Upgrade - 581: A Very Dented Can

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

From Relay, this is Upgrade, episode 5801 for September 15th, 2025. Today's show is brought to you by nexos.ai, open case, delete me, and factor. My name is Mike Hurley, and I have the pleasure of being joined in the same country, on the same continent, for Mr. Jason Snell. Hello, Mike Hurley. Our imbalance of you being in the evening and me being in the morning is gone. We are mourning people now as we record this. You can listen to it, of course, as podcast listeners know, you can listen to this at any time, day or night. Correct.

But we, it's a morning thing today. But know that we're early. I asked you to wake up early. We used to be day and night, basically, but now we are a day. barely for me but yes great great great great I have a snow talk question for you Jason it comes from Will who wants to know

often when a new Apple event comes around I end up watching some old events to both get in the mood and watch some iconic announcements like the 2007 iPhone announcement do you ever watch old events at any time during the year? Unless I am working on a story that

requires me to reference an old event so like when I did 20 Macs for 2020 I watched a bunch of old events or at least parts of them. But otherwise, no. I was, first off,

for most of them, I was there for the live events. Do you ever think about your memory that you get like the little memory thing and you're like pulling at your memories? Yeah, I'm thinking about my memory. That's sometimes,

sometimes I am thinking about my, the funny thing is that, of course, I don't remember any of the, I remember what I covered. And so I don't remember any of the stagecraft or anything other than very, you know,

little bits and pieces. of notable moments Steve Jobs throwing a digital camera into the crowd. Steve Jobs telling everybody to turn off their Wi-Fi devices, stuff like that. But mostly I'm thinking about the stuff that happened thereafter, which is covering all those products. So I will go back and consult for that. It's funny, the things you remember as an attendee end up being very different than the things you remember as a person just watching the events. So Stephen Hackett will do this where he'll be like, oh, and there's this thing when they announce this thing. And my response will be, oh, I had a good seat for that one.

or at a bad seat for that one, or this person was with me, or that was in this particular venue and afterward we did this, right? And it's so much of it is about attending the event and not the content of the event as a memory for me. So, which is true then that if I need to go back, I'm going to go back and consult the ancient texts, but I don't do that very often. Yeah, I'm the same. Like, I would watch them only if I was working on something.

Like, I don't really find myself, like, reminiscing in that way. No. Because also, it's like, whenever there is a time to reminisce, people are posting about it. Anyway, you know what I mean? Like, if there's, like, an anniversary, like, it's very kind of in your face these days. Indeed. Probably because of Stephen's calendar, like, series is why everybody knows all the dates even more acutely than ever. Could be.

the man did it. He did the thing. Yeah, he did it. Now they're available to all of us forever and ever and ever. It is September. There is a reason that I am in Memphis. Oh, let me actually thank Will for sending in that question. You can go to upgrade feedback.com

and send in a cell talk question of your own. But yes, it is September. September is Chartered Cancer Awareness Month, but also in September, it's time for the podcastathon. And this is because of Chartered Cancer Awareness Month. Of course, because you're raising money for the kids of St. Jude. this podcastathon will be the best ever

with more great hosts and antics than ever I am in Memphis, Jason Sony's way to Memphis we have Casey and Kathy and Brad and obviously Stephen as well mark your calendars it's going to be this Friday that is September the 19th it's going to be broadcasting

from 12 noon Eastern US Eastern time for 12 hours on the Relay YouTube channel there is a link in the show notes where you can go and set a reminder for yourself it's going to be a great time we've got so much fun stuff planned. We're going to spend the entire day and evening having fun,

celebrating St. Jude and asking for your donations. The reason that we ask for your donations is because of the incredible work that St. Jude does. St. Jude has produced some of the world's most highly cited scientists. So in November 2024, 11 St. Jude researchers were named to the annual list of highly cited researchers recognizing their international impact in science. These researchers authored multiple scientific papers ranking in the top 1% by certations for their field. So it's just showing how the work that is used at St. Jude is used so widely and so broadly. People are taking the work that is done at St. Jude that shares so freely, and they're using it for their own research.

Citations refer to how often a published research paper is included as a reference by other investigators in their work. So it's a measure of its reach and influence. Being on this list indicates the deep value of research by St. Jude for science. scientists worldwide seeking to raise survival rates for children. So we want to invite you to participate once again. Go to St.U.org slash Relay to make your donation today. You can set up a fundraiser of your own there. They've got all the information there and see some awesome incentives that are available to donors this year.

They're all themed around a lot of the stuff that we're doing thematically at the podcastathon. So that's going to be fun for everyone. You can also learn on this page, St. Jude.org slash Relay, how to give of a donor-advised fund or check to see if your employer will match your donation. And don't forget, the podcastathon will be on Friday, September 19th on the Relay YouTube channel starting at 12 p.m. Eastern. Help give them more tomorrow's. Go to St. Jude.org slash Relay to donate or start your own fundraiser today. So it's been a, I feel like a long week, Jason, since we last spoke. And a lot has changed.

This is usual. Yeah, and yeah, it's only been six days. Oh, yeah. So even less days than usual. that's funny um but what usually happens is we know a bunch of things we say a bunch of things right and then we end up why do we right we say a bunch uh we and then we end up like finding out a bunch of stuff over the intervening days right about details things that we thought things that are wrong that kind of stuff and i have a whole list of these for you little bits and bobs. Some stuff we can just rattle off some stuff we can go through. Something that I thought was really fun. IOS 26 will let you match your MagSafe case color to your app icon tint on your home screen. So finally a use for the fact that the

phone knows what cases on. Because they've had that animation for years, right? You put a case on and like the little animation ring comes up and it's the color of your case. But that was the end of it. But now you can actually tint your icons that way. Yeah, I can confirm this. I tested this out with a purple MagSafe case and it worked. Excellent. The new MagSafe battery is only compatible with the iPhone air, and this is because of its shape. It's not like special MagSafe.

It goes all the way, like top to, from the bottom of this phone to underneath of the camera bar. So it's not going to fit on other phones. It will charge them if you maybe hold it horizontally. And I've got a link in the show notes. Federi Covetici did this. He got the MagSafe thing, and he put the battery on horizontally on his own current phone and it will work.

So it will charge, but it is not really a product that is usable for other devices. I guess this is a thing of they're just making the product that needs to be made here, right? Which is, and the best thing to do is to make it go full length on that phone because you can get the most battery in, right? Yeah, it's unfortunate that they didn't think about being compatible with other things. but that wasn't obviously the goal of this product was not to be compatible with other things. The goal of this product was to make a battery for their iPhone that has less battery

so that you could have a battery pack on it if you needed it. And so, you know, but it is very funny that it turned it sideways. That was the question, right? It's like, can you use it sideways? Stephen Robles did a video where he did this too, and it was an excellent video and made me laugh a lot that it's like the cruciform

so just do that walk around with your case sideways and it'll work I'll put the link of that in the show notes too the first benchmarks of the A19 Pro have appeared online I've got a link from Mac Rumors it's 13 to 15% faster

or multi-core CPU and the six core GPU is 40% faster than the six core GPU of the A18 Pro you're a bit more in tune with benchmarks than me like a lot of this stuff honestly kind of just like goes over my head

but you're a bit more aware of it because you do them do you have any kind of thought on this at all is this what you expected not what you expected Apple's been doing a lot of incremental updates

to you know every step that they make forward in the A series and the M series you get a you've been getting I don't know 15 20 10 15 20

somewhere in there seems like that the cores go up every generation in terms of speed and then they tweak how many cores there are and what kind of cores there are and for the CPUs and for the GPUs. So I think that that is in line with what we would probably expect

that they have they keep progressing. This is just what they do and if they say they're just a little bit you know, they're a little bit faster. That's generally what they are. Most people are not going from, you know, from 18 to A19. They're going, you know, from 17 or 16 or whatever. So they'll see much more of a leap, but that's because they keep rolling forward, you know, 15% every year. So I think this is in line with that. Okay. Okay. Does this mean anything yet for the future Mac chips? Probably, I mean, these are going to be the same cores. We'll see how many cores. That's

always the question is like how many but like these are probably the same cores as the m5 uh that's generally how it works and so you would see the same kind of performance um from you know per CPU but they they vary it so it's hard to tell uh but you know this sounds in line with everything they're doing so i would imagine that the m series would be like that they've been they've surprised us before but i would imagine that it's like that okay you do not need a new apple watch to get sleep score. So it works with older watches and any other way that you get sleep tracking data into health. So if your sleep tracking, it's just based on when you put your phone down, or if you use another device, it all goes into the sleep section of the health app. And that equates your

sleep score. So it's not tied to Apple watches or any specific Apple watch. The sleep score will be calculated no matter how that information is pulled into health. And the Series 9 and Ultra to also get hypertension detection. So I feel like in the intervening week, the Series 11 has just seemed like a less and less attractive watch. Like it doesn't, it just feels like, you know, I guess unless you really care about 5G, I don't know how much there is for you in that product, to be honest.

Maybe I'm missing something. I don't know. Apple Watch has got a long product cycle and they know it. And so it's a new model year is what it feels like. If you bought the Series 10, there's literally no reason to get the Series 11. Like, and that's just, you know, there are little tweaks here and there, but like the fact that the sleep score goes back to like the series six or something and then, you know, series eight, what, nine and ten and ultra two all get the hypertension detection. So that, that, I mean, it's a very slow role with the Apple Watch. That's just how it is. Yeah. Yeah. But it's good, though, if you do have that, those watches that it does it. And it's good because it's like there doesn't really seem to be anything specific to hardware.

that is meaning that the hypertension detection will work on one watch over another. So I like that they did that. I think that's really cool. Greg Joswiak threw an iPhone air across the room to Lance Yulanov from TechRadar who dropped it onto a table and then succeeded in a bend test. It did not bend. This is part of a YouTube video and an interview that was on Tom's guide. I'm going to put a link in the show notes that should be timestamped.

it is worth watching everything that occurs in this one minute span. It's truly bananas. Like much respect to Jaws who felt the confidence to throw the phone and then to have it be bent, like to attempt, you know, they'd like, try and bend it, try and bend it, because that's the conversation they're having. Because this is Apple really have to get out ahead of this, right? That they believe this phone will not bend. Everybody thinks this phone's going to bend.

There are going to be so many bend tests when this product goes on sale this week. so I like that they went and did it. It is just made extra fun by the fact that Lance You laugh absolutely fails to catch this phone and is so horrifically embarrassed by it. It's brilliant. It's like cinema. The seconds are so good.

Have you seen it, Jason? Yeah. I mean, clearly they already said, they already knew what they were going to do. They're like, we'll be happy to let people try to bend this thing and it doesn't matter if it drops. And like it worked perfectly for them

and they're set up. and, you know, it succeeded in creating essentially a viral moment, which is, hey, you two middle-aged tech reviewers try to bend this thing and they try and they try and they can't do it. And I kept waiting for the moment where they succeeded and it's like, aha, I got you Apple and it didn't happen. And yeah, that's, that was, I think, probably all part of the plan, but it's a good viral moment for them. Yeah, it definitely succeeded. The iPhone Pro is back to a similar weight as the stainless steel iPhone 14 Pro. So I've been really thinking about this a lot and I did some digging through some old stats.

The 14 Pro, which was the last stainless steel, was 206 grams. And the 17 Pro is 204 grams. So since the weight dropped down with titanium, it's been creeping up year over year. For other reasons, I'm sure, right? Battery, camera, whatever. And also someone mentioned to me, you know, I forgot about it. The phone's got a little bit bigger one year to make the screens a little bit bigger. I think that might have been the 15.

I don't remember which year it was. But I don't know. It's a shame that it has gotten heavier because that 15 Pro was one of my favorite iPhones because it just was such a weight reduction. And I'm very keen to see what the 17 Pro feels like. Now it's back over 200 grams again. And like, do I notice it? And what is that?

What is going on there? you know yeah chunky again but um yeah we'll see i mean i i think there's a prevailing theory that the iPhone air has allowed the iPhone pro to get bigger because it's like if you want a smaller phone get the get the light phone we got a light phone for you that is a good point uh and i can see the argument there but you know it's also if you want those pro features you have to deal with that weight yeah that is a good point it's like they're just like oh you care about thinness and lightness well oh boy do we do we have the phone for you it's right o me Yeah, we got it. Come and see it. So that makes sense. That makes sense.

The iPhone 14 and 15, they're getting another free year of satellite service, so they just keep pushing this. It genuinely feels like at this point, I know you, I think you mentioned it on the last episode, they just don't seem to really have an end plan for what they're doing about this satellite service stuff, because it just, everyone just keeps getting free service and they keep expanding it and extending it for people as it's coming up for renewal. It was weird, right? Yeah. They keep kicking the can down the road. The can is very dented now, but it continues to be kicked down the road.

And, you know, we'll see where it goes. But the, you know, they don't, fundamentally they don't want, they don't want people to die because they didn't have satellite SOS, right? They're not going to do that. So they get, but they are, they're basically noncommittal on whether this is a service or not. I think they maybe even haven't decided how they want to do it, do what they want to charge for. I think getting the texting and the find my location kind of optional non-emergency features in line here is setting up for a, you know, a scenario where you do have to pay something. Although given that some of these features, as we discovered with the Ultra 3, require cell service, right, beyond. sOS and there's we we had a lot of feedback that said the same thing which i think is the perfectly

logical thing which is you have to have cell service because sending a text via satellite is a fallback from sending it from your cell uh device and if you if you could do it for free on the ultra three you couldn't you could just text all the time using um plus that it ties to your phone number and stuff like that there are lots of reasons why but they don't it's supposed to be a fallback emergency however um that leads to the question of like in the end is this a feature that you'll pay for through your satellite or your cell provider? You know, your cell provider will offer you this as part of it. And it's like, who's going to pay for it?

Is Apple going to pay for it? Is your provider going to pay for it? Are you going to pay for it? Because those, you know, those Global Star satellites aren't, aren't cheap. But also by limiting how often they're used, you limit the number of Global Star satellites. You have to keep putting up there. So, you know, but I was surprised. I thought this year they had an opportunity to finally not.

kick the can down the road regarding texting and they they kick the can down the road so can I hope it's a recyclable can well it doesn't they don't need to recycle it because they just keep kicking it so like they're still using it's being reused you know it's the first of the three rs they're reusing that can by kicking the can rather than recycling the can it's a very dented can now though very dented can the iPhone air has been delayed in china apparently there are regulatory issues of the e-sim-only version. So it had, like all the other phones, originally planned to launch on the 19th, but now on the Chinese Apple website says release information to be updated later. Apple had said, I think even in the keynote, that they were working

exclusively with China Unicom, but now their websites say, and I think Apple has said, that they will also be working with the two other state-owned networks, China Mobile and China Telecom. I don't know what's going on here, but it seems like Apple giving preference maybe to one of the three networks wasn't deemed to be acceptable. I think there's a joke about communism in there somewhere. I think I'll let you find it on your own. But it's weird that they're all three state-owned networks. I don't understand this. I don't know how we could get to the point where the phone's about to go on launch and then they're like, oh, no, wait, actually, don't worry about it. Let's not do that. Weird. I think somebody in China said it's fine. You can do

an e-sym phone will make it happen and then like one of the carriers made it happen and the others are like we're not making it happen and then somebody in China said you're making it happen and now they're making it happen that's yes it's insert your own joke

about state-owned three state-owned telecom companies here and the AirPods Pro 3 reviews came out this morning I kind of checked a few of them I'll put them in the show notes essentially this looks like an incredible product

like people are overwhelmingly glowing about it that the noise cancellation is even better as we as Apple said it was the sound quality is great the fit is great people seem to really be digging these I'm very excited for my flight home because I will have AirPods Pro 3 when I fly home to London and I'm excited

because I have I brought me my AirPods Macs which are they are dying now Jason they are actually dying there were certain points in my flight where the right ear would just go for a second, it's not right. It shouldn't be doing that.

I don't know why it's doing that. It felt like it was related to the microphone, but I don't know why it would do that. But the AirPods Max, the noise cancelling, obviously are so much better than the AirPods Pro still because they cover your ears, right? And so like there was on the, on the lot, because I did two flights,

on the long flight I wore Max and on the short flight I wore my pros and I had to put the pros up way louder and I could still hear more of the engine noise. I'm really excited to see how does the Pro 3 compare to the Macs for me because I would honestly like to never use these headphones ever again but they're helpful because I'm also wearing them right now

when we record so I bring them because I use them for both but what I would like to be able to do is just pack a regular pair of headphones in my check-in, luggage and then she's my iPods pro all the time and my hope is that we're getting there but I'm excited about these people are like and like mkbhd was like I wasn't even going to review these I've got too much going on but I like them so much I'm making a review about them and I felt like that was a that just that on its own was a big like thumbs up where it's like I've got

so many phones to review right now but these things are so good here's the 12 minute video about it so yeah really good really good that's pretty great yeah I'm looking forward to hearing them myself. And finally, the studio, one big at the Emmys, 13 Emmys for the studio. This is a quote from Apple's Fresh Release, the most winning series overall this year and the most winning freshman comedy in history. This felt like a foregone conclusion to us. I think that the studio would do well.

Like it's not only is it good, it's about Hollywood, which is just like that really helps. But they won like all the big awards for comedy I think basically. Pretty much. Pretty close. Yeah. And Severance took eight awards. They did not get the best drama. I think I went to the pit

which we still love to have an easy way to watch that show will be great. Yeah, great. Great show. But Britt Brit Lauer and Tremel Tillman both won for supporting actors for Severance which is great. Good job. Felt bad for Adam Scott. But I haven't seen the pit, so I can't, I can't rank it. It's great. It is great. I have seen, I think, all the shows that were in the best actor category there. And those are the two that I said, it's like either one of those guys would be the right choice there.

And no Wiley, having been on ER for a billion years, and then coming back and then doing this show, having him, I think that was, you could see the storyline building there of the pit. And it's also legitimately a great show. I saw a fun thing that a company. that makes hospital scrubs made his tuxedo yeah yeah you know and they were an advertiser there was a scrubs a scrubs making company did an ad on the broadcast about it was probably the same one honoring figs or something like that yeah yeah figs and they and they did it was like honoring the healthcare workers but it was also yeah connected to the pit and i will say also um regarding the studio there was a great acceptance speech where uh they said um the student um the student

is a TV show about executives. So let's thank the executives. And they're like Zach and Jamie and, you know, so the Apple executives were at the very top there. And then after about a sentence, it's, oh, and Tim, Tim Cook, Tim is here tonight. And they showed Tim Cook in the audience sitting next to Eddie Q. But there was like, again, it was basically,

let's thank the executives because this show is making fun of all of them. Also, the Tim Cook thing, that is, I guess, a direct call to the, to the episode, right? To the episode, because it's the Golden Globes, it's the, it's Netflix. Yeah. And it's the Netflix guy instead of Tim Cook. And so here they're like, oh,

Tim Cook, and he's out there. And so they did that. I saw some clips of Nate Bagazzi too. Oh, I love Nate Baguette. I think he's hilarious. It seemed like he did a really good job. It seemed like he, his comedy, while it's absolutely not Hollywood style,

right, it's very slow and like, like folksy and funny but it seemed like it did really well you had that like whole thing of the length of the speeches was taking money away from a donation to a charity I was like oh that was really funny like I really like

that was a good framing for the show it was a good bit and like inevitably they ended up in the negative and he and then he announced that they were the you know everybody was donating money and it was going to be right like it was a comedy bit but it was a very good one though I think

because it gave us some good reaction faces that people were like, oh, no. Like, very funny. Very funny. I liked it. This episode is brought to you by nexos.aI. Nexus.AI is an all-in-one secure AI platform for enterprises. It helps organizations effectively adopt and scale AI

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to innovation, faster, smarter but without losing control. Prevent confidential data leaks create custom reusable AI assistance for repetitive tasks and help your team save time and work more efficiently on a secure unified platform for enterprise. Go now to nexos.a.aise slash upgrade to get a 14 day free trial. That is nexos.a.ai slash upgrade to try it for free for 14 days. A thanks to nexos.a.i for their support of this show and all of Relay. so jason today is the 26 operating systems release day as we're recording this yep happy 26 barring any disaster all of the operating systems will go out today and you've been writing reviews um i want to

kind of dig into some of the reviews that you've written and we can also talk a little bit more about the operating systems in general um but let's start with the one that i think is the closest to your heart, and I expect you spent the most time on, which is a MacOS 26 review. Yeah. What is your... How are you feeling about MacOS 26? I got, when reading your review, I felt a lot of conflict, I think, from you about how you're feeling about what you...

How if you're putting your head, your mind into Apple's mind, how they are thinking about and approaching MacOS 26 Tahoe. Well, I think at its core, the challenge here is that app that macOS 26 in a lot of ways has got the most kind of productivity features uh that they've done in a macOS release in a long time and i know we've been talking about that all summer and there are some really great features in there but it's also the liquid glass update and so they you know and you have to deal with this design that is different and that it's they changed a bunch of stuff they changed a bunch of icons the you know the menus look different there

stuff like there's just a bunch of different stuff from a design standpoint that's imported from their other platforms with this liquid glass design um and so it it's I've heard from a lot of people over the summer they're like oh I'm just not going to update if it changes the design and I understand that on one level on another level though it's like but there's a reason like every year people say to me oh I don't really have a reason to update I'm not going to update and this year I feel like there are a lot of good reasons to update this is really they did a lot of features that are very nice that I wish they had been doing for a while, and they did them this time. But then the design is there. And so what I have to say practically, just purely

from a tool-using perspective, is I don't think the design changes change the usability of the operating system. I think basically it is the same. It's a new coat of paint. There are a few apps where the behavior is a little different and it's a little weird. But it's usable. and in most places it's perfectly fine usable. It's not, I think that a very technical user base on social media, especially full of developers who are struggling with the bugs introduced and the, and like it's hard to write apps for this for liquid glass, right? It's very clear from everybody we know who's a developer that not that like what they

showed in the videos isn't what they're shipping. what their shipping is inconsistent, some of the tools to build what they're shipping, to make it look like what Apple's apps look like, the tools don't really work right. So you have to do workarounds. Like it's hard. But like that technical perspective doesn't necessarily reflect to users.

And, you know, some of it may come through to users. Some of it doesn't. So we should all, you know, feel for our friends who are software developers because they've had a hard summer and it will continue to be hard for them because of this. But as a user, I think it can be overest.

And on the Mac, it can very much be overstated because the Mac is much more gently brought into liquid glass, I think, than the iPad of the iPhone, for example. And which led me to this moment of realizing that I have these two feelings. One is, well, let me phrase it as a question. What's more offensive to me as a Mac user, that Apple didn't care enough to implement import liquid glass fully and properly and come up with a whole way

like how does liquid glass reflect on the Mac like how does that work that they didn't I mean this was their opportunity to align all their operating systems right we've said this all along but it feels like kind of an afterthought on the Mac like there's stuff

there but also they didn't it doesn't feel like they went all the way with it so does that does that bother me or does, do I feel relieved that because they didn't give the Mac enough attention and they didn't prioritize it, that the Mac kind of gets away, gets off easy with minor changes that don't really change how the Mac works so that you could update and get the new features. And it's just, I've been using it all summer pretty much on my main Mac for the whole summer. And it just, it works fine.

it's not really any different. It just looks a little bit different. And I mean, I think my answer is yes. I think I am simultaneously relieved that they didn't go further with this and kind of mess up the Mac experience. But I'm also unhappy by, you know, with the fact that they didn't prioritize the Mac. They clearly sort of did a halfway job on the Mac for Liquid Glass, which, you know, which fair enough because I think Liquid Glass is a metaphor.

And I did not write an iOS review. Dan Moore wrote an iOS review. but on on the it starts at iOS and then like expands a little to fit iPad screens and then it gets translated to Apple's other devices so by the time you get to the non slab of glass non-touchscreen platform on the Mac the metaphor is starting to break apart and rather than sort of rethink it they just sort of like did a little to provide a family resemblance and and I don't you know, I don't like what it says about where the Mac is in the priority list, but I think it's probably the right decision, right?

It's just like the Mac doesn't need to become something like that, and it's better off if it doesn't. And so it didn't. It really just sort of gets this base level of, oh, yeah, there's gestures and references to what your iPhone looks like. Because, you know, a lot of what they're trying to do is make the Mac comfortable for iPhone users because, you know, there's a huge influx of users who are buying Macs because they like the iPhone, and that's been the case for a decade, and they want to make that family resemblance cross-over.

But, like, if they did too much, I think it would just make it worse and worse and worse. And so maybe it's better that they didn't go that far. Yeah, I imagine that there was a version of Tahoe that looked much more extreme than the ones that shipped. That's how I imagine this may have gone, that there was a version that had more liquid glass, more of that and they maybe if at least i can imagine it may have gone this way and they scaled it back they're like okay this is not the right way to do this now it does go back to what you've been saying from before we saw liquid glass to now what you just said a minute ago which i absolutely agree with which was then maybe you shouldn't have done it like you really should have tried to

come up with something that was new and different and worked consistently everywhere where our quote unquote consistency across platforms now is there's a little bit of this design aesthetic here and there depending on the platform that you're using with iOS at the top of the pyramid and it goes down to kind of like probably Mac at the bottom maybe watch above or TV at the bottom maybe even like there's little bits of liquid glass and everything but from what you've written about what I've seen I've not used Tahoe yet but what I've seen is it really is just a there is a family resemblance it's like like, oh, this is like the half-brother.

And it kind of looks like one of the parents, but like not completely. Yeah, I think that's right. I would like to believe that there was a lot of thought put into liquid glass on the Mac and that they decided that they didn't want to push it too far because the metaphor broke down. Yeah. My gut feeling is that they bet off more they could chew with iOS. And the Mac was sort of low priority, get it, the minimum. required to say that it's liquid glass.

And so that's what they did. You know, I hope, I hope it's that they actually put a lot of effort in and decided this was the right approach. I fear that it was not, that it was more like, we got other problems here. Let's just ship this like, like it is. And, and again, I think that, I think for Mac users, you actually kind of get off easy is what I'm saying. Like, it is, there are certain apps, the cross-platform apps, especially, where you see it a

lot, you know, in photos, in music, in, you know, the journal app and stuff like that. There are places where you're like, oh, yeah, that's a big liquid glass button. But the fact is a lot of Mac for Mac only software doesn't have a lot of the same conventions that those apps do. And so they don't look particularly different. And, and, you know, this is, I did a rant in my public beta version about toolbars, but it was like a good example of, like, Mac toolbars being kind of different from ios toolbars and that the way that that liquid glass gets put out like on the mac and

the finder it they shipped it the way that they had it all summer which is like there are these toolbars that it just looks like a kind of a uh in light mode it's like a gray uh blob with a drop shadow on top of another kind of whitish gray blob behind it and it it's kind of pointless it actually looks a lot better in dark mode because in dark mode they have kind of the the glass elements to it. In light mode, it just looks dumb. But that's just how it is. And I mostly use light modes. It does look better in dark mode. Yeah, I don't use dark mode on the Mac. I use dark mode everywhere else. But it does for some reason never look right to me on the Mac. But I'll try it out with Tahoe. Glass is see-through. That's one of the qualities of glass. We've all

learned this year. The menu bar is now completely transparent by default. I know, and I would believe this to be the case, but I know it's the case. This is this initially upset a lot of the Mac faithful, the diehard. Because any change to the menu bar is always a nightmare. But you seem fine with it and actually are pretty bullish on the menu bar as a new refreshed concept as of 26. Right, right. Well, so I've used my menu bar in transparent for the whole summer and it's fine. It does create weird moments where you.

there's like a little force field at the top and you can't put things up there even though you can see through it to the rest of it, which is a little bit weird. Also, they put in a checkbox in a later beta. There's a checkbox that literally says

show the menu bar where it puts a translucent bar back there. But it's fine without. I've been using it without and it doesn't bother me and I'll probably leave it there. It's fine. It just, it doesn't bother me.

I think that they've handled, at least in all the wallpapers I use, everything in the menu bar is readable. I think, and this comes back to some, thing where I think if you are not using Tahoe and you're looking at the discourse online about Tahoe, you can get scared about Tahoe for reasons that are not necessarily representative because I've been trying to use my Mac, just how I use my Mac. And I haven't had any readability problems

in the menu bar. And again, there's a checkbox if you want to put a whole stripe up there and not have it be transparent. But I haven't, without that checked, I have not had any usability problems, readability issues. But if you're looking at the discourse online, you're seeing all these horrible screenshots about it. And I'll just say, it's easy to make a horrible screenshot. Like liquid glass, it's harder than it was at the beginning. At the beginning, it was so easy.

But it's harder now to get it. But like, if you want to make a wallpaper designed to create illegibility in the menu bar, you can do it. And so if you find your worst case scenario and take a screenshot and say, I can't believe the legibility of the menu bar in Tahoe, you can do that and convince people that it's like that. And I'm not saying that that's not a real thing. I'm saying that in my experience using my Mac every day for three months,

I have had zero legibility problems with the wallpapers that I use. And I mean, maybe your mileage may vary, but I'm just saying you might be surprised. And if you do have an issue, just check the box. And then you get the little stripe back. But the good news is, on the other hand, Apple is like trying to figure out what the Mac menu bar should be going forward.

And I think it's a really encouraging sign that especially given that their laptops have notches in them, that eat up menu bar space. Through history, the Mac has had all of these menu bar items, right? little icons that live up in the menu bar. I had a load of them. And then there are utilities like a bartender, and there are others that let you manage them

and create hidden areas or submenus and all that. And just taking it back a couple of years, Apple introduced Control Center on the Mac, right? And when it originally started, it was like, oh, what are they even trying to do here? Like, this is a metaphor from iOS. Why are they bringing it over to the Mac? They put some basic controls in it.

It turns out, though, that where they're going with this is they think control center is the future of the menu bar which can sound offensive because it can sound to a long time Mac user like what you're saying is we're not going to have menu bar stuff anymore we're just going to have control center in the menu bar and also

nothing more complicated than a simple toggle right is that you could imagine right like oh all you can do now is just turn things on and off and maybe have a slider you can't have like ice that menu so I can imagine people might think about it when they hear that statement so Apple is headed and there

And they're not all the way there yet, but they're headed in the direction where I think they're providing a vision for what the menu bar is going to be like using Control Center and introducing the concept for the first time on macOS, I believe, of third-party controls using the Controls API. The idea here is that third-party apps can now write controls that can be placed in Control Center or on the menu bar, because anything that's in Control Center can also be on the menu bar. You choose so you can have it in essentially. what they're creating is a framework where you can put things up in the menu bar or in a drop-down menu off of the menu bar. And they can be from Apple or they can be from your third-party apps. And it's not just one. That's another thing that's really interesting about this. It's you can make multiple drop-downs in Tahoe. You can say, I want a media drop-down with a little note on it. And in there is the now playing and the airplay and the volume and

stuff like that and I can just put that all there and and that's what I'm going to use for that part and then I'm going to make this other drop down with other stuff in it and then this one I want on the menu bar and again could you do that can you organize stuff like that with third party utilities I mean this is always the story here you can but I really am a believer in the idea that Apple should provide a bunch of stuff out of the box and the more they provide out of the box the better I don't think I don't mean they certainly haven't deprecated the existing menu extras system now, but in the long run, maybe it'll go away. Maybe it won't. But in the meantime, what Apple's doing, while that stuff is still perfectly fine, is it's building

a new system using the controls API. And like, they didn't have to do any of this. But they're actually, and this is a great example of them taking like, instead of just importing control center from iOS and leaving it there, they're like, wait a second. What if this is the way we build a way for people who put status up in their menu bar if they want in a way that we can provide and that's standard. And that's what they're doing. So it's early days. There are not very many third party apps that even support this yet, which is fine. But like in the long run, I think a lot of apps will because I think this is the future of that. You've absolutely sold me that when I install Tahoe, I'm going to switch from Raycast to Spotlight. Like, you speak so effusively about

Spotlight and all of its functionality, I do actually think I will be able to do basically everything I need using Spotlight. I'm not a, I'm not a serious user of any of these launching apps. Like I really am just using them to either launch things or search for things. I'm not like setting off a bunch of commands. I'm not plugging into third-party services or anything like that. But it feels like not only would I have. everything I would need from Spotlight, that also the ways in which I could expand it are ways

in which I'm already doing things like shortcuts and stuff like that. So if I did want to dig into it a bit more, I would have that available to me. Like it seems like you're, you seem to be very excited about this feature and what they've done. Yeah, I mean, Spotlight's been around for 20 years and Apple has slowly progressed it over time. And when it started, it really was slow and not very good. And I've been using LaunchBarr for, you know, a couple of decades because it's so fast. And it does what I want, which is mostly launching apps and doing some other stuff, calculations and, you know, clipboard history and all of those things. And there, look, as with anything, there will always be third party apps that that will fulfill edge cases that power users want

that Apple is not going to ever fulfill. That's the beauty of, that's why Sherlocking isn't really a thing because the third-party apps exist sort of to replace Apple features with things that are nerdyer or very specific in some ways. And it turns out that's not really how I use my launcher either. And that's not how I've ever really used launch bar. I spent the whole summer.

The goal was, I'll put it this way, the goal was how long can I last using only Spotlight because it's gotten so much better over the years and that this is a huge update. It's the biggest spot. Spotlight update ever. How long can I go without LaunchBarr, which for a couple of decades has been literally

the first thing I install when I have a blank Mac, I install LaunchBarr. And I never went back. I never went back. I have not used LaunchBarr in three months because it does almost everything that I need out of LaunchBar in Spotlight. And again, it's one of those things where, like, I can use a third-party app if I want too, but I really, really like the functionality that is built into the core OS that you don't have to add anything on. You don't have to spend money on another thing if this is good enough for

you. And between it's fast at launching apps. It's got new support for actions, which is this way that shortcuts and app intents get exposed where you can kick off actions. You can even do, you know, perform at input and then pass it on. And then it runs the shortcut or whatever um there's unfinished stuff there um website search strikes me as being kind of broken um theoretically you can search common websites like i mdb uh and all i find is like i can do i mdb and search for tom cruise or whatever and all it does is take me to the tom cruise search on imdb which is like what it should be doing is populating the below it should be populating results so i could pick a result. I typed Tom and it offers various toms and I could pick crews, right? And it doesn't

seem to do that. And I thought it was supposed to. So I feel like there's a work in progress going on there where it could be more capable. But they're going in that direction. They added a clipboard manager, which is like a few years ago I did that story, which is like what's left for Apple to do in terms of macOS features because they've added so many over the years that used to require third-party utilities. And clipboard history was the obvious one. And for the first time ever on any Apple platform, they did a clipboard history. It's in Spotlight. And if I have a complaint about it, it's that to invoke it, you have to do CommandSpace, Command 4.

You have to do two keys to get to it. My old launch bar keyboard shortcut was Command Backslash. So I just did a thing in keyboard Maestro where it, if I hit Command Backslash, it goes Command, Space, Command 4. So I just replicated it. They should probably let you set to jump. straight there instead of having to first open spotlight and then. But it works. And it's got limitations, right? And again, if you're somebody who needs a clipboard history that lasts more than eight hours, get a third-party launcher. That's what you should do because Apple has made that

decision to make it not a, you know, endless clipboard history, but to have it be kind of limited time value, I never need to go back longer than that. Ever. I plan to just leave Raycast installed where it has a longer clipboard history. as the foreback, but then just you try and use Spotlight. Yeah. That's like my plan. I just don't have a need for it. So what's missing for me?

I relied on the emoji search in LaunchBar, and I have not found a good, a satisfying replacement. I'm using, I think, Rocket right now, which is an app that lets you, you know, kind of like insert an emoji, but it was so great to be able to do command space and then type the name of an emoji. and hit return and the emoji was inserted

like that was great note to Spotlight do that that would be great weird that they don't have that that seems like an easy win honestly I do agree I think it would be I use it all the time

I use the quick there's a calculator just like there is in launch bar I think that the one in Spotlight's a little quirkier and sometimes it doesn't find my answer fast enough but

in general it's it's pretty great can it do unit conversion I don't, I mean, let's see. Like if I type like $50, like give me it in pounds or something like that. I just type 15C into Spotlight and it said 59 degrees Fahrenheit. Okay, that's our unit, so that'll do. Yeah, okay, cool.

And I just typed 5GbP and it said 680 USD. So that's perfect. So yeah. I would want that. I don't think that's even new. But, I mean, so Spotlight, part of it too is if you're a power user and I, you know, have been on launch bar for 20 years. One of the stories I wanted to tell about Spotlight is just that Spotlight has gotten a lot better over 20 years.

And I do try to use it at the beginning of every OS cycle. And like it keeps getting better. And I think there are a lot of people out there who have been using a Mac for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And they saw Spotlight when it was lesser and they replaced it. And they've never gone back to it. I would just say, maybe it's not for you. But it's so much more capable than it was in the beginning. It's so much faster.

It does so many different things. you may be surprised. But on a larger scale, just to say, look what they did with Tahoe. The Mac has been around for a zillion years at this point, right? More than 40 years. Mac OS 10 for 25 years. What do they do? Like, new menu bar system for controls, new spotlight with action support and with clipboard

manager. And we haven't mentioned, like, because they added automation in shortcuts, you can now do automations based on time like on iOS, but also based on things like a file being changed or something being added to a folder and you can build whole shortcut workflows. I have a bunch of stuff that I used to use Hazel for.

And again, Hazel is a great app. It also costs $50 and you have to know that it exists and install it and all of those things. And maybe if it's just for one little thing that you want to do, you don't need to buy a third party app or two things or three things. I love that it's in there. Even if people will choose to use third party apps,

I like the idea that the base system allows you that capability. And they did that. Across all of these platforms, they added the use model feature and shortcuts, which allows me to access Apple's AI models in my automations. That's a big update. Like, there's a lot of good stuff in macOS Tahoe, I guess is what I'm saying. For a platform that seems kind of old and static a lot of the time, even though we rely on it, they did a lot. I guess what I'm saying is maybe it's the last few years of very mind. updates have made me feel this way. But, and so I'm, I'm, maybe that lowered the bar a little.

But I look at Tahoe and I think, like, they did way more than they needed to. Like, this is, they put in an effort. I guess that's what I'm saying is I'm very happy to see that on macOS, they made an effort to do things that are for macOS. In fact, Mike, my soul left my body, body for a moment, just for a moment, when I realized a feeling I don't think I've ever had before, which was there's a new feature on the Mac that I wish was on iOS.

Not an existing feature, right? Not like a file manager, right? That's a familiar, like, wouldn't it be nice if that was on the iPad? What if there was a menu bar on the iPad? We'll see, we'll find out. But clipboard history? Like, I can't look at clipboard history in spotlight

and not think, please put that on iOS next. Please do that. They built it on the Mac first. And great. Like, I'm so glad that they did. But like, so that's why I'm so bullish, so positive about Tahoe is like, Apple did stuff on the Mac to make it better, like substantial stuff on the Mac to make it better.

And that, um, that is great. And that excites me. I'm really, uh, I'm really happy about it. And I, I think the liquid glass stuff is a distraction. It doesn't really get in the way. I don't love it. But it's also kind of, I don't think it is remotely weight wise, uh, as a, uh, as a lot of, uh, as a lot of as much as the functionality that they've added.

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You kind of alluded to some of the things that are shared and not so. iPadOS 26, I think that the biggest takeaway I got from your review, which is also very similar to my experience, is they really, really made it as close to the Mac as they could about actually just putting Mac OS on this. Like, in so many ways, they're like, this is the Mac OS version of iPad OS, go crazy. Yeah, it's just a switch you flip, and then you're in the multi-window mode, and I think the multi-window mode, I think they nailed it. Like, it works exactly as I thought. I, you know, I've heard from behind the scenes that they spent several years on this project, and it feels like it.

It feels polished. It feels well considered. This is not a thing that they threw out half working in beta one and then spent the summer trying to patch to get it to ship. It was full featured when they launched the beta and it just worked and has continued to work. It is a very high quality concept of, you know, you got little stoplight buttons. You got to resize. You got the way that it works in terms of managing windows and switching between a full screen window and and individual windows is

perfectly reasonable. Like, it feels really good to use it in that mode. And then you flip a switch and control center and then you're in single window mode and people don't have to worry about it. I tried this in the studio display. Really easy to lose track of the fact

that you're not on a Mac. I use it a lot with the magic keyboard, writing these reviews. I like a window with the features of the OS in, you know, and then a tech editor window and then maybe like a messages window and like it it was mac like but i would say not the mac also kind of lighter just felt lighter because it's an ipad but still kind of allowed me to do that and then when i want to go back inside and take it out of the case i flip that switch and we're back

in single window mode and i mostly use it i mean people always ask like i think that there's this assumption that everything I'm doing is with a case, with a keyboard and in multi-window mode. And the fact is the vast majority of the time I spend with my iPad is in single window mode without a keyboard case on it because that's how I like read stuff in the morning in bed. Like it's with just with my iPad. But if I'm writing in the backyard, let's say, then it's in the keyboard case. So it's just, I love that it's a mode you can turn on and off. It solves the problem of, well, what do we do?

because we've got two different kinds of users. We've got power users and we've got the sort of basic iPad users and we don't want to confuse them. But we also want to give power because we're selling an iPad with an M4 in it. So we should probably give those people power. And they just did it. Like they just did it.

This feels so much like a release where we've been saying, why are you not doing the thing that's clearly the thing you should be doing? And I feel like inside Apple, there was like a battle for the soul of the iPad. I feel like inside Apple, people are like, but no, we don't want to do the thing that everybody wants us to do. We want to create a new thing that's different and that's iPad and that is going to be like honoring the fundamental premise of the iPad, but also is powerful, but new and not the Mac, it's different. And like, they're over it.

They just did the thing. And I'm so glad that they did the thing because they needed to do the thing. because they needed to do the thing. Like just make it a productivity metaphor that is as close to the Mac as you can get it but still be the iPad for people who want that and then turn it off for everybody else. And to get to that point,

like technically they could have done it ages ago. I feel like emotionally they had to get to the point where they realized the best metaphor here is not reinventing something in an iPad. They tried it with iPad multitasking, right? That was multitasking iPad style and it was kind of janky

and it worked but it wasn't ideal and like every time they try to move it forward they were moving toward the Mac and at some point a few years ago obviously they decided let's just build that Mac style multitasking for iPad they ship it now. It's really good

and the realization when they announced this and as I started to use it that I had Mike was years, I mean, we're talking about 10 years coming up since the iPad Pro first launched. The context, especially as Apple shipped Apple Silicon on Macs, has been, every review is, the hardware is amazing on the iPad, but the software can't match up.

Every single review. And, you know, I'm not going to say it's over because narratives have taken a long time to die, but I would say, it's over I feel like this weight on the iPad of why is your OS holding you back

and why the hardware is so great but why can't it I feel like they are taking that weight off that you know you still can't install random software it's still using the app store model all those things are still true but like with this

windowing system and a bunch of other little things that they changed in here it feels like they're kind of finally saying okay all right yes it's got an m4 m5 coming up in it and you can use it as a productivity tool and we're not going to stand in your way because it isn't ipaddy enough and and like i'm not saying the narrative will change overnight like i said narratives take a long time to die but it feels to me like we're about to enter an era or new iPad hardware reviews don't spend an entire section saying oh but it can't do all of these things

and it's not a real productivity machine, and I'm ready for that. Yeah, it does feel like now they have taken it to the kind of logical end state of what the iPad could or should be capable with about pushing it further than that, right? Like, it feels now much more like a computer

than iPad OS has ever felt. Yes. And it seems so funny, really because all they did was just make the Windows resizable. Like it's not, they didn't fundamentally change the way iPad OS apps work. Like, we don't have a new app model here. They're the same apps. They're working just as they were, but now you have a renewed

sense of flexibility when using the operating system. Like, I will say iPadOS 26 has absolutely reinvigorated my love of the iPad. Like, I had I had said that the iPad Pro is like my favorite computer when I'm at home, like I use it all the time and loved it. But now I am using my iPad again as a work device in a way that I had stopped for a long time. Like iPad OS 26 encouraged me to buy a magic keyboard again, which I had not had one for years because it's just not what I was using the iPad for. The flexibility of this system, makes it just feel so much more capable. Like, I feel like I am much more able to work the way I want to rather than being pushed to work in a specific way, right? Where it's like, oh, the apps will go to any size that I want them to,

and I have complete control over how that works. I can have what is essentially as many as I want on the display without it being, like, overwhelming. Like, whatever the limit is is further than I would want to go. And for me, the pro move has been to combine stage manager and the new multitasking system because you essentially get small collections of apps that you pair together with each other and you can move between them really easily. I love it.

I absolutely love this system. It's not perfect. Like the green button in the stoplight menu is good to have, but it does not work the way that I would expect it to work. Like, I don't know why I have to press and hold that button to get the other options. Like, just let me hover over it in my mouse and just... Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Like, the ways in which I think this system need to be changed now are tweaks at most.

Oh, yeah. And the underlying content is there, right? Like, what you're saying, like, if you do Globe F, it goes full screen. If you, if you do Globe Shift left arrow, I think it is, it goes half on the left. Like, all of the MacOS tiling gestures that they put in. last year are all in iPadOS so like you can use your keyboard

to just tile all of your windows and so it's it's tweaks right because the feature's actually there it's just like a little bit of an interface nicety yeah I would like some GUI ways to get to some of that multitasking stuff a little bit more like the window management a little bit easier

than what I've got more forward yeah yeah I hear you I would be remiss if I didn't mention I think one of the, as a part of Apple's enthusiasm in running up to this project, I have heard from many people about this. I think Apple threw out split view, slide over, and all their other multitasking stuff, because it was the old stuff that they were trying to do. Remember, like, first there was like slide over and split view and then kind of windowing in a kind of a weird way, and then they tried to make it less weird, and then they threw it all out. And I get why they

threw it all out. They had this new system in the works, and it's great. I think what I've discovered this summer more than anything else is that a huge number of people you slide over on their iPad because they really and they're aghast because it's gone. It's gone.

If you want to do something like that now, you kind of need to just go in a multi-window mode and have like a big window and then a little tiny window that you slide mostly off. It's not the same, right? And so I backed up and I thought, okay, what are they really asking for here? And they're asking for the ability to dock like a little app on the side off screen and swipe in to sort of like bring it in and do a little thing and then swipe it back out.

I think that's a great observation that there's a use case here that Apple threw, you know, they threw out with the bathwater. They were like, get it all away. We got a new thing. And one of the things they threw out is probably a thing they should bring back in some form. The idea that there's a mode where you dock a window like you dock, like, you know, you can take a picture in picture and slide it off screen and there's like a little thing that lives over there that says there's a thing over here and you tap it and it kind of comes back and then you can put it away again I think they need to add that feature to so maybe in a future release they should bring that back because I think

losing slide over is going to um it seems like a reasonable use case that people are taking advantage of that apple thought they didn't need to do because they did multi window and actually I think maybe they do need to do because I think people like the idea of having a a a hidden app window that they can show and hide that lives off screen. Seems like there's a way to solve those people's issues, but I would say I don't think the multi-window support in Mac or an iPad OS26 solves it. So that's a note for Apple iPad people, that that needs to be better.

So if you rely on slideover, you may not want to do this update because you will lose it. I feel like you could do something like, um what is that system called quick note where it just like it's like living down on the bottom as you say and you just tap it like it like a very tiny window or like a picture in picture kind of thing like maybe but also i don't know if that would be too intrusive but yeah i i i took for me i i understand why people want it i do not miss it at all i kind of don't didn't really like that system i just like how easy i could just get to the apps that i want to get to um like i don't

have a system like that on the Mac, right? Like, I don't have like a slideover window on the Mac. So, like, I'm really just taking the way I use my Mac and I'm using my iPad like that. And so it makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, I get it. Well, that's the thing is I don't think slideover is multitasking, right? I don't think that's how it's intended.

I think slide over is a single window iPad feature that lets you have another little app just kind of like hanging off the side for kind of casual like, let me go and do do, boop. and then put it back. I hear the people talking about that, and I think there probably is a use case that Apple should consider there. But, no, I think it's great. And we haven't even talked about, like,

all the other little bits. So, like, I'm using, it's a beta. I hope it's okay for me to talk about it. I think it's obvious that it's coming, is that, you know, Fairwright, which is the podcast editor I use on the iPad, like, obviously they're going to do an update that supports this new,

background activity feature for exports. Logic supports it, right? Final Cut supports it. And this is another one of those things. It was like, on the Mac, the idea that you couldn't leave Final Cut or logic during an export because then it wouldn't export, that you have to stay in that app and you can't go somewhere.

You can't bring forward another app. Can't or it'll break. Like, that hasn't been the case in decades, right? But that was true on the iPad, and now it's not true. So, like, Ferrite, for example, I did a, I had a podcast edit in there, and I exported it. And then I switched to other apps, and there's a little live activity that gets generated that says Fairite is exporting this. And it's like a little live activity up in the Dynamic Island or the fake Dynamic Island.

Well, it's real, but like on the iPad. And then it'll go in the menu bar and there's a little thing that's like, I'm doing a thing in the background. It tells you. And then it's done. And it happened in the background. And, like, again, on the Mac, this is not news, but on the iPad, it is, sadly, news I need to report, which is that, yes, you can do that. Yes, there's a system level thing that will let you record audio and optionally video from your calls like what we're doing here, where we talk to each other, to make a local recording, which was the problem for podcasters and creators, YouTubers, all of that.

anybody who needed to record and wanted to just travel with an iPad, the iPad couldn't do it. Now it can do it in 26. They just put it in there. All that stuff adds up to being that the iPad is not, you know, as capable as a Mac, but is so much more capable than it used to be for people who want it. And again, I would say, because whenever we talk about this use case, people are like, but I don't want to use my iPad that way. Nobody's making you use your iPad that way. These are all features. In fact, it's better now. it's literally a thing that's turned off

because they got rid of slide over and split view it's actually harder to accidentally go into this mode you can't just drag a window over to a corner and break your iPad and that's a win and so it lets the iPad be what you want it to be

which I think is beautiful there's a couple other things on an iPad OS that I wanted to just mention preview I'm happy to have it although I think iPad OS pushes me to preview more keenly than I would want to. Like, if I get a PDF of an email,

ideally I just want to click, quick, click that. I don't want, it opens it in preview every time for me. I'm like, I don't want you to do this. I don't know if I can change that, but it annoys me. Files, it's like, there are improvements to files. It's just still not what I want. Like, it's just nowhere near as reliable feeling as Finder. Like, it constantly feels like I'm fighting against this.

app in ways that are annoying to me. Do you have any thoughts on the files stuff that they've added? I mean, it's better. It's more finder-like. It is, I think it's a big deal that you can double-click on documents with without fear because you can set the default app that over. opens documents now and you can right click and just say open with and choose an app like for me one of the big limitations of files was that it um you didn't know you like you couldn't you couldn't open

a document you couldn't really you could use it to move documents around but you couldn't really trust it to open a document like you could with a finder where you just double click on a thing and it opens and now that's gone so that that's really nice um it i agree it does not feel as kind of like Zippy as the finder is to use, but I think it's just vastly more capable than it was. Yeah. This episode is also brought to you by Delete Me. Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable.

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slash upgrade 20 and the code upgrade 20 are thanks to delete me for their support of this show and relay. Let's touch on iOS 26, like touch on the most important one. But you didn't write a full review about it. Obviously there are many and there will be many, many words published about iOS 26 from our friends online. Do you mind if I just take a quick first stab at this one? I've been talking a lot. Please do.

I am firmly in the camp of liking this redesign. So I think that iOS 26 overall feels new, fresh, and fun. And that was what I was looking for. Like, there are elements like the new lock screen design and the new clock. Just the way the clock looks is fantastic, let alone the fact of how it can move and adapt to the imagery that you have. I just think it looks great. I think that the clear and the revised tinting on the icons is a really

interesting look that I think a lot of people are going to really dig. It adds life to the phone. Like it completely changes the way that your home screen looks. There are some wallpapers that you pair with the clear stuff that just look incredible. Like I've been doing, so today, new version of Widget Smith is out, which I've been working on with David and Stephen. And one of the things that I've been doing is I was producing some videos and some screenshots and stuff like that. And if you have like a really vivid wall, wallpaper and you put it behind those clear icons and widgets, it looks amazing. And I think a lot of people are going to do this. And I think we're going to see lots of people posting their home

screens and making videos about the clear icons specifically. It is not a feature I want from my home screen because I'm just too ingrained to like the colors being where they are and knowing what everything looks like. But I think they have done a very good. good job of making something look good, which should in theory be a very hard thing to do. So the clear widgets or clear icons are an interesting example of clear icons. I think don't look that great. On the Mac, I think they look really bad because they just look dead. On iPad and iPhone, they look okay. But one of the things that I will say is the colored, tinted, icons and widgets, which used to look real bad. I think look really good. I think look really good.

now and the beauty of it is if you've got different lock screens and different wallpapers you can on some you can choose that and that changes the the icon format when you move between them and like I moved to a a wallpaper of New Zealand and it's got the the light blue aqua kind of water that's the powder coming out of the the mountains that have been carved by the glaciers and it makes this kind of unreal blue river. And so you go to edit and you choose tinted and there's a picker, a color picker. And the color picker floats on top of your wallpaper.

And I was able to pick that aqua color, that bluey aqua color of the river that's in that wallpaper and tint my icons. I mean, there's a screenshot of it in my review, but it's like, it actually looks really good. Like, it's not for everything, and it's not for everybody, and I'm not sure I would choose that regularly, but it's really well implemented. And this goes back to the fact that they built a whole new vector-based icon style that allows this kind of layering and effects and coloring. And it looks so much better than the old tinting did. And it's people are going to love it. They are.

Yeah, I think so. It's been really exciting over the last few days to start getting third-party app updates. So even though iOS is coming out today, I've been getting a lot of updates from people. developers because Apple started approving the apps and they just, the new versions just start appearing in the app store for iOS 26. And even with just a few examples, it's been very interesting to see the various ways in which developers are implementing the new iOS 26 and liquid glass design systems into their apps. Like, different apps are taking different approaches for how much glass goes in. And also just there is a general, you know, I think what

gets lost a lot in talking about liquid glass, there's also just a refactoring of where things go and how toolbars operate. A lot of apps are implementing search buttons in the bottom right-hand corner, which wasn't a thing that really existed before. And there is definitely some kind of reshuffling of the deck chairs within the apps that I'm using. And I've actually been enjoying so far the apps that I've been using because it just feels fresh. And I'm confident that this is a step in the right direction in enabling and kind of of forcing developers to rethink how their apps work because there is a new system going on. Like even if they don't go all glassy, you know, like Overcast is an app where, you know,

like Marco was spoken about him taking a somewhat restrained approach to liquid glass, but I really like the tweaks that he has made to Overcast based on iOS 26 and his kind of approach to it. I think it just looks fresh. Like, fantastical is another one that I've been using. And they've not gone overboard, but they've tweaked the design. And so, like, it feels new. And it also feels cohesive with the system, even if they're not going as hard as, say, the music app or something from Apple. So, now, I find it to be encouraging to see these kind of steps that are going on. So I think, I think that's really good. And I've been liking that. A couple of, I just wanted to touch on four

Apple system apps, just like a few things that I've been observing and some feelings that I have. With messages, I am not a fan of custom backgrounds. It is a feature that I've used a little bit and I just don't like it. I've yet to come across a custom background that I like. I find them distracting. But it's a feature that I'm happy is there for people that will want to use it. At the moment, it's basically just been a way for various group changes. to grief each other. Maybe that's enough, right? But I'm not really convinced about that feature.

But Messages has a couple of features that I do really like. I think Poles is just well done and it's a nice thing to have. But more than anything, the typing indicators and group chats is fantastic. I'm so happy to have that feature because it's something that I think was missing. Call screening and the phone app is great. I've had a few instances where this has worked out really well for me. Like a couple of nights ago, I got a call at 11 p.m. at night. I was like, I want to answer this.

But it turned out it was a food delivery that got really delayed, like a grocery delivery, that I thought just wasn't coming. And they were like, no, like we had an issue, like we're here. And I could see it coming up, like the text was coming up. I was like, great. Like, this was helpful for me. The photo's at, I want to get your thoughts in this in a second. The revised layout, I think, is fine.

But I liked the old layout more personally, like the iOS 18 layout. spatial scenes is impressive technology. Yeah, the spatial scenes is very strange. It is, I think it's great in Vision Pro. I think everyone else is a little bit strange, this idea that you're basically sort of like, the fact that they can do it is amazing. It's like you don't even kind of need portrait mode

if you've got this because it's doing depth based on a machine learning model and it works really well. It is, you know, filling in your backgrounds that it can't see because you can't see around the back of somebody in a photo with kind of this, AI reconstruction of garbage, and you can tell if you look. But it's interesting.

It's more impressive, I think, for sure, in Vision Pro. That is where it makes sense. The layout, I think it's fine. I think, obviously, I didn't mind the old layout either, but I think a lot of people really were bothered by it, the idea that they were trying to float your library collections up, so it wasn't just an infinite list of scrolling. But sometimes people just wanted the infinite list of scrolling photos.

So now you get the infinite list of scrolling photos by default, and there's a toggle for the collections. It's okay. The problem with it is it's not really a toggle. It's a, when it's a toggle at default, but if you start going in through the photos, it reduces to be this little icon. And you have to tap it and then tap it again, basically, to go over to collections. And I don't know. That seems really dumb that I have to tap twice to move over to collections. not once. You have to type once to make it big again so you can have access and then you

tap on collections. Like, I don't know. It's, it's, it's fine. It's not great, but it's fine. And I think it solves the problem of people being, you know, the purpose of the redesign last time was to remind people that there's this whole other set where you can find Apple's machine learning is trying very hard to find good photos for you. And that is, uh, I think it is important because I think most like you just don't want to go through your thousands and thousands of photos and so they're trying to help you but they were trying I guess too hard so they backed off of it this time it's fine and the last system app I wanted to mention was alarms just because I wanted to kind of say I was wrong like I thought that the big alarm buttons would be weird and would result in me

hitting like snooze when I didn't mean to or stop when I didn't mean to I haven't had that issue which makes me think that they did a lot of testing and like how visible these buttons are when you're sleepy. That's my expectation. And I ultimately think it's fine. And I'm happy that people have the customizability for snoozing and stuff like that. So I think iOS 26, like the banner feature is the new design. And I am a fan of the new design. Overall, I think it looks really good and fresh and fun. And it feels like a good starting point for a future, for a future of iOS. And so I'm very keen to see how it unfolds over the next couple of weeks of app updates and then how unfolds over the next couple of years or even

next couple of months or years from Apple's kind of tweaking things. Did you have anything else on iOS that you wanted to touch on? Not really. I mean, iPadOS picks up a lot of the same stuff that's iOS. We can leave more liquid glass discussion for another day.

I would just say that I think that they've made it usable. I think it's fine as a user. I understand the frustrations that developers are having with it. And it'll get better from here right but they they shipped it and people will start getting used to it and i mean even critics of it i think would say that it this is what it i mean it looks new and cool even if

it's frustrating how it doesn't work quite right and the rolling back is not what's going to happen it's just making it so it works better and standing off some of its rough edges is where we're headed this episode is brought to you by factor i don't know about you but fall always feels like a bit of a reset. Everyone's getting back into busier routines, kids are going back to school, and when you add that to shorter days, finding time to cook can be tough. That's why so many people love Factor. Their chef-prepped, dietitian-approved meals making easier to stay on track and enjoy something comforting and delicious, no matter how hectic the season gets. With Factor, you can enjoy more variety and more meals. Choose from a wider selection of weekly menu options,

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Microwave chicken breast, it's not the best, but the factor chicken comes out and it tastes good and it's why we buy them for my mom because she doesn't really want to cook for herself and why Lauren steals them and takes them away to the library with her when we get them here. So, yeah, it's, it's, they're, they're really legitimately a cut above. I, I, I definitely endorse it. And, and, like I said, we wouldn't be sending them to my mom if I thought that they were bad for sure. They were very good. And, uh, and they like, and Lawrence wouldn't steal them from me. She'd be like, take your podcast food. And she does not do that.

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slash upgrade 50 off and the code upgrade 50 off. A thanks to Factor for their support of this show and all of Relay. Let's finish out with some ask upgrade questions for today's show. The first one comes from Upgradian. Thank you, Will, who says, I'm going to be on a similar journey to the one that you went on last year, Mike. My wife and I are expecting twins at the end of this year. congratulations to Will and family.

I'm planning on upgrading my iPhone 15 Pro Max to an air or 17 Pro Max. I've been leaning towards the air, but I'm worried that I'll miss out on a pro camera system in a year that I will really want it. My wife will inherit my iPhone 15 Pro Max to replace her 13, so she'll still have it around. What would you recommend I get? I recommend you get the best camera possible, especially for this first year.

And so I would say, as enticing as the air may feel, I would say if you're making this upgrade, go for 17 Pro Max. What do you think, Jason? Well, you're about to take more photos than you ever have in your life. Get the best camera. I think also you'll benefit from the selfie camera a little bit too because this will have the updated selfie camera and I think that'll be nice. But yeah, get the best camera.

You're not going to regret it because you're going to look at your photo library and say I took how many thousand pictures in 2025 and 26 and 2027? Like, yeah, so I say you got to do it. Get the best camera. I've taken thousands, thousands and thousands of photos since the baby came. And like, this is even, we were always going to give Adina

my iPhone 16 pro. Like, she has 15 right now, and I was going to give her my 16. But we're like, you know what, let's just trade these two phones in, pay like 100 pounds or something and get you the 17 pro. If we're going to make a jump, let's just get you the best camera that you can get right now because she, like me, is taking loads and loads of photos. And I'm really encouraged. One of the things that I meant to mention in our what we've learned section earlier on in the show, but forgot to mention, was Tyler Stormons. He did a video, like a kind of photographer's reaction video,

he called it, where he was at Apple Park. And there was something I found really interesting in that, is that he spent time taking photos. They seemed to do like an influencers, like YouTubers event thing afterwards as well, where he got to take pictures with the 17 Pro, like all the cameras, and got to take images away with him to show in a video.

Like, I don't recall that happening before of like, you can take pictures before review and show them to people. and so they looked fantastic and I think this shows Apple's massive confidence with the quality

of the 17 Pro Camera system so I think this is going to be a good one It's a great example of them listening listening to feedback because I wrote this on Sixth Colors last week that trying to get data off of a demo iPhone in the hands-on area would get you a stern look and a note to see Phil Schiller after class

so that they yeah they've come a long way and they want that but I was also very impressed he was like I've got the photos that I took at Apple Park on the new iPhone I'm like man

good times good job it's good to see Jason writes in different one maybe I don't know was this you we'll find out I haven't upgraded my iPhone

in three years what's the best way to migrate to the new phone nope not me doesn't quick start make both devices unusable for a very long time. And what actually transfers to the new phone and does it depend on which method you use? I vaguely remember having to go into Overcast to re-download podcast episodes

and download Apple Music. Do I need to do anything special for my two-factor apps or are there any other typical stumbling blocks that people hit? What is your answer to this? The best way to move from phone to phone? Well, what I'm not going to do is give you a complete list of all the things you asked because we don't have time for that. But what I will say is what I always do is an ICloud backup and then I restore from the ICloud backup. You can restore direct from another phone that's nearby. It takes time, but it will restore more data

than the I cloud backup will, I think, because there's stuff that doesn't get backed up to ICloud that, you know, Overcast is an example where I think Marco has it set that it does not back up all of your podcast episodes because it can just redownload them again. mostly though this is not an issue it's been years since I had an issue where I had

stuff that hadn't migrated properly and I'll also point out that it doesn't wipe your old phone you could keep your old phone while this is going on and confirm that everything works before you know wiping it out or anything like that so I think that that's the method that I would choose but I believe if you do the transfer direct from the other phone

it takes longer but I think think more data comes over because there is stuff that's omitted from the iCloud backup so that's up to you and how much time you want to spend doing this but i always just use the iCloud backup i use the quick start transfer now um you don't have to wipe the old phone as part of that process i don't know if there's a choice but you don't need to do it um i think it does transfer more but again no i don't believe there's any method that will transfer a hundred percent of what's on your iPhone to another iPhone. I just don't think that it happens. Nor will you be in a scenario where everything will work the way that you want. So what I always recommend is I think kind of what you're saying, don't wipe the

old phone until you know everything's set up correctly. This is like especially important for banking apps because sometimes they just, you need to kind of like de-authenticate one to authenticate the other. It's like it just becomes a big problem. The quick start method does lock both of your phones away for a little while essentially while it's doing the transfer. But I, this is just the method that I've started using and I really like something I will say if you're using any test flight applications install the app store versions of those before because you you will those apps just don't transfer over otherwise which can be annoying so I recommend that but these are all they're all varying levels of good now where they used to be varying levels of bad so whatever one you go

with you'll be fine I would say don't be a monster and set it up from fresh because I just don't know how people live their lives doing that. Dylan asks, what is going on with the chips on the compare page for the 17, the 17 Air, and the 17 pro, the 17, the 17, the 17, the iPhone Air and the 17 Pro. According to the compare page, the Air has an A19 Pro of identical specs to the A19, while the A19 Pro and the 17 Pro has an extra GPU core, is the Air's chip Pro in name only. now I did a little bit digging on this because it's complicated we don't know we don't know but it seems like the speed of the CPU cores and the GPU power are different like even though there are fewer

cores like there may be there's some kind of difference in efficiency or power there we'll have to wait and see because yes if you look at this on the face of it they all have six core CPUs and the air and the 17 have a five-core GPU but they're not the same chip is what Apple's saying. So Apple would not declare the Air has an A19 Pro if it was an A19. So the chip count or the core count is not the only defining factor in what makes a chip have this branding. It is branding. They could have all called this the same. There are obviously something different. We will have to see what it is. Will it matter? I think that that's an open question. the air may be

clocked down or because the air doesn't have the cooling that the pro has, it will get down-clocked more often to maintain its thermals. But, and it appears to be binned, right? It appears to be that they're taking a binned version of the

six-core GPU. So one of the GPUs fails, one of the cores. And so they bin it and they put it in the air instead, which is a thing they've done on the Mac for ages, that they're doing on the iPhone here. But there's something different about the chip that's in the air versus the chip that's in the 17.

And we will have to figure that out over time. But I'm sure there's a difference. I'm not sure. The question is, is it an appreciable difference? And I'm not sure that I know the answer to that question, but it may not be. We'll see. And Andrew writes in and says,

comparing the iPhone 16 with the 256 gigabyte option to the iPhone 17, model makes the 16E seem almost redundant this year. You get so much more for the extra 100 pounds. So Andrew's in the UK. This is an interesting thought. Like there is the amount that this is, this is just one of the fallouts of like the 17 being so good this year. Like it's like such a good phone for the base level that the 16E is less attractive now for the price difference, which you put it at the 256 storage to match the iPhone's 256 storage. Although it was just an interesting data point

that I wanted to put in the show. Sure. And just say, stay tuned for the 17e. See what they do there. I do wonder, because I can't imagine they're going to put a promotion display in that yet, but maybe they just will.

But I guess we'll find out. I don't know when that will be. Maybe March or something. Maybe. I don't know. I guess so. If you'd like to send in a question of your own for us to answer in a future episode of the show,

just go to UpgradeFeedback.com. You can also send us in your feedback and follow up there. Thank you to our members. to support us of Upgrade Plus. You can get longer ad-free episodes of the show every week by going to GetUpgradeplus.com. You can find this show on YouTube by searching for Upgrade Podcast.

Please go to St.Jude.org slash Relay to donate and find out more about the podcastathon that's happening this Friday. Thank you to our sponsors to support this episode. That is Factor, Delete Me, Opencase, and nexus.aI. We'll be back next time. Thank you for listening. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

See you soon, Mike.