Swords, Sorcery, and Socialism - [TEASER] China Pt. 4: Unlearning Anti-China Propaganda w/ Li Jingjing

Starting point is 00:00:00 A quick note before we jump into this Patreon episode. Thank you to all of our Patreon subscribers for making Upstream possible, we genuinely couldn't do this without you. Your support allows us to create bonus content like this and provide most of our content for free so we can continue to offer political education media to the public and help to build our movement. Thank you comrades. We hope you enjoy this conversation. I think for me to really understand, have a whole better perspective is that I study in other countries. I studied in the UK for my master degree and I also travel around the world to see different

Starting point is 00:01:02 countries. And I would admit when I was in my younger years as a teenager, I was also glamorized by Western culture, like we many of us were did, because the propaganda was really strong. And the US does have a very strong soft power, influence. So we were all glamorized by western culture So I think for many young people during certain years of their lifetime they will have doubts about their own roots, their own culture But we also realized the more you travel abroad

Starting point is 00:01:43 the more patriotic you become. You're listening to Upstream. Upstream. Upstream. Upstream. A show about political economy and society that invites you to unlearn everything you thought you knew about the world around you. I'm Della Duncan.

Starting point is 00:02:00 And I'm Robert Raymond. Living in a world dominated by the United States leaves us all with a lifetime of propaganda to unlearn. No matter what corner of the globe we're in, we're not immune to Western hegemony and the hard and soft power deployed to brainwash our minds, exploit our bodies, and destroy our cultures. But there are, despite the power of capitalist PR and commodity fetishism, alternative pathways. There are ways to unlearn the propaganda. And in today's episode,

Starting point is 00:02:34 we're going to attempt to do just that, break at least some of the chains of imperialist propaganda when it comes to China. Li Jingjing is a multimedia reporter at China Global Television Network or CGTN based in Beijing China. And despite the scare tactics of Mark Zuckerberg and our other tech overlords labeling her Instagram account as China state-controlled media, which is a real pot-calling the kettle black moment as the oligarchs in the White House text their plans to bomb hospitals in Yemen to high-profile journalists. Despite these Red Scare labels applied to Lee only meant to fearmonger and propagandize, Lee's social media is a breath of fresh air when it comes to unlearning Western propaganda on China. In this conversation, part four of our China series here on Patreon, we bring some of Li's shorter videos

Starting point is 00:03:31 dispelling propaganda to you in a more long form way, starting with a conversation about her recent coverage of the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, which we introduced in part two of this series with Ken Hammond. Li explains to us how the political system in China works and what some of the policy outcomes of these conferences were, before embarking on a fascinating conversation that weaves together personal anecdotes and stories with data and statistics to dismantle many

Starting point is 00:04:03 of the myths we believe about China, and which reveal a picture of a society that our warmongering policymakers and their lapdogs in the media don't want you to know about. And now, here's Robert in have you on the show. Thank you for having me. And happy birthday. You were just telling me before we hit record that it's your birthday today. So I'm really honored that you're doing this for us on your birthday.

Starting point is 00:04:43 Thanks so much and happy birthday. Thank you. This made this show even more special. It's also my honor to join your program and share my observations, my work with your followers. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we've been following you on Instagram for a minute now, and I think a lot of our listeners may already know who you are but just in case for some reason they haven't come across your work yet I'm wondering maybe you could start by introducing yourself and just telling us a little bit about how you came to do the work that you're doing. Thank you. So my name is Li Jingjing in Chinese Li Jingjing. So I've been working as a journalist in China for more than 10 years now, 11, 12 years. That's just revealed my age, I guess. So I've been covering politics,

Starting point is 00:05:37 international relations, cultural stuff, like for the past 11, 12 years working as a journalist. And I'm so fortunate to have this opportunity to have this profession because this work gave me the opportunity to travel every corner of China, even to the most remote regions, going through all the villages, going through all the ethnic groups. So that gave me deeper understanding about my own country and my own culture. So I did many projects covering poverty alleviation projects on the ground. I attended several major international political conferences, including China's domestic annual most important political meeting, the two sessions or G20

Starting point is 00:06:26 summit in Brazil last year, the China Africa cooperation forum, Boao forum, all these economic and international relations forum. So they gave me deep understandings about both my own country, culture, politics, and international relations. So I start to become very active and vocal on social networks such as Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Because several years ago, I noticed there's increasing amount of anti-China propaganda that many of them are just all right lies. And some of them, like part of them true, but some Western reporters were

Starting point is 00:07:14 twisting the fact. And during the 2020, I think the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, the city of Wuhan was under lockdown. I was one of the reporters that was sent to the epicenter in the lockdown to cover what was happening. And so I saw what was happening in that city and how everybody was pulling together to overcome this challenge. And then that was at the height of anti-China propaganda. You saw incredible racist everything like on social networks. So I became fed up with this. I'm the reporter. I know what's happening on the ground.

Starting point is 00:07:59 I'm a Chinese. I know much deeper, much better about my own culture, my own people, better than those correspondents. So how about I tell my own stories to the people who have interests. So that's how I became very vocal on social networks. Wow. Yeah, thanks so much for that. And I'm thinking back on that time too, actually, and being on the other side of things and Hearing about a lot of the I mean there was just the really like you said racist outlandish egregious

Starting point is 00:08:34 rhetoric coming out of the Trump administration but then even beyond that just a lot of like really fucked up criticism against the lockdowns and like really like really fucked up criticism against the lockdowns and like really highlighting how authoritarian the Chinese state was and all this stuff that was like as you know millions of people were dying here in the United States the audacity that we had here to criticize the way that China was dealing with COVID in what I would consider to be an extremely responsible way, at least in relation to how the United States was dealing with that. So just like a great encapsulation of the that you spent a lot of time and continue to spend a lot of time covering politics and culture and other issues in China. One of the reasons that I reached out to you and when I first did reach out to you were telling me about the National

Starting point is 00:09:38 People's Congress and how you were going to be covering that. And some of our listeners might recall our episode with Ken Hammond, where a few episodes ago in the series, we talked about the National People's Congress, the NPC. I mentioned in that episode, we'll be speaking to a journalist that's covering that. And here we are. So maybe if you could just set the stage for us

Starting point is 00:10:00 a little bit and talk about sort of what was happening at this meeting and maybe situate it within the broader political landscape in China. So the reason I mentioned it because the meeting, China's annual most important political meeting just finished in mid-March. And I think that's a best example for people to understand China's political system. For those who are interested in, I think this starting point, because I think for decades, some media, some politicians try to tell people outside of China, they're just saying China is just authoritarian state, that people have no control, no say in their life.

Starting point is 00:10:44 But that is not true. And these two sessions is the best example to debunk that lies. So okay, there's a lot to unpack. How about we start explaining China's political system? Because I think China's modern political system, there are several fundamental things. China political system mainly includes the socialist system, the system of people's congresses, the system of regional ethnic autonomy, and the system of grassroots self-governance,

Starting point is 00:11:17 and a system of multi-party cooperation and a political consultation under the CPC. Then today we're gonna talk about the People's Congress system, which is the fundamental political system and the institutional guarantee for Chinese people to be involved in the decision-making and the policy making process.

Starting point is 00:11:40 And also, I will also talk a little bit about this multi-party cooperation of political consultation system. These two are very important because it demystify lots of China's political system and debunk Western false narrative. Because this two system makes sure it broadly involves people from every region, every ethnic group, every field, every sector in the decision-making and policy-making process. So at the beginning of March, we call it two sessions because we have two important meetings, which is the National People's Congress.

Starting point is 00:12:17 You can call it NPC. We also have the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. Very complicated, but you can remember just as CPPCC. So the NPC and the CPPCC, together we call them two sessions. It will be held every March for a week. All the deputies, members of these two meetings will come to Beijing, gather at the grid hall of the people to set the yearly goals for the entire country. They will elect leaders, they will change the laws and the constitutions, and make plans like economic plans, political

Starting point is 00:13:03 plans for the country for the entire year. So this is the meeting that sets the country's yearly goals. So why these two are important? For example, for the deputies to the NPC, National People's Congress, there are over 3,000, almost 3,000 people that are deputies to China's National People's Congress, the NPC. And the NPC is China's top legislature and the highest organ of the state power. And the members to the CPPCC, the CPPCC is the country's top political adversary body. So these are the functions of the two meeting.

Starting point is 00:13:52 MPC is the one have the state power. And the CPPCC political adversary body, that includes CPC and eight other parties in China to work together with CPC to make decisions. So I think that also demystifies some Western media lies, narratives, because some media, some politicians in the West telling people that China is just one party country. No, China is not a one party country. Chinese Communist Party is the leader, but there are also eight other parties that works together with CPC. They have their say in the policies as well,

Starting point is 00:14:39 and they will make their voice during the annual CPPCC meeting. So, and these deputies to MPC, they are the ones, the 3,000 deputies to MPC, they are the ones have the power to legislate, to appoint and remove officials, to make decisions on matters of national development and supervise. And some of you probably wondering, like can the 3,000 deputies really represent a country with a 1.4 billion population?

Starting point is 00:15:13 But the thing is, before March, before the National People's Congress, People's Congresses at village, township, county, city, provincial levels were already held in February to make sure all these advice, motions could be raised from bottom to up. So the National People's Congress you see in March is already the final one, before that already being held from bottom to up. And I think this year, across the whole country, this year there are 2.7 million people have served as deputies to

Starting point is 00:15:56 People's Congresses at all levels. And the interesting figure is, almost over 90% of them were at grassroot levels, meaning most of the deputies work at the villages, counties, township. And they are directly elected by villagers, by farmers, and they live among the grassroot people. So they know exactly what these people need, what their problems are. They will find out, they will do research, investigations, and gather their advice from the villagers and raise from bottom to up. So then came to, in March, the National People's Congress. But even at the National People's Congress, the three deputies, they also come from different backgrounds. Not all of them are Communist Party members.

Starting point is 00:16:51 Some of them are CPC members. But many of them are affiliated to other parties. Some of this affiliated to no parties. Some of them are just workers and peasants. For example, I think to this session, almost, I think I forgot the exact number, almost 3,000, but like 2,970 something. So among the almost 3,000 deputies, I think at least 442 of them are from the 55 ethnic minority groups in China. You know, there are 56 ethnic groups in China and the Han ethnic group is the majority which takes up 91% of the population. So the rest of like 9% population belong to the 55 ethnic minorities. But all the ethnic minorities

Starting point is 00:17:47 But all the ethnic minorities will have a representative at the national level. Even like Han is majority, it takes up like 90%. No, we have to have everyone from all the ethnic groups. So over 440 of them are from the 55 ethnic minority groups. And every ethnic group is represented at the national level. That accounts for I think 15%. groups and every ethnic group is represented at a national level that accounts for I think 15% and those who are from the peasant and workers background are almost 500 in total which account for 16.7% so and the rest of the deputies come from like science, business, military, arts, just

Starting point is 00:18:27 make sure every background can be represented at the national level. And they are the one who making decisions for the country. So I think that, did I explain clearly? Yeah, no, that's super helpful. I had a couple of questions in there. So let me see if I can just sort of summarize this to make sure I've got it. So you have the NPC and that other one that has a lot of P's and C's in it. CPPCC. Yeah. Yeah, CPPCC. So those two Congresses, they have beginning in March elections at the super

Starting point is 00:19:01 duper local level and then delegates are chosen at each level until you get to the three thousand something that show up at the National People's Congress. So then you have the the NPC interfacing at that Congress with the CPC, the Communist Party of China. And so how does that work? Like when I went to look this up, the first thing that came up was like an article by the AP that was like the NPC, which is really just a rubber stamp for the CPC, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So they were suggesting that the NPC actually doesn't have any power. And I wondering before we get into a little bit more

Starting point is 00:19:45 of what happened at the Congress and some of the policies and maybe a little bit more of the getting granular on how some of these other elements of China's political system works, could you talk to that and that sort of idea that's spread around here in the West that the NPC is just a rubber stamp for the CPC? CPC is the leading party, governing party of China,

Starting point is 00:20:07 of course. But like I mentioned earlier, the country's top legislature and highest order of state power is the NPC, National People's Congress. It doesn't matter which party you are from. It doesn't matter whether you have a party affiliation. If you are a deputy to

Starting point is 00:20:26 MPC, you are the one who has the power to vote, to select leaders, to change laws, to remove officials, to supervise. So MPC is the institutional guarantee for Chinese people to make decisions for themselves. This is the thing. And the CPPCC is a political adversary body. So the other parties, eight other parties, will give their advice. They will basically be consultants to CPC. Under the leadership of CPC, they will sit in at all these major meetings, either it's about changing laws, either it's about economic plans.

Starting point is 00:21:11 They will be sitting at these meetings. They will consult with the CPC. They can raise their voices, give their opinions, and give their opinions from different fields. Because those who are at CPPCC, many of them don't belong to any party. Some of them just work in the art industry, in the sports industry, in the science industry. And so they all have their say in this meeting. And CPC will gather all those opinions and advice from all these members and to decide what we can

Starting point is 00:21:47 do, whether we push this plan or whether we don't. Is this economic plan makes sense or does it doesn't make sense? So that's the consultation process. Deputies to the NPC also give their advice, like, you know, there are some issues in the village we need to deal with that. and all these members will see all this opinions from all the deputies to identify which is priority we need to deal with them now which makes sense and we need to adopt now and this is important but we can maybe we can do it later and some advice maybe from some deputies just don't make sense. Maybe we can put that aside for now. So it doesn't matter. So CPC works with all these other parties.

Starting point is 00:22:34 And if you are deputy to an NPC, it doesn't matter whether you are a CPC member or not. You have the power to appoint or remove officials to make decisions on matters of national development. And just remember some like fun facts. So I just mentioned the CPPCC with the political advisory body who can give opinions during this session. Some of the people who are members of the CPPCC, I think our Western audiences, our viewers in the US would know them. For example, Jackie Chan. Jackie Chan used to be a member of the CPPCC.

Starting point is 00:23:14 He served many years and gave advice about how to improve film industry. For example, give more theaters or opportunities for kids in villages. Another famous figure, Yao Ming, the NBA basketball player. He served as the member to CPPCC for several years. And during his term, he provided many advice about how to make training for young people more, how to say,

Starting point is 00:23:45 give more opportunities for the young kids in different regions of China to attract more young kids in the basketball area. So also there are many film stars, Chen Yan, Kung Fu star, and several famous figures were all members of CPPCC. They made their input on national development. So just to give an example. That's very cool. Sounds like that's the place to be.

Starting point is 00:24:17 This was a clip from our Patreon episode with Li Jingjing. You can listen to the full episode by becoming an Upstream Patreon subscriber. As a Patreon subscriber, you will have access to bi-weekly episodes ranging from conversations to readings and more. Signing up for Patreon is a great way to make Upstream a weekly show, and it will also give you access to our entire back catalogue of Patreon episodes, along with stickers and bumper stickers at certain subscription tiers. You'll also be helping keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at patreon.com forward slash upstream podcast.

Starting point is 00:24:59 Thank you.

Swords, Sorcery, and Socialism - [TEASER] China Pt. 4: Unlearning Anti-China Propaganda w/ Li Jingjing

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