Voices of Freedom - Interview with Mark Klug

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

An Interview with Mark Klug, Chief Executive Officer, Christian Family Solutions Public awareness about mental health has never been greater, but barriers to treatment remain. According to our guest on this episode of Voices of Freedom, integrating faith with proven therapeutic treatment can have a transformational impact on those who are dealing with anxiety, depression or who are healing from trauma. Mark Klug, CEO of Christian Family Solutions (CFS), says that a faith-based approach to addressing mental health can build a level of hope and sense of inherent worth in every individual. He shares these insights and more. Topics Discussed on this Episode: ·         Mark’s background in the behavioral health field and what drives him to serve people ·         The impact of Christian-based counseling on those who use it ·         The underlying issues contributing to the rise in mental health issues among youth. ·         Redefinitions of mental health and how Social and Emotional Learning can undermine a child’s resilience ·         CFS’s onsite counseling services and how it works in schools ·         CFS’s new day treatment program, one of the first of its kind in the nation ·         Community Counseling Care Partnership, which works with congregations to identify and serve people in the community who are experiencing challenging personal issues ·         The key ingredients to leading a fulfilling life About Mark Klug: Mark Klug is the CEO of CFS, a position he’s held for ten years. Founded in 1965, CFS offers a range of counseling services from a Christian perspective to people of all ages. Specifically, CFS has developed a robust school-based counseling program to reach children who would otherwise have difficulty accessing mental health services. 

Hello and welcome to Voices of Freedom, a Bradley Foundation podcast. I'm Rick Graber, president and CEO of the Bradley Foundation. On the podcast, we'll explore issues that affect our freedoms with a focus on free enterprise, free speech, and educational freedom. So let's get started. Throughout the course of life, we all encounter obstacles that are tough to overcome, just part of being human. Yet, certain struggles are tougher than others.

Death of a loved one, loss of a job, family conflict, health problems, addiction, they're all examples of acute challenges that can lead to a state of hopelessness and despair. In fact, nearly half of U.S. adults will experience some kind of mental health condition during their lifetime. Our guest today deeply understands today's mental health environment, including the record levels of anxiety and depression, unfortunately, among our young people. Mark Plove has served as CEO of Christian Family Solutions, commonly known as CFS, for 10 years now. It's an organization that offers a range of counseling services from a Christian

perspective to people of all ages. Specifically, CFS has developed a robust school-based counseling program to reach children who would otherwise have difficulty accessing mental health services. Mark has over 25 years of experience working in the behavioral health field and joins us to share his insights. Mark, it is wonderful to have you. Thanks so much for joining. Well, thank you. I'm humbled and honored to be a part of this. And thank you to the Bradley Foundation for so much of your support. You've made an impact

in this community and I'm proud to be a part of it. Well thanks so much and it's our pleasure to be a partner with you. Mark, let's talk a little bit first about you, if we can. You've worked in the behavioral field for many, many years. You've encountered individuals who have experienced trauma and chronic mental health issues, crises of all sorts. That's hard work. That's tough. That's challenging. How did you decide to get into this field? How did you choose this career path? Yeah, my journey really began when I was at the University of Wisconsin-Lacrosse. I needed to fund my education, so I worked at a psychiatric hospital at St. Francis Hospital

in La Crosse, Wisconsin on the psychiatric unit. It was there where I really met an incredible team of individuals working with very chronic patients. And those patients were coming in with psychosis and detox and severe mental health issues. And I continued to work on a level where I saw them incredibly impaired and also getting incredibly well by a multidisciplinary team approach, evidence-based practice back then, back in the 90s. And so, I graduated and went to Milwaukee in the early 90s, worked at several psychiatric hospitals, and then I worked at Rogers Behavioral Health, Rogers Memorial Hospital at the time in the mid-90s,

and worked on their admissions department when I first started in the mid-90s, and then developed some work as a national outreach person, going to a lot of national conferences and meeting some incredible people, nationally renowned clinicians that talked about severity and eating disorders and anxiety disorders and PTSD, personality disorders, addictions. And it was really an incredible experience where it really also formed an opinion of where solid evidence based practice can really move individuals and develop really good outcomes. And so, in 2015, the board at Wisconsin Lutheran Child and Family Service, known as Christian Family Solutions, wanted me to have this up as CEO. And I was just very privileged and honored to be a part of that

back nine years ago. And I saw evidence-based practice and the quality of Christian principles and an incredible team work together and develop a strength of an integrated factor. And I just really wanted to help lead that. And since I've been here, we've had 30 clinicians and now we have over 110 clinicians, health services in higher levels of care or child adolescent day treatment program and school-based counseling. And it's just really important to see how we can develop services that are meaningful to the community. And I've just been really proud to be a part of that ever since.

And so we continue to do that today because the integration of faith and the development of evidence-based practice is just really an important way that I feel that we can produce better outcomes. And we're seeing that time and time again after we have studied it. Let's drill down a little bit on that, Mark. You mentioned that CFS takes a Christian-based approach to its services. How does that work in a practical sense? And what's the impact that it has on the people that your team serves?

Yeah. And thank you for that question because at CFS, we firmly believe that every individual has inherent worth and purpose. Our approach to mental health care is rooted in the power and foundation of Christian principles and our goal is not only provide an evidence-based treatment approach, but to also help build things like character and instill a level of hope with each individual, regardless of their age and background. And so, what makes our approach unique is that we are integrating the power of approach unique is that we are integrating the power of gospel principles with proven therapeutic methods. And there is a growing body of research that is really intriguing.

And Dr. Harold Koenig of Duke University has been studying this for quite some time. I actually witnessed him at Rogers Behavioral Health in some presentations, we built a workshop with him. And I saw his work continue to grow. And as a foremost researcher, he looked at spirituality and religion and how it integrated with solid evidence-based practice. And he saw better outcomes and that research grew. And it really was an impacting amount of research that also impacts us today. And so at CFS, we've taken that further and we have a doctor by the name of Dr. Brandon Hayes, a psychologist that also is a very good researcher and knows statistics very well. And we also partnered with Dr. Barry Duncan and his software called Better Outcomes Now.

And we studied our work here and how we've applied integrated practice. And we have found and how we've applied integrated practice, and we have found that our work is meaningful and shows large effect size. And so, when we benchmark it against the traditional services and our services, we find that that large effect size is really separating itself in some areas, especially when a person is aligned with us. And that connection is also an important variable or factor that is important to whether or not a person can have good outcomes. And so when we provide a connection to aligned faith and aligned belief systems, we can also have a connection that builds a successful outcome as well. And that is an important part of how we deliver our care to this day and how we try to build our training and how we build our counseling sessions to each individual

and how we work with our pastors and our psychologists and other evidence-based practice individuals that know this work and train our individuals very well. So ultimately what we do at CFS is provide therapy that achieves these sustained gains, enhance healing, not just from symptom relief, but also doing everything we can to achieve more of a lasting transformation of mental health gains to each and every individual that is open to this type of work. The answer to that, I mean, have you gotten pushback in some quarters on the Christian based approach? Is that controversial within the field or?

Dr. Seheult. Yeah, there has been some pushback but it seems to be that especially the growing body of research has helped us and reduced that stigma and more and more people are looking for this type of therapy and this integrated approach and so we're finding it to gain traction that stigma. And more and more people are looking for this type of therapy and this integrated approach. And so we're finding it to gain traction that way. And that even though we have some that will question us on this type of approach, by far the most of our providers and individuals that work with us really do appreciate this work and see and witness the outcomes that we produce. So it's been very rewarding. Terrific.

From what you read and hear, mental health seems to, in many ways, disproportionately affect young people these days. For sure, the pandemic must have played a factor in that, certainly. Social media is often blamed, and I guess that's not a surprise at all. What do you think are the underlying societal issues that have contributed to this rise in adolescent

depression and anxiety? Well, the rise in adolescent depression and anxiety is very deeply concerning. And we know that the pandemic and social media plays a role in that. We've seen it, we've witnessed it firsthand. Individuals have more social isolation. They have overwhelming academic pressure today. There's economic uncertainty and family instability. Inflation has taken a toll on some of these families that really is concerning. And then in our city itself, we do see more exposure to violence and trauma and adverse

childhood events that just really affect these kids and these families. And so they struggle. And it definitely leads us to understand that there is the increased anxiety and depression and behavioral issues because of these types of environments. So it is concerning and we continue to try to provide education, presentations, and work oriented to it. Adam Ligato You think it's just more complicated than when we were kids? You've been watching this for 25 years.

Dr. John Baxter Well, I think we're more sophisticated in diagnosing, we're more sophisticated in our tools and measuring it. But the field is dynamic and it changes quite a bit in some areas. And there's even technology that comes to be a part of this. And it's interesting to witness all this. What is not very common though, is strong integration factors. And that's why we love to study it from our level of integration and make sure that we're doing the best we can to affect outcomes. Adam Felsenfeld Yeah. I mean, if there is a greater awareness of the widespread nature of these issues that

we're talking about, that seems like a good thing. But it also seems to be the case that more people are redefining mental health to mean whatever they want it to mean, which, as a layman, strikes me as dangerous. For example, some education and health care professionals use the term social and emotional learning to promote programs that may end up actually undermining the resilience of a child. Can you talk to that at all? Well, raising this awareness is important. There's positive developments to this. We want to reduce stigma. However, that awareness comes with responsibility to ensure that the

solutions being offered truly strengthen individuals rather than unintentionally weaken resilience. And so, we believe that that resilience is built through a combination of faith, strong relationships, and an evidence-based healthcare could really make an impact. And we recognize that the practices like social and emotional learning, SEL, have been introduced in educational and healthcare settings with good intentions. However, the way that some of these programs are implemented can vary significantly and some approaches can effectively equip children with emotional regulation and coping skills, while others

may inadvertently encourage avoidance and more avoidance rather than challenging and fostering perseverance to them. There's a growing perspective that resilience is developed when individuals are encouraged to face their adversity and then with the right support and with guiding Christian values and sound clinical principles. And so thinking this through, the best way we've done that is this, again, providing a strong mental health support, empowering individuals rather than promoting fragility. And that is why we like the

integration approach and the faith-based guidance that we're providing. And I think the families are really responding to this in a way that they understand what we're rooted in rather than some of these other approaches. Powerful. Let's talk a little bit more about CFS, your organization's work, which in many respects is groundbreaking. I know in 2008, you established a school-based counseling program, which brings mental health professionals into the schools. The program has a particular focus on urban schools where it's just a fact that there's often a concentration of students that are facing behavioral and emotional challenges. What led you to the decision to provide those on-site services and talk about the impact that it's had on students and their

families? Yeah, and another good question. I mean, school-based counseling is just so important, and we're trying to actually meet these children where they're at in their learning environment. So many of these students, again, struggle so much, and they have so many barriers to entry, whether it be financial, access, transportation, all these barriers are concerning. So if we're actually in the schools and we provide a counselor that's there, a licensed clinician that, or maybe in training, that is really helping with building a connection with the faculty and with a connection sometimes to the church and school, understanding

how they develop their academic curriculum, understanding how they develop social areas that may be a part of how we deliver the care. Then we align with that school to the best of our ability. And then the students are there in that learning environment and they can come to us, hopefully in between classes or when they're not necessarily in some of the core classes that they're in, and really get some good counseling sessions and develop that in a way that the therapist is aligned with them through the school year. We even have chances to continue that in the summer now and develop a strong approach because these kids sometimes really fall off the cliff

in some words. We'd like to do that throughout the year. And developing that strong relationship with the schools can sometimes be the start of that intervention. And then we'd like to continue that as much as possible. And sometimes we see kids school year after school year because they really have some deep rooted issues and some rough family dynamics that we need to work through. How's that work? Did the schools reach out to you? Do you approach the schools? Yeah. Well, we actually have a lot of schools that are reaching out to us. We're in over, I think 30 plus schools from Wisconsin to to us. We're in over, I think, 30 plus schools from Wisconsin to Minnesota, but we're highly concentrated, probably 20 schools just in

the heart of the city of Milwaukee area. And through our reputation, through good outcomes, through testimonials, through word of mouth, people are saying they want a part of this. And so we've developed a strength of that relationship. We've had to look at a good partnership where they're helping sometimes fund this because we get such little reimbursement and they challenge us in that partnership, but that's actually worked out well because we can provide more therapists and counselors at a level where they really are developing a strength of not just providing counseling, but attaching to the school in more of a meaningful way.

And so when schools hear about the work that's being done and it's more than just a counseling session that we can provide, they really are very interested in us and it does build that word of mouth. And so at times we have more schools that are interested in us than we have counselors. So we're developing a pipeline through Wisconsin Lutheran College and Bethany Lutheran College to help us with really well-trained clinicians and we're very blessed to also have that pipeline. Is that a problem? Is there a shortage of talented professionals in your field?

There is a shortage. Statistics that show the ratio of clinicians, social workers to the need is at a shortage and deficit across the nation. What gets really tough is that this is an area where clinicians get a master's level but they get some of the lowest compensation in that field and so it's not necessarily a field where clinicians gravitate to, where individuals gravitate to. So it can be difficult for us to try to recruit on a level where they can look at other vocations. What's interesting though is that this is one vocation where it's very hard to replicate with software, AI, and other things.

And so there is job security there. About eight years ago, Mark, CFS launched a new day treatment program called STRONG, and that's for students who require more intensive intervention. It's the first program of its kind in the state of Wisconsin and one of the very first in the nation. Often participants in STRONG are kids that are at the risk of or about to be expelled from their school. Talk to us about some of the challenges that some of these children are trying to navigate or overcome or how strong can put them on a better path.

Yeah, the Strong Child Ineligible Day Treatment Program is a licensed child ineligible day treatment service in the state of Wisconsin. So we provide a multidisciplinary approach with overseen psychologists and nurses, nurse practitioner, licensed clinicians, and supportive mental health staff. And we, I learned a lot of this from Rogers Behavioral Health, providing day treatment can make a real impact, Especially for us, what was really unique is that we wanted to put it right into the heart of the city. So it's on Alton and Burley. And so we wanted to be in the community rather than outside

of the community. We wanted to actually have attention to community needs and really try to recruit from the neighborhoods, the best support staff and clinicians that we could. And we are making a difference that way and in such a reputation that it is actually building referrals throughout the metro city area. And it's a higher level of care. So it's three hours a day. And so they can go to school half a day

and still try to be in school and ideally get their core work done. And then it's five days a week for not just weeks, but sometimes months because some of these kids are just from such tough environments, sometimes war zone environments, they have such problems at home and with violence and in trauma. And so we're really getting some of the kids at their worst in terms of behavioral and trauma. And we're doing a lot of work with them right off the bat with evidence-based practice work and with trauma-informed care. And it is really making a difference for a lot of these kids. We have the ability to treat them at a longer level of treatment

and an ability to work with them at such a level that we work with their families and their treatment providers. And ideally, if we can work with them at such a level that we work with their families and their treatment providers. And ideally, if we can work with all of them, we have a ripple effect. When that child is progressing, they could ideally also help with the community and with their family and ideally go back to school and hopefully be very successful rather than looking at expulsion and not being a part of a really good snowy academic environment. So these are kids that just can't function in a whole day of school without help. Is that right?

Many of these children are not able to really stay in class, are unable to focus. Some have internalizing types of behaviors where they have anxiety and depression and so they're just not doing well with that area of mental health. What we do, we have quite a few, a larger percentage of kids that really struggle with attention and with hyperactivity and with just regulating their emotion. And a lot of them come from trauma. And so, the trauma informed care that we work with, it's called Trust-Based Relational Intervention, TBRI. This work was done by a team at Texas Christian University by Dr. Cannon Purfvis. And she developed this trauma informed evidence-based approach specifically for children that really struck. And it's based on three main principles, connecting,

empowering, and correcting. And then working with that, we have strong connection in our faith-based work. We empower these kids and help them self-regulate. And correction is very important. And so how do we guide these children in a way that they can really see what is helpful for them rather than disruptive and really concerning in terms of how they can perform at school and at home. And so this work is done by Dr. Shoof. She's one of the few well-trained TBRI professionals in Wisconsin with her certification. And we have found this as an evidence-based practice

that has really helped us develop, again, stronger outcomes for our kids. It's important for us to never give up on a child either. All these children just have such an incredible amount of ability. They just need really good ways to guide them. And to do this work, we've seen them really respond to it. A good portion of them really respond very well to me.

Let's talk about one more program of yours. You've created the Community Counseling Care Partnership, which works with congregations to identify and serve people in the community who are having marital problems, loneliness issues, or other tough issues. Talk to us about that partnership and why churches are a good fit for the work you do. Yeah, and that's a real specialty of ours because we do want to align with churches. There's a strong study from Harvard too that shows that working with churches can actually enhance not only mental health outcomes, but family outcomes, medical outcomes. So we want to align with our churches in a way that really helps us develop stronger treatment perspectives and recovery.

And pastors look at us and they see us in a vocation that helps them understand their limitations from pastoral care and our abilities to work on a level of a strong mental health integration capability so that when they see marital conflicts and isolation and issues with family and issues with kids, they can actually refer in a way that's very supportive and not potentially divisive. And so our church partnerships have grown. We actually have clinics in churches and we've developed space and we've developed a clinical work for both child and adolescent and adults and actually group activity as well. And so that a church is seen as a place where people can come for healing and an orientation

to the gospel in a way that's very positive and rewarding, and also for when they need help and healing. And we continue to build on these levels of church partnerships where it's growing and more churches are asking us to do this type of work replicated as well. And it's just really rewarding to see how we can align with churches in an important recovery method. Also, we have what is called a member assistance program, which is an EAP-like service where if individuals can't be met in person, we can provide several masters level clinicians that are either a pastor or well-trained in theological backgrounds where

they can really work with these individuals and a member of the congregation or a student of the church and school or a called worker can actually get this type of specialty EAP service that's a fee for service that's funded by the church or other organizations. And that has been really helpful too, because we're aligning more. We have 800 contracts with churches and some schools where they're really developing this type of approach. And it's one of the few EAPs of this kind of that size that is really remarkable in our approach to developing a strong enhanced relationship

with the church on mental health initiative. On a personal level, there have to be days where you're wondering whether you're moving the needle or making progress. I mean, I've never worked in your field and probably wouldn't be very good at it. But I assume that progress isn't always linear, that with the people you're working with, there can be steps ahead and then a couple steps back, which has to be hard as a professional. which has to be hard as a professional.

Yeah, this is a tough field at times. It can really be a challenge to work with such families and kids with such problems, especially if you're going from session to session and you have such kids in higher levels of care like strong day treatment that just, you know, they're really at their worst and physically sometimes unmanageable when they first come in. So we have a lot of intervention work to do. But first and foremost, faith is our foundation. So trusting in God and leaning on His grace and living out our calling is so important to us and to me. And so even though we have our challenges, we're rooted in Christ. And we're developing hope and resilience through what God offers, you know, through the gospel. And it's just really rewarding to see how we can apply these principles. And then second, relationships are very important to me and to us. And with relationships, you can also

have richness in your life, families, friends, communities, they're all gifts from God and we are called to love and to serve in our own households or through our vocation. We can actually provide a deepening of relationships that can be meaningful. And it really is something that if you develop that strength of relationship, you could find a lot of rewards in that too. And then, finally, it's purpose. There is so much of what we do to really look at each individual with a sense of purpose. And God gives us those unique gifts in a way that they can see joy and meaning in their life. And the mental health field is one where there's sometimes at their weakest, we can actually bring out areas that

through hardships, they can find greater joy and understanding of how they can work through a struggle and really develop a better way of strengthening themselves and then building on resilience and that's deeply rewarding. So, all of this is something that is fulfilling to me. I'm a pastor's kid. And so, deep from my own roots, I really learned how important the gospel is for myself and then for my own family. And I feel that sense of purpose. And if we can continue to build on that and I can build on that, I really feel that I can live life well in service to a loving and a God full of grace.

That's a great segue to our last question. You've been in the behavioral health field for two and a half decades. In your view, what are the key ingredients to leading a fulfilling life? I think that the more that I work in this vocation and the more that I see people heal and use the power of the gospel with our tools, that really does drive me in my role and my location. And then learning from mental health principles and where we're at today in seeing these rewards, I can actually do a lot of work both in my location and in a way that works with my family and with my

network as well. So I really find that very, very rewarding. Mark Klum, thanks so much for your leadership. Thanks for your impact. You and your team are making a difference in our community. There are a lot of unsung heroes in our community and every community across the country, heroes that you don't hear much about, but you're making a difference. And that's what it's all about. So thanks so much for joining us. And thank you.

Thank you all at the Bradley Foundation and treat true honor and privilege to work with all of you. Thank you. And as always, thanks to all of you for joining us on this episode of Voices of Freedom. Join us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts for our next conversation on issues impacting our freedom and America's foundational principles. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. I'm Rick Graber and this is a Bradley Foundation podcast.