Upgrade - 602: Get Our Necks Limber

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

From Relay, this is Upgrade episode 602 for February 9th, 2026. This episode is brought to you by Delete Me, Factor, and One Password. My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason. Hi, Mike Hurley. Good to be back. Good to have you here. Now, listeners of the podcast, I mean, we just do a podcast every Monday, and they don't even know, but I was gone on vacation all last week.

So that was pretty great. But we pre-recorded. We did. It's like we didn't miss a beat. It feels like it was a long time. And since we last recorded, but it was just. like three extra days more than normal. I was closer to our friend Jeremy in Australia than I was to you.

Wow. Which is weird. Amazing. But that's what happens when you fly out into the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I went to Hawaii. Yeah. If that was not, if people had not decoded that. When you look at Hawaii on a map, I remember before I went the first time,

Graham forced me to open Apple Maps and take a look at where Hawaii is on the map. And I was like, oh, my word. I thought it was way closer to America. If you rotate a globe. and you can get the globe to be almost entirely Pacific Ocean. Yep. And then you go like, and there's Hawaii right there in the middle. It's a beautiful place, but it's terrifying.

Just to give people an idea of how far away it is. So I was as far away from Jeremy in Melbourne as I was from Dan in Boston. So think of the five and a half hour flight from Boston to San Francisco and then another five-hour flight from San Francisco to Hawaii. that's it's a long way like it's a long way but it's still only halfway to Australia I think like at least times on wise it is the exact opposite side of the world to me

because it's 12 hour difference between here and Hawaii no no it's 10 right now is it 10? Okay when I was there it was more maybe I was just like 11 it goes because they don't do daylight savings so yeah this time of year

you drop two hours it's very funny for us because West coasters aren't used to flying east home and so we're not used to that kind of jet lag. I'm used to flying the other direction for everything else, literally everything else, except if Hawaii or New Zealand. So that's been interesting to try to get up in the morning.

But it was great. I love it. I mean, I count how many, I'm not going to say how many times I've been to Hawaii, but it's a large number in my life because I love it so much. And I love getting photos when you're there, and you sent me lots.

So many chickens, Mike. Oh, my God, so many chickens running around. Oh, they're the beautiful, beautiful. Big chicken. As we left, the rental car guy was like, you know, it's just like when we go to the mainland and we see squirrels. And he was like, they're just pests. But it's fun for us. We love to see those chickens running around. I have a snow talk question for you that comes from Ed. And Ed wants to know, Jason, who are you cheering for in the Olympic curling tournament? And do you think anyone can beat Rachel Holman? Rachel Homan's the skip of the Canadian women's team, by the way, for people who are not in the know. I am. cheering for the U.S. for two reasons. One is I am a U.S.ian, U.S. A.ian. And two, curling coverage in the in the U.S. is largely of the American team until you get to the finals or the various playoff, you know, tournament parts, the knockout parts. That's just a natural thing. And what I would say is a more attention given to curling by American media, which success by Americans helps that a whole lot. The more attention is paid to our sport.

that means the more people who are interested, and that means the more people who are going to go to their local curling club, including ours, to try it. And that makes more curlers, and that makes more members. And our club is a, you know, volunteer-led operation. And, you know, so we need, the members are what keep it going and pay the rent and the electrical bill on keeping the ice ice in Oakland for a Bay Area Curling Club. So I want America to do well, not just because I am from there, but also because it will increase the visibility that we have in in the U.S. and create more curlers in the U.S. because we want more. If you'd like to send in a snow talk question for us to open a future episode of the show

with, just go to UpgradeFeedback.com and send you as in. Oh, and Ed, sure, anyone could beat Rachel Holman. I mean, she might win. Canada, very powerful, although they got knocked out of the, they didn't even make the medal round for mixed doubles. But, you know, anybody can beat anybody at any time. Yes, the UK, Mike, because the Scots who invented it. Technically, Great Britain.

It's right. Team G.B. That's right. Because they'll, the Irish, Northern Ireland puts their people on the Irish team. Is that right? Or nowhere? I genuinely don't know. I don't know. I think maybe they do. So yes, it's Team GB. Team GB. It's basically Scotland, though. Let's just put it that way. Scotland invented curling and the Scots are very good at curling. and so they are favorites and the Canadians are always favorites because the Canadians are the ones who kind of like kept the torch lit and there are you know

there are lots of other countries involved Italy's got a good team in mixed doubles right now so we'll see and then the US team is fun the men's team is fun this year men and women both qualified kind of like nail biters so I'm not sure they're going to meddle

but the men's team is fun because it's a different it's a young skip and and so it's a different crew from the Will Schuster crew that won the gold medal a while back and is still been going. So anyway, it's fun. I recommend people check it out if you're in the U.S. CNBC has it on weekends. It's on USA Network some of the time, and it's all on Peacock. So, you know, the mixed doubles is about to end, but the men and women will then start up and those go with the rest. It's the only sport that plays on every day of the Winter Olympics. In fact, plus two. They started two days before the Winter Olympics started.

That's a lot of curling. They've got these two different events. It is a lot of curling. But we've been watching. So great thing about flying back from Hawaii. We're on Southwest and they have live TV and one of the channels they had was CNBC and it was a Saturday and the curling was on. And so we just watched curling on the plane live. It was awesome. That flight went by fast. That was so great. So yeah, curling. It's great. So we're called Team GB, but it is the United Kingdom. So I don't know why. And it's GBR is the symbol. And, you know, I don't know why. Team G.B.

So it says, like, it is the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic team. Okay. But we use the branding team GBA. I think, okay, interesting. I think I read somewhere that there were, the people from Northern Ireland could play for the Irish Olympic team. But there's a lot of, Olympic qualification is, Olympic qualification is very interesting, right? Like, Puerto Rico has a team. This is a great segue, by the way.

Puerto Rico, where Bad Bunny is from. has its own team, even though it is also a territory, which is why it has its own team of the United States, and everybody in Puerto Rico is a U.S. citizen. So there are some interesting quirks, let's just say, about what countries are countries for Olympic purposes. And I also think it's funny that, like,

for soccer purposes, there is no team GB. This is actually a problem during the soccer tournament in the summer Olympics, is everything in, in the UK is by country. So there's a Scottish league and an English league, but you have to have Team GB for soccer. And it's very confusing.

And so anyway, I don't know how people do your thing, but there's like one person on the Puerto Rico team. Anyway, bad bunny. Yeah. So continuing the sports conversation, we'll do our annual Super Bowl conference. We actually do talk about the Super Bowl and some... Oh, do we?

Yeah, every year we talk about it a little bit. Day podcast. I get, I mean, you listen wherever you want, dear listeners, but we record a Monday morning. So we are Monday morning quarterbacking it right now. This is what's happening. I always want to talk about two things, which is the halftime show and the ads. And the ads. Yeah, you're big sports guy, big football guy. Big American football guy. I just take out all the sports from the whole event. Do you have any thoughts on the game? I'm waiting for the alt cast where it's just the ads in the halftime show. And that during the rest of it, they fill that with, I don't know, kittens or puppies or whatever. Yeah. For people who don't care about. about the football, but do care about the ads. Yeah. I think that would be a fun, like, inverse. I mean, you can get it. Alternative cast stream that... Just turn away.

They could do. More so all ads and replace the ads with football. Ooh. Interesting. Flip it. Interesting. So do you have any thoughts on the game? I assume you watched it.

It was not, yeah. Not a very good game. The... It was clear that the Seattle Seahawks were the best team in football. I think all year, I thought that was pretty clear. That's what you would hope. That side of the tournament, the NFC was a more powerful stacked group. I didn't think that either Denver or New England, who were the final teams were,

I mean, not that they didn't have great seasons, but I look at the teams on the other side of the bracket, and they were all better. I think the Rams were better. I think the 49ers were better. I mean, I honestly think, so the Seattle, the L.A. Rams and the San Francisco 49ers are all in the same division. I think they're probably the three best teams in football this year. So it was stacked. And I thought it was pretty clear. that the Seahawks were the best team by far. And it's a cool story because Sam Darnold, who was the quarterback of Seattle.

He was a high draft pick. He went to the Jets. I repeat myself when I say he was a massive failure in left, letdown, because I already said he went to the Jets. But he rehabbed his career. He went to San Francisco and did a year of sort of like, this is becoming a thing where failed quarterbacks who actually have a lot of talent go to San Francisco

and they get a year or two as a backup. And they get to work with Kyle Shanahan, who was a brilliant head coach and a brilliant offensive mind. And it's almost like rehab for quarterbacks. And then he went and had a great year in Minnesota. And then he went and had, Minnesota didn't want him.

I don't know why. And then he went and had a great year in Seattle. It's just great. It's a classic, even if you know nothing about football, it is this wonderful redemption story of this guy who was so well thought of out of college at USC and then became a bust and a laughing stock,

which New York likes to do. If you show any weakness at all, New York media will destroy you. and then he kind of got his head together and now he is a Super Bowl winning quarterback. So that is awesome. That's a good story. That's a good story.

It's a nice story. But it wasn't much of a game. So, you know, they dominated. Their defense is amazing and they dominated. So, yeah. But as Zoe mentioned, it is the Apple Music halftime show. So it is technically within our remit.

It is. It is true. It is the Apple Music halftime show. I mean, we could talk about it anyway, but now even more so. Even more. I like, they had that effect where you go through like a tunnel

and it's the Apple. logo. You kind of like enter the Apple logo and it becomes like a hyperspace tunnel that leads you to the halftime show. I thought that was kind of cool. The halftime show was great. I expected it would be and it was.

It was brilliant. The production was fantastic. Yeah, the production. I mean, it was like watching a movie and the fact that they were doing it live. Just an amazing. I mean, they cranked it down right. I think it was 24 frames a second.

So it looks like a movie. I remember when the halftime shows used to be from the cameras they used to shoot the game. And it's like, no, don't do that. And so super theatrical. Bad Bunny's tour was very visually distinct, right? Like he would have the kind of house that he would perform on. And so I'm happy that they brought that aesthetic to the Super Bowl halftime show as well.

Like it looks really good. All those transitions where they're like there's a pre-taped bit and then you realize now we're in the actual stadium and you can start to see the things that are happening. And he falls off the – he does a trust fall off the side into the hands. And he falls through the roof down below into a little pre-taped bit and then comes out. I thought that was funny because he falls through the roof and then on the inside of the house he's got like all this plaster dust all over him and then when he steps out he's perfectly immaculate

but he still brushes a little off his shoulder maybe the door had one of those like bead doors and just like blew the dust up. There's a blower. There's a blower in there to keep the bugs out and it also blows all of the dust off of you when the ceiling collapses. So you know I don't know anything about bad bunny at all and I don't speak Spanish

so I don't understand a word that he was singing. But this is what I got out of it. It was visually incredibly fun. Yep. And it seemed, this is what I, this is the word I keep coming back to. It seemed joyous, right? It just seemed like, fun.

It's fun. It's fun. It wasn't serious. It wasn't. And some Super Bowl halftime shows are like, it's all about the music, oh, attitude, right? And, uh, no, it was just fun.

And it was a celebration. Joyous. I think, because this is, you know, I think this is the key. to Bad Bunny's success that if you don't know what he's saying, people enjoy his music because it sounds good.

Like it just sounds fun. Like you can dance to it. And I think that has really helped to become so popular. He is the number one musical star in the world and in the US. I mean, he's not a He's not a small name. He is the, I get the Bloomberg Entertainment newsletter where they do a kind of like calculation using methods

of calculating who is the top star right now. And it's it's Bad Bunny and it's not even close. And I can see it. I mean, I see the joy of it. The way it was orchestrated, was beautiful.

There were some stars in the background, which was very funny. Pedro Pascal was back there. Ronald Acuna Jr., the baseball player. He was getting, there were cool cameos happening. And the one that I love the best.

So there's a really great bit of choreography where he's going around and he's like, he gets something at one vendor and then gives it to another vendor and then gets something back and gives it to another. And he ends up with a wedding ring, basically. And he looks at, he opens it up and he's like, no.

And he closes it and he hands it to a guy who's standing next to a woman. The guy goes down on a knee to propose, basically. And you're like, oh, that's really funny. And then a little bit later, they're in, she's in a wedding dress and they're getting married. And then a little bit later you see them and they're cutting the cake and giving it to people on the, on the stage, one of the stages as part of this. Just as you go throughout, there's this through line about this couple. and the best part, Mike, it was a real wedding.

Bad Bunny signed he was the witness. They wrote him and said, we would like you to come to our wedding, which is cute, and he said, I have a better idea. And they got married at the Super Bowl, and Bad Bunny was the witness.

Real, real wedding. Apparently so. That's what they say. I did not know that. Yeah. That is incredible. Yeah, the Guardian. Wedding and Bad Bunny's Super Bowl

halftime show was the real thing. I did think that. looked really happy. I guess that's why. When they, when they kissed, I was like, that's pretty good acting,

right? Like, that looks like super real. Wow. Yeah, isn't that sweet? But I feel like that goes with the whole joy of the whole thing.

Yeah. So I just thought it was fun. And here's the thing. I know that there's, there was some political people complaining about this and all that. I'll just say this, which is Puerto Rico is part of America. Like,

it is. We could, you know, and the people of Puerto Rico, should be able to decide do they want to be independent? Do they want to be a state? Do they want to remain as they are? They've been really treated, I would argue very badly, by the central U.S. government, especially over the last 10 or 15 years. They should determine their destiny. But for now and for the last very long time, Puerto Rico is American. And they can, they're in America. And they can, so this is a, I love that this is a different aspect of America, but it is still fundamentally American. I also really loved the, God bless America and then he listed all the countries in the Americas. I thought that was great and very funny. That was high risk for him that he had to remember them all. I know. I was like, I know, right? I seen the list. I was like, bravo. Because it was forgotten by bad, but no, he got all of them all the way up to Canada.

That was the best bit. And he covered, covered some islands and yeah, it's great. What I love is the end of that moment. He, like, is so excited and he throws the ball into the ground and he's just like elated. Like, he He spiked the ball at the end. How, oh, that was so good. Yeah. I think he's just, he's just got that, he's just got a charisma and an energy about him that even though I didn't know anything about him, I just thought it was fun. So yeah, thumbs up to the Apple music half time show. I thought that was pretty. I would say they've all been good. How many Apple employees do you think were there? I mean, usually I know Tim and Eddie go to the Super Bowl. I expect they get a big box or a couple of boxes. Actually, and I wonder if there was some like event at Apple. this week? Just a private event at Apple that was just for like music people or something? I don't know. I'm sure that they have like a thing

where all the executives go and it's like a reward for some high performing individuals you get to go. For people who don't, yeah, probably. For people who don't know Bay Area Geography, by the way, because I think it's really funny

that I, the tech industry is all kind of in the Bay Area and I am one of the only people in our circle who lives here, which is very funny. First off, the Super Bowl is in Santa Clara at the 49th Stadium. It's not in San Francisco, the city,

which is really hilarious when you, they always, they got a good shot of the Golden Gate Bridge or the Bay Bridge or stuff like that. It's 45 miles away from there. I mean, and far south end of the bay. Everyone's just been talking about the fact that the Super Bowl is in San Francisco. Like that has been the conversation. And they do all the festivities up there.

Like, all the festivities are in San Francisco. Everybody wants to be in San Francisco. And it's been a fun week because all these people who believe, like, the propaganda that San Francisco is a disaster of a city that's in a doom loop has showed up and been like, oh, actually it's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, it is actually really nice. I mean, we've got, San Francisco's got its, it's tough neighborhoods and stuff, and they're a little more visible because of the way it's laid out in the city, but like, what city doesn't? And so much of San Francisco is just, just beautiful and remarkable, and it's one of the great

cities in the world. And everybody who came for the Super Bowl was like, oh, yeah, right, it's really great. I actually have a little thing, a little, little, um, a, um, a kid. my gears have been ground a little bit by this in a different way. All right. Well, like, I've been seeing a lot of people saying that, like, a lot of people, a lot of people have been sharing clips from a Pat McAfee thing where he's talking about how much he's loved San Francisco. Right.

It's not at all like what they say on Fox News. Right. And people are like dunking on him for that, right? And I just think that that's not the right approach, right? Like, he is trying to be open and saying, I was wrong. I think that we should be like, this is great. rather than like, oh, of course, Dumbo. Like, I just don't think that's helpful.

My only complaint is that he also did this last year when they did a college game day at Cal and they were at Berkeley. And he's like, whoa, it's really great. Berkeley is nice. And I got a bunch of food down on Telegraph Avenue. And now we're here with all the cheering fans. And I guess the Bay Area isn't what I thought. And he comes back a year later. And he's like, whoa, the Bay Area is not what I thought. Well, this time we was talking about San Francisco,

which is a whole different thing to the rest of the Bay Area. Yeah, yeah, it's totally different from Berkeley. Anyway, so for Berkeley is on the other side of the Bay Bridge in the East Bay from, so this is the geography point I wanted to make, which is Apple is very close to where the stadium is. That's in the South Bay. That's in Silicon Valley per, you know, proper. It's in Santa Clara and Apples and Cooper Tino, but they're not that far apart. They're both, they're both down there and not in the city of San Francisco. So in some ways, it was on Apple's home turf that all of this happened. That's my Apple related geography bit for the day. So I also like to just do a quick run through some of the ads that I liked. And I'm sure you have some too. Usually for me, I'm looking for media like movies and TV show kind of stuff. And so I saw a few of these this morning.

The Mandalorian and Grogo ad, I think, was incredibly effective. It feels very nostalgic. I think they kind of set it up to sound like a beer commercial or something. Like the narration. Yes, I can explain this for you. Okay. It is a Super Bowl ad, and so they know it's a Super Bowl ad. Yeah.

And what they're doing, and it's Sam, what's his name? It's the guy who does with the Deep Voice and the mustache, who does all the Budweiser ads. He was in Pox and Rec, right? Like, he played the, like, the hippie parks guy. I know who you think. Yeah, Sam Elliott, yeah. So it's Sam Elliott who does, who has done like Budweiser ads and stuff. Right.

Okay. And the Budweiser ads at the Super Bowl are often featuring the Clydesdales, which is like the symbol of Budweiser beer, is these big horses. So you see the hooves, and Sam Elliott is talking. And you're like, ah, it's a Budweiser ad. And I got it immediately, because I'm that sort of nerd that I saw the hooves. And I'm like, are those tauntons? And they are indeed taunton. So it's doing, yes, it's a riff on a Budweiser ad, except it's the Mandalorian and Grogu riding on a little tauntan.

sled thing. It's brilliant. And the music hits just right and you're like, oh yeah, I do love the Mandalorian. And the whole point, I mean, it's not, at the whole point is it's a Super Bowl ad to tell you, yes, there is a movie.

And Lauren turned to me and she's like, well, that's a movie? I'm like, yes, they're making a movie of the Mandalorian. That's why they have that ad is to pay, there is a Mandalorian movie. It's coming out in a few months. Pay attention to it.

I don't know why, but like the look of this has made me much more excited about the movie. Because I don't know if the movie's going to look like this, but this looks way more like the original trilogy than anything else. Like if there's a full, there's a full trailer on YouTube as a part of this. They've done some others, but there's a full trailer now. And what I would say about it is, I'm not sure it needs to be a movie. it does feel very much like the TV show, but I'm sure it's a bigger scale. There are snow walkers and there are a bunch of stormtroopers

and it feels very Star Warsy and I'm sure that the whole idea is if we're going to do a whole movie of this, we want it to be a fun adventure Star Wars movie except with the Mandalorian and Grogu. So we'll see. I love the show. The last season wasn't very good,

but I love the show and I love those characters. So if they just put those two on an adventure and they let Grogu do some fun stuff, which it looks like there's a scene where, in the trailer where Sigourney Weaver's in this movie, and she's sitting across the table from them and there's like a cup with stuff in it like a cup of food or something

and Groku does his little force thing to try to drag the food across and she puts her hand down on it and looks at him. It's like no no baby very funny so yeah I'm looking forward to it good trailer good teaser good reference to Super Bowl ads which is kind of what's going on there

I thought that was good. I liked the hoppers trailer I've known about this movie for a bit essentially somebody gets their consciousness put into a... Is it a gerbil, a hamster? I don't know. Squirrel? An animal. That's the whole...

That's the movie. And then it's just kind of like things... I'm sure there's reasons for it. Like, they don't really get into it in the trailer. But it just looks fun. And apparently this movie... Beaver is the answer. It's a beaver. That's it.

It's a beaver. This movie, people have been digging it, apparently. like from test screenings and no screenings and stuff. What I liked about this trailer specifically, because this is a Pixar movie, the animation style

feels a little bit more evolved, which I like. I think that this is, Pixar have not been doing to my memory, like a lot of like things that look like our world, right?

Like they did Elemental, which is very conceptual. I didn't see Elio. Maybe that was probably similar. But I just liked the way it looked. I thought it looked really good. And I'm into this movie.

And so there we go. You put in Project Hell Mary in here. I did not watch this trailer because I've seen enough of the, I saw the first trailer for this movie. I don't want to see any more trailers for this movie. Because I feel like there's like information. I feel like I got too much from the first trailer. You know what I mean? Like it's like, oh, you spoiled too much of this for me?

And I think I would like it. But did you like it? Did it look good? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I enjoy the book. I think this looks like a really good movie. there's been some complaints that there are twists in the book that are spoiled by the trailers,

but what I would say is they've got to sell the movie, folks. Like Pixar has had this issue where nobody goes to see their movies anymore, partially because they got trained out of it by the pandemic and putting things on Disney Plus. And so having Hoppers be an ad is sort of trying to, again, be like, yeah, there's a Pixar movie you want to see it. Project Hail Mary, you know, in the end, they need to convince people to watch it. And I think you can't hide the reveal of a plot point midway through the, movie less than midway through the movie in order to protect people when you need to sell them the movie. I would also argue, maybe I'm spoiling something here. I don't think I am. I would argue

there are other twists that happen after that that are fine. So I think it's going to be an enjoyable movie. I'm really looking forward to it. It's Andy Weir who wrote the book. So it's kind of like the Martian in a different context a little bit. This is a trailer I found this morning. I didn't even know it existed until this morning. Baseline. has made an Elvis concert movie based on found footage from Elvis's Vegas days. I watched the trailer for this and I became quite interested in this because the footage looks so good, it looks like it couldn't be real, but it is. But it looks incredible. Obviously, they have done a lot of work in restoring it and coloring it,

but I am very intrigued about this movie. I'm not going to go to the cinema for this movie, but I will definitely watch when it comes to home. Elvis gets the Beatles get back treatment, kind of. Yeah, and I think that's great. They're pulling something out of the archives. Yeah, and apparently this was footage that was rumored, and then it's been found.

But it just looks, like, the trailer just looks really, really good. And so I will look forward to that one. It's not a music movie, but I'll mention that there's a great movie called, Apollo 11 that's a documentary it's very similar where they found there's a bunch of

obviously footage of the moon landing but there's a bunch of stuff that has not been widely seen and there's a bunch of stuff that was basically buried in an archive and not seen ever

or not seen since the late 60s and they made a movie out of that and it's a similar kind of vibe this is a few years ago it's available people can watch it I saw it in IMAX but they shot a bunch of in like 70 millimeter.

It's just wild. And then you take modern techniques and clean it up and sync all the audio and all of that. And you can really take that. I love that genre of finding some really good old film. Yeah. And then cleaning it up and making a modern document of that thing from the past. That's a cool idea. And then just kind of like a few traditional ads.

I say traditional. not that. The Ben Affleck, Duncan, ad, which was basically a 90s comedy supergroup. I thought this was very strange and very fun. Yeah, I found it disturbing. There was also Jurassic Park ad that did the same thing. So apparently we're now at the stage where what we do is we do cultural references to the past and we take the actors as they are and we deage them to look like they did in the past. And we So it's a whole bunch of 90s sitcom stars interacting in a Duncan with Ben Affleck as Goodwill Hunting. And so, yeah, Jennifer Aniston and who else is in there? Jason Alexander. Ted Danson.

Ted Danson. And Tom Brady's there for some reason. Well, just because it's Duncan and it's Ben Affleck and all that. So I do wonder if this might have been perfectly fine if they were all in their present. ages. Yeah. Yeah. And it would have been a little less creepy, but whatever.

I thought the Jurassic Park ad was better in all circumstances. There's a Comcast ad where Jurassic Park just needed its router rebooted. I found the Jurassic Park one like more disturbing to me. Like the de-aging was more disturbing. Oh, I thought it was bad. I thought it was done better. I thought that was just better looking de-aging. But either way, I don't like, I don't love this trend.

I don't love it. Apple got a quick feature in the Cadillac ad. Cadillac F1 team revealed the look, it's called the livery, the look of their car in a Super Bowl ad, but really it was to let Americans know that a true-blooded American team that has two drivers, one's Mexican, one finish, but we don't worry about that. A true-blooded American team is coming to the grid, even though there is already one that people don't care about, but now there's going to be another one. Another one. But Apple get the rub because they got a little cross promo at the end of this.

Like, hey, watch it on Apple TV. So I think this was, I would expect this was a cross-branded marketing exercise. Yes. Between the two companies. I'm sure Apple kicked in. But, yeah, so at the end it swipes and it's F1 on Apple TV. And then there were just three others on with shout out. Instacarts is very funny.

Pepsi's is very clever. Oh, yeah, with the polar bears. stole the polar bear. And it's clever on a few levels. Polar Bear, they did the what is it, the blind taste, which apparently they've been having success with the Pepsi Challenge. And also, they went to great lengths to talk about the fact that it was all

made by humans with CG rather than AI, because Coke's been doing a lot of AI ads. Which is what Coke is doing, yeah, which is gross. So they're hitting it on all fronts. And yes, they are a sponsor, but Squarespace's ad with Emma Stone was brilliant. That was a great ad. Brilliant.

And I also can't believe that a company it sponsors us also does Super Bowl ads, but there we are. You know, we're all over the place. We're all over the place. I liked how bizarre the Ben Stiller ad was. Yes, the Instacart one, right? Yeah, bananas. That was really good in a, in just a very weird way.

So, yeah, sure. This episode is brought to you by Delete Me. Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everybody, vulnerable. Delete me will do all of the hard work of wiping your personal information from data broker websites. Delete me know that your privacy is worth protecting. Sign up and provide Delete Me of exactly what information you want deleted and their experts take it from there. This is one of the things that I love about Delete Me because obviously I am a person who has a

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promo code, upgrade 20 at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to J-O-I-N-D-E-E-M-E-E-com slash upgrade 20 and enter the code, upgrade 20 at checkout. One last time, let's join deleteme.com slash upgrade 20 with the code, upgrade 20. Our thanks to delete me for their support of this show and relay. Let's do some follow-up at this time of the show. I guess we might as well. Simon wrote in and said,

there was a rest of history episode where to discuss the economic impact of the Royal Navy in England hundreds of years ago and explaining why so many money-related terms are sea-related. Basically, the whole economy was around building and financing

the Navy for decades, hence why financial people used nautical terms so much. So that's why we were talking about it last week. Okay, yeah, I don't know if I've heard that. I mean, they talked about that a little bit in the Chatham High Street episode. Yeah.

because that's where the shipyards are. And the Navy, yeah, the Navy in England was, like, England basically didn't have an army, but they had this enormous Navy, and then the technology involved, and the, you know, the rope-making factories and the shipworks and all of that. So it's not surprising that it would trickle down. Maybe that's even a nautical term to economic concepts like financial headwinds and all of that. So it's great. We were just figuring it out ourselves.

we just pieced it together. It's all a metaphor for ships and pirates and stuff. Yep. Good for us. We spoke a while back about Google reverse engineering AirDrop for their pixel phones. They have now confirmed that it is going to be rolling out to more Android devices. So they're working with some of their partners to have them integrate QuickShare, which is Google's method, and having it work with this reverse engineered airdrop.

So, you know, we wondered if anything was going to have. happen there, would Apple try and stop it? Or would they just let it go? And it seems like probably just let it go. But they will now, I think, work into the scenario that we mentioned before where now it's going to be something they're probably going to, if it's going to roll, let's say Samsung has it, right? If Samsung has it at that point, a lot of people have access to this technology. At that point, it becomes harder and harder to justify if you break it. And so it's going to be really interested to see what happens, especially if they're now rolling it out.

It wasn't as much of an issue when it was just on pixel phones, but if it starts rolling out to some of the much bigger manufacturers, it's probably something they're going to have to at least be aware of and consider when they make any changes. Yeah. And Xcode 26.3 last week allowed developers to integrate with Claude and ChatGPT's coding agents, so the Anthropic Claude agent and ChachyPT's.

Kodekh Kodekhk. I think it is. Yeah, plug code and chat GPT codex. Yep, this is, you know, Apple has been trying to push better AI integration in X code for a while. They famously showed us stuff that they didn't ship for a very long time in 2024,

but what else is new? But they've been kind of on it since sort of mid, early to mid last year. And this is the latest update that is in the, I guess it's a developer build of 26, three, but it's going to roll out. And it is, you know, they are furnishing all the stuff that is required to integrate either of these or anything else.

But these especially since they are looking at your projects and all of that and building into X code. And people, I've seen people who responded, well, it's fine that Apple finally got there, but this has been going on for ages, which is not ages, because it's AI ages. But the point is Apple doesn't want to, these are, first of all, these are Apple's development tools. And so much development happens in Xcode. So you're hurting your platform and hurting your developers by not offering integration with these tools at the Xcode level. So that's really good that they did that. And I've seen developers who look at it and are kind of blown away by it.

Well, also, Apple, you know, if you don't do this, you're encouraging people to use third-party apps and just paste the code into X-code, which kind of like devalues your tool. So I guess if you're proud of you're a development environment, you should integrate these tools directly into it. So your developers don't need to open a chat chitpt codex window on the side and just copy and paste into Xcode. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you know, ongoing, and I'm sure there are issues, but also the Apple being there and having this, and I've seen developers react really positively to it. I mean, there's a lot of consternation in the developer world right now. Oh, yeah. Because there's a question of sort of like, who are we and what is our role in a world where AI can write code like this? And I know,

there are also people out there who are like, oh, I don't write, I don't write any code, but I can make an app now. And I'm sure you can. I am skeptical of how good that app is going to be, because even if you get the code right, there are other considerations when designing an app. But it's really interesting to see,

I wonder where that will go, but Apple needs to be present in all of this, because this is a thing that's happening. And so for them to do it now, I'll also say just for them to do it now and not like hold it for June. Yeah. Right?

Like don't just AI features for developers, you know, your time's wasting. You got to get out there. So they did it. Yeah. I think it's great that if they decided they were going to do this,

that they did it, right? They just did it because as you say, if you were to wait in another three months, wherever we're going to be in three months time, four months time, five months time as we get towards

WWDC season. But something I find interesting about this, like thinking about it. Like, well, inside, of Xcode, like Apple reference how the models can then

refer to and call Apple's latest technologies and APIs, right? Yeah. Which I would expect they maybe wouldn't do or wouldn't be as inclined to do if you were doing these things outside of Xcode. And it makes me wonder that like if this becomes a thing that more and more developers start using, is Apple going to see more adoption of the things it wants

people to be using? Oh, because they've made the effort. Well, I mean, the challenges, you've got to make the effort to cede it. In fact, one of the things that I've noticed, developers say, on Mastodon is it's way easier to build things, or let me phrase it this way, Swift UI is actually not as well supported and does not have as good results as the older frameworks do. And that's because there's an enormous corpus of information about the older frameworks. And Swift UI is newer and therefore doesn't have it. And other than time, the only other way to do that is for Apple to load in as much as they can. And documentation about new ways of doing things is another way that then it's like,

oh, I can use this API. And so the, you know, the code assistant will do that. And that, but Apple has to furnish that documentation and other information to get that to happen. It feels like there's an opportunity that could benefit everyone, ultimately. Yeah. And these, these things are great. I actually used Claude for the first time this week? Like in the terminal kind of thing? No, I used it in the app. Okay.

And pointed it at, I had a bug in my WordPress theme. Right. And so I pointed it at my WordPress theme and I said, here's my bug. What do you think? Yeah. And it, you know, it cogitated for a while.

And then it said, oh, this CSS statement is in the wrong place and references the wrong thing, and I will change that, and here's what I changed. And then I looked in my GitHub app, and it showed me the change,

and it was that change. And I previewed it on my development site, and it absolutely fixed the problem, and then I pushed it live. And it was just one of those things where I see the advantage of these kind of systems is they can look at your code base, which my code base is a WordPress theme.

It's not super complicated, but it's many files. And so for it to analyze it and know the pieces in various, things. And it's just a step up because previously I would take pieces of code or a file and say, can you look at this? And then it would say, I suggest you do this. And then I would make the change, right? And that's what's transformative about these bigger things is they can look at your whole project and make connections and make changes around like all of the files that are interconnected

in a project, which, you know, is much, it's a lot easier to use and it's much more functional than having to kind of hold its hand as you take it through, you know, little subroutines here and there, which is what I was doing before. So a couple of weeks ago on Upgrade Plus, we spoke a little bit about Tim Cook's seeming unwillingness to talk publicly about what's been going on in the States, specifically in Minneapolis of ICE. Right. Right.

And his attendance at the Melania screening the same day as the killing on the streets. Yeah. Yeah. So we spoke about that. You know, we spoke a little bit of. about our kind of frustration with that. And yeah, anyway, but I think it's obvious how we feel about these things. But what I wanted to talk about was the fact that since then, this seems to be becoming a

problem inside of Apple. So a couple of days later, he issued a memo, I think, an internal memo, which didn't really seem to go down very well. Yeah, when you, first off, first off, when you, first off, when you, you, first off, you have to release a memo, it means that whatever you did before didn't work. And when you then have to follow it up with a town hall meeting, also the memo, they were not, they were not picking up what you were putting down on that in your memo. So now we got to do a town hall. So you didn't do anything. Then it made you do it. He said nothing, which meant, oh, here's a memo. And then the memo went down like a lead balloon. So let's have a town hall of everybody. Right. Which somebody recorded and. transcribed and sent to Mark German.

Then again, as I've mentioned before, memos, town halls, you say these things in front of everybody, so somebody will leak it, right? Like you're trying to not have to say anything in public, so it will be said for you. This is a long quote, but I want to read

the transcript that Mark German published. So this is Tim. I've heard from some of you that you don't feel comfortable leaving your homes. No one should feel this way. No one. On a personal level, I am deeply distraught by what's happening. What I see and hear from people about the fear they are living with, it breaks my heart.

Every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect no matter where they come from. Immigration is important to this country. Immigration is important to this company. For as long as I can remember, we have been a smarter, wiser, more innovative company because we've attracted the best and brightest from all corners of the world. We have team members across the US on some form of visa. I'm going to continue to lobby lawmakers on this issue. You have my word on that.

I've always believed in dignity and respect for everyone, and I am grateful to work at a company where we all share these values. We stand for education and expanding access to opportunity. We stand for privacy, protecting the environment. These values have always guided us and always will. I just, I read it and I'm like, okay, right? it's like, okay, like you're saying some stuff. I think you're saying some things that are right,

like you're saying some stuff. Yep. But I just, I think we're, he's going to have to do something else because he's not saying it in public. That's all everybody wants. Say it in public. Take this and publish it on Apple's website, thoughts on immigration, you know?

Like, just do that. I think because what it is that's annoying people is he's not done that. Right? Like he's refusing to say in public what he is. is willing to say to the team so it will be leaked and he can be like oh i didn't want to say that out loud in a muted in a muted way that does not it's all passive right it's like these things are happening it's like you know who's doing them tim what's what is the cause of all these things that you're concerned about and the answer is the cause is the people who are in the room watching that

documentary with you after a guy got killed on the streets of minneapolis that's that's who the cause of this is, but he's like, no, oh, bad things. We don't like the bad things. We like better things. But it's just empty and meaningless. So, I mean, I, I, I, when this story came out, I texted you and Stephen Hackett and I, and then I just, with a link to the Bloomberg story and I just damaged control. Right. Like it's just, he's, all it is is damage control with his employees because they're deeply dissatisfied with his behavior. And I don't think that this fixes anything. And, and I think the article made the point, and even Tim Cook, made the point that Apple's got a lot of people who are immigrants working at Apple.

A lot. Apple has, and this is, okay, I think this is one of the things that legitimately has made America great is people from, I know some of them, people from all over the world dream of coming to Cooper Tino and working at Apple. Coming to the U.S. and working for Apple, it's like the big leagues. It's like I can make a difference on all these devices that people use all over the world. and I'm going to go to America and I'm going to be on this and so they get these brilliant people from all over the world who want to come to the United States

and work at Apple and work in the big leagues. So that's true and I think that poses a problem for for Tim because there's a real tension between that whole philosophy and the opinions espoused

by the people in power right now. And so it's a tough one for Tim Cook but this doesn't, this is just a lot of, of words. He's like trying to beat it into submission with words. Like maybe I'm a fool, but I believe that he lobbies for this stuff. I do believe it. But the problem is he won't say it. That's the issue. You won't say it. Yeah. And how is, and maybe you could argue, if you want to go down that route, you know, is he doing politics where he's trying to do,

he knows that if he makes it a fight in public with the administration, it's just going to be bad. And so what he's going to do is say things. But the problem is then what you're doing is you're whispering gentle words in the king's ear. So you're saying de-escalation. and like, okay, de-escalation, sure, but you also went to the documentary screening when there was blood on the streets of Minneapolis. Like, I just don't know what to tell you. Like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you.

There is always going to be an argument to be made, and this is the same argument Tim Cook has made about China over the years, is, oh, China is trying to create a surveillance panopticon, and it's trying to control its citizenry and control all the information that, comes to them and Tim Cook's like, well, you know, I feel like it's better. He literally said this. I feel like it's better if we're in there working with them than if we walk away. It's also much more profitable out of the way. He didn't say that part. Well, that's the old world lead of

you. That was the thing, right? That's people who said that for years. I think this is, well, right, because the whole idea was that if we, the more we engage with China, it was more likely to be open and democratic, which did not work, by the way. And I think if you, if you use that same approach in the U.S. I understand the idea here that the last thing you want to be is is considered an enemy by this administration because they will hurt you. And they will try to turn people against you and they will rail against you like your bad bunny. But at some point, don't you have to show some backbone at some point? And thus far, the answer is Tim Cook doesn't think so. So, okay. So be it.

Again, it's like, I think he is trying to show the most minimum, minimal amount of backbone, which is pointless to do. He's paddling. He is so trying to have it both ways. Yes. And he's just trying real hard to have it both ways. And I think he's learning faster and faster that he can't. And I don't know how they're going to do it. So like I got, I got a note that this town hall was happening because somebody thought something big was going to happen because it was apparently announced.

very last minute. Yeah. It's like, oh, Tim, Tim retiring or whatever. That's what this person thought. Because apparently, I don't know a lot, but like all town, all employee town halls are rare enough for them to be announced,

I think, to be happening on the day they're happening. Some people thought it was like, this person thought it was something big was going on. So, you know, they decided to, oh, we've got to, we've got to calm the troops. And it's like, well, no, this isn't going to do it.

like this is not what people want from him. And I don't, at this point, I don't know if he's going to give it. Nevertheless, there was another quote on this from completely. We're going to take a short left turn now. There was another quote from this town hall that I thought was really interesting because it is Apple's 50th year in business this year. And Tim spoke about that a little bit. So I want to read this quote as well.

I've been unusually reflective lately about Apple because we have been working on what do we do to mark this moment. 50 years. It's an extraordinary accomplishment. We've been going back through old archives, old photographs, we've been going back through the products and services to people and I'm struck by how much Apple has changed things, how much Apple has changed the world, how much Apple has given to the world. Are we going to celebrate it? You better believe it. We're not ready to say exactly how yet, so stay tuned. Yes, we're not a culture that looks back. So the group of people working on this have had to kind of build a different muscle for this, as our muscle is always about what's

next. We've really had to work hard on this to get it in a reflective state. But when you really stop and pause and think about the last 50 years, it makes your heart saying it really does. I promise some celebration. Is this interesting? I don't know what this means, but this, he references in this, right, about like Apple does not do this kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, I, I'm taken back to when I was able to interview Steve Jobs for the 20th anniversary of the Mac and the conditions were never, do not ask any questions about the past. And as we know, Apple doesn't comment on future products. So what the hell am I supposed to do with that?

Yeah. And he didn't want to be there. It was the worst interview I've ever done. But yeah, don't talk about the past. He'll do it. And I'm sure that was from Steve, right? He's like, I'll talk about it. I'll talk about the 20th of us or about referencing it is.

Because he said, we're not a culture that looks back, but we're working on it. We're building up some muscles to look backward. We're going to get our neck limber so we can look behind us. And we're going to, I mean, 50 years of Apple, it's a big accomplishment. there's a bunch of stuff going on. David Pogue has got an enormous book coming out that's the, you know, the first 50 years it's called, which is kind of hilarious. He seems to like that, I mean, I got some PR for that book, which I still need to look through. But the quotes from the PR person is saying that he had access to current Apple executives to ask him information. So I don't know if you've,

if you've read it or if you've read it. Okay, you've read the whole thing. I'm withholding, I'm withholding comment on it for now. I will write a review of it that you, will see somewhere. But I'm withholding comment on it for now. But you can confirm that piece of information. It is absolutely the case that there are people who currently work at Apple who are quoted in the book, were interviewed for the project by David Pogue. For sure.

I'm happy that they allowed that. I mean, he's the person, I think, he is one of the people you would have write that book, right? Yeah, I mean, when it was announced, I thought that that was a really great idea because I think David, because I edited David at Macworld for a while. And then he went to the New York Times. And he has, he's just a smooth writer. And he's really good at kind of like taking a kind of higher level.

And if you're going to write a more populist, popular history of Apple instead of it being, you know, super nerdy, I think he's the person to write it because that was my initial response is like, because he wants to kind of tell a good story and not necessarily get bogged down in the details that we might delight in about. you know, snow leopard or whatever. And so, but Apple's participation is very interesting, right? That means it's not quite an authorized history, but it's not unauthorized either. It is, it is, you know, they made some people who were still at Apple available to talk to him, which is rare. It's like, he didn't just talk to Scott Forstall and like, you know what I mean?

Like, he didn't talk to Scott Forstall, but he didn't, you know what? I'm sure he did. But he also talked to Phil Schiller, right? Like, I mean, that's, and simple Desai is in there, right? Like, there are, there are lots of current Apple executives who are in the book. No, I look forward to that. But yeah, I'm looking forward to what they do. It's going to be really interesting to see how Apple celebrates it.

Is this a public celebration? It's going to be interesting to see how they have all of that. Yeah, yeah, especially since they're not good at it. No, there's a, yeah, because they never do. What they did at the last major milestone, I forget which one it was, is they did a, like, a little, like a picture and a little video or something like that. And that's my guess about what this is, is that there will be a little inspirational something for 50 years. But who knows, it's uncharted territory in many ways for them. So we'll see what they do.

So it's April 1st. April 1st is the, Pokes got the details in his book. You'll be able to read about it. But it's actually kind of funny because they like, they like, they. They incorporate April 1st with the documentation, but then there's a later anniversary, which is sort of like when they filed other papers and stuff, but it doesn't matter.

Everybody counts Apple's founding as April 1st, 1976, when April Fool's Day, when Steve and Steve and, you know, and Mike Markula, I think, kind of put it together and said, we'll make this a business. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Factor. Cold days, big goals, and no time to cook,

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a nice array of high quality ingredients. I think that's part of the secret is that their ingredients are really good. And then I buy it for my mom. My mom gets a selection of factors. I think I'm doing every other work for her at this point. But like, because we're worried about her getting proper nutrition and she doesn't want to cook for herself really. So that makes it easy for her to get really good meals with protein and veggies and, you know, the whole spread. So it's, it's a, yeah, it's a winner. It's a winner. I wouldn't be paying for my mom just because they're a podcast sponsor. I'll just put it that way. I pay for my mom because we tried that we're like, this would solve my mom's problem. Head to factomails.com slash upgrade 50 off and use the code

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We'll start out Rumbra Roundup this week with something that I want to include because I find it pretty funny. Oh man. Upgrades in the news again. Again. Macromis is reporting that a previous. rumor that we shared from an anonymous source in November 24 may be coming true. Did you have that moment where you looked at the article and you're like, what is us? It was pretty funny because I'd started reading it. That wasn't why I read it. I started reading it.

Oh, new studio display information. Let's find my own name in the thing. And it's like, what did I do? So we shared information that we got from an anonymous informant that Apple was working on a new 90-Hod display panel that would be used in future products like iPads and a studio display. Mac Rumors is saying they have received information from an informant of their own, or a source, as they will say, that this is what can be expected from the Rumors Studio Display refresh. That is hopefully coming soon, that it will have 90 hertz as the standard. So my hope from this has always been that Apple were just going to bump up their lowest to 90, and everything else gets 120.

Yeah. Studio display at 90. I mean, look, I use a studio display. I have two of them. And I have a Mac with a Pro Motion display now. And Promotion is nice. On the Mac, it's less nice than it is on an iPad or an iPhone. Sure.

So I'm more interested in other aspects of the studio display, the new studio display, than its refresh rate. but if it's got a higher refresh rate so everything looks a little smoother, great, like great. If it's not 120, not sure I care that much. I mean, I want 120 because why not?

But yes. Why not? But I want more than 60 at this point. If the standard iPhone has it, I think we need to start pushing this out to these really expensive products. And also I just really want a studio display refresh, which we're going to talk about in a moment

because Mark Goldman is reporting at Bloomberg what the next few months are going to look like for Apple, so he has one of his big reports where he throws in a bunch of details. So the iPhone 17E is imminent. It will see an A19 chip. It will finally get MagSafe, which is the fact that they have put it in a year later, it even more begs the question of why it wasn't under 16E.

Why? What was the thinking? Like, I cannot fathom that. Mark says this will quote, have the newest in-house cellular and wireless chips. The fact that he did not say what this was suggests to me that maybe he's not sure

if it's the last released or it's new. You know what I mean? Like it's like, is it the one they just had or is it a newer version that maybe is going to roll out into other products throughout the year of the modem and wireless chips? So the way I read that

is that it's going to have the C1X or whatever it is that was in the fall models. Because remember the, the 16E had the C1. It was the first one. And then there was a mild revision, not enough for them to call it the C2 last fall.

So that's the way I read it. It's just literally it'll be the C1X and not the C1. Maybe it's the C2? I don't know. I mean, that's not how I read his report. Maybe. But that's that and then there'll be a C2X. Who knows?

My guess is it's the C1X. But we don't know for sure. It is a little perplexing. It's not a major change. a chip update. What I think the biggest thing about it and it was embedded in the name of the 16E is it's one year later and they're going to update it, right? Like bottom line, I think they've just decided this is part of that ongoing strategy that

we're going to see a year from now where they're doing more models with more refreshes and keeping them around less time and then updating them again. So I think that's, I think that's what's going on here. But the MagSafe, I agree, MagSafe, puzzling. Why wasn't it there before? Why isn't there now? It's great. Every iPhone should have it.

Yes. It had wireless charging, but it didn't have the magnets. It's like, why? Unbelievable. Why would you do that? I don't know. You even put the magnets in AirPods cases. You know what I mean?

Like, what are we doing? What is happening? No change of price. 599. And apparently the positioning for this is going to be like, hey, you get more for your money. Yep. Okay, fair enough. Yep.

There is an upcoming iPad and iPad air refresh, just faster processors. It would be the M4 for the iPad and the A18 for the iPad, which now means all iPads will run Apple Intelligence. Yes, right, right. That's a nice update for the, for the base model, the cheap iPad. Yeah.

But yeah, iPads all kind of got turned over, so they're just getting chip updates this time. Mark confirms again, or like reconfirms the iPad Mini getting an OLED display this year. It doesn't confirm anything on timing. And just reading this again in context.

I can't think what the pitch is for this product. Like, why is the why is the why does the iPad mini get an OLED display like what is

that then you know what I mean you know they want the iPad mini to be nice it's like a high end iPad in a small body also

smaller screen easier to do OLED cheaper to do OLED but like you see what I'm saying right it's like well the only iPads that have

OLED displays are the pros yeah and now the mini I think OLED's going to come to the air some point here.

Absolutely it will. But the Mini doesn't get refreshed as often, so they're going to do it this time. And also, it's really expensive, right? Like the Mini, price was. But it's just funny. Yeah, they got a bunch of different planes in the air, and they're dropping at different points. And now is the time to get iPad Mini OLED because then they're going to have it there

for a couple of years. So that kind of makes sense to me. Also, iPad Mini is a reading device for a lot of people. Yeah. And I think having an OLED for a reading device is better. Yeah, I can already see the stories that people will write and talk about on podcasts. I bought an iPad Mini to be my new e-reader, and I love it. You think they're going to do a, oh, if they do a nanotexture display on the iPad Mini.

Hey now. Hey now. That would be an interesting reading device, wouldn't it? Oh, hey now. OLED nanotexture iPad Mini. $9,000. I just said the magic words to Mike. Yeah, yeah, but still.

It would be very interesting. I wrote a story about there was a TCL Android tablet that I tried that was in their next paper line which is basically it's an LCD screen but they've got a non-glare coating on it that makes it paper-like. And I didn't love it because in the end

it's just an Android tablet but there is some I think e-readers are a very I love them niche product. I think an iPad that is more functional than an e-reader, but has a really nice, like, an OLED screen and a nanotexture display, maybe.

I think for a lot of people, that is the media consumption. Man, if they made a nanotexture OLED iPad Mini, that thing would be so sweet. Have you spent any time with the nanotexture iPad Pro? Any amount of time, a very small amount. out of time. Yeah. I only saw one in the like the hands on at the event that they did in

London and I was really surprised at how good it looked. So yeah. It looks great. I just bought an M5 iPad Pro and I did not get the nanotexture and that's mostly because I never find that glare is an issue for me because I'm rarely using it in any situation where there's glare. Yeah. If I was, I would get it

because it does look good but I just there's cost and then it does degrade the experience even just a little tiny bit and I felt there was no need. But yeah, it's, it's very impressive. I always write this in my articles. I used to work where in an office where my desk had a giant windows right behind me. And I had a MacBook Air with a glossy screen and I had a Thunderbolt display with a glass non-textured screen. Like this, this stuff is so amazing if you're in an environment, you can't control like that. I just, I don't personally have a need for it in my life right now, but it is amazing.

I've got a MacBook Pro. They sent me the M5 MacBook Pro, the low-end model with a nanotexture display. And like, it looks so good. Again, not sure I need it, even though I do work outside sometimes. But it would give me pause. If I was buying my MacBook Pro again, I might actually consider nanotexture on it because the only time I really use it is in environments that I can't control. So it's great tech, great tech.

Do you know if on the laptops they're using the same process they use on the iPad? Because it's different to what they did on the studio display. Because the studio display was a physical change to the glass. Like they put like etches in it, I think. Yeah. But the iPad was a chemical treatment that they did. I don't, I think it's the same as the iPad. It would make sense that that seems like.

the way to do it, right, rather than trying to do it physically because you have so many downsides from that. That's when the polishing cloth became a thing because you couldn't just use any cloth on the pro display. You had to use, and they gave you the cloth because you could damage the display. But obviously you couldn't do that with iPad. That would be a disaster if you couldn't touch the iPad. So yeah, okay, fair enough. MacLine. MacBook Pro, MacBook Air will be getting M5 updates, likely at the beginning of March. There will be an M5 update to the Mac Studio. Mark mentions

that a studio display update is coming. He says it, quote, looks quite similar to the current one. Sure, but I mean, does he know about 90 hertz? Jason, you know what I mean? Like, you can say. That's a question. And the low-cost MacBook is still on the roadmap for the first half of the year. And he says the screen

will be under 13 inches. And that's not what I was expecting, right? We were talking about it being 13, I think this is right, right? Because it's the M1 What's the size of the M1 MacBook Air screen? I thought that was 13. I think it's like 12.

Oh, is it 12.9? I think the new one is 13.3 from Yeah, but that's exactly it. It's going to be the screen from the M1 air. It's that size. I mean, everything I get out of this is that this is the M1 air. Right?

with a new chip in it. Now, maybe it won't look the same. Maybe it'll be a little different. Maybe there'll be tweaks about it. But, like, all the vibes it's giving off are that this is, you know, what do we do after selling the M1 air at Costco and Walmart? And the answer is, actually, not a Costco. I was in Costco the other day. And they had like a good MacBook Air.

I mean, the M1 is good, but like a modern MacBook Air. I don't know whether it was the M5 or not. but yeah so I think it's going to be the M1 I think it's 13.3 the M1 2020 13.3 inches oh so I don't know what this is what it stood out to me is like well what is that

then huh well that's interesting is it an iPad display like essentially like a 12.9 or something yeah maybe it is if it's under 13 that's interesting yeah I okay well I take it all back then so it's it's going to be lesser in another way and so this

to me, if he's right, so I'm double-checking on Apple's website, yes, the M1, 2020, 13.3 inches is on their compared page. So if it's under 13, well, what is that then? And so is this potentially going to be something new? 12-inch power book confirmed. That's what I'm saying, you know? That's what I'm saying. I don't think so. My guess is that, I mean, as a user of MacBook Airs, I will just say, even on the 13-inch MacBook Air, it feels a little like Apple barely supports a screen that small. So I don't think they can go down much further,

which is why my guess is that it'll be a 12.9. They're going to use the 11-inch screen from the iPad. They can use the iPad Mini-Oled. It's going to be a 7-inch to 7-inch Mac. There you go. Look forward to it. It's going to be great. 12.9. Yeah. That kind of makes sense.

12.9. But that, if it is 12.9. right, if they're using a 12.9 inch screen, that would suggest to me that we may see a purpose built body for the computer. So it might look different. I'm excited now. This is an exciting detail to me because this is like we had some, oh, we know what it's going to be. So that's one less M1 air vibe than we had before. Yeah. I think that's great. My skepticism is mostly just that it costs money to do redesigns

and the fewer things you redesign the better. But it's also true that the M1 Air is so old at this point that it's probably got a lot of parts in it that like aren't being made anymore. Well, you can look at its analog, I'm not enough for the right word. The 17E got a design. I was going to say, is a fresh design. The 17E. 16E is a good analog right. 16E is a new design, but it feels real familiar at the same time. Because they like, we're going to do this and we're going to use it for a really, really, really, really long time. So you use, that is, that is a classic Apple move. Is you build it. you build a new thing.

You build it out of modern components, but the cheap ones. And it replaces a product that is out of old components. And the reason it's old components is it's been in the product line a long time. And you replace it with a new thing that's got all the modern stuff. And you're like, oh, I can't believe they put all this modern stuff in this computer. And it's like, yeah, we're going to keep selling this until 2030. So we got we got to use stuff from 2025 or 2024.

We can't go back to 2020 anymore. I think that's the reality of it, right? It's if you start to think this is a computer that we don't want to redesign again for another three or four or five years, then, yeah, you get it up to speed. And then when it first comes out, you're like, oh, it's so modern. But it has to be modern because it's going to last forever. Let me just throw us out there. I don't believe what I'm going to say, but I just want to get it on the record. Okay.

Touchscreen? No. I'm just saying it. 100% no. I just words I've said. I don't say and I believe it. Oh, then I'll reply. this way. I'll say touchscreen, yes, that's going to be coming

in the M6 MacBook Pro this fall. Touchscreen? I've just said it. I've just saying the word touchscreen, you know, and people can do whatever they want with it. Speaking of which, Olaid touchscreen, MacBook Pro, come by the end of the year, foldable iPhone, iPhone 18, 18 Pro Max. These are things we knew. And the iOS 26.4 beta is slated to be released during the week of February 23rd, so that it's two weeks from now.

And this should include some Siri updates. Yeah, that's going to be. And the reason that the developer beta matters is because when they release that developer beta, that's when they talk about it. Because that's when the public can get it, even though it's marked as a developer beta,

that's when it's out there and everybody's going to talk about it. This is the classic, like, the reality of the internet that it used to be, Apple would be like, sh, don't say anything until we release it as final. And that never happened, right? Like, as soon as it's in a build that is available,

everybody's going to talk about it. And so over the last few years, Apple's just embraced it. And their drop of the developer beta is when they announce the new features that are in that OS. And this is going to be potentially a really huge one. So I'm looking forward to how they message that and what's in there. Because I mean, I would maybe say this is the biggest OS drop outside of WWDC that we've seen in quite a while. I will say it is the most consequential. it might be one of the most consequential

OS releases in modern history because of the expectation and kind of discourse built around 20, well, what was iOS 18? Was it 18? Was it 17? Which was the one that was supposed to have this stuff in it? At this, at that point. Was it, it was WWC 2024, so it was iOS 18, 17.

18. So, like, were this far removed what is this going to have in it? 17. 17. I don't even know. It doesn't matter. But this was supposed to come out a long time ago.

What drops? Does it work? If it does, how good is it? All of this stuff, I'm excited for this. My expectation is there will be a bunch of pre-briefed stories that drop at the moment that this beta comes out. Because I would just be surprised if they let the news story just, just occur to people as they start installing it. Not sure that that's really the way

that we're looking for this. 18. It is 18, not 17. I think we should just start calling them 24 and 25 retroactively. That would be not confusing at all. So, yeah, I don't know. I have, you never talk about the future,

but I will say in the past, when they've done these features in developer releases, there have absolutely been briefings. So I would expect that they will have, whether I get one or not, I don't know, but I have in the past, and I would expect that people will. Because Apple wants to, look,

Apple wants to control the narrative. Absolutely. One of the reasons they hated when they would release developer betas and people would leak them and write about them is that they didn't get to, they weren't saying anything about it. And so the narrative was just completely taken out of their hands.

And what they want to do is talk to you, right? They want to talk to you and say, here's the story we're telling. And then that gets relayed and they get to be part of the conversation. Yep. And finally, Mark Goeman is reporting that Apple are scaling back their initial plans for an AI powered health app. This is something that has fallen by the wayside due to Apple

intelligence changes. We spoke about this in the past of like they were building some models and now the software org is like, no more customer models. We're using Gemini for everything, or like Apple's Foundation models for everything, power by, whoever it's powered by. But then also the leadership reshuffle that saw

the health kind of services team for Eddie Q. Apparently Q wants the health, like he said this was not good enough. Yeah. I love this story because I mean we have a lot of fun with Eddie. Yeah. Right?

Because he's a character. Yeah, he is. but he's also a very successful executive. And deal maker. And deal maker. And what I like about this is Eddie Q sweeps in here and he's like, what's this, what's this health plus thing? And he's looking at it and he's like, no, this is no good.

Let's just put a bunch of stuff back in the app, which I also, as a user, I really like the idea of like, hey, we shouldn't. Hey, services executive here. This is a half-bake service and probably these features just need to be in our app are because you and I would agree, Mike. Apple, we've talked about it in the upgradeies, right? Like, Apple's health features need to be better. Way better. And the idea that they're bad and the solution is that they stay bad, but then they

introduce a service that makes them not bad. I mean, I'm not going to go back on my rant about the I Work apps, but it's the same sickness and malaise, which is your fundamental product has to be. be good. It has to be good. And then you offer a service that adds on to that, that there's a reason why people have to pay a subscription fee for it, because it has actual costs. You know, there's a reason why it's extra. What you can't do is become a company that ships things that are lousy and then charges for them to not be lousy. That, that degrades the, this is a hill I will die on. That degrades the entire product, right? Like, I was, okay.

going on a tangent here just for a second. I was on vacation last week. And we decided to stay not at like a condo rental. We decided to stay at a basically a resort. And we're cheap skates, right? So this is, it's more expensive, a little bit. And while I was there, I was thinking about Apple, as you do, I couldn't get entirely away from it.

And this is what I was thinking, which is, I know, I can't. can't help it. Whenever I'm, I'm anywhere, I'm thinking about, like, what goes into the business of this thing, right? I just, I'm fascinated by that. So it's like, okay, I don't know nothing about hotels. But what goes into the business of this in terms of the soap, right? The towels, the thickness of the robes, the service at the pool. Like, what goes into that in terms of the decisions they make about, and this is my point, how nice is it? And here's the thing, right?

Like, I'm sure there's an executive somewhere at, we're at a Sheraton, so Marriott. I'm sure there's an executive in Marriott, a whole team of executives at Marriott, who are looking very closely at their profit margins. But if you're an executive who says, here's what we're going to do, we're going to make all our hotels terrible. And people are going to be miserable when they stay there. And we're not going to stock soap. And they're going to bring their own soap. But we're going to save so much money. all the other executives are going to be like, are you kidding?

Like, we have to be, the whole point here is people pay us a lot of money to stay at a nice place. And paying for the stuff is part of the deal there. We make a lot of money on this thing, undoubtedly, but we do it in part by making it a nice experience. And if you degrade the experience, then people won't pay to stay here. And I thought immediately about Apple, which is the same argument, which is, you can't you can't just say welcome to the iPhone

you paid $1,000 for it it's crappy, but if you pay us money we'll make it not crappy. Like that is so antithetical to Apple's whole product philosophy and it's the wrong thing for anybody to do. And so I don't know how this is going to go

but when I look at Eddie Q come in and say, what are we doing with Health Plus? These should just be features in the health app. Some of them and others of them are no good and we'll just go back to the drawing board for them. I'm actually encouraged

because that's what Apple executives should be doing right now is they should be looking at their base product and saying, is this product good enough? Not saying, let's take the things that are going to make our product good and put them behind a paywall because that is a mistake for a company like Apple because these products are the,

I'm not even going to say luxury accommodations, they are the nice accommodations of technology. The whole idea here is you get an iPhone or a Mac and it's nice. or an iPad and it's nice. And if you shift your mindset to be, I don't want it to be nice. I want it to be an upsell to the nice thing.

You know, services revenue is great, but you got to do the base level first, right? So I don't know how it's going to work out, but I love Eddie Q basically saying, this is bad and this stuff, and this other stuff should just be in the app. Why are we,

it seems very sensible. It seems like the exact right thing to do. We don't know the details of it, but there it is. So we'll see. Yeah, he says that, like, he wants them to be more competitive with their competitors in the wellness market. Companies like URA ring, Oro ring, yeah, and Woop and companies like that. And he's just like these, what they were building, he says did not meet the bar.

It really has the vibe to, I mean, who knows, but it has the vibe to me of a team that was so focused on where Apple, we're just building stuff. And that somebody came in with a fresh breath of reality and was like, no, you were behind. Like nobody wanted to say how bad the health app was. Yeah. They're like, but we've got all these things and we're building the service. And Eddie Q came in and said, are you kidding? And like, and this is what I was saying, when we talk about executive changes, this is one of the reasons executive changes are good. In this case, executive has been around forever, but he hasn't been in charge of this.

this is why executive changes are good because it allows somebody to come in with fresh eyes and also without ego invested in the previous decision making and say this is no good, we need to change. It's super important. It's actually one of the reasons I'm optimistic about the future of Apple is because they're going to have a lot of turnover.

And I think there's a lot of kind of like well-held opinions that have never been revisited happening where if you get somebody new, they give you, I mean, the example I always give is Tim Cook coming in and doing non, you know, employee donation matching the day after he took over.

It's like, it just, sometimes it just takes a new person in there to say, oh, no, we're not going to do it like that anymore. So I may be reading too much into this, but I love the report that EDQ came in and said, this isn't good enough because I want to hear more of that. So, you know, they say stuff like some features like this, content that they made that they'll use and maybe some AI-powered suggestions for the health app,

which I've said that should just be in the app. You're completely right. You shouldn't charge for that stuff. It's not enough to charge for. Come up with something worth charging for if you're going to charge for it. This episode is brought to you by one password. It's easy to assume that being small means flying under the radar, but the reality is that small businesses are being targeted more and more by bad actors. Cybercriminals know that lean teams can lack the resources to prevent or respond to a breach. Teams of any size can be a target, but the good news is even the smallest teams

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Little guy? I would love it. I've been saying I would love them to do a little pencil for a while now. I will say in the e-reader market, pens for like little note-taking pen things are all the rage. Part of that is the e-reader market is trying to find people who are not just book readers. And so having people who can take notes and stuff like that,

that's not just like they're remarkable. It's like all like Kobo and Kindle. Like everybody's got a pen. So I think that would be interesting, right? especially if we view it as kind of like an iPad mini when it's open. My gut is that they won't do it because they haven't done it up to now, but this would be a product where they could do it. Yeah, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure that the fold will have a pencil support to it. I think, I mean, it all depends on how strong that screen is, right? Do you end up creating a scenario where, you're adding in potential for damage. Like, it's going to be, I'm going to be keen to see what the strength of that screen is. That I think is the real question here, right?

Which is, um, you add anything to that thing. Is it just like, like, I feel like everything's on a razor's edge with that thing. So to add, add pencil support at all might be too much for this version of it. But, um, I think it's a great direction because I do think the idea that you've got a little

notepad and you can open it up and you can write. Like, I think that's a cool extra use that, into the whole iPadness of the phone, which I think they want to do, but technically it may not be possible. John says, how do you predict the future of garage band,

garage band? I said that in multiple weird ways. All right. Garage band. Garage bond and Imovie in the wake of Create Studio. Bond. Garage bond. Garish Bond.

I don't know. Apple likes having like low-end non-pro creative apps, I guess. And so predict the future. I think they'll just kind of keep the low ebb of whatever they're doing around. And that'll be just what they are. I don't think it's going to be more than that. I just, I want, I want Apple to make in the creator studio an app for podcasters.

Just a focused podcast recording and editing app. Apple should make that. Yeah. that would be great. You connect over FaceTime, you can record your audio, share it between people, and then you have a simplified

audio editing suite. That's what they should make. Garage Bond used to have this in it, right? Like it had like a... It did, and they took it out. They took it out. They removed podcasting features from garage band.

And like the reason he took it way is because people weren't making podcasts on mass, right? Now they really are. One of the, one of the things, well, and they obviously don't want that product to have those features because I wrote a piece for Macworld long before I left Macworld that said, you could add these three features to GarageBand and it would be the perfect podcast editing app. And guess what? They never added any of those features. Even though it's based on logic now, they never added any of those features. Now, I would argue with this. point, you put, you put them in the, in the creator studio, right? You'd put them in Logic or you'd

make another spinoff. Logic could just have a podcasting mode. But whatever, they just are not interested in that. So that's where we are. I just want them to do it. Like, make a little podcast app. It'd be so good. Anyway, Sam says, would you expect the CEO executive transition to be announced before or after WWDC and what would you imagine to be Cook and Ternis's roles respectively in the keynote in either case? I don't know.

I guess I'm going to predict that it's going to happen I'm just off the top of my head. I predict it's going to happen toward the end of the year after the iPhones are out and any other products are released out toward November or December. It'll be a late in the year kind of thing. And that will be the transition point. I think once Cook is the chairman,

John Ternis is going to do the intro, but he may also introduce products a little more Steve Jobs-like, or he may not. But I think once Cook is not the CEO, we will not see him in a video again. Wow. That's an interesting. Okay. I just, why would the chairman of the board be in a, in a video? I just don't, I don't see it. He's not the chairman, chairman, but I get your point, right? Like, again, he, you know, he's not like the current, I wouldn't expect the current chairman to pop up. Elevinson appears. Hello, everybody. I'm Martha Levinson. Welcome to the Apple. You know, I wouldn't rule it out that we may see him, but I don't think he would be like the presenter.

I do expect, if it doesn't happen before WBC, I expect John Ternis's role to be Craig Federigi like in its amount. Yeah, more visible. At WDBC and others. And I actually do think when he becomes CEO, he will be more jobs. like in presenting some product stuff. It depends in part on who they've got. Like, do they like him as a presenter? Which I think they do. I mean, he does it now, right? He does it.

He does it. He does it. He does it. He does it. He does it possible. Which is, I guess that would be the counter argument is if you still want John Turner's to present some stuff, you might lead with Tim Cook just doing an intro, even if he's the chair, because he's just sort of like, hi, everybody, it's Tim. John's got a great program and here it is. But I think more likely he'll just disappear in the. The question is, how much does John Turnus do?

But he might do... I'll put it this way. We remember how much jobs did and how little Tim Cook does. I would say, Ternus will almost certainly do more than what Tim Cook does because he is a product guy. Like, I could imagine, say, the iPhone, right? I don't think we'll see Jaws anymore. Oh, interesting. Right.

I think that my expectation would be, you would see Ternus at the beginning. He would throw off to everybody else and it would come back around to the pro and, and, you'll turn us shows off at night. Because I think let's not take away the opportunities for other people, different faces, but like love Jaws. We don't need Jaws in that moment.

Right. Like he's not like a new face. He's not like an up and comer in the organization. So you can replace him and be fine. He could do a segment of some sort, but it's all being led by Ternus. I think that's a good scenario. But if I had to pick right now, based on nothing other than we feel this is coming but we don't know when my my feeling is more

get past w wdc and get past the iPhone launches in the fall and then bring him in but um you know anything could happen that's just a complete shot in the dark i'm gonna throw out a better prediction in just the word touchscreen right uh low bar the iPhone fold all turnus yeah right right jose does the and Pro Max and then we throw out to John and John shows off the iPhone Fold. He will be the person. I mean, he may not say the words, right?

It might go to Tim to say the words, but the person who will show it to us and demo it and talk about it, that will be John Turner. That's what I think. That'll be the one more thing. Yep. Speaking of which,

final question today, Logan wrote in and it says, do you think that iPhone Fold will actually be called iPhone Fold? It feels like Apple could go for a cooler name, perhaps something like iPhone passport or iPhone

I don't think those are the names either. I've been thinking about this, right? Fold says what it does and follows the convention set by Samsung, right? Like, it is a thing that we understand. But by counterpoint to this is, I was very surprised by the name Vision Pro. Like, that was not, no one had that name. You know, like, I can't even remember what we thought it was going to be called now. but we all thought it was going to be called a thing.

What do you think, naming? What do you think? I think fold is the most likely only because it does what it says on the tin. Yep. But I think it's probably, I think it's probably something else. Because here's my thinking as well. It was like, yes, it does say that. Does Apple think this will be the only product?

that they ship with a folding screen, right? Because if you think you might ship a different form factor as well, like I have two phones, or if you think you may ship a folding iPad one day or a folding laptop, it would not make sense to have a product called fold. And by the way, we've had this before, this question of like,

well, why wouldn't you just call it like something else or iPad or something like that? And the answer is because it's got to be an iPhone. It's an iPhone. It's an iPhone. Because it's iPhone. Yeah. because it's the biggest product in the world.

It's going to be iPhone something. Yeah, I don't know. I've been, I didn't see this question. I've been running through my head, like, other phrases. Because what we need to do is you put together, like a little brainstorming session where we talk about, like, I'm, we were all taken by the idea that if,

if the dimensions are what we think they are, it's a little squatter and wider and it's a little more like a notebook that opens. But notebook has sort of been taken. iBook iPhone book. But folio is not terrible and that's a word that Apple has in its lexicon. And there may be some others too. I think Federico said duo. He came up,

it was a name that he put out there. But like again, it's like things. They're just like other things you can say. Yeah. I just, so that's where I am right now is I think iPhone Fold is the most likely name for it, but I would put its chances at under 50%.

because I feel like it's so does what it says on the tin that I think Apple will probably strive to be better and to use a word that explains something about it. But I'm at a loss right now. I'm going to have to do some more brainstorming. I'm at a loss right now for how else this name could go. But, you know, and maybe it is just a superlative.

That's the other thing is it really could be iPhone. Ultra or something like that. But I think Fold is the most likely. I just think it's probably something more clever than that that we haven't thought of. Yes, I agree with that completely. If you would like to send us in a question for our future episode, go to UpgradeFeedback.com,

and you can send in your own Ask Upgrade question. You can also send in your follow-up as well, if you have any for us. I would like to thank our members to support us every week with Upgrade Plus. They get longer ad-free episodes of the show each and every week. Today we're going to be talking about a T incident that happened to Jason this morning

that he started to tell me and I said stop telling me this story. I want to hear it for Upgrade Plus, so that would be fun. Go to GetUpgradeplus.com to find out more. You can find us on YouTube by searching for Upgrade Podcast. Thank you to our sponsors, One Password, Factor and Delete Me. But most of all, thank you for listening. Until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snow. Goodbye, Mike Hurley.