Video Gamers Podcast - Behind Teeto: Developer Interview – Gaming Podcast

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Gaming hosts Josh and Ryan are joined by the amazing husband-and-wife dev team behind the upcoming indie game Teeto for a special interview! We dive into the inspiration, challenges, and passion that brought this exciting project to life, along with behind-the-scenes stories every fan will enjoy. Whether you love gaming, discovering creative video games, or hearing directly from the people making them, this episode is packed with fun conversation and insight. It’s a celebration of gaming, the indie scene, and the passion behind great video games you won’t want to miss. Join us for another unforgettable gaming episode of the Video Gamers Podcast!   https://www.eatpantgames.com/   Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Disratory, Ol’ Jake, Gaius, Jigglepuf, Phelps and NorwegianGreaser, Dettmarp and NightWizard63   Thanks to our Legendary Supporters: HypnoticPyro, PeopleWonder, Bobby S.   Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: ⁠patreon.com/videogamerspod⁠ Join our Gaming Community: https://discord.gg/h2cHKAvSmu Follow us on Instagram:⁠ https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/⁠  Follow us on X:⁠ https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod⁠  Subscribe to us on YouTube:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VideoGamersPod?sub_confirmation=1⁠    Visit us on the web:⁠https://videogamerspod.com/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers podcast. Every now and then, a game comes up that you just know is going to be a great time. Maybe it was a demo that stood out among others and has a certain vibe that tells you, you know the devs truly cared about their game and had a blast making it. Well, that game is Tito, and today we've got the awesome opportunity to talk to the husband and wife development team. behind a truly standout 3D platformer. But before we get to all things, Tito, some introductions are in order.

I am your host, Josh, and joining me, he's sworn his life to defeating the shadow corruption and saving every Michael he can. It's Ryan. DJ Michael is my favorite Michael ever now, and we're going to mix some sweet tapes, and it's going to be amazing. Yeah, there he is.

Yeah, the DJ Michael. If we're not watching video, check it out. DJ Michael's on the scene. He made an appearance already. Look at that. We did not plan this, by the way. The real question is going to be how many different Michaels do they actually have? That's the only one, so I'm glad you said that.

Yes. Well, and joining us, they are the husband and wife team behind the studio EatPant Games, the masterminds and creators of Tito. It's Mitch and Allie. Hello. Thank you so much for having us. How are you guys doing today? We're doing really well. We are finishing up the game, which after two and a half years is a huge sigh of relief, I think. And we're feeling good about it, feeling weird about it. Yeah. But still good. It's exciting and very nerve-wracking. and there's a billion emotions going on, but yeah.

I was going to say, is the nerves, like the, hey, we've put so much time and effort into developing this game that it's like, now it's so close to releasing that it's like, oh man, like are you questioning everything? Are you freaking out? Like, how are you guys feeling? Oh, yeah. I think there's definitely leading up to release. There are a day.

We flip-flop a lot where we're like, is this game even actually good or not? we don't know because we're so close to it. And then we play it for a bit. We're like, this game's good. And then we play it a bit more. We're like, I don't know, you know. So I think it's just one of those things we're like, we're just so close to it. It's just, it's so hard to know.

And that's why it's like, yeah, it's a little bit nervous for us, I think, putting it out there. It's kind of a vulnerable thing because we have put so much of ourselves into it that we don't know. Yeah, please like it, that thing, you know. So we, yeah, we don't. but it is exciting, I think, regardless, because we kind of do just want everyone to play it. And whether you like or don't, like, the fact that if you end up just checking it out, that means so much to us, you know? Yeah.

So, I can tell you guys right now, to put you at ease, it's a very, very good game. It's a good game. It's a good game. And we play a lot of games, you guys. And we are not shy about selling when we do not enjoy a game. It's, you know, it's not to hurt anybody's feelings. It's just we give honest opinions. And Tito is a really fun game.

Like we are really genuinely looking forward to getting our hands on this. We have people in our community that have been talking Tito for a while. Jiggle Puff. I think you guys know Jiggle Puff. He's the one that actually initially very first put Tito on our radar. And it was long ago. And I always thought it was interesting because, you know, it's one of those things where it just takes one person to tell another person.

and then like that person tells somebody and that like that ripple effect that happens is absolutely incredible because like way back in the day jiggle puff you know like sent us a link to Tito on Steam and said I think you guys are going to love this game you should check it out and we did and then we're like dude this game's great

you know what I mean like we didn't know about this and here we are talking to you guys on on the podcast about it so it is it is awesome but yeah I think you can you can you know breathe a little easy because you guys got a really good game on your hands here. Oh, that means so much. But yeah, Jukoff has been amazing. They've actually been helping bug testing do the last minute sort of like

you run through, so they've played through the whole game and all that stuff. Yeah, and just reaching out. If there's any bugs, hit them up. Yeah. But yeah, it's just been, I mean, that means a lot to us as well that, like, there are just like some just strangers out there, basically, who have just lacked. on to something that we're making and just yeah and then help and help make it better

yeah in like more ways than one other than bug testing just like that really early feedback like you know joining the discord and just reaching I'd be like hey like I played the demo I really like this but also have you thought about this and that is really what has shaped Tito in general has been like community feedback because I mean this is our first game so we really don't know what we do So there's been like a lot of Yeah, just molding this thing Over over a year is just based off like a lot of feedback

And just yeah, just constantly iterating and iterating And that's been so helpful I think And so for it's people like Jigglepuff, you know That have really helped shape this thing as well As much as we have That's an interesting question because you know Everybody like people love giving feedback They love giving criticism

and we get it with the podcast all the time. And honestly, it's like, you know, there's the, any feedback means somebody cares, right? Like, they care enough to give you feedback, to give you criticism. But, like,

how does, as a developer, like, how do you go, we hear you, but that's a terrible idea at the same time? You know what I mean? Because it's like, what you should do is, but it's like,

you want that feedback, but at the same time, you have to go like, hey, this doesn't fit the vision for what we're going for, or like, man, that's a dumb idea. You know, like, how do you incorporate, like, some of that, like, when you're developing a game? Because we always hear about this, right?

Like, developers always say, hey, we want feedback from people. We have closed betas, you know, technical tests, things like that. And then, you know, you get gamers of all types and tastes going, like, you need to make it more Dark Souls. This needs to be more like a roguelike game. Like, what if you made it, like, more edgy and stuff like that? So it's like, how do you take some of that and filter that into, like, like trying to make the game better? It's a tough thing in itself.

I think we, you always have to have your own sort of like vision, I think. So we've stayed pretty strong to that. I think we've lent on the fact that we, yeah, we have never made a game before. So there are obviously, there are flaws.

They're going to be sort of present that we can sort of iron out. Like, I mean, if someone's, if someone's submitting bugs and stuff, like that's kind of like fact, right? Like, that's broken or it's not.

working as it should. Like, it is, it needs to be changed. So that stuff's easier to, to, I guess, like, manage. But any of the things, especially if they're, yeah, bad ideas, I probably wouldn't tell them it's a bad idea to them, uh, directly. But I think we would generally take it on board. And I guess it would get, it would get further a sort of like prioritization if multiple people are telling you the same thing.

So it's kind of like a general consensus because we, there's just two of us. So we are so deep in this thing. It's very easy to become, yeah, like we're too close to it. We're so tunnel visioned that we can't really see bigger picture stuff sometimes until you take a step back or you can get fresh eyes on it. So I think regardless of whether we agree with the feedback or not, it's very handy to have so at least we can take in different perspectives and then we can basically figure out through like a number of different variables

whether or not we're actually going to action any of that stuff or not. And that could be because, like, we might not do it because it doesn't sync up well with something else that we're doing or it doesn't fit the vision or it's just simply out of scope, you know, like we'd want to be out of finish and release the game. Like, it would be sort of, it might be better. And we've had plenty of ideas, even from internally, we've had a lot of cool ideas to make it better, but it just simply just, it's unrealistic, I think, you know. So we've had to kind of figure out how to deal with that, shooting down our own. ideas as well, I think, is kind of a tough one that we're still kind of working with, you know. We've definitely, it's been a huge learning experience as well because we've definitely, me specifically as well, I've definitely been easily pulled in different directions where

I'd get some feedback. Someone's like, oh, it's bad because of this. And I'm like, oh, no, should I change it? And it's like, and it really takes us taking that back and having a conversation to be like, no, let's just not jump on everyone's feedback because ultimately there are going to be a lot of people out there that don't like it. Hopefully probably more people that like it than not, but you can't please everyone. Everyone's like, like you said, like someone's going to be like, it needs to be more challenging. It needs to be more souls like. It needs to be more of this.

But it's just simply not that. It's kind of just their preferences and you can't always, you know, yeah, you can't please everyone. Yeah. If you please everyone, you please no one. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, if we're asking for feedback, we are asking for feedback, you know, win, lose or draw, everything, everything gets considered. And that's what's great about having people, especially like vocal people about specific things, because if they feel they feel so strongly about an idea that they communicate it with you, then the least you can do is hear them out. Look at it. Take a peek. Um, I did want to ask too. Like, you know, with, you know, game development and what it's, what's become over the years, you know,

having that access to people that are playing your game and can give you, like, live feedback and, like, hey, we like this, we don't like that. Like, what has that done to your development as far as, you know, specifically how much you change of it? Like, you obviously, everybody's got their opinion. they all want to have it the way they want it and you know everybody's got an opinion but what what level degree do you guys do to what you change stuff to to differentiate from the vision like how far do you go from the vision to try to appease people or do you like just stick to this is what we have this is what we're going to do um well i think we when we started it we didn't have a super clear vision in mind where we were going to be like we've planned everything out

this is exactly what we're going to do when we're sticking to it. We started developing this as just kind of like, we had no intention of actually making a game. We sort of just was. That's the best game right there. I know, that's the best one. We were just, you know, because our previous work was kind of game adjacent stuff. We were to do a bit of like AR and VR.

So we kind of be like using game engines to make things, but not necessarily games. But we were kind of just like playing around and be like, oh, these game engines, they're pretty good for actually making games let's go try it out so we just kind of like got a character running around and let's add an enemy and we just sort of snowboard from there and so we put out

like a eventually we wanted decided we kind of like let's make a platformer because these are the games that we grew up with these are the games that we love these are basically the only games that we play let's yeah let's make this we whipped together like a level put it out put out a public demo super early

and it was kind of rubbish but it allowed us to, yeah, just to get that feedback, which is so needed, I think, whether or not we sort of, we have the same approach for any future games, like, I probably won't be the same because I'd like to think we know a little bit more now, but I think we can't discredit the feedback that we got and how infinitely better it made the game over time because, yeah, we didn't know what we didn't know, and it took us, it took people telling us a whole bunch of things for us to, realize like, oh, it didn't mean we have to action it, but just become aware of this is what people were thinking, I think is enough for then us to then trust our own instincts of whether we actually take that on or not. And more often than not, it was like, yeah, that is a good idea. I do actually agree with that. Because I don't think we ended up, like, we've changed anything that we didn't actually agree with in terms of the feedback. So we haven't, at this stage, we haven't felt like overwhelmed with having to change something because, yeah, just because

of other people wanting it, I think. It's always been us wanting it as well. It's been neat to see the evolution because like I said, I've played the demo three different times now and each time the demo was vastly different. You know what I mean? From even like the, like, you know, you started off in the office kind of the lab, you know, initially and then now you have the hub world and things like that. So it's been really cool to kind of see y'all's progression in the development of the game and how it's like, okay, we had this base idea, we executed on this, like, how do we expand that idea now? And to see where the game is at now versus where it was like a year or so ago is really cool, but at the same time, it's still the same

like underlying game. So it's like you guys have done a masterful job of preserving what you set out to make, but finding ways to like enhance it and upgrade it and things like that at the same time. So it's really been cool to kind of follow along with that. All right, we're going to switch gears just a little bit, guys, because we did get ahead of ourselves, and we have a couple get to know you questions. And you did say something, so I'm curious because you said, like, 3D Platformers are the only games you play. So one of the questions that we like to answer is if you had to name one, which you do, because we're asking, but what is your favorite game of all time? I know, that's a tough choice, because it's like, there's always like the top

three, right? It's like, I can't just pick one. Like, I mean, there's recency bias for me because, like, I've, but I have to like forego that and just go for a classic. I think it's Super Mario 64. I think that was like a definer. Yeah. Well, wait, what's your recency bias one? Oh, I mean, probably like a hand time, I think is more of like, it's not, it's not, it's not super new. It's a new word. Um, yeah. But also, I mean, I could, I could name heaps of ones like the Hayslight ones I really love, because games that we can play together, because it's another thing. It's like we kind of only really have time to play co-op games now, you know, so those, the Rayman Legends and all that stuff is, yeah. But anyway, Supermira is probably going to be my,

just, just that's what got me into gaming pretty much. Awesome. Allie, what about you? I was going to say a hat in time. Yeah. A hat in time. Oh, wow. Ace is so happy right now. He's going to be so happy right now. He's already putting gifts in the, in the chat and stuff. He's sending us gifts right now. You know what's funny? So I'm a huge fan of three. I grew up playing 3D platformers.

My wife and I played all through like Banjo Cazui together. Like we, you know, Nintendo 60, like Super Mario 64. You know, we love this genre. And we have talked a lot about, it feels like the genre was kind of like dying in a way. Because like, you know, apart from like, you know, you had the Super Mario Odyssey and, and, galaxy and things like that. But like, you know, back when I was younger, 3D platforms were everything and they were everywhere.

And then like, we haven't really gotten a lot of really good ones. Like Astrobot is probably like the best 3D platformer that we've seen in a decade, you know? And so it's like, it just seems like it's such a rare thing. And so we're big fans of like you guys helping bring these back to the forefront because it's like, you know, there's a certain nostalgia there that we absolutely love. Um, you know, we have heard that making a 3D platformer is one of the hardest challenges to, to do is that, you know, I mean, I don't feel that. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's hard for me to say because it's the only game we've made, but um, I think, um, that's the way to do it. Start, start hard. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think for us, it seems, um, achievable just because we'd played these games so much that we kind of knew the formula, so to speak. So it was kind of like, we're not,

necessarily like reinventing the wheel or anything with our game. We just wanted to like make it, you know, like do a platformer that we, you know, that had super tight controls and it was kind of just we could throw our humor on and stuff like that and add sort of like characters and all these type of things and really just have our take on the genre rather than where, yeah, like try to get into some, make it some sort of crazy like rogue like or whatever, you know, um, genre of game. We just don't know, don't know how we would tackle that, you know? So I think, yeah, I guess the hard bit could be is making it stand out because there are kind of like, or just if you just look at platforms in general, 2D ones as well, there's just like a lot of, a lot of platforms out there, not a lot of like really good ones, I think, you know. So there definitely has been a resurgence in the last few years and that's really inspired us, you know, games like, you know, Demon Tides, Bubsy, Mr. Sleeping Man, Paper Clay, all these other ones, like games that we've sort of followed along as we've been making this one, that they're, um, it's really cool to see, I think, you know, and they, they each have their own sort of unique spin on the classics, you know, they're all sort of inspired by the Super Mario's and the Spires and the Crash Bandicoos and stuff, but, um, they are each still distinctive rather than just a blanket, another 3D platform where you collect coins and stuff, you know?

Yeah. We talked to, uh, Devonsanti for Mr. Sleepy. man we had him on the show and it was really cool to kind of follow along with that and he was one of the ones that said i had no idea of what i was getting myself into yeah he's just a musician he's like i'm just going to make a game here we go you know one thing i think is so cool though is is um like like you said like all those old games crash bandicoot and stuff like to see the the footprint um of all those styles on the new stuff like it does give some sort of feeling to older gamers, you know, like us.

And it makes you drawn to that. Like you have some sort of draw to it and you remember what gaming was and what it could be. And I love the fact that you guys enter the humor into this game and stuff. Like I was playing your demo and

which, by the way, everybody listening, it runs beautifully on the Steam deck. I was playing it on my Steam deck. It ran fantastic. And I was sliding down the hill and I went off to the side and some bats yelled at me because I interrupted their conversation like and which is awesome so I love I love a platformer that also has humor kind of kind of into it as well so I think you guys did an awesome job as kind of melding

that in you know with just the general awesome tight gameplay as well oh thank you oh yeah thanks so much I mean that's kind of like I and you're talking earlier Josh about like how the the game has changed sort of over the years or the different iterations, but there's been that underlying thing that's still the same. And I think a lot of that is the charm and the feel and the humor, because, I mean, ultimately it kind of is us, you know, like we're still the same people making the game. Hopefully we've just gotten a bit better at the actual game design stuff

or the boat stuff, you know, we're just making it sort of tighter and more sort of focused, I think, hopefully. But ultimately it's still, yeah, We're still us just making the same dumb jokes, you know, I think. So that was kind of really important for us is just to be, yeah, like, unapologetic about how much dumb stuff that we put in there. Because, I mean, ultimately, we just, like, we're kind of appeasing. We're just like, just our own, whatever, whatever makes us laugh is good enough to go in there,

I think, you know? So, like, if other people find that funny too, then that's awesome. And that's amazing, complete creative. That's what we do. Yeah. I mean, legitimately, like, you know, you're creating something, right? You create the thing that you want to create because you have the passion to create it. And this is something we talk about all the time is when it, especially when it comes to game development, like, you know, we're gamers, right?

We're like, we don't know a lot about the ins and outs of development, but we know a lot about games and we can tell when a game is made with passion and somebody had fun making their game versus a game that was made to hopefully just make some money, right? And there is a vast difference. And it's like, you know, we don't begrudge anybody wanting to make some money off of their hard work. It's not about that. But it is that approach to how people, you know, like start their game development and continue with it and put humor into their games, right? Like, we say all the time, like, we see a funny trailer where the developers are not taking themselves too seriously. And it's like that is an instant. Like, I like these guys.

Because you can tell they're doing it for the right reason, right? Like, it's like, this is what we want to make. We're going to make it. We hope people enjoy it. but we're making it because we're passionate about it, you know, and we love to see that. I'm going to get personal with you guys for a second here, all right? Because, you know, I did introduce you as the husband and wife team, but you guys were not married when you started this game.

Is that right? Yeah, well, I mean, we're technically not married yet. So we still basically, we've put that on hold until after the game's done because we're just two. One major life thing at a time. Yeah, right. So probably really soon. But yeah, we've been together. It was something like over a decade before we started the game.

So for a long time. Tito better be your best man. I'll tell you that much right now. Right? Yeah. And the reason I ask is because, you know, I, I, you know, I'm active on social media. And I saw where you posted your proposal to Allie where that happened in game. Right? So what was, how did you do that? How did you pull that off?

So, I mean, I sort of had this idea for a while and I thought it would be, you know, and it was long overdue. But we basically, we'd been testing out these sort of co-op specific levels where you sort of got to work together and all that stuff. And she was, yeah, she was out one night doing some shopping and stuff. So I jumped in really quickly whipped together sort of like a, like a fake, level to get her to test basically and just accosted her as soon as she got home. But yeah, and then, because I mean, we always knew that we were, this was going to happen eventually, you know? So I think it, yeah, just tried to make something a bit special, I suppose.

But then, yeah, just recorded it and she was like, this is really cool. You should just post it online. So we did. And then lots of other people liked it as well. So we've got lots of cool messages from a bunch of strangers around the world. Yeah. Wishing us, you know.

Like the best. Yeah. Which is so lovely. Like how, I mean, a little bit of backstory is that Mitch does have a history of like making gifts. Like making like a comic book for I think it was one of my birthdays and like an animation for like my 21st birthday. And all of these like different like things. So it wasn't, it's not, it's completely on brand for him to do something like creative and like personal as a proposal. I had no idea.

I really had no idea. And he was being really weird like a couple of days before. Because he had to do this because we live together. We worked together. Yeah. And we were out when he was picking up the ring that he had, you know, got beautiful ring made and he had to go pick it up. But I can't go with him. But he's making all of these excuses.

he's like oh I'm just gonna go check out some t-shirts I'm gonna go check out some t-shirts and I was like okay like oh I'll come and I'll come and you're like no no no no and he kept mentioning this store and I knew that store had like closed and I was like well you're not gonna be able to go there and I was like oh he's being really really odd and then so eventually I just was like okay we'll do whatever and it was when I got home and Mitch was being really really strange. Like, real nervous, like, it costed me, like, as soon as I got in the door, and I had, like, I think I'd gone specifically to buy socks for our kid, is what I'd specifically gone.

So I've got this little bag, and I'm excited because I bought Kirby socks, and I wanted to show him. Nice. And be like, oh, she's going to love these Kirby socks because she loves Kirby. And he's like, oh, yeah, whatever, who cares? And I'm just like, oh, I'm just going to make some toast because I'm pretty hungry. He's like, can you just come check out this, like, co-op thing I've been working on? I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, in a second.

And he's like, no, please do it right now. I was like, do I have to do it right now? He's like, yeah, right now. And I go. And yeah, as soon as I heard, like, as soon as I went in and like heard the music, I was like, this is either like, something's either happening right now or this is a really cruel joke. And then I saw it and, yeah, not to tell everybody. But, yeah, he had a ring and dropped it.

And supposedly that's a good sign. because he was real nervous. But yeah, and said yes. Yeah. And it would be wild if she said no. Yeah, right? Completely different video. After all that work?

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, don't worry that. I just want to release the game. But, yeah, no, I thought that it was really, and it was really sweet. And I thought other developers specifically might like it. So I was like, oh, you should post it. And then, yeah, it went, like, lots and lots of people saw it.

And, yeah, just all the messages from, like, strangers from all around the world just like wishing us the best not knowing us at all it's just it's it's actually really a wholesome feeling it's how some of us found out yeah it was having a lot of our family down that's awesome it's it's tough man i tell you like i these ladies are are they're laser focused on everything we're doing because i was just trying to i was just trying to buy my my mother-in-law god bless her she called me and told me that uh the massage place by our house uh one of the big kind of circuit ones was having a deal and I was trying to just buy some some uh coupons for it because it was a deal and and then my watch's like where are you going what you doing where i'm like can't can't i

just like go somewhere and do something without like you interrogating me like come on i'm trying to do it for you no it would have been because the vibes were weird right it wasn't that you're just going to do something if mitch is just going to do something it's fine but the vibes were all off and he was being really weird we're not good at hiding men we're not I'm not good at hiding. So, yeah, as much as I do love surprises and things like that, like Mitch doesn't get very many surprises across me because I get too suspicious. I'm like, where are you going?

What are you doing? Why are you? That's my wife. Yeah. Well, and it's just because they're acting strange, but that, yeah, the proposal genuinely caught me completely off guard. That's awesome. Yeah, and it was, yeah, we, I don't know, not to be too soppy about it,

but really was, like, riding that high. And even now, like, being able to, like, see the video again and, like, relive some of that stuff. It really, it really was, like, a really special moment. That's awesome. You are well. Well done, Mitch, by the way. Good job, buddy. Good job, buddy.

Yeah. Well done to you. Yeah. Yeah. Not married yet, though. And then there's the, you know, like I said, the little hidden Easter egg in the game where you get to see the, like the bright. and groom stuff there is awesome. We had heaps of people

tell us to put it in the game. So, I mean, that's one of the things where we kind of like cave to the social pressure. But we thought it was a cool idea just to pop it in as a little Easter egg as well. And you can kind of, yeah, choose, you know, the bridal groom

outfit, which we thought was pretty cool. So, all right, so since you guys are working on this game together, do you guys ever disagree on anything? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of stuff.

Right. It's like, oh yeah, I know that feeling. It's a good creative process to not always be on the same page. Because I don't think you make anything good if you don't disagree. We have been getting better at disagreeing, but it's still a work in progress, I think. It's hard to tell someone who's worked, because we work, like, some things we work closely together on, and some things we kind of work independently on and then bring it together.

And those conversations are mostly like, oh, wow, that's so cool. But sometimes, you know, like I've had some pretty, some pretty big stinkers that I've brought to the table, Mitch as well. And you do have to, like, you have to carefully, like, approach that.

And then sometimes you're just too tired. Or it's like you've been really busy, like having lots of late nights, getting stuff finished off. that it doesn't come across for a gentle. Honey, that's a horrible idea. That's horrible. It's mostly like because like the other person will have like an idea

and they're obviously excited about it because they've thought about it. They've worked out and be like, this is great. And when you go tell the other person and they're like, no, it's not going to work because ABC. And they're like, oh, like it just immediately shut down and it's super depleting. So I think like it's not only do we have to like have we worked on like better approaching each other with her or sort of like discussing those points but kind of just growing a thicker skin in terms of just like well you know we both want what's best for the game and we're you know

we're not yeah and and and that does mean sort of just sitting down and like hammering out some of these ideas to really get on the same page which i think like we we have eventually done um like we're both happy with pretty much everything in there um but yeah it's it's definitely one of those things that takes a bit of work it's it's good to be challenged occasionally. Like honestly, and being able to work through that, like, I've been married for 25 years now. And that I kind of laugh because that like ability to gently say like, I think that's a terrible idea.

Yeah, honey. It's definitely learned over the years. But it's good because like I said, you know, you mentioned one thing. And I have seen this, especially online, especially in the indie world where, you know, you've mentioned this a few times, Mitch, where you kind of say you're almost too close to your game. Right. Like you're working on the technical aspects. You're working on the animations, you know, all these little details to where it becomes, you are so ingrained in the making of the game that sometimes you forget that it's a game, you know, and it needs to be fun. And it needs to be something that people want to play and things like that. And it's funny because I have seen this. I recently was giving a lot of feedback to some indie devs. I said, hey, show me your trailers. Like, let's give you some feedback on trailers and things like that. And I had some amazing conversations from that. people but one of those was I'm too close to the game I didn't even realize you know and that was a lot of things that I heard from developers where it's like I I'm so focused on these little

details in these little parts that you know it's hard to take a step back sometimes and it was just interesting to hear you guys say that too to where it's like this is absolutely a challenge to go is our game fun do people want to play this yeah I mean it just goes to show that like really shines a light on how important play testing is and things like that is like getting that out there, getting other opinions but also kind of making

sure you establish like a good work-life balance type thing where you are because I mean obviously game dev is one of those things where you can fall into crunching all the time because there's making games there's usually a lot to do and so you'll be working these long long

long days and that's how you get really close to it and you just have to kind of just take a break, take a day or two off, go for a walk, see the sky, you know, go touch. Basically, does grass, baby, touch grass. You know, because it really does, you do need that refresher, so you can come back to it with, you know, just a clear head, you know, fresh eyes. I think it's really important because, yeah, you get really stuck into the details and it can be, you know, to the detriment of the game, basically.

unfortunately sometimes that crunch stuff is necessary but yeah just trying to for your own mental health as well just try to take a step away every now and then I think is important well I like what you said too about you know you'll always have ideas about hey we can add this we can add that it would be cool if the game had this feature or this level or this thing but it's like at some point you have to go like the game is good like the game is good and we could work on this forever if we wanted to But we've kind of reached the vision of what we had for this. It is a complete game. We think it's ready for the world.

And, you know, I know that's got to be a little terrifying and a little hard sometimes because it's like, you know, you're always going to have these good ideas. And, you know, that's what DLCs and expansions and sequels are for, though, right? Yeah. Or other games. There are lots of ideas that we have had to sort of park for now. But, like, they're not forever. I think that helps in the creative process, especially when we've come up with, like,

ideas that we love that we can't use yet. We say that like, oh, you know, that's amazing. Let's workshop that, but we park it and then we can come back to it. So it's not that it can't be done. It's it can't be done right now. And that helps, especially if you're really sold on a particular idea because you've like thought about it a lot. You know that other people would really like it.

And if you come back to the idea sort of six months later or a year later and it's still really good, then that's how you know that it's not just like a fleeting sort of excitement, you know, it is, there's probably something there. Right. All right. I have one more question about development and then I want to switch gears back to Tito because I have a couple

more questions about the game itself for you guys. This is honestly for our knowledge because this is something we know nothing about and so I'm hoping you guys can shed some light on this because it's something we talk about a lot on the show. Publishers. You know, we knew you guys. We had been chatting before you guys.

got a publisher for the game. I remember seeing you making a post that you were, I don't remember the name of the show or the conference that you guys were going to, but you had made a post saying, hey, we're going to show off Tito to some people and, and something like that. Potentially.

Maybe it was GDC. Yeah, it was one of those big, I remember thinking like this is a big opportunity for you guys. Like, how important is getting a publisher as an indie developer? Like, you know, we talk about this all the time with it's like, you know, hey, you have to try to balance the having creative control of your game, but it's, it's, you're really going to have a really,

really hard time if you can't get a publisher to help you with, with a lot of this stuff. So how is that process? I mean, you know, like what's it like? How do you get the attention? Like just kind of take us through that whole thing. Like, how important is it, you know? And is it difficult? Is it just, hey, here's our game.

And they're like, this looks awesome. We're in kind of thing. Well, I mean, like in terms of whether you need a publisher or not, I think it, it, It's different for every game. Some people absolutely kill it without one and they don't need one. Some people really do need one. I think for us, we thought the value in a publisher was really important because it was our first game. And we needed sort of like we hadn't traveled these roads before.

We needed a lot of help in terms of like how do we get it out there? How do we get it onto Nintendo and PlayStation? Which is awesome that it's going to be on the switch. Yeah, yeah. We heard that news and we were really excited for you guys. Yeah, once we saw it on the Nintendo store, it almost cried. Yeah.

But all these things that they've really helpful. In terms of like, we also got obviously a bit of funding to help us actually, you know, afford to make it. And all these things have just been really important for us, especially for our first game. So they've been super valuable for us. But we were very lucky to have like a, there's a government body here called Code,

which is basically helps fund teams making games and helps give them resources to go out and find publishers or further funding or, you know, a whole bunch of different things to really sort of set them up in their game dev journey. So we've been really lucky to be involved with them. And so we've got like a couple of grants from them to be able to work on the game.

and they basically were able to send us to the States last year to go to GDC where we got to meet up with a whole bunch of different publishers, which is crazy for us because we was so new to the world and you get crazy imposter syndrome because we're like, what are we doing here? What are we doing in America pitching our game to, you know, all of these publishers? This is crazy.

We got to go to Australia to Pax Oz to be able to show off the game. we went to China, went to just recently we were in Japan for BitS Summit showing to you. That's amazing. You guys got to travel the world. Basically. Basically. Yeah. And this imposter syndrome is garbage because this is a good game. So like I don't know what you guys are talking about.

But it's like it's it's been so cool how obviously like we've worked really hard for these opportunities but we've been so, so lucky as well. So I think knowing that. Lots of people helping us along the way with advice and telling us what to look for. And the game development community is interesting in the way that other game developers

just love to tell you what they, missteps they made and be like, don't do this. Do this instead. It's very open and I really enjoy that because this is brand new for us. It's so supportive, but also allows those kind of opportunities to play out positively.

Like we went to GDC looking for a publisher, but we're also looking for a publisher for the right fit and, you know, having some advice from other game developers about what to look for and how you know

when it's a right fit, like a good opportunity might look like the best opportunity but not necessarily the case, like really think about it, but actually talking to publishers or like at least scouts in person really gives you an idea

of what you're actually getting into before you even see any contract, before you even see any terms, knowing it's a right fit. And yeah, that was like an important part that we weren't really thinking about. We're like, oh, we'll get a publisher. But what, you know, we were like, oh, looking in these specific genres. But it's not just about that.

It's about like, is the publisher actually like, do they like your game? You know, do they see something outside of just the numbers? Because for them, I mean, it is a publisher-developer relationship is a business one. So they want to, you know, make money. Of course. And it's, yeah, it's just, it's an, it's an interesting relationship to, to figure out. But I think my, my, my, our experience was that we had to meet some of these people in person. Like, you can have all the video, video chats you want.

You can, you know, talk to people. And we had, um, we had already spoken to George from Super Rare before we went to GDC. And, um, the meeting in person kind of solidified that, like, it was good. Just kind of know. Like, these are people. Yeah, it's basically just like a vibe check and like he passed it straight away. It was so casual. Especially, um, we had our entire meeting just on bean bags, um, just sunk into the floor.

And we just spent the whole time talking about flight of the concords, basically, which is, Oh, Ryan was just, oh my gosh. I was just telling him about that show. Josh hasn't seen it. Yeah. Oh, you've got to check it out. You have to check it out. No, I have to.

Brett, Germaine? This is two flight of the concords in the same way. I mean, if you want to sort of like learn New Zealand humor like that, like that, That's the goal manager, right? Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, because George was a big fan of that. So obviously, like, they got our humor. He, like, loves platformers.

So working with Super Rare and that whole thing, basically from that point, it did become quite easy. Obviously, you'd go through the contract stuff and you figure out all the stuff that happened there, but that was so helpful. They were, yeah, it's just, it's never been a struggle with them, I think. So they've made the whole process a lot easy.

yet they've taken a lot off our plate and they're just actually just like really lovely people. And creatively as well they're just kind of like, like the suggestions here and there to like make things better. But for better or for worse, we still have like complete creative control.

Yeah. So yeah. So we haven't had anything where they're like, oh, you should change that or we, you should really do this, you should do that. But yeah, we've had helpful suggestions as they're playing through the game. Be like, oh, maybe think about this.

but they never forced anything on us. And we're always super open to any of the suggestions and stuff anyway. But, yeah, it's been nothing but positive, which is really good. Which potentially might be unusual. If you speak to other developers, that might not be necessarily the case. But I think, yeah, like really, like finding the right fit for not just you as developers, but the game that you're making. And how that sort of fits in with the wider sort of catalog.

of the publisher that you want to sort of make a deal with. And then, and if all the boxes all get checked and then, you know, all the contract stuff, all it all feels fair and legitimate, then, yeah, it's, we've had a positive experience. I know that's not the case for lots of other developers. So we, we don't know what that's like. I mean, you hear stories all the time, like whether, you know, publishers are bad or publishers are great, I mean, everyone's got, there's, you know,

so many different scenarios of anything, really. But like for us, it's been, yeah, it's been really good. I mean, we'll see. That's so cool. We'll see because we'll see what happens when the game comes out. But like, up until this point, it's been really good. That's great. All right, let's shift gears because we don't want to take up too much your time,

but we have a few more questions about Tito. Okay, so in the game itself, like I said, Ryan and I have played the demo multiple times now. We can't wait to get our hands on the full game here. But this is a question for each of you. What is your favorite? favorite part of the game? The Michael, I think. Wow, Michaels.

Yeah. And that, like, I think I love it so much because that's not, it wasn't my idea, you know, so like, it was a complete alley thing. I saw the eyebrow raised there where she's like, yeah, that was. Yeah, yeah. That's a, oh. Me, little old me? But, yeah, I think, and that seemed to resonate with a lot of other people, too.

Like, and it's just been so fun to make, I think. And, you know, come up with those, like, silly ideas, dress them up, hide them out in the wild type thing. So I think that's been, as a developer, I think that's been the funnest thing to make, but also playing them feels like really satisfying, you know, like finding one and then seeing what it is and stuff like that, you know, and collecting them. That's been really fun. Yeah. What about you, Alie? My favorite is actually the music. I think, especially like, is that, is that Mitch's job? Is that me and my brother? Yeah, Mitch and his brother.

Nice, nice, nice. So, like the boss battle music, like specifically. Oh, yeah. I actually remember that. Yeah. Like, we had, like, we had a vision for what we wanted, and we had lots of, like, workshoping of different ideas for, like, the vibe of the boss battle music. And then between Luke and Mitch, they just absolutely killed it.

Perfect execution. Really enjoyed it. Like, when I'm playing it, like, I just still like, yeah. I love this music. This music is so good. That's a favorite of mine. I think it, we had a vision for it,

and then, like, it turned out exactly, exactly as I... We won, like, a New Zealand Game Awards award for it. For audio. For the audio,

which is... Yeah. And whether that's just music or that's all the super talented voice artists that we were lucky to bring on. Like, it's crazy. Yeah.

You know? I was going to say, this is actually one of my favorite parts because it really showcases like the personality, but I was watching your clip of, I think is it remarkable worms that you posted? Is that the right term? It was the worst.

I don't know if I think it was your kid, but or cousins or something? It was sensible worms. Sensible worms. And this was, this was basically nephews that, that we, they really wanted to be in the game. We put our daughter in the game for,

she was the little talking berry but she's also when she was a baby we recorded her bunch of voice lines and she's the voice for the Michaels um so cousins her cousins got a little bit jealous and they wanted to be in the game too and where you know we want to put them in as well they they watched us make the game as well like so they were like really invested in it even as children which i think is kind of cool so we basically were like okay well what do you want what do you want to what do you want to be you can come up with your own characters your own sort of voice lines. And I think it was, they were, I think you were getting ready to take them to the park. They were staying with us for like a week. And they were just crawling around the house like worms

being really loud. And Al was like, you know, if you want to go to the park, you have to be sensible. And then, yeah, it was like, is that sensible? I don't even know why. I was like, sensible behavior from you. And then they, uh, then the eldest boy was basically like, sensible worms, sensible. And they all just started chanting it. And they're just like going around the house. that their arms folded higher than the sun just talking about like how they're sensible worms and that's yeah and we did and we did the recording for their characters

like that day so of course they wanted to be in character as sensible worms and I just thought it was like and then they just started talking about how they're like eating people and they're like I love it I was completely enthralled guys I'm watching this whole thing and I see you know you can see Tito like going around

and talking to each of them it's like they've got different voice lines and I was just like this is what I like honestly this is what I love about your game is you you like you're including your family you're including these kids that are like everything is just we're trying to have fun you know what I mean like we want to have a good time making this and that translates to the gamer who's going to be playing it that is going to see and feel and we've seen it already where it's like this is just a game that makes you feel good you can tell the developers truly cared you know you can

tell that they had a good time making it and that comes across very, very well. And so for me, one of my favorite things is just that my daughter loves the word whimsy. So I'm going to call it whimsy because she's like, everybody needs some whimsy in their life, right? That's like one of her favorites. And that's like, and that is Tito to me. And it's like, it's from the sensible worms. It's from the other characters you meet. You know, all that stuff just kind of ties together. And I freaking love it, man. It's, it's that difference between going to just a chain restaurant and going to some kind of mom and pop shop that really takes care of you. You can feel, you can feel the heart in the food and like you can feel the heart in this game, which we both with what we played

with the demos and stuff. Like we genuinely like you can feel it in my son and my, my kids have played this as well and they love it. And so we can't wait for for this to drop. We're very, very excited. And from the first iteration that I played to the, the, most recent demo it's night and day it is so crisp and clean like if if anyone listening hasn't played it you need to check it out like try out the demo and then please buy the game because it's it's amazing um and uh yeah you you got you gotta take a peek oh that's so nice thank you yeah yeah so all right listen guys we we don't want to take up too much of your time we're gonna we're gonna wrap this up but i do have one final question for you guys okay if you make a

Will you name it T2? Oh, we have to, yeah, we have to. Okay, yes. And a third would be threeto. Yeah, three-toe? See, there we go, I like it. This is awesome. Yeah, of course.

And one of the characters has to be three-to-derito. Okay. Done. Done. Yeah, okay. Yeah, agreed. Yeah.

Boom, done. I've got my influence on the game. All right, we're good to go. All right. Well, listen, everybody. we're going to be doing some giveaways on our Discord server for Tito. People that have been listening to our podcast know we are very honest when it comes to our opinion on games.

We are telling people there is absolutely something special about Tito. We're going to be shouting it to the world. We're going to be doing some game giveaways here because we really want people to experience this game. This is something that we champion all the time on this podcast is reward the developers that make games with fun and passion because they just absolutely love making video games for us to enjoy. You know, we've seen some big pushback from the industry and the AAA industry and what

they're going through and stuff like that. And so one of our mantras is reward indie devs for the hard work and for making these incredible games. And so this is our call and our shout out to all the listeners out there. Wishlist, Tito. It's coming out July 15th. If you want to try to win a free copy, you know, you know where to do that. That's going to be on our Discord server.

But, you know, this is a game that we are absolutely. just really, really wanting to get behind and get the world to experience it because you guys deserve it. Tito deserves it as a video game. Gammers will absolutely love this. And so this is one reason we wanted to have you guys on the show is to meet you and kind of talk to you because we love what we're seeing with this. So thank you guys for wishlisted. It does more than you know, wish list it really does. You know what? How important is wish listing guys? Oh, I mean, it helps us tremendously, not only just for validation. but I think, I don't know, I assume it gets thrown into the crazy algorithms and it gets shown to more people. I mean, I don't know how it works, but either way, it's just validation for us. It's just more reasons to keep going, right?

And we can see the number of people who seem to like what we're making, which is just crazy. Yeah. Awesome. And Tito is going to be out on, let me make sure I'm right on this, but PC, Nintendo Switch, and Nintendo Switch, which is awesome. And then PlayStation 5, is that correct? Yeah. I got it right. Love it.

Love it. Awesome. Well, listen, everybody. Tito comes out July 15th. Wish list it. Check this game out. You all out there, trust us. You know our opinions on these things.

And we're telling you there's something special. There's something magical here with Tito. And so let's give them our support on this one. Mitch and Allie, thank you guys so much for joining us. I mean, this is such a blast. We've been talking online a lot, but it is such an awesome pleasure to get to finally sit down and chat with you guys. Thank you so much for having us.

It's great. Yeah, pleasure. Yeah, lovely to chat. Thank you so much. Yeah. All right, we'll definitely be chatting more once we get closer to release, and we're going to be checking in with you guys to see how things are going, too. That is going to do it for this episode, everybody.

We're going to leave a link to Tito in the episode description, so if for some reason you have never heard of this game or seen this game, we're going to leave a link so you can check out the trailers and the Steam page for that to make your life easy because we know how gamers are. and we don't like trying to find things. We're going to make life easy for you there. That's going to do it for this episode, everybody. Until next time, happy gaming.

Oh, I found DJ Michael. See ya.