Video Gamers Podcast - Valheim: Ashlands, Failed Games and Bye Bye Blizzcon - Video Games Podcast

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

The Video Gamers Podcast is back with another incredible episode of This Week in Gaming. In this video game packed episode, we break down some of the Switch 2 features, remind people how awesome Valheim is with their newest free DLC, discuss when developers should give up on a failed video game and more in another awesome episode from your favorite gaming podcast.  Thanks to our LEGENDARY Supporters: Disratory, Ole Jake and JigglePuff Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Discord: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod  Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU12YOMnAQwqFZEdfXv9c3Q   Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. Hello, fellow gamers of the world. Welcome to another episode of the Video Gamers Podcast. It's Thursday, so you know what that means. It is time for This Week in Gaming, where we give our thoughts on recent gaming news. I am your host, Paul, and joining me, he is one of dozens of players logging into Suicide Squad, Kill the Justice League, and shouting, there are dozens of us. Dozens. It's Josh. Look guys, I told you before this game came out that this was going to be the best game you'd ever played, man. I watched the gameplay videos. I jumped in. I don't listen to anybody else when it comes to my gaming choices and Suicide Squad

is terrible. Oh, poor, poor Suicide Squad. There are so few people playing it, which we're going to get into in a couple minutes. And then joining Josh and me, he's been saving up all his pennies. He's getting ready to drop $250 on Escape from Tarkov for some pay-to-win advantages. It's Ryan. No, no, no. I already bought the other. It's DLC, right? I get it for free.

No? Oh, it's not DLC? Oh, boy. Oh, okay. Oh, boy. We got some stuff to talk about. Actually, right i get it for free no oh it's not dlc oh okay oh boy we got some stuff to talk about actually you do get it if you if you were a person who paid for that you would actually get it i don't know if you guys saw there were some updates to uh escape from tarkov but man we got some fun stories to cover this week guys let's start out with our first story which is about suicide squad kill the justice league but it does also lead to a broader question that i think we can talk about Let's start out with our first story, which is about Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League, but it does also lead to a broader question that I think we can talk about in regards

to games as a service or live service gaming. If any of our listeners aren't familiar with those terms, it just means that there's some kind of ongoing monetization with a game. This kind of started back with MMOs where you had to pay monthly to keep playing. Nowadays, we tend to see this with season passes for future DLC, battle passes, things of that nature. There's basically ongoing payments for ongoing services from a game. Now, this has really changed the gaming landscape dramatically. I looked up a couple of numbers in the gaming industry from 2012 to 2018. EA's value rose from 4 billion to 33 billion.

And during the same time, Blizzard's value went from 20 billion to 60 billion. And live service gaming is not the only reason, but it's a very large reason. Both of those companies report billions of dollars every year through in-game live service monetization. I mean, we even see this outside of games. Microsoft Office, you used to just go buy it at Best Buy, right? You'd pay for the disc, you'd install it, you own it forever. Now they just want to sell you where you pay monthly, but you get all the upgrades. Exact same thing. So Suicide Squad, it's a live service game, did not really hit with

the masses. They have a live roadmap for content coming in the future. And Forbes wrote an article pointing out that the game is peaking with 200 concurrent players on steam when joker became available to unlock the thought was that this would be the biggest get to bring players back there were six days where they hit a thousand players or more concurrently and then right after it went right back to triple digits the game's not even three months old uh so guys you know like what's the answer to that question like at what point should a live service game be abandoned uh when it has 200 concurrent players uh i mean this is we actually know some people you know in our community for you know which is on our discord server it's free to. It's an awesome community. You definitely check it out.

But we had a few people that were playing it and saying, you know what, I'm having a ton of fun with this game. It plays very well. And then two days later, you'd see, hey, you know what, I'm starting to see the faults in this game. And then two days after that, it's like, I think I might be done with this. And so I think the game... We played the beta. They allowed us to hop in the beta and play a little bit. It was super buggy back then. It was not the full release. So I'm not claiming that the beta was the full game, but it just didn't do anything for me. I felt like it was every other game that I'd ever played like that. But when you only have 200 people playing your live service game, these are games that are supposed to keep people engaged. If you want a good example,

look at Helldivers 2. Helldivers 2 is one of, if not the best live service game I think I've ever seen done. I mean, the drip feed that they give you of content and updates and new things to do and just creatures to come across and stratagems and all that is, in my opinion, flawless. Oh, yeah. And so this is what Suicide Squad was supposed to be. And boy, is it apparently not. And I think at that point, you're just spinning your wheels, dude. I feel bad for the developers of this game. I think we kind of saw the writing on the wall, and I don't want to come across as saying we told you so because I do know people that enjoyed it. But we kind of said, hey, I don't see the longevity in this game. It's not something

that interests me. And now you have 200 people playing. Are you going to keep dumping hundreds and hundreds of man hours into trying to somehow update this game to make it savable? Or do you just say, dude, we're sorry. This is not what we intended. We missed the mark. Obviously, we're just going to scrap it and move on. Like if you're only upsetting 200 people at that point, you just cut bait and run, man. Yeah, and that was the peak. The 200 was the peak.

I mean, that says something, man. So this is what I'm going to tell you. So I did some stuff on Steam charts this morning, just looking for just crazy obscure games, games that were really old that aren't, like, kind of big-time AAA titles or anything like that. So this is what I found. So as of this morning, it was at 213 players for Suicide Squad.

Peak! 213. So, and at the same time, I also looked at these games. So City Bus Manager was at 231 players this morning at the same time as Suicide Squad. That came out two years ago. Trophy Fishing 2 from 2017 was at 241 players. And Lego Lord of the Rings from 2012, 12 years ago, was 220 players.

So all of those games had more players in it this morning than Suicide Squad. Which is three months old. Yeah. And a huge AAA title that was really anticipated. That was the thing. It was huge. This is no indie developer. This is a AAA title.

It was marketed as that. Rocksteady Studios is the one that developed it, who made the Arkham games. Yeah. You know, I mean, they have a good pedigree. This is, in my opinion, where when you try to make a live service game with the intention of this is going to make us a lot of money, and you're not focusing on what makes games fun, this is the price you pay. And I hate it for the developers of the game. I genuinely do. I feel like this was a publisher mandated thing. We saw way, way back when, when they released kind of an in-depth gameplay where everybody was swinging from the skies and stuff like that. And it was just like, what are you doing? This is, in my

opinion, where it goes drastically wrong when publishers are dictating how developers should make a game. Yeah, with the business model. Yeah. Yeah. And the problem is everyone wants to make the next Fortnite. But guess what? For every one Fortnite or Helldivers 2, you've got 700 other live service games that fail. But if you hit that one, it's worth it. So as long as those games perform well, publishers are going to keep swinging for the fences because you could fail 130 times. But if you hit on that one, that's now your cash cow

and you're fine and good to go. You know what, though? I mean, we're good. We're going to talk about a game that is not a live service game. That was a very small development team that make gobs of money here in just a minute. And it can work free updates. You know what I mean? Right.

And that's what I'm saying. These people are swimming. They're swimming in gold right now, man. There's just dollar bills that they're wiping their nose with, you know? And it's like, so it can work. It doesn't all need to be live service. And it sucks for gamers because a lot of people bought this game thinking I'm going to get hundreds of hours out of it. It'll be live service. Maybe they even ponied up for the

deluxe edition and dropped a hundred bucks on it. And at some point they're going to have to just say, we're no longer making money. There's not a big enough fan base to care. It's just time to cut the cord. And they're not alone. I mean, payday three is in like the exact same position. They're averaging. Yeah. Yeah. They're averaging about 200 people online on PC as well, which is such a bummer. All right. before we move into our next story, if you like what we do here on the Video Gamers Podcast, please consider supporting us on Patreon. You can head over to MultiplayerSquad.com. Starts at just five bucks a month, all kinds of perks, shout out on the show, bonus episodes, ad-free episodes a day early. Go check it out. We would

love for you guys to help support what we do here. All right, let's talk a little bit about the Switch 2. So looks like the Switch 2 is probably releasing next year. Some news broke out this week because of accessory manufacturers, which is kind of funny. And we got some, I would say, pretty substantiated rumors about the new Joy-Con controllers. It looks like they are going to be bigger, which makes sense because the switch to has a larger screen. So the controllers will be a little bit larger and it seems that the joy cons will connect to the switch to with magnets instead of using the rail approach of the switch one magnets

getting your Jesse Pinkman on from uh yeah science all right now uh i mean i'm excited to have the switch too i i'm not so sure about using magnets to connect the joy cons what do you guys think i this is man. It's hard to imagine them getting that right. I, if this is your big update, man, magnets over like sliding them down and clicking them. Like, remember when the Switch came out, what was the little animation, right? It was the- It still is.

It was the click sound, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm putting the controllers in and click. It's like, this is what you marketed this product as is like your catchphrase almost. And it's like, are these magnets? Well, they better click in, buddy. But like the problem I have, and this has nothing to do with my love of or not love of like mobile gaming and the Switch and things like that.

Nintendo has always been about innovating. Innovating consoles and control schemes and things like that nintendo has always been about innovating innovating consoles and control schemes and things like that i mean and now their innovation is magnets and a bigger screen like nintendo what are you doing man well i mean the switch after the success of the switch it's the it's the second most successful console of all time you know what what had success? They're not going to change that much. The Game Boy had success. The N64 had success. The GameCube had success. Wii U, not so much.

You know, but it's like, but they had success with all these things. This is Nintendo. So it's like, are they just losing it? Like, I don't know, man. Like everybody kind of went like, what's the next innovation? And you're telling me the next innovation is magnets?

How do they work? Sure. Magnets. How do they work? I think as long as they fix, I mean, it's good that it's a little bigger. You know, we have grown up hands, not teeny little baby hands. Joy-Cons are hard to use, at least with my ogre hands. It's pretty rough.

I don't think the Joy-Cons are getting bigger, are they? It's just the screen. Yeah, the Joy-Cons are bigger, too. joy cons are hard to use at least at least with my ogre hands there it's pretty rough yeah i mean joy cons are getting bigger are they it's just the screen yeah the joy cons are bigger too i mean for the switch how much bigger which will yeah millimeters i know right which will help a little bit i i'm not a big fan of the joy cons anyways i just have uh like wireless controllers that i use with the switch um but i mean as long as they fix the dang uh stick drift like i have a bigger yeah i have like four controllers they all have the same thing so i can't really i mean there's not too much i can play on anyways without fixing that stick drift you know how much money they make off of stick drift i know right they're like 70 per joy con they're wildly expensive now i mean there there

is some good news that if you have uh whatever it's called like the switch pro controller yeah that's going to be compatible with the switch too which is great to hear yeah the magnets are kind of interesting because on the one hand they have to be strong enough that they're not going to slide at all but then if you make them too powerful like i'm sure you guys have probably played with like the neodymium magnets or whatever they're called those can be so strong that like even an adult can't pull them apart so how are they going to walk the line where like five-year-olds are going to be able to remove these joy cons but it's not loose enough to slide i'm i'm a little skeptical about this i was a little

surprised yeah playing handheld where like that's a pivot point you know where you're holding the controller and then the screen's in the middle so yeah i i'm interested to see how they do it but i don't know i'm just not a big fan of the whole joy con as it is yeah i'm totally with you well clearly they're not swinging for the fences with the switch too and i don't think that's a surprise the switch one works if it works why they're gonna sell a gajillion of them they're gonna sell a gajillion of them the switch 2 like come on man i just i'm a little disappointed that their advertising thing right now is guys we have magnets well to be fair they're not they're not advertising well all right sure i mean i get it but i don't have a lack of innovation let's say

sure yeah there's no question it'll be higher resolution it'll have higher frame rate than the switch one is that much to write home about probably not but that's kind of what we're going to be working with all right let's go ahead and take a short break and then we'll come right back and talk about escape from tarkov all right escape from tarkov very interesting game not made for everybody josh and i weren't huge fans but it definitely popularized the whole like hardcore extraction shooters yeah seems to not be able to stay away from controversy. You know, cheaters continue to be an issue and escape from Tarkov. Well, this week they have brought to us the unheard edition, which by the way is a terrible name.

I don't know who came up with that. It comes at a whopping price of $250. The problem or one of the problems is that people who paid a hundred dollars previously for the edge of darkness edition were promised all future dlc for free with the game it was like buying a lifelong pass well uh the what's their name battle state battle state games came out and said even if you have the edge of darkness edition you got to pay the full $250 for the Unheard edition. Now, the Unheard edition brings in some PvE content that you can play by yourself, but it does also carry things that people have labeled pay to win. Like it gives you more loot

spaces. It gives you a leg up skill-wise after a wipe. And so people have been labeling it pay to win. And people who have already paid for the lifelong pass weren't going to get it for free. There was a huge outcry. Battlestate came out and said, okay, we hear you. We'll fix the problem. We'll give you the unheard edition for six months, but then we're going to pull it back. And then if you want it, you're going to have to pay the full 250. And then I think the outcry got even worse after they came out and said that so battle state games look to their credit they folded they said okay okay okay if you paid for the lifelong pass we can see why you would consider this dlc because it is so now they are giving it to everyone who

did pay for edge of darkness but how did they not see this outcry they were shocked at this right how did they not see this money money money yeah money money money money so you know because you guys know i do so much homework and research on all the things we talk about i went on to the escape from tarkov subreddit today oh no toxic i'm surexic, I'm sure. Did you escape? Did you wear a hazmat suit? I did escape from Reddit. Yes. Extracted.

But they were commenting on this, and here's where things started to go wrong. When they announced this PVE expansion, they said, this is not DLC. And everybody went, yes, it is. And they said, no, it's not DLC. It's new content you download. No, no. This uses different servers. It's PvE versus PvP. It's not DLC, you guys. And that was their story and they were sticking to it like legitimately this is where they really started

to tick people off because you can't call additional content to a game that is already there and then say it's not dlc guys it's completely different because everybody's gonna go well then what the heck did i pay for what do you consider dlc and they try to say oh it's like cosmetic pack that we sold you a little while ago. That's DLC. And everybody went, heck no, it's not. Give us what we paid for. And then they dug themselves a hole on this one, man, like big time. And with the pay to win stuff, because Escape from Tarkov is a competitive game with the extraction shooter nature and stuff like that. It was even, if I remember right, like one of the perks was that the scavs that are in the game will not

shoot at you. If you have this unheard edition as well, you're at a certain reputation with fence. Yeah. They won't even shoot. So then it's like, this is absolutely pay to win stuff. Yeah.

And then trying to claim that this is not DLC was, I think what really infuriated people. Now, it is good to hear. Initially, they tried to come out and say, hey, listen, we hear you. We want you to be happy, guys. We're going to knock $40 off the price of the $250 game that we're trying to sell you because you whined about this. And everybody went, what the heck, man? That's not, no. And so it is good to hear that they back down. The problem is they didn't want to back down, dude. This isn't like an, oh, oops, we made a mistake. Sorry about that. This was like, oh no, we've really ticked people off. They need to take

a lesson from Blizzard and really tick people off and then back down just a little bit so that you still kind of get what you want it seems like you're really working for the people and then people will forget and then they'll still give you tons of money blizzard mastered that you know so just take some lessons there but i mean dude what are you doing yeah it's like gas when they put gas up to like 450 a gallon yeah then it's back down to 375 you're like gas when they put gas up to like $4.50 a gallon. And then it's back down to $3.75. You're like, oh, nice. I found gas at a good price today. Yeah. But I thought it was hilarious when I looked and I saw, you know you're in a bad place.

This is one of the quotes on the articles we're reading. The reaction to the new edition has been so negative that all but three channels in the official Escape from Tarkov Discord server have been silenced with users not even being able to post. Like, when you've got to lock down your Discord because people are so pissed off, like, you know it's a bad situation. Yeah, you've done something real bad. I kept picturing it as, like, the meme where they're all in the office room, and they're all talking about how to monetize this new quote-unquote feature. And then the one guy goes, isn't this a DLC?

And they just throw him out the window. You know, it shows them from the outside getting thrown out the window but it's just it's one of those things man they they they just it's not how do we make gamers happy and well also making money it's how can we squeeze every little last penny out of everybody now so i don't know it's it's wild yeah and when you've promised all future dlc for free and you start arguing these technicalities around language it you feel taken advantage of as a gamer guys forget the dlc forget the whole thing let's pretend for a minute okay that this was a brand new product that just is under the escape of you know escape from tarkov banner right and so the gamers are wrong in this case what are you doing trying to charge 250 dollars for pve content like this is it's such an overreach

this is the problem right is it's not they're not saying hey this is 50 bucks oh you guys want it for free oh okay you're trying to charge 250 a video game. This is wrong on every level, man. But we know people who have paid for it because they can't help themselves. I know, but this is the thing. We're seeing this outcry against developers and these shady monetary practices, and I'm glad that people are starting to raise their voice. Right. At the same time, if you're buying it, you're, you're fostering that problem, you know, and, and gamers like to, we like to whine about sometimes little things like invisible barriers and star field, you know, and we kind of go, guys, we have to be realistic to some degree about how much we're going to nitpick things, but $250, not giving it to the people that paid for

lifetime DLC and stuff like that. This is where things are going drastically wrong. And I'm glad that we are outcrying things as gamers because we have to draw this kind of practice back in a little bit. Yeah. Well, up to this point in the show, we've been pretty critical and pretty negative on these stories. Let's talk about one that's a little bit brighter, something that we can really celebrate here. So Valheim, one of our favorite games ever. So good. I mean, we loved Valheim.

We talked about it so much. It's probably been brought up more than any other game on this podcast, except maybe Rust. Go to our leaderboard. Go to our leaderboard, videogamerspod.com, and see where we rank Valheim. That'll tell you everything you need to know about how great this game is. Yeah. I think you and I both have it in our top 13, 13 or 14, Josh. So this week, we got a trailer for a free update to Valheim and they have released several free updates. This one is called Ashlands. And just as a side note, guys, $20 is like one of the best ways to spend it is buying something like Valheim. They have given now Ashlands, which is going to be available for free they have free public testing

of it right now it has lots of lava smoke fire all that kind of stuff that you would expect and it looks like a really cool update i mean what like what's some of the stuff that kind of grabbed your attention josh everything everything in this trailer grabbed my attention it's an all new land it looks like it has new mechanics because they show a guy throwing like a rock into lava and creating like a little platform to where it's like, is there platform puzzles now? Like jump puzzles would be great. There's all kinds of new monsters. It looks like there's magic in the game now with like, we haven't played Valheim in a long time. Like Mistlands I know has released and we didn't jump back into Mistlands either. We did actually hop back into Valheim for a little bit and we kind of just went, we blew through the content because we knew what we were doing at that point. And then we just kind

of fizzled out again. I think this expansion looks incredible. It brings so much. There's new bosses. There's new fighting mechanics and things like that um you know and this is again this this company releases this game out of nowhere it's a very small develop i think they had like five to twelve people if i remember right on their i think it was five in the beginning yeah do you know how many we we just talked about suicide squad and the the amount of money and development that went into that and how it bombed. Valheim to date has sold 12 million copies. At 20 bucks a piece is $240 million, dude. This is how you make a game. This is how developers need to do it without the publishers

trying to slog them through this and turn everything into a live service game. $240 million for this small developer because they made a game that is absolutely fun. You can play it with your friends. It has tons of content. It's constantly updated. It's constantly fixed. They're always tweaking it. This is what we want, man. And so we have to be able to stand up and praise them and say, thank you for making an incredible game and thank you for continuing to do it. I'll tell you right now, dude, if they came out and they said, listen, we have a paid DLC for Valheim, I will give them my money just to say thank you for that. Even if I don't intend on playing it, you know what I mean? At this point, because that is the way that it should be done yeah let's just business i mean doing doing things

the right way to where the people want to come back you're just gonna continue on so yeah i mean i i haven't played it anywhere near like what you guys have with this game so i don't have the same connection but everything i saw and then everything i've read i mean i like to go through a lot of times the comments on youtube and stuff uh when they release these and see what the community is. And it was overwhelmingly positive. Everybody's just so excited, so stoked. Like no microtransactions, no DLC costs, just pure content, joy, and all that for $15. You know, the gift that keeps on giving.

So I think it's awesome. I'm super stoked. I hope that we kind of dip into this and maybe check it out because I would love to get lost in something like this. I know I would. Yeah. There's some other stuff that looks cool. They showed like some siege vehicles in the trailer. At one point, it even looked like maybe mounts.

So I don't know if they've added mount writing. They added some. Yeah, you can see the guy writing some lizard thing. I mean, there's new mechanics. If you build something with wood in the Ashlands, it'll catch on fire. They showed those magical domes almost over the village that people had built and stuff like that. I mean, I love just about everything. Yeah, they had boats previously, but...

Were they the same with the hot water where they'd catch on fire they'd get destroyed i think that's because it's in the ashlands and wood has the opportunity to catch on fire but yeah it seems like they're always adding new mechanics to this game as well if you have not checked out valheim you absolutely owe it to yourself to play this we've always said solo it's it's a very fun game but it really really shines with friends um i've been telling i've been like literally telling my daughter because she plays with her boyfriend and her other friends i'm like you guys have absolutely got to get valheim you will love this game and it's one of those ones where they just they kind of just stuck in the same three games that they play but i've been pushing valheim so much because it's such a good game well and you can

play with up to 10 people so you know what instead of dropping 250 for the unheard edition of escape from tarkov you can buy 10 versions of valheim for less money yeah and you're gonna have more fun oh absolutely guaranteed yeah yeah and give out those nine keys to your buddies all right so moving on to our last story of the week this is is a short one here, but BlizzCon, which is held annually by Blizzard, it has been canceled for 2024. I mean, I guess it's not a total surprise, right? Like we had the disillusion of the Overwatch League. We know that Blizzard canceled the upcoming survival game that we had talked about quite a bit nothing's really on the horizon for blizzard so i guess i'm not terribly shocked but it's still sad like i i it it still

makes me sad to think of the state that blizzard is in it's the passing of an era to be honest like blizzcon used to be one of the most fun things that you could go to it It was like E3. I mean, it was really up there with just the peak of these live events. And you hate to see it. I mean, I know I'm being hypercritical this episode. We're not normally like this, but I mean, this is what's in the news right now too. And I feel like it's just a little bit of like, you reap what you sow, you know? And this is Blizzard kind of, you know, getting a little bit of like, you know, pushback. Yeah, they made their bed, man. Like, you know, you've become something that you were not a decade ago. And that's really sad to a lot of people.

I know we have kind of lamented that as well. But they're just going to keep doing it because they're making so much money. It's absolutely ridiculous. That's crazy, too. And they just keep making all that money. I mean, Blizzard was king for what? 2018? They were the king of games, though. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That was the thing. They were the king of games. Now they're the king of money. And I hate that do you think microsoft had a a good play in this as far as canceling the blizzcon i don't know man i mean you know i get that they these things lose money and maybe they're not generating enough hype and and things like that and i mean i think honestly it's probably detrimental i think they're smart in the sense that it's like hey we're not gonna do blizzcon

this year because we don't really have anything to showcase. People are mad about our $60 horse still. So we can't show off our super expensive DLC stuff that we were going to do. We don't have anything really in the works that we're ready to show. So what kind of BlizzCon are we going to do? And then somebody went, yeah went yeah you're probably right we should just cancel that well shockingly i looked it up just for kicks diablo immortal still brings in over six million dollars uh per month oh my god that's so when you've got overwatch 2 you've got diablo immortal they have their cash cows they're doing fine financially in that regard but do you remember the good old days of oh you guys don't have cell phones yeah you know like like the fact that we don't even have blizzcon anymore here for this year is just

so sad uh what a bummer but what are you gonna do you know i was very excited about their survival game i would have loved to see that i too, because we love survival games too. But hey, you know what? Takeaway, go play Valheim. Buy it. Support those developers. They're still working hard. It's an absolutely fantastic game.

I wish that we could get back into it, to be honest. We just don't have time, and we've done it twice now. Yeah, I don't know that we will again. Yeah, but play it. It's fun fun support those guys all right well that wraps up this week in gaming as a reminder please go check out support options at multiplayer squad.com to get those bonus episodes and to help keep our show running you can also rate us five stars you can follow us on socials everywhere at video gamers pod

we hope that you'll join us again for our next episode on Monday. Until next time, happy gaming. See ya. All right, see ya, everybody.