Video Gamers Podcast - The Beauty of Gaming - Gaming Podcast

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Gaming hosts Josh and Ryan are back and we’re bringing you an INCREDIBLE episode. We had the opportunity to chat with incredible artist and animator Sykosan. Sykosan has worked on multiple video games, is an amazing artist and even animated an entire Katy Perry video. We sit down to chatvideo games, art, animation and much more. We learn some shocking things about the difficulty of animation in gaming, and have an absolute blast while doing it! It’s another gaming packed episode from the Video Gamers Podcast! Check out Sykosan’s incredible work at: https://www.instagram.com/sykosan/  Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Ol’ Jake, Disratory and Gaius Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Discord: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod  Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU12YOMnAQwqFZEdfXv9c3Q   Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hello, fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's very common for a game's artwork to capture our attention quickly. But what about the animation side of things? The people that take a game from concept art to interactive experience. Is animation as time consuming as we think? What sets good animation apart from bad animation? Well, today we're going to find out as we dive into the world of art and animation in gaming. But first some introductions are in order. I am your host Josh and joining me.

A lot of you see him in 2d, but if he turns sideways, believe me, the 3d side of his face comes out. It's right. That's how many, uh, you know, I am self-described with this big, big old nose of mine, but that's two in a row. You put me on blast on the episodes, man. I can do that. Cause as a fellow big node, big nose person, man, you know, yeah.

Oh, yes, I can smell colors. That's all. Oh man. And joining us, the man with more talent in his little finger than Ryan and I combined is Psycho-san. Nice to be here. Great to see you guys. Man. It is awesome. It is awesome to have you Psycho-san. Thank you so much for joining us, man.

Hi, it's always a pleasure. I always love talking about animation and video games as well. So yeah, looking forward to it. This is great. it's like a son You know, I'm just gonna start off with the fact that you have already made an impression on this podcast with some of your art So the rest of this episode is gonna be very easy for those that aren't aware You did actually draw our Kind of mascots that we have for this podcast now,

which was really awesome to see kind of go from just a concept of, hey, let's have three little guys that kind of represent us to your just kind of drawing of them in a, you know, just without any color or anything and say, hey, you know, how does this look? And we were all kind of blown away. And then to see the progress of you coloring them and designing them and kind of arranging them and all that

has been awesome. So I know a lot of our listeners are already familiar with some work that you have done and the talent that you have in that regard. But for people that don't know, you have also done a good bit of animation work in gaming. And not only in gaming, but a Katy Perry video that we will talk about a little bit later as well.

And so we are really excited to have you join us and really kind of give us some insight into art and animation and how that ties into gaming and just the world as a whole as well. So. Yeah, I hope I can inspire some people in the way. That'd be cool. You know, yeah, animation is a great world.

And it's just like video games. It's full of similar things. You know, it's very close. So yeah, it's neat because it's like I think as gamers, you know, and I kind of touched on that where it's like we see, you know, a new game come out and we go, oh, man, the art style in this game is beautiful. Like we just talked to the, some of the developers for a game called Tales of Iron 2.

It's an indie game, really, really neat, unique kind of art style there. And it's one of those things where everybody goes like, oh man, the art in this game is awesome. But as gamers, like we don't ever talk about animation. Like without animation, we don't have video games. But it's one of those things where I think it's kind of a blind spot for us. So that's one reason we're really excited to have you on the show and kind of just

get a look into some of that stuff, because I think it's something that we don't necessarily put enough emphasis on. And we're dying to know a little bit more about it. And so we have, you know, that's one of those things that we have been doing. We've been talking to different people in the industry. We've, we've chatted with some voice actors. We've chatted with some game developers, some designers,

you know, now we're talking with you, obviously, to kind of get a look at that side of things, which is really exciting for us. But we always like to kind of start off because we are a gaming podcast and we like to just say, Hey, let's chat games for a little bit so people can kind of get to know you a little bit more as well. And so we always reach out and we, you know, we always say, Hey, what are like, what are some of your favorite games that you've played, you know,

in the past or, you know, some, some gaming memories and stuff like that. And so you mentioned a love of some old school games and you mentioned some of these like Street Fighter. Yeah, of course. If you know my work, you'll know I'll just keep drawing these characters even even today. And I'm still definitely more influenced by the original Street Fighters than the latest ones. Yes, I was a huge fan of Street Fighter 2. I've told the story of many, many a day of spending way too much time in the arcades and pumping quarters into those things and stuff like that. You also mentioned Bubble Bobble, Prince of Persia and Monkey Island.

I mean, these are some all-timer games. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, it's a long time ago. I forget even what the story was in some of these games But yeah, they just stayed with me the designs the style. I think it was very much Influenced by the looks that what that's what the first thing that would attract me to a game It was the looks and these games looked really good. They looked amazing at the time and still today they do

I hope we'll talk about that too They still so some of them still stand on their own two feet despite the new technologies and everything. That's something that's so cool and unique too with, and it shows how important a good art style is to a game, is when something can hold up 30 plus years later. It shows how impactful that is and also the influence it has on people. I know we were talking before and you had mentioned, you know, some of these games did influence your art and your design styles and how you kind of look at the way you draw characters and animate now.

But yeah, it's so cool to see what it can do to people. I've got memories when I was a child and going to the arcades, right? That's what we used to do to get the best games, I suppose. Oh, yeah. And I would just, I didn't have enough money to play for hours. I just had a little bit of money. And I would play a couple of games and whatnot, and then just stand around for hours, or as long as I could,

just looking at other players, or just looking at the opening sequences that have gone in the arcades. And yeah, I would look at the, just observe the characters and how they move and their attacks or whatever, because usually it's fighting games most of the time. We talked about Bubble Ball, for example, it had a really cute style and the design of the monsters, just a few pixels wide, they were still very clever and very expressive. So yeah, it was fascinating for my childhood eyes, you know, I was absolutely mesmerized by those.

So, yeah, I remember just now about these Irem games. I think, I don't know if I say that right, it's Irem. They made these ninja games and I think Irem Corp was the one that did R-Type And I think I room Corp was the one that did, uh, um, our type. I think, um, I forget that too, but our type was our types of throwback, man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. You're so good.

So good. Yeah. I was a massive fan of that. I don't know about you guys, but I have these, these songs in my head sometimes from video game times. It just keep coming back. And, uh, on my playlist, I've got some games, tunes, just because I enjoy listening to them again. Yeah. It just marks you for life, I suppose.

That's what it is. It really does. It's funny because I remember begging my parents for a Sound Blaster card because way back in the day, you didn't have music in games. You only had your little PC speaker and it could only make little bleeps and bloops and that was it. And I remember the Sierra game started coming out and they had music in them, but you couldn't play the music unless you had an actual sound card for that. People don't know how long, like how far we've come, man. Not to sound like the old man, but it's like we have have come a very long way. And we're lucky. We're lucky we've seen it all coming to life.

We've seen it, we've lived it through it. Now there's only one time in history when video games came to be and we were there. So that's fantastic. We're right in it, baby. Heck yeah. It's true. I know, I love it.

I gotta say, I love that Prince of Persia is one of the games that you mentioned because I remember Prince of Persia coming out Right and thinking the animation in that game was second to none Nobody had done like this leaping and grabbing a ledge and then climbing up on the ledge like that was unheard of so that Was the thing with Prince of Persia? Yeah, it wasn't necessarily the game. It was like look how this guy is moving Absolutely. I think the technique they used was a technique called rotoscoping, which is, you could say a little bit cheating,

but honestly, even Disney used these techniques and they're perfectly fine. The idea is that you use an actual footage of a real person as a base for your animation. It doesn't mean that you copy everything because you have to reinvent the design. You have to simplify, you have to add the style to things and all the effects. There's plenty of work to be done but it gives you a solid base and I think they had two things. They had this good modeled footage and they had more frames. You needed to have the technology to have more frames for your little pixel art, you know, and your little, how do you call them? Um, yeah. Uh, sprites. That's it. I was going to offer that and then I was like, I'm going to sound really stupid.

That's not the right word. Yeah. Um, so, uh, you can only, so you, so many drawings, I suppose, back in the days. But it was good to see that fluidity, that motion. It was beautiful. It was really something groundbreaking at the time. So I love that you brought that up as well.

And then we get into the Nintendo and the emergence of some of these 3D games. Famously, you mentioned Tomb Raider. I think we all remember Tomb Raider coming out and just blowing our minds, because now we have 3D models and it's like, we're living in the future. I know.

The thing is that 3D had been around for a little while. It was coming, right? We were expecting great things from 3D, but I think this one was the first one to really give a glimpse of what we could expect. There's just the fluidity the the nice designs the the clever move, you know controls and whatnot So yes, I think there was a big big leap forward with that game that really kind of said to everyone Well, buddy, this is the future

I at that point you knew like is before that the 3d was so clumsy and clunky in so many ways, but after that I was like no, no coming back now. This is 3D game. Yeah. Oh yeah. I remember, I mean you're going from games on the Sega, Nintendo and these side scrollers and while they may have looked good, there was nothing like it when this came out. And I remember fighting as a kid, fighting like a tiger. And I was like, you know, as a kid fighting like a tiger. And I was like, this is, this is the best graphics I'm ever going to see in my whole life. Like, look at this thing.

It looks like a real tiger, mom. You know, look at it. And I was like, don't look at her. Don't look at Laura Croft though. Cause then I won't be able to play the game anymore, but let's focus on that. Yeah. So do you, you know, we're talking about these kind of 2D games versus when we started to get into the 3D world.

And, you know, we're kind of seeing almost this resurgence of like the 8-bit and 16-bit pixel art kind of thing that we see, especially from a lot of indie games. I am a self-professed graphics snob. Like, I love just cutting edge technology graphics. Oh, this looks so good, that kind of thing. But I am also softening. I mean, I do love art.

So a game that has a really neat art style really draws my attention too. Do you have a preference? How do you like, do you like pixel art? Do you think this 16-bit thing is interesting? Now, this is a great question because you like pixel art? Do you think this 16-bit thing is interesting? This is a great question, because you wonder, right? We tend to think, I think it's probably a default position.

Most people think better graphics is just going to be better. Why would you look back and go back to something that's less detailed or less smooth? But the thing with art in general is that it's never been about being realistic. If you look at any, like the history of painting, there was a time first when you start with simple drawings, there's a lack of experience or lack of tools, and then painters develop these new art styles that become more and more realistic. And then eventually when you get to a certain realism,

you go back to stylized style, you know, and Picasso came along when he knew how to paint realistic things, personally decides to do cubism and people were like, oh, this is great. It comes down to the fact that there are different styles and I think we appreciate different styles and that's all it is. And when 3D comes along and it's a new thing everybody's interested because we're

exploring a new avenue, that's what it is. 3D is like a new thing with a new look. So we throw ourselves into it, we want to see how far we can push it. And I think 3D has now basically attained its maturity. We have great styles that are really perfectly controlled. It feels like 3D can hardly get any better. It's so good. It's so hyper realistic. We can do a fantasy. We can do realism. All that, no problem. Special effects are just mind blowing. Now we've reached the end of that world in principle. We know what we can do with it. So we always choose to find new things.

So we go back to other styles. And what's the beauty of a sketch, for example, is that it's simple. Just a little line on white paper can do something interesting. Why? Because it's stylization of the real world. And everybody, if it's done well everybody's gonna like it you don't have to go full realism to make something interesting and i think that's what is happening with pixel art. pixel art is interesting because it's a simplification it's the stylization of of the world and it's interesting in itself as long as it's interesting it will

always be there i think it's like and to, it looks like a painting if because the pixels are big and colorful and bright. And yeah, it's it has this appeal of a beautiful painting when you when you just brighten up the colors and simplify the drawings. So I think we've we've done some really, I say we not me, but artists have done some really good things with pixel art lately to where, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with the game called Dave the diver, but a very, very popular game that came out a year or two ago and it's all pixel art. Oh, cool. But they they've utilized like pixel art with, I don't even know how to describe it with like effects and backgrounds to it and stuff like that, to where it's gotten like, it's actually gotten really beautiful.

Like I love what you're saying about the simplicity of it. But I feel like with people kind of going back to using pixel art and then enhancing it, they've kind of done some really, really neat things with it at the same time to where even somebody like me where normally I go like, yeah, it's not my thing. Like I can look at that and go like, okay, this looks really neat, man. They're doing some really cool stuff with this now too. Absolutely.

There's other things than just the details. There's, for example, the atmosphere of a game, the colors, the mood. So you can create with simple shapes. You can put an atmosphere into your game. And that in itself can be appealing. So, and what you see with 3D a lot is that this is a bit harder to control. Let's say an artist is painting something just directly,

painting, putting colors on the screen. They have a full control of what it looks like. They can decide at any moment, I want to have particles there, I want to have a reddish hue over here. And then it can create that mood exactly the way they imagine it. If you do 3D, you have to go through the rules of 3D, which is completely different. You have to put a light in there.

You have to use the sort of recreation of real life effects to get the result. And you change the lights, the bulbs somewhere somewhere and that changes the mood of the whole scene It's really hard to combine things in a way that you get exactly what you imagine and that that makes it harder for 3d Artists to create very specific looks and that's why they they've been challenged to do to do You know, it's funny how they 3ds try to do 2d look for so long They they they have this cell shading styles these lines outside of 3d the try to do 2D look for so long. They have these cell shading styles, these lines outside of 3D. They're desperate to recreate that crazy control

that 2D has, and 2D will always have that freedom that they can draw exactly what they want at any moment, and 3D doesn't have that freedom. So that's an advantage of traditional medium over 3D. It has been interesting to see that. And then we've been noticing just, you know, kind of in the gaming world, we've been seeing a lot of things coming back to that. We've been seeing almost this blend of 3D and 2D to where they're taking that kind of 2D look and they're creating depth with it by, you know, layering in. We had the guys from odd bug on and he was showing us his design software. And there was just, it was so interesting to see how they can stack this stuff up

to make something that is too deep, but so unique. And like I said, have that depth to it. Um, it's just been, you know, there's, there's all these games that they're, they're doing it with now and, and we're seeing it more and more. Is that also like something that you kind of like that approach in the way they're able to make those 2Ds even more unique? Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I'm with you.

And I think this is why 2D will never die, to be fair, because it's a source of inspiration even for 3D. Like 2D guys would explore new avenues and the 3Dd people be like, yeah, yeah, I find that interesting I'm gonna and bring that into But I think funny enough. I did a lot of 3d myself. Actually, I started in 3d before I did 2d So I was I studied architecture and I was using a 3d package back in the days and then when I graduated It's only after that I started looking into animation but I was essentially a 3D guy at first and I learned a lot from 3D. There's a way to approach lighting, to approach

colors and also comping the colors to make things look a certain way and I sort of transferred some of that understanding to the way I paint so when I draw characters I kind of separate layers in a way that 3D does it. And so sometimes I have students and they ask me about my approach to drawing. There's some very different approach. You could have like the sort of traditional painter approach, where you just pick the exact color that you want and you go with that. But my approach, for example, is a more layered and constructed

approach where you have a base color and then you got some light on top and some shading and then you add some effects on that you layer things on top. So that sort of layered approach is very much akin to a 3D approach and one is fitting the other, right? There's a back and forth between 3D and 2D and it's a good thing. It's a good thing. It's a neat mix. It's interesting. Again, I kind of talk about gamers and we don't really have a lot of idea. We just play the games that are in front of us

and we can kind of go, oh, this is pretty. But yeah, that kind of getting that look behind the scenes a little bit where it was like, here's a 2D rendering. And then he rotated it around and it was like, there were 12 different layers in this 2D rendering. And it was like, here's a 2D rendering. And then he rotated it around and it was like, there were 12 different layers in this 2D rendering. And it was like, this is how they do it. Yeah. And it's like, it's still too deep, but it's, it's just something almost completely different.

It's like its own thing, which is just, it's so interesting to see. Yeah. So we're going to get into, I want to talk about the animation side a little bit here in just a second, but we're going to take a quick break want to talk about the animation side a little bit here in just a second. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets.

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Rise to it with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. The credit card that rewards your good financial habits. Earn points for paying your credit card bill in full and on time every month. Level up from bill payer to reward slayer. Terms and conditions apply. All right. We are back chatting with psycho side, man. Oh, this is awesome. I love these glimpses into the talent that is, you know, that just exists out there and how that relates to gaming and just the, the skills, man, people have that go into these things.

I think people would love to know a bit more about about what the people would do those games, right? And how they do it, but we'll get to this. I'm sure Yeah, absolutely and this is why we've been trying to talk to various people like that work in gaming and try to get a glimpse and like What is this like behind the scenes? What what goes into these games that we get to play and experience and things like that. So let's talk about animation, because again, I think this is a really big blind spot for a lot of people.

It's one of those things where, you know, we talked about Prince of Persia. Like that was a game that absolutely you could tell that the animation in that game was just cutting edge for its time, that kind of thing. But do, and again, this, you know, we're kind of dumb here. We like to ask the questions that, you know, gamers brains come up with. But I, at least in my brain, like to me, art and animation kind of go hand in hand.

Like they are, I don't want to say one in the same, but like, if you are an animator, are you also an artist or are they sometimes exclusive where it's like an artist might like create something and say, hey, here's this character, this drawing. And then an animator who may not have an artistic bone in his body can take that and say, oh, okay, cool. Let me turn this into something that moves. So are they separate?

Are they together a lot of times? They can be separate, but I would say definitely an animator is also an artist. You have to look at animators, I think a little bit more like actors in movies, right? You would say of an actor that they are artists, right? They don't paint, they don't make music, they act, that's what they do. And that's what animators do. That's how often I describe it to people as an animator.

I'm like the actor on the set, except that instead of acting things live, it just takes hours and hours of drawing frames after frames to get the same result. But we kind of act things out. For example, when I have a shot to do, I just get off my chair, and then maybe I'll film myself. And I'll try to act out the scene to see how it is. So I become the actor and then I try to translate that into drawings. So yeah it's very much an art. Now however you don't need to draw necessarily, particularly since 3D in fact. Well if you're

doing 2D animation you need to know how to draw obviously. But if you're a 3D animator you know how to draw obviously. But if you're a 3D animator, you in the ideal scenario, you're given a character that's entirely set up rigged and in video games it's the same. You have to do these animations and the character could be prepared for animation and when you come in you have a like a sort of setup of tools to move the face, to move the arms and legs and that's when you come in and make everything move. And you don't need to draw at all. You may never have used a pencil before and still be a great, great animator.

But often it's understood that the principles of 2D animation that we've developed through the years early are simply translated into 3D and they learn the same lessons. They learn the same approach, the keyframe approach to animation is 12 principles of animation used in the US particularly. I'm French, so in France, we don't really talk about the 12 principles, it's a slightly different culture to animation, but we have a lot of animation schools here

and tons of animators around the world because they tend to travel a lot. I'm in London, I live in London, so I'm one of those French people who just export to themselves to someone else. That's awesome. So now, like, I love this stuff, I find it so interesting. So you mentioned, you know, you'll get up and you'll record yourself doing some movements for a scene and, you know, you become the actor to help you animate that, you that. Does that kind of go in line with, does this really take as long as we all think it takes? Are you really putting in that much time?

That time labor kind of that takes it just over and over so many hours. You mentioned a million hours. Is it really that involved? Yeah. If I, like if I want to do good animation, if you're talking about a scene where a lot is happening, it's not just the mouth moving, it will take me about a month to do about 10 seconds of animation. Oh my goodness. Whoa. And I'm not exaggerating.

A month for 10 seconds? Yes. That's one of the things that a lot of people don't understand, actually. It's funny. Just the average a lot of people don't understand. Actually, it's funny. Uh, uh, just the average viewer will associate animation with children often. And, uh, they tend to think that all these TV programs for children must be cheap. And it's everything but cheap. In fact, uh, the industry is huge for, for, for children, TV content and the teams and the studios that work on every episode that your children may watch on TV,

they cost a note for a lot of money because they take a lot of hands and a lot of people working on them, particularly 2D animation, but 3D animation too. The thing is that it's funny how because of 3D you think, Oh, you could save some time. Yes, it might take less time to animate one shot, but you still need to build the 3D environments, build the 3D object, and all of this is also extremely time consuming. So they found other ways to spend the money and their time so that the budget is entirely spent at the end of it. But yeah, 2D is extremely animation expensive. Think about if you love

a Disney movie, traditional, I don't know, you, you know, pick the lion king, for example, go on. We can say lion king. Go on Wikipedia and look how much it costs. And, uh, essentially, usually it's about a million dollars per minute film. That's the budget. Goodness. Yes, it is. Oh my goodness, man. Jeez, that is great. Oh my goodness, man. That is, jeez, that's wild. So is it safe to say that you need an awful lot of patience to be an animator? Yeah, a feature film would take something like 200 people

working for five years straight to put out a movie and spend an hour and a half, you know. Oh my goodness, man, wow. I never, yeah, that's, I never ever would have thought. I, you know, we, we always thought it was involved in it and it was very time consuming, but those, some of those numbers just are, are, are mind boggling. But I guess when you're going to do it and you have to do it right. And, and I know a lot of times, you know, artists are very particular about their art and they want it to be a certain way. So I'm sure that lengthens the process, but man, those numbers are just.

That's, it's funny because like, I think this was maybe one of those times when we're actually right in our thinking. Like, you know, my kids, both my kids love digital art. You know, they draw and procreate on their iPads. And, you know, I'm pretty proud. They're pretty good, man. So, you know, proud dad moment there too.

But, but one of my daughters kind of started to get into animating and I think it's the program Blender. If I remember right is on Steam and it's free and you can play around with that. And I remember her, you know, she really started to try to dive into some animating stuff. Cool. It took her, I feel like six hours to make like a T-Rex just roar. And that was it. And it was really neat, but I was just like, this took six hours. Like, oh my goodness. Like, does it really take this long? But it really does. Yeah. You have to be patient is key. Absolutely. Like if you want quick results, it's not a job for you. But I think we, we take an enormous amount of satisfaction in bringing to life a drawing. I don't know what it is. We'll, we'll accept to do that.

We'll accept to spend days and hours on just a few frames and then we'll be just so happy to see it move. I don't know what it is. It's the magic of it. I think it is. I mean, I think that's why we see something. You mentioned kind of the sketch drawing, right, where it's simple and it's, but I almost think like our brains kind of imagine what that could be, you know, as far as like, we kind of fill in the blanks in a sense.

And my brain might fill it in a different way than your brain does. And I think that's sometimes why the simplicity can be such a good thing. I would love to ask about this because you mentioned, I don't know that you use the terms good and bad, but you mentioned like a simple animation with just like a mouth moving versus like a whole character.

And so one of these things that we get are the, I'm just gonna call it good animation versus bad animation. And I've seen, you've done some anime characters on your Instagram and things like that. And so this is something where I think when we kind of switch from gaming to anime, that a lot of people do actually say the animation in this is so good.

Like Demon Slayer, I'm a fan of Demon Slayer. I like it. And one of those reasons is my daughter, who's a huge anime fan and I watch it with her, has even said, dad, the animation in Demon Slayer is so good. Like you're gonna love it. And then we've watched some other anime and it's like, okay, well the animation in this one isn't so good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not throwing any shade, but you know, you can tell the difference in the quality. So when we think about good animation and bad animation, so to speak, what is the qualifier? Is it just the smoothness of the motion? Not so much, actually. Yeah, yeah.

Is it like a camera angle that maybe they did an animation in a unique perspective or something like that? But what's that difference? Yeah, there's quite a few sort of parameters that you can look at that make animation a good animation. Like in video games particularly, I think one of the things that made Street Fighter II

exceptional was the quality of the animation. Because the designs were amazing already. But the way they moved, the impact, the weight, and that was very good animation work. It made you feel the power of the characters and how they moved around. So it had not only style, but it had personality. So I think what makes a good animation

is first is a good drawing. If you have a good drawing, you've got a good start. But you can have also a simple drawing or a drawing that's on purpose made to look a little bit unpleasant or even ugly. But you can have a great animation behind it. Again, the animation will be delivering the acting, will be delivering the personality of the characters. Now, the second key factor is the keyframes, actually. So having good posing. Think about body language. Are you saying something? How are you saying it? What are your shoulders doing? What are your hands doing? How's your face looking? So you need to pose your character in a good way. So good keyframes is already half of the way there

with a good design. So you could have, on the process of making the animation you start by those keyframes or some rough Thumbnails as we call them if they're well made you can see the animation already You can feel the character already, even though it's not smooth. There's no in-betweening So it's just very choppy animation But the posing is so good that you feel the characters emotions already and that's already a good start then the in-between process is a matter of Making it more or less polished if you want. It's like Fine-tuning your animation and that depends a long budget They would have a money it'll be like okay i'm gonna animate this 24 frames per second

So for every second you're gonna have 24 drawings and if you have 10 characters in the screen That's 10 times 24 drawings, you know, that's that's the way So if you have the money, okay, but you don't you know making TV series for for Netflix Maybe you don't have a huge budget. So You're gonna have to pick and choose and that's why Japanese people studios have been good at for all these years they'll give you some very simple shots to tell the story and with a minimum of animation. And when it becomes important,

you'll have an action scene or something emotional happening, then they bring in the best animators, right? And they'll give them all the money and the time that they need to make those scenes count. And in a video game you get a little bit of that too. You know the thing is it's a bit different because a video game you have your character moving around and you're going to see that jump, that run, that slide again and again and again. So you need to nail that, you need to make that look really really good as much as

you can. So there's a lot of attention that is put on these little scenes more even than maybe on a TV series or something like that. And so we've got a few animations, but that still takes an awful lot of work. So smoothness is important. It helps sort of giving you that premium look. But I think what's important is good key framing and good drawing is really the essential thing, quality.

That's awesome. So now with, you know, we had mentioned that you did the Katy Perry video with the animations there. Did you kind of put those kind of things to effect in that one? Is that how you went against that? Absolutely, yes. We had three months to make three minutes essentially, which is horribly short. And so I kind of kept the animation like as simple as possible for most of the shots. And right from the beginning,

there are some shots that are more interesting. There's a dragon in there. There's a dancing scene. There's different things that definitely take more attention. There's a transformation scene right at the beginning, where a very anime inspired thing where she's a witch, turns herself into a little dress and she jumps on a little broom to fly off. So there was a lot of references to anime in there.

And yeah, that approach was very similar. We're going to like, maybe 90% of the shots are actually quite simple. The characters don't move too much. There's not much happening. But when it's important, we put more time in it. So I could spend a couple of days or a day or two on one simple shot and we'll spend a whole week on that one, on a few seconds for that one shot. That's important. Um, yeah. So since we're talking about the Katy Perry video,

because I'm very curious about this and I think a lot of our listeners would be as well. When, when, when you get, you know, hired to do that, so to speak, and, and you know, somebody famous says, Hey, I want you to animate one of my music videos. Number one, I have to assume that's like a, Oh, this is you to animate one of my music videos. Number one, I have to assume that's like, oh, this is super cool moment for you number one. And then like, how does that work? I mean, do they have like,

are you going back and forth and saying, here's my idea, what do you think? Is there feedback? Because like, I know my wife is an artist and I know sometimes criticism as an artist is very hard to take for people, because it's like, this is how I express myself. And when somebody criticizes my work, that can be tough.

Yeah, you have to accept that. It's important to understand that you're working for a client at the end of the day, if that's what you're doing. And you need to listen to them and give them what they're looking for. So this back and forth is always there normally, and it can be quite a lot of back and forth before things really start being produced. This design phase, if you want. In the Katy Perry scenario, it was quite different. In

fact, it was a very interesting and unique moment in time. It was right at the beginning of the pandemic that it happened. So essentially for the music industry from one day to the next they couldn't put people together to do a typical music video where people are dancing. That was not happening anymore. So a lot of studios turned to animation and that's the cool thing. They were like, oh, we're gonna use animators. They can work from home.

They can do some really cool animated music videos, which was great. It just kinda was amazing for the animation world. So a lot of artists decided to do that. And that year, it was not just that. Katy Perry was pregnant. And she wanted to release a new album and give birth on the same day. All right that's crazy and she did. So she planned it all that was crazy right she didn't manage to make one of the music videos for

a new album early in the year. She was heavily pregnant I don't know if you've seen the video she's made a music video heavily pregnant and then then for the rest of the videos, she had time for another video where she played into and everything else was going to be animated. So they made one 3D animation in which they put a lot of money in. Definitely a bigger team. And okay, they went for a big studio and they splashed out and then they still had like 10 other videos to make or something like how are we gonna do this so they had a budget they split it out and they went for this strategy I said well we're gonna we're gonna say we want different styles and we're gonna ask

you to pitch for it but because of the limited limited amount of time it was a matter of she received the pitches and she was like, okay, I'm gonna pick that one, that one, that one, that one, and just do it. So they could, I was contacted by this partisan, which was an animation studio in contact with Katy Perry. And they asked me if I wanted to pitch and I said, yeah, that'd be interesting. You got one week. It's like, no time. Okay, I like to come up with ideas. They gave me five pieces of music. And I said, you could pitch for all of them.

I said, okay, I'll pitch for all of them. So I made five pitches in a week and very short, just one little page, one little drawing concept essentially. And I had a favorite one and it was a cry about it later. I was like, I'd be nice to get that one. And that's the one I got. And then asked me, how many can you make? I was like, just one is enough. I just barely enough time. So I was like, no, no, I can only do one. So and the funny thing is I was working on another music video already for another artist,

a British artist. And, uh, I kind of had to jump out from that project into the Katy Perry one. Cause I was like, I really want to do this. And I was going to, I was going to direct it. I was going to do all the designs and it was my concept. I came up with a story and, and, and Katy Perry is very easygoing, honestly. And it's, it's, it's been the easiest. One of the easiest projects I've had to work on. And I think she was aware of the lack of time, because there was no room for back and forth.

But she did ask for a few things to be changed, and we did it, and every time I suggested something new, she was like, yeah, that's fine. And so it was pretty easy. So yeah, that was very exciting and she managed to release all these music videos and On the day that she gave birth she released the album. She gave birth That's a big thing and she released my video. That was cool. So as mine Those are those things that behind the scenes that you don't know about man That's such a cool thing. So I'm still stuck. I want to go back a little teeny bit to where you were talking about, you know, 10 characters on there by 24 frames a second, you know, with how many drawings that actually entails, you know, as technology advances and we're seeing kind of

the advancement of motion capture and how far it's come. You know they're doing everything from people to animals you know all everything's getting motion captured now which I personally I love watching but does that um does it lose some of that artistic feel for you and like like what are your thoughts on the kind of the whole motion capture part of it? I'm okay as long as what you're looking for is some realism. I think that's the objective. By recording reality, you get that extra realism. It's a similar thing to Prince of Persia.

You get that realism of motion. It was the same thing because you're tracing real footage. So I don't mind that. I think this is one direction that you can take. And the thing is that you have to explore it in a way, all the way to the end, see how realistic you can get. And once you get there, then you pull back, you come back and you go like, yeah, that was interesting. But how about we go back to using animators to do this? Because animators have a different way to stylize motion.

Actually, it's not just about stylizing the look of things or the colors, but there's a way to stylize motion. Actually, it's not just about stylizing the look of things or the colors, but there's a way to move. Like Disney characters move in a certain way. Anime characters move in a certain way. Yeah, think about theater. Theater, they have a way of talking and a way of moving around the stage to make themselves visible, right?

And that was translated into cinema when cinema came along after theater. They were just acting like a theater, but on screen and it was kind of overacted, you know, and very loud. And we don't do this anymore. We, we, there was after that, there was a phase of realism where we'd first shift people as if they were normal people and they would use actors that were not actors

so that they would play normally and not overplay things. This is whole thing where we kind of change styles. So I think it's okay, it's fine. Let's go, let's explore realism and motion capture, and then we'll come back afterwards. It's okay. I can't help but think because this is something you touched on

and it's really kind of opened in my eyes a little bit to something. And I just think this is fascinating. But when we were talking about pixel art versus like very realistic graphics and stuff, you kind of touched on the same thing that you can only go so far in realism before it just looks real. Exactly. I mean, I mean, motion capture is kind of the same way, right? Like, yes, you can get somebody that looks like a human that is running or a horse in the way that they gallop and you

can put that in a video game and cool. Now you have a very realistic horse that is running, but there's only so much like realism is going to cap out at it. It's real. It's perfect. And I love. Yeah. I love that you kind of brought this up where, you know, we can go that direction, but it's capped. But when you aren't going for realism and you are going for artistic and you are going for these different animation styles and flares

and things like that, this is where you get to have these really unique expressions in a game or art styles that stand out to people or even the way things move in a game to say, hey, this is, you know, yes, it's not realistic, but look what we can do with it, you know? And I don't think that's something that a lot of people think about. to say, hey, this is, yes, it's not realistic, but look what we can do with it. And I don't think that's something

that a lot of people think about. And I just find it fascinating to see, yes, we can push the boundaries, but we're going to pull back at some point, too. That's right. We want to go back to style. I think about Batman, the anime series or animated. Yeah.

It's certainly not about being realistic. It's those sharp angles, those bold moves, those bold colors in contrast. There's appeal in that. So we don't want to lose that. Nobody wants to lose this. So if you don't have it, then eventually you'll go back to that as well. But yeah, I want to go see that look again. There's all these, these different things. They come and go with fashion, right? And then fashion comes back as well. Same, same animation that comes back. So pixel art, I'm sure will always come back. Bell bottoms and big jeans are back again.

All right. So Saika-san, let's talk about your artwork for a second because it is spectacular, man. We're gonna include a link to your Instagram page in this episode description. But I mean, I don't say this lightly, but like it's really good, man. We're going to include a link to your Instagram page in this episode description. But I mean, I don't say this lightly, but like, it's really good, man. Like obviously you've made this your career. You've made this your passion. Um, you're here on, you know,

our show talking about it, but I love the style that you have. I love just the things that you create. But one of these things that I struggle with is the, like, do you, you know, trying to get into the mind of an artist, so to speak, like, when you, do you see things like in your brain and then you're able to just kind of put them on paper? You know, my wife, for instance, she's a good artist,

but she has to have a reference, right? She's not like creative. She can't just come up with something on her own, but if has to she has to have a reference, right? She's not like creative. She can't just come up with something on her own. But if you show her something, she can absolutely take that and then kind of make it her own and change it up and go, cool, this gave me a good reference point. Yeah. So how does it work for you? Like, how do you create something from nothing as an artist?

It's a very good question. Actually, it's a it's a very topical question at this time, because I don't know if you've heard about a Fantasia, I think it's called a Fantasia. I've heard of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's essentially been discovered about three years ago. I know exactly what this is and it's fascinating. Yeah. It's basically people, we've discovered that some people cannot picture things in their minds. They can't just form a picture in their mind.

And that seems incredible because most people do, if I ask you to picture a beach and you say, try to relax, imagine that you're on a beach side or something. And these people were never able to do that. But when they heard people say this, they thought it was a metaphor. You know, it was not, they didn't actually really ask you to do this.

It was just a way of speaking. But it's been discovered that there's a spectrum essentially on how good you can be at just picturing things in your mind. And I don't know if it's something that you're born with or if it's something that you can train. I really don't know, to be fair, I don't think there's enough data for that. But I can, to answer your question, I can usually visualize what I wanna draw before I draw it. Now, it's not perfect, it's not in every detail, but I've got a pretty good idea where it's supposed to be.

So I play in my mind, I sort of move things around, I can construct different illustrations, drawings, and until I find something that I like. So different versions will go through my mind before I committed to drawing. Some other artists I know will have a different approach. They'll have to draw all these poses and they'll fill up pages of different things

until it looks right. Now I don't use many references either, but I think that comes with a lot of practice. I've been drawing and observing a lot through my life, so I can dive into this and use those references that I've acquired to draw confidently without necessarily using a reference. But I will occasionally stumble upon a position or something

that I'm just not comfortable with. For example, I don't draw many animals. So if I had to draw a lion today, I was like, okay, what's, what's a lion's paw like exactly? I had an idea, but I was like, okay, let's double check. And I went and found some references and I'll work with that. So yeah, I still use references now. And then for sure. I love it, man. That's just a neat glimpse into people like I can. And this aphantasia thing I thought was fascinating when people started figuring it out. And somebody asked, like, you know, close your eyes and imagine an apple. And it was like, cool, I totally see this red apple.

I can spin it around in my head and all that. And then one of our very good friend of ours was like, what do you mean? You see an apple? And I was like, yeah, close your eyes and see it. And he was like, no, I get like the idea of an apple, but I can't actually picture the apple. And we were like, what are you talking about? And then come to find out there's a lot of people.

And that, that also just shows how, um, the variations just in, in life and in art are too, because you said a red apple, I pictured a green apple, right? And that shows how just different everyone's perspective is and how they are and how they look at art in the world and stuff. But so, you know, you had mentioned about, you know, university and stuff back then for, for was that, did you go to school for animation? Like, where did you get started? When did you kind of realize you wanted to do this? And this is going to be a career and you wanted to pursue it? Like, what was that kind of process?

Like, yeah, uh, it's funny. I often come back to, like, it started when I had a little conversation with my mom when I was a kid. And I was saying to my mom, uh, mom, why are you watching anime? Why are you watching cartoons? They're great. And then she was like, she told me something like, uh, when you grow up, you'll stop watching cartoons. And I was, I was, she was like, she told me something like, when you grow up, you'll stop watching cartoons. And I was, I was, I was like, no, why just call it anime now. Why would I ever stop loving animation?

Anyway, that stayed with me. And but I never thought I could actually be an animator. It's something that in my family, there aren't many artists, to be fair, I was the first one to explore that sort of avenue. So I went to architecture because I was also a little bit of a science geek guy and then it was a bit both together and I did a bit of maths and physics. And architecture, I decided that by the end of it, I was like, this was fun, but I don't want to have a career in architecture. It's not, just not for me. So during the last year of my studies, I kind of spent a bit of time making a

short film with a friend I having no idea where that was going before fun and we mixed 3d and 2d. So we had 3d backgrounds 3d Spacecrafts and 2d character in it Mixing techniques already. It was a lot of fun And that's when I realized hang on. There's got to be it's got to be a way a path into Career, you know, there's got to be a way, a path into a career, you know, that's never considered before. So I looked into animation schools and that's when I realized that there were some good

animation schools in France and some of those have an international reputation. But I went into a small school, a young one, that was teaching filmmaking in animation more than just animating exactly. So I learned about storyboarding, writing scripts, thinking about music, comping things together as much as I learned about animating characters. So that was a very well-rounded approach to animation which I really, really enjoyed. That was for about two years, but still that was the beginning for me. I felt like I learned a lot during my career.

I really improved my animation techniques. So it's something I'm still evolving. And I'm teaching today a lot, but I feel like it's interesting things to go on the teaching side because you have to theorize things a little bit. You have to explain to other people how to do it. And that forces you to have a different perspective

on your own work. That was interesting for me and it's a good thing too. So I see I keep learning and I hope I will do that for another 20 years hopefully. Yeah, absolutely. And so like I have a quick one too. Like you mentioned, you know, the kind of one of your first real animations you did with your friend and stuff. Now with all the characters you've created in your career and

films you've done and all the stuff that you've made, Josh and I were fathers, we got kids. We love our kids, but we love them differently. Do you have all your creations, do you just have a love for them all or do you have one that's a certain favorite that you're always drawn to that resonates with you the best or or how does that work? That's a good question. Yeah, it's a bit like with children. I don't have children myself, but choosing your favorite drawings a bit feels a bit cruel. Yeah, exactly.

Like, you know, you feel bad for the other ones. No, it's funny, sometimes I go back to some old drawings and I look at them and I'm like, oh, I still love that one, it's great. So it's not just the latest ones, honestly, the best ones for me, it's funny enough. I appreciate different things in different drawings because it's like an exploration thing. You're like, here's a new drawing,

I'm gonna try something with this one, I haven't tried before. And every drawing has a little bit of a story to it, something that it brings to my career as well. And I think the things I'm most proud of, they'll remain little bits of animations. So throughout my career, I've done jobs. And that's interesting.

I wait for someone. They ask me to do this, and I do it. I can be proud of it, but it's never quite exactly what I wanna do. So I did between jobs because I'm a freelancer and I've got sometimes no work and I'm okay with it because it's a great opportunity for me to be like, okay, I'm gonna make what I want to

and paint what I want to. And then I can just express myself and do just what I want. And these are the best bits of fine for me that I enjoy the most. I did this little animation of like a Lord of the Rings scene with the wizard and the, I forget his name, Gandalf that's against the Balrog and the bridge. I just wanted to animate that scene and it's five seconds long or not even there. I did a little fight between Ryu and Chin Lee just for fun. Nice.

I'll just play with these scenes and make them look as cool as possible. At the end of the day, these helped me get better jobs because I was pushing my skills. I was showing off my personal style as well. And I discovered that people like that and got me more work. So it was a good, good investment to good use of my time, I think at the end of the day. How awesome, Josh, like, could you imagine like, I can't even

fathom, just being a little bored. I'm like, I just going to animate, you know, Gandalf and Balrog fighting. Dude, my brain is totally, I'm already thinking of these like epic fights that I would make people have, you know, like, oh my goodness, man. I can think of some songs where it's like, dude, this too, like, like a fight scene would be incredible. Oh, right. I know, right. Oh man. So listen, we're, we're starting to run out of time here, but we did promise this topic early on. And honestly, I think it's a fantastic topic. I know that there are a lot of strong opinions

on the use of AI art and kind of the emergence of AI and how that affects artists specifically. I mean, I think it ties into art primarily in the sense that people that have these very strong opinions of it, I think it's tied to art because people that say, hey, AI use of art is very wrong because it is taking samples of people's artwork and it is plagiarizing those. It is, you know, stealing that art and then it's kind of compiling it together. I think people that are for it are just going, it's a really easy way for me to get something

that I wouldn't pay somebody for to commission or something like that because it's a simple use of something. So, you know, being that this is a very intimate topic for you as an artist and an animator, what are your thoughts on the use of like AI art? Yeah, yeah, no, it's true. It's a very hot topic at the moment and it will be for a while. I think now I have to agree with the idea that the way it was created by essentially scraping the internet of all this art and using this and clearly people are using this to make money. Now I can see that everywhere. It's a bit heartbreaking. It's a bit of a shame for sure. And it feels like we can't, there's not much we can do

to stop it. I think you're not going to see big production companies doing that just yet because they're too exposed. But there's tons of little independent businesses that will use that there's tons of little independent businesses that will use that shamelessly and make money from that. It's a bit of a shame for sure. At the same time, I think AI is amazing, you know, in other ways, it's a great progress and I think it will bring a lot of good stuff. So I'm worried, obviously, I think it will take the jobs of quite a few of us, for sure. I think it will take the jobs of quite a few of us, for sure. But I'm also pretty confident that it's not going to make artists disappear at all. I don't think so. One of the things I like to take as an example is the fact that we have

an interest in what people do. It's one thing that a machine can do this or do that. And we impressed the first time a machine can fly. It's one thing that a machine can do this or do that. And we impressed the first time a machine can fly. It's amazing. And then then nowadays everybody gets on a plane and it's fine. But, um, if someone goes out and built a little bike with little wings and managed to fly with his own energies, people will be like, we'd be amazed. Not because you can fly.

We can go to the moon. It's because it's a human performance. Right. And that's why we put tens of thousands of people in stadiums to see Not because you can fly, we can go to the moon. It's because it's a human performance, right? And that's why we put tens of thousands of people in stadiums to watch people who run around a ball, you know, it is right. Yeah. Why do we do this?

Because it's the human performance. We, we love to see people do things that are interesting. Right. And I think it doesn't matter if a computer can draw an amazing picture and make an amazing picture and make an amazing film. We'll be like, yeah, great. I'll play the game. It sounds fun. I'll watch that movie. It sounds fun. But when a guy comes along and does something beautiful, you'll still be like, wow, this is amazing. You'll still be able to measure that it's a great achievement that an

artist can do this, paint this, paint that. So I think we'll keep an interest for what human made things are. I think we can absolutely tell already when something is made with AI. We're starting to see these AI videos now and it's like, dude, these are getting more and more lifelike and it's kind of scary in a way. But at the same time, I think we're very much able to go, oh, this was totally made with AI. And maybe it gets to a point where we can't tell. That's the scary part to me. But I do think that there's this, I call it sterile, right?

There's this sterile feel to AI art or video or something like that where I think we can just inherently feel that. And we know that that creativity or passion is just missing. AI art or video or something like that, where I think we can just inherently feel that. And we know that that like creativity or like passion is just missing, you know? And I think people can sense that a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

It feels a bit soulless, right? Yeah, exactly. Soulless is a rather really great term. And I think we pick up on that easily too. Oh, absolutely. I was going to tell a quick story too about with AI and the creation of art because my son, he's eight now, but when he was a lot younger, we watched the movie, animated movie Cars a ton and they have Toemator and then Star Wars, big Star Wars fans, we had Darth Vader. And so my son always called him, you know, Mater, like Darth Mater. And so um, you know, Mater, like Darth Mater. And so, uh, I had Josh create me an AI quick, real quick art thing of, of a Darth Mater. It looked like Mater with, you know, as Darth Vader.

And it was awesome. And it was something that we could do on the spot, but it didn't, there wasn't that, that kind of almost story or history behind an artist creating it. It was cool to see, it was something we laughed at, but there wasn't anything that you resonated with. So again, like I love that there was an soul to it. So it was something we saw had fun with and kind of passed on. And you know, you don't have that connection like with an actual commissioned artist or something like that. So I do think that, um, well, AI can make some fun stuff if it's used kind of in that fun campy way, like a true artist, there, there is that feeling in that bond with that

art. Yeah, I agree. But at the same time, I feel like it's, um, with time things, AI will get better at doing things like this. And it's, it's all also, it's about all about who prompts the AI to do something. I think if there's a way to prompt AI, that will make some interesting content. And I do follow on social media some AI creators because they use it in a way that would not be viable by normal artists. The way they produce some imagery that would each one of them

would take so much time. You would not see that kind of content already just done by humans because it's too much work. And that in a way, if they do it in an interesting way, you get something interesting out of it, right? And that's cool. So I think it's about who does it and how they direct the AI to do something interesting. So I think it's OK. AI can produce something interesting as long as there's a direction behind it. Also, it has a lot of, like you said, you know, with your child, you can go out and create something. So, for example, I had a friend who had this card game project

and he can't draw and he wanted to sell this card game project to publishers and used AI to generate different card looks and styles for his card project. And yeah, it's great. You get sort of a preview of what it could be and that's very, very handy to be able to do that. With the project, if the project gets made, then you hire an artist to create the final visuals. I think that kind of use is fine. In animation as well, you'll see clients coming with a pitch. Usually they'll be saying, I want something a bit like this, and they might have a

reference or something. Nowadays, they've already generated graphics and I want it to look like this, and they give you this AI reference feels a little bit insulting. You're like, come on, you know, what are you doing? And it's kind of weird because they come up with this very sort of amazingly crafted thing in a way and you're like, I can't animate this and that this is beyond human, like it was certainly not in your budget that you, you, you want to. So many years you have. Yeah, exactly.

So there's, there's some funny situations like this, um, but, um, but I can see the use of it nonetheless, I think it's, it's getting more and more and more used and it can be good. Um, but I, I do worry that it will shrink the industry at some point. Uh, and then people can, will be able to do art, but may not be so many people that can make a living out of it. I don't know, it will be different. So this is a good question and I know we're almost running out of time here.

So do you think like with the use of AI, you know, I know that there's a big backlash, especially with artists, like my family, my kids and my wife refuse to even look at it. Like they're because they are artists and they are like, dude, I don't want to look at this. I don't think people should be using it, you know, because they're like, because it's taking away from like our talent, you know, like this is a talent

that we have and they're very, very against it. But at the same time, I think that there's also this, it's not going away, you know,. Humans are going to keep using this. We're going to keep refining it. So do you think, is there a world where, especially for artists and animators, that AI can become a tool, like another brush, so to speak, where it's like, hey, we can accept this.

We can figure out ways to use this to help us. Or do you think that's just crossing that line, and it's like, no, this needs to stay out of art completely. I think it will be interesting when you have a good interface to work with. So imagine a proper Photoshop kind of application that has really good tools that you can really use to craft something with AI. Right now it's kind of prompting a bit of text and then you kind of hope that it will give you something good. And once when it gives you something, there's not much

that you can do to change it. And there's a difficulty to create something that's consistent. So for example, for me, maybe if I wanted to use it, let's say we're in the future now and AI is really easy to use and it can do anything you want. Well, what I would probably do is that I would probably design my own characters, still draw them, and I could use AI to say, hey, can you refine my drawing? Just make it look a bit better. And I would say I want more contrasted colors, something, and I could say exactly what I want. And I could say the AI just do a 3D model of this. And then I could go in there and then draw over it to fix things

I don't like the belt here. I'm just gonna do that and then it kind of integrates this into it and it would be Seamless if and then I would be like, okay now I'm gonna do a little storyboard. I'm gonna make it simple do very quickly Some thumbnails that give it a good idea of the story and I could just give that to the AI and kind of generate with my style what I designed and create a story that I want to see. It would be quite satisfying and a kind of quick way to get to something that looks good without too much work. And I understand that if everybody can do this then how do you make money from it? It's another question but I think a lot of people could create their own content that way as well.

That would be interesting, I think. It's hard to imagine everything we could do. But I could see myself use it if I was born with it and still want to draw and still use it at the same time. I think it could be interesting. Yeah. So I mean, this is fascinating stuff, man. And I really appreciate the look.

I mean, this is something that I know, even in our own gaming community, we've had a lot of discussion on the use of AI art and stuff like that. And I know it's a topic that we don't really get insight into from people like yourself that do this for a living and have done this and are obviously super, super talented with it as well.

We are almost out of time, so we're gonna start wrapping things up. But one of the things that we always love to ask is, is there a project, is there a cause, is there something that you are working on or that you are passionate about that you wanna share with people that we could help that with?

Oh, well, I don't know. This could be a little bit political. I don't know if you want that on your show, but it's because I'm sort of reacting to what's happening in the news. And one of the things I want to do is to encourage artists to speak up a little bit, not honestly in a controversial way or in an aggressive way, but to sort of take a stand a little bit on what their values are. Because I think it would be good if more people were less shy about saying what they want

out of the world and out of politics a little bit. So that it could be a bit more common to say, I want people to help each other, for example. I want people to have a bit more common to say, I want people to help each other, for example. I want people to have a bit more, um, sharing the wealth or protecting the planet or these sort of things. So I sort of created this, this look, uh, where, um, people wear a red glove and it's a thing that on your Instagram, it's like a thumbs down thing to protest a little bit against abuses and about bad politics if you want

And to encourage people to have To say that to say out loud without being too controversial So it's trying to find the lines that you don't get too much Heat in return or too much backlash. So that's my little project at the moment. I started this a couple of weeks ago and I'm going to try to encourage people to do this. This is purely a social media sort of challenge that I created. On Instagram you can create these art challenges and people kind of get on with it if they find it interesting. It's a way of interacting with your community on social media. Otherwise I still had this project that I had last year.

I had this project called Blue. And it was a project of short film that I tried to launch on Kickstarter. Because as you know now, animation is expensive. I needed a lot of money to do this. And I tried to put the bar high. And that was high high relatively high, let's say, and I was trying to get to a certain amount of money and I was like,

it's going to fall short. So I kind of stopped the campaign midway, but I did spend like a year to build up to this, but the project is still there. And I'm thinking maybe I will turn this into a comic book or something like this in the future. Um, yeah. So is the Kickstarter still functional?

Like, could we include a link to the Kickstarter? No, the's awesome. Yeah. So is the Kickstarter still functional? Like could we include a link to the Kickstarter? No, the Kickstarter was actually a year ago. So, but it's still up. You can still look at the project if you're interested and check it out and see what it's about. It's a bit about AI, it's about sci-fi, it's about students trying to build an AI actually

and trying to talk about this topic. So yeah. This is awesome. All right. Well, we have to check out this a little bit more. And so if you, if you, if you decide to bring this project back into the forefront for you, absolutely let us know because we will, we would love to help shout that out and kind of get that in front of people as well. And the teasers, I mean, we're going to put all your information in, you know,

the description on everything, but the teasers for Blue are all over your YouTube, which shout out to your YouTube also. Everyone listening should definitely go check it out because along all these other animations you have on there, you have tutorial processes on designing and, you know, I was watching a lot of your videos and they were so interesting and I'm'm, I'm a competent, slightly competent artist, but I found them so fascinating. So anyone is going to love them. So everybody should definitely go check those out as well. Thanks a lot. Yeah, man.

This has been awesome, man. I wish we could just keep going, but you know, we got to wrap things up at some point and we want to be respectful of your time as well. Psycho-san, I mean, we cannot thank you enough for just taking time out of your day to hop on with us, to give us a glimpse into the world of animation art, what the mind of a fantastic artist is like, and to just give us that peek behind the curtain. So I mean, thank you so much for taking time

to just kind of hang out with us, man. had a great time guys you're amazing and always loved talking about animation so that was great thanks for the opportunity to share a little bit more and to let people know about what animators do. And for everybody it's S Y K O S A N when you're searching it's Psycho-San so we're gonna leave we're gonna leave a couple links in the episode description too, to absolutely kind of let people see how amazing your talent is.

Sweet. Awesome. Fantastic, thanks guys. Psycho-San, thank you so much once again. Honestly man, this has been fantastic. That's gonna do it for this episode. Thank you everybody for tuning in and learning a little bit more about the gaming industry and art and animation. We hope you enjoyed this.

That's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time, happy gaming! See ya!