Upgrade - 516: I'm Suppressing My Feelings

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

from relay fm this is upgrade episode 516 for june 11th 2024 this show is brought to you by delete me uni pizza ovens fitbod and vitally my name is mike hurley and i am joined by jason snow hi jason hello mike i'm just going to start out immediately of a snow talk question okay so we ended up through some scheduling difficulties needing to record a day later are you happy that we had this extra time i six and one and a half a dozen of the other i really like it when we are jumping right on it That we had this extra time. I. Six and one and a half a dozen of the other. I really like it when we are jumping right on it.

Yep. And it's like quick reaction. And I feel like people. There's a certain audience that's come to kind of expect the quick. Reaction right on the spot. It's all my news training from back in the day. Like we're just going to get into it right away. Yep. However.

There was a lot. And one of the reasons we couldn't do this get into it right away. Yep. However, there was a lot. And one of the reasons we couldn't do this right after the keynote is that I just spent two days basically at Apple Park and had eight different briefings after the event and got to hear more and learn some more details and sleep on it and think about it a little bit. And those are to our advantage, right? When we do the quick hit right after an event, what I always think about when I'm listening to later in the week podcasts is they get the benefit of that time and everything is topsy-turvy. ATP is on a Monday, Upgrade's on a Tuesday, Connected's on a Friday. I don't know what's going on anymore. on a Monday, upgrades on a Tuesday, connecteds on a Friday. I don't know what's going on anymore. Anyway, we're in a different slot, but it does...

I would always choose to be as early as possible, but it didn't work out that way, and so we get the luxury of having some time to think about it. I would say, I mean, look, you know me, I really like to be early like you do too. I will say

in maybe this one instance, I'm actually happy to have had the time because once WWDC finished yesterday, I knew I could not put my feelings together. And I have needed like, so, you know, as well, one of the other reasons that we can do is I couldn't make it this year. And so we're on completely different time zones. So trying to find a time after your briefing days was complicated.

And we ended up finding this time now. But I have spent like 12 hours today going through our show document and reading and thinking. And I got a lot of thoughts. I'm sure you do too and i think that this wwdc maybe more than any in the 10 years longer than that that i've been covering this professionally i think this has actually been the one that has needed the most thought um because i could see that because of the ramifications and there's a lot of emotion flying around our corner of the internet

right now in a way that is different to either a i don't like the feature or they didn't do enough or what happened to the ipad we have like huge existential questions that we may be wading into over the next few weeks few months um and this is just the start of those. Summer of existentialism. Oh my gosh, Donny, even. If you would like to send in a Snow Talk question of your own, I've been monopolizing for the last two weeks, but we will get back to your questions.

Go to askupgrade.com, which is not usually the domain that I say, but will work. Or you can go to upgradefeedback.com and you can send them in there. We should go through the draft results very quickly. Sure.

So basically, the way that I have this draft, I would give the top line score, and I would say in the kindest possible scoring, mostly on my side, I think, would be 10-9 with you as the winner. So congratulations, Jason.

Thank you. The streak is over. You are now draw champion. And I will let you know, before I even sat down so our video viewers will be able to see, I have already changed the banner in honor of you. Well, I appreciate that. I am no challenger. You're now the challenger.

Well, thank you you these were all pretty clear except for the one that wasn't yeah but we went back to the tape even for me there was one or two where that's what i said so i'll go through mine real quick so all right siri becomes more conversational that's something they kind of said but didn't show um yeah but they said it but uh ai summaries of notifications and content i got yep uh free placements of apps and widgets i got siri perform actions inside of apps ai created emoji ability to rearrange apps in vision os ai open ai partnership uh some ai features labeled as coming next year i I didn't get standby mode for iPad

or a redesign notification center in macOS, which I've actually heard, even though they added the iPhone, they still haven't changed it, which is like, oh, so you've like tripled the amount of notifications

I would get, but still let me see three of them. The one that I think I was being kind to myself on, if I was to have given myself this point, which I did, but only because it didn't make a difference to the score is ai improvements to spotlight search which kind of felt like one of those things where you can see that's going on but they don't really well

and when we talked about when we talk about safari later i'm not sure that there are any because i think maybe what there are two different things happening and one of them is in spotlight and that's their search engine and i'm not sure whether there's ai improvements there or not but it doesn't matter yeah so that one is like best case scenario i gave myself this point but if we were on a draw i would have sat and talked this out with you sure sure also can i just ask ability to rearrange apps and envision os was that in the keynote or was that only something we dug up afterward uh i think it was in the keynote but even if it wasn't even if they didn't say it in the image they weren't in the order like yeah in the images that they showed you could see there

were um they were in a different order okay yeah what are they called the apps that are not native native apps there were some of those because they show differently. Also, it was on one of the Bento slides. I've been told by the Discord. Kate says it was on one of those Bento boxes. Okay, sounds good. And then multiple Mac displays in VisionOS. I was talking to John Gruber afterward,

and he said, you know, when Mike made that pick, I winced because I thought, this is Gruber. He's said, you know, when Mike made that pick, I winced because I thought this is Gruber. He's like, the problem with multiple Mac displays and Vision OS is you've got to do arrangement and you've got to move the mouse between them and you could see it. They were like, you know, I know people want more of the Mac, but we're not going to give them multiple monitors. We're just going to give them one gigantic super wide monitor instead. It's like, OK, all right. For me, I got what I wanted though. You know what I mean?

Like more than the draft pick, I wanted this feature and that will work for me. Yeah, absolutely did. So for me, my number one top super strategic Mac OS pick that I was sure was going to happen, system settings redesigned in Mac OS, it didn't happen. So I'll ask you, did it not happen?

Because they redesigned settings on iOS. I think what I would say is they didn't do it in the keynote, right? Like they didn't show it in the keynote, so it doesn't count. I don't know if they made changes to the settings app in macOS or not, but it's certainly not in the keynote. And they didn't call out like any of the kind of major, I mean, maybe they tweaked it a little bit. Is that a redesign?

I don't know. So anyway, that was a shocker and sad and a loser and not auspicious at all for me to start with my number one pick, not making it, but I got all, but the last one, I really,

it was really quite a sandwich here. Yep. Um, calculator app on iPad, OS new, new environments and vision.ora bora is the name of the new environment it's the beach environment yeah the other environment remains coming soon apparently or has disappeared no it still says coming soon it still says coming soon

wonderful um xcode gets ai features absolutely a bunch of them uh users can change app icon colors in ios boy can they ai powered tools for editing photos mike i got through this we we went for an hour and like 30 minutes and i thought oh my god how have you not announced that you can take somebody out of the background in photos how is that still not a thing and then they said oh and here's photos and there's this thing. Like, okay. Oh, boy. Wow. That was a moment. AI enhancements to the iWork apps. Now, this was our controversial one, but we went

to the tape. Because you said, well, they didn't do it. And I said, well, they generated an image in Keynote. And you said, well, that's not really like it's a system-wide thing. And we went back to the tape and I said, look, if they say here's a text generation thing and it works in pages and other things it still counts because it's in pages and that's essentially what happened but with pictures and in keynote but so i got that one ai powered

transcription and notes or voice memos yes some photo some iphone ai features limited to the most recent pro phones which i thought was one of the riskier ones here, but that is exactly the limitation is the 15 pro for all of Apple intelligence. Topographic maps, which David Smith was sitting behind me and groaned as one of his five features that got Sherlocked yesterday. AI use for message composition in mail in many ways. Yes, absolutely true. And then it's, you gotta laugh mike more information on carplay nope there is a carplay session at wwdc but not in the keynote yeah so there is more information but it doesn't really seem like from what i've been able to glean there

is anything groundbreaking it's like hey look at all our dials i don't actually i'm not actually sure anyone's gonna to use it still, but they're showing it off now as if it's getting ready to ship. So that means it's 10-9. The other reason that this was very contentious and carefully done is that you won the tiebreak because I set it at 1-50 and it was 1-45, basically. They went back to Tim at like one 41.

I thought, no, there's not going to be nine minutes of Tim. I've lost that one. Um, and, uh, so,

so 10, nine for me is the score officially. And if you want to find out whether the winner or, uh, was there a winner of our first annual California bear trophy announced an upgrade plus stay tuned for Upgrade Plus where all strangeness will be revealed. And if you're like,

hey, what is Upgrade Plus? What is a longer ad-free version of the show that we do every single week? You can go to getupgradeplus.com to find out more. And if you already have subscribed, thank you so much. We appreciate you. I will say I really liked the rule amendment for the wwdc draft i don't i'm still

not sure that it would make sense for other drafts because of just the nature of knowing in advance what they're going to talk about category wise but i i am very on board of keeping this it added some some spice to the draft that i appreciated i agree we will look um in future drafts we will look a little more carefully at how we want to deploy various rules just to keep it good and entertaining and also maybe a little strategic and um we'll keep we'll keep doing it but i i agree i think it worked better than i expected, actually. So I was very happy with it. All right, let's start with iOS 18. So I'm picking our biggest things here to talk about. There is definitely stuff we will not get to today, but we'll start with home screen personalization, which includes free placement of apps and widgets, but still within a grid system,

but you can put them anywhere you like within that grid. Color tinting of apps and widgets, but still within a grid system, but you can put them anywhere you like within that grid. Color tinting of apps and widgets. And you can hide names of apps and widgets by using what is called the large option for icons, which makes them look pretty silly, if you ask me. I don't like the way that app icons look. I think they're nice. You think the big icons are nice.

I'm not, this is not a, you know, I'm not saying that. I only glanced them briefly, but I think that it's a valid, um, a valid choice like any other.

I don't know if I would choose it either, but I think it's nice to give people the option. What I will say is I like the option of large icons. I'm, I'm not sure that it's like that i would that i need large icons and hide names to be the same option you know like i think large icons is an option hide app names is an option you know i prefer that but one that the main thing i want to talk to you about is the uh the color tinting yeah i don't think it looks good in any circumstance that i've seen so what i had hoped and kind of what mark german had suggested is

that you might be able to uh tint certain groups of applications or individual applications but you actually just tint all of them. And I have yet to see a screenshot or have been able to produce something on my own. And this includes what they showed in the keynote that to my eye looks visually appealing. I don't think it looks good.

So I saw some stuff on Apple devices that looked okay to me. It's not my look, but I thought it looked okay i don't love it apparently um the so i kept theorizing that they're gonna like extol the virtues of this to developers and all that they went the other way and they said you know what if a user wants your icon to be green it's gonna be green and there's nothing you can do about it as a developer. And that's the other way to go is Apple saying, no, this is a user thing and users get to decide.

And your corporation that makes this app does not get to decide what their phone looks like. And it's like, fair enough. I don't, I wouldn't use it, right? I wouldn't use it. And I wouldn't use, I probably wouldn't even use the dark mode icons to be honest but certainly it's nice that they have those because everybody gets to choose everybody this upsets me because i use dark mode and i use dark and like a lot of my widgets get changed into dark mode but now it changes them to light mode unless I choose dark mode. And then I have all dark icons, which isn't necessarily bad,

but I don't like some of the visual balance of some of the dark icons. I think Apple is deciding that dark means completely black, which it doesn't need to. So some of the icons look like they've been inverted. But for me, Apple's icon design, I don't care about this for right now. I remember the days of ios 7 those icons are going to change um but something that i would what i would really love to see if they were to make any change is to just let me individually choose to tint certain apps

and certain different colors like i i don't know why it's all apps or one color one color that to me is a it's quite a thing to do i think to go to that level yeah i i wonder how this will be received i'm not sure it solves the problem that they were trying to solve no um i'm okay with them trying it because i think they do need to do stuff like this, but I'm not sure that this is the way to do it. And there are things developers can do to make their apps look better in these modes, but it feels like even that is a little bit less than it probably should be.

But the big takeaways and the good takeaways is the free placement of everything. People are going to love that. The fact that you can resize widgets like on the fly, so you can choose an app, you can make it into a widget, and then you can choose the size of that widget just all on the home screen without adding new widgets. All of that stuff is good. And we'll talk about it later, but it's also on the iPad as well as on iOS, which is a big surprise because that's not how these things usually go. Right. Let's see, what else? There's one other thing about this.

I'm glad that they're doing it. I agree that it doesn't necessarily look great. I hope that developers will get more of a say here and that maybe this will evolve over time. There's one thing that I thought they were about to announce in the keynote that they didn't do and that isn't in there. And I don't understand why they didn't do this. So follow me here. I'm going to give you my pitch. Apple has had machine learning that can detect the subject of a photo for ages. And they're using it in a bunch of ways. On Apple Watch now, the Photos app dynamically will place the subject, place the time in the right place around the subject,

place the time in the right place around the subject. It's really very clever. They had that picture of the dog and they're like, hey, you can put icons to the left and the right of the dog so you can see your dog. And I thought what they were going to announce was, we know that that's your dog and that your dog is the center of the picture.

And so you can just say you know move my icons you know assort my icons and have them move them away from the dog i'm like no you got to do that manually i'm like you guys know what the subject of the photo is in the background why would you not offer an option to move the icons away from the subject as like a little magic kind of like oh yeah we cleared the way for your thing no no no you guys should just do that by hand come on don't do that so i was surprised by that because it's like technology that they've got and it would be a lot easier to do so i i was baffled by that i asked somebody at apple about it they're like oh that's a good idea i'm like like, yeah, yeah, it is. What are you doing?

Oh, well. At least it's a starting point, right? Like, we'll move these out of the way for you, and then you can move them around. And maybe you could, no, I was going to say maybe you could have things overlap, but that wouldn't look good. I don't think that looks good.

No, but wouldn't it be nice if you had, like, five icons on your home screen, and it was like, oh, this picture is of a thing. Clean up and it goes and it pushes them all around. That would be nice, but it's not there. Control Center got a lot of work. Brand new design with pages, which is great. There are kind of manual pages.

You have like buttons and music and home, but you can also create your own pages past that as well. So you can have tons of stuff going on. Yeah, down below. And there's, if it seems like it's a little disappointing where it's like, oh, now you've got to page through things, they have it very cleverly done where if you keep your finger down as you swipe on control center, you can just sort of keep swiping down and go through all the pages, which is a nice shorter gesture. If you know you're going to page three you can swipe down from control center and then just sort of keep swiping down yep and you'll get to page three which is nice and you can put in tons of buttons you can change the sizes of those buttons and even

third-party apps will be able to donate kind of buttons to control center yeah third-party apps and control center that's really good that really good. And being able to say, I want this one small, I want this one big, and you just drag them out and they do that. That's really smart. Good feature.

And they will also, not only will they show on, you can have them on the lock screen, you'll also be able to change the camera and flashlight buttons that are on the lock screen to something else. If you wanted to know

that there was a dedicated camera button coming to the next iPhone, this is it for me. Like the fact that after all this time, they're like, yeah, you can change that. Like, but why? I don't worry about it. We just thought you might like to.

And also you can put these on the action button as well. So all the buttons are getting all the stuff. And again, that's another thing which tells me that maybe that capture button will be somewhat configurable as well possibly right should be nice yeah and the action button is so yeah maybe so the two um we actually asked some apple people why just two why not four if you want down there and and their response was basically but there's two okay all right whatever yep i don't as we all know jason these things are constrained by the laws of nature yeah that's right there can only be two down there master

and apprentice i'm excited i mean i've played around with it so i so just as a as an update for i put uh the beta on my ipad mini just because why not okay and i've also have vision os 2 running so that's kind of like my little update for you i'll talk about that later on okay and i've also have vision os 2 running so that's kind of like my little update for you i'll talk about that later on um and i i really like the control center design and i love the expandability of it i honestly can imagine i'll be using it way more i could imagine for shortcuts and and all kinds of stuff like you know i could imagine a situation where i don't have uh shortcuts on my home screen anymore as a widget because uh i could just put them in control center i would expect and go wild

of it there uh jason you are the man who wrote the book on photos oh boy so i would like to get your your take on the big redesign of the photos app app. So yeah, I had a bunch of people around me looking at me and being like, oh, good luck for this summer, Jason. Yeah, they redesigned the Photos app. A lot of it's the same. It's just in some different places. But I think Apple struggles with the fact that there are two different ways to use the photos app. One of them is I need to find a photo I took. And the other is I would like to look at photos that I've taken that I maybe haven't visited in a while that make me happy and show those to me because I've got tens of thousands of photos and I don't know where they are and what they are. And please, Apple, help me see that. And they've been dealing with this for a while. I think this is, I mean,

this is another attempt to deal with it. Basically, they're trying to deal with the fact that this one app sort of has to do two things. And I personally view photos as more of a utility that I go to in order to get a photo and not as a place that I go to just get inspired by nice photos from my past. But Apple clearly feels that some people do, which is fine. I mean, I use lock screen or widgets for that, but I will occasionally do that. But I think Apple figures a lot of people, this is what they want. So they built this system where they're trying to push the, they've gotten rid of their tab bar entirely,

and they're trying to push their collections into more visibility so when you open it it's the photo grid but like below it is a scrollable um you can scroll up it's sort of like a two-pane thing where if you if you move down you'll just get the photo grid if you move up you'll just get all of those different curated collections and they've added a bunch more um and then they've also added a thing where if you you'll just get the photo grid. If you move up, you'll just get all of those different curated collections and they've added a bunch more. And then they've also added a thing where if you swipe to the right from the photo grid,

there are other kind of like auto-playing featured items and photo of the day, and you can pin things there and you can pin things down below. And it's interesting because there, and there's some AI features in there too like the ability to ask it to create a memory movie for you based on on plain text which is kind of interesting i like that there's some stuff there's some stuff in there but i do think that um apple struggles with this fact that photos is both a utility and a, you know, discovery tool

at the same time. And it doesn't really make sense for there to be two apps, but how do you balance the fact that there are these two very different use cases? And I think that they struggle with it. So I'm looking forward to seeing how they've put in some of their new ways of, of, uh, of exposing, um, photos from your past, because it's true. We all have so many photos that, that there's a lot of opportunity to delight you with photos in your library that you otherwise would never look at again. And that's great. So they're trying again to do that um it's a challenge and it'll be in the details right but i think bottom line is they want to be able if you open the photos app they want to be able to at least offer you some things that might delight you and a grid with a tab i think they i think what they're saying is basically that a lot of people didn't switch away from the

library tab and therefore they've moved it out of there gotten rid of the tab because they really want you to see all the work that they've done to try to delight you with surprising fun pictures from your last trip or of your kids or whatever so when i first saw the design i was like well that's bold like that's quite bold um but in playing around with it i I'm quite a fan, actually, for two reasons. One, when I use photos, I am often never in the place that I want to be. You know how they say with USB, like USB-A, you plug it in three times. You always end up flipping it around multiple times to get what you want. I'm like, do I want to be in Recents or do I want to be in like library?

Like where am I supposed to be right now? But the thing that sold me on it is the app and like what it shows you and where it shows it is incredibly user customizable. Even the carousel at the top, you can choose what goes up there. Like what categories of things you can add your own things like if you want to put a person up there so like every time you swipe to the third person maybe it's your partner they can be there or when you go down it's like what types of uh collections of photos do you want where do you want them to show how many of them do you want there to be so for me i like the amount of customizability there is and the app is really asking for you to do it too like there are big customized buttons all throughout

the application to to get you to customize those views and kind of make it what you're looking for so i i surprised myself that in actually using it uh i i'm a big fan of, I'm a big fan of it. I'm a big fan of it. Messages. Not only did they redesign the emoji tapbacks to be all colorful, they did this in service of adding, of the tapbacks I should say,

to be all colorful, they did this in service of adding the ability to add every single possible emoji as an actual proper tap back to iMessages finally we did it everybody we did it yes congratulations i actually get i actually did a slow clap at apple park when they announced this i did the slow clap bravo finally after last year's decidedly disappointing well you can do some stickers that look like emoji um whoever lost that argument last year won it this year because here we are so hooray uh text formatting so it's rich text formatting to messages which is a nice addition

that i wouldn't have expected. Because what I would have expected is also what they did, which is effects. So you can have fun text effects that affect words as well as the whole message themselves. Individual words, yeah. Not the whole message. Right. A schedule to send later feature. So if you want to send someone a message, but

you feel like it's the wrong time of day, you can schedule it to send later on. And also, big surprise, messages via satellite using the SOS features to just straight up send text messages. And I believe I saw posted somewhere that there is also the ability to do satellite video calls of emergency services

is a thing that's been added to iOS as well. No? No. So there's two things going on here, and the word SOS is part of the problem, so let's separate them. Please. So satellite, that's when you have no carrier and you want to send a message, and previously it was sort of like an emergency message or a location. And now you can just send them a message.

You can do texts back and forth. You can do emoji reactions, whatever. It's all in there. And it'll also do SMS, not RCS, but it'll do SMS. So if you have to reach somebody who does not have an iPhone, you will be able to do that. There's some sort of gateway there that will take it and put it in SMS and send it on.

So that's great. So that's the satellite feature and how they're going to pay for it. There are no limits as far as we can tell. Like it's unclear to me what's going on. If it's just that Apple's deal with global star is so amazing that they can just continue to float this for iPhone users or whether there's going to come a day where they say, no, no, no, now you have to pay. We'll see. But the other feature is SOS, which is my understanding what that is, is that's when you're in cell range, but not your carrier. And that feature, there's now the ability for the emergency services when you do an emergency SOS call to do video, to request a video call with you on that cellular network. But that's different, right?

So there's a law, at least in the United States, I assume other places too, where if you're in cell range, but not your carrier, you still get to make an emergency call. Like they're not going to say, oh, you've got Verizon, not AT&T, so you must die, right? They say, no, no. If you cannot see Verizon, but you can see AT&T, you can still make an

emergency call. If you've ever taken a deactivated phone and started it up and it says emergency SOS, that's what it's saying is it doesn't have a carrier on it, but it can still make an emergency call. Legally, it has to be able to do that. So I think they add a video to that feature, but that's not the same as the satellite feature. Thank you. Yeah, I saw the words SOS and I put them all together, but that's not the same as the satellite feature thank you yeah i saw the words sos and i put them all together but that that's not accurate and apparently the dynamic island animation thing for where you point your phone to get the satellite has been improved too so that um but this sounds this sounds fun i i need to go somewhere um out of range and send somebody a text, I guess.

Should we move on to Mail? Yeah, let's do it. Mail got some features here and a bunch more later. The standard iOS 18 features is categorization, kind of like what Gmail does. It's also what the app that I use, Spark, does. So it will take your email and work out if it's basically a person, a transaction, an update, which I'm assuming are newsletters and promotions. Interesting, what's updates and promotions? Does it say that out loud? I guess we'll find out. And they also have a screen where, like, imagine they showed an airline, right?

You've got messages from an airline, and you can tap in to see all the messages that airline has shown you in one kind of view. These are nice updates to Mail just on in one kind of view these are nice updates to mail just on their own i think these are these are good features um i'll be very keen to see how the categorization works without apple intelligence because i think both yeah right there are versions of this that i reckon are in both ways. And this is just machine learning as opposed to Apple intelligence AI stuff. They're adding this feature, but then I think it will get better with the AI features.

Yeah, I'm unclear on exactly what's going on here, but this is Apple actually trying to... I actually think the grouping is more interesting. Show me all my um you know messages from a specific airline i think that's really really smart this is this is good that is a helpful thing yeah again spark that i use it also does this like you can essentially creates a custom search so you'd be like show me all the emails from this sender and it creates like a custom search and just shows you everything to and from, which is really good.

But it's not as visually appealing as Apple's one. Right. Is. Right. And there's a passwords app. There is. Tell me about the passwords app. Apparently it's entirely in SwiftUI.

And that's why it's going to come out on iPhone, iPad, Mac, and Vision Pro. Yep. Makes sense. It's sense all of them it is the thing you know it's the stuff from settings pulled out into an app there are some um other features here and there like uh on the mac there's a menu item that you can have that you can call up and look up a password and copy it or whatever if you want to do it that way it's got like some stuff that was previously in keychain access like uh wi-fi passwords you can get in there too there's a bunch of different

things pass keys um i think functionally not a lot has changed from apple's existing thing i i i know some people even at the event who were like oh can i do this thing now and and the response from apple was well actually it's been able to do that for several years now. I think the functionality's been in there, but the idea here is that it's now an app so you can point people at it. I was trying to explain to my mom last week

where the passwords were. And I said, oh, you gotta go to settings and you gotta scroll. Then you gotta choose password. You can put in your password. Then you can see it. But if you leave, you've gotta go go to settings and you've got to scroll. Then you've got to choose password. You can put in your password. Then you can see it. But if you leave, you've got to go back to settings. And like, it's just easier to say, go to the passwords app.

It's just easier. It's better. I've heard from people who are like, oh, you can already do it. I've seen this too. And it's like, gang, if I have to go into three levels of settings to try and see if this feature exists, you cannot hold it against me that I maybe and see if this feature exists you cannot hold it against me that i maybe don't know the feature exists come on gang come on team let's get together

here um it's better if it's explicitly out there plus that lets them have more room to have resizable window on mac and uh filters so that you can view all of your wi-fi or all of your pass keys or whatever. I do think it's interesting for people who are coming from something like 1Password, which has thrown a bunch of security features in. It's not a one-to-one match because Apple has a different place you put your credit card. And Apple has a different place that you put secure notes. You put them in notes.

So it's not a one-to-one with one password, but if you are only using Apple's ecosystem or Windows, because it'll work on Windows, you can do this and you'll get all those benefits and it just comes for free as an Apple user. Not on Android, though. No, forget about that. But on the rest of them. And it looks pretty good. Like I think that this is, the whole idea here is the world is better if more people are using a password manager

and doing smart things with passwords. And that I fundamentally believe that you could argue, oh, well, it already did this thing. But like, yeah, but it was hidden away and now it's not. And I think that that's good. This is a thing that Apple probably

should have done a long time ago. I'm very glad that they've finally done it yeah i i'm happy this feature exists for everyone in my life for me uh i i have a lot of team accounts in one password and obviously it's one password has become more focused on teams as their thing. I don't imagine Apple recreating the features that I have of the way that I can assign groups of people and add it to them. And there's just a lot of administrative features that 1Password has. The beautiful thing about Apple's system is that they do have definable groups that you can put logins in yeah but there's also like yeah here's the thing now you're doing it to me like i know everyone in the discord is doing to me one password works with

teams on varying devices and has a lot of like security stuff around like well what if this employee goes this way or did it like just trust me what i need is one password okay even though it's great that the passwords app has it um it it's it well maybe i'll look into it and you know what maybe i was wrong the whole time. But what I understand is it seems like, I don't know, it seems like passwords is more for your friends and family than your co-workers is what I'm saying, right?

Okay. At least that's the read that I have. But, you know, maybe we'll find out. Maybe I'll have to go on a journey of discovery just like everybody else, you know? we'll find out maybe i'll maybe i'll have to go on a journey of discovery just like everybody else you know that's okay this episode of upgrade is brought to you by delete me privacy is important to us i mean just a couple of days ago i had a pretty convincing spam call where somebody had a bunch of my information i want to make sure that as little of my information is out there in the world as possible because i I want what is private to me, what is personal to me, to stay exactly that.

Do you ever wonder how much of your personal data is out there on the internet for anybody to see? It's a very uncomfortable thought, especially when you consider having too much information out there can lead to identity theft attempts, phishing, harassment, and unwanted spam calls. But now you can protect your privacy thanks to Delete.me. Having your personal information on the internet can feel a bit like leaving some doors open. Delete.me will make sure that you keep that door locked and your information safe inside, so you don't need to worry about waking up one day to find out you have been compromised. This is why I use Delete.me. It removes my personal information

that I don't want online and makes sure that it stays off. Delete.me is a subscription service that removes your personal information from the largest people search databases on the internet, and in the process helps prevent potential ID theft, doxing, and phishing scams. Delete.me does the hard work for you. You'll even get a regular personalized privacy report showing you what information they found, where they found it, and what they removed. But it's not a one-time service. This is monitoring regularly on your behalf. In fact, last week, I got my most recent Delete Me report, and it was great to see all of the data brokers that Delete Me was contacting, where they were in the process of having it removed, and also reinforcing to me what they

already have removed. I loved it. I do love it. I look forward to every single one of them. It makes me feel better. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete.me.

Now, a special offer for listeners of this show. You can get 20% off your Delete.me plan today when you go to joindeleteme.com upgrade20 and use the promo code upgrade20 at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to j-o-i-n-d-e-l-e-t-e-m-e dot com slash

upgrade20 and enter the code upgrade20 at checkout. That is joindeleteme.com slash upgrade20 and the code upgrade20 are thanks to Delete Me for the support of this show and RelayFM. Okay, so we've got to get to it. It's Apple Intelligence time.

So we're going to break this down into two categories. We're going to talk about the features. Then we're going to talk about the feelings. The feelings, yeah. then we're going to talk about the feelings the feelings yeah so just let us talk about the features first alright just give us some grace talk about the features

and then we'll talk about everything that well a selection of things that could come from these features so first off, I respect the bravado of the name Apple Intelligence. Yep.

Why not? I think that's great. Go for it. Live your best lives. The thing that I find funny about this is they have broken away from using the Apple logo just so they can hit the pun of AI, right? Like, because they always have Apple logo thing

when it's called Apple something, right? But here it says Apple, spelled out Apple, because then you get the AI. And again, I'm just like, you know what? Great. Like, yes, do it. Why not? I think it's hilarious.

They're like, in this one instance, they're like, no, we're not going to use the Apple logo because Apple logo doesn't start with A. Apple logo starts with Apple. So we need it to say A and then I. And I think that's very, very funny. I'm going to break this down. Yeah, I guess I should give a warning here,

which is there's been some confusion. And some of this is Apple's fault. Everything we talk about here, unless we very specifically specify otherwise, is using Apple's machine learning models. There is a partnership that was announced. announced the ability, I would even phrase it more broadly, the ability for other machine learning, other AI systems to be called by the system in specific instances with your approval is first turned off by default. And second, if you turn it on, you get these warnings. Those are where you will see, example chat gpt which is the first announced partner although you know craig federighi said the name google gemini on stage

in a post event thing for press and then said but we've got nothing to announce which is like okay i don't know what even how to reach that but but um so i've seen a lot of people are like oh open ai is powering all of apple stuff it's not it's really really not so just to be crystal clear here unless we say that's open ai it's not it's not this is apple building its own stuff and they've got their own models and they're running on their own hardware and their own processors. Yeah, actually, we will make it simple. The very last set of features we will talk about is the ChatGPT thing. So until we get to that, this is all Apple stuff.

All Apple. Including their own writing tools. So this is a selection of transforming text stuff, which goes from the ability of taking your own text and changing its tone and changing its length to some basic generation of text that they're doing with Apple intelligence. But it seems like by and large, it's about taking something you've written and summarizing it or changing its tone. A lot of what's going on in this and in other stuff like mail messages, it's changing what you've done using your text as the foundation. So it might be as simple as a grammar check with suggestions, which is a thing that they offer. It's a writing checker. It's like Grammarly basically, or make this more professional. But again, it's using your text as the basis from it. So it's going to sound a lot like you because your text is the input. It's not sort of a random input. So yeah, there's a lot of transformation

going on here. I think people will find some of this stuff valuable, probably more of it. For me, I'm like, oh, well, letting people get a quick grammar check that's built into the OS is probably a smart thing. And it's not the worst thing in the world. I mean, their example was very funny because it was like super unprofessional cover letter. And they're like, well, let's make this a little more professional, where it would have been like a wise mentor saying, maybe don't phrase it this way. And that's basically what the writing tool does. Notifications.

I've received quite a lot of love. I'm excited about this. They try to surface priority messages based on their context and content. If you get a lot of notifications from a specific app, like a group chat, say an iMessage, it will try to summarize what's going on inside of those notifications. This is great. And then also a new focus mode called reduce interruptions that tries to highlight just the most important notifications all of this is great i love this uh notifications will always be a problem i think maybe the only way we can ever try to deal with them is having ai deal with it for us yeah i mean it's the idea

of having essentially a personal assistant who's looking and saying this one looks important this one doesn't look as important and then the one that made me laugh is the one where it was a group thread where um it boiled it did like a summary of what was going on in the group thread it's like 20 messages about somebody got a dog and you're like okay i can read that later right like that's why that one's popping off and that's just fine that's just fine uh we mentioned mail earlier so mail will also be using Apple intelligence to highlight priority messages. I guess this is trying to within, say, like in your like the primary group, which is like of people you'd assume or like the things that it thinks are important to you. It will then try to highlight the messages within that group and push them up to the top so it's like a second filter on top of those filters

i would assume it will and i love this feature of it will instead of in an email just seeing like the first line or two of the email it will show a summary there instead that is good that's a fantastic feature it's one of those things where I'm like, oh, yeah, that like preview is pointless because it's always just like, hi, you know, like it's not actually really that helpful. And also kind of neither is a subject line. Like this is actually, I think, a better way of showing me what's inside of an email message, I think is good. a way of showing me what's inside of an email message, which I think is good. If you get a really long message, TLDR of that, fantastic.

Are you kidding me? Brilliant. And then I really like the ways they're doing smart replies. So I've seen this in other applications where it tries to basically draft emails for you, but it should try and scan an email and then ask you questions to help make that reply better, which it's cool. Right. The idea there is, and they did show this in the video, but it's the idea that, you know, essentially you're being asked to fill out a form, but you're doing it in an email and it scans it and says, look, this is what you're being asked is, are you bringing your partner and, you know, chicken or beef or veg, vegetarian option,

right? Like, okay. And you just pick them and it makes a thing that says, Hey, thanks. Here's my answers done. And you send it off.

And that seems not unreasonable. You mentioned audio transcripts earlier. They're going to be in the notes and the phone app. So we could be on the phone call for someone and it can it can transcribe the call for you which is cool i think it says i think they said they they let the person on the phone know that yes it's disclosed that a that a transcript is happening that you're recording essentially the phone call yeah image generation is being done in a bunch of ways uh image playground which is both an app and a feature right yes it is i'm suppressing my feelings mike

i'm suppressing them yeah yeah yes i have some feelings about this but i'm going to suppress them for now. Oh, I have lots of feelings about it too. We will allow those feelings to escape soon. This is essentially, for what I can understand, and I assume you may have seen this, it will create images based on some prompts that you give and that you adjust the style. And it can also allow you to use people

in your photo library as the prompt. Is that correct? I would say it's even more simplified than that, where you can give a prompt, but what it seems to do is break it up into some particular tags. Or you can select from a bunch of tags and it will generate images for you. So there are real guardrails on this. Like there are the Apple really like limits you in style and then, and it tries to atomize what you do if you do a text prompt into little bits, but it gives you a picker. So you can just sort of pick things. I think because they believe that people who use generative AI image stuff, one of the problems is building a prompt. And so they tried to put a whole UI on it where they limit what their, because it's their engine again, what their

engine is capable of and what they want it to do and what it's good at. So they're trying to put this whole interface where you can like swipe around and say you know here's a superhero cape is like literally a choice and you choose a picture of somebody in your photo library and you choose you know something else and then it shows them all and it generates it you can say no not like that or give me an alternate one and you swipe and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there but while you can do a free form, even the free form seems like it kind of gets exploded into individual concepts, which you can then remove if you don't like them. So it's going to be, I need, you know, we're all going to need to see how this works in practice, but it seems like they're trying to, you know, solve the problem of how do you generate images via ai without having it be the old command

line approach which isn't that great and they're trying to do it in a different way that's tuned to their particular image generation model yeah i guess they're using what you're giving to write the prompts behind the scene basically right right? Like the prompt engineering is happening behind the UI. Yeah. Yeah, they're building, they're not making you program this feature, right? They programmed a UI on top of this feature that you use. Genmoji.

Hi, I'm Gen. Oh, we need another name, right? We need another name. This is my emoji. This just doesn't need a name like this. It doesn't. Really? So you can describe what you want an

emoji to look like this will also allow you to create kind of like personalized me emoji again of you or people in your photo library these can be used as stickers but also in line in text messages as emoji right i mean do you know how they're doing not really not really okay it's really an image that's being sent but they've worked it out in imessage so that it shows as an emoji right uh it looks it's styled like an emoji and it's the right size of being an emoji this is like slack custom emoji and discord custom emoji right exactly but it's not it's an image yeah that looks like an emoji that's exactly what it is so that's what's going on here um and i don't love the name but i really like this feature because it's to me it's like oh you build an image generator based on what emoji look like.

And then it will use your prompts, also the context of the conversation you're having to suggest emojis that you can send. And I like it. Look, this whole category is Apple. I feel like this is the impulse that caused us to have Memoji and Digital Touch, maybe. It's this, hey, things are fun, right, everybody? This is fun. We're having fun on our phones, kids. You know, it's great.

And sometimes those impulses are mistaken. But I think the Genmoji stuff, I kind of like it. I kind of like how constrained it is where it's like, look, all we're doing is we know our model knows what emojis look like. And then we can make more of them. And they look like emojis, but you don't have to go into Photoshop and build a whole like custom emoji and upload it to Slack and all of that. It just happens and you pick it and then they get it and we all have a good laugh because now you're able to make an emoji that doesn't exist. And I think in contrast to Image Playground, I really like this feature because it is very specific and constrained and solves a problem and they can be used in those emoji tap backs. And like, I like it. I think, I think this is exactly the right amount of fun that Apple should be doing.

Well, I, I agree with you there. Like most, like basically entirely, if it was, if it always looked like emoji, like there was some of the emoji that they were showing in the keynote,

just didn't look like Apple's emoji style. Like there was like a dinosaur on a skateboard or something. Yeah, well, it looked close to it, but you're right. I think that's the danger of it is you end up with something that does not look like an emoji. And it just looked like a little AI generated image that was tiny. But then they would show one where it was like, oh, here is like our emoji face of cucumbers over its eyes and it's like yeah no that that looks right yeah yeah so that's my question i think and the funny thing is these models are like they can swap out models so like they may show us stuff now and over the course of

the beta process and ongoing development they're like yeah you know they may tweak it and say no no no it really needs to be much more on what emojis look like, um, or not. But I would like it if, if it looked like these are emojis from an alternate world where the Unicode consortium got very strangely specific about something that it didn't in real life.

That's what I would like them to look like. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you. And then image wand using the apple pencil so you could draw something with your apple pencil and then you circle it with the image wand and it takes what you've drawn as the basis for creating an ai image this is similar to i think

what microsoft just showed off with paint because you could you would draw something and then paint you make a sketch and and it scans it essentially and its model turns it into an image of what it thinks based on not just the image but the context around it right the text around it and all of that and then it it does a it does a generation and this is uh again i think that i get what their impulse is here um i think it feels a little less successful, but I get what they're trying to do. So imagine the largest pin possible. We're putting that pin in this,

and we'll come back to it later. Huge pins in it. Later on, we'll both work together to pick that pin up. There's feelings to be determined at a later time. So we already mentioned these, but Photos has a cleanup tool, which is essentially magic eraser and the ability to make memory movies based on a prompt which i really like right like

make a movie for me on the trip that me and adina took last october right yes like that's great rather than me going through and choosing it at least give me a starting point like i think this is a nice way to take out some of the tedium appointing something like that together exactly no that's good it's a good use it does make me think i'm surprised that there are no features like this in music where it would be a really good way to make a playlist great great point yeah why is there no music playlist generation but it's not so that's a bummer but uh it's here and yeah that that cleanup tool again i want to applaud that they did it i also want to boo because they should have had that five years ago

yeah i mean this technology is not new um they should have had that five years ago i think the reason they didn't is probably because somebody inside the inside the photos team or in charge of the photos team was like no no no we're no. We're going to preserve the sanctity, blah, blah, blah. But like it's what your users want. It's a good thing to do. You don't have to do it in an evil way. You just, you know, let me clean up. And it's like it'll detect, but you can also just circle or mark over what you want to remove and it

will do the job exactly as you expect, which is great. And I have to come back to, there's not even been a, a touch-up tool on iOS before in photos. So this is, I mean, we'll see how it works in practice,

but finally, I guess is all I can say about it. Finally. All right. Siri, our friend. I have just a HomePod Fire off behind me, which I was expecting. Of course. It looks new.

So the UI has now changed from the glowing orb to highlighting the edge of your phone of a kind of multicolor glow, which I really like the look of that. You can also type to Siri now by double tapping the bottom of your screen. And so anything you can ask, you can now type. This now feels like type to Siri has been a thing they've had on and off over the years. Sometimes it's accessibility,

sometimes it's more of a feature. This feels like a time where maybe you would want it more than you ever needed it before, right? In that way, because we're now more used to typing to these types of assistants and chatbots. Siri can give you advice on device features, which I think is cute. You know, suck the manuals into Siri and spit them back out at users. Like, why not? That's a good idea. I think that's a really great, like,

let's use this system to help people directly when they say, how do I do this? And be able to give them actual actionable answers of that. That's great. Like, if that works, that's great. I'm just like shouting at my HomePods behind me. This is something that would be a treat for anybody that watches the video version of the show.

They'll just see me like turning around and shouting at my home part so you know i'm trying my best over here uh i'm gonna give you a quote from uh apple's uh kind of apple intelligence page richer language understanding and an enhanced voice make communicating with siri even more. Have you experienced anybody communicating with Siri? Because I didn't get this vibe from the keynote, really. No, that's not something they want to show. I had several demos. I have never seen somebody interact with Siri with Siri speaking. Because I was really struck by that in the keynote, that the presenter kept asking and Siri just kept showing.

And I said, well, that's not my experience. No. Yeah, it was. No. Yeah. No, they're clearly unwilling to show that right now. So it probably doesn't work. And then there are these three things that go together, I think.

On-screen awareness. So you can ask your assistant to do things that you can see and it will do it. Like send this to Jason, add this address to Jason's contact. Right. There is personal context awareness. So your assistant, I'm trying to stop saying it now, will know things that are on your device. You could be like, oh, I saw that Jason sent me an episode of ATP recently. Can you find what one that was? And it should be able to go find it. And also to be able to take actions across apps. So you could say like, can you take this,

turn it into a PDF and send it to Jason in Slack in theory. And this uses a combination of Intents and SiriKit. I'm expecting or maybe hoping you've seen some of this stuff in action. Yeah, I mean, a little bit. This is stuff that's not going to ship

anytime soon. Yeah, this is all they're working on it most likely these things what i want to do is explain a little bit about how it works so they have this um semantic index which is basically like it isn't it's like a search engine index it's pointing at where all the stuff is in your uh device it's catalogued, but it's not that content. It's the pointer to it, but it allows you to search it quickly. So the semantic index is there and it's encrypted and it's only accessible by intelligence, by the Apple intelligence stuff. So they've tried to wall it off. It is a map of everything that you've got on that device in terms of content,

but they only want the AI system itself to have access to it. So there's some security considerations there. And then what happens is something, and it may be another model, basically decides what relevant content is in the semantic index and then passes that to the model for analysis. And that might be a non-device model or it might be a remote model. And then it processes it and gives you the results. So there's a bunch of stuff going on here, but they are trying to build with the semantic index something that is essentially an index to the complete set of knowledge about what is knowable about you based on what's on any given device.

And I should also say, for those who are wondering, is this like everything that's knowable about me and Apple's entire ecosystem on all my devices? The answer is kind of no, on all my devices? The answer is kind of no, because like with photos, the model is running and the index is being generated based on the contents of your device, which is why, for example, when you do a search on your iPad and your iPhone for something in photos, you don't always get the same results because those items are cataloged by a machine learning model individually. They don't, like, it doesn't happen once and then all the data gets synced among your devices. It happens on device. And the way that the phrase on device, it sounds good, right? But it cuts the other way, which is on device. It's not on your devices. It's not your

personal data. It's on a device, which means if you're thinking, well, does that mean that every Apple device I have is going to be doing its own churning away on my data store in order to build a semantic index? So I'm going to have a different semantic index on the iPad than the Mac than the iPhone? The answer is yes, which technically it may be necessary to do that because Apple, you know, because to distribute machine learning stuff across devices may be really impractical. But it's also like it's wasteful of computing power, right? If you've ever gotten a new iPhone and had it chunk through your photos library and you're thinking, but my iPad's got the whole library and my Mac's got the whole library. Why are you processing it again?

And the answer is because it has to. And there are things that sync that are like things that you prefer or things that you favorited or things that you've trained. And presumably some of that will also come across with some of these Apple intelligence features. But it's just something else to keep in mind that on device means on a device for better or for worse. But they are trying very hard to have the privacy and security issue thought of

where the semantic index exists, but it's encrypted. And only the AI process has access to decrypt it. And so we'll have to, there's gonna be, there's a white paper about this. There's gonna be a lot more technical detail but they this is not something that apple just kind of came up with in the last month there's a lot going on here and it does seem like at least to start with the types of apps and things that can happen are actually going to be somewhat limited for the intense part of it yeah it feels very much i mean intense app intents have existed for a while um for like

shortcuts and people don't support them and it is there are a few places in here where apple has done a very much like a carrot and stick thing where they're like all right would you like siri to do things with your app for the user well the that'll only work if you give us app intents. So you better write some app intents. Otherwise, your app is not going to get used by the system and therefore is going to be less helpful to your users. So do it, right? And maybe that will cause more of them to build these app intents, which are essentially kind of quantizing functionality in their app and handing it to the system and say, these are things my app can do if you ask. And that allows the new model to run and the new Siri to run and say,

oh, okay, you want me to do this with this thing? I can do that. And they gave an example of like an email with superhuman. But the idea there is like, it doesn't have to be Apple mail. It could be a different email app. And if it's got the right intents and it's got everything worked, it'll just, it can do that too. It knowsents and it's got everything worked, it'll just, it can do that too.

It knows that if that's your email client, it'll use that one. And it's got the ability to look at the intents and et cetera, et cetera. So there's, there's, you know, they're,

they're using some technology that they already built on an app. Intents shortcuts is part of the Siri team. This is all already Siri stuff and make it like even more reason to do this. And it seems like the on-screen stuff, is it like, is it UI scripting? Is that what it's doing? Maybe it's hard to know. It's not. I've seen no examples of it pressing anything or controlling anything.

It's looking at the screen. And doing things. So the model is able to look at the screen, but I don't see it like clicking buttons or things like that it's using it's using things like app intents to make those controls happen okay it's not driving the screen it sees the screen but it's not driving the screen but it can't like yeah okay like if slack hadn't enabled it it can't be like send this to jason and slack even if i have slack open it's going to be interesting to see how this rolls out and so yeah so slack would need if slack's got an app intent uh to send a message and the ability to specify who the person is that can be read like it would be able to do it but that's the kind of stuff that's going to be required at least in this

iteration i don't i don't think there's any support for the idea that it's going to be able to just sort of like know what buttons to click in Slack. That's not what's going on here. Okay. Okay. Privacy. So on device is how the majority of this stuff is going to be done. But when something is complex, I don't know if you have more examples of what those things might be,

but if something is complex, it goes out to the cloud. It goes out to Apple's own cloud, and they have built a system called Private Cloud Compute. This is Apple's hardware. They built their own servers using Apple Silicon. When you're going out to the cloud,

only the relevant data is sent and is not stored, and Apple have, and they're going out to the cloud, only the relevant data is sent and is not stored. And Apple have, and they're going to be using a system called Verifiable Privacy Promise, where they can have outside investigators, essentially. So the way this works, there are certain tasks, and it will determine it, right? You will say, I wanted to do this thing, and it will determine whether it's in the cloud or not. I asked, by the way, there is not currently anything that is hardware gating on whether it goes in the cloud or not. So it's not like if it's an M1, it may – some stuff that the M2 and the M3 and the M4 can handle, but the M1 will set it to the cloud.

That's not how it's built today. All the devices will make those judgments and it's independent of the hardware. There might come a time down the road where there's like an M6 and there's a new function and the M6 can run it on device and the M1 can't

and that it might do that. But that's not the case today. And essentially, it was best for Apple if they never need to talk about that, right? Exactly. And well, and the rest of the system is built that way. You are not told whether it's going to the cloud or not, right? That's just not part of the conversation. Some of it is and some of it isn't. I guess unless you don't have an internet

connection, right? Yes. And I'm unclear what happens if you don't have an internet connection, if it's functional, or if like a lot of the intelligence stuff just drops, even if it is local, right? I mean, we don't know how that's going to go. In terms of private cloud compute, these are servers that are running in Apple's data centers, not in other people's data centers. They are servers built by Apple. They are running on Apple Silicon chips. They would not specify what the chips are. my guess is going to be that they're m1 or m2 generation probably m2 generation because that three nanometer process is real expensive and uh so that's my guess but i don't know do you think they've built a custom

chip well mark german so they wouldn't again they wouldn't say mark german says that they are working on a custom chip uh i think he said that at some point um i my guess is that it's not now just because i feel like we would know if they had built a custom version i do wonder you know is it a is it binned m2s that they only really care about the gpus and i nobody they're not talking about it but what i will say is they have built a hardened subsystem version of iOS, essentially, that is running on these servers. Okay. So it's very secure. They have no persistent storage.

So Apple, it's end-to-end encrypted, and Apple has no way to get the data that's on them. So basically, and they're auditable by outside security researchers. basically app and and they're auditable by outside security researchers so apple is basically saying we have built a system that makes sending your ai queries to the cloud secure like it's on your device and everybody's gonna have to process that and everybody's gonna have to think about it but i think i think this sounds pretty legit i feel like this is as safe as and as it could possibly be like for me i just maybe i'm being gullible i don't know but like when i hear that i feel like this is as safe as it could possibly be like for me i just maybe i'm being gullible i don't know but like when i hear that i'm like yeah of course that's what they're doing like i don't i i you know i don't i don't i don't know what you feel but i have absolutely

zero qualm with everything they're spoken about when it comes to data privacy and ai processing yeah i i think this is this is we will, right? I mean, the beauty of it is that it will be verifiable by experts. They're basically saying, we want people to look at this, there will be security bounties. We are putting all of this out there, but it's, I don't know what you do beyond, it's our cloud. It's our hardware. It's our operating system. And I can see the argument and we see this in the chat room of like, well, I want to be known. I want to know if it's going out there and be able to turn that off. Like I, I don't know about that. I don't know if that's necessary. Um, because I, I because part of me thinks you are asking for a level of control that maybe you yourself don't understand what's involved just to make yourself feel better.

And I'm not sure that's good enough. Do you send iMessages? Like, where do you think they go? Exactly. Exactly. So this is – I think Apple's done everything they could. We'll see if security experts have issues and if they pick this apart but they basically tried to build a thing that is entirely their software their hardware their servers and built in a way where they can't look

at it so the whole point here is ai does not functionally have to be insecure data harvesting all of these things yeah it is because a lot of companies hurried into the space and didn't care. And it might even be convenient for them to have all of your data. But Apple entered this process knowing they couldn't do that. So they built something different. And we'll see. On its face, this seems like a great approach to this sort of thing but we'll see how the reaction plays out so all of these features are available on m1 max and up and the iphone 15 pro and pro max only and it is being said i don't know if apple have said this but i've seen it said now it seems to be ram is the cutoff here.

And it's like 8 gigabytes of RAM appears to be the minimum amount of RAM for a device. And Apple said, you know, maybe so. Yeah, right. But I think the simplest way to do it is think if it's an M series chip, it's supported. And if

it is that one chip that is on the iPhone 15 Pro, it's supported. if it is that one chip that is on the iphone 15 pro it's supported and that's it so going forward i assume most iphones that are new will also support this and all apple silicon max and all but that is your question all the iphone 16s well for sure yeah but do i get this on my device? It's like, well, if you have an iPad or a Mac and it's an M series, you're good. And if you've got an iPhone 15 Pro, you're good.

That's it. Period. That's where they've drawn the line. That's all it's ever going to do. Pull one out for the iPad Mini. Yep. If you want to know if the iPad Mini is going to get a new chip in it, there you go. I don't think it will get an M chip.

I actually think it will just get the, whatever the next, the iPhone 16 chip. Yeah. I think it will get that. So like, was that the A18 or something? Yeah.

I reckon it will probably just get that. And I think they will continue doing that because the iPad mini should never use stage manager and if you put an m chip in it technically it would then use stage manager because of the way that apple's kind of written themselves into that box um these features are on all kinds of time scales that we don't know all we know is that apple in some version of apple intelligence stuff will be in beta in u.s english this summer features will start shipping in the fall with some features rolling out over the next year but it's not yeah u.s only you just have to have your device language and Siri language in US English,

and you can just get it straight away. To start, right. And then they'll roll it. Like, the question is, when does this ship? And the answer is, when doesn't it ship? Because I think this is going to be an endless shipping. Except today. We don't have it today, but it could be any time from now and then always.

And then always. I think that's really legitimately what's going to happen is that, you know, next year we'll get to WWDC and they'll say, oh, here's some new Apple intelligence features coming over the next year. And I think it's going to be like that for quite a while that they're just going to keep, and they can, they can afford to do that. And right now they have to, because some of this stuff, like some of this stuff is so not there that they couldn't even show it. Right um and and that's the stuff that's like next year but i'm okay with that because basically what they're saying is here's our goal for the next year and then we'll see you back here at wwdc when hopefully we've accomplished all these and

we'll tell you what our next year goal is that's fine but in this case this stuff is moving so fast that um yeah a bunch of the stuff just doesn't even exist. And they're like, next year. We can't even show it to you. Trust us. See you next year. Right? And it's like, okay.

All right. So we draw a line. And now we talk about ChatGPT. So. Yes. yes apple refers to what chat gpt does as world knowledge rather than like your knowledge which i actually think is a as a way to delineate is yeah good right like it's trying to help everything with everything on your device and that's about you But if you want to know something that is out on the internet, this is what ChugGPT is for.

Because Siri does have data sources that Siri has always used and it will continue to use in this new world. And I think that's good, right? Like if they can wire up some really good data sources, they'll use that.

But if they come to the end of the road where they're like, oh, we don't know. Because like you can ask when do the Giants play next and it'll tell you, right? You can ask about baseball statistics and there's a whole bunch of stuff you can ask, Siri, even now, and it works. And that's all still going to be there. But there does come that point,

and I know you and I talked about this a week or two ago, where it goes, hmm, I found something on the web for you. I don't know. And at that point, there will be an opportunity to kick it out to a different source. And I want to be clear, they announced ChatGPT, but when they are talking about this afterward with the press, what they've said is this is a modular system. Other chatbot type things can be added later. There are some interesting potential chatbots in specific areas of domain knowledge that Apple may not have expertise in because Apple is not trying to eat the world and consume all world knowledge and that they may add those. And then other things like Google Gemini, sure, they may be in the mix too.

If this sounds a little bit like a modular sort of search engine kind of deal, it kind of is. Well, I mean, it's kind of like when they added war from alpha to siri yeah right you know what like also a search they added these like i mean i know it's different but like they added these like bits where it could query right like we can go get that from here we got this from wikipedia get this from here you know this is going to be the least um exciting partnership announcement ever, though, right? Because it's like, hey, ChatGPT is the best, which they said. Like, but there will be others.

And here's a disclaimer at the bottom that says everything ChatGPT says may be full of garbage and don't trust it. And it tells you every time, right? Like, hey, do you want to go to chat GPT for this? Yeah, the whole thing, like the workflow is like, if you say something that triggers, oh, and it ships off by default. Let's just say that.

Like they didn't mention that on the video, right? It's so clearly a sign that Apple wants to people to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, chat GPT. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it sounds like they got a pretty good deal with chat GPT and with Open open ai like basic requests are free um you can log in as a chat gpt subscriber and get some extra features and be in the history and all that but by default even if you turn it on uh you don't pay anything um i assume apple's paying them something but like

the users don't pay for it and um it's so off by default you don't pay it can't they're using uh routing they're using like uh like it's it's kind of like the internet private routing kind of stuff so um chat gpt doesn't know your ip address so they don't know who you are legally they can't retain any of the data that is sent. And they, they, Apple pointed that out definitively to me legally, they cannot. So this is like Apple has locked them up to like, you can't, you can't use the data. You can't track the people. You can't see the IP address. So they put all these limitations on open AI, but open AI is still like, yeah, but we want to make a deal with Apple because their big competitor is Google and that's Android. And so they can't do that. So here's an option.

But from Apple's perspective, it's like, it's turned off. It's got warning labels on it. We're going to have other partners too, but hey, OpenAI is the best right now. And then all of the other caveats about it's for world knowledge and like it is it is an integration that some people might like and that i think the business world and the tech world kind of wanted apple to do but it's couched in a way where very clearly it is the most like this is the 10-foot pole kind of like please welcome our special guest and then you never see them and they never get mentioned again that's what was going on with open ai it's chat gpt 4-0 is what craig said on stage right yes during the keynote um from something i would wonder is like if you sign in with your chat gpt account i don't think they need to ask you every time

like i feel like that to me is like an implicit i think that may i think that may be the case i'm unclear about that but i think that may be the case that once you're logged in and you're like no no no no i'm a chat gpt subscriber that it all just is is there but but certainly but you've made that decision about your own life at that point you know exactly but but by default every query that might possibly go to chat gpt it's going to say do you want to do this and you can say no and if you try to upload like it needs an image or a file or something you have to say yes i am okay with sending them the file now legally they have to throw that file away but you still it doesn't matter you still have to ask so there was a lot of hand wringing about oh gpt is terrible um and it's like well it's off by default and

nobody has to use it it's warning labeled it's like well why did they even put it in there it's like you know what some people find it useful and if you find it useful it's there and also i think you made a really good point of like try not to think of this too much as they built this feature for open AI. Like they built this feature so that Apple intelligence can query other large language models and that more of those even specialized ones could come in the future that it will actually make a lot of sense. Here's an example that was sort of suggested to me by somebody at Apple, which is, what if there's an LLM that has been trained on medical information, right? What if there is some

medical bot that has been trained by some esteemed medical institution and they're like, oh yeah, you know, this is actually pretty good. It's way better than general knowledge in terms of finding out information about, I don't know what, illness, medications, whatever. Let's just say, right? It could be anything. It could be another technical topic. You could put that, you know, Apple could theoretically add that to the list and then your on-device analyst would say, oh, you know, that seems like a question for medical bot. Would you like me to ask medical bot? And then it goes to the medical bot, right? I think that's their vision here is Apple is really focused, at least for now, on not consuming the world and building an overarching world knowledge model, on focusing on people on their devices and what

they know on the devices and the fact that they make phones and tablets and computers, and it's a part that they can do really well, but having the ability to go outside that to other places. And part of that is because they don't have any of those other things. And that's probably true. And maybe they do want to do that eventually, or because they don't have any of those other things. And that's probably true. And maybe they do want to do that eventually, or maybe they don't. I don't know. I think the jury's still out on general applicability and trust of those things. But I think that's Apple's vision is like beyond this point, we're going to have the ability to, in the long run, point you in the direction of some other data source that

might be able to help you with that if you want them to. And if you don't, then it doesn't happen. This episode is brought to you by Uni Pizza Ovens. Uni is the world's number one pizza oven company. They let you make restaurant-quality pizza in your own home. Uni pizza ovens can reach up to 950 degrees Fahrenheit and cook pizza in as little as 60 seconds. This high temperature is what separates the pizza that you'll make in an Uni oven from those you'd make in a conventional oven. And they are incredibly quick to heat up.

You'll be ready to go in just 20 minutes. Trust me, this is enough time just to get your toppings ready. Whether you want authentic wood-fired flavor or the convenience of cooking with gas, it doesn't matter whether you're looking to cook with wood, charcoal, gas, or even electricity, there is an Ooni oven that fits your needs and lifestyle.

Ooni have designed ovens like the wood pellet-fueled Fira 12 and the multi-fuel Karu 12G for maximum portability. This is made for people who like cooking on the go, camping, getting out into the wilderness, those that want to be the most flexible. But if you want both the convenience of gas and love the flavor of wood-fired cooking, you want the option, then Ooni's Karu line has you covered because you can get wood or charcoal right out of the box. It's super simple. Or you can get their optional gas burner for cooking flexibility. And now they have Ooni's electric Volt 12 pizza oven,

which you can use to make pizza both indoors and outdoors. This is the oven that I have myself and absolutely love. It's fantastic. I really love the ability to be able to cook pizza in my own home to an excellent degree of all of the toppings that I want, just the way we want it. Me and my wife make them together and it's a really fun time. Uni have also recently released the Uni Coda 2 Max, which is honestly a massive pizza oven. They have a 24 inch cooking area so you can cook two pizzas side by side or three 10 inch pizzas. If you really are in it to win it, go and check that one out. Uni ovens are for more than just pizza. You can cook burgers, fajitas, buffalo wings, and so much more. Look, if you can put it in an oven,

you can cook it in an Ooni pizza oven. They start at just $299 for free shipping to the US, UK, and EU. They make all the accessories that you could want, and they even have groceries too. Listeners of this show can get 10% off their purchase of an Ooni Pizza Oven. Just go to Ooni.com and use the code UPGRADE2024 at checkout. Ooni Pizza Ovens are the best way to bring restaurant quality pizza to your home. So go to Ooni.com, that is O-O-N-I.com and use the code UPGRADE2024 and you'll get yourself 10% off. Our thanks to Ooni Pizza Ovens for their support of this show and RelayFM. Is it time to talk about the feelings? Yeah, let's talk about the feelings.

Disclaimer for the feelings segment of the show. We are, or I am at least, I'm sure you will agree with me, going to ask for your grace, listener. This is a very emotional topic for a lot of really good reasons. And I think everybody has their own set of emotions about this one,

which makes it particularly complicated to talk about. Like just AI in general, but especially as it's applying here. So we're going to attempt to talk through some of it today and we will be talking about it for a long period of time. And so it's going to take time to think about it or get through it all. So all I ask is try not to assume that because we're talking about something, how it works or our own feelings about one part

or another part part maybe not yours particular part that we're not like endorsing anything particularly right like we're just going to talk about how we feel right now and then we'll listen to what more people have to say and you know like and we'll move on from there you understand what i'm saying some people feel like ai is the worst and some people feel like ai is the best and like they're very strong feelings any ai means it's the worst and you know like and like every part in between yep can i ask for your grace in allowing me to pull the pin out first go right ahead all right so. So I think Apple has built a lot of really interesting features

that I really want to use. But they blew it because they created the image generation tools. I am surprised that they did it. And I don't even think they did it well enough to have bothered kicking the

anthill or the hornet's nest like when i was watching them show off the beginning of image playground i felt secondhand embarrassment like you know when you're you're you're watching a tv show with a friend or like a loved one and like you've tried to convince them to watch this show but then something weird happens in the show and you can kind of feel that they're a bit like why did you make me watch this show like i i felt that way for when they were creating especially when they were creating the images of other people i think that the images that they have made in the cartoonish style that they have chosen it doesn't look any better than anything else that's out

there it has that kind of weird gross ai style of cartoon which doesn't look like the way a human would do it it's like like everything looks really dark like it's like a strange kind of thing that now i think that just that style just carries emotional baggage for a lot of people i think it is incredibly weird to the point that i don't even understand why why would you create a system where you could make pictures of other people why is why did that ever leave the whiteboard like let me make pictures of me why do i get to make a picture of jason just because i have photos of jason that i can make jason look like a super villain or i could make jason look sad in the rain like why is that a thing

like awesome like because you know what also you can just download a bunch of pictures of anyone and then you can create images of them like just because someone

being in your photo library does not give you implicit like granting to create images of them no one else is doing this like none of Apple's competitors are doing this.

Why are they the ones to do this? Let me make pictures of me. Make my own Memoji look better than ever or whatever. But the thing that I can't believe is that it doesn't even look good. You did all this stuff and they don't look good. Why go to the effort and aggravation for something that now I think is casting a shadow over everything else they're doing. And I just don't know if it was something they needed to do, but then I'm thinking about it

and I'm like, well, maybe I'm wrong. Like maybe it's me that's wrong because so many people, including so many of my friends have uploaded their photos to these ai tools to create like hi here's fun me as an 80s character which i never did any of that because i don't want it but so maybe i'm the one who's wrong but like i just think that this image creation is bad enough like people don't like that but creating other human beings is like taking their facial features and being able to ask the AI to make an image of them I just I feel like it's drawing attention away from everything else I think it's going to color a lot of the announcement especially in our circles I think it's already done that like I've seen so many people say like this like what I said this looks cool but I'm not so sure about the image stuff and like the emoji are fine when they look good as i mentioned earlier but everything else

i just don't know man i don't get it i this was the moment in the in the keynote where i reacted the most negatively um there was another moment in the q a that happened later that i also reacted negatively to but this is in the moment of the keynote this is it and i think that there are two those two things are the two fundamental issues with what apple announced so yes i agree completely i i think this was a mistake i think this comes from that place that i mentioned earlier it's the yippee we're having fun where you could send pictures to your friends. And here's a picture of my mom as a superhero. And yeah, isn't it great? We're having so much fun with our phones. It's so great. And again, maybe we are wrong. And it is not the children who are wrong. Maybe we're right. Maybe we're wrong. I don't

like it. I don't think it was necessary. I do think people, I do think it's fun if it's you. I think it's less fun when it's someone else. I think that's the distinction. It is. It is interesting that they put it so on rails and then they said you could take anybody else. Cause that was my immediate thought was like, I don't want to see a weird AI cartoon version of me sent back to me. I am not interested in that at all. And, and, um, I all. And I don't love any of this. I mean, the other thing is sort of a slight segue, which is what are these models trained on? So there was an event a couple hours after the keynote where there was an interview on stage with John Gianandrea and Craig Federighi.

It's an Apple, you know, it was on stage at the Steve Jobs Theater and it was iJustine, you know, and I don't think she was, you know, given questions, but it's like, it's Apple's venue. They were sort of trying to do John Grieber's talk show,

but like with a captive audience of just press, which I'm not, I'm not a fan. I think it was a big mistake on their part, but inside baseball. There was at least information in that that would have been great to give to everyone yes they dropped information unfortunately one of the pieces of information was the question of what were the apple models trained on and craig fiorighi said well we trained it on the open web and then also um licensed images and

licensed content and uh and in fact for some of these photo things apple commissioned artwork in these styles that they wanted to do and use those as part of the model training which i thought was like oh well that's an interesting story right of like oh we're doing it the right way but the way he said it and he tried to caveat it he did he really did but basically what he said is we're doing things the wrong way and also the right way i know and that's not good enough right so that doesn't mean it's right like they licensed all this content from from publishers and things and they made some visual content but they also just scraped the internet and when and it turns out the details are even worse which is there's an Apple search engine. It's the thing that does things like spotlight searches. And, um, but of course Apple's secretive. So until today they didn't

announce or yesterday, they didn't announce that there's a new thing you can put on your website that will block Apple from scraping your website for use in generative ai but until this week that was not a known thing and so apple has been doing what all these other companies have been doing which is basically saying if it's on the internet and it's free and open we can use it to build our model now are they doing that for images? Maybe not. Maybe the images are all licensed. But on that case,

and maybe the story will be, well, now that it's out, if anybody puts that in, we will do a retraining at a later date and all that stuff will come out. I mean, maybe that's the case, but it's still opt out where, I mean, who's going to even know to do it?

The model's built, like the model's built, you know, and now they're training on new stuff. Yeah. So if you truly believed that you needed to get licenses from the news, you know, the news providers and all the other content providers, then why did you also train your model? I think the answer is expediency. They just did it just like everybody else did. train your model i think the answer is expediency they just did it just like everybody else did and i think it was casey newton um who pointed out like that statement went by and like are we just all okay with the idea that any tech company can take the entire web and all the content on it and nobody's granted them a license and they can just use it to build a whole system on their

devices that they sell very disappointing so it is is. It is. Because they had... This is the bottom line. I think you look at this event... Here are my feelings. You look at this event and you think, Apple's trying to do the right thing. However, there are a bunch of extenuating factors. One is

they're caught a little flat-footed on some of this stuff and they're struggling to catch up. And they feel like they're at a disadvantage to some of their arch competitors and they don't want to blow it. Also, there's the Silicon Valley bubble of whether it's business and investors or, you know, just the peers of the people who work at Apple. AI has been a buzzword. AI has been a buzzword. And there's a feeling, especially among investors and other types in the industry, that Apple needs to show that they're not behind. And if you look at the response in those areas, they're very happy that Apple made these announcements. But the challenge is a lot of the things that Apple needed to do if you wanted to please those

people have these downsides. And so Apple ends up kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place where they're trying to do the right thing, but they also want to be perceived as being in with the cool kids. And what frustrates me is a lot of what they did is exactly the right thing to do. A lot of it is be the adult in the room, do features. Don't just throw things at the wall and say, here's a chat bot, do whatever. But like build features and UI, have it be privacy-based, have it be on your device. And they went above and beyond. Build a server profile and operating system so that you can offload some of this stuff that can't be done on the device to cloud servers that you control, but you can't look into and build security in an AI cloud. Like they did all of that stuff,

right? And it's like, good. This is all to the good. Good job, Apple. Don't go with the bad kids. Don't go to that party with the bad kids. Stay at home and do your homework and then they're like but but the cool kids invited me to the party right and so you end up with this you know here's our model that we trained and here's our generative ai thing that even if it wasn't trained on artists who didn't give their consent even if it was trained on you know stock imagery and things that apple hired first off i think if it was they would have said so more prominently like that's that's the part of this is like open web some of the stuff they they didn't say they didn't which means they did right some of that is just like that's what it is so and even if they did the way it looks i just think is unfortunate because it looks

like weird ai art that we all know and and some of the things, I saw somebody point out and quite rightly, like there's this beautiful sketch in the architecture notebook and part of the demo of like what this temple looks like. And they're like, yeah, we can circle it and generatively make an image, a photorealistic image of that temple. And it's like, the sketch was better.

The sketch was nicer. The sketch had more of a, I think it was Nevin Morgan. Yeah. But we replaced it with a generative thing. It's like, right. So that's my feeling, is that they're trying. And they're trying to thread a needle here

where they show... Because it isn't just what are your features. It's also show you're in the game and show you're making progress. And it's easy for somebody who doesn't work at Apple and doesn't have stock options and isn't in the industry to say, oh, just ignore all of that. It's hard for them to do it. And I can see that if you've got a fiduciary responsibility, maybe you need to feel you need to demonstrate to the market and to your investors that you do get it. But there are moments, I guess in the end,

I don't know if it all could have been avoided because some of this stuff, like the model they're using for Apple intelligence, it was trained on the open web. It just was, they're going to have to cop to it. But I felt like with the generative, with that image playgrounds, especially, they didn't need to do that. they could have left it at the gen mojis and it would have been fine i don't think everybody was like oh they need their own dolly right like no no let chat gpt do that stuff you just stay away from it and there are moments where they just got tempted yeah they're like oh we could do this and those are the ones that i think you know that eventually they're going to wish they could have had back you know let's say let's go back to the the text right because that's the open web stuff that's

where i think they're talking about specifically text right like they went out they scraped the internet with their robots and they created their large language learning model yeah maybe look i'm not the smart one here but let's just say for the sake of argument, the only way that you can do this is to do that. But I had still hoped that they would do something different. Like I understand what I would say is I understand that that might be the only way that you can do it and be good. I understand that that might just be it, but I had hoped that the richest or second richest company in the world had the ability to to do it differently and you know what maybe they would have if they wouldn't have started on this stuff nine months ago or whatever you know like but i it just it just bugs me that i was the whole time we've been leading up to this has just been this thing in my mind where i'm like surely they'll do it differently like it kind of wasn't really uh a thought in my mind that they

would have just done it like everybody else did but it really seems like they just did it how everyone else did but they sprinkled some nice stuff on top like hiring some artists like all right you know okay fine yeah good and again you know maybe it's true that nobody cares but i care right like i i don't think building your building your feature on content you don't own that that they haven't you know they haven't given you an explicit right to do is, I question whether that's the right thing to do. And it especially bothers me with artists. And maybe the answer is that, you know, nobody else cares and it's, and it's fine. But, but I think that's an esoteric point in some ways. I think the larger point is, is not like just that they're, they're taking

content, but it's that, you know, a lot of the tenor of ai stuff is oh you don't even need to use an artist anymore you can just use an ai thing to build art for you and don't pay an artist and i don't i think apple didn't step in that i think apple's image playgrounds thing is very much like this is just for messing around with friends and there's a reason for that like that said they did say they did put it in the keynote. I was like, hmm, hmm, don't know so much about that, but they were trying to soft pedal it. But again, just my feeling is some of this was probably inevitable

because of the way the tech world is going and that Apple needed to show that it was in the game. And James Thompson just said in our Discord, oh no, a $3.1 trillion company might be a $2.9 trillion company. But it's like the incentives are misaligned. The people who run Apple are, you know, have stock options. Their incentive, at least in part,

is to, you know, keep the stock up. And we all want Apple to be better than that, right? And I think that Apple has core beliefs and Apple does a better job than most companies at following them. But there are limits. And like AI is very energy intensive and they want to talk about leaving the world a better place and being able to offset all of the energy use of their devices. But it doesn't change the fact that if you're loading your device up with AI models, you're going to be using a lot of power on devices that will then need to be charged. And you're going to use a lot of power in the data center. Even if you're using efficient Apple Silicon servers, they're still using a lot of power. And like, there comes a moment where they're like, yeah, we know, but we got to, we feel we got to do this. Like, this is the time we can't, we can't let this go. And I think in

the long run, what they may be thinking is if we let this go, it might be an existential crisis for Apple. That if Android leans into this stuff and it proves to be a game changer, it's not going to matter that Apple stuck up for what was right, because Apple will go out of business because the iPhone will be killed by Android. And I know that's an extreme view, but i can see why people at apple would feel that way i genuinely believe we are at the first time in the history of the iphone where that has actually become a possibility i believe that that is a possibility that yes if apple said we're not doing this then they run the risk of losing their business from the iPhone. And as you said about the incentives thing, I understand the idea that they care about Wall Street

and Wall Street care, I get that. I also imagine a scenario where the incentives of we want to be the best technology company in the world for consumers i believe today that does include ai because it's people want these features and they want them more and they want them faster you can see how these these these these apps these services are being used and they are being used by people that do not listen to this show and right like they need to be in this world i think we both just hoped that they would because this is the thing which annoys me so many of the things we've spoken about in this episode are the exact example of doing things the apple way but then they did some stuff not their way and it that's right and

and that's what overshadows everything because you did things bad ways and not even really good enough and so what's the point yeah i think if we're if we're gonna so if if we're down on some of this stuff and i yeah like image playgrounds, I don't like it. I don't like the idea of it. I just don't like it. I think that the whole generative image thing, like Genmoji is as far as I'm willing to go right now. Me too.

The other, I would say, so the little ray of sunshine here is if you are somebody who believes, as I've heard lots of people say this week, that AI hype is like Bitcoin hype. It's like blockchain hype. It's just another thing that the tech industry is doing to get a bunch of suckers on board and make a lot of money. And then it's not going to pan out either. And they're going to leave other people holding the bag and the tech people are going to count their money and go on to the next uh you know ponzi scheme that they're going to do next whatever it

is okay um i'm i'm not a i'm not convinced that general knowledge ai chatbots are going to take off like i think that there is definitely an argument that there are limits to what they're doing and that what seems like exponential growth now may in two or three years prove to have been a mirage and that they can't stop hallucinating and they don't get a lot better. Okay. However, if you're Apple, you got a hedge. What if they are? And so Apple's put, they're probably building their own internally in case they need to no longer partner with OpenAI, right? But they put OpenAI in there. They put ChatGPT in there. They're like, all right. Well, you know what? In two or three years, if this doesn't pan out and it's all dumb, they'll just take it out

because they've got their other models. And if their other models are more limited, and it turns out that that's actually what the future is, is a whole bunch of limited models that are focused on things like your user's data set and your context, and that there are other ways to get the knowledge out there, but that the GPTs of the world are never going to be that great, amazing artificial intelligence dream, then great. They will have not particularly integrated chat GPT or others into the operating system. It's at arm's length. And if it's a big nothing, it'll be a big nothing and it'll fall away. If it's huge, they can't be late to it. So I think there are reasons

for some people to be disappointed in Apple this week, even though I think a lot of what they did is absolutely the most Apple-like thing they could choose to do. But I think there are places where Apple has said, you know, we got to be, we got to be careful here because if we are left too far behind, we will never catch up. And, and, and so when you see them do things that might disappoint you, I think that's one of the, one of the things that's going on. But what I didn't see is them betting the house on it, right? I didn't see them saying, yes, chat GPT is the future.

Oh my God, everything. They're like, you could use it if you want and we'll warn you and we'll put a warning label even after we warn you that we're using them about the results being unreliable, but we're going to do it. And that is them like, because the fact is people are like, well, they should just not do that. And so I know some, the fact is some people do want that. Some people want that stuff and use that stuff and you don't have to like it. But at this point, it may be more like a dangerous toy, but it's a toy that some people want to play with and that Apple can't say no because maybe it's more than a toy. because maybe it's more than a toy. And if it turns out just to be a dangerous toy that doesn't grow and change and improve, I firmly believe they will back away from it entirely.

But they can't afford to pretend it doesn't exist. And so you're left with this cognitive dissonance, which is Apple's doing some stuff the right way. And then you look at this other stuff and you're like, well, what the heck Apple? What's that about? And they're like, yeah, well got to do that too.

And that's just, that is the contradiction of this entire thing. Shall we leave that here for this week? Sure. I'm sure we'll get a lot of feedback and we'll chew it over and we'll have more thoughts down the road. I know that my thoughts are changing on a a over these almost six hourly basis right now so there's going to be more stuff that comes out there's going to be more interviews and there's going to be more thoughts but i think

for now i think we me and you at least i feel like i've said the main things i wanted to say today yeah i have one more thing to say, which is I am as tired as everybody else is of people saying that AI chatbots are the future and that if you don't have them, you're behind and that they're obviously going to change the world because I have great skepticism about that. And I think it's good to be skeptical. Maybe they will, or maybe not. I also am tired of people who view all machine learning and AI stuff as a con and a scam that doesn't have value, because that's not true either. And I see those people out there too. And I'm just tired of that too.

Like, you know, the reaction in some circles to the stuff that Apple announced is like, everybody, Apple announced that they want to, that they realized they need to make Siri a lot better and contextual and understand what you've been talking about with them and saying, hey, you know, do this thing now and send it to that guy and have that actually work. Like, that's good. And there are a bunch of other good features that are tried and true. So I would say don't, not all machine learning and AI is the same. Not all machine learning and AI stuff is fundamentally inhuman and unreliable. Not all AI and machine learning is coming for our jobs or to kill all humans or whatever there it's it's complicated and there's good and bad and i think my frustrations with some of what apple has announced is that i think some of what

apple's doing is leaning into the bad because they feel they have to but there's also a lot where they're trying to do the right thing and like the private cloud thing the private cloud compute is amazing right that is a huge amount work, a huge endeavor that they've undertaken to try to get the benefit of big AI features for users without basically selling them out. And that is to be commended, I think, based on what we know now. But I guess what I'm just saying is it's complicated. And so let's all kind of keep an open mind to the fact that some of this stuff is probably good and some of it is bad and that the best thing to do is try to pick apart as difficult as that is what's good and what's bad and um and and we'll see where it goes hopefully someplace good hopefully not someplace terrible but we'll see yeah i i do believe that the future of technology is based on technology built on large language models

that's not a chatbot necessarily maybe that is but you know i i think a lot of the stuff that i love that is in apple intelligence is exactly that they're building a model of my own stuff and helping me pick things out of it it's not a bot. It's just doing things from on my device. I think it is like that. That is like a, it's an underpinning to the next level of technology, but it's not going to be chat bots or maybe chat bots become so incredible that maybe it's chat bots.

But I think I'm with you, which is like, it doesn't mean it's all good. It doesn't mean it's all bad, but like this is, this is where we're going. And so I think that there is something about trying to find the thing that you like i think you've got to i think we've got to try and find some things that are of use to us or you can say i don't want

anything to do with any of this but it really does mean i think that it kind of steps you out of technology a little bit now and maybe you're okay with that but i know i'm not because it's what i love yeah apple's walking the tightrope here that's the other thing i guess to keep in mind is that is that apple and apple's executives can't just say oh no we're not going to do that like there would be deep consequences to that and they're trying to not just do the right thing but also make sure that the business continues to exist and battle all existential threats. And if you believe that the car was sort of a,

well, what, what if let's spend our money on it? And especially a vision pro is a, but what if they replace the iPhone with glasses? We need to be there and be our own replacement. If that's the case, well,

AI is one of those. It is an existential threat to, if you make an iPhone, how do you, you know, is it not relevant anymore if apps don't matter because everything's just run by the AI and like that's bad for Apple. So they're like, okay, we have to, we have to be a part of that too. And we might not like it, but that's just, that's part of what they have to do. This episode is brought to you by FitBod. When you're looking to change your fitness level,

it's super hard to know where to get started, which is why you need FitBod, the easy and affordable way to build a fitness plan made just for you. Everybody has their own path in personal fitness. It's what makes it so personal. So FitBod makes sure to use data to customize things to suit you perfectly,

adapting with you as you improve, making sure every workout is challenging, pushing you to make the progress you want, but in the most safe way. Your muscles will improve when they work in concert with your entire musculoskeletal system. This means, though, that overworking some muscles and underworking others can negatively impact your overall results, which is why FitBud tracks your muscle fatigue and recovery to design a well-balanced workout routine. This also means you're not going to get bored as the app will mix up your workouts with new exercises, rep schemes, supersets, and circuits. Superior results are achieved when this workout program is tailored to your unique circumstances, whether this is your body, your experience, your environment, your goals, or a combo of all of them. These are all stored in your FitBod gym profile. FitBod will then track your muscle recovery so you can avoid burnout and keep up momentum. They build the best possible

workout program for you by combining AI and exercise science. And you'll be learning new movements the right way thanks to their more than 1,000 demonstration videos. These are all in the great FitBod app. So you can go in, you get the breakdown. All of these exercises have been put together by their personal trainers. They're settled by personal trainers. So you can see the steps. They also have videos shot from multiple angles. I really love this because if I'm learning something new, I get everything I could possibly need to make me feel comfortable and safe in the workouts that I'm doing. FitBot is really easy to use. You can stay informed of their progress tracking charts, weekly reports, and sharing cards so you can keep track of your achievements and personal bests

and share them with your friends and family. It also integrates with your Apple Watch, Wearer, SmartWatch, and apps like Strava, Fitbit, and Apple Health. Personalized training of this quality can be expensive. FitBot is just just 12.99 a month or 79.99 a year but you can get yourself a huge 25 off your membership by signing up today at fitbod.me slash upgrade so go now and get your customized fitness plan at fitbod.me slash upgrade that is fitbod.me slash upgrade for 25 off your Our thanks to FitBud for their support of this show and Real AFM. Let's move on

to brighter things. macOS Sequoia. So I have another six months of trying to learn how to spell this. Because who knows? It uses every vowel so that's exciting. Who knows what order they go in. There's a bunch of features added to

continuity one of the best is iphone mirroring so on your mac absolutely you can fully interact with everything on your iphone your iphone stays locked if you've got it in a in a charging thing it will stay on standby mode if that's the thing love it i wish i could do this on my ipad and my vision pro as well while we're at it sure you know sure sure yeah if you flip if you uh unlock it it disconnects right but if if it's running it will either be in standby or in the lock screen and there'll be a little alert on the lock screen that says this is being controlled by a by a mac um but it's a it's a great feature i mean never underestimate apple's finding value in the Mac by integrating iPhone features.

Like the iPhone is the crown jewels, essentially. And like if they can make the Mac work better with the iPhone, then that is a benefit to the Mac. And so they're doing that a lot. And this is like you could always, from last year, you could run widgets, right? iPhone widgets on your Mac that actually were on your iPhone. But now with this feature, if you click on that widget to interact with it or to let it can just launch the iphone in a window and uh launch that app right and you can just you can use apps it's

a continuity feature so it needs to use it needs to be in bluetooth range to connect but then it uses wi-fi to do um the screen sharing and it's high frame rate, um, and high bit rate. And it will do audio as well as video. Um, it's got some controls. So if you, you know, you can click on the bar at the bottom to go back to the home screen, but there's also like a little toolbar where you can go back out to the home screen. Um, if it's something goes in, you know, in a rotated orientation, it will auto rotate. Like it's just very, it's just very clever. And notifications will put in the notification center and it's for an app that's on your iPhone. Again, you click on it, it just opens the window with the iPhone app on it. And I just, I like it. It's, it's super smart.

If you rely on your iPhone for stuff that's's not on your mac but you don't have to switch to your iphone you can use the keyboard and the mouse and the trackpad gestures and all that stuff just comes along and coming later will be uh what seems like a seamless like drag and drop of of of like content between devices too yeah there's into files or anything else or safari or like apple's apps that use it and anybody else that uses the drag and drop api for files it will just work that way too so you could literally just drag a file in and it it opens it up very cool uh window tiling on the mac so you can drag windows to corners and areas and they'll snap into place and there's a bunch of keyboard shortcuts.

Great. Yeah, and there's also more stuff under click and hold under the little green button in the upper left corner to auto tile your stuff. They finally got, again, this should have happened five years ago, but they've finally gotten, like Windows has done this a long time,

with the tiling game of just like, sometimes you just want to drag something in the corner and say, just take up this side of the screen and not have to deal with resizing it and all of those things and i know there are a lot of utilities that do this well i don't know what to tell you i this should be an os feature and and now it is and those utilities will still find ways to survive doing all the things that apple didn't bother to implement and never will. But it is funny, like Apple continues to deal with window management on the Mac. They just, there's always a new approach to window management on the Mac. I'm sure that those, that Apple's tool is not as

granular as many of the third-party tools can get in size and placement and stuff like that. Safari has a new highlights feature to pull out useful information from a page. It appears where the reader icon is, and it kind of still is also the reader icon. It says, I think you put this note in the document, Jason, that now to get to Safari reader, you have to click twice on that button, which is weird. The little button where it says Reader, that becomes the summary button. And you click and a little summary pane comes down with all that information.

And then there's a button on there that says, you know, open in Reader. So that is an interesting choice they made. I think that makes sense. Like, I think it would be interesting to have that information and then read like to me that makes sense anyway but maybe that's the kind of person i am um the reader itself does have some new features too uh like a table of contents and the summaries uh and the summaries are created on device on apple silicon max yeah so the the summary that you see in the pane is

actually a spotlight summary it's from their search engine it's a thing that's already existed but if you go to reader and they they do like a toc and a summary of the document that is generated on device that's an apple intelligence feature and viewer is now reader mode for video, right? Essentially. Yeah, they built in. So if you're on a webpage that's got a video and you want to pop it out, you can just do it. The webpage doesn't have to let you do it. It'll just do it. Should we talk about iPadOS?

Yeah. So iPadOS 18 got a bunch of features and notes that also iPhone gets some of these features too in different ways, but a lot of them are enhanced by the pencil. One is SmartScript, where it essentially learns your handwriting and makes your handwriting look better,

but retaining your style. So like smoothing things out a little bit. I've been trying to get this to work on my ipad mini but it just keeps telling me it needs to be connected to wi-fi to download but i don't know what i need to do to get it to do that but that's just beta life you know but you can then like you can copy text and paste it in your handwriting you can edit your handwriting like it's text i think this is a very very cool feature that i'm very excited to check out whenever it will work for me yeah if you misspell a word in your

handwriting you can actually it'll get a little underlined and you can have it be corrected and then it recorrects it in what looks like your handwriting yeah um live audio transcription is here too um i think that in notes i don't think it's done with Apple Intelligence, I think. Or maybe it is. I'm not sure. Yeah, it may not be, but it may just be the regular transcription engine. I don't know. But it's the idea that you can just, if you're in a lecture or something, you can just start

recording in Notes. And in the end, you'll get a transcribed version of the audio file. And then we have Math Notes. Yes, Math Notes. Which might be my favorite feature of any feature they have announced. I think this is an absolutely incredible tool where I think it works better with Apple Pencil, at least from the way that I work.

Like I very frequently, if I'm trying to work out a problem, like a money thing or just numbers or whatever, I like to sit and draw them out. What I like, so what Math Notes does, you just write out the sums and it calculates them for you. It can do currency transactions too, like conversions. And you can also type stuff out in notes as well.

And you can kind of like define things and then create sums out of them. So you could be like item A costs 100, item B costs 200, item A plus item B equals, and it will do it for you. Like really amazing. You can go in and edit the values and it will change the totals.

I think that this is a really impressive feature that is done so well. I mean, and this is in the brand new calculator app, which is on iPadOS, but also it features in Notes too. Notes has these features as well. You can just do it in Notes. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, I think this is an incredible thing.

And it doesn't just work with Apple Pencil. You can actually do this in like text too in there where you can you can put in a problem and put the equal sign and it'll give you an answer which is pretty neat um there is a redesigned tab bar inside of ipad apps which is customizable it's kind of like a floating bar. It looks like tvOS, like the way that tvOS looks. You've got like a kind of bar on the top, but then it kind of like becomes the sidebar when you open the sidebar and there's a little bit of editability to it. Yeah, you can have, if you've got an item that you want up there in that floating tab bar, you can edit it and drag it up there. And then you can see it's a customizable tab. This is another sort of like,

well, what if it's sort of like a menu bar, but not really it's content segmentation. So it's, it's the usual thing where Apple is like, oh, this lets your content come to the fore and like, okay,

all right. It does. It's I'll, I'll need to use it and, and, and see, but it's another tweak where they're like, let's just get the sidebars out of the way.

And yeah, okay, we'll see. And an updated document browser. Yeah, you know, this is a really quick one. Like the problem with so many document-oriented iPad apps is when they open, it looks like you just opened files. And you, other than like the name in the corner and the color, you can't even tell. And so they redesigned it so that the top half of the window is like branding for whatever app it is. And then the bottom half has the details of like,

opening a file in that app. And I think literally, it's because a lot of users and I've done this too, you open an app that is opens to the document browser and it's using the files document browser interface but it's in that app you open and you're like wait a second am i in files now and so they've tried to give it a little more branding so you know oh this is numbers or oh this is pages or whatever federico uh i saw him comment and he wrote in his article about this too which is that ip iPadOS this year basically got two features that were unique to it, which are those two that we just mentioned.

And my thought was, that is sad, but hey, at least you didn't have to wait a year for the home screen customization, which is the normal way of things. Yeah, no, i was impressed that the ipad actually got that feature because i thought we'd have to wait a year but that you know ipad does benefit from a ton of stuff that we've mentioned i think this year really feels like more of a by and large like a a like a overall systems year because of apple intelligence

sure but there are some things that each operating system gets that are unique to it even if there aren't that many you know like what we just like the mac got two features i mean i think they are arguably more impressive features than the features that ipad os got like iphone mirroring a window tiling. But nevertheless, you know, it may be a little slim pickings and some of this stuff. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Vitally. Customer success teams today are facing a problem. How do they connect customer data back to their work? Vitally changes that. It's a new kind of customer success platform, an all-in-one collaborative workspace

that combines your customer data with all the capabilities you'd expect from today's project management and work platforms. Because it's designed for today's customer success team, that is why Vitaly operates with unparalleled efficiency, improves net revenue retention, and delivers best-in-class customer experiences. It's a solution to helping your customer success teams keep a better pulse on your customers, maximizing productivity, visibility, and collaboration. You can boost your bottom line by driving more revenue per customer with Vitally.

And if you take a qualified demo of Vitally, you'll get yourself a free pair of AirPods Pro. So if you're a customer success decision maker actively seeking CS solutions, working at a B2B software as a service company with 52,000 employees, and you're willing to explore changing customer success platforms if you have one in place, schedule your call today by going to vitally.io upgrade and you'll get a free pair of AirPods Pro. That's vitally.io upgrade for a free

pair of AirPods Pro when you schedule a qualified meeting. A thanks to Vitally for their support of this show and RelayFM. They said it couldn't be done, but with WatchOS 11 you can now pause your rings. Yep, it's true. You can for a day, for a week, for a month

until an arbitrary time. Just pause them and your streaks are intact. It's kind of one of those things where it's like, I don't understand why it took 10 years. This is great, but why did this take 10 years? It's like, if I break

my ankle, I can't hit my goals so I lose my goals. That's not fair. I'm happy that they've done this and they've also taken this as a chance to you know to allow you to adjust your goals by day and stuff like that so they've done a little bit there um which is interesting there's a new training load system so uh it will be able to rate and let you know how intense any workouts you've done are. Yeah. There are like 17 different workout types where they will actually make a guess about how intense that workout was. You can also change it if you disagree.

And then they use that to sort of see how's your intensity working over time. It's almost like an understanding of the fact that it will change from day to day. But the general trends are, you know, are they upward or are they downward? Yep. The Vitals app looks really cool. This requires that you wear your watch while you're sleeping and you will get

an overview of a selection of health metrics. Heart rate, respiratory rate, wrist temperature, blood oxygen and sleep data. I use Sleep++ from previously mentioned Underscore. And I believe that this is what Underscore is using all of this stuff to create the readiness score that Sleep++ gives you. It's like a score. How ready are you for your day? And it's using these metrics. But what Apple's

doing here is they're also creating a baseline for you and letting you know if things are changing either once or there's a trend and you could i guess could use other data points in health to try and draw some patterns you know i was i was talking to some friends over the weekend um they're both watch people and we were talking about watches and stuff like that and i was just saying to them like i miss wearing my mechanical watches. I have a small collection of watches that I love, but I've kind of gotten to the point in my life where it feels like it is irresponsible to not wear an Apple watch from what it does for your health and how it tracks your health. And this is just another

one of those things where it's like another thing that my watch is looking out for me for to see if something's going on with my health and to try and give me some indications as to what might be affecting me and so yeah i think this is really cool i dig this feature a lot um because this is you know one of my main frustrations with some of apple's health stuff is they're like hey this thing changed and you don't really know what that means, but this does feel like they're going to try, with this system at least, try and base it on other things and make some recommendations to you. At least I hope so, anyway. Yeah, I get a strong sense from this of that usual, like,

Apple doesn't want to talk about medical things because then they would need to be regulated medically. And so the examples they all give are very vague. And I think that that's why. I think they want to warn you about things but not tell you what those might be because they would then have a whole other raft of regulations that they would have to do so it's like oh maybe you drank a lot last night um maybe but like they a lot of the I, it's just weird talking to Apple about it, about watch stuff because they, they don't want to make certain kinds of claims,

even though that's probably what motivated them. So anyway, it's nice to have a trend, a trend view. If you're somebody, they say, uh, sleeping is a great time to take,

take your vitals actually. So that's why they do it that way is they get, they get a bunch of time for you to, um, be, you know, still so that they can measure you and then compare you to previous days.

And it's a 28-day, I think, thing that it's doing. But yeah, anyway, yeah. And the smart stack will now surface relevant widgets. Like if it's raining, it can show you a weather widget. And it also features live activities, which I'm sure when they announced this feature initially, they said it would have live activities in it, but that didn't happen, which is great.

Like, so if I've got a car coming or food coming or whatever, I want my smart stack on my Apple Watch to show me that information because it's completely relevant to where I am. Exactly right. Developers don't even need to build another widget for it because it uses what's in the dynamic island as the genius um smart stack item very cool and finally vision os 2 yeah it happened so here are the features for vision os2 uh spatial photos from 2d images

so i tried this out today blown away by this it doesn't even need to be a photo you took on an iphone like it can be photos from other cameras yeah because they do the segmentation thing where they pull it out they do that it's actually very similar to what they do the segmentation thing where they pull it out. They do that. It's actually very similar to what they do with Apple Watch, where they put the text around a 2D image, but they pull out the person, and then they can put the text behind their head and stuff like that. It's like that. They basically find the subject,

and then they fake it so that you can get a spatial effect from it. I'm sure Joe Steele will hate it. To me, it looks good. Like, I thought it looked fun. I was making some of these from photos from some of our live shows of like photos I'd taken from stage of like us on stage, and I thought it looked great. I thought it was a lot of fun. Best way to look at a photo? No, but a fun way to look at a photo. There are new gestures to access home control center and to see the time and battery these take a minute to get used to but i'm really happy that they exist you kind of have

to raise your hand and look at your hand and then a little like circle appears you can then tap your finger together and it will take you to the home or you turn your hand over and then it brings up a little time and battery which you can then tap to bring to open control center takes a minute i like it but they're great like because this is getting rid of two really awkward interactions which is one pressing the button to go home or looking up to get to the control center. You can rearrange apps. We already mentioned panoramic Mac virtual display, so like a huge Mac monitor that will be coming.

Keyboard pass-through for Magic Keyboard and MacBook, so you're in a full environment and it can see those. I really wished that they just pushed that Apple intelligence a little further and made that all keyboards. Mouse support and what I love about this is this even includes when you're using Mac like when you're in Mac virtual display, it will use the mouse that's connected to your Mac to control things on Vision OS. Guest mode now saves eye and hand data from your most recent guest so someone can keep trying it, which is great.

There's more immersive video content coming from Apple and some others. And basically all of our Apple. But they've announced partnerships of Canon and Blackmagic to create specific hardware for creating professional, spatial and immersive content. And they announced vision pro international availability rolling out over the next couple of weeks so throughout june yeah you'll be legit soon i'll be able to buy the second solo band to do the solo top thing that everybody tries nice enjoy that and i can stop worrying about breaking it uh because i'll be able to take it

you can have access to all of your apps and subscriptions and stuff. That's going to take some time, but yeah, I'll be able to do that too. So I reset up my persona and it has not fixed my issue. So my mouse still does not move, but you can customize the glasses now. So that's good. I would say all of this is really great and would have been a really great vision os 1.5 i i and i'm not saying this is bad i think all of these features are fantastic it just doesn't really feel like a two you know like this is all great stuff pushing it forward in great ways i'm very happy about it

but it doesn't feel like a big leap and maybe that's just what we're going to have to accept from vision os it's not going to make big leaps but as long as they're adding stuff to it it's only four months since they shipped it right i mean it is a quick turnaround next year they will have a full year cycle yeah this year they didn't so i i yeah i can see on one level you call it watch os2 you're sort of saying look um we're going to keep working on this thing and we've incremented it and it might be small increments this time but we did it um and and you could say that if they did 1.5 they're like oh it's so disappointing or whatever i don't know if it matters in the end i'm glad that it's got stuff in it you know it's limited stuff but it's got stuff i'm what i'm saying is i'm not trying to put it down i'm just saying, it's limited stuff, but it's got stuff in it. What I'm saying is I'm not trying to put it down. I'm just saying, like, it's not a massive release,

but they did put features into it. They've fixed a lot of pain points. They've added some stuff. Like, I'm happy. But they've not done some of the things that I really wanted, like environment development, you know? So, like, people could submit environments to the system and stuff like that.

And it has no Apple Intelligence features. It's not supported. I'm really disappointed about this because it makes me worried that they're leaving the platform behind. I spoke to a friend of the show, John Voorhees, today who said that he was told in a

briefing that he had that they're not here because of priorities and at some point some of these features will start appearing on vision os so hopefully i hope that is the case like but to me this i think is a sign of like priority shifts like uh apple's future was spatial computing their new future is apple intelligence right it's just like what a difference a year makes and this is kind of where we are but i look forward to these things coming together because i think that there could be some really great stuff in spatial computing and apple

intelligence like it feels like a system those two things feel that they could be really well made for each other and maybe it's just a case of building the interfaces that will work for this stuff. And they have not put Vision OS as a main target for this right now, because it's still very small. And I can understand that if that's the case. I just really hope that they do it because I want those features there. I'm also not convinced that in the Vision OS 2 cycle, there won't be new features that they haven't announced. I think that is completely it. Yes, I think those features there. I'm also not convinced that in the Vision OS 2 cycle there won't be new features that they haven't announced.

I think that is completely it, yes. They'll announce this and ship it this fall, and then they'll do a 2.1, and it'll have a feature in it that surprises us. I would not be surprised if there's a lot more. They're not going to hold off necessarily for a year. They're just going to keep on iterating on it, and I hope that's the case.

I really hope so. But I'm happy with what I've seen. Like I spent a lot of time with VisionOS today. Oh, and they also added Safari profiles, which is like a huge feature for me because now I can use Safari. So I love it. So yeah, I'm really happy with VisionOS too.

But, you know, I didn't, I wanted more, but I got more than what would have been the minimum. So I'm happy with that. I think we did it. So we're obviously going to have questions. You have questions for us. Go to upgradefeedback.com. Send us in your Ask Upgrade questions.

I'd like to get through a bunch of them next week. Let us know what you're thinking about, what you're feeling, and we'll try and see how many of those we can get to next week. I think that that would be a good use of some of our time next week, along with anything more that we learn in the intervening days. So please go to upgrade feedback and do that. You can send us your feedback, follow up and your questions. You can check out Jason's work over at sixcolors.com. You can hear his podcast on the incomparable.com and here on RelayFM.

You can hear me on RelayFM and check out my work at CortexBrand.com. Jason is online. He is at Jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L. I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E. You can watch video clips of this show on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. We are at Upgrade Relay. Thank you to our members and supporters of Upgrade Plus and get to hear about the winner of the first annual California Bear

Trophy thank you to our sponsors of this week that is our fine friends over at Ooni Pizza Ovens Fitbard Vitally and Delete Me and hang on a second Jason do you hear that in the distance it sounds like

crashing waves serenity. And wait, is it fun? Oh yeah. It may be fun. Summer of fun! Summer of fun! See you next week.

Say goodbye, Jason Snell. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.