Voices of Freedom - Interview with Victor and Dawn Barnett

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

An Interview with Victor and Dawn Barnett, Leaders of Running Rebels It’s a magical sight when a once lifeless plant begins to blossom because of the right conditions. According to one of our guests on this episode of Voices of Freedom, working with young people from challenging circumstances is analogous to tending a garden. When someone is struggling or hopeless, it can be hard to see the possibilities ahead for them. Yet with nurturing, understanding and patience, change can take root that allows them to bloom. For four decades, Running Rebels has intervened in the lives of thousands of young people, helping them become thriving, engaged, contributing citizens. Victor and Dawn Barnett lead Running Rebels together. They share what youth need to thrive and why they’re optimistic about the next generation. Topics Discussed on this Episode: What led Victor and Dawn to dedicate their lives to working with young people How Running Rebels filled a void in the Milwaukee area The challenges kids face today versus in the 1980s and 90s The qualities that make someone a good mentor and how to find mentors Organizations across the country that mentor young people How to connect with kids who are tough to reach and how to deal with kids who fall back into destructive behaviors Running Rebels’ program to help kids succeed while in college The biggest misconception about the kids Running Rebels helps What gives Dawn and Victor hope for the future About Victor and Dawn Barnett: At the age of 19, Victor Barnett saw many of the young people of Milwaukee being pulled into the street life of gangs, crime, and violence. He used basketball as the tool to engage, mentor, and guide youth towards an alternative path that would ensure their future success. From this vision and action, Running Rebels Community Organization was born. Dawn Barnett’s career began over 20 years ago when she saw a boy playing with a basketball in front of her house. Impressed by his skills, she learned that he was a member of the Running Rebels basketball team. She soon met Victor and was inspired to become involved. Since that time, she has helped turn Running Rebels into an organization that now serves 2,500 youth annually in Milwaukee.

Hello and welcome to Voices of Freedom, a Bradley Foundation podcast. I'm Rick Graber, president and CEO of the Bradley Foundation. On the podcast, we'll explore issues that affect our freedoms with a focus on free enterprise, free speech, and educational freedom. So let's get started. The steady guidance of a trustworthy friend or family member can make all the difference in the trajectory of a young person's life. Yet those who live in challenging circumstances all too often have nowhere to turn, especially in times of need. Since 1980, Running Rebels Community

Organization here in Milwaukee has stepped in to fill that void by offering mentoring, community connection, and programs all the way through adulthood. Working with hundreds of young people annually, Running Rebels aims to stop violence in families and neighborhoods, prevent African-American boys and men from becoming incarcerated, and develop young people of character who are engaged, educated, and committed contributing citizens. With me to discuss how Running Rebels keeps youth engaged and on a promising path are Victor Barnett, the executive director and founder of Running Rebels, and his wife Dawn

Barnett, the co-executive director. Victor and Dawn, welcome. It is wonderful to have you with us. Thank you. Wonderful to be here. Thank you. Thanks so much. Victor, let's start with you. At the ripe old age of 19, a few weeks ago, you saw that a few of the younger

kids in your neighborhood were starting to go down the wrong path and you decided to do something about it. Talk to us about that. Talk about those early days and what motivated you to start mentoring when you were still just a teenager. Yeah, actually, I started running Rebels earlier than that, actually. I grew up in a small town in Mississippi, and I grew up watching TV and just seeing sometimes things not going well in society. And I remember being a kid and feeling like I wanted to help change the world was a little saying that I used to have.

My family relocated up north and I always had this inspiration to make a difference and, you know, help create change. I didn't know what that would be. And when I got in middle school, friends of mine were being taken away or leaving. And I was always wondering, where did they go? Found out later they were being incarcerated because of bad choices. So at that time, I realized what I wanted to do to make a difference and create change. So when I got 19 years old, I took in one young man in a neighborhood where I grew up and say that I was going to help him to be happy.

Found out that he wanted to get better at basketball. So I took him in and that first year I had 50 young people that I had come to the basketball courts with me rather than being involved in gang activity. So that went pretty well. And from there, the next year I had a hundred young people wanting to be involved with the running Rebels basketball team. And that relationship and that bond that I had with them was the beginning of the 44 years of running Rebels. You didn't even have your own basketball court.

No, we had a- It was fairly recently. Where did you, where did you play? Yeah, we had a, at the park, we had a big tree that was kind of, a joke was that was my office, so if it rained pretty hard, we had to slide up under the tree. So we really didn't have an office. We had each other to be honest with you. I had those young people and I became like their big brother and they

couldn't wait to be with me and I couldn't wait to be with them. And so for that year, we were together as much as we could be together. And it just kind of fired from there in a positive way. It was long before my time at Bradley, but as I understand it, your first contact with the Bradley Foundation was you had a pretty good team that made the playoffs and that you didn't have the resources for uniforms. Is that true story? Well, yeah, definitely.

It was even deeper. We had a pretty good team in Milwaukee and won an opportunity to go to Florida and play in a national tournament. And we did not have the funds to do it. And the Bradleys and other foundations kind of said, you know what, they knew of our work and they came together and supported us with the funds to be able to take young people to Florida. And it was just so amazing because some of those young people had never

been outside of their city. So to be able to experience something like that, I was something that really showed hope and vision to some of those young people. And that was the beginning of them realizing that there's more to life than just their block. Fantastic. Dawn, talk to us a little bit about your background and what led you to Victor and the running Rebels. It's a very interesting, interesting story.

Well, I'm a, I'm a daughter of a priest and a nun, so that's a story for another time, but I, I chief similar to Victor always since it's a young person knew I wanted to do something that was in service of the world. And here I was in my mid-20s, I had gone to El Verno, but I was in this space of kind of waiting for my life to begin. I had a neighbor who had a young son and his young son was in the middle of the street playing basketball, but he was dribbling the ball like I've never seen a young person dribble the ball before. And he was head to toe in a running Rebels uniform.

So I said to my neighbor, I said, who was running Rebels? And as soon, I don't tell this story to everybody, but as soon as he mentioned Victor's name, I knew that I was supposed to be involved with Running Rebels and I knew that I was supposed to be with Victor. So I asked him to introduce me because I'm interested in the work and having an impact in my community. And at that time Victor was training new mentors in Milwaukee. So he introduced me to Victor and the rest was history. And here you are. Here I am. At what point did the two of you realize that you were tapping into a need that just wasn't being met in the community and that you really could have an impact and move the needle?

community and that you really could have an impact and move the needle. For me, that relationship that I formed with those young people and being able to keep them away from gang activity, rather than that, they'd rather be with me and on the basketball court. I really realized that we were onto something to be able to have young people make that choice to be here rather than there. And at that time, 1980 gang activity was really pretty much getting out of control in our city. I just realized that to be able to get that many young people to want to be doing the right thing, we were making the right choices as an organization.

We just needed to continue and be consistent and figure out how to grow. Cause that first, it was just me for many years. Yeah. I remember when we got our first to work with young people through Milwaukee County, officially through Milwaukee County and our only job, our only job was to get them to do their community service. These were young people that for the first time

were involved in the juvenile justice system. And that was our job, just get them to do their community service. These were young people that for the first time were involved in the juvenile justice system and that was our job, just get them to do their community service and track it. And for us, it was much more than that. The young people became mentees, you know, we mentored them, they got their community service done, but they came became involved with the Running Rebels family and Milwaukee County was just, you know, kind of caught off guard. Well, here's this new organization that is not only able to fulfill everything in the contract but then going over and beyond to create these relationships with young people

who have been deemed as being hard to connect with. That's when I knew that we had something special because we already were able, like Victor said, to connect with young people in that prevention realm. You know, young people that wanted to come around us, they wanted to play basketball, or just wanted to be in that atmosphere. Now we are able to really create change with young people in the juvenile justice system. I knew. I knew we had something that was different.

That's really something government programs can't do. It takes people like you who have dedicated your lives to this, sort of one kid at a time I assume, and that's a special thing for sure. Our community's better as a result. Talk about, Victor, you're talking about the problems of the 90s and the gang situation. Compare a little bit the problems that kids were facing then as opposed to today. He's not every kid had a phone. Yeah. Acknowledge, I'm sure has changed some of this and in some ways made it more difficult.

Yeah. some ways made it more difficult. Yeah. I think the big thing for me is that back then a young person had the choices and to be involved in the negative gang and drug activities, you almost had to choose that you had to go over there or you had to go be around it, whereas now today is so much different that the negative things are all around our young people. I mean they could be a good young person, have good upbringing, but they are around that negativity so much. And then like with social media, it's like

you know the negative is almost right at their fingertips or right every day, every hour within their reach. So I think that is the biggest difference that you had to choose to go be around it. Whereas now today with social media, it's all around you. Young people have much more challenges to be able to stay free of that negativity now. Yeah, I agree. And now we are competing with technology.

And it really escalated after COVID. When young people got used to just being confined to a space with their technology and losing that that human interaction and then gradually that turned to them you know just losing interest to gradually that turned to them just losing interest to getting out and trying new things and exploring and putting that phone down. So even in our spaces, and I know schools have this challenge as well, but having to be conscious of telling young people, okay, now we're going to put our phones down. And it's almost like second nature. Every once in a while, they'll just pick it up.

And here's the thing. It's not just the young people. Adults have that really, really well. There's no question. As well. So it is a, it's a we, it's a we thing. Yes. But, but, but like Victor said, everything is in their face.

Like, like bullying doesn't just stop when, or when they leave school, you know, through social media, they have access to all these negative things 24-7. 24-7. It's around them and being exposed to things that at our age, we just didn't have that kind of exposure. Yes. You've both talked about the importance of relationships and I know that building relationships has always been at the core of what,

what you do at Running Rebels. Talk to us more about that. What makes a good mentor? How do you find mentors that'll be there for the long haul, especially when things get really tough, sometimes at odd hours of the day and morning. Elaborate on that. How do you find the right people? One of the advantages for us of being in the community so long, and our tagline is, you know, helping the community from within. That we have people that have fought through some of the same challenges,

our young people grew up in some of the same neighborhoods as much as possible. So having people that have experienced some of what our young people are going through, sometimes we call it the ups and downs of life, it makes it where you're able to connect more with the young people. So really that relationship is the answer because often adults want young people to just do what I say it do because I'm an adult. And our young people are going through so much these days that if they don't have a solid relationship with you, that doesn't sink in as much.

So from day one, it's been all about the relationship where I was able to connect with those young people and get them to even consider change or get them to think differently. So that relationship then and now we base all of our success on the relationship that the mentors are able to connect to our mentees. It takes a special it does take a special person and and I think we've we've been really fortunate to have people come to come to us just seemingly out of nowhere sometimes who really want to do this

work sometimes they're younger and and they want to do this work. Sometimes they're younger and they want to help their community. Sometimes it's after having different jobs and being in a completely different sector. And them saying, I'm just at a place in my life where I want to be of service to young people. But that relationship and the relationships, because for us it is a village. It's a village. We try to avoid one young person just having a relation. They don't just have a relationship with one mentor. It is where you have access to an entire village and network that is there to support you,

because in a village, you have different perspectives. The motherly and the fatherly, you have the aunts and uncles, people that are more like siblings, you have like the elders in the community and each of those relationships has a different perspective. Our Running Rebels community is similar to that, different lived experiences,

different ways of communicating with young people and at certain times, different styles resonate with young people. So for us, it's not about, I'm gonna match you with one person. It's about, we're going to plug you into this community and try to give you access to whatever it is that you need at the time that you need it.

And that might be different people at different times. And one thing that's been an advantage for us, at one time we had 15 staff that were kids in our program and they definitely knew what we call the rebel way of that relationship and connection. So if you got people that went through the program and then come back full circle, we call it and be able to help the next group of young people. I think we've been blessed with that opportunity as well. And one thing that we tell mentors that they have to not do is they have to not say, I've been where you've been.

I've lived where you've lived from, I've experienced what you've experienced. You may have had similar experiences, but you can never say that you walked in somebody's shoes. You can never say that you've experienced life through their eyes because you haven't. And being aware of that and understanding that there's so much that we don't know about each other's experiences just deepens our ability as mentors to connect with young people and with each other.

The challenges and issues that we face in Milwaukee are not unique. This happens all over the country. Are there running rebels organizations in other cities? Well, that was, that was a network of some sort of- That was a part of when, when I first started, I couldn't wait for one day. What we poured into young people to be able to do that when they move forward with their own lives. So to have a young person that may move to a different city and take the

principles that they learned through running Rebels with them is something that is a joy fulfilling for me now. Cause I talk every week to some young person, either in Atlanta, Texas, Houston, and we talk about those principles they learn and what they do now, either formally doing youth work or informally just in their neighborhood, some of the same things that they do. So it's a special feeling to know that it continues and it spreads throughout. Yeah.

And although there's not a running rebels per se elsewhere, You know, we've been really fortunate to be in networks where we were able to meet and spend time with and learn from and cry with, you know, people who were doing similar things. You know, we were involved for many, many years with the Violence Free Zone and Bob Woodson did that. He brought people together from all across the country who did in this work. And we were amazed to be in a space with other victors and other dawns and to be able to share these experiences and these heartaches and these challenges and these blessings. And so there's not a running rebels per se, but there are fantastic people all across the country. I mean, the tendency of many philanthropists is to say, grow this, scale this. And to your point, in some ways that's hard to do.

It takes people like the two of you. You can't just franchise running rebels and have an effective program someplace else. And I think that's just apparent. Talk a little bit about the kids that are really hard to reach, those that may have already been involved with the juvenile justice system that just have a sense of hopelessness about them, can't see a promising future. How do you reach them? I think it takes a lot of understanding.

It takes to kind of look at things to understand that what they're going through. It's often where we talk about that light at the end of the tunnel, they can't see it. And we have to find a way to help bring it closer so that they can have hope. I've had young people that tell me, why should I get my driver license? Because I won't be alive when I'm 21 years old.

If that's somebody's feelings, you have to get close to them to even get them to want more because they don't even think they're gonna be alive. So I think that understanding that sometimes what a young person is going through, it's awfully deep. There was a young person that did some things and I often try to tell people that I'm not justifying it,

but that young person at the age of three or four was raised and slept every night in a dog kennel, a dog house, right? So his upbringing and his feelings put him in a position that he just didn't understand some things. And until you can get them to understand and think differently, they think sometimes what they're doing is normal

and the right thing to do until you're able to connect and get them to see differently. They think sometimes what they're doing is normal and the right thing to do until you're able to connect and get them to see differently. So I think understanding is so important. Yeah, oftentimes mentors, adults just in general, get thrown off by what we perceive as an attitude from a young person, like a bad attitude. And it causes us to have all kinds of judgments about a young person. Oh, they're snippy or they're ungrateful or they're this or they're that. And to Victor's point, instead of understanding, they're a young person trying to navigate a very, very complex world and don't yet have the social skills, the ability to regulate their emotions in such a way to where they can connect with us at that level.

So if we instead, this is what mentors have to do. So we have to approach it differently. So we have to approach it with curiosity instead of how is this young person doing? I wonder what's going on underneath the surface. And understanding that all of that that we're getting above surface, whether it's the crazy looks or the or the eye rolls or all of that stuff, is just a mask. It's a mask for whatever complexities are going on underneath. And our job is to figure out how can we reach, you know,

reach really their their essence of who they are. And that's who we want to help. And all that other stuff, those are just distractions. Yes. I mean, life isn't perfect. It isn't linear. Certainly, you have situations where you or other mentors have spent lots of time with a particular child who's making progress and then takes a step back and really,

in a way, returns to the old ways, same destructive behaviors of the past. It's got to be hard, but how do you handle that? There's a couple of young people now that Dawn and I communicate with weekly. And some of those young people may be incarcerated for 20 years of their life. And all of the work that you pour into them, I used to feel really bad. And I used to say to myself,

did I do everything I could do? Because when you lose somebody, you're doubting yourself to say, man, I didn't do. But there's a young person that's incarcerated for many years. And we talked to him and he said, you did everything you could do. You tried everything.

It was on me that I didn't get it. Now he's sitting in incarcerated for 20 years and he said that he understands. So I think for me, the disappointments are going to come and what helps you get through it is knowing that there are some other young people that need you and that you can pour into them and being able to help them maneuver through life is very helpful. But yeah, sometimes it's very disappointing when you lose a young person, but that's a part of the mentoring it is. when you lose a young person, but that's a part of the mentoring. It is. Yeah, the theory of change is the theory of change, right? We can't change young people. In order for somebody to experience change, they have to be in a place where they want to,

and they're ready to do that. For me, I understand that. So when I'm planting those seeds, I'm not expecting an immediate return. And I'll tell them, you know, I'll say right now, what I'm about to say may not resonate with you, your 17-year-old self that's sitting in front of me. So right now, I want to talk to the 25-year-old version of you. I want to say something that you're going to remember later. So for me, it's similar to a garden. There's times in my garden where I'm looking at a plant and I'm like, it's dead. There's nothing

that's going to come out of it. And then all of a sudden the conditions become just right and all of a sudden there's growth, new growth that comes in. And then all of a sudden, you know, the death just went away and it just blossoms into something different. Young people are no different than that. I think when the time is right, when they're ready and they're in that place in their journey, those seeds that we've planted, those seeds that their mentors and other people have planted have a way of taking root and growing and blossoming in ways that we can't see right now. But if we have hope and faith that that is going to happen, that's what helps me is in knowing that there's gonna be a 25-year-old version of you,

a 30-year-old version of you. And I wanna see how those seeds manifest in you. Many of the kids you serve are college-bound, which is great. It's one thing for a teenager to get into college, but it's hard to succeed once you're actually there. Talk to us a little bit about the challenges that the kids that you work with often face once they get to college and how Running Rebels helps them overcome some of those challenges.

Yeah, I remember myself being in college and I actually lost my father when I was a freshman in college. And I remember how difficult that was to be able to continue on, to have the right attitude, to have the right feelings of success to come. And it's so important now we do the scholarship for young people, but it's way deeper than that. That case management, that mentor that follows you to college, be able to communicate with you, sending care packages and letting you know that we are here for you. When you come back to Milwaukee, come home and visit us.

But I just think that's so important because I remember college days and how I needed shoulders to lean on often. And we just wanna make sure that we continue to do that for our young people because if you pull back on the work, you pour into somebody too soon, it really can almost be detrimental because they not at the point

where they need to be by themselves. And sometimes when people go away to college, everybody think, well, that's it, no more work needed. That's definitely not the case. So right now we have, what is it about? Maybe about five young people who are in college that are part of our scholarship program that are coming on a regular basis.

Sometimes just to be in the space. We have some going to MATC, some going to UWM, some out of state. For us, it's how can we support young people past high school regardless of what decision they make. And some want to go to college, some want to enter the workforce, some want to take up a trade or get some certifications. And we want them to know whatever it is, we want to be able to support them. Some are entrepreneurs, start their own businesses and become really successful. So we know that everybody's path, everybody's journey is different and we're there for it.

You know, whatever it is and however we can support. What's the biggest misperception about kids in New York? I think the one for me is that all young people are terrible. I've had older people say that and actually not understand that there are more young people doing good than the ones that's doing bad. But if all you hear is the young people making bad choices, young people stealing and all that, you get to a point that you think, oh wow, that's all young people. Because you don't hear the positive stories. You don't hear the this young person fought through all of that adversity and now they're on track to be successful. So some of the work that we do is so rewarding when we

able to tell those stories and help change the narrative of how people feel. But all young people are not terrible. All young people are not making those terrible choices. Some are, and that work we put into them is that effort. And they deserve that effort to try to change them. But it's a whole bunch of young people doing some great things, and they just need to have those stories told as well.

Yeah, I think we hear all kinds of judgments about young people, unfocused, you know, uncaring, just all kinds of things. And yeah, they do have some challenges, but boy, if people could only be around and see the talent and the drive in some of these young people just to be restored and rejuvenated within themselves to know that, hey, our future is not as dark as it seems. You hear about the bad acts of a few bad actors. That's what you hear when it comes to the news. But let me tell you, for every bad actor that you hear about, there are thousands of young people

that are doing the right thing and are amazing. Great. Nice question. You've both been doing this work for decades. It's tough work. It just is. What keeps you coming to work every day and what gives you hope for the future? I think for me it's the feelings of that there are some that continue to need us. There will be some that it doesn't sink in the right way, but just that idea of, you know, we had a couple of young people that their grades were terrible two or three weeks ago. And now to see the progress reports where they're turning around and getting A's and B's and can't wait to show you and, and see that they dealt with some of that adversity.

That's what does it for me. Cause I often look at it like often when my light is starting to dim and get lower and lower, something usually happened with a young person that says, this is why I do this work, and now I'm ready to go for another two or three years. For me, believe it or not, it doesn't feel like I'm getting up and going to work. It really doesn't.

And being able to have, just really enjoy being with young people and without expectation, without the need to see things happen perfectly, without feeling like I'm not doing everything that I can do. When I can come in every day and just be present to whatever is happening in the moment, whatever I can do for somebody who needs me in this space and in this time. That's what keeps me going, is just being present to all of it and knowing that down the line, if we're all showing up in that way for other people,

wow, that gives me hope for the future. Can you imagine what this world looks like or will look like if we can all do that? Yes. Victor and Dawn Burnett, thanks so much for spending some time with us today and thanks for your work. You're your unsung heroes in this community. We don't read about you a whole lot, we don't see you on TV a whole lot, but you're making a massive difference in the city of

Milwaukee and surrounding areas and we truly do appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thank you for all your support. Thank you. And as always, thanks to all of you for joining us on this episode of Voices of Freedom. Join us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts for our next conversation on issues impacting our freedom and America's foundational principles. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. on issues impacting our freedom and America's foundational principles. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. I'm Rick Graber, and this is a Bradley Foundation podcast. you