Upgrade - 503: We Own the Refs, the Stadium, and the Field

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 503 for march 11th 2024 this episode is brought to you by factor and delete me my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by jason snell hi jason hi mike how are you i'm very good thank you how are you uh i'm doing good why why wouldn't i be exactly i mean i mean we're recording this an hour earlier than usual and that because of the cruel tyranny of time and i couldn't be more excited it's not really an hour it's like it depends on how you look at time right like because for you it's the same time it's actually an hour earlier for me but you've lost right but i've lost an hour. It depends on how you look at time, right? Because for you, it's the same time. It's actually an hour earlier for me, but you've lost an hour.

But I've lost an hour and I can't find it anywhere. Yeah. I hope you find it. Boo. Thanks. I have a Snow Talk question for you that comes from Christian who wants to know, what is your strategy with the face detection feature of photos? Do you only tag close friends and family or do you give a name to anyone it detects christian neither of those neither of those i do not only tag close friends

and family nor do i give a name to everyone it detects i give a name to anyone whose name i know off the top of my head. So I know them well enough to label them, um, which is, which actually there's a lot of pictures of little kids from my kids, uh, school things and they don't get, uh, they don't get tagged unless it's very obviously like a friend of my, my kids had for a long time, in which case I will, I will mark them. But, um, but like, for example, uh, and famous people, sometimes I've been inconsistent with famous people because I just found him.

I'm looking at my photos library here. Hey, there's Seth Green. He's in my photos library. That's weird. Because he was at the space shuttle launch that I went to. So I could tag, okay, I'm going to tag Seth Green. There he is, now he's tagged. I recognize Seth Green and now he's in there.

Well, I think I have Sal, who y'all know. I've got him in there. I think I have Steve Jobs and Tim Cook in my people. Okay. Because I have pictures of Steve Jobs and Tim Cook. But mostly it's friends and family and kids' friends and stuff like that. And occasionally, but like if it's some, if it's's like there are lots of random faces that i have not done anything with i just leave them in there and that's just like but i'm saying like i named

my daughter's kindergarten teacher you know they're they're as i scroll through there are some that are named um uh but you know mostly not mostly not yeah okay you i think you fall closer to the second category where i am in the first category where like i only put names to people i truly like really care about in my life and so like there are people in the add people section where they're not i'm not going to put them in because i just for me it's like these who am i actually whose photos do i really want to look back over um so yeah okay and i actually also did find out in preparing for this i didn't know that the it was called people and pets now because it used to

be called faces but now it is that was just this version last fall and in fact uh as i just put into our discord i have pets pets there including not my own pets romeo the adorable friend of the show who is occasionally walking across the rooftop next to me as i record he has his own entry where i've snapped various shots of romeo doing his thing uh adventuring around my neighborhood i have two i have two pets in mind my brother's dog and friend's dog i wonder actually i don't know the answer to this. If you don't tag pets, does it just say people? I don't think so. I think it's renamed to people and pets regardless.

If you have no photos of animals at all in your photo library, I don't know what happens then. If anybody does know, please let us know. Write in over at upgradefeedback.com. If you have no animals, does it say just people? Or maybe I'll say just the first person. Write that in. If you don't think you're the first person, don't write in. Because otherwise I'll be digging through a lot of follow-up.

Or just don't write in. Or just don't write in at all. Thank you so much to Christian for sending that question. If you would like to help us open an episode of the show, just send in a Snell Talk question. We're going to upgradefeedback.com. It can be about anything you like. You'll help us open an episode.

A couple of items to follow up. We are recording the day after the Oscars. Did you watch the Oscars, Jason? I did. I watched the whole thing. And Apple didn't win any. Apple won zero, even though Killers of the Flower Moon

was up for a lot, and that's an Apple movie. Yep. Apparently, you know, they ran a big campaign, for a lot and that's an Apple movie. Apparently they ran a big campaign, spent a lot of money. No Oscars. I think Lily Gladstone was their best chance and she was one of the favorites for the

Best Actress Award but it was always going to be it sounded like kind of a toss up between her and Emma Stone and Emma Stone won that one. None for Marty and Marty's movie and emma stone and emma stone won that one so uh none for none for for marty and marty's movie and none for tim and company but it happens they got they can they can just hold coda tighter to their heart it's the same for netflix too right they didn't win anything

with maestro i know that that was their uh their big bet was maestro and they didn't win on that either uh i did what i always do I watched a bunch of clips this morning. So I watched the monologue, which I enjoyed. But especially my very favorite thing, and I recommend everybody watches this, Ryan Gosling just going all out with his performance of I'm Just Ken, which is the musical number from Barbie.

This man is an absolute treasure. The amount of effort he put into this from a performance perspective i was very impressed and it's so much fun uh and yeah it's great it's great it's fantastic it's it's the high point of the whole show yeah and uh and i say that as somebody who didn't really love his performance in barbie oh really this yeah i didn't really like it i thought he was out i thought he was outshined charisma-wise by other Kens. And I was like, I don't know.

I don't know. Maybe don't put Simu Liu so close to Ryan Gosling. But this is amazing. It's great. And my other high point of the whole thing was when Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwarzenegger came out. And you thought they were going to do a twins joke. And they're like, well, you know why we're here. It's because we both lost to Batman.

And then they cut to, and they're like, there know why we're here it's because we're both lost to batman and then they cut to and they're like there he is and it's michael keaton in the audience and he's giving him the steely glare of batman and he holds it the whole bit they keep cutting back to him he's still giving him the steely glare and some nods and some like i'm gonna get you's uh hand gestures and it's just that was like that made me laugh so much i was like so so it's like ah, it's Batman, including the great line. Uh, how'd he get you? He's like,

well, you know, he found my one weakness, heat. No love. And he says, oh, he just threw me out.

He just threw me out a window. It was great. This was a pretty good Oscar, right? Like for, for this kind of stuff, like the John Cena bit was very funny to me. John Cena bit was good.

Yeah. They're mostly good bits. There was one, even the presenter bits were pretty good i actually liked the um they had five former winners come out and speak directly to the five nominees yeah in the in the acting categories i thought that was really good there was one intro that was really groan worthy and bad where there was like a whole banter back and forth i forget what it was even now and it was just the worst it was just unwatchable but like other than that one it did really well so um i think they did a good job i uh i i enjoyed i thought it was a pretty good performer or a

pretty good show yeah oh yeah john mulaney doing his whole uh getting off track with field of dreams plot plot thread questions instead of introducing the category also very funny and john mulaney is just great so there is a there are rumors about this and i hope it's true that mulaney might be the next oscars host or like might be do it after kimmel because he did the governor's ball which is the one of the governors something is not the ball there's like a pre-oscars thing yeah and he hosted that so he is um he's great um kimmel is perfect for that job i was reminded again he's perfect for that job yeah some of his jokes were silly and some of his jokes were dad jokes but he's trying to he's trying to uh like set set a mood take it a little light but

while also you know understanding that this is important for the nominees he you know abc does the oscars he's a talk show host on ABC. So it actually is a perfect fit, but I think he's very good at the job. So if he doesn't want to do anymore, I think sure. I mean, John Mulaney is hilarious and would be a very interesting choice.

Um, but also in my mind, uh, uh, Kimmel and this year's producers could just keep doing it because they did, they did a good job. Sorry, Apple. And my favorite movie, the movie that I walked out of and I thought, yep, that's it.

That's the best movie I saw a year. That's probably best picture. That happened. So Oppenheimer won them all. I have a point about could just go back to the Kimmel part. The one part of it I didn't like. I did not like the jokes about Robert Downey Jr. Like, I didn't think that they were good.

And I feel like we should have passed these kinds of jokes in 2024 i liked it up to a point and i thought it went on too long i think that more i think viewing it from a hollywood perspective of that he was he was un he was unemployable and then he's come all the way back to this but then again he did that in his and better in his exactly thank you speech it was way better right it was i think it would have been better to lean on the unemployable than to make drug jokes that was not i didn't find that well they they started to riff on it and it was uh it was a bit like i said i think it went on too far i think that there was a little a little jab to be made about like can you believe it and then you move on and uh it dwelt on yeah there were a few there were a few bits like that where i was like you know but that's in in the grand scheme of things uh pretty good for i mean i've seen some oscar

shows that were like death and this was not that but then about oppenheimer like you know we were watching this morning and it didn't turn to me and she was like, I just think it's great that the best picture is a movie we actually saw and enjoyed. Which is like, it's so, like I feel like

it's a rare thing. Like I feel like in most recent, like for a long time, it's like we've watched the best picture after it won best picture because it won best picture.

But like it's rare that like there was the movie that I chose to see because I wanted to see it ended up being the best picture so yeah it's a good feeling dma today time everybody's favorite this is actually dma related today it's not just european adjacent so over the course of about three days last week, Apple pulled and reinstated Epic's developer account in Sweden again. So I'm going to try and abridge all of this. It started with an exchange of emails

between Phil Schiller and Tim Sweeney about getting assertions that Epic would follow the rules again and not break rules like they did last time. Then Apple removed Epic's account again, in part because of public criticisms that Sweeney posted on X about Apple's response to the DMA, which is a wild thing for Phil Schiller to put in writing. Like, just like, I don't know what he's doing then the eu commission i think quite rightly started asking questions about this then apple reinstated them again this is a stupid petty mess to add on

top of all of the other stupid messes that they're trying to deal with right now this is absolutely superfluous unnecessary benefited nobody i do not know why this happened yeah it was after the i would say basically a pr own goal of them putting down in their little letter about how they essentially view the app store as a gift to everybody else and that spotify built a whole big successful business on apple giving it to them for free um which at the time i think i said this last week i thought well doesn't that make you look kind of dumb that that was your business model that giving it to them for free, which at the time, I think I said this last week, I thought, well, doesn't that make you look kind of dumb that that was your business model that you stuck with? But also it just gets to the whole idea of Apple's attitude toward other people being involved in

their platforms as being that Apple creates the value and they sort of suck the value away, which is not true. It's much more symbiotic than they would believe. But this, I think this shows just how rooted this mindset is, which is, and also I got to say a little bit baffling. And this is the thing is I thought when I saw that letter from Phil Schiller basically saying, hey, Tim, reassure me you're not going to break the rules again. And his response was, I absolutely reassure you we will not break the rules again, and I will provide anything you want in writing to say that. The result was then that Apple then banned them and said they did it because they were mean to Apple. They dared to criticize Apple publicly. It's like,

well, wait a second. Fealty to Apple is not in the App Store rules, right? Like, omerta, right? Like, silence and do not talk about Apple and your relationship with Apple is not in the App Store rules, nor would it be legal for it to be there, especially in Europe. rules, nor would it be legal for it to be there, especially in Europe. And so for them to do that, it shows you how petty and vindictive people at Apple can be. And it's a bad look when you're an incredibly powerful company. It's understandable to a certain extent when you're fighting for your life, which is, I think, why that attitude got ingrained in Apple. It was in the early Steve Jobs return era and they were fighting for their lives. But I will say also, I think it's just a Steve Jobs trait

that has transferred to the company is he's always felt like he did. He always felt like he did great works and everybody else made money off of it. And he felt like they were all just kind of leeching off of his greatness. And I just bottom line, I've seen it. It happened in the relationship with Macworld and Macworld Expo. It's just a fact. And then I see it here and I think, oh, yeah. And let's be clear. I'm just going to be honest. Look, I've worked with a lot of great people at Apple over the years. But I've also seen this firsthand that if you do stuff Apple doesn't like, they won't say so necessarily.

But they'll punish you. They'll punish you. They'll punish you. They'll forget you on the next round of whatever, of review units or whatever. It has happened to me multiple times, to people I know multiple times. And in this, I was getting the flashbacks, which is it's like, oh, we're going to... Phil Schiller assures Sweeney that if he gives him permit, you know, gives him his word, basically they'll let them back in, uh, probably knowing that the, that the European commission wants to let, wants them to let them back in. And Sweeney, Sweeney, who is not a compliant guy, right? He, I find him unpleasant and, and he has a real

attitude. Um, and his response to Phil is like, yes, Phil, anything. I assure you and we will provide anything you want. And then, you know, they're also doing their public publicity campaign against Apple's policies. And that's what gets you kicked out is daring to speak your dissent to the powerful gatekeeper. Well, that's certainly not going to play well in the regulatory environment where they're trying to shut down powerful gatekeepers. But I found the whole thing telling and offensive. And I feel like Apple's relationship with regulators and developers

about the App Store needs a reset. And while Phil really, Phil fixed a lot of things that were wrong with the App Store when he came back. Because remember, Eddie was in charge of this. And I think didn't really care about it. And Phil Schiller came and took it over. And if you think relationships with Apple and developers are bad now, you should have seen it back then. The number of arbitrary rejections and some of the rules, like a lot of things changed for the better. At this point,

though, when I look at stuff like this, I think I feel like there needs to be some new blood in this relationship. Like almost politically, you need to sort of say, no, we're going to put somebody new in charge of this stuff. And they're going to be able to sort of this relationship like almost politically you need to sort of say no we're going to put somebody new in charge of this stuff and they're going to and they're going to be able to sort of like say okay we're going to reset and we're going to change the rules a little bit and we're going to it's not going to be like it was because this this is so poisonous that i'm not sure how this is bad like i'm not sure how phil schiller can represent apple in this stuff and that's not to say that he hasn't done some good stuff and isn't a really smart guy, but I feel like this can't continue like this.

It's different people for different phases, right? Eddie was good for getting it set up. Phil has been good for building it up to this powerhouse that it is and giving more options to developers for how they make money and this kind of stuff. But maybe there is a new mindset needed for the regulation era of the App Store. Quite frankly, it's a long email that Phil wrote to Tim, but essentially it boils down to the fact that you broke the rules in the past

and your criticism is why we're not letting you in. So really what it means is it's the criticism it's the criticism they they reinstated the account knowing full well what they've done in the past so the only thing that had changed is tim sweeney was tweeting about it and like that is an absolutely unacceptable reason to well to deny anyone to be in the app store let alone one of the biggest game makers in the world, probably the biggest game maker in the world, which should be on the platform. Why do you think I have anonymous people

who do the Apple report card every year? Honestly, this is the thing is, if you want things out of Apple, I mean, it's not necessarily if I'm on the record criticizing Apple, Apple's gonna pull me from the app store, my perfectly fine app, but it does mean like, oh, now I'm not going to get help with my app or now I'm not going to get my app featured in the app store or, you know, whatever. Now my icon is never going to appear on

a slide at WWDC. It's stuff, it's petty stuff like that, that absolutely happens. So that's the problem here. And that's why I think there needs to be a reset and i i don't know what it's going to take what's it going to take is this what it's going to take is it a two billion dollar fine that it's going to take is it going to be a future fine that's even larger from the ec is what it's going to take the overall company turnover right right those are the fines that are on the line for the dma so i don't know what it's going to take but but and i know we've talked about this a lot in the past but like now there's even more teeth to it like apple's not playing the game it thinks it's playing it's not playing the game it

was playing five years ago certainly not 10 years ago or 15 years ago and yet it's acting like it is. It's acting like it's an upstart that's just trying to make it and figuring things out. And it's like it's 2009 and it's not, it's 2024. You're a giant, you're making huge amounts of money and acting in a way that is like, you know, that is imperious and dangerous and arrogant and threatening to all of those who are not as powerful as you, who you hold sway over, which is everybody. And again, just to be clear about this, the whole DMA and the whole EC thing,

the whole idea there, the concept behind it is that there are certain gatekeepers so powerful that they exert an undue amount of power over everybody. And so it's bad for businesses and consumers. Nothing reinforces that than trying to rule by fear, which is effectively what Apple has been and continues to do. And there's no better example than this of literally do not criticize us or we will make your business break. This is the best example.

Like I can't recall ever seeing in writing an Apple executive telling a developer, we are not going to allow you in the app store because you were mean and it is wild to me yeah because you disagree with us about our business yes and you said it out loud don't you can disagree with us all you like as long as you never tell anybody and act like you like it that's the policy it's wild of all the times to do this that's why i made that comment about writing it down

the fact that this is written down is like have you learned nothing like you know like yeah but i just want to spell this out again though just to say this is this is entirely consistent anyone who wants to tell me that this is an aberration and it's because it's tim sweeney and all of that and that apple doesn't normally act this way, talk to someone who knows better. Talk to a developer who's had a run-in with Apple. Talk to somebody in the press who's had a run-in with Apple. This is how Apple has operated for more than a decade, for at least 15 years, probably more like 20 years, 25 years, I don't know, pretty close to as long as I've been doing this this is they play hardball and uh they're like i said it was never fun but they are so powerful now and this is the result is is this

and it's just it's not necessary it is not necessary i firmly believe that apple can compete on its own merits and that's the part that really bugs me about all of this. And I, again, I don't know if it's just the, why should we change the thing that we've done? That's been so successful, whether there's some arrogance attached to that. I mean, I think there is, but like, I don't, I think that there must be an underlying fear going on here as well, because I don't think Apple needs to play like this to win but they feel like they you know like right it's like if you if you let it be a more fair playground more fair playing field what do you think is going to happen i think apple would do well but i guess their attitude is why

find out it's like it's just the worst why find out why if we own the refs why if we own the refs i mean we've got a good team we've got a really good team we probably got the best team but uh we also own the refs and the stadium and the field so why should we even risk it right we've got to buy this is a this is a win the washington generals might show up but that's going to be it that like we are going it. We are going to own it. And that's the part that drives me crazy is that I think that they can, not only do I think that they could succeed on the merits, it would actually force them to make an effort in some places maybe where they don't make an effort.

And that would make it better for developers and better for users. But instead, we're left with this sort of naked uh bullying that's happening and it's outrageous and i hope i mean and again i don't like epic particularly and i don't like tim sweeney particularly but boy he managed to get some real clarity about apple's behavior toward developers with this and i will just like hopefully this is gonna be the last point we can move on but at least we clearly both really care about this. Right. And I think,

yeah, but for me, like, I feel like I'm seeing a lot online of like anti Europe sentiment about this whole thing happening. But for me, this is why it's happening because without the European commission, no one would have changed this decision.

If this was a decision that before the dma that was the end of this right phil schiller sends this email to tim sweeney done and because that was what they decided like the last 15 literally yes what you're describing is the last 15 years where if you get on apple's bad side if you don't do what they want you're out that's it they know there's no judge change this decision because the European Commission told them to. And so they did it. So this is why we need it. Someone has to change this.

And it's Europe. I think that there are reasonable criticisms of governments trying to get results through legislation that don't necessarily get the results that they want. But I think this is a really good example of what happens when oversight is added to a process where there was none. In very simple terms, there was no oversight, and now there is actual oversight. And that's the only reason that this whole thing happened and that Epic Sweden has its account back. Yep. And I would prefer for it not to be a government too, but we've been asking for years for Apple to do something about this and they've decided not to. We've talked about this a lot. We

live in an era, we were talking about this in terms of Tim Cook and China at one point, right? We live in an era where, when I was a kid, I used to read science fiction about the future, the future where like corporations were more powerful than governments. Well, we live in the present where corporations are more powerful than most world governments and as powerful as many other world governments. And this is a case where like, who is going to solve this issue anywhere? And the answer is like,

the entire European Union can take on Apple. Like that's what it takes. That's what it takes. Maybe, you know, South Korea a little bit, the Netherlands a little bit, takes government actors. And I'm not saying that governments are the best use of this, but like who else is there who is as powerful and can make these companies do what they want? There's nobody else. They are so powerful and they have such a stronghold on parts of our world that it's uh it's necessary we have another item in dma today by the way but i think it is all of a of a of the same thing which is criticism of some of apple's policies that leads to changes in policies that i'm skeptical would ever have been made otherwise because again there's a hammer now with uh the ec because i guess it is worth knowing i should mention this at the top the DMA is now in effect.

So in between the last two episodes. Happy DMA day to all. It's happened now. Who celebrate? This is where, and this is why I think the Epic thing could be changed because, well, now there were the rules.

The rules are in place. And so everybody has to get in line. Apple before releasing 17.4, and because the DMA was going into effect at 17.4, they made some tweaks to the new business terms that developers can opt into. So this is everything about the core technology fee and all that kind of stuff.

It's the new business terms. So they made three changes. Previously, if you wanted to opt in with any app that an entire business would own it would opt in every associated developer account you may have in your business but you can now do this on a per account business not a corporation business so if you had like some large company and it had multiple developer accounts or multiple apps if you did app a apps b and c would also need to go into the new business terms. But now you don't need to do that. You can do it

on a per account basis. You are now allowed to switch back from the new business terms to the old ones one time. There was previously, if you go to the new business terms, there's no coming back. Now you can come back one time, which realistically

means you can go back and forward technically any amount of times you want. We thought, oh, there's clearly some kind of technical reason for this. No, if you can come back, this means this is just what Apple wants you to do, but you're allowed to go there, and if you've made a big mistake,

you can go back to the old 70-30 terms. And there's new eligibility criteria for app marketplaces. Basically, you can provide the letter of credit where you do like the 1 million. A million euro. Yeah. There is now a second way that you can do this.

So if you can't provide the line of credit, you can apply to be an app marketplace if you have been, quote, a developer in good standing for more than two years and have an app that has had more than 1 million installs in a year in the european union is it a new terms no changes on the on the core technology fee though so nothing's been adjusted there this might this might affect the developer vault store and i would imagine set app as well um it would be helpful for them right that they that they may now not have to provide the the line of credit however if those are two apps that we know had

already said they were doing it so they must have been able to get that but now maybe they don't need to although again it may it may help them out there and i i do wonder if this is somebody going to the ec or whether this is feedback to Apple or how exactly this pathway works to get sort of this stuff. But, you know, because it could very well be that there's feedback from developers who are like, but what about this scenario? And Apple's like, oh, yeah, OK. All right.

That doesn't hurt us. That's fine. I could imagine that there is a developer that Apple would quite like to have at Marketplace or like it would be beneficial to them if they had one, they can't get the the associated developer account thing is big too right because it used to be that it was everywhere and now it's sort of like it could be in a in a sub account I actually wonder what this means for something like Facebook right like could you end up with Facebook Europe having a Facebook app store that's just for Facebook Europe that's separate from the blue Facebook accounts and all of those, and that it

would be, Facebook Europe would be under the terms for their new app store, but they wouldn't be paying per install for the blue app that was in the app store, but was coming from a different Facebook corporate account. i don't know what's the things in theory in practice who knows depends on the who knows this episode is brought to you by factor eating better doesn't have to be hard in fact it can be super easy with factor because they make delicious ready-to-eat meals. Every fresh, never-frozen meal is chef-crafted, dietician-approved, and ready to go in just two minutes. There's so much to love about Factor.

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Vision OS, I should say. Vision OS 1.1 is now available and brings with it. This is the first major update to Vision OS since it was released. And it comes with it, I guess the headlining feature is new personas. Have you set up a new persona for yourself?

I have. I set up a new persona in 1.1. It looks better. It looks better. It looks more like me. It looks a little bit better. I can't really even quantify it other than to say,

I think the expressions. Also, they have the new capture. There's a new accessibility capture, which I used, which allows you to capture your face without holding without holding it up you can put it on an eye level surface which is really nice because then i'm not like i'm not you're capturing me while i'm gripping a thing in front of my face yeah uh and i feel like my tone of my like my my my facial expressions and my arms and like everything is a little more relaxed when I'm not holding that thing and trying to get it to point right at me.

So, yeah, better capture and better capture process. Yeah, I had to do mine like three times, though, because the first two times I did it, my eyes were looking in different directions, which is, that's not a thing that I have, but that was happening, but I fixed it. What I would say, and I think I've seen this in mine and in others too, the skin tones seem warmer. I think that is like a key difference that I'm seeing. I think it was better too.

I think the variation on the face of i think it was better too i think yeah i think it's better the variation on the face of the skin tone was better and they say they say that among the things that's better is skin tone and makeup too i think that they're maybe doing a little more attentiveness to some details on faces that maybe work that got a pass in the 1.0 personas my mouth still doesn't move though they haven't that that's not they did not fix the mouse thing so um anybody who's rolling this out in the enterprise which i guess is happening uh there's mdm now so you can these can be managed devices a bunch of stuff that they're like that's in the iphone and the ipad they're like nope not for 1.0 nope and so like that and the uh i message contact key verification is in there now. There's something that they have not added that is driving me mad.

No profiles in Safari. That's still not been added. No profiles in Safari. So I can't get my tabs. You can't get your tabs? Hidden away from me in my other profiles. It's not good. I have already filed a feedback on that.

I was a good boy. Yeah. But I haven't gotten that. It's weird. They're syncing up features, but not all the features have made it, which is kind of funny. I wonder if they're like, how do we do that interface? Anyway, because the tabs are kind of weird in Safari anyway. Mac virtual display is supposedly improved.

I haven't really noticed, but I've heard people say that it is more stable and clearer than it was, which is nice. This is the new Safari feels snappier, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm sure it's clearer yeah yeah i'm sure it's clearer now i'm sure it's clear you have the wi-fi network so if you're in a hotel or something or an office building somewhere and you have to log in and that happened to me to their terms and i reported that to apple where i think i said this in the show where i couldn't when i was trying to do the setup uh i couldn't connect to the wi-fi network because I needed to do the capture portal. But then my wonderful wife, Idina,

was able to convince the hotel to give me their direct Wi-Fi. Right. That was how I got it set up. And that's how you got in. That's right. The context there, you talked about the Wi-Fi

and then your helpful wife, Idina, and I almost read that as Wi-Fi. My Wi-Fi Idina. Yep. Wi-Fi Idina. Yep, Wi-Fi Idina. Yeah, we'll just run it right in there. Amazing.

And those environments still say coming soon too which i love i love that that's soon is not yet not soon virtual keyboard is supposed to be better i did i haven't seen that it's better it's still awful um and uh you can delete apps from the home view now yay yeah you can take apple's apps out. I immediately got rid of Mail. Goodbye, Mail. I don't want you. No, I use Mail. That's one of the ones I use, which is kind of weird. I use Spark.

Goodbye, Mail. Yeah. But anyway, it's nice to see that there's an update, that it actually has some things in it. I don't know how many more of these are in the line before they just are entirely focused on 2.0, but I would hope that they're going to keep going with the things that are like the real pain points to get us through because because again 2.0 while we might see a beta of it in june will not ship until september and i think leaving leaving this thing out even at 1.1 until september for people

who are not brave enough i mean there is an argument that if you're brave enough to be on the vision pro you can be brave enough to be on the Vision Pro, you can be brave enough to be on the developer beta, but I don't think that's fair. I think you need to keep pushing the 1.0 features forward a little bit further too. I agree too.

If you're Apple. One of the things that I mentioned previously is I was, you know, because the window management is a problem. Like if the device turns off, which my device loves to turn off

like every day, you lose your Windows. And something I was hoping to get was, you know, I could maybe make a shortcut to at least open the apps that I use a lot and then I can move them where I want them. But the open app shortcut action would just open an app and then close it and then open

the next app and then close it. Federico found that that has now been fixed. So the open app shortcut works as you would imagine, where it will just open a bunch of apps and stack them on top of each other, but then you can move them around. So now you could build a shortcut

to open your favorite apps and then you could just move them where you need them to be. That is at least an improvement that they fixed that. And I'm pleased that they did. I mean, clearly everybody who has written about or talked about vision os has talked about how window management is i mean i would say it's a work in progress but that's not fair because it's not it's like there needs to be some because right

now window management is literally there are windows you can move them around you can open them and close them good luck which is okay as a start but like yes it would be really nice if you could save a workspace you could save a set of windows i get it have you been in this position where what you've lost a window like you know the app is is running but you can't find the window and and you can hold the crown down to bring it to the front but it brings all of them all of the front and then you have to relay out all of your things there's no like can i find that app and bring it here because what i find funny with that too is like there are some apps that support multiple windows but you you can't like open a new window if you can't see the current one yeah yeah absolutely it's it's uh i've

also run into with one app i ran into a situation where it was one of these time battery widget apps where I could set it and then I could never get back to the screen. I think they did an update to fix it, but like I could never get back to the screen where you set it because the screen where you set it was the opening window. But once it had a window open, it remembered that that was the clock and the battery count. And you could never get back to the setup screen. And I was like, ah, 1.0 OS. Here we are. Beta apps, 1.0 OS. It's fine. But it all needs to get better. I'm not expecting a new interface model in 1.x, right? I'm not.

But there are some things. At least the open app shortcut does what you wanted to do. It would be nice if some of those coming soon environments actually came soon. That would be great. Soon, but not yet. But not, what are they waiting for? I want my beach. You know, missives from the sun are fine, but that's a reference to an Upgrade Plus episode.

fine but i uh that's a reference to uh an upgrade plus episode uh missives from the sun that that are uh crepuscular and uh on the in the out in the distance in the joshua tree are great but like i want my beach i want my beach bring me the beach i want to be ken or i want to work as ken that's uh there you go that that's in the in the dream house yeah let's do it. Room around up time. Saddle up, partner. Yeehaw. So many segments today. Wow. So many segments.

Look, this is, we're a segment show. Are we reacting to the death of Upshift where we're like, we have to run into the arms of our other segments now that Upshift is gone? There was a different version

of today's show that brought Upshift back, but I got rid of it. Oh, no. Because there was that big Bloomberg article, right? And I was thinking about talking about it, but then decided I didn't want to talk about it anymore. of today's show that brought up shift back but i got oh no because there was that big bloomberg article right and i was thinking about talking about it but then decided i didn't want to talk about it anymore um so that we did it we did it it's it's in the ground we did it and but yes look

we are a very segment focused show i think that's part of the joy of upgrade i'm sure some people don't but i love it as of today's recording there are still no oled ipad pros it was rumored that they would come this month there have been differing rumors some people saying that it would happen last week this week mark german is saying later on in the month so we are now on ipad pro watch over i guess so the next couple of weeks i guess we are i mean i was checking apple newsroom on the hour every hour for three hours today because as I said to Jason before we started recording,

I didn't prep half of this show until like 20 minutes, just like an hour before we started because I didn't want to throw away work, which I've done before. So I will now be doing that every Monday in case all the iPad Pros appear. I've got a few Ming-Chi Kuo reports for you today.

Okay, great. Kuo's been busy. Ming-Chi Kuo is reporting that Apple has cancelled its plans for a micro-LED screen. Micro-LED? Micro-LED? Micro-LED. Screen in the Apple Watch Ultra for, quote,

the foreseeable future due to costs being too high to be economically viable. It appears from Kuo's reporting that this is actually the case for all micro-LED projects from Apple. As of right now, they can't seem to make the technology work for them and be cost-effective, but they hope to return to it at some point. As a reminder, because I had to look this up again today, micro-LED tends to be better than OLED in brightness, color, and contrast.

So it's like a a step past oled yeah i think this follows a report that a uh a supplier of micro led had announced that they had lost a major uh supply or a major contract yep that was the report and then and ming chi kuo rolls in and goes yeah that was apple and kuo also added that like uh he is had the understanding that there are people at apple that got laid off who were working on micro micro led yeah i mean this is this is a honestly it's a speculative thing right where where you're like i think this could beat oled and that we could take this and this could be our new technology and then you go down the road a few years and you say, no, it's not. Right? That's going to happen.

You investigate stuff. It doesn't all pan out. And it sounds like this just didn't pan out or didn't, to use a slightly different metaphor, pencil out where they looked at the cost and they said, this doesn't make sense to do this. So, yeah. At some point, they will get back to it. It makes sense right like it's an it's an advancement technology um but it doesn't look like now is going to be

the time that they that they get it done uh so moving on uh quo also has a couple of reports about the vision pro first off that he expects apple will not make any significant hardware upgrades until at least 2027 for the Vision Pro. He expects a modification of the current model in late 2025 or early 2026, but his focus would be on reducing manufacturing costs and production efficiency. It may not be a public revision at all

unless they make a price cut. So they may change the way they make the thing to make it more cost effective, but it's not like Vision Pro with an m3 in it or whatever it'd be more like rev rev b rev b right and you up really you wouldn't know unless they were like hey the vision pro is 2500 now or it's 3000 or whatever we should we didn't do this uh it's a little too early for the draft of the ages, but I wonder what chip will be in the next hardware, actual hardware revision, not a stealth revision of the Vision Pro.

Is it going to be like the M5? M6? I mean, it's got an M2 in it now. M2 in it now. So if they made it today, it would be an M3. And so you maybe would say m3 into 2025 so then maybe yeah maybe m7 m6 maybe i don't think it's on yeah is it going to be every year for the m series maybe m6 m7 i mean it's just going to be interesting if this is true you're

going to have a vision pro running the m2 replaced by a Vision Pro running the M567. It's a long way to go. It's all I'm saying. We're going to find out. Yeah. You know what, though? We could talk about this later on. Less of an impact maybe now.

Yeah. Well, I was going to say, I think one of the reasons, by the way, that that's okay is I think there are a bunch of things that Apple wants to bring to the M series that they already put in the R1 coprocessor. Yeah. That there's stuff that's like, oh, this will be better at this. And it's like, yeah, we had to build a whole chip for that. Yeah, we did it already. And now we can put it in here. Yeah.

I do wonder, though, if maybe they had that discussion about, like, can we slide an put it in here yeah i do wonder though if if they i mean maybe they had that discussion about like could we slide an m4 in here in 2026 or an m3 or are we going to keep it at the m2 but um but i've been expecting for a while now that vision pro is just going to be what it's going to be for a while right this is not a quick iterate product because it's so far out in the future in terms of what's in it it's so sort of unreal already it could be one of those things where they're not even currently pushing it as far as it could be pushed right and so like there are efficiencies that they could make within the software for example to make it run better and like it's a very powerful machine maybe what it's

doing we don't know but we'll find out by 2026 and see how it's running at that point. Quote also reports that Apple is still on track to launch the Vision Pro outside of the US before WWDC. Quote said that US sales have slowed down significantly currently, but that Apple have sold

between 200,000 to 250,000 units, which outperformed their estimate of 150,000 to 200,000 in this period. It's expected that other English-speaking nations will see the Vision Pro first because that's just the easiest to do, but MacRumors is reporting that Apple is currently working on localizing Vision OS

into French, German, Italian, and Spanish. Right. So there are your next places. You'll probably see the UK, Australia, Canada, and then the rest. MacRumors is reporting via TrendForce that server manufacturer Supermicro is, quote, aggressively expanding its capability to try and secure an order from Apple to assist with their upcoming AI needs. It's expected Apple may be ordering around 20,000 servers this year for iOS 18, looking to spend over $4 billion.

I include this, I mean, it doesn't really say, this is Supermicro trying to do it, but the server industry is expecting Apple will be making some kind of order. This, I feel like, kind of answers the question of it's not all going to be on device. Right, oh yeah, for sure. There's a lot of answers the question of it's not all going to be on device. Right. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Right. For sure. Well, there's a lot of processing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely, I think they're going to put as much on device as they can, but you're going to have a whole bunch of stuff that just benefits dramatically from it being in

the cloud. And that's what I would want to see as a hybrid model, because if they're going to do it on a device, they won't be able to compete. But I want there to be a split, and this is an indication, at least, that there will be that split, which I think is important if Apple really wants to make a good run at this. There needs to be some stuff

that's done on the web. So there you go. Supermicro, the company mentioned in that Bloomberg big hack story. You know what I was thinking about? I was thinking about it. Where's that go?

What happened there? All right. Here's an interesting one. According to Reuters, Apple is hiring Olivia Allaire Dalton, Deputy Assistant to the U.S. President and White House Principal Deputy Press Secretary. Dalton is expected to be taking a senior communications role at Apple. Maybe Apple needs somebody who knows how to communicate with governments.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know what? I didn. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You know what? I didn't consider that. Maybe. Yes. Maybe that's what this hire is for. Could it be?

Wow. Could she be leading their efforts to communicate on the government and regulatory side of the business? Maybe as a senior communications person who maybe could send better emails to people like tim maybe maybe i don't know this could be for like external but also maybe apple is preparing for these fights in america too which i do feel like it's gonna happen uh dalton worked for has worked for joe biden for 20 years apparently so okay so you got to expect this person knows some people and i'm gonna say now that means tim cook you can just you can stay uh ceo for another 20 years it's 20 years 20 more years and according to business insider apple is also hiring joseph cady who's an advertising

executive from nbc universal to join a team working on global ad sales at Apple TV+. These reports would seem to indicate Apple is working potentially on an ads tier for TV+. I wrote a story on Macworld last year. Thanks to my downstream conversations and all that and seeing how the way that this works, that it was inevitable that Apple would put ads on a tier of apple tv plus inevitable literally everybody else is doing it including companies that said they would never disney did did it netflix did it like amazon did it amazon was the last where it's like well maybe because of the it's an ecosystem play maybe nope amazon put ads on there now i'm not sure what this means in terms

of apple tv plus being like are they going to make everybody who's currently on apple tv plus play pay more for an ad free version which is what amazon did or are what they are they going to make a bunch of apple content available for free or for some smaller price or tied into other apple services but with ads but the ad what what for the the shorthand for people who are our listeners who hate ads um i will say is an analysis of the businesses of streaming have largely found that you make more money per user from an ad ad than from a no ad tier, which is why all the no ad tiers are getting their prices raised because Netflix discovered that at their old price tiers, they made more money from the people watching ads than they did from the people

who didn't and were paying more, which is bad news for people who pay more like me to not watch ads because all of that's more expensive now because they, because it doesn't make sense, right? It doesn't make sense that you'd be making less money from your premium subscribers. And if you lose them, you'll probably figure you'll lose them to the ad tier, where you're making more money anyway. So I think Apple can't let this go by. They can't let this go by. They can't. I think one of Apple's struggles is that TV Plus is a largely invisible thing. When you talk to people out there, it is a very small service, and it's had some successes like Ted Lasso, but it is small, and that this might be a way for them

to get that content out there to a much larger audience and then upsell them on the paid product if they made this free or really cheap they need to do it like you know i talk about this a lot but my favorite podcast the town which is about uh hollywood there is the basically everybody that comes on that show seems to say some variation of it's good content but nobody's watching it like apple needs that their the viewership is very low for uh for tv plus stuff and except for tad lasso so they they need to find a way to get more people to watch the content so having a easy to use free tier like i hear people like in my life talk about it a lot where it's like i you know oh i've i referenced the tv plus thing like oh you know i watched ted lasso been and canceled it and so maybe i'll come

back to it later on like people dip and dip out but yeah and it's too bad it's also too bad right because those of us who have it and have seen like it's got a lot of really great stuff like it's batting average is very good there's a lot of really great stuff like if i if somebody came to me and said i have never done apple tv plus and i'm thinking of getting it what should i watch i'd be like oh boy like all the seasons of for all mankind all the seasons of ted lasso ted lasso both the foundation seasons silo slow horse oh my god there's so much criminal record stuff yep uh like there's a lot of stuff there sure yeah i've heard that don't think about too hard is it masters of air is that what it's called yeah i've seen mixed reviews i mean that's for dads who want to see something about world war ii it's great dads need shows too

right there you know dads need shows dads need shows well they should start with slow horses though but then yes they can watch masters of air There's a lot of good content on TV+, but it has a very tiny audience. And that's not great for Apple because they actually do want to have, like, they're paying a lot of money for this content. If there's another way for them to monetize it that will increase the amount of money they make, they should do it. So I suspect we'll get a free or cheap Apple TV tier with ads and not the one that we're all on now. And if they do that, I'll be very sad. And I think that's a bad decision, right? Because I think they're struggling

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So you have published your M3 MacBook Air review. review i have and i wanted to talk about a couple of things with you sure really does it feel any different to the m2 macbook air no it's functionally identical yeah i think if you're i mean it's incrementally faster on multi-core like i can do the number i did the numbers yeah it's incrementally faster on multi-core like i can do the number i did the numbers yeah it's incrementally faster on multi-core 17 or something it's good it's a nice update and you know so the gpus are better the ray tracing like if you're playing games that have a ray you know ray tracing that is going to make a huge difference i do love to trace those rays you got to trace the rays if you want to chase the rays man um dude but but yeah i mean i i had somebody asked me this on social media it was was like oh but but does it actually feel do you sit down with it and go whoa and like i have an m2

um uh midnight macbook air and i have an m3 review unit midnight macbook air and i migrated one to the other and i was using the m3 and i was like okay i mean it's like it feels like home it's the same uh the point here is again no don't upgrade from the m2 to the m3 unless there's the one feature there's the one feature that if you want that feature you should do it but other than that you can m2 is fine like for the m1 it's an interesting argument i think the m1 air is still great and fine but you know you could if you if you're gonna hand it down like for me i think about the m3. I think the M1 Air is still great i might do but i'm not gonna you know other than a roll down like the m1 is great like the m1 air is great so it's really still honestly about people who are on intel and are like i i can't i can't go and in fact that that

ties into one the one like surprising new feature of the M3 Air, which is the ability to drive to external displays with the lid closed. Which I know some people who are on Intel, that's what they wanted, is the run to external displays. Maybe with the lid open. Sorry, you can't do that. But with the lid closed, I mean, two displays is the limit of the base M chips. It's been that way. There are good reasons for it. They would add size and cost to the chip, and it's not what they're solving for. If you want

to drive three displays, you should get a better chip than that. That's just bottom line, and I'm okay with that choice on Apple's part. It was always frustrating that you could run your MacBook Air and lid closed and still not drive a second display it was very frustrating so i'm glad that they've addressed that and i did haul the studio b uh studio display out and put it on my desk here with my other studio display and i put it in like a v-shape configuration so i had display all around me and then i texted casey and i said i don't know how like how you live like this um because it's just not for me it's too many things too many pixels too many k what i what i do here at my recording desk i have one uh display in portrait where i have i have uh audio hijack and zoom like i have all of the apps that are recording on that display so it's always visible no matter what i'm looking i can always

look over and be like yes i am recording so that you know that's what i have it for that's nice yeah i just it's never really been for me but i did i work that way there's some quirks one of them one of them um can be scaled and the other one like scaled up to like more space and the other one really can't um and i wonder if that's just a function of the capability of like the the you know we can do one at 5k and one in 6k and so it may be like that that's too many pixels uh because it has to put the put the the scaled mode it's probably like drawing a larger one and then scaling it down and it can't something is going on there that was surprised me a little but like i was able to run it at sort of standard display mode

uh with those two displays. And you don't need more space. You've got more space. You've got two monitors now. How much space do you need, you monsters? Casey's response when I said, I don't know how you live like this, just send a picture of his three displays. And I was like, God, just go away. But yeah, I was able to do it.

And it was great. So if you're that person who has, uh, especially if you've been hanging out on Intel and being like, I can't give up my multiple displays, I hope this will satisfy you because this is, uh, it, you know, I think it's pretty good. I never really liked, I tried to use a, an open laptop display with an external display for a while. And I never really liked it because it was like, where is the I had it on like a riser and it was tilted and it's still like the keyboard is there. It still felt weird. Anyway, if you're that person, that's a great reason to get it. Also,

can I tell my story about how I spent a lot of money and about four hours of the one day I had to write the article on one paragraph of my review? Can I do that? Can we pause just for one second okay i just have one i have a couple of things i wanted to ask you about okay the display thing all right is there any thing that you are aware of for why they could not enable this on the m2 macbook air

so there's some stuff going around about how they did make a change in the M2 that allowed the system to... So in the M1, the system, it was hardwired essentially into the display. And this story, ATP talked about it a lot last week. The story is basically that even in the Mac Mini on M1, you could only output one through Thunderbolt

and one through HDMI. So there's like a hardwired port. They changed the design in M2, apparently, enough that the Mac Mini could output both on Thunderbolt. They didn't have to go through the HDMI. But the M2 laptops didn't ever pick up that feature.

So the question is, the sort of conspiracy question is, could they do a firmware update for the M2 to enable the same feature? Yeah, that's what I wonder. Because they're doing it with the M3. We know that they're doing that with a MacBook Pro. Because it would seem that they did not build into the M3 the ability for this to happen. Because otherwise that MacBook Pro would have had that feature, right?

Like if it was specifically built in. Except they did sort of build into the M2 this other aspect of it. But they didn't enable it. And then they didn't enable it on the M3 MacBook Pro. But they did then enable it and say that they will back port it to the M3 MacBook Pro. I don't know the answer. I think there are two scenarios that I just want to say for all the people out there who are like, you know, conspiracy theorists. I'm going to lay them both out there.

You decide, you know, how is Princess Kate doing? I don't know. Oh, please don't bring this to my show. I can't handle this. The people in my life, it's driving me mad. Photos were edited, Mike. Photos were edited. Anyway, here are the two scenarios.

Here are the two scenarios. Scenario one is, yes, Apple built this feature into their chip in M2 and yet nefariously withheld it for the entire run of that chip because reasons. But now they're enabling it because reasons. And, okay. I think the more reasonable suggestion, because they never enabled it in the M2, even though they put it there, and yet they've done it for the M3. I think the more reasonable suggestion is that they did that work in the M2 either to push this down the line to a point where in a future model they would be comfortable putting it in and turning it on. Or they thought they had fixed it for the MacBook Air, and then they tried it, and there was something that didn't work well. Maybe not. Maybe, like, you could do it, but maybe it was not up to their standards. and then they tried it and there was something that didn't work well maybe not maybe like you

could do it but maybe it was not up to their standards inconsistent buggy or whatever and they're like shut it down we're just not going to do it for this generation better luck next time let's fix it for m3 i think i i can't like if it worked fine in M2, they would have done this when they rolled out M2. And they didn't. So I think it's more likely that it didn't work fine or it was never intended to work on the MacBook Air, but they were working toward where they would get with the M3. where they would get with the M3. It is, I will admit, utterly baffling that they shipped the MacBook Pro with M3 with this limitation that they could have addressed

and didn't until now or later when the firmware update comes out for it. That's weird, right? But, you know, sometimes a mother just wants to edit her kids' faces so that they're smiling on Mother's Day. It happens. I will leave this show. The show will end. I will walk away from this podcast right now. I'm just getting tidbits. People who don't understand it will

be baffled. People who get it will get it. And it's just, I'm just saying there are conspiracy theories out there and some of them are probably not worth thinking about is what I'm saying. All right. So thank you for answering my question. You question you're welcome partly in a way that i wish you wouldn't have but let's talk about what costs you some money and time okay these things have wi-fi 6e i have like euro sixes that don't support wi-fi 6e and i thought to myself should i get faster wi-fi in my house like it's been a little while since i bought new eros should i do it like faster wi-fi is nice although most of the computers won't take advantage of it but eventually they will okay so i bought a new ero max 7 which the box came. I'm like, this is a very large box for one Eero.

They're very big. It's huge. They're very big. It's huge. It's giant. It's like the size of a dinner plate. There were multiple reasons why I didn't go with the 6C stuff when I was buying stuff when we moved into our house last year.

Partly it was cost because it is much more expensive right now. Yes. But the other was they're so much bigger and it's like one of these things where at some point they will get smaller and cheaper but that point is not now yeah so i decided to do it i i did it and the reason and it's fine it's it's for my work um i set up the m3 macbook air and it got basically the same speed as my ethernet and i was like wow okay that's great right like for me yeah faster file transfer inside the house is good but like the number one thing is if i can get the same up and down to the world as i do on my ethernet connected mac studio we're we're living large here it was like gigabit up and down that's what i want great doesn't always work that way it was inconsistent but likeit up and down that's what i want great doesn't always

work that way it was inconsistent but like i was able to get it to work that way and uh my my macbook arm 2 while pretty speedy was not as speedy so i'm like okay all right worth it i can talk about it i wrote a paragraph about it the problem is that i changed my network configuration, Mike. You know what happens then? Everything breaks. So my internet connection broke. It turns out that the way my fiber router was set up is it was forwarding all of the traffic to the Mac address of the old Eero that I had replaced. Oh, God.

So I had to connect a MacBook air via an ethernet dongle directly to the, uh, to the fiber router and change it to point. And I was like, what is happening? Why is it not working? Why is it not working? I could get internet out,

but I couldn't get any traffic back in. What is happening here? Turns out, um, I figured it out. I set that to the new router and it didn't work. So then I rebooted them both. Rebooted the fiber router, rebooted the Eero.

Didn't work. Rebooted, unplugged everything, including the other Eero. Put it all back in. Didn't work. Reset the Eero. Remapped all of my network settings for all of the like port forwarding and reservations and stuff. Didn't work. And I was so frustrated and I was like, okay, let's just. And so I unplugged everything again, left it for five minutes, came back, plugged it in.

Didn't work. I'm like, what is happening? I looked, I looked at the, at the router settings. I'm like, I Googled for it. at the router settings. I Googled for it, and they're like, do this. It's like, I did that. That's what I did. I Googled that last time I set this up. Why is it not working? And then I did actually the thing that cured this, the thing that solved it, which is I sent an email to Eero support. And I said, why is it that when I swapped one of your Eero's for the other, all of a sudden I can't get any traffic forwarding? But the moment I sent it, I thought to myself, this isn't the Eero. The Eero is not seeing any traffic.

This is coming from the router. The router is still not, even though it's set to forward it, I reset the router. It still didn't work. I'm like, what is happening? And I unplugged it and replugged it four hours in. I've, I've rebooted these things so many times. And then I was reminded of the number one thing that I always learn and then always forget about network stuff, which is, you know what solves network stuff, Mike? What is it?

Time. Because the next time I unplugged them and replugged them, it all worked. And presumably, if I had done nothing other than pointed at the right thing and unplugged them and replugged them a few times over the course of four hours after four hours because something was cached somewhere even through resets it would have just started working so um and zach is saying fun with with like time to live concept like at least from a network

perspective uh it shouldn't be because the time to live was set to be very low i was i reset the device that was forwarding to the other device it didn't matter though somewhere somewhere in there in the connection between those two devices there was a thing that really wanted to forward all the traffic to the wrong place and that just stayed there until suddenly it went, oh, right, this guy. Done, solved. I wasted four hours taking screenshots of the Eero app so I'd remember what ports were being remapped to what on my... It didn't matter. I just needed to wait.

I just needed to be patient. I need to leave the house for four hours. Anyway, that was four hours I could have been writing a MacBook air review that I wasn't, but yeah, no, the wifi is, it's really fast and I think covers the house better because it's an enormous thing with many, many different antenna in it, uh, different bands. So I look forward to the day that I do buy a device that has wi-fi uh 6e in it because it'll be fast hooray how does the uh midnight coating hold up to fingerprints now okay new anodization seal the same one that's on the space black and apple's like aha it will be

better for fingerprints it will be like don't worry about the fingerprints i'm gonna be that guy and say i have two midnight macbook airs now and let me tell you they both cover with fingerprints it's fine that's i don't they don't bother me but they're also not invisible they are present i wonder if maybe part of it is that the space black is lighter than the midnight they kept the midnight shade is exactly the same as it was on the M2. And so I wonder if maybe one of the reasons the Space Black on the MacBook Pro is not so black is because the blacker you make it, the worse the fingerprints look. And so they did the anodization seal on a darker gray, and it doesn't pick up as much. The Midnight MacBook Air, even on the M3, I'm sorry.

pick up as much the midnight macbook air even on the m3 i'm sorry like i try to say i might say that it's fainter or something but really it's it's not any different i mean like for me at least i was i i put fingerprints on it immediately um wiping them off seemed pretty similar to maybe they wipe off a little bit better but like i'm struggling to try to give you anything here other than to say in my experience it like if you if you the only thing preventing you from buying an m2 macbook air is that you can't bear the fingerprints on the midnight macbook air do not buy the m3 midnight macbook air because it still has fingerprints on it pretty much the same sorry i know you spoke about like um speed and and that kind of stuff a little bit already but there was something that i kind of really took away from the charts in your piece which is just

that you know there are year-over-year improvements with these m-series chips but apple silicon really is enforcing the idea that it's kind of like two years is what you should be looking at at the like the very soonest before you would want to update yeah if you need to really push it, other than very specific things in certain areas, like there's the video encoding stuff that went on the M2 that wasn't on the M1. So if you're doing things to Apple's codecs, encoding there is built in a processor block in the M2 that wasn't there in the M1.

It was only in the M1 Pro and Max and Ultra. So it's got a new, i think it's a neural engine that has more cores or it's a newer neural engine i mean there's stuff in there and the ray tracing is in there right there's stuff but unless you're a very specific use case that requires these kind of updates even the m1 i mean if you're pushing if you're pushing your CPUs or your GPUs from an M1, you will get, it's like 30% or 40% faster. I mean, it'll be better. I would argue that most of the people who are in that situation might want to think about like a MacBook Pro because you're pushing it that hard. Because the MacBook Air is a fanless laptop that is pretty good for most people, but it's not going to do it for everybody. So I don't know. I would say what I said before, which is coming from Intel, then sure, it's a no-brainer. Coming from the M1, even there, I think the M1 Air is fine.

I think it's still fine. So I think apple silicon um we've seen two revisions now and i probably wouldn't give a strong buy recommendation to an upgrader coming from m1 even though i i like the design uh i think the m2 air design that's now in the m3 is is really good um i i you know i like the screen i like the magsafe like there are lots of reasons but again the m1 air is still a good computer did you find the quote world's best consumer laptop for ai to be especially good at ai tasks i mean no examples that i was given i mean like it's great in the cloud because it just uses the cloud it's got a neural engine the ai test that i use the most is optimized for gpu and not for neural engine um but it works i like it's entirely just it's it's no i think not really any better than the m2 was it really is just that apple knows that everybody's talking about ai and ai laptops

and i think intel is pushing this concept of the AI laptop. And Apple's like, wait a second. And really, it's that decision of like, do you hover above the fray? Or do you feel like you're getting beaten up about AI, which Apple is? And therefore, you're going to say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Our laptops do that, too. We just haven't talked about it. And so now we're going to talk about it.

But as it was, I ran a whisper transcribe on them and it was faster but again it was it was absolutely uh destroyed by a whisper transcode on a 40 gpu macbook pro right so yeah i will make apple's argument for them a little bit and just say that, because I know a lot of people have been poking fun at it now, so I will now argue on the other side too. The majority of tasks that people are doing with AI right now are web-based tasks. And the MacBook Air is thin, light, great battery life. Safari is great to use.

Fast Wi-Fi. Fast Wi-Fi, right? You can make the argument that for the majority of tasks that people are actually doing of ai the macbook air could well be the best laptop for this because i think it's the best laptop browsing consumer laptop right because the macbook pro is yeah they're basically consumers are using chat gpt consumers are not putting their own models onto a machine and running tasks. There are some apps that do it for like photo stuff.

And there are some and there may be more in the future. But yes, I think all of us, all of us close focus Apple people look at this and we kind of laugh at it. But like what they're doing here is I think Apple has felt like there's a perception that Apple doesn't do AI, which is incorrect. I think Apple has felt like there's a perception that Apple doesn't do AI, which is incorrect, and that they haven't talked about it, and that arguments have been framed around AI for laptops and for computers in general, and that laptop, that one of the arguments that's being used against them is, well, this is an AI laptop. Apple doesn't do AI. And so Apple's basically said, okay, if those are going to be the terms of the debate, so be it. We're now going to talk about AI. So AI has become essentially a checkmark on a box, right? You can't not talk about it, even if you check every box. But you know, for those who don't know, back when there were boxes, the check mark on the box was obvious

things. But if you didn't put it there, people would think you didn't support it. And so you ended up with an enormous list of things with check marks next to them because you need to reassure people, yes, it does that. And AI is now a checkmark for laptops. So yes, it's in the press release. And does it change the Mac experience at all? No, not at all. But it also took Apple to actually start using the words, right? They were refusing to use the word.

Apple was very much like, this isn't really artificial intelligence. It's more like machine learning. And we prefer that term and all that. I was on that camp. I'm in that camp. And the world says, yeah, this isn't really artificial intelligence. It's more like machine learning. I was on that camp. And the world says, yeah, but we're calling it AI. You're like, all right, I guess we're calling it that now. It's just, look, I didn't like the word app. I preferred program or software.

And you know what? At some point you're like, all right, we're doing apps. They're apps now. Yay, apps. Would have rose by any other name, hallucinate so sweetly, Jason, you know? Does anything remain missing from the MacBook Air for you? What are the things you would like to see Apple

address with the MacBook Air that they've yet to? The webcam is fine. I mean, they're doing a lot of processing, but it's still a 1080 webcam. I would like them to put a higher resolution webcam with a larger field of view and center stage. But they haven't. And I know it's very thin. I get it.

But, like, I want there to be a better camera up there. You know, I like Touch ID great when i have used windows laptops like i have a surface go that you know is terrible but it runs some windows software and uh every time i open it up it's like oh jason and it logs me in because it's got face recognition and i think this dumb old windows convertible has face recognition and my Macs don't. And maybe it's bad and maybe it's not up to Apple standards and all that. But I feel like the real reason there's no face ID on Apple laptops is because they want to engineer the screen part to be so thin that the sensors don't fit in there. Or more accurately, they can't reuse their sensors from the iPhone and the the ipad and therefore they just don't bother and there should be face id on mac laptops and and and honestly and on mac desktops like on on uh

or on the studio display right like there should be there should be face id on the mac and they're just gonna say this no one's gonna like it jason but i'm gonna say it all right you ready this is gonna be very unpopular but i'm gonna say it i would right, you ready? This is going to be very unpopular, but I'm going to say it. I would take, to get a better camera and face ID, I would take a camera bump on a laptop. Whoa. I'd take it. I want them that bad.

I have camera bumps on my phone and I'm fine with it. Put a camera bump on the laptop. Give me the features. Yeah. I said it. Good. Good for you. I will take the bullet you know yeah uh you know you can you can you can flog me on social media it's fine so you put a list in here

and i and i actually this is what i was going to say so thank you for channeling me or we're in agreement on this but the other thing that's out there that you put in here that's absolutely true i feel like at this point we're on the same wavelength. Is that, yeah, we lose track of it and every now and then we mention it, but I'm just going to say it again. There's a whole conversation that we've had here many, many times before, but it needs to be said again, which is, you know what would be great? Especially when my Wi-Fi was broken and I was trying to figure out whether things were reachable from the outside or not. And I had to use my iPhone, which was not ideal for setting settings in a webpage. Cellular option on laptops is, is I keep thinking that they,

it feels to me now, like they're just trying to put it off until they can integrate cellular into their chips, which keeps getting kicked down the road. But like I find cellular and my iPad so useful and people always say, I'm going to say it here because every time we mentioned this, people were like, Oh,

you can just tether. I hate tethering. It makes my phone hot. It kills the battery. It's inconsistent. Or you've got a wire attached to another thing. I don't, I,

I don't like it. I have a cellular iPad. I'm very happy. I have to connect to tethering every three times to get it to work one time this is like this is constant for me you know it's like you connect it's like doesn't work connect doesn't work connect oh yeah it's a it's a real good enough option which is like oh there's this thing that's kind of quirky and strange but it exists and therefore you shouldn't need anything more and the answer is no we we deserve better we deserve mac users deserve better mac

users deserve to have cellular options on the laptops just like ipad users have and uh and get on it like again like this should be in there i'm sorry it should be in there as an option and i don't want to hear yeah i don't want to hear about tethering and i don't want to hear about well they would have to pay a fee i don't care so they have they probably have a thousand dollars but like put it give me the option give me the option of having cellular on a on a laptop it would be great and i know that there's os things but they have been making progress on the os side in controlling data usage by runaway you know apps they're doing more there and i would also say you know what if you're that concerned about data usage get an unlimited plan plan. But, like, get me the option.

Let me have the option of putting a Mac on cellular via some means other than connecting to an external device. Give us what we deserve. Sell radios and camera bumps. That's what we deserve, all right? Just give us what we deserve on our laptops. But, all in all, M3, MacBook Air, good laptop, right? Good laptop. Yeah, because the M2 was great.

And this is just that, but a little more recent. It's the latest model of the M2. If you remember from the Mac draft, many people said M2 MacBook Air, best Mac. I love it. And so this is just that again. And there was a whole, like, there's the discourse going around. And I'm like, oh, I's the discourse going around and like oh i i miss the wedge design i have no i have no time for this discourse i have no time for it i i don't either

like i mean sure people are nostalgic for for all sorts of stuff that is in the past and gone but this is this is i like this design better like uh it's great if you want to keep the design of a 10 year old laptop that's great it still works use it you know what i mean like we If you want to keep the design of a 10-year-old laptop, that's great. It still works. Use it. You know what I mean? Like, we don't have to keep making new ones. You want an old laptop so bad?

Use the old laptop. But new laptop better than old laptop. That's what I say. I agree. If you enjoy this show and would like more of this show, there's a very easy way to do it. Go to GetUpgradeplus.com and you could get ad-free longer episodes of Upgrade each and every week along with a ton of other

benefits, including hours and hours and hours, tens, maybe even hundreds of hours at this point. Actually, yes, definitely hundreds of hours at this point of exclusive content for RelayFM members. Crossover shows, we do behind the scenes episodes of what we call backstage. Me and Stephen get together every month to talk about what's going on behind the scenes at RelayFM. We're spending a lot of time right now focusing on the planning of our 10th anniversary live show in London.

We're talking about that on backstage. There's also Spotlight where Kathy Campbell interviews a RelayFM host every month. You get all of this and so much more if you subscribe to Upgrade Plus by going to getupgradeplus.com. But of course, the main thing is each and every week you get no ads in Upgrade and more content. This week in Upgrade Plus, we're going to talk about the transcriptions feature that has come to Apple Podcasts, our experience with it, our impressions, and what we want Apple to deliver. Go to getupgradeplus.com and you can sign up.

You'll be supporting the show and getting some excellent content for yourself. getupgradeplus.com It is time for Ask Upgrade Questions. Kevin Wright Sinner says, Have either of you tried FaceTime on Apple TV? I tried it for the first time this weekend and i was blown away by how good the experience with continuity camera was i have okay i've done zoom and facetime on apple tv do you do it a lot um i do it some although i

will say it's a little telling that um that we didn't last night we We did our zoom with Lawrence family and we just did it on an iPad sitting on the table instead. There's two reasons for that. One is I didn't want to go get the camera mount and attach it and connected and do all of those things. And we were doing a bunch of other stuff and watching the Oscars and making dinner. And it was just another thing.

And the other thing is sound honestly, which is, I feel like when the audio is coming out of the TV far away and the microphone is on the phone far away that you end up sort of like shouting and then there's a room echo and it cannot be as necessarily as good. Some of that, I think FaceTime is better at this

and that Zoom, strangely, because Zoom does this all the time for other Zooms, is maybe lacking a little bit there. And maybe it will get better over time. But I found that that was a little echoey and that people were complaining about how we sounded, which is like, that's not acceptable. So it's a work in progress there. I will say, again, Apple or one of its partners who, you know, if Apple doesn't want to do it, sometimes they're like, oh, we'll have Belkin do it or whatever. Somebody needs to make a continuity camera,

right? Because there's no USB-C on the Apple TV anymore. There's no USB on the Apple TV anymore. They took it off. So you can't just plug in a webcam to it and use that. You have to use continuity camera. So I would like somebody to make a continuity camera that I can leave plugged in sitting on top of my TV so that whenever we get a FaceTime while we're watching TV for my daughter, my son, other members of my family, I can just say yes. And boop, it pops up on Apple TV. But now it's like, oh, oh good your phone and move it over here and like i just don't want to do it so um and we could like use continuity camera like on down on the table and look at the tv but then we're looking above the camera which is also

weird and not ideal so so my answer is i think this is a really good feature and i think center stage looks really good with the iPhone camera. And I think it works really well. And I love the angle it gives where you can see us and we're sitting on the couch and it feels like a sci-fi movie. And I like it a lot, but I've had some audio problems, especially with Zoom. And I hate the fact that I have to go through all the trouble of getting it and balancing it.

My phone falls off because I didn't balance it right. And I'm like, I'm going to break my phone trying to set up continuity cameras. because I didn't balance it right. And I'm like, I'm going to break my phone trying to set up continuity cameras. So I want there to be a continuity camera sold by somebody that I can leave plugged in, sitting on top of my TV, please. This isn't what you're asking for,

but I just wanted to put it in here because I saw it. I don't know why I find it funny, but I do. The Bell can have an Apple TV, like a TV focused mount, MagSafe mount mount thing now where you can put it on top of the tv or stick it to the wall or whatever um i just find that funny i don't know why but it's funny to me you know i haven't i have not used it and i had not considered which i have that mount it's good okay oh yeah the belkin it's just their it their mount for, it's mount for TV essentially, right?

It's for Apple TV 4K, but like it's, maybe it's a slightly different version of the same mount, but it looks just like the mount that I have that goes on the studio display. I mean, it's fine. But it can also be stuck to the wall, this one, which is what makes it different. Oh, okay.

Well, that's nice, I guess. Mounting bracket for, okay, the keyhole mounts and mounting bracket added for added stability that's that's good um but again then you got to still put your phone on it right like and it just sits up there otherwise and i just i kind of want there to just be a camera up there that would be a lot nicer i don't know have you used this at all i have not because okay um i didn't have a way to do it that made sense uh especially with the way that we have things set up like we have our tv mounted to the wall right and so like ah yes it's just like how would

i even do this and then it's like i'm just gonna put like the phone or the ipad in front of me i'll just talk to the ipad that's in front of me which has i've been doing for exactly and so like there i do see the benefit of this product but there are some weird places i'd never even considered the thing about like if it's with your phone and your phone's all the way over there if you have that kind of living room which i know you do you have quite a long living room how are they hearing you with the phone uh yeah it's a good feature it is a good feature but it's not one that i've used i i think i think it's only going to get better i think you you got to do a lot of audio processing on the on the microphone to get it to isolate the voices, which I think that they're doing some of already.

Like I said, I think the FaceTime experience actually was better, which leads me to believe that maybe like Apple really tuned this and Zoom is sort of they're new on the platform. And I think they're maybe using things that are tuned for other environments. And hopefully they know that and then that they're working on it. But like, I really like the idea i would really like to be able to make all of those calls that we do with our kids and lauren's family in the living room i'd like to do those all on the tv i think that would be really nice because when i've done it it's really quite pleasant but it's not it's not all the way there it just isn't. Tom says, or asks, do you think the iPad Mini would ever get Face ID

and the best possible screen available? I translate it to this, basically, do we ever think Apple would make a pro version of the iPad Mini? I don't think so. I don't think so anymore. I think the Mini's always going to hover in the mid-range. I think it's always going to be like the small version of the mid range iPad.

Yes. And that they, it's a combination of giving it a decent price for people who are price sensitive and want a smaller one and a decent, you know, price for people who want a small iPad that is decent specs.

So I think it's always going to be the small mid range iPad is my guess. It will follow that. So I do expect it will get Face ID at some point in the future. Like I expect years into the future, the iPad Air will get Face ID, like probably.

And so then the Mini would probably follow. And OLED maybe in the future and the Mini would get OLED too. But like, I feel like it's always going to be on that kind of iPad Air level which while I would love a all bells and whistles version of the iPad Mini I don't think that's what this product is like I just don't think it is that anymore because look it's going to be very hard to argue uh an $800 iPad mini or whatever it would be. That's just a hard argument to make.

Ian wants to know, what is your backpack of choice for commuting of a larger than usual technology loadout? I usually need to keep two 16-inch MacBook Pros with me due to work. My word. And most bags aren't very accommodating.

I'm expecting neither of us, and I especially know for you, will be able to answer this question specifically. But I do have of us, and I especially know for you, will be able to answer this question specifically. But I do have a recommendation that I want to make for myself for a larger technology loadout. Like, I don't know if any bag

in the world can accommodate two 16-inch MacBook Pros. I would love to know what Ian needs that for as well. But I want to make a recommendation for my kind of traveling bag, which is where I have the most technology.

On a daily basis, I've used a bag from Bellroy for years now called the Bellroy Tokyo Tote Pack, which I really love. It's like a tote bag with backpack straps. Great. And I was using for travel the bag that all the nerds use,

the Peak Design, right? So that became the nerd bag for a while, the Peak Design Everyday Backpack. I got frustrated with that bag over time. It has a very specific way that it wants you to use the bag. And I ended up not fitting with that. So I went with a while ago another Bellroy bag, the Bellroy Venture Ready Pack. It's a big bag. Big bag. And I use this when I travel. And this bag is so big. How big is it,

you ask? This bag is so big. How big is it? You can fit the Vision Pro travel case in it horizontally. It's that big. You can fit the Vision Oh no, your Vision Pro case.

You can fit my Vision Pro case that's cheap horizontally in my backpack. You're talking about the pillow, the Apple pillow. Yes, that can fit horizontally in this bag, so you can still put more stuff in this bag. I would say you probably could fit two 16-inch laptops in this bag. It would be tight, but you would do it.

This bag is really, really nicely nicely made i love bow right stuff and it's basically what i wanted which was it's got some pockets but it's got just a very large open space where i can put lots of big stuff in there so that's what i use that's what i recommend i just want to recommend this bag to everyone i recommended it to our friend underscore and he bought it and he loves it too so don't just take my word for it you can take underscore's word for it as well and i'll i'll just say again my backpack is is a 25 year old backpack that i loved so much that when it started to fall apart um i contacted the company and they're like we don't make that anymore we'll send you a new one i'm like but i but I like this one. And they sent me a new one. It's like, I don't like this one. I like this old one. So much so that I went on eBay and I found one that was the same and I bought that. So I'm actually not using the same backpack I've used for 25 years.

i'm using another version someone else's backpack that i've used for 25 years our friend james thompson also has this backpack and still uses it because it's great but they don't make it anymore so um i can't really recommend it but i i can fit stuff in it so that's a backpack from the late 90s that uh has had a vision pro in it so that's pretty cool get a time machine yeah go back to 1999 go to brent haven say i want your computer backpack you know what computer laptops from 25 years old probably can fit two 16 inch macbook pros in them because laptops were bigger so yeah it's not as well padded as i think modern backpacks are. But yeah, I mean, I have fit big laptops in there. You're probably right because the laptops were bigger back then. You probably could fit.

So, okay. That's my answer then. That's my final answer. Time machine. Time machine. Or eBay. If you would like to send in a question that we can answer with the words time machine, go to upgradefeedback.com.

You can send us in your feedback your follow-up your ask upgrade questions and your snow talk questions i just want to say as always thank you so much to our listeners who send me in so much interesting stuff every week and i just want to say again i love so much that people use the form the form makes my life so much better i don't want the email it's terrible to get this stuff on social media. The form is good. Form is good. So thank you to people that use the form. If you want to find Jason's work online, including his wonderful review of the M3 MacBook Air, go to sixcolors.com. You can hear Jason's shows here on RelayFM and theincomparable.com as well. You can listen to my podcast here on RelayFM. You can find my product work at CortexBrand.com.

We're on social media. Jason is at Jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L. I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. If you want to find the show, it's at Upgrade Relay. You'll find us on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube where you can watch video clips of the show. We're experimenting with our YouTube channel. Please go subscribe to the YouTube channel. We're experimenting with our YouTube channel. Please go subscribe to YouTube channel.

We're playing around with some fun stuff there. Thank you to our members, the supporters of Upgrade Plus. Thank you to Delete Me and Factor for their support of this week's episode. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell. Time machine, Mike. Time machine.

Time machine.