Upgrade - 60: Very Nice Button

Episode Date: October 27, 2015

It’s an exciting week: Myke gets a new Retina iMac and all the Magic peripherals, and both Jason and Myke buy "Star Wars" tickets and the new Apple TV! Plus we do some Force Touch follow-up and answer your questions in #askupgrade.

from relay fm this is upgrade and this is episode number 60 today's show is brought to you by the great people over at braintree igloo and mail route my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by mr jason snell hello mr mike hur are you, sir? Good to be back. In the intervening time between this episode and the previous episode, we saw each other. Yes, it's like we recorded many episodes of Upgrade, but nobody can hear them. No, we didn't record them. We just performed them. Performed them, yes.

Privately. We were, you and Stephen and underscore David Smith, were on Clockwise last week. That was a great episode, actually. That was a lot of fun, and it was the only podcast were on Clockwise last week. That was a great episode, actually. That was a lot of fun and it was the only podcast recorded by us at Release Notes. We didn't do a liftoff, we didn't do an upgrade, just that Clockwise. And boy, did that

feel good, to not have to worry about the scheduling whilst on a little trip. But that was a nice episode of Clockwise. If you have not heard Clockwise before, you should start episode 109. Yeah, that's a great place to start. There's very little continuity in Clockwise.

You can just dip in. If you have 30 minutes, you could listen to it. Indeed. It's easy. Easy. Easy peasy. Should we do some follow-up? I think that would be great.

So last week we were talking a lot about Force Touch, and me and you were both basically lamenting the development of OS X in this regard, and saying it seemed like the tools weren't there and or the activity wasn't really there. And Abby wrote a great email to us, and Abby wrote in, and they included a bunch of different scenarios that could be used. Abby is like a power user power user and i actually exchanged email with him about this because uh and i think i think it's really interesting he so what he said is that he wants he wants to be fast and do things as quickly as possible and i thought it was really

interesting like he doesn't like the fact that there are some of the short cut cuts where you kind of like click for a little bit and then let go and wait and then something happens like to rename a file it's like it takes too long it's very it's sort of john syracuse alike it's like i don't want to wait i just want it to happen right now right um and so i get where where he's coming from um but uh but what's interesting is the things what the the the point was oh you guys are selling force touch on os 10 short look at all these things it does. And we can go through them. But I think I actually mentioned all of these, but we can get into that. Do you want to go through the list here with me? Yeah, I want to mention a couple of these because I pulled out some that I thought were quite

interesting. So, for example, you can Force Touch a document name to rename it. example you can force touch a document name to rename it right right right i mean you can also just click on it for a for like a second and let go and the rename box will appear or you can press return which is what i do i find that a lot of a lot of my mouse gestures that i think of as mouse gestures are actually mouse and keyboard gestures um and you know it nice that you can do that entirely with a mouse although although then you have to type the name. So your fingers are on the keyboard anyway. But you can do that. And I did not know that that one forced open the rename in the Finder immediately. I didn't realize that it did that.

So that is a nice little tip. I don't notice that because, you know, like I said, I'm selecting and hitting return. And that's muscle memory from a long time ago. But that's a good one. You can quick look a document by just pushing down into it. Although I have found in just testing out and playing around with it today, when you use column view like I do, what you end up mostly doing is activating the renaming of the file name.

Yeah, right, because it's different whether you force touch on the name or on the icon. Yeah, and obviously the majority of the kind of clickable area is the name of the file. In that view, yeah. But it's possible if you don't click in there, but you can do that. And that one is one of those that I roll my eyes at a little bit because, again, for me, you know, you can do that or you could just press the space bar, which,'s just a little it's just a little different gesture to to click and then and then tap a key versus not but fair point so you can do a type of peak as well so like you have peak and pop on ios so in if you if you force touch on a link in any web kit view so slack for example counts as this it kind of shows you a preview of the web page yeah and this this is in

the category of most of the ones that obby mentioned which is what i i referred to last week as the three finger click shortcut apple at some point added this three finger click which is basically like a bunch of extra stuff that isn't you know isn't in a control click and they wanted another gesture for it and so um on systems that don't have a force touch trackpad, it is the, and have a trackpad, it's the three finger click. So that, that web page preview is, is the repurposed three finger click that I mentioned last week. On a word, you get the dictionary definition on an address,

anything with the Apple data detectors technology, that's got like an address will show maps. That's all coming from that same thing. It's the repurpose three-finger click gesture. So this is the thing, right? So there is some stuff here, but I think this is where the problem lies in that on iOS, a lot of the stuff that is behind force touch is stuff we couldn't get to before. It's stuff that was created. It's stuff that didn't exist. But on OS X, it is more of a repurposing of features that are already there and are already perfectly accessible using the tools that currently exist. So I think you end up with two issues.

One, I'm not going to do most of these because my muscle memory is in the other way of doing things. And the other is it's not very exciting because it's not enhancing functionality in any way. It's just giving me a different way to trigger certain functionality. Yeah. Also, this goes back to, again, we did talk about this yesterday or last week, but it's follow up. This is the challenge that on the iPhone, what you're talking about is secondary. It's a secondary form of input. And here we already have the keyboard and we have a right click.

And I mean, there's so many things that have already been wired in. And I think the most important thing is that we already have a secondary click and it's the right click or control click, or I do it all two finger click now because I've been using the trackpad for so long. But that, so long but that so that means that all this other stuff you know Apple did come up with some of these features and and you see them and these are the ones that Avi mentioned a lot of them in this three finger click thing that that uh that they created um or or or tap but um they are all it's just kind of a collection of extra stuff because the main thing is you get a contextual menu with all the most important things when you do your secondary click.

So this is this tertiary click that, I don't know, this is, I mean, this is what I was trying to say last week. And if I wasn't as clear, then just to restate it a little bit, the challenge on the Mac is finding, like, what is the unifying principle of what a force touch, a force click does on the Mac is finding like what what is the unifying principle of what a force a force touch a force click does on the Mac and have it available and have it be understandable and unified and and and the challenge there is that you also have a right click and that you can't count on force click being a thing so I just think it's a it's a work in progress. But while there are these things that have been around for a while for this third click that Apple kind of introduced for the trackpad a few years ago, the challenge is that it's kind of all over the place. So that's my frustration here is that I'm not sure there's... I don't want to say that it's easy because it's not. It was

much easier in that way to put it in ios because ios could really use a second kind of interaction there on the mac we've got and we've already got an alternate click and we've already got keyboard shortcuts so you know there it's not an easy problem to solve but it i've never thought that the three finger shortcut stuff made was really unified in any way and it seemed to only be limited to a few features i just realized something you know we were complaining and bemoaning the naming issue 3d touch and force touch it's actually three names right force touch force click and 3d touch well force click isn't that's just a a thing you do in a force touch trackpad, right? I think force touch is still the feature name. And then there's an action name, which is the force click. It's confusing because I was, we were debating this when we were updating my book about photos for Mac.

photos on iOS, and we're debating what the verb is for when you 3D touch something. Are you 3D touching it, or are you using 3D touch to press on something as opposed to tap? It looks like in a lot of Apple's documentation, they actually do use the word press, and it seems to be differentiated from tap, but it's weird. It's weird stuff. So there's a lot going on here, like what's the feature called? weird stuff. So, so there's a lot going on here. Like what's the feature called? What's the verb that describes when you use it? Um, it's all over the place. We're still figuring it out. I think all of us. Yeah. I just got sent some breaking news, Jason Snell. Oh yeah. Google is bringing podcasts to play music. Well, we've been, we've been, uh, talking about that for quite a while now.

Well, there were lots of rumors that they were working on podcast stuff because they're behind. And I was telling somebody, I think it might have even been at release notes when we were talking about the fears of a gatekeeper in podcasting, the idea that Apple built this thing. And I think all the stats show that iOS devices are vastly more likely to listen to podcasts

than Android devices. And one of the reasons is that Apple's been pushing podcasting for quite a while. So very interesting. A little real-time breaking news. Something for us to look out for. Yeah. And deal with and change all of our processes.

Hooray! Well, hopefully not too much, right? I hope so. Hopefully this is just another directory, which I think would be great. Yeah, that's what I hope it is. And I hope that they are completely compliant of all of the standards that everybody else is using. Because Apple don't ask you to do anything specific in the feeds, for example. They're very good at that.

There's stuff you can do. You can do extra things, but you don't need to do any of them. So I hope that it remains to be that way. Yeah. Worth the wait and see. So maybe we'll follow up on that a little bit later. I wanted to do a few pieces of Back to the Future follow-up. All right.

So we totally called the USA Today cover. So on Thursday, October 22nd, which made sense because the newspaper was the day after the day that Marty and the Doc went to. So they arrived on October 21st, 2015, but the newspaper was the next day's newspaper so on october 22nd 2015 in the real world usa today did a wrap of their newspaper with the front page of the usa today from back to the future 2 and then on the back page they had an ad for the 30th anniversary edition and also for the michael j fox foundation i was luckily in the united states of america and i got one and i'm very very happy that i have one because this is a really nice kind of little memento of the movie

but I thought it was funny because we said they should do this it would be great if they did this and then they did it yeah that's cool we called it we were all at the release notes conference when this day happened which was kind of fun you put some slides

in your presentation you were giving the presentation that day so that which was kind of fun. You put some slides in your presentation. You were giving a presentation that day. So that was a lot of fun too. Yeah, we did. There was a couple of people were asking about the mic at the movies feed on The Incomparable and what the difference is. And I guess we should restate that,

that again, the idea is that we're not going to have new stuff in that feed. That feed's just going to be the excerpts about movies from relay shows where you're talking with me and Casey and who knows who else, if ever, about movies. And they'll all get excerpted later, over 30 days later, at the Mike at the Movies feed at The Incomparable. But it's not meant to be like a new podcast where you watch a movie every week. It's literally like a place you can go if you just want to listen. And I've heard from people who said,

oh yeah, I just listened to this one. Because I think sometimes you miss it or you're listening to a tech podcast and then you get 90 minutes in and they start talking about a movie and you're like, yeah, well, I don't have time to listen to this right now. So having it as another place you can go on demand

or not digging back into our archives where we're talking about news from a year ago. And talking about The Incarn incomparable on the way home, um, on the plane, I listened to episode 41 where, uh, you all discussed,

it was, was it you, uh, Dan Moran, was it Dan Moran, Dan Frakes, Lex and Serenity. Yeah.

Um, and you spoke, you did like an episode about all three, which is quite funny back to the future movies. So still early on in the You spoke, you did like an episode about all three, which is quite funny, Back to the Future movies. So still early on in The Incomparable when you did three movies in one episode. And I really enjoyed listening to it. But the thing that I found the funniest about it all

was your opinions were the same. To the point that you even said, I can't remember what it was, but you said some of the same stuff. Sure. Which is just fantastic, right? That your your opinion maintained my opinion hasn't changed in the last four years no um and it just really made me smile but it's a great episode um and i enjoyed it very much and it was fun to hear everybody talk about this stuff you know i assume that i

assume that you experience this when you're editing podcasts that you're listening to a conversation and you have you have this thought of what you think about what was just said and then you hear your own voice on the podcast say exactly that i i that happens to me all the time or i laugh and i hear myself laughing the same laugh at the same time as i'm playing it back because i've responded to that statement in exactly the same way uh it just you know i did it four days ago and i did it again when i played it back it's funny and weird yeah and talking about things that i did on the plane back to the future related uh i'm i'm i'm like 15 minutes away from finishing i need to finish it uh a fantastic documentary that i backed on kickstart to call back in time which is a documentary about

um it's kind of interviews with the cast and creators of back to the future in part one of the documentaries like a two-part documentary but it's all in one part right they just split the two hours into two one hours or whatever um and then the other part is like about the fans of the movie and it's just fantastic if you are a back to the future fan you should go and rent or buy this this movie it was really really good and i enjoyed it immensely so i double thumbs up on that one all right i have to check it out yeah you really should it's fantastic it really really is fantastic and now it's it's out it's you can rent it you can buy it um and you just go to their website which is back in time film.com and you'll see in there the secret

cinema event they did that i went to in london they they shot some footage of that so you get to see what that's like and they did a good job of capturing just how special a thing that was um so i really thoroughly recommend it it's a excellent watch all right i think we've come to the end of follow-up for this week so let's take our first break and thank our friends over at Braintree for sponsoring this week's episode. Code for easy online payments. If you're a mobile app developer, you should be checking out Braintree.

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Thank you so much to Braintree for their support of this show. So Jason, in between our last episode and this episode star wars tickets were released oh yeah did you buy any uh yes i did i actually it's funny i had to think about it because i didn't when everybody was freaking out about star wars tickets um oh they're on, they're on sale. They're on sale. I can't get them. The site's crashed. I went and I put in our zip code, and it brought me to a page that said, well, it's playing in downtown San Francisco, and it's playing in Emeryville, and it's playing in, I don't know, Daly City or something like that. Not where I live.

Just things that are close-ish, but not where I live. I was like, all right, well, something's going on here. I'm not going to go, you know, take my family into the city on a Thursday night to see a movie. That's not going to happen. A lot of traffic, parking problems, things like that. It's not going to happen. The next morning, I went back on the site just thinking, well, you never know. I've seen that happen in the past where they add sort of other theaters later. And sure enough, the big single screen movie theater reputed to be George Lucas's favorite movie theater here in Marin County had been added. And the Thursday at 7 p.m. show was available. And so I bought four tickets.

So the family is going. My daughter has finals the next day. I don't care. We're I bought four tickets. So the family is going. My daughter has finals the next day. I don't care. We're all going to go. We'll be home by 9.30. It's fine. She'll get some sleep. If she's going to need to do her studying before we go to the movie, that's what's going to have to happen. But yeah, we're going to do it. So the way I figure it, I'm going to see it on the 17th. But because of time zones and many other reasons, you will be seeing it before me. Yes. Well, not only is it time zones, it is coming out a day earlier in the UK. Right.

And so I'm going to see it on 11.30am on the 17th. Can you go see it on the night of the 16th? Did you have that option and then you bypassed it? We can go at midnight, but I don't want to do that because I don't need to. Well, technically that's not the 16th and that's the 17th. And it comes out here in the United States starting at 7 p.m. on the 17th. So I think technically it comes out in both countries on the 17th. Yeah, we're seeing it at 7 p.m. on the night of the 17th. Maybe we can see.

I'm going to find out if it's possible to buy tickets earlier. on the night of the 17th. Maybe we can see. I'm going to find out if it's possible to buy tickets earlier. Because the midnight showings have proven so popular that they've started showing them earlier. So now you actually get most, for a lot of these wide releases that they expect a lot of people to come and see, they extend the weekend essentially to Thursday night

and that they actually put in two showings sometimes on Thursday night for these blockbusters to extend the weekend through, you know, it's Thursday night and all day Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So, yeah, we're going at 7 p.m. on Thursday the 17th. Well, that's interesting. However, kind of the official release is the 17th there and the 18th here, yeah. But I will be seeing it at 11.30am on the 17th. Yeah, well, you'll have me beat by, like, a lot. Yeah, many, many hours.

By, like, 14 hours or something like that. So, like, I could see it earlier, but, like, I'm not... Yeah, so it starts at midnight showings here on the 17th. That's when we get it. So you can watch it at 0001 on the set on thursday the 17th it doesn't seem like that there's any showings on the 16th um so my feeling is i want to see it in my local cinema so it doesn't take many hours out of my day it's not the best cinema but it's fine and if i go at 11 30 a.m on a th Thursday afternoon or whatever day it is, Wednesday or Thursday afternoon, there's not going to be anybody else in the cinema, right?

Or there'll be very, very few people. So I'm just going to go and I'm going to see it and then I'm going to be happy. So that's when I'm going. I'm going at 11.30am on the 17th. And I'm going at that time in the morning because I want the maximum amount of time to gloat online that i've seen the movie uh without having to watch it at midnight because if i watch it at midnight i might be tired when i'm watching it and i really want to be like engrossed um and i've already booked my second viewing because adina is going to be away she's going to be back home um and

when she comes home from romania for christmas we're going to go see it together on New Year's Day. Wow, you have planned ahead. Well, she wants to see it, and I figure I might as well book tickets, because I have no idea how busy it's going to be, right? Like, it could really pick up. It's just funny that you've bought tickets for a movie that doesn't... a showing of a movie that's not for more than two months.

Yeah. But, you know, I have tickets for December as well, mid-December, and it's not yet November. So it's pretty crazy. What a world we live in. Yes, it is funny when you think that I've already bought tickets for a movie in 2016, right? Yeah.

You might have a problem. Yeah, the problem is love, Jason. Talking about love. Right. You might have a problem. Yeah. The problem is love, Jason. Talking about love. Yes. I have a new computer. Yes. It's time.

It is time to talk about my iMac. As my Mac Pro sits here, very sad. So I set it up on uh sunday i started the setup process when i got home from indianapolis um because i figured i might as well just do it so i i was doing a migra i did migration assistant i did it by thunderbolt which is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. It migrated, I don't know, like half a terabyte or something in about 45 minutes. But I have to say, though,

I have to say, this is my current bugbear at the moment, is Apple setup processes. And I have another problem here, Jason. The majority of apps that I downloaded from the App Store, when I tried to launch them, I was told they were damaged and had to be re-downloaded. Oh, yeah, that's that same thing. Yep. And you know what you have to do? You have to delete the app, put in your password, just drag it to the trash, put in your password,

and then re-download it. But it doesn't tell you that, right? It just says, damage re-downloaded from the App Store. So you go to the App Store, and you can't re-download it. But it doesn't tell you that. It just says, damage, re-download from the App Store. So you go to the App Store, and you can't re-download it. It just says open, right? Because it's already installed. So it's like another thing where it's like, this is another problem that shouldn't happen, and Apple don't give you any kind of guidance as to how you need to fix the issue.

So I had to just delete. I've been doing this over the last couple of days, because as I'm launching apps, right? like, oh, it's damaged. I was like, great, so delete this one, put in my password to delete it, go to the App Store, re-download it. It maintains all of my settings and stuff, which is interesting.

I'm not really sure how that's happening. If I delete the app, shouldn't everything go with it? But I don't want to think about that. But that's just an annoyance that I've had. So that is basically the only annoyance that I have with this machine. And it's definitely an OS X problem. It's not an issue with the iMac. The screen is incredible.

I've been using Retina machines for a while, so the Retina doesn't blow me away, right? Because I know what that's like. Right. But it's a lot of retina, though. It's a whole lot of retina. That's what I love about it. So it's the resolution.

So I have it on the one up from best. No, I have it. So, you know, if you've got five settings isn't there yeah yes there's the if you choose scaled there's the default setting which is not scaled and then there's two larger text settings and two two more space settings yeah so i have it on the in the middle between default and more space right so it looks like 2880 by 1620, it says. Yeah. We'll go with that. That is one of the two settings I use.

Sometimes I use that setting. Most of the time I stay with the default, but sometimes I feel like I have too much going on and I want a little more space. Why do you go with default? Because I'm 45 years old and having everything be a little bit smaller has its disadvantages. Yep. And because on a 27-inch computer, I don't often feel like I need more space.

Also, a lot of what I'm doing, you know, is writing things. Those are little windows with text in them. They don't need to be, you know, I don't need huge amounts of space for stuff like that so you know i i go back and forth but i find myself just staying with the default a lot mostly because i don't feel like i need more space most of the time so um in the chat room uh skimen has asked about the specs i thought i'd just run over quickly what I did get. So, 27-inch Retina 5K iMac with a 4GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. I'll just run over that again. Very happy with that.

over that again very happy with that um one of the things that i've noticed with the screen which is fantastic is how great it makes split screen mode because you could just have because the apps are just so large right in full screen you put especially with the setting that i have you put them into split screen and you can see so much of the content, right? Which is fantastic. And that also, in a funny way, has made me excited for the iPad Pro because I can see the benefit of like two basically full screen applications side by side.

Because I always felt like with my Mac Pro and also on my Retina MacBook that I could use apps side by side but they were always felt constrained in some way but on this machine it they do not feel constrained in any way i feel like i have two full-size apps side by side which is great yeah i i don't know sometimes sometimes there are certain cases where i feel like it's it's good um but most of the time i feel like that the screen is so big that i don't need I don't need to go into split view because first off I could probably have more than two windows open like it's such a big screen the two windows

open at once isn't that's sort of like too much even then that you really need to subdivide it further and most of the ways I work I've got more than more than two things open occasionally I'll find a really good use for it but um I feel like it's for me I'm more likely to do it on a small screen because two you know two things side by side on an 11 inch MacBook Air um it makes sense and and you know when I have two things side by side on my on my retina iMac I think I could have more things here that makes sense to me yeah I mean I use full screen though right like I am a full screen person yeah so that's why this makes more sense to me so like I have it does it does make more sense than full screen on the 27 inch so I have chrome in full screen constantly right um and if I'm filling in maybe

a google doc or something or when I was doing our show notes today, I put notes on the right side where I'd been taking some notes, and then I had Chrome on the left side, and I was just copying and pasting in some things. I am one of the full-screen people. I like to have things in full screen. I have a lot less in full screen, pretty much the only app that is always – well, I have two apps always in full screen, Google Chrome and iTunes. And I will sometimes throw something else into full screen.

But this is since I started using the Mac Pro with the 25-inch monitor. I started to put less into full screen than before. So, like, I have two desktops. One, which is my audio desktop, which has all the recording stuff and where I edit. And then I have my kind of work desktop, which has all of my other apps in. But I do like to use full screen. Like for example, when I was working on my presentation, Keynote was in full screen.

When I'm in an app like that, I do quite like it. The speakers are fantastic. Coming from the Mac Pro, which it basically feels like it has an iPhone speaker in it. The Mac Pro speakers are horrific, the internal ones. They are really quiet. They sound terrible. Obviously, with the Mac Pro not being directly in front of you, it always sounds like it's to the side or underneath.

Depending on wherever you put the Mac Pro, because it's not the screen, the speaker is always going to sound like that. The sound is always coming from wherever the speaker is is which is usually not right in front of you. And I know that a lot of people plug their computers into other speakers, but I don't have that and don't really want that. But the speaker on this thing is incredibly loud and it sounds really, really good. And I'm very, very happy about that.

One, something that I also really good. And I'm very, very happy about that. One something that I also really like that probably nobody cares about, the power button is way easier to reach. It feels good to click. I do shut my Mac down every day. Yeah, me too. I'll be gone. That'd be crazy. Yeah, I don't know why people

I know a lot of people do that, like just leave them sleeping or whatever, but I don't like to do it. I just like to turn it off. Just turn it off, and I'm happy. No, it feels good. It starts up really fast. Yes, it doesn't even matter. It really doesn't matter to me. And I just think, just turn it off.

I don't need it to be on. Because if it's on, the USB pre is on, and I don't like to leave that on. I agree. Exactly right. I really don't want that on. Yeah, I don't want the USB interface on. I don't want my Thunderbolt hub on. I don't want anything on. I want't want i don't want the usb uh interface on i don't want the i don't want my thunderbolt hub on i don't want anything on i want it i want it off when it's off and it's nice it's a nice feeling when i shut it down and everything kind of goes

out and i'm like i'm done and i walk away and if i need to come back and because i forgot something oh no i have to wait 20 seconds for it to start up i mean it's almost no time at all so so yeah so i i start my day by pressing that that button along the back of the of the imac too and it is it is satisfying so because on the mac pro it's in an awkward position around the back of the little cylinder thing and um the click isn't very nice but on the imac because the imac's so thin it's really easy to get to there and it has a really nice the button is just very nice a very nice button it's very satisfying to click it. I won't do it now because it would turn my Mac off.

Yeah, don't do it. It's good. Okay, so this might just be a placebo thing, but this feels faster than my Mac Pro. Now on paper it should be because the processor is more powerful. But it might just be one of those things where I'm like, new computers quicker ray but however you slice it the machine that i have sitting in front of me is a monster like it's

fantastic it's really powerful um it is of course the most powerful machine that i've ever owned and it feels that way um and i am very happy because the work that i do there are bottlenecks um and this is the same with anybody that is a like you know creates the type of stuff that we And I am very happy because the work that I do, there are bottlenecks. And this is the same with anybody that creates the type of stuff that we create. There are always bottlenecks and bouncing or exporting and stuff like that. And this machine, it helps me edit podcasts quicker. It helps me reduce all of those loading times. And then not, you know, all of these things are like, you know,

what am I saving, like 10 minutes or something, 5 minutes, a couple of minutes, 20 seconds, 10 seconds. But it doesn't matter, because in the aggregate, this stuff adds up. And when I'm, you know, like today, I will be editing three podcasts in total. So all of that time saving is beneficial to me. And I like to have that. And I feel like I get that from this machine as well. is beneficial to me. And I like to have that. And I feel like I get that from this machine as well. Yeah, I think that most tests will indicate that the Mac Pro is still going to beat it for really threaded multi-core kind of tasks,

but for a whole lot of tasks that aren't aggressively throwing tasks out on, threads out onto all of those processor cores. It's just, I share your feelings. throwing tasks out on, you know, threads out onto all of those processor cores. It, you know, it's just, I share your feelings. I was coming from a MacBook Air. So like you, I was coming from a device that had an SSD. So that wasn't it. Although your SSD, you've got the new, you know, whatever it is, two and a half times higher bandwidth SSD on top of it. So yeah, it should feel fast. It's not as dramatic as going from like a spinning hard drive to an SSD, but still,

it's a good thing. You're all SSD, is that right? Yeah, 100%. So it was expensive because I bought the terabyte, but I don't currently have like an external storage solution, which I feel like I should get, but... Yeah, I have one of those. Yeah, do you have a Drobo? I have a Drobo, yeah, and I have half a terabyte of SSD.

What do you think about the Drobo? Because I have some people tell me to go Synology, some people tell me to go Drobo, and I'm not sure. So I don't think I have an official recommendation about any of that. And we can talk about this on another show. Boy, that worked wonders for the ATP guys. They talked about Synology and Drobo for like 80 episodes. It varies based on your needs.

I have also heard people say that they love Drobo and people who've had a lot of problems with it. I've had it for a year and had no problems with it at all. I do back it up, but it's also got the redundancy on its own hard drives. So theoretically, if one of the mechanisms fails, I can just pop it out and put in a new one. And I like that. Mine is a Thunderbolt Drobo. It's actually attached to my Mac mini, which, so it's not a NAS. It's just an external drive on my Mac mini that runs, that runs all the time. And that's my server. And I have a server that runs all the time. So it works not a NAS. It's just an external drive on my Mac Mini that runs. That runs all the time.

And that's my server. And I have a server that runs all the time. So it works for me. Whereas for some people, it makes more sense to have something that's a network attached device that's just a huge disk. But I've got it. You know, it's on gigabit Ethernet here in my house. So I'm moving just today.

I posted episode six of the Incomparable Radio Theater. And that was a project, episode four and six, because it's the same cast, were one big project. And it was kind of nice to be able to move that off of my iMac and to the Drobo. And, you know, it was, whatever it was, copying, I don't know, 20 gigabytes.

I mean, it was a lot of data, a lot of data. And to see it kind of just move off of my drive via gigabit ethernet to a server where it will live and be backed up and has some redundancy is kind of nice. And then I keep my workspace. Well, let's see how much.

I've got like 40 gigs free right now on my iMac itself for local stuff. So I shuttle things back and forth sort of as I'm working on them. But unless I'm encoding video, I very rarely get to the point where I run out of space. But unless I'm encoding video, I very rarely get to the point where I run out of space. But it's really nice to have a big server somewhere where you can dump your files when you're done with them. Yeah. I just haven't decided on a solution yet. Yeah.

No, it's a tough one. I feel like it's kind of shifting. And people have said for a while now that it wouldn't be nice if there was a more consumer-friendly kind of server idea? And I think everybody decided that it wasn't worth it because internet connections are getting faster and cloud storage is cheap. And so people are sort of assuming that in the next five or ten years, you won't need to worry about it. The problem is that's five or ten years away, and people who have connectivity issues, which you do, you don't have a super fast internet connection. You want to have storage locally. And so since there's no, you know, the investment here has been a lot less than you might expect, given that there is probably an easier way to solve this. But there are products out there.

And, you know, I do recommend you getting something, whether it's a NAS like the Synology or Drobo makes a NAS version, or whether it's something like a big attached storage device of some kind. I don't know. There are lots. I agree with you. I ended up with the Drobo through a chain of circumstances, but it fit my needs. But I am happy that I've got this giant 20 terabytes or whatever it is, 15 terabytes of data sitting across the room from me. That's nice.

That's a good feeling. Yeah. I'll say, it's one of those things I just don't know what to do. I mean, as well, like, it's fine at the moment. Like, I don't mind kind of trashing logic files after a couple of months when they're in the shows that are topical. So they're out of date, right? Like we're never going to go back and do them again.

But like... Yeah, I've got 105 gigabytes of clockwise episodes that I could trash and it would be fine. Yeah, you don't need it. I don't think. The MP3 files live in multiple places. I have backups of those, but not the Logic files. But shows where the content is more evergreen,

I do keep the Logic Files. So, for example, Cortex, I have all of those. I have the Inquisitive ones and stuff like that. I keep those. But like this show, we don't really need it. I do it maybe every quarter. I kind of bin the previous. So after a few months, if I've not needed it, I'll probably need it again.

And I'm sure someday that will come back to bite me but right now that's that's provided to be fine yeah oh i i wanted to mention before we move on since we're talking about ssds and devices uh and things like that i want to mention so my mother had a 2009 mid-2009 uh macbook pro and i used this for one of my some of my device testing last week. And I realized that what I need to do is get rid of it. So what I did was I actually bought an SSD and more RAM, 8 gigs of RAM, and opened it up last week. And what was amazing is this six-year-old computer felt just unusable. Even a year or two ago when my mom was still using it and she switched to an iPad, it was just so slow and awful.

And a thought occurred to me when I was reviewing that 4K iMac, which has the spinning hard drive. And I thought, spinning hard drive is the problem. So I replaced that in this 2009, mid-2009, 13 inch MacBook Pro. And it's great now. I mean, it's never going to be the same as a cutting edge MacBook Pro that you'd buy today. But for 120 bucks, maybe 110 bucks, I put in the SSD and now it's running El Capitan. And it's got eight gigs of RAM. And it's actually pretty great. So now I'm going to sell it to somebody because I think it would be a – I didn't want to sell somebody my mother's old, slow, awful computer, but by replacing the disk and adding more RAM,

it's a perfectly serviceable, cheap computer even though it's 5 years old, 6 years old. So that's my little story. Bottom line, on modern modern computers the disk is the thing that is going to kill you yes disk is do you got it that's just don't buy a spinning disk if you can help it and if you have to buy a spinning disk buy a fusion drive but yeah it's just they're so slow even the fast even the fast ones are slow and in an iMac or a laptop there it's usually not the fast one yeah and it's weird how like we made such, or Intel, not we, you know, it was nothing to do with it,

made such massive jumps in processor technology, right, with all the core stuff. And it really, you know, it became quite a thing and it just, we made massive jumps and continued to make massive jumps. But this stuff like the storage stuff really it didn't didn't kind of like go along with it you know ssds are fantastic but i bet there's still a bottleneck but you know if you're still looking at computers today that are being sold new with hard disks in them, that's a problem.

As we have many other people have lamented in what I am dubbing the year of storage woe with Apple. All right. We'll take it. Think about the 16 gigabyte iPhones, the fact that the iPad Pro is 32 or 128. You've got the Apple TV. Why is it in two different storage solutions? Nobody understands which one to buy. And then you have spinning disks in iMacs.

2015 is the year of storage problems. Great uneasiness in storage-related issues for Apple this year. Alright, let's talk about these magic devices and my opinions on those. But before we do that let me take a moment to thank our friends over at Igloo for sponsoring this episode. You should know Igloo. They make the intranet you'll actually like. If you are stuck

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terrible security risk for a lot of companies and igloo make all this safe talking about security they have 256-bit encryption single sign-on and active directory integrations a lot of that stuff doesn't make complete sense to me but having worked in big companies i'm familiar with those terms from the stuff that i used to see and use. And I worked for a bank, right? So I don't think you can get, like, if I know those terms from working in a bank, you know that Igloo's got some secure stuff, right? Because this is the type of stuff that they're integrating.

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magic devices. I bought all of them, right? Mmm, magic. I didn't even take the mouse out of the packaging. I decided it's got nothing I need in it. Sounds about right. I could sell it. I'll keep it,

right? Because it's just there now. It came with the device for as much as I'm concerned. And mainly this is because I mentioned this. I'm going through some RSI problems right now. I'm switching around inputs and stuff like that. And I know that the Magic Mouse is not going to be helpful in this scenario because it is not built for ergonomics. It is built for beauty.

So I don't need to use it i have a magic mouse that i use on my laptop when i'm on the road because it's nice and small and i get to to use you know the the gestures and stuff so because i mean see for a trackpad i mean trackpad's terrible the mouse is pretty much just as bad so i just can kind of flick between them with different hands right so that's fine but I don't use that too much. So I needed two keyboards, right, because I was moving documents with the migration assistant and stuff from one machine to the other. So great, I had the new keyboard, and I remember what Jason told me to do.

I just plugged it in, right? Yep. And it paired. Bingo. Excellent. Didn't need to go through the rubbish with it, even in the setup screens. Plugged it in, plugged it in, done.

I do not like that keyboard at all. I really, really don't like it. It's very pretty. I love the way it looks. But that key travel, I cannot abide. It feels worse to me than my MacBook Pro keyboard. And I mentioned this to Stephen on Connected, and he reminded me.

I know it is. Worse, just because the travel's different doesn't mean it's worse, right? It depends on where you come from. I find it worse. It is different. It's shallower. But I don't like it at all.

Stephen prefers it to his MacBook. Interesting. Because he's saying he likes the stability of the keys. People have opinions. Yeah, because the keys aren't stable. I could feel that, but I felt like they weren't going anywhere. And I use the Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic keyboard,

so it's very different. I mean, I started using it for a moment. I was like, this is going to set my hands on fire to use this thing, because, again, not built for ergonomics. But the key travel i don't know what it is but the key travel is is quite deep um on the on the microsoft keyboard that i use um so i couldn't use it but i tried it and it's it's very nice to look at okay but it's just it's just not for me well and there is nothing there is nothing more personal than an input device and especially a keyboard and there is no one right answer for

what the best keyboard is that's that's the funny thing is we have like all the jokes about uh marco arment and the and the macbook uh the adjectiveless macbook being having a bad keyboard and i don't like that keyboard either um but some people like it and that's fine because people's bodies are different and and the needs that they've got for their uh for their devices are different and there there is you know we don't live in a world where there's only one kind of keyboard to get and there's a reason for that and it's not because some people are wrong it's because different keyboards work for different people yeah they do i i'm still i'm still using it although i'm uh i'm uh gonna go back to my logitech easy switch keyboard and try that and see how i like that and

sort of do the reverse thing and see if i notice what's different going back to the one that i was using before i was using the the magic keyboard um just just to see yeah i mean i don't think i'm a good i'm a good litmus tester just because i use a specific keyboard for a specific reason that the uh magic keyboard is not built for um i have kept the magic trackpad around though um i like the size and feel of it i think it actually does look nicer than I expected. I still wish it was black to match the iMac. But it is good looking.

I like the form factor that it kind of mirrors the iMac screen size. So it's not a square. It is a rectangle. Which makes sense for mapping. Even though I know it's like inertial and

momentum based so you don't it's not directly mapped anyway but it just makes sense in my brain well you're moving around a wider an area that's wider than it is tall so your pointing device is wider than it is tall but yeah which makes sense basically makes sense yeah um i am still having the issue with missed clicks. Now, sometimes, like, if I'm clicking and dragging something, I do something, maybe I don't press hard enough and it loses it. I've noticed this a couple of times moving documents around and moving things around in Logic. Now, maybe I'm more sensitive to this than other people. Maybe I don't do a good enough job of clicking

but the thing was the old trackpad I never missed it because it was physical so as long as I was keeping the pressure down it worked for me sometimes what I found is like maybe there's been a slight variation in the pressure and the trackpad believes that I've taken my that I've intended to stop this click

and begin a new one that's what I think is going on here. I never missed with the old one, right? Because I could like press down with my thumb and move with my finger and it was fine. But there's something

going on. Maybe like I'm pressing down my thumb and then pressing down too hard with my finger at a certain point and it's registering a new click but the physical trackpad on my MacBook Pro and on my... Well, I used the previous Magic Trackpad. I never had... And this was never an issue. Like, I never noticed myself doing something that was unintended when moving stuff around.

You know, like, that was never a thing before. But this is a thing that I am seeing. And I need to pay more attention to work out what i think it's doing but basically my feeling of it is it's because it is not physical there is software there is something that is trying to understand what i'm doing and it's it's when you take away that physical element it will in my opinion it will never be right 100% of the time because it's doing more judgment of the movement that I'm making rather than the movement I'm intending to make.

What I have noticed, though, is using my MacBook Pro trackpad is now less satisfying because I can't click anywhere I want. And I found that really interesting. Huh. You mean like the diving board thing where you can't click higher up?

Yeah. So it's not as easy to click in the top part, naturally, as it is in the bottom part, but that's not an issue on the Magic Trackpad 2. I can click anywhere I like, right? And it registers just as nicely. So that is an interesting feeling. My clicking is entirely done with my thumb,

so it's always at the bottom. Well, that's how I always was, but it's funny how in just a day or two, it's changed that. And then I used my MacBook Pro and was like, oh, I can't do that now. So I found that very interesting to see. It is hilarious to me that it makes that clicking sound.

And I did turn the clicking off, but it it still clicks anyway so I just left it on it makes that vibration and that vibration makes a noise, it's just not the higher frequency click thing that they have a little speaker in there to fake for you I find it more, I encourage anybody that has one to turn the click off in system preferences so you can just hear the difference.

It's funny to me. It's clear... It sounds like an artificial click. It is a funny sounding click and I kind of like that it does it. It's on the MacBook at least, I think, has the same thing. Yeah, it would do.

I assume that it would do. I have silent clicking turned on, which isn't entirely silent, but since I'm doing podcasts and things i figure the quieter the better so i have it turned off um i really like that you can turn it off and it breaks your brain you know because it's like it actually doesn't move and oh yeah when you when you just flip the switch and turn it off it just it's no longer responsive. Yeah. And that's something that I like to demonstrate to people in my family.

Right? So, like, I said to Adina, like, come here and click this. And I turn it off, I click it now. She's like, oh, it's just a funny little thing. Right? It's nice. But, yeah, look, all in all, like, the Magic Trackpad is the winner for me because it actually does do some stuff to improve on the last one in ways that are meaningful to me like the size of it is nicer yeah the uh the overall package is nicer like it's i like how much lower it is to the desk um and there i can see there being some benefits with

the force touch stuff uh eventually but as i say the the downside is removing the physical click um i think does uh make the um it is less less accurate and i think that's just a nature of moving it in the way that they're moving it but i do i do really like it but the other ones they're not for me that i can see that they are great for many people. They're just not for me, especially the mouse, because it's like all you've done is just make it rechargeable via a lightning cable. So what I may do is I actually may replace the one that I currently use. I just thought of doing that.

Why don't I do that? So then I don't ever have to worry about rechargeable batteries again. It's like the one that I keep in my travel bag. I'm just going to replace that. So I'll just use the one. Because I always have a lightning cable in that bag, right? Right. So I'll do that. Yeah, so that's one thing that I will do.

But aside from that, it's not massively useful for me to use every day. Perfectly reasonable. Apple TV went on sale. As you very rightly have written in a document, I don't care. I did order one. I did order one. I did order one. I don't care about it, but I ordered it so I won't be sitting here going, Jason, what does it do, right?

I want to have one. It's a business expense. Yeah. But I really don't care. But I'm interested in seeing if you do. Yeah. Well, I'm interested to see what it what it can do i um i i placed my order i actually placed my order from the plane um when i landed in

phoenix on the way back from the conference i turned on and saw turn on the the turn off airport airplane mode and it said on twitter oh apple tv orders are starting now. And I went to the Apple Store app and went, you know, boop, boop, boop, bought it. It was just while we were taxiing to the gate. It was pretty funny, the world we live in. So mine is coming early next week. I didn't pay extra for shipping. If they have them in stock at the Apple Store, I might go up there if I can get one early. But otherwise, I'll check it out next week and try it then. I got the smaller storage one because I don't, Apple seems to

struggle with this, right? And we've, we mentioned it, you mentioned it earlier in the year, this is the year of Apple struggling with storage things. It's still really unclear about why there's a big one on a small one. And Apple's response was sort of like, well, if you got lots of games, you might want to have the big one. And that we may find out that there are some very specific things that are better on the big one where people start to load up on a lot of apps and they run out of storage space and they have to delete something. And we may find that. But right now it's kind of unclear. And I was trying to explain to sort of regular people about why they're the two models and how they vary.

And when I say, well, one of them has more storage, and they say, well, does it matter? And I have to kind of shrug and go, I don't know. It may not matter. But I bought the smaller one. And we'll see. Yeah, I mean, I really hope that there isn't a clear reason that one is better than the other that Apple isn't telling us yet

because that would super suck. Because their reason is just like, maybe you want more games? I don't know. I'm struggling. I'm struggling to be interested in this device from a user perspective. Yeah, well, we'll see.

We'll see what the deal is. I think apps will start to come out. I did hear from somebody who had a developer unit. I forget. I'm not going to say who it was in case I did not talk to them on a podcast about it, and it's not public. But the point was that the developer unit, you could swap it in for your regular old Apple TV, except for one problem, which is it didn't have any apps yet. Yeah, they're empty. Like testing an iOS device, it doesn't have apps other than Apple's apps, which means that the old Apple TV came with YouTube at one point and Netflix, right?

And the new one doesn't. The new one doesn't come with Netflix. You have to download the Netflix app, I believe, which is interesting. And so that's going to be a change too, is that you need to actually go and download the apps that you want to bring on board and use. But we'll see how it is. I'm looking forward to it. It should be kind of fun, play with the Siri stuff. But in the long run, you know, I was telling somebody last week that my family that I was visiting, they were asking what box, you know, what box we had and what about the new Apple TV? And I said, honestly, we don't use much of it because we use the TiVo and

the TiVo has, our TiVo not only records stuff off of TV, but it streams YouTube and it streams Netflix and Hulu and Amazon Video. So I don't use my existing Apple TV very much. And we'll see if this changes that. I think it's time for Ask Upgrade. I think it is. I think you're right. And I'm very excited for something. Well, it could be this. It could be that an old friend of ours has returned. They have indeed. Could you please It could be that an old friend of ours has returned. They have indeed. Could you please tell our listeners about our old friend?

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Do you buy AppleCare for things, Mike? Some things. I buy them for the phones because I could drop them and break them. And I buy them for bigger computer purchases because they're expensive to replace.

Maybe fix fixed too. So I have AppleCare on the iMac and I have AppleCare on my iPhone. So what do you think for this? I would say no for the Apple TV because it's relatively inexpensive to replace and it stays stationary. Yeah, you're not carrying it around. It's also small. It's not particularly heavy.

And yeah. it around it's it's also small it's not particularly heavy and uh yeah and and again if it fails in the first whatever year or two it's going to be covered by the standard warranty so if there are production problems or something you're going to be covered regardless i i i asked you that because i don't have apple care on anything at all i'm a bad i'm a bad person to ask about this no not at all interesting because yeah, I kind of follow one of those two things, right? So it's the idea of it doesn't move around a lot or is it really expensive? And if one of those answers is yes, then I'll probably get AppleCare. Yeah, I'm an AppleCare never. I don't know.

I mean, it probably works out better for you in the long run because the money you've saved on not buying AppleCare will. I don't know. I mean, it probably works out better for you in the long run because the money you've saved on not buying AppleCare will do a replacement, where I've never taken anything in for a repair. But when I'm... It's like the same with me buying all those devices. When I'm spending a ridiculous amount of money on something, adding that price on usually isn't that much

of the overall percentage of the price, you know? Like when I'm spending 700 pounds on a phone, adding another like 99 on for the protection of it doesn't seem too bad, you know? Yeah. It's fine. I get it.

I just, at this point, I feel like I'm way ahead. But yeah, I've never had it. I don't know. You know, if I do the Apple, if I do that Apple phone replacement thing, that would be the first time. If I do that plan, which I probably won't,

but if I did that, that would be the first time I'd had AppleCare. You could say, no, I don't want it. You take that away from me. That may be one of the reasons why I just buy the full price phone instead of doing their installment plan it's like i'm not paying for your apple care you can't get that apple care away from me it's smelly jonathan uh tweeted at us and included a link to a youtube video which i will include in the show notes and jonathan said i stayed up until 3 a.m for this first off jonathan

why yeah i hope you had other things going on me too uh should apple watch not animate back an hour more elegantly so what jonathan i believe is in the uk and you guys just had your time change we don't have ours until uh this week well somewhere maybe in the uk somewhere in europe okay somewhere in europe all right um or maybe another part of the world because America decided a few years ago that they wanted to change. Anyway. It's good for the trick-or-treaters, Mike. It's to keep the trick-or-treaters safe.

That is a... We're not going to go down this. That is actually the reason. That is actually the reason. Okay. Okay, anyway. I hate this, by the way right now right now we're a week off so yes you go in a week the worst one is the other side of the year where it's three weeks of

difference and it's everything goes later everything is earlier for me now anyway yeah we're complaining about that in about six months time so what happens like like clockwork this isn't like clockwork that what happens on the apple watch it's like the opposite of clockwork so what happens is when the time changes the there's no animation so it just goes from three to two in like a flash if you have ever changed time zones so you've maybe flown somewhere and seen what happens to your apple watch it's the same thing so when i got off the plane and i my phone came back to life there wasn't a delightful spinning animation or anything like that where the watch finds its new time it just goes and like just in a quick of a

flash and then it's just the new time and i really feel like they could animate it because the animation exists because the animation happens when you go into the changing watch faces thing because it always goes to that standard watch time of like what is it nine minutes past 10 and then when you put it back in again it all kind of just flows back you know all the hands move until it goes back to the correct time yeah you're right but they don't do this for uh time zone changes and i really wish that they would i agree with you it would be fun i maybe they could even do it where it uh where you actually see the minute the minute hand rotate all the way around like yeah like an old time movie of like the passage of time

right i think that would be fun nice i don't know why you wouldn't do that i i feel like you you should just do that because it's one of those things um it's just a little touch it's like they it's like the steve jobs thing about how you make the wood on the back on the furniture that goes against the wall you make the back look good even though nobody's going to see it because it's just a little it's a little detail and it's not going to be appreciated by a lot of people but in this case you're exactly right they already have an animation to do this why wouldn't you do that because people are changing time zones all the time they're probably not staring at their watch at two in the morning or three in the morning whatever it is in order to

in order to watch uh their watch change automatically during a daylight saving switch over but uh but still if they are reward them right yeah but also i feel like if they are, reward them. Right? Yeah, but also I feel like anytime somebody changes time zone on a plane, they will always look at their watch to ensure that it's changed. That's true. So I reckon a large majority of people see

that non-animation happen. Time zone gate. It's starting right here. If anybody out there is working in the watch team, could be, you now know this. So if you change it, I'll know you did it for me. All right. I just want you to know that.

I'll know and we will have that link forever. I will point out that Apple has struggled with time zones on iOS for a while now and daylight savings time and alarms being broken and stuff like that. So yeah, the fact that it worked, don't get me wrong, very happy that it worked, but I would like this animation. Jason, Ed wrote in to ask if your photos book contains any tips on transitioning from Lightroom, and if not, is there a resource that you recommend?

Why did you read this one? Because if it doesn't, I still wanted to plug your book. If it does, we're plugging your book. Thanks for asking, Ed. No, my book contains nothing about Lightroom. I've not heard from a lot of people transitioning from Lightroom to Photos. That's actually kind of a new one to me. I don't use Lightroom, even though I have it, because I have the Adobe Photoshop Photos

bundle for Creative Cloud. So I don't use it. And I don't know anything about it. And I don't know if somebody like Jeff Carlson might have a resource because he's, he's very knowledgeable in all things Mac photography, he may have a he may have something like that. But I, I dove deep into photos. And I dealt with some aperture and iPhoto things because there are direct imports from those. Whereas from Lightroom, there's nothing supported that's direct. So that is not one of the things that's included in my book. Photos for Mac, a Take Control Crash Course, available at takecontrolbooks.com.

Freshly upgraded for El Capitan. So this is the thing. I expected it didn't, but wanted to just give you the moment to plug the book, you know? Thanks, Mike. There you go. So would you suggest to our lovely listener, Ed, that he considers this move?

Because you're going to be losing a lot, right? Because Lightroom is in active development. If you move to photos, you'll be losing some stuff. I don't know enough about what ed's needs are he may be using lightroom and thinking it's overkill and then he'd rather just go back to photos that's possible um but you know photos my impression of photos is that it's still not anything remotely close to a professional photography tool it's got some more stuff now

but you know people coming from aperture were generally kind of disappointed and i think that i think that coming from that direction you're to notice a lot of things that are missing in a way that people coming from iPhoto don't notice. So I don't know. It depends a lot on what Ed's, why he wants to switch and what he uses this stuff for. But bottom line, Photos does a great job of importing files into its database. And so, you know, and it will read out your metadata from your files. So if Lightroom, if your photos that are in Lightroom have their data embedded in them, you know, their location data and stuff like that, it should read those. I'm not sure if you can write in keywords and things like that,

and there's no other kind of import process, nor is there enough scripting access, I believe, to make that an easier process, unfortunately. Okay. And finally today, at Tomato Trucks, which is fun.

Good one. Wanted to know, if the Apple Watch was edition was cheaper say the price of a regular apple watch would we prefer it to our current watch so i don't think i would like the gold shiny watch like if i did like a gold watch i could buy the gold sport right now that we have now that we have the gold sport yeah i don't really want that what do you think uh i agree with you i don't think i want a heavier watch and the gold watches are heavier and gold's not gold's not my thing but uh if i did want a gold watch now i'm glad that i've

got the option i could get the gold sport if i wanted to do that. So no, I don't think I would want it. Then again, I have the sport. I don't even have the regular with the stainless. So, yeah. Well, there you go. So no gold watches here. Sorry. You don't have to apologize.

Unless someone in that watch team I just mentioned was already getting ready to ship us some if you are a person in watch send it along yeah feel free still like i i could you know hand it down as an heirloom christopher walken style to my kids in the future yeah it's not it's not for me jason that's brought us to the end of this week's episode i think so i think we did it. 60. 60 down. Look at that. Look at that. 60 and just over 60. If you want to find us online, there's a couple of places you can do that.

You should go to sixcolors.com and you can find all of Jason's lovely work. And if you are listening live or very, very quickly, then you'll be able to catch the earnings announcement stuff that you're going to be doing. Maybe we'll talk about it next week. If there's any really, really interesting tidbits, they'd have to be really. Maybe we'll talk about it next week. If there's any really, really interesting tidbits, they'd have to be really interesting for us to talk about them a week later, but probably will be interesting anyway. Maybe some of the this is Tim type stuff

could be worth discussion. We'll see, but you should go over there. Again, you should also, if you're listening very quickly, follow Six Colors event. Yes, of course. It's all locked in my brain, Jason. I've got it all locked down here.

And you can also follow Jason. He is at jsnl, Twitter J-S-N-E-L-L, and I am at imyke, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks again to our sponsors, Braintree, Igloo, and MailRoute. Mailbagging. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell.

Goodbye, everybody.