Upgrade - 528: Here's My Child Criminal

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

from relay this is upgrade episode 528 for september 9th 2024 today's show is brought to you by uni pizza ovens delete me and backblaze my name is mike hurley and i had the pleasure of being joined by jason snell hello j Jason Snell. Hello, Mike Hurley. How are you? I am very good, my friend. It's Apple event day. It's a big day. Big day.

Big day. And we're fresh off. You're fresh off just returning from Apple Park. I got out of the car, and now I'm here. That's how that works. I go straight from car to podcast. From Apple event to car to podcast. And we've barely spoken,

uh, about anything from today. So I actually, my snort question comes from me again today. Um, I, I tend to, to like own this,

these seasons because I just want to ask you things. Vibes. Um, about the, but like, but being at the event about the event and, uh, I asked the question vibes. However, you want to answer that question i said vibes sir i said so i said good vibes yes i think

i think all the information you need is in the question vibes um saw a bunch of people that was nice it's a funny event i feel like the event is actually like a whole bunch of international media and video influencers and things who are kind of like nobody knows them and they don't know anybody and then there's like those of us who know each other who are kind of like on the outside so it's like hey it's john grouper hey there's marcus brownlee hey there's i justine marquez brownlee who got off a flight from australia yeah yeah yeah yeah but he was there um because he was at the ultimate disc uh world cup one it just i said this even man cannot be cooler not only did he did he win a gold medal for team usa he scored the winning point oh man look at that pretty well

he's a star he's a star in all things all faces so. So those people, some people I see, relatives of friends of the show, who I'm not going to mention who, but you know who it is probably. Anyway, good stuff. And then a beautiful venue. They have that new venue that they did press releases about. I didn't see it. I couldn't even see where it was. It's like through the trees or something. There's this observatory something.

It's like a bunker. I don't know. I didn't see it. And then I, so it's, so it's weird, right? So I was sitting next to somebody who is like had a head, a badly leaking headphone in their ear doing a simultaneous translation of the video. So that was kind of unpleasant. But that's the, but that is also the iPhone event in a nutshell, which is a lot of people from all over the world. That is also the iPhone event in a nutshell, which is a lot of people from all over the world.

Because, and I've said this before, I'm going to say it again, because I feel like I want to break out of our little space of people who care about Apple. For us, the iPhone is important, but so are all sorts of other things. For the world, the iPhone is super, super important, and nothing else Apple does is even close to as important. So this is a totally different vibe as an event because the iPhone is so important. So the people there were very different. Hands-on area afterward, kind of wild because you got to, like I was standing behind a guy who literally spent five minutes taking iPhone photos of the iPhone in his hands.

And I'm sitting there, I've done that. I've been there. And I'm sitting there thinking, I know this is your job, sir, but I also know that none of your photos are going to be any good. They're all going to be crappy photos. And I came to the conclusion that like after a certain point, just use Apple's photos because your photos are bad. Your photos are really badly lit and ugly.

And no one wants to see your hand. one of the people there, if, if the people who are doing the hands-on area, um, are like, they get manicures beforehand and all that, because they also have them be hand models for all the shots. And I thought you should probably,

if you're Apple, I would make sure that everybody who's going to be holding a phone in front of a media person have like a, uh, a manicure. If they're going to, if they're going to enforce that, they have to hold it. You know what I mean?

Right. Yeah. I mean, and I don't, I mean, men or women, it doesn't matter. However, the woman I was talking to was like, yeah, I thought it was a good idea. That's why I got the teal because I like the teal matching the teal iPhone. I was like, oh, that's very smart. Yeah, yeah. Pro tip there.

So anyway, Vibes, it's an iPhone event. It's unlike any other event. I did get a chance to talk to a bunch of people, talk to the product manager for photos and camera who is in the event. I got to talk to her afterward. I've talked to her before because I've talked to her about the Photos app a lot.

You know, ran into a bunch of other interesting people. Most importantly though, I was standing talking to John Gru john gruber yeah and john turnus walked up and said hi john hi jason and i thought john turnus knows who i am that's some thorough briefing was he walking around of an earpiece it was just him i gotta be honest actually one of the most charming things about this because you know they don't they're not on stage anymore it's just a video event one of the most charming things about this because you know they don't they're not on stage anymore it's just a video event one of the most charming things about this is i don't think he had shaved in a day or two he was he was dressed super cash it was he he was no different

than any other random person who would walk up to me and say hi at an apple event and not the guy where mark german's like he's going to be the next CEO. Not like that at all. Just super casual. And I got to hear, I'm not going to retell the whole story, but apparently it happened not too long ago that John Gruber was looking out his window of his home in Philadelphia and saw John Ternus literally walking down the sidewalk. He drove over to John's house. Well, this is the thing is that it's an amazing coincidence and completely coincidental. And I'm sitting there thinking, or is that what they want you to think they just want you to know they want you to know he turn us wants you to know he knows your name and also he's not far away

so john turnus walks down the sidewalk the next step is that a uh uh greg jas we got gets out of a cab and then a an open top double decker bus tour bus goes by and I think Phil Schiller is driving it yep I'm sure it's all a coincidence John I'm sure it's all a coincidence if you would like to send in a question for us to open a future episode of the show just go to upgradefeedback.com and you can send it in. Before we talk about the draft results, I want to take a moment to talk about our campaign with our friends over at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, which we do every year, which we're very proud of. And as a community, we have not only raised $160,000 nearly for this year, over the last five years, we have surpassed three million dollars raised we

join with saint jude every year during chartered cancer awareness month and the relay community has come together once again to show why it's the best around and we do it money money money exactly raises all the money we do and it's. So look, why do we do this? Because St. Jude Children's Research Hospital is an incredible place. It saved the life of Stephen Hackett's son, and it has saved the life of probably countless others, because it's not just the kids that are treated at St. Jude. It is also the research that is shared worldwide, which is developed at St. Jude and given for free to the world. I want to tell you a little bit about something that goes on on the campus, though. One of the most important parts of being a patient at St. Jude is having space to not be a patient and just

be a kid. Last year, St. Jude opened the Family Commons. This is a 45,000 square foot space that is just for families. It's a treatment and clinical staff-free floor. It is a 45,000 square foot space that is just for families. It's a treatment and clinical staff free floor. It is a place for families to rest and reconnect between appointments. This is on campus at the hospital. It is a place where the families don't have to be around all of the treatment and all of the medical stuff that they're around. They can just be around each other. It's kind of a town hall where families can gather to get a coffee and

kids can be creative in an on-site recording studio, an art room, and a maker space that has all of the tools and technology like 3D printers for hands-on learning and inventing. There are play areas, private rooms to rest, take a nap, science lab, and a library, tech support, and childcare. The space came about after feedback from the parents of St. Jude, the patients, the parents of the patients, who were looking for a space on campus where they, as a family, could get some downtime together between the clinical appointments and have that sense of normalcy. This is just one of the many incredible things that this place provides. But to provide this for these children, they need your donations. The Relay community has adopted this campaign as its own over the last five years, and it's very easy for you to get involved yourself.

If you go to stjude.org slash relay, you can register to create your own fundraiser. You can join us in raising money for St. Jude. After you sign up, share your fundraiser with your friends, your family, and spread the word for this amazing mission. You can increase the amount of impact that you can have for the kids of St. Jude by signing up for a fundraiser of your own. People who sign up and host their own fundraisers can earn some limited edition incentives. Some of them are so good.

I posted on socials and Discord today. The desk mat that we have for this year, which is listed there, is incredible. There's also challenge coins and there's also a hat and a cup with Relay and St. Jude branding on it, like super cool stuff that's available to you. Go to stjude.org slash Relay and learn more. When we rally for a common cause, we become more than a community, but we become beacons of hope

for all. And that is why we are asking all of you to join Relay and St. Jude this September for Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Together, we can help cure childhood cancer. Go to stjude.org slash relay to donate today. Please go stjude.org slash relay. Should we do the draft results? Jason Snell? Yes. Yes. We have agreed prior to airing.

Yeah. In fact, I dropped some of my things that I would have been a stickler on because it doesn't matter. Yeah. Because the best I could do is come up with a seven-7 score with you getting the over and the tiebreaker. Yeah. So congratulations.

I will turn my pennant after the show. Me too. Now look at that. I've just got to say for a second. We can go through this. But Jason, I lost it once, took it right back. You know, for the people that write in and they say it's impossible for someone to win if they don't get to pick first. Well, I just proved it, didn't I?

It is. You know what I'm saying? It is, and it's because you killed me on the other picks. I really blew it on the other picks. That's what got me. Yeah, yeah. So let's run through yours real quick. There was a faster A-series chip, the capture button,

which is called the camera capture. What what is the name i've read it a thousand times today and like camera control i cannot get that one in my head uh the capture button not a name for functions yep um apple intelligence features given a date more specific than quote this fall october baby yep there's when it's first coming and then you had this increased screen brightness which none of the iphones got 2000 nits i was very surprised about that i was too an apple watch gets a larger screen yep you got that apple watches are a new physical size you got that even though they didn't say it at all uh we'll get to it lots of very weird detail

choices today which i'm fascinated to talk about. New AirPods, non-Pro or Max introduced. You got that. But there was no specific macOS release date set. It's September 16th. There you go. It's September 16th. But they didn't say it.

But it wasn't in the video. Neither did they say for iOS either. It's September 16th. Wild, wild. But it's not in the video. Apple TV Plus trailer or promo. They did not show any, which is also weird, I do think. Yeah. Then we go over to me.

Pro phones get larger screens, which they did. Five times optical zoom on both phones is true. Ultra wide camera improvements is true. Vertical camera lens on the iPhone 16 line. Yep. Then we have Apple mentions RAM or memory increases for the iPhone line. All right. So this one you didn't get because they don't mention memory increases.

They increase the memory bandwidth, but they didn't specifically mention the memory increase. But we're going to come back to this because it's going to get you a point a little later on, but not here. We'll come back to that in a second so I can do a slight victory lap on it uh new watch face there's two of them i think three of them actually at least but we shot we saw three in the presentation so yeah apple watch se did not get updated though so i don't get that point which is wild specific ios i've had release date set no uh new airpods max introduced i got that and okay vision pro mentioned in is right i'll just mention i did actually ask the airpods uh product manager about the airpods max and i said how are

you referring to the airpods max because is it just that they're new colors and they have a usbc or do they do other things and he said, there's also the enhancement where you can do personal spatial audio. And like with them updating the AirPods Pro and not calling it a new model, but adding new features when they added the USB-C case where they're like, oh, also on the Vision Pro, it's got reduced latency. This is another example of a stealth AirPods update. Barely one. But I would say it's absolutely a new model because of that. I might have quibbled, but the personalized spatial audio puts it across the line for me. And Vision Pro.

Yes. Vision Pro mentioned because they did spatial capture. I was so nervous during that moment because he kept talking and talking and talking and not saying it i'm like say it say the words and he said the words so and then he said the words yeah yeah he got he got there he got there uh and i actually at that moment turned to underscore who came over to watch me today and said i think that just won me the draft. Yeah. The St. Jude Challenge was a failure. Ultimately.

It was a failure. We made it too hard. We need to make it a lot easier because we had like Next Generation Siri. They haven't said that before. They didn't say it. They didn't mention the Emmy Awards. They didn't announce anything with Google Gemini

and they didn't describe anything in this as blow away, which shame on them. But you are going to win the St. Jude Challenge and get three points for the Mike versus Steven as well. And one point for the draft because your choice here was RAM or memory in referring to the iPhone. And unlike your draft pick, which was memory increases here, you just said they're going to refer to the memory or RAM on the iPhone. And they did because they extolled the virtues of these faster wider memory bandwidth

which is one of the most boring things but it doesn't matter you get it so with that i am also brought level with steven on the mike versus steven points we're now on 45 each which is great wonderful so it's 30 points that i get for that in the St. Jude, Mike versus Steven, but in the St. Jude Challenge, I bet three on it, which gets converted to 30. The one thing I say, like, while they did not go as heavy as I thought, honestly, I think it is remarkable that they mentioned memory in reference to the iPhone,

no matter how they mentioned it. But of course they did it in terms of their chip prowess. Of course they did. And they did also refer to it in like the way the spirit of what i was talking about was in there which is they say that they need this to store large models and the bandwidth to access them oh yeah which is why i thought they would talk about ram but they they couldn't bring it upon themselves to say ram they couldn't do it couldn't do it so there we go i feel pretty pleased about winning the draft i'm not gonna

lie yeah yeah i'm i uh i thought i i thought i probably had this one but it all fell apart in the uh i did what i always do which is i uh the day of the event i sit with all of the rumors that we've gotten since we recorded, which usually is at least one more Mark Gurman report, which there was. And I kind of re-grade it all for myself. And I graded you as winning this morning.

Interesting. And then? Surprises happened. Because I thought you were going to get a full sweep of 10. That's what I thought was going to happen. I thought the Apple TV one was questionable. I'm surprised that the screens didn't get any brighter. And I am surprised that they didn't mention the release dates,

although we would have canceled each other out there. So, yeah. I thought you would have got the full sweep. Yep. I want to talk about a couple of overall thoughts about this event yes before we start digging into the products and like so again this is just me as a as a viewer right and like i don't have uh context for stuff i haven't seen products etc but there was there were two things that really stuck out to me one was a lot of apple intelligence

and two was that this event felt like it it was dragging in a few places um the apple intelligence thing was is interesting to me because they it was part of every product that they could talk about it like especially the phones really it's part of the fun part and it's in all of the ads and stuff that they're showing which is super interesting to me because a lot of the fun part. And it's in all of the ads and stuff that they're showing, which is super interesting to me because a lot of the features that they have in the ads and in the promo videos, they're nebulous in both quality and timeline. Yes.

And they're even talking about the personal context. We don't know. There is a scenario where I genuinely believe it's possible that the personal context-powered Siri first appears after the iPhone 17 is shipped. Yeah, I don't think so. I think that that is an early next year thing. I think they talked about October for the first round, in December for a second round, and then there's more coming. So I think they've got a plan to, every couple of months, ship a new set of features as part of their OS plan.

But they haven't given us that information. So maybe I've gone a bit far in there, but I could imagine we get up towards WWDC time before even that begins to start, before we get everything. I think everything that they've announced at WWDC will ship before WWDC next year. And I think probably a lot, most of it will ship. But nevertheless. Probably by like March. Take out my weird timeline because we're going down a road that we don't need to. It is really peculiar, like odd in terms of Apple's marketing to so heavily promote features that we don't even have a date for like the a lot of the

the ads that they're showing for like the iphone 16 or whatever it was like that one of people in a train station everybody's using apple intelligence and like only one of the demos was going to be any of those features available that we know in the next couple of months and in october i just think that's really i don't know it was just it was interesting and a little strange but i guess that's just the position they found themselves in and that's just the way it's going to be for this for this cycle and then the dragging like i think i think part of my feeling about this event which was really weird which was how much they were talking about things we either already knew about, which I understand that happens always, but also like small updates to existing products. Yeah, I have a theory about this, but you're right.

They did a whole section about the Apple Watch Ultra 2, which is not new. They did a new color and new bands. They did a whole thing about the AirPods Pro 2, which is a new software feature, but not new hardware. But they also spent time talking about that product and what it already does as well as adding on those new interesting things. Right. Well, they extolled the virtues of the features that they added to the AirPods pro last year,

but are going to now be in the AirPods. And they talked about them again too. And then of course the AirPods max, which is very weird because they acted really in that section, they acted like it was new and it's basically not other than like very, some very minor changes. It's all this time has passed and there's very little that's new about it. So I agree um it's

always going to be a challenge i i think my counter would be that they wanted to place these products in the context like i think it's really good that they mentioned the airpods pro because not only do they have an announcement which is the hearing aid stuff which is very interesting but also that way you can see the whole stretch of the airpods product line um and i think that it gets weird when you don't talk about one of the key parts of the product line in fact the most popular part so putting it in that context i get but i can also get that if you're looking for the new they had a lot of the old what the thing that i noticed was the vagueness there's a lot of vagueness in these announcements yeah um they're as if they weren't sure like some of it was as if they weren't sure i mean i'm sure they record

maybe alternate versions just in case things change but it felt like they were either not sure or they were not willing to put a a uh a definitive item on it when they built the video so the one that really struck me, I mean, first off, they didn't mention watch sizes. They didn't say, here are the names of the millimeters of the two sizes. They never referenced there were two at all. There were two.

Yeah, I had somebody come up and say, did they eliminate the smaller watch? And it's like, well, no, they're both right here in front of us. But it was a real question. It wasn't until I could reload the newsroom after the event to find out there was a small one. It was really, really weird.

And the one that I thought, that I noticed that I thought was odd is while making superlative claims longest iphone battery life ever they didn't say what the battery life was yeah that's wild right like it's the longest ever it's the best ever and that is huge jumps like okay well you're gonna tell us then. Fair enough. Because stuff like that, I mean, we'll get into that because I've done the digging, so I have numbers for you later on in the episode. But they are significant. So it's like, usually you say something like,

it's like 10 minutes more. You know what I mean? And again, it was like, I don't even know if they gave, they didn't really talk about measurements of any kind, like the weight of the watches and all this kind of stuff. I think they gave like 10%. I they gave one biggest watch display ever it was all

yeah it was an odd it was i thought like for a for a presentation that included a discussion of improved memory bandwidth it was interesting that a lot of things they did they did say 9.7 millimeters for the thinness of it so they did throw that in there but a lot of the stuff was sort of like oh it's the biggest ever it's the thinnest ever it's the longest ever with no detail which i just found very weird for a video where you could boast about the detail and instead they're like meh you know look it up on the internet detail shmeetmeetail. Yeah, I guess so. This episode is brought to you by Uni Pizza Ovens. Uni is the world's number one pizza oven company, letting you make restaurant quality pizza in your very own home. Uni Pizza Ovens can reach up to 950 degrees Fahrenheit, cooking pizza

in as little as 60 seconds. The high temperature that an Uni oven will achieve is what makes the pizza that you'll cook in an Uni Pizza Oven stand out from what you'll cook in a regular home oven. They're also incredibly quick to heat up. You'll be ready to go from turning it on to the heat being achieved that you need, that 950 degrees, in just 20 minutes, which is enough time to get your toppings ready, start getting your dough ready, so you can get your first pizza on the go. so you can get your first pizza on the go. Whether you love authentic wood-fired flavor, the convenience of cooking with gas, the ability to choose whether you want to cook with wood, charcoal, or gas,

or even electricity, there is an Ooni oven that fits your needs and lifestyle. Ooni have ovens like the wood pellet-fueled Fira 12 and the multi-fueled Karu 12G for maximum portability it's made for those who like cooking on the go camping and getting out into the wilderness but if you want the convenience of gas and also love the flavor of wood fired cooking you should check out uni's karu line because you can use wood or charcoal right out of the box or get the optional gas burner for cooking flexibility they also now have an electric oven, the Vault 12, where you can

make pizza both indoors and outdoors, which I have this oven and I love that. I love that I have that flexibility because, you know, weather in the UK, not always reliable, no matter what the season. And so I love that if we decided we want to have a pizza weekend, we don't need to hope that the weather's good to go outside to make it because we can make it inside or outside, whatever we choose. And the pizza that we make in our Ooni ovens tastes great. But I also just really enjoyed the process. I just think it's a lot of fun. It's a nice family activity. It's fantastic. But Ooni ovens are definitely more than just pizza too. You can cook anything you can cook in an oven. You can cook in an Ooni pizza oven. And they have in their wonderful app, they have recommendations and recipes for all kinds of foods. So you can see that even like desserts and stuff like that. Ooni Pizza Ovens

start from just $299 of free shipping to the US, UK and EU. They also make cast iron cookware, pizza peels, thermometers and loads of other accessories to help you level up your cooking experiences. Listeners to this show can get 10% off their purchase of an Ooni pizza oven. Just go to Ooni.com, that's O-O-N-I.com, and use the code UPGRADE2024 at checkout. Ooni pizza ovens are the best way to bring restaurant quality pizza to your very own home. That is Ooni.com, and use the code UPGRADE2024, and you'll get 10% off. Our thanks to Ooni pizza ovens for their support of this show. 2024 and you'll get 10% off.

Our thanks to Uni Pizza Ovens for their support of this show. Let's talk about the iPhone 16 to begin. Now, of course, as always, there'll be some features that are on this phone and some features that are on the Pro phone and some that mix and match around. We'll get into different detail

at different spots, but both of these phones, Apple references being designed ground up for Apple intelligence, which is a great way of saying we didn't know we were going to be doing this when we were designing the last one. And with that comes the A18,

which is very powerful in a bunch of ways. Yes, it's very much in the generation of the M4. It's the second generation three nanometer process. And the way they describe, you know, they're using the M4 cores. And, I mean, it is the phone version of the M4. Yeah. The colors. Now, you can tell me about this.

From the imagery on the website, they look incredibly saturated. We have ultramarine, teal, pink, and white and black. How did they look to you? I can't really comment on pink because i'm bad at pink you know this about me yeah i can comment on ultramarine and teal and they look great that ultramarine is this blue it's great i love it yeah it's beautiful the ultramarine is great and the teal you know if you like something that's more green it's they got it for you they got it they got a bluey and a greeny and then apparently a pinky but again not my best

and then it looks very very good pink it looks like honestly it looks like barbie pink right like that very very bright hot pink is how it looks so it also i think looks really good these colors once again they all look really good real colors are back on the iphone after a little bit of an absence of course not on the pro models at all really but here they are and that ultramarine is a winner it's really good and on apple's website with each of the colors they have a home screen tint that wallpaper that matches i'm sure they do it doesn't look good sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry it just'm sure they do. It doesn't look good. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It just doesn't. In my opinion, it doesn't look very good. So the capture

button is now camera control. Camera control. It's going to take a little bit to settle in. I am assuming you have used the camera control. Have I ever? I have. Tell me what it's all about because i am genuinely very excited about this it looks great camera control camera control so first off it's like the little sapphire button and then it's got like sensors under it and then when they make their case which by the way they detail the cases and it was which one is missing yep fine woven is gone it's gone but the other ones are still there so um they've got a clear case in the in the silicon case and they

actually have a thing where they're they're doing the electrical conductive kind of bridging in a sapphire top and like so it's non-trivial to get this thing to be compatible with cases but they did it i mean let me pitch something real quick right so we were talking about who spoke about before right fine woven if that was going to go what were they going to do to replace it i mean they actually have some other options beats are making cases now jason you maybe didn't know this uh there is on the on the apple store a polycarbonate beats case which is interesting how's the sound they also have some other cases from like some of their other third-party suppliers that just have a cut out in them which is unfortunate um yeah so they're thinking about getting rid of

the fine woven case right and part of the problem is yeah but we're going to lose the high-end case market where it's like well this year we're making the only cases anyone's going to want to use because nobody wants to deal with the hole in the side of the phone and i don't know how well third-party manufacturers will be able to produce something that works for this i think that's fascinating to see but i think it's going to be interesting to watch it's not going to be so much of an issue because everyone's going to want the silicon cases so it will work best with the camera control so um the way camera control works it it does take a little getting used to but it is um kind of delightfully tactile so you put your finger on it you're gonna and if you're not phone's not unlocked and you press it it opens to the camera um and then the way it works is

you put a little bit of pressure on it and it will focus if you leave your finger on it, not double tap, you leave your finger on it and you put two little pulses of pressure, it brings up a little menu up there of other items that you can change by here. And you can scroll back and forth between them. Whichever one you pick, then you can slide your finger back and forth to scroll. So if you have your camera up and it's set to zoom, then when you slide your finger back and forth on the camera control, it will zoom in and out. But you can also, with your finger staying on it, do a sort of squeeze, squeeze, little double squeeze. And then it brings up all the different things you can set. And so you can swipe over to photographic styles. And then you push down a little bit.

And now you're in the photographic styles. And now you swipe through various styles. And they're visible. None of this is taking a picture, though. Because to take a picture, you've got to push down all the way. And it's an actual, like, the button depresses. So there's haptics on your swipes and stuff, but then you push down and you can feel it.

It is a button being pushed down. And that's when your picture gets taken. And I think if you push and hold, it does video, grabs video. So you basically have to learn a little bit about like, one of the things that I found is that I wanted to double tap and that's not how it works. You leave your finger on it and you do that sort of essentially halfway down

gesture. You do the pressure on it twice and that allows you to navigate through the menu if you want to do that. But in practice, I think people will get like the thing that really matters to them and that'll be the default. And so you'll bring it up and you'll be able to swipe left and right to do whatever exposure or styles or whatever. And then you squeeze in the button, you know, the shutter goes off and that's it. And that's the whole point of it is it's a it's a dedicated control. And a bunch of people ask, what about like doing something else with it? I don't know. I did not get an answer to that question what i would say is the strong implication i got is that this is a per app

api so that like other camera apps will also be able to use it but i don't yeah there is there's some documentation for camera control on the developer website now and it is talking about purely for being for camera apps for camera apps yes but you can do whatever you want by and large within that right so like they showed snapchat they had keno twos like two third-party apps and they were using different features from their applications. Like I think with Snapchat, you could choose who is this going to be sent to, which is an amazing use of this thing where you have like, you know, almost like the settings on a camera. Like, you know, this is photo or video.

It's like, oh, this is my friends. I just think this is great UI. I mean, there is a lot of complexity within that button. But I actually think that's great because, as you said, for most of the time, you're not going to need to worry about it, but you always have the ability to change any settings that you want just by tapping and swiping on the button

and you see it right in front of you instead of the new camera app. I think it's really cool. And then what I would say about people asking, you know, what about automating it or controlling it in some other way? Well, what's really happened here, and you can see it in their demonstrations, is the action button is no longer a camera button. It's whatever you want it it's the action button the camera control is for the camera and that's how they designed it now in the long run will apple let other apps do it i could see scenarios where having a little slidey thing on the side might be useful in other apps maybe i don't know what their philosophy is going to be about no it's always about the camera this should be for for

camera stuff i think that's what i think i think it makes sense to just have this be for camera stuff because you're going to get in a scenario where like a mastodon app's going to want you swiping up and down and you know there's a nicety in that but i think for a focused button on the experience of taking photos which is one of the most important things that we do on our phones um i think it makes a lot of sense. And then, of course, they also have the other feature. Well, we'll talk about that when we get to the pro because I think that's a, I think that was a pro only feature, the humane killing thing, but we'll get to that in a bit. The camera layout for the iPhone 16 has changed to the vertical and they've added the 48 megapixel,

they're calling it fusion camera now. I think that's new. I don't remember it, but there's a 48 megapixel camera that is on the iPhone 16 and it enables the kind of zoom in for the 12 megapixel two time, 2x zoom, right? Because it doesn't have a telephoto lens and they've added a 12 megapixel 2x zoom, right? Because it doesn't have a telephoto lens and they've added a 12 megapixel ultra wide, which enables macro on that device. So it's, it's very much like last generation iPhone kind of tech here where you've got the 48 megapixel camera, uh, with the, where it'll, it'll shoot a 24 that's based on a composite of the 12 and the 48, right? The, the, the binned pixels, but also the full,

and then they, they put it all together and make that 24 megapixel thing. This is what they introduced, I think last year on the pro phone. And then they've got, and then they've got the, the 12 megapixel ultra wide, very much like what I think the pro phone had last year as well.

So it's a, it. So it's great. I mean, honestly, it's a really great update to get that in the base phone. I just say, sorry, the chat, the Discord is freaking out because I said humane killer, as in I meant like humane AI pin killing feature? Those two words together seem to freak everyone out. It's the humane killer. Yes, they'll feel no pain when you kill them with your iPhone 16 Pro. It's like that thing on Futurama, right?

Where the box that Bender gets into. Yeah, and the answer is that that is not a pro feature. That's just a feature. And it's unclear. It's a feature that doesn't exist yet yet but it's this visual intelligence feature where i think you hold your your camera app up to something and then you press and hold on the button no you from the lock screen press and hold the button so okay and that brings up a non-saving camera that's just going to detect and run an ai analysis yes Yes. You point your, it's called visual intelligence,

you point your phone at things that you want Apple intelligence to tell you more about. So like they do a dog and it's like, that doesn't make sense. But like, you know, a poster and it can save it. Like, what is this building? That kind of thing. Sure. And so it is that

like, the thing that was always going to come for these devices like the rabbit and the humane AI pen, because built into the phone, why do we need a device for this stuff? That's kind of like the thing. And it's actually ended up happening. But yeah, it seems like you can correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to open the camera app with the camera control, you press it once, right? And then that opens the camera app so this is if you press and hold then it will take you to visual intelligence yeah okay makes sense um yeah you could do spatial capture now for vision pro because the the stack the right way the lenses

yes um and they've added macro to the ultra-wide, which they need to do if they're going 48 megapixel on the lens because it changes the distance that you can be to actually be able to focus on an image. Right. So that's that. The bigger battery.

So it's 22 or 27 hours of video playback. You can see it wherever you get in the regular or the plus. So regular is 22, plus is 27. They use video playback as like the biggest one because it's got the biggest numbers. That is two hours more for the iPhone 16, one hour more for the iPhone 16 plus. Okay. That's pretty good. It's good because any amount of hours is always good, right? Like in an iPhone.

A lot of Apple's products, they solve for other things, right? They'll make a product thinner and they keep the battery the same. They did that for the Apple Watch. They've done it for iPads forever. Laptops are all day battery life. I'm happy that they continue to make decisions that make the iPhone last longer. So like these iPhones, in know, in the Pros,

the Pros have gotten a little bit heavier, in part because of the battery, in part because they're a little bit bigger. But I like that they will make different decisions for how the phones will work so they can add bigger batteries to them because it is one of the most important things for the usage of our devices, being able to use them.

And the phones still start at $799 and $899. And Kyan Jones's line, which I loved, which is that the iPhone holds its value more than other smartphones, which I'm sure is true, but it's still just very funny anyway. And I'm sure you appreciated the intense focus on going to the Apple store to talk to one of our people who can help you with a trade-in and they really know what they're talking about. I thought that was very funny. And they continue to press that stuff. This episode is brought to you by Delete Me. Have you ever wondered how much of your personal data is available on the internet?

It's an uncomfortable thing to think about. Your private information could be out there. And there are data brokers. They make this their business to collect and sell people's data. But the good thing is we have a right to stay private, protect our privacy, and get that information removed from data brokers. But how would you do it? Do you know all the data brokers?

How would you find them? This is where Delete.me comes in. Delete.me is a subscription service that removes your personal information from the largest people search databases on the web and in the process helps prevent potential ID theft, doxing and phishing scams. You sign up and provide Delete.me with the information that you want to be deleted and their experts take it from there. Delete.me will send you a regular personalized privacy report showing what information they found, where they found it, and what they removed for you. This isn't just a

one-time service. Delete.me is always out there in the background, in your corner, working for you, monitoring and removing the personal information you do not want on the internet. I love this about Delete.me. I love that they're out there, that I sign up and they have my information and they give me these fantastic reports so I can see exactly what's going on, where my information is and what data brokers they found it on and what process they're in. I also really love that I'm able to tell them

exactly what I want to be removed in case there's some stuff that I do want to remain out there. You can take control of your own data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete.me at a special discount for listeners of this show. can get 20 of your delete me plan and you go today to join delete me dot com slash upgrade 20 and use the promo code upgrade 20 at checkout the only way to get that

20 off is to go to join delete me dot com slash upgrade 20 and use the promo code upgrade 20 at checkout that is j-o-i-n-d-e-l-e-t-e-m-e dot com slash upgrade 20 with the promo code UPGRADE20 at checkout. That is J-O-I-N-D-E-L-E-T-E-M-E dot com slash UPGRADE20 with the promo code UPGRADE20. Thanks to DeleteMe for their support of this show and Relay. So now on to the iPhone 16 Pro, also designed from the ground up for Apple Intelligence

featuring the A18 Pro, which is a beefier version of the a18 right yeah yeah more more stuff more cores yep yeah exactly bigger gpu i think it does has a higher increase in system memory bandwidth to uh 20 i guess we're doing this i i had a question of like in the long run is there going to be a pro chip? Are they going to do two separate iPhone chips? But they have the power, right? They have the skills to design different chips for different models and then reuse them later. I'd imagine that A18 will go in

a future Apple TV or something, but the A18 Pro specifically for the higher end model allows them to differentiate in a bunch of ways and that's great it also has some of the like advanced media video encoders and stuff like that on this chip to help for a lot of the different video processing and stuff that they have um yeah and again when they talk about like um next gen machine learning accelerators in the CPU cores, that is an M4 feature, right? Yeah. Faster ray tracing, you know, they say our latest core, that is that they mean the M4.

So I don't know how much of the M4 is in the A18, but the A18 Pro, there's a lot of M4 in there. So the rails of the phones are still made of titanium. There was some rumors that they were going to get glossy but it looks like it's still matte but maybe a little bit different yeah hard to say i i had brief amounts of time it with them and near them to say but um but yeah and we have black white natural and titanium, which looks kind of gold. Desert titanium happened, it turns out.

Did you get a sense for that color? I didn't get much of a sense for that color. Not my strength, and I only got to see the stack of propones from a distance, but I don't know. Well, and it's weird, right? Because it's sort of like more goldy on the band, and then it's more tan on the back. it's like a two-tone so i'm trying to make a decision here

i think i mean i bought the blue one last year and that one's gone yeah bye-bye bye-bye blue but you can get there's like a black black one right like it's like yeah it looks nice yeah so maybe you get that one i was thinking natural then I was thinking, well, then when I heard it was gold, like when the room was gold, I was like, yeah, I want gold. But now I was like, oh, I'll go back to natural. And then I've seen some more images of the Desert Titanium, and I might just do it. We'll see.

Screens are larger on the Pro phones. 6.3 inches in the Pro and 6.9 inches in the Pro Max. They have the thinnest ever borders on an Apple device, is what Greg does. Yes, to avoid product bloat, they said. Product bloat. Really? Interesting. I think that's what he said. That's weird.

Boop. Product boop. I don't know. I don't know. I think he meant the phones needing to get too big i think right because although they make them a little bit bigger but right so the screens are bigger but they made the the borders the thinnest ever on any product which i think was to avoid product bloat i think that's what jaws said i don't know product blow i would think would mean

having too many products not that one product is getting too i don't know maybe that's not what he said i couldn't understand what he said and i had to run it back in my mind and figured that that was probably what he said the point being they did get a little bit bigger but the but the borders got smaller which means they didn't get as much bigger as they could have gotten given how much the screen expanded you know it's fine uh we got the thing. So the thing I was most hoping for happened, which is a new 48 megapixel ultra wide camera. Product growth. We have a transcript here.

Product growth. I don't know if that's an accurate transcript, honestly. From Apple's transcript from the podcast app? Yeah. I mean, did they upload that or did they just have their algorithm do the transcript? I think I can get it from YouTube because they did do it on YouTube because they labeled all the speakers. I would say product growth is better than product bloat in one way, but it also doesn't, like, we minimize the growth of the product. The growth.

Our product grew by a millimeter this year. Are they peas? Is it a pumpkin? It's a weird phrase either way. I don't care. I kind of like bloat. I'm going to go with bloat. You should, you know?

Just live your best life, Jason. Bloat it out. Bloat it out. Fight product bloat. That's what I say. Well, you'd be fighting product growth, wouldn't you? Because you'd be fighting product growth. I guess they said product growth. What I'm saying is, that's what i say well you'd be fighting product growth wouldn't you because you'd be fine yeah i guess i guess they said product growth what i'm saying is that's a weird phrase i don't like it either way yes i am officially changing it in my notes to growth

but it doesn't matter that is also weird product very weird like like we watered we over watered the iphone this year and it got a little too big come on i don't maybe it's a joke right because like product growth would be a good thing, right? Because you want the products to grow. This is not important. 48 megapixel ultra wide camera. I'm excited about this. Yes.

This is what you wanted. Because of your macro. When I take pictures of things that are close to me, they don't look bad. And I like to take pictures of things that are close to me. That are close to you and you want them to look good. That's why you're taking pictures of them. And they're close to me. So the things that are closest to me, I want to look good.

And five times telephoto, Tetraprism is on both phones. Tetraprism finally made it to the regular one and not just the big one, which as a person who doesn't want a big phone, I think that's wonderful. I was also really excited to see photographic styles. All right. Yeah. They, okay. So photographic styles.

There's a lot here. Photographic styles is a thing that Apple introduced a few years ago. And the idea was that they were going to let you reach down into the camera pipeline, like way back down in the camera pipeline with presets that would change what your photos looked like. And this was a thing that fundamentally changed what got captured or what was processed after it was captured. So the final result would be different. And you couldn't just like, it wasn't just like a filter. captured. So the final result would be different. And you couldn't just like, it wasn't just like a filter. It was actually changing how the data was processed when it was on the sensor and coming up through the pipeline. And that after it was done, you can't go back because that data was

processed and is done now. You can edit the photo, but the photo will be based on the original, which is coming out of photographic styles. Separately, Apple has a thing for post-processing that is filters. And you've always been able to, or for years now, you've been able to do that where you can go into the Photos app and choose edit and choose one of a filter and apply a filter. What they've done this year is not either of those things. It's the new photographic styles on these 16 models are different. And the difference is that it's still reaching down into the base of the, of the pipeline. But what's actually happening is more meta information about your photo is being saved to the file. And what, which is weird, right? So they're saving some more fundamental information about

your picture when you take it, which means that if you take, so for example, this is a great example that I got from the product manager for photos today. You could take a picture with the black and white photographic style on these new models and say, I regret the black and white choice. I want it in color. And you can change the style after the fact. And the color is restored. Amazing. Because the color is restored amazing because the color is there this is fantastic so that so all that information is kind of riding along with your photo it makes the photo size that she said a little bit bigger but what it means is they have the ability to go back

and instead of applying an effect to whatever has been processed you can actually go back down into the pipeline a little bit and reprocess it based on a different selection and it'll look different plus it's doing things where they're able to do some more sophisticated things in terms of like you know enhance these colors and drop these colors out and and and there's a ui with a little box you can move around uh change it, to edit it. That looks really nice as a way to edit. Which is also really interesting. Yeah.

And on top of all of that, the reason I mentioned filters earlier is that on these phones, in the Photos app, the filters are gone. Why would you need them? You use photographic styles instead, which they think are superior

because they're able to use more base data on the photos. So as somebody who's written a lot about the photos app and about the camera app, this is a big change where they have decided to build a much. It's just, it's just a, so, so basically they're like, we like photographic styles, but what if you have regrets later? And the answer is we're going to just write more data to the file that is not visible, but is there so that we could pick it up later and regenerate the file based on different styles. It's wild.

I think it's fantastic. Because I see it as like, when they came up with this thing at first, they didn't have the capability to do it. So it was like, we've come up with this feature, this is how it's going to work. And then over time, through silicon changes and just various engineering changes,

they've been able to get it to the point where they've gotten it here. Because you say, that is much more complicated and probably takes a lot more processing power to be able to swap them around this way. And you say also they need to get into a point where the phones can handle this slight image increase like size increase yeah but whatever it took i love this because keeping my photographic styles is part of the pipeline which means if you have a style set yeah you see it when you're previewing before you shoot you're seeing it in the style yeah that it comes out.

Oh, I didn't mention one of the things that you can do with the photo thing whose name I can never remember. The camera control. There's a gesture where you press down partially and hold where the UI kind of of drops away so you sort of just see the picture which is nice and and that's really great with photographic styles and you can also dial in with the with the photo control you can actually one of the settings is sort of like swiping through a bunch of different photographic styles to find which one you want to use but if you regret it later just edit it and turn it into something different. Love it. Yeah. Very interesting. Similarly, something that I quite liked, if you take 4K, 120 frame video.

Yep. You can choose after the fact to adjust the video speed if you want to. To adjust the playback speed. To make it slower. Yeah, you can play back 24, 30, 60, or 120. Just look pretty cool. I like that. And 4K 120, very impressive.

They had that very funny bit where they had the cops from the cop show from the ad that they did about, what was it? What's that mode called? Cinematic mode. Cinematic mode, yeah. Yeah, and so this time they're running away from explosions. And they're in slow motion and they're having a conversation but why are we running away i also enjoyed the video of the weekend music video where they made they made the weekend sing a song at four times the speed so they could shoot it so funny like i wish it was a very throwaway thing but it's like yeah you just gotta sing faster yeah and i was just thinking

that must be hilarious to watch in real time where he's singing the song at 4x. He had to learn his song at a four-time speed. Yes. Yes. He suffered for his own. I want the behind-the-scenes footage of hearing him do that. I know. Absolutely.

But I like the humor in the 4K 120 thing, the best part is like, don't look back. It ruins it. It's just, it's good. They're playing with, uh, the tropes, but, but 4k 120 is amazing. Like that is a very impressive, uh, achievement to get 120 frames at 4k in this phone. So that's good too. And also you can do spatial audio capture with video now. With, with mixing. And also you can do spatial audio capture with video now. With mixing, that's the part that I thought was wild,

is that they've got different presets there where they're able to sort of say, only show what's on camera, or have it be like they're in a studio, or have it be cinematic, or just have it be the sort of standard. They're doing a lot of stuff with that, the underpinnings of their whole spatial audio thing

to capture that audio. Pretty cool. Much bigger battery increases on this phone. Four hours across the board, huh? Yes. 27 and 33, respectively, for the Pro and Pro Max. The Pro Max, as always, is the biggest battery they've ever had in an iPhone. It's a big boy. But yeah, 33 hours of video playback on the Pro Max, 27 on the Pro,

four hours, respectfully, for each. Pretty cool. I'm going to tell you, Jason, I'm feeling real good about my decision to go down. I think I'm going to do it. You think you're going to do it?

I think I'm going to do it. The last question that I wanted today was what was the battery life situation going to do it. You think you're going to do it? I think I'm going to do it. The last question that I wanted today was what was the battery life situation going to be like? And I feel good with what they've come out with, where I'll lose a little bit, but not that much. From the coming from, I think it's like an hour is what I would lose, I think. Because Apple has this cool feature on the website now,

where you can, on the actual product page, you can kind of, in the battery life section, you can just choose like what phone do you want to compare this with? They have this for like speeds and battery and stuff like that. It's just like a dropdown. And so if I compare it to the iPhone 15 Pro Max, it's two less hours on the iPhone 16 Pro. And I think I can live with that. That's not too bad. So that was the last question that I wanted answered. Pro, and I think I can live with that. That's not too bad. So that was the last question that I wanted answered. But yeah, I think I'm going to do it. I think I'm going to do a 16 Pro Desert Titanium. I think it's going to be my phone choice this year. Well, the 16 Pro is much larger than the iPhone 6 Plus plus was 10 years ago and that's when you were

going into plus club you know underscore said that's come a long way and i actually know you i'm sure you do know this i don't know if it would be surprising to you to hear now do you want to know what other phone is bigger than the 6 plus screen size the i... I don't know. The iPhone Mini. The iPhone Mini screen was bigger than the iPhone 6 Plus' screen. Plus Club! Isn't that incredible? So... Well, diagonal,

right? So, yeah. Because it had a big frame around it. Oh, no, actually it was the same. It was the same size. It was the same size, of course it was. They're course it was they're very similar products isn't that incredible though the plus yeah it's like 5.4 to 5.5 looks basically the same but yeah i'm uh you know i think that here's the thing i think potentially these phones again they're getting they're really big it's like really really big and i think a 6.3 inch screen is is going to be good for me um 6.9 inches is big uh it's

seven inch phone i need yeah it's maybe it's maybe more than i need um and i think i want to give it a go this year because i think i think i'm going to enjoy a change and i'm and i'm actually overall like the package is interesting to me a lot of the camera stuff like the camera package this year i'm i'm excited about because they've added in something that i was hoping for like the the camera control i think is a really cool idea they've given me what i wanted in the 48 megapixel ultra wide and then they surprised me with the photographic styles changes which i'm which i'm really excited about because i love that feature um and so i'm pleased to see it getting some more love a few other notes here um nobody had a new version of voice memos that allows you to do multi-track with cancellation

of the other tracks so it all sounds wonderful but that was in there and you might think well that seems silly but as they pointed out quite rightly like musicians do their demos and voice memos sometimes like that's their it's with them and they have a something they need to get down and they use voice memos my underscore reminded me do you remember that for a little while apple made a music focus version of voice memos underscore reminded me do you remember that for a little while apple made a music focused version of voice memos which they got rid of called music memos for the for the same reason yeah for the same reason they're trying to they're trying to get to give more features to the people who use that functionality yep and and you know sometimes they're just you're out and about and you gotta you gotta sing your song or whatever.

And that's just, they don't do this for no reason. They do this because these are the stories that they hear from people. Yep. And I also wanted to mention the Qi 2 support and a new MagSafe charger. Oh, I'm so upset about that that i don't want to replace them i have so many is it is it not i think it's not i think it's backward compatible with old mag safe chargers yeah but yeah but this i now know that i have a mag safe charger that is potentially available to me which is twice as fast. Yes.

Well, you're just going to have to live with that. Yeah, I think I'll be fine. I think I can live with it, but I'm still sad about it. Hmm. But yeah, support for ChiTu. ChiTu. This episode is brought to you by our friends

at Backblaze. Backblaze are the folks that look after your digital data with their unlimited computer backup for macOS and Windows for just $99 a year. So you can protect all your data automatically without ever having to think about it. And it's not just for personal use. Backblaze is great for businesses.

You can protect the whole team's data through a centrally managed administrative console. It's easy to deploy across multiple workstations with silent and link-based deployment options. And the enterprise control add-on includes granular access permissions, advanced single sign-on options, group management controls, and compliance support. You're in safe hands with Backblaze. They know their stuff. They've been recommended by the New York Times, Inc. Magazine, Macworld, PC World, Limefire, Wired, Tom's Guide, 9to5, Mac and more, and me. I recommend them. I've been using Backblaze,

I don't even know how many years. It's got to be over 10 years. Everything for me now is over 10 years because of how long I've been doing this professionally. But for me, Backblaze, absolutely essential. I don't ever want to worry about losing files. So I make sure Backblaze is on my computers, it's on my family's computers. I just want to know that it's all there. And something else that I love about them, they have an iOS app

and I have multiple times gotten files from my Backblaze backup because they were on my desktop and they weren't in Dropbox or they weren't somewhere else. And so I was able to open the Backblaze app. I can look into my backup, get the file that I need, and I can share it or I can use it on my iOS device or something like that. It's amazing. You can access your data from anywhere in the world. It is a super handy feature. I absolutely love Backblaze and I cannot recommend enough that you use it yourself. Backblaze offers multiple restore

options, including rapid recovery via USB hard drives shipped to you in the event of catastrophic data loss or ransomware, or go old school and restore by mail for a refundable fee, a hard drive with all of your data actually on it, shipped directly to your door. Visit backblaze.com upgrade so they know where you came from and will continue to support the show. They've restored over 55 billion files for their customers. Do not be that person that forgot to back up your important files. Receive a fully featured, no risk, free trial at backblaze.com slash upgrade. Go there now, have a play around, poke around, start protecting yourself from

a data disaster. Don't put it off. Start today. Backblaze.com slash upgrade. Our thanks to Backblaze for their support of this show and all of Relay. Let's talk about the Apple Watch Series 10. The Apple Watch itself uh thinnest apple watch ever

lightest apple watch biggest display biggest display watch on any watch isn't that bigger than the ultra 2 isn't that incredible that is actually it's bigger now it's wild the watches themselves aren't bigger but the screen is biggerras are all bulky and big and stuff. They've got a lot of stuff going on. Now, we mentioned this earlier, but they just did a really weird job of showing off this product because they just refused to talk about how big it was and refused to talk about the fact that there was a small one. It was really, really big. 9.7 millimeters thin.

That's fine. What I found is it seems to me that a lot of their thinness feels like it came out of the bulge of the sensor array on the bottom. I think they slimmed that down. I don't think it's as bulgy as it was. There's a really good graphic on their website where you can kind kind of you know you get those two images and you can like swipe over one or the other you see this all the time and it kind of shows you a difference between two images you know so you see this on the web they have this for the apple watch so you can go from like series 9 and series 10 and you can see the comparison and yes it looks like as you said the majority of it is coming from uh the back well

i did that i just did that in reality where i had my mine and and the one on the thing and i held them up i looked at them but yeah it's it is it seems like which we don't think of right like because my first glance at it i thought does this look thinner because i was thinking about the aluminum you know body of the watch, but what they've done is not only have they re-engineered the bottom so that the metal frame goes all the way around now, but I think the, the,

the dome of the sensor also feels like it's a little bit less. So the dome, looking at their imagery, the dome is a little bit, but it's the actual back that the dome is a little bit but it's the actual back that the dome is on that seems to have gotten really thin yeah and then the body is a bit thinner too yeah it's it's a i mean you're talking about incredibly detailed changes right these are very tiny changes that they that they, to enable, like they said, and I thought this was

really a good point that 10% thinner than the series nine, when you're talking about such a tiny object to get 10% out of it is actually kind of impressive. So, so yeah, it is, uh, it's bigger, but thinner. And I mean, we'll see what people feel. It looked nice. Having a screen that large seems like it would be a real treat. They did a lot of re-engineering. The speaker grills look totally different.

You can play media back through the speaker now, which is interesting. Really be annoying to people. But if you need to play a podcast or your apple watch you could do yeah yeah i don't really know if that's the thing that you need to do honestly um yeah you know you got it i suppose it's there if you need to this is a very just this apple watch in general is just very interesting to me like the decisions they made and the decisions they didn't um like it still uses the same charging mechanism it still uses the same band connection these are just

interesting things like they've they've decided they wanted to change the way the watch looks and feels but it's still rounded edges like there's a lot of choices that went into this, which is intriguing. The display, it's the first wide angle OLED that Apple has made. So it's nicer to look at from multiple angles. So while this screen does not get as bright as the Apple Watch Ultra, which says 2000 nits compared to 3000 nits, the Apple Watch Series 10 is, according

to Apple, 40% bright and when viewed at an angle. So we're in this weird spot with the Apple Watch Series 10 and the Apple Watch Ultra 2 that we get in sometimes of Apple products where the new one is better than the

previous best one. But it's not the quote-unquote most expensive or quote-unquote best. Right. And we're in that spot now with this, which is really interesting. Well, I'm not sure the Ultra, like, and they're trying to define the Ultra as, you know, rugged and for sports and stuff. Yeah. And it's a different style. But the Ultra, I would say the Ultra is not a pro in the sense that it always has to be the best. Which is good because although we got a long thing about the Ultra in this presentation, it's just the Ultra 2.

They didn't update it this year. But this Series 10 really got a yeah really got a boost and as somebody who does not have an ultra i look at this series 10 announcement i think that's really interesting since i'm a couple of couple of years back one for you i'm i'm and and i like i have a black uh titanium brush titanium model and so like they've got the jet black aluminum they're they're shiny polished aluminum one um They've also got that dark slate gray titanium. They brought titanium back

and banished stainless this time. Yeah, so the full color lineup, jet black aluminum, also rose gold and silver aluminum, but they're not polished. They're just regular aluminum. Yeah. Then titanium,

we have natural gold, slate, and silver. And there's also a polished silver hermes only version of the titanium why not i saw that gold titanium jason and did something to me i miss so much i polished gold apple watch oh you're gonna go all are you gonna be desert gold mike now i can't do it the battery i don't think because because you love the ultra so much yep i love my favorite thing it's no black ultra looks good too i gotta say black ultra looks really good it looked so

okay apple ultra 2 is now in black really weird really weird uh but it looked fantastic black and orange man that looked good i talked that's my san francisco giants colors right there and your and yours too and uh that the new milanese i didn't see it but a friend of the show john gruber saw it and he told me he felt like it was um like made of plastic or something in a it only just in the sense that he felt he could not he could not believe how light the titanium villainous loop was and i i can believe that and the clasp i saw the clasp on the on that one and it's serious like it's a it's not accidentally falling off your wrist you like click it on. Yes. Serious is the way to put that. Serious. I think

it's a bit much, but you know. It's ultra. It's ultra. And it's doing what it should be doing. They still have the Milanese. You can go get it with the magnetic, which I love. It's beautiful and it's very nice to adjust. But that thing is like your

scuba dive in. You don't want your watch to come off. They said it was for scuba. That's good sounds good sounds good anyway i am i am tempted this year since this is also not my iphone upgrade year for my personal phone necessarily although i can always do that if i want but um but the the new watch is very tempting to me i'm very interested i'm incredibly tempted by the gold titanium but i just i don't know what i don't know what to do because i don't i know i'm not going to be on the ultra forever i know that because right i can see you can see the trajectory now that the apple watch is going to continue to improve and it's it's gonna be different to the ultra like i know what you mean about like it's

the rugged one but like there was i there i think there was still a question of like but will this always also be the best one right like yes there was a possibility of that because it has been the best one i think for the last couple of years in its full suite of features but that is now changing and maybe i just need to let go of the amazing battery life. I'm disappointed that they've yet to find a way to increase the battery life, and now, you know, I was talking earlier about what Apple prioritized, and it seems like they are not interested

in increasing the Apple Watch's battery life because they made it thinner, right? They didn't, if they would have not made it thinner, maybe they could have gotten another couple of hours of battery or something, or maybe an hour, but who knows, right? But this is the route that they're going down. But I was also pretty excited. You know me and my bugbear about Apple health features.

Sleep apnea detection. Real feature. Does not require an oxygen sensor. Is based entirely around the accelerometer. So you're wear when you sleep and it figures out from that and they've they've done you know they've scientifically validated this and they're getting regulatory approval and they're going to roll it out and it basically watches you for 30 days and then issues you a report uh of moderate to severe sleep apnea at which point they suggest that you go talk to a doctor, right?

Because they're not going to do anything more than that. But it's to give you that warning sign. And what I thought was interesting, and we got this a couple of times in this presentation, there was the, because it's for the AirPods as well, the way they're phrasing it is, we expect clearance from the fda and other regulators soon and then it will be available in and for the sleep apnea

detection was like 150 countries or something like how many countries even are there so that at least what they're saying this is what they're saying is like we we expect this feature to be available worldwide this isn't going to be one of those you know, what they're saying is this isn't going to be like Apple Pay Cash, okay? It's not going to be like a one country or two countries. It's going to be everywhere. Google tells me there are 195 countries in the world.

All right. Well, apologies to the 45 who are not going to get the sleep apnea detection. Anyway, so I like that because we don't have clearance yet but we expect clearance from the fda who we've mentioned by name and other regulators real soon for this and you know that's great because the whole one of the one of the great successes over the last 10 years of the apple watch has been as they highlight in their videos

and they did again in the opening video today is it not only is, you know, calls for help when you fall, when you've been in a crash, things like that, but it's also when you've got a medical issue that it can call it out for you and warn you about it. And they've been able to do that with things like arrhythmia for a while now. And they're going to be able to do with sleep apnea, which I mean, they had, there's some great stats here, right? It's 80% of people who have sleep apnea are undiagnosed. And then similarly about the hearing protection, they're like, even the people who know they've got hearing loss don't get treated. So this is part of Apple's philosophy that they're trying to do in changing the world by improving people's health,

by providing them with information, and then referring them to their healthcare providers. So we saw two big ones of those. And this is what I want from them because when they're able to do something like this, they are able to affect change,

which is like, if we're going to wear these devices, they should do these things for us too, right? They should make positive change to our lives. They should be able to help us out in scenarios where we otherwise wouldn't know we need it. But also, I don't like, from a presentation perspective, I don't like, from a presentation perspective, kind of dancing around stuff. I find that frustrating when it's like, we put this thing in there and maybe, you know, you might, I don't know, maybe, I don't know. Don't worry about it. I don't like that. If you're going to tell me that this device can measure something,

I want it to be impactful. Just like you can find out your bottle of oxygen for fun and for no great reason that we can tell you you can use it. I don't find that to be enticing. This is great. This is exactly what I want because they did the work, they did the studies, and then they've done the work

with the regulators and they will do the work with the regulators because they believe in this and they will be able to make serious change to people's lives. And like, that's what I want them to be doing.

And like, I'm really happy that they have done that. And I'm very excited about this feature because it's going to help people. And that's what they should be doing with all of these resources that they have done that and i'm very excited about this feature because it's going to help people and that's what they should be doing with all of these the resources that they have at their disposal so good work apple they added a water temperature sensor and a depth sensor like the ultra has um and we already mentioned the ultra 2 it's good for people who are active

yeah i i thought it was interesting that their pitch is like listing a bunch of sports tube it's good for people who are active yeah i i i thought it was interesting that their pitch is like listing a bunch of sports and it's like oh for cyclists we have this for swimmers we have this you know we have a compass for this for hikers we got all those things and you know i sat there thinking how would i if i if if i went to stan who was giving this pitch, and I was like, Stan, curling. What can you do for me? And I don't know. I think you'd have to do a lot of machine learning based on the movements of a curling delivery

or a sweeping in order to properly measure it. I'm just saying I would be very interested in figuring out how they could handle curling tracking on the Apple Watch. With the Apple Watch Ultra 2, if your wrist got caught in between two curling stones, it was less likely to be broken. Yes, I'm just thinking, in terms of workout,

could they do some training so that they could measure the speed of my delivery or things like that? I don't know if they can. I don't know, but I'm just thinking about it. Oh, I believe they could. I believe they could. With the accelerometer, I think they could. Yeah, they just choose not't know if they can. I don't know, but I'm just thinking about it. Oh, I believe they could. With the accelerometer, I think they could. They just choose not to, but they could. Alright, grow up, Apple, alright?

Stop being such cowards. Will you just do the work for curling? Just do it. Grow up. So here's my interesting Apple Watch note that I wanted to mention, which is, there's even a slide at the end, a little bento slide for Apple Watch watch has the word intelligence on it somebody else's intelligence i love it i love it what intelligence do you mean

do you mean artificial intelligence well no would you mean apple intelligence which is a brand name no what they really mean is machine learning stuff. So they're like, hey, like on device Siri, because they're like, we have a neural engine in our package. Oh, does that do Apple intelligence? No, but it does on device Siri and it does crash detection. Here's the thing that's interesting. They want to talk about the neural engine and they want to talk about all the ways that they use machine learning as is classic apple to do all sorts of things that are very impressive

on the apple watch what they can't talk about is apple intelligence because they can't support it because it has too much too many onerous requirements i requirements. I, this can't go on. Like it's, it's early days. They can get away with it this time, but they need a strategy. And I'm thinking now they needed a WWDC next year for how to get Apple intelligence features on the Apple watch.

Even if all it is, is announcing a path where your Apple watch talks to your iPhone and gets help. So there is some stuff. So I've seen people share this before, that notification summaries are on watchOS 11. Okay. Getting sent from your phone. Because it's sent from your phone, right? So they're just sending a summary.

But I don't think, and this is the thing, it's like, I know you can do on-device Siri and that's great, but it's not the new Siri. No, no. And I don't think Apple Watch is going to be able to do Apple intelligence proper for a long time. So I feel like they need to have

some sort of a system, whether it's going to go out to the cloud, to Apple's private cloud compute, or whether it's going to talk to your phone. But we're in an awkward state right now where they want to talk about their machine learning stuff, but they can't call it what they want to call it. So instead, it's sort of like generic intelligence on Apple Watch. I get why. I know it's early. I understand all of this. But at some point, this is going to be a problem. And they're going to need to address this in some way. Because what you don't want, ultimately, is if I have a phone with good Siri and a watch with

bad Siri, you know, right? Like, you don't want to, you've got to square it up somehow. So they're going to have to, they didn't tell that story today. I'm not surprised. That was always the most likely option was don't talk about it. I did get tickled that they put up the thing that says intelligence, one word, because it does make you go, oh, you mean some not Apple intelligence? It's like, but not, well, not the way you think, the way you think right like no no it's this is a a different earlier form of intelligence but at some point they got to deal with that yeah i guess it's one of these things where maybe the combo of getting better at private cloud compute and also just the march of moore's law and technology means that the Apple Watch might get there. But I agree with you that they need to have some kind of bridge until these points can be met.

Yeah, it feels like a long time before they could do something like on-device Apple intelligence on an Apple Watch. Especially because the Apple Watch doesn't have your personal context either, really. And your Apple Watch is going to check all your email and all of your calendar items. Like, you could get there, but that's a lot. And the Apple Watch has a buddy, which is the iPhone. Love a buddy. And also has access to the cloud. If it's online, if it's on cellular, it has access to the cloud.

They could do that. They're just going to have to come up with a way. And I feel this way about a lot of their other products too is that short of of updating the apple tv and the home pod and all of those other things to support apple intelligence the way you do it is by offloading it to a device nearby that has that or sending it to the cloud they're gonna have to figure that out we're at the beginning of year one like it hasn't even shipped so we got time we're bet but they even have to have a solution the beginning next month it starts next month but they're gonna need to come up with a story here next year i was sad that they showed off um image playgrounds again i was hoping

i was hoping yeah i thought we were gonna i mean it goes quick but i was i was hoping they were not gonna and do that. The meme emoji looked a little better, but still not good. Still looked gross to me. The custom emoji. I thought they looked okay. No, no, no. The meme emoji characters that you can make of your friends and family in Midsplay Grounds.

Yeah, I still think that that's a terrible mistake and they shouldn't go down there. But really, the presentation was something like, you know, fun. Anyway, let's move on i do have i do have a tidbit and this is going to make our friend friend of the show casey list sad um but uh there's a new cleanup feature in apple intelligence cleanup is the feature where you can uh erase people in the background of your images and stuff you know well what i discovered today is if you do that on somebody's face, it pixelates their face. Yes, I've seen this online.

So it's a quick way. If you've got like a shot and you want to obscure the face of a person who's in it, you literally edit and do cleanup and go with your finger over their face and it pixelates it. Real clever. Really smart little Easter egg. Yeah, I've used this feature a few times, and it's good. Like, it's fine. Like, I had some pictures when we were at Disneyland in Paris, and there's a picture of me and Nadine in front of the castle, but there's a few people in the background.

They're gone now. You know, it's like, it does the job. No, it does. No, cleanup is a good feature. Cleanup, they're gone now. You know, it's like, it does the job. No, it does. No, cleanup is a good feature. Cleanup works pretty well. Yeah. But I think that the pixelating somebody's face, because you don't want them, you know,

it's like you don't want to show your kid's face on social media. I think that's pretty clever. Yeah, I think that's also really nice. So sorry to Casey who wrote a whole app to do that. Although pixelating, I know it's like a way to do it. It's a bit aggressive to do to a child. It is.

Like, here's my child criminal, you know? Yeah, well, you know, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? You put an emoji on their face, which you can do, but maybe you shouldn't. Zach is just posting something in Discord. Yeah, whatever Zach is doing is not what the current builds of Cleanup do, because they've added this thing in where it pixelates it. Well, I mean, you know, these things maybe don't always work 100% of the time.

I will put, Zach, with your permission, I will put a screenshot of that in the show notes, because, oh, man. Man, oh, man. That is clearly from a previous build. No, it works on the current build. This feature does exist in the current build. It just does.

Well, whatever Zach did is the horror. Yeah, something terrible happened. There was maybe a special implementation. Something very bad happened. Because that's not good. You have to go look at this. Be in the show notes. You can go look.

It's bad. AirPods 4 is now two products. You have to go look at this. Be in the show notes. You can go look. It's bad. AirPods 4 is now two products. We have AirPods 4 and we have AirPods 4 with active noise cancellation. I'm going to say maybe not the best name. Remember we were talking about like, how are they going to do this? there's there's like various kinds of like old airpods and new airpods and all that and so what they decided to do that is to their credit is they're not going to sell i guess old airpods anymore they're going to sell airpods 4

but there's two airpods 4 and they're different and so why are they both AirPods? I don't understand why they're both AirPods. So we have AirPods. So now the new AirPods product line. Why not AirPods 4 and AirPods 5? Why not just do that? Like, why? Right. So it's AirPods 4, also AirPods 4, also AirPods Pro 2, also AirPods Max, which is the second, but it's not called the second.

Yeah. It's great though these announcements are great because what they did is they realized they want to have a more affordable airpods so they've got the 129 model and then they have a second airpods 4 model that has active noise cancellation to uh this lower end design that doesn't have the little thing that little uh silicone tip i straight up and it has noise cancellation how this is technically possible and i look forward i could tell you okay go on i mean i could tell you why it's actually very similar to how airpods uh pro does it um and i i should have stopped you last week when we were

talking about this because the answer is there's a microphone in the airpod so the airpod can hear what's coming from the outside and it cancels it. That's how it works. No, I know. It's not as effective because it's not using the physical clamp down to shut down all the stuff coming into your ear. Yeah. But it can still cancel the sound that comes into your ear, even if it's letting it in. Right?

It's two pieces of cancellation. Part of it is passive, which is you stick a thing in your ear and you can's letting it in right it's two pieces of cancellation part of it is passive which is you stick a thing in your ear and you can't hear as well but the other is active which is whatever sound does get through it cancels and so with this you're going to have more noise leaking in but it can aggressively try to cancel that noise that's leaking in so it can do an okay job we'll see how good a job it does i'm sure it doesn't do as good a job as airpods pro because that's like i i know how it works right like and i think maybe i have not done a good job of explaining my point it's just like i just don't know how effective it would be without creating the seal and so i'm i'm assuming it's better than

i imagined it would be otherwise they wouldn the $50 question here, I guess. Right? Like, they wouldn't do it if it was bad. Yeah. So, and also they've done transparency mode, adaptive mode, conversational awareness. All that stuff. Really incredible. Like, and until they spoke about what they're adding to AirPods Pro 2, I was very much like, why AirPods Pro then? And it seems like they're maybe going to take AirPods Pro into a more health-focused thing, I think, going forward, which is interesting.

Yeah, plus they've got the silicone tips, so they're much more kind of like, they're definitely higher end and more processing power. And I think that that will be whenever they update them, that will be the case. They'll have more capabilities still. that that will be whenever they update them that will be the case they'll have more capabilities still but the fact that they're doing a software update this fall with airpods pro that will turn them in because of the changes in some of the regulations especially here in the u.s they're gonna you know turn them into hearing aids basically they're going to be capable of being hearing aids which is a pretty cool feature and we'll see how they i mean it's going to be interesting to see how the the noise canceling version of airpods for sound how all of these sound compared to each other and what the strengths and weaknesses are that will be something to watch

because um but it's great because like 129 you get into the airpods line and at 179 you get noise cancellation and those all those other fancy features. That's pretty cool. And if it works well, $180 is an incredible price for this product. Good price if it works, yeah, for sure, for sure. It only has to work kind of, you know? Yeah. I'm thinking maybe that these features, these hearing aid features, aren't on the immediate roadmap for me because they specifically, there's more than 100 countries and regions,

but they specifically call out the United than 100 countries and regions but they specifically call out the united states germany and japan and it's to me weird that they wouldn't put the uk in there if because they always do like not because we're special but because apple always puts the uk in if the this is one of those cases yeah this is one of those cases where and this was true in the us only i think last year that there's a question of what are do you have to be like a medical company and make hearing aids with a prescription or do you have the ability to do what they refer to here as the clinical grade over-the-counter hearing aid and this was a change and so so in some countries, it's probably not available yet, but I would imagine this is one of those things about Apple and the size of Apple and the appeal of Apple is Apple doing this product and having hearing aid functionality in a bunch of countries all around the world is going to push countries to change their laws about hearing aids it's going to happen because i'm

not saying every country will do it but it will be a push to say why aren't we doing this why have we prevented products like this from existing and that's i think that's really interesting that apple really does have the ability to set the the discourse about some of this stuff i at least hope that i will get the like what seems enhanced hearing protection feature, which is just doing more, reducing louder noises. That's actually the thing I personally care about the most. But then also being able to take a hearing test is,

would be amazing. And I really want to be able to do that. I would be very interested to know. And again, this is what I was talking about earlier. You're making me wear, not making me, you're making these products that,

that like I want to wear and use. And like Apple really wants me to use them all the time. Why not also make, you know, like make it so I can see if my hearing is good. You know, like I like that, like,

like that, that integration is good. And to make those integrations work very well, again, they need to go out and get regulatory approval. And I just appreciate that they're back in a big way this year with two big health initiatives. I think that's fantastic. And the stats for this one are particularly stark.

80% of people have not had their hearing checked in the last five years or something like that. I don't know if I've ever had my hearing checked. I haven't had my hearing checked in the last five years or something like that. I don't know if I've ever had my hearing checked. I haven't had my hearing checked in the last five years. As an adult. And 75% of people who are diagnosed with hearing loss are untreated. They just- They don't know. How would you know?

They just go about their- Well, no, but they've been diagnosed. They say, you have hearing loss. I'm like, all right. Diagnosed. Thanks. Bye. Yeah.

Okay. That's it. I think a lot of people don't like the idea, and I had this with members of my family. Yes. They don't want to wear a hearing aid. There's stigma. There's a stigma to it. And you know what?

That's actually one of the brilliant things about this is AirPods don't have that stigma attached to it. It's just like, oh, I need to hear you. I'll put in my AirPods, which is the little video they showed. But there's something to that, right? It's really interesting. in my AirPods, which is the little video they showed,

but there's something to that, right? It's really interesting. And also, the fact that your profile, your profile goes along to your devices and is applied to music and TV

and all those things too. Amazing. How about that? It's really smart. I think this is fantastic. Do you know what's Over 100 countries and regions, over 100,

so almost half of the countries, as it turns out, will get this feature, but maybe not in the UK. 50% less than the Sleep Apnea. Yeah. But you know what's not great, though, Jason? What's not great?

AirPods Max. I was going to say you could buy three AirPods 4 with noise cancellation for the price of AirPods Max because it's still $549. All they changed, there's some new colors. It has a USB-C connector instead of a lightning connector woohoo and support for personal spatial audio yeah um which means that there are minor hardware changes in there this is good because it's not a rethink apple have freed me now right by doing this i now know i need to get different over ear headphones that's what i know now because look before there's been i've used them because i really like them and i like the way that they time and my devices and i get all the benefits but i want something that is more comfortable, easier to pack, and I can connect via USB-C to my computer to get audio.

And they gave me one of those. But I also thought that when they upgraded AirPods Max, I would get those because I would get adaptive transparency, conversational awareness. Conversational awareness would be most useful for me on AirPods Max. Indeed. Not there. I can't believe they are charging $550 for this product. I can't. I agree.

They did not even put the new chip in. Look, here's the argument. When it came out, people were like, I can't believe it cost this. But now, they just revved it it's still behind everything else the price hasn't changed it's really it's it's quite a thing it's this is quite a thing and the funny thing is when they introed it they said people love airpods max it's like they do they do i've talked to people who have airpods in spite of everything they do like them but not having any of those those nice new airpods features yeah just literally

and this is mark german reported this and he was right which is they're gonna update airpods max and it's not gonna be anything it's It's going to be like USB-C. And yeah, I guess so. Here we are. I'm really disappointed. I am. I'm really disappointed about this because this is a product that I was hoping to get more out of. And I've got good use out of my AirPods Max, but I think it's time to move on probably

to those Sonys. My wife has the Sony ones that everybody likes and she loves them. So that's probably going to be where I go, but I'm going to miss the features, right? Like I love the feature set of the AirPods line and the AirPods Max has a lot of that. Like I really like the switching between devices. I really like the way that the buttons work and feel, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I guess I'm going to have to start doing some research and decide, like, what do I want to move to? Because I'm just disappointed in this. I really am.

It's very frustrating. So that was the September event. I would say, overall, this was an interesting event. i think the way in which they spoke about stuff is interesting there's a couple of things that disappointed me there's a couple of things that intrigued me and there's a couple of things that i'm super excited about and that is about as good as i could hope for from a september event i think because so much of it is leaked beforehand, you know? What's your overall feeling on this one? You know, iPhone event

is going to be rolling the ball forward a little bit. That's where we are. We have not yet. Next year might be a year where there are some major new kind of innovations in the iPhone. But this is the iPhone is the story and the iphone

is pushing everything ahead getting things to run with apple intelligence tweaking the cameras to be better adding another button so weird that there are two buttons added to the iphone in two years uh to to do some better things that we've we've extolled the virtues of the idea of physical controls to create muscle memory so that you don't have to tap around on a screen that you could feel like it's a little more understandable in your brain and in your hand and your muscle memory to take a picture without thinking about it. There's a lot to be said for all of that. without thinking about it. Like there's a lot to be said for all of that.

So that's all good, right? But it's also just kind of pushing it forward. And that's screens a little bit bigger, battery lights a little bit better. Like we're not in an era where from year to year, the iPhone is going to blow you away. There are going to be moments where there's a big change, but you know, this was not that.

Apple Watch? I think it's really interesting how they continue to evolve the Apple Watch without... Like, 10 years ago, they announced it. If you showed them the Apple Watch of today, the Series 10, 10 years ago, I think people would be like, huh, it still looks like that, huh? Like, they've evolved it a lot over the ensuing 10 years, but still recognizably the Apple watch. It's not radically changed in almost any way. It's, you know, bigger screen, smaller border, thinner. There are lots of things about it, bigger in some dimensions,

thinner there are lots of things about it bigger in some dimensions but it is i think i think the series 10 looks really good but i think it's funny that it looks really good despite the fact that they just keep creeping with it like they don't it's not like they had the same apple watch for five years and then they unveiled a whole new apple watch that completely blew you away and then they kept that for another five years. The Apple watch is more just like every couple of years, it just gets a little bit bigger, a little bit better. And, uh, and this year with that, plus adding sleep apnea without actually adding any new sensors, that's also really interesting. So, so yeah, I, I, uh, it's never never it's a super important event because of what the iphone means um to the world in terms of being a market but for and and getting airpods in line

as well it's really good for them and and apple watch but like in many ways it's more important for the world than it is for those of us who are watching Apple more closely, because it is sort of what we thought. And it is not the revolutionary year. It is just some more evolution. But there's some good stuff there. I think in the end, though, isn't this what it's really about? In the end, it's about Apple intelligence and waiting for Apple intelligence. And so much of this announcement is getting these phones ready for Apple intelligence because that's a strategic future for Apple. That's a strategic direction for them. Even though it's not out yet and it won't even start rolling out until next month, it's still where they're putting all their chips right now.

And so I think that's interesting, but it's also wait and see because these phones are designed specifically for Apple intelligence, okay interesting but it's also wait and see because these phones are designed specifically for apple intelligence okay but it's not here yet we're all still waiting for it to it to arrive and it's going to take time for it to roll out um you know years really before it it entirely rolls out so the jury's still out on that so it's a weird time right it's just it's a weird time. We've never had before, like, essentially, new iPhone comes

out, but the newest version of iOS is, like, months away. Where, like, most of what is in iOS 18 is Apple Intelligence. Right? Like, if you look at the overall feature set of, like, what are the biggest feature set, like,

feature jumps that they're making, it's that. And so, like like the new iphone comes and it's going to get some new stuff sure but then the biggest features in the ios 18 cycle from apple's perspective at least we don't even we don't know when they're coming but like we're going to get a drip free to them over the next six months or whatever it's just like an interesting time to be in. I completely agree with you. It's like a very peculiar thing. We built these phones from the ground up for these new features, and none of them are there on the day they go on sale.

Really weird. Yeah. I mean, maybe as soon as 10 days, 11 days later, we don't know. A few weeks later, but not on the day they go on sale, for sure. All right. Next week is the show's 10th anniversary. So go to upgradefeedback.com. Send us in your thoughts.

We're obviously going to spend some time on next week's episode reflecting on the show and reflecting on 10 years of upgrade and 10 years of six colors because they go hand in hand together so send us in your ask upgrade questions related to that your follow-up your feedback if you have things you want to hear us talk about when reflecting on a decade of this show and a decade of Six Colors, because those two things will be forever linked. But also send in your Ask Upgrade questions for everything related to the event. I'm sure we'll be spending a bit more time talking about that next week. I'll be in Memphis getting ready for the podcast-a-thon. We'll have more to talk about with that next week too. Please go to stjude.org slash Relay where you can find out more about that

and how you can donate and learn more about fundraising for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. We really appreciate it. If you give, whatever you can give. If you want to check out Jason's work, go to sixcolors.com. You can hear his podcast at theincomparable.com and here on Relay where you can listen to me too. And check out my work at cortexbrand.com. You can hear his podcast at TheIncomparable.com and here on Relay where you can listen to me too

and check out my work at CortexBrand.com You can find us online. Jason is at Jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L I am at iMike, I-M-Y-K-E You can watch clips of this show on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. We are at Upgrade Relay Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade

Plus. You can get a longer ad-free version of the show each and every week. Go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up. Thank you to our sponsors for this week's episode. That is Backblaze, Delete Me, and Ooni Pizza Ovens. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

Goodbye, Mike Hurley.