Video Gamers Podcast - The Voices of Gaming - Gaming Podcast

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

Gaming hosts Josh and Ryan are back with special guest Chris Tester! Chris is a gamer, but he’s also an accomplished voice actor with some awesome insight into the world of voice acting. We get insight into what it’s like to work in the world of video games, what some of the challenges are for voice actors, and chat about the best and worst parts of the job. We get the insight gamers truly want to know and have a blast while doing it! It’s an episode like no other, filled with gaming knowledge and video game chat from the Video Gamers Podcast! Help Chris support voice actors: https://navavoices.org/donate/   Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Ol’ Jake, Disratory and Gaius Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Discord: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod  Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU12YOMnAQwqFZEdfXv9c3Q   Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. Ever captured a great night video only for it to be ruined by that one noisy talker? With audio erase on the new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, you can reduce or remove unwanted noise and relive your favorite moments without the distractions. And that's not all. New Galaxy AI features like NowBrief will give you personalized insights based on your day schedule so that you're prepared no matter what. Buy the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at Samsung.com. Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Video Game Tester, Voice Actor,

Lead Game Developer, Motion Cap Actor, these all sound like any gamer's dream jobs, but are they as fun as we think they are? Well, we're about to find out because on today's episode we're going to be diving into the world of voice acting with an inside look at the fun and challenges voice actors can face. But first some introductions are in order. I am your host Josh and joining me. If we don't hear at least three impressions from him this episode, I'll be sorely disappointed. It's Ryan.

You can't, I'm not a puppet. You can't force me to do anything man. Come on, Ryan, you know you want to. No, no. I'm classically trained, bro. Oh man. And joining us, he is an actual voice actor with work in games like Dark Souls 2, several Warhammer games, and much, much more. It's the one and only Chris Tester. Hello, hi. Hi, lovely to be here. Oh, Chris, we are so excited to have you, man. Thank you so much for taking the time

to hop on the podcast with us. It's not every day we get to interview a voice actor, man. I mean, they are sprouting up. There are quite a few of them. So I think you're timing it absolutely perfectly. Right this way. As every other person goes, that would be a really cool thing to do. I could get into that.

I'm sure it's not very difficult or very hard. And here I am to prove that that's the case. They'll let anybody in now. It's kind of like podcasting, Chris. They'll let anybody do a podcast nowadays. You get your Blue Yeti microphone and if you can do some impersonations. An Orc voice is always particularly useful and then just go at it. Just spam everyone. That's the way forward. Man, we just unlocked a secret. Josh and I are out.

Yeah, totally. Ryan's starting his new career. We are going to get a little bit of insight into what it's like to be a voice actor and work in that industry and how that ties into gaming and things like that. But Chris, I wanted to just kind of get, you know, give you a little bit of an introduction for the listeners.

So, you know, we've had a chance to chat before recording and over email a little bit. And I gotta be honest, man, this is, this is an impressive resume. So for the listeners, you have worked on games such as Fallout London, Poppy Playtime, Warhammer Total War 2 and 3, Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader, Dark Souls 2, Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, and perhaps my personal favorite game,

Bard's Tale 4! Oh, there's the niche pick. Nice, I like it. Dude, Bard's Tale 4 is one of those games that I think is so drastically under known and underrated. And for an older gamer like me that loves that kind of old style, like dungeon crawler, blubber is the term for that game. Yeah, I saw that and I just started nerding out, man. Yeah, no, I'm like in exile where the devs behind Brad's Tale were one of the first kind of studios that I worked with consistently on that and on another couple of kind of like smaller kind of projects and that kind of thing and they were always an absolute delight and the great thing

is is that they are total pros in that there's not lots of endless workshopping. It's like they they're like we know what we want. We've done this a thousand times, but they still give you room for a little bit of creativity as well. So you feel as if you're not just being given line readings. And that's kind of the balancing act with voice acting, especially it's like you want to be creative and you, you know, you want to give your best and surprise people. But at the same time, you need to deliver those lines as they need it as quickly as possible. So it's, yeah, they're, they were a great team to work with. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that game so much. So shout out to Bard's Tale four for

anybody that has not played it yet. So I am excited because I'm a huge fallout guy. And so I haven't had a chance to get into fallout London yet. And now I'm going to be just hunting for your voice the whole time. Yeah, it's in there. There are a couple of different characters, but yeah, it's pretty distinctly. Awesome. So Chris, one of the things we're doing, we actually kind of started this series where we're giving people insight into the kind of the video game industry and various aspects. We just actually did an episode where we talked to a psychologist,

who does nothing but gaming psychology and trends and stuff like that. Obviously, we're talking to you because voice acting, I think, is really near and dear to a lot of gamers. And it's something that we actually converse about a lot. Because I think, number one, it's sort of that attractive field where it's like, oh, man, that's such a cool job.

I wonder if my voice could do that. We're going to touch on animation and even some talking to some devs for development of games and stuff like that as well. So we're really excited to have you. And it's funny that you mentioned the creativity that you get or don't get, because that's actually something I want to touch on a little bit later as well.

But you know what? Let's start off with the really important stuff. or don't get, because that's actually something I want to touch on a little bit later as well. But you know what, let's start off with the really important stuff, and that's that you are indeed a gamer at heart, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So right back from ZX Spectrum was my first thing. So when in the UK, you used to get magazines with little cassettes on the front that you could load up. And these were these cassettes that it took 25 minutes to half an hour to load up and

play it once. You immediately died. You had to reload all of that kind of stuff. Then gravitated to Duck Hunt, then Inez, then a Mega Drive, then a Super Nintendo as well. I managed to straddle that device. Oh nice, oh nice. And yeah and then PlayStation I kind of jumped straight there. I had a little dalliance with a Sega Saturn but that didn't go too far. I'm not gonna lie. That's the case for a lot of people. Yeah so I'm now Team PlayStation unless Xbox have any exclusives they want to cast me in. And yeah, have been since then.

But it's interesting how my journey has changed. Because I think in terms of my own time that I have, it's increasingly limited as a 43 year old man with various bits falling off at this stage and other kinds of responsibilities. So the games that I'm most passionate about actually probably being a part of are also the games that I probably have the least amount of time to play, which are the ones that actually have the time to explore a longer narrative, more in-depth characters, all of that exciting kind of stuff. What that actually means is that 90% of my gaming right now is like FIFA in my

pants for 15 minutes before bed. Cause I'm living my best life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We understand the, uh, Hey, we had to make a gaming podcast just so we had excuses to play video games. Responsible.

It's like an accountability group, which is really nice. Yeah. Yeah. And we just, we just hopped into a kingdom come deliverance too. And so that's going to be a bear. Amazing. Yeah. But you have to fighting.

Yeah. And we've been playing Marvel rivals for like two amazing. Yeah. But you after- For slow fighting. Yeah, and we've been playing Marvel Rivals for like two months. We haven't had any really games to cover. And so now we're like, oh, we got to buckle down for this one. Yeah, time to get back to work. Yeah. Exactly. I wish, you know, I mean, it used to be, it used to be able to justify it as like, oh,

okay, I'm doing research. So, you know, all of the different kind of takes on characters or how do you play a protagonist where they could be good or they could be evil? You know, the whole Jennifer Hale in Mass Effect, Masterclass, where it's like, you can be, you don't want to be boring and monotone, but at the same time, you don't want to be too evil

or too good if the player choices kind of go that kind of way. But now it's kind of like with YouTube playthroughs and everything, it's like you can you can just watch. It's fine. Yeah. That's one thing I never understood. I want to play the games. I don't want to watch people play the games. And maybe that's just the old man and me coming out, because it's like, I know there are a lot of people that love the like, let's play

and the playthroughs and stuff, but it's a whole thing. Yeah. With puppies like with puppies playtime, the last thing that you've named check. Thanks very much for that. I mean, I didn't realize quite what a culture that whole play through thing was. Like there are the, the, the game was released a week ago and it's got play throughs with no commentary or minimal commentary with like millions of views already and it's like, yeah. Why? How? I mean, great, but. throughs with no commentary or minimal commentary with like millions of views already. And it's like, why?

How? I mean, great. Don't you just want to play the game? Wouldn't that be better? So we did have a chance to chat about some of your favorite games. And I got to be honest, I love this list. And Ryan is going to really geek out with you as well,

at least on these these these first three. So you did mention Red Dead Redemption 2. I think widely we at least I know we agree that's probably the greatest video game ever made, you know, in terms of like scale story, you know, that kind of stuff. We we bicker a little bit back and forth on whether the gameplay is better or worse than God of War, which is my favorite. But that's yeah, what an amazing game. Disco Elysium. Now you mentioned Disco Elysium, which I love because for people that have experienced Disco Elysium, they know for people that haven't, they don't know. But I mean, the thing with Disco also is that I found that it took me a long time to get into it. I think I played that first section, you know, when you're coming to and do you want to just settle in the darkness? Are you going to actually get find your tie off the top of the light?

And look at your weirdly grimacing face in the bathroom. I think I played that through about six times before I really pushed through and was like, okay, what is this game? And oh, actually, I really need to roleplay. I need to decide what kind of character I want to be rather than trying to, I want to get there's a right answer to these questions and I just need to figure out exactly the right combination. So as soon as you actually embrace the gaming element to it and that kind of very Dungeons

and Dragons roleplay aspect of, yeah, I'm super cop. I'm absolutely, I'm the best. I'm amazing. It's great. And actually embrace it on those terms or the alternative. That's when it really comes into its own. That's when the art style and the vocal performances and the writing and everything just kind of seems to come together. But the first few times it was the game that everybody told me I should

play and I was just like, Oh, there's that really annoying kid I want to beat to death. Oh yeah, Kuno is the worst. So yeah, but no, I mean, to me, I mean, obviously the fallout of the studio afterwards is kind of like the tragic thing of it, but you know, of its time, there's nothing quite like it. Now, did you play the original version that did not have the voice, the voice? Yeah, that was the first one that I bounced off twice. I did the exact same thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I, I dove straight into the voice version. And honestly, I got to say, the voice acting in that game is absolutely phenomenal. And it made the game. I even said, as good as this game is and as much as I love it, I don't know that I'd have the patience to sit there and just read everything.

Yeah, so that is one of those examples where I think really good voice acting hands down made that game what that is one of those examples where I think really good voice acting hands down made that game what it is that people get to experience now. So, but yeah, fantastic game. And then another one on your list is the last of us, which is way up there for Ryan. I famously, I do confess this publicly, even though I am ashamed, I got about four hours into last of us and then I just never touched it again. Right. I know that's a tragedy. I, I, I, you know, I watched the HBO show, so I know it's only a tragedy for you.

Yeah. I mean, shame. I, I, I, I don't try to hide it, but I mean, again, it's one of those things. It's one of those games that when you revisit it, and I've probably replayed that about three or four times with the remastered remastered remastered whatever. And you do kind of go like they have cleaned a lot of this up, but some of it's a little janky or you see in terms of the actual mechanics, you go like, okay, if I, if I want pure adrenaline,

this ain't the game. Or if I want pure adrenaline, this ain't the game. Or if I want pure stealth, this isn't necessarily the game you are, or I was much more conscious of the improvements, the mechanical improvements that the sequel made. Regardless of what you think in terms of like the narrative ambition of the second one, which I personally am a fan of, you know, whether or not you think it succeeded in what it was trying to do or whatever. But yeah, it's not the basic game mechanics that really sell it for me. And so I can understand like, and I think it's especially when someone does when a title like that is bigged up so

much. There's part of me which is like, well, screw you guys. I've got I've got my own sense of taste. I was a bit like that. To be honest, I was a bit like that with Baldur's Gate, which, you know, is a revelatory. Don't get me wrong. It's just not my type of game. And I think it's a, it's a time poor aspect of it, but I was just like, I fell down into a dungeon and got my ass handed to me like 12 times consecutively. And I was like, I don't know. I don't like this. And it's like, either I make it really easy to the point where the stakes are

minimal, uh, and I'm like, I can't do that. Uh, or, or, you know, I, or I've got to spend time getting good. And that's my problem as a gamer right now is that I don't have the time that I used to have to get good. Yeah. Uh, and there's something between the difficulty levels of kind of going like, as a gamer right now is that I don't have the time that I used to have to get good. And there's something between the difficulty levels of kind of going like, no, this is too easy. And this is, this is dutifully hard and I only have a limited amount of time and

I'm supposed to be relaxing now and it is not relaxing. And at the same time, like I know people, countless people who are in that game. It is now very much a reference point for a lot of the casting breakdowns that come through the number of times that I see a star Ian as a casting breakdown and you're like, Oh, you know, you know that kind of thing. So you've got to be aware of the performances in, in that, in that, in that game. But yeah, as for the actual mechanics of it, I was just like, this is overwhelmingly big, but an amazing achievement. It is funny, too, as it's something we actually talk about as we get older, where the barrier of entry or that that learning curve of a game

can actually get to the point where it's like, I don't have the time to put into this. And it's like you said, it's why a lot of times we wind up just playing FIFA or for us, like Marvel rivals, where it's like, I don't really have to think about all of the systems in this game. I can just log in, I can zone out, and I can have a good time. So yeah, you can catch up with friends and all of that kind of good stuff.

And it's like, great. It serves a different purpose. So Chris, I got to touch on this because I love this take. When we were chatting over email, we always like to say, hey, what's like a hot take that you have? And you wrote back, and it's funny, because this actually made me chuckle,

but you did mention that you thought that the recent Zelda games, so Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, were basically overrated, is that fair to say? Massively, yeah. I can't stand them. Yes! I really can't. I mean, I own both of them, so well done, Nintendo. You got me. Youively, yeah. I can't stand them. I really can't. I mean, I own both of them, so well done Nintendo. You got me. You got me good.

Capitalism wins. As does all my childhood memories and associations because you know big Big fan in especially in the Super Nintendo days and 64. I was I was away doing other stuff But yeah, I dropped back into those worlds and again there was just overwhelm And also I think and this is where the kind of like narrative experience is I'm kind of like What's the story in these games? I'm not apart from the most form formulaic boilerplate. I'm kind of like, what personality has this kid? He doesn't have one because he's because he's an avatar of me and I have no personality. Okay, I get that.

But where are we going with this? Oh, it's the big bad. But what's I don't care enough. Uh, that kind of thing. And then with the latest one, it's like, well, what we're going to do is we're going to give you even more choice with lots of technical to learn, uh, and it'll be great because it's like the biggest, most open sandbox ever. And to me, my brain just goes like, oh, great.

More stuff, not to be good at. Yeah. Uh, and, and so for me, it becomes crippling. I walk around these worlds and they are beautiful and they are stunning, but they don't have that, you know, like something like The Witcher did so well, which was like, okay, I've got to get from point A to point B, but guaranteed, I mean, Red Dead Redemption does this absolutely perfectly as well. Between points A and B, within 10 to 15 seconds, something is going to come and distract me.

And it's like, then do I go into the woods and, you know, find the racists hanging somebody, or then do I go and, you know, delve into this other kind of side thing? It's all so concentrated at the same time and it's all rich enough so that it's not just a pure Ubisoft experience of, I've got to collect them all, I've got to finish everything right now, I've got a shopping list that I need to do apparently of completely inconsequential tasks. So there's that level of richness. I didn't find that in the three hours in total that I attempted to play either of those two games.

But you know that that was it. So again, that is probably a bit like with the last of us with you. That's probably my loss, but I am OK with that loss. Yeah, I don't foresee, you know, some great transformational moment where it's going to get better. Yeah, we I mean, I think they're good video games, but the response to them and calling them some of the best games ever, I think is what we kind of take, like some, some,

I think there's an element of Nintendo. Yes. Oh God. That's part of, you know, what made us, you know, fans of this since childhood in the first place, you want it to be good. You want it to be good as when you were a kid. And I'm like, but I don't feel it. It's not doing the same thing for me anymore. It's simple as that. Yeah. We sound like the exact same gamer.

Honestly. You guys are very similar. Because that's the one thing I did. Thanks for a great podcast. Lots of non-conflict. Great. Yes, you are right. Your opinion was very well thought through.

Yep. Yeah, the one thing that the Ultra Hand kind of had, I had fun with near the end, just making goofy stuff. But overall, I just thought, well, it was great as a game. I just, it was not what everyone touted to be, in my opinion. So yeah, I just. It becomes this huge epic, oh my god. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it was good. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

So one other thing, and then we'll kind of get into some of these, these kind of insights into the voice acting industry and your experience with those. But you did mention that you love games where you can kind of get this emotional involvement with the characters that are in the game. Red Dead Redemption 2 being high on your list, obviously that explains that. Have you ever played cyberpunk?

Yes, I have. Yeah, I have. And it's curious. It's like, I love CD Projekt Red for so many things, for so many reasons. You can hear the buck coming. The same time it's gonna like- I was like, where's it going with this?

By the way guys, like, you know, if CD Projekt Red had enough, which next one? Yeah, I'm readily available and UK based to say. But it didn't land for me. Like the, I like the execution is phenomenal in that game on so many levels like on paper love it so much The release is a huge issue for me I'm a console guy and it was like that build up to it's my Christmas game the one time I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna I can actually say like three full days reserved out I'm just gonna be playing this game and then it doesn't even load.

So there was so it was already on the back foot. And and then when we actually kind of like get into it, I just didn't like and this wasn't a performative issue, but I didn't like the protagonist very much. V. Yeah, V. And to be honest I would say I only played the male V, not the female V. And I've heard that you know some people prefer the female to the male, you know. So I've still got about 20-25 minutes in and I've enjoyed it. But I like, if someone said like, so what's the story of V what are the big main kind of plot points and everything I'd be like, well, well, he's, he's going to

die. He's a little crazy. Yeah. He's a bit time poor. And yeah, Jackie's Jackie's not well. Oh, that's a good point. I like it. But other than that, I'm kind of a bit like, I don't know. And I think it was also because it promised to be so many different types of games.

So like when it kind of went into one of the first missions where it's kind of very covert and you've got to zoom between all of the different, you know, security cameras and listen into bits of the conversation and that kind of stuff. And then it was like, well, maybe you can do that again sometime in your playthrough if you really wanna go out on a limb and do it, but you don't have to.

And so I never did. And so for me, it didn't quite land in the same way. So I, yeah, I, I, I, I enjoyed it. I admire the ambition and the scope so much style, everything about it. Uh, I've obviously heard that DLC maybe phenomenal. Yeah. I think that's, that's probably, will probably get me into doing a fresh playthrough of it, um, uh, because I, that does sound like a different thing and really kind of like coming

together, but yeah, it makes you feel like a spy, like legitimately, like you feel like you're James Bond at that point in the game, like the missions that they do, it's worth it to check it out again for full play through it for sure. I mean, they're operating at such a high level to it, to it. Yeah, that's fine. But I think this is where the tension kind of comes in with somewhere like Red Dead. Red Dead is, I would say, I would arguably say a little bit more of a linear linear experience. So in some of the, in some of the story beats

are so well crafted. Fundamentally, it's your relationship with the villain in something like Red Dead Redemption two, or even in the original kind of Red Dead, that twist, that turn is completely soul destroying to me. Whereas in terms of the big bad in cyberpunk I'm a bit like, you know, I'm dead. You know, time is running out. I've got to make a couple of choices. Keanu did some bad things or did he? I don't know. I mean, there was just so much. But again, this may be also partly down to playing Red Dead Redemption at one point in my life and now trying to play cyberpunk at another point where I've got like an hour or 45 minutes. Whereas Red Dead Redemption, it was like, it's half a day minimum. I've got to ride my horse now. That time has a plan.

Yeah, exactly. But I was more of a kind of resting actor throughout, when during the release of that game. So yeah, I was allowed to, I was allowed to explore that a lot more. Yeah. Well, we've got a plan and that's to talk about some voice acting, but we're going to do that right after we take this short break. This is Carrie the fire. I'm your host, Lisa Laflamme. right after we take this short break. nurses, researchers, and their patients come together to ignite breakthroughs. Carry the fire launches Monday, January 27th, wherever you get your podcasts.

All right. We are back and we are chatting with Chris Tester and you know, we are lifelong gamers and one of our tenants on this podcast is we are not professionals or people that honestly know the gaming industry all that well. We're just gamers at heart. We've been gaming our entire lives. So we're absolutely pumped to be able to kind of get a glimpse behind the curtain into these various aspects

of the gaming world. And I think our natural curiosity is going to be pretty evident. So forgive any excitement or dumb questions that we might have on this. But it's kind of who we are, too. We ask the dumb questions, because it's the things that we're curious about.

So let's just kind of start off with a general overview. What is a day in the life of a voice actor like? I mean, just a top-down view. We're going to get into some more specifics here and kind of hone in on that a little bit. So do you mean specifically as a voice actor who just does games? Or a voice actor who does? In general, honestly, yeah, because we

see a lot of crossover between gaming and anime and even animated series and stuff like that. So I would say just in general. Sure. Well, I think it still varies massively. So there are a lot of the talent that would be most recognizable to a lot of people

will just go to exterior studios for when they're recording projects. And quite often, they'll be cast in those projects or get auditions for those projects're recording projects. And quite often they'll be cast in those projects or get auditions for those projects through their agents. That might be an acting agent or a voiceover agent. So my very first voice acting gig was Dark Souls 2. And that was through my acting agent at the time. I went to a studio to audition,

like literally had 15 minutes to, you know, they gave me a picture of a half man half scorpion, I assumed that it would sound I don't know, a bit like a monster and they said no in your normal voice and I was like, sure. And then I went away. And then two weeks later, I was booked in and I did the same thing. And so you're dealing with an audio engineer and then whoever else is directing who may be there or may not be there that kind of thing However, I would say 99% of my work is Recorded from home and that includes some video games as well So I was a theater actor for about 15 years

But I've been also full-time voice acting from home for about seven years but I've been also full-time voice acting from home for about seven years. So I have a bedroom that I've converted into a professional recording studio and I do pretty much anything and everything. So I do corporate stuff, corporate narration, documentaries, commercials, and I do animation, video games, that kind of stuff as well. Whereas a lot of voice actors will only do, you know, the video games and the animation maybe and character based kind of stuff, and maybe the odd commercial if the money is really, really good. So yeah, that's the kind of balancing act. For me, as a result of that, I also like a lot of the games that I'm in is because I've marketed myself or I am out there in some way, shape or form. So in terms of game devs that I'm in is because I've marketed myself or I am out there in some way, shape or form.

So in terms of game devs that I admire, I will definitely be shooting my shot and introducing myself and saying, this is my show reel, this is my calling card. If you ever need someone like me, you know where I am building relationships with casting directors who may be representative of different studios. So that's about finding out who they are, building a relationship with them so that they know what you can do, what you can't do, what your unique strengths are, whether or not you can record from home, whether or not you're based near a larger city, like I'm in London, and it's still advantageous for me in case they want to get someone in last minute. I've got a in-person job and an in-person audition

tomorrow in London town. And that's, and that's partly because they want to see you working in a space. Also for them, technically, if everybody is recorded in the same space, it means that everybody will sound the same. They're not like, Oh, the noise floor has gone a bit kind of crazy. And you said you didn't gate this, but you definitely did because we can't hear you breathing, you know, all of those kind of things. But what that actually means in terms of the reality is that for a lot of people it's like maybe post on social media to get a bit of a following and a bit of a profile but otherwise it's down to your agent to get you the opportunities and from that if you, you know, if you book

at one or two of these studios you might be called in much more. I do that. I have a voiceover agent, but for 99% of my work, I'm doing my own marketing and my own outreach. So that's in-person networking, that's networking variously across the internet, that's social media, that's cold emails, pretty much anything and everything. So I've got to run it as a bit of a business because it is my full-time thing.

Wow, that's super neat to get that insight. So my daughter, she's in theater now, she's in high school and she absolutely loves it. And she's always in there practicing lines and dances and all that stuff. Is there like kind of a practice type thing that you do? Obviously you're a lot more voice-orientated. So do you have like sequences you work on

or is there stuff you do for that to prep for roles or? I mean, I used to do a, from like three years of drama school training. So there was like vocal warmups that I became kind of absolutely enthralled to really, using your body as a physical instrument, that kind of thing, which is very important to do. And so there's that and then the physical warm up kind of aspect as well that goes on top of it as well, because it's a full body thing.

It's not just the voice. It's much easier to be able to make those to make those kind of choices freely if you're using your whole body. It's the whole reason that rather than having a very small booth, I made myself a room to thrash around in because it just makes my job easier, a lot easier than if it's a confined thing. Because the very first recording setups that I built myself from home, I was in a little corner like this and I couldn't really move. And that affects how you can act, just kind of like necessarily. So there was that. And then from a voice acting perspective, the number one thing that I practice

is cold reading. Cold reading, i.e. stuff that I've never read, haven't even scanned before, immediately presenting it myself, pressing record and going, making sure I don't make mistakes and make choices on the fly. Because most video game scripts are recorded like that. You do not see the scripts in advance. You do not even get to read ahead of what... Oh wow. So it's like, let's do two to three takes of every single line. Let's go, we're on it.

So you'll have discussed in advance maybe, okay so your character is here, you're talking to X, Y or Z person, you're in the middle of a battlefield, so you've got to shout a little bit, you know, what's your relationship to that person? Okay, but don't overstay your welcome because time is money and it's already kind of like ticking. So that's part of the craft is like knowing what to ask and what to skip and use your imagination for, but then it's all cold reading. And every time you make a mistake or you mispronounce a word ask and what to skip and use your imagination for. But then it's all cold reading. And every time you make a mistake or you mispronounce a word or anything else, that's on the money

of the other person. So you've got to be good at being able to do that as well, technically. And also then there's the bonus kind of challenge being like, well, that's great because what I can do is I can take the file and I can put it to the font that I want and I can No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no all of games almost all of games for the purposes the technical purpose of editing They're going to be on a spreadsheet which you cannot annotate So if someone gives you a weird pronunciation of a name You've got to write it on your body or somewhere if you need to remind it because you can't annotate it as you go

Or anything else like that So it's all about the discipline of being able to take a cold bit of text and immediately kind of give a take on it and know halfway through your first take. What am I going to do with the second take? That's going to be different. What little adjustment am I going to make other than going like, I'm going to do it slower, I'm going to do it more or less excited, you know, so it's an interesting and informed take rather than just like, yeah, your first takes are always good and your second takes are always not so good.

So yeah, other than that, that's, I mean, honestly, that's super interesting because like, again, you know, it's, it's one of those things where I think as gamers, we, we sort of glorify voice acting and we think, oh, you just have to have a good voice and then you just talk, you know? And I think that- Yeah, after hearing that, dude, I'm back. I don't quit anymore. Yeah.

I'm okay. But I think that people miss the part where, you know, you are having somebody that wants you to perform in a certain way or certain lines and not mess up your words and not have to do multiple takes and things like that. It's a technical thing because you don't want to get into your head about it and ultimately, you know, it's creative, but it's also the reason why

some people will go, well, we'll get an AI to do it. Uh, and this is where you frame yourself as like, if you're hiring an actor, then it's because you're interested in their creativity and their choice and what they might bring if you're a game dev who literally is like, I know exactly what this sound is that I want and that's what I want, then you'll use an actor until it becomes cheaper to use an AI to do exactly what it is that you want to do. And I'm not judging you on that one way or the other. If the AI is technically sourced, if it's like sourced legitimately and with everybody's

consent and all of that kind of thing, then sure, go do whatever you want. But that's not what I'm necessarily striving for as an actor is being given line readings is what people would say to them like, this is exactly how you say the line, because a lot of directors aren't actors. So they'll think it sounds like one thing in their head, what actually comes out of their mouths isn't always exactly what they intended. So then you're kind of doing almost a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a not particularly good performance in the first place. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, if there's a certain intonation that you need, tell me what the intonation is.

I'll find my own way to it, and I'll try to do it in as fast a time as possible. But yeah, that's where the tension lies. It's like, you've got to be free and easy and creative, but at the same time, tick, tick, tick. Clock's running. So let's just, I'd love to kind of dive into this a little bit more, because one of the questions that I wanted to actually ask you about is how writing in a game

affects like your role. Because again, you know, it's one of those things as gamers, I don't know that we fully comprehend like you mentioned that you're given a script or you're given lines and sometimes you're not given things in front of that. So you don't know what's coming up in the future. Well, I've got I I've got, I've got a perfect real world example of this, which I think it's totally fine. Oh, I've, I've shared it before, but which is with rogue trade, where I play a companion character. I didn't realize that my character was romanceable in any way until we got to a line, which obviously suggested that I was romanceable in some way until we got to a line which obviously suggested that I was romanceable in some way. So I kind of said it whilst recording for the first time but then I was like whoa

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. So my character's romanceable in this and they were like yeah. I was like once again things that could have been brought to my attention yesterday! Immediately thought back to the last eight hours of recording that I'd done, going, would I have done anything differently there? And it was, you know, in terms of the information that was communicated at that particular time, that was just something that had been skipped slightly as a result. So yeah, it was, and then, and so you've got to kind of make these adaptations on the hoof. But we had the writer in the recording, in all of

the recording sessions as well. And that's where trust essentially comes in. If they're getting what they want, what they need from you, then you've got to trust that. And whatever discovery discoveries happen, happen along the way. And you just kind of got to go with that and be cool. Is there feedback like both ways though? Like if you're, you know, if you have like some writing and you're like, this really, I mean, this would sound way better if I did it this way. This is really bad guys. I mean, that's got to happen.

I don't know who wrote this. This character will not say this at all. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no. I'm sorry. I just, I didn't think I wrote this. This character will not say this at all. Yeah. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I just, I don't think I would say it like that. No, that's a quick way of just being like incredibly precious. It depends. You got to read the room.

There are some people who are definitely like, yeah, if you want to change it, if you think it's better in a certain other way, then by all means change it. Of course, there are other franchises where it's been through so many different levels before it's reached you. Maybe it's gone through translation and someone's had to sign off on it. And all of that, it's kind of like, we cannot change a word. Do not change you are to your, even if it is more in character for you, because this is what has been signed off in terms of the translation and we will have to

re-record it if you insist on recording it in that way because it makes you feel more like an actor. So you just have to have a very honest and open discussion at the get-go in terms of what are the rules with the text. Can I improvise on this at all? Or with voice acting there's a lot of what some people call pre-life. So it's the noises, nonverbal noises that you make before or after or during a line, that kind of thing.

Some directors love it. Some go like, no, we need a clean cue into it. Don't like warm up into the line and then give me the line after, Well, the thing is, it's like, no, we need. Well, the thing is, you know, um, so just act it. So, so, so, so you just need to gauge. So again, you need to be aware of what questions you can ask and how quickly and then make some informed choices off of the back of that. Wow.

So, I mean, I think, uh, we probably think we probably know some of the answers to this, but like what you're talking about here with the directors kind of skidding real hard line on certain ways things are said and types of things, you know, with you kind of branching off. What is your take on this with the emergence of the AI and them doing that and bringing it into this kind of realm? Oh well, I mean the thing with AI, really, I mean the whole ethically sourcing thing is a huge massive thing anyway because like if you're using 11 labs even, that's arguable how ethically sourced that is. I know we're getting to a point where it's like, well it's a copy of a copy of copy so

who cares, right? But it's like, well a lot of people. But anyway, the one thing that you can't really do well with an AI still is direct it exactly. You can tell it, you know, to speak faster generally or slower or put an emphasis on a different word, but it's still ongoing and it's still laborious. So it's kind of like, that will necessarily take a lot more time to do. Also, because there's no cognitive process going through it. It's not understanding what it's saying.

It's it's literally just kind of rereading the thing, you know, observing whatever emphasis that is there. So that's also an issue, I would say, in terms of really nuance, kind of like stuff. It just simply can't do because it doesn't understand what it's saying. And also you will never be surprised, which fundamentally goes back down to why you want to hire voice actors in the first place. If it's purely just to execute a vision that you've already had, you just need it made flesh, then maybe AI will get there eventually at some stage. But if it's like, oh no, I wanna surround myself with people who are better than me at what they do

to up my game and make my writing or my direction or my thing even better, then I don't trust AI to be able to do that because it's still fundamentally a copy of a copy of a copy and it's predicting going on what's been based before and people's, you know, it's the medium, it's the road that's right in the middle. Whereas, sure I can give you a really bad choice on lines two or three, but there'll be a bold choice that's out there if that's been kind of like discussed and my whole job is to kind of surprise you and myself by, oh, actually that moment could work in a completely different way. Oh great, fantastic, now we're actually learning something and it's greater than the sum of its parts as opposed to only ever as

good as the one person's wish. Yeah, there's no discovery. There's no discovery. Yeah, yeah, no exactly. I'm not saying that every single recording session that I do, I definitely blow a director's ears off. Don't be modest. What are you talking about? It's fantastic to have the biggest compliment is when someone says, I never imagined it was going to be like that, but it works. And it works in a different way because it's filtered through my experiences and all of those different kinds of things.

So it's that thin synthesis, that meeting point. So that's when I think it becomes exciting. I think as gamers, I mean, especially just as people in general, AI, everybody's interested in it. We're seeing it more and more in things, but it's also very sterile. I think we can just kind of tell. We see that with graphics. We more and more in things, but it's also very sterile. Like I think we can just kind of tell, like we see that with graphics, we talk about the uncanny valley and it's like, hey, this looks close to a human, but I know there's something weird

and our brains just kind of go, yeah, something's off. And I think we see that or we feel that at least right now, who knows where it's gonna be in five years, but I do think there's that sterileness to it where it's like, yes, it can do something, but there's just no soul behind it. There's no emotion or something like that. And I don't, and I don't know how much of a, this is more in terms of like our, after

we've played the game, but that whole thing of like our feeling about the media. Uh, so for example, you know, the actor who played Arthur Morgan, who I've completely blinded the name. Oh, I know who you're talking about. I can't remember the guy's name. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, like his whole process and how he's spoken about the role

and his approach to the role and all of that kind of stuff is part of the experience of that game, is going into that Roger, whatever his name is. Roger Clark. Yeah, exactly. You know, so delving in kind of behind the scenes in his process and what made Arthur to him and blah, blah, blah. That's all fascinating, you know, insight or Neil

Newbon talking about his approach to a star in and a character that he worked with for four years and how that character changed massively because of who was playing them. You know, what a star in started out as being. And then the thing that, you know, people talk about again and again that Larian did so well is that their writers worked in tandem with the people that they cast. And they then started to write to those people's strengths

and go like, okay, this is something that we can build. So it's a collaborative act as opposed to I'm the genius with all the answers. Do my bidding children, try harder until you get it right. You know, and I know which, which room I would like to be in. Uh, that excites me a great deal more. It's why I can't stand Hideo Kojima. Sorry. I know. No, I get that. But, but I get his, his whole star, whatever thing, you get that sense of, oh, he's such an auteur. Yeah, that's one word I'd use for him. It's like he's probably incredibly nice guy. And

if I ever end up in a project, I'm not there. Like categorically, definitely. But yeah, there's just a vibe there that I'm like, that's not a space that I would necessarily thrive with. And so yeah, I think that opportunity to really riff, I think is great and can be massively undervalued. Cause ultimately, for the end of the day, if I feel replaceable, then I am. And I'm not gonna do my best work. Well, that's what we always try to do,

even with our show here is, we don't wanna have a tight script. We don't wanna have certain exact topics we're going to cover. We'd like to hit some points, but we just kind of hang out and vibe and let it flow and let things go where they're going to go naturally. And you can feel that as a consumer, um, you know, I hope for our listeners, but then also as a consumer of the games, you know, you feel that bond and that connection and you can tell that, that, you know, everything melded together and it's natural.

Yeah. Um, so I love getting this insight into some of the difficulties in like with, you know, like I said, the behind the scenes stuff, like I don't know how writing in a game affects voice actors. And if you kind of shake your head at a line or something like that and go, this is terrible. Um, yeah, you never do that out loud. Yeah. Not outwardly. I get that for sure. And again, this kind of goes back to, I think as gamers,

we sort of think of voice acting as a dream job. And it's one of those things where it's like, I have actually had a couple dream jobs in my life. I was a dolphin trainer for a couple of years. My primary career now is working for a fantasy football podcast. And it's like, so I kind of get the mentality that, oh, this is a dream job. But even as like a dolphin trainer, there's still just the behind the scenes stuff where you're just like, dude, this is still work, man. Like it might seem

really cool, but there's still just some, there's work and there's not the nice parts about a job always, you know, even if it is a dream job. So what is like for you, what is the worst part about voice acting? Is like, I mean, the number one thing is comparison. It's like the, it's the perennial, uh, acting. Uh, but I think it's, we all do it to a degree, you look at your peers and go like, how have they got that? What are they doing right that I'm doing wrong? Fundamentally. Then you add, you know, social media into the mix, because you have to. And

it's amplified even more because obviously, if you're a successful voice actor, you want to leverage that you have to leverage it. So leverage it. So you do take that booth selfie or that I'm outside a studio selfie because it shows people what you're doing. And it's also an affirmation of, yeah, I've got here. Yeah, I'm going to own this. And I'm not going to say like, how dare you, having finally got to that, worked with Side Global or OMUK or pit stop or whatever on this huge kind of franchise, which because of NDA you can't talk about, but anyway, you know, once

you get there, of course you would because otherwise what's it all for? It's a celebration of all of your effort and time. However, at the same time, there are at least 20 people all seeing that story and dying slight inside. I know because I've been on both sides of that every single time. And you can say like, you know, someone else's victory is not my defeat. But there's still that insecurity always of like, what are they doing right that I'm not doing? And not quite knowing, you know, if there is,

it's that lack of autonomy, which is the scary thing, which is why I try and source my own work by building relationships as much as I possibly can organically. And then I'll audition for your stuff but so that I'm one of maybe five or ten options and not one of a hundred options. Because I've been on the other side of casting in the theater world and I've seen it a little bit in the voice acting world. But for a lot of people for that first round of auditions, you've got like a hundred clips of the same of the same ten lines. You're not your ears aren't going to be as fresh about 20 in. Yeah.

Yeah. And by about 40 you're questioning your will to live. By about 60, what are words? By 80, it's kind of like, we've only got 20 to go. So we, I mean, we should and by a hundred, it's like, I don't know what, did we even press play? I can't, I don't know. We don't know that kind of thing.

So that's when you see the whole number of random factors in it. And I think that's, that's probably the toughest thing to do is to kind of like take it on the chin and then keep going and finding ways around it and not questioning yourself too much about it. But you've not got ultimately different directors and different casting people do have different tastes. So there's not a definitive like, well, this is what you need to do to nail an audition because they have everybody would do it. Yeah. tastes. So there's not a definitive like, well, this is what you need to do to nail an audition

because they have- Then everybody would do it. Yeah. Like one casting director who I know is like, if you want to use music in your audition, if you want to change the order of the lines or anything, go for it. Be creative. That's kind of nice. Make it an opportunity to be as creative as possible. I want to be creative in it. I want to see your creative response make it a fun thing It's no surprise that they were originally an actor who have now who's now become a major casting director in video games There are other video game casting directors who are like if you do not deliver

The exact lines in this exact format if you add lib if you do this I will automatically Delete your audition and move on and And you can't, you don't know, you don't know which they're going to be. So, so ultimately you've got to, you've got to take an educated guess. You do a little bit of research whenever you can. You do workshops, you pay for workshops to learn from these people and what they like and what they don't like. So you can make informed choices. The difference between doing an audition ABC ABC or AA BB CC. That is a whole kind of huge thing in terms of line orders and some people prefer one

thing and some people prefer something else. So that's that's it really just trying to keep in the game. Yeah, is the tough spot. That's that's awesome. I did have a quick one I want to ask. Yeah game. Yeah. Is the tough spot. That's awesome. I did have a quick one I want to ask, speaking of just hitting lines and stuff. So when you're, when you're doing these reads and especially before, like you mentioned the cold reads, do you have like a bag of characters that you pull from when you try stuff out or are you hitting them on the spot? Which what you think they're wanting to hear or how's that? Yeah, I have archetypes. Some people would say they're generalizations. But yeah, there

are certain archetypes that you immediately go to. And then I might, I almost certainly will use a little reference like, for example, I use Laban, which is a movement system, which just to make some clear choices. So are they fast or slow? Are they direct? Or are they indirect? You know, are they more ringing? Or Are they direct or are they indirect? You know, are they more ringing or are they more pressing? And it's not like this is definitive, but it just kind of gives me a scaffold immediately. Physicality is kind of what leads it. So where do they lead from? Do they lead from the chest? Do they lead from the nose? Do they lead from the back? Do they lead from the belly? And that will immediately, before you start throwing like, is there a different accent into the mix or anything else like that,

it's the breathing pattern, you know, like how encumbered are they? That kind of thing. So just trying to get a sense of the physicality, which will then affect the voice rather than kind of make an interesting voice first, you know, because that's when it becomes some people are great at being able to do that and they work that way around, but that doesn't work for me. Like I don't like record what my voice is doing and listen back and then fine tune it. I've got to go kind of physicality first and then it comes from there. Wow. That's so cool. I love it. Yeah, this is, I'll be honest, like it's really cool to get this insight because I,

again, I think we have this idea and it's really neat to learn these kind of ins and outs on this. So we got to start wrapping things up a little bit, Chris. So I got to ask a dumb question. Sure, yeah, go for it. But when you do work on a game, do you go back and play that game? Sometimes.

OK, does it depend on just this looks like a fun game or is it like the... Everyone. Everyone. I mean, I would. I'm the kind of person where I would absolutely play them because I want to see like how my work affected it, you know, even if it's critical of myself. I don't need to play the game though to find that stuff now. I guess that's true. It's like part of my job is to kind of like find, find the material so I can build it into my portfolio rather than people, me claim to be in these games, but no one can find the evidence, you know, so, so that's, so, so that's good. But like, um, I don't have a hundred hours to put into a proper playthrough of rogue

trader. I'll be completely honest with that. Like it's my type of game if I had the time to play it. But so I've purchased it. I've played the first five hours of it. Um, whereas, so I've just met myself. So I was like, okay, I'll stop playing now. But, but, but then I'm more interested in other people's experiences of the character and how it's

resonated with them, whereas I'd be kind of second-guessing my choices. And for a lot of the stuff, to be honest, whether it's a character where it's like you're mainly just going, how can I die in however many different kind of ways? Yeah, I'm not going to revisit that because of my performance. Amazing though it may be. It'll be like, either it's my type of game or it's like, oh yeah, that's me. Burning to death for 32.5 seconds. Bang on. Well done. Yeah. And so, and then you were in the game and then they made you buy it?

Uh, I didn't ask them. I could have asked them for a key. But no, generally though, they don't. They don't. Really? Okay. Really? Okay. Yeah. Really? Yeah, no, unless, uh, unless I think maybe if you ask, but it's kind of not frowned on, no one ever suggests it. Um, and also it's quite often with a lot of these, with the bigger games, it's like, so what's this game called? We can't tell you.

When's it being released? Can't say. To the point where like a game that I didn't, you know, there'll be games released and you're like, oh, is that out now? What was that? I don't know. That's funny. Okay.

As people get more savvy and in terms of like the social media possibilities of getting their voice actors on board, that's happening less. But it's still an instance sometimes that you'll just be like, oh, well, that was that thing. Didn't realize. Yeah. Wow. All right, Chris, so as we wrap things up, we did want to take a minute to share some charity work

that you're passionate about. And that's the National Association of Voice Actors. And you are currently a part of the campaign to raise money for voice actors that have been affected by the Los Angeles fires. What can you tell us about that? And where can people go to donate or help that out? So if you just Google NAVA or NAVA, depending on your accent, National Association Association for Voice Actors, they're mainly based in the US, but there

are an international body, obviously fundraising, yes, for victims of the LA fires. A lot of my friends in LA who have like home studios. So not only have they lost their homes, but they've also lost literally their livelihood, you know, the home studios that they've built and constructed to be able to do their work. And so Navva is, you know, set up this kind of GoFundMe. And what they're doing is, you know, people can kind of directly contact them to go into detail about their, their particular situations and Navva will help them out. Navva are kind of like a fantastic representative body for voice actors generally anyway. They're incredible advocates, especially for, you know, rights in terms of AI rights.

Looking after, looking after voice actors in that respect. The rider that even when we were organizing this podcast, I said, could we add this to the contract? Which is great, by the way. Which is great. Yeah. So it's just, it's literally something that any voice actor should make sure is added to their contract if there isn't a clause in there already, just kind of

voice actor should make sure is added to their contract if there isn't a clause in there already just kind of going like, I'm not giving you my rights to giving you the rights to use my voice once it's recorded in any way kind of possible. Because that that is a stipulation that has been in contracts since the beginning of time of recorded media, because no one thought that AI would be a huge thing. So never is kind of first and foremost, like giving people tools to kind of counteract that, but educating people. And they also do a lot of kind of free workshops for voice actors at various different levels as well.

So, as an organization, they are worth checking out if you're interested in voice acting or you're fans of voice actors at all. That's awesome. We're gonna include a link for people in the episode description. But also as a thank you to you and honestly to all the voice actors that bring us

so much entertainment and games, we are actually going to donate $1,000 to Nava as just a thank you for all that you guys all do. That's why you asked for my card details before this. Yes, exactly. We're going to need the three digit code on the back though. Oh, OK. Yeah.

Sure. 0, 0, 7. Yeah, OK. We have mad respect. Thank you, guys. Wow. Thank you. Absolutely.

I mean, thank you for giving your time for us, for our listeners. Again, gamers, I think we genuinely have a lot of respect for voice actors and what you guys do and the enjoyment that you bring to our favorite hobby and the medium and things like that as well. Oh, we missed one clause in that.

Oh, three voice acting lessons for Ryan. Oh, OK. OK. Is that 20? Well, wait a minute. 24 hour. That's leading me into my last question here. And that's do Chris, do you think you could do a better Arnold

Schwarzenegger impression than Ryan? Gosh. Okay. Ryan, do you want to? Ryan, you got to hit us with one. Yeah. Okay. Welcome, Christopher, to the video gamers podcast. Thank you for coming on and joining us today.

No, I can't compete with that. I have never attempted. What are you talking about? You are professional. I'll be back. Yeah, no, it's not happening. I'll do it as an orc. Yeah, it's fine.

But yeah, great. Beautiful. That was a thing of beauty. Well, my bag's empty. That's all he's got. I did put Ryan on the spot. He had no idea that was coming by the way. When I'm sitting here, I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom.

I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm empty, so. Yeah, that's all he's got. Yeah, I did put Ryan on the spot. He had no idea that was coming, by the way. When I'm sick, I can do a pretty killer Kratos, too. So. Oh, wow. Only when he's sick. Yeah.

One time. One time he nailed it. Well, listen, Chris, thank you so much for coming on the show. I mean, this is just honestly, it's been a ton of fun, but it's been really neat to kind of just get this look. Yeah, I'm psyched, too. That was awesome. At voice acting. I mean, this is just honestly, it's been a ton of fun, but it's been really neat to kind of just get this look. I'm psyched. That was awesome. Voice acting. I know it really is. And I think for our listeners, it's very eye-opening on a lot of the things that, you know, it is work. It takes talent. It's not just somebody that maybe is born with a good voice and somehow falls

into jobs and things like that. I mean, sometimes that helps though. Don't get me wrong. I mean, yeah. Oh, I'm sure it does. I'm more for that. Nepo babies, let's go. Yeah, great. But yeah, I mean, yeah, it takes, sometimes it takes a bit of work.

Yes, absolutely. So thank you for just giving us this insight. I mean, it has been awesome to have you on the show. You've been a lot of fun. So thank you for just taking time out of your day and for our listeners to do all that. Thank you for your support of NAVA. Like I said, we're gonna throw in the support there as well.

And we will include a link in the episode description for people that feel like they may have it on their hearts to help out with that as well. So awesome. Well, that does it for this episode, everybody. Thank you, Chris, for joining us. We have a lot more of these kind of looks into the industry and talking to people that make gaming possible and that are, you know, allow us to be passionate about this and just

make it fun. So thank you for what you do, Chris. Thanks again for joining us. That's it for this episode, everybody. If you enjoyed it, make sure you follow, hit that plus button, that follow button in your podcast app. If you haven't done so already, make sure you rate us five stars. We'll see you on the next one. Until then happy gaming. See ya. Thanks for watching!.