Upgrade - 461: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2023

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

It's time for our eighth annual competition regarding what will happen at Apple's WWDC keynote! Jason and Myke will be there in person--but what will be announced? Is the Apple mixed-reality headset really going to happen? Will there be room for new Mac hardware? And what do we anticipate for macOS, iOS, iPadOS, and watchOS?

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 461 and it is the wwdc keynote draft for 2023 this episode is brought to you by Nom Nom and Dark Noise. My name is Mike Hurley, and I am joined by my competitor in the draft, Jason Snell. You're going down, Mike. Is that what competitors say? Welcome.

You can say that. Welcome to the Octagon, where two podcasters enter and both leave, but one of them will win next time. Yes. This time we will both enter and both leave but one of them will win next time yes this time we will both enter and both leave and next time one will win but we'll still both leave but they'll be a winner yeah i have a snow tour question for you okay comes from me and i would like to know one week out from wwdc how are your vibes you Are you excited? Yeah, I am. I am. I mean, we always talk about this and it's always like, oh, it's a lot of work, right? And I don't even have a trip,

right? It's literally, I just drive down. It's not that. You're coming to California. It's a whole thing. And for me, it's just like, but I'll tell you, not only am I always interested in the resetting of the Apple software year and what are the new OS is going to be and all that. And it's like so much about like, what are they, what are their focuses and what are they going to say? And what are we going to be focusing on in our jobs for the next year? I mean, it's a big deal, but it's not every day. Apple launches an entirely new platform, hardware and software. And it's been, you know, you say about it's the next year, right?

This one is like years yeah that's the difference yeah yeah yeah no this is this is i mean really i would say probably since the apple watch that we've had something of this scope and uh if what we assume is going to happen is going to happen so that is extra exciting because those moments are special and although there's this public perception out there that like apple releases a new revolutionary product every year or they used to but they don't anymore like it's never been true um it's very rare that you get one of these moments but here we are and this one's particularly interesting because so much of it is sort of a mystery i know that there have been all these leaks and all these features and all that but like i it's what i always say about apple events but like exploded several more times which is what's

the narrative what do they emphasize what are some of the details like we know a lot about like the bill of lading for this thing but we don't know a lot about like the philosophy behind it and how they've structured the operating system and and and clever little details that are going to make you go oh of course um that's the stuff that i'm really looking forward to it's like my kind of feeling of this one right now the headset is the first new product that could have a potential effect like the iphone i feel like the iPad, we're really excited about it. It's like, this is new thing. The Apple Watch, I don't think anyone realistically expected

that the Apple Watch would be its own revolutionary product, right? That it was going to be. I mean, the press at the time though this is i'm not saying reasonably i'm saying the press at the time was like apple needs another thing and oh this is going to be the next iphone and we those of us like including you and me we're like waving our arms like no no no it's not there's not going to be another iphone it's it's not it's not all this headset is not going to be that if there is going to be something i think think this is the start of it. Like if the glasses are the future, this is the beginning.

So I'm very excited. Obviously, I am also incredibly excited because I'm coming. I'm going to be at the keynote. And this time, Jason, I am going to be at the keynote. I'm manifesting this in my mind. I will be there at Apple Park.

We'll be there together. We have something fun to share about that in a little bit. But we have some rules to get to for the draft. This is a game of rules. There are going to be 16 rounds in this year's draft, a total of 32 overall picks split into five categories. They will be iOS and iPadOS. That is one category.

Then headset, other, stagecraft, and a bonus round for picking the macOS name. It's your favorite round. It's going to be fun for everyone. The winner of the previous draft gets the first pick. I was the winner of the previous draft, so it's me. All of the things that we pick are from a predetermined list of choices which we have been amassing. We have agreed

that these are all set, and anything that is verifiable on screen is what is counted. We do not put in ridiculously obvious things here like you cannot pick there will be a new version of iOS.

That's not there. Yeah, there's no, there will be a headset pick, right? There's none of that. You got more detail required. Yeah. For an item to be counted and to be scored,

it must either be clearly announced on stage or on a slide during the presentation. So the draft is scored purely on the keynote presentation. If something's in the State of the Union, that's great for the State during the presentation. So the draft is scored purely on the keynote presentation. If something's in the State of the Union, that's great for the State of the Union. It doesn't matter for the draft.

Right. Or on the website. It doesn't matter. It does not matter. Yeah. There are no partial points awarded and Stephen Hackett will be brought in to adjudicate in the case of a scoring stalemate between the two of us.

But as we always say, we like to settle it together. Yes, we do. Gentlemen, gentlemen, like very gentle., we do. Gentleman-like. Gentleman-like. Very gentleman-like. Sportsman-like. The points awarded on the episode are final and are finalized during the

scoring segment. In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question. Loser will get the pick of the tiebreaker question. The winner will become draft champion and will display the champion pennant. Loser becomes the draft challenger and displays

the challenger pennant. So we have these pennants in our respective offices. Mine says champion. Jason's says challenger. For a while now. Here are the draft results for 2022. I was the winner, picking up both the wwdc and september wins uh jason's won the march event so it was a 2-1 this is the first event of 2023 which is

interesting it's weird the history of the wwdc draft is thusly i have won four times. Jason has won three times. So this is WWDC draft VIII. Correct. Yes. I now you said that I wish we would have made that the episode like naming convention. We could have gone like WWDC VIII. How fun would that be? I just submitted it as a title. Maybe we'll change it. Who knows?

Or at least it'll be the subtitle, potentially. Here are some programming notes. Next week, we will be recording live together from Apple Park. Looks like. This will be the first time,

hopefully, that the episode will have been recorded with both of us together in the grounds at Apple. I've been live at Apple. You've been live. A couple of times. And I was on a screen there. But, Jason, we don't need to rub it in, do we, really? See, this is Jason.

He's in joff mode right now. The iPhone event was like that. You weren't in California at all for the iPhone event, and you were on a little screen. Well, I was also on a screen for the WWwc one and i was also in san jose but that was not good that wasn't super helpful for anyone but but this time no screens hopefully just you and me yep together at a an undisclosed location somewhere around the apple campus we are currently scheduled to start around 1.45 p.m. if you listen live. This could change though, of course.

Please keep an eye on the Upgrade Mastodon account or in the RelayFM members Discord and we will keep you updated on our going live time. But we will be recording live. So if you are a RelayFM member, you can listen and hang out and chat in our Discord. But you can listen on the web at Relay.FM slash live. That's 1.45 p.m. Pacific. Pacific time. Yes. Cupertino time.

Cupertino time. That's the time that we'll both be in, so it's the time that we'll observe. It's the time. If you would like to score along with the draft, you can get your scorecard at upgrade.cards. Thank you so much to Upgradian and RelayFM Discord mod Zach Knox for putting that together for us, as they always do. It's highly appreciated. You can find the whole history there of the drafts if you'd like to go through yourself. And if you would like to get your very own draft shirt, you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com. That is a permanently available item. So let's get into it. Let's start with the tiebreaker.

We have for many years done event duration, and I think that that continues to be our preferred tiebreaker question. So Jason, would you like to choose the time in minutes? And I will go over under. All right, so what we have seen is thus far, Apple has done a lot of live events for WWDC that have been just over two hours, sometimes a lot over

if Jimmy Iovine comes out on stage and rambles. But their video events have been under two hours. The question is, with this keynote and this product that they're going to announce, are they going to be able to go under two hours and show that discipline? Or are they going to blow through it

and put it up above 120 minutes? And so I'm just going to lay it down right there, Mike. Tiebreaker. Are they going to break 120 minutes or are they going to keep it under no matter what? Oh, I hate this so much. That's the idea. I am in my personal inclination I hate this so much. That's the idea.

My personal inclination is that it will break two hours. I do believe that that's going to be the case. So I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say over 120 minutes. Okay. And my personal inclination is that they won't break two hours because they've just decided that's the limit. And that's why I said it where I did is I thought that that's actually a natural break between what you already think and what I already think. So there it is.

It's on the line. In case of a tie, we'll see how long the event is. I do think, though, if it does, it will break it by barely anything. I reckon it will be as close to two hours as they can get it yeah it's not going to be jimmy ivy and link that's for sure it's going to be that wwc was horrible that was i remember i was watching it in a um like an event watching party that the release notes conference put on and i'm not sure if i've ever needed to use the bathroom more in my life by the end of that schmoozy uh showbiz services talk should not be in a wwdc keynote

and just the amount of guests that they had and like the amount of executives they had all just for apple music that was all it was for like an hour for apple music it was so ridiculous not good yeah yeah not great but we don't have to worry about that for this time it's gonna be great for Apple Music. It was so ridiculous. It was not good. Yeah. Yeah. Not great. But we don't have to worry about that for this time. It's going to be great. Probably not. You got to hope, but I mean,

I think one of the problems that they had is it was just, it wasn't tightly edited, right? Like that was the issue. Well, right. It's live.

And if you ramble on the current Apple videos, they just cut you down or cut you out. But back then, you're on stage, you're Jimmy Iovine, you're on stage. You're Jimmy Iovine. You're Eddie Cue.

You're out there on stage. There is no comical hook, vaudeville-style hook to pull you off the stage. Like, no, that's it. That's enough. So they're just out there rambling and wasting time. So, yeah, they don't do that anymore. They'll cut you or they'll tell you to snap it up while they're recording it and just figure it out.

Was there Apple TV stuff in that one too? I don't remember. Because I... That was a long time ago. I believe that there was a keynote, if not that one, where I think it was that one, that they stretched it for time because they didn't have some deals done for Apple TV.

Is that something that... But that doesn't make any sense why you would need to stretch it for time it's like it's not like you need a minimum requirement but yeah it kind of the keynote kind of went off the rails a little bit because something had to get cut yeah this episode is brought to you by our friend over at dark noise Do you struggle with sleeping in silence or focusing when you want to really get down to some kind of work project or study? If any of these are true for you,

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of this show and RelayFM. So we move into the first four picks, the first round, which is iOS and iPadOS. As the winner of the previous draft, I will get to go first. It's the way I tend to

do things. I have my little list here that I've compiled. I've gone in and made my own list based on our list and ranked them. And I'm going to go with widgets on the iPad lock screen as my first pick. Huh. We have like this long list of stuff, right? And I'm kind of stuck a little bit in trying to guess what I think is the most likely stuff to be added in a year where iOS and iPadOS may not be the focus. And also what I'm trying to wonder is what are thing they could show for the ipad that we may immediately be able to understand if they haven't spent a lot of time on ipad os itself right so that's kind of where i'm thinking they're gonna go and i'm using for that like a previous recipe i'm trying to think of,

like a previous trend of Apple introduces something for the iPad and then the next year we see it on the iPad. And I feel like lock screen widgets on the iPad is something that should exist. Like it makes a lot of sense to do that. So this is what I'm expecting. Well, Mike, you'll be happy to know that that was my top choice.

Oh, great. I'm pleased that you agree with me. The sound that was my top choice oh great i'm pleased that you agree with me the sound that you made initially i felt like i had to justify myself i mean you always have to justify yourself but no that that uh that was i was surprised that you picked it but um i had it at the top of my list so you know you're playing to win i appreciate that i am 100 playing to win i've had a taste of the winning life, and I want to keep my... I don't want to turn this pennant around, Jason Snell. I know. I get it.

I am going to choose the health app on the iPad for my pick. There's some rumors out there. Mark Gurman said it would happen. Part of this is, as always, wish casting on my part. I think that it should be on the iPad. I think that having that information available on the iPad makes sense sense it's frustrating that it's only on the iphone and since there is a credible rumor out there that it's going to happen i've decided to just step up and pick it um time to get that thing on the ipad uh health is should not be

limited to one device you have to remind me here if this was to exist, would my iPhone's data sync to my iPad? I think it would have to, right? I mean, maybe if you were, I mean, this is the question, right? It's like Apple Watch only does it with the iPhone, like doing fitness, but can't you do fitness without the Apple Watch now? And yeah, I mean, I think that implicit in the idea of the health app on the iPad is that they would do some end-to-end encryption of your health data and be able to sync it between devices. So I hope that's what they did. Yeah, I mean, I know that they do the end-to-end encryption. And I'm hoping that there will be some way for that to then find its way onto my iPad, right?

Like my iPad could also have the key to unlock it because that would be the benefit. It is one of those things when every time people say the health app should come to the iPad, my first thought is, wait, the health app is not on the iPad? Like it just feels like a fitness is there. I have all this health data from my runs and all my Apple Watch data syncs to my iPhone. And I always want to look at it when I'm using my iPad. And I can't. And I have to go to my iPhone. And I admit I am more iPad-focused than iPhone-focused.

But, like, surely I'm not the only one like that. And it doesn't seem reasonable that my health data is only located on that one iPhone. I would like it to be on my other devices, certainly on my iPad, if I at least wish to have it all synced. So, yeah. But again, there is also a rumor out there that this is going to happen. So I'm not completely... I wouldn't pick this if there was no rumblings about it. But it sounds like this is something that may actually happen.

about it, but it sounds like this is something that may actually happen. So talking about potential apps that may be finding their way onto iOS that have been rumored, my second pick in the draft will be the introduction of a journaling app for iOS and iPadOS. I was a little shaky on this thing, but a few days ago Mark Gurman published a report also kind of confirming that it's coming

I have more questions on this than the health app for example because the health app is just bringing over something existing but the journaling app I'm really intrigued to see exactly what it is Apple's going to do and when thinking about iOS and iPadOS and ipad os maybe having as not higher focus as normal um this feels like something you could put into ios 17 even though realistically it probably doesn't need that you know like this is building on a set of existing technologies surely that

apple has uh but they're going to put it into ios 17 as an ios 17 feature it would just be a new app from apple yeah i agree with you this is a really exciting category i had on my list but i decided to go with for my pick the broader choice which was also on our list which is a new apple default app on ipad or iPhone. What would that mean in this circumstance, like for this year? I mean, if the journaling app is not in the app store, but is on the device. Pre-installed. Or if they do a password thing, which is another one of our individual choices. Yeah.

That's how I interpret it. They'll add an app. They'll add an app to the collection of apps that just comes with your phone. How would we know that? Like the journaling app, how would we know it comes pre-installed? Why is it on our list if we wouldn't know it? Yeah, but the way I've always assumed default app was kind of like, I was thinking about it in maybe different terms.

Well, yeah, I just, I, I, I highlighted it very much as like, I think they're going to add an app and then you could also pick passwords or journaling if you wanted to. And you pick journaling. I'm like, well, I don't know. That was lower down on my list. Cause I'm like an app. I feel like there's a higher chance of that, uh, than this. Were you, yeah.

I wonder what, what were you thinking by this? Cause I can take it out. I think this maybe shouldn't have been in the list this year because we had the passwords and journaling app. I always kind of considered this as like some. Recycled from last year. That was one of the recycled ones. I do think that maybe if we're going to have the passwords and journaling apps,

we should maybe have not had that one in there. All right. That's fair. I will, I will withdraw it then thank you and i'm going to go in a different direction look at this sports person ship going on over here it's happening this is how this is how really like calm predictions gentlemen like um yeah on on the uh on the connected podcast somebody would pick it and

then everybody would agree that it was invalid yes but they couldn't change but it wouldn't have mattered anyway it's too late it's too late yeah or let's amend that for next time okay i'm gonna go with uh ipad support ipad with stage manager um on an external display uh will work lid closed wow wow okay are you wish-casting here? Do you really think they're going to do this? I really think they're going to do it. I think that this is something they just left on the table and that there's been enough complaint about it and there's enough of a use case for this.

I think actually having the iPad screen on when you're attached to an external display, it makes everything worse because one of the things that happens with stage managers, it starts sending things back to the iPad screen. Um, which at least when I use it, like I don't want, when I've got a big screen in front of me and then the iPad is off to the side or down below or whatever, like I don't want things on the iPad screen. I want them not on the iPad screen. on the ipad screen i i want them not on the ipad screen so i think that this is a a thing for them to to do to actually make the ipad experience better by offering this all right third pick control center redesign wow okay it's time this one was sure really early on um this was one of the rumors when the discussion around ios 17 was not much going on this is before you know some of this app stuff that we've been hearing about

which is talking about um i feel like that you know this is when we spoke about it at a time when it came up in rumor roundup it is a design that has stuck around for a decade realistically it's you know visually so similar still to ios 17 it's just kind of moved a bunch like it was used to be at the bottom now it comes from the top and now it takes over the whole screen i just feel like that there are much better ways of showing this kind of information than this like weird semi-transparent button thing that they've got going on right now i want it to happen um haven't heard about it in a while but you're right there was a credible rumor about that which makes it more than wish casting i would love to see it i think we did an episode where we talked about it

in detail the idea of being able to customize it much more and we complained about like the way the that home stuff is in there and it's you can't turn it you know it's going to pick what it's going to pick and uh so yeah i would love to see that we had two in our list that i think we maybe should merge together because i think they mean the same thing which is more functionality for the lock screen slash always on functionality yeah that's definitely just meant to be the same yeah that's the same thing so um i'm gonna pick it it was coming up for me very shortly that one yeah this is the idea that one they introduced all the lock screen stuff last time and they may add functionality there in terms of maybe expanded widgets who knows what but also i think it encompasses this late breaking mark

german rumor yep which is this idea of that just came out last week we haven't even talked about it on the show because we we did our last rumor roundup last week uh but the this idea that there's going to be kind of a uh uh it's almost like nightstand mode for the apple watch except for the iphone where you put it on its side uh and it gives you a nightstand thing where it's got like a different interface and it's just meant to be an ambient display for when you're in that mode. And that's really interesting too. But I think between those two ideas that they're going to work on this stuff and they're going to tweak the lock screen or add this new mode, once you've gotten always on

display, those are the two things you can do, right? You can add more content to the existing feature, or you could also make a variation on the feature and i love nightstand mode on my apple watch and that's what i use every single night um i don't i don't leave the iphone by the side of the bed but i know a lot of people do um and that this might actually be a pretty great feature or if you just got a dock somewhere if you could put information on it and have it actually visible um when it's on your desk or wherever that's cool cool too. So I think there's something there. I don't know what, but something. Yeah, I would love to see this on the iPad

more than the iPhone. I know, I know. But obviously there is a benefit to having this on an always-on display. Yeah. Right? Then on a display that you then have to keep on all the time and just really drain the battery down. Right. Although mean again it's one of those things that if i were tasked if i were at

apple and i was tasked with this idea for the ipad i would say well what do we have like we have we have cameras and we have the infrared dot projector and sensor and like could we do because like my cheap kitchen appliance devices both back when i had the Echo Show and now that I've got the Nest Home, they've got a sensor. First off, it knows what time it is. It knows how much light there is. And then it knows if there's movement in front of it. And it adjusts accordingly. So you could potentially do that with the iPad based on the stuff that's already there.

And wouldn't that be nice to have this feature where you could set an iPad in your kitchen and it would, or anywhere really, and it would behave in a certain way, depending on the time of day, show you information that's useful, not just be kind of like an empty slab, but I don't know.

Mark Gurman didn't actually say when he was reporting about this other feature, he didn't actually say that it wasn't coming to the iPad. What he did was the thing where he says, well, usually what they seem to be doing is bringing it to the iPhone and then bringing it to the iPad. And maybe that's what the plan is here is step one is put it on the iPhone. And step two is, you know, come out with that rumored kind of like dock product that goes with an iPad that you could put in the kitchen and it would use this mode maybe we'll get there but um yeah start with the iPhone would be okay if they do bring it to the iPad I think I get the points anyway because it's not specific to that but

looking forward to it all right so we're on to our final pick for iOS and iPadOS and I'm really struggling between two okay and there's like well that's good because I've only got two left on my pick list and I was going to have to go into the dregs. I'm not going to say which, but I'll give you my problem. There's one that I think is very possible but might not get mentioned or shown. And there's one that they would definitely spend time showing,

but I'm not convinced they're going to do it. So this is where I am with these two. I know which one that one is. I don't know about the other one, but I know which one that one is. but i'm not convinced they're gonna do it so this is this is where i am with these two i know what i know which one that one is i don't know about the other one but i know which one that one is uh i'm gonna go with the one that i think is maybe the most likely okay happen which is more functionality for the dynamic island oh you have the same two that i did yes yes more you you think this is but here's the thing is i i'm not convinced that there will be more functionality for the dynamic island i want there to be i'm not dynamic island

is great but i'm not convinced that after year one with the dynamic island that they're going to do anything other than just keep the dynamic island yeah and there could be more stuff around live activities there are things they could do and I see this as a potentially more likely thing than probably what you're going to say which is interactive widgets I'm assuming let's just put that out there

let's just put it on the table and talk about the both of them that's the one that we both had the same too as our next pick interactive widgets feels like if they do that they're going to show that off and spend a bunch of time with it yeah but i'm not sure they're going to do it no and also there is this may form part of a different operating system and they just show it during that operating system and don't talk about it in ios and then later on in the state of the union say oh and by the way you can now bring these features over to ios because

like a lot of the time when i'm thinking about the draft here this year is what are they just not going to say so they can cut time yeah because that's the truth of it right there there we i would almost guarantee there are going to be features that we at least if not picked we have in our our list of potential picks that are totally going to happen and either not appear in the keynote at all or appear in the keynote as a bullet point on a slide when they normally would have had a demo because they're just cutting stuff. And we have a pick later,

a stagecraft pick, but I'll give you a hint about it now. It's the footnote in the middle of the keynote that says state of the union. Yeah. What we have made another video that that explains more about all of this because we can't get it in here what's the state of the union a video last year like it was pre-recorded too oh yeah they're all they're all pre-recorded yeah okay i wasn't sure about that one but yeah it makes sense all right so that is the end of the iOS and iPadOS round.

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in the draft. So it's not often that we add an entire new category. I know, but we have to do it. We have to do it. And this is the category that is receiving the most picks this year. There are five picks in the headset category. Yeah, here we are.

I hope it happens. Otherwise, these five picks will just be a footnote. That is not the first time that that has happened to us. That's true. Right? We did. I don't remember what draft it was, but when we were expecting I think it was in 2020 when they did

the watch and the iPad, and we made iPhone picks, but there was no iPhone in that. There was no iPhone. Good times. Okay. My top pick for the headset, no headset pricing announced.

Oh, that was on my list. That was definitely on my list. That's a good pick. They're not going to talk about it here, right? I feel like no pricing information, probably no release information. I expect they will make some reference to, and there's more to tell you later on this year.

They may say shipping later this year or something, right? But no headset pricing will be announced. I think that's fair. James Thompson asks a good question in the Discord that maybe we want to clarify. What about developer pricing i don't really i feel like we're looking for consumer right like a developer kit is not the headset if that makes sense okay it could be anything no no consumer headset pricing announced

good clarification to make but that's kind of i feel the spirit of the pick here yeah oh definitely for sure yeah they're not they're not going to do it right they don't have to do it i don't think But that's kind of, I feel, the spirit of the pick here. Yeah. Oh, definitely. For sure. Yeah, they're not going to do it, right? They don't have to do it. I don't think they're going to do it. No. Like, it's not shipping. Why give people more time to chew over that price if they don't have to?

And they can just wait until closer to the time when they ship it. Anything can change, right? Up until it comes out, right? They may want to change it up or down, depending on how people react. Exactly. So I think that's a good pick. I had that high up in my list of picks. I am going to just embrace the name Reality Pro.

Oh, wow! Okay, Jason coming in hot with a naming pick. Yeah. Huh. okay jason coming in hot with a naming pick yeah huh well there's again lots of evidence out there that they've been trademarking reality pro and reality one and that reality pro is probably the high-end one and reality one is probably the low-end one that will come later and i it's got to have a name right and i think it's reality pro so i'm just gonna i'm gonna embrace it i'm gonna i'm gonna choose it that's it okay i mean if i was gonna go with a name right like my guess for a name this would be the name out of all the names we've heard. It was at the end, but it wasn't my potential picks that I made was Reality Pro,

but it was actually my last pick of the ones that I whittled down. Just because I don't feel sold on any of the names for anything really. That's how I feel about the OS names too. And we know that they can change names and we know that they can misdirect, but I feel like that's the name. More just in that none of them are great. So I can't feel like I can put my finger on what they might particularly go with.

This might just be called reality. Reality. They may not have a pro because there isn't anything else. Could be. My second pick is headset will be quote shipping later this year.

Yeah, that would have been my next pick. So they're not going to give any more information than just like later. And I feel like they have to say something, right? And who knows? They might say next year, right? I doubt it. Well, that's it.

You could be wrong. I think if they say by the end of the year, then you're right. If they don't give a time, I think you're wrong. Yes. If they don't give a time or if they say 2024, then I'm wrong. Basically, anything else is shipping later this year. Yep, I think that's very likely to be the case. So good pick.

Very much a good pick. I am going to pick VR FaceTime demo. This is going to be my next one. I think communication and collaboration is just too important to apple uh i think they've been laying the groundwork here facetime share play memoji like we the spoilers for an article i haven't yet written but very clearly dan or i will write an article sometime in late june or early july Macworld, where we detail all of the foundational software features that Apple has been building for the last five years

in anticipation of announcing this device. And so I just, I can't see them not saying, you're going to be able to communicate with other people and it's going to be like you're right together. And that's going to be, and when I say a FaceTime demo, I mean, if they call it something different, I mean, we know what a VR FaceTime demo is. It's VR communication

where you're in a room with somebody else. There are two people. They're in different places. They're both wearing headsets and they're having a conversation. That's VR FaceTime. But that's what they're going to call it, right? I feel like it will just be FaceTime.

Yeah, it'll just be FaceTime. Yeah, I think so. I'm going to go in that vein and say VR fitness experience shown. Oh, very good, very good. Now, here's the thing, though, about both of these things that we've just picked. Now, I expect that this is what they will need to do

to show the device, but I did have this thought of, like, we were talking about the Apple Music demo where the problem with the Apple Music demo at WWDC was, here's just like a lot of things for a consumer at the developer conference. So it's like an interesting thing of like, here's just like how this thing works, which is-

Will they withhold features like fitness? Will they withhold some of that for the announcement and focus more on sort of like what the platform is capable of doing and hold back some of these things and say, we're not going to show you. Like, I think FaceTime is more likely as a collaboration thing than fitness,

but fitness is like, will they hold that back and say, oh, Apple Fitness is also on the heads? Yeah, as we're talking about it, I've kind of talked myself out of it, but it's just too late now. It's late but yeah i think of the two and that was how i ranked them facetime is more likely for those reasons just because realistically that's what people want to see they want to see like how are apple going to demonstrate communication like that is more important than fitness fitness will i am convinced make up a part of the product but

that could be a we'll show you it in september situation then we'll show you it now yeah well we'll see i'm gonna i'm gonna i don't like it but i understand it and it's too consistent not to pick i'm gonna pick the external battery pack this is my next pick. Yeah. Just seems to, like, the signals are too strong that this is the story that they went with a design that is lighter on your head, but requires you to have a little pack

that you put in a pocket. Mm-hmm. And I, what I'm curious about, we haven't really talked about this a lot, is I've seen some people make the comment like,

okay, you can watch a movie with this, but if the battery life's only two hours, you're not going to be able to do it. I kind of assume that there's going to be a pass-through where you could plug the thing that you use to charge the battery. You can also just plug it in

and sit down to watch a movie and it'll just run forever. Yeah, I think, I'm trying to remember now, I think I remember a rumor suggesting from, I believe it was from Mark Gurman, that the battery pack will connect via a MagSafe-like connector that locks, but there's also going to be a USB-C on it

for power and maybe some data transfer or something. Yeah, I expect you're right, that you'll be able to plug it into a laptop power adapter and just sit sit for hours and that will be how people will use it at their desks for example at their desks you know exactly yep yep that's not my pick it's just the external battery yeah yeah external battery pack is the pick and i think that's a good one and you know this is one of those ones that i could imagine if this wasn't true we would have that would have been corrected by now yes in fact i fact, I was going to say the reverse, which is if it had an external battery pack and it hadn't leaked yet, Apple would totally leak it. Because it's funny how we first heard about this and we're like, oh, that's so inelegant.

That's so not Apple. And now we're like, yeah, that's totally what it's going to be, right? Like we've just kind of come to accept that it's going to be like that. I have been on board with this idea from the start. I think this is a very, very good idea because VR headsets currently are too heavy. They're just too heavy. This is in the design is how it works phase, right? Which is from a pure Johnny Ive kind of like it all needs to be stripped down to its fundamentals, right?

And having it just be an entirely self-contained object that you put on i think is the design ideal but there's the design is how it works thing which is like that's really heavy and unpleasant and you don't want to use it and so you make a concession to the complex complexity of the hardware in exchange for the experience being better. And yeah, I agree. I think that's probably the right decision. And a single cable, like people say, get in your way. Like the thing I'll have to say to you is like,

did you have this problem when you used an iPod? Like we all had cables. It's a very easy way to do this. You plug it in and then you just drop the battery pack down the inside of your shirt and put it in your pocket. Like this is very simple to get around.

There's lots of ways to do it, yeah. Yeah like this this won't be an issue i like it will be great i think it will make a much better experience than any of the meta headsets because it's going to be just more comfortable to wear provided they get the rest of it right but the weight part will definitely be a good thing i'm gonna go back to the developer story a little bit and something that i think will be shown off is ipad apps running in vr a demoed yes this was next on my list in fact this will be like one of the two part of the developer story right that there will be a traditional app story how do you get your apps today into reality pro and and then how do you develop whole new vr first experiences like they're the two concurrent things which i think

will actually really benefit this product that there are two legitimate paths for getting apps on the thing you know and i think that will be helpful for people using it and for its adoption in the long run that you'll be able to do everything you can currently do on an ipad in theory plus there are these full immersive experiences yeah it makes sense makes sense i agree with you who was next on my list um next then oh yeah well that's the question i'm gonna go with a core ar feature that i think you've got to have in a product like this which is facial expression tracking very good one very very good one the idea here is that it's going to have technology to look at your eyes and you're like are you closing your eyes are you

are lifting an eyebrow are you frowning like it's going to be able to look at you and intuit your expression so that it can convey that in an avatar yeah in some way and that they'll talk about that they'll they'll be a moment of like yeah and like it matches your your what your eyes are doing and i'm not saying you know in where that will happen but i think that they'll have to mention like we we're not going to make your avatar a uh a completely opaque just like a a serial killer face right that has no expression we're gonna do expressions and we're gonna do it by watching your expressions and conveying them in your avatar i mean just like they do with memoji where you can you can pose for a memoji and it and it like looks at your face it'll be like that right it's gonna look at your face and uh and track those expressions the meta quest pro has

this so it has um like facial expression tracking sensors and in like meeting environments it's a huge it makes a huge difference because you know like if you're talking to someone they start thinking they start looking up you get that you see them do that. I think that it is, for immersion in these environments, it is a pretty important thing. I mean, as well, if you're doing eye tracking as well, it's not a huge

jump to imagine face tracking. Eye tracking has been mentioned for this thing for a long time, so they can do that foveated rendering stuff, which is what the PlayStation headset does my final pick is

this isn't the other side of the developer part but I think will be an interesting part of the device I think it will be one of the ways that they show really cool AR technology which will be that the headset has a mode to operate like a desktop computer experience. Oh, all right.

So you're doing iPad apps and computer experience. This was my next choice. But it feels less likely as a demo than the iPad thing. What's that going to be like? as a demo than the iPad thing, what's that going to be like? But yeah, the idea, this is the use case where it's like, you can be anywhere and connect to your Mac

and have a big screen. Here's what I'll ask you for the grading of this. We said like, I see the Mac as part of it, but what if it was, you can also sit down and use a keyboard and mouse to control the iPad apps? That would be fine. Yeah.

Well, hmm. keyboard and mouse to control the ipad apps that would be fine yeah well i think the way to maybe to to judge this is are there peripherals involved that's the i feel like to me that's the desktop computer experience part but okay yeah i mean it's like a virtual screen i was thinking more of it from the perspective of connect to a Mac. Well, I think it's that too. And see a Mac OS screen. Right, like I do think that too, because I also do think they'll have that. I think that would be a really cool part of it. But if they say, hey, you can run iPad apps, and in fact, heck with that, you can run a whole giant screen with iPad apps on it, and it's like a virtual screen, and you've got a keyboard and a point device or whatever. It's like an actual stage manager thing, right?

I don't understand why you would do that. That would be weird on the iPad, but yeah, I'm open to it. We'll see. Yeah, I think you would do that because of the typing experience. I think that the air typing... Yeah, it's the pointing that's weirder, but the typing, yeah. Yeah, the typing experience is going to be pretty key, I think. Cool.

Although I'm also a believer in this concept of the mixed reality input devices where you have a physical keyboard and it recognizes that you have a physical keyboard and shows it to you, either a virtual analog or it just shows you a picture. That part of the screen shows you your virtual keyboard

or your real keyboard. Something like that too. It doesn't necessarily have to be pecking at an imaginary keyboard it could be a real keyboard you could be typing on a keyboard that's not actually connected to the headset itself but it's picking it up that would be wild what's your final pick for the headset i have one more and it's gonna be you know if this was a consumer launch where i felt like the consumer story was important i would probably pick a content choice here like movies or sporting events being mentioned but as we said before it's not it's the developer conference i think especially content like tv

plus movies and sports. Yeah, exactly. I can't imagine that they would spend too much time on that if at all at WWDC. Well, unless they've got a story that's really impressive and they're really proud. But the MLS season will be over before it ships, right? So I'm going to go the other way and say that there'll be a technical announcement. And it's going to be an M2 chip powering the headset. Now, I could be wrong because they could have an R1 or whatever. But I think it's going to be an m2 chip powering the headset now i could be wrong because they could have an r1 or whatever uh but i think it's going to be m2 family and it could be

pro or it could be m2 or whatever but like they're going to say something about it being an m2 essentially an m2 i would actually even be okay if what they said was it's that it's basically an m2 we took the m2 and that's what it's going to be i was going to say this that yes it's basically an M2. We took the M2 and that's what it's going to be. I was going to say this. Yes, it's either an M2 or they say we took the M2 and here's the R1, right? Just the mentioning of the M2 chip somehow involved in this headset is what you need for that. I'm going to reword this as m2 chip mentioned is helping power the headset because i i would really expect that it will have its own name because

realistically they're gonna put other things on the chip yeah that are specific to this like right they may just say we're bringing the power of the M2 to the headset. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Because, you know, does it need the same RAM requirement? But what I'm thinking here is, first off, fundamentally, they have to talk about the specs, right? They're going to talk about the specs because they want to talk to developers about how powerful it is. So I think since the M2 is currently their state of the art that that's what they're you know i don't think it's going to be like the a whatever because this is like they want to impress you so they're going to say it's the power of the m2 whether it's

actually the m2 or not they're going to say it because this is you know uh one of the picks we had in here that neither of us chose i think for good reason is like if they will or will not mention competitors in this right and i don't like if they will or will not mention competitors in this right and i don't know if they will mention competitors by name or not but i i do think that they will want to talk about just to a later category in fact but yeah they go ahead they will want to talk about the the power of the headset and I think that they will maybe reference its power compared to other things. Sure, could be.

Like we put a desktop class processor inside of our Mixed Reality headset. Exactly. No one else is doing that. Agreed. If you enjoy this show, and you'd like to get more of it, even this draft episode,

you should subscribe to Upgrade Plus. You get no ads, you get bonus content every week, and you'll get access to the RelayFM members Discord. Go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up. The Discord is awesome around this time of the year.

Everyone's focused on WWDC there. We have channels that are focused on this stuff. And when all of the live recordings are going on during WWDC week, that's where you'll be able to hang out with everyone and talk about as we're recording. If you are subscribed to Upgrade Plus, in the Upgrade Plus segment this week,

we'll talk about some of the things that were on our long list but didn't make it into our draft predictions to help kind of round out the overall picking that me and Jason think might occur during the WWDC press conference keynote. Go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up today, help support the show and get extra content. Thank you if you do. So the other round we are in now, if you do. So the other round we are in now, now other includes Mac OS, watch OS,

TV OS services, and all other potential hardware. It's a huge round. And that said, I'd be surprised if more than a couple of points come out of this whole round. Yes. And I struggled to pick mine from this one.

In fact, in the document we only have four, which would be fine with me if we only pick four here. Yes. I think we were only doing four, right? I think it was going to be five, but I don't care. Let's do four. Let's do four.

Okay. I'm going four. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to swing on this one. Okay. WatchOS now features a widget-like interface. Well, that's a smart choice. I agree. I think I was just doing an interview with somebody for an article they're writing about WWDC in advance

and for mainstream media. And they're like, is there anything else? And I said, I don't know. The watch, Apple Watch is rumored to get a big overhaul. And I'm actually interested in that. I think it'll be quiet for everything else. But so I think this is a good pick. I think that stuff happening on the watch is a good idea.

You know, I think we spoke about it at the time. And if this is the case, like this may be the most, this is going to be the most time they spend on any other platform, right? Like if they've really gone to it and given watchOS a whole rethink, like I think it would be nice to explore that a little bit. That would be my hope. I think of all of the platforms that I use this year, it's the one I would like them to do the most with.

I'm good with iOS. I'm good with iOS, I'm good with macOS, but I think the watch needs its rethink time. And I would really appreciate if they gave it that. I agree. I feel like this is the time.

Well, Mike, there's not a lot here that I think is going to happen, honestly. So i'm just going to go for the glory i'm going to go for the glory oh here he goes everyone's glory time it is get ready are you ready uh-huh mac pro teaser you mad lad okay mac pro teaser i don't know what form nobody knows what form the mac pro teaser will take Maybe it'll just be a knowing glance from John Ternus going, remember that Mac Pro? Do you remember that promise I made?

Still promising. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it'll be, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. You don't get a Mac Pro. That would technically be teasing. There's one under this desk, but you can't use it. You can't see it.

But if the... Yeah, in fact, honestly, if it's Johnny Struji talking about something and next to his desk is a humorously placed Mac Pro that's got a label on it saying secret or something, that's probably a Mac Pro teaser. But I just...

I don't think any of these things are going to happen, so I'm just going to choose that because I do think there's at least a chance that at the developer conference, they will say something about their previous promise for the Mac Pro. Mac Pro teaser. Well, if we're going into Mac land, I'm going to pick the thing

that I don't think belongs here, realistically. But if they're going to do it, they'll probably need to do it here, and that is the 15-inch MacBook Air. All right. It's not going to do it, they'll probably need to do it here, and that is the 15-inch MacBook Air. All right. It's not going to happen. You don't think so? Why not?

Maybe it will. What makes you say it will? I have it on my list of possibles. I just don't think they're going to. I don't think they need to. I don't think it'll get lost in the shuffle. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, they could do it.

I feel like, at most, if they do it, it's going to be like, you know, great things on the Mac, Mac OS, people love the MacBook Air. And in fact, we're proud to say that we're doing a 15-inch version that's going to be available next week. And then, like, they'll move on and it'll be a press release. And, like, but why would you do that if you could wait three weeks and have everybody cover it without covering all the rest of the stuff i don't think it makes sense to just trickle it out um and it doesn't fit the the day it doesn't fit the event the occasion i mean i did the 13 inch like did the m2 mac MacBook Air fit the occasion?

Because they did it last time. Yeah, but they had room last time. They weren't launching a major new platform, is my argument. Well, I was thinking, like, if the hands-on area is happening, right, and the hands-on area includes headsets, and let's imagine the hands-on area includes demos of the headset, which I actually don't think will happen, but let's imagine that it does. Or let's imagine there's, like's some cycle you can just put it on

and just look at it through the thing, right? There's not going to be a lot of them. They're going to need press to do something while they're waiting. Get them to go take pictures of the MacBook Air instead. I don't know. I guess. I'm going to go back to the watch and say smart complications that change based on data. So basically

an upgrade to complications so that they are better and the slots will change or the content in them can change based on status. It's a dream I have. Yeah, I like this. Like I was one of the judges on the Mac Stories Automation April

and one of the winners was a thing called Yes More Events. And the entire premise of it is you have a calendar widget that says No More Events when you don't have any more events that day. And so what the shortcut does is create an event at the end of the day with other information in it that you might find valuable so that it says something that is valuable instead of no more events. And that's a great example. Or if there's a timer running to show it happening, the question would be, do complications matter as much at all if there are widgets? And I don't know the answer to that question, but I'm going to pick it because this is like a glaring hole in the whole concept of complications oh i hate this round um yep it's not good i have a pick i'm just gonna make this pick but then i have a clarifying it's kind of fun though to us right it's kind of fun picking things that you know are just not

going to happen and it's not going to matter because your opponent is also going to pick things that don't happen and that's true that's it's not going to matter because your opponent is also going to pick things that don't happen and don't matter. I'm going to go with a new Apple Silicon chip is introduced. Oh, interesting. But it can't be related to the headset because it's another pick. That's what I was going to say. So should we say

for the Mac at the end of that? Yes, sure. Why not? A new Apple Silicon chip is introduced for the Mac. That's a ridiculous choice. Go ahead. Well, you know what else is ridiculous, Jason? A Mac Pro teaser. But if they tease the Mac Pro, maybe I piggyback with you. Okay.

You know? Maybe. They're like, here's the Mac Pro, and it's coming with our most powerful Mac Apple Silicon chip ever. Mm-hmm. Sure. It's called M27, because that's how long you're going to wait for the Mac Pro. That's 23 years away. Sure. happen you're gonna be really mad if i if i nail a couple

of these other picks and that's how i win uh not really i'll be impressed honestly i don't think i'll be a miracle that'll be a miracle yeah i'll be too impressed of you if you if you manage to win that way um okay I'm gonna we're also like in the there's no evidence that these things are gonna happen yeah but I just wrote about this we talked about it it's been a recurring segment here this is the official podcast of the quad box quad box so I'm gonna pick it apple recently brought the quad box to the tv app i'm gonna say tv os announcement big headlining tv os announcement

multi-view support across the operating system uh apps will have to be right into the api just like they wrote into the uh picture and picture API, although maybe it'll actually use the same thing as the Picture-in-Picture API. But you'll be able to put multiple items in the quad box. It's a dream I have. Jason, I'm going to just make my next pick so I can talk about your pick my pick okay my final pick in the other picks is that tv os is not mentioned during the keynote at all you might get your quad box but you know where you're not gonna find out about it in the keynote the keynote yeah i think you might be right i love i love a not mentioned pick i love a buzz why i mean look love TVOS. I'm the official reviewer on the Connected podcast of TVOS every year.

If they spend any time talking about TVOS, I think they're wasting that time. It is a platform that even if you do something like, say, here's the quad box, all of the services that are the most popular don't use Apple's playing interface anymore. Like, Mac's just dropped it, right? The new Mac's app. There are more and more apps not using the official Apple player than ever. It just feels like it continues going on and on and on.

I just don't see it happening. Yeah, but what if they have a partner? What if they bring up YouTube TV or they bring up ESPN and say, you know, yeah, we implemented this and it's great. It just uses picture-in-picture interface bring up espn and say you know yeah we implemented this and it's great it just uses picture and picture interface and you do this and then you can see our stuff next to apple stuff yay i mean what if imagine if they did that imagine if they did it during this keynote are they gonna yeah i know youtube time like come on gotta talk about

something they gotta talk about something right well i i my next pick was going to be tv os related because why not yeah and now i'm looking at the picks that i thought i was going to pick and i think they're all ridiculous um and so i'm just going to go off the board completely to another random thing and i'm going to say you know what you know what's greater than a Mac Pro teaser? Third-party watch faces. My word, Jason Snell. Third-party watch faces. Boom. Done.

Just watch. Just watch, Mike. Mac Pro teaser. Third-party watch faces. I win the draft by one. That'll be amazing. Honestly, if you do it, I mean, no one's going to be mad. I know. Game-recognized game, right?

I guess I'll have to. All right. Final regular round. Stagecraft. Stagecraft. The reason, you may ask yourself why stagecraft picks. Well, one is if we put these in other, all of our picks would have been stagecraft. Correct.

And so we're going gonna force ourselves to make just two stagecraft picks and i'm gonna go with the gimme the the guaranteed pick of all of the picks that could ever occur during any wwdc craig federighi appearance yeah i know i'm surprised that's even allowed on the list yes it's there nevertheless we keep it going yeah craig fettariki appearance i think that's the best one um i'm you know you can you can i might be proven wrong but i think you can never go wrong with game demos this is my second one they're gonna i think at least have at least one vr game demo yeah i think they have to there was a rumor from mark german about uh hideo kojima being involved in no man's sky that was

absolute hogwash like he's not involved that game at all but no man's sky is a game that was um like hideo kojima has been rumored to be aroundupertino this week so maybe he's going to be doing something for the headset but No Man's Sky which was a game shown off ages ago was coming to Apple because of Apple Silicon. It is yet to arrive but No Man's Sky has a very robust

VR mode so it could be a very easy slot into this. My second and final pick in Stagecraft, Metaverse is not said. Metaverse is not said. Yep.

I think that's pretty good. There might be a joke. If the word appears anywhere in the keynote, you lose this pick. Correct. But that's a pretty good pick. To mention it is basically

acknowledging Facebook and their lead. Right? And I just don't think they're going to do it. I think you're probably right. I think the reason

that this is risky is only that they may be like, you've heard of the metaverse. Well, forget that. Right? The dismissive of it. I don't think it's going to happen. But I think i think you're right okay here's my last stagecraft pick i i i likened i mentioned this earlier yeah just put it out there the way i phrased it is explicit exhortation to watch the

state of the union for os details yep but really what i'm saying is somewhere in this event i feel like they're gonna say we have a whole lot event, I feel like they're going to say, we have a whole lot more OS things to announce. They're in the State of the Union, which we'll post later this afternoon. Something. There will be a little footnote because I feel like this is the kind of event where they're kicking off WWDC, but they're not going to give as much time to the OSs as maybe they would normally. And they're going to be like pointing at the State of the Unions and we made another video that's for boring OS things that only developers care about. Go watch that for more because

it's too packed. So I'm just going to stagecraft. Final round of the draft is the Mac OS. My least favorite of every possible thing. Let's dive into California geography! It's the Mac OS naming round where we each get two potential names

that we can give that may form the macOS version, and there is one point on the line for this. I will just, at this point, publicly make my protest for the existence of this round, because I believe Jason Snell has an advantage over me significantly. It's almost as if, imagine they decided to uh name mac

os after english towns so here's the thing this is why i disagree with you one is i know too much about california and i think that i think that that makes me overthink it because i'm thinking of like like with ventura it was an example where I'm like, oh, Ventura is not that interesting. Like I've been to Ventura County and it was Ventura, right? Because it's like a good name. It's like an interesting name. So I think that's part of the challenge here is I'm overthinking it because I'm thinking about the places. Also, I'm providing you a list of things I think it might be for you to pick from.

Yeah, but I don't know what any of them means, you know? But anyway. You can look it up. You can look them up. Or is your ignorance and just looking at it as a brand name what Apple is also trying to do for people? Because most of Apple's customers don't know the names of these things either, right? So maybe you're better. You're making a good argument?

That doesn't matter. I still don't like the round, but your argument's good. I get it. I'm going to go with with should we do this one each right so like i do one you do one right uh i'm gonna go with what i think may have been my favorite last year because i actually do think it would be a nice name mac os tahoe yes i just like it i just i think it sounds nice my understanding i feel like the little i know about Tahoe is that it's great in the summer and in the winter.

So there's probably some good imagery you could get, right? Because it's got like the lakes and also the mountains. Is that correct? Yep. So that'd be a nice one. I am going to go with...

So the last two have been Monterey and Ventura, right? Both of which are coastal counties. And Apple's never been afraid to pick a complicated name that frustrates everybody who's not in California. So I'm going to pick, with my first pick, Mendocino. I hate it. The way you spell this like not you but the way it is spelled m-e-n-d-o-c-i-n-o no this is terrible i don't like it and you know what my second rica will say mendocino mendocino my second pick see i don't know if i should do

this so like i've made my picks and i was like i went and looked at last year's what i want to pick as my second pick is exactly the same as the second pick i made last time okay so i would end up picking the same two things two years in a row i think i'm just gonna go with my gut and do it because again i just think it's a good name mac os golden gate golden gate's good name it is a good name i do wonder if they would save this for like a year when they're really bridging it oh i've had os but i'm gonna go with mac os golden gate i like tahoe and golden gate i'm going with two names that i just think sound good and i would like although history shown, they will not do that.

Mendocino. Oh, there are still a bunch of good names here. That's why I think it's good that they went to the California names. There's still a bunch of good names here. Mecos Northamptonshire. Hello, mate. This is Mecos Islington. Mecos. This is Mac OS Islington.

Wow, this is a tough one. Can I just say, I love so much that we still have Mac OS Alcatraz on this list, as if they would ever do that. But we also have Mac OS Death Valley on this list, which you really would probably not name an operating system after, but it's on the list, because why not i'm gonna go with mammoth mecha was mammoth lakes is a is a volcanic area and a ski resort and a summer destination uh and it's a fun name and it's an actual word that people know and so mecha was mammoth why not you know i wondered about mammoth but i mean I don't think they would care about this, but I just feel like Mastodon has really wrapped up

all of that branding for now, but they probably don't care about that, right? But they would just have mountains and snow and stuff. Mammoth, I could see, and I would like. Like Mac OS Mammoth is a name that I would enjoy. I would be so mad if they called it Mendocino because I just don't like that at all. It's Bendocino. There you go. Well be so mad if they called it Mendocino because I just don't like that. It's Bendocino.

There you go. Well, I'm going to call it Mendocino. Indochino. That's what I'm going to call it. Mac OS Cappuccino. And it doesn't work for me. But they work with Mavericks. So the company that chose Mavericks

may choose literally anything because Mavericks just sounded bad. Mac OS Mavericks. The fact that it has an S on the end just did not work. And also I'll say as a Californian, nobody had ever heard of that place. What was it? A beach? It was like a specific

beach, right? Yeah, it was like a surf area. Mm-hmm. No. That's the draft. That's it draft that's it we did it all the picks are out there all that's left is the scoring

which will happen the scoring will occur on the ground in which the picks will have come true I don't know what I'm basically saying which I'm super saying it will be at Apple Park next week.

Yeah, yeah. Which I'm super pumped for. Very excited to see a bunch of friends I haven't seen in a long time. Long time. And so we're looking forward to being in California, soaking up the sun

and being inside of Apple Park, watching the keynote along with my friend Jason Snell. If you want to send us your feedback, follow up, and questions, you can go to upgradefeedback.com. If you have things you want us to talk about in the keynote, you can send them in there. I will

pre-warn people that if I do actually make it to the keynote, I will be very excited to talk about my keynote experience. So just be aware of that. We're going to be talking obviously about things, but I will be a little excited bunny and we'll want to talk about my keynote experience so just be aware of that that like we're going to be talking obviously about things but i will be a little excited bunny and we'll want to talk about how happy i am to have achieved a 15 year goal uh but in the meantime and i'm sure during wwc itself you'll be wanting to keep locked to sixcolors.com to check out jason's work you

can also hear jason over at the incomparable.com and here on RelayFM. You can listen to me and my shows on RelayFM as well and check out my work at CortexBrand.com. You can find us on Mastodon. Jason is at Jsnell on Zeppelin.Flights. I am at iMike on Mike.Social. And you can find the show is at Upgrade on RelayFM.Social where you can watch video clips

along with our TikTok and Instagram accounts, where we are at UpgradeRelay on both. Thank you to our members and supporters of Upgrade Plus. Thank you to NomNom and DarkNoise for their support of this week's episode. And most importantly, thank you for listening. We will speak to you after the WWDC keynote. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. See you next week, Mike.