Video Gamers Podcast - From The Witcher to the Wild - w/composer Josh Plotner - Gaming Podcast

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Gaming host John sits down with the incredible Josh Plotner, a world-class multi-instrumentalist and composer known for his work on major titles like The Witcher concert series, and video games like Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 and Red Dead Redemption 2. Join us for a gaming-packed episode as we explore how Josh brings soundscapes to life with dozens of rare and unusual instruments, how scoring for video games compares to film and TV, and what makes gaming music so emotionally powerful. We dig into Josh’s creative process, his favorite games, bands, and what his dream project would be. If you've ever been curious about the sonic side of gaming, this is one episode you won’t want to miss. FOLLOW Josh Plotner: Website - https://www.joshplotnermusic.com/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/joshplotner Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Disratory, Ol’ Jake, Gaius, and Phelps Thanks to our Legendary Supporters: HypnoticPyro, Patrick and PeopleWonder Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Community: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/  Follow us on X: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod  Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VideoGamersPod?sub_confirmation=1    Visit us on the web:https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Groceries that over-deliver. Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Soundscapes and music have the unique power to set the tone, the mood, and the expectations for gaming expectations we all know and love. Audio has the ability to navigate us through the spectrum of human emotion and beyond. I am your host John, and today's guest is a musical Swiss Army Knife who's brought stunning scores to life across games, TVs concerts including the global Witcher concert series and games like Claire obscure Expedition 33 he's a composer multi instrumentalist and sonic

storyteller please welcome Josh Plotner Josh how are you I'm good are you good to be here I'm really good I I love that our background colors match. Yes Instant frenzies. Yeah, I have to ask so like in the in the preamble for this episode You had two professional quality microphones just readily available and boomed up for you. I see a keyboard in the background. How many? Instruments do you have within arms reach you right now? in the background. How many instruments do you have within arms reach right now? Within arms reach, not as many as I have within like two arms reach, but within arms reach, I've got one, two, three,

four, four, four. OK, four, technically, unless, you know, some people count like laptop is an instrument I think Berkeley College of Music allows you to major in laptop these days. So maybe five Yeah, and there's like all like the acapella type stuff too you can do like beatboxing Well, I don't count my my like I count the voice as an instrument, but I don't count my voice as an instrument At least at least for now. Maybe one day, who knows. But yeah, I think within like two or three arms reach, it grows to like 160 instruments. Whoa, bro. Do you just live in a warehouse full of instruments at this point?

I mean, almost. Actually, I recently, because I was was trying to figure it because it's like a bunch of like, like it's a lot of flutes and like saxophones and like, but like by number, the majority of things is flute. And if you think about like, like traditional flutes don't like break down. So they're all so I have like a ton of like long sticks. And actually, I was you said a warehouse, I was trying to think of like the best way to store them. And I like came to the conclusion that I would like build my own custom. Like, you know, those wine rack inserts that kind of look like a hashtag, like checkerboard kind of thing.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I built a big custom one that like fit perfectly into a bookcase. And now I feel like it's a little bit like Ollivander's from Harry Potter, where it's just like all the wands on the war. And I just like pick one out and I'm like Hmm from Japan and 90 years old this will like No core because it's a flute and they have to be hollow That's got to be an interesting conversation starter at the very least. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Yeah Yeah, so you were mentioning before the show that you recently relocated to the wonderful, clean, quiet city of Los Angeles, California. I came, well before you ask your question, I came from New York, so I hear the sarcasm in your voice, but when you say wonderful, clean, quiet, I'm like, yeah, and? Sorry, that's funny. I've spent time and I grew up in Like the the valley basically north of LA But I spent a lot of time in LA and I've spent some time in New York and I gotta say as as dense and old

As New York is it still feels less chaotic than LA is how's that move been for you? Uh, I I mean I have an experience. I'm in North Hollywood is it still feels less chaotic than LA is. How's that move been for you? I mean, I have an experience. I'm in North Hollywood. I really know nothing. Like people keep telling me very normal neighborhoods in LA and I keep being like, what is Pasadena? I'm slowly figuring it out.

But I mean, yeah, the move has been pretty smooth, I'd say overall. I figured out how to Somehow safely move all these instruments across the country Which was stressful But I can't even imagine. Yeah, it happened though So did what was your casualty rate of instruments to know anything nothing? I think I think I got away like I had a lamp that broke

and a TV that broke, but I like projector life better than TV life anyways. Yeah, that was no instruments. I was very like crazy about my instruments though. So that is astounding to me. Well, you mean as far as protecting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like my trick that I feel like I don't hear much, a lot of people talk about bubble wrap

inside of the case, bubble wrap outside of the case, of course, but like I didn't trust like the case, because there's like a tiny bit of movement and that over 10,000 miles or whatever adds up like that vibration. Bubble wrap in the case. Like I feel like that's my new go-to of just like totally Immobilizing things with like a little bit of pressure even that's really smart. Yeah. Yeah, so For anybody who is not familiar with Josh's Online presence I have to direct you to his YouTube. It is one of the most interesting music and audio

facing YouTube channels that I've experienced in a long time. He's got this great series where you're basically like turning everything you can find into an instrument. Like you made mayonnaise into an instrument. And that is just such a fascinating Fascinating thing. I mean a lot of that's played for laughs I'm assuming but you have also featured instruments that I've literally never seen before where where does this where does this come from?

Where does this passion come from? Yeah, well, um Where does it come from? I got into world flutes Um, where does it come from? I got into world flutes. Um, like, you know, flutes that aren't from like the standard like orchestra tradition and stuff because, uh, long story short, I really wanted to play on Broadway. And when I moved to New York, uh, and I was like, basically like when, you know, it was like one Broadway gig, please, I think I'm ready. I think I sound good. And that's, I mean, I think I was ready and I think I did sound good That's not how it works at all. It's Entirely who you know, um, like the Broadway music world. There's no auditions. It's just like it's it's it's nepotism

kind of but so I Was like my thought instead of kind of being defeated and being like I'll slowly work my way up and like meet people and spend years crafting relationships, which I did do. But in the short term, being impatient, I was like, well, what's the hardest book on Broadway to sub for? Because like subbing is how you like, you know, the normal player, like you sub for them. And then like you get in that way is like, right. And then you poison them so that they have to use you Um, uh, but uh secret we'll bleep that part out. Yeah. Okay good good. Um But no you uh, yeah, so you said and I was like, well, what's the hard like certainly something's like so hard that that guy

Need subs because everyone else like like they just have too many subs it's not that they didn't like me it's just like why would they pick some random like 23 year old over all the thousand other people who want to do it right so i was like what's the hardest one where like this guy can't find anyone who can do it and i came to the conclusion that it was lion king because on lion king there's a flute book that has 13 different flutes that you play on it and i was like that guy probably needs help and uh he like i mean he obviously on it. And I was like, that guy probably needs help. And he like, I mean, he obviously had it covered, but I was able to like worm my way in and like kind of convince him,

cause he like, you know, most people have like, like there's a maximum five subs you're allowed, and most people have like 10 people anyways. And this guy had like four. And I was like, okay, I can do that. So yeah. He had four just due to the complexity of the yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's really hard to find because it's also it's like very like

legitimate classical flute, like hard, like concert, you know, orchestra level flute things. And then very and then very traditional sounding like the African moments of the show. And like these flute parts are just like hard to play. Like for someone who's classically trained, that's a very like brittle kind of music making. It's beautiful, but it's like you learn such a narrow way to play the instrument perfectly and beautifully. And the way that these other flutes are played is a very like flexible, even like jazzy ornamented way like or maybe not jazzy is the wrong word but a folk folky way sure um and uh to find someone who can like speak both

languages is tricky um the like the classical and the folky thing together you know switching back and forth and these switches like there's a couple that i think are like literally like two seconds you're on one flute and then you're on the next flute and like literally two seconds and you just like throw them down and pick them up. Just hot swapping them all back and forth. Wow, that is really interesting. So I have to, I mean, we're speaking, we're a gaming podcast and we're speaking because you've performed on some of the most legendary soundscapes that exist in gaming.

But I am really curious, what about Broadway was it that drew you to New York? Like what was it about that specific format that was interesting to you? You know what drew me to New York? Is that I didn't wanna have a car as a 23 year old. That'll do it. I had like spent so much time getting up early

and moving my car. I'm from Chicago originally. And just like the trauma and trauma please but like I'm like I'm just like moving my car like first world trauma of like Getting up at 5 a.m. To move the car cuz I got back at like midnight and there's no parking for like four blocks So I had to walk four blocks on both ends of it Like I said, I don't want to and cars are expensive and I'm right out of college I don't have money so that was the rationale for New York and then Broadway is the best gig in New York like and just like like it's like

it's a six-figure salary like starting wow yeah well I think it's an instrumentalist I think as an instrument I think it's actually like just I think it's like 97 or something No, they just got a raise but like maybe it is like six now when you say they just got a raise I'm assuming it's a union. It's union. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like it's very stable and you can also sub out 50% of the shows So you obviously don't get six figure you get like 50k or whatever If you sub out 50% of your shows but you could theoretically do half work half the year and do anything else for the other half of the year and come back to a job that you still have because the union job which

is pretty cool yeah union security for any sort of creative role I imagine is just like the you know the gold nugget that everybody's fishing for I imagine it's incredibly competitive And exactly and I found that out the hard way going and then the and then it got me into this world But anyways to this is a long way around of answering your original question Which is like how I got into all this is that like learning those 13 or well to the flutes are flute and piccolo I know to play those so learning those 11 flutes for Lion King kind of Got me really into this world and got me curious. And I was already kind of curious about this stuff but then it kind of unlocked that permission for me to be like, I could learn a

Japanese flute. I'm not Japanese but I could learn it. If I study a bunch, like, you know, like I could learn a Japanese flute. And so um, and so now I've just been studying at time. And like, actually after that, at one point I decided I was doing a self-led master's program where I just took, uh, lessons with people from around the world on traditional music and instruments. And I don't have like a piece of paper that's in masters, but it's was a tenth of the price of a masters to take a bunch of private lessons with people that I respected and wanted to learn from And the kind of learning you'd want to do anyway kind of learning you want to do and no one in music cares about

Degrees unless you're in education, so it worked out great Yeah, very cool. So, you know, you mentioned nepotism. Entertainment is that's the name of the game. You know, there's there's I don't know if you're familiar with a band called the Animals as Leaders, but there's a really, really amazing guitar player by the name of Tosin Obasi, who is like one of the world's great talents on guitar. And most people have never heard of the guy. His talent is somewhat meaningless because he's not,

I don't wanna say not playing the game, I'm sure he's playing the game, but there is just some elements of fame that is like luck. It's luck and who you know and that's a very hard barrier to break. So you mentioned you get to Broadway and extremely competitive and at some point you begin to not only diversify the musical instruments you're playing but also the types of jobs that you're taking. I was

wondering if you could tell me how you, you know, sort of got into game scoring and playing instruments for game scores. Yeah, well, I was always, I mean, I did a double major in school, like jazz composition and performance. So I was always interested in the composition side of thing. And I always got like, I always really weirdly enjoyed not just composition but orchestration and copy work which is when you make the parts

like look really good in that like, like just like cleaning things up and making things like as clear as possible. It's almost like a psychology game of like how can I display this information in the cleanest easiest way to understand. Oh interesting. And so like I've kind of not only like in my Woodwind Jack of all trades with all these instruments I played but like I really like have taken like the orchestration and the composition and recently the production thing quite seriously and I found only advantages in doing that because it's not like I feel like there's a perception that some people have that's like the more things you do like the more of those skills like fade but it's

quite the opposite like if you do like if you do more things as an excuse to cover up for lack of skill like that that's one thing like, oh, I do everything because I can't do anything that good. So, you know, or like I just I try to do everything as well as I can. And I just like I'm a perfectionist and also a what's called when you don't believe you're good at things. Oh, like imposter. Yeah, it's like a combination of like perfectionism and imposter syndrome and like all these things I do. But so composition, production and learning all these things allows me to speak better with the rest of the musical team.

And so then I've like been able to get more and more creative roles where I just can speak everyone in the room's language and kind of do professional code switching almost. For a while I was saying I was making money because I was one of the only people who knew how to play oboe and what phantom power is. And for audio people, that's like basically the thing that lets your microphones turn on all the way. That's an oversimplification. Good enough for me. Good enough for the Duff Network. Yeah, but like that kind of thing, because it's just like oboe players never learned about microphones. But if you do, then you can record oboe like for people and then there's no competition because no oboe players know how to record like or very few. So yeah, I just keep finding that the more I learn, the more I know and the more things I do. So I've gotten into like different areas of production and orchestration and I'm just able to be the resource.

How does that look though? How does that like, how do you break that barrier where you're like, wow, Broadway is really tough and I want to continue to pursue this. And I, you know, I have a very unique skill set that allows me an advantage over other people who might be competing for the same spot. But at the same time, I to supplement my my life and my interests So here's this gaming thing. Like how do you start soliciting that work? Internet

Truly though that's our show everybody But like yeah just for You know, there's the people that know you in person and they, you know, unintentionally like put you in the box that they know you for, but then online you can post about whatever you want. And so I met a lot of people through like various like remote recording websites and got connected to people and kind of got known as someone who can send you back a professional

sax track in less than 24 hours. And then just having, I mean also being a gamer, I feel like every month or so I get to like call my mom and be like, hey remember when you told me I was wasting time playing all those games? Well now not only am I like able to like know and talk about these games, but I'm able to, uh, to like, like I've played video games with video game composers. And when I'm good at them and like, it's like a little more respect, like if, you know, like the kind of person you play a video game with and you've got like, you're playing Mario Kart and there's like, you've got like first, second, fourth and 12th place. Yeah, sure. Kart and there's like you've got like first second fourth and twelfth place yeah sure and like

it's just like like it's like it's nice when you're like when you're like competing for first and second where the guy who can hire you it's it's more of a vibe like yeah for sure and in the video game world I don't know why I use Mario Kart I'm always playing smash anyways, uh, but uh We could have a whole second episode on Nintendo stuff, by the way I've got listen, I've got like a dozen characters in Elite Smash like, you know, it's great. I have a problem No, it's an opportunity I dig the commitment your your first of all I I wanna point out what this all comes across as

is that you got into video games so you could make your mom feel bad about what she was telling you. Yeah, correct, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, so mission accomplished there, is number one. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Ha ha ha ha.

But number two, you were mentioning that there is sort of this feeling that if you diversify your skill set that you are diluting it as well But I think that what you've done Has I mean I think there can be a case for that Like you said if you're learning new skill sets to cover up, you know inadequacies and sums but but you are you're developing Synergetic or complementary exactly. Yeah, And that sort of takes you to this unique point in your life

where you had spent some time in New York and now you've recently moved to Los Angeles and presumably because that's kind of where the broader music industry exists and the broader entertainment industry exists. And now you are switching, I don't wanna say switching gears, but you are placing a larger focus

on the composition side of the music part of gaming and media. And I'm curious to hear about your journey there so far. So, you know, needless to say, you've studied this and that has piqued some of your interests. But what is this going to look like for you? Like, how does somebody in music composition start their relationship with a game, for instance? Yeah.

So I feel like I should say, like, the way that I kind of have properly gotten into this role is I was kind of already being asked to do it by certain composers I work with know, like I'm like intimidated and or respectful of just like, there's no books about this, at least no books in English about how to write for this instrument. And like, can you just do your thing? And then, so like already I kind of start writing my own part and then sometimes it's been like, oh, you know what, I'll do this, but also could move the piano around, make the harp do this and then change this chord on the

strings. Cause I, again, I speak all these languages and like that's an opportunity to be like, so I've like had, and you know, I like, and I, and then also because I'm, I'm always, I feel like I'm always like, not, not taken advantage of it all, but like, it's just like, I'm too eager. Like I'm like, I love video game music but like it's just like I'm too eager like I'm like I love video game music so it's like I'm just like yeah yeah you don't I don't need a composition credit I just want this to be cool and good like I just want to contribute yeah yeah and so um so there there have certainly been times when I've like helped like sculpt things in like so excited to collect and in as much as the composer is respectfully

as much as the composer wants or not wants. And now I find myself in a place where it's like, oh, I can, I actually kind of started doing this on Instagram where I made this series like called you should know about this instrument. And on the series, I'm demonstrating a bunch of different instruments. And at the end, I write like a 30 second, basically a 30 second video game track. And I'm kind of subtle about it, because I just said I wrote a little something for you, but they're all like original compositions that could like if you go in a game, yeah, that could work in a game. And so in like, I think I think most of them work. I've gotten a couple ones that have gone like, a little bit viral. However you define viral.

I don't know how you define viral, but like two million views feels cool. I don't know. Sick like a cold, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, so now it's just a mess. So now I'm trying to like lean into that more. And also because I have, like most composers are pianists and guitarists, so usually the's just a mess. So now I'm trying to like lean into that more and also because I have like most composers are

Pianists and guitarists are usually the people who end up Their versatile instruments and you can yeah. Yeah, but so I figure like part of my unique pitch as a composer is Hey, let me write for your video game You're going to get a sound that no one else can create or well, and also like hiring people like me is usually like the expensive like pricey extra part at the end. You know, it's like, oh, we get to hire like live wins or something. Yeah. Yeah. But when I'm like, I'll because I'm the composer and I'm not paying myself in that way,, I can put 160 instruments on this for free, right? Like, of my own instruments. It'll open up some sanity. Yeah. And then I can hire the guitar player. Like, you know, like kind of doing it. So like,

so I'm currently like looking for studios that would be interested in kind of that, like having like a unique sound like that. And, you know, and also finding like a game that I'm excited about and people I like to work with. I will say, I don't know, there's a part of with the nepotism thing about this industry, like there's a part of me that loves it and there's a part of me that hates it because like I do want to live in like a meritocracy. Like there's a part of me because especially like I did like classical, I did classical

training. to live in like a meritocracy, like there's a part of it, because especially like I did like classical, I did classical training, I did jazz training, where it's like, those are like competition, like genres where like, people really try to like, whatever the best is they try to be, but when you do nepotism, you get to work with a bunch of friendly people because, like, you know, when it's like a nepotistic hiring thing, like the best person might be not very fun to work with. Right. And so like the second best person who's almost as good, but really nice,

will usually get the job. And there's a part of me, like the college, like young version of me is like, screw that, but the more adult be like, yeah, but you have to like live with these people. So it's like, if they're the second, I'm not going to take the 10th best, but I'll take the second best. If they're way nicer, because I get a certain point, it's just like, your quality will diminish

if you have to work with someone who is intolerable. I agree. I agree. I agree. So it's finding the balance of like nepotism and meritocracy. Yeah. But you know, everyone's trying to thread that needle. Well, so that's a really interesting concept about how you are sort of using your unique talents to create a unique selling proposition

is what we would call it in business. Yeah. So, but with your specific niche, I mean, I don't wanna put you in a corner. You play everything, basically. I mean, you play lots and lots and lots of instruments. Instruments I've never seen before. Fascinating stuff, by the way.

There's, this is primarily an audio format show, but for anybody listening, I beg of you to check out Josh's, his social media and his YouTube in particular is just fascinating instruments. What type of game do you think your music is most suited for? Like if you were to choose a dream sort of IP project or something like something that exists, what does that look like? I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is something in the fantasy or probably more the fantasy genre would work the best. Just because like one thing I can very easily do is create kind of traditional sounding things that like are from no culture at

all. And that like if and like it's a very for me it's like because I've studied I've studied classical Indian music and I've studied Irish music and I've studied Bulgarian music and all like Chinese music, Japanese music and so if you take Irish techniques and play them on a Peruvian flute, like you get like, yeah so you can get like traditional sounding like kind of like fusion that like comes from nothing so like something Zelda-y like Breath of they, like Breath of the Wild, like that Breath of the Wild soundtrack,

when I first heard it, I was like, dang, those were like definitely some of my ideas. Like it was like the kind of like thing that I would love to make. But you know, I got more in me than that, for sure. I actually just did a bunch of work for a series that's coming out that's like horror and actually like taking a lot of these like wind textures and just putting them through like interesting filters and stuff.

Are you able to tell me what series it is? I don't think it's not out yet so I don't think I can say it. I think I know what you're talking about. But yeah, but there's like some cool unique things that you can do like in the horror things are just like, you know, especially like they're like the The big breathy like low stuff is and then like modulated or actually, you know, it can be terrifying It what can be really terrifying is um Jaw harp you do things with like jaw harp is menacing if you do it, right? Um You do things with like job is menacing if you do it, right? Um

Yeah, there's so there's like all sorts of like and again like I just have like a deep inner library of unique sounds that like for anything that like Wants a lot of flavor. I Feel like I'm very well suited for you know, I Love it. I There's a of... I love indie games. I love... and we talk about this often on the show with the other hosts, is that indie games notably seem to have such a strong musical influence.

Like there's a game series called Tales of Iron where it's sort of like a Souls-like, but it's like woodblock inspired art and very music focused. You know, it's kind of like a Game of Thrones influence on it. But one of the things that really struck me in this game is that instead of dialogue for most of the character, they use these sort of different woodwind instruments to mimic what would have normally been their voice. And it's done in such a creative, whimsical way

that it really helps to transport you into this world. It's kind of a transformative experience. Oh man, I've actually got, I just got a flute that it sounds so much like the Charlie Brown trombone talking. Do you have it there? Oh, I think I put it, I don't know. I'd have to dig for it. I don't want to put you on the spot.

Um, yeah, but it sounds like it's, it's a, it's a nose flute actually, but it sounds like, yeah, it's really, I don't know, like how it's almost like, it's kind of like a niche toy almost, but like you could use it. I would say nose flute categorically niche toy. It's made of plastic it's like like a baby Herman instrument bro but but it's like it like has that like want want want want want want like the Charlie Brown adult voice thing but it's like totally different and then like oh this needs to be the voice of a character in a series like or in a game like it or it could be a whole like species are like it like it would be part like if there's a race of like little weird guys

Like this would be their voice easily and you can like be so expressive with it and like say say things, you know Yeah, but yeah very very interesting. So like you're getting more into this composition side of the business once I getting more into this composition side of the business. Once I actually heard a really interesting story. So somebody that has composed one of my all-time favorite soundtracks, his name is Tobias Lilja. He composed the soundtrack for several games but notably Little Nightmares and Little Nightmares 2. And Little Nightmares 2 is one of my all-time favorite gaming experiences.

It's whimsical horror that's very story-driven, and the soundscape in particular is just gorgeous. I can't imagine the game without it. It is probably the most important part of the game for me. And when we were talking about how he gets involved, it was shocking actually how late in the development of the game he actually gets involved in this. And I was curious to get your opinion on that because, again, I feel like I don't know how they could have shaped this game without the soundtrack.

It's almost like this, the sound informs the game rather than the opposite. What what is your experience been so far or what is your expectation as far as like when you get involved in how you're supposed to, you know, make this audio experience match the gaming experience? Yeah. So what I would say about the video game world, and I don't think anyone would disagree with me is like video games are really the wild west of entertainment.

Like there's just not only like, is there no rules, but there's also like, there's no, there's no traditions, there's no norms. And that creates such a potentially cool product and such a potentially like amazing creative space, but also professionally it can create, depending on the team, it can create like an absolute nightmare crunch scenario. But it really depends, and it depends on just the way people are. There are some people who take big swings and make history in there. Some people who take big swings and send a bunch of people to therapy.

Yep. And it's real. Or some combination thereof. Truly. Yeah. But so because there's no norms, there's like standard practices, like you really felt like each one is its own beast. And sometimes you find game developers being like, oh yeah, music. Can you just make music like by next week? And they're like, and any-

I could make some music by next week. But any composer is like, I mean, if you have the budget to make me that miserable. Like, and yeah, so it's, but then other things like I worked on a Hannah Bridge of Spirits, which was an indie game that not a lot of people know about by Ember Lab Studios, who you might've seen, they did a Legend of Zelda like film first where it was like, uh, it was, it's one super viral, but it's like this guy or, well, I don't know if he's like a name character in the universe, but he finds the Majora's mask and like puts it on and goes crazy. It's like a very, very viral, like well-produced video. They turned into

like a game company. And then like when I worked with the, uh, composer on this, uh, Jason Galati, like we, we worked for years. I think it was two or three years, like crafting all this amazing. It's one of my favorite projects that I worked on. I worked so closely, uh, with him on this. And it was just like, we really went in on every track, uh, for really cool stuff. And the game's fun too. It's like, it's like a Zelda E it's very, it's like, it's like Zelda, but like,

very like peaceful and zen and Southeast Asian vibes. Yeah. But so like there's that. But even, even he, I know like I was protected from it in my role in the project, but like, and I did some orchestration for it too, but he, I know like had insane crunches that would just like be like, Oh, we're doing stuff for doing some, Oh my God, everything is due right now. You know? Is that just the nature of the industry in gaming? Is that usually, wow, like distribution has set some, some new timeline that we have to hit and now we have to accelerate everything. Yeah. And usually it's like, we don't want to make the team bigger. We don't want to spend more.

It's like, we're not going to hire more people. We're not going to spend more money. How do we get this done by this time with the resources that we currently have? And also it's double what it was yesterday. Here you go. Yeah. But, you know, it just totally depends on the game studio.

But yeah, those crunches are a typical consequence of the way many people end up doing business. So at what point in your life did you say, man, I really want to work super, super hard for a job with an incredibly low probability of success. What could I do? Ah, musician. What led you down this path? I mean, so I wanted to play saxophone since I was three years old. Yeah, you started out with alto sax. That was the first instrument I learned and failed at. Yeah, you start out with alto sax. That was the first instrument I learned and failed at but Um, yes, i've always like been into it. My mom thought it was a phase which was like, okay I didn't start until like when I was 10 years old when the band program started. Um, but then I just kept

going, um and yeah, I think from an early age too, I was like Kind of thinking or well from like college I should say which is early for I was thinking about not just like yeah I want to do this like I was so serious about wanting to do it that Instead of spending quite as many hours like oh, I need to practice harder I was like, oh I need to figure out how this crazy business works and I need to figure out, you know the to figure out how this crazy business works. And I need to figure out, you know, the, the nitty gritty stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause well, cause also like when you see, and this is for every industry, when you see people like all the way at the top and you're like, they're not very good. Like how did they get there? It's like, they're very good at business. They're very good at networking and like, and, and like, those are skills that, you know, you're not, because it's's very like it's very simple to just like hone a single skill to perfection, but that sometimes then it'll never get out of your basement, you know. And if it's a hobby, that's cool. That's a vibe. But if you're trying to do it professionally, make money, you have to like also play the game.

Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of playing the game here, so you mentioned before that gaming is sort of like the Wild West of entertainment. There's not a lot of rules. It's very freeform, very immersive. As it stands today, the gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry and the music industry combined at this point.

To the point where, you know, video games are so ubiquitous and embraced in society that now games that are beloved games are receiving like concert series, like where people are going to see live performances. Yeah, exactly, I was gonna mention that, the Witcher concert series, yeah, which you perform in. This has gotta be such a interesting intersection

of your own interests being that you're a gamer and somebody who was drawn to New York For Broadway and now you're kind of getting to do both a little bit Tell me about tell me about this tell me about this experience which are in particular. Yeah. Yeah So I'm actually very like passionate about this kind of thing that's happening these these live concerts, because first of all, fans love them. Especially because a lot of times this music is like classical adjacent, or like played by an orchestra. Film scoring is a branch of classical music, if not the branch of classical music in terms

of popularity. And just watching people come to what is ostensibly a classical music concert and lose their minds. People could do that for Beethoven, but Beethoven is presented in the most, the coolest music is presented in the most, the coolest music is presented in the most boring way. Like truly just like, it's like this like neutral like stuffiness to it. Whereas like we started the Witcher concert being like, hey, this is a party.

Please have fun, cheer. When you see characters you love on screen and we had a screen and we had a light show. Like, yell, scream scream have a good time There's a guy who dressed in cosplay so good that the entire in the first concert that we did the witcher His cosplay was so good. I don't know. He probably did this on purpose He like walked across like the very front of the theater Oh, yeah, and I think people thought that like Henry Cavill was there is this cosplay was amazing

but like people just started like clapping for him and then he just like sat down in a random seat because he wasn't Henry Cavill was there his this cosplay was amazing but like people just started like clapping for him and then he just like sat down in a random seat because he wasn't Henry Cavill like is that his last name anyways yeah close enough i guess uh the actor who plays uh the guy in the witcher um uh yeah but so the guy in the witcher bro the witch ha ha ha ha ha. The Witcher in the Witcher. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Adidas. When the frustration grows and the doubts start to creep in, we all need someone who has our back. To tell us we'll be okay,

to remind us of our ability to believe, because their belief in us transfers to self-belief and reminds us of all that we're capable of. We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag, you got this. Yeah, anyways. But just seeing... People's love for it is real.

By the way, I 100% agree with you with regards to classical music. My wife and I had the opportunity to go to Europe recently. We went to Salzburg, birthplace of Mozart. Nice. And so I have seen like live orchestral performances of Mozart and some other classical composers. And man, is that boring, bro.

The music is so interesting and technical and you can appreciate it on its merit, but for me as a layman, it is boring to watch. We went to Salzburg and did this little opera-esque dinner sort of experience where they just had two performers performing like the Marriage of Figaro and the Magic Flute and some of the other more notable Mozart pieces. And just the extra immersion of being able to experience the pieces with the emotional investment of the characters enhanced the whole experience tenfold. Now magnify that by somebody living

vicariously through a game character for 20, 30, 100, 200,000 hours. The emotional investment is so deep that I imagine when they go to one of these concert series it is emotional on a level that would be difficult to replicate in any other marriage of media. Yeah, absolutely. And it is so exciting that it's just like, it's like as popular as it deserves to be. It's like, it's gratifying because also you're doing, when you're playing the game, you're like basically alone, maybe with significant other or a friend, and then you get to come to a concert

Where there are three thousand other people who are just as hyped if not more hyped as you like it's like it's you know it's gratifying it's like it's just like this kind of thing and so I've been like especially on the witcher. I put in a Lot of extra work to help make this concert happen. I wore a lot of hats that I was not hired to wear, but just to make sure that the concert went off without a hitch. There was one night I slept for two hours to just make a couple things happen, deliver a few things. And yeah, I feel like this kind of thing truly, like culturally is a thing that I so deeply want to see become normalized and everywhere and succeed. Uh, because it's just like, it's good for the games themselves.

Like it's good for the companies. It's good. Like press. Cause like right. The, the new witcher is coming out soon. And so this is amazing press to get hyped Like in like that that's great for that But it's also it's like it's great for

Orchestra musicians like there aren't a ton of French horn gigs to go around haha there are truly like but there are like a lot of talented French horn players who like who could use jobs and like this is also like creates more jobs for like classical musicians who are deserving of those jobs. But it's just like, honestly, there's a lot of like 70 year old people who are like, I don't want to retire, um, at the moment, you know, so it's like, it's, it's hard for people to write out of college or even people who are like in

their, anyone who's below 40 in the classical music world is probably struggling a little bit. I imagine. Yeah, I imagine. But like this kind of stuff creates a ton of opportunities that just like weren't there. And in a way we're also like French horn players aren't used to screams that loud. Again, again, they should be like, but like, you know, the when you say screams that loud, you mean like audience enthusiasm,

audience enthusiasm. Yeah. What I imagine is my experience or to what? Yeah. Depends on the show, I guess. But yeah, my experience with going to see like classical performances, it's like a golf audience. Yeah, exactly. Whereas probably what you're experiencing playing at the Richard Witcher is like a rock rock show, you know, where it's just entirely. That's so cool. To the point that like I didn't feel like even though I was sitting actually right the loudest section, I was sitting right next to I was playing bass clarinet on that show and I know, but I was sitting right next to the brass

section and right next to the drums, the loudest thing that I was like I should have brought hearing protection was the audience. Truly like just like that. Yeah, man. Let's go. That's so cool to hear it Yeah, that's it. Yeah, you know clearly I love gaming. There's a reason why I work on this show, but Man, I just love stories about people getting hyped about this stuff. The music in particular, because it's not a visual component of the game, of the media, whatever, I think it often doesn't get the credit that it deserves in gaming. And so I love the fact that the industry seems to be taking this critical, almost blood-like component of the experience and giving it a new, you know, a new expression of performance. It is awesome to hear and deserving of it.

You know, you're doing the Witcher now. I imagine that a Claire Obscure Expedition 33 tour is probably somewhere in the future. I hope so. Just a fantastic soundtrack. Expedition 33 tour is probably somewhere in the future. I hope so just a fantastic soundtrack and and man the fact that

The fact that you're able to breathe life into this and frankly the fact that it's able to keep people employed. That's that's cool That's something that you wouldn't normally think about As a component to this So yeah, absolutely. Yeah It's, I can't remember what I was gonna say. Josh, I don't know if you'd be open to this, but I have some community questions from our Discord, just curiosity stuff. Sure. So from Josh, one of the hosts of the show, primary host of the show, asked, what is your favorite instrument to play and listen to?

Oh man, that's like picking between my kids and I have 160 kids. Well yeah, but everyone has a favorite kid. It's usually whoever's in front of them, but everyone knows they've got a favorite. I guess, like I started with, like if I'm at a bar and I don't want to have a long conversation about all the things I do, I'll just say like, yeah, I play saxophone. Like that's like, that's nearest and dearest to my heart.

Like that's what I started with. And that's like what I love. That's what feels like home, but all the like, but like there are certain like emotions that you just need other tools for. So it's not like only saxophone, but yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. In my head and I might have a skew on this,

but saxophone is, it's amazing, but it also has a range that like it's a, I don't, I can't imagine saxophone being like an angry, well, I don't know actually. Oh, also like there's a whole world of, I can't imagine saxophone being like an angry, well I don't know actually. Oh. Also like there's a whole world of, I mean classical saxophone is a thing that most people don't know about,

but it like classical saxophone quartet music is like a sound that is really wild and unique that is very almost like academically niche, but like it's incredible like what classical saxophonists do. It's like very technical, and like it's incredible, like what classical saxophonists do. Um, it's, it's like very technical and saxophone is a more, it's the most, I would argue it's the most flexible woodwind. It can get the loudest and it can get just as soft as anything else. It has an extreme range.

It's very easy to play very fast. You can do lots of like effects. So like the modern classical people do crazy stuff that is very not well known, but is very cool. Speaking of classical music, from Tyler Fullist in our Discord community, he asked, you're a reputed classical music fan, what is your favorite era of music overall? Like your favorite era to music, like your favorite era to music music of listen to and to play My first thought was now but that feels like a cop-out and like now just because we're doing like so much fusion of everything

But to answer the question and I feel like the spirit of the question. It's death metal, right? What death metal death metal. You seem like a death metal guy. I mean you seem like a cannibal corpse kind of. Yeah. Yeah, you got me.

Can I have a to a saxophone. I'm trying to think because I've been listening to like a lot of like more modern artists lately. I mean, I love like I mean, I grew up listening to all the nineteen, like 40s, 50s, 60s jazz stuff. Yeah, I love it. Like that's, you know, my background is as a jazz musician. So like all like, you know, I was obsessed with Charlie Parker for a while and Phil Woods. And yeah, it's like Kenny Garrett, a more modern example, but still, you know, he's alive at least.

But rare for a jazz musician these days. But yeah, I'm trying to yeah, I'll say like 40s 50s. 40s 50s 60s. Have you spent any time in New Orleans? A little bit. Yeah, I definitely like that town. I want to spend more time there. Oh, dude. I would just say avoid like Mardi Gras time. But if you can go in the winter, it's wonderful. Like it's it's still warm enough that it's like pleasant. But it, you know. Berman, Berman Street and French Quarter never really shut down.

There's just different amazing music in literally every single joint that you could go to. music in literally every single joint that you could go to. And I imagine. I've got a video somewhere of me playing like a clarinet solo, like a Dixieland, my attempt at Dixieland, because I have nothing on those like real Dixieland guys. But on the, there's like a really big, like old established jazz venue that's like next to like a little like market. I can't think what it's called it's like near Bourbon Street anyways but yeah I know what you mean it's a mate like the way that music is just everywhere in that

city so cool yeah exactly I can think of few other cities where music is important culturally as it is in in New Orleans and it gets a bad rap because of all the Mardi Gras stuff in a party city but man as a Musician or as somebody who's a music appreciator. Oh, it is a it is a Nexus point. Um From from jiggle puff Do you do you feel like you've got a signature sound like? Like if you were to like try and give yourself an elevator pitch to somebody who might be looking to employ somebody

Or like yourself like how would you move? What's the what's the magic phrase if I'm being honest? I like that's something I'm kind of trying to work out these days and trying to figure out because I For a while. I've been saying I'm trying to win the Grammy for the weirdest career and it's going great the Grammy for the weirdest career and it's going great. Like I've been so all over, like I have a multi-platinum hip hop record that I'm a producer on. Really? Yeah, I don't like, but it's like, I don't really like the hip hop world that much. Like hip hop music is great, but the hip hop world is not my favorite industry.

But like, yeah, but then I've done, you know, the classical stuff, the jazz stuff, the video game stuff. I've worked with like AJR a little bit. I'm sorry. I'm not going to be able to focus until what is the record that Ambition for Cash by Key Glock. Okay. Yeah. And I'm on a few other ones too, but like truly all over the place. And yeah, so like I'm trying to narrow down my signature sound these days, but it's like there's a part of me that like doesn't want to be crammed into that box, but also understanding that it's useful to have a box.

Yeah. Nice, okay. Coming back to The Witcher, our Discord community member, Disritory, mentioned he is very excited about this Witcher project. Are you aware of any other concert series that might be giving games the same treatment coming up? Besides the Witcher. Yeah, exactly.

Anything you know that might be like for sure in the works, not just hypothetically. There's a PlayStation concert coming up. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, it's coming to I'm currently in like Seattle area and I just got a Notification for it in like February or something. Yeah. Um, yeah It's I've seen I mean I have not a part of that one I at least yeah, I do know the people who are putting it on so maybe I will be a part of that one I'd love to be

But it looks amazing. It looks very very cool. And I yeah, I'm like call me You guys have my number. Yes. I'm here for anybody who isn't familiar with this There's a PlayStation concert series where it's literally gonna be like a greatest hits over the last You know 20 years of PlayStation gaming and soundtracks for PlayStation games, it looks incredible. It looks like that's going to be like a once-in-a-lifetime experience. And speaking of which, Hypnotic Pyro asks, you know, you performed famously on the Red Dead Redemption 2 score. What was that experience like? Man, that experience was so wild. I don't know. The way they found me, my understanding is like,

like normally musicians, like people find music through like a friend of a friend. I think there was a website, I assume it's called like gig salad, that like 22 year old me was like, I'm going to sign up for every single job site and say that I can Play saxophone at your wedding and like stuff like that And I think that's how they found me and I ended up hiring a band of like all the coolest people I could think of And we got some like there's some cool people on the track to like Natalie Tenenbaum and Charlie Rosen are like Danny Giannicucci just wrote like, he like, he arranges

for like Lady Gaga. Like, like the people on that, that track, or well, a few tracks are like all crushing it these days. But um, but yeah, I like, I hired the band and they just like asked us to play random, like, because it's all public domain music music They wanted it to be like very accurate to the year and we owe and we the studio we were I thought I knew all the like New York the main New York recording studios like if like Like the the big ones and there was like this like little Recruits who like just really it's like a metal studio like like metal bands like only in like and in the like the green room It's just booze, you know like But yeah, and it was unusual too because usually these like places are like, you know

But this was like I'm like in an office building high-rise like on the water It was like that's like not a typical music studio location I feel like they're usually closer to the ground floor often in the basement. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was a really, and they just were like, do whatever you want, kind of. Pick public domain things that existed, and then just kind of make up the arrangements.

It was super collaborative. They were really nice. Yeah, we had a great time. And then, so all the music I did is in the theater in in New Orleans actually in the game and like Yeah, we had to record all sorts of things for like oh, yeah If they shoot them if they shoot the performers like we have to like have like a reaction So we have to have like some like things like when the band like falls apart or like stuff like that that we can like it's like almost like at that point like you have to like truly yeah we yeah we did all sorts of stuff and I I had

fun bringing like I brought like a slide whistle and like all sorts of like weird little like extra toys for that like vaudeville sound yeah that was a really fun project. That is so cool to hear. And you're a really, really interesting guy to talk to, Josh. So I have to ask, and I don't wanna put you on the spot here, man, but you played in a lot of legendary projects. You got instruments all over your studio there.

Is there some way I can pressure you into playing us a little ditty? Yeah, I could play a little ditty. What do you got? I've got, oh, I've got an ocarina. I just so happen to know about a game that features an ocarina. Sure, actually, you know before you know I'll I'll play what you want me to play. Okay.

But before I do you know it's really fun that I can do on this actually at Star Wars Galaxy Edge like in Disney. Yes yeah big fan. The the Star Wars part. I played on a track in there and what's fun about this so this is an ocarina. Ocarinas are really unstandardized. Like there's like, everyone makes them differently. Like where's like a saxophone is like, they're all kind of the same every company. Ocarinas, there's no, so this one is a triple ocarina.

So it can play three notes at once. And long story short, you can make it sound like this. Wow. Yeah, it's a droid. So I definitely played that for, yeah, for, there's this track somewhere. I think it's in like the- Dude, you're blowing my mind right now. The bar place or something. That's not how they made the R2-D2 sound, I'm pretty sure.

But I did, I was like, that sounds perfectly like a droid. Absolutely. Yeah. Sounds perfectly like a droid absolutely yeah, and it's very fun to do Yeah for anybody listening if there were a time to tune into the visual component of the show that this is it that Josh is creating a wonderful visual with this with this ocarina Wow, but yeah, but you know the I think the more famous ocarina thing is this right Dude, I gotta tell you, you just unlocked so many 30 and 40 something year old people's core memory boxes

with that. Amazing. Yeah, that is awesome, dude. That is awesome. Oh, thank you. Josh, you're such an awesome dude for joining us on the show, man. Where can people follow you and your projects?

Yeah, so it's usually just my name on, so at Josh Plotner, J-O-S-H-p-l-o-t-n-e-r on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, those are the play. Oh, and my website is joshplotnermusic.com if you want to see a bunch of nerdy woodwind stuff. It's all there. And yeah. Yeah, and listeners, watchers, I highly encourage you to do it. There is something that just creates another level of immersion seeing how these soundscapes in games are created and seeing how a man of Josh's talent is able to apply said talents to the gaming experience as we all know and love. It is absolutely fascinating and gives you another level of appreciation for the gaming

experience. For anybody who's listening, thank you so much for listening to this show. If you've enjoyed your experience, please take a moment to rate this show five stars in your podcast player of choice and give us a follow. It's usually like a little plus symbol or the little three dots somewhere on your podcast player. If you'd like to take your support a level further, please join us on patreon. We've just revamped all of our patreon perks It's very robust set of perks which includes raw cuts of episodes like this so you can see before and after the show and you know those efforts really help independent shows like us keep going and Be able to talk to awesome people like Josh here guys. That's all we've got for this one

Thank you very much for your time, and until next time, happy gaming. ["Skyrim 2.0 Remake"]