Upgrade - 462: Time Moves the Sun

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

WWDC 2023 has arrived and Jason and Myke react to the keynote announcements, live from a secluded location at Apple Park! Topics are just what you'd guess: Apple Vision Pro, new Mac hardware (!), and new OS features.

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 462 recorded live from apple park this episode is brought to you by squarespace fitbod and notion my name is mike hurley I'm joined, sitting right next to me, by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason. Ladies and gentlemen, Mike Hurley told me earlier today, and I can report this exclusively here on Upgrade, that this is one of the greatest days of his life. It is indeed. I made it. I have dealt with lots of jokes at the expense of my friends about if I would make it to

the keynote today, and I'm happy to report I made it to the keynote today. Yeah, you were right behind me. I was right behind you. We were in the sun. There's a very narrow part of the area. We were in the sun for a short period of time. Yes, and then the sun went away behind me. We actually had really good seats for that reason.

So there was tons of seats outside, half under a canopy, and then some kind of sitting behind, right? Like kind of in towards the building. of like um like it kind of in towards the building and we were right on the edge so at first it was sun there so no one was sitting there so like all right we'll sit there but then as the sun went away because the time because time moves the sun that's how that works it's not it is no that's how it works and then we were in shade it was lovely and we had great seats we did did. For quite an incredible time. Quite a show.

Yeah. So we're just going to get through what we're going to get through so we can start talking about all the announcements of today. So keynote was incredible. I had a wonderful time. It was amazing to watch it. We got to go to the Steve Jobs Theater. I went there for the first time.

Just amazing. I'm going to take some time to process all of this. I think it's going to... It's a big day. It's got to settle in for me. Big day for Mike. We have some new merch available. If you go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com,

you will find a selection of designs to celebrate the Summer of Fun, which is kind of going to start next week because we're going to record in person in your garden. Indeed. Very summery. But we brought back a bunch of Summer of Fun designs, including a brand new design,

which is the Dongletown Surf Shop. Do you want to tell the Australians about that? You walk down to the beach there in Dongletown, and there's Thunderbolt Dock is right there. And Thunderbolt Dock, as you may know, is a world-famous surf shop. So the Thunderbolt Dock Surf Shop tee is now available, along with a couple of classics and more fun.

And just for the next couple of weeks. So get in there. Do not miss it. Buy many. Buy them soon. UpgradeYourWardrobe.com. Now we move into draft results. Yes.

So we actually did some adjudication. Yes, at a quiet ceremony adjacent to this podcast studio at Apple Park. Mike and I got together, had a discussion. Yep. Yes, at the quiet ceremony adjacent to this podcast studio at Apple Park, Mike and I got together, had a discussion, and consulted with Stephen Hackett on a key feature. And we've decided and have shaken hands on it that the final score was 10-10 with Mike winning on the tiebreaker because the keynote was about two hours and five minutes long. Yes. We were getting to an hour and 56 and

i'm like oh the tiebreaker is going to me no yeah yeah because they were like now let's talk about the technology and i'm like well i'm good at about 150 i thought oh no we've gone it's it's not going to happen now so we'll probably go through another time the actual scoring maybe because again there's a ton to do today uh but i'm happy with that 10 10 you well the key thing to know about this is we did the other category i went into the other category thinking firmly that there would be no mac stuff announced here um mere days after we recorded that it became clear that mac stuff would be announced here and that was that was pretty much all she wrote yep yeah take it in yeah i i'm happy to win so i'm like keeping the draft and keeping the draft dream alive yes i reckon there's probably only one more event this year

probably so i mean you never know but probably it feels like maybe so well who knows actually because this is the thing that i'm i think i I'm most surprised about. We're going to talk about in depth, the reality. No, wait, it's not. It's called Apple vision. Apple vision pro. It's a classic,

a name from history brought back, but the timing of it is interesting to me. I guess we'll hear more about in September, but we might not. We might not. It might be, it might wait until like December maybe, or early in the year,

depending on when it's available. Yeah. Which is kind of fascinating. All right. But we need to get into Apple Vision Pro. Let me take our first break, and we'll start breaking it down. All right. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace,

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now, I've been using Squarespace. It's where I go to set up my websites and it's where you should go to look for yours. Go to squarespace.com upgrade and you can sign up for a free trial with no credit card required. Then when you're ready to launch, use the offer code upgrade to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or or domain that is squarespace.com upgrade and then when you sign up use the offer code upgrade to get 10 of your first purchase and show your support for the show our thanks to squarespace for the support of this show and all of relay fm i maybe have never felt less prepared for a show than i feel right now yeah we um two things first off we last night we're talking about this and there comes a moment when those of us who enjoy preparing for podcasts or anything else in life realize there's literally nothing more you can do because we don't know the

answers until 10 a.m on monday And so you can't prepare in advance. You really can't. And then secondarily, we've been running around Apple Park all day, whereas normally you are watching from somewhere and watching the keynote, and then afterward you do some diligent work and I'm running around and don't know what's going on.

And then you tell me. So what's going on? My biggest thing, and I have no doubt, because the Upgradians have been listening to the show forever, they know our stories. I decided today to not take notes during the keynote. I wanted to sit and just watch it and enjoy it and be around all my friends and have that experience

rather than sitting there as I would normally do and taking all my notes. So we're going a little bit more off the dome today. But I thought it would be best to start by talking about Apple Vision Pro. Yes. Straight up the name. Good name. Good name.

Good name. I looked, and I don't think we ever predicted it, although I think maybe I saw or participated in a conversation somewhere where it came up as a list of possible names. Yeah. Because somebody mentioned, because Apple Vision, at one point there was a monitor called Apple Vision. I think in the early Power Mac era, Apple had a branded monitor called Apple Vision. So name floating out there.

I like it. I think it's a better name than any of the other names that were rumored about it. I think it's actually a very good name. And is it Vision OS? It is Vision OS. Also a good name. Reality or XR or VR or AR.

Got to hand it to the marketing team there. Thumbs us up. And also how interesting it is that, I mean, I do wonder if they were trying to lead people off this. Because there are a lot of trademarks, right? I think at one point you're doing it to cover all your bases. And then at another point you keep it going. Because what you really want to do is um not give it away and also as we say like who knows when this part is actually decided it's like one of the least important things in the overall idea of the

create in the presentation product does not come out until 2024 there are no boxes right there's no there's no story here there's no developer. There's literally a price and next year and that's it. So they can call it, I mean, honestly they could have called it anything. I think there's going to be more of a developer story over the next couple of days. Because they gave some basic kind of outlines of

these are using the same tools and this is stuff you know. And I think one of the presenters did say that there would be more this week and more this year. I expect the state is for context because it's about not being prepared. So we watched the keynote, went to the hands-on area. I went and got a coffee, and then we came straight to record. And you also had a briefing in that time when I was grabbing a drink.

and you also had a briefing in that time when I was grabbing a drink. And so we are currently counter-programming the State of the Union, which I have no doubt they're talking about in the State of the Union and I'm sure that there will be a bajillion sessions. Sure. Because it's what people want to know.

I mean more that there was no sort of like how do developers get their hands on the hardware, which maybe that story will happen too. But the point is this product is not, like we got a lot of products today that we'll talk about later, where it seemed like they were never gonna come out or they were not gonna come out for a very long time.

And then they're like, oh yeah, next week it'll be there. This was not that, right? This is so far out there and this is a unique chance where Apple has a brand new product that they can pre-announce it. They can lay all the groundwork they want in whatever way they want. And they don't have to,

I mean, literally they could have changed other than recording the videos. Like the night before they recorded the videos for this, they could have changed the name if they wanted to. So they had that freedom that they don't usually have. But they chose a great name. I think it's a good name. Yeah.

We talk about the hardware a ton, obviously, right? But the biggest thing is the screen on the front. The eyesight. Is that what it is? That's called eyesight, right? It seemed before today like an impossible thing to get to look right. But in all of the imagery, and again, neither of us have actually seen, I've seen the hardware, but not on.

Or like just playing with never eyes. Right. From the photos, from the videos, they've nailed that, and that is ingenious. I want to give some credit to Mark Gurman, who kept by this when everybody else was like, this seems unreasonable. Yep. And we were talking about this again last night when we were hanging out. I want to give some credit to Mark Gurman, who kept by this when everybody else was like, this seems unreasonable.

And we were talking about this again last night when we were hanging out. I keep thinking, and I kept thinking in this last week, that Apple, I really believe that all those stories about the debate about does headset technology, VR and AR, separate you from the real world and separate you from people. And if you look at this presentation, you can see the care that Apple took every step of the way, including in the hardware, to make a product that is harder, a lot harder to accuse of not caring about human interaction

and not caring about cutting people off from the world and the screen is a part of that story the fact that they made it lenticular lens which is if you ever bought like a baseball card or a collector's card of some kind where it's got the funny kind of or a dvd even where there's it's got the funny ridges so that when you move it it looks like the person is moving or they're in 3d that is what lenticular is and that's what the funny ridges so that when you move it, it looks like the person is moving or they're in 3D. That is what lenticular is. And that's what the screen is. And the idea there is if you're to their left, it's like you're looking in from the left.

And if you're to their right, it's like you're looking in from the right. So it's giving this illusion of depth that furthers the idea that this person, you're actually sort of seeing through. Even though there's hardware in the way, it's like you're seeing through ski goggles or something to their eyes. Yeah, that's what it looks like. And that's the effect that they want. And the idea that it also serves, let's talk about Google Glass for a second.

One of the big criticisms of Google Glass was like, oh, they may be videoing me. They may be taking pictures of me. And they had a whole story here, which is first off, if you see see the eyes they're looking at you if you don't see that they can't see you um they also then had the idea that you could be in this environment but then if somebody walks up to you you see them which is an incredible moment everybody was like gasping yeah and so you ladies are the size of a mountain right like it's Like she was looking out on

a vista of mountains or something like that. And then a colleague comes and sits down or a friend sits down and they're just sitting next to the mountain. So you end up with this scenario and then the privacy angle which I thought was so good. It's a very typical Apple but I thought it was really well done. The idea that

you have all these cameras that are looking out over your house. Well, where does that camera data go? And the answer is nowhere. We're not going to let it go anywhere. And when you see people, where does that go? And the answer is nowhere. We're not going to let that go anywhere. And that's part of the story too.

But fundamentally, I think Apple is trying to approach this product from the most humane standpoint possible, which is you should be able to see your surroundings when you want to and people should know what you're doing and it shouldn't cut you off unless you totally want to be cut off I did like that moment where they're on an airplane it's like goodbye yeah that was great but but even on an airplane I'd kind of like to know if somebody's trying to get my attention right people come up to you yeah exactly so I think that they did a really good job of telling that story which I was have to say, last night when we were talking about it,

I felt like if I would bet anything, it would have been that they would have done that. And I think the story started immediately with Tim Cook and the way they're positioning this product. This is an AR product. That is what this is. It looks like a VR product. It will work like a VR product if you want.

It will. But for Apple, this is an ar product they leaned into augmented reality yeah the majority of the demos are looking into an environment every context was you're going to start in the real world yes you start the product in the real world you start any experience in the real world and then they would say or you know you can watch a movie in your house or you can watch it on Mount Hood or in space or whatever. Right. Like, OK, that's great. But they always start with, you know, you're working in your office and somebody comes up to you or you can turn that dial. You can turn that digital crown dial and turn your back on the world.

But but you have to choose to exit the world. And that, again, without changing the hardware or software at all, you could make claims that this is a VR product that has AR. You could do that because it will do that. We didn't even see any games that are pure VR experiences, which is like the number one application for VR. One of the presenters said during that part, this is just the start of the gaming story for Vision Pro. And I feel like that was like, hey, yes, we have only shown you someone playing a PlayStation

with a PlayStation controller, which is not gaming for this device realistically. So it feels extremely intentional to me that they really didn't want to show cut-off experiences that weren't influenced by the real world. Because it was all like no fitness demo. And like I turned to one underscore about this and he was surprised maybe the second time. Yeah. Right? Maybe they'll show games then

maybe they'll show fitness then when maybe people have had more time to sit on it. They will certainly have at least one more opportunity to introduce the world to this product. This is step one. And I think that they've held some things back, not even necessarily for technical reasons,

but because they want to tell this very particular message about what this product represents. And it is connected to reality, not turning your back on reality. Spatial computing. That's the term that we're going to be very used to hearing. That's the new term. That's what this is.

And it's, you know, I was joking about the song Connected, but I think we're here. It's like the age of skeuomorphism is back, but it's different now. But the UI design has a tactility to it. It looks like it's real, like it's physical. Things laid on top of each other, like even the app icons. There's like a distance between the background and the foreground.

There was a lot of that going on. And this idea of, we saw it, right? Like you'd open an app and your other app would go to the left and you'd look over there and you would be able to see your apps and like it's all kind of physically around you. That's what this is they're calling the spatial computing device like that's what vision os is going to be wearable spatial computing this is it's interesting right because i think a lot of the stuff has been maybe sort of

second rate like it's a yeah it's a game machine or it's a, it's a using a phone processor or it's tethered to a, um, tethered to a game console, right? In the case of the PSVR and Apple strength is saying, this is another mobile device. This is a wearable spatial computer. Apple understands computers. They understand technology. They understand wearables. So what Apple wants you to do is think of this product in terms of Apple's strengths. And I think that that's super smart.

I think that them spending time on having an M2 as well as a custom chip in order to do all of the real-time processing shows you that that's how you want this to feel now i will also admit that as they kept saying that um the you know that part of this product i started to think the more they say this is a computer and it's a spatial computer and it's using apple's prowess i thought every time they do that, the price goes up. Yes. Right? What did they call it? The most advanced computer they've ever made or something like that? It was the most advanced personal electronic device ever in the world ever. I mean, and when they showed just all of the sensors, because powered by the R1 chip, which

is in combination with the M2 chip, I was kind of like, yeah, you know, I can see that. This looks like it's doing just an obscene amount of work. 12 cameras, 5 sensors, 6 microphones, 2 4K displays, plus the external display. And, you know, this is what we all sort of were expecting, which is something that is going to max out what's possible because they want to show, I really believe this, they want to show this technology and this entire concept of what a device can be in the best light possible, rather than it being something that's sort of like

broken, but affordable. They want to show it first and foremost as amazing. And then they'll deal with making it affordable down the road. In fact, at several points, they did say, this is the closest you'll ever get to Apple talking about future products, is this is the first step. They said that several times. It's clear in the name. Why is Pro in the name? Like when there's no other thing? It's just this?

It's just the beginning. Tim Cook says at one point it's a first step. But I will say, every time they talked about the technological prowess, But I will say, every time they talked about the technological prowess, I did think less and less likely that they were going to be a price that was surprising us in a positive way. And so when they dropped the price at $34.99, which is $500 more than anybody expected it to be, even in the highest thing.

I love the buildup to that where he listed all of the things inside of it. Like, here we go. Yeah, right. Where it's like well look but you're getting these cameras and these things and all that and all that and you end up with this price now that that's an incredibly expensive thing i will say that the beauty of being in the reality distortion field as you and i were today is you have the moment where they say 34.99 and you're like i don't care what it costs. Just give it to me now. I feel when they said that, I was like, ooh, because it was more.

But having watched that presentation, I was kind of like, yeah, you know, I think I can see why. And I kind of agree to do it this way. I think they justified it. I think that there are going to be lots of people who are going to say it's too expensive. Quite rightly. And they're going to say a lot of people won't buy it, which we've heard that even Apple actually behind the scenes thinks

that it's going to be a relatively low volume product. It's step one. But they're producing it in low volume. It's US only to begin with. Yeah, I think exactly. I think, though, it will be harder. You can still make the case because anybody can have a hot take. But I think it will be harder to make the case that the price is unjustified.

Because I think Apple has, one of the things they had to do today was say, here's why it's like this. It's because we spared no expense and we did all these things and we did this for a reason. And so I think it's a perfectly reasonable analysis for somebody to say, at that price, they're not going to sell any of it. It's going to be extremely limited and they're going to need to do better. And I'm, I'm, I would bet that behind the scenes people at Apple would say, well, of course, this is the first step. We, we, we're going to start here and set the bar. But I think I would not agree with anybody who said, look at this thing. I can't believe they priced it the way they did because that's a different argument, right? It's not the, can it sell at that price?

It's, is there enough technology in that product for you to understand that price? And on that level, yes, I do. I get why it costs what it costs, even though I also kind of blanch at it and say, you know, because, and that'll be part of the developer question too. Developers will have to say is, how long am I going to have to do work on this platform before I'll be able to make money? Because if they're going to be only, you know, a few hundred thousand of these sold in the first year,

I'm going to have to, you know, Apple's going to be asking them to make an investment in the long haul in hope of that future return in two or three or four years or five or longer, right? You know, this is one of the things i was talking with our friend mike sergeant on clockwise we're both going to be on clockwise today today as well so check out relay fm uh clockwise and we both looked at each other and we were thinking the same thing and he said maybe it's because i'm here and i'm excited about

this but i feel like i just watched the iphone keynote from 2007 i want to feel that way that's because that's exciting for me right but i truly feel like i've seen something special today like even so we went to the steve jobs theater and upstairs they had the max we'll talk about the max in a bit downstairs they had just the hardware on like a plinth. And I took some photos, and the photos looked like the photos from Macworld 2007, where it's just here's the hardware suspended, and there are just too many people to count taking photos. Right.

Right. And I guess the thing about the 2007 one, there wasn't cameras as such. It was just people looking because there was no iPhone to take the thing about the 2007 one, there wasn't cameras as such. It was just people looking because there was no iPhone to take the photo of the iPhone. Right, there were people there with traditional cameras, but it was mostly just stereo. Everybody today was just taking a picture, right? And there is, I think, something about this.

I mean, I believe in this general sense of technology anyway. I have for a while. I think that there is something interesting here in AR and VR. But what they showed today, the package that they put together of what this thing does, the level of production for the videos, the detail that they went into,

it feels to me like we may look back on this one in 10 years and be like, oh man, that was... I mean, that's what they're shooting for. Right. I think this is going to be a historic day one way or another. Yes. I don't think there's going to be any in between either. This is going to be the beginning of something big, which Apple thinks it is, or it's not at which point we're going to be like, wow, Apple really thought there was going to be something there. But, um,

so the moments where I, there were a few moments where the magic kind of fell apart for me. Okay. Where in the attempt to show how useful this thing is, because one of the challenges is, how is this useful? Why would you use it? It's trying to explain, I think, the fundamental question. Everybody I talk to when I say Apple's doing a headset, they ask, well, why? Why?

Why? Why? Why would I do it? Why would I use it? Why would I buy one? And they made some very good points. When they showed Microsoft Office apps running, Dan Morin was sitting next to me and he laughed out loud. And I thought, well, it is kind of like when you go to Microsoft. But the place where it lost me, and I think there's a reason for it. One of the places that it lost me was in the, we created this amazing 3D photo thing so that when your child's having its birthday party, you can wear a headset and take 3D images of your child doing it. And there were a few other things that were kind of like that where you're like, well, you could do that, but why?

Now, I will make a fearless prediction here, which is that 3D camera technology is coming to the iPhone. It has to. Because how would you not? Because that's what you want to do is take 3D video and photos on your iPhone and then watch them on the Vision Pro. The idea about having a 3D camera on the thing

is smart. You can take pictures when you have it on. A thing happens, you take a photo. Sure. But there was a dystopian moment of, here's the birthday party, which means you are wearing this thing at the birthday party. Like, that is odd.

And I know why they did it, because clearly there are several shots in this thing where people are walking around doing stuff in the real world. And that is sending the message that this is not a thing that you put on your head and then you stay still and don't interact with the real world. They want people to think this is mixed reality. But that went a little too far. And I think that there were a few other moments like that that looked to me like trying a little too hard to sell. And the truth is that some of these things

won't be the reasons people want it, and then others will be, and they're taking their shot. But there are definitely a few moments where I thought, well, it's cool that it does this, but there are lots of other ways to do this. I do appreciate that and applaud them for the idea that they have a vision of extended workspaces, whether you're at work or traveling, where, you know, that moment, the moment that Federico, I know, just lost it was because he was sitting right behind me right next to you. And Dan reacted this way, too.

It was very funny. The crowd really reacted was when you put the Mac laptop down on the table and the screen goes out and a giant screen appears floating above it. That is ridiculous. It's just super cool. There's no reason to do it that way, but I just love they did it that way.

That's right. Just look at your Mac and then there's a huge screen in front of you. And then what I really liked, I'm very keen to know if they're going to allow you to have multiple Mac screens that you could, right? But what they did do, which like you've got your Mac and your Vision OS apps on either side, and they can all interact with each other.

Which can be iPhone and iPad apps. Yeah, which is, I mean, that will work fantastically. The vision here is that instead of having to have a bunch of big displays, you can have a bunch of virtual displays. And you can do that at your office. You could do that at a hotel room. You can do that wherever. And I think that that's really interesting. We haven't even talked about the interaction model,

which I think is also very interesting. They're scanning your eyes. They're doing eye tracking. That's good for foveated rendering where they can focus the highest resolution stuff, which is very clever. But also, it knows where you look. By the way, that was a great part of the privacy thing.

Because imagine TikTok. I don't like TikTok because it knows when I stop on a video for five seconds. Imagine if TikTok knew exactly what images on the video drew your attention. They're reading your mind. It's gross. And they're like, no, we don't do that. There's a totally different system. I appreciated that. But they also showed people curled up on a couch. And they're reading your mind. It's gross. And they're like, no, we don't do that. There's a totally different system. I appreciated that.

But they also showed people curled up on a couch and they're looking at stuff. And they're just doing very subtle gestures with their hands because they're doing a click. It knows where you're looking and you're making some very limited gestures. There's a scroll gesture and a click gesture and a pinch to zoom gesture and they're very simple.

And I like how that looks how it works in practice we'll have to see I don't know how comfortable it's going to be so like if I feel like the gestures still looked more than an iPhone you know if you're scoring through an iPhone you score off your iPhone you're just doing with your thumb right there was a lot of like movement of the hand and i and i'm not convinced about the the like how that will feel to do um but what i like is that that you have the ability to connect peripherals to the to the thing you can use a trackpad too because basically i'm thinking if i'm working i would prefer a keyboard and trackpad even the gaming scenario they went they went to

it right away right which is look if you want to play a game here's a gamepad yeah but that's yes i'm i'm i liked it in that sense in that sense that it's like you're not limited here but we're going to start you with so that was playing a game on a fake screen. I still remain intrigued and unconvinced about full VR gaming with just hand tracking. And so we'll see how that goes. And eye tracking, but yes. Yeah, but like the PlayStation VR 2 has eye tracking.

And it's one of the things people like about it a lot, but they still have the controllers because you need buttons for all of these games. It might be, and it's one of the things people like about it a lot, but they still have the controllers because you need buttons for all of these games. It might be, and as it should be, because VR needs to break out of that model anyway, because at the moment a lot of VR games are just the same, and so this hand tracking, eye tracking combo might make some developers kind of pull out of their comfort zones,

but realistically people are going to want Beat Saber on this. And maybe they could do hand tracking Beat Saber. I don't know. But, you know, there are going to be things like that. Pick up your special Bluetooth Saber accessory at the Apple Store. But if that's what they do, I think that's fine. Like if they ultimately end up working with a company to create an MFI hand controller, I think that so we'll see yeah uh we do

need to move on i do just want to touch on one last thing which is the word persona for the 3d thing digital persona yes i didn't want to talk about sold on that term it doesn't feel i feel like they almost didn't want to call it an avatar. I feel like that was what you would want to call it, but they can't. So they called it, well, they could. A persona. So they called it the digital persona. That's going to be interesting. I thought it looked incredibly clever,

but the truth is you are literally having your face 3D scanned, and then a digital persona version of you is created. I feel like there's going to be some weird stuff. I feel like that is going to be, the... I feel like that is going to be... The demo that they showed, it looked very 1.0. Which is what it is. And I can imagine that will only get better.

But just the fact that if they're able to do that and it works the way it does in that keynote, that is unbelievable that they're able to do that from the cameras on this device. Because there's no camera actually looking at you. And I know it's like you scan your face and then it's using movement to try and work out what's going on.

Yeah, to match what your actual expression is. I'm intrigued what that's going to be like. I feel like that's going to be the thing that's going to see the most progression of the time. And I think that there's a real question about what you want your digital persona to represent because in this, especially because you're talking about work and FaceTimes and things like that, you want it to represent you. But there's also not only do you not necessarily want it to represent exactly you, but you may want it to represent you in a particular different state.

have a friend who shall remain nameless who every time we do a zoom call she uses the zoom lipstick and these zoom eyebrows because she doesn't want to be represented as she is in the moment she wants to be represented augmented in a way and zoom lets you do that which is great it's amazing but like that's those are some of my questions for this persona is what if i have different personas in different places or i want my persona to not look like i actually look um and that was not the focus of this which is fine and it is a 1.0 but i think that it's interesting and also i will say one way you get out of the uncanny valley is to make the persona less like you. And so people may actually prefer to be more Memoji-like. And there may be, like we don't know, right?

There may be the opposite. And there probably is the ability to just be Memoji. The option of just saying, just make me, I want to be an elephant or whatever. Because you can do it on FaceTime calls now. Exactly. Why would you not also be able to do it there? But you also have, and realistically, if you're going to show one of them today, you'd show this one. Because it is fascinating from a technological perspective.

Memoji, we know what that means. How do you do, because here what they were doing was solving the problem of, and we all thought it, because they didn't show it until later. Which is, isn't it great? You're having a FaceTime conversation. It's like, well, what are they seeing? Because you have this thing on your face and you don't have a camera pointed at you and as they said if you did it you would have this thing on your face so how do they do that and then when they show it you're like actually you're kind of relieved right because it's like oh it's not like a picture of my up my nose or something like that it looks like me

kind of and that was the that was the right answer to give here but there's got to be more to dig into there speaking of more to dig into we are obviously going to spend weeks talking about this thing months and there's there will be much more information like i mean just like over the next few weeks i think there is going i would imagine the show will be pretty much dominated by talking about this yeah um So we'll pause it today because there's more to talk about. There is more. But this episode is brought to you in part by Notion. Project management tools are supposed to help you move faster and stay organized.

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We're going to, I think, lightning round the operating systems. All right, let's do it. So just as an overall thought, if this WWDC stopped before Vision Pro, that's a good WWDC. Yeah, I agree. I felt like there was a lot here, way more than expected. Yeah.

Like when they started with, hey, we've got some updates to the phone app. I'm like, wait, what? I wasn't expecting this. And there was just some really interesting stuff. And you could see the progression in some of these things in the new AirDrop feature, which is NameDrop, which is a fantastic name.

It took me two minutes. I was like, oh, I get it, NameDrop. I'm looking at the poster contact thing. This seems to all be coalescing from lock screens. Exactly. These are a lot of features that came from lock screens that are moving on. I think the idea that you...

And it's also coalescing from our custom messages images, right? Like you set a message. You set an image for yourself, and that's what your friends see. I like it. If I call someone, and I assume if I'm not in their phone book, they will now get the image of me and my name.

That's how I understood that to be. I'm not sure if that happens if you're not in their phone book. Right. Okay. You may have to add them as a contact. And you can also, because remember, it's somebody else sending you something, right? So they may be, like, wanting to protect you from bad photos that are being pranked to you. But if it's in your contacts and then they have the control at that point, you allow them in and now you put on a Santa hat or something because it's Christmas time

and then call me and I'll see that. And the whole contact card too is nicer. It's not me choosing how to represent you. You get to choose how you represent yourself. And that means everybody who calls you, who's in your contacts has this, unless you say, I don't want to use that, they have their own custom thing that's very clever.

I love the idea that, and just follow me here. Remember visual voicemail? That was like one of those key features in the original iPhone thing. Well, with iOS 17, your phone rings and you want to send it to voicemail. You tap send to voicemail. And what happens is they don't go to voicemail. Your phone answers, plays your voicemail message, beeps, begins recording and transcribing what they say shows it on the screen

and at any point if you want to pick it up you tap the button and say oh no i'm actually here like back when we had like answering machines back 20 years ago that'll and that's all happening on device there's no carrier support required it's all just happening on your iPhone. So smart. And how many times have, I can't, I don't know about you. I, I am constantly getting phone calls where I'm like, I don't know what that is. I sent it to voicemail. And then I look at the voicemail transcription and I think, Oh, I should have answered it. And this solves that problem. It's like, I've, I've absolutely had that problem and it totally solves it. So I'm assuming that that kind of dictation is being done with the same new tech that's in the dictation and the keyboard where Apple dropped that they are using a transformer machine learning model, which is the transformer is the T in GPT. So they are adopting this stuff for autocorrect for this new transcription stuff that was a big surprise to me

that they just hey we're using transformer models now too and like it looked like a thing that i've really wished from autocorrect for a while is more accurate for sentence changing that like right if i type something out and there's clearly a word the tense is incorrect for the rest of the sentence. Or I've left maybe an apostrophe out. But then when the rest of the sentence, you know I actually meant to say where rather than where. Right. And you could now go back in and change that for me. Word two seemed to be one of these two things when you typed it.

But now that I've gotten to the end of the sentence, I know which one it is, right? And so I'm really, one, I just want, I always want autocorrect to be better because I rely on it and make so many mistakes. And now it's going to be doing autocorrection that's personal on device for you, which is so good, right? Because one of the big failings in autocorrect lately is that they've been using the masses of humanity

and the way that they write things, which is, I mean, it's nice. It's better maybe than nothing, but nothing's going to be better than the way you write. Yeah, and that's how, you know, the stories back in the day of like, there would be basically what felt like these bugs in everyone's phones

where some kind of spelling error would just propagate. It would just get in there. And there were times they had to put out operating system updates to change a spelling mistake. Hats off to Craig Federighi for actually saying ducking. That got a big laugh and was a big surprise. So good, so good. So I think that's really great, and that voicemail feature is brilliant

because it serves a need. I didn't think new phone app features was on my bingo card. But, yeah, essentially being able to build build a lock screen like thing for your contact. So when you call your friends or family, they see you represented as you want. That's such a cool, clever idea. I got two things in messages that I wanted so bad and gave up on wishing for. All emoji as stickers and emoji as tap backs yes yes that's the i'm fascinated by and i actually wonder how much of this has to do with why do you choose the sticker

pipeline for this instead of the tap back pipeline um because i thought they would always just eventually add emoji to tap backs and that's not what they did they added stickers to tap backs and they added all emoji to stickers same result yeah i think they're so proud of that object occlusion thing where you can pull someone out and now rest in peace sticker drop an amazing app that was an iMessage app it's been Sherlock now because apple now let you add stickers and it's so much easier to do because and also you can make animated ones from live photos I'm very excited about these features but yeah it is odd that they didn't just but to be fair this kind of just feels like a it wouldn't it be good if we had stickers in tap backs to next night we're just going to move forward and just like bring it all to in all

together and I'm very excited about this yeah I think if if you had to choose you would choose this over just emoji picking because this is more flexible it's anything as a tap back yeah i love that and i can imagine that it kind of started and it's like oh let's just do the whole thing because if we do this now are we going to end up doing this later on like adding stickers to tap let's just make emoji stickers stickers tap back and i just like that i could use emoji and stickers i've wanted that since the beginning of the stickers right it's just like i like this use emoji as stickers. I've wanted that since the beginning of the stickers. It's just like I like this, but sometimes I just want to have an emoji. And now they're all there.

They're all there. And I'm very excited about that. Let's talk about standby for on iOS. Oh, yeah. It's an interesting feature. What I liked about this feature, this is the, you know, you put your phone in landscape, uses the always-on display, and you can show clock or widget and stuff.

It's like nightstand on the Apple Watch. The clock images that they use were beautiful. Like, that looks kind of like old-school alarm clock vibes. And you can choose. Yeah, I'm very excited about the way that looks.

And I don't know if you caught it, but if you use different MagSafe chargers in different places, since the MagSafe chargers all have their own unique ID, your settings stay the same. That is provided that you're using, I assume, a MagSafe charger

and not a magnetic wireless charger, right? No, I believe it's MagSafe. It's got to be MagSafe. Although, I don't know. I mean, it depends on what the Qi standard is and if there's an ID number that gets passed when you do that. I think that might be a MagSafe thing. So it may just be Apple, but the idea there is that if you've got a Mag id number that gets passed when you do that i think that might be a magsafe so it may just be apple but the idea there is that if you've got a magsafe

in the kitchen and a magsafe in the bedroom and you want them to behave differently in the two different places they will yeah so this standby and uh facetime on tv os well let me tell you this is all leading towards the home part of the screen this is all leading toward a HomePod with a screen. This is all leading toward HomePod with a screen and Apple TV with a camera. Both of those things. The moment that they announced the stand

feature, Dan Morin and I who both written extensively about smart assistants in the kitchen and things like that, we both just looked at each other immediately. When they started going into the details of like oh and you can scroll down and there are witches and then you can and the moment the real clarity moment was and then you can ask siri things and it will show them to you on the screen it's like well they've built it

now they've literally built a smart assistant and no longer need to say hey it's just yeah exactly um you know the software now completely exists To build a standalone smart assistant That can live in your kitchen Multiple timers That live in a magical time Like a medical age or something That was very funny

Well, I hear the time makes the sun go around That's what I heard I heard about that today Interactive widgets This is a thing that I feel like I know exists now But i have no idea about what is possible so i can tell you um oh good the idea is yeah see this is good this is good while you were having coffee um interactive widgets are meant to be uh limited i think

calculator widget sorry james it's not. Um, but there are some fundamental things that you can do. So like they showed the flash card. So I think the idea of toggling informational states is probably in there. I'm not a hundred percent on that, but the idea that if you've got a widget that's got kind of like two frames, you could go back and forth between them, uh, because that's sort of what's implied by the flash card thing.

And then the idea that you can, very simple things like check a box. and forth between them because that's sort of what's implied by the flash card thing and then the idea that you can um very simple things like check a box so check off a reminder that's the kind of stuff that's intended here is very simple interactions for very basic things um which is great with a widget from your internet to do play to-do, play a pause or song or a podcast. Like the thing that I'm excited about, right, like I use Timery and now I'd be able to start and stop a timer without ever opening it. Right, because the widget will just

start and stop it. Because there's no text entry necessarily required and if you set it up that way and so that's going to be fantastic. Maybe Dice by Peacock could be interactive. Yeah, me and James were actually talking about this beforehand, and I said to him that you're probably more likely to have that, right? Where it's like you can press and you'll get the app will just provide you with a number

rather than being able to type in. It's not going to be like a keyboard or anything. Yeah, there's no keyboard. There's no keyboard for sure. But I'm excited about that. It's good. Widgets are good, right? I'm sure there's some grumpy person out there who doesn't

say so, but I think of the things that Apple has introduced in the last few years, these new widgets are very good. They're really nice. I really like the way they look, and I didn't want them to go too far back to what they were, so I think just something in the middle is a really nice touch. The journaling app looks

fantastic. Great. I like the way it looks. I think they've put a lot of thought into it. I'm super happy that there's an API so people can give their information to the journaling app. I wish there was, I doubt there is, but I wish there was an API that went the other way. It doesn't go the other way.

So other journaling apps can use that information. Oh. Oh, yeah. So this is it. Other journaling apps can use that information. What you... Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so this is it. Other journaling apps can use that information. What you can't do is have apps contribute things into what's known by the journaling app. But that's fantastic.

But yes, so if you're... So if you're day one... If you're day one, you should be able to use this API and get the same stuff that the journaling app is getting from Apple. Well, then I'm over the moon happy about that. Awesome. Because I just think it's the right way to be.

Yes. I think it would have been really mean. Almost everything they announced today, if you notice, they're like, it does this great thing. And there's an API for developers. I mean, this is a developer conference, but that's the way to do it. There's like an API, and there is, right? Like an API to offer this information up to the journaling app.

So you can say, hey, I make a podcast app. And I can say to the api like oh someone listened to this podcast no it's the other it's the other way oh it's the other way so i i don't believe this is my understanding okay don't ask me how i know that that like apps can't contribute items to your day of things that have happened also the rumor that it was going to be all about proximity and stuff, that's also not true. So how does it know when it says you shared the day with people? It's interactions with people,

like texts or phone calls. Okay. Or I believe their faces in photos. Okay, that's cool. That's better than the find my thing because I thought it was a bit weird. Yeah. I really want to know more about it,

but I like what they're doing. I like that there's prompts. I like that there's prompts. I like that there is a focus on mental health of it. I like the way that they've positioned this app. I think it looks very good. The icon's very pretty. This is one that I want to spend more time digging into. On iOS, I'm really, really excited.

One of the things I'm most excited about is playing around with that because I think it's a cool thing that they did. Lightning round. Yeah. iPadOS, we have lock screen customization. We have widgets. That's great. Yep.

More flexibility with Stage Manager. Who had that one on their bingo card? Seriously, is the thing that was going to happen this time. Yeah, well, unfortunately, my bingo card was lid closed, which didn't happen. But I will point out that you can't do lid closed unless you have something like support for the webcam and the external display.

So that's all got to come before. Which they now have. So maybe we're on the board to getting to lid closed clamshell mode eventually. Also, yeah, the more flexibility thing. The idea that you can, for example, my complaint was always I tend to work with one window in the center. That's my primary window that I'm working in when I'm writing a story. And then I like to have some other windows kind of off to the side. And you kind of couldn't do that with Stage Manager before

because they would say, no, that's unbalanced. Let's just put it two up. I don't want it two up. And now you're going to be able to do that. I don't trust Stage Manager until I try it now. We'll see. Because it looked perfect the first time. Sure.

We were doing, Federico and I were doing like slow-mos of the animations, trying to understand what we were seeing. And I'm very excited to see, hopefully, maybe there's some changes to my co-host stage manager. Maybe if I'm lucky, I would like some enhancements. I want to do a quick shout-out to PDF, because people are like, PDF, why?

That's like phone app. Like, why are we doing this? I'll tell you, I twice in the last year have been in a situation where I wanted to do a collaborative markup of a PDF with somebody like, like a puzzle and you want to solve it together or something. And I, what I did is I brought it into free form and it was terrible.

And now they're just like, no, you can just do it with PDFs. We're not going to make you go into some other app in order to do the markup. You can just markup PDFs together. Also using machine learning to figure out this is a form. Yeah, all of that is just

really great. PDF is one of those things that I know it sounds boring, but it's paper at this point. It is what Adobe wanted it to be all along, which is like, it's digital paper. Everybody uses it. Everybody uses the format. And so to see the ability to do that kind of thing including shared markup with apple pencil i love it just i know it's boring but like i've literally

had multiple times where i've tried to do it and had that moment which is like this should be easier and now it will be hopefully so that's great the mac got tv the tv os screensavers which is awesome yes right which is i love i'm very happy with that widgets on the desktop on the desktop for core too yeah where they do the haze over kind of thing where they fade into the background and then you click on desktop and they come back up as full color and all of that but they're there and then it obviously benefits from the other stuff there wasn't mac gaming got a segment yeah who had that hideo kojima yeah big dealjima that's a big deal game mode basically like if you put

a game in full screen the Mac now will actually know that you're playing a game and that it gets priority for the CPU and the GPU which I actually launched No Man's Sky the other day because it came out for the Mac and I still had like

Safari and MimeStream and a whole bunch of other apps open and like it just was the frame rate was terrible and I was like oh yeah I need to quit all my other apps well the the prospect here is that if you launch a game when you have other apps running on your Mac the Mac goes oh you're playing a game now and prioritizes that for the CPUs and the GPUs. That should help a lot. Lower latency. That's really good. And then, yeah, they're increasing their Bluetooth sampling.

They've lowered the audio latency, the whole idea here. Like, is this going to solve everything about the Mac being a gaming platform? No, but it helps. Genuinely, having Hideo Kojima and the things he said were a very big deal to me. Bringing Death Stranding is fine. Death Stranding is not a new game. But he said... And our future games.

Future projects. And I'm excited about this as the start of a new future for Mac gaming. I was like, oh, damn. That's a huge deal. I was excited about that and again he has nothing to do no man's guy i have no idea why that became a thing but anyway yeah not so much on the mac and what i'll say watch os as well was leading up to it like oh this is going to be like the biggest change for our operating system it's so what it there's stuff It's new and it looks cool, but it's not

huge. It's not a complete rethink, except I've got a couple things about the watch. One is, the way that the widgets are built is that you scroll the crown and the widgets come up on top of your watch face. That's really good and you can choose what widgets

go there, which means that if you value widgets, you can get to them very quickly. You don't have to launch an app and you don't have widgets go there, which means that if you value widgets, you can get to them very quickly. You don't have to launch an app and you don't have to be limited to a complication. That's really good. It also means that if you're somebody who uses complications, because you can make a widget with complications in it. So it means that if you have watch faces that you wanted to use, but you can't because you need complications, just use those watch faces now because you scroll up and there are your complications. They're right there to tap to go to check your rings or whatever you want to do.

So that's all really good. It doesn't feel like a rethink, although I did like the part of the app design change that they made that I really liked is the idea that apps basically have complications in the corners and that's how you do it and that I will say after 10 years of Apple Watch development

that's a great example of Apple realizing how people use the watch oh watch users understand about little icons in the corners that have meetings let's use that to solve this problem all the time there's stuff in the corners that have meetings. It makes logical sense. Let's use that to solve this problem of a tiny screen. All the time, there's stuff in the corners on your Apple Watch.

Why would it not be all the time? All the time. It's one of the things that makes a lot of sense. It's like good logic. So it's not the watchOS rethink that we thought, but I think those are two tangible things that improve watchOS. But it's effectively like a rethink of the Siri watch face. There are the whole system and saying why is it limited to that because i never use the serial watch face because i didn't really like it even though i like the idea of it and

this is like well no no just use whatever watch face you want yeah and all that information is just right there for you i think that's good yeah i'm intrigued i'm intrigued how that's going to play out i think it could be really cool to have more information kind of just there. And obviously the widgets will be more information-rich than a complication. Yes. And so I may, for example, stop using my weather complication because I'll use a widget and then I have a new complication space. Yes. And you can pin widgets.

So if you want to put your weather at the top. That's what I would want to do. Or if you wanted to put the complications at the top. So then you could use the photo watch face instead of every complication. It's just one little, and you're right there. That's good. That's what I would want to do. Or if you wanted to put the complications at the top, right? So then you could use the photo, watch face, and still have your complications just at one little, and you're right there. That's good. That's really cool.

The mood tracking thing, it looks like a really nice experience. I like the visualness of it. That, I think, is very nice to use. It's pleasant to use, which is what you would want from a thing like that if you were feeling down. You don't have to say how you're feeling, you can just choose from

a visual. I think that there is a nicety to that. I like that part. And then it tracks it so it's able to gain some insight about whether you're feeling down or if you... It's understanding your history. I like that. And I like the quizzes and stuff that you're feeling down or if you, you know, it's understanding your history. Yeah, and I like the quizzes and stuff that you're able to take, like the evaluations.

It was all really nice. Can I mention that we were doing the iOS lightning round here? I just want to point out that, or the OS lightning round, that there was iOS, iPadOS, macOS, and then things that support the audio in the home. TVOS, I guess, would be in that. And AirPods OS. And then things that support the audio in the home. TV OS, I guess, would be in that. And AirPods OS. And the AirPods.

TV OS, actually, we mentioned it earlier. FaceTime on TV OS with continuity camera is great. I do weekly, or I guess it's every other week, Zoom calls with Lauren's family. And we're sitting in front of a big TV, and we end up putting it on like an iPad or a laptop. And it's stupid. So this is great. I think this is going to be great.

And the fact, again, they went out of their way to say, this will also work with Zoom and anything else, and they're going to be on tvOS for the first time. And so I was very happy with that. And also tvOS, you'll like this as the tvOS reviewer, that new control center for tvOS that isn't stupid. Yeah, it looked good. It's actually good.

These were some good updates to tvOS. There was more in there than I obviously was in my draft. I thought they wouldn't even talk about it. And I'm actually enthused by them doing it this way because this gives them the opportunity to talk about this operating system and these features all in one bucket. Yes. HomePod and AirPods and TV.

Like, it makes sense to put them all together. And I thought it was a nice presentation. And as we finish the lightning round, I want to say shout out to Adaptive Audio on AirPods. Oh, that looks good. Well, and think about it. It's like, again, they took the things they built for AirPods. So transparency mode, noise canceling. And it's like, those are nice.

But this is now that they've been out in the wild for a while. This is their, what if we could intelligently blend them? So you don't have to do that. You can, if you want to, but like, what if we made it so that when somebody starts talking to you, it does something to adapt. What if we made it so that when somebody starts talking to you, it does something to adapt? What if we made it so that you can hear important sounds that are around you, but not dumb noise that's around you? And being able to try and make some guesses about all of that.

That's because in the end, as great as transparency and noise canceling are, what's even greater is if you don't have to keep reaching up to your ear to toggle between them because the device knows. It's like for me, one of the times where I use noise cancellation, but I don't want to is when I'm on the tube. Right. Because sometimes the trains are really loud. So I want to put noise cancellation on, but I want to be able to hear the announcements. So my hope is that this would provide that. Right. Yeah. Like if there was an announcement, it might be able to pick that up and give that information to me. So I would like that a lot.

It's worth noting AirPods Pro, second generation only. Yes. Which makes me think, we're wearing AirPods Max today. I use AirPods Max when I'm on planes. Next generation. I'm now hoping there will be a new generation of AirPods Max that will support this. Because, like, for me, a good time is plane.

Like, when I was flying over here multiple times, the flight attendant was asking me questions, and Idina had to hit me. He's asking me a question. Yeah, right. Because I was just watching. I watched 13 episodes of The West Wing on the flight. Wow.

I didn't mean to do that, but I just started, and that was where I went. That's what happened. And so I was engrossed in the show, because I couldn't hear that that was where I went. That's what happened. And so I was engrossed in the show and I wasn't, but like, because I couldn't hear that someone was talking to me. And this shows you how Apple has a philosophy as a company because this is the same conversation we had

about the Apple Vision Pro, which is letting you be as detached from reality as you need to be, but being smart about allowing you to remain attached in some way. This is that kind of idea that you're on the plane and somebody's trying to talk to you and it knows, and it connects you unless you want to not be bothered.

But like, I think that's great. I think that's how it should work. We will talk more about these operating systems, uh, over the coming months, especially as we install baiters and get time to use them and find out what people are finding out

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15-inch MacBook Air, new version of the Mac Studio, Apple Silicon Mac Pro. Apple Silicon Mac Pro is shipping next week. That is unbelievable to me. Huh? Like out of nowhere? And for all of our tea leaf reading

about what Apple does and why they do it, and there are a lot of people out there who are like, Apple will never, what will Apple never? Apple will never release an M2, I don't know why they talk like that. But they do. Apple will never release an M2 15-inch MacBook Air because the M2 13-inch MacBook Air has been out for almost a year.

They'll never do that. Well, they did it. Apple will never release a Mac Studio with an M2 Ultra in it and a Mac Pro with an M2 Ultra in it. Apple will do a lot of things that people think it'll never do. And the idea here is the Mac Pro is what it is. It's not, it's just got the Ultra chip in it.

It's got lots of slots. The slots are not for graphics. They are for storage and networking. And audio and stuff like that. And audio and all those things and they had a bunch set up and they said you know for video editors they like a lot of this and for audio editors they do this and there's a lot of like

super fast networking that's done in media fields and that's what they're doing and of course from Apple's perspective like they can't at least yet re-engineer the way graphics cores work in Apple Silicon so they're going to lean into the other things because that's what they've got.

But it's here. It closes the transition. And now we can start speculating about are they going to do more on the Mac Pro side going forward? But it's out. They shipped it. And they shipped the Ultra at the same time or are about to ship the Ultra at the same time

or the studio with Max and Ultra. A little curious about why it took them so long to get those Mac studios out there, but happy to see them out there because as somebody who loves the Mac studio, I'm glad that the Mac studio is not a one-off. I think they maybe didn't want to rev the Mac studio until they had the Mac Pro.

I think maybe you're right. Because it sent the wrong message. And now they can say, here's why you can choose, right? And I liked that they framed it that way, answering some of those questions about why. And the answer is, look, we have customers who just need this. And we have customers who need this space of the Mac Pro. And so we're going to give that to them.

And nothing surprising about it. There's no big conspiracy theory. it is literally the enclosure that you know lots and lots of space inside it for lots and lots of cards and that's and and and there's no change to the ram and graphics model because it's apple silicon and that's where we are and i mean you can put up to 192 gigabytes of RAM in there. So I think you're going to be fine. Oh, sure. I mean, it's just, you know, one of those debates about like, but what if I need more GPUs

and all that. However, the star of the show, other than, you know, is the 15-inch MacBook Air. Because here's the thing. It's not any different from the 13-inch MacBook Air. It is an M2 MacBook Air that's bigger. I got to hold one.

Me too. It is, other than the fact that there's more space on the sides of the keyboard because it's a bigger computer and it's got a bigger screen. If you didn't know about the, if you didn't notice the space on the sides of the keyboard, you might not even understand

whether you were not just looking at a 13-inch because they're designed the same. They look the same. It's just bigger. The battery is, it's got the bigger screen. Presumably it's got a better battery too. The net result is the same quoted battery life. The only thing that's really different

other than the fact that the screen's bigger and it's a little bit heavier is that the audio is a little bit bigger. There was room for like two more drivers, I guess, in the audio. But like basically it's the 12 or 13-inch MacBook Air, bit bigger. There was room for like two more drivers, I guess, in the audio. But like basically, it's the 13-inch MacBook Air but bigger. 13-inch MacBook Air, most popular laptop around, essentially. Best computer.

You and me both. And some people want a bigger one. Like this is, it is Apple. Look, Apple could have said, well, if you want a bigger laptop, pay more than $1,000 to get a MacBook Pro. And some people will say yes. A lot of people will say no. I think the 15-inch Air is going to be a big hit, maybe bigger than the 13-inch. If not, because they're a couple hundred dollars apart, because they cut the price of the M2 Air by $100, which is great.

You can see it's getting closer. Like another year or two, it's $999. Yeah, exactly. It's getting there. So that's the one that all of us jaded Apple watchers are like, yeah, okay, MacBook Air, M2, boring, whatever. That thing is going to be a hit. And people are going to love it. And it's going to be really, really good and successful

because the 13-inch model is great. And now there's one for $100 more than the 13-inch model used to cost until today. You can get a 15-inch laptop. And there hasn't been a 15-inch Mac laptop in that price range for a while. Yeah. a 15-inch Mac laptop in that price range for a while. Yeah. If I used my laptop more like a laptop,

like it's plugged into my studio display most of the time, I think I would prefer the 15 over the 13 because you get more screen real estate. More space, yeah. More space. Right now, I don't have enough screen space to do what I'm doing, but most of the time this is not a problem to me because I'm plugged into a display. And I like having

the small form factor for traveling. And I know a lot of our listeners are MacBook Pro people. And they're like, well, you just get a MacBook Pro. But the MacBook Pro... You don't need a MacBook Pro anymore. 16-inch MacBook Pro is so expensive. It's also so much bigger. It's heavier. And it's bigger and it's heavier and all those things.

And some people might choose that just for the screen size. But what the 15-inch Air suggests is, which I think is true, there are a lot of people who are just not going to spend $2,500 on a laptop to get a bigger screen. And Apple wasn't serving that audience. There are a lot of people that use their laptop for everything. They watch all their media on their laptop.

I'm thinking like students and stuff right like or if you uh you flat share and you just have a bedroom right you don't you don't necessarily want to put a tv in there uh like wouldn't it be better to just have a bit bigger screen this thing's gonna do good i think i picked it up i'm gonna be a hit genuinely surprised about how light it was 3.3 pounds it's pretty to do good. I think so. I picked it up and was genuinely surprised about how light it was. It's like 3.3 pounds. It's pretty light. It's really good. I wanted to check what the weight difference was between the 13 and 15.

So it's 2.7 pounds for the 13, 3.3 pounds for – I mean, it's half a pound heavier, but it's also a 15.3-inch display. It's a really nice size display. Looked good too. I went through the whole demo. It's like it's a really nice size display look good too i'm playing there i went for the whole demo they were showing me something it's it's like it's an m2 it's an m2 macbook air it's just a bigger screen that's literally all it is and i know we can all be like oh again oh it's so boring it's like yeah it is boring it's also going to be an enormous hit and uh in this calendar year the most important product that apple announced today so yeah yes oh you know

what i wanted to talk about real quick before we wrap up is the availability thing of the reality pro it's like i have vision pro vision pro you gotta stop saying it i will get there eventually the apple vision pro is it's facing a potential conundrum for me of like available in you know i'd say january february next year and u.s only an unknown time well i mean i gotta get one yeah so it's like do i have someone buy one ship one to me do i come to america buddy oh come into america i could do that i could take a flight to like i don't know know, somewhere on the East Coast. But it's like, this is going to be an interesting thing. I'm not sure what I'm going to do there,

but I have a lot of time to think about that. But anyway, that was a diversion. Back to the Macs. I am interested in this Mac studio because for me, so I think for me in the future, a Mac studio is a good idea for me

because right now I'm using a 14-inch MacBook Pro that is permanently in clamshell mode as my recording and production machine at the studio just because I have it. So like when I got the MacBook Air completely won me over with the review unit and I was like this is the laptop I want but I still need something to produce my shows and that's really powerful and it's doing a great job for me and I always thought maybe you know the Mac studio makes sense for the the actual

physical setup that i have but i was nervous that it was a one and done but it's not it's not so now like i don't know when or if i would i'm probably a couple of years away now from i'm still wanting to sell that machine sell that macbook pro i might do i'll see but like my point now is like i now feel confident in mac studio in mac studio as a thing that i can like get on board with that idea mac studio is more of a representation of apple's vision of what computing is in apple silicon for pro users than the mac pro is yeah the Mac Pro is like there because it needs to be there and it's nice to have it and all of that. But the fact is that given the priorities

that Apple has done for Apple Silicon in terms of things like closely integrating the GPU and the memory and all those things, the Mac Studio is the ultimate kind of iteration of that philosophy. The Mac Pro is more like a little sideline where it's tweaked a little bit and it's a little more modular

because some people want that. But the purity of the vision, I think, is that Mac Studio. Yeah. What a day. Big day. Huge day. This is going to take some time to process.

I feel like we had two WWDC keynotes today. It felt like that a little bit, doesn't it? And so I'm very excited to be here and we can bathe in the information over the next few days and then we'll be recording together again on Monday. Lighthouse, yeah. As we'll ring in the beginning of the Summer of Fun.

We'll talk more about this stuff. We'll have more information and we'll be able to dig into it further. Speaking of the Summer of Fun, don't forget that you can get your exclusive official Summer of Fun merchandise right now by going to upgradeyourwardrobe.com Go and check out the new

Thunderbolt Doc Surf Shop t-shirt. It's very fun, very cool, great colors. Yeah, thanks to designer JD. Yes. I had a vision of like a Surf Shop shirt and JD came through. JD came through. If you want to send us your feedback, follow-up, and questions,

I'm sure you'll have a ton of Ask Upgrade questions for us the next week. Go to upgradefeedback.com. You can check out Jason and Dan's work at sixcolors.com. I'm sure you're going to have a ton of stuff going on for the next few weeks. You can hear Jason's shows here on RelayFM and theincomparable.com. Check out Downstream and the new Downstream Plus. That's a really cool thing you're doing. Thank you, yes.

You can listen to my shows here on RelayFM and check out my work the new downstream plus that's a really cool thing you're doing yes you can listen to my shows here on relay FM and check out my work at cortex brand dot com we're on mastodon Jason is at Jason now on Zeppelin dot flights you can find

me as I Mike on Mike dot social you can also find the show is at upgrade on relay FM dot social where you can also see video clips along on our tick tock and Instagram accounts we are

at upgrade relay on both I was hanging out with a video consultant of the show, Jeremy Burge, yesterday, and he posted an official TikTok face reveal for me. I saw. Which is apparently a thing. We, thanks to the people at Apple, have video of this. Yes, we'll try to post it somewhere.

Yeah. So this show, I mean, you've already heard it now. Yes. But there'll be a video version if you just want to see what it looked like. Yeah, sure. And we'll put some clips up, I'm sure. Yeah. Somewhere. Hi, everybody. Hi, everyone. already heard it now but there'll be a video version if you just want to see what it looked like yeah sure and we'll put some clips up i'm sure yeah hi everybody hi everyone uh thank you to our members who support us at upgrade plus you can go to getupgradeplus.com to find out more

thank you to fitbod and notion and squarespace for their support of this show but most of all thank you for listening until next time say goodbye just as now goodbye my curly I'm saying goodbye to Jess as well. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.