Video Gamers Podcast - The Heart of Indie Art: 5 Indie Titles Where Art Drives the Game – Gaming Podcast

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Gaming hosts Josh, Ryan, and John explore five indie video games where bold visual design doesn’t just stand out—it shapes the entire gameplay experience. Join us for a gaming packed episode as we dive into: The psychedelic recursion of Ultros Grim bureaucracy and slick animation in Have a Nice Death Cartoon chaos with Pizza Tower Moody isometric storytelling in Death’s Door Retro-scientific survival in Abiotic Factor From trippy time loops to low-poly horror, these video games prove that when it comes to indies, style is substance. All the gaming news you need, each and every week from the Video Gamers Podcast! Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Disratory, Ol’ Jake, Gaius, and Phelps Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Community: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/  Follow us on X: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod  Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VideoGamersPod?sub_confirmation=1   Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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They say you should never judge a book by its cover, but they never said anything about video games. I am your host Ace, and joining me, he's a connoisseur of the refined world of indie games and their many art styles. It's John. Hey, I have to say, have you ever not judged a book by its cover? You know, honestly, when they all look the same

at this point, that's like the primary thing I judge. I guess. They all have the same art styles. That's true, that's true. Maybe this is just me coming from the CD shopping era of this world, but I absolutely judge everything by its cover, including books. Oh, the cooler the CD cover was,

you're like, yep, this is the one. Yeah, exactly. Just thinking about it though, the books, all of them look exactly the same, and they all have the same three words in them, like cursed, prints, thorns, roses. Yeah. Okay, I get it.

Yeah. We now know what kind of books you read. No, not okay, wait a minute. All right, I messed up. I've made a mistake. I got what I do. Got him. And of course, his artistic prowess

ended back in kindergarten, where the closest he ever got to painting a masterpiece was a finger-painted hand turkey. It's Ryan. Ha ha. That's low, man, because I did do one of those, and it was really good. Ha ha ha.

Also, I am no Picasso, but I'm an okay artist, man. You are. I just like to poke fun at you. I know, I know. It's great. And watching you squirm about hand. It's great. That was a solid one. And watching you squirm about hand turkey is pretty great. Hand turkey. That was a good throwback because my son just did one of those, like, you know, they always

do them every year, you know, when they're little, so. Oh, yeah. Did you lie to him and tell him it looked good? Oh, yeah. Let me put it on the fridge. Dude, the amount of art my kid brings home when my wife tries to save, I'm like, what are you going to do with this? One, this is horrible.

Two, you know how much we already have? We have a wall that's covered. I'm like, honey, we gotta rotate these out and just kind of discard the old ones. Yeah, exactly. This is a rotating collection. That's the thing is that kids are like little hoarders, man. I mean, like they just wanna keep every little thing

and it just ends up being in a box forever. And... Yep. Yeah, now, my mom, she's got everything I've ever drawn or made somewhere in the attic in a tote. And she, like, will bring them out to me and show them to me. It's like, you remember when you made this? Like, no, I don't. Why do you have that?

What, that was me? That's horrible. Yeah. You should have thrown that away and told me to do better. Why do you have that? What, that was me? That's horrible. Yeah. You should have thrown that away and told me to do better. This is why I prefer dogs to kids. Like dogs don't hoard things and if you ever get tired of them, you can just eat them.

What? There you go. All right. That's a joke everyone, before you start blowing up the comments. That is a joke, I like dogs. They are delicious. That John guy joke, everyone, before you start blowing up the comments. That is a joke. I like dogs. That jar guy in the podcast, my least favorite. He wants to eat dogs.

Join the club. Yeah. But guys, we've got a very exciting episode today. The artistic intros were not just for fun. They have very much to do with our topic, where we're talking about indie games and how their art styles really help them stand out amongst, you know, all the triple A games and things like that. One of the things we've always pointed out is how two things

make indie games truly unique. And that's the music and the art style. Do you guys have any indie games particular that always stood out to you because of the art style? And maybe you wouldn't even picked it up if you didn't see that art style first? Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing this right, but Gris, GRIs? Oh yes, yeah yeah yeah yeah. Oh what a poetically beautiful visual game. I mean that is like candy, visual candy. Absolutely gorgeous. I probably wouldn't have ever picked it up if not for the art style. And it turns out it's a freaking blast of a game.

Just gorgeous. Journey would be another one. Journey's a great one, yeah. Yeah, it's a good one. There's certainly one on the list that you have here that would qualify for that. But I don't know, I think one of the strongest appeals for indie for me is the diversity of art styles. They don't know. I think one of the strongest appeals for indie for me

is the diversity of art styles. They don't need to go for realism because they can portray a realistic world through that art style. And that's really says something about the quality of the games they put out. Yeah. At least to me.

Starting off though, I want to talk about a little game called Ultros. Yeah. Yeah, Ultros. Yeah. Yeah. Ultros is fantastic if you've never played it, but Ultros has a very psychedelic neon punk world that you can explore and it's a, a Metroidvania. But the art style makes you would trick you into believing, uh, it's a more violent Metroidvania than it is.

Oh, hmm. I never played Ultros. Ultros is a Metroidvania that has very little combat, basically. There is combat, but it's a very light element. There's way more to it. It's a time loop that you're going through, where the goal is not to beat the bosses and destroy the planet and the enemies and things like that.

It's to reconnect the world with the nature around it. Oh, okay, that's unique. You don't know that until, you know, you've already killed some things. You're gonna feel really bad about it. So what you're saying is you just spoiled the game for everybody who might be interested in playing this. Thank you, Ace.

Yeah, you know what, you've had time. Yeah. Yeah. It's over, time's up. You know what this reminds me of is, uh, if you're like an eighties kid and, uh, you know, that, that friend that had the older brother and, and you'd like go into their room and it was dark and they had those like black, black, like that was my room. They're like, yeah, exactly. And it's like the velvet or felt looking black light poster that has

the neon green and purple and blue and all those crazy colors. And you're like, yeah, exactly. And it's like the velvet or felt looking black light poster that has the neon green and purple and blue and all those crazy colors. And you're like, we're not supposed to be in here, bro. You know, that's the vibes I get from the look, at least as far as the art style goes. Dude, you nailed it. That was my room 100%. There used to be this like catalog

called the Rockabilia catalog that I would like order all my Marilyn Manson paraphernalia from and my room totally looked like this. That's a good call. Oh, that's funny. Oh dude, that's really funny. I would never even thought of something like that. It smelled like it looked too. Oh, I can still smell it too. No, the art style in this though is very unique. I love it. I mean, even you're kind of by your health bar where your character model is and stuff is all kind

of crazy psychedelic look to it. Fire. It probably is the hardest to describe art style of everything we're gonna talk about today, just because it's so out there and wild. I just described it perfectly. What are you talking about? Oh yeah, I guess you did technically, but if you're-

To anyone from this decade or the other decade, yeah, anyone who's the, you know, my age or older, I can't dude, ACE, I gotta tell you, man, I'd never heard of this game before we prepped for this episode. This looks rad, bro. Like just the, the visual style looks rad. Yeah. It performed super well on launch and it just kind of fell by the wayside despite, cause the only thing that really stood out to people was the, the artistic style.

And then I didn't really decide to check it out for some reason, which for me, that's what got me to check it out. Oh, for sure. I saw this super unique style and I wondered how does this lend to the gameplay and it's perfect. Once you get to the story, which I will avoid spoiling the story. So there you go. All right.

I'll give you that one. Oh, it looks like they've, they've sold a hundred thousand the story. So there you go. All right. I'll give you that one. Oh, it looks like they've, they've sold a hundred thousand copies. Yeah, they've done. Yeah, that's awesome. And the soundtrack is also super good, but you already knew that because it's an indie game. Predictably. Moving on from a vibrant world of Ultros, we're going to check out a

roguelike called have a nice death. we're going to check out a roguelike called Have a Nice Death. It is a more monochrome, cartoony style game with a sort of Tim Burton gothic flair. You play as Death after he has hired a ton of like demons and things like that to do his job for him and he's gotten super lazy and then all the paperwork is just piled up where everyone's collecting souls and he doesn't have to do anything. You get tired of doing the paperwork and decide, you know what? I'm going to go straighten everyone out in this company and get myself back on top. And it's absolutely crazy that this game is so underrated.

Honestly. How long has this thing been out? Oh, okay. Since 23 years. Yeah. And like, have you heard anyone talk about this game? No. Ever?

Uh, I have, but you know, this, well, yeah, this is in my, this is in my interest. You know, like when you mentioned Tim Burton, like, like, this is how you execute a Tim Burton, like this, this is really good. This feels like it has heart and purpose and an identity. really good. This feels like it has heart and purpose and an identity. And, uh, so anybody out there who's into this sort of like in the whimsical more short form horror game, this is good. This, this is what you're looking for.

Yeah. And I figured it was because the underworld is portrayed as, you know, a big corporation was what drew you to. It's funny. Yeah. Cause you've got, you've got cause you've got two of these on your list. Maybe. The thing again, I'm gonna make another comparison. It looks like as far as the art style looks,

to me I get a little bit of Batman the animated series. Oh, absolutely. The early 90s one. Yeah, yeah, very much. Mixed with almost like. Limbo. Yeah, limbo. I was going to say Animaniacs. Um, oh yeah.

Yeah. It is very cartoony and satirical in the, in its game. Yeah. With the way, I mean him getting ready for work in the morning and like, you know, he's like buffing his skull and then like getting a suit on and then he puts the robes over the suit and then he just like, is like just depressed that he's there, you know, it looks, it looks good. I'm actually, I'm actually, I'm rewatching the trailer now and I'm much more

interested than I thought I would be. Yeah, that's rad. It's a rad little game. By the way, you guys are making me eat all the member berries for this episode. And yeah, but uh, the art style being, you know, stuck in this monochromatic color scheme really serves to when, you know, color does style being, you know, stuck in this monochromatic color scheme really serves to when, you know, color does appear from, you know, special attacks or even yourself.

Death has, you know, super abilities and things like that you can pick up through the game and that really stands out because of this art style. And it really serves that really dark and depressing feeling of being in a company too. Yeah. Whoa. I don't know what companies you guys have worked for, but working for a company can be a wonderful experience if it's led correctly.

Even if it's like just a bunch of desks and cubicles in a skyscraper. Attitude reflects leadership. All right, buddy boy. You know what? Moving on from the structured and very boring world, have a nice death. We're going to look at a game called Pizza Tower, which is, have you guys ever played the Wario Land games?

Wario Land? Yes. No, I feel dirty saying that as, I know. Nintendo fan. Shut up, Ryan. They are very much pure chaos, just as Wario himself is a being of chaos. Mehehehehe. Oh yeah, let's go. Yeah. I do like pizza.

Oh, pizza's the best. Oh yeah, well pizza tower. Pizza is the best. No, don't you get me started on pizza, because Ryan hates my favorite pizza. Oh, geez. What are you, are you a pineapple guy? I am.

Pineapple does belong on pizza. No. Categorically false. Show over. Yeah. Let's show over. Show over. But now, Pizza Tower is a,

I always want to say, rip off off that's not the word since inspired by the warrior land games there you go it is the spiritual successor that is the word I want oh my gosh there it is and a they say rip off without saying rip off yeah it's no don't you do it it very much leans into what those games were which was just pure chaos and charging through these linear levels, taking out as many enemies as possible, gathering money, performing combos. And then you get to the end of the level and you run back and you know, you keep doing that over and over again and collecting as much money as possible to

change the ending and the outcome pizza tower has the craziest, most absurd art style I think I've ever seen in a game Yeah, it actually kind of does remind me a bit more of like those old You know 16-bit sort of platform like what we talked about animatiacs already But this reminds you of like the old Aladdin game on Rangers or whatever it's got got a got a reminiscent style with a little edge. Dude, the freaking faces this guy can make. His name is Papino, by the way.

His name is... That's a good name. That is racist. The way you fight in this game. Papino? Yeah, his name's Papino. What a person. I didn't name him! You play as a chef

who's like his whole business is about to be destroyed by a giant angry pizza face so he has to run through the tower and try to defeat him. Then the way you fight is you either charge into enemies or you push down to taunt to basically counter them and every taunt is a new expression or drawing and He has the most crazy faces ever and in the art style Completely complements the absurd music dude. They they took because it says here I was trying to think and this is inspired by cartoons from the 90s. Yep, bro Ren and the stem P. Oh, yeah Yep. Bro, Ren and Stimpy. Yeah, Ren and Stimpy is exactly.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Ren and Stimpy, like the eyes and the, oh. Yeah, okay, cool, yeah, because that's what popped into my head too. Because I think like. Dude, do you remember watching that show? I remember so many times, like am I supposed to be watching this?

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Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, it was something like that. And that in pizza tower very much carries that inspiration of everything always looks different and unique and crazy. Not to mention two of the slides on Steam for the pictures, like screenshots, there's rats. I knew he was gonna point out the rats! Dang it!

I don't even have to look, dude. You just leave it out in the open, man. I make it too easy, man. Do you have any rat tattoos yet, Ace? I don't think I have a rat tattoo, actually. You owe it to yourself. What was the band name they came up with you for? Oh, what was it?

It's like... Ace and the Obligatory Rats or something. Ace and the Rat Agenda? Yeah. Rat Agenda, oh, that's such a killer, yeah. Ace and the Rat Agenda. Just a trash punk band. Everyone's waiting on the T-shirts for that one.

I love it. There you go. But moving on from the chaos that is Pizza Tower. Well, I want to know one more thing with this Pizza Tower game. It is getting, it has like phenomenal reviews, man. I've never played this, but like- People love it. Speedrunners love it. And look at the zoo. 60,000 reviews.

That's crazy. Yeah, and they're all like nines and tens, man. People freaking love Pizza Tower. They love the speed and the chaos and just the nostalgia it brings back for those who did enjoy the Wario Land games. Wow. Impressive. Honestly, you'd be surprised what kind of audiences are out there for games that nobody

played. Way to go, Pepino. Way to go. Let's go. That was pretty good. Yeah, thank you. But yeah, moving on from that, we're going to go back Pepino. Way to go. Yeah. Let's-a go. That was pretty good. Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

But yeah, moving on from the chaos and the insanity that is Pizza Tower's art style, we're gonna look at Death's Door, which I've mentioned before, it's one of my favorite indie games of all time. Mine too. It has a much more muted and melancholic art style, very reminiscent of Studio Jubilee.

And it serves the narrative. Yeah, and another corporate death game too. Oh yeah, I guess. It's got a little more color than that, I'd say. But it is another corporate death game where you play as a crow this time, you're not just death. Yeah. You're a crow with a sword.

True, or an umbrella. But you know, I freaking love this game so much, man. It's such a great game, and the art style truly portrays like the story that you're about to go through. I mean, you played it, Jon. What were your thoughts when you first booted it up? I did, I love it. It has everything about indie games that I like. It captures you immediately with the mood

and the look and the sound, and then the gameplay was, I don't know if you'd call it, what would you call the, is it Souls-like? I don't know. Zelda-like. Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it. But it's got great humor. The enemy character design is fantastic in it, man.

You got like these big, like, castle monsters and stuff that you're fighting. Oh yeah, enemy variety is insane. Oh my gosh. The enemy variety is really cool and there's lots of different ways you can tackle it too. Like you can build your character in a few different ways, but enough variety to really make it meaningful.

The level design is great. Anything, you know, it encapsulates everything that I love about Indie. It felt like just such a unique, enjoyable experience that I could finish in 15 hours or so, and left a really good mark on me. Fantastic game, and you could probably pick it up super cheap now too.

That final boss is no joke though. Oh my gosh. Yeah It's still pretty pricey These are the combo ones never mind it's 20 bucks Like 40 it's absolutely worth $20 Oh totally totally but since we've talked about it, have you ever checked anything out about it? No, not about this game. The, the art style doesn't like pop out as something I'd like, but I, um, do appreciate, you know, parts of it.

Some of it looks pretty cool to me. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know how it, how much I did. These just aren't my type of games, you know, but it understands. I understand you're not a man of quality sometimes. If you had to say, Ryan, one game specifically where like that nailed my like artistic preferences, what would you say? Like, Cyberpunk 2077

Yeah, it cyberpunk is a great aesthetic. Yeah, it's just it's it's that that yeah It's a really is a march style, but the aesthetic is nice. Yeah, those are those are more my I'm an action RPG guys So I just love those types of worlds that are you know deep and far off I mean even when we're playing we're playing playing Night Rain right now, and like, way off in the distance, you see those giant monsters walking, and the world is beautiful, and the lava's bubbling. Those are the kind of styles I like.

You like to immerse yourself in the more- The expensive ones. A more expensive, realistic world. You can't, you can't dull your mind down to enjoy. No, I'm not as bad as Josh, though. No, you're not. Yeah, he's a graphic sound, which I get, you know? I get, just dude, just talk me into buying

a $4,000 computer. Ooh, I'm glad you didn't talk me into that. Guy. That I built mine. John's gonna join the PC master race. Yeah. Ace, what about you, if you had to pick a game that like perfectly encapsulates

like your favorite artistic style. You're gonna, everyone's gonna hate hearing it again, but it's Ender Magnolia. No, that's a great choice. I love the art styles of Ender lilies and Ender magnolia. I honestly might lean a little more toward Ender lilies with its more dark and cell shaded art style, whereas Magnolia took a brighter, more edgy, Ghibli style.

But they're both fantastic art styles that really portray the world you're in as this melancholic, sad place where you are the last light and that really stands out to me. But yeah, that's Ender Magnolia and Ender Lilies, which I wasn't supposed to bring up again. Of course, it always happens. But it's going to keep happening.

We expect it. I promise. It's good. Moving on. Anyway, back to what we were actually supposed to be talking about. I was gonna say, moving on, no, I think Death's Store has probably one of the greatest art styles to tell its story with its themes of life, death, the afterlife, and the, you know, the importance of that stuff.

And it really does a great job of being comedic when it needs to be, but also taking a very serious tone when it has to. And if you haven't played death store, why come on, check it out. I'll be here. Go buy it. I'm waiting. It is worth your time. I understand why I've got like 100 games

that I should play and now I gotta add freaking Ultros or whatever to it. But yeah, if you have spare time, it's definitely worth your time. Oh, absolutely. And moving on to, this is a game actually me and Josh played but it's Abiotic Factor. It is- I remember.

Yeah, this is a survival game that takes place Josh played, but it's a biotic factor. It is. I remember. Yeah. This is a survival game that takes place inside a secret lab that has an art style, very reminiscent to those old retro low poly 3d aesthetics. Almost, uh, what's the word for it? Uh, almost half-life like, and it's what popped into my head. Yeah. It's very half-life like, but that art- That's what popped into my head. Yeah, it's very Half-Life-like. But that art style and those muted textures and things like that really lean into the sci-fi horror

element of this survival game, where you're trapped in this lab and these monsters are coming through the rift and trying to get you. And it's just super cool. I know like survival games aren't like super your thing, John, but does it stand out to you though? No. If I didn't tell you it was a survival game. I well, I'll tell you this,

this specific visual presentation gets into like uncanny valley territory for me. Like I actually I love versatile art styles. I love when I love pixel art. I love hand. I love hand drawn art. That's one of my favorite. So yeah, I love sprites like fighting games should be sprites. Full stop. And then I also love new polish AAA, you know, expedition 33, newer newer Fallout, Dead Space style, like really moody, great lighting type games or whatever. This specific like frame and time when we're talking like the, you know, Half-Life, like that kind of lower res 3D, there's something about it that just like looking at it, I have kind of like a reaction to.

I'll take your word for it. This is, I'm sure great. It wasn't really ever scary for me and Josh, I'll say. But I think- Still 35 bucks on Steam too, man. Come on, guys. Oh, I got it. I may have gotten it cheaper from a third party site.

Oh. But- Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Yeah. Master. You are always talking about Half-Life. Yes. So does it interest you that this game looks like Half-Life and is a survival game that

you could play with friends? A little bit. It almost seems like it would feel like kind of like an offshoot of the Half-Life universe because it does for sure have that OG CS 1.5, the old school original Half-Life look to it. A lot of triangles and weird squares, you know, on everything and stuff. So it definitely has that look. So it'd be interesting.

And from what I heard from you guys, I mean, you guys really enjoyed your time, right? Oh, it was a great time. It was, we had a great time because there was two of us and it was funny, but if we ever got separated, it did get scary. Oh, I bet. bet you know firsthand from games like Lethal Company like you don't need good graphics to have scary monsters Oh Jeez, yeah this game very much tries to lean into the fact that it has low poly graphics very reminiscent of the old

You know and 64 games and things like that where you had horror games on there Like I guess what was it Silent Hill something that was on GameCube or something? I don't know. I haven't heard that. I think so. I should have heard it. Please make sure you enunciate horror. Horror.

Yeah. Horror. It's a family, family show. Clean language show. How is the, cause a lot of times too with certain art styles, they, you know, the music is so important on how they tie that in with with the look and the feel of the game Is there any music in this that matches that type of art style? Yeah

It's very like low synthy music that really lends itself well to being you know trapped in this lab With all these monsters and things like that. You don't want like really loud Exploding music with games like that. I don't want like really loud exploding music. You want music, with games like that, I think you want more music that you don't notice. Like after a while, like you're hearing it, but you're not. It's just kind of part of the game. Yeah, like it's looping or something

and you're not even noticing. Like it's just part of the game. You're more focused on what you're doing and you know, what your friends are doing. And it just works well for that immersive experience, honestly. I mean, it's got 23,000 reviews, overwhelmingly positive. It's only in Early Access, too, isn't it?

Oh, yeah, Early Access game. Jeez, 35 bucks for an Early Access. I never get the Early Access, but I'm going for it. I would say, well, I'm sure people will find out about that tomorrow. Well, yeah. Ace, I'd love your opinion on that. So like, I have thoughts about the early access type thing or beta release thing, but like, man, I almost feel like

maybe beta is the way to go. But anything like we've been talking a lot about games that had these big failed launches, like your cyberpunk 2077s and your no man's sky and Final Fantasy 14 that ended up redeeming themselves but I have to imagine that they'll failed launch hurt their hurt their overall sales figures their overall performance because people just didn't play them. Would you prefer that games get launched imperfect or would you prefer these long early accesses?

I do not like buying a game and it being broken. It annoys me to no end, especially like, I understand like that's how it was, you know, before there's like, you just got a game, it's like, well, no patch, oh well. Yeah. But we do have solutions to that now. I think early access really does benefit,

especially smaller developers who might need the income to keep developing the game. But if you're just running an early access for over two years, you're not running early access anymore, you're just wasting my time. For sure. I would agree with that, yeah.

I would agree with that. It's okay to a point. That's why I don't like it. I mean, that's what they're doing now. Basically every game is an early access game, even if it's full release, because every single one of them will have a patch on day one. And then like a couple of weeks, they'll have another patch to fix the other issues. They just did a bunch of like level scaling and certain stuff for Night Reign. Like, how do they not? I just don't get how they- Triple A game. You would think they-, I just don't get how they-

Triple A game, you would think they, and they did like beta tests for that game. Yeah, like how can you not figure this stuff out in the betas, you know? To me it's, I mean, we were even running into some issues yesterday last night playing. I was lagging like crazy. Yeah, it was lagging and weird kind of texture glitches

that were happening, so yeah, I don't know. I'm not a fan of the, we got way off the rails on that one too. Yeah, apologies listeners, but if I don't know. I'm not a fan of the, we got way off the rails on that one too. Yeah. Apologies listeners, but if you didn't know, we are streaming now. So come check out our night rain streams. Yes. Yes. Yeah, definitely. We're on Twitch. Yeah, doing pretty well there too guys. Yeah, man. Already an affiliate. Yeah. Already an affiliate, but come in and say hi. We've been, we've done it every night since we started last week, but that may not continue, but we're pretty hooked on Night Reign,

so definitely, definitely check us out. Well, fellas, I think we're running low on time here, so I just wanna ask, do you believe that the art style of a game can truly convey its world if it's not realistic? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, I prefer it's not realistic.

I do too. I prefer the fantasy presentation. I prefer the skewed reality I think it's easier to immerse me in a world that's not ours if You're telling a story that's convincing enough if you've made this art style very coherent with the music and the characters you put in it It really does work. Well and indie games You're the best at it, keep doing it. For sure. No, absolutely, yeah.

There's something, because it is different, because if it is super realistic, you know it's not real. You know something's off and your brain tells you that. This you can kind of just disperse reality and, okay, I'm in this world now. This is obviously not Earth, these aren't humans. This is totally different. And you can get sucked into that not Earth, these aren't humans, this is totally different,

and you can get sucked into that and enjoy that world. So yeah, it is cool. And I love the art styles of Indies and how, I mean, I've played more Indies than I ever would have otherwise because of playing them with you, dude. So it's cool, I've grown to love some of the stuff that I never would have looked at before. It's amazing.

Well, before we close out the show, John, you want to tell people where they can support the show? Boy, would I, Ace. That would be my honor. So everybody out there, number one, we talk about it all the time, but our Discord is truly the best community in gaming. You can find a link to that community

in our show description. You can also find it on our website, video gamers pod.com. Please come join us. We've got a thousand of the merriest people, merriest gamers in the world that are all very supportive. We've got a thousand people and I can't remember the last time we've had to boot somebody out very stern, no jerks policy, and we've never had to enforce it, thankfully, if you feel like supporting our show in a very material way, we have a Patreon.

Again, information for that is in our show description. That comes with some really cool perks, that are exclusive to our Patreon members and some more really cool stuff coming. As Ryan and Ace mentioned, we are now live streaming. So please find us on Twitch. That's a really good time. Ryan is going through this uncomfortable, uh, evolution of trying to figure out the souls like genre in a rogue like format. And, uh, I want to say, especially whatever you do, please take a moment to stop, look down at your phone,

open up your podcast player of choice and follow us and rate us five stars as an independent show. It goes such a long way to keeping the show going and helping us find new wonderful people like yourselves. Please take a moment to do that. Yeah, man, absolutely. You know what? Any games are beautiful, but not as beautiful as you. So until next time, happy gaming. See ya!

Toodles!