Upgrade - 605: The 2026 March Experience Draft

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

From Relay, this is Upgrade, episode 605, and it is a draft day. Today's episode is brought to you by Century, FitBod, Squarespace, and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason. Bring in the marching band. I love it. You love to hear the marching band. It is that time. I have a Snell talk question for you, though, because we have usual business to get to before the draft today. This question comes from Matthew, and it is one of the rare Snell talk follow-up questions. Oh, boy. Following up to Jim's PV.

That's what it stands for, right? Yes, STFU. Still talk. Slow up. STFU. It doesn't mean anything else. Nope. Matthew says, follow up to Jim's P-B and jelly question.

What kind of jelly does Jason use? I assume grape, as Jason mentioned, purple goo. But are there other acceptable kinds or what about jams? Okay, first off, this is not robot or not. We're not going to talk about what is acceptable. That is a different podcast. I will tell you what I have for my PB&J. And my purple goo that I'm referring to is actually Blackberry preserves.

And I will also sometimes get strawberry preserves. I put links in the show notes to the ones I buy in America. Bon Mama. But there are many others. I prefer the preserves to the jelly. When it gets too much of that jelly consistency, where it feels like a, you know, it's on its way to being what the British call a jelly,

which we would call jello, when it's like super gelatiny and all that. And chunky and it holds together. I don't actually want that. I just want kind of fruit goo. So that's when I said purple goo. I actually meant Blackberry preserves. Essentially what you were having is more like jam,

what I would call jam. Yeah, yeah. And there is a technical reason why preserves jam and jelly are different, but it doesn't matter and I don't care. So the blackberry and strawberry are my preferred flavors. So there you go. Go forth and make PB&Js, but just remember to put the peanut butter on the outside

and the jelly on the inside. Thank you so much to Matthew for that STFU. If you would like to send in your own Snell Talk question for us to open a future episode of the show or follow-up, you can always go to UpgradeFeedback.com and send it in. Of course. We do have other follow-up. We do.

As foretold, Kieran Healy has performed a statistical analysis of the Six Colors Report Card. Is there anything in here that jumped out at you that people should go take a look at? I just, you know, it's fun when he does the charts. He's trying to visualize that data in a certain way. I give Kieran access to the numerical data. What I found funny this time is he actually, he did a little of that, but mostly he threw it away and went to the verbatim responses that people did and did a bunch of sentiment analysis. Look, this is Kieran having fun following his muse.

Kieran does this because he wants to. He started. He was like, Jason, I looked at this, and I have interesting thoughts, and I was like, I'll send you all my data. And now for years, he's sort of been doing this. And it's just fun. Kieran, for those who don't know is a professor of statistics or sociology. He's a statistics expert.

He's a professor of sociology at Duke University. Has written multiple books about charts and things. And, like, friend of the show, absolute bankable. friend of the show. But I love this because he was like, what if we do some sentiment analysis based on the words he used? Using a couple of different techniques

in the words people wrote, not the numbers they gave. And I thought that was interesting. He also has a few funniest sides where he talks about like, the panel is big enough that you can kind of like get a clue, but it's not so big that you can take

as much from it as maybe you otherwise could. But he did try to pin down if people who were really, really down on Apple's world impact score were also down on sort of everything else Apple was doing, which was like a theory we had that he heard us talk about last week. And, you know, he said, you know, you be the judge, but it looks to me like probably. That is the answer.

But anyway, it's a fun post with lots of charts. And if you like, I just think it's fun to have somebody who is so knowledgeable about this stuff, take a spin through the data and just see what jumps out of them. I like peering inside Kieran Healy's brain for a minute, just a minute. So, yeah, it's great. You also answered for your rascally nature on this week's episode of the talk show. I did. I did.

John Gruper wrote a post last week saying he was listening to Upgrade and he got to the part where I was a rascal and I gave the Mac five out of five and defended Tahoe and he wanted to strangle me. And since I'm going to see John this week at the Apple Experience in New York, we decided to do an episode of the talk show to bury the. the hatchet and he doesn't want to strangle me anymore. So that's good news. That's good.

I got to explain myself and explain that really my act of rascalliness was the difference between giving it four and giving it five. I do believe, you know, I think there's a lot of Tahoe that is of a benefit and the stuff that's wrong with it. I don't disagree that it's wrong. I just, it's not enough for me to not use it. You know, so I tried to explain that a little bit more. John obviously disagrees, but that's fine.

I mean, I think we disagree less than you would think. And yeah, me being a little stinker like Stuart Wellington on the flop house sometimes, being a rascal, is more about when I said five instead of four, right? Because there's the fun, measured, simple, like, oh, it's four, you know, there are issues, but, and I gave it a five mostly because I was like, I mean, I believe it, but maybe maybe that was a bold statement. Anyway, it was a good, good chat. It's not three and a half hours long, so people can check it out. Listen before the Apple event on Wednesday, because it'll be kind of more out of date by then, I think. And no baseball talk, so hooray. That's why it's only two hours and 15 minutes long.

Right. No baseball or keyboards or anything. We kind of stuck to the topic. And I feel like we did a really nice thread, narrative thread through it. A lot of the stuff was connected about sort of like, what's going on at Apple and what's right and what's wrong about it. I did get some unhinged feedback from it where I complained about the IWork apps not fitting in the creator's studio and somebody decided that that meant I said that writing is not

a creative act. I guess because of pages, which first off, I don't even view pages as a writing app. I guess you write in it. I view it as like a thing you use for like invoices and cat lost posters. I don't really think it's a tool that a lot of people that will call themselves writers would use? I don't know any professional writers who say pages is my main axe. I just don't.

Anyway, that person was kind of unhinged, and I replied to them, and they replied back with something even more unhinged, and then I blocked them. So that person is gone. You can't. No, I mean, if that person, look, bottom line, that person, I think, was just trying to defend Apple from me daring to suggest that what Apple did was bad. I did find it funny that he said, I can't believe you said to John Gruber, a professional writer who's been writing all day for, for 20 years that writing is not created.

I'm like, well, first off, I am also a professional writer. Second off, professional writers don't write all day. I'm sorry, whatever you think. We're not sitting in pages pushing characters into the cursor on pages every day. But so it was, it's like, what are you talking about? This is my, this is my profession. Who do you think I am? But this guy took a shot at me for getting a, he was like, ironically, you got a journalism degree, which says a lot to me because it says that he has no idea who I am and looked at my Wikipedia page so that he could throw some shade at me.

Because it does mention where I got a master's degree in my Wikipedia page. So well done. Anyway, but I think we had a great conversation that threaded user experience issues with Tahoe and the I work app. discussion and sort of like all of these issues being kind of like fundamental to what's facing Apple right now in terms of problems with the quality of what they're doing. Also, I have a little follow up of my own, which is I said on the talk show and I think on upgrade, I've been talking about people I know who have refused to upgrade to Tahoe. And I keep mentioning John Gruber and I keep mentioning Marco Arment. And I got a correction. because Marco, and I knew this going into the talk show, but I didn't say it because it was too complicated. So I'm going to say it here, which is I know Marco finally updated to Tahoe because he had issues with development and he needed to upgrade to Tahoe.

But I did also get some important feedback from John Syracusa that I'm leaving him out because John Syracusa also refuses to update to Tahoe. And so I want that out there. I want it on the record. John Syracusea also not on Tahoe. I wonder who gave you that feedback? John Syracuse gave you that feedback. So I should have mentioned him as a laggard. I thought that the fact that he's still using an Intel Mac would strongly imply that there are so many things that he's not doing, but he is also not updating to Tahoe.

I regret the omission, John Syracusa. I mean, I just had to check. I mean, I wasn't sure. And yes, the Mac Pro is still compatible, the 2019 Mac Pro. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Congratulations to John. Yeah, it is. It is.

But he's not doing it. He's not, his Intel Mac Pro is not running. Tahoe. Did he give a reason why to you? Do you want to state it on the record? No, but I, not to put words in his mouth, but my guess is the reasons are apparent. And actually you can read what he wrote about Tahoe in the report card. And it's very clear what his reasons are.

He said it's the worst. That's the short version of it. He said it's the worst. Literally the worst. So I assume he's using it somewhere then. Yeah, he's, he's probably. I think he's got it on like an external drive he can boot to. Right.

Right. Like in a thing that if anything, it angers him in any way, he can just take that thing and set it on fire and throw out of his window, that kind of thing. Apple have announced that the Mac Mini will soon be produced at a new facility in Houston. Talking about the Mac Pro, I mean, I think that this is another sign that the Mac Pro is not long for this world. As the American-made computer, they're now moving the Mac Mini there. They're also looking to build AI servers at this Houston facility, too.

So that's not quite right. They are building AI servers there. In fact, there's, continuing to next generation. That's where they started with this factory was building servers for private cloud compute. And there's a video on the Wall Street Journal that actually shows some of that going on, where you can, the ATP guys actually did this where they're like freeze framing it and like, well, what's in there? Is that multiple processors? What's happening there? But they're going to build a Mac Mini there.

as well as other places. This is, to be clear, they're not building all the Mac minis there. It's just going to be, they will build some Mac minis there and make them available in the local markets or in the region, which means they'll make enough for the U.S. maybe or for the U.S. and the rest of North America.

We'll see what that is. But that allows them to say, look at us, we're making consumer products in America, not just these servers that we're making. And they did that, of course, the day of the state of the, Union because it was intended to be a, you know, kind of a political statement about bringing

manufacturing capacity back to the U.S., which is part of the narrative that is going on out there. Well, we said this before, and I'll just say it again, this is the thing that Apple does of every administration. This is not a Trump administration thing. Well, I would say the first Trump administration put this on the table. And so they also did it with the Biden administration, but I'm not sure it was on anybody's radar as much in the Obama administration? I feel like this is more of a Trump thing. Yeah, the Obama administration, if I remember correctly, this was the whole thing where Steve Jobs said to Obama,

I can't do this. I can't make an iPhone, I think is what he said. Yeah. How about a Macro? Anyway, yeah, so it is a, look, and I will just say, I think, trying, given given so much of Apple's stuff is based in China, and we know that that means that if there's a rupture, Apple's going to have a hard time making stuff.

And given that the chips are made in Taiwan, and if China attacks Taiwan, Apple's going to have a hard time getting chips, and the world is going to have a hard time getting chips. There are two responses you can make to that. One is, well, oh, I hope it doesn't happen. And because we can't make them now, so we just should not try and wait.

The other thing is to say, okay, maybe we can't get there today or even in the next five years. But if we want to ever have alternatives to China, alternatives to Taiwan, we, you know, the best, what's the line? The best time to do it was 10 years ago and the next best time is today.

That's where they are. And so I think it's, I think it's not bad at all to see Apple support. reporting TSM, building chips in Phoenix, and Apple itself building some computers in Houston, as well as doing kind of like a manufacturing academy there, in addition to the thing that they're doing in Detroit. Like, it may be for, I mean, it is not not for show. It is not for politics and to point out and say, look at us investing in America. It is that. But if you were ever to get to a state where you could hedge against the loss of China or time,

Taiwan, you've got to start somewhere. And so I think that this is not a bad thing for them to do. I think, I mean, I've said it on the show a bunch of times. I think it's a good idea. And just in general, I was like, you should have a diversification in your production. Like, you just should. If you can, you should. Like what, as you say, because if something, if something terrible happens,

Apple is screwed. Right? Like, what are you going to do? Like, so, yeah, they should absolutely do this. This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Century. Logs are messy, trying to grab through them and line them up with traces and dashboards just to understand one issue, it's not going to cut it. Century, that's S-E-N-T-R-Y, has logs too, but they've made them usable.

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build new features, new exciting things because it's exciting for you and your customers will love it. That is not what you get to do if you're spending tons of time trying to debug an issue. And that is where Century comes in by giving you all of the information you need and helping you understand exactly where the problem is, where it came from, and can highlight everything. They can give you the tools that you need to get what you need to be like the bug fixed quickly. Then you can get back to exactly what it is that you want to be working on, which is developing your app to be best for yourself and for your customers. More than, for 4.5 million developers use Century,

including teams at Anthropic and Disney Plus. Try it free at S-E-N-T-R-Y.O and tell them that we sent you. They have a free dev plan, and listeners of this show can use the code Upgrade 26 to get $100 in Century Credits. Our thanks to Century for their support of this show and Relay. So you got the opportunity to have, I'm assuming it's a briefing with friend of the show, Eddie Q,

about F1 coming to Apple TV. So this was the, we were talking about this last week. My expectation was, as you was, as yours was too, we would get some information before the season begins this weekend. Technically, coverage begins, I think, on Thursday. Yeah, now's the time. For the first practice sessions of the 2026 F1 season. And so it will be live and on Apple TV.

I'm going to give a breakdown of a couple of, of technical things. So Apple will have 4K HDR with 5.1 audio and the video will be, quote, less compressed. I'm fascinated to see what that ends up looking like. So yeah, let me explain this. So the MLS and majorly baseball coverage that Apple has done, people have praised, and I have praised certainly for how good it looks. It looks better than the other stuff we see. And one of the reasons is a lot of the stuff we see is coming through a workflow that is involved with like a cable company broadcasting the games. It's traditional TV workflow. And I think, and I don't know where in the workflow this stuff happens.

But the argument here is that it gets really compressed in order to save bandwidth. And then if you have a cable or satellite provider, they compress it. further. There's more compression that happens. Back in my TiVo days, I discovered that a lot of HD signals on my cable box were not, or my DirecTV satellite were not at full resolution. They were downresing them in order to save on bandwidth, which is just like, so it's HD, but it's not the HD that it was. It's less. And there's pipeline issues with all of that. one of the things that Apple says that they've done is it's in addition to HDR, which really helps the colors and all that, is, and Eddie Q called it out, it's less compressed. One of the things that Apple has tried to do in order to boost image quality is they use higher bit rates and do less compression.

And because they're just doing it for Apple TV and not to go through ESPN on a cable system, they're able to get higher. quality results. So all of that stuff is 1080. That's 1080P. So this is 4K which is new. I think that's because

you know, Formula One has invested in 4K HDR cameras. I think part of it is that there aren't like stadiums like there are with MLS and Major League Baseball where you have to have they don't bring the cameras

in for every game. then take them out and go to the next city. That's not what they do. They use the cameras that are there. For Formula One, I think they bring their cameras with them. I think they probably got a few sets of cameras and they set them up a few weeks in a dance, but they've got like they've got the ability, my guess, I don't know this for sure, to, to control what is capturing. And they are apparently 4K HDR and with surround sound. And that's not necessarily new, but on top of that, Apple's going to do their thing where they compress it a lot less. So basically they're saying it's going to look great.

And I believe them because the Major League Baseball stuff looks great. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. So I use Sky here, right? I've ever spoken before. And I have Ultra HD. So it is in theory 4K HDR with surround sound. But I've never really thought that F1 looks that good.

Even like it looks better than the HD service that I was getting before and a different streaming service. And are you using cable or satellite or? Satellite. But it's actually streaming. Okay, so let me rephrase that. Sky is a satellite service, which you can get via satellite, but we do just streaming with them.

We have Sky stream. So it's going to be interesting to me to, I don't know how I'll see it at some point, but at some point I will get to see how this looks like, and it would be very interesting to see exactly how they compare. We got, you've got some more information about the multi-view, so they have up to four feeds. You can choose what video feeds you want. There are driver feeds. There are tons of cameras available, like

the on boards and stuff. Right. There's P1, P2, P3, which is a fun idea. And I think that's new. Those channels are presets for who's in first, second, and third place. So you could set up a multi-view where the leaders are on the side and then the main broadcast is in the middle. And they've got

lots of these presets where you know, not everybody is a quad box secco like me. And so you can just say, show me that view with this team. You know, show me the view of Red Bull. And it'll put the main broadcast on and the two Red Bull drivers cameras on. And then the nice thing about it that I realized is at least on Apple TV,

these may be presets that are pre-built on some of the streaming platforms, Apple supports that don't have much horsepower. That's my guess, right? That's what YouTube TV does is they're multi-view. is a bunch of pre-baked multi-views that they put together. But on Apple TV, it's just a multi-view. So if you then want to edit it and take one of those drivers out or whatever, you can do that because it's just a preset for the multi-view setting.

It's not like a baked-in on Apple TV. So it looked really good. And then they have a Vision Pro. People are wondering what the Vision Pro strategy is. Right now the Vision Pro strategy is you can do up to five on Vision. Wow. Yeah, well. That's so immersive.

Because they've got one of their channels is like a track view. That's the thing where they need to get there where they've got a 3D track view channel that just shows up on VisionPro. But they haven't done it. It is very funny that that is the difference. It's like, I guess it's like what? They can put it above where the scream of me. Yeah, but you know. And they can be virtually bigger and all that.

But you know what that means is that on Vision Pro you get Pentobox, which is exciting. So, yeah. English and Spanish audio will be available. The F1TV. announced crew is going to be the primary announcers. SkySports feed will actually still be an option. You can listen in SkySports. It's a

separate video feed, but you can still add all the multi-views. I asked about that. So if you are a SkySports partisan, you can watch the SkySports and still add in all the driver cams and do all that, and this is all just in the TV app. This is the long-term follow-up to my prediction

that Apple would not have their own announcement team. You got it. You nailed it. They're going to use F-1 as their partner for all of that and then Sky is the alternate. So, so if you, because Sky was on ESPN, right? So like, people who are used to the Sky Sports on ESPN in the US will still be able to get it. Yeah. Or they can get, by default, it will be the F1 TV crew. I'm so pleased that they've given that option. Like, because it allows for people, because it allows for choice. Um, I think it would have, like I, you know, I like, I like the announced the Sky Sports

announcers. The Sky Sports announcers are very polarizing. amongst F1 fans, but people who watch on ESPN will be used to them. And, you know, if you don't want to switch away from that, you can listen to it, but you will get all of the weirdness that would be from listening to a Sky Sports announcement team, which is talking about what is on Sky Sports right now. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why, that's one of the reasons you label it the way you do. I mean, obviously they got, they knew that this was going to be there. And, and that F1, you know, buying the F1 rights gives you the rights to all of that too. Like, obviously they have the rights to Sky Sports feed as well as the F1 TV feed and this is how

they've chosen to do that. So I should say, I saw this explained or heard this explain somewhere else and I'll just mention it here. People who watch F1 know this, but like there is no there is no Apple set of cameras. There's a feed of the cameras that gets used by F1 TV and it gets used by Sky Sports and it gets used by every F1 broadcaster in every market. Regardless of their language, the cameras are the cameras because you're not going to have a thousand cameras at an F1 race. And that also includes that what is on the screen is not decided by any individual company. F1 decide what is shown.

Except you can have, in some circumstances, your camera there. But what you're doing is you're cutting your camera in over what you're being given by F1 in order to do a little localization of a trackside reporter or whatever. Exactly. So this is, I bring this up because I want to say there's a better example of this, which is the Olympics, which everybody just saw. The Olympics has an international broadcast center. There's one feed for the Olympics. Those cameras are from the Olympics, therefore everybody. Same, exact same deal. There, your local broadcaster may have a camera there. Like, I watched a lot of curling.

They had a rink side reporter in the curling venue. And she was sometimes just audio and she was sometimes on camera. But when she was on camera, they would usually put up a double box with what was going on. And that's literally NBC taking the international broadcast feed on the left and their camera that they've got. Their one camera in Cortina on the right. and then, and then, you know, doing that and then cutting back. Because so you can, you can localize it a little bit, but for the most part, you're going to be using the international feed. And that's exactly what F1 does as well.

So it's not, it's, it's, a World Cup is like that. Like, when you've got these enormous events, international events, you can't have every broadcaster doing their own thing. So instead, you know, there's some localization around the edges, but the primary thing. Actually, I see this in Premier League broadcast, too, where like, The announcers don't get to control when the replay is showed. So they'll sometimes be talking about something and they won't be on the TV because the director of the broadcast is not listening to the NBC announcers, right? If they're listening to anybody, they're listening to the local announcer

and they may not even be listening to them. And similarly, like as we spoke about before, like Apple will not have any control over the graphics that are showing, like the timing graphics and all that kind of stuff. they can add their own things on top, but that is also set by F1. Yeah, some of that, some of that there's possibly that some of that gets put out as a graphicless feed because you have to have the,

you have to localize it into different languages, but I think a lot of it is just, is stuff that they have the data, they're the one generating the graphics, you use their graphics. And again, exactly like the Olympics. If you notice,

like all the Olympics graphics are the same. World Cup, all of those are the same. I remember during the World Cup, recently, there was a somebody took a picture of what was on their broadcast screen in some other country and it's like, oh, it's exactly the same

because they might put a little logo up or something like that, but the fundamentals of it are just part of the international broadcast. But the thing that nobody saw coming, and similarly, the Eddie Q says, we're excited today to announce something I think no one was expecting, is that Apple have done a deal with Netflix

to bring season eight of Drive to Survive simultaneously to Apple TV. It's available now. It came out on Friday. And in return, Netflix will be getting co-streaming rights to the Canadian Grand Prix in May. My expectation is why the, well, my thought was why the Canadian Grand Prix, it's the first North American Grand Prix that happens in the calendar. Two reasons. A lot of people are like, well, it's also in 500 weekend. I mean, maybe, but it's in North America. And more important than in North America, it's at a time that people in the United States can watch it live. That's what I meant. Right? Yeah. Because so much of this, they did say that they're going to try very hard not to have any spoilers, because,

invisible in the interface, because they know that as a U.S. provider, there's going to be a lot of people watching it delayed. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how multi-view and everything else works where everything is on demand and delayed, but I'm sure it'll work great. And that's really smart. And I told this to you and you said, yeah, there were a lot of issues with, that with F1 TV where they were like putting up a big hero image of who won the race when you were just trying to watch it. Well, you'd open like that F1 app and all that kind of stuff and it's a bit of a nightmare. Eddie Q said they're going to try very hard to not do any spoiling of what happens in the race because they know as the U.S. rights holder that so many of these races are going to be done in the middle of the night and people are going to watch them the next day. But yeah, the Netflix deal, I mean, it's true. Nobody saw this coming, but it makes a lot of sense, right? Because who are the two brands that have the

biggest connections to Formula One. It's Apple and Netflix because Netflix has drive to survive in the U.S., right? And so this is a U.S. deal. And to me, it's a total no-brainer as a quid pro quo, right?

Which is like, Netflix will give you drive to survive. It's just season eight. If you want to go back, you've got to go to Netflix. In return, Netflix, which loves to experiment with live events, gets to try out a Grand Prix and see how that goes. And it's not exclusive.

but it does mean that if you're just an Apple TV person, we talked about this last week. Just an Apple TV person, maybe you don't have Netflix, you've never seen Drive to Survive, and you said one of the great ways to prep for getting into Formula One is to watch Drive to Survive.

Well, the best way. The entire, it's really like previously on Formula One because it's the doc series about last year's Formula One season. And now it's available to everybody who has Apple TV in the US who's going to be able to use Apple TV

to watch Formula One. What a great idea. And then Netflix gets to see what, who is watching a Formula One race on Netflix, which I think will give them some interesting data. It might be data in the long run Apple, which they wouldn't have given them. Maybe, but that's, I mean, that's business. I think it's interesting. I did in my story put the obligatory parenthetical statement of, hey, since we're all friends now, how about a bigger deal that allows Apple's interface to include? Netflix content because that would be

really nice for those of us who used the Apple TV. I can't even imagine the reaction at Netflix when Apple made that call. I'll be like, what? Excuse me? I wonder, I mean, we don't know who called who. My guess is that, no, no, no.

My guess is that Formula One said, let me put you two together. Maybe. Maybe so. I think that. I think Formula One was like, this makes too much sense. You've got the Doc series. You've got, you're the rights. holder in the U.S.

Can you two talk? And like, so I don't think it was necessarily Eddie calling Ted Sarandos. I think maybe it was Mr. You know, Formula, Formula the first calling, saying, can I get Ted and Eddie together to talk about this? Apple is also doing a deal with Tooby for what is called, quote, exclusive alt-casts for multiple races. So there will be a selection of races that will be shown on, this is a like a, ad supported streaming service, right? 2B?

It's owned by Fox. It's a free ad-supported streaming service. It's very popular. It's actually one of the more popular streaming services around, and it's completely free. So they're going to do an alt-cast, and you said there's an existing, like, F-1 kids alt-cast? My prediction is that this will be F-1 kids.

So this has been a thing that's been going on for the last couple of years, where they are focused around kids. So there's a lot of, like, animated characters of the drivers, and they do special effects. and they actually have announcers and also some of the announcers are children. Yeah, this is actually what CBS has been doing with NFL broadcasts with Nickelodeon

where, you know, somebody scores a touchdown and slime comes out and it's all overlaid. And they've also done like animated stuff where, or was a Fox that did that, where they've done like animated characters. So it's like a video game where they're doing motion capture data and then putting it on Toy Story or The Simpsons. So I guess that would be Disney.

So that's probably Monday Night Football Altcast. So, yeah, there's a lot of, I love it. This is an example of Apple saying, well, we're the rights holder, but we want this to be maybe a little bit bigger. Like, just because the rights holder doesn't mean they have to hoard it all. They want to have some of it out there. And Tube deal is really smart. Both are these things, the Tube thing and the Netflix things, is audience capture for F1 and Apple has the audience. Exactly.

You know, they have the capture mechanism. They have the content. And 2B is popular and free. and I am surprised there aren't more sports experiments happening on free at supported TV because that's a big audience and you are generating audience and generating ad revenue and it kind of makes sense. Also, I'm a huge fan of altcasts. I think giving people different ways to watch live sporting events is a great idea because

everybody has different expectations and different experiences and you can find. This is why I like, so Monday Night Football has the altcats. that's the Manning cast, which is Peyton and Eli Manning. And it's basically they're doing a podcast while the game is going on. And they'll talk about what's going on in the game, but they'll also get guests on and they'll talk about that. My favorite thing about it is it's two successful NFL quarterbacks with their perspective about what's happening on the field. And they have insight that is sometimes really interesting. And then sometimes they'll bring on players who also have insight.

Other times they bring on celebrities. And I usually flip back to the regular cast at that point. but because it turns into like more of a podcast. And ESPN used to do that with Major League Baseball where they had like a stat cast. And it was basically like the stats nerds version, which is right up my alley. So I love if you're a live sports rights holder, playing with Altcast is a great idea. So I love it. So the draft is coming shortly in this episode about something happened that we thought would happen.

But I don't think it happened exactly the way that we thought it would. So we do have the first. of Apple's press releases have come out today, announcing both the iPhone 17E and the new iPad Air. So if there is another iPad announcement to come, for some reason they have split them. They have. Which is, I mean, I guess the logic would have dictated.

It's not what I thought. 17E today. iPads may be a Macs tomorrow. And then the MacBook on Wednesday with the, because Wednesday is the experience day, right? Wednesday's experience day. I thought it would be 17E today, iPads tomorrow, and Macs on Wednesday. But now I don't know at all.

Yeah, now it's all out the window. It could be, it could be all of them tomorrow, all the rest of them. It could be some of them tomorrow and some of them Wednesday. Anything is possible now. So they're mixing it up. They put all the products in a blender. So we don't even know what's to come. But this takes all of our iPad air and 17E picks off the board, obviously, because

Those products are out now, or at least announced now available at the end of next week. Pre-orders will open on, I think, Wednesday. Interesting, right? Hmm. Oh, Wednesday, you say, because they don't want to update the store three times. Yeah. So, yeah, here we are. So new 17E, which is, you know, remember when the SE came out every five years?

And when they release the 16E, we said, putting a number on it is an interesting choice, right? Does it imply that they're just going to increment that every year? And I think it turns out it did. And I think given what we have heard from Mark German, this time next year, they'll do a phone event probably that will be the 18E as well as the 18 because they're going to split iPhone releases. And this is essentially the laying the groundwork for that. But I think, and I think this is going to happen with a lot of Apple's products now is Apple's making their own silicon. It's fairly easy to turn over a product, easy being a relative term. but turn over a product to put a new,

some new Apple design chips in it, maybe every year, if you're not redesigning it, especially I think if you're designing it with the thought that next year we'll just iterate on this a little tiny bit. And that seems to be what they did here, is it's got A-19, it's got the C-1-X modem. Last year it had the C-1.

It was the first product to have an Apple modem in it, but it's now the one that was in the Falls phones. Otherwise, it's not like super-change. They put the magnets in, finally. I think this is a pretty decent update. But I just want to mention them real quick, because this is pointing out by Zoe in the Discord. This phone goes on sale on Wednesday at 6.15 a.m. Pacific time.

I think leading more to there will be some kind of video on Wednesday. Yeah, they're going to drop the, yeah, and they're going to update the store one time. Yes. So it'll be at the end of a video. That's what I think. Yeah, I think that's probably it. A video that I'll watch in New York probably. I would say this is, the iPhone 17E,

is a pretty decent update. It didn't get everything you could have potentially wanted. The notch is there instead of the dynamic island. But you've got an A19, great, it got the one. C1X modem, so it's got the faster modem.

Which they say is a lot faster, yeah. Ceramic shield, and probably more, and more power efficient, you'd assume as well. But they've got ceramic shields that are tougher glass on the front. A magsafe,

which it should have definitely had from the beginning. For sure. Got a pink now as well as black and white, which is great. I have heard from an inside source who has used that pink phone that it's awesome. I bet. And I bet that's probably going to sell. This phone will probably sell more units because

they have a pink one. Colors, people. It has the same 48 megapixel camera and 6.1 inch display. But the camera has better portrait because it's using the image pathway from the A19 instead of the A18, which allows them to do the enhanced portraits on both cameras, even. even though it's the same camera specs, they've got more capability because the chip. The chip is doing the whole pipeline thing that it's doing. Same price, 59, but 256 gigabytes of storage. It doubled the storage.

I think this is a very solid update for this particular type of phone. Yeah, and I think this is the Apple way of addressing. I think what a lot of people said in the report card, that $599 was probably too expensive for your cheap phone. which I could see the argument that it felt like a $499 phone being sold for $599. So what Apple did is the ultimate Apple thing, which is they didn't lower the price, but they increased the specs. So it's not a price cut,

but it is a suitable amount of storage at that price. This is a much better product than the 16E was. Now, is it, I think there's a real argument to be had about whether you'd be better off, if you can at all afford, especially if you're on an installment plan through your carrier, a 17 proper, because the 17 proper is so much better than the 17E. But the bottom line is,

that's not what this product is for. This product is to hit the lower price point. And it's pink. And it comes in pink, soft pink. I do think that that pricing, the 599 for 256, you know,

this may be me getting ahead of myself. a little bit here. But I actually do think it applies to the iPad as well. There's going to be, I think, a lot of discussion, once all these products are announced, probably some has already hit by the time you may be listening to this, about RAM and what Apple's response to RAM is. Now, the same issues with SSDs, too, but RAMs are just more so. So, you know, the fact that they have doubled the storage and kept the price the same,

where Apple could have doubled the storage and increased it. and says, you know, we're starting at this, but it's the same. They've done that before. I think Samsung just did this with their phones, too, where they increase the starting storage and increase the price. But they're like, hey, it's the same price for this one. I think the fact that they have done this with these products could suggest potentially that they are trying their best

to take this one on the chin maybe this year, but we'll find out. Yeah, we'll find out. So, yeah, that's that. We've also got the iPad Air, which gets an M4 chip, an N1 Wi-Fi chip and the C1X modem, so it's got all of Apple's new stuff. And also same prices, $599 for the 11 inch and $7.99 for the 13-inch.

Yeah. Not much to this one. It's speed bump, right? It's a chip bump, which is great. I mean, they kept the prices the same. This is a really great value. I find it funny that every now and then I see somebody in the discourse say, I don't understand why the iPad error exists.

Whereas my feeling is the iPad Air is the most important iPad in some ways because it is the best balance because the iPad Pro is so expensive. But if you want a good iPad, not the cheapest iPad, that's like not good enough for you, it's so great that the iPad Air is here. It's only one chip behind the pro. It's got a lot of features that used to be on the pro. It supports the keyboard. It's got all of that. And it's way cheaper to get into it than it is a pro. So it's, I think, a really great product.

And similarly, this is not an exciting update, but it is Apple kind of like keeping all of the stuff up to date. Every year, this stuff is getting another year forward in tech. I like that. I much prefer that to leaving a product sitting on the side of the road for two years. To me, it's like if you argue the iPad Air, you are arguing both the MacBook Air and the iPhone 17. Like, you're arguing the existence of all of these products, which are great products. But there's a cheaper version of all of those things. Well, yeah, I mean, there still is even the MacBook Air.

You can get the M1 MacBook Air from whoever might be selling it at that time. But there is cheaper products in each of these categories. So these all have a great reason to exist. You know, the iPad Air is the default iPad, I think. The iPhone 17 is the default iPhone for lots of people who might just be making a decision. Same as the MacBook Air. So I think the iPad Air makes great sense as a product. It makes more sense to me than the regular.

iPad, that just fills a price point more than anything else. Well, I agree. I could argue, and I'm somebody who bought an iPad Pro, but like, I'm not sure the iPad Pro pricing makes sense for almost anybody because it's so expensive versus the Air, which has like everything that was in the iPad Pro two years ago or three years ago. I was using an Air for a few years. I got one the year that I had covered at WWDC, 2023. Good times. Because there was something. thing in iPads at times. It's stage manager. So I got an iPad air delivered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was my, I'm really sad. I'm going to spend some money on a piece of technology. I like the, I like the magic keyboard for iPad Pro, for the modern iPad pros. It's nicer, right? It's

got the extra row. You know, it's got stuff that's nicer about it. And certainly the screen is nicer. But like, you can do the magic keyboard, the older one that was also great. Smaller trackpad didn't have the extra row and all that. Yeah. But it like it it was great in its time and that's still the iPad Pro keyboard and it's good for a lot less money. So there's a lot to be said for the iPad Air, which now is now is on M4. So it's not not going to give you the M5, but do you need that on an iPad? Some people might say yes. Some people want the nice screen. It's all good. I got one too because I wanted that iPad experience. But for most people, the iPad Air makes so much sense. And now it's, you know, it's staying up to date with.

the time. So you don't have that moment where you're like, oh, this thing's really appealing, but it hasn't been updated in a while and that chip is looking a little old. Apple's just not doing that. I like it. This episode is brought to you by FitBod. If you're looking to make changes to your fitness level, getting started can be tough. That's why I want to let you know about FitBod because it is an easy and affordable way to build a fitness plan that is made for you because everybody has their own path to personal fitness. So FitBod uses data to make sure they customize things to suit you perfectly. It will adapt as you improve, making sure every workout is challenging, but also pushing you to make the progress that you want, because you will see the

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Dot me slash upgrade. That's strange. So go now and get your customized fitness plan at FITBOD.mee slash upgrade. Once again, that is FitBOD.com upgrade for 25% off your membership. Our thanks to FitBod for their continued support of this show and relay. It is time for the draft. Let's do it. March experience draft.

These are the rules. There are going to be six rounds in this draft, 12 overall picks. Somehow we managed that amount. The draft champion gets the first pick. I am the draft champion. The items that we're picking from are chosen from a predetermined list of choices.

We have agreed could be verifiable and not ridiculously obvious. Considering there isn't a defined keynote, we're doing the draft a little bit differently, for an item to count, it must either be announced in a video, press release,

or on a product page on Apple's website that we can point to from now until we record the next episode. Hearing it in a briefing or from a friend, not enough this time.

We've got to be able to point to something. We want to see something on Apple's website that confirms whatever it is. Now, we don't have any deeply esoteric picks here, so I don't think that'll have... It's very unlikely.

This is going to be an issue. Because the draft is all sportsman-like and gentleman-like, we will probably agree. If we really deeply disagree, Stephen Hackett will be our judge and the usual. No partial points. Once we award the points and score it on the episode, there's no going back. It's final. No going back. In the case of a tie, we have a tiebreaker question.

The draft challenger gets a pick of the question. The draft champion has to answer said question. The winner becomes the draft champion, displays the champion. pennant, the loser becomes the draft challenger and despays the challenger pennant. You can find interactive scorecards, upgrade.cards. Thank you to Zoe Knox, who puts those together for

us. And you can also buy your own draft t-shirt at Upgradeyour wardrobe.com. That is an item on sale all year round. It's a perennial, yes. And I leave mine in the drawer and I bring it out on draft days. I'm wearing my draft t-shirt

today. Very nice. That might be my lucky t-shirt. at this point. It might be. Because I'm on a pretty decent run. I'm on a pretty decent run. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The history of these events, there is actually a history. There have been three March events in the past, and Jason won all of them. There was an event in April in 2021, which I won. That was the last time there was an event in this time of the year, like a draft at this time of the year. The last few, it's just been. It's pretty wild.

WC is the first one. One of those, Jason, that you won, was the streaming event. Do you remember that one? About Apple TV? Apple TV. It's like a bunch of celebrities. Yeah, that's right. Jason Momoa was there.

And Jennifer Aniston. And everyone else, including Oprah. It's literally, it's literally the fulfillment of my lifelong dream to be in the same room as Jennifer Anderson. It didn't go the way I thought it would. Hey, but let's be honest, did you ever actually think you were going to get it, you know? No, never. Never. you have a tiebreaker question for me.

I do. The tiebreaker we decided to go with this time is an over under. This is going to be of the new low-end MacBook. Which if, you know, low-end MacBook, whatever it's called, it doesn't matter, that's a choice we can make. If it doesn't happen, this is invalid, and if we tie and this doesn't happen, we just tie. That's just it. We're both winners. But I am going to force you to guess what the base price is going to be.

and it has to be over or under $699. Wait, but what if it's... If it's $6.99, I get it. Wait, wait. So if it's exactly $699, you just win it? Yeah. That doesn't sound right. Yeah, that's it.

That's how over-under works. I don't think that's how that works. Yeah, it's how that works. But you... Hmm. I feel like I'm being punked. What's over or under? Yeah, but like if it is 699, which is a very likely price point.

Yeah. You just win? But what if I want to choose 699? Um, too bad. Okay. This is interesting. Turns out that the tiebreaker, or you could also just create your own rule set. Tell you what, I'll give it, I'll give it to you.

I will take the opposite of you. If it's 699, again, it's just going to be a push. What if you choose 698? I don't want to give you $6.99. I don't want to give you $6.99 because I think that it's going to be $699. Yeah, me too. It's just the problem. Well, it'll be a push if it's $6.99. How about that?

I mean, a tiebreaker has to be a thing. So. Okay. Okay. All right. Let's do this strategically. Okay. So what I would need to do then is say, do I think that it's more likely that it's going to be $7.99 or $5.99? and by my law of it's always more disappointing than that so I'm going to say

I don't want to do this though I don't want to do this I am going to say 650 650 all right I like this thank you over under 650 I'm taking the over on that And by the way, this is the non-education price.

Yeah. All right. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. I feel like that makes more sense to me than just if it's the price everyone thinks it's going to be, then Jason just wins. I win. I win. This is the draft pick for you at that point.

All right. But I went against my own rule and I said, what if it's a $5.99? I think also it could be $7.99. So, you know, I'll give it to you, though. I think it's going to be $6.99. It's more likely $7.99. I feel like based on the Snell law of the pricing. You can take it.

Over 650. All right. So let's get into the draft. So all of my first three round picks were all iPhone 17E related. Well, go ahead. You won't get them. draft list. I'm just letting you know, I had to just, I wiped out the vast majority of my top 10 picks this morning with these, with the iPad, air,

and the iPhone 17A. So I guess I'm going to have to start with the thing that we're hoping exists. And if it does, no, I've changed my mind. My first round pick is the new base iPad supports Apple Intelligence. Oh, interesting. Okay.

I mean, I'm betting on them actually having this product, which seems less like, which seems less likely now that, but I feel like my other first round pick there's some wiggle room in there it's a dangerous thing I think to have as a first round

but to me I think if the base iPad exists surely it has Apple intelligence in it and so I'm taking that as my first round pick it's great I think that's reasonable I think that's going to happen

it was on my list not high on my list but on my list right so I'm going to go with new laptop is named MacBook. That was my first round pick.

Okay. I just chickened out of the last second. It seems so obvious, but that's never stopped number four. It's marketing, so you never know. Yep. I would really be surprised if that's the right name for that product, is just MacBook, the new MacBook. And that there's MacBook, MacBook, Air, and MacBook Pro.

just like there's iPad, iPad Air, and iPad Pro. It just, that's the brand name. Let's not be cute about it. They've used it before multiple times for this kind of product. It's the right name. Just put it out there. So I'm going to go, even though it is risky in the sense that it's a marketing thing and nobody really knows, I just can't imagine it.

I can picture it. So I think it's got to be that. Yeah. I mean, I'm absolutely in complete agreement with you, but I feel like if there's Snell's Law 1B is that... Don't pick marketing names. Don't pick marketing names. And the leaks for marketing names are just like, you know,

they don't mean anything until they actually start printing the boxes. It's true. And even then, so sometimes they only put the name on the boxes. I'm not sure we've even seen a leak about the name. No, it's just what everybody thinks is going to be called. Yeah, yeah. I think it's going to be called MacBook. That's it.

I'm going to pick from the heart. Do it. I love it. The new laptop comes in at least four color options. You know, you got my hopes up when you said I'm going to pick from the heart, and then you picked exactly what I was going to pick from the heart next time. That's still coming from my heart. It's still coming from my heart. This is what I want.

I want this so bad. I want there to be colors, and I want there to be lots of them. So your danger, because we agreed on four, your danger is that there are three. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I think there will be, I think, I think you're right, though. I think what we'll get is three color options and then silver, which makes technically four color options.

Yes. I don't think that there is, you know, we're going to get four bright colors. I think it will be similar to the IMAC, right? Which is like, there's a selection of colors and there's a default color. And the default color is silver. We could even see silver black, green, blue, or something like that. But, you know, the sub thing in here that I want to be true is they are four good colors. Well, but I don't know.

I don't know about that. We'll see. That would be great. It would be the first colorful, truly colorful laptops in, since the original I book. My gut feeling is these will be very similar. to the iPad-based model colors. And that's the model they're going to use. Maybe it'll be the IMac, but

because the IMA's kind of two-tone, you know, but they've got the aluminum on the back is bright. I mean, I hope that they do iPad rather than iPad air because, like, the iPad colors are very saturated. Yeah, the base iPad colors. That's my guess is that they will basically be the base iPad colors. That would be amazing. Because, like, the iPad air colors are like,

the iPad air just walked past the iPad and took a little bit of color from it. Yeah, a little stink from it, yeah. But the iPad colors are just very saturated of like a blue, a pink, and a yellow, and then the silver. I mean, that would be fantastic, I think, if they went with that route. Although I do expect that those colors will be different

on the iPad, but I don't know if that's... I think that might actually be a pick that we have later on, so I won't talk about that too much. So, oh, what if that's what they do is they hold that iPad so that they can announce the colorful computers next to each other. Maybe. It'll be Color Wednesday. I'm going to pick that the new laptop has a screen smaller than 13 inches.

I believe for a very long time that it was going to be the M1 MacBook Air screen. There was that Mark German report that it was actually going to not be, and it was going to be more like a 12.9, which is, last time I checked, smaller than 13. So I'm going to go with that. I think that that'll be a differentiator. That screen's going to be smaller. not a lot smaller, but smaller than what we've seen on the M1.

And that's a way to differentiate it from that nice screen on the MacBook air today. All right. I'm going back to the MacBook well. It's just the entire draft and then my iPad pick and it's all MacBook. I think that the new laptop will be wedge-shaped. Whoa. Yeah. That feels real wish-casty to me.

Talk about a thing that hasn't been, I think hasn't been rumored. I don't know, maybe. I just, I can imagine just keeping that design, the MacBook Air design. It's classic. Because I think one of the things that Apple wants to do here is to make sure they continue selling this computer. And it has to be different from the MacBook Air. Like they have to be different products.

And I think that keeping it in the old MacBook Air style, will indicate to people, oh, this is like that computer that I had. But it's also different from the other one, which is boxier and thinner. I'm a big believer in the idea that Apple's going to recycle a lot of its parts here. So it could recycle the design from that.

What gives me pause is two things. One is the rumor that the display is going to be smaller. And the other is the rumor that they're using a different aluminum process on this, which should suggest that they had to, they can't reuse the M1 air case. they made a new case. And did they choose,

not to say that it couldn't happen, but it means that instead of it being kind of like inherited, they have to choose to keep the wedge around. They might. I mean, I remember when they came out with the Retina MacBook Air, which was the Brooklyn event,

one of the things that was striking about it is that they said they very specifically decided not to change the wedge shape because they wanted it. That was what MacBook Air meant people and they didn't want to change that. So they didn't. Maybe they just busted out the design of the 12-inch MacBook.

Like, if I're going to make the MacBook, I should just make that one. And that was a very very slight wedge, but a wedge still. So maybe they just did that. There's 12 inches. This is what they need. They could do it. Small screen. Just go back to that. That would be interesting. I don't think they're going to do that, but that would be real interesting.

Avenging laptop of the past. I do, I mean, I get where you're coming from. This is probably a brand new design. They're not just taking the shell of the MacBook Air, but I just think that they may just want to just go with this. And that's one of the things that's going to make this computer look a little bit different. I am also, as been pointed out by Jambo and Discord, I am partly picking this on behalf of my wife

because she does not want to let go of a wedge-shaped MacBook Air, and I'm desperately hoping that a new computer will come into her life at some point, and that's only going to happen if there is a wedge-shaped Mac because she does not like the MacBook Air. And so I'm hoping that this will happen. So then a beautiful, colorful computer can enter our home. That's very nice. Well, I'm going to say that the MacBook-based model comes with more than 8 gigabytes of RAM.

Ah, this is my next one. Yeah, okay. Oh, wait, more than, more than, more than. More than. I think it's going to be 16. The base? I think it's going to be 16. In this economy?

Or 12. In this economy? Or 12. What are you doing? Okay. I'm thinking about what, like, what is the limit? And I just, my gut feeling is that it's not going to be eight. 12 might be a possible, right?

Just to be like, and it's got more than eight. It's not 16. It's just 12. I think if they did do more than eight, it will be 12. Because that's where the MacBook Air starts at, I think. I get that they're worried about RAM prices, but also there's the functionality of this thing. And I think having it only be eight is right, like right on the edge. especially for like Apple Intelligence,

which I do think they want to put, you know, put the sticker on the box. So I just gut, pure gut feeling is I don't think they're going to go regress, because the air starts at 16. Yeah. I just don't think they're going to,

16, no. I don't think they're going to regress by half. So it's a gut feeling thing, but I'm going to go with my gut feeling that it's going to be more than eight. Yeah, 12 is probably more, the most likely to me, but, you know, it may be eight.

10? I just don't want to get scared off on everything because of RAM, because we've already seen that they're not, they're not acting quite as scared as you might think. So don't over, overcompensate that. So anyway, I'm just putting my chips down here. This is why I've lost so many drafts, but I just, I got to go with my gut, what I think is going to happen. That's it. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one website platform that is designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just getting started or scaling a business, Squarespace, would give you everything that you need

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and you will get 10% of your first purchase and you'll be showing your support for this show. Our thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of upgrade and all of relay. Now I'm in a bit of a tiz now because I was going to pick MacBook-based model comes of 8 gigabytes of RAM.

Wow. But now I'm in a bit of a tiz now. don't feel so confident on that because you have made a good point. I talked to you out of it. But that's actually good for me, bad for you. Because if you're very confident about that, that was going to be

a pick that I would have made and maybe would have been wrong. That would be a big swing. I don't know if, I don't know if I'm very confident at it. I just, I'm confident enough to pick it, I guess. Yeah. Not confident enough to be the reverse. Let me tell you my thinking on it, because like I mentioned earlier about the ramp pricing, I don't know what they're going to

do. but I mean none of us do my thinking was if you're introducing a new product you can maybe kind of like tweak it a little bit so you end up maybe going a bit lower than you would normally because it's brand new what people are going to say yeah I and you may be right

my gut feeling is that Apple wants to come out with something that feels solid even though it's cheaper and that it might also we don't know, it might also kick around for a while. And maybe. You know, I don't know.

It is just a good feeling of like maybe they go out with 12 because that sort of sets the bar there instead of going out with eight and feeling like they really kind of skimped in those systems are really kind of, you know, not ideal. But, you know, they might. They might. I am going to make a RAM pick, though. Okay. Ramp prices on the MacBook Pro are that.

the same. The same. The same. Oh. Interesting. Yeah. So this is when you're configuring a MacBook Pro.

Yes. Obviously a new MacBook Pro. This is, it's better not on there being a new MacBook Pro. Pro. Pro or Max MacBook Pro. Yeah. That the RAM

prices on those upgrades will be different than the current RAM prices. Well, I'm saying they won't be different. Oh, they won't be different. They will be the same. Okay.

So we, We click on that now and it's like you can go to this and this and this and those prices will not change. That's what I think. Okay. I think Apple's already made a bunch of money from RAM. Like they're RAM positive. And I think that... So I may be bringing my own bias in this.

I think this RAM thing is a temporary problem. And a lot of people are treating it like this is for the rest of all time. I don't think it's going to be like that. I think this is a big problem, but a temporary problem reminds me of the great chip shortage of 2020. Legacy nodes. And I think that if Apple are able to, I mean, I assume already that they probably had a pretty decent stockpile of RAM. And so they, I'm sure, had to buy more, but maybe they try their best to eat it. Maybe they put up the price of the MacBook Pro a little bit, right?

I don't know. But I just, I hope that they are just going to say, you know what, this first time, we'll just, we're not going to change anything. We're not going to mess of anything. We'll see what happens next year. That's my hope that they're going to go with that, but we'll see. Because my concern would be, if they put them up this time, it never comes down again. So I hope that this is purely for me, a thing that I think they could do. I think Apple is in a position that maybe a lot of other companies are not.

And part of it for me as well, we've just seen products, you know, that could have had their price go up and they didn't. So we'll see. Yeah. One of the mysteries, going back to the MacBook RAM for a minute,

one of the mysteries is like, we don't know for sure what chip it's using. But I will say that the iPhone Air and Pro have 12. And the question is just like, Do they think an older chip with 8 gigs of RAM is enough for a Mac? And I just don't know. Maybe it is.

But that's my, that's the question. We will find the answer, right? But that's my question. That's a very, very good point. That is a very, very good point. And that is the thing, too, of, like, was that chip designed to work well with less than 12? You know, like, was it ever really a consideration?

Maybe. And what chip is in there? iPhone 17 chip or is it the iPhone 17 Air chip? Yeah. Because remember, it's not a phone. It is a Mac. It's got different specs.

It has to do different things. I don't know. We'll find out. I am going to go with what is in the draft scorecard parlance a bummer pick. But it's on our list and I'm going to pick it. Mac Pro not updated.

That's a good one. That's a good one. If it's updated, I'll eat this pick. It's fine. I'll take it. If anything, I'm annoyed that I forgot to put that one in my list. Yeah, I think it's dead. I don't think it's coming back.

But in fact, I don't think the Macs Studio is going to get announced this week. I think that's going to be next month because German suggests that that it's not coming. Maybe, maybe, but right now I would, I'm going to kind of guess not. I do wonder if there is an ultra-configuration Mac Studio if that is the point at which they announce that the Mac Pro is not, is discontinued. Maybe not, maybe they have a grand plan to bring the Mac Pro back,

but at this event, I don't think we're going to hear about the Mac Pro. I'm going to take that one off the board. Yeah, it's a good one. I'm annoyed it myself. All right, so round five, an ultimate pick. I tease this one a little bit earlier.

The new base iPad comes in a new color. So I think if they update the iPad, it won't be in the same set of colors that they have right now. So there'll be something new. So what gives me pause here is that the 17E did, 17E got one color, so that's good. The iPad Air did not get any new colors. So I worry

I worry that the iPads are just going to they're just going to let it ride. Yeah, maybe. Or maybe it's like they said, what we said earlier is they will update the colors in that product the same as they do the MacBook. Whatever colors they put in the MacBook,

maybe they put here too. I don't know. But I'm going with that. We're getting to Slim Pickings now, honestly. And I'm trying not to lean too hard into the MacBook. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm, let's see here. I'm going to go with starting configuration on the MacBook Pro has changed. Wow, okay. This just feels like an Apple thing. I don't, I'm not, you're right, we're slim pickings now,

but what I'm going out here is surely, well, do you mean like GPU and stuff here? Because like the chip's different, right? The chip is different. I just keep thinking that the base model will be different in some way and that that might be the way that Apple sort of sneakily handles a

price increase or a content change. I don't like this pick. I don't know why I'm making it. Can I withdraw it? Maybe I'll withdraw it. You can withdraw it if you want to because I think this one also might be really complicated. We're going to have to define it, right?

because like yeah if the GPU I know I know I know but what I was thinking of when I originally

wrote it was was RAM and it was RAM and I didn't think until just that moment of like well the GPU the core

the core amount will probably be different does that count and that seems too complicated but if you don't want to pick it and just go up

as something else yeah okay I'm gonna go with um new laptop does not have Thunderbolt. Okay.

My reasoning here, I actually think that if you view it as like, well, what can we take off of this thing to make it worse? Like, let's take Thunderbolt off of it. But the truth is, Thunderbolt is kind of a pro thing. It's not necessary. And those A chips don't support it. That's a good enough reason. Thunderbolt's a good thing to take away because by and large, the majority of things that have,

that need to be Thunderbolt, so work with USBC. You know, like you can, you can still do transfer speeds and stuff like that, right? Like, you can still plug an SSD and it's just going to be slower, but it would still work. There are very few devices that are like Thunderbolt only. Yeah. And again, this is a low-cost laptop. And, I mean, more to the point, those A-chips don't do Thunderbolt. And why would you do a variant that does Thunderbolt?

Like, I just, it just doesn't calculate for me. Doesn't the iPhone pro support Thunderbolt? I think it does Thunderbolt You're going to make me question all of my It's USB The iPhone 17 Pro Supports USB 3 For up to 20X faster transfers

That's what I'm thinking of then Which is not Thunderbolt It's not Thunderbolt It's just USB 3 And maybe USB 3 is supported I'm not picking that But like Thunderbolt is like M chip territory

Because obviously the iPad Pro has it, but that's an M-chip. Yeah. That's a good pick. And the iPad Air, too, but not the iPhones. So that's what I'm going to go with. Specifically a good pick because the chip we just can't do it. It's like a really good pick. You can't do it.

Probably one. All right. So we're into the last round. I am struggling. Like, so basically. How about starting configuration on the MacBook Pro has changed? It's still out there. Yeah, sure is.

It really is. All right. You know what? I'm going to go for it. All right. Okay. We're going to go for it. We're going to go back to the past here.

Okay. Will we pay for the sins of the 12-inch MacBook? Okay. With the new MacBook. Okay. So we're going to pay for those sins. Okay. One of the big issues, so Jason knows what I'm going to say.

He just posted it in the document. He knows where I'm going. One of the sins of that that computer was ports. Yes. Apple has since solved the potential ports problem by introducing MagSafe. Yes. So I'm going to say that the new laptop does have MagSafe.

And then they can have one or two USBC ports or whatever they're going to have, but at least you'll be able to charge this computer and do something else at the same time. That's what I'm going with for my final pick. Okay, I... It's part... Look, okay, what gives me pause here is

Apple has a new thing. It's so easy to say, well, they'll just leave that thing out. And Apple often surprises us. It's things we're like, well, they're obviously not going to put that feature in that model. And then they do. And you're like, oh, okay, interesting. That's what I would say if it has MagSafe. It's, oh, okay, they're splurging a little bit.

And, you know, if so, then good for them. The M1AIR doesn't have it. So it would be an upgrade on the M1Air. It does require them to have a MagSafe charge. cable in the box and have space on the device for a magsafe in addition to whatever the USB ports are. I could make the argument that the real lesson to learn from that MacBook, the previous MacBook, is don't have one port. Yeah.

So if this thing has, like the MacBook Air, you have to charge it via USBC, the M1, but you had another port. So you didn't need them for just charging or just charging. data. I'm not convinced this thing's going to have MagSafe, but I'm not

necessarily convinced enough to pick the opposite of you. Which is why it's my final pick in the draft, right? It's round six. Like, I'm not,

this isn't a round one pick. That's fair. That's fair. And you're leaving me with nothing. Exactly. It's like, oh,

you want to dig into the Mac studio now? Where do you want to go? Yeah, it's not great. It's not great. Um, So I'm left with a bunch of picks about products that I believe will be announced,

but that I don't believe what the picks are. Right. And a bunch of picks about products I don't believe will be announced. Okay. So that's great. That's great for me. So this is the last pick. I'll just tell you what I've got on the board here.

I've got ramp prices on the MacBook. Pro or higher. Just opposite you. Yep. I've got, there's a new iPad accessory from Apple. These are the things that you're considering? Yeah, but I'm not going to pick that.

I've got new laptop does not have MagSafe. So I've got two opposites of you, basically. And, oh, I've got MacBook-based model storage. Right? So the iPad, or the MacBook Air starts at 256. Is that right? I think that's right. So the question is, would they start at 256 or would they start at 128?

With the base model MacBook. 128 sounds terrible. It doesn't sound good though. That sounds like a very bad thing to do. Yeah, 256 is where it starts. Yeah. 128 would be, that would be. a terrible, terrible thing to do

because there'd be 1.28 gigabytes and then Tahoe takes up like half of it. Yeah. Um, huh. Hmm. Hmm. Um. I want to just give like, why you're thinking? I give people, so basically, aside from that,

Jason has essentially Mac studio picks, display picks, and home, like Apple TV, HomePod updates. Like, these are the kinds of areas that we're picking from. like what are the specs of the display? What chips are in the Macs Studio? Like these are things that could potentially happen.

But since we, since I started putting this document together, then Mark German has kind of really said, like he does not think that those products are going to be this week. So that makes it particularly difficult to, I think, to make those picks. Well, it turns out that this is going to be a tiebreaker because I'm just going to pick new laptop does not have MagSafe. Wonderful. I love it. This is a real tiebreaker question now.

Yeah, that's the real one. That's brilliant. I like that we've got that in the same round, too. It's essentially two tie breakers. Oh, no. Oh, no, we have two tiebreakers. This is how we end up tying. It's great.

I love it. So that's the draft. If you want to pick up your score cards, so you can score along with us throughout the week, go to Upgrade.cards. I guess what's really, it is actually funny that some of these picks by the time you're listening to this may already be decided,

which is not typically, I think, how people tend to get the draft episodes. So that would be a lot of fun. So you can go pick that up. Yeah, some of the stuff that was on there. You know, one of my favorites was a new pro display has a stand included. That's my favorite thing that I added. And that one may come back in a future draft.

I almost, so for the record, I almost just threw in Apple releases a new display in the lineup right here. Yeah. Because what if they do? And you could still do it with laptops. It doesn't have to wait for the Mac Studio. It doesn't. It's only Mark German throwing water on it that made me kind of less excited about that.

And I thought at least there's a... Look, I think it's possible that the starting configuration on the MacBook Pro has changed. I think it's possible that RAM prices on the MacBook Pro are higher, right? I think those are possible, and I think it's possible

that the new laptop does not have MagSafe. That's the one I actually feel is the highest percentage of all of those. Right. So I'm going to pick it. I'm not happy about it, but I'm going to pick it. So, there is.

that you did. And I thought you were going to pick that and you picked the opposite. And I was like, why do I think that? Why am I happy that my opponent has chosen that? So I might as well just go all in. And I hope it does have MagSafe. I just, you know, they're going to cheap out on some stuff. I really like the idea of them just making that the power cable again for all of the Mac laptops.

I agree. I would be disappointed, not just because of the draft. I would be really disappointed if they release this product and the way that you charge it is by plugging in a USB. CK ball. I think that that is like it's making the Mac more confusing again in a way that I don't want them to do. Okay. This episode is brought to you by our friends

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and so we also send them to my mom because we're happy with the quality and it just is really easy for her to, you know, pop it in the microwave a couple minutes and it's done. It's really nice. And, you know, again, what motivates this is the quality of it. If I had tried it and I thought it was terrible, I would not be buying it for my mom, but I am. I made the mistake of opening the Factor website

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Elliot writes in and says, with the low-cost MacBook on the horizon and the MacBook Pro reportedly getting slimmer potentially this year as well, what do you think would differentiate the MacBook Air in this environment? Could the air get thinner and lighter? Or would the MacBook Air become the mid-tier product

like the iPad Air, not as thin as the Pro, but more robust than the low-end MacBook? I love it when the Ask Upgrade question answers its own question. That's it is think about the MacBook Air like the iPad Air. That's that's it. It is the sweet spot. It is far more capable and will be far more capable than that low end MacBook will be.

And very nice and not the cost of a MacBook Pro. And that's the role it serves. The MacBook Air does not need to be the thinnest laptop. It doesn't. It needs to be thin and light. But I think it will always remain thin. and lighter than the MacBook Pro, right? Just that, just for

physics, baby. If nothing else, right? So I just, I'm not worried. I think a MacBook Air will continue to be Apple's best-selling laptop, and I think it's in a perfect position. And it will just kind of continue on like that. I mean, it will change over time. They all do.

But I think that it will be in a very comfortable position where as, like, again, if that MacBook low end is on an A chip, like, there's a whole bunch of stuff that it's going to not be capable on that device. And if people care about that even a little. Also, you know, it's just not going to be as nice. The screen's not going to be as nice. Like, all of that stuff is going to roll down from the MacBook Pro to the MacBook Air over time.

And, you know, I think I'm pretty confident that MacBook Air will continue to be the best computer for everybody. It's not successful because it's the cheapest. It's because it's good and affordable. It, you know, for people in that price range, it is a very good deal. It's an incredibly good deal if you get one on sale for like $7.99. So I think the air is going to be fine. And Apple will have a little bit of a different balancing act to do, but I'm not worried about it.

Yeah, I think we have to just at this point. I mean, it should have happened a long time ago. Just let go of the idea of air meaning thin and light. It stopped meaning that like a really long time ago now. Well, it means thin and light. No, but it's not the thinest lightest, right? It doesn't mean that. It used to mean that.

lightest. Exactly right. It first came out. That's exactly what it was meant to signify. But it doesn't mean that anymore. And it hasn't for a long time. It's just a product name. In the same way that like the Mac Studio is not any more studio than any other Mac.

It's not like if, you know, I can use any Mac in my studio and I can use a Mac studio at home. Like they're just product names. It doesn't mean anything specific at this point. It doesn't mean anything. It's just a product name that Apple uses. Yep. In the same way that they, you know, like the iPhone 17 Air doesn't like it means nothing.

Like, yes, you know, it's not, it's not even mid-tier specifically, depending on how you look at it. It's just like it's just a name that they use. That is thin and light and they're using it in that way. So the tag is a little bit different. But yeah, if you look at the, if you look at the iPad Air, I think you see like it can mean what Apple wants it to mean. And what it means is that it's implying thin and light in a laptop, not that it's implying that it's the thinest and lightest laptop. What I mean is like the iPhone Air, they use it because it's thin, but that's not why they use Air on anything else, right? Because it's exactly.

In the iPad, there's a thinner iPad. It's a pro. So now what would we do? You know, it's like it's just doesn't work like that anymore. It's just a name that Apple uses whenever they want to. Yes. John says, what importance, if any, do you think Apple gives to the Six Colors Report card? Very hard to say. All I can really say is that I know they're aware of it. Do you have a I mean, there's a court thing where there was an email that ended up in one of the court disclosures that was about the report card. So, Phil Schiller said something like, oh, it's just a bunch of developers, which is very funny. But it, you know, they're aware of it. I mean, I get check-ins from people at Apple who reach out to ask about the report card.

I've got it here. I've got it here from the internal tech emails Twitter account, this is published in May. 2021. And this is from Phil Schiller to a bunch of people all around the company at Apple. FYI, this is in January 2016. So is this the first one? First or second one, yeah, something like that. FYI, year and review by some Apple bloggers. Here is what they had to say about the App Store slash developer situation, probably biased towards feelings about the Mac App Store since the writers have a long history with Mac developers. I mean, he ain't wrong.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Well, if that was 2016, that was the first report card. And it was sent to a bunch of people at Apple marketing and the App Store, Philip Shoemaker, because Shoemaker at that time was running the App Store, I think. Yeah, yeah, so that's the, I'm not sure it was biased or the Mac App Store, honestly. But anyway, because, like, we know lots of iOS developers, too. Anyway, yes, that is good evidence, but I will just say that in recent years, I've absolutely had people from Apple reach out to me about the regular report card and the enterprise report card.

They are aware of it. They know that it's coming. I don't reach out to them and say this report card is coming, but they're aware of it. What they do with it beyond that, that suggests to me that somebody inside AppleCare is enough to ask, but I don't actually know what happens beyond that. If they have it on their radar is a super important thing or if they just don't care or if they're just trying to defend it. themselves against like if something is really harsh or wrong they feel or whatever. I honestly don't know. I have never really gotten any kind of like how dare you kind of things from them about it. So I don't know, but they're aware of it. It is used in a way that we imagine lots of coverage of Apple is used. It's either to prove a point, good or bad or to win an argument. Like it's used in meetings. It's forwarded around like this being like, good, well, But, gang, we got a great score this year and proven last year. Or, see, I told you we shouldn't have done this.

Look what it's done. Like so many people disagree. I think that kind of stuff is. And I expect this is probably a pretty good one for that kind of thing. Because it's an aggregate rather than just one person's opinion. Exactly. And to be clear, I'm sure there are lots of people inside Apple who read it. I know all sorts of people inside Apple who read six color stuff, right?

And listen to our podcast and all of that. The question is, though, like at a corporate level, is their attention on it. And I can say, yeah, to some degree, but what that means I cannot say. Seth asks, with one password's new price increase and knowing that Jason switched to Apple passwords,

I wonder if it has any family features. Sharing some, but not all, passwords in our family, is a very valuable feature of one password. Okay, I mean, good news. There's a shared groups feature in Apple passwords, and it doesn't even have to be in your family. You can share with anybody.

So like I've got a shared group with Dan Moran for some passwords for the websites that we work on together. Right. Like, and I've got a shared group with my family and I've got a shared group with just Lauren. So that's the, you know, good news. I'm sure there are, look, there are going to be a bunch of edge cases where it's like, but one password doesn't do that. It's like, as with any Apple feature, any Apple feature, the whole goal, I talked about this on the talk show with Gruber. Apple is trying to solve the biggest chunk of the problem for the biggest chunk of people. And if you're on an edge case, whether it's the platforms you use or some very specific,

I heard from somebody when I was saying positive things about this who was like, ah, but it doesn't do this very specific thing. Like it doesn't, right? Like, it's not going to solve every problem. I think it solves most mainstream issues. And the sharing feature that they added this last cycle is really good. because it is so flexible and it's not just about family. You can share that with anybody.

I think it's really valuable. I also said I went in, I got into it with somebody on, I want to say Mastodon. Sounds like Mastodon. No way. About this, which is where people were like listing, I mean, I had somebody who said, doesn't work on Linux, so it's a non-starter.

And I'm like, well, my original post said, if you're all in on Apple's platforms, it's worth it. That's what I said on Mastodon. And so to get a response about Linux, I'm like, you are, fitting the stereotype there. Please read to the end of the sentence, Linux person. But, you know, the feedback I got, look, some people don't want to use it.

I also had somebody who said, oh, it works great on Windows. I'm like, I cannot endorse using it on Windows. Maybe that's true. But that's not, I don't use Windows. I'm not trying to say you should use it on Windows. I'm just saying I've been very satisfied with it in the Mac ecosystem, but or the Apple ecosystem. But I will say this, one of the mistakes people make when they're comparing one password to Apple passwords is I want every feature of one password in Apple

passwords. And that's a mistake, I think. So the one I hear the most is what about secure notes? Apple has secure notes. They're in notes where they should be. And I know like you get used to them being in one password, but like they don't belong in passwords. They belong in notes. That's where they are. They live in the place that makes sense for the ecosystem. If you only have one app, you put every feature in there. Apple has a whole operating system. Now, there are, I heard from a bunch of people are like, yeah, but I want to put extra like metadata for per password. And it's like, yes, that is a thing that I miss from one password. Not enough for me to pay for one password anymore, but yes, that is a thing I miss from it. So, you know, I just, the, the sharing feature really unlocked a lot of it.

I didn't, I didn't encourage my family to move. I didn't encourage Lauren to move. I didn't cancel one password. I've been using passwords for a couple of years now, but I didn't tell Lauren, I'm going to let one password lapse until this year, because now we're at a state where I can share passwords with her like we did with our vaults in one password. And that made the difference. So I imported all, I exported her all of her stuff from one password and put it in passwords. And now we're there. I will shout out to one password. One of the nice things about canceling is you can keep the app around. And it will show you what was in your database at the time you, canceled. So if there is something, I mean, the truth is, you can reset almost any password. So it doesn't matter.

But if there is something that you need to get, you know, like, oh, I don't have it in passwords for whatever reason, you can still keep one password around and open it up and copy that thing out. So good for them for letting you do that. I think that's a good practice. But to answer Seth's point, password sharing, don't have a problem with it. It's really good. Yeah, I would say, like, for me, I still will continue to use one password because I do use a lot of features that passwords doesn't have. And yes, so for example, I use notes

and I use addresses and all that kind of stuff. And these are things that I could share in other apps with people, but it's not what I want to do and wouldn't be ideal for the team that I'm working in. Sure. So you've integrated it as part of a set of team functionality, which I would argue is what one password as a company is focused on, right? They're focused much more on enterprise content now. I don't care that the

price is going up particularly because it's so important to my business and it's a business expense at this point. So it's like, you know, it's like it's unfortunate that like all price increases are unfortunate, but such as life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a really good dividing line that really the issue with one password is there was a time where all of us started using one password. They started giving it away for free. It was a brilliant business model in order to build a user base. They just gave it away for free with, you know, it was free with, you know, it was free with purchase of. It was free if you are a subscriber to this. It was like they did that so long and that built up a user base. And then they switched to a subscription model and people got grumpy and

all of that. But that was at a time when that having a subscription or a password locker was a great idea and Apple didn't serve that market really. But Apple passwords has gotten, first off, it happened and then it got better. It was not an app, but it was good. And then it was an app. And then it was an app and that was better, but it wasn't a great app. And now it's even better. And it's, it's this classic, it's like when I was talking about clipboard managers, right? It's like, okay, everybody's got their own clipboard manager. That's great. But like the system should do a clipboard manager. And now it does with Tahoe. This is one of those things. Like Apple has to do its own password and it has and it's very good. And for a lot of people who bought one password because

Apple didn't do it, this is a good time to look and say, well, wait a second, do I need it? And if you're using it for your business. If you've got very particular edge cases, you should keep using it and pay them for it. But I think there are a lot of people, including me, who looked at it and said, I don't see enough value in what I'm paying for. And that's okay. Everybody's going to make their own judgments. I know people who don't pay for fantastical anymore because they're like, you know, Apple Calendar is fine. Yeah. I am not going to stop paying for Fantasticl. Like, I've tried Apple Count. I'm like, no, this does not work the way that I want. to work. Everybody's going to be different. But I think the real core is not, I'm not trying to

say everybody abandon one password. What I'm trying to say is if you haven't looked at how far passwords has come, do so. This could be a reason to look and consider the value you get out of one password and what is there for free in Apple's operating systems. And if it turns out, what they've got is plenty for you. You don't have to pay for one password anymore. If it doesn't work, then you should pay for it because it's providing you that value. And that's, I mean, that's true of all sorts of different software and services. Yeah, I think that like one password have clearly decided that they want to serve the enterprise market more than the personal user market. Sure. So it's not surprising to me that a bunch of personal users are like,

I don't want to use this anymore. And then similarly, it shouldn't be surprising to them if when they try to increase the price, a bunch of personal users say, yeah, no thanks. And, and if, if Apple and every other platform vendor is building in their own password saving model, they should focus on the edge cases and the business market, right? Like they totally should because they came, again, Gruber and I talked about this why Sherlocking is not a thing is if you build your product on a hole in Apple's product line that is obviously a hole and that Apple will eventually almost certainly fill it. And that's all you do.

It's your own fault when Apple comes in and just, destroys your product. You need to be building a product that goes beyond the hole that Apple is obviously not filling. And you need to make it something that is going to be essential for people in lots of ways where the edge cases matter. And then when Apple comes in, they're not going to Sherlock your product because you've done that. And that's exactly what one password is done. Apple should, could, and did bring their own password manager to the party. And if you've never considered using it, it's worth considering, but like

one password was going to be fine, because they also knew that Apple was inevitably going to build up that feature and that they were going to need to be more things to more people. And going to business is a great example of that. Yeah. And like, for me, for my business, the amount

that they're price, they're increasing the price, it's fine. Yeah, no, because it's a business expense and it's a product you use. Absolutely. Absolutely. I've had that with stuff where they're like, oh, we're going to increase this. It's like, well, my whole business relies on you. Yeah. And I get it.

So, and I get value out of you. So I'm okay with it. Right? Like, there are other products where I wouldn't say that. But there are products where it's like, you know, go go right on ahead. I'm not going to stop using you. Oh, and I guess it's worth mentioned one past. So it's been a previous, but not continuing sponsor.

I mean, if anything, they just had, they just had to deal with us. They cancel some spots. So if anything, I should be annoyed at them. Yeah. And then they bought a company that sponsored six colors a bunch. And so some of those converted into one-passed ones. But I think those are all in the past now. But yes, it's happened in the past.

Take that for what you will, given what we just said. Yeah. That's up to you. You can send us your feedback, follow-up and questions by going to UpgradeFeedback.com. Don't forget, you can get the scorecard at Upgrade.cards. Thank you to our members and support us with Upgrade Plus. This week, I want to talk to you, Jason, about the fact that Paramount is now buying Warner Bros. You can go to get that at getupgradeplus.com, sign up, support the show, become a member.

You can find us on YouTube by looking for the Upgrade podcast. I would like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode. That is Factor, Squarespace, FitBod, and Century. But most of all, thank you for listening. We'll be back next week to talk about everything that happens the rest of this week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow. Goodbye, Mike Hurley. Thank you.