Upgrade - 67: Part Spite, Part Strategy

Episode Date: December 14, 2015

This week Jason and Myke discover who’s using LaunchPad, dissect Jason’s purchase of an iPad Pro, discuss a new podcast-recording service that works in a browser, and answer your questions.

from relay fm this is upgrade and it's episode number 67 today's show is kindly brought to you by lynda.com warby parker and go to meeting my name is mike hurley and i'm joined by mr jason snell mike's mike we're two thirds of the way through uh to episode 100 now that's pretty crazy to think what i always find weird when i when i start up the documents for this show is the numbers so we're on episode 67 yeah but connected and and analog and stuff like the shows that were the originals they're on like episode 69 and 70 which just doesn't seem right to me because it it didn't feel like this show came around like two weeks after relay launched but obviously it did well i mean on one level it did

but on another level it really didn't because those shows are largely continuations of shows on five by five right or even previous and the numbering and names changed but you know they're kind of your your mental model of connected goes back to the prompt, right? So there's that. And then also you spent the summer planning those other shows to be on Relay, right? And the upgrade happened on a faster timeframe

because of me leaving IDG. Yep. It's just crazy to me to think that we were only two weeks old and then this show appeared. Yeah. crazy to me to think that we were only two weeks old and this show appeared yeah kind of nice to think that that was that was uh that was pretty cool meanwhile i posted episode 276 of the incomparable this weekend like how is that possible that the number is that large that is a huge number yeah that's a lot of that's a lot of episodes i don't even know what you do at episode 300

yeah i don't know what you probably won't do is any follow-up but we do that on this show we do jason it turns out people do indeed use launchpad we were getting a lot of feedback about this and i don't remember it ever being brought up no now launchpad um, which I mentioned that I thought nobody used, which, okay, so I'll say, let me say something about hyperbole, which is sometimes you say things that are not, you don't mean them literally. You mean that it feels that way and it's sort of that way. And my feeling is that, I'll rephrase this, I don't think Launchpad is a feature that is used to the extent that perhaps Apple anticipated. this. I don't think Launchpad is a feature that is used to the extent that perhaps Apple anticipated. And I'm not convinced, and maybe Apple has numbers that back this up. I'm not convinced that it's a necessary feature. But at the same time, as we talked about last week, just because a feature isn't used by a lot of people, you don't necessarily take it out. Maybe you don't show it a lot of love, but you just sort of leave it there. And it's there for the people who want it. Now, of course, when you say, I don't think anybody or almost anybody uses a feature,

what you're going to hear from is everybody who uses it because they are offended that you suggest that they don't exist, which is fair enough. So I did hear from people who use the launchpad. The joke that I could make here is that I've heard from everybody who uses the launchpad. They're like eight of them, but they are a representative sample of a much larger group. So I guess what this tells me is a few things. One is not everybody is navigating via the keyboard. Spotlight. So Spotlight is something that came up too, because you can find apps very quickly in Spotlight. And over the years, Apple has actually done a really good job of getting the Spotlight

index to favor apps. And in Yosemite and El Capitan, Spotlight immediately will suggest an app when you start typing. And if you hit return, it will, it's like as you're typing, it's auto-filling and displaying the icon and saying, this is the app I think you want. And if you hit return, that app launches. And I heard from some people who said they thought the spotlight was too slow. And I would say if you're using an older version of OS 10, that might be true.

If you're using a newer version of OS 10, you might want to try it again because Apple spent the last, I think the Yosemite and the previous update, they put a lot of effort into getting app launching faster on spotlight and that uh spotlight does take a while sometimes to kind of chunk around and get like 20 things uh displayed for you but the app display is supposed to happen very fast on my computer it happens basically instantaneously so um so but what this is interesting is i i heard from some people who said they use launchpad because they open launchpad using a mouse uh usually it's a mouse gesture and um and then they type the name of the app they want because it it defaults to the keyboard when

launchpad opens is in the search box and you can search for an app. Um, I, I guess that's no different other than the visual, uh, thing of having the, the curtain drop down and all those apps there. I guess that's not really much different than doing a spotlight search. Um, it's, uh, they're probably about, about just as fast. And this one has a little less noise in the sense that it isn't trying to show you other things, too. It's only trying to show you apps. I'm not entirely convinced that that's actually a more efficient way of doing it than just using Spotlight. But there it is.

And then the other aspect of this is I think if you're a person who really uses your computer and thinks visually and spatially, Launchpad has value because you know where your apps are. So I heard from a few people, Lister Jeff is a good example. He said, I can arrange all of my app icons the way I want. This makes it easier for me to find them. The idea that you've got some apps in the dock and then you've got Launchpad in the dock. And if the app you want is not one of your go-to dock apps, you click Launchpad and you get that grid and you know where that app is that you want. You don't have too many apps or too many apps on page one of Launchpad. And it's a nice visual way to find an app. And the idea there is that you may not be the kind of person for whom hitting command space and typing the first three letters of the app name and hitting return is something that you're ever going to internalize. But, you know, click and then click in two different spaces

on your screen totally works for you. And that's, you know, different people have different pathways. So I thought that was a really interesting way of going about it. And then I also heard from some people, one other common bond in people using Launchpad is it was not that length of time using the Mac. Because I heard from people who are even classic Mac users who use Launchpad. And I heard from people who migrated over. But I did hear a surprising number of people who migrated from Linux or Windows or both who said that they like it because it's a way to organize your programs that don't fit in the dock. It's a way to organize your programs that don't fit in the dock. And I think that also suggests a lack of comfort with Spotlight and a lack of comfort with the Finder.

And that's not unreasonable. I wonder sometimes if Launchpad wouldn't be better if it was purely visually an extension of the dock. Like when you click the Launchpad in the dock, it just flipped out a table of, you know, a tray of apps. Yeah, like a drawer slides out or something, you know. Instead of the curtain coming down and, you know, your entire screen is now covered with this app launcher. Yeah. But just metaphorically, I wonder if that would be better. I think that launchpad is fundamentally a better way to organize and find your apps than the Finder, like in my opinion. The Finder just doesn't really gel for me like as a you open a folder to find apps like i just feel like now my idea of apps has completely changed the way that i think about apps on the

mac but i am completely a command space person but i have alfred installed i really like alfred it does a couple of extra things that i like but one of my main things is it learns from me um and and i i'm sure spotlight does a bit of this but i'm now invested in alfred it knows my little habits it knows that i always type address book when i need contacts and gives me the right one you know like little things like that and and so i really love it for that yeah i use launch bar but same same point yeah yeah and so that you know that's it but i was really interested the other day uh i was me and my girlfriend were doing something uh on her mac

and she used spotlight to launch an app which really surprised me because she's a relatively new mac user um and i don't know why she did it, but I'm pleased that she did. Because it shows that she's found something and worked out how to do it, which I think is really cool. Because fundamentally, launching apps on the Mac is not as easy as launching apps on iOS. So that's why Launchpad exists. But it's good that Spotlight has integrated that as well. See, I think launching apps on the Mac is just as easy as it is on iOS because you either see it or you type it. Well, it's just as easy when you know you have to find it.

Like on the iPhone or on the iPad, they're right there looking at you at all times when you're on the home screen. That's true. Although you've got the big dock on the mac it's bigger i mean i i've i've used sort of like the dock as like page one of the home screen i think those are kind of comparable where it's like these are the apps that i really want in my face all the time and then everything else you can have other uh other pages of apps although generally now if i don't see it i just search for it i don't you know i i've gone i've come to the uh this may actually be the cgp gray school of thought right

which is um if you can't see it it might as well just be in a folder because you're just going to search for it and you don't need eight i don't i don't have like eight pages of apps anymore yeah i i search i mean i have everything yeah followed away and there's still some stuff that i just know where it is on my second screen, so I just go and grab it. But the majority of the time, I'm using Spotlight and iOS to launch applications in the same way. So that's the thing that makes me stop about Launchpad, is that you are bringing it up, and then you're looking for your app, and then you're clicking on your app. I agree, looking in the applications folder in the Fer, although something I occasionally do is not a good way of doing it, but I feel like the dock and spotlight are the primary ways that Apple expects

you to use it. But I think this is a good, good example of Apple thinking for some people, especially people who are used to the way that iOS presents apps, having a visual grid of app icons is a good alternative to typing them. I have some issues with Launchpad, but it's not for me. So in the end, I find it's so slavishly attached to iOS shortcuts that it's kind of hard to manage launchpad and move things around. But at the same time, I think the people who are using it don't have very many apps largely, or they're happy to manage it.

So for it just, it doesn't work for me, but, and I think it could be better perhaps, but I see why it's there. And you know, that was, that was why it was there initially.

I, my larger point last week was I'm not sure Apple would make launchpad today. perhaps, but I see why it's there. And, you know, that was why it was there initially. My larger point last week was I'm not sure Apple would make Launchpad today. I think Apple today would say the dock and spotlight is good enough. But there was a time when Apple felt like it was a high priority to create an iOS home screen-like experience on the Mac, that they needed to build that feature. And so they did, and it's Launchpad. I just think now Apple's priorities are different, and creating something that apes iOS for an app launcher is not something they would try. But it's there, and people do use it. And it is absolutely true that different people learn and interact with technology in different ways. And this is a great example of

that, that for some people, even if you can type the name in Spotlight, they don't want to do it. They either want to type the name in Launchpad or they just want to click on the thing in Launchpad. And that's something that we should all remember about computers is just because somebody doesn't do it the way you do it doesn't mean they're doing it wrong

because there are lots of different paths to get where you want to go. and you may be able to offer something that would be more efficient but um it you or you may think it's more efficient for them but it might not be because different people it's just like how you know people some people learn by reading books and some people learn by sitting in a classroom and listening and some people learn by using their hands in order to do what whatever it is they need to learn. Everybody's got different ways that they learn and that they use technology.

Speaking of which, Outlook. Yeah, so I threw Outlook for Mac under the bus last week and I should have been nicer to it. There is a new version, which I have seen and I have on my hard drive. And yet when I was struck at some point, I used Outlook and I was surprised at how entourage-y it still felt. But they did do a new version last year that doesn't look like entourage, although I still feel like the weight of history on it at times. But it does look a lot better. It fits the visual style of Microsoft's modern apps,

which I do like. I enjoy the way that those apps are designed. I think they're very pretty. And I find them a pleasure to use, actually, especially on iOS, but even on the Mac. And I will still say about Outlook that unless you're using Exchange, Outlook for Mac, I think, is overkill. I think it's too much. I think it's kind of just, it's a product that's really designed for people who are in Microsoft environments and using Exchange servers. And if you are, then good, you should use it. But I can't really, I'm enjoying using it on iOS, and I feel that it's a different story on iOS.

But on the Mac, I don't think it's something that I would recommend people use. It is better than it used to be, I guess. I haven't taken a look at it and whatever and hearing from people, but it's not like the iOS version. It's not like that. The iOS version is very simple and very useful and very stripped down to what you need it to do, but not in like a simple, like it's not dumbed down, but it's stripped down to the point where you just have the features that you need. And simple, like it's not dumbed down, but it's stripped down to the point where you just have the features that you need. And I really like it for that.

The desktop version of Outlook is still kind of catered to the PC environment, I guess, more than like the corporate environment as opposed to the iOS environment, which the new Outlook apps are on, I guess. Yeah. I started using Mail.app as well as Outlook apps are on, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I started using Mail.app as well as Outlook.

That's what I've switched to. And I've had to move away from Mail.app because for some reason, it really doesn't like the fact that I use a pen tablet and a Magic Trackpad for navigation. And every now and then, I am hovering over the pen tablet with my pen and I attempt to use a gesture with the trackpad

and then I cannot interact with anything in the mail app it just locks up everything else in the system is fine but it seems to get stuck in some gesture somewhere and I can only use the app again by false quitting it so I have moved away from mail and i'm currently trying airmail i i uh i i have seen that on el capitan in a few places where there are there are certain circumstances where um something is happening and gestures caught gestures kill an app where they cause the app to become unable to recognize gestures or cause the system to be unable to recognize gestures and other work they otherwise work normally which is really weird right like oh i can still use the keyboard and the mouse i just can't use my trackpad gestures anymore it's just strange

yep i can use them in all other apps just not this one it's yeah i i don't know if there's a problem with mail specifically but it is a problem with OS X because sometimes my trackpad doesn't work with logic and I have to usually turn my trackpad off and on again for the gestures to work, the pinch gestures to work for zooming in and zooming out. Who knows, Jason? Nobody knows.

I will just point out that I have not yet updated this machine to the most current version of El Capitan. Who knows? Just in case that's been fixed. Do you remember last week there was an Ask Upgrade question that people were saying, like, where can I get live wallpapers from? Yes. Well, Upgradey and Danny sent in a link to an app. It's a 79 pence app, which I is 99 cents called live wallpapers and it is just a

collection of live wallpapers that you can get from the from an app in the app store um with a bunch of different patterns and stuff like that it hasn't got the best reviews i haven't tried it myself but it does exist um so proving that i guess it's possible uh but there are some it seems like people are complaining that it crashes however it exists so give it a go at your own risk I suppose yeah interesting I have taken a new I have a picture of my

lovely girlfriend as my lock screen image and it was a great picture that I took of her a couple of years ago that I really loved and I really wanted a that I took of her a couple of years ago that I really loved. And I really wanted a live wallpaper picture of her. So over the weekend, we were away on a family thing. And I took a picture of her because she looked cute in a hat that she was wearing. And now I have a live wallpaper picture of her.

And I absolutely love it. Have you done this no i've got some yeah i should do it i i need to look because what happens is i just take the pictures and then i i don't think to go back and mark those um so i'll have to i'll have to look for that i've got one of my daughters like jumping up and down when we were taking our family. Turns out to be our family photo for our holiday card. And I've got a live photo of her that's basically from that, which is kind of cool. More and more, I am loving that feature.

I really do think it's fantastic. It's just a fun little thing. And it's captured some really cool moments that otherwise I wouldn't have been able to grab so I like it a lot yeah I just wish that there were more it just needs to be more shareable because it's weird you know one off format so more shareable in more places as we were saying last

week that would be nice listener Abby wrote in about a comment no command line for classic macOS and pointed to something called MPW. You're going to have to help me with this one. Yeah, that's the Macintosh Programmers Workshop. So Abhi wrote in and said,

you're wrong, there was a command line for the classic Mac OS. It was called MPW. And I know what MPW is. And we ended up disagreeing on this. And I disagree with listener Abhi about this. But I appreciate the message because what Abhi about this, but I appreciate the message because what Abhi was saying was MPW was a program you could install on the Mac and it gave you

a command line and you could develop software and write shell scripts and execute them and it would do things in the file system and all that kind of thing, like we think of with the terminal app. So I guess the question is, what does has a command line mean? Because there are lots of there were lots of programs for classic Mac OS that, you know, quote, unquote, gave you a command line where you could do things like rename batch, rename or remove files and things like that. And what was really happening is you were issuing a command and then the command line program would do what you told it to do. And I guess what I would say is the

Unix terminal is fundamentally a part of OS X. And it's there whether you want it to be there or not. And terminal is just a window into it. You could actually, depending on your settings, you can telnet in to or SSH into a Mac and do Unix stuff. And OS 9 didn't work like that. OS 9 had no fundamental part of its operating system that was a text-based command line. You can install programs that emulated a command line interface and let you do things, but it's not the same in my mind as what DOS had, which was fundamentally down below there is, or even Windows with the DOS underneath it, right? With DOS, it wasn't down below it. That was windows with the dos underneath it right that with dos it wasn't down below it that was all there was but with windows it was down beneath it this command

line interface and um that's just not true on os9 it didn't have anything like that you had you could run a program that gave you the ability to do stuff that felt like today's command line but os10 has unix with a command line interface and shells and stuff already installed as part of the base system that are running. And all the terminal app is doing is giving you a window into that stuff. And Avi made one argument that you can't really do anything with the terminal unless you install Xcode. And that's not true. That's absolutely not true. There's lots of things you can do with the OS X terminal without installing Xcode. And I've done them, many of them. So I

think it's an interesting perspective, even though I'm going to disagree. I think it's a really interesting perspective because it is true that on one level, if you can install software that lets you type commands and have them executed, then is that not a command line? But I think it misses the point that OS 9 and before the classic Mac OS had no fundamental sort of like text-based interface that was sitting there waiting for somebody to contact it. That's not how it works. All right. Well, that one's lost on me. So I tell you what, though, if I did want to learn how to do all of this stuff, do you know where I would go, Jason? Where would you go?

Lynda.com. Ah, that's a great place. They are the online learning platform that has over 3,000 non-demand video courses to help you strengthen your business technology and creative skills. You can get yourself a free 10-day trial, I should say, by visiting Lynda.com slash upgrade. That's L-Y-N-D-A dot com slash upgrade.nda.com slash upgrade. That's lynda.com slash upgrade. lynda.com has courses on everything. So, you know, if you want to learn how to do Xcode stuff, if you want to learn terminal stuff, you're going to be able to find all kinds of topics and subjects and courses like that over at lynda.com because they're there to help you solve problems.

They're there to help you feed your curious mind, help you tackle those tasks you've been putting off for ages. We are approaching a new year. New year means new resolutions. And so it's the perfect time to go to lynda.com, watch their videos, learn from top experts and put into practice the thing that you have been putting off. Maybe you want to learn how to use IFTTT. Maybe you really want to learn how to go paperless and finally get rid of that stack of bills sitting on your desk. Whatever it is, go to lynda.com. You can stream any of these thousands of video courses on demand. You can learn at your own schedule, at your own pace, and you can even watch and download courses to your Android or iOS

device to learn on the go. When you're watching on the desktop you can browse each of their course transcripts you can follow along search for an answer within them and maybe click that point and go straight to that point in the video you can even take notes on lynda.com so you can return to them later and refer to what you were thinking when you were watching that fantastic video you're also able to share with friends playlists that you create so you can put your own course transcripts together and you can share with friends and colleagues so they can learn along with you. Your lynda.com membership will give you unlimited access to training on hundreds of topics for one flat rate. Whether you're looking to become an industry expert, you're

passionate about a hobby, or just looking to learn something new, go and visit lynda.com slash upgrade, sign up for your free 10-day trial and start learning some new stuff today thank you so much lynda.com for their support of this show and relay fm so you uh you did exactly what i expected you would do and you went ahead bought an ipad pro in between these two episodes. Why is that? So this weekend we went to my sister-in-law's house. My sister-in-law, my wife's sister, used to, she was a lawyer. She went to law school and then went to a firm and ended up at this firm in New York City. And I visited her there earlier this year. And she did a career change and moved to California, back to California, because they grew up in LA. And they're in the

Central Valley now, and she's a judge. And her swearing in as a federal magistrate judge was this weekend, or it was Friday. So we went over, so we went there and we're, it was really nice. It was kind of like a cross between a family reunion and a, I think it was most like, it's like a wedding, like a wedding reception because it was all parts of the family. It was really nice. And it was a great, they do a ceremony. They do it right too. Like all the judges in the federal, the federal courthouse are in this session. It's like in the ceremonial courtroom where they're all the judges are. Cause usually there's like one judge per courtroom.

You don't need like 10 of them. Um, it was really a great, a great ceremony. So, so we're there for the weekend and I didn't bring my laptop with me. So, um, I did a bunch of stuff this weekend. I edited an episode of the incomparable with Ferrite on the iPad Pro again this weekend, which I can talk about a little bit later because that was a lot of fun. So I'm using it for the weekend thinking, again, as I have all along, this is a product I never expected to like this much.

And it's literally just been the weeks with it of continuing to come back to it and not put it down and not go back to the iPad air that made me think this is, as we said last week, this is probably something I should buy. So I was, so we're sitting at, at my sister-in-law's dining room table talking and there's people all around.

It's, it's a Saturday night and some of the people have left, like the party is kind of winding down. Cause we did a big party on, on Saturday. I'm swearing. It was Friday afternoon. We did a party on Saturday at their,

at their house. And we're talking and there's a few of us talking and I had the iPad Pro out and somebody noticed it and asked me about it. So I picked it up and I showed them some stuff. And I said to my wife, yeah, I think I'm probably gonna buy one. They were asking, do you like it?

I'm like, yeah, this is the Apple one, but I think I'm gonna buy one. And my wife, ever the sensible person said well if you're gonna buy it you should buy it before the end of the year because tax wise you know it it works better that way like the business the business buys it um and then that's less of a profit for the for the business it's less income for me there's good some good reasons to spend your money this year rather than next year. So I'm like, all right. And two minutes later, it was bought because I didn't need any more reasons.

That was a good enough reason for me. So I immediately bought the iPad. So it's coming. reason for me so i i immediately bought the ipad so it's coming similar kind of experience um while set that family get together of mine this weekend uh i took the ipad pro with me uh because my uncle is is he loves all this kind of stuff as well um and he buys most of these things but there are sometimes i'll show him something because he hasn't bought it yet and then he decides if he wants it this is like what happened with the apple watch he saw mine and then wanted one went ahead and bought one so i took the ipad pro to him and he was saying to me that he was convinced that he wasn't going to get one but

after a little demo he's now rethinking that idea um but there was a really funny moment where we were sitting down we kind of because we don't all get to see each other over uh the couple of days of christmas so we have a big kind of family Christmas dinner a couple of weeks before, before everybody goes off in their own separate directions to do whatever it is that they're doing over the holidays. So we basically had mini Christmas and we were trying to play music. My uncle was trying to play music and he was trying to plug in his iPhone into his stereo, but the cable, you know, like the 3.5 millimeter cable wasn't working.

Maybe that's why they should get rid of them, Jason, but we'll talk about that another day. And the Bluetooth thing that he was trying to use, he couldn't connect to it. So I was like, well, let me just go get the iPad Pro. And the speakers were so loud, right? That I was able to use it as the kind of the jukebox and put on my great Christmas music choices

for everybody to listen to. So again, I had one of those scenarios where people were kind of very interested in this product and it served an interesting and slightly unexpected purpose because it is incredible. I love my iPad Pro.

Yeah, so going this weekend i had that moment of like all right am i gonna bring a laptop and and what i found more than anything else about this ipad pro is that it has made me cease using my my macbook air because i have the imac at the desk i do my mac stuff at the desk. And then I've got this MacBook Air that I used to use a lot. I used to use it all the time. And then I used it a lot, but I had the iPad Mini and then the Air 2. And so I used it less. And with the iPad Pro, I use it none. I use it not at all. And I like that. That means that when I'm out here, I'm working on the Mac, and when I'm in the house or I'm traveling, I'm not. But could I do it traveling? Could I do it?

And I decided I was going to try it. I had all the files for this weekend's Incomparable. I just needed to copy them over to the iPad Pro. I had done an episode on Ferrite before, so I could probably do that again. And so I did. The only adjustment i made um and ferrite there was just an update it lets you export lossless now which is nice um uh and a couple of new things i there are a couple more things they need to do i still need to use a bluetooth keyboard with it for now because it takes too long to delete items using the the touch screen and the uh play pause control is not conveniently located. So I sit there with like...

So what I did this time is rather than having it be the traditional sort of keyboard in front of you and then screen out, because there's so much of editing audio with Ferrite that is touch-based, that I was getting the zombie arms that Apple talks about for the Mac, where you're sitting there using a touchscreen device

and you keep having to raise your hands up and, and use the touchscreen and how it's kind of unpleasant. And I was getting that and I was thinking, this is not, this is not fun because actually touching the screen and editing audio with touch is kind of great. It feels really great. So I took the iPad and I laid it flat on that dining room table and I had the, my Bluetooth keyboard next to me, like off to, off to the left. And I edited like that. So everything was flat on the table. And so they're side by side, uh, and the keyboard was turned a little bit.

So it was a little bit angled and a little bit closer. And that was fantastic. That was actually a really great experience. I had a lot of fun editing that podcast. So yeah, it's basically replaced. Again, you can't really record podcasts on iOS devices now. So if I have to record, it gets much more complicated. But just taking it away to do some editing, I could totally do it. And that's exciting. So yeah, it's funny. It is. I heard from some people when I said that I over the weekend that I bought it saying, well, of course,

you know, that's what you do is buy all the Apple stuff. It's not true. I don't buy all the Apple stuff. I buy very specific, you get most of it, but you don't buy it all. And then I sent it back. Right. Exactly. Right. And I, I, you know, I didn't buy an iPad six plus and, you know, but what has happened with the iPad is that I've gone over the course of a year from the iPad Mini to the iPad Pro. And I did not expect that to happen. And I fully expected to ship the iPad Pro back and be done with it. And this has been a surprise. So I think that's kind of interesting.

I still haven't tried Ferrite. I've downloaded it. I've opened it. But I haven't really done anything with it yet. I feel like I should. I've downloaded it. I've opened it, but I haven't really done anything with it yet. I feel like I should, but I have to say, even though I know it's really good,

I've heard great things. I'm just a little bit nervous of it. That's all. And I will do it eventually. Like I will have some time and I'll give it a go just because I trust your opinion on these things as always. So if you really like it and it's working for you and I've listened to the episode you've edited on it and wouldn't have known right yeah like i listened to the

incomparable the last incomparable today i had not they didn't sound bad i had no idea you were doing the star wars anticipation episode yeah yeah i wouldn't have known so it obviously does the job in a great way so i'll talk to you about it because i have a few questions but they're not really worth it for the show um and then maybe i'll give it a go and let people know what i think about it later on but i guess you know if you're using it and you're happy with it that's great but talking about apps um i've seen the first kind of crop of professional focused apps over the last week updated to take advantage of specific ipad pro features which is which is really interesting so dj pro and pixelmator have both been updated with the ipad pro in mind

yeah the dj pro um from algorithm is uh it's pretty crazy because it is taking advantage of the size of the screen and also the power of the processor you can do like two 4k videos i'm i'm i mean i have to admit i just don't get the dj thing but um i can tell you about the tech specs like two 4k videos at once um a whole bunch of different audio streams like what it is capable of doing is kind of amazing and it might be the first app i've seen that that i can say uh it's taking advantage of the fact that the iPad Pro has all that power. I suspect that most of the time the iPad Pro is not being put to the test. When I export, maybe when I'm using Ferrite and I've got multiple audio streams, yeah, I suppose it's really taking advantage of all the memory and the processor power of

the iPad Pro. But DJ, totally, it's crazy what it can do. And Pixelmator did an update similarly to add some iPad Pro features. So they're coming. You know, this is a key part of the iPad Pro being successful is that apps need to get updated to support it. Otherwise, because using scaled up apps on the iPad Pro stinks. I was using Dropbox and that was so painful. I can see now after this weekend, I know why Federico is so mad about Dropbox lagging because not only is that a scaled up iPad Pro app,

but I couldn't get it in Split View either. Yeah, for Dropbox, I don't care that it's scaled up because I'm not writing in it or anything. It doesn't look great, but I can deal with it. Yeah, it doesn't need to be beautiful. But the fact that I can't access it in split view is really frustrating to me. Yeah, or slide over.

It's super frustrating. But I saw an app updated as something that's really interesting to me. So Geometry Wars 3. Geometry Wars is an age-old game. It's been rebooted and updated so many times. It's still fantastic, by the way, if you've never played Geometry Wars

or if you've never played it on iOS. But they have updated for an iPad Pro only local multiplayer. So basically, what you do is, each of you hold the iPad or you have it in front of you kind of in what would be portrait

orientation, and you can both put your two thumbs on the screen and use the kind of the dual analog stick type movement and there are two characters like two spaceships that you can call flying around and destroying the enemies it's difficult to explain because the app is so kind of like just artistic in its way like there isn't really a story but you just fly around shooting other spaceships in a geometric world. It's awesome. And it's only on the iPad Pro.

And it makes sense because you need the space for two people to be able to both have both hands on the thing. Right. But it's really interesting. I don't know if a lot of games will add this. I don't think it would work for a lot of games, but I think it's super cool that it exists.

Cool. So that's something for you it was just it kind of caught my attention because there aren't a lot of apps that are doing things that are exclusive to the ipad pro right they're maybe doing things that are like oh it's a bit better here or it we have a bit more space here. But this is like, you actually can't play co-op multiplayer on any other device. Right. So I like that a lot. Yeah, I'll check it out. So I know we're talking a lot about the iPad Pro,

and I feel like I'm talking about it on more and more shows recently, but it really has become a very important device for me. And it's one of the more interesting things that apple have done recently but they've done it in a kind of non-fanfairy type way yeah yeah it's it's a hard you know it's a product that it's going to take time and it's going to take those app updates and i think it's a long-term strategy from Apple. But I think it's a very interesting product. I see people dismiss it.

And I just think, you know, this is not the product that all of us are going to use. It is definitely a very specific kind of product. But I think if you just dismiss it out of hand, then you're making a big mistake. Yeah, most definitely. So is there some news over the last couple of days that I'm sure are making you very happy? miss it out of hand then you're making a big mistake yeah most definitely so there was some news over the last couple of days i'm sure making you very happy yeah uh we uh complained a lot in recent shows about the apple tv and one of the fundamental questions that kind of baffled all of us was why did it not support the remote app? Because that would make a lot of things,

the remote app used with the old Apple TV, you can enter in passwords, you can enter in search terms, and you can kind of control the screen. Why can you not do that? And last week, Apple released an update to, they did a bunch of operating system updates, including a tvOS update

that enables support for the Apple remote. The Apple remote app got updated the next day, weirdly, and the release note said it supports the new Apple TV. But I used the previous version the day before, and it worked fine. So it was really about the tvOS update, that whatever, you know, whatever it's listening for, it wasn't listening for. And now it was listening for that remote app. And, um, and so now you can do that, which means that now if you get, uh, an Apple TV and you need to enter in passwords, you can go to your phone and launch the remote app and put the

passwords in there using the keyboard on the iPhone, which is great. Um, it's still emulating the old remote control. Um, and Apple, uh, was quoted as saying by saying by someone, I forget who they furnished the quote to, as saying they were working on an update, whether it's a new app or it's an update to the remote app that will emulate the full Siri remote, which presumably means like Siri remote tells like where your finger is moving on the trackpad. If you move your if you sort of swirl your thumb around on the trackpad, you can see the little icons move, the remote app is just left right up down, you know, even if you're sliding your finger across it, it doesn't do that it just translated as the old remotes left right up down. So presumably, it would get more detailed trackpad support and access to the gyroscope and accelerometer and

maybe the microphone for uh for for voice control uh and i wrote a post about this i i do wonder if this means that we're also headed for a software update that will enable more than one siri remote on the apple tv because then you could use the siri remotes like we remotes and play games and stuff with just the Siri remotes, which might be an interesting thing for people who don't want to buy game pads for the Apple TV. So it'll be interesting to see. The question becomes, and it's irrelevant now, I suppose, but the question remains, why was this not available at launch? And I guess the answer is just that they didn't have it ready.

Maybe they didn't realize that anybody cared, and this was a response to everybody complaining about it. But, yeah, it's still a little weird, but at least it's here now. That's great. This isn't something that bothers me at all, really. I'm fine with the remote, but, yeah, I'm happy that it's there for the people that want it, like yourself and Joe Steele.

Well, but it's not... See, the thing is, I think that part of this is that we're all happy to be just using the... We're past setup now. We're past setup now. So it is less relevant to all of us who are past setup now. Where it's relevant is for people who are setting up these things and are in that position where there's they're asked for their various service passwords five times that's where it's really important to have a product like this so there was some other there was another little uh apple tv thing which is kind of more located to my interests than yours or or just my geographical location,

which is the BBC iPlayer app has been debuted on the Apple TV, which is great that it's there. You know, this is something that wasn't at launch, but everybody loves iPlayer in this country. It's the BBC's online system

where you can watch their shows and it's free and as long as you put your TV license. But the interesting part is they have a link to it it they have a whole page that they've built on apple.com promoting the iplayer like if you go to apple.com slash uk right now it's one of the little banner items down the bottom and you can click it and i'll put a link in the show notes to the actual page that apple have built displaying iplayer as a big feature because it is a big feature they really should have endeavored to have it on here on day as a big feature because it is a big feature they really should

have endeavored to have it on here on day one but they've got it now and they're promoting it as a big part of the Apple TV in the UK and this is the I made this point about the Apple Watch a little bit too but in the end um the you know the bulk of sales and the bulk of experience with this stuff is probably going to happen a a lot of these products, is going to happen around Christmas. It's going to happen in December. And so they should have had this stuff at launch, but they have it now, which means that if people buy an Apple TV

for Christmas and it's under the tree, well, it's going to be there. They're not going to care that it wasn't there in September. If they couldn't get it for launch, it's good that they got it for christmas yeah because that's that's the time but i just thought it was really interesting that they made such a big song and dance about it um but what is funny about all of this of course is they've created a page to it but there's nothing you can do right you still have to go and search for it like there's nothing you can do for it. Yeah. Oh, and Joe Steele has said to me that it's apparently appearing on Apple TVs in the UK.

I have not seen this. That's interesting. If you're in the UK, maybe you just get it. That's cool. Yeah, that's weird, though. But hey, I mean, I like it, so I'm happy it's there. Just put it there.

But it's interesting that they're just shoving it in. But hey, hey-ho. Wonderful float you boat, man. like it so i'm just do it there but it's interesting that they're just shoving it in uh but hey hey ho whatever floats your boat man everybody loves iplayer here i don't think it's going to be an issue well i could argue that it would make it would make a more pleasurable apple tv setup experience in america if you had if they just went ahead and auto installed a handful of the most common sort of video services and things rather than making people do it. Wouldn't it be better if Netflix was available right out of the box? Yep. Probably. And is it really a big deal if you don't want it or if it auto-downloads when you set it up? What, you know, or it prompts you and says, would you like me to install these things instead of having to go to the app store? I don't know. They'll work on it. They'll get it better and

they'll get statistics about who's using what and they can use that to guide it to for sure i mean i guess they can't really put net it's more difficult to put netflix on there because it's not free right people still have to sign up for an account it's not kind of not you know it's not guaranteed that you can have access to it but in the uk if you have a tv you should be paying your tv license right so you should have access to iplayer you should be able to get access to iplayer interesting yeah there's tweets that uh joe steel has pasted in the chat room from people saying uh it definitely just appeared on their Apple TVs.

I don't have a problem with that. I'm sure people will throw the YouTube argument in. Bono approves. Bono gave the stamp of approval on this decision. Alright, should we take a break? Yeah, nice Doctor Who image on that BBC iPlayer page on Apple's site. One of the key things.

You've got a good Venn diagram there. Doctor Who watches have got to be in there somewhere. BBC, Apple lovers, Doctor Who, there's got to be a crossover. Definitely. This week's episode is also brought to you by Warby Parker. Quite frankly, glasses should not cost as much as an iPhone, but way too often they do, and this is what Warby Parker is setting out

to tackle. Warby Parker prescription glasses start at just $95 and this includes prescription lenses. That is a fantastic deal, especially considering because these are excellent looking frames. Warby Parker believes that glasses should be viewed as a fashion accessory, like a bag, a shoe, Parker believes that glasses should be viewed as a fashion accessory, like a bag, a shoe, a necktie, a hat, or even that fancy watch that you wear. Glasses actually change the look of your face, and you wear them front and center all of the time. You should be wearing great-looking glasses if you do need to wear glasses. Or sunglasses if you want to wear sunglasses because it's sunny outside,

or you drive, you should be wearing a nice pair. And this is what Warwick Parker is all about. As well as these fantastic prescription glasses at 95 they have a titanium collection that starts at 145 again including prescription lenses in that price these feature premium japanese titanium and french non-rocking screws they sound very fancy but all of their glasses also include anti-reflective and anti-glare coating there is no additional cost for these and you also get yourself a lovely hard case and cleaning cloth as well you're not going to have to pay extra for these little items which is fantastic at warby parker but the best part of them and the thing that makes them really stand out is their home try on experience so you select the five up to five pairs of glasses that you like the look

of with their home try on they'll They'll ship them to you directly. You can try them on in the comfort of your own home for five days, where you can get feedback from friends, family, and colleagues. They can tell you if you look good or not in the glasses that you've chosen. You then send them back for free, of course, using the prepaid return shipping label with no obligation to purchase. And then when you're happy with the ones that you've decided, you place your order.

Orbit Parker will get started on them right away, and you'll have them in your hands within 10 business days. Mr. Jason Snell, you are a Warby Parker owner, are you not? Yeah, I've got a pair of sunglasses, prescription sunglasses that I got from them and that I wear as my sunglasses now. I was wearing those this weekend because on Friday, we had a nice sunny day. It rained on Saturday, but on friday it was nice and sunny and we were driving around going to this place and that out in the valley and uh absolutely had my have my sunglasses with me and then driving home we um the rain stopped and the sun came out and i uh had to switch into my warby parker sunglasses and they're very nice i enjoy them quite a bit. It's nice to have a good pair of sunglasses.

No doubt. So you can go and find out more about this yourself and choose your five free home try-on frames by going to warbyparker.com upgrade. Send the frames back, choose your favorite pair and order. And if you visit that URL, warbyparker.com upgrade and order that way, you will get free three-day shipping

on your final frame choice. Warby Parker makes your experience completely risk-free with free shipping all around, and you'll be contributing to a charitable cause as well, because for every pair of glasses sold, Warby Parker distributes a pair of glasses

to someone in need. Thanks so much to Warby Parker for their support of this show. Go to warbyparker.com slash upgrade to sign up today. So, Mr. Snell, a couple of weeks ago you uh published a little article that i thought was interesting and i think that some of our listeners might do too which was the use of a service called cast could you explain to listeners what cast is all about

so cast cast is i like that you went with that you would i just got you there didn't i use it it's cost see you have to buy it and it costs no all right let me try it let me try it in your way cast well yes it's a pot pod blank that's the that's the word you're looking for c-a-s-t uh cast as a service uh takes advantage there are a few of these that were beta testing this summer, and this one launched last week, two weeks ago. And it is a service, you pay, you subscribe, although there's a trial. And it uses technology that exists in Chrome, though not yet in Safari, that allows some very clever things to happen. So basically, it's a podcast service. And what you do is as a subscriber to cast, you are the host essentially of a podcast. And you say, I'm going

to do a new podcast. And you get a link, a share, a shareable link that you send to your guest or guests. And I think you can have up to three guests. Um, and they click on the link in and open it in Chrome. They have to open it in Chrome. It won't work in Safari and they connect to your show page. And, uh, and then once you're on that page, you can all hear each other. Uh, and what cast is doing in the background is it is, um, it is, uh, you, you pick your microphone that you're using and it compresses the audio and like you would with Skype or Google hangouts or something like that and sends it up to the server and then relays it to the other people. So in that way, it's just like Skype. It's not any different. You hear other people's voices. And you're all looking at the same webpage and you

can actually send little notes to each other. So again, it's a little bit like Skype. The big difference is that with Cast, you are also, while you're sending that audio up, it's also recording your microphone at a much higher quality and uploading that in the background to its server. So when the podcast is over, oh, and as a host, you decide when everything starts recording and you click the button and the recording begins. So your guests don't need to remember to press the record button, which believe me, people forget. They don't need to launch software that they use to record their own audio because the best sounding podcast, you record your own audio and then transfer the file later. And that's what we do in all the Relay podcasts. So Cast does all of that. So when you're done with the conversation, the host press stop, and the cat cast will bring up a little dialog box that says, please wait while I upload the rest of your local file, usually doesn't take very long, because usually if there's enough bandwidth, it's been kind of sneakily record

uploading chunks of it in the background. When all is said and done, what cast has is your local local recording version of everybody who is in the conversation. And you can do a few things with that. You can actually edit it in the Cast app on the web. Basically, it's got some pretty simple trim and insertion functionality. So you can trim the beginning and end of the podcast and remove some mistake in the middle and drop in an ad and put in some music. But it's rudimentary, but you can do it. You can also just download the audio files as a bundle, and it will let you as the host download everybody's individual tracks

for you to take away and edit yourself. And I think that's really interesting because it allows you to get pretty good audio quality out of people without them having to do any of those things that are a little more complicated, like launching an app or downloading and launching an app and pressing record and then saving the file out in the right format and then remembering to transfer it to you in a timely fashion. That all happens behind the scenes. All they have to do is go to a web page in chrome and talk and you can even tell what microphone they're using because if you if you hear it that's the microphone that it's using and so you you know what the recording is going to sound like so i think it's pretty clever and what was your impression of the the quality of the audio that was produced like what did it did it was it

comparable in to the stuff that you would usually call it me you would usually record it like core recorder or audio hijack yeah it seems to be it seems to be like 128 or 192 mp3 that's going up to the server which is uh pretty good i have some people who record their audio lossless but i don't it's not really. Voice is so simple a thing that it can easily be encompassed in a 128 or a 192 file. So I was actually quite happy with it. I did an episode of TV Talk Machine, episode 62, and I didn't edit with that. I just downloaded the file. But my co-host, Tim, I usually just record using Skype and I don't even bother to have him. He is not a very technical person. So I do not have him set up something and record it and send me his file and all that. It's just like it's too much trouble. But with this, I didn't have to do that and it worked fine.

So I might do it again. I might do it again. I'm not sure in the end, if for a two person conversation, if your, if your connection is stable, it's really necessary to record their end of the conversation because two it's when you get more than two people, or if somebody sounds really bad and, you know, Skypey and, uh, and robotic that you need to, to rely on that, on that. So, um, I was pretty happy with that. You know, it's we when you and i tried it um we had some this summer there were a lot of artifacts and it was no good this is in the beta like just to kind of to say we tried it in the beta period and we weren't very impressed of it but you seem to have had better experiences than what we had basically we just got some really bad

sounding audio files out at the end of it yeah but in the beta and then you said that so we did dan and i are now doing a a podcast for six colors subscribers and we did the first one using this as a test and i thought it sounded okay although you said you you heard some artifacts in it yeah i definitely did that um it's difficult to explain them but just there were times where i would hear what sounds like you're a little bit underwater. Yeah, I'm not quite sure what was going on. That one I tried to edit using their tools and export out the final flattened version. Yeah, it sounds like they were doing

some really heavy compression on it that was screwing things up. And then what happened was the compression that they were, they have a compression setting that they let you do that is supposed to level everything out and it was over modulating everything so i ended up having it come out uncompressed and running it through levelator which also can make things sound weird but it sounded better um but generally i think for my use i would just take the take the files away and do my own editing but if you're somebody

who um wants i i think this is encouraging because if you want to do group podcasts and you don't want to have a whole lot of uh a lot of uh software and setup and all of that and you really just want to get that conversation um this this you could do it all in the browser i i feel like you it's missing some key features like being if somebody coughs on one of the tracks you should be able to take that out yeah because currently you can't do that no like if you want to remove something you remove it from all tracks not single tracks which is exactly kind of a bit crazy if you ever edited a podcast you know how crazy that is really you need to be able to take parts out of each of each track and

it sounds like they're working on it i talked to their developers and they said that they're that they're working on that and some of the challenges are how you do that with a good interface in the web browser but uh they are working on it it's just it's an interesting service and um and has the potential to make it easier for regular people to get on a podcast without a lot of uh technical hassle and i think that's good most of my panelists for for shows are old hands at this now and it's not an issue. But I could see how this would be great if you were working for a radio station or a podcast that you've got sort of random people coming on all the time, that this would be as long as they've got Chrome, which you can download for free on every platform.

That's the problem though, right? Because it's like this is good for basically not having to tell somebody how to download and install and use skype yeah but you still need them to go and download chrome i mean i don't need to sign up for an account which is at least one step which is better right but they still have there's still some hand holding that has to be done if they don't already have chrome if they do have chrome you're off to the races because you just send them an email with a link in it and just say, go here, and then it's done. And my daughter has a Chromebook,

and Chromebooks were not suitable for podcasting, and now they are. Good point. Because this is, because they only will do whatever runs in the browser, but this runs in the browser. And then I had that moment where I realized, because I wrote about this and I tweeted about it and I had some people misunderstood and thought that I was saying you could do this on the iPad. I'm also talking about podcasting on the iPad.

These are not the same conversation. But imagine, so imagine if Safari, this is the real thing, and I don't know if Apple plans on doing this, but imagine if Safari is updated at some point to support this. I think it's part of a standard. It's like an audio spec where you can record and upload audio. And it's using some very specific features that are implemented by Chrome but haven't yet been implemented by Safari. Well, I guess what it's doing is using some of the frameworks that Google Chrome have being able to store information as well, right? Like what's built into Chrome OS, which is also part of Google Chrome have being able to store information as well, right? Like what's built into Chrome OS, which is also part of Google Chrome.

I think... Because it has to be able to store the audio somewhere in a cache whilst it's uploading it. Yeah, I think it's using WebRTC, which is not yet supported. You may be able to use Firefox and Edge edge too i think it's just safari that doesn't do this but this goes all the way back to that discussion from a couple of months ago right about safari kind of lagging behind oh yeah yeah this is the this is this is a question is like is this a um so i can't tell you what apple's opinion of these of these features are

but i can tell you that if Safari used this, that would be really interesting. And if Safari used this on iOS, it would be very interesting, because then you have a scenario where if you can plug a microphone into an iPad or an iPhone, and Apple updated iOS 9.2 supports even more USB devices on iPhones. iPads already supported them. And yes, there are power issues where some microphones require that you have a powered hub, but some don't. But it would be very interesting if you could launch a browser and go to this website on an iPad or a Mac or a Chromebook or a PC or a, or an Android device.

And as long as a microphone was attached, you could record a podcast and it didn't matter because the service was doing the recording. The audio was getting uploaded automatically. That's really interesting to me. But unfortunately it just doesn't, it just didn't work now. So,

you know, short of either cast doing an app on iOS, which seems unlikely, because they would have to implement WebRTC or whatever else they're doing here, or short of Apple, you know, I think it's Apple allowing Chrome to run on iOS with its own engine, which also seems to be unlikely, it really is going to be a matter of, will there be an update to Safari at some point in iOS and on the Mac that supports this functionality? I don't, I don't know if that'll happen or not, but it's interesting. It's, uh, it's, it's intriguing stuff. So, and I like to see it. It's a, it's a cool use of, of, uh, the incumbents like Skype seem to not, you know, they don't care that everybody's using them for podcasting.

So this is an interesting alternative. It is a paid alternative if you're the host, the guests are free, but if you're a host. But I thought it was really interesting. It's one of the more intriguing attempts at a podcast recording system that I've seen. Should we do some Ask Upgrade? I think that's a great idea.

This week's Ask Upgrade is brought to you by GoToMeeting. I want you to just for a moment picture what it can be like to set up a meeting in today's world. When I'm asking you to go back in time, because this is something that happens in offices all over the globe today, you ask somebody if they're free for a meeting or check their calendar, you try and book it in. You can finally find a time with somebody and you get the meeting arranged. But then you need to find a room or a place. Like where are these rooms and places? It could be in the building that you're in or maybe you have to go somewhere else.

Another building to get to a room where you can actually both sit down together. You've got to try and book that room. I remember when I worked in a big building with thousands of people inside. You couldn't find a room for love nor money for weeks in advance. You had to try and call people to beg and plead with the administration team so they could try and get you a room set up. And, you know, it was just insane. Then you need all the technical stuff. Let's say you want to do a presentation. You've got to make sure there's a projector. You've got to have all the dongles. This is madness. Like people just shouldn't be meeting this way. They should be using GoToMeeting from Citrix instead. It is the better way to meet with people. You can meet your

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and you'll have your first meeting up and running in minutes. Once again, visit gotomeeting.com for your free 30-day trial thank you so much to citrus go to meeting for supporting this week's episode of upgrade and ask upgrade oh i should mention uh cast is try cast uh t-r-y-c-a dot s-t i'll make sure it's in the show notes. If you want to check it out, yeah. If you do want to find those show notes on the web, they're over at relay.fm slash upgrade slash 67. And if you want to become a Relay.fm member and support this show,

there are buttons there conveniently to allow you to do that. And I will say that Cast also only officially supports Chrome, although other browsers do support some parts of the WebRTC thing, just not Safari. What was that URL again? Was it

tricast.com? No, it's tricast. Oh, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, you need to go to the show. It's one of those tricky domains. Yeah. All right.

So the first Ask Up Great question this week comes from Luke. Luke is thinking of buying an Apple Watch and wants to know if we think he should wait for the rumored Apple Watch 2 or buy one when hopefully they may be on sale just after Christmas. Like we have Box boxing day sales here in the uk where i assume he's because he referenced boxing day um so that means you know that some stuff will go on sale maybe apple will do a sale or some other company will offer you know a sale on apple watch potentially or maybe just at some point in the next couple of months do you think

that luke should go ahead and get one now or is it worth waiting? I don't know. I feel like with the Apple Watch, you should just do what feels right. People are asking for upgrade advice here, Jason. We need to give this guy some advice. I have a hard... Well, this is what I'm saying, though. I have a hard time answering this question

because it depends on how much do you want an Apple Watch. I feel like I don't think there's a new Apple Watch imminent. I mean, there are rumors that they're testing things and that it may be that the new Apple Watch will be like the old Apple Watch, except it'll have a FaceTime camera, which I'm not sure how compelling that is. Hopefully there's more in there. But are they really going to release that in the spring or is it going to be the fall? And do you want to wait until the fall? I don't know. It's a bleeding edge product.

So at the same time, it's hard to recommend it in the same way that I would recommend an iPad or an iPhone because it's a first generation product. I wear mine every day and I enjoy it. But it's not – it's totally going to get better in the next few years. And so, sure, wait. Don't even wait for going to get better in the next few years. And so sure. Wait, wait, don't even wait for Apple watch to wait for Apple watch three. If you want to have a really spectacular Apple watch, but if you want to wear an Apple watch now, then you should buy it. And I think that's really my advice is I enjoy mine. I, I talk to people who really like theirs.

I think that, um, the people who don't like the watch as much are perhaps, I think perhaps there's a judgment about like what do we think it was going to be versus what it is. What it is is not everything that perhaps people hoped it would be, I would say. But I like what it is. I like that it gives me notifications and taps me on the wrist and tells me the time and has little complications that give me other bits of information and monitors my fitness stuff and is my alarm clock. There are lots of things I like about it. So I wear it all the time. But your mileage may vary. But, you know, if you can get a deal on one, I don't feel like there's going to be one. I could be wrong, but I don't feel like there's going to be a huge new Apple watch that it does everything and solves every problem and is going to be out in the next few

months. That seems highly unlikely to me. I would say, Luke, if you find one on sale and the price is right for you, then I would go for it. Joe steel in the chat room says, would we,

what will we do about the apple tv for the holidays would i recommend one yeah you're the worst person to ask yeah because i'd just say like whatever man i'd say i'd say um i like it so i would say yeah i think i think it's uh i think it's a pretty good product but but again it comes down to what do they what what video services do they use? And do they want to play games? And do they use a lot of Apple stuff and rent or buy a lot of iTunes movies? Because it's the only box that'll do any of those things. I spend most of my time on my TiVo now because my TiVo does Hulu and Netflix and Amazon Video. So plus it's my DVR, right? So I, I, I don't need a lot

more other than the iTunes stuff. But, um, I think it's, I think at this point it's a fun video box. I wouldn't, there are cheaper options. I mean, if somebody just wants something cheap, get them a fire TV stick for what? $39. But, uh, but I, I? But I feel like it's much more of a complete product in some ways than the Apple TV is because it's got, you know, the Apple TV hardware is going to improve over the next three or four years in a way that I don't think the Apple TV, the Apple Watch hardware will improve dramatically because it's a first generation piece of hardware. And Apple TV is not a first generation piece of hardware and apple tv is not a first generation piece of hardware the os is and and the store is new but the hardware is using not only just is it the fourth generation of apple tv hardware but it's also based on all the ios hardware in a way that um the apple watch

isn't so much because it's so miniaturized it's a it's a much harder problem to solve rajiv would like to know is there any more evidence besides the support tech chat thing that came out a couple of weeks ago that amazon is bringing an app to the current apple tv i haven't seen anything i wondered if you've seen anything no i think the only other evidence is that the amazon apps are on ios and therefore it's not a big leap and that if they weren't going to put them on there, that would be out of spite more than anything else. And as we've talked about before, ultimately Amazon wants to be everywhere

and they want to be indispensable everywhere. And they don't want there to be other boxes that are impediments to becoming an Amazon customer because they don't support Amazon's things. It's like Apple's not going to stop Amazon from being on the Apple TV. So why would Amazon not go on the Apple TV, especially since they've got the iOS apps?

So my guess is that they will be there. But evidence? No. There's none of that. I think they'll do it because yeah you know business but it's just gonna take them a while because it's not maybe not a priority yeah it may just be as simple as a development priority of uh you know what what other stuff what other stuff they're working on across all fronts do they want to go through the holidays pointing everybody at the at their own

devices and then only after the holidays uh come in and drop uh drop it that's a that's a you know that's part spite part strategy but yeah maybe i don't know i don't know i think it makes amazon strong offering stronger to be on apple tv because it allows them to say we are everywhere including apple's device instead of saying you know we're everywhere except the new apple tv why that's not the game that i think amazon is playing jimmy uh wanted to know about my ipad pro stickers so i mentioned i've been putting stickers on the ipad pro and he asked a question i think is an excellent question and was something that i considered jimmy wants to know is mike placing his stickers on his ipad pro to be viewable from any direction or to be right side up when docked

in the keyboard cover. So on my MacBook Pro, the majority of my stickers are oriented to be viewed from whatever, you know, so say it'd be, if you're looking at my MacBook when I'm using it, I have the lid open, you would be able to read them all, right? They're placed in a way that they all kind of, you know, they're placed in the landscape orientation so it all works out. On my iPad Pro, because I can use it in any orientation and do, I considered this and they're all sticking in all different ways.

I have, so there will be stickers viewable from all orientations. I have only got a small handful of stickers on there right now. I need to do some work on choosing some stuff. Obviously, I have less surface area, which is why I'm being a little bit more picky about it, because on the MacBook, I have

two surfaces to put stickers on. So it's coming along. I have a few on there. I have some of my favorites and a couple of relay stickers on there right now. But yeah, I am considering that they should be viewable from any and all orientations so it's a bit of a mixed bag this is a great question also i was thinking about this

this weekend um when i use the i'm using the ipad pro with a with the the old apple wireless keyboard and that that in case origami workstation thing that doesn't exist anymore one of the nice things about that is that you can use it in portrait or landscape. And there are times when you're writing that actually having the tall screen is kind of neat. It's kind of fun having the, having that taller screen. Since it's a four by three, it's not as dramatic. You couldn't really, I think it would be kind of crazy to have it be, it was super tall. It was a 16 by nine device, but it's not. But most of the time, and Apple's keyboard cover works this way, you're working on the iPad in landscape orientation. And I had this moment when I was walking down the stairs at my sister-in-law's house, and I looked over and I saw

my iPad Pro sitting on the table in the workstation, or maybe it was in the keyboard dock, because I also had the keyboard cover with me. Maybe it was in the keyboard dock because i also had the keyboard cover with me maybe it was in the keyboard cover but regardless um and i looked at it and i thought why other than that the iphone and the and then the ipad are like this why is the apple oriented on the back in portrait and not landscape i think it's a mistake i think think the iPad Pro ought to have the Apple in landscape. Because they're actually promoting it and showing this thing in ads and stuff as being used in landscape. Isn't landscape the primary orientation?

Maybe it's not, but it seems like if you're attaching a keyboard to it and propping it up on a table and working on it, a sideways Apple maybe isn't what you want there. Maybe they just decided that it's too weird when somebody holds it in portrait to have a sideways Apple. But short of Apple patenting a new system that auto-rotates the Apple logo based on

the orientation of the device, it's a hard problem to solve, but I just had a moment where I thought, I'm not sure this device is a primary portrait orientation device. It feels like a very landscapy product to me. And yet the Apple placement would suggest either kind of brand inertia or a feeling like portrait is still the thing that the iPad is for. I'm not sure I agree with the iPad Pro. In fact, if you look at the Apple website for iPads, well, it's laying at a jaunty angle, isn't it? But Jupiter is being displayed with an orientation that suggests that it belongs in portrait orientation on that page. And I think that's just kind of funny.

Because is it? Or is that just sort of... I mean, I use mine in portrait a bunch. I do, too. I do, too. There are a lot of things to be said for it, in fact. But the keyboard work, you know, when you're doing the keyboard work, you're usually in landscape. I don't know.

It's just funny. So that Ask Upgrade question was funny because it made me think, too, about, like, what is the right thing to do? Perhaps your answer is the best, which is just all the great orientations are the way to do it. Last Ask Upgrade question this week is actually from me to you. Okay. Well, this is unprecedented, but I'll allow allow it how excited are you for star wars how excited are you for star wars i'm really excited i'm very very much looking forward to 11 a.m on thursday when i will see Star Wars before you. I'm very excited.

I saw a TV spot last night, which it was on the TV, so there's nothing I can do about it. I was very... It had some stuff in it that I hadn't seen yet. And I was screaming whilst it was on i am getting extremely excited now wow it had some really cool footage in it jason i don't know if you've seen it or not and i won't spoil it for anybody else but i probably have there was some stuff i hadn't seen and i was very excited so i think i've probably seen them all at this point.

But I listened to the Incomparable episode, which I'll put in the show notes because people should go and listen to that, where you and Ren and John and Dan were talking about your excitement for it. And I was just wondering how you're feeling now. It is the week. Yeah, well, I mean, that episode was funny

because I had people asking me if it was a spoilery episode. And the answer is, well, no, John was on it. And John refuses to be spoiled. So, of course not. It's about anticipation. It's about the fact that this was all announced three years ago. And we've been talking about it since then.

And now it is upon us. So, it's sort of like, you know, it's an interesting subject about just anticipating Star Wars and what are our expectations and what are our concerns. And I'm excited. I would say, yeah, I'm excited. How excited I am? of my friends who are total huge star wars fans i i read i think a couple of star wars books and a few star wars comics but i was never like like i read dozens of star trek books but not star wars books so i was always much more of a star trek fan i was much more um especially when i was about 14 or 13 much more of a doctor who fan much more of a star trek fan. I was much more, especially when I was about 14 or 13, much more of a Doctor Who fan, much more of a Star Trek fan. Star Wars was always present and I love it, but I was never like a super fan. You know, I did two months ago, I did buy tickets for opening night for Thursday night at seven o'clock, even though my daughter has a final

the next morning. So we're going, you're going, do your studying before and after, but we're going. This is your problem now. Yeah, exactly. I gave her two months notice. So, um, you know, so yeah, I definitely am excited about it. I just, it's funny because like John is taking Friday off from work to go see it. John is seeing it Thursday alone, Friday with his wife and Saturday with his whole family. Right. I mean, I'm pretty much considering that I'm taking the day off. Right. Like I, I don't know if I'll be able to function completely.

Yeah. See, so I think that's, I think that's great. I think that's really exciting. Um, there, there's, you know,

there's not a lot that I am. I am that enthusiastic about. I think these days I, I, I have a lot, I spread myself kind of thin where I'm enthusiastic about a lot of things, but not, I'm not like super excited about one thing,

like in this just eruption of a fandom, not so much, but I'm not like super excited about one thing like in this just eruption of uh of fandom not so much but um i'm excited for it i'm looking forward to it i'm also as i've gotten older i've gotten really good at playing the game that it'll be here eventually and that um i'll i'll it'll be great when it gets here but i'm not gonna i realized i had that um there's the the phrase basically i can't wait i can't wait people say and it's that actually in the last few years that started to strike me as a as a kind of a crazy phrase it's kind of ridiculous i can't wait it's like well first off you you have to but i don't wanna get used to disappointment but you actually do have to wait and it'll be here before you know it and then it'll be gone before you know it and so and there's a lot going on there's

a lot to be excited about so for me it's been like that thing on the i've had it hanging on a on a hook on my wall of like then the star wars movie will come out and the nice thing about that is by by just kind of having it in the background and not getting too worked up about it, then you turn around one day and you're like, Hey, the new Star Wars movie is this week. All right. And it's like, not like I didn't know that it was coming, but you know, I don't know by modulating my enthusiasm a little bit. Um, it's more bearable. The weight is more bearable. And then it's a little more like a nice surprise or a nice gift when it finally does arrive. So I i'm i'm happy that it's here and i'm looking forward to it and i hope

it's i hope it's really good and i hope it is fodder for many many discussions on podcasts i hope so too i don't know where i'm going to talk about it but i'm going to have to talk about it somewhere well we may be doing like 10 episodes of The Incomparable about it for all I know. So, who knows. We'll do a little mini-mic at the movies maybe next week. Yeah, that's what we'll do. Yep. Good idea. Plus, there's going to be no tech news next week, right?

Absolutely zero. Zilch is out of nothing. We'll just talk about Star Wars next week. We'll have something to talk about. We'll talk about Star Wars. So, there you go. No complaints about spoilers now, everyone. We've told you. Next week, we will. We'll talk about Star Wars. So there you go. No complaints about spoilers now, everyone. We've told you. Next week, we will very likely be talking about Star Wars. We'll fire off the spoiler horn before.

But maybe we'll have some good follow-up from web browser experts explaining exactly why Safari will never support WebRTC and demanding a much more clear definition of what a command line interface is. And why Launchpad is superior to OS X. Just why it should be the only way of interacting with anything. If we're ever hurting for topics, that's what I need to do is just declare some feature of the OS, something that nobody uses,

and then just watch the... Let's do it now. I'm going to do it now, Mike. I'm going to say... Nobody uses Dashboard. Yeah. the ir let's do it now i'm gonna do it now mike i'm gonna i'm gonna say uh nobody uses dashboard yeah nobody uses dashboard it's dead why is it even why can you still turn it on yeah take that i was gonna use like grab or or net network image utility or grapher or something like that but no that's it dashboard nobody uses dashboard it's for chumps yep chumps and the old school losers right in right in if you disagree and we'll talk about

dashboard next week see we're making topics beautiful talking about making topics uh we're starting our planning for the upgradies if you we've had a few suggestions of categories if you do want to suggest a category for the Upgradees, please use the hashtag AskUpgrade when you do so, and then we'll be able to... Don't try to spell Upgradees, hashtag Upgradees. Just weren't... Hashtag AskUpgrade,

please. Because then it goes into the document that we use for the AskUpgrade, so it makes it really easy to find. If you want to find our show notes for this week, as I said before, head on over to relay.fm slash upgrade slash 67. If you want to find our show notes for this week as I said before head on over to relay.fm slash upgrade slash 67 if you want to find Jason online he is over at sixcolors.com and you can also find

his other great podcasts as well as his relay shows you can find these other great podcasts over at the incomparable.com there's a lot of great stuff there and also Jason is at jsnl on twitter jsnll I am at imike thanks m y k e thanks again to go to meeting warby parker and lynda.com for helping support this week's show we'll be back

next time until then say goodbye mr snell may the force be with you and with you