Upgrade - 592: Metaphorical Pipeline

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

From Relay, this is Upgrade, episode 592. It is December 1st, 2025. Today's show is brought to you by Century Gusto and Delete Me. My name is Mike Hurley, and I have the pleasure, as always, would be joined by Mr. Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow. Hi, Mike Hurley. I don't know how it's December, but, you know, it's Monday morning and I woke up in December was, it just hit me in the face.

It has started. We'll just have to move on. The season has started. Are you a Christmas tree household? Yeah. Is your tree up? No. I don't know. When would we have, we get a tree. We buy a tree, like a live tree. So, no, I put up some Christmas things. Right. But we buy a live tree.

And you, you wait until Thanksgiving is done before the tree will go up. Is that like the borderline? Yeah. I mean, nothing happens until Thanksgiving is over. And we just got home yesterday. So, you know, very little on that front. Speaking of Thanksgiving, I have a snort talk question that comes from Jonathan who wants to know. Jason, did you smoke your turkey? And if so, what method did you use? And how was it? If so, what method do you use is interesting because it, like, I, anyway, I didn't. I was in, in Colorado visiting family. And so I did not have to make a turkey. I was not looked at as the turkey designated turkey maker. I can do a turkey a lot of different ways,

but we used a pellet grill, a Traker smoker, which is what I, it's the inspiration for me buying one so that I can do that too. But I left that to my brother-in-law. He took care of that. I made some Brussels sprouts, like in a nice kind of soy marinade kind of thing, and they were really good. And there were lots of dishes, and there was like a dozen people. And we had a good time, but I didn't have to make the turkey. But if I were to make the turkey at this point, that is what I would do. I'd brine a turkey, and then I'd put it in a, smoker for a few hours, and that would be, it would be tasty like it was at my brother-in-law's house. Mike, did you get to celebrate American Thanksgiving with your American friends? We did, actually. We spent Thanksgiving at the Smith household, the underscore household. We have never had a, like a home-cooked Thanksgiving on Thanksgiving before, and it was

wonderful. The food is fantastic. The company was even better. We had a really wonderful time. It was lovely. It was really nice. And so, yeah, we had a great Thanksgiving. Thank you very much. That's great. And you use the opportunity on your blog to list a bunch of things you were thankful for. So fully in the spirit of American Thanksgiving. You know, I think that, like, being thankful is just a nice thing, you know? Like, I think it.

It is a good practice and reminder. And it's nice that there's a holiday where the whole premise of it is. Think about, be with family. This is not about any particular, you know, religious holiday or federal memory of something. When you boil it down, it is just, isn't it nice to be with people and have a feast holiday and think. And I mean, you can say what you're thankful for or you could just look around you and be thankful that you are with your people, whoever they might be. You know, we were talking about this actually at Thanksgiving. It was like, it is nice that there is less pressure on Christmas.

Like in the UK, the pressure is all on Christmas. It's the big meal. It's the gifts. You've got to see everyone. Like, it's all on the one day. And, like, you end up in this scenario when you're in couples and then, like, you're going to one person's house one year and then another, the other, like, family the other year, all that kind of stuff. It's nice that you have these two things. Like, they're basically a month apart, right?

And that, you know, you get to have that kind of split. And it takes the pressure off the Christmas dinner. And also, like, Turkey, it's not the best meat. right like it's it's like a nice celebration meat but i think like most people if they eat meat would maybe have a different choice for like what their favorite might be and then people you get to try that out right on christmas like oh i'm going to do a ham this year or i'm going to do something else where we're like for christmas like we're always doing turkey because like that's the time that you would eat it so it's nice i think it's nice that you have those those two but

it's good times if you would like to send in a snow talk question of your own just like jonathan did you can go to Upgradefeedback.com and submit yours. Jason, it is time to cast our eyes towards the most glorious episode of the year. The Upgradings. I wonder where you were going with that. That sentence took a journey. It is The Upgratees.

It is Upgrady's season. Hooray. Literally my favorite episode of the show every year. I love The Upgrady's so much. It is going to be the 12th annual Upgradees at the end of the month. We're going to do it. I think the last episode,

episode of the year, I think is what we planned with the way that things are falling on the calendar. I believe the, what is it? The 29th of December is going to be the Upgradees. And we'll do the holiday, our own holiday special on the 22nd. And then we'll be back with regular, regularity on the 5th. So we're asking for your nominations. If you're new to the show or you would like a refresh of how the Upgadies works, basically we pick our favorite thing across a bunch of categories and we've been doing this for long enough now that we have a history. You actually can always go to theupgratees.com and you can see the history of all the winners and that is maintained and put together. It's a group effort.

But Zoe Knox is putting together the website for us and they maintain that for us, which is awesome so you can go and see by category by year. So that's always there if you want to go and see that. but basically Jason and I will be picking the winners and we will come to the categories of our own nominations but what we would like is for you, the Upgradions, to also put in your own submissions as well for nominations because sometimes it helps us pick a winner. Please help. Sometimes it helps us create nominations because there are some categories that we have less ideas for. Yeah, you can remind us of things that if you as a group remind us of things that helps us too. what doesn't happen is one person says one thing. We collect,

we have a system of collecting them. But if five people or 10 people say a thing, then we will notice that. And that's helpful. Yeah, I always go through in the show and talk like the top three things that were nominated by the Upgradians.

And so we put those in there. And that's also just like a nice thing and then we'll pick what we want our winners to be from that. So you can go to Upgradees. I'm probably going to close the nominations. kind of around the 22nd of December. I will confirm this in future weeks, but don't wait on it.

Go and put your nominations in, and it will help us when it comes to doing the show at the end of the year. So that's at Upgradees.comvote, and of course there'll be a link in the show notes. It's the 12th annual Upgratees, which is amazing. They said it couldn't be done, but we have done it.

Jason, I have some follow-out for you. Okay. You wrote about Festivitas. Yes. This was a thing, so this is an app that we'll talk about in a minute. This is, I read this a bunch of times in my head and thought it was pronounced a certain way. And it wasn't until I was preparing for the show and realized I had to say it out loud that it's not festatats or festive tas. It's festivitas.

That's the full name of the app. Yes, like Latin like. Yes, this was an app that was produced, was it last year by Simon Stovering. Yep, last year. And it was to put some holiday lights and take. to add some holiday cheer to your Mac's menu bar and dock, was the idea behind the eye. Doc. Yeah, right, right.

So he updated the Mac app and introduced an iOS app. You're going to talk about the iOS app. I will say the Mac app adds, he's done a little bit of polishing over the last year, and also he added some snowfall now, and added shortcuts support, which lets you scripted. So the thing that I experimented with was could I, I mean, I thought it would be fun if there was a snowfall. But then I thought it's what's more fun is if there's a surprise snowfall. So I wrote a shortcut that randomly, oh my goodness, it just happened.

It just triggered on my Mac every 20 minutes it runs. That's incredible. And there's a one, it's a Christmas miracle. One in ten chance. It's literally we're recording this at 9.20 a.m. So the script just ran in the background. And there's a one in ten chance that it will be snowing. And then it will also randomly choose how heavy it's snowing and how hard the wind is blowing.

Because you can do that. So you could have it be at 5 p.m. start snowing. You know, whatever you want. What I wrote was a shortcut that runs every 20 minutes using Cronjob and randomly gives you the chance to get a surprise snowfall. Because I am delighted when you are just doing your thing. and then suddenly, look, it's snowing, which is what, I mean, seriously, you could not have indented this better. And it was absolutely random.

It just triggered. And it is the one in ten chance that it's snowing on the episode right now. Do you have the lights up too? I do. Okay. I think I need to install us on my Mac. I have not installed it on my Mac here, but I wanted to play around with the iPhone app, which I did this morning.

So this is interesting, right? with Simon, like, made an app for the iPhone as well. I guess it works on iPad OS as well, but it's to make widgets. And so what the app will let you do is a couple of things. You can create a photo widget and put lights on it, or you can create a quote-unquote transparent widget and put lights on it too. So you could just have some holiday lights on your phone, like on your, you know, with your wallpaper there.

So this app is really nice. Like, I think the way that Simon is presenting the U.S. for customizing and adding the widgets is really, really good. And for the amount of complexity that is here is incredible. I have more of an idea of how widgets are made than I ever have before. And what Simon is doing is quite complex. And the way that he's built the system to do all of this, I think is fascinating. The way that you create the transparent widgets is clever, like you take a screenshot of your, like a blank home screen and you put that in the app and it will create what it needs. The problem is iOS 26 kind of ruined transparent widgets

because it adds a little sheen around the edge of the widget. And so you end up with just like ghost square. Because it used to be like widgets did not have a little like reflection that goes on around them, but that's one of the kind of liquid glassy things. You know, they had this to icons and also to widgets. But I've added two photo widgets to my iPhone home screen of our Christmas, like the Sophia on our Christmas tree, like we're taking pictures of her when we're putting up the tree for the first time. And so now I have these widgets and they have little lights around them that are flashing

and you can choose how often you want to flash and the colors. And this is a really, really cool app. And I think it's a very nice way to celebrate the holidays with some photos on your orange. your iPhone. I think it's really, really cool. He did a great job. Jason, are you ready to lawyer up? If I must. Yes. So, this one is kind of like a combo of it's kind of follow-upy, but it's something new,

but it's similar to kinds of things we've been talking about over the last year or so. So Reuters is reporting that the Indian government is ordering smartphone makers to pre-install a state-owned cyber safety app. The app, the app is being positioned from a user's perspective as a way to try and tackle phone theft in India and allow for easier recovery of lost and stolen devices but it also enables the potential for the Indian government to have the ability of being very vague here to track and locate all devices used by its citizens

so it is like a phone tracking software that essentially, you know, is being pictured like, hey, we're going to help you, but it also could obviously be used for other things. And then what kind of hammers this home is that the order from the government is that the app cannot be deleted. So Apple and Google, for example, who have to pre-install this or make sure that it is installed during setup, and then it can't be removed. Additionally, the government is mandating their apps that use encrypted messaging link the profile to the SIM card of the user by accessing the IMSI number of that SIM for authentication. And so, you know, they're using this as way like, hey, you can always log back into your, you know, when you get a new phone, it would be easy because they're linked together.

But as 9 to 5 Mac notes, in India, you need to use a government ID to purchase a SIM card. So this would again indicate the possibility of the government being able to track down this encrypted messaging account is tied to this SIM card, which is tied to this person based on the fact that they use their ID to buy it. So not great set of things. Now, I wanted to include this in the show for a couple of reasons. One, this is a thing that Apple's going to have to deal with. And it is also like it reminds me of like some of the stuff that was trying to be a, aka also still. trying to be done in the UK and other places. It reminds me of things that they have done with China.

But then also, while it's possible that Apple could try to push back on this and maybe suggest it would give users the option to download it or something, once again, they are finding themselves in a situation where they are trying to balance these requests against the other needs that they have as a business. We've been talking about the fact that they're trying to diversify their manufacturing processes to rely more heavily on India, now the Indian government is going to say

we want you to do this not a great scenario to be in I feel like history suggests that they usually are pretty good at working around these issues

I recall that what the Russia had a little collection of apps that they wanted everybody to have and I think

what Apple ended up doing was doing kind of an app store link thing where you would be you know sort of like sort of like including garage band or something like that.

It's like it's actually just in the app store, but you are suggested to get it or maybe it auto downloads it from the app store when you log in, but that that was the limit that they were willing to go is sort of like a presence as a special app that you should download or whatever, but nothing beyond that. And that Apple is not, certainly not preloaded apps,

you know, just for a certain market on in a, advance. I don't think they do that anywhere, even in China. So I don't know, but this is the thing that they always try to work on. I found a story while I was searching for background on this. I found a story that Putin apparently has now mandated that all phone makers include a Russian government-run app store on their phones. And I'm sure that would be a big story of Apple we're in that market, which it's not. And I'll tell you, number one, if everything else blows over for some reason and suddenly people are doing business in Russia again somehow and that law remains. I'll just say it would be very easy for Apple to just never enter that

market again if that's the requirement. So good good job Russian government in in erecting another barrier. But here it's a place that they are and they want to be and they want to grow. So we'll see how Apple. I mean, what Apple will say is our model's a little different. We don't have third parties that are generating hardware that are including software on them. We use the App Store as our only delivery, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and see if they can get, my guess is something that's more like what they did in Russia. Yeah, the not deleting thing is interesting to me. I don't know if there is precedent for that. I remember that. It was almost similar to what the browser choice is like, right? With these apps in Russia, they're like, hey, why don't you download

these, right? And you could, you know, it presented you with those options. They could also argue that it's something like, you know, you're actually trying, we don't need this on iPhones because we already have all, we have our activation lock and our Apple ID lock. And so we've got all of our, you don't need anything for easier recovery of a lost or stolen iPhone. It's fine. So you don't have to worry about it. And, you know, but in the end it becomes a, guess what, a political conversation. Yeah. With the, with the, with the.

place in mind. And, you know, they, they want Apple to be in their market. Apple wants to be in their market. And so the question is, how are we going to do this? And, you know, I would say that Apple being in India is important to Apple, but there are also lines Apple won't cross. So we'll see where they draw the line there. We'll see. We've mentioned this before. And we're going to keep mentioning it because it's still December. So we're still running our holiday sale here at Relay, where you can get 20% off the first year of an annual plan. So if you go to getupgradeplus.com and use the code 2025 holidays at checkout, you will get yourself 20% off the first year of an annual plan.

So many people have done this, Jason, and it's so amazing. I've been really blown away by the response so far this year. And I think there's a good reason for it because it's only a dollar an episode. You get no ads, more content, and support the show you love. If I say to you, listener, if you think like over the course of a year, $56, that's not that much money to me, well, why don't you give it to us? You know? Like if you think, oh, $56 a year, I could part with $56 a year. Would you know who would like that $56 a year? This show would like that. So why don't you give it to us? Go to get Upgradeplus.com, the code 2025 holidays at checkout. You will get tons of benefits for being a member. You get access to the relay discord. You get bonus content. We have not just on this show, but we have bonus content that goes out to members every month from a variety of relay hosts. There's tons of stuff. And hey, if you're the type of person as well, maybe you're like, I don't know what I want people to buy me for the holidays.

I find it so frustrating to give options. Why not say go to giverelay.com and they can gift you a membership to Upgradeplus. So go to giverelay.com or getupgradeplus.com and use the code 2025 holidays at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Century. Broken lines of code, busted API calls and app crashes. Nobody likes these things. That is why Century exists. It's the only developer-first app monitoring platform built to give you answers, not clues.

Century gives you tools like error monitoring, distributed tracing, session replays, and two freshly minted tools, and AI agent monitoring and structured logs to get to the root cause of an issue faster. It's used by millions of developers, including some of the biggest apps like Disney Plus, Duolingo, and Claude, and Century recently launched a new AI agent, SEAR, which can automatically generate fixes of over 90% of accuracy. As a user of applications, I like it when they work. I don't want to be bumping into bugs. I don't want to be bumping into errors or crashes.

And I know I have friends, well, I have friends that I work with developers, and I know how important it is to make sure that their apps are running well. So having tools that can help you identify and quickly fix the errors, the bugs that your users are seeing, this is a great tool. And with SEA, Century's new AI debugging agent on hand, it's like hiring an engineer who already knows your entire code base. SEA finds the correct root cause 94% of the time and can even provide merge-ready pool requests that are based on that analysis. Try it for free at S-E-N-T-R-Y-O and tell them that we sent you. They have a free dev plan, and listeners of this show can use the code upgrade pod on

sign-up for three months free of their team plan and 150,000 free errors. That's sentry.io, S-E-N-T-R-Y-O, and use the code upgrade pod, or just click the link in the show notes, or thanks to Century for their support of this show and relay. So room roundup time. Yeah. According to Mark German,

iOS 27 will be focused on two key areas. There will be obviously some features for Apple Intelligence, but also overall OS quality and stability. Mark German invokes Snow Leopard

and the idea of it. The no new features, we're just going to focus on bugs idea, that whole idea, a thing that has come up many times over the years, Apple should have us no Lopadier, Shavasna Lopadier, Mark invoked it, I don't imagine Apple would have marked it, and that this release is just focused on making the OS feel better to use. That's the idea, rather than adding major user-facing features. Apparently, Apple is tasking its developers to stamp out bugs, improve performance,

cut bloat in respective areas of the operating system. I would expect that after such a big redesign it makes sense to do something like this. I can imagine that maybe they were stretched or things were not necessarily the way they would have wanted to ship or there's lots of clean-up that they would like to do. So I kind of get the point of wanting to do this. Mark also expects some new styling or customization options

for liquid glass to just naturally be in the OS as they've had another year with it and have had another year of feedback. What do you think about the idea of a Snow Leopard year for iOS 27? Well, I mean, the first thing is it was marketing and there were new features in Snow Leopard, right? It's not actually what people think it is. There was a lot of under the hood stuff, right, that got changed. Everybody always says, oh, bug fixes, there should be bug fixes.

And like, yes. So I think this is them after their year where they were trying to blast AI into the operating systems and a year where they had to deal with all of the issues involving their new, with liquid glass, taking a year where they're saying, let's maybe put our, first off, we'll take our foot off the gas. Also, there will probably be some AI stuff that we have to put in anyway because of whatever is going on with Apple's AI approach going forward. And then we have other things that we need to take care of. So, like, I think, I don't think anything happens like this without the right conditions where you can afford to do something like this.

But I agree, I think that as they also, you know, maybe have two different iPhone seasons going forward, maybe the pressure on an individual OS release is not as great. They also have this feeling of like not over-promising and under-delivering because of what happened with Apple intelligence. So I can see this as a, first off, they could use the time. They are the ones who insist on having an annual tent pole software release. I also can't imagine that there's not going to be a WWDC next year that's going to list off some important new things for developers to do for iOS 27. I can't see it. But I think if the idea is that those might be more APIs and that they're doing cleanup and it's for developers to make their apps better and not a whole slew of things that Apple itself is introducing, I think that's great because Apple puts this burden on itself and it doesn't have to. I mean, I've said it on this show before, but I still think it's the case that I think that

WWC next year will also focus on the reintroduction of sub the Air Pill Intelligence features that they haven't shipped by that point, which is where I think we will be. Like, I just, I think the further we go, just the less likely that I imagine that all these features will ship by June, it just doesn't seem possible to me. But who knows? Like, I want to be surprised. This is the logical follow-up from them under promising and over-delivering this year, right? They're not going, they've, stuff they've previously promised, they continue to promise, and everything else they're not talking about. And one of the reasons they're not talking about it is because they've decided this year that if they don't have it ready to show people, they're not going to talk about it.

So we will, other than maybe a Mark German leak here or there, you're not going to see even groundwork. being laid very much until they have there'll be a beta and then you know Apple PR will say in this beta there's this thing that is part of that but like I think it's a natural consequence of what happened last year yeah that's a good point you know some of you mentioned a minute ago about like the idea of splitting the iPhone releases there is something to be said that like maybe we would see the introduction of some features around that time as like another reason for people to pay attention to if they did an event for the non-pro phones

you know that like could be because like there is a thing about that of like how they will do that roll out is interesting

right because they will have the September event where they'll be like here are the pro phones here is the folding phone etc when it comes around

to the spring of the following year where they'll be like and here's the standard phone the plus and the end the way in which they will release those products is interesting, right? Because to do a quote-unquote keynote, like a video,

feels like, well, what are you going to tell me that I don't already know because you've already shipped the other phones? And it's not like the base model phones or the non-pro phones. It's not either going to have a bunch of new features that aren't already in the but then also the idea of them releasing three iPhones as just press releases also seems weird to me like it feels like like that's it's such a massive product even the ones that aren't the pro phones right they are huge products like the regular iPhone that like them just being like oh and hey on the store on Friday look forward to it like it feels like I'm

it will be very intriguing to see how, because they could just do it, right? Like the portion of the iPhone keynote, that is, hey, here's the iPhone 17, they could just do that in the spring, right? Here it is. Like, we're just going to do that portion. It's got this, it's got that, it's got this, it's got this, it's got that, it's this price it comes out on this date. But do they want them to be watched? Because if they do, that might not be as intriguing as it once was I don't know I don't know

having obviously you if you want it to be more than a website drop you're going to want there to be some substance behind it so it could be accessories it could be

software features that are held for that right that the idea of well and even not held honestly because we we focus on this much more closely than anybody else does so literally

if you've got a 0.3 release coming out about the same time and we've all seen what's in the betas they're still going to tell you look at all the amazing things that iOS 27 does yeah and it's still going to include those features so they they can get away with it their job with the iphone event even if they do a second spring event is not to impress us right it's to it's to make enough of a splash that people notice but that you know adding features in the os is one way they could do that they could do some special features they could just be iterating on the betas i mean they also they make more than just iPhones right it's like here's a new iPad here's a new mac that's the other way you make

yes that's the other way you make a wave in your spring event is it's iPhones and max and iPads and other things and you build it up that way and they definitely have products to sell because once upon a time there was a spring event right like we that was just a thing that we always expected is like it was a music event or it was an iPad event or like something right and so putting two kind of defined dates not you know defined ranges of time on the calendar six months apart like there there I can see some logic in that you know like maybe instead of instead of showing off this iPad in April you show it off in March maybe it goes on sale in April maybe you know or whatever but it does you know they can they can make this

still more than just you know what this thing is going to be by adding in some other stuff along with the iPhone part of the presentation, which is still obviously important, but I think some of the shine is taken off, taken off it if we've kind of gotten a preview. So like, for example, the selfie camera that's on all the phones, right, this year, well, we would have already known about that for six months before they show it to us. in the regular iPhone in that scenario. It's like it kind of maybe makes some of that feel less exciting. I don't know.

But that is going to be like for me and you, for what we do, isn't it be fascinating to see how they uncouple the iPhone announcements from each other and like what their plan is going to be for that? Right, because I could argue that if they did that this year and it comes to March and the iPhone 17 is introduced and it's at that price and it hasn't all,

always on phone. We already knew about that. It has the new selfie camera. We already knew about that, but it hadn't been on the iPhone 16, that they have made a splash. The fact that those, we don't know what features are on. And if they've got features that were great on the pro and that they bring them to the regular phone right away at an unexpected price, then, you know, they can, I think to a certain degree they can get away with actually announcing existing features because they don't exist on the previous generation of that model. I think they can, get away with some of that. Well, so hilariously, it would have been perfect to do it with the iPhone 17. Right? It would have been. Because I don't think the iPhone 18 is going to be as impressive as the

17 was. I don't see how it can be. Because they're just, what else is there out there? They just did it. Yeah, they've done it. They just did that thing. Yeah. That's a funny, that's a funny scenario they found themselves in. So to come to the second part of iOS 27, obviously Mark talks about Apple intelligence features being a part of this release, that we should see some before then that were shown off at WWC 2024. But also there will be some new features in iOS 27 for Apple intelligence, including some features in the health app powered by Apple intelligence, an AI powered web search. And throughout the report, Mark references AI, big AI upgrades, but doesn't mention anything about them like but the expectation i guess that he has and i have is

there is there would be more apple intelligent stuff you just know what that is think of it this way there's a pipeline of of stuff we're using one of those metaphorical pipelines here yeah for the you know it's the ai dispenser right it is fed by this pipe um separate from other features it's like a an ai pez i was going to say it's a little like a like a like a beer tap. There's a pipe that runs and then there's the beer tap and you can pull on AI. My point is, view that as separate from the path that does other stuff. It's like all of the AI integration, which involves having models and who are the models from and where are they running and all that stuff. Let's consider that on its own. Asking what's in the pipeline for iOS 27

is almost impossible right now because we don't even know what's in the pipeline. We're in the pipeline for the second half of iOS 26. And they're still trying to resolve promises they made essentially a year ago that they haven't delivered on. Two years ago from what we're talking about now as well, right, which is WWDC next year. Yeah. So I think what Mark is saying is obviously the AI improvements will continue. I mean, I think that that's a good way of viewing it is that presumably they will ship what they can. They will have to pick up the pieces of what they can't. They will have to figure out who their deals are with and where their models are and how that attaches to the rest of the OS. And what they're not going to do

is talk about it in a giant milestone because they did that a couple years ago and it was a disaster. They're going and they have new management and they're going to have new goals. So like, I think this is all still coming together and they are not worried about what they're going to ship in 2627, you know, a year, year time frame, right? In iOS 27, they are not worried about it because they're like, what are we doing in the next six months, not what are we doing in the next 18 months? So I think, and I think they would be right to be viewing it that way. So Mark's assumption is they will continue to have to push and figure out the AI integration

stuff, but that's just going to be what it's going to be. And I think that's right. I think that it's impossible to even see over the horizon to that right now from here. Because they've got to fix what's here. Yep. The two things he does mention, though, so health app stuff, this is one of the things that I am almost begging Apple to do at this point. This is the Health Plus, basically, which he actually suggested that maybe this ends up inside fitness. They get merged together into a single product.

which I think they should be if they're going to charge for like AI powered health features if that is a service I think they're much better rolling that up in with fitness than having another thing on the side

that doesn't make sense to me because like I've been talking about it a bunch but I've been used in an app for the last month or two a couple of months actually called athletic and it's essentially taking the data of my Apple Watch and just pulling it together

which is a thing that just frustrates me so much with Apple's health app. It's like they have all of this information about me and they just show me kind of what I see is like pretty basic statistics. Like I want you to pull this and this together and give me an idea of my day. Right?

So like they started doing the sleep score thing, right? The sleep score just talks about the sleep. It doesn't take into effect any of your vitals overlaid with your sleep. So, like, if you had a difference in your wrist temperature or a difference in your heart rate variability, that would have affected how you're going to feel. And the Apple's sleep score does not do this. But, like, if you use athletic or whoop or sleep plus, plus, or any of these types of apps

that are taking health vital information from the Apple Watch or from a competing product, right, like whoop or aura or something, and overlaying that with your sleep tracking data, you get massively different numbers because it's actually taking the signs of your body into account of how much sleep you got and it will make a difference. So like I really want Apple to just even if they, it isn't AI at all and they're just like taking this data and overlaying it of each other, I want them to do this. And then that app that I use Athletic, it uses Apple's foundation models to actually like you can you can ask it to process your kind of, it just like basics like oh this is you know a text summary at the top of what you're how are you

feeling what your body's doing but you can use Apple's the inbuilt model on the phone to kind of like give you some recommendations and stuff based on these parameters and I'm sure that the developers have like primed the the prompt or something with like you know you're a fitness app da la la but I just want to see Apple take the information they have from these incredible sensors that I wear on my wrist and give me some recommendations about how I should live my life based on that. It almost feels like at this point

they lack these features because they've got something planned, right? It almost feels like the reason that these features have, why would they not have already been there is because they're holding them back because they have a scheme for something. Because they are like at this point, this is another place where they are really falling behind

their competitors, right? like these other devices that you would wear, like bands and rings and stuff like that, where there, it's not even just the AI, it is just the, this data and this data and put it together and give the user a recommendation. And it feels like as well that there has maybe been like an institutional fear of like making health recommendations to people, but I want that. So Tony has asked in the chat, I'll put a link in the show as the app that I'm using is called athletic. I really like it.

There's a few apps like this now. But essentially it's like what if Woot Band but not the Woot Band? Like you're just taking the information from the watch and displaying it in some ways. But also Mark suggested an AI

powered web search. Don't really know what this is based on that. Right? Like I know we've been talking about some stuff that they've been trying to do. Like the knowledge portion right of like was it

knowledge answers and something else that they've been building that kind of team to kind of try and replace some of the the world knowledge stuff that they're using open AI for but like is this replacing Google then like what is this

with that amount of information this doesn't really tell us much no I mean I yeah I what at this point we're just kind of diagramming Mark German sentences and I just don't think there's any point. Like, this is, this is that stuff that's in the pipeline. Like, he's got a, he's got a background source that's like, oh, we're working on some

web search stuff that we're going to do. And it's like, okay, I'll put that in. But like, what is that going to be? And how is it going to be implemented? And, and there may be somebody at Apple working on something like that that may be entirely preempted by what their deals end up being with various partners. So, okay, I'll believe it. Again, I, 27. There's a famous thing You may not know this because it's an American sports thing. But there's this, there's a, it's, it would have been a big meme if there were memes when it happened. And it was still kind of a meme, even, even still. There was a coach of the, I think he was the Indianapolis Colts.

And they had just lost a game in terrible fashion. And somebody said, what about the, what are you thinking, you know, especially if you go to the play? playoffs. And he was so disgusted. This is Jim Morrow was his name. And he's so disgusted. And he just looked at the journalist and he went on a rant. And it was like, playoffs! Playoffs! And it was very much like, what are we even talking about here? That's a little bit how I feel about AI and iOS 27 talk. It's like 27. 27, we're not even, you haven't even done 26 yet. And I don't believe that anybody who's telling Mark German anything about iOS. 27 involving AI, that person is like, that is a message coming from inside the cloud with the question mark on it. Like, that's nice that you're working on stuff. We'll see. Because I don't necessarily believe that even Apple knows what is going to come out of that cloud. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Gusto. As a new year is around the corner, a lot of us are trying to get our business operations together. And honestly,

having payroll, benefits and HR handled by Gusto feels like starting the new year of a clean desk and an organized inbox so you can focus on actually growing your business. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's an all-in-one, remote-friendly and incredibly easy to use applications so you can pay, hire, on board and support your team

from anywhere. We're talking unlimited payrolls, runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises, save time with automated tools built right in, offer letters, onboarding materials, direct deposit, and more. Gusto is the number one payroll software according to G2 for 4, 2025 and is trusted by over 400,000 small businesses. As a small business owner, you would be surprised just how many little things you have to think about. There are so many things that you need to do. And if you can have something that is going to save you some time or money or frustration, it is good to just take that thing.

And that is what Gusto is offering you when it comes to payroll and benefits and HR and all of this stuff. It takes care of all of it so you don't have to. So you can actually get back to doing the thing that you want to do or the things that you need to do. Go and try Gusto today at gusto.com slash upgrade and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free payroll at G-U-S-T-O.com

slash upgrade. One more time, gusto.com slash upgrader thanks to Gusto for their support of this show and relay. We're going to continue the rumor roundup by talking about the iPhone fold. So Mac Rumors is reporting via Chinese website UDN that the iPhone fold has entered the quote, engineering validation stage. So this is like a point where they've reached in the design process where they're like,

all right, we can start building some of this thing. 9 to 5 max says the engineering validation will mean that a production line is being established and it means that like 100 prototype units are set to be made. So like they're at the point where they're like, we think we know how to do this. Let's see if we were right. And then they'll make some tweaks and stuff like that from there. I think the report says that a hundred of them have been made. Have been made.

They've already, they've already, they're not set to be made. They're already there. This is the, what, EVT process. There's a whole thing that is only vaguely exposed to the rest of us, which is the, if you know somebody at Apple, they will occasionally say, oh, well, that's an EVT build or something, or a DVT build. It's not a, right, it's like part of the process of getting the assembly line up and running. It's a whole different thing.

These are not shipping products. This is like, did this work? Are we building this right kind of stuff? But it means that they built a hundred of them. That's a good sign. That is a good sign. UDN says that Apple's apparently, quote, solved the crease problem.

So Mac rumors in their reporting on this mentions that this has been a consistent source of rumor where Apple have been working very hard on hinge engineering and display choices. So the screen itself, the panel, is going to be made by Samsung, but the structure of the panel and the lamination processes are created by Apple. This, along with a hinge, which will include liquid metal components, apparently solve the crease problem.

I still remain highly skeptical of what solve means in this scenario. Yeah. Although let's keep in mind that it's probably a, may very well be a next generation Samsung screen, that is not the one that's in the current models. Sure. But, yeah, we're putting a lot into what? Like, you can envision the solving the crease problem,

which is that you can feel or see the part that folds. You could view that as being like it's not there. Or you could view it as somebody at Apple has finally said, this is good enough. And is that good enough the same good enough as the current generation Android phones, is it a little... My guess is it's a little bit better

but not gone, right? Just better. And that the crease problem being solved is another way of stopping to talk about not having a crease. Instead, we're just saying, we've solved the problem. And what remains is not a problem. It's what are you talking about?

We solved the problem. It's fine. We didn't say it didn't have a crease. We said that, you know, you said, we didn't even say there was a problem, but you said there was a crease problem with folding phones and there's no problem with our phone. Our phone is great. And like that, between that and there is no crease, there is a lot

of wiggle room. Yeah. Because I just don't understand how you wouldn't be able to see or feel it. Like, because the screen is folding in half and there is a hinge. Yeah. Like I don't I just, I don't know, man. Like when you were here,

I showed you my pixel fold right? And you could, if you pay attention, you can notice that there's a crease there. But when you're using it, you just don't. Like, you're just using it. You know, like, you're not paying attention to the fact that it has it because the screen is on. The screen is bright. You don't see it and you barely feel it. There feels like that is, honestly, to me, I mean, I used the original galaxy fold and I've used the pixel fold. I will tell you that the pixel fold solved the crease problem for me. Like, it just

isn't an issue anymore. So I'm, I'm intrigued to see what that actually means for Apple. Well, I mean, it may literally be, this may be entirely inside baseball. It may entirely be that this is that what you're feeling is what Apple also said, which is okay, we can make this product. Because I think that what Apple was saying is, until we solve this problem, we won't make this product. And that by building this in, it's their take on it. And, you know, I've definitely this came up on Mac Break Weekly and the the Twitter audience has a lot of people in it

who are not they're kind of adversarial to Apple which I don't know why they are listening hate listening maybe when they're like oh boy here it is Apple making claims that they've done well first off they're not making any claims this is all just about the background of this Apple will not talk about

solving the crease problem like they're just not going to talk about that they will boast about how great it is and how there's no, you can't even tell or whatever they want to make that claim. But my point is, you know, Apple's doing what other phone manufacturers who want to build this phone have done, which is work hard to generate an engineering solution that makes it work and feel good. And is their solution different than anybody else's? Maybe.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past them that Apple, because it's Apple and because they have access to, I mean, these stories sort of go into it. they have access to partners and materials that allow them like okay i'm gonna i'm gonna back up for a second the apple and china book one of the things about that very good book apple and china did you read it not yet i will i will that word yet i want to because i want to but i just haven't yet but i do want to that that might be your reading assignment yeah you may have a reading assignment now to do that so that we can talk about it anyway one of the things in there the thing that i think stuck with me the most is one of the reasons that Apple has been so successful in the last 20 years is because other companies, and I'm not saying all, and I'm not saying every instance with

Apple, but other companies figure out what's been made and what the tools are that are available and they make the best product they can or they make the product. I mean, let's say they might make the product that they have to. They might vow to make the best product they can and sell it at a higher price. Apple invents stuff, right? Like Apple will say, we want to create this phone and people will be like, well, there's no tool to do that. And Apple will say, great, let's make that tool. Let's go to this company and pay them, you know, a billion dollars to make a production line that makes a thing. And that's one of Apple's advantages. And then everybody else does it because Apple has made it possible because Apple was like, we need, we need this interim step to get from our dream to shipping millions of our dream in a way that nobody else does. I'm sure that in some circumstances, some companies, and maybe Samsung is an example of that, because they definitely have manufacturing skill in that arm of their company. But like that's that's sort of where Apple's Secret sauce is now, is on the hardware side, is that will to do that. So when we talk about

solving the crease problem or whatever it is, my guess is that these reports are basically saying Apple is pushing, Apple figured out that there's certain things they could do that would make a folding phone work a lot better. It required new engineering that might go a little bit beyond what their competitors have done so far and that that to Apple was worth it to get it where they wanted it to be. Now, that may be the case. It may be that everybody who knows this will be like, well, it's actually kind of a lot like what Google does or what Samsung does

in this area. It's a little different. Maybe it's a little nicer. Maybe it doesn't matter. I mean, I can hear all the discourse about it. But that's my guess is that Apple used its manufacturing power to come up with a process that they think is

if not better than the competition, which they probably do, at least clears their, what do they call it, the quality bar. So that's my guess. That's my guess. It will be really interesting if like the, you know, you say about like the material stuff that they've done if a few of these things come kind of back to them in an interesting way because liquid metal, one word, is a company

that Apple has been in an exclusive relationship with in its history. I've been trying to do some Googling here to see if it like continues. I found an Apple insider article that they wrote based on the fact that liquid metal was referenced in this iPhone folder. Because you remember they went into this, it's a company called Liquid Metal and they make products from Liquid Metal and they have like their own technology to do it well. And it creates, you know, some interesting results. This is all more above my pay grade. But do you remember like the Sim ejector tool that's been made from these processes for years? And it would be very interesting if like one of the ways that they've been able to make this phone or we'll make this phone the way that they'll make it is because

of that and then also the work of Corning. Because that's when I read that like the structure on lamination processes are created by Apple. It's like, is that in collaboration with Corning? Because that's going to be an interesting part of this, is what's the glass on this phone? I think all of this is, are you getting it yet? Yeah, exactly. Right? Which is, which, again, what I will not say, because I doubt it's true, is Apple's going to do a folding phone the likes of which nobody's ever seen before, right?

Because this is not the case. Apple has been working on folding phone prototypes for a long time and seems to have not been satisfied with any of them and now they seem satisfied. So that's great. But just because Apple is Apple and because Apple has all of these supplier relationships and has money,

and we'll have, I mean, they're going to sell, this thing, success or failure, this thing will sell more phones than probably any single folding phone model because it's an iPhone, right? They're going to have volume because it's Apple, just because it's Apple. So does Apple have the clout

to have a very special, specially engineered surface from Corning? Yes. Will it use liquid metal parts that have never been built before something you can't take off the shelf that's entirely differently processed? Probably, right?

Like those are their advantages as they have that kind of thing. So yeah, I think that's what it'll be. and who knows what the claims will be. They will probably not talk about competitors and they will probably not talk about the fold problem, a crease problem, unless it serves them,

unless, again, they feel like, oh, you've heard about folding phones, but they've got a crease and ours doesn't. And they'll boast about it in that way, but it'll be more generic if they do it. And I do think they will boast to a certain degree because I do think that it's crossed a line for them where they think that this product is good enough.

That said, if there's literally anything that is not quite perfect about it, everybody will know. And they know that the world's eyes are on them. So it'll be an interesting challenge for them to spin it, however they get there. Macrum has also rounded up a few recent rumors about the device, that it could have an under-display 24-megapixel camera. so the new selfie camera that's in the phones but under the display that the iPhone fold could feature high density battery cells resulting in the largest battery in any iPhone ever and that the starting price could be set somewhere between

$2,000 and $2,500. High density battery cell not surprising right because although they'll have it's not quite like the iPhone error because there are two planes but they still have to get everything else in there but the idea that you would want those cells to be pretty powerful because this device, exactly. Under display is the one that fascinates me because that's, we've heard that that's been a desire of Apple for a while, and I know that there are other phones that have some of this stuff that they've managed to get

it behind the display. It is not something that we've sent on an iPhone. So how Apple would do something like that. Again, to meet their self-defined level of acceptable quality, that it's going to be interesting. Ming Chi Guo is reporting that Apple is looking to partner with Intel to produce future Apple silicon chips. So this is a partnership

that is currently being considered to start in 2027 and it will produce the base level M chip. So expect, say, the M7. Not the M7 Pro or M7 Max, just the M7. TSM would remain Apple's main partner.

producing everything else, all the iPhone chips and all of the professional and higher-powered Mac chips and iPad chips, if they were to put more than just the base in an iPad say. Politically, this is a move Apple would want to make because it supports the Made in America mentality that they've been trying to show more of. This would be a quite significant step forward for them, because this would be a part which is used in a lot of devices and a lot of like, if they start with an actual M7 chip would be in modern devices, because there is a scenario, right, where they could be like in 2027, they're going to make M5 chips or something that's going to go in older devices, right? So we're just assuming that it would be, let's

just say, the current processor at that point. But it also allows for Apple to start building a possible path to increase diversification away from TSM. So therefore, away from Taiwan and away from any potential threat from China in that regard and away from just one company that makes all their silicon. As a reminder, back in September, Bloomberg reported that Intel approached Apple to form a partnership to aid the company in building out

and securing their foundry business and also because they're in a bit of trouble, Intel. They were looking at an investment from Apple. Maybe this is part of that, or maybe it is it, right? It's not like an investment, but we're going to say give you this contract, wouldn't that be nice? What do you think about this? I think this is Intel,

this is Intel being a fab for someone else's chip design, which is a thing that famously Intel didn't want to do. But Intel's in dire straits right now. So this report is basically saying Apple will bring some chip business to Intel as a, you know, like as TSMC,

as a client that is making chips to Apple's design. So it's not, don't think of this as an Intel chip. No. Intel used to be, Intel chips used used to be Intel is a company that makes chips. The chips are designed by Intel. That was how it was. It's like Intel chips were Intel chips. They were made by Intel. They were designed by Intel. But what this is is breaking that apart into two businesses. Intel designed some chips of their own that they make. And then they also will use their, their fabs to make your chip that you design. and they can get some of that business. And the challenge there is, where are they in terms of their fabs versus TSM?

But one of the answers may be, well, yeah, we're not going to make our more advanced chips on Intel's lines because they can't make those chips to our specs. Their fabs have not reached the process power process advancement level that TSM has. It diversifies, like you said, it diversifies their, um, their suppliers. It's, right, like, TSM has been a great partner for Apple and I think continues to be, but it is, it is in Taiwan that there is some danger there. There's also a lot of political pressure to make more things in America. TSM has also, you know, got plants in the United States. I think this is just part of that spec.

So honestly, the thing that makes people raise their eyebrows about this is going to be, oh, Intel chips, A? But the truth is, if we said there is, you know, this famous, you know, other company that's a competitor to TSMC that also will make chips on demand, and they're based in America. And Apple has decided to throw some degree of chip manufacturing their way for some of their lower end chips. And it wasn't coupled with the history of Intel and Apple's relationship to Intel. I think this would be an interesting story from a strategy. US politics, diversification, risks of Taiwan kind of angle, but the Intel part gives it spiciness. It's just that it is, it's not relevant to the discussion. It really, the history of Intel has nothing to do what's going on. This is Intel as a fab partner using, you know, Apple's designs,

not an Intel chip in any way, like you would say that the Apple silicon chips are, you know, Oh, I'm running on the TSMM5. Nobody says that. I think the reason why I Prows raised to this, though, is that this was the chip that they would start with or would do. Like, I would, if you would have said to me, they're going to do

this, what are they going to make? I would say maybe an old A processor or maybe a modem chip or something like that. Like, if this report is to be assumed that it would be the kind of current gen base Mac chip

that is a little more than I necessarily would have expected as like their kind of first foray into this relationship if that's what they end up doing. I don't know. I mean, Macs and iPads are less important than the iPhone to Apple.

Their power needs and their constraints and all that are less than the ones that are in an iPhone. And we don't know about their about their roadmap for chips, it may also be that there are some very particular things

about whatever the A series is doing in these generations and that the M series doesn't have to do them so much because it is targeted at a larger device and that Intel's processes are good enough for that. Right? And then also, yes, this is like the C1 and the C1X where you want to try this out in a place where having a new partner,

new old partner, but a new partner is not that big a deal. My guess, too, is also the base model M chips go in everything. So if this is a dual source, and if TSM is also making these and Intel is making them, then, you know, it's just you get volume from both. And the other way to look at it is, yeah, maybe the M7, unlike previous chip generations for the Mac, maybe the M7 generation really is on two entirely different processes

and the M7 is just not as advanced and it's not as good as the M7 Pro and Max which are made on modern cutting edge TSM lines that would be another way to differentiate the product lines so you know I think Intel is no stranger to making complex chips right the Intel fabs are going to be able to make a complex chip so in some ways I could argue this makes more sense because it's not in the iPhone

and it's going to be, you know, markedly not the high end of the apple silicon chips. And so maybe that's good enough. And it's a decision that they're choosing to make because they want to make it, not because they're forced to make it. So if something goes wrong, TSM will be waiting there, ready to make the chips. Right? Like, this isn't like they're not being pushed into this, at this point. There's no, this is like a choice that they will make.

So if they ever do get pushed, they will have some relationship, some technology building. together. I mean, they're getting pushed in the sense that they know which way the wind is blowing. Even if the wind isn't pushing them, they know which way the wind is blowing. And diversifying is a good idea. And having an American partner like Intel, which, I mean, there is a real strong argument to be made. And you can read all about it in a bunch of posts on strategy that Ben Thompson has made. But there's a really strong argument to be made that the United States in general, the government and everybody else in the tech industry in general, should want Intel to continue to be or to invest to be even better a capable domestic chip fab

because of the risks of Taiwan geographically. And that TSM is trying to do stuff in the United States, but there are cultural issues there because it really is still the people from Taiwan who are coming over to supervise all of that. And so that there's a geopolitical reason for Intel to exist and also I would say more broadly it's really good to have competition and having TSM be the only ones who do this. And Samsung makes chips. Samsung is another one. Samsung is not South Korea isn't as vulnerable as Taiwan is, but still there is there's a lot going on here. So saying we got another partner. They're not investing in nothing, right? This is not we're going to make a Mac Pro factory and make 100 Mac Pros or whatever. This is a real partnership that helps

Intel kind of be there as a bulwark against bad things happening in the chip business, while also acknowledging that TSM is the best at what they do and that the high-end chips need to be made at TSMC. For now. This episode is brought to you by Delete Me. Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breederate is common enough to make everybody vulnerable. The bad news is data brokers can make a profit off your data, but the good news is you can protect your privacy with Delete Me. The New York Times Wirecutter is named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services,

and I will say I am a very happy customer myself. Delete Me made it so easy for me to go into the system, and they give you like a questionnaire essentially, like, hey, what is the information that you want to be removed from the internet? and you can just put in what you want them to remove. They're not saying, like, you know, fill in every single form and we're going to remove all your professional email addresses. No, they're not going to do that.

You're like, here is my personal stuff, the stuff that I don't want to be out there, and then they're going to go out there, and they're going to take care of it for you. Because it's possible to be done. Like, your information, if a data broker has it, they have to comply if they get asked for it to be removed. But the problem is, how would I or you as an individual,

be able to find and track down all of these various companies. Like I get a report from Delete Me and they tell me like, hey, these are the places that we've got things removed from. These are the ones we're monitoring. This is what's in progress. It's just like name after name of these companies that I've never heard before. I would never hear on my life otherwise and I would never know how to find them. But Delete Me takes care of all of this for you so you don't have to and you have that peace of mind. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up right now for Delete Me. We have a special offer for listeners.

of this show. You can get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to join delete me.com slash upgrade 20 and use the promo code upgrade 20 at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to J-O-I-N-D-E-L-E-T-E-M-E dot com slash upgrade 20 and enter the code upgrade 20 at checkout. That's join delete me.com slash upgrade 20 and the code upgrade 20. Now thanks to delete me for their support of this show and relay. It is time for some ask, upgrade questions. First question comes from Mark who says, Do you think that Apple should add a configurable button

to the Apple remote for Apple TV, similar to the action button? As someone who frequently toggles subtitles on and off, I would love to have a dedicated button to do so. I could also see people who have a preferred specific streaming service or finding utility, searching utility, in setting of a quick action to launch that app.

What do you think about that, Jason? Not do you think they would because it probably wouldn't but would you like it if they did? I don't know. I mean, more buttons on the remote. I don't know. I think there's already a side button

that uses Siri and you know, you could, I just don't know how smart that hardware is, the idea that you could maybe double tap it to do something different. However, I will say there is an accessibility shortcut on Apple TV that lets you triple click the home button to do something. And one of the things is subtitles. So what I would say is I don't think Apple needs to add more buttons on the iPhone, on the Apple remote.

I think that having software that lets you set shortcuts, yeah, double tap the Siri button on the side maybe. But I think there is already, because I do it sometimes by accident. There is an accessibility setting that lets you toggle system-wide subtitles on and off. So maybe use that. That's pretty cool. That's a good top tip. That's a good top tip. Yeah, off the top of my head, so I don't know exactly where it is.

But I absolutely have that set up on my remote so that if I do a triple, I think it's triple home button, it turns on the captions. Yeah. Love it. That's really good. I like it. I think so. I think so. We'll follow up if it is different.

But I would say that that's my, in short, that's my answer, which is I'd rather just Apple have configurability for things rather than that remote get even more buttons on it. Levi asks, given the success of Ted Lassau and the F1 movie and Apple's new broadcast deal with the F1, what do you think are the chances of something like a Ted Lassow and the F1 movie? what do you think are the chances of something like a Ted Lasso meets F1 series on Apple TV? So I have a broader question here. Okay. We can't really answer that.

But it sparked a broader question for me. Do we have expectations that they will create more content around the sport of around F1? Yes. So they already have in the works a documentary about Lewis Hamilton's life, which he is participating in.

They announced this, I think, at the same time that they announced the F1 movie. but maybe this was Is it a musical? He is Lewis Hamilton. That's how it goes. That's how it goes.

Yeah, the Gitlin men well involved. So they will have this. Maybe this is something that like they've decided to push out a little bit longer because it would make a lot of sense to kind of put these two things together. Maybe Lewis is waiting for a better chance in his fortune as a driver. It would be nice if they could wrap this up with the eighth world championship, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen in the near future, unfortunately. you know, we spoke about...

He's not throwing away his shot, though, so... I mean, he actually, unfortunately, might hurt. You know, we spoke about, you know, a drive-to-surve-like type show. Well, I think they can't do that because they've got Drive to Survive on Netflix and that's a good deal for F-1 and I think as long as it's a good deal

for Netflix, it'll stay there and if Netflix is over it, then I think they'll basically do the same thing at Apple. But I absolutely think that they will create in addition to the F1 movie and that there's going to be a sequel probably to that

I would be shocked if there were not many more things involving F1 especially if this is a long the idea is this is a long-term partnership that's going to grow

beyond the U.S. I think that they will continue to invest in some content here. It's really interesting because you're kind of thinking about like would the, you know,

Zach and Jamie who run Apple's whole operation here for entertainment it's almost like they well I guess they already do but it's like you really have a sports division it's like an Apple sports division inside it

and what their priorities are are a little bit different so the idea that they would have some sports content around it that would be more interesting and viewable and honestly viewable for the rest of the world for F1 fans around the world even if they're not a perfect fit to Apple

you could even argue that the more F1 content Apple has all around the world, the more natural it would feel when Apple buys your country's F1 rights, right, is that they will have already primed the pump a little bit. So I would not be surprised. My guess is more like sports docs than scripted series set around F1. Although I'll tell you, if I were a writer who is pitching shows in Hollywood, I would be pitching auto race themed

scripted to Apple right? And I'm sure they already are but like I would absolutely do that. Like I would I think maybe Apple is interested in hearing some pitches about

for comedies or dramas that are set around F1 in some way. Yeah, they might say no to all of them but I think it would be worth a shot. We spoke about this in the drug. They make one of these for soccer oh sorry everyone

one of these for football they make one of these for golf right like it's okay it's okay by the way soccer is short for association football and it's a term invented in the UK that was that it's funny soccer is an English word this is why we worked so well together

is you knew that was what I meant that was what I meant but yeah they already make two of these they could make a third and it be about F1 you know although to be honest the F1 movie is essentially that

I've just realized crash out guy you know like comes back to the sport I've just realized I didn't thought this until now

Brad Pitt it is F1 the movie yeah that's what he is and that's funny you could absolutely do a so the advantage that a series

would have a scripted series is that you could take the season and all the drama of the season and spread it out in a way

that a movie can't So the idea that every episode is another stop along the way. And there's more, like, like, I mean, Stick sort of gets there at the end. And Ted Lassau was definitely like that in the different matches that would happen. It wasn't quite the same, but it was similar. So you could, you could totally do that. And it wouldn't shock me if we hear that Apple is actually planning a, you know, a dramatic series that is set among, you know, F1 with F1 as a partner that has a,

civic twist on it, but it's also going to be shooting at real F1 events and using those as locations and it's globe trotting and it's got a varied multinational cast and all that. And yes, it does sound like F1 the movie, but this is different because there'll be some spin on it that makes it sound different and this is F1 the show. I've got a pitch. Right? I have a pitch because I think it would be really expensive, right, to try and do a show set in F1. So my pitch is it is a show about a teenager who wants to become an F1 driver. So they're racing in the lower levels. Well, they start a go-karting because that's where they all start.

That's kind of a Ted lasso in the sense, too, of kind of like taking the team up. Yep. As a rise through the rings. I agree. Also, depending on the relationships, I wouldn't run it. I wouldn't put it past them that what they do is they say we would like a TV show set in the world of F1 the movie and bring in the producers of F1 the movie

and have them work together so that when F1 the movie part two comes out one of the other things that they announce is that there's a F1 TV show I have another pitch I'm a pitch machine It's a workplace comedy set at the factory where they make the car

sure that's my second pitch I like that I mean I don't know that Maybe maybe I think every every Apple show now We'll have a note in it Which is could F1 be involved in this somehow

Yes Um You know slow horses Could could F1 Someone steals an F1 car On the slow horses That could

Could Jackson Lamb have a race toy race car on his desk Or could he have a line Where he says Oh You know my favorite racer Is Louis Hamilton Maybe. I don't know. Anyway, I think it's an interesting idea, Levi, no matter, like, I think we'll see more content about F1. I think I'm confident in that. Whether they will go the scripted route beyond the F1 movies, I think depends on the pitch. But it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Greg Wright-Sin says, one of the features I look forward to the most with MacOS Tahoe was migrating many of my menu bar apps to control. center. It doesn't seem, though, that many of the apps that I use have implemented this ability. Is there something that I'm missing? Or it's just a case of it being a lower priority for developers. Liquid Glass was a much higher priority. I think over time, Mac app developers will investigate this. My understanding is that the API was kind of half formed and that there's more to be done here. I think this is a very long-term thing. You should not expect that there will suddenly be an update and all of your apps that are menu bar apps will suddenly use Control Center. I think it's going to take time. But I do think that in the long run, this is Apple

saying, we have given you a new, a brand new API that adds a lot of functionality for you and the user in terms of where your stuff can live in the menu bar and in control center. and that my hope is that over time developers will adopt it and that developers will also give Apple feedback about what's missing in it so that maybe the API could be adjusted. But I'll give you an example, like I have a Swift bar, which lets me generate these things that are up in my menu bar

for stuff like my weather and my solar, and they're running scripts or, you know, whether it's shortcuts or Apple scripts or shell scripts to do all this, And they live in the menu bar, which is great. But in the long run, would I like the option to also have those instead run in a control center as a control? Because I think it's called the Controls API. Yes, I would. That would be a nice thing, sort of like how I have scriptable scripts on iOS that run in widgets.

I would love to have that. But it takes engineering work over time. And the good news is every Mac running, you know, Tahoe can do this. So going forward, I do hope that Mac apps will embrace this unique thing about MacOS, and that will be great. But I think we're talking probably many years as this goes on. But I would imagine that in five years, menu bar apps on the Mac will look a lot different now because Apple has kind of created this API. And if you don't know, if you didn't read my Tahoe review or you don't remember, like, it's not just control center now. You can add multiple drop-down menus in the menu bar, fill.

of controls using the controls API, either from Apple or for third parties. So it's basically a whole menu bar manager. So you can say like oh, I want to add one and I'm going to pick this icon and it's going to put all my I'm going to put all my hope stuff in there. Like you can do that, which

is awesome because that's Apple building an Appley way to approach organizing stuff that you want around in your menu bar to be looked at either on the menu bar or in a sub menu. So eventually we'll get there Greg

but it's going to take years I think and also there will definitely be apps so we'll just never do it for one reason or another which is a shame yeah I know it's one of those things where Apple's not going to make it easy on them to like be in control center as just a generic menu bar

item although at some point it would be nice if they did like they let the users just sort of say no you're not going to live out there anymore you're going to be in this little what they really ought to do is have a notch detector or even just for a small screen, a small screen detector

that automatically generates a little control center kind of holding bin whenever there's overflow. That's probably a feature they should. Hey, hey, MacOS people who are listening. That's a good idea for a 27 feature is if my menu bar items collide with the menu

coming from the other side or the notch, how about an automatically generated control center drop down that all of those menu bar items just get shunted into. That would be pretty cool. So maybe we'll get there. I will say for the developers of all of those bar apps that are out there, because there's Swift Bar, which I use, but it was originally different,

and now there are, like, multiple ones of it because, like, the one that Swift Bar, X Bar, I think it was, got, like, revived. anyway, somebody needs to venture into the control's API because another fun place to put this stuff would be in there and not just using the old menu bar. So somebody should go do that. That would be awesome.

I would do that. I would love to put some of the stuff that's in my menu bar in a little drop-down instead. That would be fun. I mean, and surely, I mean, I say surely, but like there are so many weird workarounds on the Mac that like it feels like someone could create something that would do that even though they're not supposed to be there

like you could find a way to do it it's literally there right i mean that's the funny thing is that the API is there somebody would just have to do that work and and uh and if it's if i'll just i'm just throwing out challenges here like i think these apps are both open source too um swift bar and and uh x bar like if they're not going to do it you know you could contribute or you could fork it and do it but like i think

there's probably a good mac utility that just does this, that is like Swiftbar, but uses the controls API instead. I think that's interesting. This feels like a job for John Syracusa, honestly. I don't know if he cares about the menu bar so much, but we'll see. My response was wrong. I should have been like, ah. You'll make a whole custom dock, but he won't touch the menu bar, you know? Yeah, he doesn't want. You don't have to worry about it if you have a pro display XDR. You can fit everything. Does he have an XDR? I think he does, right? My memory says he does. Yeah, I think he does. That sounds right.

Outmoded old technology, then he won't give up. Although, I would love, honestly, I would love the scenario in which he bought a Mac Pro, but didn't buy the display. That also, I mean, I'm sure he did, but my memory says that, but also it would be hilarious if he didn't. And it would also feel like something John would do, maybe, right?

It's like, well, I've already got the perfect monitor. Why would I change it? But I don't think the perfect monitor existed. If you would like to send in a question for us to answer or in a future episode of the show, just go to UpgradeFeedback.com and you can send us in an ask Upgrade question, a snail talk question,

or any feedback or follow-up that you would like. Thank you to our members who support us of Upgrade Plus. Go to Get UpgradePlus.com, and with the code 2025 holidays, you could get 20% off your first year for new subscribers. You can find us on YouTube by searching for Upgrade Podcast, and you can watch a show on video.

Each and every week, you could see that I'm wearing my Ted Lasso hoodie, uh, sweatshirt today. I bought Apple Park a few years ago, which is one of my favorites. It's when they made the partnership with Nike and they were made really nice rather than when Warner Bros. are doing it on their own, and they were a disaster. Just bad, bad products. And you can see a Mike discovered there's a Micronaut behind me.

Yes. They're sitting on top of a G4 cube. There's a Microtron up there. Yeah. It's always been there. I made Riverside Window big before we started the show today and I saw the Micronolite behind him back there so you can go see it too. thank you to delete me

Gusto and Sentry for their support of this week's episode but as always most of all thank you for listening don't forget Upgrades dot vote

putting your nominations we'll be back next week until then say goodbye Jason Snow goodbye my curly