple TV and here's two stories that are sort of related to Apple TV. we'll roll them together i just but what you're saying is if i can if i can stick banter ted lasso and johnny ive in one headline and dating in one headline boy do that because that's catnip for clicks because i had multiple people send me this who didn't read the article and the url is apple tv johnny ive dating app. Exactly. So I had multiple people send me this article

and they were like, oh, because they didn't read it. Johnny Ive is going to be producing a dating app. It's amazing. That Johnny Ive designed a dating app and is now an executive producer of Ted Lasso. I think this is what people took from it. If that's the plan, Zach Hall, then I applaud you and 9to5Mac.

What a move that is is i just was puzzled by it because i'm like well wait a second what why what is this other story that's a that's pasted at the end of the story about this christmas thing that okay all right you got some follow-out for us i have a little follow i mean there was a little follow-out item in the document and i thought that's interesting uh what's it going to be and then i thought oh i have some follow-up that i was the headings always there in our document just i know well it but it pinged a thing in my head it was like oh i actually do have follow-out okay um last last week on the accidental tech podcast episode 504 they talked a lot about mac window management casey got angry that's fine was that yeah i think that was last week casey got angry. That's fine. Was that? Yeah, I think that was last week. Casey got angry because John and Marco kept adding all the footnotes to the things when

Casey wanted to keep it simple. It's fine. I think they actually did a pretty good job of exposing the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of I'm a new Mac user. What's the right way to manage my windows? And the answer is there is no right way. There's about a million different ways to manage your windows. Find one that works for you.

The reason that this is follow out, and I've already expressed this to Casey privately, by the way, and he's heard from a lot of people, but I just wanted to be on the record here, is I think it's interesting because they spent the whole time talking about keyboards and hot corners and clicking with a mouse. And what they missed is one of the, I i think most fundamental ways that a modern mac interface works and the reason it's fundamental is twofold one most macs sold are laptops and two apple also also sells a very nice desktop mac pointing device called the magic trackpad there it is and they do the same thing which is gestures yep and so when they're talking about oh here's what you do you hold down f11 and then you drag a thing and i'm like f11 what what why and they're like and they're like oh this is

this great you could get a hot key that shows the desktop and i think or you can do and i had to think about what the gesture is but it's basically on a trackpad you put all your fingers together and you put it on the trackpad and then you flick you just open them up and you're like flick and what does it do it takes every window on your screen and it flicks it out yeah it flicks it away to the sides of the screen so you can see the desktop it is a i would, almost whimsical kind of feature given how it's paired with the gesture. And so you just go bloop and there's your desktop and you bring it back. And then, of course, I also use

when I have lost a window, this especially happens with installers. You have that thing where it's like, oh, now I have installed an update and now I need to relaunch and it goes behind a window, but it's not like a window window. It's like kind of a half of a window. And you can't find it.

Sometimes it's like now no longer related to the app. So you click the icon, but it doesn't bring up the relaunch thing or whatever. So if you take three or more, I believe it is three or four fingers or five or six or seven. Put all your fingers on there. I don't care. And you put it on the trackpad and you swipe up it does the show me all windows and it sort of tiles them and shrinks them and then you can click on the one you want you want to bring forward and it brings it forward and i use that all the time not to mention you know the standard sort of two finger

scrolling and uh two finger clicking for a an alternate click oh i'm constantly doing the trackpad gestures like i'm like swiping up to get like to get to expose i'm swiping left and right with the four fingers to go my spaces yeah sure i'm all over it yeah so um so i mean they know already like casey was like yeah yeah we heard but i just wanted to mention here because i thought it was a really fun conversation even though casey just got increasingly angry because i think it made the point that those are three different users and while they seem to not care so much about trackpad gestures there are three different users with three different completely different perspectives on how to do window management and this is this is going to become more relevant when we talk about

um stage manager on mac os ventura when it ships right because that's yet another way to do this plus there are third parties but like even just apple has all of these different ways and the answer is there's no one true way it actually is that apple's trying to give users a whole lot of choice in order to find a good way for them. And I encourage that. Yes, because the truth is, everybody's different. Everybody has a different preference. If they said, no, the one true way is full screen mode, I'd be like, I'm not updating because I'm never using full screen mode, right?

Or spaces. They're like, spaces are mandatory now. I'm like, no. I mean, that would be stupid, but like, no, I don't want to use spaces. I don't like it. But other people swear by it and that's fine, right? Like everybody's different. I do think that Apple probably should do another, after they ship Stage Manager, they should

probably do another like high level, what are we really trying to get out here? And I think, honestly, I do think maybe they should consider some sort of tiling as another thing on top of it. But the third parties have it pretty well covered. So anyway, trackpad gestures are great. And they're available on most Macs because most Macs are laptops with a trackpad. And if you're somebody who is at a desktop and doesn't use a trackpad on your desktop, even though you use a laptop a lot, I really encourage you to look at the Magic Trackpad because the beauty of it is all of the muscle memory that you build up on your laptop

is then there on your desktop. And that's why I switched and I love it. I have both a mouse and a trackpad. I know a lot of people who do that, right? And you can do the gestures on the trackpad and you can do some other stuff on the mouse and that works great too. So, yeah.

Anyway, it was a fun conversation and it triggered in me all of those thoughts of like, yeah, Apple really is just sort of like has a menu of options for you to choose from in terms of how you want to manage your windows but uh they those guys i guess because they maybe don't use those gestures or are at a desk and aren't using a magic trackpad but they just i can't i couldn't believe as i went through the whole conversation they didn't mention it so there i mentioned it trackpad gestures are the like secret sauce and they shouldn't be a secret because you don't there are lots of things for which a hot corner or holding down f11 is probably not the best way to get at that feature. But again, if you want to, if you like it, do it that way. But I think that gestures are more intuitive. But this is why the follow-out segment exists.

Because why send in follow-up for a podcast when you can just provide it on your own podcast? On your own podcast and then the podcast each other. Yeah. And forming one giant massive podcast. Anyway, that's my feedback. And maybe they listen, maybe they don't. But, you know, that's how it works. Yep.

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Saddle up. Okay. Head on down to the ARVR town. There's a new report from the information with a couple of interesting little details. They seem to be very on it, the information, when it comes to the headset. I feel like more than most places,

this tends to be where we get a lot of information. We'll find out, no pun intended, we'll find out how much of it's actually correct at some point in the future. But Iris ID is the thing that would be coming to the AR VR headset, which would be a biometric sensor authentication system for the headset that would allow you to make purchases,

switch users automatically, that kind of thing. So you would put your headset on, it would know who was wearing the headset and then use their profile, all that kind of thing. So you would put your headset on, it would know who was wearing the headset and then use their profile, all that kind of stuff. This sensor is the same technology that allows them to do foveated rendering, which is a thing where it looks where your eyes are looking and just renders in that exact location that's needed

rather than needing to render an entire scene in full resolution. This is a thing that more and more headsets are doing uh the playstation psvr2 is going to be using foveated rendering it allows you to have less processing needed at any one time so where you're looking is where it's rendering which is very clever so that they have adopted it for that but it can also do this iris scanning basically and they're going to use that instead of face ID or touch ID for the headset. Apparently. Right.

So you put on the headset and it knows who it is because they recognize your eyes. It's like a captain Kirk and Star Trek too. They like pop, like look, we, we thought we had jumped past that to face ID, but it turns out,

no, I'm not on a headset. It's actually the best way to do it. Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting. The foveated rendering stuff. I also amazed by right because like imagine the level of of uh detail and speed and power you have to have yes recognize where the eye is facing and dynamically change

what is well it's not even dynamically change what is in focus based on where the eye is facing it really is the key is the moment that your eye, and by the way, eyes move real fast, flick from left to right, that the display updates with the higher resolution over there immediately. So you don't have this thing where every time your eyes flick slightly in one direction or other,

everything gets a little hazy for a moment. So that's, I mean, vision is weird and there are lots of tricks you can play on human vision, but still like when I hear the foveated rendering stuff described, I am like, I don't disbelieve. I'm just kind of amazed that we have the ability to do that because it's very clever, right?

The idea that your peripheral vision doesn't need to be so clear because it's your peripheral vision, but to make that actually work is amazing. So there's the MetaQuest Pro is a product that exists now, right? So we're already starting to get... Well, sort of. Well, I mean, it goes on sale next week.

Okay. So it's very much more real than Apple's headset, we can say, right? Very much, yes. And it goes on sale on the 25th so maybe not next week but the 25th you can pre-order it now and 9to5Mac, I wanted to read this because I thought it was interesting the information report says Apple's headset will look

quite different to the just announced MetaQuest Pro in regards to physical design the Quest Pro looks like a plastic visor but the Apple headset will supposedly use mesh fabric, aluminum, and glass, making for a more premium appearance. And I thought that was interesting, but I do want to say,

Apple's headset is probably going to cost twice as much as the Quest Pro, so you would hope so. Yeah. I am also amused by the more premium appearance because I have to ask the question, what is the more premium appearance for? Yes.

Because when you're wearing it, you don't know what it looks like. So it's, does it look better? I mean, premium materials can be nice because they can feel better. I totally get that. But how much of this is really like, well, we know it's embarrassing to put on a VR headset, but not our VR headset. to put on a VR headset, but not our VR headset. It's less embarrassing because it's made of premium materials and looks nicer on the outside for when people are looking at you looking dumb wearing a headset.

Don't forget there was the rumor of the screen that's on the front which shows your eyes or some kind of impression, facial impression of you. That could be sensors. Before, I wasn't sure about like how that would work right that like are they gonna have like a camera and it actually shows your realize like maybe they're gonna do that but the meta quest pro has sensors in it to detect like your eyebrow movement and stuff like that like a facial expression and apparently from the

people that have tried it and tried out this like this works surprisingly well for the characters that you earn like in world and vr so maybe it's just something like that it's like a cartoon memoji like thing and it's using sensors to then represent your personality on the outside i still don't know if that's necessary but we'll see yeah yeah i mean it's very apple right and apple apple any piece hardware, Apple wants it to feel premium and look that way. And if it's going to cost what it's going to cost, then it probably should not look like a lump of plastic. But I just, you know, in the end, what matters with these things at this point is how they feel way more than how they look when you're wearing them because you're not wearing, you're not seeing yourself when you wear it. So it doesn't matter. It really does not matter because you're always going to look

a little bit ridiculous no matter what the thing is. Yes. So it kind of doesn't matter. You crystallized my thoughts perfectly. Yes, exactly. Well, we're heating up. This world is heating up.

Or you could be like James Thompson who just posted a thing in our chat room where somebody just put googly eyes on the front of an Oculus Quest 2. I'm assuming it was him that did that. I don't know. It doesn't really matter, does it? It's a good one. Just do that.

Maybe that is what they're going to do. That's cheaper. It's a lot cheaper. Not really premium materials. We used, for our googly eyes, we used quartz crystal and inside is a surgically uh surgical quality stainless steel disc with chamfered edges it's the apple googly eyes they're coming watch out you got some airpods pro 2 i did i i heard you this is follow out essentially away from connected last week

um where you talked about your airpods pro 2 and i want to talk about it with you here um so i mean i don't have a lot to say but i wanted to say that they sound great they really do and i used my airpods pro originals a lot um as somebody who didn't believe in apple's earbuds at all um the the noise canceling uh and the lightness of it may led me down the path um these are they sound they sound great the um the pass-through sounds good although i am again how do you prove that you're like oh yeah that sound was should have been louder and it wasn't it's very hard to prove that yeah i'm still not convinced about that myself like i'll be honest i need to go stand next to a jackhammer and see what happens we've

got to find something under construction i still yet to experience it especially because i know i experienced this happening before like a siren would go by like a police car or something and it would adjust the transparency so yeah i still just be faster and better yeah yeah uh but overall the the actual noise canceling experience is really good like i i don't they sound better i i think they do but i'm i'm not entirely convinced when people say oh yeah they sound better and i'm noticing more bass response and all that i'm not entirely convinced that isn't because they're coming from an old pair of airpods pro that have some earwax in them and stuff and like i'm not entirely i think that they these things wear out over time like i really do i think they just get less powerful it's not a clean

comparison if you've got an old worn out pair and then a brand new pair because of course they're gonna feel nicer because they're new and they're going to sound better. And anyway, but they do sound great. And the noise canceling is, uh, is definitely superior.

I'm very impressed by that. Um, it's, you know, I, and how much of that is the, the technology and how much of that is the, is the seal is a,

is a question for me because i think that there's i think there's a limit to what apple can do with noise canceling um because of the seal right because if you're letting in sound from the outside through the gap uh in your headphones um it's hard for apple to counteract that not that they don't try right they've got the little microphones on the inside that are trying to get the sound that's coming into your ear canal and cancel it, but there's only so much they can do. And so, you know, what I'm really saying is when I'm riding in the backyard and the kids next door are jumping up and down on the trampoline, I can still hear them, but they're pretty quiet and I don't have to, you know, but the, when the person is redoing

their roof, you know, five houses down and there's a big machine running out there. I can't, you know, I can't hear that, which is pretty great. So yeah, so I love them. And I know we did an upgrade ease about this a few years ago when the AirPods Pro came out, but like AirPods alone, but AirPods Pro especially, this is one of like, everybody talks about, oh, what's the next iPhone and Apple doesn't make great products anymore. And, you know, where's the next great, brilliant idea? And people poo-poo the Apple Watch,

which I like, but AirPods and AirPods Pro, like this is a great product and super influential, right? Because while there were some products that did sort of some of this beforehand, when Apple went down this path, every other technology company was like, they got it. That's it. Let's do that.

And I'm not saying that in a negative way because people are like, oh, they copied it. It's like, okay, whatever. I do think there comes a moment in technology like the moment when Samsung started selling a lot of very big screen phones where everybody else goes oh, that. That's the answer. Somebody found the answer. That's the answer. And AirPods Pro is

like that. It's like Apple did it and everybody else went, oh yeah, okay, let's do that. Because it's that good. I love them. It is one of the best products Apple has made. And this is just better of the same one. So thumbs up from me. This might not be an original take,

but it's a thought that I just had. Basically, AirPods, the whole AirPods line, it is the modern iPod for Apple. Yeah. Right? That they have a product that they put out that was successful. And then they made a bunch of them in different types, different like configurations and people love them.

They're everywhere. Obviously the, uh, the easy comparison is the white earbuds is the same, right? Like they were white earbuds then it's white earbuds now. And similarly it it proved that there was a market for this and then a bunch of other companies went and made products

that are similar or better in some ways worse than others depending on what you care about and of course it's music related i would yeah i yeah i was gonna say i think that i think that you're onto something there and that that the truth of it is, remember when they made that iPod Shuffle that didn't have any interface on it? And it's like, well, no, the headphones have the interface. Like, well, in a world where every device can be a Bluetooth, internet-connected, or preloaded with music audio player, you don't need an iPod anymore. No. But you still have ears, right? You still need the other part of it. So, so in many ways, the AirPods literally are all that's left of the iPod, which is the part you

stick in your ears because, you know, I, I walk around frequently with, you know, here at the house, I have like at least four devices that are, that I use every day that all can play right into the AirPods, right? And I get to choose. And when I go for a run and just bring my watch, I bring the AirPods and there they are. So from, you know, my, actually my Apple TV too, I've, I've done that when I've had, there was somebody working outside with a loud machine and I was trying to eat my lunch and watch TV and I put in my AirPod Pros and set it as the output from my Apple TV and used it that way. So, yeah, it's a really smart product. And I'm glad it exists. And the new one is better.

And I'm interested to see what they'll do in the future. We talked a while ago about Apple Watch and the challenge with the Apple Watch temperature sensor on the wrist and the medical issues with it. And like when you get a fever, it's more on the inside of your body and your chest and not so much your extremities, which can get cooler. And there's a lot of complication there. Apple is rumored to be investigating things like temperature and other health sensors in AirPods, which seems so weird, except the AirPods are in your ears. It's a better place for sensing things. And it's also a second data point, right, as well, which might continually assist. like, oh, your AirPods can talk to your Apple Watch, which goes together with the way that they introduced that September keynote, right?

Of like these three products are actually like it's one ecosystem. Yeah, interesting. That's a really good point. On top of that, I'll say, and this is a wild idea, but I'm going to throw it out there. This is one of those infinite timescale ideas. But I know we've talked a lot about how Apple's first AR product is the AirPods, right? Because they

do the transparency mode. So you're listening to reality, but something is overlaid over it, and Apple's technology is mediating it. You know, there's a scenario where Apple and other, and its competitors are creating these things that are increasingly small and increasingly uh smart and there's a point where apple might say just we talk about it for for glasses right but it's i feel like we're going to get there sooner with airpods where they say just leave them in and if they can come up with a benefit and we talked about like hearing aids and things like that. If you talk about spoken announcements and voice assistant and volume, I'm not saying people are going to want to wear AirPods all day,

nor will the battery last that long. But if you try to just sort of like extrapolate and expand it, if you can't feel them, they last all day and they provide you with a layer of information on top of being able to hear everything in your world crystal clear. At that point, you would just leave them in all day. So it's an interesting thing to think about that in many ways AirPods are so much further along that path than the rumored and not yet even introduced first generation AR thing from Apple. But they're already there with the airpods so sky's the limit i'm not sure i want airpods in my ears all day long i'm not saying

that but i'm saying i mean i have mine in for a long time even when i'm not listening to music like if i listen to something i just leave them in i don't even think about it like it's not even a conscious decision yeah well that's that's going down the path right yeah yeah so yeah give me and then if i've done it, give me a reason. Especially if they're smart enough to filter out the sounds you don't want to hear, but play through the sounds you do want to hear, which is sort of where they're going with that. but it is modulating what you hear. That's also very interesting for people and not just for people who need hearing aids, but for everybody. So I don't know.

It's fascinating. So anyway, those are my AirPods 2 thoughts, AirPods Pro 2 thoughts. Thank you for listening and for inspiring it by you talking about how much you like them. I have some real-time follow-up from Zach Hall of 9to5Mac. for inspiring it by you talking about how much you like them. I have some real-time follow-up. Okay.

From Zach Hall of 9to5Mac. My process starts with how can I make sure this is an upgrade topic in reference to the article about Johnny Ive and the dating app. Then there are these two TV Plus tidbits worthy of their own stories. I didn't think so for 9to5Mac's format. In retrospect, I would do two stories if only for the sake of my mentions. Sorry, Zach. So there you go.

Zach learned a valuable lesson. Now friend question mark of the show, Zach Hall. I think it's interesting. I mean, sorry, it's journalism inspired baseball, but I was just sort of fascinated by it that it was two things. And I thought it was a process thing right like it was like i've got two i've got two not particularly exciting tidbits about apple tv related stuff let me roll them together i get it so good poor zach because i think nine to five mac tweets out with the the writer's handle as well and so every reply to that tweet would have also gone to zach i guess

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we are recording on Monday the 17th. We are hurtling towards the end of October. We are. There were reports last week from Mark Gurman that iOS 16.1 is expected in the final fall week of October, which is next week. Next week. And Mark has also mentioned that previously in October, Apple has announced products during their earnings call week, which is also next week.

So there is a possibility that sometime between now and the end of next week, there could be an announcement of an event there could be products added to the store there could be press releases there could be press previews and briefings we don't know but we want to think about what they could be uh maybe kind of get that out there because i think at this point we're expecting we won't be drafting in October, right? I think probably not. I think that's the safe bet. I think there's a possibility that Apple would do something where they would say, let's say tomorrow, tune in next Tuesday for a special video presentation.

I still think that's a possibility. But it's just as likely that this is going to be more like those sort of what I call the third tier product launches, which is they just do briefings and a press release. And it's not a big event beyond that. And that depends on how big they feel it is. And so this seems too complicated to draft. And we may still draft. Like if they announce an event tomorrow, like we'll do a draft, right?

Like we will do one if there's going to be a video event but in case that there isn't we wanted to at least kind of get out there what we're thinking about uh in regards to what apple might be having for this month right so um where should we start ipads let's start with ipad okay so ipad os has still 16 has still not shipped right it's there they pushed it to 16.1 they took stage manager off the external displays they're doing bug fixes with external displays uh or with the internal display and they expanded the compatibility to older ipad pros So that's all laying out there. I assume that they're going to ship that, like Mark said, sometime next week.

And presumably there is some pressure to ship that because there's hardware that needs to ship with it, right? And so that would mean that presumably sometime this week or next, they're going to do a product announcement involving iPads that will ship next week, maybe, right after iPadOS presumably would ship earlier. I mean, that's their pattern, right? It's like the OS ships Tuesday or Wednesday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then Friday the products come out. That would make sense, right? Because they tend to have the OS available

before the hardware, so it's already in there, right? The support is already in there. And yeah, it follows all of the... I mean, I just genuinely... Being very close to Federico, right? I just kind of can't believe that 16.1 is coming out. Like, I just, I can't get my head around it. Like, maybe there's another shoe to drop, but like, iPadOS 16.1 is very complicated. And the main feature is very messy.

Yeah, it's messy. Although, you know, Federico's had some bad luck with it. I think that it's more usable in certain circumstances, but he's right. I mean, it's got lots of problems. I think what makes me think it doesn't matter

is that it's a mode that is off by default that you have to turn on. And I don't know what the current state of the little thing that says, hey, introducing stage manager, you could turn this on is,

but it would seem to me that would be a fairly easy switch to flip off yeah so that you don't ever tell anyone stage manager is there and they would have to stumble upon it it's like the two people with the keys and they have to each turn them at the same time you know yeah you can launch exactly and then you launch launch stage manager yeah so uh and you can turn it off if you don't like it. If it breaks, you just turn it off, right? So I think that you could, it's not great. Don't get me wrong.

It's not great to ship a feature that kind of doesn't work as planned and tell people, well, just turn it off. And we're working on it. But that may be where they are now. But 16.1 iOS has to come out soon because of live activities, right? Like you've got to get that out there because that is a big part of the iPhone experience. iCloud shared photos. iCloud shared photos too, right? I assume that that feature is going to ship.

I actually just in the latest beta, I noticed that all of my items that I had moved into a shared folder or shared library moved back into my library. Which I think they're preparing to ship it and so they hit a reset on everybody from the beta so they're like i don't think so thank you beta testers back in your libraries back go back so which is pretty funny but like i kind of get it right like they're like no no no now that the beta test is over we're going to push everything back and you can do it again which i did because for all we know right one of the reasons it may have gotten delayed was like they worked out that there was maybe some kind of bug or an issue and they just wanted to make sure they cleaned out anything before they like did the final like all right now we're ready to go but but so based on that i'm inclined to believe um that they are going to ship that and

they haven't said later this year with that i like i feel like this 16.1 update and ventura are all going to come out simultaneously and they're all going to have the shared library too so they do need to get it out there and leaving aside the hardware is probably calibrated as well right there if there are new macs they're probably meant to only run on Ventura. And if there are new iPads, they're probably only meant to run on 16.1 and later. And therefore, they need to ship the OSs because they've got hardware that is presumably holding for the shipment. So that's where we are. In terms of iPad devices, right? Like the rumors are iPad Pro Refresh and the base level iPad.

And the iPad Pro refresh might not be that exciting, right? It's like from M1 to M2. There was a report today that over the weekend, Ross Youngs, the display analyst, said that the 11-inch iPad Pro was not going to get the mini LED illumination and was going to keep its old screen. Oh, my God. Are you being serious? I am absolutely 100% serious. That is ridiculous. Sorry to have broken it here.

I should have put that in the show notes. Yeah. Wow. I didn't see this. I can't believe that. That seemed like a lock-in to me. It's been ages now. That wild that is really wild that they haven't worked that out or they're not going to do that i'm very surprised about that uh yeah well if that's if that's true um that's not great

because that was the one thing i think that a lot of people like you were holding their holding on to was like finally the smaller one is going to get that feature and that display. And that would be a reason to update. And so if not, I mean, first question that I have for you is, what's enabled in new iPad Pros other than like, okay, if they come out and it's literally the same displays as last time and it's an m2 what else is there there's rumors of charging differences and magnetic charging that was a rumor max some kind of magsafe like is there a federico last week i know i'm connected was talking about you know it's been a while since apple pencil 2 would there be an apple pencil 3 um i mean that's more of an accessory-related thing,

but we could leave that aside for a minute because there are accessory questions with the iPad. There always are. The iPad is as much an accessory platform as it is a computing device, right? The iPad is it and its accessories and how you choose to build them up. But can you think,

what do they say in terms of m an m2 ipad pro like what more is enabled with that i don't really think anything i think this is this is probably going to be as boring an update as the 2020 uh update right well and so that's the answer that's one reason why it's not an event is that it is a spec bump and they're just getting it on the latest processors and that's it. And maybe they add MagSafe, right, in some form. Right. Do you have a prediction about what that might look like? I mean, my initial thought is that it would be more like the Mac, right? mean my initial thought is that it would be more like the mac right but now there is a rumor that apple is potentially looking at adding a functionality like the uh new the pixel tablet where you can like mount it to a little stand and it becomes like a part of your like it's basically

like a home part of a screen yeah and if then it would make sense that the ipad would have a magnet in the back right so i think having it be magsafe would be great although it's pretty thin however there's the keyboard issue right and i started to think about like if you've got a magnetic charger thingy and it's on the side do you have to build your keyboard? Like if you want, if you want the keyboard to have power and have that port on the side still like that, that you can plug in for power, um, you would need like the, you still have to have the magnetic connection on the back and start, I started to think about it and I'm like, are they going to do that? Are they going to add a thing on the side and still have the smart connector on the back? Is that a thing they're

going to do? And it makes me more inclined to believe that what they're going to add a thing on the side and still have the smart connector on the back is that a thing they're going to do and it makes me more inclined to believe that what they're going to do is upgrade the smart connector to be magsafe compatible but still also be a smart connector which magsafe well which magsafe right iphone magafe, I'm assuming at that point. But it's weird, right? Because ergonomically iPhone MagSafe on an iPad is like, that's not great. And does that require them to redesign the Magic Keyboard? Well, I mean, this is the question of accessories. Will they actually just redesign the Magic Keyboard?

Right. Right? Will they do that? Maybe. And that's what sets M2 iPad Pro apart is really it uses the fancy new Magic Keyboard that has a function row and different whatever that allows it to be more speedy. And that would make it enough for an update, right? Because as Zach has pointed out in Discord, which is a great point,

it's like the iPad Pro hardware is great. There isn't really much that you realistically need to do to it to make an update. I think the 11-inch will just be an even more of a sad product, I think, if it doesn't get the new... I used to say the the 11 inch ipad

pro was like the best ipad you could buy and now that's now it's getting harder for me to say i really like the ipad air maybe is that now except for the depending on what they announced but except for the like price to storage is not good um on the on the ipad air like the base storage is really low but the 11inch is just so great, and it would be even better if they gave it the new cool screen too. I'm not saying that this will happen, but I have a little bit, hearing you talk about the 11-inch, I put a little chill in my heart,

because we've been saying for a while now that the iPad Air really infringes on a lot of the iPad Pro 11-inch space. Not completely. Like, it doesn't have ProMotion. There's things it doesn't have, but it's real close. And there's also that rumor floating out there, not probably for this event, but that there may be a larger ipad coming a 15 inch let's say ipad pro or ipad studio whatever you want to call it i wonder if where

apple is headed based on the current trajectory of the ipad is that the 11 inch ipad pro is more like a vestigial ipad pro yeah and that the end, they're the two big iPad Pros. And if you want something smaller, you get the iPad Air. Yep. Yep. I like that a lot. Yep. I mean, I don't know if you like it, because it means you have to choose between a 12.9

or an Air. Well, I mean, I like it. And not have that sweet Pro motion on the middle. I think it makes sense. I would prefer to see them push the iPad bigger than... iPad Pro, right? Well, and iPad Pro, right? What is left to push the iPad Pro as a platform, right?

You've got the iPad Air. Like we said, the iPad Pro already is pretty powerful, but what more is there to do? Well, one thing is to continue to push it up and make a bigger one and have a new keyboard case that does even more stuff and a bigger screen. Let me tell you, a stage manager would be much better on a 15 inch screen than on the 12.9 inch screen, let alone the 11 inch screen, right? The bigger screen, the better for stage manager. So if that's where they're going, then maybe the 11 inch iPad pro,

the answer is it's not long for this world because you should just get an iPad Air at that point. And the view of the iPad Pro is even further up, bigger and more expensive. I don't know. But I think for this one, I suspect what we're going to get is the 12.9 and the 11 as they are except with m2 and then some accessories right the a new maybe a new keyboard maybe a new pencil and charging some sort of charging story um but but yeah my gut feeling is that it's it's it's going to be essentially it's going to be iphone magsafe because of what i said before which is i i don't see Mac MagSafe working on the side. I'd love to be wrong.

Really, I would love to be wrong, but I don't see it. What about the Mac? Well, Ventura. Yep. Right? Mm-hmm. The current rumors seem pretty good,

and also pretty boring, which, again, points to why this might not even be an event a virtual event is okay macbook pro which which here's a funny thing pretty boring and yet for our audience and our community like because the macbook air is like the definitive mac but for our audience and community i think the macbook pro is the definitive mac like yes the really serious computery people and so it's not boring to have an m2 pro and max processor in uh macbook pros right like if they do that and it's the new processor types that are based on m2 like what is and we get a story about like what's in the M2 high-end processors that we haven't seen before.

For our audience, that's really, actually really exciting. Even if the M2 MacBook Pro hardware is not changed in any way, which I wouldn't expect it would be. I don't think so. I don't think that's going to happen. No reason. No, it's fantastic. They just got where they are they're they're doing good and that that's the thing that gives me pause about apple

not making a bigger deal of this is i mean they can do a press release and post a video that's just johnny shruji talking about how amazing it is but like wouldn't you want to get people's attention for that maybe it's not enough and maybe it's too too nerdy for everybody but for our audience that's huge that's like wait there's new high-end M.2 processors. Tell me more. And I have to imagine there will be. The rumors certainly point to that. It's a lot less interesting if the MacBook Pro isn't there.

Because then we're left with the Mac Mini, which I love the Mac Mini. And this is one of those holes in the lineup that many people have pointed out where you can't buy a desktop computer with a Max processor. No, a Pro processor in it. Right? You can get the Max and the Ultra in the Mac Studio. And you can get the straight up M1 in the iMac and the Mac Mini. But then there's a gap, a performance gap between them. And there's still the kind of Intel Mac mini hanging out on the

price charts because even Apple knows that that M1 Mac mini is not powerful enough for a lot of the uses that the Mac mini is put to. So seems like it's Mac mini's time to shine where it picks up an m2 presumably and also a configuration that's got that higher end m2 processor and my only question there is are they going to have two mac minis the the silver one and the space gray one and the space gray one is the high-end one because that's how they did it with the last the last intel one is like the space gray it's like no it's a very serious mac mini it's slightly darker i don't know yeah you can tell it's uh because it's dark it's for pros yeah that's the yeah i wonder if the m2 processors might not be that much of a story either could be i mean there was right they could just be they could just say we updated

the cores and they're faster i mean that is i think there's one way to look at the m2 cycle which is that it is a a very quiet processor cycle update like it's better but only a little bit better and that perhaps apple is even kind of poised to wait until M3 for the big leap and that M2 is a little bit more of a placeholder. There's an argument to be made that that's the case. Oh, and also it's like we shouldn't get too lost in the idea that the original M1 chips were so big a departure, but that future chips might just be much more iterative on the original architecture right for sure for sure i i keep thinking that they're going to probably this is true like we're not going to get another leap like we did to m1 because we were coming from intel and now we're not but what i would say is that they integrated a bunch of stuff that was

in the m2 pro or in the m1 pro into the M2 base model, which makes me think they've got some stuff in the higher end M2s to bring in there so that there's some story there. That is a subtle, esoteric, and super nerdy argument, but for our audience, it's actually kind of important. For the general public, probably not. James Thompson is pointing out that there's some question about would the Macs even ship until November? Would they announce them later? If they do press releases, they could totally stagger it and have an iPad announcement this week or next, and then a Mac announcement a couple of weeks after that. It would be fine if they could do that with the rolling thunder, or they could just do it all at once. So we'll see.

So we'll see. But anyway, I predict now that if we see these Macs in the next couple of weeks, regardless of where they ship, I think you're right, Mike. I mean, bet on boring. Bet on boring because otherwise they would make, unless they hold an event, boring is probably what it is. But boring for the general public doesn't mean it's boring for us because I think there'll be interesting things in the M2 Pro and Max, even if the M2 as a processor generation is a pretty light upgrade, there are things they could potentially stuff in there that might also show the way to a Mac Pro

with an even higher end chip in it. But I don't think they'll actually say anything about the Mac Pro, is my guess. Right? Like, why would you do that? We're never gonna see it. It's a product that's never gonna come out. It's just, you know, once a year, we light the candle

and leave the door unlocked and put out a placemat and leave some cookies, and we say maybe the Mac Pro will come. You clear off a spot on the desk, you leave a power strip there and you say tonight's the night that we wait for the Mac Pro. And everybody knows it's not going to appear.

The further it moves away from like say whenever it was maybe WWDC, I don't remember. The funnier it is that they actually referenced it, right? That like in the event, thomas is like it's coming and then like the further we get away from that it's like why did you even say it like

you didn't even need to you didn't need to say it like we're fine either way but i think they did it to to basically uh claim victory and say it really doesn't count like with a mac pro we've done everything except the mac pro and and nobody cares about that one. So we're fine. We're fine. And then all the Mac nerds in the back are like, and the high-end Mac mini. Like, oh, right.

Okay, well, maybe they'll claim victory again. Maybe they'll be like, with the introduction of this high-end Mac mini, now we've completed the transition except for the Mac Pro. Mission accomplished. Just make us wait a little bit longer. Anything else you think that they might announce in the next couple of weeks?

Is there anything else out there? I doubt it, really. There's always stuff on the horizon, but I can't imagine hardware. I mean, the only other thing is iOS 16.1 and live activities, right? Which you kind of touched on. But I've started to get some betas that have live activity support. Live activity support is awesome. It's really good.

It's really good. And so I've only got three apps that support it right now. And I am very excited for more of them. Something I did not know if you have two kind of concurrent live activities going on, they just stack. I don't know how many

you can have at a time on your lock screen but I currently have had in the past two apps they're both running live activities and they're both visible to me. I thought that was interesting like this is third party apps as well as obviously with the 14 pro uh showing in the dynamic island and that kind of stuff so yeah i'm uh i'm very excited

about live activity support um in in the apps that i use so uh i'm very keen to see where this where this goes and i expect this will be something that uh will be adopted by also a lot of mainstream developers pretty quickly because i think it benefits a lot of them you know like your ubers of the world you're like when you deliver here but like doordash like all these kinds of companies stuff yeah i was thinking this would be great a great third-party opportunity for the Mac. Follow me here. One of the great things, and again, this is an opportunity Apple should probably participate in and sync across devices. But failing that, I was thinking of something like pushover, which I've complained about before, but it's the idea that Apple should probably facilitate the

ability to send push notifications across all your devices from your devices, and they don't. So you have to do something like use an app like pushover to say, oh, a thing happened on my Mac. Why don't you tell my iPhone in a push notification? Right. It's dumb, but that's, but I think, I think about that for live activities too. Like what if I set a video encode on my Mac? Like, wouldn't it be cool to have like a live activity on my iPhone that showed me where the, where it was in the process of encoding that would be awesome anyway it's just a thought you know me mike mike i've already always got a mac angle there's well i mean you're the mac guy right new new iphone features and i go but what about the mac how will that work with the mac how does the dynamic island affect the mac my column does not the entire column no it doesn't no no no mike you

can't do it that way pro pro tip you gotta it's 800 words so it's got to be like well many iphone users are fascinated by the dynamic island the mac users are left to wonder what it means for them well i have some surprising thoughts about that and then you go on the first section is like listen to this we're really getting the inside track on journalism today let me give you the background about the magnet oh you know that the the island was introduced in 2022 and blah blah and then it's like oh now let's think about the notch on the macbook pro would that be a place for the Dynamic Island? Well, no, probably not because it's just a big notch. And so in conclusion, probably not. Have you written this article yet or are you just about to? That is the thought process that goes through my head whenever I write an article like that,

a ThinkPeace article. Fortunately, especially when it's the you know mac world wants one of these every week um i i think through these topics and i sometimes right you you put them through the grinder of like is this going to work because i'm not going to write it and get 500 words in and go oh my god this is nothing at least i'm not going to do that that often it's like 40 columns a year it can happen but ideally what you want to do is put it through the little like virtual machine of what would this column be and what would be its bullet points and how would it work and and with something like that inane idea you get to the end and you'd be like no nope that's not a column delete not that's not the topic and then you find one that

actually bears enough weight that you can get 800 words out of it. But the structure is the same. It's just that that would be a completely empty pointless column and they shouldn't pay me for it, which is why I wouldn't have written it. This episode is brought to you by Doppler.

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lasers so we can move on Paul wants to know Jason do you have any updates on your experience

with the schlag enclosed encode plus door lock schlag schlag it's totally

Americanized schlaga schlaga is what it should be but it's schleg uh any updates well paul i sent paul sent this in on twitter and i sent paul a link to my story about it on sixcolors.com yeah but that's that was then this is now yeah right yeah uh it works it's it's good it's solid. Home key is great. There's now a new lock that's got home key that's out. And it's interesting because it's basically like a smart lock that hides inside a key lock. I think that one looks awesome. It's called like the level lock or something.

Yeah. So they've got a new model that's got home key support, which is NFC. It's basically on your Apple Watch or your iPhone. You have a home key and wallet. You set it as your active home key and you just tap and it unlocks. Now, I like having the keypad on mine, actually, because it allows us to do things like

if we have somebody staying here, house sitter, for example, we give her a code and she can enter it in. We don't have to give her a key, a spare key, but we could do that. And that level lock is that., no one even knows it's anything but a regular lock with a, with a key key hole in it, but, um, it's actually this NFC lock. Um, and so, yeah, you tap and it opens, which is, that was my problem with my old lock is that, you know, it's trying to use Bluetooth shenanigans and not doing a very good job of it and it would only open some of the time for us and now if i if i come up to the front door and i'm kind of perfecting my gesture of basically laying my apple watch on the

on the square of the keypad and it unlocks the door it's uh so i'm i'm liking it but um that level lock looks interesting too i'm gonna put a link in the show notes to uh quinn nelson did a youtube like did a short it's a little video yeah um and i just think it looks great because like this one just looks like a lock and it doesn't look like a smart lock and i think that there's something nice about that particularly um oh i agree none of these things are available in the uk yet one day they will be, and then I'll be happy. One day. And there's different standards for building,

which is part of the problem, right? Like our American locks are weird compared to many of the locks that are in the UK. But you could get your big smart home buddy to send them to you and then just put them in your door and just have an American door. Yeah, American door. Yeah, I wouldn't have an American door. Yeah, American door.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind an American door. You know like how we have American fridges? Do you know about this? Do you have that? Wait, what? So any fridge that's got two doors is known here as an American fridge. Which is great

because I think we call those French doors. Really? I think. French doors are a thing that I know of like as doors that's funny yeah it's like french fries you know i guess they're from belgium uh-huh no but like you know french so they're freedom doors in certain parts of this country probably so really mike when you think about it aren't all doors freedom doors no if they're open what if it's jail locked oh yeah it depends on what side you're on right as to where

the door is a freedom door if the door is open it's freedom to go in or out yeah but if the door is closed on you and locked it's no longer then it's not freedom anymore no that's true but then isn't that the locks problem not the door's problem? The door is made to swing. Otherwise, it's a wall. What if it's a sliding door? Does that make a difference? Well, that's why we call them sliding doors, because they're different. Right, okay. And pocket doors, of course, slide on the inside, and you can put them in your pocket.

European fridges, they're typically like fridge and freezer stacked on top of each other, right? Like it's just one column, because they're slim, because and freezer stacked on top of each other, right? Like it's just one column because they're slim because smaller homes, right? So we have just slim fridges. Sure. But if you get a fridge that has like you open two doors left and right, you've got like the freezer on the left and the fridge on the right or whatever, that is an American fridge. Oh, I see. I see.

Oh, we call, well, so that we call side by side. Okay. When does French doors come into the mix then? Well, my refrigerator is French doors. And that's the, it's actually on the, the freezer's on the bottom and it slides out. I would still call this an American fridge just because it has two doors. If it has two doors next to each other. The refrigerator's on the top and it has two doors that open instead of one. Yeah. The configuration is not so much for us the reason you call it an american fridge is if it has two doors that open

like side by side no matter how it's arranged even if the freezer's on the bottom or the freezer's on one side or whatever well we we sort of different i mean french doors are becoming more of the norm here but we sort of differentiate that versus a side. Like I grew up with a side-by-side, which is it's one unit and there's a tall door on the right that is the refrigerator and a tall door on the left that is the freezer. That's what I grew up with. Yeah. Okay. And I don't think we would have called that French doors.

We would have just called that a side-by-side. All right. Well, this is good stuff, good knowledge. Robot or not, that's the question. Fridge or not. Next question comes from Tim. Jason is a firm believer in page-turn buttons on e-readers, but I have never heard him talk about the option to scroll with an e-reader. I tend to read e-books on iPads

and find that a wonderful way to move forward. What are Jason's thoughts on scrolling with e-readers? So first off, everybody should read in the way that they like. I heard from some people who said, why do you like page turn buttons? I hate them. I press them by accident.

I prefer to just tap the screen. I'm glad that you feel that way and it works for you. I hate it. I hate that. I hate the taps. The taps aren't always accurate. And, um, on the Kobo, you can actually turn the taps off because also if you want to brush like dust off your screen, it advances the page. And I don't like that. And the, um, the clicking of a page turn button, I can rest my thumb on the page turn button, and all I have to do is press it and press it and press it. I don't move my hand.

And I know this is a minor thing, but I don't really like the ergonomics of having to get a nice grip on the e-reader and then change the grip to turn a page by moving my finger or thumb over, having it cover part of the screen temporarily, touch it, hope that the page actually turns, and then move it back and go back to my original grip. I'd much rather keep one grip the whole time.

So that's basically the source of it. And I find the page turn buttons to be much more reliable. Also, some people like scrolling, like Tim. Scrolling on e-ink is not good. So that's the first thing is these e-ink readers. I have that one that I tried out. That's the Android e-ink reader where you run Android. And I thought it would be really interesting. And it was interesting, but it was kind of ultimately a failure, I think. And it, they had a thing where they were using essentially they were doing a key like keyboard emulation kind of thing to do page turn buttons because while you could scroll you really

wouldn't want to just the way the refreshing of an e-ink screen works it's bad on an ipad um i think it's interesting that tim really loves to scroll. I don't like scrolling along documents. I find it very fiddly to have to, you know, I am constantly scrolling up and up and up. I really do prefer. And that's one of the reasons I prefer an e-ink reader is if it's a very, very long thing, like a book, because I've done that on my iPhone, right? Like I'm at the doctor's office and I don't have my e-reader with me, and I'm waiting for an unknown amount of time. I will load the e-reader app on my phone. And even there, I've tried it in scroll mode and I just don't like it.

Which is not to say that I don't scroll through Twitter and I don't scroll through my RSS readers and I don't scroll web pages. I do all those things. But there's, I don't know, something about knowing that this book is going on for thousands and thousands of pages. I don't, I just don't want to scroll it. I just, and above a certain amount, even, even on a very long, like a magazine article on the web, I get a little uncomfortable after a while with the fact that I'm going to be scrolling this thing forever. Plus I find scrolling distracting because I end up putting my thumb on the screen and going like, scroll up, down, like wiggling it around a little bit

and that's no good. I don't, anyway. But everybody has their own preferred method. I just, that's mine. To scroll or not to scroll? The robot or not again? Nathan asked,

should folks with smart home accessories wait until new Matter products reach the market, or should we continue buying existing HomeKit or Echo or whatever products? I'm considering some security cameras, doorbells, door locks

and maybe a thermostat. My recommendation to you, Nathan, is that if you do not need to buy any smart home product right now, don't. Just wait. Like, wait. We are just a few weeks away

from the Mata thing being officially unveiled or whatever. And I expect that we might, at that point, get even more details than we have now. I don't think it's a good time to buy anything smart home related unless you are confident as to whether it will or will not support matter i think it's going to be much more

beneficial for you in the sense of future compatibility to wait because i do genuinely i am a i'm a matter believer right like I think it's going to be very beneficial. I'm excited about it. I think that you're best knowing that question beforehand. I agree 100%. If you can put it off, put it off because they're in the midst of a text transition. After we get through the transition, it will be clearer what things have been transitioned and what the story is.

There will probably be some products that fade away if they aren't gone already. Everybody else will have a story about like, well, this is how it works. If you can avoid it, avoid it for now. And especially if you're going to make a big investment in a whole bunch of stuff, I would hold off until we know what the details are with Matter and how it shakes out. If you can't, I would say just shop very carefully and try to buy things from companies that have professed a desire to provide a Matter compatibility for that product, right? You can do that. It's just extra work to do it. If you can avoid it, I would say, like Mike, avoid it. Last question comes from Brantz. What are the ideal objects to stick stickers on?

Oh boy. question comes from brant's what are the ideal objects to stick stickers on oh boy i think laptops i do think laptops are good and i have actually stuck a couple of stickers on my macbook air which i've not done in a really long time uh much to my wife's upset i'm sure because when we sell the devices adina does is very good at like doing all the ebay stuff and so she kind of like prepares the devices and that kind of stuff and gets them ready to be sold which when i've stuck stickers on devices also requires removing the stickers which could be like a whole thing and so i've stopped doing it except now i have done it on my macbook air the stickers that we have for the saint jude campaign which include these little character versions, which are officially called X-Ray Man and Mr. Yellow.

One is me, one is Steven. They're very good looking as laptop stickers. And I have gone ahead and done that. I am not a big sticker person. I have some stickers on the little pencil case on my desk i have some stickers on my ipod hi-fi which i used to have on my desk that's now in the corner but i can see a little upgrade sticker over there some other stickers over there i i would say i'd put a lot of stickers on on when i well i don't put a lot of stickers on anything but when i put stickers

on something it's something sort of non-essential that i'm not too worried about um i have a sticker on my ipad um smart keyboard i thought about doing more there i had ones on the previous one and there was something about putting stickers on the accessory and not the ipad that for some reason me feel okay, which I find it's kind of funny, but I feel okay about that. So my previous iPad keyboard, I gotta be honest, one of the reasons that I am hesitant about stickers, and I've got lots of stickers that are unstuck, is I hate when I fix a sticker on something, it means that its life is now, it's living its best life, but its life is now temporary. And when that, uh, product goes away, the stickers life ends. And so if I really like

a sticker, I end up in this very weird situation where I'm afraid to stick the sticker because I, it's a really good one and I don't want to blow it. But at the same time, once it's stuck, I also know that it's, you know, when that product is gone, that sticker is gone too. And that makes me sad. So it's, you know, I have lots of complicated feelings about stickers. Every now and then I find my previous smart keyboard, which I still have, or maybe the smart keyboard before the magic keyboard came out, the smart keyboard. And it's got some stickers on it. And I see the stickers and I'm like, oh, oh i miss them but it's too bad they're gone they're they're on the old hardware that i

don't use anymore if i if only i didn't care about stickers i if i didn't love them so much i would use them more i will say maybe the very very best thing is to stick stickers on a keyboard case but i've never really brought myself to want to put a case on my keyboard on my laptop sorry i should say not keyboard laptop case you know like you get those little cases that go on laptops that kind of thing sure well that's how i feel about the the magic keyboard for the ipad right it's like there's something about it where it's there's a different threshold there of i can you know, I'm not doing this on the iPad. I'm just doing this on the keyboard.

And then when it's not in the keyboard case, it's different, right? It doesn't have those. But when it is, then there they are. I don't know. I don't have a lot of bumper stickers on my car either, right? Like I'm not a big sticker person. If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on a future episode of the show,

just send out a tweet with the hashtag AskUpgrade, and it can be included in a future episode, or you can use question mark AskUpgrade in the RelayFM members' Discord, which you get access to if you subscribe to Upgrade Plus. Go to GetUpgradePlus.com, and you will get longer ad-free versions of every episode of Upgrade for either $5 getupgradeplus.com and you will get longer ad-free versions of every episode

of Upgrade for either $5 a month or $50 a year. And you'll also be helping support the show. Thank you to everybody that does. I would also like to thank our sponsors of this episode. Doppler, CleanMyMac X, and TextExpander. And thank you for listening. If you want to find Jason online, go to

sixcolors.com. And he is at Jason L on Twitter. I am at Iyke, I-M-Y-K-E. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.